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Episode 355: Neil Hodge, 4evertheflip

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·24m 31s·analyzed·Feb 15, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Neil Hodge discusses Indisc tournament experience and Forever the Flip hoodie brand's unexpected success.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Neil Hodge from British Columbia about his recent experience at Indisc tournament and his successful clothing brand Forever the Flip. Neil discusses attending his first Indisc event, volunteering as staff, achieving a top-40 score, and the evolution of his hoodie business from pinball-focused sponsorship to a broader lifestyle brand that unexpectedly attracted skaters, graffiti artists, and even an Olympic athlete. The conversation covers Forever the Flip's explosive growth, its sponsorship of the Pinball Profile Played in America Tour, and Neil's design philosophy.

Key Claims

  • 60+ of the top 100 players in the world competed at Indisc

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis stating tournament facts during discussion of Indisc attendance

  • Indisc is held in Riverside, California and will return next January

    high confidence · Jeff directly referencing upcoming tournament location and timing

  • Forever the Flip has approximately 150 designs online with 50 more not yet posted

    high confidence · Neil Hodge directly answering question about number of designs available

  • InDisc had over 15,000 viewers on Twitch during the event

    high confidence · Jeff referencing streaming audience size when discussing finals broadcast

  • Forever the Flip hoodies are worn by graffiti artists, skaters, snowboarders without pinball connection

    high confidence · Neil discussing unexpected market expansion: '100 graffiti artists who follow my Instagram... I don't think any of them play pinball'

Notable Quotes

  • “The hyper elite extreme like super goober pinball... the competitive nature of it and then the high performance the mental kind of space... it just blows my mind”

    Neil Hodge @ early segment — Captures Neil's awe at competitive pinball level and what drew him to Indisc

  • “Where is this coming from? And it ended up to be a great collaboration. And I have, I don't know, maybe 10 of her hoodies online. An American Olympian contacted me. She's a poet. She's an author. She's a singer. She's an Olympian. She's a national champion. And she's a high jumper”

    Neil Hodge @ mid-segment — Example of unexpected brand reach and collaborations emerging from Forever the Flip

  • “It's cyber, goth, counterculture, gauche couture. I'm like, what is that? Where's the pinball in that? I couldn't quite land it in the right place.”

    Neil Hodge @ middle section — Illustrates the challenge of balancing aesthetic design with pinball identity

  • “You're so immersed in the game that the game is you and you're the game. And that's the kind of visual representation they wanted off a hoodie for their league.”

    Neil Hodge @ later segment — Reveals design philosophy for NPL league collaboration and deeper artistic intent

  • “No one's making you do it. And it's totally for the love and it's well won and very much appreciated.”

    Neil Hodge @ tour discussion — Recognition of Jeff's effort with Pinball Profile Played in America Tour

  • “I'm like, okay, we're just having fun here. You know, let's see how well I can do and go from there. But any kind of victory or any good score or anything like that was just gravy anyway.”

    Jeff Teolis @ sticker peeling discussion — Jeff's perspective on competing at Indisc finals with streaming audience

  • “51 people there. It was sold out quickly. And I had a waiting list of 33.”

    Jeff Teolis @ tour logistics segment — Indicates strong demand for Pinball Profile Played in America Tour events

Entities

Neil HodgepersonForever the FlipproductIndisceventJeff TeolispersonPinball ProfileorganizationPinball Profile Played in America Tourevent

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Neil Hodge's active participation at Indisc through volunteering (5+ shifts) and photography documentation; demonstrates community investment beyond competitive play

    high · Neil describing volunteering 'maybe five shifts' and noting 'you're right in the thick of things' when working tournament staff

  • ?

    community_signal: Indisc InDisc broadcast reached over 15,000 concurrent Twitch viewers with showmanship elements (sticker peeling, crowd engagement) during finals

    high · Jeff: 'we're streaming to over 15,000 people, the biggest audience of live pinball that's ever been done, certainly for competition'

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong recognition and appreciation for community figures: Jeff Teolis organizing tour despite logistical challenges, Neil sponsoring tour prizes, volunteers supporting tournament operations

    high · Neil thanking Jeff for reunion effort and Jeff thanking Neil for sponsorship support; mutual recognition of volunteer and organizer contributions

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Indisc tournament showcases consistency-over-peak-scores strategy; Zach Sharp made playoffs with no score higher than 35th place through consistent mid-range performances across all games

    high · Jeff: 'Zach Sharp... got into the playoffs... all kind of good games or a little above average, but nothing great, no GC. It's tough to do with all that pressure'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Profile Played in America Tour showing strong ticket demand with sold-out events and waiting lists (51 attendees with 33 waiting list at Riverside)

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.074

0:00
it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teels you can find everything on pinballprofile.com all your subscriptions downloads you can find us on facebook or on Twitter and Instagram at pinball profile. You can also show your support on Patreon slash pinball profile. That would be greatly appreciated. And you can email pinball profile at gmail.com. Let's go to BC right now. This man just got back from Indisc, his first time there. He had a good time. I'm sure we'll talk about that. And the other little thing he's been doing over the last year and a bit, it's called Forever the Flip. It's great clothing. We're talking about Neil Hodge. Hello, Neil. How are you? Hey, Jeff. Fine, thank you. Thank you for having me on. It's a great pleasure. Hey, it's good to talk to you. It was good to see you just a few weeks ago at Indisc. That was your first time there. I know you took some amazing photos and you got to meet a lot of nice people. First of all, your experience at Indisc, what did you think of that wonderful event? Oh, I'm an easy sell and thanks for letting me talk more about pinball. the hyper elite extreme like super goober pinball i'm i'm such a fan of the competitive nature of it and then the high performance the mental kind of space and take that it needs to be it just just blows my mind and i couldn't take enough of it in so obviously i sit back and i take some pictures to document a little bit of what's going on to tell the story of the people who they are but the amount of players that have the skills like all the skills is it's awestruck well you definitely saw it on display there at indisc i think 60 plus of the top 100 players in the world were at that event and uh it's amazing to see the people that didn't make the finals or didn't even make the playoffs just the the caliber was unreal and uh the variety too I mean, you saw young and old. You saw some great men and women play. It's a great variety. And now, as far as playing yourself, you took a lot of pictures. You even showed up, too, for the pinball profile, played in the America Tour. We'll talk about that in a little bit. But what about yourself? What about playing, like getting involved? The one thing I kind of stepped up, like got over my own personal insecurities of playing, of scoring. And, you know, the first time you score, you're like, oh, for sure I'm screwing this up. and someone's going to just download on me. But I volunteered maybe five shifts, and then you're like right in the thick of things, right? You're seeing it, you're feeling it, you're hearing it. And it's a great way to give back, to put in. And certainly I'm not anywhere in contention. I had a couple games that helped define your experience there for sure. Like had maybe one top 40 score, and that's enough. You know, you make one Lazarus save, and you're like, oh, that's heaven. and not quite like getting to a final like you. That was outstanding. A little bit of luck helps. Some skill, but some luck. Some people helping you along the way. But that's the whole thing about Indisc, is with that card format, if you're playing the classics, you have to have four consistent games. You can't have a bleeder, as they call it. You can't have one that's not going to show up on your scorecard, and then you need five for the main event. Very, very difficult. I'm not sure the numbers for the women. I think it was four, and also for the high stakes. But again, all tough challenges. But a real, you know, I was talking with Marty Robbins. He's my partner on Final Round. We do on the Pinball Network. And he was worried I was discouraging people saying it's tough at InDisc. It is tough at InDisc. It doesn't mean it's impossible. And anybody can do well. I mean, I think Zach Sharp, he got into the playoffs, and I don't think he had a score higher than 35th out of all the people that played, but he was consistent. They were all kind of good games or a little above average, but nothing great, no GC. It's tough to do with all that pressure and the way the games are set up. I mean, you saw that, didn't you, Neil?
Keith Elwin
person
Kaylee Georgeperson
Victoria Pinball Leagueorganization
Nippon Pinball Leagueorganization
Kerry Wingperson
Daniel Peckperson
Beck Gallagher (Becky)person
Johnnyperson
Col McAlpineperson
Andy Bagwellperson
Dan Bitterlickperson
Riverside Game Laborganization
Genex Wongperson
Zach Sharpperson

high · Jeff: '51 people there. It was sold out quickly. And I had a waiting list of 33'

  • $

    market_signal: Forever the Flip brand experienced unexpected cross-market success with graffiti artists, skaters, snowboarders, and Olympic athletes - indicating broader lifestyle/art market appeal beyond pinball community

    high · Neil: 'I have 100 graffiti artists who follow my Instagram. I don't know any of them. I don't think any of them play pinball' and Olympic athlete collaboration

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growth and successful expansion of Forever the Flip from pinball-exclusive sponsorship to mainstream lifestyle brand, requiring design philosophy recalibration

    high · Neil discussing whether to 'make it more pinball or less pinball' and finding balance with 150+ designs reflecting diverse artistic influences (Van Gogh, Picasso, Warhol)

    • 4:22
    The players that have the skills, like the skills to pay the bills, that they're attacking the game or they're clinical. Like, it was brought up how Kaylee George, he's on it. He's not waiting. He's not feeling. He's not flowing. He's, like, attacking this game. Clinical. So many different styles. You had mentioned in your top ten list Walt Wood, and I got him in one of my groups for the flip on Sunday, the match play strikes. And just to play with a personality or to see somebody have that kind of style up close. Just remarkable. Certainly a personality to grow from or to learn from, just to be cool, to be fun, and yeah, just always having a point of enjoyment and fulfillment, regardless of the level of pressure. We can hear the excitement in your voice, and that's kind of the experience of InDisc for those that were there, and definitely check it out next January when it comes back to Riverside, California. So I was glad you were there. You got a lot of great photos and that's kind of a big hobby for you too. I mean, we're going to get to your really big hobby, but taking photos is so important. We love what Genex Wong does with orange photography. He was the lead photographer there at Indus, but a lot of people like yourself taking all kinds of photos and capturing these great memories and action shots, if you will. It's a nice time capsule, I'll tell you that. Oh yeah, and for sure there's some of you in there. I did post on my Instagram to try and tell the story of the people who make up this hobby and it is so niche right It global but it still so small well i guess compared to certainly video games it would be small although that weekend being on the front page of twitch i mean now with over a million views a lot of people got to see pinball and hopefully we get some new blood into pinball i know that's something that's important to you because uh you love supporting the kids in pinball and uh and the women in pinball two areas where We want to see more growth. And you've been doing that with your little company. That's not so little anymore. Forever the Flip. If you see these wonderful hoodies, and please go to my Facebook page and Instagram and pinballprofile.com. I'm going to post a bunch of them. But these hoodies have taken off. You see them everywhere, Neil. Yeah, it's a good vibe. It's a good vibe for sure. You know, same, humble beginnings and just wanting to put back into pinball or to have some style or fun, right? It's a win-win if you can have fun. And early on, I found, and kind of I looked to the top of the rankings when I first got involved with the Victoria Pinball League. Shout out. Yeah, Dan Bitterlick and crew, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Ashley, Kerry, I know them all. Yeah, yeah. Well, Dan, there was no pinball before Dan. We were like, 2001, like half of us could count and half of us could read, but not everybody could do one thing. and he kind of came in and just blew it up for us, which is great. I thought about trying to find a way to sponsor players or, you know, high-performance pinball athletes and creating a hoodie for them from, like, an Icon hoodie. And early on, people like Kerry Wing really helped me out and Daniel Peck, and then we did a Sarah Little Canadian piece and even Danny Rocket in Australia. just different people came on and said, yeah, you know, throw me some style and try to find a way to kick back to either putting the sponsorship back into merch for them or seeing if we could sponsor them. Hi, can we pay for a card? Right. Could we help you keep playing? How can we make it easy all around? And there was some some early success for sure. And then some kind of missed success where it kind of overshot the pinball market. Well, I remember you telling me that the idea was pinball, but when you were looking at some of the sales and where they came from, there was a huge skater community that were gobbling up these wonderful different hoodies and designs. Without trying, skaters, snowboarders, graffiti artists. I have 100 graffiti artists who follow my Instagram. I don't know any of them. I don't think any of them play pinball. And it just kind of outreached or outstepped the kind of pinball. So I kept trying to pull it back, and I was like, well, should I make it more pinball or less pinball? Or I didn't know where it could land, but I kept kind of plugging away with trying to make something accessible for everybody. And it's funny, Jeff, I joined this early chat group where you could post your stuff and get feedback. And, you know, I would get, oh, the hoodie looks good. The colors are good, but it's sophisticated. But, you know, it's kind of demented, right? I would get like, it's cyber, goth, counterculture, gauche couture. I'm like, what is that?
    9:26
    Where's the pinball in that? I couldn't quite land it in the right place. And then this is another strange offshoot where an American Olympian contacted me. She's a poet. She's an author. She's a singer. She's an Olympian. She's a national champion. And she's a high jumper of all things. And she tripped on the Instagram that says forever the flip, hence flipping, right? And I'm like, where is this coming from? And it ended up to be a great collaboration. And I have, I don't know, maybe 10 of her hoodies online. So I realized that kind of holding back or outstepping the pinball vibe could still leave me with some room to design around it and still kind of coddle it back together. It's amazing what you set out to do and what it's become forever the flip. Like you mentioned, the athletes, the Olympians, the skaters, the graffiti artists. You're like the Banksy of pinball hoodies, if you really want to talk about it.
    10:29
    Yeah, Banksy, obviously a huge influence. We did like some of the themed hoodies, you know, were motivated or stylized around some Van Gogh or Picasso or Andy Warhol, obviously. And then different forms and modes of entertainment and music, movies, just popular art, right, that kind of links into, like it always comes up in pinball, you can't escape your nostalgia. It's true. Right? That's one of the things I like about pinball is the Americana of the, you know, some of the older games and some of the, I think you lose it a little bit with the themed games. I mean, it's great pop art and all that kind of good stuff, But these original designs that you saw in some of the older games that really weren't themed is like just absolute creations. And I find them fascinating and crazy, sometimes really out there art. I think Quicksilver would be one that would come to mind. Oh, melt my heart. But Silver Ball Mania, like I love looking at that game. I like playing it too. But just some of these incredible art packages of yesteryear. And we're still seeing it obviously with today. But, I mean, there's just such a wide range that it's just all eye candy when it comes to pinball. Yeah, and the pinball marketplace, they're not left out and being exposed to all kinds of art, right? All kinds of styles and looks and feels. And even if you're not, you know, super artistic, you're getting it all the time when you're playing. You're seeing it. I had a chance to design for NPL, the Nippon Pinball League. And it came out of something that was like a college or a university club. And every season they would create a new club and do something new right And they wanted to do pinball And same thing I had kind of got over on Forever the Flip that someone was like hey what is your flipping buddy And I'm like, hi there. And I got a chance to collaborate and co-create a logo and design for their league. And there's huge, for me, huge language barrier. But to somehow get a little bit more into the Japanese marketplace and design something specific. And when you get a chance to design, you're always like, wow, the collaboration is, is it me giving up part of my vibe or is it me blossoming into co-creating something more? And I was lucky that I took it because it really showed me how. And, you know, if you look around to your standard kind of pinball look, it's like, okay, bang, give me a wizard. Wizard mode. Give me some pinballs. Yes. But there were so, and maybe it's a cultural or an age and stage thing, that they wanted something that showed who they were, what they did, and how can I create visually an image that shows the game becoming you. So much a reference on, please suggest how the game becomes you. And I really struggled with it. But it's something that helps you grow. And it wasn't until I was kind of deep into F-14, when you're playing, you're playing, you're playing, you're playing. And then I look down and it's just stopped. The game stopped. I'm like, you know, you have that moment where the flippers die or the lights go out. And you're so immersed in the game that you don't realize you've tilted.
    13:55
    It's because the game's over. We've all been there. At that point where you're so immersed that the game is you and you're the game. and that's the kind of visual representation they wanted off a hoodie for their league. I was like, oh, really?
    14:11
    And even how they think sometimes about their league wanting to compete against other leagues, could they create a hoodie that created a visual distortion to make someone dizzy when they were looking at it?
    14:25
    Is that even allowed? A little mind trick. I like it. I can see how leagues are interested in the Forever the Flip hoodies. I definitely can see how individuals are gobbling this up. And I see it firsthand all the time because I reached out to you, Neil, and without blinking an eye, quickly saying yes, you became a huge sponsor and really a fan favorite aspect of the Pinball Profile Played in America Tour. So I can't thank you enough for that. Oh, super welcome. For those that don't know, when you come to one of my events, We play a pinball tournament, and all prizes are given away at random. And that's something that's a little exciting. We've got a trophy for the winner, and you get your Whopper points and all that kind of good stuff. But anybody can win anything. And the Forever the Flip hoodie that you have been so gracious to donate has been wonderful. And people get to go on your website, forevertheflip.com, and pick out the hoodie that they want, the size they want, and you've shipped it to them. First of all, thank you. And it's part of what makes the tour so great. Oh, you're very welcome. It's an honour to be involved. And same back at you, Jeff. I don't know anybody else out there putting themselves out there like, let's reunite the community. Let's get out after lockdown, do a tour, see the people, share the love. Like, thank you to you. Like, what you do, no one's making you do it. And it's totally for the love and it's well won and very much appreciated. So thanks from the peeps on our end. Thanks for saying that. I'll let you in on a little secret. It's all for selfish reasons. I like playing pinball. I like seeing people. So I'm doing it for me. Yeah, you get to play more. Yeah, everyone gets to see the benefit. Well, the funny thing about the last tournament, and it was the one you were at, we played at the Riverside Game Lab, and that just happened to be the day, even though I had a 6.40 a.m. flight to get to California by noon, lots of time to get there for the six o'clock pinball profile played in america tour event at the game lab my flight was grounded as so many were with the faa grounding that day mine was delayed by eight and a half hours and if it wasn't for col mccalpine and andy bagwell running the tournament which i'd already had set up in match play and all the players i mean they took the attendance that's the good thing is you know people pay in advance so i can get the shirts out from outlaw pinball and prizes were already shipped there and i brought whatever i had with me, you got to see it and you saw the excitement. And in fact, you were even so impressed that you said, let's give a good spirit award. And we gave another hoodie away. Yeah, spirit of the game award. And that went to Beck Gallagher too. Becky, we know from Hup Challenge, and she was thrilled. I've seen her post pictures of the hoodie. So thank you again for that, Neil. Yeah, that was a good win for Beck, for sure. She was so happy. and well the tournament was in good hands obviously and I was milling about with some of my VPLers there they got into the uh into the tournament and yeah they thought the scuttlebutt is oh Jeff's not here oh yeah he got got swiped got swiped so everyone's playing on and all of a sudden just kind of you know the news cuts across across the uh across the arcade Jeff's here and His hair looks great.
    17:40
    Yeah, I might be growing it just a little bit. Not the super buzzy buzz cut. Somewhere in between. Well, I mean, it wasn't exactly a subtle entrance. I came in with a blow horn. I think I had my little megaphone. I'm like, who's playing pinball without me? It was fun. It was all good. 51 people there. It was sold out quickly. And I had a waiting list of 33. so when you see these go up like the one in Colorado that's coming up on February 25th at Lions Classic Pinball and I've got a few more I've got one coming up in the game terminal in Nashville, Tennessee that coming up in March about to be posted by the time this episode probably airs same with Bang Back Pinball Lounge in Columbia South Carolina Good to see Fred Richardson and crew there And then the final one we got coming up is I can tell you the date right now That one I do know. It's April 8th at Portal Pinball just north of Atlanta in Georgia. So that's going to be a lot of fun going to see Brian Broyle's place.
    18:41
    But again, the hoodies are just so well received. I mean, I bring three samples so people can see and kind of have an idea of sizes. Then they go to the QR code and check out the website. They're like, holy cow, look at all these. It's amazing. How many different ones are there? It's a bit of a problem at this point, isn't it? There's probably 150 online. I probably have 50 not posted. The lockdown is really responsible for that.
    19:08
    I was trapped in my own mind for a little bit too long, but there was an outlet. There it is. Yeah. There's one other thing I want to let you know, or if you've got a second for me to share with you. And this is like Jeff's stuff that put me through a time warp, just did something. Either pinball or you just blended my brain for a little bit. And I was trying to break it down to myself, thinking, how is this possible? And it might come back to Burlington or, you know, playing at Burlington Bowl or the Roller Gardens used to have pinball back in the day. So for those that don't know, I live in a town called Burlington, Ontario. That's where Neil's from. Homeschool. Yeah, I've only lived here for 13 years maybe, knowing nobody when my wife and I moved here. But we have a lot of common friends. But anyway, that's what we were talking about when you mentioned Burlington. Yeah, go ahead. So it's the mid-'70s, and I'm 10 or 12 or something like that. And I've been drafted out one day to go to a baseball game. Essentially, my uncle takes me and gets me to sit in the crowded bleachers to watch a game. And the team that's come down from the Playboy Club that's in Buffalo at the time, that's a 1970s thing, to play against the firefighters. And my uncle gets drafted to be first base coach for the Playboy Club, which he's just kind of a designated guy because they're down somebody. So the first hit goes and Bunny makes it to first, goes to high five my uncle, totally fails. And he doesn't know what to do. He's just like standing there. And the crowd kind of starts jeering and he kind of looks over and he doesn't really understand. And they're all like, give high five, high five. Like, don't you get it? And so the bunny, she like senses that he's missed the situation. He hasn't read the script. And she says, come over here. And she jumps up, high-fives him. And he's like, oh, okay, high-five. We'll catch you, catch you. And everyone cheers. Yay, way to go, way to go. But he had missed the situation, but she had the timing to see what it took to be in the moment. And this takes me to in-disc, classics to final, and you're swapping stickers live. You're in the moment. People have kind of missed the situation, and you just kind of peel back and give the hand. Like, hey, guys, do you remember turning and kind of giving everybody the high five? Well, what happened was we were playing Stars, and I did it twice, but on ball two. I lit all five stars. I'm like, hey, that's a big deal, because I heard somebody clap in the background. I thought, all right, let's get a little more. Like, hey, I'm just pumping the crowd. Also realizing that we're streaming to over 15,000 people, the biggest audience of live pinball that's ever been done, certainly for competition, but anything on Twitch. So, you know, let's get a little fanfare here. And they're not too far away from the microphones from the commentators, so a little bit of background noise and hype and, yeah, a little bit of showmanship and stuff. Not showing up my opponents by any means, but just like showing that there's excitement to this sport. And Johnny was doing it, and it was fun. Yeah, you're in the moment. And to be able to read the moment is part of your showbiz acumen, right? your style and your grace for being present in the moment and being able to take it to the next moment. Well, thanks, Neil. It was such a big deal. I mean, I knew that was going to be a video that was going to be special. It didn't hurt that Keith Elwin, who won the Classics 2, dominated. So it wasn't like the pressure was really, really on so I could kind of relax a little bit. I'm like, okay, we're just having fun here. You know, let's see how well I can do and go from there. But any kind of victory or any good score or anything like that was just gravy anyway. So I thought, ah, we're playing stars. I might as well go for the stars. I'll do the hard thing, or at least try to do it. And that was the fun part. Yeah, and you guys peeling the stickers. Like, classic.
    23:04
    Johnny, Monica, listen, going into the finals, I knew, okay, we've got a lot of people here. So I plastered my awesome Donna Summer shirt with all these pinball profile stickers. I put on a UK Open sticker and a lot of fun things. And then going into ball three, Johnny peeled his off, and then he took mine off. And I went, okay, that's fine. I've got one in my back pocket. Pop it back on. So giggle, giggle. That's what that was about. But, again, I saw a lot at InDisc. I see it everywhere I go, forever the flip hoodies. And I can't thank you enough for supporting the Pinball Profile Played in America Tour. It means a lot to me personally, and I know it does to the winners of those prizes. So, Neil, it's good to find out how this all came about, and it's a bigger success than I even imagined. So, again, go to foreveroftheflip.com, and I can't thank you enough for everything you do and for being on the program. Yeah, thanks for sharing, Jeff. Thanks so much. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Facebook as well. We're even on Patreon. If you'd like to show your support, that would mean the world to me. And, of course, you can email pinballprofile at gmail.com.
    24:15
    I'm Jeff Teelhus.