thanks for tuning into the loser kit pinball podcast it is episode 158 i am josh roop with me my co-captain as always scott larson and there is a new new ish release a remastered release let's do that it's a revived release yes brought back from the grave which is appropriate because It's even got a cross in it. That's true. It's the Lazarus effect. If you're looking for this game, Metallica Remastered, who are you buying it from, Scott? You know, I'll contact Zach and Nicola, flipping out pinball. They've always been really helpful. And I'm not kidding. This game looks so amazing. I've actually never owned a Metallica. And so I'm looking forward to actually owning this remastered Metallica. So I'm really excited for it. And with everything they've done to it, and we're going to talk about it, it really has made an old game look brand new. And so reach out to Zach and Nicole, and the holidays are coming up. So tell them Loser Kid sent you. Use Loser Kid as a code or whatever, and they'll hook you up. Yeah, they'll give you a little something extra special is what they told us. So special we can't talk about here, but hit up Zach and Nicole, and they'll give you something a little extra special. They'll hook you up. Also, if you're watching YouTube, I'm wearing my political shirt, my flippers and balls for 2024, straight down the middle. If you want this shirt, because that's who you were voting for this year, then go ahead, silverballswag.com slash loserkid. It's not our shirt, but you can get this shirt there as well. Are you team flipper or team balls? Always team balls, dude. Okay. All right. Especially if you're going straight down the middle. There you go. All right. Introducing our guest. This man has been insanely on top of his game since moving to Stern. His code is excellent between classics already like Rush and now being able to take the Metallica code and refine it, but still have the nuances of Lyman and just treat it like it's just this perfect little thing that we all enjoy, right? We've got with us Raymond Davidson. How are you doing, Raymond? Hey, Josh. Doing good. You know, and Raymond's actually a pretty good pinball player, too. just in case you're wondering. Yeah, what Stern and the Union went out and you're ranked in the Stern Pro Circuit right now, was it fifth or sixth? Probably somewhere around there. I seem to be floating around fifth or sixth in everything, like in IFPA rankings, Stern Pro Circuit, IFPA rating. It's just kind of where I've ended up with all these new kids blowing everything up. You're like the elder statesman now of pinball tournaments. Yeah, it's fun. but every once in a while I can still sneak a win in there. So that's why we love pinball, right? Yeah. So that actually was one of the questions. Kevin refers on slam tilt or on triple drain, but do we count you as one of the young guns still, or do we finally get to count you as one of the old guns? They're a senior tour. They're a senior tour. I'm definitely not a young kid. I mean, I am a young kid, but not relative to the kids winning everything. Yeah, but they don't even have a driver's license yet. You don't get carded in an R-rated movie. So, okay, you've actually had two projects between Rush when you worked with Borg last, and now that you're working with him again on Metallica, you did Venom, and you also did – it was just Rush and Venom. I'm losing my mind. Well, I didn't really do Venom. I helped Venom. You were assisting, right? I did some stuff on it, and also I did some stuff on John Wick. A lot of times I'll, you know, parachute people in to kind of help just distribute the workload a little bit. So, but like Rush, Led Zeppelin and Foo Fighters were my, I wasn't the lead, but I was the, you know, the other half or like kind of the principal other person working on it. You know, kind of saw it all the way through from beginning, middle and along with the lead. whereas yeah so with foo fighters sorry were you the leader you weren't no tanya kleiss is the lead on foo fighters but i was you know lead wingman or whatnot so me and him kind of tag teamed it okay but you know you've got quite the repertoire between and and i mean it's a heavy workload there's all this the thing is is pinball's become very software heavy in the last decade or so if if not a little bit before that. And so like looking at this, and like you said, Venom, even if you're tag teaming on Venom, between that and Foo Fighters and Rush and Zeppelin and Avengers, I mean, that's quite an amazing little list of games. In the four years you've been there, five years now? Yeah, I mean, I've touched quite a bit. I did work on Jurassic Park during the co-op update, the Jurassic Park 30th update, helped juice up some of those controller modes. and yeah Avengers was when I started on when I first got here I also did some tweaks on Iron Maiden it's just kind of you know whatever wherever they need you and then at one point they were like we need you to do Metallica and I'm like and they're like yeah you're the lead I'm like oh all right so yeah okay so tell me about one when did um when did this idea come about that we are going to revisit metallica uh man i don't know a couple like probably what you're 20 i mean i started i knew about it at the end of like last year so like a year ago from now is when i kind of got the rumblings of like this is coming but i'm sure it was in the works before then you know i just didn't hear about it well the the nice thing about something like this is that this is really a new avenue that stern is opening up because we've always done vault editions with stern so they've been able to bring back another game for a release i i i swear they had like they ran star trek on the line like every year for about five years where they're like okay now we're uh gonna do a quick run of star trek and it was always interesting so i'm like i i didn't know like you needed star trek anymore but uh hey however this is you know this is a way of taking a game that was early dmd well sorry not early dmd but early in the last in the okay the the renaissance of stern so i'm gonna call like everything past acdc where it's you know it's kind of like the bally williams the glory days in the 90s It seems like everything past ACDC has been this new resurgence of pinball, and it's on the earlier side of that, so it's 11 years old. But when you walked up to a Metallica, it did feel different because even though the game was set up amazing, the layout, the code, it still presented like an older game just because it was DMD and we have moved on to LCD. so this is actually an interesting avenue that stern is is approaching and um i heard that they were toying a little bit with doing a dmd you know kind of like a vault edition first is that it is is that correct they were maybe they were just exploring all options i have i have no idea the only story i know is that the band saw like um i think it was rush but it was like lcd con Like, wow, why don't we have something cool like this? That's I think that's that's all I know about it. That was my suspicion, actually, that Metallica actually saw what the what you're able to do with the modern music pins. And even though there's was great, it's still you know, it was kind of in the early days of the music pin. And so you can see how far they've come. that's actually pretty amazing to say okay we're going to do it however the approach is hey we have this layout that's legendary it's a top 10 layout we have code you know the late great lime and sheets and we're going to do something to bring it more modern so how was this pitch to you? uh pitch to i mean yeah i was just said i was told it's gonna be uh a remaster essentially you know the old same same layout and rules mostly of the old game but we're gonna put all of our new hardware org's gonna tweak some things that didn't work as well the first time around he's gonna add new fancy cool things um you know just because he wants to because he's you know a creative dude who likes cool so sorry my french there but um yeah that's kind of all uh all it really was it was just borg um you know i was going to make this awesome newer version and i was going to help with software so like scott pointed out i mean this the original rules was done by the late great Lyman sheets. And so how do you take a rule set that's so beloved? And so, I mean, it's just, this game has been revered as one of the top Stern games ever made. How do you take a code set like that and expand upon it, but keep the nuances and keep that original vibes and feelings without feeling like you're overwriting what Lyman did? Well, I guess for me, I just started with what he had there already. So my primary goal when I started on the project was to get the game to just run in Spike 2, you know, with the DMD animations sort of working and with everything, the rules and stuff, basically just try to get the existing game working. And then once I did that, then I just went in from there, you know, iterated, replaced, you know got the new animations in um you know and then eventually um the new modes kind of just put those in on top of everything else that was going on um you know i had to come up with kind of different rules nuances um but just yeah just kind of everything was just layered in like um you know on top so so someone who has owned metallica or been familiar with it what are the different code options that you are going to be adding to a game that they should be very familiar with i mean this game is what 11 years old and and it's been played to death in tournaments and so what are the extra options that you said i'm gonna tweak this and i'm gonna move this yeah so um basically there's just more to do in single ball play now um because before i felt it was all you know you had to rush to a multiball and if you weren't in multiball you were just you weren't doing anything. So I kind of wanted to fill in the gaps. And so the 72 seasons mode will reward you for hitting those dangerous stand-up targets, but only when you're in single ball play will those qualify. But then you have a chance for some, you know, some big scores. But it just gives you something else to do, because a lot of times in tournaments you'd have played your multi-balls already and now you're kind of trapped and you're in jail and so I kind of just wanted to have something to fill that that dead air um so the other mode hardwired um I felt the game didn't utilize all the shots you know as much as it could so for hardwired you have to hit all five shots you know the right ramp left ramp right orbit left orbit great marker lane and to just kind of reward the player for like hey if you're in single ball play um and you know you hit the right ramp It'll advance you towards this hardwired thing. It just kind of gives you more things to kind of look and see, like, all right, I'm 10 hits to a multiball, but I'm only this shot and this shot towards hardwired. So maybe I'll start that mode first. And then, of course, because, you know, keeping in the spirit of the rules that Lyman had, if you start something, you can always bring it into a multiball. So if you want, you know, you can start in single ball, get your mode set up, start them, then start multiball now you've got the party going um so that was kind of my uh my thoughts on how the new the two new modes should should fit in well and i heard there's some special extras that you guys have put in here too i know john board was very uh proud of blackened and what you guys have put in there and he said he wasn't gonna he told us the easter egg but i guess you you're gonna have to get the game and and find it yourself but uh there's just little nuances you guys had put in there as well yeah well i can talk a little bit about blackened um it's not in the code right now so the one that ships you know that's they're shipping tomorrow you know um but it will be in a future update pretty quickly um but the idea for blackened is it's um sort of a reward for playing all four multi balls um really well so if you if you get you know a couple of super jackpots in the electric chair multiball, a couple super jackpots in the gray marker multiball, and so on, and all four. And it also makes you pay attention. Like, normally people would never go after snake multiball, but now, you know, well, if you get snake, now you get this blackened multiball too, if you get all, you know, all four. But I also wanted to reward people. So the better you do in the multiballs, the better blackened will be. So if you do, you know, really well in some of the multi balls blackened could be like a three, four, five ball multiball. If you kind of do the bare minimum, it might only be a two ball multiball. Um, but that's still cool because it's still a new multiball and that people can experience and it will have a really cool intro intro sequence, um, that, that, you know, we don't want to spoil as Josh alluded to. Um, but that'll be cool. And, um, yeah, so I think that's a really cool way because it kind of, uh, another mode, You know, Borg added those extra inserts above the right scoop so that, you know, he thought it was clever to just kind of, oh, we can have a second story of things over here. And so Black and Fit over there, along with Hardwired. So, yeah, everything was just kind of very nicely, you know, sprinkled in with care to try to keep it cohesive with the original game. so you spoke earlier about layering uh spike 2 and sam systems and whatnot together um were you also kind of writing programs so it would make it easier in the future if if maybe you want to go back or was this just kind of like a we did as we go kind of thing uh i mean i was kind of learning as i was doing it um so i mean i have to go back and look at all my you know, things that I did and kind of refresh myself or see like, oh, yeah, this is how you convert this to this. This is how I did this to this. But, you know, as I'm going through it, I'm just finding things like, oh, the last, you know, the Sam game used a lamp matrix. Now we have node boards. So instead of a row and a column for a switch, it's a node board address and a device LED or whatever. So there's like just sort of that translation that had to happen and then testing it. And also like, you know, the Sam game for like lamps, you could have it had like have an older way of Sam was it was very binary with like things were either on or off. So like flash lamps were either on or off. Coils were either on or off. whereas spike there's a lot more nuance of you can light it up you know maybe 50 60 you can fire the coil 40 you can hold it for 30 um so when when you're translating all that you have to kind of be careful and you know try to keep it the same um but using the new kind of version of those those calls with uh okay so walk us through a little bit more about the sam versus so explain to me like a five-year-old because i know nothing about coding and so when to me when i hear about an old thing i think about well why isn't there just like some algorithm where you plug it in and it just automatically converts it or just reads the code you know just making like spike two or even you know spike three four whatever make it so it can just read the old code and reverse engineer it. Like, tell me why that doesn't work. Well, you need a human to figure out, you know, what should be what. Once you kind of figure out how it gets from one to another, you can, you know, do find all, replace all. But then you'll find bugs too, so you've got to test everything. So you've got to go through, you know, file by file after you've translated it and try those modes out and make sure that nothing got lost in translation. I was finding maybe some light effect wasn't showing up or wasn't showing up with the intention that it should have. Like one example was the RGBs were all out of 100 on SAM. So it was like the red level could be 0 to 100, 0 to 100. but then on spike we kind of went with zero to 255 and so before i realized that that had changed i was noticing the colors were a little off or they were too dim or you know weren right So it was just a lot of trial and error because only you know what right You know, you need a human to kind of know what is right and what is wrong. So was it kind of surreal working on this game considering, I assume this was when you played Plain Terminates. It's kind of known as a classic game. Is it just something you're like, you never thought you'd work on kind of thing? it was pretty pretty uh wild you know when i first got heard heard that i was on it um you know and it was like well this is a really popular game you know people are gonna expect it to be uh correct people are gonna notice everything um and it's it's a big ask but i was also very excited because i liked the game and i had played it a bunch so i had no problem you know every day working on it you know it felt fun because i was just trying to get it to be awesome like you know and it was cool because you have like the answer key right so i'm working on the code and i have the answer key of what it should do and but like i haven't got there yet so it was like a fun little exercise where i'm like code code code code code okay let's see how it looks okay now compare that to the old one you know that was kind of the process so did you have like an old one and a new one that's exactly what I was saying did you have an old one and a new one next to each other so you could test it out simultaneously yeah eventually we found we got an old Sam up and running but it was I mean a lot of it I actually kind of went to like YouTube videos and other coverage to see you know how the old game worked and just like kind of logic and reasoning and remembering things but yeah every once in a while I'd have to go and kind of just double sanity check, like, okay, did the old game do that? And I actually found a couple of bugs and stuff doing, like, throughout it. So, you know, I was noticing, like, oh, that's weird. The old game has this code that's supposed to light up the fuel lane orange, like, when the fuel jackpot is lit. But it just doesn't work because it's bugged because this logic is out of order. and I went and checked on the old game and I'm like, yep, it wasn't me. It was originally bugged. So then I fixed it. And so that was cool to kind of uncover little things and make them better. So it was pretty fun. I have to say, the new code is amazing. We got Scott and I, well, Scott didn't get to play as long as I did, but I wasn't giving up the game. I'd rotate, obviously, while we were there at Stern, But we were there for at least a good two or three hours and just playing this game over and over. What made me chuckle, though, there was one point where I was playing and I drained, but I thought the ball save was on. But it was because all the lights were flashing on the game. And I said, no, the ball save's on. And you ran right over, Ray. And you're like, no, that's a sin. That's like the cardinal sin, right? You had mistaken the 72 seasons light for the ball save light. Yeah, no, I never used, we never, you know, even in linemen I was looking, he always masked out all the important lights, the ball state, shooting in lights, like the out lane lights should always be on, you know, and that sort of thing. I just loved how you were so making sure you had to be in the car. Like a dog whistle for a coder, yeah. I love watching, I hate when things are wrong. Like that is one thing I hate is when I see something that is wrong because I want to fix it. I have done a – and this is interesting, and this is just how my brain works. There are times when I get fooled out when, like, the shoot again is illuminated on certain games, and it's, like, the same area as the ball save, but it's not flashing. It's just solid. And so I'll let it drain and then realize I just screwed up. Or you had an extra ball. Yeah, yeah. I just had an extra ball. I was like, oh, okay. Well, technically, you get to shoot again. I do get to shoot again. Yeah, that's fine. so how was it different being a lead versus the other games that you've worked on uh the main difference is there's no one kind of above you to you know kind of check with like is this okay if i do this it's like well ask yourself is this okay if i do this like you're kind of the one who decides uh you know when you're talking about either risky things or like um If you're kind of weighing decisions one way or the other, you can still ask people, you know, if you need help with things. And sometimes I would bounce ideas off of people. But in the end, it's like me who makes the final call, not someone else. Whereas before, it was always me who was kind of giving ideas and talking and like, what do you think of this? Is this okay? I'm going to do this. Is that okay? Whatever. And then someone else would sometimes veto it or they'd be like, yeah, that's awesome. Let's do it. So now it's all on me. was uh is it harder to convert an old code into new language and new software or is it is it harder to come up with the rules from scratch well i guess the code from scratch because so when you had to when you had to translate from an older language right yeah but i I mean, with a new game, you have to do all of the stuff plus come up with everything on your own. Whereas, at least for me, I had a lot of it already there. So I just had to make it work and kind of improve things and tweak things, whereas it wasn't just an empty file. you know so um so it i'd be lying if i said there was more work you know doing this than like a full cornerstone game but also i'm the only one on this game like i i didn't have any support or anyone else so it was just me the whole time um so it kind of worked out that way um but it was still a ton of work it's just it was a ton of work for one person instead of three or four and so that's kind of you know I spent a lot of days putting in the new animations making sure the text would show up in the right spots and you know making sure I get sounds from Jerry to put in for the new animations one thing that was a big thing I really wanted to preserve was the display presentation priority so on Metallica everything is kind of you know it'll show you the jackpot effect right away, and then if something else happens, it'll show you that right away. It's just kind of like, as soon as something happens, it checks, like, am I a higher priority than this other thing? Like, show me versus don't show me. And some things might get lost. You know, you might not see an animation if another one stomps on top of it. But our existing code that a lot of their other games are using kind of likes to queue things up and kind of make sure you're seeing everything, because there's a lot of cool stuff. You know, we want to see all the animations. but I wanted to keep Metallica the same as it was, because otherwise people would notice and it would be different. And so I wanted to be faithful. And so I had to kind of change the system a little bit from, you know, how I had done animations on the other games and kind of come up with my own, like, all right, how do I translate this from the old way into the new way so that it's faithful and uses all the same priorities that the old one does, but then it also uses the LCD animations the correct way, you know, instead of the dots. So that was kind of something I had to solve on my own, you know. There were some other things, lots of light questions like light effects. I learned a lot about how those work. You know, when you're the lead, you kind of have to know everything and dig in really deep and get a real fundamental understanding. And you can't just copy and paste things that the lead did because you know that works. It's like, well, now I'm the lead, so I have to make sure I understand how everything works. So you got to do a lot extra on this game. What was your favorite part of the game that you got to do, whether it be a new mode or I personally like Easter eggs. So was there like an Easter egg that's your favorite in there? I don't think there's any easter eggs right now but I like let's see the new modes are fun because I got to come up with ideas for them but I just I think my favorite thing working on it is just getting the cool animations in and watching the game slowly kind of transform because like I said when I started it was using kind of the dot matrix animations, although some of it was glitchy. It didn't really work all that well. But as I would get in new art from the art team and then I would spend the time to implement it, it's like, okay, now it's a little bit more complete and then you'd see it evolve. And then I remember when I was done with every, you know, every old animation had been converted to a new animation. It was like really cool to say like, here it is, it's all done. It was just really cool to see it kind of come alive throughout time. was working with the ui a little different not the ui well yeah the uh the black light was that is that more difficult to work with or is it just kind of like a typical light that you deal with because i love the the uh like the key animation oh it's where it where it glows from the hammer onto the playfield showing you yeah that was cool um i really was happy with that and that was another thing i got i i learned being a lead is it's not just software you also work with the designer a lot more, the art team a lot more, and it was up to me to kind of know what I was asking, like, when I needed something from the art team, and making sure, you know, work, like, for instance, Borg originally had, you know, he added some new inserts and things, and I was like, you know, it'd be cool if we put 2x scoring on that insert, because the old game didn't have 2x scoring insert. It had 2x scoring, but it didn't have an insert, and Borg was like, oh, yeah that's a good idea we should do that and so then he would update his his docs and everything and so the key was another thing where uh he he put a hammer uv like a uv light inside the hammer because he just thought it would be cool like he you know he he put some uv here uv here and i'm like well i'm gonna light up the uv to tell you that lock is lit and before there was any uv art you could kind of see like a little purple glow and that was like cool enough for me I'm like, yeah, all right, lock is lit. This is very useful because the old game didn't tell you if lock was lit. It would be like kind of a surprise. And Borg was like, yeah, we could have a little key, like a little key logo there. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So and then it lights up the key. So there's a lot of collaboration like that. And in general, the UV lights, yeah, they're just normal lights. You just tell them to turn on and off just like any other lights. Um, but you know, you kind of want to make sure the GI is probably off when you're using them for their full effect. Uh, so they don't get washed out, um, by the, the light from the other lights. But, um, yeah, it was pretty, pretty easy to implement. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was fun working, working with Borg and watching it kind of evolve. Now, now with Rush, Rush is, they were quite involved in the process and getting you a lot of concert footage, getting you a lot of access information. And tell me how that process was integrating the concert clips and choreographing them with what you're doing, because I'm assuming that would, that is certainly a next level of integration over the D&D. Yeah. So the, the concert footage was basically for, you know, when you're in main play and, or it's just the background, you know, you're not showing an award at the time because the old game just had score, right? It didn't really have – and it had text kind of on a black background. And so the concert footage kind of fills that void and it does it pretty nicely. And I was able to use, you know, some of the code from Rush to kind of figure out how that game kind of synchronizes and keeps track because if you're watching the concert and then you hit a shot and animation just shows up. You want it to pick up where it left off in the concert, but you still want the music to be playing the whole time. And so there was like synchronization stuff you had to do. And again, background priorities, like if you're in one mode, then you start another mode. Now it's going to change the song. And so then it's going to change the concert footage. That was another, you know, priority stacking thing. I tried to get right from the old Metallica because a lot of that was based on the order you did stuff. So if you had one mode running and then you started another mode, the newer mode would be the background that wins. But our newer games, it's more of just an absolute priority of like everything just kind of has a priority. And whatever is running that we deem most important is the one that shows up. So that was another thing I had to kind of figure out. But it was it's cool. And I think it seamlessly kind of fits. You know, you can see just James rocking out. you know all of them rocking out and it's it's just it's just fun because you still need a place to look up and see text and information so you're probably not staring at the band but other people watching will be staring at the band and you know sometimes you might look up and and see and it's like it just kind of makes you smile because it's cool you know it's really cool that we have the ability to to do this well that's also something i really loved while playing the game was you know in the old game it seemed like you had to pause and you'd scroll through the the screens and you had to find your information that you're specifically looking for and you're trying to interpret it all but now you got the the lcd and it's you look up and it's like oh i've got a couple more shots to the snake i just need to do this and that and boom i'm on my way and and i've also got to say too speaking of the snake that shot feels so much better now i don't know what borg did but i don't feel like it ever rejected on me when i went for the snake as long as i got a good clean shot right and it felt like on the old game you didn't really want to hit the snake because you didn't know what you were going to get so i mean it just over and over there's just little things that were tweaked in this game that that makes the the quality of life so much better right yeah that was actually a challenge the ui screen uh because the concert footage is so cool you don't want to crowd over it because you're going to, you know, cut off his head while he's singing. You don't want to do that. So I had to find a way to convey everything in like the smallest border possible without being like put on your glasses and read. So I had to balance, you know, make sure the font's big enough, but make sure it's not too big. And I think it came out really good. Like you were saying, if you thought that you liked it while you were playing, It sounds like we came in, you know, had a good spot where we ended up. Yeah. Tell me about the expression lightings integration because that is, and you can see Rush over my shoulder. I mean, that's one thing that, and I still need to get the speaker lights for it, but that is one thing that really takes a music pin to the next level. And so tell me about the choreography and the coordination of getting the speaker lights and the expression lights to enhance what you're doing? Yeah, basically, you know, Mike Vinikour, he does kind of the custom light shows for all the songs. And then I have to get them in the game using kind of the data. So he gives me a big data file, you know, with a bunch of times and colors and stuff. And then I run it through like a script thing and it generates some stuff, all technical, whatever. But what's cool is I had other games to look at, Rush, Foo Fighters, Zeppelin, to kind of borrow from and make sure I was doing it right. And it worked out. I got it up and running pretty quickly, which I was pretty happy about. When we're showing the game with all the expression lights, we want it to work. And at first I was a little nervous. I'm like, wait, the expo is in like that, like this soon. I'm like, I don't know if we'll be able to get all the expression lights in. But luckily, Mike was working hard. And like I said, once you kind of get used to how the system works, they were able to go in. They look great. And then I also had to come up with an algorithm to kind of transpose them onto the speaker lights, because now anyone can have speaker lights for their game. And and the LEs come with speaker lights. And those look great, too. Those look those are even more like kind of in your face. Like those look really cool. They look great. Yeah. But then there's also a couple of moments like at the start of electric chair multiball. You don't really want the speaker lights and the expression lights just kind of doing their own thing. It's like, no, you want to focus on the buildup of the electric chair multiball. So I had to go and kind of, you know, include them into the rest of the light shows. And that was another lot of work I had to do is a lot of the old light shows had all their lights defined. But now we have more lights We have expression lights speaker lights the new inserts for the modes you know have to kind of piece all those in But we can do some really cool effects with the expression and speaker light combo for sure So I don't know if you can speak to this or not, but why did why was Sparky changed up from what he originally was? Was that more of a Dirty Donnie thing? And now with the new art from the Metallica artist, was that just kind of the direction or what? I don't know. I wasn't involved in that side of things. I love the new Sparky. I'm a heretic. I didn't really love the old Sparky. I thought it was okay. It was very stylized. But this art presentation feels more Metallica to me. I remember when we first saw the play field come back from James Rees, and we were just like, holy, this is so cool. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. And you could argue either way. You could argue the R packages really – the one thing that Stern does really well is, yes, they give you that extra something in the LE that makes it look, okay, this is the top. This looks great. But they've also done such a good job of, even if you choose to go a premium route or even a pro route, that you don't feel like you're getting shortchanged because it is a complete game, a complete arc package into itself. And there are other manufacturers who we talked about before that really do not hit that mark. Yeah, I think the games look gorgeous, both of them. Yeah. And that foil on the side. Foil is so good. The LE is just amazing. I love that you guys integrated the blacklight into this, like you were speaking. When it switches, they all look like skeletites. It's so good. Yeah, when Sparky gets shocked, the teeth glowing looks so good. Yeah. I'm really happy with how those turned out. Okay, so you're doing the LEs first, correct? Yeah. Is that okay? So the, the Ellie's are on the line right now. Is that, is that fair to say they are awaiting a Borg's approval? He's going to go and, uh, you know, look, look, look, look them over and make sure they're up to standards and everything's shooting good and behaving as it should. So they'll, they'll be, uh, I'll be out soon. Yeah. It's exciting. So remind me, so the, the new Metallica logo in the back that lights up and whatnot, what does that do? And, and work, where did that decision come from it looks awesome that's what it does just awesome uh yeah i think borg just thought he wanted to be able to see your progress on that feature um without having to look at instant info um and he just thought it was cool to uh you know that that logo the metallica logo is so iconic like it was so you know it's a no-brainer like let's put it wherever we can Like, it just looks really cool. And he just thought it was fun to, as you're hitting the ramps, you're seeing stuff light up and you're making progress. You know, getting that feedback right in your eyeballs, you know, right as you're playing. And what is that tied to? What is the Metallica sign tied to, code-wise? It's the left and right ramps. Every time you hit one, you get a letter. And then if you spell Metallica, then it starts the Lady Justice round. Okay. Okay, you've been playing this game for years. Ray Day walks up to a Metallica pinball machine. What is your progress? Like, what is your path that you like choosing on this game? I mean, it's pretty straightforward. You go for Sparky just because it carries over across balls. So if you start in ball one and you hit it a couple times and die, you know, it's annoying, but you've made progress. so that on ball two or three, you can finally start sparking and kind of get everything going. So I'm a sparky player. I know some people that go for the grade marker drop targets because it's fewer shots, but every ball they reset. So that was actually helpful in helping me. You know, the outlane ball saves, the resurrect saves, those are, I made them so you get them by hitting the drop targets on the grade markers because I wanted to kind of balance out because at least for me, if I'm only ever going Sparky, you know, there's probably a lot of other people only going Sparky. And so now it'll help balance, you know, maybe people will start going for Grade Marker because you'll at least try to get a ball save, you know, as long as people don't turn them off from tournaments like a lot of tournaments seem to do. But, hey, I'm the lead now. I can tell you whether you can turn them off or not. You should get like a lead code. like when you log in under Insider Connected, that it just reverts to your presets. I don't think that would be very fair. Okay, but you're the lead. I mean, you can do it. Come on. No, but yeah, basically you get a multiball going, and then you try to get snake and points. The multiball itself will give you some good points, but you also really have to focus on the items. So I don't know if you know how the item system works in Metallica. It's actually a little counterintuitive, and I don't know how many people actually understand it, but there's an arrow on the play field that's lit solid. It's like a bluish color. It's just a solid arrow, and that arrow doesn't mean to shoot that shot. It means this is your currently active shot. So if you hit Sparky, it will make an electric chair insert light up underneath that shot. and if you hit snake it's going to make a snake appear and if you hit the grave marker drop target it's going to make a cross appear on that shot and if you get all three um on the same shot that starts a coffin hurry up and what's cool about that is when you lock in that coffin hurry up now those three things the the chair that's cross and the snake will stay there for the rest of the game so normally when you drain all the items that you have on the play field will go away but If you get the hurry up, they'll stay there. And what's good about having items on the play field is that's how you light your big scoring crank it up modes. So if you have a shot that has a snake and a cross on it, every time you hit that shot, you're getting a cross and you're getting a snake. And you need 12 of each to qualify crank it up, which is, you know, after you've done your multiball, you might kind of look around and see where your items are and kind of pick some off and try to get to that 12 of each so you can play the crank it up mode. speaking of which actually i guess that's a decent segue um this game will have the challenge modes that you can play the crank it up modes like right from the beginning nice um but you have to kind of earn them a little bit so you have to like a shark teeth thing what's that like a shark teeth thing yeah yeah exactly like the shark but instead of shark teeth you're earning the items so as you're logged in playing normal games and you're getting electric chairs and coffins and snakes and crosses they're going into your little bank account and you can cash them in for a challenge mode so if you get 12 of each item on your insider account now you can play one of the challenge modes or you can save them all up and get uh 60 12 times 5 60 of each item and that will let you play uh the end of the line which is the final wizard mode that almost nobody has seen uh it's very hard to get to but now if you just play the game normally enough and you you know maybe resist doing a challenge mode uh you can cash it all in and play the end of the line um which i thought was really cool a good opportunity um and yeah i just really liked that idea it's not smart just because you when you're coding the end of a game you're you're really putting a lot of work in and a lot of payoff for people for the vast majority of people who are never going to see it and so being able to find like a way of making that's okay i was at my friend's house the other day and actually we just spent all night doing the jaws uh shark teeth like doing the uh you know the revenge yeah that's all we do some of that i have i have i'm maxed out on shark teeth right now i have 999 i won't let me go any higher and i need i need to start playing those okay the shark teeth it's hilarious because you're you're and you're still kind of hoping they secretly hope they drain so you can uh you can play and also crush their skulls but uh it's it's fun because everybody's shouting out it's like no they're on the right they're on the right yeah i think it's really cool and and this is a good balance because you know this way you have to work for it a little bit you know and and it won't it won't feel old because if you can just go up and keep playing fade to black as many times as you want it might get a little old but this way it kind of sprinkles out like well you got to play the game a little bit earn earn some some items and then cash them in here cash them in there so i'm excited to see people um you know take their phones out and make sure they're getting credit for their items every time they play what am i mistaken wasn't there different songs from Metallica than what is available in this go-around. Obviously, you have your classics like Enter Sandman and Master of Puppets. I know that they had newer stuff in there as well, but it felt like some of the songs were taken out as well. All the songs from 2013 are in there. Did you just add to it? Yeah, we went from 13 songs in the original game plus a 14th song at the end of the line. So 14 songs in the original. Now there's this one shipping with 22 songs, so it's eight more. And, yeah, it's really cool because you have all the ones that you like, and now you have a chance to like some new ones. Like I personally, I fell in love with King Nothing. That song. I love that song. That is actually, that's one of my favorite Metallica songs. Yeah, it's on this game. So I'm like, I know what I'm picking now whenever I play Metallica. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, it is nice because you get so used to, you know, the you know, the iconic albums. Right. You get because I'm 50 now. So like I grew up like listening to, you know, the Ride the Lightning and, you know, Kill Em All and Justice for All and all that. And I would say that most of us, we kind of move on with, you know, we move on with as genres change and what becomes in vogue. And so we're usually not as familiar with the later stuff. And I would even argue with Rush. I mean, I followed Rush basically my entire life. And there's an album called Snakes and Arrows. I've probably only listened to that album less than five times. Oh, and it has Far Cry. It's amazing. Yeah. No, no. Okay. Yeah. No, it's good. It's good. But it is just human nature. I have probably listened to Power Windows over a thousand times. Right. And so – and this is the great thing because you are introduced more to these later gems that you didn't get exposed to. And I would argue the same thing with Iron Maiden. Iron Maiden, Live After Death is their live album that – it's the power slave. So it's basically the premium one. That was their zenith. That was their peak. And I've probably listened to that album like a thousand times. but there's some later stuff that I just am not familiar with because, you know, I got older and moved on, but yeah. Yeah. And there's also, you know, Hit the Lights was from their first album and that's on the new game too. So, you know, it's a, it's a whole bunch of new songs. Who chose the songs? I think that was the band. I think they, that they're basically the ones that were like, these are the ones, you know, I'm not sure I wasn't involved in how that worked, but I know the band definitely played a large role. So I'm not, I'm not entirely sure. It's, it's funny that you say that just because when we were there at pinball expo, Charlie Bonante, if that's how you say his last name for the drummer of anthrax was there because he was there with Tim Sexton with, they did the wick seminar. And it was funny because they were talking about hit songs and he said, you know, it kind of sinks sometimes because you kind of there's a hit song you make that you kind of don't want to play anymore because you have to just play it so many times right yeah you get tired of it and so it's it's funny because it's like i half wonder if if the band picked these songs because they genuinely love them or if it's one of those things like yeah we got to put it in there because it's like it like like those fans that threw a fit that dave grahl didn't play ever long at one of the concerts this summer like it's my it's my band like i can play whatever i want you know that's funny yeah well i i will say it's probably a mix because one thing i've looked at is when a band comes you look at the set list and when you look at the songs that uh the famous ones the ones they're known for and they're in there's usually bands if you're a great band you have like six great songs that everybody knows and you know sometimes you have bands that you They're like one or two songs that everybody knows and kind of filler. But if you look at the songs they select to couple with those other ones, it actually tells you a lot more about what the band actually likes to play. Because eventually you are going to get tired of the ones, even your hits, you're going to get tired of them. But when you see them mixing in some other ones, it makes me take a little more pay a little more attention to those other songs, because it's like the these are the songs that mean something to the band. Yeah, well, I mean, luckily, in Metallica's case, they have like a million songs that everybody loves and loves. So like when they had their concert in Chicago, I went I was going to go both nights. They actually had so many songs that they were able to have two completely different set lists on Friday and Sunday. and I went on Friday and they didn't even play Enter Sandman or One or The Unforgiven. Like three of what I would call their everybody knows them songs, right? Yeah, they're the banger songs. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so obviously they played them on Sunday, but they didn't play them on Friday, which just tells you like how many good songs this band has. And I was kind of bummed I didn't get to see them on Sunday because I was actually still playing in a tournament that was running late, and I was playing on Metallica in the Final Four, and I won that game. So I was kind of at the Metallica concert in spirit. It was a sign. I had a huge crank it up for the win. That was a fun tournament. I think that was the Andy Bagwell Silver Ball Social that he runs over here at Interium. Oh, nice. So that concert you went to, was that the same one with Ice Nine Kills opening and Limp Bizkit as the co-headliner? no those names don't sound familiar um okay that must be the latest 72 seasons tour that they just did yeah yeah um well i know they're switching between suicidal tendencies and pantera one night and then the other night is ice nine kills and limp biscuit and so maybe that's that me that's the new lineup because that's they just reannounced uh 72 still going and they're doing again this the first one you said sounded more familiar yeah okay i don't know i got there late i i i I, when I did go, I, I, I didn't see the opener. I got there at like, you know, right when the band went on, which worked out for me, but I didn't realize how far parking is. Oh, wow. Yeah. You got there for the opener, but you didn't get there because of parking. Well, traffic too. Traffic and parking traffic was awful. I need to figure out how to, you know, do what every other Chicago does and take the, uh, the L everywhere. But unfortunately, you know, I'm just outside like on the suburbs where I'd have to somehow get to an L station first. And at that point I'm already in my car. I'm like, uh, you know, I just, let's see. I'm, I'm actually just scanning. It looks like the closest I could get is, uh, maybe I'll have to go to Vegas, April 12th. Just, just drive through and pick me up. Let's go to Denver. I think I'd rather go to Vegas. Party pooper. I know. I'm sorry. Like, uh, Denver is actually kind of a pain for me. Oh, is Josh on the east side of Utah and you're on the west side? So I'm in the big city. Well, okay, not really. I'm in like the Elk Grove of Salt Lake City. And so I'm like – I'm about 30 minutes from downtown in a suburb. But, yeah, Josh is like three hours away from me. Actually, Josh, we've known each other for what, like eight years? I've still never been to his house. He even messaged me once. So there's this big lake by where I live. It's called Flaming Gorge. And the river is like world-class fly fishing, and it's the Green River. And there was even a movie you made with it with Brad Pitt called like River Flows Through It. River Runs Through It. River Runs Through It. So it's funny because like Scott texted me. He's like, what is there to do up at like Flaming Gorge? I'm like, are you like 30 minutes from me? You're not going to stop by? Okay. I had like my young men's group from church. okay everybody we're just taking a big detour and going to my friend's house yeah you should have you should be like and we're gonna stop it's funny in life you get that you get that situation quite a bit where you so close to someone yet so far away like like you like oh can we just like you know right there or like yep Yeah no that awesome Okay, what's the one moment that you put in this game that people who are familiar with Metallica that are going to say, wow, that, you know, it's the moment maker, right? This is the it thing. so what is it about this version that is going to affect people well i mean what's the ball rug coming out you know i mean probably the uh you know when you start electric chair multiball it's got all the same cadence as the other one but now there's uv and uh sparky moves a lot more violently and you kind of like feel the whole game kind of shake like it's uh it's very intense and it's definitely a moment maker. And then just like the hammer mech is so good now. So good. Oh, yeah, so good. It's so amazing that like you just – you have the ball trapped. And I don't know if you guys – have you guys watched the gameplay video me and Borg did? Yeah, it looks – it's impressive. You shoot that thing and it just like stops dead in its tracks and then just smashes it down. And it just all looks so cool. um so i i really like those those two moments for sure but i mean everything in the game you know the when you start grave marker and you see the grave you know rise up um and the animations that are just so they just fit so perfectly like the animation absolutely crushed it um yeah i it's it's uh it's incredible so i gotta know is gary stern a metalhead because between metallica you've got like i saw like a picture of carrie king in stern the other day you got scott anthra or scott ian from anthrax showing up charlie Charlie Benante okay i get i get a vibe that he's like a hall and oats guy i have no idea metal guys come in i feel like i'm pretty sure he's in a Hall & Oates guy. Okay, so as with everything, I'm assuming Stern is developing accessories for this. I'm assuming there's a topper in development. I'm assuming there's a shooter in development. All this kind of stuff. Is there any estimation on when we're going to see any of that stuff? I mean, we have what we would like. you know the estimation that we want is very soon uh you know we we uh we want it as soon as we can but we got to make sure that we have them and that you know they're made right and you know that they um they kind of you know all get announced at once you can trick out your game completely so you're not waiting for the shooter knob or you're waiting for the expression lights or you're waiting for the topper um but it's uh you know the accessories and stuff the the code and stuff is pretty much there for that so you know we're we're full steam um i'm excited for people to uh to get them because i know a lot of people uh love their accessories looks like scott you're missing an iron maiden topper there you should i am missing an eye okay so here's here's my question My question is the only topper – so you guys made a topper for the premium. It was like – it was the Egyptian theme, and you guys have never remade it. So you only have the 3D one, the Aces High one. But part of me just like the Aces High topper on the Egyptian theme doesn't seem to fit as well. So I'm torn. I want to get – You should buy an LE, and then you won't have the Egyptian theme, and you'll put the Aces. Right, right. It's true, it's true. You know, what I could do is I could get the Asus High Topper and then change Eddie out for like a, you know, a Pharaoh that's flying the jet. I actually didn't even know that we had a topper for the Egyptian version. That's cool. No, you'll have to look for it. It's, you know, I think it may have. No, maybe it wasn't at Logan. Maybe they had the Asus High Topper. Okay, just Google it. It's just like topper Egyptian. I'll send it to you later. but yeah it's uh but you guys have i really have tried to figure out what to do and i think i'll probably just end up pulling the trigger on the uh aces high topper don't do it gomez is secretly making you a pyramid what else we know he's not no he's not you need to start hitting him up again you just need to bug him you know yeah no it no it's fun and then you'll find out to george gomez that lives in Reno. Oh, yeah. Okay, so we told that story, right? Yeah, we did. Yeah. And he said thank you for being there. I saw George Gomez when they were – so I was at the factory tour at the end kind of babysitting the Metallicas. Yeah. And so people – did you guys go on the factory tour this year? Yeah. Yeah, we did. Tim actually took me on the tour. Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm sorry if I don't remember if you literally had a 20-minute conversation with me. I was so scatterbrained the entire time. No, no. You were busy. I waved. I waved. Okay. I talked to you briefly at Expo, and you were so busy. It was, yeah, it was crazy. It was like a reveal, you know, and I'm just like everywhere all at once sort of thing. But what was I – where was I going with this? At the Stern tour, you were – Oh, George Gomez. I saw someone with a name tag that said George Gomez, and I was like, did you steal that out of George's office? It's like, no, my name is George Gomez. Well, okay, so we told the story on the last episode. But because we've been – before Expo, we were talking about, hey, we're ordering hats, but we want to make sure if you really want a hat, make sure you order it. And so George Gomez ordered two hats. And so Josh went up to George Gomez of Stern and said like, hey, here's the hats. And George was kind of looking confused like, oh, okay, thanks. Well, he wasn't confused because we messaged him before. Oh, that's right. We said, which size? He's like, oh, I need this size. So you gave him a hat, and then you gave the other George Gomez a hat, and everyone got hats? Well, okay, we ran out of hats. We had to order them and mail them to the George Gomez in Reno. Yeah, I'm so worried for his to be finished. Yeah, no, and he's a super nice guy. He's like a cop. He's a cop or a police trainer or something like that in Reno. It's hilarious. That's funny. Yeah. Well, is there anything that we missed that you want to talk about, Ray, before we shut this down and wrap it up? Yeah. What should we have asked you about Metallica? I think I managed to shoehorn all my little anecdotes in appropriate places. Yeah, I mean, it was just a lot of fun to work on. I'm excited that I'll be able to do code updates, get to see people play it. it was very popular at Expo obviously oh another thing was kind of balancing how much of the UI I guess we talked about that too when you should see the UI, when you should see full screen videos versus I try to make it so you always have the score showing as much as possible once the ball is showing a multiball start or something but it was just cool to be able to be kind of a lead and make decisions without it's like great power comes great responsibility and it's fun so I'm happy with it and I hope everyone gets there soon and loves it it's going to be great one thing I did forget I know that when you started Rush you actually didn't know much of the Rush music Foo Fighters did you know much of the Foo Fighters music was that in Real House I knew probably less Foo Fighters than I did Rush Metallica I only knew Metallica from the old Metallica game because I didn't before the old Metallica game I had never really listened to Metallica but then since that game came out I had slowly been adding the pinball songs to my playlists and then now that this game came out i got to listen to them all again now in stereo you know it sounds really good on a spike two uh system so um yeah there's a lot of metallica songs i really like um pretty much all of ride the lightning is fantastic uh you know i actually like enter sandman and unforgiven i know that's a hot take but i really like it you know okay the black album came out when i was in high school and that was like the album that everybody won everybody said they sold out on it but it was like a mass appeal and it was yeah i mean i probably write songs on there you kind of need an entry point right and i feel like that is like one of the best entry points to metallica is like listen to the black album if you don't like the black album you're probably not gonna like their other stuff it's the gateway album yeah yeah that's why i always felt bad i don't know if you guys know who atreyu is but they're okay yes i've heard of atreyu and they're yeah go on the dragon from the never-ending story there's an actual band i've never seen that movie but they've never seen well okay i saw labyrinth once and i don't want to see it again they were very heard of labyrinth and everything i saw about it made me feel similar to how scott feels which is yeah this would be a movie where i would watch it and be like what yeah what happened yeah but i'm sure if i watched it if i watched it when i was a kid i probably would have loved it you know and i think that's what happens now you now you see david bowie dancing around with this shiny cod piece and you're just like what is going on yeah weird but i'm sure you did the same thing they were like a death metal scream band and then they made like a a mainstream rock album and they caught a lot of slack from their fans but it propelled them if If you haven't listened to it, it's called Lead Cells and Paper Anchors. Amazing album. But then they reverted back because they got so much hate mail for what they had done. It was very interesting because I felt like they kind of slid back into obscurity after doing that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I got started with the Black album and with the ones that the Pinball Game had. But then as I'm going back and listening to their other stuff, I like it too. You know, yeah, Master of Puppets will always be just incredible. Metallica actually went through phases. Not too many bands have the longevity to actually go through phases. Like Rush went through phases. And any Rush fan can tell you what phase is their favorite. I'm actually an outlier. I like the 80s phase, the synth phase. Like subdivisions? Yeah. like okay uh like um basically my favorite albums are uh moving pictures through hold your fire there's there's eight albums right there and it is um sorry that's nine uh but it's like there a lot of stuff that people are like oh this is not anything like rush i'm so glad they went back to the other stuff i'm like that's fine but that that was my teenage years and so like that's when I listen to all that. But yeah, it's, I don't know. Okay, so did you, you had an appreciation for the band, but in just getting the, so I'm kind of curious, right? What is on your set list? If you're not, if you were familiar with Rush, if you weren't familiar with Foo Fighters, weren't familiar with Metallica outside of the game, what is on your set, your playlist? I mean, honestly, it's probably at least 50% video game music. um okay and there's a every weird al song that he's ever released i have okay on my phone um and then just kind of various random other things like smash mouth uh stuff that i grew up with in the 90s like pop whatever pop rock was you know in the 90s like blink 22 yeah that kind of yeah some of that stuff um and then this other just popular music i don't know stuff you'd hear on the radio like i'm one of the weird people that like pop is what i like like like whatever is popular i genuinely like it that's not weird that okay i guess it's weird that i'm admitting it right okay okay i i love it when people talk about hating on nickelback and creed i'm just like they sold like a ton of albums someone bought those yeah like like i i had some nickelback i had some creed like we all bought the albums and then pretending like they're not cool i'm like yeah you still went to the concerts. Yeah. You look forward to Christmas every year. So when they unfollow Mariah Carey, you can enjoy her Christmas single. Okay. One thing that is hilarious though, if you haven't done it, you can put on the, the twisted sister Christmas album. Cause it's actually hilarious. And he, cause he goes through and he, um, so their, their breakout song was, we're not going to take it, you know, and I want to rock, you know, they were from the same album, but, uh, the funny thing is, we're not going to take it. Someone pointed out, you know, that's actually the same chord progression as like, Oh, come all you faithful or something like that. Well, yeah, that's the other 25% is a classic rock like Boston, Leonard Skinner. So from the step. Oh, okay. The late seventies. I saw something, you know, the Boston third stage album with the alien thing. It's a guitar. Turn it upside down. That's their first album is a giant guitar. Is it their first one or second? Okay. The main album, Boston, with the spaceship is a giant guitar. It's a giant guitar inverted. Yeah, that's something I just barely found out. That is probably, in my opinion, the greatest album of all time. But yeah, I love that first album, Boston. So good. If you want a really funny, kooky Christmas song, Sum 41 teamed up with Jack Black, and he made a song called All I Want for Christmas. Yeah, All I Want for Christmas? No. All the Cool Things I Want for Christmas or something like that. It's hilarious. It's definitely not appropriate to play on this podcast. Anything Jack Black probably isn't appropriate for anyone. It's pretty great. If you haven't heard it, definitely check it out. Just type in Sum 41 and Jack Black and it'll pop it right up for you. The Barenaked Lady's Christmas album was actually really good. Yes. I put that on too occasionally. I can't wait for Stern to come out with a Barenaked Ladies pinball machine. I know Ed Ed Robertson would never say they need one, but I think the rest of the world would agree they need to have a pinball machine from Stern. Yeah. It would be a little challenging given the founding – like the – Ed is not talking to one of the founding members of the band for – Oh, they made up and they got – they talked back together a couple years ago. I don't think he's back in the band, but they did like a reunion show five years ago. Well, good for them. I know that he – okay, what was the other guy's name? It was Ed Ed Robertson and – I can't remember. The dude with the glasses. Yeah, he went through a lot of issues. All right. Well, thank you so much, Ray. We are so excited for this game. I feel this game is going to be the L1 games that you guys put on the line every other month. I think Metallica is going to be on the line every other month for the next five years. This thing is going to keep selling. It will. It will. Man, that's awesome to hear. I hope so. I'm super excited to be a part of it. And I think it's just awesome that a lot of new people get to experience such a great game. and yeah, it's a lot of fun to work on. It's awesome. If you want to get a hold of Raymond Davidson, how do they get a hold of you, Ray? You can usually, I mean, Facebook message or Discord, Raydaypinball.com. I don't know. It's easy. Rayday has a really active Discord. Yes. If you like talking rules and pinball, that's a good one to go on. Or pinball hot takes. Yep. If you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. You can get a hold of us on Facebook, Instagram, X, Twitch, YouTube, if you're watching right now. Also, we haven't done it for a couple episodes, but let's do a content creator of the episode. Nap Arcade. If you want all of your updates and all the cool stuff, go check out Nap Arcade. and if you're loving what you hear about what ray day did with metallica and you're just jonesing for a new pinball machine where do you get it again scott okay zach and nicole mini flipping out pinball tell them lose your kid sent you but i'm not kidding this isn't hyperbole by metallica this game is awesome and even if you had a metallica in the past this is like unwrapping you know christmas and easter and flag day all at once it's amazing and like scott said tell them Lizard Kid sent you because they'll give you something extra special. They'll help you. We're not allowed to talk about it here, but you talk about them on Messenger. So Scott, send us off. What do you say? You know what? Seriously, go buy Metallica. No qualifications, whatever. Buy Metallica, and if you can get a hold of an LE, you get that LE. Thank you.