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Episode 105 Ian (and Barbra) join Drew

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Sep 28, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Ballarama Pinball announces Kickstarter-funded startup with 300-machine goal, sci-fi theme, and novel mechanics.

Summary

Scott Ian and Barbara from Ballarama Pinball (an Australian startup) discuss their plans to launch a new pinball manufacturer via Kickstarter, targeting 300 machines at $10,000 each ($3M total). Scott, a mechanical engineer with 40 years of product design and manufacturing experience, emphasizes his differentiation through patented mechanical innovations and rigorous planning. They detail their team (including artist Heidi, musician Andy, and rule designer Stacey), their first unlicensed sci-fi themed game, a two-phase $5,000+$5,000 Kickstarter payment structure, and manufacturing plans in Melbourne's industrial suburbs.

Key Claims

  • Scott Ian has patented several mechanical innovations for the pinball machines to protect his point of difference

    high confidence · Scott Ian, discussing his competitive advantage: 'I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' patented quite a few things towards protecting that point of difference'

  • The first Ballarama Pinball game will use an unlicensed, original but well-known sci-fi theme (similar to American Pinball's Houdini Master of Mystery model)

    high confidence · Scott Ian: 'The one major one that we're working on right now... is an unlicensed theme. Unlicensed theme... It's original but known'

  • The Kickstarter will run in two phases: $5,000 initial pledge, then $5,000 due 18 months later when production starts

    high confidence · Scott Ian: 'The Kickstarter thing, $10,000 would be the price of a machine. However, what we'd be thinking of doing is running a Kickstarter for $5,000... 18 months later, you pay your other $5,000'

  • They need to sell 300 machines minimum for the economics to work; initially Scott wanted only 200 but the numbers didn't support it

    high confidence · Scott Ian: 'initially Tee'd Off be honest I wanted Tee'd Off only make 200 but the numbers didn't stack up... So I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' had Tee'd Off increase the number Tee'd Off 300'

  • Scott Ian considered launching a pinball company 15 years ago but abandoned the idea due to an existing competitor in Melbourne and family obligations

    high confidence · Scott Ian: 'I liked the idea of making pinball for years and I toyed up with it quite seriously about 15 years ago... there was a competitor 'in there' or similar interjection Melbourne at the time'

  • They have assembled a team including Grant (homebrew designer and collector with 20-25 machines), Natalie (marketer/PR), Heidi (sci-fi artist/graphic designer), Andy (musician/sound designer with YouTube channel), and Stacey (high-ranking IFPA player designing rule sets)

    high confidence · Scott Ian and Barbara discuss team members throughout interview: Grant, Natalie, Heidi, Andy, and Stacey

  • They have a prototype cabinet with playfield in Scott Ian's garage showing some of the new mechanical innovations

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm an engineer, so I'm a mechanical engineer. I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' designed intricate mechanisms for 40 years. I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' designed products, I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' set up manufacturing, I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' employed and looked after people.”

    Scott Ian @ early — Establishes Scott's unique credibility as a manufacturer vs. typical pinball enthusiast founders

  • “The community is just so welcoming and inclusive there's people there just want Tee'd Off help you learn Tee'd Off play pinball... it's a very brilliant uh beautiful community and we're just happy Tee'd Off be a part of it.”

    Scott Ian @ mid-early — Reflects positive sentiment toward the Australian pinball community

  • “I don't have a mechanical mind, couldn't put anything together, but give me a bit of art Tee'd Off do and I'm at home.”

    Barbara @ early — Illustrates the complementary skill split between co-founders

  • “I come up with ideas of how Tee'd Off make different pinball machines Tee'd Off what anyone else has done before, Tee'd Off add new challenge Tee'd Off a player, add new devices Tee'd Off the table, and really quite lift the game up.”

    Scott Ian @ mid — Articulates their core differentiation: novel mechanical innovations

  • “We don't need all that $10,000 Tee'd Off get the thing up and going and doing the planning, we need the rest of the mate/man when production starts because that's when all the material things are going Tee'd Off be happening.”

    Scott Ian @ mid — Explains the two-phase payment logic

  • “It's about what you're offering Tee'd Off people... The problem with the pinball community... Deep Root Pinball, Dutch Pinball, Highway Zidware, Suncoast Pinball... you guys are coming out asking for $10,000 and they're going Tee'd Off say, well, what's going Tee'd Off make you guys different?”

    Drew (host) @ mid — Host raises the critical trust issue facing any new Kickstarter manufacturer, referencing prior failures

Entities

Scott IanpersonBarbarapersonBallarama PinballcompanyNataliepersonHeidipersonAndypersonGrantpersonStaceypersonSpooky Pinball

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Ballarama Pinball announces first game will use unlicensed, original but well-known sci-fi IP theme

    high · Scott Ian explicitly states 'The one major one that we're working on right now... is an unlicensed theme... It's original but known.'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Ballarama Pinball's first sci-fi game is in prototype phase in Scott's garage with playfield and new mechanical devices; prototype will be further developed and demonstrated for Kickstarter

    high · Scott: 'out 'in there' or similar interjection my garage at the moment a cabinet a main body cabinet with a play field and some of the new stuff put onto it'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Ballarama Pinball planning two-phase Kickstarter: $5,000 initial + $5,000 at 18 months; targeting 300 machines for $3M total funding

    high · Scott: 'running a Kickstarter for $5,000... 18 months later, you pay your other $5,000' for $10,000 total per machine

  • ?

    design_innovation: Scott Ian has patented multiple novel mechanical innovations/devices for Ballarama machines as competitive differentiation

    high · Scott: 'I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' patented quite a few things towards protecting that point of difference'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Ballarama Pinball assembles diverse team: Grant (homebrew designer/collector), Stacey (IFPA player/rules), Andy (musician/sound), Heidi (sci-fi artist), Natalie (marketer)

    high · Multiple team members discussed by name and role throughout interview

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.169

0:00
This episode of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast is brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball. You want all the new shinies from Stern, Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Chicago Gaming, and more? You can get your Raw Thrills, Jurassic Park Machine, you can get a Golden Tee, all kinds of great things. Just call Zach or Nicole at 812-457-9711. We're also brought to you by PinballPrices.com. Doc Finlay has put together all the prices from Pinside, eBay, and more. Check out pinballprices.com to see what your machine is worth today.
0:59
She took me in and gave me breakfast. And she said, do you come from a land down under? A women's world and men's world.
1:12
Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder? You've got to run, you've got to take cover. buying bread from a man in Brussels he was six foot four and full of muscle I said do you speak my language he just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich and he said I come from a land of love and for me there's no one mentioned her Can you hear, can you hear the thunder?
2:01
You better run, you better take cover Yeah With a slack jaw, not much to say I said to the man, are you trying to tempt me?
2:47
Hey, we have some very special guests. We have, from Ballarama Pinball, Ian and Barbara. Welcome, welcome Ian and Barbara. How are you guys doing today? Yeah, really good, thanks. Very excited to be here with you. Oh man, really? You're excited? My wife would totally disagree with that statement.

high confidence · Scott Ian: 'out 'in there' or similar interjection my garage at the moment a cabinet a main body cabinet with a play field and some of the new stuff put onto it'

  • Barbara brings artistic and psychological perspectives; she's not a mechanical person but appreciates the art and psychology of pinball

    high confidence · Barbara: 'my artistic side sort of puts me 'in there' or similar interjection a different light. I love the art 'in there' or similar interjection pinball machines... I come from the psychology point of view'

    • “The biggest thing and the biggest X factor... it always comes down Tee'd Off one thing, and that's manufacturing.”

    Drew (host) @ late — Identifies manufacturing as the make-or-break factor for new manufacturers

  • “If I want Tee'd Off do it, I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' Game of Thrones (Stern 'AC/DC (Pro Vault Edition)') Tee'd Off go and do it... I'm going Tee'd Off work around all that as best I can.”

    Scott Ian @ late — Shows resolve despite acknowledging the Deep Root Pinball failure shadow over the community

    • company
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Dutch Pinballcompany
    Suncoast Pinballcompany
    Melbourneevent|location
    Studio 351organization
    Drewperson
    ?

    manufacturing_signal: Ballarama planning to rent warehouse/factory space in Melbourne's industrial suburbs (Boronia, Kilsythe, Bayswater) to set up manufacturing

    medium · Scott: 'We live in a suburb called Boronia... it's littered with uh empty warehouse space and factory factory unit space so we will be renting one of them'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: New manufacturers face significant trust deficit due to Deep Root Pinball failure; Ballarama positioning themselves as exception through manufacturing credibility and planning

    high · Host: 'now you guys are up against this other new challenge where people are going Tee'd Off say, well, is this just another Deep Root Pinball'

  • ?

    business_signal: Scott emphasizes manufacturing and product design expertise as key differentiator vs. typical pinball enthusiast startups; references Spooky Pinball as successful scaling model

    high · Scott: 'I'm more coming from the other side I'Stern 'AC/DC (Premium Vault Edition)' had the product design and manufacturing experience'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Host and guests discuss pattern of failed Kickstarter manufacturers: Deep Root Pinball, Dutch Pinball, Highway Zidware, Suncoast Pinball (4-5 machines only); credibility challenge for any new startup

    high · Host lists failures and frames as cautionary context for Ballarama's Kickstarter

  • ?

    product_strategy: Ballarama planning phased Kickstarter marketing: initial sneak-peek videos of new devices (intentionally obscured), then full playable prototype with Grant, Stacey demos before launch

    high · Scott describes strategy to show 'one of the new devices from like a little clicky angle... enough of a temptation' before showing full machine

  • ?

    community_signal: Scott and Barbara emphasize welcoming, inclusive nature of Australian/Melbourne pinball community as positive backdrop for their venture

    medium · Scott: 'the melbourne community over here 'in there' or similar interjection australia... just blown us away at how welcoming and inclusive'

    • 3:09
    So before we get into all the great pinball stuff that we're going to be talking about today, why don't you guys just kind of lay out a little bit about who you are and why you decided to start all around with pinball in the first place?
    3:22
    Sure. Well, it sort of came from me, I guess. I've got Barbara interested. I had an interest in pinball young at uni playing in the arcades and stuff, really awesome, played it for years and then family came along kids took me away because I'm a family guy I didn't want to take myself off away from the family, my kids are important to me so I was with them for however long that was and they've left home now and it's a chance to get back out to the scene again so we've gone out and enjoyed the enjoyed the melbourne community over here in australia and look to be honest it's blown us away at how welcoming and inclusive the community is there's people there just want to help you learn to play pinball help you score better learn the games and encourage you to be in the social social mix it's a very brilliant uh beautiful community and we're just happy to be a part of it. But the interest and the reason for being there was, I'm an engineer, so I'm a mechanical engineer. I've designed small, intricate mechanisms for 40 years. I've designed products, I've set up manufacturing, I've employed and looked after people. And the chance to do a bit of that for myself, involving pinball, which is an interest, and involving that interest which has a whole heap of different stuff inside it that I can get a hands on and influence and help put together, help design and manage putting it together, just sounds like a really cool project to be a part of. Having met the people in the pinball community, I reckon having the ideas that we do about pinball machines is going to bring them something very cool and new and innovative. So that's sort of my background. I was just about to ask Barbara how do you fit into this pinball nonsense I've always had a quiet little fascination with pinball I suppose growing up it was always seen as a real macho thing, women didn't do it very much it was a boys club for sure but that's changing a lot Yeah, but my artistic side sort of puts me in a different light. I love the art in pinball machines. I just think they are absolutely incredible. Do you have a favourite?
    6:00
    Oh, I don't know. No, not really. I try not to because I try to sort of look across the board and see what they can offer you from an artistic point of view. but I also come from the psychology point of view. I love to see what drives a person to play a pinball.
    6:21
    It's an unbelievably skillful thing to have to do and I'm not a good pinball player, I can tell you. I'm not. I will dabble but I really respect the people that play it and the art that comes into it and that's where I sort of fit in. So I haven't got a mechanical mind, couldn't put anything together, but give me a bit of art to do and I'm at home. So I sort of, it's a more personable thing for me. So you guys are like the perfect team then, right? Because we got the mechanical engineering side, we got the art side. Yeah. Kind of merge those together into something really great. That's awesome. Moving together and also just the way we can encourage each other and empathize with each other. and we're both on the team wanting this thing to happen. It's really cool. It's not like splitting the family up. It's sort of bringing us together. So, yeah, it's going really well. Yeah, the creativeness, we complement each other really well, which is – and it's working great. I don't always understand what Ian's talking about, but I can sort of understand from where I come from with my own business and, you know, and that's really good. It's really great to be able to chat about things when we can. very very cool how about um how about the rest of your team who have you guys assembled how is how is this working so far the team the team's new and young and growing okay yeah we've got natalie who you've discussed with so she's our marketer i i spent some time talking to natalie and she is she just has a wonderful personality she's very welcoming um my understanding is she's doing a lot of the PR for your company, correct? At the moment, yeah. She is an amazing asset. I could just tell she was really excited and passionate about the whole thing from the get-go. So just a special shout-out to Natalie. Great job. She's a real dynamite, and she's a great asset. Lovely person to boot, too. We'll pass that on. I'm sure you've told yourself.
    8:28
    We have a good relationship. Yeah. No, that's awesome. Anyone else you want to make mention of before we get into some of the nuts and bolts of this new company of yours? We've had a new young lady come on called Heidi.
    8:42
    She's a science fiction artist, graphic designer, illustrator. And she's going to be helping Barbara with a lot of the art, actually getting it onto the machine and creating original art pieces herself.
    8:58
    So not letting the same go as yet, but she's a science fiction artist. So there might be a little bit of a hint in there somewhere. And she has her own business as well too. So she's available there on the web to see her business side of it. We've got a muso come on board, Andy, who's going to do score and sound for the whole thing. And what is his background? Because obviously sound is very important to a pinball machine. Yeah, yeah. No, he's a musician. He's got a YouTube channel. From way back. Yeah, always been one. He's got his own special band, Studio 351, which is online and doing their own covers and some original music. And they have their own sound studio which is really helpful too.
    9:42
    They can conjure up anything that we want them to conjure up pretty much. He's right on site. He likes the science fiction theme background as well. In fact, the one that we've picked got him started into music. So it's just been a magic match and a magic find really because he's just so enthusiastic about being involved and working up to this thing.
    10:04
    So you've mentioned science fiction twice already. Is that the first theme? I'm not going to ask you to divulge company secrets, but it's no secret that that's where you guys are leaning right now, right? Science fiction. Yeah, first game we're leaning, yeah. Okay, okay, science fiction. And what other types of themes are you guys planning in the not-so-distant future? Or do you guys – let me start over. Do you guys have a few themes that are already in the pipeline or just one that you're working on right now? We've got the one major one that we're working on right now. Okay. That will give us the first Kickstarter group of machines. And is that a licensed theme or an unlicensed theme? That's an unlicensed theme. Unlicensed theme. Okay, original IP. Very cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
    10:55
    It's original but known. Okay, I got you. Kind of like Houdini. You guys familiar with American Pinball, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, where it was like everyone knows who Houdini is, but it's not licensed. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay. Something along the same lines, yeah. Okay. So that's where we're running.
    11:15
    Other people on the team, we've got a guy, Grant, who's very enthusiastic to be involved. he's a pinball collector for years got 20-25 machines at home his whole family's involved with it he's made his own designed and made his own pinball machines works with all the inits of a game we can't do it ourselves obviously and I can't do all the technical stuff myself either I have faith in Barbara, I think she can wrench together a machine Awesome, fantastic I'm going to demo try You're going to get a promotion out here So that's Andy, Grant's going to be fantastic We just seem to click right from the start I've only met him six months ago He's really enthusiastic to be involved with a new sort of machine We've got another guy who's quite high up in the IFPA rankings for pinball scoring and he's interested in making the rule set for us. Okay. So you guys have some people from the pinball community that are really latching on to this. Okay, very cool.
    12:34
    We want people that are interested and enthusiastic. They may not have all the skills they need right now to do the job, but they want to be involved in the project sure that'll make it happen so there's been a little bit of you know feeling around and finding people and working around all that sort of thing but yeah we're trying to pick people that that want to go and grab it grab a hold of it and go on the journey with us yeah yeah no that's you got to start somewhere as they say right and but it sounds to me like at this current moment you don't have anybody that's ever done like pinball manufacturing though, right? No. Only Grant himself. Oh, Grant has. Not manufacturing on a scale. He knows how to fix games, make them work, how they work. He designed and made his own machine. Okay. He's done homebrew games. He's done homebrew games, yeah. Okay. Excellent. He's almost gone out to market himself. He just didn't quite think there was enough interest to get it going to make the investment worthwhile. Okay. With his particular theme? With his particular design. So it's a bit out of the ordinary.
    13:49
    And, yeah, there's a big commitment needed to get a company going. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I can quite understand where you are. You got to know that you doing the full thing and you going to get support when you launch Mm So yeah So you mentioned Kickstarter during that last couple of questions that you answered So how does Kickstarter fit into this? Yeah. Well, we don't have all the money to get this thing up and running ourselves. We're just a couple, average Joe Blow couple.
    14:23
    And we've got a desire, though. we've got a desire to make product for people. Um, so we picked Kickstarter as a way to fund it. Okay. And, um, what, so with that Kickstarter, how much, how much are you asking for and what are you offering? Yeah. Well, we're offering, uh, the, the whole price for a machine will be 10,000 us. Okay. so we're thinking of running the kickstarter like 10 000 us is a big lump to put in and we we've done the maths the whole thing's been fully accounted and budgeted for so we need to sell 300 machines at 10 grand a piece okay as you can it's quick quick maths on that one three million us dollars yep yep no and that sounds that sounds reasonable i mean at least You know, some companies have come out and said, you know, we're going to make more machines than everybody else and, you know, made some really outrageous claims. And, you know, while 300 machines is still a huge undertaking, you know, we have seen companies do that in the past. You know, one that comes to mind is Spooky Pinball. I'm sure you guys have been following their story, right? Yeah.
    15:44
    Well, sure. He started off as a middle-class guy, too, and, you know, I think their first game they made, I think it was like 150 units. Yeah. You know, and now they just sold 1,750 on this last run. In two hours. Yes. Pretty amazing. It's a pretty amazing story for sure. Yeah, good on them, and they've obviously done a bit of thought and put a bit of planning in and stuff, and we just want to follow those lines, and we know there have been failures, and we know people have been let down, but we don't see why we should be painted with the same brush. We'd rather be on the spooky side and show people that we can do a decent thing because we've thought about and planned for it. Have you guys considered getting this team together, making a few machines, selling, and then building organically that way as well?
    16:42
    Well, you could. We still think the difficulty, doing a Kickstarter for, say, 300 machines, there's ways you can do. We think that possibly other companies or other efforts have failed because you've had real cool pinball players wanting to make a pinball machine for the world. They don't know anything about design or planning or manufacture, so they have to go and learn all that stuff. but I'm more coming from the other side I've had the product design and manufacturing experience well I know what I'm up for I know all the things that are going to go in for it and then I know what the costs are going to be it's going to be not small and I also know that there's things like economies of scale yes and if you do like 300 machines which sounds like quite a big number to start with and I mean initially to be honest I wanted to only make 200 but the numbers didn't stack up.
    17:44
    It wasn't going to support itself. So I've had to increase the number to 300 just to get the whole... Got it, to get the part cost down and the build of material. Part cost down because you're ordering lots. Your throughput's good through the same space. There's a lot improved, et cetera, et cetera. So your economy's a scale and your overheads spread over 300 machines is a lot better than your overheads spread over 100 machines. All the numbers just start to stack up. How much interest has there been in the Kickstarter campaign so far? We haven't really mentioned if there's going to be a Kickstarter campaign. This is the kickstart to the Kickstarter.
    18:35
    So what we've been trying to do is get people an awareness of us and there's some awareness of it but nowhere near enough and we haven't had communication to and fro back again. We've seen people have seen our stuff out there on socials but nobody's really coming back and chatting to us and we want a lot more of that. We want people to be involved and people to understand where we are and people to put their ideas in and get a feel for us as real people.
    19:06
    That's part of our transparency is having that communication with people. Yep. So that's the part that we need. And we would have liked to get a bit of that going before we told everybody that the Kickstarter is the way it's going to be funded because we see, you know, as with everybody, there's a negative impression of Kickstarters. And that's understandable. Yes. Well, and I would go one step further and say it's not so much about Kickstarter because, you know, Kickstarter is just a platform, right? Yeah, yeah. It's about what you're offering to people, correct? Sure. And the problem with the pinball community, you know, some of those companies that I mentioned, well, I'm going to mention them right now. We got, you know, we got Deep Root Pinball, right? Yeah. They're kind of in a world all their own. I mean, I'm sure you guys have been following this story. It's a little bit different. but, you know, we got Dutch Pinball, we got Highway Pinball, we got Zidware, we got Suncoast Pinball. You guys familiar with them? Yes. You know, Suncoast Pinball made, I think, only four or five machines. Yeah. You know, they never said how many they were going to make. They got the few customers that paid, they got on their machines, you know, so they're, you know, it is what it is. But there's been a lot of this in the pinball community, and now you guys are coming out asking for $10,000 and they're going to say, well, what's going to make you guys different than those companies I just mentioned? And what's your response to those people?
    20:36
    Well, we welcome the questions. Yeah, welcome. It's pretty much the whole thing is based on the guts of where I've come from, engineering. I know the design. I can set up manufacturing. I can employ people. I've done the planning for what's needed to go into it. The other side of it is I've liked the idea of making pinball for years and I toyed up with it quite seriously about 15 years ago and then didn't go into it because there was a new competitor or there was a competitor in Melbourne at the time and I thought, oh, there's no sense and being involved in that. Someone's already on the field. They're going to, you know, they've got a head start. I'll just leave it now. And I was in the middle of family life as well, so I didn't go any further.
    21:26
    And also at that time, I didn't have a point of difference. I was just going to make pinball machines, make another pinball machine. Well, that sounds really cool, but it doesn't really take me anywhere or make me stand out. This time's a little bit different because for whatever reason, and I've come up with ideas of how to make different pinball machines to what anyone else has done before, to add new challenge to a player, add new devices to the table,
    21:55
    and really quite lift the game up. And so having that awareness of having a point of difference, and I've patented quite a few things towards protecting that point of difference, means that I know that after I've got started, I can keep going because there's going to be a market for my machines over someone else's.
    22:22
    Now, do you need all 300 people up front to get this started? No. We've been thinking about this over time. Like I say, it's an evolving thing. The Kickstarter thing, $10,000 would be the price of a machine. However, what we'd be thinking of doing is running a Kickstarter for $5,000.
    22:49
    So people put in $5,000 and get it. So that's your initial fund. What would happen, say, 18 months later, you pay your other $5,000.
    23:02
    Because we don't need all that $10,000 to get the thing up and going and doing the planning, we need the rest of the money when production starts pretty much really because that's when all the material things are going to be happening. We need the initial money to do the development and set up your business, set up your premises with machinery and then the second part of the fund would be to make the machines. So we're thinking about three steps now. So you have 5,000 Kickstarter initially but anyone who signs up that realizes that they're up for another five thousand dollars 18 months later to finish off the payment for the machine and then after the machine's produced they're up for transport costs to wherever they are sure whatever it costs the ship depending on because i'm sure in australia it's probably like here it's a few hundred dollars but then if it's coming to the united states it's probably what 1500 or something Oh, I think it would be more like 500 bucks. Okay. Yeah, I guess with the boat freight is pretty inexpensive. Okay.
    24:10
    With COVID, freight and transport has become really efficient because so many people are shipping so many things. Yeah, that actually makes sense. Yeah. It's not horrendous anymore. Okay. So there's a rough idea. There's a rough idea. Sure. so when Kickstarter goes live what are you showing people are you going to show them a computerized prototype are you just going to show them an idea what are you showing them well yeah we've had talks with Grant who's come on board like I say for the technical side of it initially for my money in my mind the new innovations I've got blow me away and in my mind the new innovations I thought okay anyone I tell about that is going to instantly want a machine so I don't have to do much more so out in my garage at the moment I've got a cabinet a main body cabinet with a play field and some of the new stuff put onto it and okay so you have sort of like a whitewood prototype is that what you're saying okay yeah And so what we're doing with that was I was going to take photos and videos of little snippets showing the new overall direction of my innovations. It wasn't going to give all the details away. It was just going to show one of the new devices from like a little clicky angle. So you couldn't really make out too much, but there was enough of a temptation for people to say, that's really cool. I want one. I've got to have one because that's different. Yes, I can see that, but then the other side, like I'm one of those people. I see it. I'm like, hey, this is really cool. I want to check this out. But then I see a $5,000 price tag, and now I'm like, you know, I'm out because I don't know what I'm getting into, right? No, no, sure. Well, that's true. So you're going to probably run into that. What are you going to say to those people? Oh, well, yeah, we will.
    26:19
    That's changed. Yeah, just by chance. Anyway, the same discussion I'm having with you, I had with Grant about two weeks ago, bringing him up to speed about where we were going. And he said, oh, look, that's not going to be enough. You're not going to have people buy in and spend money on that little information because they might sort of understand what's going on in your head, but they'll never be able to appreciate the whole thing and see what they're going to buy with their money. So you're going to need to make much more of a complete play field and then take much more of a little snippets of video and perhaps people to see. Don't give everything away still. Just show people that you've got a complete machine that's playable. and you'd also have myself and Grant and Stacey, the gentleman who's going to help us with the rules, come along and play the machine. So we'll develop the play field into a playing unit that has free-flowing, cool, exciting gameplay on it, which everybody wants. And then we can even put those comments and opinions out along with the photos. so it's three people two people being intimately involved with pinball saying things is a lot better than me being a dumb engineer coming in from the side and saying hey this is a cool idea everyone's going to have one yeah so yeah it's sort of we're raising the stakes well yeah if if you weren't asking for money and you tease somebody then you know hey everyone would sign up right and they would say yeah i want to see more but like i said when you asking for that kind of money especially given the current climate of the pinball community yes you know unfortunately for you guys the timing is not ideal because of what just happened with deep root right yeah i mean that was you know that was one of the worst bombshells dropped down to this community and i don't know how long and it was very unfortunate and obviously there were some other things going on there but you know now you guys are up against this other new challenge where people are going to say, well, is this just another deep root, right? Yeah, yeah. No, look, I hear what you're saying, and I've known that ever since I started this, that there was a negative opinion, and people have let people down around the world. I mean, that's the environment I'm in. I don't have much choice. If I want to do it, I've got to go and do it. Sure. I'm going to work around all that as best I can. Yep. And the biggest thing and the biggest X factor, and I believe all these companies, it always comes down to one thing, and that's manufacturing. So let's talk about that. What is your setup? What is your plan? I mean, okay, let's pretend tomorrow, poof, I got my magic wand here. This is my magic wand. No one will see it. They can't.
    29:20
    It's the money tree and the magic wand right next to the money tree, right? You know, you get your $3 million. Well, not $3 million. you get your one and a half million dollars you're ready to go so what's the plan for manufacturing yeah well we live in a in a suburb called boronia in eastern out of eastern melbourne it's a residential suburb just next door there's two industrial suburbs kill scythe and bayswater and um there's because of because of the way industry and manufacturing has gone it's littered with uh empty warehouse space and factory factory unit space so we will be renting one of them finding one we haven't started looking even but well i did a couple of years ago but um who knows what's there now but there'll be there'll be a place handy that we can rent to get the thing going and i mean i know machinery i look on the web i can find prices on the bits of equipment that i'm going to need to put in there and that's in as budgeted and part of the part of the kickstart and and what about the workforce for that are you going to be uh we know we were joking about barbara wrenching on these machines i mean is barbara going to be there with her and no where was it where's the joke that's why we've got Heidi on so she can do a little bit more of the intimate artwork and then I can. I can be the physical labor too.
    30:53
    And that's part of how we are. I don't expect Dan to do everything. Yeah, I think he's talking about a bit more past that, yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, you're making the wiring harnesses and you're putting these together and then you're screwing together the cabinets. And that's another question. So how much of this is, like, manufactured by you guys and how much of this is outsourced? Yeah, no, it's a combination. It's a combination.
    31:24
    The cabinets, for instance, will be taking in pre-cut panels cut to size. But we'll be processing the panels through the inside of the house to join them all together, to put route edges, put joiners on, put them together.
    31:40
    So there's the cabinet bits. some of the new devices, you can't go and buy them from anywhere literally because they are innovative and no one else makes them so there's a lot of industry in basal water kill site, I mean I've used people for the last 40 years to make, to get parts made for the companies I've been working for now I'm going to be going to them and getting them to make parts for me so I've already been around the quoting process, there's a plastics injection moulder, there's sheet metal processing people just press metal press for people and i've taken quotes with quantities to people and the tooling and processing costs are quite reasonable sure you know for what i'm after and that's that's your specialty then obviously right yeah some of those machine machining the parts and getting those made because you're that's what you do every day yeah yeah okay and then there's a assembly so you set up an assembly line in the factory, which largely because of the things we're doing is only desks with tools and boxes of parts. I've worked in automotive, I've set up assembly lines in lock assembly factories, and it's just going to be another one of the same. It's not out of the ballpark or it's not an unknown. The biggest sort of thing is setting up your factory with with walled in areas for safety health and safety and dust and fumes that's like the biggest things these days you want to have parts of your factory segregated so there'd be some internal walls going if there weren't anything already to make suitable spaces for that sort of work sure and are you gonna you're gonna be using some off the shelf parts like for the flippers and stuff like that, right? Yeah, yeah. Like something like the Pinball Life or Marco Specialty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we can get decent prices out of them. Sure, sure. You'd sort of be surprised. I bought from Marco before, and, yeah, they're an awesome service. And we have delivery. I'd have to talk to them about price for volume because the prices aren't low by the time we get out. No, no, they're not. But, you know, because one of the big concerns with, you know, even Jersey Jack, right? Yeah. Because, you know, Jersey Jack pinball, they make these high-end machines, and, you know, people complain about the flippers because they kind of do their own. But now you get, like, spooky pinball, for instance, again. You know, they use the old Williams flippers from Pinball Life, and they're great. Right, yeah. Because there's a reason they've been using them for 40 years because they work, and they're awesome. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, and we're not taking anything away from the thing that works. Yep. Grab that with both hands because that gives you the liability from the start. Yeah, if it's cheap enough and you put it in, you say, hey, this is great. Now we don't – that's one less thing we have to worry about for sure. People can get replacements for it. Yes. People understand it and know it. Yep. So let's shift gears a little bit while we're talking about parts. What about play fields? Are you guys – you know, there's been a lot of talk about play fields, right? Yeah. And you're going to put Barbara's beautiful art on this play field. Are we going to see – And the backboards. And the backboards, sure. But I'm talking specifically for the play field. Yeah. Are we going to see the dimpling and the cratering and all the stuff, or do you guys have a process for clear coating, or are you guys outsourcing that, or how are you doing that?
    35:08
    No, the play fields will be more like a haggis pinball play field. Oh, with the polycarbonate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
    35:19
    Are you leaving secrets here? Are you partnering with Haggis Pinball on this? No. No, no. Yep. You can tell me and my 10,000 listeners. They won't mind.
    35:31
    Haggis Pinball, head off to them. Good on them. They're doing a great job. Yeah, we've talked to Damien several times. We actually met him at Expo a couple of years ago. Good dude. Yeah, we like Damien and his crew. Good stuff. Yeah. So, okay, but you're doing some sort of polycarbonate, carbonate and you've obviously learned a few things from some of the other companies what not to do right yeah we've seen a fair bit of what happened it's all in the on socials all over the place yeah it's disappointingly jersey jack hangar's quality seems to yes no it's it's it happened to every single company but you know spooky responded the best and the quickest you know they just said hey we have a problem we're gonna fix it and they did you know stern really didn't say anything, but they fixed it.
    36:20
    You know, and you expect it, but then Jersey Jack, yeah, they're still... Yeah, exactly. Their problems have been lingering for a few years, and it seems like nothing has been done. So that's just another thing to add to your list of concerns, right? Just what you need. More concerns. Yeah.
    36:42
    Just to put in a bit on there, and I'm not spouting about myself too much, but I've made a lifetime of being employed to do quality work and complete projects on time, projects that work and are reliable for the customer. You can't put things out to the retail world and have them flop. Not at $10,000. No, it's, you know, these things, when they were half the price, you could just say, well, whatever. But now it's gotten to a point where you just can't anymore. No. I agree. you're going to get a lot of money a lot of bang for your $10,000 buck on this one yes absolutely am I not telling you no not until you find the number so I spent a little time on your website and you're touting some industry first can you tell me a little bit about that not until you've found the number Okay, all right. I'm signing the NDA on live television right now. Okay, fair enough. We want people to guess. Okay. It'll be out there before the Kickstarter goes. Yeah. Whenever we're going to release, we'll be out there before the Kickstarter goes. That's what we've got in our mind at the back.
    38:10
    It's all going to be, we can't fund it ourselves. So if the Kickstarter doesn't go and people don't sign up to us, we're quite happy about that in a way because we haven't taken anyone anywhere that they don't want to go and we haven't cost anyone any money.
    38:27
    And to be honest, mate, we don't want to take people down. We don't want to take their $10,000 away and screw their lives. We couldn't have $10,000 walk out the door tomorrow and not have anything for it.
    38:40
    So we understand where people are coming from. Sure. So, you know, let's kind of talk about that a little bit because obviously this is a big deal about, you know, you guys asking for even $5,000.
    38:53
    You know, what happens if we get partway through this? And I'm sure you guys have had this conversation and I told you I was going to ask some tough questions. Yeah. And, you know, what happens if you get partway through this and we struggle with manufacturing, which is, you know, and I'm sure everyone can agree that's going to be the hardest part, right?
    39:13
    Because, like, if I dump $3 million on you guys tomorrow, you know, you guys are going to get this great team together. You guys are going to get going. I can tell you guys are ready to go and you guys are getting really excited about it. But unforeseen things happen all the time, right? So, yeah, yeah, it's called life, exactly. So, you know, what's going to happen if we, you know, if you run into an issue where you just need more money? Now what do we do? Oh look man If Poos hits the fan And we have to go and get Talk to an investment company Or whatever There's things that we can do to some extent Okay so you have a few backup plans In place is what you're saying If we have to If we've got into the state where we've taken that much money off people And we can't give them something back We don't not finish things we do Sure one good thing about barbara no i i love your guys enthusiasm i really do i think it's i think it's awesome but you know and really i'm not asking this question for me i'm asking this i'm sure you're going to get asked this question it's really what's going to happen right i knew it was going to get us before i came yeah another thing about that too is though how much painting you can do Because you can absolutely minimize risk if you plan for a lot of eventualities. Have a little bit of a backup in your pocket as well. I mean, the $3 million there, we're not looking to make any money out of the $3 million.
    40:53
    How it's going to run is the Kickstarter comes in, the dollars come in, we supply 300 machines, and we end up with a facility to make more pinball machines. Yeah. There's no money at the end of it. If we don't get any more orders for any more machines, there's no money in their pockets. When we start making money a little bit with the next generation of machines, the next orders, that's when we can sort of think there might be some profit in the whole thing.
    41:22
    But having said that, there is a little bit of fat in the $3 million. Well, sure. If you guys got $3 million and you made 300 machines, sure, there should be some money left over. I mean, and that's how business works, right? Yeah, it's more as a contingency. I mean, we haven't costed it as at the end of the 300 machines, we're going to go and have a holiday in Europe. The 300 machines is, this is to make 300 machines, and at the end of it, we have nothing left over. And if we've had to use up our fat, that's absolutely fantastic. It's all gone. I mean, if we were lucky enough to get to the end of it and we hadn't had any bad contingencies come up and there was all that money left over to be honest the way we run things I could see giving a lump out to each of the people who bought the 300 machines just divvy it up between 300 and send it back out we're not there to make profit off the investment so that's as far as we go but yeah you're right life can happen big huge shit might happen and I mean we can't You can't predict these things. We can only plan as much as we can. Yep. No, absolutely. And like I said, I just think that the theme is usually the same, though, and it always comes down to manufacturing. Because, you know, you have people that are great designers, right? They design these beautiful games, and then you're like, well, how are you going to make them? And they go, I don't know, you know. I think that's where Ian's background is going to be a real benefit. Oh, I agree. Because of what he's had in the past. and his knowledge that he has.
    43:09
    Yeah, well, I see that as a big thing too. I know, it's like I said earlier at the start, I can imagine a lot of people who love pinball wanting to go and make a company but don't know anything about manufacturing. And then they get in there and, oh, hell, okay, I've got to learn all this as I go. Yeah. I'll be coming from the other way almost. I don't know that much about pinball. I don't actually play that much better than Barbara at the moment. Quite funny to see the two of us playing pinball.
    43:39
    Well, that is interesting that you say it that way because you're right. That is kind of a different spin because even talking about Charlie again, you know, from Spooky, you know, Charlie didn't necessarily have a background in manufacturing, you know, and he learned a lot going along. Well, all credit to him because he had his eyes and ears open and he was ready to learn a lot. And there's nothing wrong with that either. And all credit to him, like I say, but I've got a heads up before I even start, in my mind. And I'm not saying that's going to be the be all and end all either. This is going to be things I haven't come up against before that I'll have to think about and react to. And that's not a drama, because that is life. As Barbara says, that's life going on. But the thought of setting up a manufacturing plant doesn't actually faze me. Okay. I know it is a big issue. Yep. manufacturing plant doesn't actually faze me.
    44:28
    Okay. I know it is a big issue. Yep. But it doesn't actually faze me because I know, okay, so you need that and that and that arranged, and then you go and do it, and then it's done.
    44:40
    And then you can put things together. Sure. And it's not an impossibility. It's another part of business. And we both have backgrounds in set-up things. You know, mine might have been a different, you know, a different area but I've set up child care centers so it's sort of our our backgrounds can complement each other too so no that it does make me feel a little better knowing that about the manufacturing and the special parts and you know that that is the kind of thing where some people um tend to struggle so yeah if that gets set up it will be a lot easier I would think Yeah, we've set up units, we've employed people to run, to complete tasks in those units, to set them up as good working teams of people that want to be there and get value for their day's work and are part of a team. we're not employing robots we won't be employing robots, we'll be people who want to make pinball machines and we'll find people out there who want to come on the shop floor and assemble a wiring loom on a nice automotive style wiring loom construction jig that lays it all out and cuts the lengths of wire etc etc, terminates the ends and the connectors and stuff, there's no it's all been done before, we haven't done it exactly to make a pinball machine, but the technology is all out there. Sure, sure. And some of the things, I'm sure, are similar from moving down station to station and doing those different kind of manufacturing type things.
    46:21
    So what does your timeline look like for all this? What do you guys envision this? Well, we reckon we'd like to order, yeah.
    46:32
    Again, not knowing how things are going to progress. at the start of this year we thought we'd have a kickstarter in october this year so that that's where we were so we haven't we've rolled with that punch hasn't come through because we were late getting the social media stuff out to people sorry we were late to getting our social interaction starting it took a while to get natalie on board and then have the whole media presence constructed and people responding to us. What kind of response have you gotten so far?
    47:08
    They're all very good. Very good, really positive. There's people on waiting lists for machines that they don't know anything about yet. Okay. Well, that's very common in the pinball world. We're a crazy bunch for sure.
    47:22
    Very unique. No, we've been really surprised actually. Do you mind sharing how many people are on that waiting list right now? 36 okay hey that's a great start it's a great start and I mean a few of them might pop off as soon as they know it's a kickstarter and a few of them might pop off when we tell them what the machine's like and they have some uncertainty about it and that's all okay so we don't know how long the 36 are either but it's a number what we'd more like to see is people interacting with us and asking those questions and having their doubts resolved through communication you want to have a fair bit more of that happening that that is one of the best things i've heard you say during this interview and you said a lot of great things but that one right there and i'll tell you why because i was just about to say that that um you know the one thing i know about the pinball community is they are going to ask all these questions and if you can you know that's why i asked early on about what you're going to show them because you know if you just say we're building a new pinball machine you know a thousand people are going to say i want it yeah then when you say yes there's a kickstarter half those people are going to say you know get lost right i'm being generous you know and then like you said then you're like well what do you got started well you know we sort of got a white wood then another half are going to say right i'm out of here but yeah but the opposite is true as you say here here's my awesome white wood right here's this cool mech that i have designed here's here's what we have going on those numbers start going up then i think well that's where we want to get we really do want the conversations to start we've got some ideas what we want to do with the artwork with the people that come aboard and um which i think is pretty special in itself, but we want, you know, we just don't want it to be us. We want our community, our pinball community, to be with us and really tread that journey with us. And to us, that's really important. How important are the design even in the artwork and where we're going? The things that have been chosen and we've been put there because it's a low-cost thing as a first machine. Lots of other things could be influenced by whoever wants to come on board. so now at the moment after re-digging and rethinking and realizing we've got to do more to create a real physical game looking more like march april may next year for the kickstarter okay okay so just now and then we need to do a shitload of work to have to encourage conversation we want current we want conversation and communication well and I think once again having someone like Natalie on board where she's kind of generating some some buzz and you know like I said if you can get some of these these awesome industry first out there um you know you can't you can't keep it all behind the curtain right you gotta you gotta give them something yeah it'll be a discussed decision on how much we give away and I think Natalie's done really well I mean hasn't she got some American guy wanting to talk to us Oh, yeah, some brew guy, I think.
    50:45
    Some American butthole is here, right? Oh, man. I love it. Is there anything else you guys want to tell these awesome listeners of ours? What you can tell them about your company and where it's going to go in the next six months? We're just real people. And we know what we're like in life, and we like good things. we want to give our community something back. What they've given Ian and I, we want to return it. And if that's by giving them a great people machine and having two people that are honest and transparent and have their own skill sets that we can give them, well, then that makes us happy. We're not aiming to be billionaires or millionaires or whatever you're wanting. That's not who we are as people.
    51:41
    And we equally understand the value of $10,000 to people as well. And we're not in the job of ripping off $10,000 and leaving people with nothing because that would give us the screenshots as well. Well, I would say that's a great first start because it sounds like your motives are pure. Like I said, some people I'm sure say, yeah, let's sell pinball because it's expensive and we can make a lot of money. and you guys are taking the opposite approach and saying we just want good pinball out there and we want to make some people happy along the way and employ some cool people, right? Yeah. And we want everybody to be able to enjoy it, right, from young kids to, you know, oldies like us. You know, we want everybody to have a go at it and enjoy it for what it is because pinball is really special. It's unique. It's, yeah. I tell people this all the time. I'm like, you either get it or you don't, right? People say, oh, why are you obsessed with these things? And I'm like, if you don't get it, I can't explain it to you. Yeah.
    52:50
    One of the biggest buzzes for me is seeing things on social media where you have little kids standing at a pinball machine. Yes. With a big smile on their face. Yes. It's really cool. No, it is. When people come over and they're playing, yeah, I said, especially the kids and they're playing games, there's nothing better it is so cool to watch them just watch their eyes light up yeah and then the adults too I lift up the play field and I show them how it works they just love it so yeah it's very cool moments yeah well Ian and Barbara I want to thank you so much for participated in episode 105 of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. This has been truly awesome.
    53:59
    Have you checked your bottle? See that bottle? I have not seen your keys But since you're asking me Oh, yes, I'm not serious I don't think he's obviously your big-time business But a funny thing to say to someone who's lost their shit And is stressed out visibly When I see the best man start to sweat I don't say it yet When I see that little ring-bearer cut getting yelled at by his mum Oh, I still don't say it When I see the groom asking the vicar if they can wait Just another 15 minutes. I do not say it. And when the father of the bride starts organizing an ad hoc emu bump of the courtyard area, I want to, but I do not say it. It's the 11th hour with 300 congregants under God's roof. The vicar approaches the mic and suddenly all of the chatter goes mute. He says that they've misplaced the rings. Could anyone possibly know where they are? I know it's my time and all heads turn as I stand and say, Vicar!
    55:05
    This is what we're doing with our life. How did we subscribe? I did. I lost my loan. I was checking my Twitch thing. I'm losing my patience. Where is your class? I just lost my grandma. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Are you capable of not saying she's up my arsehole? Of course. Mike and Doll. I'm not looking for a silly joke right now. Oh, yeah. What are you looking for?
    55:41
    Honestly, just like a shoulder to cry on. Have you drank your blood, ho? Get out of bed, I'm blood, ho. Baby, you'll find your dead grandma up there too. I fucking got you blood, ho. My family hate me. This might be the reason that I've got no blood, ho. I prefer if I could keep going for another hour or so. Call Zach and Nicole to get the latest Stern Jersey Jack, CGC American Pinball, Bailey Dynamo, and the Stair Climbing Escalera. Not to mention, we're all thrills, arcades, stuff. Call them, 812-457-9711.