What's really going on with John Wick

Don's Pinball Podcast (patreon feed)·podcast_episode·36m 54s·analyzed·May 28, 2024

Analysis

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TL;DR

Stern Pinball is licensing wrong themes and pricing too high for aging core demographic.

Summary

Don, operator of Star Trek Louis Escape, delivers a critical analysis of Stern Pinball's recent licensing and pricing strategy, arguing they are targeting the wrong demographics and themes. He contends that Stern's core buyers are 45-60 year old home collectors, not younger casual players, and that recent licenses like Venom, John Wick, Rush, and Foo Fighters alienate this core audience while overpricing machines at $13,000+. He praises Jersey Jack Pinball's value proposition on Elton John and suggests Stern should either lower prices or focus on classic IP (Goonies, Back to the Future, Die Hard, Van Halen) with superior artwork to drive sales.

Key Claims

80% or more of Stern's business is home buyers with average age 53
medium confidence · Don speaking about Stern's customer base and market composition
Foo Fighters has depreciated by ~$3,000 from original purchase price
medium confidence · Don referencing his own Foo Fighters machine and secondary market value
Venom Limited Edition originally priced at $113,000 has poor market reception
medium confidence · Don citing Venom as primary example of failed licensing strategy
Stern has a new internal policy against putting guns on playfields for Dave & Buster compatibility
low confidence · Don's speculation about John Wick lack of gun artwork; states 'I think I'm 100% correct on that'
Jersey Jack Pinball's Limited Edition ($12,000) offers better value than Stern's equivalent ($13,000+) due to features, topper, and artwork
medium confidence · Don comparing Elton John JJP vs Stern machines feature-for-feature
Stern AC/DC and Metallica sold significantly higher quantities than Rush
low confidence · Don speculation: 'you look at Rush you go we only sold this many it's not nowhere near'
Casual fans of Rush do not exist; only Rush fans like Rush (unlike Guns N' Roses with mainstream crossover appeal)
low confidence · Don's opinion on fan demographics and streaming/merchandise visibility
Foo Fighters merchandise is not sold at retail chains like Spencer, Walmart, Target compared to AC/DC and Metallica
medium confidence · Don's retail observation of merchandise availability
The Lionsgate John Wick license did not require removal of guns from artwork; this was Stern's internal policy decision
low confidence · Don's speculation and disbelief: 'I don't believe even for two seconds that the licenser told you no guns'

Notable Quotes

“the prices have been jacked up so high that they are literally pricing out the very people that matter to them the most which is the guys that are about 45 to 60”
Don @ opening section — Core thesis of the entire video—Stern is alienating its primary demographic through aggressive pricing
“you don't need to be growing pinball you need to be making pinballs for the people who want to pay 12 or $133,000 for them”
Don @ middle section — Direct critique of Stern's stated growth strategy; argues focus should be on existing buyers not expansion
“the only thing that matters is the theme for $113,000 the only thing that matters is that you nail the artwork”
Don @ later section — Emphasizes that at premium price points, IP selection and visual presentation outweigh mechanical innovation
“I bought Elton John because nobody else in town bought Elton John and I was trying to get people to come here”
Don @ mid-section discussing Elton John — Transparent admission of operator motivation for premium title; shows commercial venue use case differs from home collector
“Stern what is pissing everybody off about your company is that you came out with Elvira's House of Horrors you probably didn't think it was going to do fantastic...then you came out with a 40th”
Don @ Elvira discussion — Illustrates how Stern's multiple SKU strategy destroys collector confidence and secondary market value
“why would you license John Wick if you don't want guns on the machine this makes no sense”
Don @ John Wick critique section — Core criticism of John Wick release; thematic mismatch between licensed IP and design constraints
“if you did The Goonies it's instantaneous seller you want to fill up your factory making pinball machines”
Don @ theme recommendations section — Suggests classic 80s IP would solve production capacity and sales volume issues simultaneously

Entities

DonpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinballcompany Gary Sternperson John Wickgame Foo Fightersgame

Signals

?
product_strategy: Stern's aggressive MSRP strategy ($13,000-$15,000+) is alienating core home buyer demographic (age 45-60) who represent 80%+ of revenue; secondary market depreciation (Foo Fighters: -$3,000) signals price resistance
high · Don's repeated emphasis on $113,000-$133,000 pricing being unaffordable for target demographic; specific depreciation examples with Foo Fighters and multiple Elvira SKU failures
?
product_concern: John Wick licensed but designed without gun imagery despite guns being central to IP; appears to be internal Stern policy decision rather than licensor requirement
medium · Don's skepticism: 'I don't believe even for two seconds that the licenser told you no guns'; speculation about Dave & Buster's venue compatibility driving policy
$
market_signal: Premium machines experiencing significant value loss post-release; Foo Fighters down ~$3,000; Venom suffering 'catastrophic blowback'; Elvira multiple SKU strategy destroyed Limited Edition value
high · Don's personal experience with Foo Fighters valuation; Venom characterization as 'number one on-site game' due to lack of home buyers; Elvira 40th edition price collapse to $12,000 after Blood Red release
~
sentiment_shift: Community backlash against Stern's Limited Edition strategy; multiple SKU releases (Elvira Premium, 40th, Blood Red) created FOMO collapse and destroyed confidence in edition exclusivity
high · Don: 'people have like revolted to some degree'; 'people revolted against the Elvira's House of Horrors'; Elvira Limited Edition now 'worthless' after 40th and Blood Red releases
?

Topics

Stern Pinball licensing strategy and IP selectionprimaryPremium pricing ($12,000-$15,000+) and market receptionprimaryCore demographic targeting (age 45-60 vs younger players)primarySecondary market depreciation and value retentionprimaryMultiple SKU/variant strategy and collector impactsecondaryHome collector vs location/operator vs casual player segmentssecondaryJersey Jack Pinball vs Stern competitionsecondaryArtwork quality and theme executionsecondary

Sentiment

negative(-0.78)— Don is critical and frustrated with Stern Pinball's strategic direction, though expresses genuine affection for the company and the machines themselves. He is also critical of Jersey Jack Pinball's Elton John sales performance despite praising the machine's quality. Tone is passionate advocacy for the core audience, not hostile.

Transcript

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all right we're going to do a kind of different video that we've done before because sometimes you just got to rant and sometimes you just got to like offer common sense to companies out there that are just scratching their heads trying to figure it out we're here at St Louis escape and you'll notice that we have a bunch of pinball games and I mean a bunch and here's the Foo Fighters with the $22,000 topper and this game right here Foo Fighters brand new it would have cost about $122,800 then you add on the topper another $2,000 but here's the thing this pinball machine if you were try to sell it today is probably only worth you know maybe with mine with a Topper it's probably worth $3,000 less than I paid because the prices have been jacked up so high that they are literally pricing out the very people that matter to them the most which is the guys that are about 45 to 60 and you're doing and and here's what this video is about this video is about trying to help my friends over at Stern understand what their problems are because they're not selling pinballs like they were before people are aren't buying the limited editions like they were before people have like revolted to some degree and this Venom is a perfect example why nobody wants to pay $113,000 for Venom it's a very poor theme to buy there makes no sense to do this game none whatsoever and you move over here to 007 it's Thunderball nobody even knows what Thunderball is I mean James Bond is really not that popular in the United States I don't know how many people actually were clamoring for a James Bond pinball game however I really do like the pinball game but do I want to pay 13,000 or 14,000 or whatever it is with that topper was $2,000 do somebody want to pay $155,000 for the for James Bond the answer is no they do not now when you move over here to alvra what Stern what is pissing everybody off about your company is that you came out with Alvira you probably didn't think it was going to do fantastic you know and and what you found and this is what your biggest problem is you should not be doing Venom people love alvra why because one of their first pinball games was elv uh monster party and then everybody uh chased after elvar scared stiff people remember alvra you talk to most kids today they don't know who alvra is you did not make this game for people who are 25 years old you made this game for people who are 55 years old okay and they responded and what you did was you made a super limited edition that game is worthless now because then you came out with a 40th and you tried to get your dealers to get you know get 30,000 get 4,000 get 28,000 get whatever you want now those games are worth 12,000 because the best version that you made was this one elvir house of horror the blood red Edition this is by far the best looking addition you made and you came to your senses because people revolted against the Elvira uh you know the 40th and you came out with this game at the same price which was 12,800 or whatever dollars it was without the topper and you sold them all out and you see you made another 500 of these machines and you made The Limited Editions worthless you made the SLE worthless you made the 40th editions worthless and people paid an astronomical amount of money for the 40ths because they thought you weren't going to make anymore and everybody wanted the limited editions but here's your problem Stern here's your problem you you people went crazy for the elvirus because they have a connection to that from the 80s from the 90s okay mostly from the 80s okay and when you make a game like Venom and you want $133,000 for it that those people don't care about Venom but the reason why you made Venom and the reason why you made John Wick is because you actually think that you need to grow pinball and this is your biggest mistake you don't need to grow pinball you just built a big giant new Factory with all these workers and you can't sell pinball machines they're just stacking up all over the place because you're wrong you don't need to be growing pinball you need to be making pinballs for the people who want to pay 12 or $133,000 for them and the problem is there is nobody that's 28 years old I should say not not anyone cuz there's certainly is someone but most 28-year olds are not going to pay $133,000 for a pinball machine and they're not going to pay $7,000 either for a pro okay they would just rather go to a place like this right here at St Louis Escape where you can get alcohol and you have a leaderboard right there and you know just casually put a dollar or two and so on so forth so you want to brag that Venom is your number one on-site game well there's 's a reason why it's the number one onsite game cuz nobody bought it and so when you go on location like right here at Singles escape and you go on location and there's a Venom here it's like oh yeah I didn't buy that game um so I'm going to check it out now here's another prime example Elton John Jersey Jack these people have been plowing through new games like for the first time ever they're making a faster uh like a new new game like they used to come out with a new game like almost every two years now it's like every four months why because nobody's buying Godfather nobody's buying Elton John okay nobody bought Toy Story 4 cuz nobody likes the movie Toy Story 4 it's terrible they want Toy Story okay if you if Jersey Jack would have made Toy Story just Toy Story and it would have been green and white okay and the focus was Buzz and Woody they would have sold tons but no the focus is a a blue rabbit or whatever that is and nobody nobody wants that okay not for $12,000 and $15,000 sorry I have to get a drink and that's the problem the problem is on Elton John you made probably the most beautiful game I I give it to you Elton John is beautiful and I give it to Jersey Jack over Stern because look what Jersey Jack did on this game first off we all know that Jersey Jack has a better backend system better everything better computer bigger screen but look what they did with their limited edition it's $12,000 it comes with the topper it comes powder coated and it has radcal artwork something Stern's never put on any of their games they have a module out here to turn you know to plug in a headphone turn on the sound a Bluetooth it's all here uh there's a rail system underneath it it has all these LEDs I mean it has everything you could ever want a jersey Jack limited edition for the money at $122,000 is a better value by far than a Stern but nobody wants Elton John not at 12,000 and and Stern nobody wants to spend $133,000 for a theme they do not want see look at this game and look at Elton John you can't compare these two in terms of the Bells and the whistles because Jersey Jack is doing a better job you'll see that this game cost $133,000 but it does not come with a Topper this one's $112,000 has a bigger screen more going on more everything and it's 12 but nobody wants Elton John I don't want to spend that kind of money now you're probably saying to yourself wait a minute but you have it well that's because you know why I bought Elton John I'm going to be honest I bought Elton John because nobody else in town bought Elton John and I was trying to get people to come here to St Louis Escape where we have Escape rooms mini golf and this big arcade and we're selling alcohol and I wanted to have a pinball machine that nobody else had and I bought it and I love the game and everybody I talk to says the game is amazing I wish it wasn't Elton John but let's keep going now Stern your problem is and let's look at Foo Fighters I don't have your numbers I don't know how many Foo Fighters you sold I don't know how many rushes you sold but this is what I can tell you for a fact why did you license Foo Fighters when the same company also helps license Nirvana do people want Foo Fighters or do they want Nirvana one of the main reasons why Foo Fighters is popular is because of the connection to Nirvana why would you do new Foo Fighters This is game will come out the people who buy it they buy it and the game's dead where you look at ACDC or Metallica which now you're remaking Metallica why didn't you make it Metallica because you sold 10,000 of them and you look at Russia you go we only sold this many it's not nowhere near well because Rush is not popular Rush is popular with their fans now you're probably saying well that sounds a little weird well it's be what I'm saying is Rush fans are very passionate we agree how many of those people want to buy a pinball I don't know okay but this is what I do know that the only people who like Rush are Rush fans in other words there's no casual fans of Rush they're not popular and Stern what are you doing you literally could have gone to YouTube and seen that there's nobody subscribing to rush there the most viewed video that they have on their website is Tom Syer uh it has 60 million views you look at guns of roses uh they weren't from the YouTube era either they have multiple billions of views on their videos millions of subscribers obviously Guns and Roses is popular you literally could also go to Spotify you could go to Spotify and you can see clear as day that nobody's listening to rush you could also see that tons of people are listening to Rana or Prince or Michael Jackson or Madonna or Beasty Boys or Van Halen uh I mean I can keep going okay where are these games what are you doing Foo Fighters and rush for you're talking about two fringy bands that have uh you know I would compare the Foo Fighters honestly to a band like Grateful Dead uh because people love to go see Foo Fighters live they love touring they go touring all the time and people have a real connection to David Gro and I'm telling you it's because of Nirvana so why wouldn't you do Nirvana you want to have another big seller you do Nirvana when you go into a place and I'm just trying to give sense here you go into a place like uh um Spencer and you look at the t-shirts well they only sell t-shirts as sell you won't find Foo Fighters in there you go to Walmart you go to Target you will not see Foo Fighters you know what you will see you'll see a ton of ACDC you'll see a ton of Metallica you'll see a ton of Nirvana you will not find any Foo Fighters that's just a fact okay that should be your first signal that nobody cares about Rush except for a rush fan if you went to a mall and you pulled 100 people and ask can you name one Rush song you might find one person that can name a rush song If you asked about guns and roses and you said hey do you like guns and roses and they said no we don't like Guns and Roses well do you like Sweet Child am well yeah I like that song well do you like uh Paradise City you know Paradise City you know they would say oh yeah yeah yeah I like that song too oh so you're a casual fan see Rush has no casual fans neither does the Foo Fighters This is just a point of contention but here's the thing and the main reason why I'm bringing all this up is because you're facing this gigantic catastrophic blowback over John Wick that it has no guns on the artwork which I find Crazy that you did that and I don't believe even for two seconds that the licenser which would be lion gate told you no guns allowed on John Wick well I don't believe that there's no way that that's true because they say have a million clips of John Wick killing people but just in the artwork put no guns no I think what's going on is Stern has a new Ryan Policky they don't want to put guns on playfields because the games they want them to go into places like uh you know Dave and Busters so they're not putting real firearms on guns I think that's as as a Stern Ryan Policky I think I'm 100% correct on that and by the way I I don't agree with the Ryan Policky however because I don't think DAV Busters is ever going to buy a lot of pinball machines look 80% or more of your business now is home buyers and the average age of your buyers is probably 53 years old so you need to be making games that relate to these people stranger things wasn't a huge seller that's why you stopped selling it became popular later well because 53 year olds might not be watching stranger things but here's James Bond and he's holding a gun okay and what you did in John Wick is you took a theme where this guy does nothing but kill people with guns it would be like if you did Friday the 13th and you said well Jason can't have a machete okay so I don't have a problem with you not putting guns on your machines then don't license John Wick it's that simple why would you license John Wick if you don't want guns on the machine this makes no sense so here's the thing the and this is what everybody needs to understand nobody gives a crap about code yes the hardcore pinball players care the Casual player has no idea that the game even has code they don't even know what to do people walk into a game room type store and they get attracted to the theme they get attracted to the artwork that's what they're attracted to oh it's Animal House I love that movie I can't believe they made this this or Batman 66 I watch this as a kid I've got to have this pinball Ghostbuster ERS okay and here's the thing Stern how did you drop the ball on doing Back to the Future how did a little European company get the title Back to the Future how did that happen but why would you do Venom why would you do Rush when you could have done Van Halen when you think about Van Halen you think about 1984 you think about jump you think about Panama okay that screams 80s Beasty Boys Nirvana from the 9s all of these things you want to do a pinball machine that's going to supersede everything do Michael Jackson do Prince do Madonna you would be shocked at how many people would actually buy it okay but instead you're trying to grow pinball and you're forgetting who actually pays your bills it's 80% of your games are being sold to home users and at $133,000 I'm sorry to inform you they're not going to pay $113,000 for John Wick the only person who's going to pay $133,000 for a John Wick pinball game is somebody who collects everything John Wick and can't stand uh not to have a John Wick pinball machine and they just have to have it I love John Wick I love him to death but you know you should have done die hard because a lot of 55y olds would have preferred die hard and by the way he uses guns just saying okay but at the end of the day you're just picking the wrong themes you should be thinking along the lines of The Goonies you come out with Goonies it's instantaneous seller you want to fill up your factory making pinball machines the only thing that matters is the theme for $113,000 the only thing that matters is that you nail the artwork which I pray that you hire Christopher franie back and stop doing all this cartoon artwork I pray that you embrace the idea that the main bread and butter of stern are 55 year olds 52 47 46 okay you need to be picking themes that these people grew up on and I can name a ton but you've already done your most successful games are ghostbusters ACDC Metallica but now you want to Veer off the road and you want to do Venom and you want to do X-Men 1997 nobody wants that for $133,000 I hate to inform you the bad news okay we want Goonies we want back to the future we want Top Gun we want Matrix if you did Van Halen or Aussie Osborne or mle crew okay this is more mainstream where I think you're going to nail the sales without even seeing the game focus on the artwork focus on the theme and then embrace the theme now I'm going to give you a suggestion Stern stop the idea of thinking you need to grow pinball because what you need to do is keep your factory going so what you really need to do is focus on making themes that people want to pay $133,000 for or lower the price but I'm going to give you an idea you made a game called Beatles it's right over here which is actually just sewitch you made Batman 66 which is actually technically Batman Dark Knight and by the way how many people bought Dark Knight versus Batman 66 it's not even close where what era is Batman 66 from it's from when I was a kid that's what I watched okay on reruns I watched The Three Stooges if you did a three stoes pinball oh my God I think you would sell gazillions okay because we all grew up on the three stoes but let me give you a suggestion you want to create a new line of pinballs and call it the classic and basically take some of these old pinball machines that nobody really bought for home use like Elvis Presley okay why not take Elvis Presley and make it Ferris beeler's day off because the little Mech of Elvis scooting across the Playfield it's like Ferris bueler dancing okay I'm just making this up you could take these old games that are really old and you could just reskin them fast times rgon High airplane Blues Brothers catty Shack uh vacation and you could literally just take an old design reskin it new artwork change a couple bells and whistles here and there and only focus on games where you can get the movie clips so that you can turn the CGI part around quicker does this make sense and make a classic line and make everyone $9,995 with one version no Pro no premium and every game's powder Co right and every game has the same artwork it's just one version and you come out and you say we're doing Ferris bueler it's going to be modeled after Dale Earnhardt just as an example okay and it's going to have a couple tweaks and it's going to be Ferris bei's day off and we're making 1,500 of them or we're going to make 19987 I don't know what year Ferris beeder came out but let's just say it was 1987 we're going to make 19987 Ferris buers there's only one version that's it they're $9,995 and then you can still do your um you know your all out Keith elwin design but you can make [Music] these games that maybe you can't see yourself make spending you know x amount of dollars and years developing just take the old games put a color screen in and slap you ever seen the movie money ball where they're slapping magnets on the wall of names just start slapping magnets on the walls we're just going to we're going to think about everything from Saturday Night Fever to to Christmas vacation and that's what we're going to do if we can get the movie clips we're going to take an old game and we're going to remake it this is just my opinion Stern your meat and potatoes are 50 yearold people who who have the money to spend 13,000 on a pinball so with all that being said that's just my opinion take it for whatever it's worth and hey I love Stern but I hope they make better themes in the future for $113,000 or lower the price