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The Pinball Show Ep 7: TWIPY Reactions & The Battle Of Pinball Prognostication

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 23m·held·Mar 30, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Twippies Awards 2019 post-mortem: broadcast critique, industry COVID updates, and award category structure debate.

Summary

The The The Pinball Show episode 7 features hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel (with Ken Cromwell) discussing reactions to the 2019 Twippies Awards ceremony held amid COVID-19 lockdowns. The episode covers industry updates from Jersey Jack, American Pinball, and Stern, then pivots to detailed analysis of Twippies Awards broadcast—its technical execution with remote green screen hosting, controversial acceptance speech from Canada's A A Pinball Podcast winner, and debates over award category structure (especially Rookie of the Year and its popularity-vote bias). The hosts praise Lord of the Rings of the Rings cameo and discuss how podcast recognition has become disproportionately central to the ceremony.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball is proceeding with its move to Illinois while adhering to COVID restrictions.

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg reporting Jack Guarnieri statement during industry news segment

  • Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory was nominated for multiple Twippies Awards including sound, theme, callouts, rules, artwork, and gameplay.

    high confidence · Jersey Jack Pinball update mentioning the game's nomination sweep

  • American Pinball production is temporarily halted but software team is polishing Hot Wheels code while working from home.

    high confidence · Brian Kosner/Kaz relaying Michael Grant's statement in American Pinball update

  • Stern released Elvira's House of Horror Code Update V.93 with new video clips, scoring modes, and light show.

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reporting from Stern News correspondent role

  • Twippies Awards 2019 was 90 minutes long and hosted remotely by Cary Hardy and Emoto Harney using green screen technology.

    high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discussing the ceremony's technical execution

  • Over 1,000 people were watching Twippies Awards live stream.

    high confidence · Zach Minney citing viewership numbers during audience discussion

  • Canada's A A Pinball Podcast won the People's Choice Award for Best Podcast for the third consecutive year.

    high confidence · Dennis Creasel and hosts discussing Canadian A Pinball Podcast three-peat win

  • Flip N Out Pinball has not been streaming for approximately 10 months before the podcast category, which started about a year ago.

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell stating they started streaming channel ~10 months prior and Zach noting weekly streaming commitment

  • The The The Pinball Show team (Zach Minney, Ken Cromwell, and Dennis Creasel) all placed in the top three for podcast nominations.

Notable Quotes

  • “All I've got to say is all right, all right, all right.”

    Zach Minney @ ~2:30 — Matthew McConaughey reference setting tone for Twippies discussion and joking about Lincoln commercial cameo

  • “It was very, if I'm being transparent, it was bittersweet for me to sit and watch it, knowing that I helped create this thing that is now off to college without me, and I can't make it peanut butter and jelly sandwiches anymore.”

    Zach Minney @ ~8:00 — Reveals Zach's role in creating the Twippies and his emotional distance from the event

  • “Green screens are tough... we're beyond a green screen... nobody would know the difference it's all audio anyway.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~12:00 — Commentary on the technical challenges of the remote-hosted Twippies broadcast and why they won't use green screen for their podcast

  • “I wish it would have been live like even when they said it was pre-recorded that was one of the things I was like man like there's just something about you know the mistakes that are being made and just rolling with the punches it just feels more immersive when everything is live.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~15:00 — Preference for live broadcast authenticity over pre-recorded production value

  • “Sean Astin. That was a great surprise. I really liked that. That was the highlight for me.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~20:00 — Lord of the Rings actor cameo identified as ceremony's best moment by multiple hosts

  • “It's not really a love of podcasting that drives the attention to that category. It's that one of the most prolific podcasters in the hobby is controversial, and controversy drives attention.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~35:00 — Analysis of why podcast category dominance reflects Canada's Pinball Podcast's controversial appeal rather than category importance

  • “I would have structured things very, very differently... I would be doing preferential rank voting so people could... you had instances scenarios where things like slap save didn't make it in and a lot of people were like well slap save was my number two or number three podcast.”

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonKen CromwellpersonJack GuarnieripersonCary HardypersonEmoto HarneypersonSean AstinpersonMichael GrantpersonJoe Schoberperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: 2019 Twippy Awards broadcast remotely via green screen with Kerry Hardy and Emoto Harney in separate locations; pre-recorded format with live chat participation; reported technical clipping issues and 90-minute runtime felt longer than previous year

    high · Detailed discussion of green screen technical challenges, duration complaints, comparison to prior year live ceremony at TPF event

  • ?

    community_signal: Canada's Pinball Podcast acceptance speech sparked significant online discussion; described as controversial roasting approach in award acceptance context, with concerns about tone misalignment with stated award ceremony values of inclusion

    high · Multiple hosts acknowledging 'controversial acceptance speech,' discussion of five-minute video 'bashing people,' Dennis's concern about tone relative to Jeff Patterson's known inclusive design philosophy

  • ?

    product_concern: Pinball manufacturers halted production due to COVID-19 lockdowns (Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Stern); some staff working from home on software; resumption tied to government lifting restrictions

    high · Jersey Jack update re: move proceeding with COVID restrictions; American Pinball update: 'production temporarily on hold'; Stern correspondent: 'most pinball production has ground to a halt due to coronavirus pandemic'

  • ?

    code_update: Stern released Elvira's House of Horror Code Update V.93 featuring new video clips, new scoring modes, and new light show; described as 'robust release' for one of Stern's best 2019 titles

    high · Craig Bobby reporting: 'robust release of Code Update V.93 for all makes and models. Yes, the new code features many new video clips, new scoring modes, and a fantastic new light show'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.250

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome to episode number seven of the Pinball Show, exclusively on the Pinball Network. We are going to do our best to keep you informed and entertained here as we talk about pinball. Obviously, that's the podcast. Before we do that, let's check in with Zach and Dennis. Dennis Creasel, Zach Menny, what's going on, guys? How are you? The trio is back together. This feels so good. You guys watch the Twippies? That's all everybody's talking about right now. Is that? I thought everyone was sleeping it off. The Twippy Hangover started today. Twipover. And some people will have worse hangovers than others, which became very apparent as that night went on last night. Really?
1:07
It was an interesting Twippies, to say the least. We'll cover that, I guess, in the top story this week. But how are you two doing? Dennis, what have you been up to? Cromwell? I've just been working, Zach. That's all I do anymore. no man did you get an assistant yet no no no though we are uh we we have seen some outside groups offer to step it up a little bit a lot of research organizations can't work on their projects right now because of coronavirus so they are volunteering to start assisting far more in some deliverables regarding government response to all these isolation and quarantine orders and things of that nature so i've been involved with a lot of that and it does look like some of our philanthropies are going to be injecting some funding though most of that funding will benefit the governments as they should on their response but i might get me a little slice hopefully you get a vacation soon i know cromwell's been bunkered down in chicago cromwell you had not only the covid stuff going on but you guys had some really horrible storms up there too yeah it's been a really weird time it's like uh not cataclysmic events as of yet but it's like one thing after another. As far as sheltering in place, I've been doing that since 14 years ago, it seems, when my son was born. So I'm just kind of used to being in the home and in the subdivision, and we're making do. But I have been fighting off a head cold, which I'm not going to lie. In the beginning, I had a little bit of concerns of, oh my gosh, am I potentially coming down with something? And I am, but it's subsiding now, and it's not anything that was serious, thankfully, to the best of my knowledge. So sigh of relief. Sounds like you're incubating some corona over there to me. No, no, I don't believe that that's the case. But, you know, it's interesting because you want to make sure that everybody's being safe. And you've heard all the PSAs, so we don't need to go there necessarily. But be healthy, everybody. We shouldn't send out an email like every other bank and everybody that sends me emails. We take the coronavirus very seriously. Oh, if I get another email. I'm like, look, I get my underwear from you guys. I don't need to know what your stance is on the coronavirus. I'm good. Fruit of the loom. back off yeah you know what i think it is though like if the company doesn't do that then it looks like they're not being sensitive to the issue so i think a lot of it's just kind of public relations it is welcome to 2020 i yeah i didn't get an email from flipping out so i think they're probably pretty insensitive to this current crises you know what you start something like that and there'll be a thread now on pin side about it to keep it kind of on that theme do you have any games available that you're able to sell still or have you sold them all out because i've been hearing some people have been bored and buying up games and then of course we know the manufacturers aren't currently building so it really has been mixed now we have been lucky that um we've been able to get some games from manufacturers um and we've got a good inventory right now we've got some some pre-owned stuff so no actually it's been mixed i've i've seen some people not buying but some people buying because of it. So hopefully it'll balance itself out. But I don't know what's to come. It's too early, I think, to tell. I mean, under the circumstances, I have Steve Beattie's Lord of the Rings here in the studio. And with the shelter-in-place order, I'm not really in a position for him to come pick this up or for me to kind of drop it back off. But what I did do is I recently installed a pin soundboard in Lord of the Rings, and I installed a bunch of different audio mixes and that Wooly mix is in there. man Lord of the Rings is an incredible game on its own but when you really are able to kind of get that pin sound board and have these different audio mixes installed the game comes to life in a way in which I had not anticipated it's unbelievable and I'm a big pin sound guy that's not an ad for pin sound my thoughts are my own thoughts but I've always been a supporter of the product it's it's it's pretty incredible so if you have a pin sound board lying around and you've not taken that extra step to install it in one of your games now is as good a time as any to experiment with that board because I'm having a lot of fun with Lord of the Rings right now. And we've got to give a lot of credit to Howard Shore as well, the composer of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. That music, because you don't get that off the White Star board. You don't get that audio. So when you pull in that audio from the motion pictures, it's some of the greatest film composition, in my opinion, ever made. So that screams for a Penn Sound board. I agree with you. That's like having Samwise in your Twippy Award itself. That was a highlight of that damn show for me. Oh, Sean Astin. Two years back-to-back where we get some Lord of the Rings slash Hobbit cameos. Bob can do no wrong to me. Well, listen, we're going to get into the Twippies, but first, let's cover some of the industry news. You guys ready? Let's do it. Oh, I can add this again.

high confidence · Hosts acknowledging all three were nominated in top three for podcasts category

  • Zach Minney created Twippies Awards Awards concept and has stepped back from direct involvement.

    high confidence · Zach expressing that Twippies Awards are 'off to college without me' and describing bittersweet feelings about his creation's evolution

    • Zach Minney @ ~50:00 — Critique of first-past-the-post voting methodology in People's Choice categories, advocating for ranked-choice alternatives

  • “I'm really torn on how that played out, right? So I did not like it, and not the part where criticizing the... it has a bit of a sore winner vibe. Most people don't take acceptance speeches to gloat.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~58:00 — Criticism of Canada's Pinball Podcast acceptance speech tone and roasting approach at awards ceremony

  • “I was glad that he knows how to edit... his chris's acceptance was really long and then carrie's riff against chris after that made it... I was looking at my watch.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~68:00 — Commentary on disproportionate screen time and pacing issues in ceremony's Game of the Year segment

  • “There's some upsets, but that was the moment, and people are heralding it. I mean, they loved that there was a five-minute video, you know, kind of bashing people.”

    Zach Minney @ ~42:00 — Reference to controversial acceptance speech video that generated significant online discussion post-ceremony

    • Lyman F. Sheats Jr.
    person
    Jeff Pattersonperson
    Ken Rudbergperson
    Brian Kosnerperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Canada's Pinball Podcastorganization
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    The Pinball Showorganization
    Twippies Awardsevent
    Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factorygame
    Elvira's House of Horrors (Premium/LE)game
    Hot Wheelsgame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts express ambivalence about Rookie of the Year category structure; debate whether popularity-vote approach vs. preferential ranking better reflects community values; Dennis questions if category should exist given 2019's weak rookie class

    high · Extended debate on voting methodology, Zach proposing ranked-choice voting, discussion of Slap Save not making top three despite being many people's #2 or #3 pick

  • ?

    industry_signal: Podcast category has become one of the largest highlights of Twippy Awards despite being added later; hosts debate whether this reflects genuine value or primarily driven by Canada's Pinball Podcast's controversial profile and resulting media attention

    high · Zach: 'Best podcast has become one of the biggest highlights... bigger than Best Light Show'; Dennis: 'controversy drives attention' to the category; discussion of podcast media category pitching to Jeff as recognition for journalists/streamers/YouTubers

  • ?

    business_signal: Flippin' Out Pinball has maintained game inventory during COVID-19 lockdowns; report of mixed buyer behavior with some customers sheltering-in-place purchasing games while manufacturers halted production

    medium · Zach reporting: 'we have been lucky that we've been able to get some games from manufacturers... we've got a good inventory right now... it's been mixed'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Twippy Awards shifted from live in-person broadcast to pre-recorded remote format with deliberate choice to preserve some 'raw and organic' feel despite editing; aired live via Premiere platform with audience chat participation

    high · Discussion of intentional choice to keep delivery less polished, effort to create 'sense of a live show' through chat participation and Premiere broadcast; comparison concerns about losing immersion vs. production quality

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Zach Minney created Twippy Awards and has transitioned to observer role; describes award show as 'off to college without me'; expressed bittersweet feelings about not being involved in day-to-day event management

    high · Zach's extended metaphor about creation growing beyond his involvement; reflection on watching from outside rather than participating

  • ?

    content_signal: The Pinball Show team (Zach, Dennis, Ken) all nominated in top three for podcast category; Ken Cromwell's Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast specifically noted for ~10 months of streaming weekly content prior to award ceremony

    high · Hosts acknowledging all three were top three nominees; Ken citing weekly streaming commitment; speculation about what this recognition represents for weekly podcast format sustainability

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack reports significant post-lockdown demand from homebound buyers, particularly for Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory; suggests shelter-in-place driving game purchases

    medium · Ken Rudberg: 'Jack said that many homebound people have been buying Jersey Jack pinball games lately. A lot of these games have definitely been Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Pin Sound board installation in Lord of the Rings praised for significantly enhancing game experience; hosts emphasize quality of Howard Shore film composition when integrated through aftermarket audio upgrades

    high · Zach discussing Pin Sound installation: 'when you really are able to kind of get that pin sound board and have these different audio mixes installed the game comes to life in a way in which I had not anticipated it's unbelievable'

    • 5:57
    It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. During these tough times with COVID lockdowns springing up everywhere, I got in touch with Jack Guarnieri to find out how their move to Illinois is being affected by the COVID outbreak. Jack said that they are still proceeding with the move while staying in alignment with New Jersey and Illinois COVID restrictions. He wants everyone to stay safe and follow instructions of local governments. He also says he's been keeping in touch with distributors who say that many homebound people have been buying Jersey Jack pinball games lately A lot of these games have definitely been Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory which is a game that was up for several Twippy Awards this last weekend The game was up for all of the major awards including sound effects, theme, callouts, rules, artwork, and gameplay Make sure to go to the This Week in Pinball site to check out how it did For the Pinball Show, this has been your Jersey Jack Update with Ken Rudberg. Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. I reached out to Michael Grant. He let me know that production is temporarily on hold, but those that can work from home are doing so. And the website is now live with all the details and information on Hot Wheels. And he let me know that production is going to resume as soon as the governmental restrictions are lifted. I also reached out to programmer Joe Schober. He informed me that the team is polishing the software so that it shines as brightly as it can once the factory is allowed to open. So the team is still hard at work on the new games, and hopefully everything will get back to normal very soon, and they can start shipping some Hot Wheels out to locations and customers. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kosner.
    7:46
    Pandemic production problems, new code updates, and what's up next? Hey everyone, Craig here again, the pinball show's Stern News correspondent. Well, now that most pinball production has ground to a halt due to the coronavirus pandemic and barcodes everywhere have closed, beyond Stern figuring out how to clean all the Twippy Awards they won this past Saturday, there really isn't all that much going on these days over at Stern headquarters. Or is there? Hold on, all you virus conspiracy theorists. Just when all seems darkest, Stern coder extraordinaire Lyman Sheets gives Alvira's House of Horror owners a welcome light at the end of the tunnel with the robust release of Code Update V.93 for all makes and models. Yes, the new code features many new video clips, new scoring modes, and a fantastic new light show for one of Stern's best titles of 2019. Oh, and in between Netflix binge-watching or homeschooling your children, don't forget to check out Stern's new 12-minute online video about the making of another Stern classic, Stranger Things. And with the postponed release of Heavy Metal and Stern's next quarterstone title put on hold, many big questions in the month of March emerge in the wake of this world health crisis. Like, how will this change the world of pinball as we know it? Will we see any pinball-related bankruptcies? How will this change the production schedules of all pinball manufacturers? And most importantly, when will production resume? All good questions, but we shall wait and see. That's all for this week. And just remember, be safe, wash your hands after pinball, and for God's sake, keep your f***ing distance! For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    9:33
    All right, always good hearing from the correspondents here on the Pinball Show. So as the manufacturers are taking a little bit of a rest from the manufacturing side, you still have the companies that are updating code. You hear that happening in American Pinball. You hear that happening at Stern Pinball, Elvira Code just being released. But last night was a huge celebration in the hobby in general and the industry with the Twippy Awards. I think it would be fun for us to kind of give some feedback in our thoughts in a night that was highly anticipated for such a long time, especially under the current circumstances. Dennis and Zach, Twippies 2019. Let's get into it. All I've got to say is all right, all right, all right. That's pretty good McConaughey there. Not too bad. Yeah. I saw you. Driving a Lincoln. A little cameo there. Driving a Lincoln. Going to go ice fishing, even though I don't know how. So I think a lot of us were trying to figure out exactly what the approach was going to be for the Twippies. For those of you that might not know, the Twippies stands for This Week in Pinball Yearly Awards. It's something that happens every single year. this year hosted by Kerry Hardy and Emoto Harney. And we saw something that we weren't quite used to, and that was two people in two different places with the use of technology in green screens, kind of making them look like they were in the same place at the same time hosting a live show presentation. I don't know. Let's get some feedback, guys. How do you think it played out? I'm about as biased as they come, so I don't know if the listener wants to hear my opinions on the ceremony. Why would they be listening to us if they didn't want to hear your opinion, Zach? You can turn in the station right now. They like the truth about everything else I'm not associated with. But this one is a little bit close to home. I will say that it was very, if I'm being transparent, it was bittersweet for me to sit and watch it, knowing that I helped create this thing that is now off to college without me, and I can't make it peanut butter and jelly sandwiches anymore. So it was a little bittersweet. I love the celebration, though, and I always like watching, whether I'm involved or not. but I'd be interested to hear what you thought, Dennis and Ken. Well, I thought it was all right.
    11:39
    I think you could really tell the technological hurdles they were trying to deal with, given the fact that they couldn't record in the same room. And I guess in the sense of immersion, I was pulled out of that immersiveness because of those, you know, where the green screen would get clipping through the individuals. Their clothes would sometimes clip through the green screen. I don't know how else to really describe it. green screens are tough uh and i i what what do i know about green scenes next to nothing i have one in a box that came with some video editing software that i never even opened because i'm beyond a green screen we're gonna green screen a show that's what we're gonna no we're not we're never going to why not because it looks you don't get the same effect way too hard to want to try and do right we can green screen the podcast nobody would know the difference it's all audio anyway so i mean overall i thought given the the short time frame and the fact that it ended up being covidified and they could not they could not do it in person live that they worked around it in a reasonable way but i didn't think it was on the level like the lot i mean i how can you match a live show with a with pre-recorded show i think that just kind of the coronavirus just you know took that away with greg bone i mean come on well and i don't think i watched i did not watch the first year twippies live when you guys did it so i can't compare it to that i can only compare it the live show at tpf and i was just a lot more engaged by the live show than i was sitting at my computer watching it and that was probably inevitable no matter what but i mean that's my i wish it would have been live like even when they said it was pre-recorded that was one of the things i was like man like there's just something about you know the mistakes that are being made and just rolling with the punches it just feels more immersive when everything is live even if it was them split into different locations i would have liked to have seen it live Yeah, well, that's such a hurdle. Yeah, there was an effort to kind of keep it a little more raw and organic, though. You notice that not all the deliveries were as polished as they could have been, and I think that was probably intentional. You kind of get that feeling of a live show. To have it all aired on Premiere and have the audience participation with chat also kind of created a sense of you were taking part in something that was live. So I get the approach. I was one that thought it would be beneficial for them to have something that was pre-recorded, edited and uh and then live shown so you know for for that i i thought it made sense i actually agreed with the pre-recorded approach personally but i would have wanted to see it less raw and more highly scripted because of that if you're editing yeah well i'm like if you're going to do it pre-recorded i would not i would not try and emulate live i would try it'd be no we're it's going to be highly structured highly scripted in part to get the time down uh i don't remember i We were talking before we started recording how, to me, at the Twippies last year, it felt like it was an hour-long show. Zach, I believe you indicated you thought it actually went longer than that. This was 90 minutes, and I felt it. Oh, okay. What was you all's favorite moment of the whole Twippies last night? Rudy. It was? Me too. Sean Astin. That was a great surprise. I really liked that. That was the highlight for me. That was awesome. The highlight for me, I mean, and I'm just, it is what it is, to be recognized in a top three in two categories was like a highlight for me. And no, thanks, I'm not trying to say that because I'm trying to boost my own ego. No, you're proud, man. That's awesome. Extremely proud to have been recognized by those that have been supportive of some of the efforts there. So it was not anticipated. I didn't expect that. And for that, I was sincerely humbled. And that was the highlight of my evening. It was a lot of fun. So you were there, Ken, on podcast. You were in the top three of a special with Lit. Yes. And was it streaming, was it? Yes, streaming. Flipping out. Yeah. Which is crazy because we have not been streaming for, I think, 10 months, I think, is when we started that streaming channel. Well, I think that's really impressive given that's a weekly. You only stream weekly. Shows the commitment that you've put into that and the hard work you put into that. It paid off. And rightfully so, you being in that top three, Ken. You've slayed that. We all should be very proud of ourselves. All three of us, you guys, were in the top three nominations for podcasts. Yes. That's cool. And here we are all three together. I did not think of it that way. Canada's Pinball Podcast won first place for the People's Choice Award for podcasts. That wasn't a surprise. The controversial acceptance speech, if you call it that, has been making its way throughout the YouTube airwaves. Was that the moment? Was that the trophy breaking or the booing moment that we got from the live ceremony last year, the acceptance speech? Well, I can't really think of anything else that would be considered controversial, really, of the show. Sure. There's some upsets, but, yeah, I think that was the moment, and people are heralding it. I mean, they loved that there was a five-minute video, you know, kind of bashing people. Well, you know what blows my mind, right, is that so pinball is such a niche hobby, and podcasting within that niche hobby is like ultra niche, right? So like you've narrowed down the percentage of people that are really. But then that single category has kind of propelled itself to be close to the climax of the end of what celebrates pinball at the year end. and pinball podcasting is uh is holds court and and it amazes me that it does that yeah whenever these things were first developed and it was just the you know the categories of best music and sound best toys and gimmicks when i pitched that to jeff hey we need recognition for the media as well for the people who write the stories about pinball for the people who cover it in youtube videos or streaming that was my big push because i knew that when it comes to pinball in this niche hobby, a lot of people who would be consuming a ceremony or an award show such as the Twippies, they're going to want and would be interested in the peripherals of the industry as well. And I don't think you could have said it better where the best podcast has become one of the biggest highlights. I mean, it sure as a hell a lot bigger than Best Light Show. And that's crazy to even think about. Do you think that, and I'm trying to figure this out myself, and I'm looking at the numbers last night, there was generally just over 1,000 people that were watching the Twippies live. Good turnout. Yeah, absolutely. Of the 1,000 people that are there, and the reason that we're talking about this, or at least I'm bringing this up from a podcast standpoint, is because you all listening to this right now are listening to a podcast. So I'm curious, how are podcast listeners being represented in regards to the entire Twippy audience? Of the 1,000 people that were there, how many appreciated the fact that there was a podcast category? That's a good question. I don't know. Dennis, do you have any idea? No. Can you speculate? I mean, there are a lot of vocal supporters in the chat, but it only takes a few to overwhelm a chat channel with praise or disdain or whatever emotion you want. We see that on Twitch all the time. So I don't have a good sense in terms of how many. When you think about it, I would assume if you're interested enough in an award show, you're interested enough in pinball that you're probably consuming a variety of media. Exactly. What percentage of that would be podcast consumption? I don't know. I think in the case of – it's difficult to talk about a category where you're in as well because I don't want to come across like having a bias or anything because I was in for publication as well. It gets a little weird for me to talk about categories where your name's in it as well because you don't want to come across like if you have a legitimate thought or concern like being driven by sour grapes or bias or anything along those lines. It seems a little disproportionate, maybe a lot disproportionate about the attention that podcast gets. I think that's because the now three-peat winner is controversial, and that's all that really drives. It's not really a love of podcasting that drives the attention to that category. It's that one of the most prolific podcasters in the hobby is controversial, and controversy drives attention. I could see that argument. So I think that's why – I mean nothing is controversial about Light Show. There's not publication. There's no real – I mean now there was a surprise though. Holy crap. That was an upset. The point-off carnival didn't win. That was the number one shock for me of the night. Yeah. That's what kind of, looking back at what we've created here, that's what, when people argue, oh, we need this award ceremony. It doesn't need to be a people's choice. It needs to be this. I always poo-pooed and thought, no, this is all of us getting to vote. But when something happens like that, I don't know. I think coin op carnival was a good example of a piece of work in pinball that deserved even more recognition than it received even last night in the top three So I keep going back and forth now because I like the popularity vote doesn't feel good here because coin-op carnival, that's something new, something fresh. That should have been given it. Nothing that's not to take away from the juices of Loose Houston over there with Pinball Magazine. Absolutely. He does impeccable work. I get it. But this year, it was the coin-op carnival year, and it kind of saddened me when I seen that the people didn't back that.
    21:22
    Well, and again, it is a People's Choice Award, right? So a lot of it is just going to be brand awareness, and where something might have come in that's new to the hobby that deserved accolades, you're not always going to get that necessary popularity vote because the exposure isn't there. And you'll see that, too, with games being chosen, categories, podcasts, streamers, YouTubers. I mean, it is what it is. A lot of it's exposure. Rookie of the Year. I mean, let's look at Rookie of the Year. The top three nominees for Rookie of the Year, including myself and my wife, for distribution. Jack Danger for a homebrew that was arguably, was it complete, was it not complete? He did end up winning, taking home the victory for the homebrew of the year. And then there was Tim Sexton for being his first lead on a game. Yeah, it is a popularity vote. I was humbled and I was overwhelmed by my wife and I even being placed in the top three. Listeners, a home side note. If you guys would have seen her face just being listed in that top three, we cannot thank you enough. It was unbelievable. But at one point, I looked at her and I thought, shit, sweetie, we could win this thing. But what does that really say? Because we shouldn't. No, rookie of the year.
    22:38
    Recognition is fine. and I think that was good to get recognition for it, but we shouldn't have won that. Tim Sexton is a lead coder. Right. That category is very loose, so it opens up doors of opportunity for those that are doing something that's new within the hobby to be recognized as rookie status, but I think without question for me anyways, and I didn't go dissect my Twippy votes categorized on any shows or anything, but I thought the person that earned that rookie of the year status, who was Tim Sexton, I think that was rightfully awarded to him. Or Martinez with his artwork. That was my write-in, too. I never was a fan of that category because of how broad it is, but I've expressed that on other shows before, just logistically. It's not my award ceremony. I would have structured things very, very differently. I think it's wise where on those – what we used to call the write-in categories, you know how they are emphasized as being favorites, not bests. Because of the recognition of the – obviously, it's all a popularity vote. it's a people choice award but with that said if i had devised it we would be doing preferential rank voting with so people could well well because i'm thinking back to the write-ins and stuff and how you had instances scenarios where things like slap save didn't make it in and a lot of people were like well slap save was my number two or number three podcast and it's like yeah well but there's no way to reflect that currently it's a it's a first past the post thing and that's and i I will take a little bit of heat for that because last year it just made so much sense to have a rookie of the year in retrospect. I can see why it fell a little bit on the wayside this year when there wasn't as many prolific rookies of the year, if you will, as creators in the industry. So I take a little bit of onus for that. I mean, there are a lot of ways to craft an award. It's even saying it's going to be a People's Choice Award. There's just a lot of different flavors that different people are going to have different interpretations. I'm not embittered by how Rookie of the Year is. It's just as a category, I would never have backed its style that it is. But that's where – and this is a good discussion because that is where an award show may need to make modifications year after year. You know, there's a common sense approach that needs to be made to uphold objectivity and to create, you know, an award show that reflects what the feelings actually are in recognition that should be emphasized. Sure. And in all the past years, we've seen that out of the Twippies. I'm going to assume for the next go, there will be modifications yet again. I think one of the biggest moments, for better or worse, was Kaneda's acceptance speech, even though I was the butt of the joke at the beginning. It was the Pinball Network getting some more airplay there at the Twippies. I was going to say that, Ken. Look, if you want to spend four minutes just showcasing me again and the insecurity and fear you have of me taking something from you, look. And you did it with one of my idols, a little all right, all right, all right, Matthew McConaughey, on one of my favorite films ever made in Interstellar with Christopher Nolan. Come on. You couldn't have picked a better example there. I'm really torn on how that played out, right? So I did not like it, and not the part where criticizing the – I mean there's a – it has a bit of a sore winter vibe.
    26:01
    Most people don't take acceptance speeches to gloat, but setting that aside, the I guess roasting, I'm sure the intent was to be entertaining. And so this sort of roasting of all these people in the industry that are designing and working on games and stuff. But normally the rules to doing roasts are fairly structured. Have you ever watched like a Comedy Central roast? I love roasts. I love nasty comics like Lisa Lampelli. I'm a fan. Don't get me wrong. I do enjoy it. You like Lampelli? She's not the best, but I like her willingness to be harsh because that's what a roast requires. But generally speaking, when you look at things like this, there are two styles of roasts that I'm familiar with. one is when the subject goes in to be roasted and they they're in on it like they set the parameters on things that you want to talk about uh and and otherwise it's like just destroy me that's how it's supposed to be a lot of fun and then there's sort of the approach where the mcs do good-natured roasting i'm thinking this is like ricky gervais at the golden globes where you know as the mc you're gonna he's gonna roast everyone in the room that's just the style and you go in understanding that uh when you look at award ceremonies it is not normal to see roasting styles happen from people who are accepting awards and thus i think that's where it it adds to that controversy i get that i guess it matches the style of his show so maybe some people kind of expected that but when you say it's about celebrating pinball and then you're letting someone to sort of make fun of everyone i don't i'm not sure everyone who was in that video uh took it as something funny so i'm surprised that jeff patterson just knowing jeff allowed it to be aired to be honest because jeff from the creation of this the very beginning he was always very open with greg and i about this needs to include everyone we don't need to alienate anyone we take all negativity we take it out and it felt like there was a just a very abrupt change of tone that was allowed this year that was very surprising to me because i just i personally know how sensitive he was uh to that so i'm surprised it was even aired i think if if anything chris always he's always negative about podcasts going too long brother man how about editing your damn acceptance speech to about 30 seconds jeez but i don't i was mixed on i thought it was it was entertaining oh there's a lot of work in that video you could see it you could see there was a lot of effort that was put in i was glad that he knows how to edit that's all segment though was way too long when you think about yeah the macho uh intro it was just it was so much longer than any of the other intros uh his chris's acceptance was really long and then carrie's riff against chris after that made it I was like, I was looking at my watch. There was a lot of attention drawn to that category, which is kind of how I started this conversation. Of the thousand plus people that were watching that, how many of those could have appreciated exactly what was happening at that point? Did you start? And this was right before you kind of got into Game of the Year. So that's what most people are waiting to hear. But arguably, I think people were waiting to see what was going to happen with the podcast category. Again, the whole thing fascinates me. Kind of. But again, it wasn't live. So you knew everything was pre-planned. With that being pre-planned, and I'm not saying I'm supportive or I'm against the acceptance speech video that Chris Kaluas put out. I am just a little bit surprised that it did air in its entirety. Now, there was a disclaimer at the bottom that was scrolling that was basically saying, hey, you know, these opinions are not necessarily those of those that are part of the – Yeah, but that felt like more of part of the joke. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I would say, though. Controversial at the very least. Where you could see where there was not at least full understanding by the attendees in the premiere channel was there was a lot of support. Obviously, he won, as we all expected him to. He has a lot of fans. There was a lot of support for what he did in the video. But then when Kerry did the same thing back, there were a lot of people basically calling Kerry bitter and salty and not getting that he was doing the exact same thing, even though it was tremendously obvious to anyone who has any sort of sense of humor that that was the strategy going on. So there was a little bit of just sort of fanboyism going on as well, and people weren't really getting the joke. They just – it's sort of like you like that. You like what Chris does, and you'll back anything he does, and then if someone goes against it – you see, it's more tribal. It's a manufactured competition that is not there. but people people really get up in arms oh there is a competition oh he you know these people are poo-pooing this guy because they didn't ask him to be part of it like it's this fabricated competition you're saying yeah you know i have everybody else like no we're just making podcasts well and that it is sort of funny i do i've seen obviously as a as a longtime podcaster i've seen that from time to time maybe less so than than you do zach uh because that's for damn versatile Bill, and who doesn't like me? And Ken, because you were so successful, you obviously had a very large podcast. The podcast I come from was a much, much smaller audience. But I get along with – I don't listen to all pinball podcasts. There are a number of popular ones I do not listen to because they're not for me. But I get along with a lot of podcasters. Behind the scenes, a lot of us, outside of TPN and everything else, talk to each other all the time. We say things about the segments we like, the things we don't like. People have asked me for suggestions. I've asked other people for help on things that I think I could use work on. It's really quite friendly. So I'm always a little surprised that it's almost like there's a – and I'm sure it's a very small section. But it's almost like there's a section of the hobbyists in pinball that want us to hate each other. And I don't get it. But I also believe that there's a section in the hobby and its content creators that thrive on that competition. And if that competition isn't there, they're not as motivated to go and put forth their full effort. So even if that competition is artificially kind of created, it helps to motivate that person to continue to put out content. Another thing I loved seeing was that Mike Vinicore is accepting the awards again on Stern's behalf. I love that Vinny, even from home, he's accepting the awards. Is there a reason that Keith doesn't participate in the Twippies to accept the awards? Because I can understand if he's not going to be able to make it to a show, he's not going to be able to make it to Texas or whatever, that's fine. Well, he had a friend accept a couple of the awards on his behalf, right? Right. Is it that he just is a little humble or he doesn't feel comfortable? I guess I have to reach out to Keith and ask. I never thought to ask him that. I just thought before it was because of proximity of where he was to the rewards and he wasn't able to get out there. But at this point, there's going to be a video upload or something. They don't like being in front of the screen, the limelight. But then again, the other side of me is like, Jesus, man. Sean Astin showed up. Like, can we – a 10-second video, Keith, of you saying thanks for the best Game of the Year award or best designer? I'm going to go on a – I'm going to take a 180 on this and say, who cares? Yeah, I was going to say that too. I don't care either way. That's my – and I have no idea. I haven't spoken to Keith Elwin about it, but I assume he didn't accept it because he doesn't really care about these awards. And think about how many awards this man has won doing much, much more challenging things for him than being an awesome designer comes easy to him. I think it comes easy. I think a lot of people do care, though. You say, who cares? I think there's people that have supported Keith in his games and would probably like to hear from him. Maybe not on the Twippies. That's not his thing. I totally get it. But I think there are people that do care. Do I personally care? I don't care, but I am curious. And maybe that I'm contradicting myself. Well, no, no, it's fair enough, except that I not to push too aggressively. But that's not anyone's place to decide. It's you are you all, myself included, are buying products. We are buying products. We vote with our wallets on what we like and what we don't like, be it by buying a game or dropping a quarter on location. and if Keith doesn't want to accept an award for whatever reason it is not our place to judge that that's up to him of course oh and I'm not judging again I'm just asking a question and well no it's if it's not appropriate for me to do so I apologize I'm not trying to start any controversy with no one that's what people want we've just talked about that with podcasting so my point would be it's like if you think you and I'm just talking to the audience if you think If that Keith Elwin owes you because you gave him a Twippy Award to come on and accept it and say something to you, then you are not voting for the right reasons. That's an interesting take. Yeah, I don't know that anybody feels that it's owed. But again, and this goes back to my whole thing, like it'd be nice for pinball manufacturers to reveal games at pinball shows because, you know, your fan base is there. They want to hear from you. Do they owe it to the fan base to do that? Not necessarily. if those that wanted to hear from Keith were disappointed because he wasn't able to give content to the Twippies, I don't know that they necessarily felt that it was owed, but it was disappointed because it was something they would have liked to have absorbed that night in celebrating games that they had voted for. Sure. I get it. I would have liked the Twippies to have been a live award, but I don't always get what I want. I get you. That's your life, isn't it, Dennis?
    35:53
    I'm a winner, Zach. There's a difference, though. There's a difference between – Don't let those Twippies fool you. I'm a winner. There's a difference between wanting something and feeling as if something is owed to you. And that's where I want to make sure that I'm putting a line in the sand. I'm not saying that I thought that anybody felt that they were owed, but it's something that maybe they would have liked to have happened. If I might be fair here, Dennis, you said that he doesn't care about these awards. But before the show started, he did kind of snap a selfie that says Twipper Blazer activated, to be fair. I think I merely postulated that that might be the reason why he didn't do it. Okay. Maybe he was like me and I didn't want to do an acceptance speech because I'm like, I'm going to feel like a damn fool if I record an acceptance speech and don't win. So I didn't record any because I'm like, I'm not going to win anything. Well, you see, and this is a sausage making behind the scenes thing. Once I heard that people had been approached to record acceptance speeches on the chance that they could win, when I hadn't been asked to do any, I knew I hadn't won anything. I knew I didn't win anything either because there was rumors going around. And I guess I wasn't anticipating winning anything, but it's like I wasn't asked. I was out of the Twippies this year, so no big deal. No, no. I wasn't surprised, but I just thought, oh, well, that kind of took some of the mystique away from it. Because then I thought, well, maybe they asked the top three, and that means I wasn't in the top three on anything, which – Yeah, I don't know how they did that. In the case of podcasts, I guess I was, and in the case on publication, I wasn't, and nor should I have been.
    37:23
    But it's like – But again, I don't think the ceremony is for the content creator so much as it is for the pinball community as a whole. I mean, how many people of the – that would be an interesting question. How many people of the thousand who watched are content creators? That's true because there's a lot of support within the industry amongst the content creators. And again, that's not to get back to the pinball network, but that was kind of the big idea behind the pinball network, content creators kind of working together, supporting each other. It's the whole thing. It's the whole – the business plan, so to speak. Work together. That's why it's on one RSS feed, it's one team. Exactly, exactly. So when we're looking at this award show, did Stern win the night? They took home the most awards, Jurassic Park, Shined. Black Knight even got some wins for Dennis Creasel that I didn't think it was going to win. Black Knight was my most voted for game, even though I did not give it game of the year. I remember you saying that. Category by category, I felt it actually won most of those categories. It's just there's a lot about it that was impressive, even though I just think as an overall package, Jurassic Park is a better game. I really like that Elvira House of Horrors had received more recognition than I anticipated going in. And I thought it was much deserved. Given no pro model, I really thought Elvira just wasn't going to have the exposure to win anything. Absolutely. If you look at best music and sound effects, it was taken home by Black Knight Sword of Rage by Stern Pinball with 33 percent of the votes, which is that's hefty, you guys. I would have thought with that John Williams original score from Jurassic Park, it would have got more than second place at 21%. That was surprising. Even Willy Wonka in the top three on the music and sound effects kind of surprised me. I'm not surprised Black Knight ended up winning that one, but, yeah, it was – there was some competition. If anything, I'm a little surprised Wonka was that high. Yeah, Wonka kind of had, again, a controversial audio package from launch where some had compared it to the slot machine type of sound, But I think as it's evolved, I don't know that it's greatly changed, but it's become more accepted by a lot of people in regards to audio package goes. And speaking of Willy Wonka, it walked away with the Twippy for Best theme. I think that was an upset. I did not see them winning over Jurassic Park theme. I agree. I did not think it was going to win that one, but I'm not blown away by the idea. Wonka is Jersey Jack Pinball's strongest theme to date, in my opinion. I agree. but Jurassic Park is a blockbuster film that still holds up. 23% to 32%, that is statistically significant. I'm surprised there was that big of a spread. Was there a difference between, there's so many words, was there best theme and best theme integration? Yes. Okay. And best theme integration went to Jurassic Park with about 34% of the vote, and Wonka had 22%. Right. That makes sense. Yes. That makes sense. that threw me and then even Jurassic Park of course is going to take home best toys and gimmicks it's got a freaking T-Rex that roars and throws a ball that one I actually thought should have gone to Black Knight the spinning flail well because that toy is on the pro even Jurassic Park pro doesn't have the throwy T-Rex and a lot of people have only I've only played the pro but if you're picking your best model Jurassic that's the winner see it's weird to me like where i i think it's an impressive toy i'm perfectly fine with getting a pro jurassic park i don't need that dinosaur picking up the ball it doesn't even look like a t-rex it looks like a brontosaurus oh stop i just don't i don't need it i just don't i mean i think it's an ingenuitive but it's it's okay brontosaurus toy don't count disqualified for my money on best toys and gimmicks i would actually give l virus house of horrors the nod over black Knight. That's one of the coolest toys that we've seen in pinball in quite some time. That big house all lit up that has multi-interactive pieces to it. And you've got a ball locking trunk on the ramp. You've got a buck. You've got a crib. I thought Elvira's House of Horses would creep into that top three, but I was wrong. Again, with Elvira, with no pro model existing, I'm amazed it got top three on anything much less won anything Just exposure reasons But I agree the house is very cool What did you guys think about Best Homebrew It was won by Jack Danger Honorable mentions Castlevania, well-deserved by Justin Kalinowski. And Spaceballs, the pin by Wolf Marsh. Now, Spaceballs, I don't... Man, I remember being in the early committee meetings and us trying to differentiate what's eligible and what's not. I was pulling for Justin Kalinowski with the Castlevania pin. and it's i played that pin and i was able to play it at a show and i was supportive of his efforts that being said everybody in the homebrew community deserves a big hats off because there's so much work that goes involved into that um dead flip from dead flip pinball streaming won that category uh with his pin i'd never flipped his pin so i guess arguably i may i should not have maybe even considered voting in that category because i didn't play all these homebrew pins but The one that I did play and that I was supporting with my Twippy vote was Castlevania. And I voted for the Dead Flip pen. It was the only one I was familiar with. I like the look of the layout. I can't wait for you guys. I've been consulting with somebody doing a homebrew machine right now, and it is such my theme and the integration and the mechs in it are so phenomenal that if they're able to get it done for next year's, it's a landslide. It's so exciting. Can't wait. I don't think anybody knows about it, but it's going to be so cool. I know about it. Do you? I know all. What about favorite pinball location? Here's where Logan won again. Logan Arcade in Chicago, Illinois. Crystal, I'm sorry.
    43:15
    We had the same top three again. And is Logan really everyone's favorite pinball location? Yeah, Logan's pretty good place. I didn't vote in this category, but I'm not surprised it won. I mean, even in Chicago alone, Emporium, I don't know. There are a lot of nice barcades that offer pinball in the Chicagoland area. Logan Hardware or Logan Arcade, though, has been around for a while. It's established, and it comes out of the city in which pinball is born. It's the heart of pinball in Chicago. It doesn't surprise me that Logan wins that, and I think it is deserved. I don't agree with this category in a People's Choice Award. I think this is an international award, and this is too niche of a category that relies too much on people. It's like, look at the example in Homebrew where I said, Jack Dangerous was the only game I had seen.
    44:08
    Then how many people actually played all the other ones? You feel the same way about the favorite pinball league in which Bells and Chimes did take the win out of San Antonio. The honorable mentions were New England Pinball League and Titletown. I thought New England might have won because of such the large amount of people in that league, well-deserved by bells and chimes, but the same kind of thing there. Competitive pinball player. I've said that as well. Some of these categories. Even more so than location because how can you play in a league that you are not in? And so generally you need to live in the area to play in the league.
    44:43
    Well, you're not traveling the country to play in all these leagues. You don't have that opportunity to do that. But do you understand why we included it? I think I understand the logic that you ran through your brain to do it. It's not my logic, though. Did it bounce around up there? Bing, bong, bing, bing. And we're celebrating pinball. We, as if I'm still part of it.
    45:08
    Let's move on. Best animations and display, my boy. It's so sad, man. JP to win with a, oh my gosh. Talk about squeezing out the win here. Number one, I did not know, because this is not my favorite J.P. DeWin work that he's done at Jersey Jack Pinball. This was for Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Yeah, best animations in display. But he edged it out 23.6% to 23.3% over Jurassic Park, which has some cool effects. But animation-wise, probably not my favorite Chuck Ernst work either. Black Knight, for me, was kind of the one that stood out. Even Elvira, for that matter. Black Knight and Elvira were both better than Wonka or Jurassic Park, in my view. Black Knight stood out immediately when it was released. It was like, it was when you saw that, all right, Stern is really stepping it up as far as these animations go. It was impressive. That being said... That claymation feel. Yeah. I think a lot of what Willy Wonka has animation-wise isn't necessarily on that main screen. I mean, when you look at something as simple as the match sequence on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, There's so much that went into that, whereas that might not have been something that was considered as even important with another manufacturer or another game. Integration with a camera into the animations. That's pretty cool. It looks good. I don't mean to suggest it was ugly, but just I don't think it was at that level. But it was a very close vote. I'd like to see that camera. Can we get a better resolution camera for these Jersey Jack pinball machines? because it's like that's a feature that is being – attention is being drawn to that. And whenever it takes my picture, man, I'm just like, man, I hope nobody sees this because I look horrible even more so. I need a better resolution camera on those JGP. It's like a Polaroid. Yeah, Polaroid might be a little bit better. I think it's the angle too in which it's taking my picture. It always looks like I just had a real rough night.
    47:07
    Maybe you did. That's every night for you, Ken. Yeah, maybe you did. I know, man, especially the last 15 days. Oh, jeez. Favorite pinball website went to Pinside. The honorable mentions were match play events. I'm glad that they got that recognition of top three because I didn't think that would get enough. And then this week in pinball got the other designation. Favorite pinball conventions were used to TPF, Chicago Expo, and Replay FX all being in the top three. And then the favorite competitive pinball player, Keith Elwin, etched it out over Bowen Cairns and Jack Danger. Favorite pinball tournament, Pinburg took it home. Everybody thought that. Texas Wizards Tournament. People really liked that tournament. That showed up in the top three last year, I believe. Best Callouts went to Elvira House of Whores. Well deserved there. I agree, too. Well deserved. Elvira had a lot more representation than I would have anticipated, and I thought rightfully so. So good on the community for being fair and balanced to the best of their ability to nominate these things. The voice actor accepting Elvira's award, that was my favorite acceptance speech. That was cool. Tim Crisco is an unbelievable guy. If you get a chance, Head to Head Pinball Podcast did an interview with him, and it was probably my favorite pinball interview of all time. The guy's got a great personality. He's been around forever. And the energy that he brought to that acceptance speech, it was entertaining. It went a little longer than some of the others, but you didn't mind it as much. And he just seems like a fun guy. I would love to sit down and have a beer with that guy and just talk pinball. Yep, absolutely. Couldn't agree more, Dennis. Thank you for bringing that up. Best light show went to, now this, I think the people got it right. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory at 40% of the votes. Next up was Black Knight Sword of Rage at 15.4. We can't forget that flame in the background on that backboard. That was cool. But Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, I think objectively had the best light show, often as Jersey Jack pinball machines do. Yeah, it was my vote. As it was mine. and then we got to the oh the dumbest freaking category of the year youtube channel papa wins over straight down the middle of tnt that was my favorite one let me tell you they have uh their tutorials right on youtube they had a couple this year yeah yeah i mean honestly there was a surprise in that category for me uh again everybody a lot of effort went into everything on that category but straight down the middle had my vote and i was very surprised to see that you guys did not take that twippy home not hear that in that category but it was a little it was maybe if i had voted for straight down the middle it would have won i think dennis was the swing vote on that but of all the surprises of the night i that was one or two as far as me being a little bit surprised we were happy to be in the top three sure um because we we worked really hard last year uh and some of the pieces we may not have had the quantity that we did in previous years but I really think we showed up quality-wise in some of the production that we did, especially for some of the manufacturers. We were really proud. So top three was very much appreciated by us. And you can't take anything away from Papa. I mean, Papa's been there forever. The Bo and Karen's tutorials are their greatness. We have favorite pinball streamer is Deadflip, of course. That was candidly well-deserved. The guy lives, eats, breathes pinball streaming. That's his baby. The birth of pinball streaming came out of Chicago, Illinois. But hot damn, we have Flippin' Out Pinball that we mentioned before. Nicely done, Ken. But we also had Papa TV Pinball there as well. My favorite category, favorite pinball topper of 2019, Black Knight Sword of Rage. And Steve Ritchie took that home over Medieval Madness Remake Topper in Star Wars R2-D2. I got a little love for the R2-D2 topper. I like saying that. I'm not a fan of the R2-D2 topper, but I am a fan of the Black Knight Sword of Rage topper. and the Black Knight Sword Rage topper was something that Steve Ritchie, when that game was released, he's like, wait until you see the topper. And, man, it did not disappoint. No, it's cool. That hammered home. This one was in no way surprising. It was so much cooler than anything else. Anytime you have a topper that sells games because of an accessory, that's a winner. I would agree. Best artwork. Oh, Christopher Franchi finally gets his day in the sun by winning best artwork for his work on The Munsters by Stern Pinball with 25% of the votes. That was my pick. I think it was pretty clearly the best art package. I agree. I voted for Munsters. Totally agree. I think that what the concern might have been would have been that maybe that game, because it was released in January of that year, that something would have been more fresh on people's mind during the voting. But to think about it, it was the first game that we saw that year, And that art package held through the entire year and won that Twippy. So congratulations, Chris Franchi. Absolutely. I think that artwork, especially the black and white rendition, will go down as maybe one of the best art packages in pinball history. Whoever had that idea for the black and white. The only thing that stood out to me was because of its low exposure, I personally think Cosmic Carnival should have done better than 6.5%. Fully agree. But who played it? Who saw it? Fully agree. And you know what? Martina's work on the Star Wars comic edition. I really think that that deserves some. That would have been my order would have been top three. Munsters, Cosmic Carnival, comic edition. That's my top three. I can see that. I can definitely see that. But yeah, the Munsters are nice. Even though Chris won't talk to me. I don't know why I've made him mad. He won't respond to me. I still love his artwork. It's because it's a friendly podcast community.
    52:53
    He sent me a note. That's why. No, stop rubbing it in. He wanted a photo of my neon sign. Hey, come to think of it, I haven't spoken to Franchi in a long time either. Yeah, but he responds to you. He just doesn't like me. I don't know that I've reached out to him recently. You know what, though? He's busy with his super awesome pinball show. You know what would be super awesome? If he at least wasn't mad at me. Chris, what is going on? Best play field, gameplay, and layout. Jurassic Park. Agree? Disagree? Easily. No, no, no, no, no. Don't you add, Zach. No, no, no, no, no. Numbers don't lie, Zach. 53.6%. Come on. It just curb stomped everything else. I thought Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory was a strong runner up there. And it was. It was clearly easily second place compared to everything else. I'm going to give Jurassic Park the nod. I'm fine with that. The problem I'm having is the discrepancy between Willy Wonka and Jurassic Park. I think that something like a gameplay and layout, I think that's a category that is a bit more objective. There's some math behind that. There's some geometry behind that. And Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, people can say what they want. That is one of the greatest Pat Lawler layouts ever made. It never gets old. That layout never gets old. Some of the unique shots in that we've never seen in pinball. The same can be said for Jurassic Park. Yeah, Jurassic Park's a pretty fresh take on a layout also. So, I mean, both those pins were innovative in the way of play field design, at least for me last year. And I could not be disappointed to be stuck with one or the other. And it would be difficult for me to choose between the two. Well, maybe this just shows designers that are listening or paying attention that the top two vote getters were unique, different layouts. And that's what people are wanting in 2020 and years beyond. Well, and at least in 2019, that's what they got. here i think wonka would have fared a lot stronger you wouldn't see this well it was clearly distinctly you know it's safely almost 10 above third place in terms of being in second but remember this is a first past the post voting system it's not preferential rank so in preferential rank on playfield gameplay and layout i would have given my number one points to jurassic park but i would have put wonka at number two because i really like your layout so when you're asking people, okay, you can only pick one and your thoughts about the other are in no way reflected on the vote tally, that's why you're going to see this sort of disparity because I do believe, even objectively speaking, there is more uniqueness to the Jurassic Park gameplay and its layout that's going to stand out to more the majority of people and it clearly did in the vote because, I mean, this ain't a plurality. He got a majority. That dinosaur fed on this goat. Nom, nom, nom. On best rules, we had Jurassic Park walk away. I think at the time of voting, that makes sense. You would have seen a hell of a lot more votes for Elvira's House of Whores if it was measured and voted upon now. Yeah, if I were to vote on it now, Elvira would have been my number two, but it's still well below Jurassic Park in terms of best rules. Yeah, Willy Wonka ended up with number two over Black Knight at the third position. Then we get to game of the year. We all seen it coming. We knew it was coming. Jurassic Park took it home with damn near 50% of the votes for Game of the Year, designed by Keith Elwin and produced by Stern Pinball. Congratulations. Much deserved. Absolutely.
    56:26
    Not only is that the Game of the Year, but from a sales standpoint, that is a damn juggernaut. I still wonder if there were more Wonkas that were in circulation, how that may have impacted the voting, because you have more people that had an opportunity to play Willy Wonka. So I'm not taking away from the accolades of Jurassic Park because I think the voting was absolutely fair. Yeah, I don't think it would have mattered here just because Jurassic Park, it was special. It is like I was explaining monsters going down as being a special piece of artwork that transcends this specific year. I think Jurassic Park is going to do the same thing. It is Iron Maiden cool, but with a theme that wins everyone over. Go back and look at this award show. Look at everybody that was nominated, and what an incredible year in pinball. What a great year of pinball. 2019 was damn good, and I'm glad that Jurassic Park didn't just take home every award like I feared it could have. It was a good mix-up. Yeah, I thought we saw a lot of diversity in the best of categories for these games. If you don't mind, and this is like if I could add one twippy onto this, it would go to the pinball community. because last year a collective effort from everybody in pinball did raise over $50,000 for Project Pinball. Wow. And I thought that that was a huge way in which we all came together for a common goal. So hats off to the pinball community for that. That's the only reason this thing exists. It's people that are listening to this show right now. That's why the Twippies exists. Let me ask you guys this. Now that we've just talked about this big celebration of 2019, I think we all three agree it was an incredible year, strongest year in my memory of pinball going back to when i first started getting games in 2012 will 2020 be a stronger year than 2019 with regard to what what are we measuring game games the quality what we see the excitement however you want to define it i'm gonna say yes and i can tell you why okay okay i'm gonna say no but you go ahead and tell me why you think it's a yes i'm going to say yes because everybody's going to jump on this oh the the covid thing is delayed things it's an off year no the market's going to be down no if i'm talking just distinct creation we're always evolving in pinball things are always becoming more innovative year after year and i think what you're going to see in 2020 and we're going to start seeing it in the next month or so we're going to see some dynamite pinball machines being released look at Multimorphic with Heist that we can talk about here in a bit, that pales in comparison to anything they've ever done. You've got the rumored announcement of Stern's next game that is supposed to be a freaking juggernaut. A juggernaut. Then when you think that Keith Elwin can crank out a layout every year, maybe we get another Keith Elwin game. And then the follow-up to Eric Menier's Pirates of the Caribbean, who people still can't get enough of we're going to have a game possibly from him coming up this year. You've got CGC potentially with two releases this year. American Pinball is going to ride right on Hot Wheels. Maybe we see something else from them this year. 2020, I think. Don't forget Rick and Morty, right? Then we've got Rick and Morty. Rick and Morty, the highest selling pinball machine by Spooky. 2020, I think, it may take just a slight edge, but it's going to beat out 2019. Mark, my word. Numbers don't lie. What do you think, Dennis? Your words are Mark? Dennis has an opposite take on this. Yeah, Zach is way underestimating the impact of COVID, and there's no way we're going to get that number of games he's possibly – I'm not a Dennis Downer. We're not going to get the output for all those games. It doesn't make any sense because the lines are shut down, and everything's just backing up. So, like, two games out of American Pinball? Why? They're shut down for making the first one. You're not being realistic at all. Now, you don't have to judge it just off of output, but your argument did lead into that. I think that we've been seeing so far this year, it feels like it's the return to form year. We're seeing fan layouts. That's what Stranger Things is. That's what Hot Wheels is. Rick and Morty is not. That is true. And Heist is not either. So it's not everyone. But given the impact on the production numbers, I just think that it's going to feel like a light year. And because of that, I think it's going to feel like it's a less innovative year. Stranger Things has innovation like projection mapping. That's not innovative. I know, but it hasn't been super well received. Killer theme. Yeah, but I think if you're going to do a direct comparison versus the output and ingenuity from the year prior to this year, I mean, we're already behind the eight ball just in terms of amount of pins that are being released. So, yeah, it's not that the talent's not there. This is just practical logistics. I just don't think 2020 is going to go down as strong of a year. It may still be a good year, but not as strong. At this point, Stern Pinball last year released one pin. It was the Munsters. At this point this year, they've released Stranger Things. You guys take your pick for me right now. Stranger Things pinball or Munsters pinball? Go.
    61:37
    Exactly. That's my point. So from Stern Pinball perspective, the only judgment we have right now is it's better this year. When do we see the next game come out of Stern Pinball? I mean, if you're going to argue that, you're looking at a small sample size of what was released early in the year. What if we don't have them come out until June? So now you've lost six months of production. And I'm not arguing that I think it's a worst year. I'm just saying that in comparison to last year, it's going to be hard. Yeah, Ken's right because if we have a multi-month production delay, and we probably will, and there's thus just built-up demand for more Stranger Things, they're going to put those on the line, then go and do Toitles, and we don't get Elwynn's Game at all this year. But what if we get this? Copy three corner sets this year. Look, guys, I think it's easy to jump into that, but listener, follow me here. I've just compared Munsters to Stranger Things. We know who the winner was there. If we have a next upcoming game from Stern Pinball we get to compare it to wait for it black knight sword of rage listener where are you going there and then it endless we bringing it maybe we get another boutique from stern by the end of the year my point being is it's easy to say yeah because of this covid thing but no i think stern's got some things up their sleeves as well jersey jack pinball i don't doubt anything that you just said i'm just saying comparing it to last year in the output and the amount of pins that came out. I think we lose a manufacturer this year. Oh. But that might not be for a bad thing, though. I think that the community will view 2019 as a better overall year for pinball if you can say, well, 2019 only lost Suncoast and 2020 lost... You said what products were going to be better. And I think right now, objectively, 2020 is already winning.
    63:19
    Yeah, I can see what you're saying. I mean, there's and I think what Dennis said specifically at the beginning is in what comparison are you making? I mean, there's so many different ways that you can look about that. You could also look at how the hobby rallies and goes on this wild sprint for the last half of the year to say that this was the best year in pinball ever. I mean, there's so many different ways to look at it. That's why I think there's too many variables. You need something more structured to make a direct comparison for me. Hot Wheels compared to Oktoberfest. I don't know. I would have no idea. I've not played Hot Wheels. A Monster Bash remake compared to the rumored Cactus Canyon by CGC? I know which one I'd pick. Ooh, that's a good discussion, fellas. That's what got us in the top three. Right there.
    64:01
    Oh, really? It's just dead silence. Man, no. I don't know if I was comfortable with where that whole conversation went, but it is what it is, I suppose. Well, I think we're at the end of the show now, and we can stop, right? No, we're missing a segment. no what no side note i i came up with a a gold standalone saying for 2020 us arguing this whole what's better maybe the favorite term that i've ever created instead of debbie downer dennis downer people that right there that's gold put it on a shirt put it on a bumper sticker dennis downer I like when you laugh at your perceived jokes like this. I was waiting for the cricket noise to present itself all on its own there for a second. Nope, people are loving it. I can feel it. I can smell it. Dennis Downer. I don't like you. Hey, you got some market trends for us? Let's just... Jeez. You like that transition? Let's just... Where you two can beat up on the greatest pinball podcast segment in all of history. Why are you always hating on market trends? Now, this is what sparked controversy with me. You saying that I don't like the segment. I never said I didn't like it. I just said, hey, let's get it going. It doesn't matter. Everyone thinks you hate it. I know. You hate it more than me now. I'm guilty by some association here that I did not even know I was taking part in. That's Max's way. He manipulates and twists. A lot of people have 21 questions about this segment. Some want to drain it. Some want to save it. but the pinball show's pinball market trends is here. Yes, it is.
    65:42
    Trending up this week is something I forgot all about last week. And, you know, with the secondary market not really trending up in general, I'm going to trend up a product that just came out that has been desired for years upon years upon years, especially those redoing pinball machines and restoring pinball machines. Trending up this week is from Merco. Merco Playfields has created the new Indiana Jones playfield reproduction.
    66:08
    Oh, didn't you see this, Krami? Did you see this? No, I didn't see that. Oh, people have been waiting for a remake of this playfield. Some of the NOS playfields have been going for crazy amounts of dollars in the last five years. But now that Merco has re-popped these playfields, not only can you choose the option of a buttery, clear-coated playfield, But now, glitter. You can have glitter on your Merco IJ Playfield. Does it get any better than that, guys? Talk about training up. If I was restoring a pinball machine right now, my pants would be training up.
    66:47
    That's so messed up, dude. What happened? They just throw glitter on it and they clear the glitter. In one of the silkscreen colors, they present some glitter. So I don't know if they used it in the yellow or the orange or the red, right? It sounds pretty inauthentic to me. Wow. It's so nice, guys. It's not just your yellow brick road glitter. It's not just your wonk, a splash, a candy glitter. This is tried and true to the play field and to the theme. Around some of the inserts that are green are now an emerald glittery green. Around some of the inserts that are orange are a burnt glittery orange. Yeah, so you're not getting like a glitter shaker, right? Christmas cookies. That's all I'm imagining. Who doesn't like Christmas cookies? You could just shake more glitter on the play field. The glitter part, sprinkles get everywhere and you have to vacuum. You know what? To be fair, I think Christmas cookies are shit. They suck. Sugar cookies? You're not getting the right Christmas cookies, and I hope that Nicole isn't making those because you just kind of buried yourself there, buddy. No. There are a lot of different types of Christmas cookies. You've got gingerbread. You've got shortbread. You've got the sugar cookies. Who in the fuck likes gingerbread? Nobody likes gingerbread cookies? No. It's a snickerdoodle. That's good. A snickerdoodle is just a sugar cookie. No, it's not. It's a cinnamon sugar cookie. Thank you. There's barely any cinnamon in a snickerdoodle's recipe. It's for pretentious people who act like they have cinnamon. There's just enough cinnamon for you to recognize that there's cinnamon. And I'm a big fan of the snickerdoodle. God. My throat all swells up and I'm like gasping. Eating Christmas cookies is like eating white bread without anything else. It's boring. It's plain. It doesn't have the glitter. I don't take food advice for someone who puts ketchup on a hot dog. I put ketchup on a hot dog, and I'm from Chicago. Boom, baby.
    68:33
    Yes, I do. Ketchup, mustard. That's a great combination. Where's your celery salt? Where's your little peppers? I can use celery salt and little banana peppers or whatever it takes. We don't need any of that. Just ketchup, baby. I had one yesterday. That being said, I haven't had a hot dog in probably two years. Had one 12 hours ago. Grilled out yesterday. You eat a lot of hot dogs. It was awesome. Grilled out. That's code for use the microwave. Yes. No, it wasn't. I got the charcoal, the Komodo. The Komode. Yeah. And if we're going to trend up Merco's glitter Indiana Jones play field, we might as well trend up the new decals that came out as well. Uh-oh. Oh, stickers. Yes. Well, look, Unobtainium, my friend, trying to get some NOS decals. All of you guys who restore pinball machines out there or who buy restored nice example pinball machines, no. Those things can fade. They can scratch, and you can't get reproductions, legally anyway. But now you can. You can also get a damn rad cow. You want that son of a bitch as buttery as you want your play field. Boom, Merco's got you covered. So you add your glitter play field. You add your Merco decal. You add your Merco rad cows. And then you call CPR up, get you a mirror back glass for the Indiana Jones. People, people, people, that's what I'm talking about. Trending up this week on Pinball Market Trends. Also trending up is the Tiger King, Joe Exotic. Oh, my God. Anybody see this show? Right? No, but my Facebook feed is just filled with memes now. Oh, it's... I looked on Netflix to see what it was, and what the hell is this? So I had to go to Ozark. Right to Ozark Season 3 for me. Right to Ozark Season 3. Nope, the Tiger King is where it's at. Mr. Joe Exotic sitting in the penitentiary right now. No spoilers given. But you know what? The recent podcaster that won three Twippies in a row, Kaneda, heralded himself recently on social media saying he is pinball's Joe Exotic. And you know what, Chris? Finally, we agree on something. Trending down this week is Stern Pinball's Star Trek Premium. Oh, man, I have one for sale. Is that like inverse bias? Is that the... Oh, my gosh. What would that be, Dennis? I don't comment on bias. What's the opposite of bias? Bias against the other side is still bias. It would be neutrality would be the opposite. So I'm being biased against myself. Mark it down here on the pinball show. Pinball market trends. Still biased. Same word. Just the other bell. Instead of a shill, you're a leash. I'm a kill.
    71:05
    From shill to kill. Kill the segment. Joe Exotic is the one that put him over the edge. Star Trek premiums on the secondary market, they're trending down. 6,500 tops. That's for a nice secondary Star Trek premium. That's a shame, too, because that's when Stern Pinball was still doing the powder coat. They were still doing the different toys. Oh, man, $6,500? That's a steal. But now it's trending down, so I'm screwed. Holding Steady this week. Woo! I'm getting tired already, but we've got a segment to finish here. Holding Steady is Jurassic Park Limited Edition by Stern Pinball. These things, these are kind of tough to find. And $8,500, I'm not going to see them drop below that. So if you see them drop below that, it's probably a pretty good deal. But Jurassic Park, I thought the premium was kind of where it's at, and those are selling really well. But you see those kind of dropping a little bit in price. But the LE, the limited edition, is holding steady at $8,500. Good for it. I wouldn't mind having one of those LEs, though, by the way. Let's transition over to save you guys some money the honest, ethical way in the Pinball Show, Pinball Market Trans, Deals of the Week. Buy, buy, buy. This segment gets longer every week, I'm noticing. No, it doesn't, damn it. A little bit. It does. We feel it. Why do you have to do deal of the week? Can't you just drop it at least and just keep market trends?
    72:26
    You know what, Dennis? This week, you're going to actually like my deal of the week so much so it wouldn't be surprising to me if you opened up your wallets. And out comes a little money because the deal of the week this week is off a pin side by PB Earwood outside of Indianapolis. That's close. he's got an atari airborne avenger ah dennis crazy you like you some atari don't you super wide body airborne avenger due to the location permanently closing he feels the need to sell off a few machines um well that's just sad i'm sorry this pin has been fully shopped leds rubbers installed he says you know it currently plays but the display and gi not really working haven't had time to go through and correct the issue. There's a little bit of wear on the playfield, which Atari doesn't have a little bit of wear. A little scratch on the back glass. Good luck finding a repro, so that's going to be fine. The lockdown bar and the side rail, they look like shit. I'll give them that, but you can find some replacements there. But he does have some miscellaneous parts. Some additional ally doors unpopulated he'd sell for $50. Do you know anything about those ally doors on the Atari's, Dennis?
    73:39
    Nope. It's a rare different kind of door that went on the Atari. Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. I wasn't hearing that. You weren't listening. He wasn't paying any attention. That's what happened. Yes, I wasn't. Yes. No, I had an Atari, and yes, it had the allies on it. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's got two additional allies, unpopulated, 50 apiece. Anyway, this sounds like a junker. It sounds like a clunker, but try to find you an Airborne Avenger, and then we'll agree that these aren't the easiest to find, and it's $600, fellas. That's a deal of the week. Buy, buy, buy! Dennis, what do you think about Airborne Avenger? I know that you know plenty about this title. I've never played it.
    74:19
    Thanks a lot. I would only pay $600 for a fully working Atari with the exception of Superman. How often do you see Ataris pop up? Well, we had an Airborne Avenger around here for $600 for over half a year. It wasn't working, though, so they couldn't sell it. Again, without me having played it, the problem for Airborne Avenger is it's not a good player.
    74:45
    Other than all that, sounds like a hell of a deal of a week going on here. It's Gen 1, so all the boards are in the base. So I don't know whether or not this has the Plexi cover that Atari started providing to operators so that things quit catching on fire.
    74:58
    And that was the pinball show's pinball market trends! Didn't win the trophy. Thankfully. That's what the trophy should have done. favorite pinball podcast segment. You should try to craft Twippy categories to win. You're going to decide. That's great. I should have trended down Ochooch off of Pinside for saying likely it's why he was inferring to me. Likely why Zach created the pinball network earlier in the year when the results started coming in and he wasn't going to win the Twippy. Oh, God.
    75:31
    Right. That was the whole thing. The whole motive for everybody to leave their podcast and start a network because you had something going on behind the scenes with the voting of the twippies uh fellas permission to revive the week no maybe no it was a close one chooch i got my eyes on you on behalf of bill webb and zach minnie and Ken Cromwell, Steve Beattie, all of Chicago, except for those. This is Lord Helmet. This is Lord of the Ring Breath here. Taco Pizza. Miss Taco Pizza. Where has he been? Love all those people.
    76:16
    Remember Dirty Toes B? I don't see him anymore. All right, everybody, that's going to conclude Episode 7 of the Pinball Show, only on the Pinball Network. You can reach us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. You can reach us on Facebook at The Pinball Show. You can reach us anywhere. And if you're listening to us, it's most likely because you've subscribed in your podcatcher. So we appreciate it. Dennis, where can the listeners reach out to contact you? They can always reach out at EclecticGamersPodcast at gmail.com or through Facebook.com slash EclecticGamersPodcast. I monitor both of those areas. I do not have my own super special TPN email. No, I just actually, while we were doing this recording, I created one for you. It's DennyDowner at gmail.com. Oh, my God. Don't use that. I won't check it. I didn't even know there was a pinball show at gmail.com. I only knew about the pinball network at gmail.com. Do we have a website? I forgot that I created it, and I noticed there was email stuck in there that I had not been replied to. I do have access to the pinball network at gmail.com. I see someone has emailed us asking about creating a show, if they could create a podcast that would target puppets.
    77:22
    What? Puppets. oh this this could be this could be great it's from puppet pals show submission hey pals pals with a z so i'm trying to say it right hey pals we've been thinking about doing our own podcast but we're just not sure we can do it ourselves we also think that bringing a new level of diversity and inclusion for puppet kind would really not just really not just us but also what is puppet kind i don't even what is that puppet kind you know like man kind like furries not just benefit us but also tpn right as i'm sure you know puppets have been marginalized in mainstream media for years we hope to show a really different side to puppet kind so let's talk some pinball and have fun with the bottom side of the hand do to be considered thanks and have a super terrific day the puppet pal nothing plays out better than puppets on podcasts and you know what in the effort of being inclusive here i would not rule it out let's do it you know that I used to be a ventriloquist. What? Please tell me you're being serious. No, I'm not. I'm sorry. Damn it. That would have been awesome. Who is your dummy?
    78:35
    Oh, be careful there. We all know you are now, but back in the day. He just realized he was alive. Oh, that, you know what? Yeah, low-hanging fruit there. Aces, boys. Nice. Puppet kind. You want to tell everybody where they can reach you, Zach? So you can reach me at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. If you'd like to buy a brand new, beautiful, or slightly used pre-owned pinball machine, give us a call at 812-457-9711. That's for flipping out. Or email me directly at zach, Z-A-C-H, at flip, the letter N, out, pinball.com. We pride ourselves on customer satisfaction, getting you these machines safe and quick, and backing up the product afterwards, as well as providing media and free content. Give us a try. You'll be happy for the decision you made. Also, be looking out for my guest appearance on Puppet Pals, Pinball Puppet Pals, coming up. Really looking forward to that, as well as all the other TPN content that's available this week and last week. We had a new final round pinball podcast that you guys should go check out. And the streamers, much love for the streamers. And happy birthday, Joe Fox. Yeah, happy birthday, Joe Fox. Happy birthday, Joe Fox. Have a great birthday. We appreciate everybody allowing us to play a part of your morning, afternoon, or evening. For Dennis Creasel and Zach Menne, I'm Ken Cromwell. Always practice safe pinball and all right, all right, all right up. Can we stop now?
    80:03
    Absolutely, we can. Everybody be safe and don't forget to take some time out of your day. Play some pinball. So long, everybody.
    80:10
    Let me give you a line from one of my favorite Scottish historical films. What cannot be helped, Zach, must be endured. So, endure it. One of my favorite Scottish historical films. That's like a category that I never would have thought of, man. I like that. It was Braveheart. Let's not f***ing bullshit each other. It's not f***ing Braveheart. Jesus Christ. Do-do-do-do-do-do-distro watch. That's right. Jack Menechizer. to use the the mind infected uh theoden king of rohan line you have no power here i don't think we'll get it this year but what if we did get like a back to the future holy shit i don't like to care less about back to the future there are four people in this hobby who care about that yeah i don't care about the future but it's monsters 2.0 dude you guys you have to at least be able to take yourself out of the equation yeah i recognize that it's highly sought after theme but like for me it really does nothing i get that no i i i just i i really have trouble i just compared to like ghostbusters i just don't see it i just don't see it it's right up there for a for a ton of people i mean i'll take your word for it but it's just it's really hard for me to it's it's equivalent to the goonies it really is told me that about monsters they told me that this was an who said that the hype around monsters was ridiculous but it wasn't about the theme but it wasn't ridiculous yeah i think back to the future is discussed way more than monsters ever was but let me ask you this if you can have one of these pins would you rather have and i guess i'll direct it to zach because i don't know that dennis again we don't care about back to the future would you rather have a new back to the future say by deep root or somebody stern or Or would you rather have Goonies? We did that on the... Check out Straight Down the Middle's episode 107, where we did discuss that. Oh, why would I do that? They can't even win a f***ing Twippy. I say, careful. I only watch the Twippy award winning YouTube channels. I'm watching Papa all day. I can't pick.
    82:18
    It's like picking a child there, because those are my two... You take Harry Potter, and I have a hot loaf on Harry Potter's forehead to make another lightning bolt. because these two themes, Back to the Future and The Goonies, those... What does that mean? Because I don't care about Harry Potter when we're talking about the two dream themes that I have left, and that is Goonies... I don't care about Harry Potter either. 1A, 1B. You know what I cared about? I cared about Stranger Things, and I'm still not sure how that worked out for me, so let's just... Have you learned finally not to love? Because that's the only way to truly enjoy the hobby. Just don't love. if you want to reach me reach out to oh my god oh man it's okay the best is okay oh gosh you're crazy bro you're crazy