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Episode 70 - Elvira Pinball is Back!

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·1h 1m·analyzed·Sep 19, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Stern reveals Elvira's House of Horrors; hosts discuss design, features, and positioning

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill Love discuss the official reveal of Stern Pinball's Elvira's House of Horrors, the third game in the Elvira pinball franchise, designed by Dennis Nordman with artwork by Greg Freres. They provide initial impressions of the game's layout, artwork, features (including the iconic house toy and physical ball locks), and Cassandra Peterson's exclusive video footage, while emphasizing these are preliminary observations pending hands-on play. They also address the game's positioning as a non-cornerstone release and discuss broader themes about evaluating pinball machines through extended play rather than first impressions.

Key Claims

  • Elvira's House of Horrors is the third installment in the Elvira pinball series

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, official announcement coverage

  • Dennis Nordman designed the game while contracted with Stern but has since switched employment to Deep Root Pinball

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, discussing designer transitions

  • Greg Freres heads up the art department at Stern and has been there for a while

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, describing Freres' role

  • This is not a cornerstone release for Stern; it has limited production runs (50 Signature Editions, 400 Limited Editions, infinite Premiums)

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, explaining Stern's product strategy

  • Cassandra Peterson no longer does public appearances in full Elvira costume, making this potentially the last footage of her in full costume on an LCD screen

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, discussing custom video footage exclusive

  • The game features Lyman Sheets on code programming

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, identifying programmer

  • Stern has plans to present the game as a team panel at Expo in mid-October and is not allowing individual coverage beforehand

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell, discussing Stern's media strategy

Notable Quotes

  • “Elvira's House of Horrors is the third installment of the Elvira series, designed by Dennis Norman with artwork by Greg Freres.”

    Ken Cromwell @ early in episode — Establishes basic credits and legacy context for the game

  • “I think the house is really cool. I do like the house. It's very Medieval Madness kind of-esque...with how there's different ways to enter into the castle, into the house. I like how the top spins on the house.”

    Bill Love @ mid-episode — Positive initial reaction to the central playfield toy

  • “This may be the last footage of her in full costume, full dress up Elvira, and it's going to be on an LCD on a Stern pinball machine. How cool is that?”

    Ken Cromwell @ discussing video footage feature — Highlights the cultural significance of Cassandra Peterson's exclusive video content

  • “I'm not a creepy old guy that is just looking for TNA on my play field. I'm into the Elvira as a pinball theme, and I'm excited that you've got the same guy doing the call-outs that was in Scared Stiff.”

    Ken Cromwell @ mid-episode, addressing potential criticism — Addresses concerns about the game's aesthetic and defends appreciation of the theme

  • “This is not a cornerstone game. So whereas they are making, I believe it's 50 signature editions, 400 limited editions, and then an infinite number of premiums, it's not what they consider to be a cornerstone release.”

    Ken Cromwell @ discussing production strategy — Reveals Stern's classification and production volume decisions

  • “I didn't know how I felt about Jurassic Park until we actually flipped one...Black Knight, Sword of Rage, something I never would have flipped. And then you put more time on it, more time on it. And then you're like, OK, now I realize why I probably shouldn't know.”

    Bill Love @ discussing evaluation methodology — Illustrates the importance of extended play before final judgment

  • “I think a lot of us are guilty of making that decision way too early in the relationship, so to speak. You need to kind of get to know each other a little bit.”

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill LovepersonDennis NordmanpersonGreg FrerespersonCassandra PetersonpersonLyman SheetspersonZach SharpepersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball officially revealed Elvira's House of Horrors with trailer and announcement materials distributed via IGN and official channels

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'I woke up this morning as we recorded this on Wednesday to see the official reveal or announcement for Elvira House of Horrors'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Game positioned as non-cornerstone release with tiered production: 50 Signature Editions, 400 Limited Editions, unlimited Premiums

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'they are making, I believe it's 50 signature editions, 400 limited editions, and then an infinite number of premiums, it's not what they consider to be a cornerstone release'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Central playfield toy features interactive house structure with diverter mechanism, spinners, and interactive windows/lighting possibilities

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'Premium, Limited Edition, and the Signature Edition models, they all feature Elvira's house of horrors, and it's like this house sculpt that's in the middle of the play field...with how there's different ways to enter into the castle, into the house. I like how the top spins on the house...I like the diverter inside of the house'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Game features dynamic B-movie trailer generation based on player's individual gameplay sequence and shot order

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'Make your own Dang B movie trailer from various library clips of vast content. Game will programmatically...Game's going to build a movie trailer based on the player's individual gameplay experience'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Exclusive filmed Cassandra Peterson footage in full Elvira costume; potentially last public appearance in character as she no longer does public Elvira appearances

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.185

0:00
Coming at you out of St. Charles, Illinois, the special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Hey, what's going on, Pinball Land? Welcome to episode number 70 of the special When Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm Ken Cromwell. I'm Bill Love. Bill, we've got a new game that was revealed by Stern Pinball that we'll talk about in a second. Before we do so, how's the week? How are you doing? Everything good? Yeah, man, just some long weeks, but making them through, man. How about you? Yeah, same here. Crazy day today, crazy couple days, but it's nice to have woken up this morning as we recorded this on Wednesday to see the official reveal or announcement for Elvira House of Horrors. And I wanted to go ahead and, listen, at this point, unless you've been under a rock or you've just been out of touch, you probably have seen the trailer or at least some of the pictures of this pinball machine. So I don't know that it's a huge deal for us to cover every single inch of it because you can absolutely check that out. And if you go to our Facebook page, you can see links to the IGN video that was uploaded today. Or you can actually see the actual announcement from Stern. So it's there on Facebook. But what I wanted to do, Bill, real quick, is kind of discuss the pin as a whole. Now, Elvira's House of Horrors is the third installment of the Elvira series, designed by Dennis Norman with artwork by Greg Freres. Dennis Norman is now working at Deep Root Pinball. And he did design the game while he was contracted with Stern. He's since had switched employment since the game was not released. And so it's kind of an interesting situation. Now, Greg's been at Stern for a little while as he heads up the art department there. Elvira and the Party Monsters was the first initial release these two guys went ahead and put together for an Elvira pin, followed up by Scared Stiff. And that was in the mid-'90s. And now here we are, 2019. We've got Elvira's House of Horrors. Initial thoughts on the pin, Bill Webb.
1:50
I'm kind of torn. I really think I just got to jump in front of it and play it. I don't know if I'm necessarily a fan of the layout. That doesn't mean that it's bad. It's just I haven't had an opportunity to jump on it yet. I do like the house. I think the house is really cool. Inside of the house, there's a diverter, so the ball can go either way to exit, which I think is very unique.

Ken Cromwell @ philosophy discussion — Articulates the podcast's philosophy about proper game evaluation

Deep Root Pinball
company
Elvira's House of Horrorsgame
Scared Stiffgame
Elvira and the Party Monstersgame
Jurassic Parkgame
Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
Deadpoolgame
Ghostbustersgame
Jack Dangerperson
Zach Menneperson
Jason Fowlerperson
Matt Kaninperson
Special When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
Medieval Madnessgame
Pinball Expoevent

high · Ken Cromwell: 'she no longer does public visitation or display in her costume anymore...This may be the last footage of her in full costume, full dress up Elvira, and it's going to be on an LCD on a Stern pinball machine'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dennis Nordman designed Elvira's House of Horrors while contracted with Stern but has since moved to Deep Root Pinball; Greg Freres remains at Stern as art director

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'Dennis Norman is now working at Deep Root Pinball. And he did design the game while he was contracted with Stern. He's since had switched employment since the game was not released'

  • ?

    content_signal: Stern has restricted individual podcast coverage of Elvira's House of Horrors, requiring team presentation at Pinball Expo (mid-October) as first official media appearance

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'Stern as a team is not really...They want the team to be together to talk about the game for the first time at Expo, collectively at Expo, because that's going to be like their panel'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Game features fan-layout design with playfield action concentrated in upper third; open middle field for long shots; minimal ramps; compact feature placement differs from back-heavy classic Williams/Bally designs

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'to me, it looks like a lot of the action as to what's going on in this game is in the upper third of the actual play field. Now, it leaves the middle of the play field fairly open for some long shots...Everything seems like it's neatly tucked away in the back portion of the pinball machine'

  • ?

    product_concern: Bill Love expressed preference for more black in playfield design compared to hot pink/purple/blue gradient; notes departure from recent Stern art direction style

    medium · Bill Love: 'I think I would have liked to have seen more black on the playfield...This is a different art package than what we've seen out of Stern lately, and that's because we're used to seeing the Zombie Yeti releases, and we're used to seeing the Chris Franchi releases'

  • ?

    code_update: Ghostbusters code update was revealed via Jack Danger stream on Deadflip; hosts unable to confirm if update is available for download at time of episode recording

    medium · Ken Cromwell: 'Ghostbusters code update is finally here...Jack Danger did a stream on Deadflip...I didn't look that far [to see if available for download]'

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts emphasize importance of extended hands-on play before judgment; cite examples of games initially dismissed but later appreciated (Jurassic Park, Black Knight, Deadpool, Getaway)

    high · Bill Love: 'I didn't know how I felt about Jurassic Park until we actually flipped one' and Ken Cromwell: 'I think a lot of us are guilty of making that decision way too early in the relationship, so to speak'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Game incorporates design callbacks to previous Elvira titles: Scared Stiff's coffin mechanic reflected in trunk lock; Stiff-O-Meter replaced with Freak Friar mode; similar music/callout approach

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'remember on Scared Stiff, you kind of had like the coffin that opened and shut. So that's cool...you've got the same guy doing the call-outs that was in Scared Stiff. I think it's awesome. You're going to have that similar kind of music and vibe'

    • 2:12
    Overall, yeah, I just really got to see it. Well, I think it's important to discuss right now, as we talk about the pin, these are our, like, this is our initial impressions of the pin. This is not a review, and this is not our final judgment. No. And we like to wait on that until we actually play it. I mean, there's been games that we've seen that we thought, eh, okay, well, we'll take it or leave it. And then you see it, and you're like, wow, this is a game that I need to have. And there were games where I even had seen on stream that I wasn't thrilled with. Deadpool was one of those games where I just wasn't thrilled with it at all, and it ended up being one of my favorite games, especially recently from Stern Pinball. So, again, these are our first impressions, and that's going to be based on media pictures and a quick teaser video that we've seen. This is by no means Final Judgment. If we go ahead and we look at some of the main attractions as featured in The Matrix by Stern Pinball, it says the taunting's over and the haunting begins in the third and campiest installment of Elvira Pinball Trilogy. Elvira's house of horrors immerses players in this fun, campy B-movie universe filled with all of the humor expected from Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. So we know the direction of the pin, Bill. It's going to be that campy humor that was very well received for the first two pinball machines, and it looks like they're going to be paying homage to some of the B-rated movies that might have been played on Elvira's show when it was in its heyday. Yeah. I think that's fun. I think that's kind of cool because you see kind of the black and white stills that are up on some of the ramps and whatnot. So utilizing the LCD and being able to take those, maybe it's going to be movie clips or stills, and have those kind of on the screen I think is awesome for the horror buff. You know what? I really like the animations that I saw so far, so I'm curious to see what they did. it um one of my initial thoughts was you know maybe that uh you know in in this day and age that some of the scantily clad stuff might get uh ripped so i'm curious to see how that pans out i know it doesn't bother me so much but uh yeah you know i mean it's so the concern of like the current day pinball climate of being a little bit more pc and uh respectful uh especially of the women's movement within pinball and globally, I can see where there would be some curiosity because right now we have Elvira in all of her glory, you know, wearing very top revealing clothing. Yeah. But it's something that we've seen from her the entire time. And it's something that she's capitalized on, which was her choice. And Elvira has always been in control of what she's doing. So I think that's going to be kind of the difference. Yeah. It wasn't somebody that was illustrated or drawn without their knowledge. Consent. Consent, right. You're taking what she's been successful on throughout her entire career, and, again, you're letting the fans see what they are expecting to see with Elvira. Now, the Premium, Limited Edition, and the Signature Edition models, they all feature Elvira's house of horrors, and it's like this house sculpt that's in the middle of the play field. It says, A real frightening Victorian fixer-upper full of creepy charm. and supernatural surprises around every turn. What are your thoughts on that? I think the house is really cool. I do, too. I do like the house.
    5:16
    It's very Medieval Madness kind of-esque. How do you mean? With how there's different ways to enter into the castle, into the house. I like how the top spins on the house. Top spins, which is pretty fun. Yeah. And I like the diverter inside of the house. You know what I like is that there's LEDs and there's windows in this house. and when you think of like Adam's family, the play field is that house and all those windows are a mode. Yeah. I'm envisioning some like modes being displayed by lighting in windows or within the house. There's a lot that you can do with the house. I see there's like spotlighting up on the house. I would anticipate some type of, you know, the play field going dark and having a strobe effect on that house, kind of like strobe multi-ball on Attack from Mars. Yeah. That would be pretty killer, like something like that. I'm really looking forward to see what they do with the house. thirdly it says beware of the deadhead family crypt this mausoleum houses a variety of characters that need an awakening courtesy of the steel silver ball to their head so that deadhead mold looks really cool yep interactive l virus junk in the trunk toy allows players to lock balls for potential frantic two ball multi balls so we have a physical ball lock instead of a virtual ball lock is that correct is that the way you're reading it yeah that's the way i'm reading it too i always prefer a physical ball lock and how it works is is underneath the ramp that comes down on the left side um when you actually get to that part the uh trunk actually lifts up and the ball goes inside of this trunk and then lifts back down cool so i i don't know if i like that just yet i really got to see that in person custom speech and a pinball first exclusive filming of elvira who's cassandra peterson for custom video scenes featured throughout the game so elvira i'm assuming is dressed as elvira for the lcd displays now for those of you that are fans of Elvira or Cassandra Peterson, she no longer does public visitation or display in her costume anymore, in her Elvira outfit. So when you see Cassandra Peterson, you're seeing Cassandra Peterson as a person and not as Elvira. So this may be the last footage of her in full costume, full dress up Elvira, and it's going to be on an LCD on a Stern pinball machine. How cool is that? I think it's very cool. I think it's very cool, too. Soundtrack includes Elvira's signature theme music and a licensed music for jump, jive, and wail and shout. So we've got some custom music, which you would expect in a pinball machine. Make your own Dang B movie trailer from various library clips of vast content. Game will programmatically. What the hell? Game will program.
    7:49
    Game's going to build a movie trailer based on the player's individual gameplay experience. So that's kind of cool. That's real cool. As you're doing different things in different order, it's going to piece something together. I like that. Stunning and distinctive hand-drawn artwork by Elvira pinball veteran Greg Freras. Now, let's talk about the artwork for a second because it's one of the things that you can really focus on. You can see the artwork, and it's not something that you have to really – well, I mean, experiencing the artwork in person is always important. So as we look at it, there's three different models, right? So this is a different tiered system where normally we have a pro, premium, and LE model of stern pinball. At this point, the buy-in model here is a premium, followed by an LE, and then followed by what's called a signature edition. Now, the signature edition is like a super LE. When we look at the cabinet artwork on the entry-level premium this time, you basically have text with a spinning spiral graphic. And then as you go to the upper-tier models, you've got Elvira, who's lounging on the couch with a different color scheme, and you've got some colored armor and that sort of thing. Any thoughts on the pinball cabinet artwork, Bill? The premium's okay. I like the LE and the Signature LE a lot better, in all honesty. I do, too. There's a definitive difference when you upgrade from the premium and you go to the LE and you go into the Signature Edition. The artwork is more detailed. It looks more fun. Now, that being said, this is one of those things where I can justify what I think is a less appealing art package on the side of a cabinet because my pins are side by side. So unless I had something in the middle of a room, like you're never going to see the cabinet artwork. I know what it is because I bought the pinball machine, but it's not a deal breaker for me to have something that's less appealing for cabinet artwork. Now, the important thing for me at that point is going to be like Translight artwork, which is like in the head of the back box. It's the first thing that you notice when you walk up to a pinball machine. It's like it's the coming soon or attraction sign. Yeah, that's what pulls you in. That pulls you in. So I do like Translight art. It looks like the Translight artwork is the same for all three models based on what Stern has on their Facebook page. And it's essentially a third of that is Elvira with kind of a stunned, shocked look on her face and with the House of Horrors in the background.
    10:01
    So as we look at the Playfield artwork, the Playfield artwork is the same as far as I know on the Premium, the LE, and the Signature Edition.
    10:08
    Do you have any initial thoughts on the Playfield artwork? because playfield artwork is something that we've been critical of from other manufacturers, and it's something that we've praised from other manufacturers. I mean, it's not included. Not everything is going to appeal to everybody, but I'm curious to get your feedback on the artwork. All right, so now that I've seen it on a 70-inch television, I can finally put this into perspective of what this doesn't have that I would have liked to have seen a little more of. Okay. I think it looks good. I don't have any real problems with it. I think I would have liked to have seen more black on the playfield. very reminiscent of uh like party monsters and scared stiff scared stiff had like a lot of like blood reds and uh and kind of like neon greens lime greens this kind of starts with like a hot pink that fades into a purple and then into like a dark blue and into a lighter blue as it goes up the play field and the game has uh quite a number of inserts and it looks like there's a lot of different ways to get into modes and start scoring the middle where you were used to having like the Stiff-O-Meter, which would have been on Scared Stiff, is now the Freak Friar. And it looks like there's at least five tiers to that, probably different ways to get that going. There's ways that can branch out. So you kind of are paying homage to that. You've got a lot of the – now, Elvira is on the play field in a couple places. It's not Elvira-heavy as far as her likeness, but she is featured in a few different locations on the play field. I imagine we'll see her a lot on the LCD animations. Oh, I'm sure. So, I mean, that's not a deal-breaker. Which makes sense why you would keep it off the playfields. Right, right. So overall, I think it's a different art package than what we've seen out of Stern lately, and that's because we're used to seeing the Zombie Yeti releases, and we're used to seeing the Chris Franchi releases. We just saw Johnny Crap and his rendition of Jurassic Park. This is Greg Ferrer's, and Greg's been in pinball artwork for such a long time. I mean, he's a Hall of Fame pinball artist. So when I look at these right now, where it might not look as heavily detailed as some of the other packages that we've seen recently.
    12:07
    So full disclosure, I'm a big Greg Ferrer's fan, right? Oh, yeah. So I think naturally I've got a little bit of bias towards Greg because the majority of everything that he's done I've really, really appreciated. And as I look at this, and I'm just kind of thinking of Scared Stiff, it's similar as far as the approach and the amount of detail, I think. And I anxiously want to see it up close because obviously you'll get a better thing. But, like, overall, like, I think I'm pretty happy with the Playfield artwork. It looks fun. It looks inviting. It looks very colorful.
    12:40
    It's not as detail-heavy as far as, like, the background of the machine as what I think I'm used to. But you do have, you know, like spider webs and cobblestones and that sort of thing. Dude, it's a great 2019 version of this game. Absolutely. I will say that without skipping a beat. But, like I said, it looks really, really good. I'm just used to the blacks. So I guess to me that's like a different transition. It's like owning the same color car for 10 years and then suddenly buy a red one. It's going to throw you off, if that makes sense. What about the layout? Because you're used to the older Bally Williams pins, the System 11s and then all the way current. Which are back heavy. They always seemed very populated, lots of toys. A lot of the play field seems like it creeps forward, you know what I mean? and as I look at this machine, to me, it looks like a lot of the action as to what's going on in this game is in the upper third of the actual play field. Now, it leaves the middle of the play field fairly open for some long shots.
    13:42
    There's some action to the left and to the right, but nothing like a bony beast ramp that's going to kind of be in your face as it crosses the play field. In fact, the left ramp looks like a quick comeback ramp. ramps I think are so fun in pinball machines. And if you're hitting ramps and it doesn't give you a visual effect or it doesn't give you a gratification of hitting that ramp, that can be a letdown of a pinball machine. What do you think as far as this layout goes? What are your impressions? Because impression-wise for me, again, first impressions, we haven't shot the pinball machine, is it just doesn't seem as feature-packed as far as in your face. Everything seems like it's neatly tucked away in the back portion of the pinball machine. Yeah, I mean, up until the detailed pictures came out, it was like, where are the pop bumpers? Now you know they're off to the back of the right. Of the right. Yeah.
    14:29
    I mean, there's seven shots going up there by that house. I think it is packed. It's just a different kind of packed, if that makes sense. I mean, just because everything's so far up there, I don't think it's a bad layout. Well, I mean, it's a typical fan layout, which fan layouts work. I don't have a problem with a fan layout. I just want to make sure that I don't have this distance that's been created between me experiencing the game down at the flippers and then the interaction that's all the way up by the speaker panel. And I'm not saying that's the case here, but this is what I'm just kind of looking at on the fly. I like to make sure that shots are a little bit closer to me in general. I would have liked to have seen a Boney Beast ramp or some sort of homage to that on a ramp. I would have loved to have seen some type of crazy ramp on the game. I'm not going to lie to you, but it is what it is. I think you get more with the house, though. So, I mean, that part I think is a good tradeoff. Excellent point I think if the house being interactive in what it looks like I mean it could make up for like an incredible ramp That being said your ramp shots have to be satisfying Now you do have like the junk in the trunk which is reminiscent to the the crate that was in Scared Stiff that was up in the middle of the playfield This one is off to the side. So, you know, again, you've got a little homage being paid and that lifts up and it looks like for your physical ball locks. Yes, which is kind of cool. It's not catapulting something across the playfield into a trunk, but it's a ramp that leads to a trunk that can be opened up, which I kind of like it. Now, remember on Scared Stiff, you kind of had like the coffin that opened and shut. So that's cool. You've got that vertical up kicker that's on the right-hand side that looks like it launches the ball like into the middle of the play field. Now, listen, nothing's more boring at this point than you listening to us explain pictures that we've seen on a pinball machine. So, you know, we can kind of cut back from that. Where do you see this pinball machine going? Now, you've got with the Super LEs, which are now called like the signature edition for this, because this is not a cornerstone game. And what I mean by that, Stern has what they call cornerstone releases every single year. Those are the main releases that come out that people are anticipating. It's what they make a ton of and it's what they sell a lot of. Yes. This is not a cornerstone. So whereas they are making, I believe it's 50 signature editions, 400 limited editions, and then an infinite number of premiums, it's not what they consider to be a cornerstone release. Now, you have Lyman Sheets that's on the code, okay? I guess where I'm puzzled is, is this not a cornerstone game because they don't anticipate the interest to be as high as some of the other licensed titles? or is this just a way to kind of have a different approach to selling limited edition games? Because when I heard about Elvira two years ago, I would assume it would have been a cornerstone release, but it's just not. But it makes sense, though, because Jurassic Park is a huge IP. Deadpool, big IP.
    17:21
    Even WWE, huge IP. Game suffers, but whatever. However, how – and I like to think in our demographic, Elvira is probably a very big IP. But to the 20-year-olds, how many 20-year-olds are going to know what Elvira is? Exactly. Yeah, no, I understand. So I could see that being a smaller market and why this is not what they would call a cornerstone game. Okay. Fair enough. That makes sense. It's funny because I had a couple people that had interacted with me on Facebook or other places, and they were expressing different thoughts. A lot of people were excited because, hey, you know, Elvira pins here. It's awesome. I can't wait to get it. And then other people were like, I just don't get it. I'm out. I don't understand. And I would always be like, well, you know what? I'm excited for this. I'm glad it's being released. I think it's going to be fun. And then the common response was, well, you're probably older than me or you've got a couple years on me. So that's probably why that's – and I think it's important for these people to realize, like, when I was growing up – okay, I'm 44 years old right now.
    18:21
    I wasn't – everybody knew who Elvira was for the most part. Oh, yeah. But I didn't dedicate a whole bunch of my life as a youth watching Elvira. But I did get a better appreciation for Elvira through pinball. And it's not because I'm like this this weird guy that's that's just creepy and wants to have like a pinball machine with a scatly clad girl that's on the trans light. And my appreciation for Elvira came in pinball. And then I was able to appreciate more of her work historically. Yeah. So when I say I'm excited about the pinball machine, it's not because I have something that looks overwhelmingly. sexy and maybe risque, it's because it's the pinball experience that I love. I scared stiff. You like the theme. I love the theme, man. Scared stiff is one of my most favorite games of all time, is scared stiff. So I've been anticipating the release of this game since we originally heard about it when Cassandra had kind of teased it a couple years ago. And now it's finally here. And I just, I want to flip it. I want to play it. I want to get involved with the game. I want to cover the game differently than maybe some other podcasters are doing. A lot of that's up in the air right now because Stern as a team is not really – they don't want – They have their own plans. They want the team to be together to talk about the game for the first time at Expo, collectively at Expo, because that's going to be like their panel. Now, you know, we've liked to do panel discussions on releases of games. And, you know, we don't pursue every single game, and it's not because of anything personal. It's just some games appeal to us more than others. And, you know, we've been invited in to do a couple panel discussions. And this game is something that I would really like to cover as a panel. It's just not going to work out for us, which kills me, because we are now waiting for that team to get together at Expo, which will be in the middle of October. Now, after the fact, it would be great maybe to be able to revisit this and see if it makes sense for us to come in and cover that game, collectively as a roundtable discussion, assuming the team would be interested. Selfishly, I'd do it for myself. You're so invested in the theme, dude. This is your Fast and Furious in my eyes. It's a lot of time and effort to do the panel. So like a month from now, I don't know that doing another panel after Expo makes sense for the people that are listening to the show. In fact, if you would like to weigh in on this, I'd be curious. I was just going to say that. This is a good Facebook poll. Yeah. You know what? We can do a poll. Or if you wanted to go ahead and even email us directly at specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com. And assuming that offer is still available and on the table, maybe we go ahead and do that. But anyways, I'm not a creepy old guy that is just looking for TNA on my play field. I'm into the Elvira as a pinball theme, and I'm excited that you've got the same guy doing the call-outs that was in Scared Stiff. I think it's awesome. You're going to have that similar kind of music and vibe. And I've been big on pinball overall experiences versus nitpicking on lack of things happening. I'm looking for concepts and emotional responses from myself. And, dude, this is such a dream team of yours. I like Elvira. I think that I like it. This is just a dream theme of yours. Yeah. That's a better way of saying it. I like it. I've got a lot of personal attachments with Elvira. I remember when Scared Stiff was here. I mean, at one point, I was hosting a pinball gathering, and Greg Ferreris, the artist, he's downstairs, and we're hanging out, and he's on my Scared Stiff. and he's on there and he's making certain shots because he's intentionally trying to hear some certain call-outs. And to watch him flip, and he's got a scared stiff, I think, at his house. And to still see that guy's enjoyment on that pinball machine when certain things happen, you could tell that a part of him is in that game. I mean, not just the artwork. It's the creativeness behind that with him and self and Dennis. Sadly, himself and Dennis are not able to kind of come together as they would have in the past because they're both at separate companies. but I know those guys are close. They still have whiz-bang pinballs, as far as I know. So I don't know, man. I can't wait to flip the game. I had emailed Zach Sharp on a couple things today from Stern Pinball, and he even said at the end of the email, he's like, I can't wait for you to play this. And I can't wait to play it, and I can't wait to stream it, because I want to be able to do that with everybody else. And I want to do that with you, Bill Webb. Absolutely. I'm looking forward to this one. So we'll see what happens with this release. And overall, so I'm very excited, and you are very waiting to see. Listen, you know what? It would be very easy for me to say, oh, dude, this house is awesome, and it's very reminiscent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I hate getting in that mindset because, you know, here, I didn't know how I felt about Jurassic Park until we actually flipped one. Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely. We flipped it and I bought it. Black Knight, Sword of Rage, something I never would have flipped. And this is the interesting thing, again, not to get heavily into the streaming. If Zach Menne, the owner and operator of Flippin' Up Pinball, if he did not send one here for us to stream, I don't know that I ever would have approached the game to get time on it. And even when it first came here, I was like, nah, I don't think it's my thing. But after like 50, 80 games, you start getting the feel for the game and the experience. And now I just think the premium, well, we have an LE here. I'm not so much into the pro model, but that premium LE package on Black Knight, it's just a freaking awesome game. It's fun. It's a really good game. Yeah, so I mean we both have that way where we really want to see stuff. Well, and the other thing is this, right? So we talk about first impressions just from looking at something visually. You have first impressions stepping up to a game and hitting the start button and plunging 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 balls on the game. You still, in my opinion, probably don't have a very good feeling of something because it's gone the opposite way. I've plunged a game or I've plunged a couple games on a pin, and I'm like, that game is freaking so fun. I don't know why I never bought this. Yeah. And then you put more time on it, more time on it. And then you're like, OK, now I realize why I probably shouldn't know. But it's still you've got to get over the honeymoon phase. Right. And then you have to make a determination as if it's a game for you. And I think a lot of us are guilty of making that decision way too early in the relationship, so to speak. You need to kind of get to know each other a little bit. You need to, you know, be cheered up or cheer somebody up. That's having a bad day. You got to just need to be a partner. Yeah. But you got to get good time on a game. I mean, that's really the defining characteristic. Honestly, I bought my getaway before I played one. Now it was a project, and I played one at Expo, and it was a terrible example. And I'm like, wow, this game sucks. And, dude, I even felt double screwed on that deal because I still had to finish the cabinet and put it together. Another great point. If a game's not working properly or isn't set up properly, it's a completely different playing experience. That's why I think it's so important. And if you get a chance, I was going to give a shout-out. Jason Fowler and Matt Kanin on Slav Save Pinball Podcast, I was listening this week. They did a really cool thing where it was like top ten things for people new in the hobby, what you should be expecting in order to kind of fulfill your pinball enjoyment. And one of the things Jason talked about is like leveling a pinball machine. It's something that a lot of people take for granted. They look at the bubble level that's on the right side by the shooter lane, and then they kind of eye it maybe up against their wall, and they think, go ahead, take the extra steps, set your games up properly. Oh, yeah. Because it makes a huge difference. World of difference. Huge, huge difference. Oh, so yeah, go ahead. I was going to say, but speaking of new releases, we had what? But we have Ghostbusters code update. Ghostbusters code update is finally here. So the eagerly anticipated Ghostbusters code update was finally revealed tonight. Jack Danger did a stream on Deadflip. Now, sadly, Bill, I was not able to catch any of that stream because I had other obligations. I'm going to try to catch some of that here in the next couple of days.
    25:49
    Without explaining what's going on with the update, because, again, I don't think anything could be more boring than walking somebody through what they saw on a stream. do you think that the changes that were made to the pinball machine, and if you're curious about those changes, you can go ahead and go to Stern's website. Is the code available for download right now? I'm not even sure if it's available. I am not sure either. I didn't look that far. You know what? Honestly, it was crazy. Wife had a doctor's appointment. She got home late, and then I was just heading over here. Okay. But, I mean, when it comes out, you'll be able to see all the changes and the updates that were made. Yeah. I think it's incredible. Okay. So you have a pro, a Ghostbusters pro. Yes. And so you had time on that pro prior to the update. So how does your pro play right now with the stock code versus what you saw on the stream tonight from Jack Danger? See, I really liked how it played before. And, you know, I've had the game for, I don't know, two months or so. And I've played a fair amount of, you know, the 1.15 code or whatever the latest release was. And I was happy with it. And I don't feel like I got shortchanged. But honestly, the changes that they've made on this, you know, the inserts are easier to coordinate your shots, you know, what you need to hit to complete certain tasks.
    27:01
    The stay puff mode that's, you know, been updated I think is awesome. Okay. The are you a god mode where the flippers shut down, the screen goes blank, you thought like you broke your damn machine. I could see, you know, well, if there were any on location and someone was that good, I could see them being like, damn, I just busted this sucker. Yeah. um and then you know it comes across are you a god across the screen and the machine goes nuts see that's that's about pinball experiences i love that wicked looking um sounds a little creepy dude it is very creepy i like it um and it's got all the call outs and stuff like that it just yeah i look i'm kind of scared to play in my basement now in all honesty so i i really like it i mean honestly there's a bunch of other modes um so yeah are you a god you know we came we saw um i didn't see you know because i was uh watching my daughter i didn't have i didn't have complete undivided attention on it yeah but you know from what i saw it looks awesome and i and i saw fair enough of it okay then i'm glad i have the game yeah and dude that code will be up up and running as quick as it can be on my game that's the thing now so for those of you that uh played the game and and sold the game because you were done with it or you thought you had your experience you've got an opportunity or you have a uh a reason to jump in front of a game again and maybe buy that game back so where the layout's not going to change the playability the enjoyment factor of the game uh sounds like it'll be increased so as a prior premium owner of ghostbusters i could absolutely myself see myself going in on a premium again because i would love to be it'd be like a new pinball machine to me there are a couple things that i talked to dwight dwight sullivan who coded the game uh congratulations dwight to finally see this through and to have this come to fruition. And there are so many changes on this game. Yeah. I literally scratched the surface on just some modes. That's it. Honestly, I strongly encourage you get on one with the updated code. Yeah. Just looks incredible. Well, and I also want to congratulate the team at Stern Pinball because I know that, you know, Dwight can only do so much by himself, and I know that he had people that were helping him out. So anybody that participated and put some blood, sweat, and tears into that code update, it's absolutely appreciated. So thank you very much. I totally lost train of thought of where I was going to go with that. But so anyways, as of right now, I'm looking at Stern's their Web page. The last update that was available was uploaded on 9-11 and that's Jurassic Park Pro point eight eight. So we have not seen that code for Ghostbusters officially announced. I think what normally happens is after the reveal within 24 hours, the code is up and ready to go. So I would anticipate that if not later tonight, tomorrow. And when I say tomorrow, that would be Thursday. And if you're listening to this on Thursday, that's when we upload. Which we are recording this on Wednesday, and we have to give a shout-out to our buddy Christopher Franchi. Yes. So Chris Franchi, he has lived for another year. He's still alive. He's a crazy man still. Happy birthday, Chris. And he, instead of donations or stuff or doing one of those things on Facebook, he just asked everybody, if you've got a pet, go buy them a new toy. Yep. You know, from Barlow. Yep. How do you go wrong there? I don't know. You know what? Good man. You can buy a new toy for your pet and flip it on pinball. You can go ahead and pick up an Elvira. House of Horrors for your cat to sit on top of the back box. And the legs are dipped in bacon oil, so the dog will be... Get that catnip mod going. Good times. You want to play some Drain It or Save It? Let's do this.
    30:26
    It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. Drain It or Save It is brought to you by Lermods.com, offering you custom quality mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. Visit Lermods.com today. Bill, why don't you take the lead today on Drain It or Save It? Dude, this is like a special edition. This is almost... Special edition. Almost creepy like a game Yes yes I like it So Bill Webb has come up with the Drain It or Save It today And for those of you that are new to the segment Drain It or Save It a topic is brought up If we don agree or we dislike we drain it If we do agree or we like it we save it. And why don't you go ahead and take the first item up on the docket, Bill. All right. Item number one, do you like seeing sequels to pinball machines? Oh, sequels. All of our party monsters, Garrett Stiff, Star Wars, Diddy, Star Wars Stern? I don't mind a sequel I'm going to save this because I think if a pinball machine Has enough of a following And you've appreciated a theme or an experience On a particular machine for so long There's only so much a code update can do over time So to see another release come out That kind of gives you a fresh look at things Maybe it's implementing an LCD Whereas before you had a DMD Or you've got upgraded sound And nowadays with LED and RGB lighting Completely can change the experience Of a prior game that you appreciated So for pinball sequels, I'm going to go ahead and save it. All right. So I am going to save it as well, only because I'm really hoping to see a Getaway 3 at some point. I know. You've been talking about Getaway 3. That's another one that's cracked me. You would have rather have seen Getaway 3 than Black Knight Sword of Rage for sure, right? Absolutely. Not that I think that it was unwarranted doing Black Knight. We all have our things that we like and IPs that we really have fawn over, and that's one for me. You think it ever gets done? You think Steve Ritchie ever does a high-speed three? I hope so.
    32:19
    But, you know. Who knows? I would love to see it, but if they didn't, I couldn't understand it. In pinball, man, nothing surprises me anymore. No, not really. So, all right. And question number three. Number two. Question number two. See, I'm testing you, man. You're doing good so far. I'm running this. It's like I'm just testing you. Because every week you test me on this stuff. I know. Normally, see, and Bill doesn't really know the Drain It or Save It prior, so I just kind of get an organic response from him. So normally, like, I just kind of sit idle and I don't have to pay attention. Not that I'm not paying attention to you, but I don't have to be on the fly. No, you're paying attention today. I already know the Drain It or Save It when I do the Drain It or Save It, so for you to throw me some Drain It or Save It, it's kind of put me on the hot seat. All right, so this was inspired by a post on Facebook. There was a gentleman who put on Facebook, why haven't they done a Titanic pinball machine? Okay. And this is funny because you and I were talking about this like two weeks ago. Right. Because I'm kind of into Titanic. You're a Titanic historian and souvenir collector. I am. A little bit. Yeah. Would you like to see a Titanic pinball machine? I would say this. I would not mind a Titanic pinball machine as long as it wasn't based on the movie. And you don't need the movie assets. You don't need Leonardo DiCaprio in that movie. But if you had some type of game, whereas maybe you are the captain or you're a passenger and you're trying to make your way through different modes to escape the sinking ship. You've got the element of time that would play a huge factor. I think for myself, the fear of drowning is one of those things that it's just like it's scary to me. I mean, nobody wants to drown. Nobody wants to burn alive. Nobody wants to suffocate. No, they didn't drown, though. Most of those people, they were just frozen. Hypothermia, right? Absolutely. So, I mean, deep water and ships don't settle well with me. But, again, that adds to kind of the uneasy factor. I could see that being made. I could see something similar, like where you're trying not to go down on a sinking ship, and if Titanic is the theme, I could see it potentially being interesting. Do I think it'll ever be made? No. Do I think it makes sense from a manufacturer standpoint to try to capitalize financially on a Titanic theme? No. But do I see the potential there if done properly? Absolutely. So I would save that. See, all right, so I love the history behind it. I love all the facts behind it. The idea of the pinball machine is really cool to me, especially if you were playing the Survivor and trying to get from third-class passengers to get to the deck to get onto a life raft. There's so many different ways you could do that, which would be awesome.
    34:53
    Because of the morbid factor, I'm going to drain it, and that sucks because I love the theme. Okay, I got you. But because of the stories and everything else I know. Yeah. And you're not big into the history of it. I'm not, but you just made me kind of feel like an insensitive jerk because I want to play pinball based on other people's tragedy and loss of life.
    35:15
    Hey, but I'm going to drain Titanic. No, we're going to keep it that way, but you're not as invested in that. Well, you know what? Because I've distanced myself from... There's such lore with Titanic. You hear it in reference. That's going to go down like the Titanic. There's a movie, the Titanic. You know, Titanic was like the boat of the time that was unsinkable. So there's this lore around it. So when you think about the ultimate demise of just about everybody that was on that ship, like, I don't, I guess I never really put it in perspective where it's actually very morbid. It's kind of, not a pinball theme, I guess, Bill. Man, why are you running Drain It or Save It? This is your last week to do that. All right, no problem. But, you know, and I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, a lot of people have that mindset, I believe. I mean, they've made Titanic redemption games. Right. I'm sure that they weren't doing it, oh, hit the button. Let's see if you can get off the boat and survive. Sure, sure. And you see these water slides in people's yards that are like the Titanic. People aren't, you know, they forget about the actual travesty of that whole situation. Oh, it's a great shipwreck. All right. Well, hey, maybe that'll be our drain it or save it poll question. Would Titanic make a good pinball machine? Drain it or save it. But I know you got a number three for me, unless you've got more you want to talk about with Titanic. No, but you know what? Honestly, to the gentleman that posted that, thank you very much for posting that on Facebook. I don't have the picture of it now, so I can't give you credit. But, you know, if you reach out, we'd definitely love to thank you. Because Ken and I were literally talking about that two weeks before. Question number three. Ghostbusters code update. And I'm not expecting you to contribute a whole lot because you didn't get to see the stream. Right. But are you excited about the Ghostbusters code update? Yeah. I mean, obviously save the code update. I think we've talked about it a lot. It was something that a group of people really, really asked for, and Dwight was able to come through with the team at Stern. So, I mean, it doesn't get any better than having your wishes come true on a game that might have been held back for some people because of some polish that's gone. It's gone beyond the polish now, and it's just kind of retransformed in the game. So I'm going to save it. And again, congratulations, Dwight and team at Stern Pinball. Exciting times. I am going to start looking for another Ghostbusters. The thing is this. You don't see a lot of Ghostbusters up for sale. At one point you did, and you don't anymore. And for those people that hung on and weathered the storm, so to speak, and it wasn't anything horrible because I liked the game as it played. So did I. I didn't understand a lot. I mean, I understood some of it. Yeah, you do. But, I mean, everything's got a shortcomings in life. Every single thing. I can complain about two or three things on every single pinball machine I've ever played. We should do that as an episode. Even Willy Wonka. We should do that as an episode. the complete complain episode. People would be like, what the heck? We could have done that today because we haven't been having the best of weeks. But, yeah, I don't know. Part of me would love to have a vent episode. I think a lot of people come to us and come to the podcast to escape their sorrow. So for them to come here and have us dump ours on them, I don't know. No, no, we can just talk about pinball and call it the pressure cooker episode. Got a little steam out. We'll do it. You will be piloting that episode. Hope it doesn't go down like Titanic. We're all filled with a little bit of hate sometimes. Yeah, for sure.
    38:26
    I heard what you said, but it didn't register until just now. So that was terrible, but great. Okay, thank you. You know. And a fun fact, Melvina Dean was like six weeks old when she was on the Titanic. And she was the last remaining survivor up until like 2013, I believe. Wow. So, fun fact for you. Titanic trivia. Yeah. With Bill Webb. So anyways. What about you? Drain it or save it? Ghostbusters. Oh, yeah. I'm terrible at this. This is why I'm fired. No, you're not. I love it. It looks awesome. I really want to play it now. Anybody that's got it, the game, I think you did good by getting the machine. I'm just really excited for it. I think that this is like the last little polish that I needed for people to kind of get over some of the code stuff. And, you know, I'm not a competitive player, and I don't worry a whole lot about codes and stuff like that and scoring deficiencies. You know, I play a game to enjoy it. So I'm not for everybody's opinion. Oh, for sure.
    39:24
    So anyways, we're going to do the recap of this, Ken, if you're ready. Yeah, let's go. All right. We both agreed on number one, which was, would you like to see more sequels? Do you like seeing sequels in pinball? So that was nice.
    39:38
    Question number two, Titanic pinball. You saved it because you had kind of forgotten the travesty of some of that stuff. But the allure of the Titanic, you know, great IP. and I drained it because a little bit more history buff and number three the Ghostbusters code update we both saved so that was our episode. Who are you going to call? of drain it or save it Thank you LureMods.com If you don't mind I was going to take a quick second because for those of you that have been following the Brian Holderman re-theme that I'm doing with him on that Stern Meteor project. Brian Holderman is a renowned artist. He did our Pinball Podcast t-shirts and so I'm teaming up with him we're re-theming a Stern Meteor to something completely different. I wanted to let everybody... This is Ken's corner, by the way. No, it's just a quick little update because I've been updating it.
    40:25
    So the Translites, the artwork's available. He sent it to me. I put it up on our Facebook page. So if you haven't seen it, Special When Lit Pinball Podcast on Facebook or email me at specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com. Some people don't go on Facebook and I'll send you the artwork. But the Translites are available and I wanted to let everybody know I'm trying to share the artwork for those that are appreciative of Brian's artwork in general and for those that might want to Just have some fun with a project that we're doing here. And real quickly, we've got limited Translites, 50 of those that are numbered and signed by Brian. They're $150. And if you don't need a signature or a numbered edition, you can get a regular Translite. It's the same Translite, just minus those things for $99. You can pick them up at Expo if you want to go ahead and order. I'll bring your order to Expo if you want to pick it up in October. And if you want shipping, I'm just asking for another $10, and that's for me to put it in a poly bag. in a tube and then shipping within the United States. If you're outside of the country, message me. We'll figure out what the – actually, I had somebody ordered one from Poland today. That is awesome. Yeah, so check this out. So, all right, let's do a little – A little backstory. Well, not even a backstory, but I'm just curious. How much do you think it costs for me to ship a $150 Ellie Brian Holderman Translate? Now, the name of the game is called Cherry Atomic. Okay? Cherry Atomic is the name of the female hero, and she's an intergalactic bounty hunter slash assassin. And she's got a little bit of sass, and she's ready to take care of some business. So that's the theme of the whole game. How much do you think it costs for me to roll one up into a tube, a craft tube, and put the caps on it and ship it? It's about a pound and a half, and ship it to Poland. I'm going to say $75. You know what? You're not far off. I think it was $57. Okay. So it actually wasn't so terrible. I was within 20%. And it's like $190 probably to Canada. I don't understand. But yeah, no, you're in the area. I thought it was going to be a little bit more. So for those of you that are looking for that artwork, it's there. Full disclosure, am I going to be making money on the Translites? Yeah, I'm going to be making a little bit of money on the Translites because I'm going to use the money from the Translites to finish the project, to do a full restoration on a meteor and then have a new playfield see and seed and have brand new artwork screened onto that playfield to have mirrored back glass, plastics, cabinet artwork. You're re-theming the whole machine You're not repurposing Everything You're not repurposing plastics You're doing the whole machine So there is absolutely profit built into the Translight sales And that is to help fund The rest of the build And the build is actually Over what I considered What I wanted my budget to be But I think the Translight sales will help even that out And I'll be able to see the project through The goal is to have it done by 2020 Expo time So Chicagoland Pinball Expo next year. I wanted to go there. And then with the help of the community. Now, this is cool, too. So I've had people that have reached out to me within the pinball community, some people that are involved in services and mods and stuff. And they're like, well, if there's anything that I can do to contribute to the game. I said, absolutely. I said, I don't want you to provide anything for free. Let me pay you for your service. Yeah. But I would like there are a select few out there that reached out that I really would like to have their product involved in the pinball machine. And and I think that's fun, too, because when the pinball machine is actually revealed, I want to give credit to everybody that has a piece of their pinball inside of this machine. So it's kind of like collectively we built a machine that is going to be different. And again, the machine I was going to ask for those of you that are going to different shows.
    43:52
    If you would be interested in taking the game to a show and setting it up because you're going to have a booth or whatever, I'd absolutely be willing to figure out a way to kind of loan that machine to you because I want the machine to get exposure. I want people to see what a Stern Meteor, totally rethemed by Brian Holderman, looks like. And I want people to get on the game and play it. And it's going to be a show pony game, man. And I hope it – obviously, I hope the project turns out the way I like. But the way the Translight is looking right now, I'm excited to see how it goes. Real promising, dude. Sorry for taking up that little bit of time. Not a sales pitch here. I just wanted to update everybody on the process or the progress of the game and let everybody know that artwork's available. Artwork looks incredible. Yes. Yes, he did a great job. So definitely check it out. Shout out to Brian Holderman. I'm having Brian on the show here in a few weeks to kind of discuss what's going on with the direction of the pin. The next thing that we're doing now is we're going out to the play field artwork. And I think he's going to be tackling that, like he said, in November. So that'll be the next step of the process. And it is what it is. What's going on with you, man? What's happening? Nothing, man.
    44:55
    Just, actually, the elusive unicorn game. I think I'm waiting for confirmation. Let me guess, elusive unicorn game. Would that be the Big Lebowski? Not my elusive unicorn game, not anybody else's. Well, we've wanted a Big Lebowski for a while. I did, but you know what, man? That's a little out of reach and a little bit too much drama attached to that. High Speed 3 Rethink. No. All right. I don't know. What do you got? So long to the short, over the weekend I saw somebody post on Facebook again, check out this ad for Cactus Jacks. I'm like, no kidding. Let's check it out. Cactus Jacks. Cactus Craps, as our friend Todd Tuckey called it in one of the videos. Right. So I saw this. I'm like, wow, maybe this is something worth digging into. And eBay price, it was at a bargain at $7,999.
    45:49
    Whoa. Wait. Cactus Jacks. Not Cactus Canyon. Was $8,000 on eBay? Yes. What? Dude, I literally screenshotted that because I knew you wouldn't believe it, or anyone else on this podcast. All right, listen. With respect to the seller, actually, did you work a deal out with the seller? Do I go into questionable launch mode right now, or what do I do? No there a reason why this didn make the whole exchange Oh say grand Bill Eight grand for Cactus Jacks Yeah at that point I could probably build a cactus canyon You could buy a good part of the desert for eight grand and have cacti all over the place Oh, absolutely. So just so you can see and verify. I'm looking at it right now. So Bill just, Premier Gottlieb Cactus Jacks pinball machine, $7,999, and they're offering free local pickup. they should have offered you a free pin bot at that price or something oh my gosh you should get a free cactus canyon you should get a free jurassic park all right with that pinball machine now listen i understand capitalism and and and if someone's gonna pay that that's great but how does somebody run a price comp on cactus jacks and think that that's uh and it's missing legs and it's missing the legs wait it doesn't it doesn't come with legs that's extra Honestly, they were missing. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I don't even know what to say, man. The pinball hobby's gone crazy. I was shaking my head, and I was having like Tourette's and the shakes. Where are you going with this story? Because there's no way you negotiated somebody down from eight grand to a price that I know that you would pay a Cactus Jacks for. This I do know. So I literally messaged the seller. I'm like, hey, listen. I love these stories. I am interested in purchasing your game. I think your price point might be a little high, though. Right. I said, here's my offer, and here's the pin side. Do you want to care? Can you disclose the offer, or do you not want to do that? All right, well, tell the story. I'm going to interrupt because I'm shocked right now. No, that's fine. All right. So I'm like, here's a pin side link. Please look at what this game is actually bringing in real time. Okay, so like the estimated value based on prior sales type of thing? Not 2419 pricing. Right. So, you know, he goes, well, you know, what are you offering? And I, you know, offered him my price, which was, you know what, I'll say it, dude. I offered him $1,200.
    48:06
    Whitefield's got some planking. It's not in great shape. I don't care, though. We've talked about it enough, dude. You just needed him to come down $5,799. Just a little bit. For you to feel comfortable getting into a Cactus Jacks today. Yeah, so he was shrewd negotiator, and he came back and he goes, dude, I got somebody that just offered me $2,000 for it. Even that's amazing. So I felt like saying either you're a liar or not. So I'm like, wow, dude, that's great. Take that money and run. Congratulations on the sale. And that's literally what I put. Exactly. And, you know, of course, a day later he's like, well, that sale fell through. I'd still sell it to you for $1,200. I'm like, okay. So we're just working out some shipping things. And, dude, it's not the cleanest game, but they only made $1,300 of them. Is it worth shipping it for $400?
    48:58
    You're going to be into the $1,700 for Cactus Jacks. Maybe a little lighter than that. Okay. Well, yeah. I got you. Well, hey, no disrespect to the seller. It's in Michigan. Okay, so you can kind of meet halfway type of thing. But, I mean, come on, $8,000 for Cactus Jacks? I mean.
    49:17
    I think that is worse than Gilligan's Island, dude. Bill, like 99% of pinball machines aren't worth $8,000, and Cactus Jacks is not in that 1% of elite pinball. I'm laughing at this because I know a little more of the back story than you do. All right. And the seller deals in food restaurant equipment. Okay, so he's not a pinball guy. He's not a pinball guy whatsoever. All right. I hope I'm not sabotaging your deal here. Seller, I apologize. I hope I did not offend. That was not my intention. I don't think he even knows who the heck what a pinball podcast is. All right. Well, good. Which is why I'm telling the story. Nobody knows what a pinball podcast is. I don't think he does. There's a couple thousand people that know. That's it. It's a secret club. Well, when you hear the guy say, listen, I'll figure out how to pull the glass off back again, I call that safe as far as pinball people, you know, or not pinball people. Right. So that was just sheer entertainment. And, you know, I'm not blasting the guy because he didn't know. Right. And honestly, the stuff that he had listed was big dollar stuff, you know, 10, 20 grand equipment. I got you. He just threw it up there. Well, I'll congratulate you when you get the Cactus Jack. I've heard so much about it. It's a John Norris game, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've not flipped Cactus Jacks ever. I just, it's a running joke between the two of us, you and this Cactus Jacks. I know you own a Translight of Cactus Jacks. I do, a new old stock one. Now I have something to put in it. The Translight, yeah, there you go. That's good. Yeah, so you know what? I'm excited to have it. I know it's terrible. I just hope to God that literally two weeks later I'm not pulling it out and putting it up on pin side, but it might happen. It might be a good garage pin for you, because you've got a nice garage. Just to have something to flip outside might not be a horrible thing. No. Because you're not going to build a cabinet for Cactus Jacks and make it a show. So you would build a cabinet and make it a show pony cactus jacks, wouldn't you? So, oh, my gosh. Here we go. This is going to be the world's most expensive cactus jacks. But full disclosure, man, I was like, all right, this play field sucks, man. Let's just see if there's anything out there. Of course, what do you think I found? Did you find a new old stock play field or a populated? I found a restored one. Okay. So I was like, well. You're going to do a play field swap on cactus jacks? Hey, listen, dude, I guarantee you I'll probably be the only person in the free world that will ever do a play field swap on a cactus jacks. You're going to be into Cactus Jacks well over $3,000 when you're all set. The world's most expensive Cactus Jacks. You're getting into shadow territory price-wise for Cactus Jacks. Just be mindful. Yeah. I don't know if I'll do that, but we'll see. I don't know. I'll support whatever you do, man. Hey, it was a great story. I look forward to ordering legs for it so I can play the thing. I might have some legs for you here, but I think they might take different style legs. I have no idea. I don't know. Hey, you know what, man? Just sit sitting there. And because Jurassic Park, my wife forgot that Jurassic Park is coming into the house. So we got into it over the weekend. I'm like, listen, you knew about this. You have just forgotten. Bill, I forget what you're bringing in your house. And we talk frequently. I don't know what's coming in. I don't bring that much stuff in. You bring a lot of stuff. You got Cactus Jacks coming in. I'm sure she's thrilled about that. Well, that's why she got pissed today. She's like. She's getting upset every day. Are you kidding me? I'm like. You got pins coming in from all over the United States, man. I got this thing for a few hundred dollars. It's fine. Starting to wonder what's going on. You working a little part-time job somewhere else? Yeah, I got a go-fast boat. Freelancing on the side? Got a go-fast boat, and I go to Miami occasionally and run stuff to Cuba or from Cuba. Right, part of the cartel or what? Holy cow. So we'll see. No, but I had some stuff that I'm going to offload to pay for this one, but it's fine. Good times, man. I guess I'm excited for you. If you're happy, I'm happy. I'm happy and also sad. I need to build my collection back up. I've liquidated some assets to facilitate the purchasing of equipment and upgrading our studio efforts, So I'm looking forward to kind of be done with that in October and start going back in. And I think what will end up happening is I will be looking again for Ghostbusters Premium. Yep. I will consider Elvira, assuming that the game plays well. We've got to play it first, right? The nice thing about that is streaming for Flippin' Out, we'll have a game here at some point. And we'll be able to get as much time on it as we want. And then, you know, we can buy it from Zach if we want to because it's already here. Yeah. Right? And at that point, it's coming. Pre-shipping at that point. Yeah. So it's like getting a pin for free shipping, and I'll take it. But other than that, I'm kind of trying to figure out if I could. And I'm not going to go, hey, our top five pins that we want. But I'm thinking of what would be like four or five pins to kind of put back in the collection. That's what I'm thinking. And right now, dude, I'm kind of, I have all that. So here, that fits the creepy, stupid kind of game the Cactus Jacks does. Yeah. You know, to me, it's like another version of 1812. And if it's anywhere kind of close to it. I lost all interest in 1812. Only because people piss you off. That's what it was. I had such bad experience trying to deal with people that had 1812s for the most part. Which one? I just got flustered. As I'm saying, a lot of people that had 1812s thought they had Cactus Jacks that were worth $8,000. So I was like, man, do I really need to go through it? Because a big part of it, and I think a lot of people will agree with me, right? It's like when you are looking for a specific title, sometimes it's hard to find the title. But every so often, like, you find a deal on a game that maybe you weren't anticipating to buy. But it's the thrill of finding the deal that's more enjoyable sometimes than actually acquiring and playing the pinball machine. And I also notice, like, if you're looking for that grail pin, like, if you're looking for that cactus jacks. There's one more that I'm looking for after this. It's the chase. You know what I mean? And then once the chase is over because you have it, there's, like, a letdown period because, like, the anticipation of waking up and looking on a daily basis is gone. What's your next pin that you're looking for?
    54:47
    Okay, real quick. Before I let that count. And we'll wrap this episode up here in a few minutes because we're coming up on the hour mark, and we don't get to go too much longer, but I enjoy this conversation. I had a Demoman. I liked it, but it was a crummy. Not crummy, but it wasn't the example I wanted because I'm trying to get nice and soft. The one you just sold? No, no, no, no, the one last year in October. It was a good player condition, and honestly, I wanted a nicer one. So, dude, what do I find? Our friend had a Demoman, paid him for it. shop this thing it's beautiful it's a nice one and yeah i mean you've seen everything everything on the top of the play field is either new equivalent because it looks new or it's it is new um guess what dude i'm kind of burnt on the game so it's like you know this sucks because i you know i chased after it again and i got it and now it's like yeah so ripley's ripley's believe it or not is one that i still would like to find i would get rid of demo man for ripley's and i think my collection would be complete for a long time interesting i know like stern dmd era because now the lcd era is like so fresh like and i've gone through these cycles where there was a long time where it's like you know what man i don't like this new stuff it's all classic bally williams for me that's all i want and then you know you get like a dmd stern over time and you're like oh this is awesome like this is like brand new stuff and and it's flashy and it's led and i'm gonna take a pass on the older classic stuff and then the lcd stuff is coming out you're in the lcd stuff and then it's like oh early solid state oh that's some crazy fun games and then a game like tna comes out and you don't know what to believe anymore because it's like classic solid state with modern day technology so like right now i'm in like the the the buying of newer stuff and uh like again i think jurassic park is a fabulous freaking game man and willy wonka is just a fabulous game um that monster bash remake is stellar pretty impressive the only thing that holds me back on going in on one is is i wonder in a smaller collection like mine if the longevity would be there code wise but uh but it's still such a it presents so well and it's such a fun pinball experience um but yeah i don't know like i said alvira could be one like i'm in a new phase right now like i'm looking at my buddy's lord of the rings uh steve beaty he's got it here i'm fostering it and uh there's a pin that i've been wanting for a long time yeah but it's like and And it's highly touted as one of the best Sterns, if not the best Stern pinball machine of all time. And I can't get into it for some reason. You know what I think it is? The game still has the incandescence on it. And I can't look at a game that has incandescent lighting. Listen. I need LED lighting, man. I totally understand that. Because we played a Monster Bash that was in terrible shape. And I thought Monster Bash sucked. To say it in so few words, yes. That game blew because it looked like somebody smoked all over it and put it in. It was like an ashtray. Crack light bulbs, because I mean, like, that's how dim they were. Yeah. And I was like, I don't understand the appeal of this game. Yeah. I played this Monster Bash, and honestly, this will be another one that I will have. I'm not lusting after this. This isn't like. And the Monster Bash LE that we have is on loan from CGC. So again, we're fostering this one. But yeah, I mean, it's night and day as far as the experience on the exact same game. Because we never had a nice, clean one to play. No, no. And it's set up properly, and it's just beautiful. and every time you turn it on, it's just like it's awe-striking to me. It's just, in my opinion, Bill, and I don't know, I might be going out on a limb here, but I don't know that I am. It may have, again, it may have the most impressive light show on any pinball machine that I've ever put a lot of time on anyways. Because TNA has a really awesome light show. Pirates of the Caribbean has a really awesome light show, the new one by Jersey Jack and Eric Minier. But as far as a game that I've had in my collection. This one is awesome. Or in the studio, it's the best light show, the best use of RGB lighting I've ever seen. It's just unbelievable. I don't know. It is. I'm not going to make that statement. I agree with you. It's incredible. I think it's awesome. Yeah. To say it's the best? It's the best that I've had in the studio. I get it. So that's for sure. And I'm not a pinball purist, right? So there are people that, hey, I want to keep the game as it was intended by the designer or the artist with the lighting and everything. that's i can completely appreciate that approach and i commend those that are pinball purists i'm not i want to take something to the next level for me and for me that's led lighting and it's not warm leds either like there are some games that warrant warm led lighting but i like i like the the super freaking bright like ultra white leds you know what i mean we're especially you're not a warm white guy either i'm not a warm white guy no i'm not i i know that you don't mind it right? No, I do mind it. That's one of the things that I'm going to have to do on Jurassic. Okay, so I was going to say Jurassic Park has like a warm LED or like a sunlight type LED inside of it, and to me, I don't think that looks bad. There's a lot of earth tones in the play field, so it complements well, but I would love to see that game with... Yeah, but dude, I got plans for my Jurassic Park, though. Cool white LEDs. Yeah, you do. Do you want to discuss any of those plans, or do you want to reveal that another time?
    59:54
    How about we just leave that as a cliffhanger? All right, we'll cliffhanger into episode 71. We're at 70 episodes, man, so we keep the streak alive of consecutive weeks of pinball podcasting, which is nice, and we try hard every single week, and we're not going to stop trying hard. And if you're into streaming and you like our streams, too, feel free to send one that way, too. That would be crazy. So we started that flipping out pinball stream with Zach, and that's been going really, really well, man. And I'm not going to go into discussion about streaming, but it's just that Monday night is so fun. And there was an opening that was produced and edited up by Zach Many. It was like a parody to the Monday Night Football opening. It's called Monday Night Pinball. Then the lyrics were sung. You guys that are in pinball watching the website so you guys know Lucas Pefke. He sang this version of Monday Night Pinball to Zach's studio edited video.
    60:48
    It's killer. I will post that on the Facebook page tomorrow or today because I'm so proud to even be playing a part in that. I didn't do anything with the creative process there. No, no, no. It was all Zach and it was all Lucas, but it's just pretty fun. Again, the Special Unlit Family is extending all over the place. We're almost at 700 likes on Facebook, too, man. I'm telling you, it's just growing. The listener numbers are growing, and it's stunning. We're going on Instagram, too. Yeah, Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it takes.
    61:20
    I think that's it, man. We good? Yeah, I think so. We just got to give our LearMods a shot. Yep. Thank you very much. LearnModels.com. Pinball Expo is coming up October 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th. We'll talk more about that here in the coming weeks. We encourage you to get there if you can. Come shake our hands. Say hello. Let's have a beverage or a beer. For Bill Webb, I'm Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.