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The Pinball Show Ep 118: Scooby Doo And The Mystery Of The Never Ending Pasta Bowl

The Pinball Network·video·1h 46m·analyzed·Dec 6, 2022
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TL;DR

Spooky Pinball announces Scooby-Doo as next title; Stern discontinues home pins; Cincinnati show survives power outage.

Summary

Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss major pinball industry news from Cincinnati Pinball Festival (Pinsonati), including a significant power outage during the show, Spooky Pinball's announcement of their next licensed game—Scooby-Doo, Where Are You?—featuring original 1969 IP, custom art by Matt Frank and Jeff Zornow, and voice work by Frank Welker, Matthew Lillard, Kate Micucci, and Grey Griffin. The episode also covers Stern Pinball discontinuing their home pin line, James Bond 60th Anniversary game details, and industry licensing trends.

Key Claims

  • Spooky Pinball announced Scooby-Doo, Where Are You as their next officially licensed game at Cincinnati Pinball Festival

    high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discussing official announcement; Craig Bobby segment confirms official announcement

  • Scooby-Doo beach towel was spotted in Spooky's booth at Texas Pinball Festival 2021 by Dr. John, hinting at the license acquisition

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's segment detailing Dr. John's discovery and Charlie Emery's deflection about Sally the dog

  • Stern Pinball is officially discontinuing their home edition pins (Star Wars, Star Wars Comic Art, Jurassic Park)

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's segment citing official Stern announcement

  • James Bond 60th Anniversary Edition will be revealed in mid-December, designed by Keith Elwin

    high confidence · Craig Bobby citing Kyle Inamoto interview with George Gomez at Stern

  • Stern has significant back orders and will not return to three Cornerstone games per year until backlog is cleared

    high confidence · George Gomez quoted in Kyle Inamoto/Markle Specialties interview via Craig Bobby

  • Cincinnati Pinball Festival experienced a multi-hour power outage (9:30 AM to 3-4 PM) from a transformer explosion several miles away

    high confidence · Zach Minney first-hand account; Chuck Wirt organizer referenced

  • Scooby-Doo custom art will be created by Matt Frank and Jeff Zornow

    high confidence · Craig Bobby segment citing official Spooky announcement

  • Voice talent for Scooby-Doo includes Frank Welker, Matthew Lillard, Kate Micucci, and Grey Griffin

    high confidence · Craig Bobby segment with detailed actor backgrounds and credits

  • Spooky Pinball is now considered a major manufacturer, not just boutique, and is number two in licensing after Stern

Notable Quotes

  • “the whole town is out of power. This is not a Cincinnati thing. I think people are going to understand you have no control over a transformer exploding a couple miles down the road.”

    Zach Minney@ 4:56 — Provides context and empathy for show organizers dealing with power outage beyond their control

  • “Scooby-Doo, if done correctly, Scooby-Doo is maybe the perfect pinball license. It just works for pinball. It's creepy, it's kooky, mysterious and spooky.”

    Zach Minney@ 18:57 — Expresses enthusiasm for the licensing choice and its thematic fit for pinball

  • “when you can get the actual voice actors from these characters...These are from the feature films, the feature series. I think even Mark Silk would be like, yeah, I get it.”

    Zach Minney@ 31:14 — Justifies choice of original voice actors over voice actor Mark Silk

  • “Spooky did have the license from Hanna-Barbera all along to produce the world's first Scooby-Doo pinball machine.”

    Craig Bobby@ 11:57 — Confirms official license acquisition and historic nature of first Scooby-Doo pinball

  • “Stern is in fact abandoning ship on their more affordable, in quotes, pinball line which has never really hit the volume highs to make it worthwhile”

    Craig Bobby@ 13:35 — Analyzes Stern's strategic decision to discontinue home pins as a failed product line

  • “I put Scooby-Doo up there in the A-plus tier, the Star Wars, the Jurassic Park...It is the Saturday morning cartoon.”

    Zach Minney — Positions Scooby-Doo as a top-tier pinball license comparable to major franchises

Entities

Spooky PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonCraig BobbypersonCharlie EmerypersonDr. JohnpersonFrank WelkerpersonMatthew LillardpersonKate Micucciperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Spooky Pinball officially announces Scooby-Doo, Where Are You as next licensed game at Cincinnati Pinball Festival

    high · Multiple confirmations from Zach, Dennis, and Craig Bobby; official teaser trailer released on Spooky YouTube

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern Pinball officially discontinues entire home edition pin line (Star Wars, Star Wars Comic Art, Jurassic Park)

    high · Craig Bobby cites official Stern announcement; characterized as 'last call' for these three titles

  • ?

    leak_detection: Scooby-Doo beach towel spotted in Spooky booth at Texas Pinball Festival 2021 was early indicator of license acquisition

    high · Craig Bobby detailed account of Dr. John discovering towel and Charlie Emery's false explanation about Sally the dog

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Spooky Pinball secures original 1969 Hanna-Barbera Scooby-Doo license with professional voice talent

    high · Official announcement with Frank Welker, Matthew Lillard, Kate Micucci, Grey Griffin providing voice work

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Stern Pinball has substantial back orders; will not return to three games per year until backlog cleared; production plans extend to 2025

    high · George Gomez quoted in Kyle Inamoto interview per Craig Bobby

  • ?

    announcement: James Bond 60th Anniversary Edition (Stern) reveal scheduled for mid-December

Transcript

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0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:12
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on the Pinball Show, I'm recording on location from Cincinnati, as Dennis and I discuss the Cincinnati Power Outage. Spooky Pinball announcing their next game, Scooby-Doo, Where Are You Pinball? We also talk about licensing, Bond's 60th anniversary game details, Stern Pinball updates, a new multi-market P3 game launch, Chicago Gaming Company updates, and rumored next remake. Honing my inner Spooky Pinball for pinball market trends, understanding basic mathematics, Olive Garden, Deal of the Creech, and much more. It's 118, y'all.
0:58
Pinball is a game of skill. For staff, it's a passion in their lifestyles. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:13
Hey everybody, what's going on? It's the Pinball Show. This is episode 118. I'm Zach Minney alongside Dennis Creasel. Dennis, how's it going? It's going well from far, far, far away. We're doing it remote. We're both. That's right. I mean, we're always remote from each other, but you have constructed some sort of contraption, an apparatus, perhaps an abomination in an attempt to properly record and be able to hear me at the same time. You took the words right out of my mouth, PJ. Yeah, the situation I'm in is in a hotel room. Probably should have already checked out. Hopefully they don't charge me for an additional day here. But I've got wires and gizmos. So, listeners, my vocals are shite. That's why. I've got a lapel set up on sweet Ryan White from CGC. Let me borrow his laptop. I'm speaking to you through a telephone, through Skype. It's a whole thing. But we had to record. There was some big news this week. There turned out to be huge news. And unfortunately, I am so busy with work on Monday, I wouldn't be able to put something together with you tomorrow. So here we are having to record our usual time. Hey, we got to do it. The people want it. This weekend, you're right, I am at. The Cincinnati show, termed Pinsonati, this is their fourth year. They continue to get larger and larger every single year. And this weekend, numerous people, I want to give a shout-out to numerous people that had come up and say they're huge fans of the pinball show. A lot of them big, big Creasel fans there. They like his honesty. And I came back and I'm like, does that mean I'm not honest? Like maybe I'm oversensitive to that. Yeah, you'd be plussed your way out of that probably. Maybe, maybe. But I get that when I go to shows. I go to shows and people come up to me and tell me how much they love our work, but it's always complimenting either you or Greg Bone. So I'm like, what am I, chopped liver here? I'm the one here. Yeah, they should give you some compliments. Yeah, but how often do people compliment me to you? I don't know. But honestly. See? But getting complimented for honesty is a bit of a weird thing because it's not difficult. So, I mean, see? imagine being a liar and having to keep all your lies straight it would be very challenging i think ain't nobody got time for that no that would that would suck and speaking of no time this show on saturday uh arguably the busiest day of any convention had no power whoa guess it guess that's why they didn't call it power sonati it was a it was a it was a total first for me and many attendees here that... What, you've never experienced the power outage? You're from the Midwest. Oh, well, that's true, but not at a show. I've never been to a show where the power goes out, and it was down for, let's see, show started at 10, it went out at 9.30, I was in the shower, and the lights went off, it was pitch dark, I was in the shower, and the first thought I had to myself is, Mama always said, if I keep playing with it, I'll go blind. And I thought, this is it! This is it. This is how it all ends here in this shitty-ass Holiday Inn hotel, touching myself in the shower. I thought I was going blind, Dennis, but no. And it stayed off until 3, until 4 o'clock. So there was no show. There was no show. They had to delay the show until there was power. And once it turned back on, it was supposed to go until midnight. Some people were upset, you know, I need to get my money back, rightfully so. So poor Chuck Wirt, who's one of the organizers of the show, he was, I spoke with him shortly during this. He was just a neurotic mess, of course. And he was just bummed out. He's like, Zach, I just don't want people to be pissed off at us. And I'm like, the whole town is out of power. This is not a Cincinnati thing. I think people are going to understand you have no control over a transformer exploding a couple miles down the road. Yeah, it's interesting. I actually did have this happen at a conference I organized. Oh, really? Yeah. It's a much smaller group than Cincinnati would be. But, yeah, a work conference. This was a couple years ago. So, yeah, it was in the summer. It was hot. And same sort of scenario, a transformer blew. And we lost power to the convention hall that we were hosting in. And so I have presenters going. this in our instance it was very well windowed uh location so there was still plenty of natural light but it's the summer sure so it's already like 90 plus outside and that's my big concern is i've got people here i can the show can kind of go on like i can keep having the presenters try and go even though we don't have any power but it's like what am i going to do about the comfort level what's going to happen you know as this room starts to heat up and then it turned out actually also I you know I I over assumed uh in terms of my next presenter uh we had just had a set start and they were going to run for about an hour to it my next show was going our next presentation was going to be uh an hour and a half away basically but theirs was uh was a youtube based one so I didn't realize this like they're there in person but they were they were doing a presentation on well yeah I'm sure the listeners love this but uh but kind of interesting kind of tied to pinball in some way, on risk communication. So they were going to go through a bunch of real-life examples of people that had, like, a PR disaster and did a good job, and people that had a PR disaster and did a really bad job. That is relevant to pinball, yeah. And they actually did get the transformer fixed in time for that. And after she did her presentation, she came up to me and she said, yeah, I was really nervous because my whole thing is based off of YouTube. and I, you know, just being me said, well, you know, we weren't going to delay it. I just assumed you were going to act these YouTube pieces out for us, you know, like theater. And we would just move on because you have them memorized, right? You know your presentation. Well, I'm happy that here at Pinsonetti it is the winter and it was 20 degrees out instead of 90 because a lot of pinball people in the 90-degree box is not a place that I particularly want to be. Not too many stinkies this year A couple stinkers But overall, been a big turnout And at 20 degrees Everybody stayed fresh That was good But overall it's been fun But what saved that show And what saved the power outage Number one, it's been kick-ass the whole time Number two, they ended up going It was supposed to close at midnight I think people were partying until like 2 or 3 in the morning They just left it open And this is kind of a close-knit Localist show So everybody kind of knows everybody. It's very, very pinball. It's only pinball. There's no big seminars. It is just a big pinball hall, and it is a big foyer or a big entrance into the hotel that hosts the tournament. So the stream is wonderful. Go to SBT and pinball on Twitch. Chuck Ward did a phenomenal job, and the commentators are second to none in this area. I don't know why, but they are phenomenal. They could be national commentators in pinball. They're really, really good. So shout out to them as well. Well, I'm glad they recovered from it. You know, it does really make me wonder, what would have happened at like a different show? Do you think like if the power had gone out, an expo of the entire vendor booths would have been stolen?

medium confidence · Zach and Dennis discussion comparing Spooky's position to Stern, Jersey Jack, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball

  • Stern has product plans already in place spanning into 2025

    high confidence · George Gomez statement via Kyle Inamoto interview quoted by Craig Bobby

    • @ 20:27

  • “It's creepy, it's kooky, mysterious and spooky. It's all together, that's Adam's family. Scooby-Doo works for pinball.”

    Zach Minney@ 19:12 — Articulates why the IP is thematically appropriate for pinball design

  • “they're probably not going back to three Cornerstone games per year until it works through this backlog.”

    Craig Bobby (quoting George Gomez)@ 15:24 — Indicates Stern's production constraints and prioritization of existing orders

  • “could this be another red herring designed to take another intrepid reporter off the case...Or is this the hard and honest reality that pinball fans shouldn't be holding their breath anytime soon for a Tron or Lord of the Rings vault?”

    Craig Bobby@ 16:15 — Speculates on whether Stern's vault edition promises are credible or diversionary

  • “I'm going to give it the hedge over both of those. I would put it ahead of Jetsons. I don't think I would put it ahead of Flintstones.”

    Dennis Creasel@ 19:59 — Compares Scooby-Doo to other classic animated IP for pinball licensing value

    • Grey Griffin
    person
    Matt Frankperson
    Jeff Zornowperson
    George Gomezperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    Chuck Wirtperson
    Jack Dangerperson
    Kyle Inamotoperson
    Matt Count D. Montgomeryperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Cincinnati Pinball Festival (Pinsonati)event
    Scooby-Doo, Where Are You?game
    James Bond 60th Anniversary Editiongame
    Hanna-Barberacompany

    high · George Gomez statement via Kyle Inamoto/Markle Specialties interview

  • ?

    design_innovation: Scooby-Doo pinball features dual artist team (Matt Frank and Jeff Zornow) for custom art package

    medium · Craig Bobby announcement; speculation about whether artists are splitting playfield/cabinet/translight or standard/collector editions

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky Pinball now considered major manufacturer (not boutique) and number two in licensing after Stern

    medium · Zach and Dennis debate Spooky's ranking vs Jersey Jack, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community enthusiasm high for Scooby-Doo as pinball license; positioned as A-tier comparable to Star Wars, Jurassic Park

    high · Zach's extended praise; characterization as 'maybe the perfect pinball license'; comparison to classic IP

  • ?

    operational_signal: Cincinnati Pinball Festival (Pinsonati) recovered from transformer-caused power outage by extending venue hours (delayed show until midnight, extended until 2-3 AM)

    high · Zach first-hand account; power down 9:30 AM-3:00 PM; Chuck Wirt organizer referenced

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern Pinball's home pin product line characterized as financially unsuccessful; discontinuation seen as strategic refocus

    high · Craig Bobby analysis: 'never really hit the volume highs to make it worthwhile'; echoes Zach/Dennis speculation from prior episode

  • ?

    community_signal: Strong collector/community interest in Scooby-Doo license; Scrappy-Doo petition ongoing; community divided on character inclusion

    medium · Zach and Dennis discussion of Scrappy-Doo exclusion expectations; references petitions online

    • 8:40
    You know what? I would bitch them because they're like, damn it, I paid $300 for this electricity. That's a good point. Yeah. Oh. Oh, man. It was a lot of, it's been a lot of fun. We're getting ready to break down our booth. We sold a lot of machines. And also what saved the show, number three, was, and we'll talk about it here in a minute, after Craig Bobby's segment, but Spooky Pimble came in, played the superhero, and there was speculation that they were going to actually announce at the small but vastly growing Pinsonati show, which blew my mind. And I talked to the guys, and they were like, they kind of gave me the, Yeah, we're about to drop something here. And it was pitch dark, but they came in, and we'll talk more about it after the segment. But huge news out of Cincinnati this weekend that's going to make everybody forget about any power outage. Shocking. Hello and welcome back to the Pinball Show's Top Stories.
    9:54
    I'm Craig Bobby. Now before we get into our exciting lead story for this week's episode, I'd like to start by telling the tale of a youngish but handsome reporter from Australia that happened to be a maxillofacial surgeon by day and an intrepid news reporter for the pinball show by night who was focusing his crazy reporting talents on the wacky world of spooky pinball as well as the Australian-based boutique manufacturer Haggis Pinball. Yes, the pinball show's very own Dr. John was casually walking the floor at last year's Texas Pinball Festival when he innocently walked by the booth of spooky pinball one morning before the show had opened only to notice that on the table in the spooky booth was a beach towel and the theme of, you guessed it, Scooby-Doo! Say what? Hmm, that's interesting. Could they be cheeky enough to be given the attendees present at the Texas Pinball Festival in 2021 an Easter egg and clue for the next title once they were finished their production run of Halloween and Ultraman? Dr. John, who was never one to back away from a good question, circled back to the spooky booth later that day to chat with spooky owner Charlie Emery, and after some brief pinball banter like, Hey, how about those bricking ramps in Halloween? He casually meandered the conversation in the direction of the Scooby-Doo beach towel that he had spied in the booth earlier that day, and might spooky be hiding their next being in plain sight? Charlie the ever-sly salesman with the gift for the gab tried, unsuccessfully I might add, to direct John's attention away from said Scooby-Doo beach towel by saying, He's just crazy. claiming at the time that the beach towel had been brought to the spooky booth for many years mainly to be used as a comfort blanket for their tiny dog Sally. Well, based on the official announcement from Spooky Pinball this past weekend at this year's Cincinnati Pinball Festival in beautiful downtown Cincinnati, Ohio, it would now seem that, in fact, Spooky did have the license from Hanna-Barbera all along to produce the world's first Scooby-Doo pinball machine.
    12:08
    So a big hats off to our retired Spooky and Haggis reporter, Dr. John, who was hot on the trail as Spooky's next title last spring at TPF. We knew you had it right all along, Dr. John. We knew you had it right. Now, not all that much is known about the new upcoming Scooby game, which, like I mentioned, is licensed and known by Hanna-Barbera and debuted to kids across America on CBS television way back on September 13, 1969. What is known is that there will be some custom art by Matt Frank and Jeffrey Zorno, with custom call-outs by a number of fairly well-known actors, including Frank Welker, who has voiced Scooby-Doo in the past, Matthew Lillard, who has voiced Shaggy since 2010 and has played him in two live-action movies, Kate Micucci as Velma, and Grey Griffin as Daphne. So stay tuned, as I'm sure Spooky will reveal production and sales information soon, as their builds for the very financially successful Halloween machine begin to wind down. And with the birth of one machine in the pinball world, we have news of the end of another. Yes, it's officially last call time over at Stern Pinball for all three of their current home edition pins. Star Wars, Star Wars Comic Art, and Jurassic Park, as Stern Pinball officially says goodbye to these three and only current home edition pins. This not-so-shocking announcement, first speculated on TPS by Zach and Dennis on our last episode, can only leave one to draw the conclusion that Stern is in fact abandoning ship on their more affordable, in quotes, pinball line which has never really hit the volume highs to make it worthwhile to design and manufacture, and certainly never satisfied the growing masses of pinball enthusiasts who only ever wanted the real thing. Not a half-baked version of the game at three-quarters of the price. Yes, not even Jack Danger himself, with his popular Twitch pinball stream and who recently joined Stern's ranks as their newest pinball designer, whose first design effort of the Jurassic Park home pin could breathe life back into the slowly sinking ship of the Stern pinball home pin concept. And isn't it ironic that the pure popularity that Stern has brought into the pinball hobby, seemingly bringing it back from a Jurassic-level extinction, and instead raising pinball's popularity to dizzying heights in the last decade is also the same popularity that is driving the Jagger deep into the heart of its now-dying Home Pin product line. Goodbye, Stern Home Pins! We hardly knew ye, but your sacrifice will not be forgotten. Now, can Stern please get back to innovating, designing, and manufacturing real pinball machines, says the literally thousands of customers that are still waiting for the Godzilla pinball machines. Now, speaking of getting back to it, there's been a lot of speculation recently about what Stern Pinball will finally unveil at its much-delayed special edition Keith Elwin-designed single-level James Bond 60th Anniversary Edition Pinball machine. But we now have word, courtesy of Kyle Inamoto from Markle Specialties, with their recently streamed interview of Stern's Chief Creative Officer George Gomez, who stated that the super high-end game will probably be revealed in mid-December. Also of note, George Gomez stated that Stern still has a lot of back orders, so much so that the company will probably not go back to three Cornerstone games per year until it works through this backlog. During the interview, Jason Knapp from Knapp Arcade asked George Gomez about the potential for a Vault edition of a Stern game coming out anytime soon. Gomez said that the Vaults are still a thing that Stern is open to doing and knows that many pinball fans are clamoring for a Tron or maybe a Lord of the Rings pinball vault. Come on, George, give it to us! But in reality, from a hardware perspective, redoing a White Star game like Lord of the Rings would be very difficult, plus Stern currently has product plans spanning years into the future. Today, they're already talking about games that the company is going to roll out in 2025.
    16:09
    Could this be another red herring designed to take another intrepid reporter off the case that is hot on the trail of the truth? Or is this the hard and honest reality that pinball fans shouldn't be holding their breath anytime soon for a Tron or Lord of the Rings vault from stirring pinball? Well, we shall have to wait and see. Well, another hectic and busy week, Zach and Dennis, in the pinball world. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    16:38
    All right, Dennis, the moment has come for Spooky Pinball. They are building Halloween. Queens are building the rest of the Ultramans. They've announced TNA 2.0 that they're building. Did you think that we would hear an announcement for their next officially licensed game yet? No, I didn't. I thought it would just be a little bit later, like at the start of 2023. I figured it was close. The TNA run was really the only thing. I thought they would wait closer to the end of that. Granted, I don't know how long it will take them to build all those out because they didn't sell out of the full allotment they planned. I know. I didn't think they'd do it at Pinson Abbey. Well, yeah, I didn't think that. And I didn't think this was the – timing-wise, I thought, no, you still give yourself about three months to build the rest of the things. because Spooky does a pretty good job, if my memory serves correct, that when they do announce, there's not much time that passes before they do start rolling out these games. Now, we know that for the Halloween and the Ultraman, they did up the number of units they were going to build, but they still hit that 18-month deadline to produce all of them, if not a little bit less, similar to their previously released game. So I was quite surprised because if they're announcing their next title now, which is Scooby-Doo, and we'll go into detail here in a bit. Oinks. But if they're the Jinkies, but if they're announcing that now, I bet they're going to start producing this thing fairly quickly. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I thought we'd see a March announcement maybe, but good on them. It means that things are going well over there, and I know they are cranking out machines. But, yes, they did announce, Spooky Pinball did come to Cincinnati to announce the title and some of the details of their next major release in the pinball machine, which is going to be Hanna-Barbera's Scooby-Doo Pinball. Now, I've got to contain myself a bit here, Dennis. Well, that's not really going to happen, but okay.
    18:39
    I just get in trouble for liking these things. It does get tiresome. I get it. Your giddiness, your childlike innocence when it comes to theme and theme alone. I agree about the importance of theme. But does it blind you? It could. But I think it's going to be blinding thousands of people because, to me, Scooby-Doo, if done correctly, Scooby-Doo is maybe the perfect pinball license. It just works for pinball. It's creepy, it's kooky, mysterious and spooky. It's all together, that's Adam's family.
    19:21
    Scooby-Doo works for pinball. And Scooby-Doo is a huge, huge license. They could have funked it up. They could have did a pup named Scooby-Doo. They could have done the new Cartoon Network Scooby-Doo. They didn't. They are doing OG, original mysteries, original concept artwork. They're doing original Scooby-Doo. at its best, its most iconic. Is there anything more nostalgic?
    19:47
    Probably. This dates back to the 70s. This IP is still going strong today. I mean, yeah. It's there with Flintstones and Jetsons and stuff. Hey, Jetsons, that's another game they worked on. You know what? I'm going to give it the hedge over both of those. I would put it ahead of Jetsons. I don't think I would put it ahead of Flintstones. Really? But there is already Flintstones. Yeah, I think Flintstones was more iconic to more people. Flintstones has come and gone. Yeah, but we're only talking about the original Scooby. We're not talking about whatever the new Scooby stuff is. I don't know if there's new Flintstones or not. Well, I think because of the strength of the IP, I think that's why Scooby-Doo would be bigger. I put Scooby-Doo up there for pinball, especially. I put it up there in the A-plus tier, the Star Wars, the Jurassic Park. Scooby-Doo, if you think about it, it's up there for me. It is the Saturday morning cartoon. It's up there with Disney Animation. and some of their biggest hit movies. I don't want to be dismissive because I do agree with you that it's a very large license. But I don't know how many people decorate an entire room in their house full of Scooby-Doo stuff like they do with Star Wars and Jurassic Park. Maybe I hung out with too many stoners in college because it's not just kids that love Scooby-Doo. It's adults. No, I don't think it might be their best licensed pick. It's tough because there's a certain cultural zeitgeist relevance to Rick and Morty, which I think really, really, really worked for Spooky. That is, I don't think, true anymore for Scooby-Doo, but Scooby-Doo's got a lot stronger nostalgia for obvious reasons because there is no nostalgia for Rick and Morty. It's too new. And on that grounds, the nostalgia grounds, I think it's probably, I would say it's their best license ever. I think you may be right. But I don't put it up there with the Star Wars. But there's nothing that's like Star Wars. Star Wars is so different than everything else. I'm just thinking any animation license. It's a couple of reasons. I mean, gosh.
    21:52
    Scooby-Doo, again, it depends on what generation and group. Everyone knows Scooby-Doo is the thing. Depending on who you are, I would still, even if you weren't a huge Scooby-Doo fan, I mean, it's going to be right there in the upper echelons of people remembering the G.I. Joe cartoon and the Transformers cartoon and the Smurfs. I mean, it's just like. Yeah, Ninja Turtles. It's there. Yeah, so it's a dynamite license. It makes me question why some other manufacturers stumble so, so horribly with licensing. And then here's little old spooky pinball. And I say that because I know that they're a major manufacturer. We can't give them the card of boutique company anymore. But they're still a small company. And here they go and secure the rights to not just Hanna-Barbera Scooby-Doo, the original. And then we'll talk about some of the assets that they get. And it's original Scooby-Doo. Let's pause a bit and explore that, if you don't mind. Where do you think they are on? I mean, because they're really public on their productions. Obviously, they're smaller than Stern and Jersey Jack and I would say Chicago Gaming, but are they fourth? They put out more games than American Pinball, don't they? I would think so, yes. I really think so. I know the scale goes way down once we move past Stern Pinball, but Spooky is, I mean, I know they like to say we put the boo in boutique, but in the world of pinball, they're pretty big at this point. They are pretty big, and when it comes to licensing, they're number two, in my opinion. I would agree. I mean, we'll have to see if the rumors are true about Chicago Gaming moving beyond doing remakes. But I kind of treat that differently. And then Jersey Jack lately, I just don't know what's going on with their license picks. I completely agree. As we're getting into the details, listener, we know that the custom art on this game is going to be done by two artists. I don't know what that means. I need to poke Luke and Bug to see what that means. I'm going to guess one of two things. Either they're going to have different, like a collector's edition and a standard edition, and they're going to have dramatically different art packages, or perhaps someone's doing the sides and another the translate, or someone's doing the sides and translate and another the play field. Okay. All right. We know that it's Matt Frank, who did Ultraman wonderfully, I might add, and Jeff Zornow, who worked on Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle, who did phenomenally as well. So Spooky's art package is usually at least discounting the play field, which I think is more debatable. But their cabinets and translights, other than like, well, like America's Most Haunted, it's been pretty good for a long time. Yes. The art's the one redeeming thing about Rob Zombie. And both of these artists received critical praise for both of those, you know, aforementioned machines. So using both of them, that's going to be a plus. These names are, I would view these as a positive. I wondered, Dennis, if when I hear Jeff Zornow, I remember the animation on Alice Cooper. I think he did a lot of that artwork. It was like a static imagery kind of thing with transitional motion. But I'm wondering if Zornow maybe is doing a lot of the animation pieces, whereas Matt Frank is doing a lot of the illustrated artwork on the game. I don't know. I could see it. I mean, it was, yeah, I just don't know yet. To me, it wouldn't be too weird. I mean, we're used to the zombie yetis of the world doing the whole physical art package, but there's no reason it has to be that way either. I can see one doing the play field and someone else focusing on maybe everything else, including the hand-created aspects for the display. And we know recent releases from Spooky Pinball, even if it's a Bloodsuckers Edition, Collectors Edition, Standard Edition, And they generally, in the past, if that's going to be a determinant, is they don't change the art packages much. Right. You might get broader. Right. You might get a little bit different train. But for the most part, it's the same package. So that's what made me. But they could. I mean, obviously, if they wanted to change their mind. Normally, I think their collector's editions sell the best, usually, because I think the way they do. They have a sales model where, like, if you take the upper end one, you get to the front of the line. So I remember that hardly anyone ordered standard edition Rick and Mortys because there was such a disincentive. You're at the end of the 18-month run if you're the standard. If for some reason they were changing up how they were doing the ordering in terms of receiving it and they were worried about people starting to choose standards because they make less money on them, for example, I could see doing a separate art package where the standard has scrappy on it and you force everyone to upgrade Right There so much discussion on his side about like petitions going on about leaving out Scrappy I'm in, unless there's Scrappy-Doo. He is, like, one of the most, if not the most hated classic cartoon character of all time. I think I just relate to some of these hated characters because I have no problem with Scrappy-Doo. I have no problem with Jar Jar Binks. I think it's just overblown, and people are jealous. That's all. They're jealous for these sub-characters. Give me a Scrappy-Doo mode. I don't care. Spooky, don't do that.
    27:19
    For your own sales, don't do that. Music is by Matt Count D. Montgomery, who we all know is the bassist for Rob Zombie. He has worked with Spooky Pinball for a number of releases now, so that's a highlight for a lot of people as well. I can't think of anything he's worked on pinball-wise that people turn their nose up at. So that's a good sign.
    27:41
    And the big thing for me, and during the announcement of the teaser trailer that you can see on their YouTube page, voice work by characters from this franchise, legit voice actors that have voiced these major characters, including the OG of Fred from Scooby-Doo, Frank Welker. Frank Welker has done things like Tom and Jerry Smurfs, my favorite Inspector Gadget in the 80s. He's even done Megatron and a lot of different Transformers. He's done Fred, and hell, he did Scooby for a lot of stuff, too. I don't know if he's doing Scooby here, but Frank Welker, that's a big one. That's a big get there. We also have, selfishly, one of my favorite actors, probably for the wrong reasons, but they were able to attain Matthew Lillard, who did the live-action Shaggy, and subsequently after, he's been doing the vocals for Shaggy for many iterations of the animated series and different films thereafter. But I've been starting a thing. It's hashtag Matthew Lillard for the win, because live her alone. Scream, come on. Just get mad, right? Better live her alone. Never alone.
    29:07
    Oh, never, never, never. Yeah, yeah, no, I was just thinking if it was who I thought it was, because I didn't see the live-action movie. Oh, the hacker. Yeah, no, he was a screen. And he was also in Hackers. Yeah, Hackers is what everybody knows, yeah. and he also had a recurring role on the hit police procedural bosh that you did watch that show for a while yeah yeah i watched all of bosh yeah because i read the books did he do well in that yeah i mean it's only in like maybe three episodes it's because he plays like a cia agent or something that's not what the show focuses on yeah he got a headshot didn't he died this is like this is like he was showing his more mature acting chops because i still People always think of him as like the stoner kid guy from Hackers. Yeah, that's right. And always being kind of like the surfer bro. And the same thing in Scooby-Doo is Shaggy. Yeah. He did a great Shaggy. We also get Kate Micucci. I feel weird saying it like that. Micucci, maybe. Maybe it's a Micucci. She plays Velma on a lot of the newer Scooby-Doo stuff. I know Kate because I'm a comedy fan, and she is one hell of a comedian. and she does the musical comedic duo of Garfunkel and Oat. Many of you know that. And if you Google her and if you see her face, she's in all kinds of films and stuff. And they have Gray Griffin. She does Daphne on a lot of the newer stuff as well as a lot of vocal acting throughout animation, video games, etc. So we've got a lot of the voice actors probably doing custom call-outs. We'll hear that soon. Frank Welker's the big one. I've heard it. He's hard to get. I'm not super familiar with a lot of voice actors. I will say, you know, with Pinheads, a lot of people would have probably liked it to have seen Mark Silk announced doing Scooby. I heard that. I did hear that. And while Mark Silk is phenomenal, when you can get the actual voice actors from these characters, I know that he does Shaggy and Scooby in a lot of work as well. These are from the feature films, the feature series. I think even Mark Silk would be like, yeah, I get it. I don't know, because it's going to sell out anyway. Yes, that's true. In the teaser, we got hints to some of the objectives, such as finding clues, collecting Scooby Snacks, solving original series mysteries. Are you doing the Scooby for it? Are you just, because I didn't see it flat out confirmed who was doing Scooby in the list, and you just did your Scooby laugh. Why is my fan turning on in my hotel? Hold up. It's overheating. That penalty of your Scooby is death. Death by convection oven.
    31:58
    What if the entire world was a convection oven, and now the air is just circulating? The dankest, darkest of hotel rooms. The dankest, darkest.
    32:08
    get the hell away from there. Six times I shot him. Six times. No, I'm not Scooby-Doo. Okay.
    32:21
    Mark Silk did train me well to do a shaggy and a Scooby, but no. I don't know who's doing Scooby. The game stuff sounds like this, as you mentioned, collecting the Scooby sacks and finding clues. It sounds like they have latched on to a very obvious way to integrate this into pinball. It writes itself, yeah? Yes. Yeah, that's a better way to say it. It writes itself. I was looking within the forums, and Spooky's usually pretty open, and they communicate well in the forums, God bless them, because I don't know if that's advantageous or not, but they do so, and they were hinting and teasing at a lot of sculpts in this game. A lot of sculpts. They say it's kind of, you know, loaded kind of deal here. They're filling out that environment that, well, I'm the dog eyes. Interesting. I mean, actually, I could see, I'm wondering, have you checked yet? I know you've been at the show and seen if Amazon is having a sale on Scooby-Doo cake toppers, because that would get them a lot of sculpts, and we know that's a tactic that others enjoy. You didn't say custom sculpts, so I just have to wonder. Oh, I get the low blow, dude. I thought it was somewhat fair.
    33:38
    I'm saying, a lot of sculpts, Amazon. Use Amazon Smile and support my nonprofit. Oh, you know how many times I heard that joke as I stood at the show by Toy Story 4? None. I'm the only one who's told you this joke. I'm the only creative person you know. Look at all those toys. I did see somebody was like, okay, well, sculpts are one thing, but we like mix. We like interactive mix, sculpts, whatever. And then they were kind of trolled back, spookied in, and was like, what do you think the sculpts are attached to?
    34:13
    The play field? Maybe there's a lot of mechs in this game, too. I don't know. I don't want to hype myself up too much. Hey, there could be more servo mechs. There you go. Bruce Nightingale and Slime Cheltz. More servo mechs.
    34:26
    I hope they got rid of those in-length elevators, please. What? No. You defended those in your review. I did not. To me, you did. I may be quote, because I don't remember anymore. They're not that bad, Dennis. Well. I'm tired of waiting 20 seconds to get my ball back. They work. According to another podcaster, no, they break all the time. Oh, I don't. Mine don't break, so I don't know. I can just. Yours are very strong, like mountain. Like bull. My favorite quote in the whole teaser trailer was We're going to be pinball famous That was a nice little nod to us pinheads And to us media creators So thank you with that We do know that the collector's edition of this game The highest model Being offered by Spooky Pinball The guys told me that it will be under $10,000 So that is, I guess If there is an increase If they are increasing prices It's not much It's a couple hundred bucks because... What was the CE for Halloween? I thought those were like $9,000, $9,500.
    35:36
    Okay. So $99,999. Yeah, and that's what I mean. Maybe they increase it. Maybe they keep it the same. But under $10,000 in this environment, when Stern has gone up to $13,000 for an LE and Jersey Jack has gone to their top model at $15,000, this, I think, is music to a lot of people's ears, especially if they're talking about sticking a lot of stuff in this game. We're going to know more this week as dealers here and the community here is more on pricing, how many units they're going to produce, different trim levels, features of the game, more information. We're not going to have to wait too long. It's coming this week. And you guys can hear it from the creators themselves, the reps of Spooky Pinball, on their Facebook Live this Thursday at 7 Central.
    36:22
    So tune in and ask them. It's like a Q&A, I think they do. Okay. Well, and again, you probably, I'm going to assume, don't have these answers because I don't see them in these lists. And I could wait, but I don't like to wait. So do we know who did the layout? Oh, that's a good question. We do not. Thus, I'm assuming we're going back to Chorus Barloff. Oh, so design by committee. Okay. What about the software? See, I don't know. When it comes to rules, I don't even know. They've had people come in and go out. I don't even really know who's there right now. I know they added somebody, but I don't know their name. So we'll see. I have no clue. And I note it for a couple of reasons. One is just even though I objectively can look and say Scooby-Doo, excellent theme choice, that's a winner to have picked. So to me, there's not a lot to discuss about the theme because the theme is so clearly a good one. Sure. And so I always, though, have a very just sort of personal interest in knowing how the game is going to look, because how it plays is what I tend to be more concerned with in terms of what I'm interested in playing. But then the second thing is, of course, there's been a lot of discussion, and I've always felt that it's overblown in the sense that I don't think it really disrupts things. But there's been a lot of discussion in the wake of Halloween and Ultraman, and we all know what's happened on the market with those. There's been a lot of disagreement, we'll say, with the way the software has gone and disagreement with the way the layout went on that game. And a lot of people were frustrated because they placed orders before they saw any of that stuff. And I know some people are like, I'm not going to fall into the same trap on Spooky's next game. My statement has always been, when it's Scooby-Doo Pinball, you guys are still going to buy out on this no matter how they do the reveal. because that's just how enough pinheads operate. I don't really think it actually moves them. Some people have felt that Spooky was going to be punished by how they handled Halloween, and I don't think that's true, especially now that Scooby-Doo is confirmed. But what are your thoughts? Does this sell out even if the game is a dog? What, Ro? You like my dog reference? I completely agree that whenever people have said, I'm taking a stand here, I thought to myself, if it is Scooby-Doo, well, you'll take a stand, but you'll sit back down really quick and get out your wallet. I think that this game sells out immediately. I don't think there's any problem with that. Because of what they've already shared, all checks the boxes. Everything checks the boxes. Everything original. We've got licensed assets. We've got the voice actors. We've got everything that they want. They're teasing about there being physical stuff in this game. it will sell out day one and it won't even be close unless they increase the unit uh unless they increase the unit total double honestly double they still might sell out but selling out day one if they're doing similar numbers to halloween you know what if they do similar numbers to halloween and ultraman together i still think they sell out day one I hope that they don't increase too much, but I think they sell out immediately. Then again, I don't know how worried they are about selling out because they came out with TNA and they haven't sold out of that and they don't seem to face time. Yeah, and I think some people kind of latched on to what happened with TNA 2.0 as maybe evidence in their minds. I can see why you would think that of, oh, okay, nope, this is like the Halloween effect. I'm like, well, you know, TNA is such a different example because the license, there's no license. So it's not, everyone kind of knows, you either are into TNA and what it offers you or you're not. And I think the thing with TNA was there already were 550 out there. There's no nostalgia tie to wanting you to get it. You have to just be really into the game. And then the price point they launched it at was too high. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was a number of factors going on there. The other thing I want to say before we move on to the next story, Dennis, is, listener, I believe that when you get Scooby-Doo as a license, that's a funky license. It's nostalgic. I don't see them phoning it in and being safe with this. I think that they're – I just got a feeling that there's going to be something different about this game. I don't know what, but just – I feel it in my plums. I'm going to disagree there. I think they, I think, of course. You think they learned their lesson, though. Yeah. I think they're going to look back and they're going to go, you know what? All the complaints about Halloween and Ultraman aren't the art, not the call-outs, not the light show. It's like, why did we do three upper play fields? Why are there this many scoops? Why are the rules, you know. It was still totally animation, though. And, of course, rules can be modified and evolved over time. And so I think in the case of Scooby-Doo, they're going to say, you know what, let's do a traditional style layout, and we're going to sell it with the sculpts, and we're going to sell it with the mechs.
    41:38
    So that's my guess. I don't think they're going to push on innovation. I think they're going to push on, let's just try and make this as fun as we can and just make you feel the world of Scooby-Doo and not get all cute with trying to be the weird layout. Like, we're not the Gottlieb of the modern era. Let's move back. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if this was a fan layout. Well, I mean, okay, that's fine.
    42:00
    I just think with that younger group, not the helm, I don't think that they've learned their lesson. And I think it may work this time. I think they're still swinging. Well, may work is a, I mean, it worked the first time. Okay, so you're right. I can criticize because I don't enjoy the layout. I can criticize that. And a lot of people have. And the market, on the second hand, speaks for itself. But they still, they have their non-refundable deposit model or however they've got it set up with the pre-order. You know, I don't remember the system. But they've got, they sell out. That's my, it's still sold out. You make a great point, yes. And so, yes, and I agree with you that it's going to sell out here as well. They either, yeah, and I can see it one of two ways. You can either, I know people that operate in one of two ways. One would be the, okay, we got blowback on this and this. Let's do some things different. Like, if we're designing by committee still and we're not, you know, very good designers, let's copy something, you know, similar layout that we know is very popular for it so we can at least make the layout inoffensive. That's what Stern would do. Screw you guys. I am. They'd double down. I'm going to make you like my weird layouts. And my argument, Dennis, is I don't think they're either one. I think they're in the middle where either they're just not aware of it or don't acknowledge it. I think they just go by the beat of their own drum.
    43:29
    I don't think that they would preemptively just double down just for, I just don't think that's the type of people they are. Nor do I think they're the type of crew leadership right now that would say, eh, we need to make a smart business decision here. Pull it back a little bit. But let's get a little – they are the Scooby-Doo clan. I think they just – they're in their own mystery. I know that, but they also said that they loved Halloween. I mean, I don't think you could – love of a theme does not mean you're going to make a good layout. A hundred percent. It just doesn't. And let's bear – and, again, we don't know the full story. At least I don't know the full story. But we have scenarios of, you know, when you have, like, Bo and Karen's helping you on rules, and then he's no longer involved, and he's publicly indicated that he ignored them about a whole lot of stuff, and they ignored all of his advice, and you're like, why would you ignore someone who had worked on one of your very popular playing games?
    44:27
    Do you think Bowen would, do you think, to be fair, I'll play devil's advocate, do you think Bowen Caron comes out, if that is a certified hit and everybody fucking loves it, do you think Bowen Caron comes out and says, you know what, I was wrong because I told them they were messing up this whole time. It's kind of convenient that when it falls, somebody... Sure, and that's why I said I don't know the full story. Yeah, I don't know how much I can pay for that. But numbers don't lie, Zach, and we know broadly speaking, I know there are some people who love those games, like Greg, but Halloween and Ultraman, broadly speaking, are misses in the community. Agree.
    45:03
    Agree. And as you said, Dennis, numbers don't lie. They sold out. I just, I don't think it matters. Honestly, I don't think, I'm totally on board with you. This is going to sell out whether they pull a page out of Halloween or they pull a page more out of Alice Cooper.
    45:21
    Like you said before, it doesn't matter. I think it sells out by a way. That was spooky for a long time now. But, you know, aside from TNA, I can't think of a single one of their games that really gets praised on the layout in particular.
    45:35
    With Alice Cooper, a lot of it was code. You're right. I don't know what they do. And they may not care. They may not care. I'm not trying to make them. I don't care. I don't care if they care or don't care. It doesn't affect me. And I've publicly said that spooky games require a little bit more maintenance at times. They're more finicky at times. They can be your problem children in a collection at times. So they have that, in my opinion, as a downside to a lot of their products. But for some reason, my ass still owns their games. And a lot of it is theming, immersion, et cetera. things that are important to me. So we'll see how it shakes out this week. More to come on that. I'm sure you're going to hear other podcasters talking about it with additional information as well. Well, congratulations to them on the reveal. Absolutely. Congratulations. And I know I'm going to get shit and everybody's going to say, well, it's because you sell spooky pinball machines. I will remind people. Are you a dealer for them now? Look, flipping out pinball, prior to the announcement of Scooby-Doo, It was not an official dealer, authorized dealer distributor for Spooky Pinball. And whether or not we will be for Scooby-Doo, we'll just have to wait and see. Oh, well, they're just going to have to listen to my opinion on all this stuff then. I'll say this. Regardless if I'm a dealer or not, I'll be selling some Scooby-Doos, and we have a running list. So if you're interested, let me know. People are like, that makes no sense, Zach. Yeah, it doesn't. It makes zero sense. Yeah.
    47:10
    Hey, Dennis, I was listening to the Super Awesome Pinball Show a couple weeks ago, right after our last episode. They interviewed George Gomez. But prior to that, they were talking about some interesting stuff, including the possibility of a Prince pinball machine, formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince. That's a good license. Okay. That's a good license. Yeah. That works. Franchi was making the pitch, doing some artwork, mock-ups. to pitch, and he said this was while he was at American Pinball. And as a result, Prince's license will never happen because they wanted $1.5 million for the assets and license to use in the pinball machine of Prince, and AP wasn't able to secure that. They came up with an offer, and it was laughable to the point of no negotiation there.
    48:02
    Yeah, no. $1.5 million? Yeah, I don't know if even Stern would do it. I don't know if they would either. I mean, Beatles, the rumor. Yeah, that was the Kamikaze rumor was Beatles was a million, and they did a whole special structure with limiting the entire run, and then that game didn't sell out right away. It took quite a while. So, yeah, I guess, yeah, I would agree with Franchi then. Prince is a no-go. Here's the thing that gets me, though, And I don't know if I haven't done enough research to know if Prince would be a slap in the face, home run. We sell this game out regardless because of the license. I know it's a big license. I know I like that music. But if we do the math, and for some math is hard, but 1.5 million, how many games does Stern make? Let's guess. You know, we know they do 1,000 LEs. Let's say they do $2,000 of each pro and premium at $5,000. Let's just roughly say that. Yeah, okay, yeah, $5,000. I don't think that's unrealistic for the biggest manufacturer in the game. Yeah, so if we take $1.5 million divided by $5,000 just to see per unit how much this license would cost this product, we are at $300. Now, for this to be discussed in a way that $1.5 million, this is crazy.
    49:34
    I don't think that's that much of a reach. You can't tell me that with all these price increases over the last two years, that if Prince really was a back to the future or something like that, $300 per machine is really that big of an issue? surely it's more than the money because for me i know that there's probably 50 licenses out there that if the manufacturer came to me and said hey if you want one of these 50 we'll be happy to make it but we've got to increase the price by 300 i'd say fuck it increase the price by a thousand because i want that theme and a pinball machine 300 bucks is nothing no i mean that's the that's The question to me would be, are you planning to put this in, like, are we doing a special Beatles-only, like, keeping it limited style thing to try and drum up interest? Or I'm assuming American, and this is, of course, a total assumption, American Pamela was planning to just put it into the line like they do anything else, you know, do a standard run.
    50:33
    And all of a sudden, are you having to reprice everything? You see, that's, let's say you're selling the game, and it's like, the game's the same price as Hot Wheels and Oktoberfest, and, like, that's what you wanted. You went in wanting that, and now you're like, all right, well, I have to either raise the price $300 or I have to shed $300 out of the bill of materials. Not to mention, you're saying we're using your number of 5,000 pins, which in the case of American Pinball, I don't know if they're going to do it.
    51:01
    Let's say they only sold 1,000 of them or thought they could only sell 1,000 of them. That's $1,500 more. Okay. And for a lot of non-dealer people that buy everything they love, that's a lot of money to commit. I think it's tough to make the argument with Prince because it is one of those things that's like, it could go either way. But that's the thing. I don't – I'm saying this because I know Prince fans, but Prince is not the Beatles, and I just don't think you – And let's remember, also consider it in the context of every other, we've got to think about every other license out there that isn't going to be ridiculous like this. It's like, why would we do all this mental gymnastics math stuff that you're making us do, Zach, when we could probably just go ahead and secure another almost equally, if not equally popular. Oh, yeah, and moving beyond music pens, this is something else. I agree. Like Scooby-Doo didn't cost $1.5 million, and Scooby-Doo is a smarter move than Prince. Yes, 100%. In agreement with all of it. But what I'm saying is I'm using Prince and these numbers just as an example to say what you're saying, in that if we know Beatles is $1 million, the most expensive pinball license ever attained, and we know that Prince was $1.5 million, which was like, that's ridiculous. to your point there's got to be so many damn licenses out there that even at a million dollars holy shit sign up what why are we wasting our time with some of the licenses that are coming out that's my point like this is this is absurd at minimum we should if beatles is a million dollars there's got to be so much that we can get with this similar amount of money you can't tell me that back to the future, if it is just a financial thing, my point is I think it's more than that. I think it's more IP limitations that are more constrictive than finances here. Because back to the future, let's say it's $2 million. Who gives a shit?
    53:13
    That's a $2 million sign me up. Plus, on the Super Awesome Pinball Show, they were talking about it being like, you know, When you get into a contractual agreement it like 7 to 9 of the wholesale cost There an upfront cost required but this million used as an example is not the upfront cost It's just that's the minimum you're going to be paying if you sign up for it. Otherwise, it's just a percentage of the thing, which made it sound even more like a no-brainer for some of these huge licenses. I'm not sure that was how that was explained. That's how I understood it. I interpreted it as, let's use the $1.5 million. So the $1.5 million, I took it like how it works is like a book advance. So you're paying, in this case, you're advancing the license holder, the $1.5 million. You make the games. And then once they have earned off of what the percentage would be, the $1.5 million, if you continue to make more, they get the percentage per unit. Yes, yes. I see it that way as well. But I didn't think it's $1.5 million up front. I thought it was percentage up to the segment. I don't remember the segment well enough to remember how they handle doing the initial payments. But anything after that net, and if it's a percentage, whoop-de-fucking-do. Whoop-de-do. Yeah, no, I don't think that's the barrier. I don't believe that was presented as the barrier. They're just kind of explaining why the license holder, like why Stern renewing ACDC five different times wasn't a big deal. Because they probably just said, yeah, we're just going to keep getting the percentage. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. It made me think hearing those guys talk about it, especially for Angie, because he was speaking from the experience of it. And it seems even more like a no-brainer for these companies to swing for the fences with licenses instead of some of the titles we've been seeing over the last five years. You know, in some instances, I don't know. I don't know the answer because I think it depends on what boat, you know, which of the pinball manufacturing boats we're floating on, right? So, like, I think Stern's license picks have all made sense regardless of whatever they're spending on them. I don't understand the, granted, a lot of these are rumored. Some of the rumored JJP licenses and some of the stuff we've seen come out seem logical, and some of them seem odd to me. And then American Pinball, which constantly seems almost, I don't want to use the word afraid, but I will, afraid to commit long-term to licenses, and they keep playing the original theme game.
    55:54
    But then when we have Pinball Brothers rocking out Alien and Queen, those are big licenses. I mean, yeah, some of these, it just, and again, I don't think those necessarily cost too much. I just don't think there's any excuse for American pinball at this point. When Pinball Brothers is pulling what they are, when Spooky Pinball is doing what they are, I just don't think, I think it is a decision at this point. I don't think they can hide behind it's too expensive because that's bullshit. I think it's bullshit. They're choosing not to pick big licensing, in my opinion. Well, they clearly are choosing not to. I just don't know what the motivation behind it is. When you hear the interviews, and thinking back to some of the David Fix interviews, it seemed to me that it was his opinion that there is a big market for original pinball. I disagree with him. I don't think there is a big market for original themes. I agree. And as I'm thinking about it, Iron Maiden.
    56:52
    What? Rush. What? I'm sorry. They knew they were going to sell every Canadian with a Rush thing, so that was smart. I don't think so. It was smart. But there are 100 licenses better. Why are we messing with Rush? Why are we messing with Iron Maiden? Because it was easy to get. It was easy to do. I think music pins, I think Stern turns to music pins because I think they're easy. Like, I think that it's like, oh, well, you don't have to come up with a story. Like, it's easy on the programmers. We don't have to come up with a story or anything. Just throw in, you know, it's all about rules. Don't trigger Ray Day. Oh, he... Get him triggered. He wants to do rules that are just rules. You know, you don't have to tell a story in a music pen. In a world of rules and stories. Let's say he's on the right. That's like the writer has to do that or something. I don't know. He gets stuck doing the right. Maybe they all hate it. And they're like, I don't want to... Maybe only Dwight likes that. I want to craft a world, a real world under glass through the storytelling. No one else is like, I want to figure out how to put in a 4X bonus. And with songs, we can just do it. Just do it. airport mode. Some people, I think, maybe prefer it that way. Because then, you know, when you do shows and movies and stuff, you do get people whining like, it's out of order. Why are we playing Guardians? And everything's like, we're not going through the sequence of the movie. We're playing different, you know, we're in nowhere when we shouldn't be at nowhere yet in the story. Well, because it's a pinball game. You don't want it linear, so. The Super Awesome Pinball Show hosts also interviewed George Gomez in a two-parter. I heard the first part. I have not yet listened to the second part. I finished the second yesterday. Okay. So you can fill us in if there's anything additional here. But they talked about the licensor of James Bond, George Gomez said, they actually were the ones that requested the 60th anniversary old school style of machine. I found that interesting. They were the ones that wanted to do such a thing. Huh. How about that? They wanted an old school thing. a lot of these licensors, that's quite what they know pinball as still so I guess they're like, yeah, you can do what you want with your video game up to date kind of thing but can we just have an old pinball machine? and I guess it makes sense to the generation of when James Bond came out the focus of using Sean Connery as the James Bond back in the I mean, kind of that's where it's like but we've seen in the mock-up image that was leaked by the 007 store that the 60th anniversary, like, has all the bonds in it. So it would have made more sense for, in my mind, for Gomez's version to be the one that represented all the movies and then Elwynn's version to just have done Connery. I get that. I don't know. We're going to see it mid-December is what I'm hearing. Also, there's three sets of sounds on Elwynn's 60th anniversary. I guess it's like an old tech board or like a dip switch on some of the older games. Oh, are they doing like how chimes were, with three chimes? Yeah, I don't. Three sets of sounds. I think you can change it to where it's like early 80s sounds or more contemporary sounds. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. George Gomez said about Keith Elwin's 60th anniversary upcoming James Bond special edition game, He has never seen, quote, swoopy figure eight thing, in quote, that returns it back to the flipper for a shot continuation.
    60:20
    I don't even know what that means, but it sounds cool. Swoopy figure eight thing that returns it back to the flipper. It's the swoopy part that's so confusing. Is he talking about like a fathom in lane?
    60:31
    You know, when I hear swoopy figure eight thing, I almost think of like how Mark Ritchie and his crossover ramps. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But instead, obviously, this is a single level, so maybe it comes in, you know, shoot a left shot, and then it loops, and there's a ball guide that will feed it around, and then it pops out. Or maybe like a single-level Deadpool katana shot, where it kind of feeds from one part of the other. And there would be gaps in it so that it has guides, but there are breaks, so the ball actually will continue on its trajectory because of physics, and then it will feed back around. And so you'll shoot in in the left-hand entrance, and it will come out of the right-hand side of the figure eight, but back to the left. Back to the left flipper. I visually saw that when you explained it. Yeah. That's the swoopy figure eight thing. We've decided that. The crease of the eight. Okay. Maybe. He said there's in-line targets for this upcoming game release. There's crossover features for the Insider Connected between George Gomez's Cornerstone game and the Keith L. 160th Anniversary Limited game. So that's interesting. George Gomez also said in the interview that it was cost prohibitive to get Goldfinger and Thunderball theme songs. So he was bummed about that. Well, they just need to add $300 more to the machine. See? That's what I'm saying. That's probably only $50 extra for the machine. Did they want $1.5 million? I don't think so. Goldfinger.
    62:00
    Just have me sing it. I'll do it for Tin Machine. He is a man. Midas touch. I don't... A spider's touch. I just... Maybe we need to go to a la carte pinball more. Some of us collectors are okay with paying the extra.
    62:22
    When you said a la carte, I thought you were going to say Olive Garden. There you go, American Fibble's first mall. The Olive Garden Mall. Breadsticks and salad. Yeah, breadstick multi-ball.
    62:36
    When you're here, you're family wizard mode. Why is it that Olive Garden has become like the McDonald's of sit-down restaurants? No, it's basically Applebee's and Chili's now. I know. And you know what? Growing up in the lower class, maybe hoping to be middle class, Olive Garden was a big deal for my family. And you know what? I still love Olive Garden. My wife turns her nose up at it, and she's like, God, no, we're not going there. But I love the Olive Garden, especially with the breadsticks, and you get the little Alfredo dipping sauce. Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable. It's good shit. Well, years ago, I went one time with a friend of mine, and he had never, I don't think he'd ever been to an Olive Garden. And he ordered their lasagna. And they brought it out, and he just looks at it, and the waitress comes back, and she's like, oh, something's wrong. And he goes, no, no, it's fine. It just, I was surprised at how small it was. She brought him out a bigger piece. Well, I'd be okay if they even actually unpackaged it on my plate. Because it's a microwave rug. It was just funny because he had been a waiter for years. And so after he ordered it, before it came out, he had said, I don't know how they make money at these price points.
    63:59
    And then he gets his baby sliced lasagna size. And I'm like, that's how. Enjoy your ravioli sized lasagna.
    64:07
    Lasagna. I'm going to complain about it. There's a dish. A dish from a plastic bag. bread sauce back.
    64:26
    Extra parmesan cheese we will shred. I go with the tour of Italy, and I love it. I just love it. It tastes even better heated back up again the next day. Give it to me all day long. I'm not afraid to admit I love Olive Garden. Garden Fresh Salad. Drizzled with our signature Italian dressing. Or four homemade soups to choose from.
    64:53
    Plus, fresh out of the oven breadsticks. Our famous never-ending first course is so good, you might just forget you still have more to look forward to. Enjoy never-ending super salad and breadsticks. On us before every meal.
    65:10
    Only at Olive Garden. We're all family here. Okay, what else do we got in this interview? They talked about the original Bond on a wand jet pack. It was originally conceptualized flying around the playfield and bonds being angled at different times. It was very much, George said, more dynamic in its presentation than what it currently, than what it ended up being. And he said the problem was that from an engineering standpoint, getting him to move around the playfield, being that it was dynamic, was fine. But it didn't have the structure to be able to hold a ball bearing. so yeah that makes sense it reminds me of because when he when that was described it made me think of like the premium le ghostbuster slimer mech oh yeah yeah which you know moved around quite a bit but all it was holding up was that little rubber slimer it didn't have to didn't have to sustain a ball it made me think about the uh prototype attack from mars how brian eddie originally wanted the ufo to come out over the play field on a on a uh i guess on a beam or on a on a wand a steel pole or something, and it was supposed to come out and move around, but instead it was just more static in its production model. That's what it made me think about.
    66:27
    I don't know. Well, I haven't played the premium here at the Pinsonetta yet. I need to get some time on it before we close down today. Speaking of Stern Pinball, I forgot which podcast or stream I heard this on, but George Gomez was talking about likely only being two Cornerstone releases in 2023. It might have been Saps. Okay, it may have been, but he talked about due to back orders and such, that we'll probably see a year like 2022 with only two Cornerstone releases. And you and I discussed that, and we kind of posited the idea that maybe there was only going to be two next year. I think it's the right decision until they're caught up on the backlog. Yeah, and especially if they want to sneak in another little special version like they're doing this year of the 60th anniversary of Elwynn's Bond. Nah, I get that then. Two cornerstones makes sense. I know it makes you sad because you like talking about new pinball, but... I do like new pinball, damn it. There was an update as well.
    67:30
    Someone from Stern reached out to me and wanted to clarify that they said, Today, I listened to your podcast, heard about you guys discussing the home editions of Jurassic Park being last call on Star Wars and Star Wars comic home editions being last call. You guys kind of speculating, is this it for the home edition models or are we gearing up for another title? They said they wanted to confirm with us that they have no plans for the home edition to go away. The line, Jurassic Park and Star Wars are going away. Correct. That is last call. that's going to be done. They could always, like we talked about before, hell, a year from now, maybe they want to re-up that license. No, sure, call them. Yeah, but they said that that line is not dead. In fact, they do have plans to have another release of the home edition. So there's your update from Stern Pinball themselves.
    68:27
    No big production updates or changes this week. We're still going to be seeing Bond LEs probably start rolling out in the next week or two. And alongside the rest of those early run pros, we're going to see some Jurassic Park home editions go on the line here soon, if not already.
    68:45
    Gearing up to the end of that run. And then throughout the month, you're going to see LEs of Bonds. Beginning of next month, January, we're going to see premiums on the line as well as the 60th anniversary on the line. And then at the end of the month to the beginning of February, you're going to see more James Bond pros. So a lot of mew-mew-mew-mew-mew-mew-mews are coming. I'm looking forward to it. Which is good because that's the only song in the game. You know, I've heard a lot of it this weekend.
    69:15
    I unboxed the showroom pro for Flippin' Out Pinball, and my first takes were that it is a fast bastard of a game. It is a very, very fast, bouncy game. I don't know if it's a great thing, I don't know if it's a horrible thing It's just I'm stating that it is a fast It's a fast game Yeah, I still haven't We actually got two on location I wasn't able to get out yet and play either of them, but we had a couple of Bond pros recently arrive and, you know, the feedback and actually, you know, the only thing I would note from the second part of the Gomez interview is he spoke more about, like, the challenges they had with the Queen's death, for example He kind of went on to explain, no, they really were taken by surprise. They'd shipped the games over, and then it was very last minute that the licensor said, you know, we want you, Stern, to not have this at our UK show because of the Queen's death. Because George wanted to push back on some people who were saying, like, no, it's a smokescreen. They're having other issues. Though I note that aspect of the interview in regards to this production update because the one thing, though, is regardless of, and I have no reason that I would doubt George's statement, that yes, that is exactly why they had that game pulled from that show, the code is still so basic compared to where they've been lately. It's a big complaint I'm hearing from a lot of people. So you're like, this game should have been delayed a lot more, regardless of the queen. Like, why is this out right now when I've heard all sorts of rumors, like it's the licensors, it's not approving, It's not the programmers at Stern that are behind. It's the licensor green-lighting everything. It's just super tedious. But regardless, it's like, I mean, when you hear of our latest triple drain, when they're joking about, yeah, you have the Dr. No Pro, and then you can't even choose Dr. No in the game. He's not flexible yet. That's ironic. It's like, I just, this is, I still think this goes down. I don't think it goes down as a bad game for Stern, but it goes down as probably their worst reveal in a really long time. And that may have been all out of their control, but it still reflects on them. I would agree on that, and I would jump on the back of that and say that you're right. The code is early. You're so right. It's so early that I'm like, I ain't got a start ship because there's not much in it to start.
    71:42
    It's super fast, but, yeah, the code is just not there. It's just not there. and I can tell on the bright side here this is going to be a Batman 66 type of game. There are a shitload of things that they're going to code to do. This is going to have a slow burn. I think the trajectory of this is going to be very positive because it is going to be a full, full journey of a game in my opinion. Because people are already saying they're not fast ball times. They're in the moderate ball time range as was Batman 66. And with what they have laid out on the play field and laid out in the animations that they do provide, you can tell this is going to be a full, full, long saga of a game, I think. Yeah, I wouldn't be concerned about the code eventually getting there. We're a long time away from the Wheel of Fortune days. I was just going to say, there are plenty of examples, more towards the latter period of the DMD era, where a lot of games were really turning out with pretty basic early code, but they all got there. It's just there's so many things to do on the play field insert-wise. Like if every mode, as they've presented as such, because there's like one quote-unquote mode of a henchman, one mode coded or two modes coded of one of the specters, one mode or two modes of the weapon, but they're all like modes. So just based on that principle, there's going to be like 30 modes in this game. That's a lot of modes. But it's fun to shoot. It's a damn fun shooter. But, yeah, I'll have to get more time on the premium LA because I know it's going to slow the ball down quite a bit. And based on my experience on the pro so far, I may welcome that. that left shot of the opto spinner to the ramp and the flow around that's the shot of that layout there it's like Stranger Things but better it's like that left shot it's really really good Gomez likes that left orbit to something else whether it's a saucer or whether it's another ramp that's the shot of the game there what else do we want to talk about we can talk about awards season. There's some updates as we've been continually keeping you listeners updated on the awards season of the year for pinball. We know the Twippy Awards. We're trying to find a co-host to co-host with Emoto. They asked Christian Line, per the Saps podcast, and Christian Line declined as well. So a running list of people declining to co-host the show. And they did find one. Todd Tucky is going to be co-hosting with Emoto. It's PDF. So we've got a duo. We're ready to go now for the Twippies. And then regarding the Pinball Industry Awards, we're doing another – we've got a meeting coming up, so more information to come on that. But I'm getting really excited about that. I'm getting excited. Well, you do like celebrating pinball. I like celebrating pinball, and I like making moves forward. I like adding.
    74:58
    When we get longer, bigger projects like this every year, I don't like to be in a rut. I think I speak for the PIA group when we're always every year looking to advance, whether that advancement is something dynamic or something more objectively clean. Our goal is to celebrate pinball cleaner, bigger, and better each and every year. And some of the things that we're looking to implement this year, I think, are very exciting to me and are very fresh. And I'm reinvigorated as to the direction that we're trying to go to celebrate those who helped create pinball. Damn, that was like a political podium statement there. Yeah, you said clean so much. I thought you were going to announce that Windex was sponsoring this year. I'm just trying not to downplay production because, goddammit, I love production. And I think everything awards should be highly produced or should be done so in a way that includes a lot of people. So I'm trying to say clean because, you know, it should be nice. We're giving awards away. Crystals. We're giving crystals away, Dennis. And the best way to clean those crystals is with Windex cleaning products. No, cut all that part out until Winix gets the sock check. That's right. Just don't use it on your Invisiglass. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, don't do that. Oh, I wonder if multimorphic P3 games have Invisiglass. They don't come standard, do they?
    76:35
    I don't think, you know, I'm not going to say because I don't want to get corrected. I don't know if they do or not. I don't know. I'm not going to look it up right now. What I do know is that the P3 system now has another dedicated game. This time, for the first time, dedicated as a console. It's not a console. Module. Module, thank you. Another module, a new module by a first-time third-party company or third-party creator. The game is called Drained and is by Nick Baldrige, announced I think a week or two ago. So it's based on a, well, let's see how bad I can mess this up. It's a vampire-themed kind of thing? Yep. Yep, vampires. Okay. And it's based, it's a more single-level approach to a model? Very EM, actually. Very EM style. Gobblehole Incorporated. True gobblehole. A lot of, it's a symmetrical module. Oh, you love symmetry. Which is, symmetry was very common in the, no, symmetry's not my strong suit. Lots of stand-up targets, some drop targets, got an actual knocker, physical knocker, physical bell that rings. Oh, that's badass. I like that. So, again, lots of things from the EM era. Okay. I like that. I think that the Buffalo Pinball crew did a live reveal. I haven't been able to watch it yet. A live reveal of gameplay, right? Yes, they did. Okay.
    78:01
    Any thoughts, additions to this release? I know that you're in connection with Nick Baldrige here and there, and he is a sweet, nice fellow. He's reached out and I've discussed and talked with him as well. I love that he took this project on. He is a very project-driven person. I mean, this is not his first P3 game. He's done several others, and he's also done other homebrews. Like his multi-bingo, I think, is probably the homebrew a lot of people first associated with him.
    78:29
    You know, it's interesting. I was, this is the first time we've seen that, as you noted, a third-party module. So I'm curious about, like, how that was going to go. And, I mean, from the way it seems, it's truly third-party. Like, he set up a company. He's got to handle the product. Like, P3 signed off on this is all valid to work with our system and everything. And they're involved when you want to get the software to be able to run it. But you do the order through his site, Nick's site, to actually purchase the module, which I believe are $3,500 for the module, which Tony, my co-host with Eclectic Gamers Podcast, had looked and said that's the same price as the Weird Al module. Oh, that makes me... Okay, all right. I have an opinion on that. Okay.
    79:16
    There's some cool stuff that Nick is doing. I just like the concept alone that a third party is ballsy enough to make a module for this platform. I think that is a move in the right direction. I'm curious if it will inspire other people to do modules. Like if they were on the fence about how practical is it and stuff, and Nick, I'm not going to volunteer. Nick is going to explain to everyone. Here's how he wants to walk everyone through it. But he's very supportive of the platform. So it doesn't surprise me that regardless of intention, that it will serve as a motivating factor for a lot of people that maybe were thinking that this could be a good option because it saves them a whole lot of other, like you're not having to build the entire pinball machine yourself and such. I think it could go both ways It could be motivating to get into it if this thing does sell It could be demotivating Is that even a word demotivating Yeah sure I remember the old demotivational posters. My favorite one was the one with the eagle soaring in the mountains. And you love eagles, so I bring you that up. And it was titled Leadership. And then beneath it, it said, leaders are like eagles. We don't have either of them here.
    80:30
    That's a harsh one. All of them were harsh. That's why they were called demotivational. Poor Eagly. People could be demotivated to try their own module out if, in fact, it falls flat on its face sales-wise. But how would they know? I mean, unless Nick goes public with the numbers, they won't necessarily know, will they? I think we know just loosely if the game does well or not. I mean, like, I don't know how many people own rocks for P3, for example. I have no context or sense of it. Okay, well, here's my thought on Drained. That was nice. There are things I like about it.
    81:09
    Maybe this is so highbrow that I'm not supposed to understand it. Maybe. You don't understand vampires? I don't know what the fuck is going on. I don't get this. I don't. None of it makes sense. And I always feel like I'm the ass of a joke when I come in and people are using memes that I don't understand and I'm behind because I'm old. what the fuck is this game? I don't know. It's a orbit and a scoop? I don't know what this game is, and I don't think it looks fun, and I don't know why time was spent making it. A nice little dad works late. We'll treat ourselves a bit. At Olive Garden. Ooh, breadsticks. It's a chance for us to catch up. So we've got donuts still in the picture? Maybe. Enjoy Olive Garden's new chicken crostata. Grilled marinated chicken breast with our tomato alfredo sauce. Orton steak crostata. Grilled steak medallions with a four cheese dog. Both with crispy asiago cheese crostatas and a lemon salad and breadsticks. So, is this serious? Yeah. This is seriously good. I feel like I'm just not understanding something. So, this could be on me. I just fucking don't get it. That's my take.
    82:28
    So, email me. enlighten me I respect the hell out of Nick I respect this process and decision to go in this direction to do something as a third party I love that Multimorphic has a group of people that are very supportive but I don't get this product at $500 I just don't get this product that's my take it's a loop, it's a fucking loop
    83:00
    At Olive Garden, sauce is the soul. It turns lasagna into a classic-o. It's what takes you on a tour of Italy and chicken and shrimp carbonara to the next level. Our amazing sauces, made from scratch every day. And they all pair perfectly with our never-ending first course. That's always on us. Olive Garden, we're all family here. Oh, so do you not get the game or you don't get the module? I don't get the design. I don't. Well, Nick's design philosophy is very, I'm going to say, I almost want to say avant-garde, but obviously this is a throwback to an older style. But all of Nick's games, and this is my take on it, is he has a game philosophy or a type of game that he really likes that I do not think is mainstream. Okay. Would be how I would describe it. So, like, case in point. So the very first game, this one's not publicly available, but one that he developed for himself, the first one I was aware of that he worked on for the P3 was based off of the point-and-click adventure Quest for Glory. And because he based it on that game, if I recall, the base default settings of it are you got one ball, and you could save your progress just like the game, but if you drained the ball and you hadn't saved, you'd have to start over, and the only real way to – Yeah, no, it's an interesting idea, but you see, it's pretty out there, though, compared to normal. And maybe that's where this is relying. Pretty out there. In the rules. And so, and then, you know, he did Ranger in the Ruins, which is roguelike, which, again, is a video game concept that we don't really see in pinball. And then he had the, what, Silver Falls, which, to me, I always refer to it as, like, The Sims. It's, like, the home building genre, again, a video game-inspired thing. And this one, in a lot of ways to me, made the most sense compared to traditional pinball because it's pulling from how you would play EM, like wood rail EM games. Obviously, it's using P3 screen for you to – but, I mean, I didn't watch the live stream yet. Yeah, I didn't see it. Because I wasn't able to watch when it was live. But based off of what I understand, you know, they have these targets for – indicating for you to slay a vampire. You hit those targets, and then that is what activates the vampire battle mode. and then you just have to complete some indicated shots to do that. And then once you've done that, you shoot for the gobble hole and that's what kills the vampire. So conceptually, that all makes sense to me. I know there's supposed to be rewards that you get by shooting the back parts of the module and stuff. Obviously, the module has a sleigh and vampire stuff, but he's got items incorporated, which again, kind of a video game concept there where you would often gather up items in order to accomplish your... I'm wondering maybe, you know, there were some items incorporated in Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. I don't know if he's implemented them the same way, but, you know, we've seen a little bit of like, that's all like video. So he's blending video game and sort of Woodrail EM together, I think. Okay. And maybe the genius lies in the rules and the code, because I'm just reacting based on visually what I've seen in the art and the layout, and that I don't understand. But then again, you know, look at TNA. TNA's a bad example because he did the Dineshi lock which is original can't even use that I don't know the design makes any regular EM look like a fucking Wizard of Oz at Olive Garden nobody loves Alfredo quite like we do we make it from scratch so you can enjoy it for twirls or dips with our one of a kind Alfredo the possibilities are endless like there's nothing going on in this game now in terms of like kinetic satisfaction, if you want that phrase. My guess is the way this module is structured is it's designed to allow you to actually sweep and hit targets, like sweepable targets, which some people like. That's cool. That's the big selling point of Quicksilver that I always hear is the sweepable, you know, having like a sweepable drop bank and stuff. So he's laid it out, as I understand it, so that you have this sort of sweepable symmetrical design. So that's where I think he's thinking the kinetic satisfaction is supposed to come from, plus the immersion through having an actual old-timey bell, an actual old-timey knocker. The knocker's not just firing on, like, replay. It actually is used in the game. So that's what I think it's going for. Obviously, the price point is very high when you consider that it's tied with the most expensive module from the first-party lineup. Does he sell more than 10 units? I don't know. Okay. I don't see how. I mean, I don't. There are a lot of people that are in on P3 now because they bought Weird Al's. And my theory, I share this on Eclectic Gamers, is that whether or not they're skeptical of the gameplay, like they're not sure that they'll like it or not, I do think there will be a quantity of P3 people that will buy this game either just to support P3 stuff in general or because they want to feel like they have more and more value in the system. Because the system is pricey. So, you know, if there aren't a lot of games for your – Yeah, well, if you have a game console and it doesn't have a lot of games out, you might feel like you need to buy all of the games in order to feel like you get your full value out of the product. Yeah, and there's nothing to say that Multimorphic doesn't come out with an additional game add-on that utilizes this module.
    88:28
    You know, that's curious. I wonder how that, I mean, I guess another, that's interesting. You know, I never thought, like, could they, I'm sure they could talk to Nick. I wonder what the rules are, I guess, is the thing. I guess as long as you sell the module, anyone's allowed, you know, as long as Nick sells the module to someone, I think anyone could develop their own software. Oh, that is interesting. You see another third party makes another game using this layout. Or, this would be really interesting, if there was a first party game that Multimorphic put out that uses a third party module, I don't know if they would ever go that route. But, you know, the creativity on all the options that can happen is, I think, pretty interesting. Or do you think that a third party making it for this third party module would then have to pay royalties to every module? That's interesting. You know, and that's where I have no idea. My initial guess would be no. My initial guess is because anyone who wants that third party game, they've got to buy Nick's module. Yeah, yeah. So he's got to make money on the modules. Yeah. What were you going to say about the art? I thought it was an interesting style. I really saw it in the trailer. I did see people online. That's where I've seen the most criticism, actually, was of the art. I actually think it's kind of cool looking. Okay. I like it because it looks like, and I'm just a fan of, like, ink traced. I like pointillism, but ink stroke style art as well. In fact, I cannot remember the name right now, but I'd mentioned my enjoyment of pointillism years ago, and Christopher Franchi actually sent me a message, and he linked me an artist that does pinstroke-style art. He did a whole lot of political cartoons and stuff, but really cool style. This reminds me of that. But I'm into that weird, like, grayscale-style art. I remember one time, actually for the Pinball Industry Awards, I sent in my photo, and it was in black and white, and George Fisher was like, no more black and white photos from people, guys. I'm like, oh, but it's artsy. It's artsy. He didn't agree. That's how I see the world, shades of gray. Yeah, the artwork to me, it didn't like. Well, the colors don't pop because there's not very much color. The game wasn't. And you want the colors to pop. It wasn't humblable to me. But then again, like for me, the art's the least of my concern when it comes to this. But I will give you guys an update once I get some time on watching the gameplay video. And I may be a believer. Hell, this might be something that makes me want to buy the entire damn platform. Who knows? I doubt it.
    90:59
    Chicago Gaming is in the news because they are trickling out more Cactus Canyon LEs. Trickle, trickle, trickle. Thank God. And I only know that because I've received mine. But Ryan White from CQC was coming down to the Cincinnati show, and he was like, hey I can bring one of our proto-Ellies that have been making the rounds at different shows he said or I may be able to squeeze you on an Ellie if you're willing to unbox it for this show and I said you know what yeah sure I'll and I'll keep that one so I'll take the plays and I thought he's there so if anything's not right out of the box he can fix it so yeah so they are trickling out they're slow though I think you're going to start seeing that ramp up in the next two weeks two weeks, two weeks, two weeks, we're going to start saying it. But the bulk of them went to Planetary Pinball because they are the rights holder. Yes. So I think they probably, if I had to guess, they probably only shipped or produced 25. Oh, okay. Yeah, so not many. I think probably the majority of those went to Planetary, customers.
    92:06
    And also from Chicago Gaming, I found this very interesting. TPN's very own Pinball Party podcast with Jason, had on guest Cale Hernandez, who made a very strong, just a matter-of-fact statement that perked my ears. He said that the next game coming from Chicago Gaming, the next remake, is going to be Twilight Zone.
    92:33
    And they even, Jason Stoffman was like, are you good with me running with it? And he said, yeah, I'm fine with it. So it sounded kind of legit.
    92:45
    Maybe I'm looking too much into it. Yeah, I mean, I just see where people would want it to be, Twilight Zone. Yeah, we know Phil Hernandez once worked with Marco Specialty, so probably has some good resources behind the scenes in the industry.
    93:01
    Twilight Zone would make a shitload of money for people because it is a classic, iconic pinball machine, a top ten of all time. When you think of pinball, what are the most iconic machines you think of? It's in there. It's a wide body, though. Yeah. But if anybody's going to make a wide body Cadmus, certainly Churchill Cadmus, I don't know what to think about this one.
    93:28
    I'd say it's possible. My non-Marco-based rumors do not indicate anything on the front of remakes after CCR. So I don't. I don't, I could maybe see them saying, you know, if we were to ever go back and do another remake, it would be Twilight Zone. Like, I could see maybe that. I don't think that another remake is a priority for the company, though, at this stage.
    93:50
    I think Rod Serling would be hard to get. Yeah, well, they can just, you know, remaster the WPC sounds. I think that Gold Earring would be hard to secure. No. Or not hard to secure. Oh, come on. They're like a one-hit wonder. That's the one song. Yeah, but they have leverage because they know the only way to remake this game is to have the rights to them. They got them kind of held over there. Their hands are tied. They have to have it. I don't know. Rod Serling, I don't know. But Twilight Zone would make a shitload of money. And on the secondary market, Twilight Zones are like at $10,000 now anyway. So that makes sense. Having a full-blown topper on Twilight Zone, which never officially had a topper from Bally Williams? Come on. I'd probably be a buyer in the same vein I'm looking for an Adams family not to play but just to collect because there's something wrong with my brain yep it's called hoarding that's what my wife says you used to see my office it is bad it's real bad you know what we are going long this episode a lot of juice a lot of nuggets man this is a packed episode Episode 118, y'all. Welcome. And because the folks over at Spooky Pinball had the most low-key reveal of all time of a pinball machine of such grand IP proportions, I'm going to attempt the following, Dennis, for pinball market trends. I'm going to attempt to spooky pinballize it. I present to you the low-key pinball market trends.
    95:36
    Trending up this week, ladies and gentlemen, is spooky pinball. We've got to give it to them. They came in. They dropped their big mic on the table. They presented us with one of the greatest intellectual properties and themes to enter the industry of pinball. They did so with a ho-hum attitude in a small convention setting. as if it didn't really matter. They just wanted to be here to support other pinball people. They're confident with what they're producing, so they didn't have to jazz up their revealed teaser at all.
    96:09
    That painstakingly drives a stake into my heart, similar to that of the geometry and concept design of Drained by Nick Baldrige. This is fitting there, isn't it? But I think it kind of worked. Those son of a bitches. I like razzle dazzle. They brought none of it. They just gave you what you wanted to hear. And teased you with what you want to see in the future. And they may pay off.
    96:36
    Turning down this week, Dennis. It's low key. It is what it is. It's just a matter of fact. And the fact is, the last couple weeks here on podcast, it's become very apparent to me that pinball is hard, sure. But math is hard.
    96:53
    Wow. math is just, math is tough and advanced levels of math I get, those are rather difficult I heard a podcast talking about how far they got in math and stuff I started getting tripped up at calculus 1 in college that was my nut kicker but prior to that, basic equations and algebra like Gene Simmons looked it up when it comes to podcasters though math we gotta go back to the shit guys second grade here on a recent episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast Facebook live stream as well as the podcast I've heard on five occasions now him screaming him proclaiming him setting the narrative that at the Twippies last year he has no competition to win for best podcaster because he easily gets three times the amount of votes whether they're paid for or not than any other podcaster in the pinball industry.
    97:55
    If that's true, number one, it's fucking sad. Number two, if true, it is what it is. Numbers don't lie. I'm another podcaster, so I may not like it if he had three times the votes or popularity, but it is what it is. I'd have to suck up my bottom lip and deal with it. I'm a man. I'm 40. Not 40 yet. It's a reference to the old sports thing. Follow me here, people. The problem is, Kaneda, is that numbers don't lie. Second grade math is not hard.
    98:28
    The numbers are on the Twibby's website. Last year you received 30% of the vote, which was the majority of the winner. The winner got 30%, you got 30%. No one's repeating that. Nicely done. Second place was the pinball show. The pinball show received 18% of the votes. It's nowhere near triple the amount of votes, much less two times the amount of votes. Just as a correction, because math is hard, there weren't even two times that of the vote getting. But I don't. Okay. That's enough. I thought you were going to talk about the Triple Drain podcast. I really struggled with how much code is in James Bond. And there was a lot of it. It was shocking. Guys, it was shocking. I think it might have been Tom Grapp on the show who said, math is hard. in response to this back and forth between Travis and Joel. Yes. Like, is this scripted? What is this? This is so, yeah, it was like. Poor Travis was right. Joel almost convinced him that he was wrong.
    99:32
    Because Joel says things with such conviction. I mean, he's probably responsible for like 30%, see what I did there? 30% of the sales of Persuasion Flippers.
    99:43
    Because he's just convinced, he's so convincing. My point to take away with all this, I know math is hard, but then again, setting narratives may be easy. Deal of the week this week is from Flippin' Out Pinball. It's a Mandalorian Pro we have pre-owned. This thing ain't selling, so I've got to keep dropping it. I'm not seeing one in the five. I'm going to do a $58.99. Bye, bye, bye. Come get it. Wow.
    100:08
    Now let me ask you, now that my ears are perked up. So for $58.99, will you install the Baby Yoda mod? So you'll leave his little baby hand? No, that's like a $300 mod. I have one I haven't installed in my own game because I don't have time. The instructions are like only 18 pages long. Back to the hoarding. It's in my office somewhere. In the pile of mods.
    100:33
    I'm like Scrooge McDuck of mods in my office. You're stepping over UPS boxes everywhere. every morning you get up and you have that stripy one piece bathing suit and you jump into your pile of insider connected yes absolutely and instead of gold coins spitting on my mouth they're precision flippers see I'm doing it now deal of the week this week was Mandalorian Pro 5899 email me if you want to make use of that deal that is a cash offer come think about it I do have a deal of the what in God's name. The deal of the WCF this week is I don't need to say much. Go to Pennside. Find a creature. It's like a bajillion dollars, and it's ugly, and it's not well done. It says restored. It's a fucking joke. And I simply, in the forum discussion, wrote to this individual, and my reply stated, Sincerely, thank you for this for sale ad. Thank you. So go check that out. It was hilarity and sadness all wrapped in one, somewhat similar to 30% of you voting in the Twippies.
    101:48
    Bye, bye, bye! That's it, Dennis. Where can people catch you? I can always reach out to my Eclectic Gamers podcast email, which is eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. There's a messenger tool. You can use that. And I monitor those both fairly regularly. Sweet. You can catch me at the pinballnetwork at gmail.com. Watch straight down the middle of the video series. Anything you can email us there at sdtmpinball at gmail.com.
    102:19
    Patreon maybe is coming for the pinball show. I don't know. I have no clue. We'll see what 2023 has to bring to us. We have some exciting stuff next year. Sponsor of this show is Flippin' Out Pinball. product showcase this week is... Is this Star Wars Home Edition? Take your pick. Do you like the Purdy comic or the OG movie artwork? Regardless, it makes for one of the greatest and most affordable pinball machines and Christmas gifts this holiday season. Sure, the price is $49.99. That's fine. But who else do you know in this industry that's going to give you free shipping? Hell, I'll shave a little bit of money off if you pick it up at the terminal. Let's get that thing under your tree this year. and now that I say that I can't picture that big box under a Christmas tree. But it's symbolic. You know what I mean. We've got a lot of machines in stock right now, both new and used. Some of the titles are going fairly quickly, such as Rush. The fourth quarter Rush on sales on Rush. I think I'm out of premiums. I'm down to like one pro.
    103:22
    Mando's picked up quite a bit. Still have some Star Wars if you need some Star Wars. We've got those. We've got Led Zeppelin. We've got Toy Story 4, both CE and LE in stock. We have Guns N' Roses still, LEs. I think we're going to see that drift up. I sold a couple of GNR LEs this weekend at Cincinnati. So, nicely done there. Guardians of the Galaxies are gone. You guys keep asking me for those now that they're gone. What the hell? It's a good game. And for those who were at the Cincinnati show, did you guys ask me about my topper? Some of the people will know that reference since because we teased an upcoming topper that Flippin' Out Pinball may be responsible for exclusively offering. It was on top of the Guardians of the Galaxy pin at the show. Did you hear about that? Nope. It was a super widescreen type of monitor that played clips from Guardians of the Galaxy. It was really awesome. It's clear. It's beautiful. It got a lot of people talking. A lot of people thinking, wait a minute, that looks pretty badass. Is it $2,000 like some of the other toppers on the market? And I was like, no, we're gauging interest right now to see if people would like these on their machines because they're pretty universal. You can put them on any Stern machine. You can put them on Valley Williams machines. They look really dynamic, and they're much cheaper than a lot of toppers on the, like a Guardian's topper right now, $2,500 on a secondary market all day long. It's a plastic topper. My monitor that shows awesome favorite clips from the film, I'm going to try to get under $1,000. Buy, buy, buy! So keep your eye out on that. We'll have that on the website possibly soon if we go through with that. But a really cool product that serves a lot of purposes. I had advertisements at shows and stuff. I had advertisements on the monitor for flipping out. Then it would show the beautiful Star-Lord, and then it would cut back. Just endless possibilities for this product because you can help create your own content via USB, SD card, HDMI.
    105:22
    It's pretty cool stuff. So be on the lookout for that. TPN, last week we had a lot of stuff. I'm not by my computer. I'm on location, so I can't check my notes. Neither can I tell you what's coming up. Some cool stuff's coming up.
    105:37
    Pinballers have something coming up, 12 Days of Christmas. Check that out. I believe it's on December 10th. Why I'm using neurons in my brain for that is because there's something wrong with me. But beneficial to TPN and to all of you listeners. For Dennis Creasel, ho, ho, ho, motherfuckers, I'm Zach Minney. That's right. And remember, with Scooby-Doo Pinball coming out soon, they're going to be as pinball famous as those Olive Garden breadsticks.
    106:01
    And always practice safe pinball. Like, hey, Scoob, put down the fucking Scooby Snacks and pick up a calculator. That is hard. Oh, my God. I sure hope it doesn't turn out like Expo. What sort of security do you guys have? Well, we have this trash can. We have this rope. Dave Ficks made a fucking scarecrow. Hey, they're already sold out at the hotel, so that solved my problem for getting pressured into going to Expo next year. I didn't even know they were open. Warm up this season with Olive Garden's oven-baked pastas, like our new ravioli carbonara. And for the gift that keeps on giving, there's our never-ending first course, which is always on us. Plus, you can share the holiday cheer with our catering. Olive Garden. We're all family here.