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Episode 186 – Play More Pinball

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 24m·analyzed·May 26, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

District 82 operators discuss tournament facility management, rebranding story, and multi-day pinball event launch.

Summary

Slam Tilt Podcast Episode 186 features an in-depth interview with Eric Thorne (District 82) and Tom Graff (Fox Cities Pinball) about building and maintaining a high-volume tournament pinball facility in Wisconsin. They discuss District 82's evolution from Titletown Pinball (forced to rebrand due to Green Bay Packers trademark claim), operational challenges managing 107+ machines with minimal staff, streaming infrastructure, and tournament formats. The episode emphasizes community building, maintenance standards, and the upcoming Summer Pinball Classic multi-day event.

Key Claims

  • District 82 was forced to rebrand from 'Titletown Pinball' in March 2020 after Green Bay Packers secured the trademark and sent a cease-and-desist letter

    high confidence · Eric Thorne directly recounted the trademark dispute and legal pressure that led to the name change

  • The number '82' in District 82 represents the number of pinball machines Eric had at the time the cease-and-desist was served

    high confidence · Eric explicitly stated: '82 is actually the number of pinball machines that had the time that they served me to cease to assist'

  • District 82 operates 107-110 pinball machines maintained by a single person (Eric)

    high confidence · Eric confirmed: 'One. Yes. I want people to know this because I don't think people realize that.'

  • Tuesday night league successfully drew 80+ participants during peak operations (pre-COVID), contrary to initial skepticism that only 20 people would attend

    high confidence · Eric: 'League was pushing 80 people. The Winter 2X, which was our premier event, went over 100 people. It just, it was awesome.'

  • Tournament revenue at District 82 covers 100% of overhead costs but generates no personal profit; Eric operates without employees and funded the machine collection from outside sources

    high confidence · Eric: 'All the tournament fees, which is basically the money that I make at District 82, literally 100% of it goes to pay the overhead.'

  • Fox Cities Pinball streams District 82 tournaments using wireless HDMI transmitters positioned at specific channels (1 and 8) to avoid interference

    high confidence · Tom and Bruce discussed technical setup: 'channels one and eight that I remember, and I don't know why. I'm thinking more and more next time in Rochester, I'm going to go back and try to get the setup'

  • Summer Pinball Classic 2022 will feature seven tournaments over five days (Wednesday-Sunday) with two WPPR-certified events offering 20 point boost

    high confidence · Eric announced: 'I'm doing a Wednesday night standalone tournament and a Thursday night standalone tournament... That's a total of seven tournaments over five days'

Notable Quotes

  • “82 is actually the number of pinball machines that had the time that they served me to cease to assist”

    Eric Thorne @ N/A — Explains the origin of District 82's name—a clever reference to the forced rebranding from Titletown Pinball

  • “My business model is not for making a profit. My business model is just paying the overhead. I don't pay any employees and the games that are all there.”

    Eric Thorne @ N/A — Clarifies District 82's non-profit operational philosophy and reliance on external funding sources

  • “It's not as easy as it looks, but I try to change something every time we stream and just try to have fun with it. But it's tough playing and streaming at the same time, that's for sure.”

    Tom Graff @ N/A — Acknowledges the dual challenge of competitive play and tournament streaming

  • “If you want to open a place like that, you need to have a good tech. I'll tell you that. Yes. Fix the games. And you need to run the tournament.”

    Eric Thorne @ N/A — Practical advice for prospective tournament facility operators

  • “If you do that [sensitive slings], it makes it play so much faster, no matter what the game is”

    Eric Thorne @ N/A — Highlights specific maintenance technique critical to tournament-grade game preparation

  • “The better the player that comes, it's like the next level. And watching how they play... playing against them head-to-head or in a group is just another thing. It's awesome.”

    Eric Thorne @ N/A — Reflects Eric's enthusiasm for competitive pinball and learning from elite players

  • “Competitive pinball needs a lot more of that [positive attitude]”

    Ron Hallett @ N/A — Community figure endorses Eric's positive demeanor as essential to pinball culture

Entities

Eric ThornepersonTom GraffpersonDistrict 82organizationTitletown PinballorganizationFox Cities PinballorganizationRon Hallettperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: District 82 operates on zero-profit model where 100% of tournament fees cover overhead; founder relies on external income source. Represents sustainable but non-scalable facility business model.

    high · Eric: 'All the tournament fees, which is basically the money that I make at District 82, literally 100% of it goes to pay the overhead.'

  • ?

    community_signal: District 82 volunteers (Beth and Tony Trofka) actively support tournament logistics. Tuesday night league format deliberately designed to avoid family time conflicts and achieved 80+ participation.

    high · Eric: 'people could just take off on a tuesday and come play and you weren't like wasting a family a family night like a saturday'

  • ?

    community_signal: District 82 demonstrated resilience and community loyalty during forced rebranding and COVID closure. Players continued participating in unsanctioned tournaments and returned en masse when facilities reopened.

    high · Eric: 'We came out of that with roughly, I think, 30 people or so would come on a regular basis... when ifpa opened back up in august we came out of that with 60 or 50 or so people'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Elite players (Carrie Wing cited) demonstrate superior flipper handling on classic machines (Supersonic, Alien Poker), indicating skill gap not driven by complex modern rule sets.

    medium · Eric: 'They have such flipper handling skills. It's just amazing... Carrie Wing especially... she's just amazing with the flipper handling'

  • ?

    event_signal: Summer Pinball Classic represents scaling of multi-day tournament format responding to demonstrated community demand for extended competitive events at District 82.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.254

0:00
Well, boys, deciding what career to choose is practically a job in itself. And it's my job to try and help you make the right choice. Can either of you guys think of a few things that interest you? Things you'd like to do. Uh, I'd like to do chicks. Yeah, me too. Right, but chicks is only one thing. No way. Chicks have two things.
0:30
Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, a show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Turnip and talk, turnip and talk, turnip and talk. Oh, there's going to be a lot of that. And this is episode 186, and we have guests. We're not going to fool around here. Who do we have, Bruce? We have from District 82, Eric Thorne. Is that right, hopefully? Yep, that's right. And we have Tom Graff from Fox City Pinball. How are you guys doing today? Good, good. And we called you Tom. We didn't call you Neil's son or Neil's dad. No.
1:11
As far as we're concerned, Neil is just Tom's son. That's what we'll call him. He's the offspring. That's right.
1:20
You still beat him occasionally, so I don't know why they're doing the whole Neil's dad thing. You should only do that if you just never win. It's getting to be that way now.
1:34
Old age catches up to all of us. Yes, it does. I haven't won anything since... Oh, yeah. Never mind. I won something. I'm mad. Yeah, yeah. That's why I said that.
Bruce Nightingale
person
Beth and Tony Trofkaperson
Green Bay Packersorganization
Summer Pinball Classic 2022event
Great Lakes Openevent
Carrie Wingperson
Travis Murrayperson
IE Pinballorganization
IFPAorganization
COVID-19 Pandemicevent
Rochester Pinball Collectiveorganization

high · Eric: 'after seeing the success we've had and so many people wanting to come to district 82 for multi-day events i was like let's just... put a little steroid injection into it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Eric Thorne identified as positive community leader whose attitude directly impacts competitive pinball culture quality. Hosts emphasize leadership and positivity as essential to tournament success.

    high · Ron: 'Eric is very positive... competitive pinball needs a lot more of that'

  • ?

    product_concern: Tournament-grade game preparation requires tight post tuning and sensitive sling adjustment to prevent slow play. Single operator maintaining 107+ machines relies heavily on player reporting of mechanical issues.

    high · Eric: 'If you hit the ball and it hits a post and it moves just a little bit it kills the speed... everything has to be tight'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Fox Cities Pinball represents significant advancement in competitive pinball streaming infrastructure, moving from corner setup to professional broadcast with wireless HDMI, green screen, and integrated MatchPlay scoring.

    high · Tom: 'It was all wired. It was like USB stuff, and, man, that was a pain in the ass. But, yeah, it just morphed into what it is now.'

    • 1:48
    Well, welcome, guys. We all know that District 82 has been doing very well with getting people to play tournament pinball, and we're very happy to see that. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. We know it's not all easy work.
    2:05
    So how did this all come about with, of course, the name change and everything else that you've had to, in the beginning, start with your adventures? Because it wasn't always District 82. No, it was not. Was it Titletown? Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah, it started with Titletown Pinball. So in 2018, we basically just had league and tournaments in people's homes. Tom was really the only one in the area, being the Fox Cities area, that held tournaments. And we just did two tournaments a year, two double tournaments at his house. And other than that, there were no bars or no locals or nothing. Other than that, it was just league once a month. and I hosted a couple of those league nights and the collection was getting a little bit big and I was gently nudged by the wife to not host big events at the house anymore.
    3:01
    And she allowed me to go rent a warehouse and put all my games in there. And I was like, well, I think I got a way to pay for this. And we're just going to have our own league and in a tournament once a month. And that's how it all started. And I started with Titletown Pinball. We had 38 pinball machines in a 2,400-square-foot space with one bathroom, and it was a lot of fun. That went great, and the collection just kind of kept growing and growing and growing until we hit roughly 60 or 65 games. And then the city found out, and I didn't have enough bathrooms. It was just like once the city gets involved, you've got to meet all these minimum requirements and whatnot. I had to get another bathroom. The cheapest way to do that was actually just to rent more space. So the space doubled, and we just kept going. The Tuesday night pinball league actually was a huge success. I had no idea how it would go. Initially, I was told that, hey, Saturday nights are the night, not a weeknight. Eric actually came to me, and he's like, well, what do you think about running a league on a Tuesday night? And I'm like, you'll be lucky to get 20 people. yeah it uh there was not a lot of faith in uh tuesday night happening uh but it turned out that uh that it was actually an excellent night and uh people people could just take off on a tuesday and come play and you weren't like wasting a family a family night like a saturday or something so it was a huge success fast forward a couple years we're killing it you know january 2020 We're having our biggest events, February 2020. I think League was pushing 80 people. The Winter 2X, which was our premier event, went over 100 people. It just, it was awesome. And then March and COVID and everything came to a screeching halt, you know, in the world. And then at the exact same time, I get a cease and desist letter and an attorney phone call from the Packers and they had just received the trademark for the word Titletown from the government. So they were forcing me to cease and desist using the name or threaten legal action. So from my perspective at the time, I'm forced to not be open. I still have to pay all the bills. There is no PPP for me because I don't have a payroll and now I've lost my name. And so it really felt like everything was done uh at that point so i uh regrouped a little bit i went back and forth with the packers a lot they would not budge and i straight up said i go look guys we're posting you know world class events here or we're going to be and title town is the name of the town you should really you know work with me on this and just let me use the name so it's synonymous with greatness, which is what the word Titletown is supposed to mean. They wouldn't budge. So I went back and forth on a whole bunch of names, and I came up with District 82. First, I like the sound of it. It sounds cool. You know, Green Bay Pinball would have been the old standby that everybody would have understood what it meant. And believe me, that was my backup. So I immediately went and got that name and everything. But District 82, the Packers have the name for the Titletown District that they've coined around Lambeau Field. And I knew they could not trademark the word district. And you can't trademark 82. So 82 is actually the number of pinball machines that had the time that they served me to cease to assist. Oh, cute. District was their reasoning because they said they're going to have an arcade and they want the name. So District 82. And now they can look back and go, you know, we had a chance to be with this place and we blew it. And now we're at, what, 109, 110 pinball machines and still going. But I like the name. The name sounds cool. And we ran with it. And actually, to be honest, like a lot of people were like, oh, yeah, that really hurts. and everyone called me Titletown still through COVID, at least all the locals. And once we emerged, now you got to realize, so we were closed for what, 10 weeks or something because the governor basically said, you know, pinball is dirty or, you know, any of these activities that are not, you know, needed, you cannot do any. So once it was active again, we played pinball and we started back up with roughly, I think, 30 people or so would come on a regular basis and we wore masks for a solid year i think a year maybe a hair longer and um and we never stopped playing pinball so fast forward what 18 months 17 months when ifpa opened back up in august we came out of that with 60 or 50 or so people on our regular tuesdays and we just never skipped a beat we were still doing tournaments and we came out of that with our foot on the accelerator and with a new name and to the rest of the world they're like who the heck are these people like district 82 you know in nowhere wisconsin and uh and how are they dominating with all these players and points and whatnot you know we had the triple flip we had the great lakes open we had those events during covid they did not count for points but the events were still there we still had top players coming everyone still had fun. So pinball is still there. It was just kind of more hidden and just not as well known because they weren't sanctioned from the IFPA. But since then, with Tom's stream, with other players really getting the word out, especially Travis Murray, it really blossomed and people realized that we host these events. And they've just grown huge since essentially IFPA reopened. And it's been fun. But it's not all fun, is it?
    9:21
    Well, I blame Aaron Rodgers about the name. Might as well. We blame everything on Aaron Rodgers. That's all that matters. I have to say, just for sense of scale, 20 people would be a huge turnout here. Yes. If 20 people showed up for league, we'd be like, oh, my God, are we going to be able to finish in under two hours? Yeah, that's the problem. It's my mind, too, because you think of the population center and we're small compared to everybody else. You're the same size as Rochester. OK. Yep. Well, the thing that always threw me about the whole when District 82 became a thing, I was like, I thought Wisconsin hated Whoppers. I was so confused because if anyone remembers when the whole initial $1. I hated Josh for like a day, and then I thought about it, and I was like, yeah, this is good. But there were other people that were mad about it. When IFPA announced the $1 fee, it was like all this pushback, and most of it was Wisconsin. So when I saw this, this place was in Wisconsin, and it's all like whoppers, whoppers, whoppers. I was very confused. Well, there was one person really leading that charge. I won't name his name. No, no, no. We know him. If you listen and you've been in pinball for a while, you know him. Yeah. I mean, that all happened at the same time, you know, because 2018, Josh introduced the $1 fee. Yes. And I did not start until, well, essentially my first event was June of 2018. So it was already in the books for six months, you know. and um at the time i i thought about it i just embraced it i was like look the one dollar fee basically makes it more legitimate it's just not a a free-for-all and it has to be a good event you know and that buck to put it in and i just went with it now one other thing it's like you know how do you start a place and and get to that point i had kind of swiped tom's mailing list that It had like 45 people on it. And that was it. And other than that, I literally went to Pennside and sent out messages to everybody in a radius for all of Wisconsin. And I just kept pounding the pavement trying to get people to come. And it took a long time. Oh, it takes a long time. Trust me. Yes. As we all know, you know, business is not easy, especially these hard times with COVID and everything else like that. But you guys are pounding through it. We came out a couple months ago. We enjoyed ourselves very much. We had a great time. Okay, let's talk bolts and nuts. How hard is it to keep up with 107 or 108 games?
    12:00
    Okay, Eric, how many people work on the games there? One. Yes. I want people to know this because I don't think people realize that. People have home collections of 20, 30 games, and they're like, oh, my God, it's so hard keeping. And they're barely played. now you're talking 107 games being played all the time when you're doing tournaments in the background you see your video from you know from tom's video you see everyone else playing games in the background it's not like they get a lull and they're sitting there going hey we got a nice easy break here it's it's a pain in the ass there is no stopping of playing pinball i just forget you there's no coin drop everything's on free play so the moment you walk in and play you know whatever you said on the same game all day if you wanted to as long as nobody's behind you yeah so how do you maintain it well i guess that's that's the real trick i'm used to it but here's the thing like if i buy a game from somebody it does not go to district 82 unless it's new in box you know or like a new game and actually even if it goes to district 82 new inbox there's still some things that i that i do we all know that the key is it has to be shopped and not only shopped it just has to be tightened down and tuned up and optimized for tournament play now the biggest thing that a lot of people don't do is tighten all the posts down oh yeah you crank those things down yeah i realize if you get a new play field from micro or something it's going to pool actually the new pinballs as well they're going to pool because they just i don't know they just the clear coat's different nowadays but if you want a game to play fast every post has to be tight if you hit the ball and it hits a post and it moves just a little bit it kills the speed if it kills the speed the game's easier game's easier it takes longer and we never finish on time so everything has to be tight and ready to go our tuesday night league people or tuesday turning the people now are incredible in that they've all been coming and then if there's a problem with the game they will let me know like there's one switch that's out if there's one flipper that didn't flip just quite right that time you know it's starting to show somewhere it gets written down the game is turned off i'll address it therefore it does not get worse and then the next time it's played it's right and since we have so many games, we can lose 10 or 20 games and not even bat an eye at it. You know, when we're getting 150 people, it's starting to get a little tighter.
    14:37
    It totally is. Yeah, but, you know, that all comes back to it. And Tom's been instrumental in, like, hey, to make this game harder, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. Because there's, I mean, there's a ton of games out there. Tom's got the tournament experience, has been to all these places. And it's like, all right, well, they take the post out on this one. and they do this and that and just those things make it a lot of fun to play and it's challenging as well. You can't have a slow game. If you have a slow game, you're just going to be sitting there going, oh my God, when's that game going to get done? I swear 50% of it is sensitive slings. If you do that, it makes it play so much faster, no matter what the game is yeah true and just people knowing hey this left sling isn't firing you know that even that might be easy for us to think about and know the vast majority of people out there don't even pay attention to that or don't realize it they're like game works great you know i just i've said on the show before like when when i bring a game if i bring game to a show i prefer to bring it to the tournament area because if something is wrong with it i'll know immediately a lot of times if you have in a free play area someone will hit something like a post flies off it's like rolling around the play field like oh we let me hit that thing over and over yeah you know and then then you got even more things wrong yeah i think you know it having the people who are playing it understand that something isn't right uh so it can be addressed immediately and not you know just turn into a huge problem with something else yeah you got a washer laying on the play field all of a sudden it's thrown into a slingshot. Yeah, on the newer games, it'll be fine. On an old game, it'll lock on, and hopefully it blows your fuse that you checked that has the right value, and nothing bad happens other than the fuse being blown. Good luck with that.
    16:36
    But it is a hard task. It really is. For 107 games to be worked on, how many hours a week do you think you're working on games now? I have no idea. Basically, when the kids are in school, I go there and work on them. It's gotten to the point lately. Usually, it would be I'd be at home in my garage working on the next game to bring in, and I would just be at District A2 the day after the event.
    17:00
    It's not just the games, too. I still got to change all the garbage cans, clean, set up for the next event, plan that out, register people, unregister people, answer all the emails. Website, everything else. Yes.
    17:15
    It's not an easy gig. No, it's not an easy gig. And you guys do great with it. You know, you really do. The first time we walked in there, it felt very welcoming, warm, personable. That's what you want. And you have a great group of helpers and volunteers. Yes, yes. Beth and Tony Trofka run the, basically during the tournaments, you hand the sheets into and hand out the sheets. And I think just that, like, you know, the sheets, you know, I'm used to doing it the way we do it, not really everybody else. and figuring out how to print out sheets on MatchPlay and just helping everybody not play out of order, know where the games are at, just running the tournament from start to finish also makes the experience just that much better. Yeah. I was thinking, do you have an extra printer?
    18:03
    We have extra everything. Okay. Except if the power goes out, we're done. Well, yeah. Yeah. That's the fear of everything. When I was there, I'm looking like, man, they're printing all those sheets out. I hope that printer doesn't die. I hope he has an extra printer. That's what I always think.
    18:23
    Well, Bruce, you know, the only thing better than playing tournament pinball is being filmed while playing tournament pinball. No. Yes. And Tom's got that covered. Yes, he does. I try my best. He's like, come on, don't drag me into this. No. So you do blue screen and everything, and you have the nice little pad in the middle where you can actually click on stuff. And it was really cool to join in with. Blue screen? So he's blue screening us, Bruce. Yes, blue screening. Do you mean green screen? Blue, green, black, yellow. I'm not discriminating against any color. Any color, okay.
    19:00
    So how'd that come about, Tom? Because for those who don't know, you can watch most of the tournaments at District 82 because they are going to be streamed on Fox City's Pinball. Yes, yes. So I like 10 years ago, I just grabbed a camera and started recording some stuff. And then when Twitch came out, I went on there and kind of did some stuff from home. But when when Eric opened up Titletown or District 82, you know, I kind of talked to him and said, hey, you know, it'd be great if we just stream some events. What do you think? And he was like, yeah, sure, as long as you don't get in anybody's way and everybody's okay with it. And at that time, it was all wired. It was like USB stuff, and, man, that was a pain in the ass. But, yeah, it just morphed into what it is now. And thanks to a lot of streamers out there that put information on the Internet and people like IE Pinball and Deadflip and Buffalo Pinball, It came to be what it is now. It's not as easy as it looks, but I try to change something every time we stream and just try to have fun with it. But it's tough playing and streaming at the same time, that's for sure. Yes, it is. I'm amazed you get reception. Yeah, I'm very impressed with your reception. For those who haven't been to District 82, it's like in two – There's like two separate – well, actually, it's more than two, but there's two separate sections with like – what is it, like garage doors in between? And then there's the air conditioning rooms that you can't go in that are way in the back. Right. I'm just amazed you get reception going from one room into the other. So am I.
    20:51
    Because we have one room in our PC, and we have issues. I don't get it. I don't understand it. I don't know if it's because – The building is concrete and everything like that with rebar been forced. There's a lot of middle-nose walls in my place. It what two stories high I mean I don know if that helps I have no idea I not you know and that a funny thing I like tech stuff but I not this techie person I don't know a lot about cameras. I don't know a lot about the audio. It's just all the stuff I've learned off the Internet and other streamers. I mean, anybody can do it. It's just executing it. Plus, you have a dedicated area. Yes. at the collective, the area where the computer that's being used is also the computer for the collective and it's at the reception desk. So when we're trying to announce, people come in, so there'll just be these breaks where you hear people talking to customers while a game is going on. We're actually talking about changing that. We're going to put maybe another desk along the side wall.
    21:56
    So that's what we're hoping for. We're talking about that this week. Yeah, I guess that all comes back to you know we've run so many tournaments and and like tom was saying every time we do one you know he changes something he tweaks something and and it just gets better and better and better every time uh same with with how we run the tournaments so when tom started out streaming he was in the corner it was not a pretty desk it was just uh here you go or if you guys remember where f14 was in the back corner that's where tom was tom was in the corner man you're bad boy Pretty much. It was not broadcast really inside, and it just morphed from there. And now he's got the desk and whatnot. And how we get the reception, how with those wireless HDMI is, man, he's spent hours and hours and hours just getting those to work, trying different receivers and transmitters, and finally got it to a point where they are centrally located in between the two rooms, the three different transmitters, and then his tower that goes over the games basically has line of sight to any of the games in there. And that is just, he's not really had any dropouts or anything bad. No, no.
    23:13
    Well, so you added the light. The light, the sound, like you can hear all the sound from the games now. I literally tried like four lights. I mean, you know, it's just a process of doing it. We had fun trying to get the transmitters to work. We learned the same thing you learned, that you don't use those Holly land. You don't use two of those. Yeah, I was going to tell that story. That was the funny thing. I guess you can use two of them. You just have to make sure. I think you said it. Yes. One has to be on one and one has to be on eight. Well, yeah, they needed to be on two separate channels, makes sense, but they needed to be on two specific channels or they somehow interfere with each other. They're channels one and eight that I remember, and I don't know why. I'm thinking more and more next time in Rochester, I'm going to go back and try to get the setup that I've seen Carl uses. I've seen Mark, who just did Allentown, he uses, which is the two monoprices, the cheap monoprice receiver transmitter on either side, like the left and right. And then in the center, one Hollyland, the higher end one. And that's what they used. And it seemed to work. The issue we have, I think, is the line of sight. I don't think it's up high enough.
    24:33
    So I've – Yeah, you've got to make sure it's as high as possible. Yes. And, like, almost even with the – I would say almost even with your rig. If it's pretty close there, then you'll get better reception, I think. Yeah, I think because where we are, we can't get as high as you can at District 82 with height. Because it's just like an office. The ceiling isn't overly tall. I got a question, Ron. If we put that in the middle of the room, like above the middle row, you think it'd be better? You mean my original idea? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before you said put it over there, so you had to get like a 50-foot HDMI cable? It's heavy, though. Don't forget. I honestly, Bruce, I would rather just try my other idea. I got some gooseneck things. I'm going to try getting the stuff up higher on the rig. because the other issue we have is Bruce and the collective are crazy they get games like 9-1-1 and Stargate which have the extra high heads which I'm looking at that like line of sight it's like damn it literally it doesn't have a line of sight because the head is so tall so we need to get up even higher on the rig than we already are we should put all the Stern electronics and valleys in the middle and then all the wacko games on the outside Or just put Stargate in the back and get rid of 911. Oh, I'd love to. Not mine to do. So, guys, if somebody was going to open a place, what are the do's and don'ts you're going to tell them to do? I'll let Eric go there. Yes. That's all, Eric.
    26:12
    Yeah. You hear me complain about it a lot, so, you know, I want to hear your thoughts. My business model is not for making a profit. My business model is just paying the overhead. I don't pay any employees and the games that are all there. The money to purchase those games did not come from tournament fees. All the tournament fees, which is basically the money that I make at District 82, literally 100% of it goes to pay the overhead. Yeah, when I said I didn't get any PPP, it's because there was no profit and there was no payroll. They said, too bad, even though you still got to pay all the monthly overhead. As long as you have a source of income to live on, it's a tournament-specific facility. I'm not a bar that has pinball machines. I'm not an arcade for the kids that once in a while we have pinball tournaments. It's specifically for playing pinball tournaments. So if you want to open a place like that, you need to have a good tech. I'll tell you that. Yes. Fix the games. And you need to run the tournament. You know, people that come here, they're very critical. The better the player, you know, they definitely want the games to play good. And, of course, when the ball drains, it was never their fault. It was their fault 100% of the time. I tell you that all the time. Yeah. Yeah, just, you know, let it be like the duck and let the water roll off the back because that's just how it's going to be. And have fun. As long as you're having fun, that's what it's about. I mean, I'm having fun hosting these tournaments. And I just really enjoy it and the challenge of it. And the better the player that comes, it's like the next level. And watching how they play, you know, watching on the stream, obviously you can see a lot of things. but playing against them head-to-head or in a group is just another thing. It's awesome, and you can really see how they can handle the ball way better than I can. And you just learn these little things each time. I can tell you the Super Series last year was a big wake-up call for me when all these players show up and just how they played, and especially the classics. They have such flipper handling skills. It's just amazing that they can do that with the ball and just keep it in play. And it's not the brand-new game with the super-deep rule set. We're talking like Supersonic or Alien Poker, where it's just like they can hold it. They can keep it going. You've got the double flip from the one side where you can lose it, but yet they can still lift one and trap it. And it's just like, my God, these guys are amazing, and gals. It's Carrie Wing especially. When she was watching her and I was matched up with her a lot during the Super Series, and I was like, wow, she's just amazing with the flipper handling.
    29:13
    And then you just go back and practice. So it just makes it fun. I'll say when I was there, Eric is very positive. Yes, he is. I was just going to say that. And I think that's important. when Eric has to stand there as a player explaining to him the 10 things he could do to improve the tournament. He was very positive the whole time.
    29:40
    No, you know, if every little thing gets to you and then, you know, you know how it is. You get some players that complain and it's like the end of the world if they don't get their way and they make a big scene about it. It's just like, people are people. Yellow card!
    29:58
    eric eric makes it fun i mean that's that's the big thing you know competitive pinball needs a lot more of that and like you said a positive attitude yeah i mean pinball's got a lot of different formats but i i pretty much stuck with match play from the start four player match play group match play it's social and it's fun you know there's tons of different formats and we definitely experimented with some of them especially during covid when there's you know capacity restrictions and all this other stuff but at the end of the day four-player group pinball where you're playing against other people is awesome and uh you can sit back you can talk a little bit you can chit chat you can still watch somebody play but also you're not giving somebody 10 tries to put up a high score because if you give a better player 10 tries and then you get 10 tries, they're always going to win. In a direct play situation, anybody has a chance. Yeah, they'll probably win 8 out of those 10 times, but a couple of times you'll sneak by and it's a lot of fun.
    31:08
    I agree. I totally agree with you on that. Now, you have something coming up. People can come to the 2022 Summer Pinball Classic details coming up soon. Registration will open up this Saturday at 9 a.m. Central Time. Bruce, are you reading from something? I am. I'm not prepared. That's the good thing. I am looking out for everyone here.
    31:32
    You want to tell us a little bit about this? Yeah, Summer Classic. So the Summer 2X, which is what we usually did, was just a one-day event where we had a match play and a knockout. and um after seeing the success we've had and so many people wanting to come to district 82 for multi-day events i was like let's just let's just take the great lakes open and put a little steroid injection into it so essentially we're coming up with the summer pinball classic it's going to be five tournaments friday saturday and sunday two of those five tournaments will be certified for the for the 20 boost in the whoppers and then for the people that can actually get away even more. I'm doing a Wednesday night standalone tournament and a Thursday night standalone tournament if it fits your schedule. So that's a total of seven tournaments over five days. If you want to come to the whole thing, all the formats are direct play, essentially. There's no standard line. You're going to be playing the whole time that you're here. And if you don't make the finals for one of those two certified events, then we've got an alternate tournament running concurrently. We've got a big enough space. They'll be in two different sections with two different computers running the two different tournaments.
    32:50
    Tom will be streaming the finals of the certified events. It's a whole other tournament and it doesn't interfere with the other one at all. It's just a blast and everything's on free play. In between your rounds, you're playing whatever and you just keep playing pinball. We'll get some food trucks, bottled water is free. The only other thing I sell is soda for a buck. I don't really make money on that. I just want to provide it.
    33:18
    Yeah, that's what it is. Actually, I don't even know what the cost is. I'm not staring at it. That's like $240.
    33:27
    Sorry, $225 plus 5.5% sales tax equals $237.38 for the cost of the event. We'll do it legal-wise just so we cover ourselves.
    33:38
    And how many people are going to be going? It's 120 people now? Yeah, I got it at 120. It's the middle of August. It gets hot. It does get hot. And I just didn't want to pack it to 150. Ron, this tournament's calling you, Ron. Oh, because it'll be warmer in there, yes. Yes.
    33:57
    Ron loves heat. I love heat. Me too. I love it. So, yes. Although Eric's going to try to freeze me out by putting some air conditioners by me. No. Story.
    34:10
    That's the one thing we have different. Luckily, at the Rochester Pinball Collective yesterday, we had 55 people there, and it was 67 degrees. And outside, it was 89. Too cold. Zach likes it cold, so he cranks down that. We have three AC units, luckily, so we really can get the place cold. We're lucky with that. But I don't mind the heat. I just guess what? You dress in shorts, you wear some deodorant, you're good to go.
    34:38
    So, Tom, a couple weeks ago you posted a picture of a Starz play field. Oh, yes. Are we going to be putting that into something good? Yes. I picked up a Starz that had – it's in good working shape. It just – somebody touched up the middle part. It actually looks pretty good, but the problem is they – I don't know if the person, whoever clear-coded it did a terrible job. It's like there's like mountains in there. Ripples. Yeah. Oh, big time. Like, yeah, Mount Everest. Nice. So I just said, looked on CPR, and I'm like, okay, I'll just get a play field and swap it in. There you go. Congratulations on that. We saw that. So this will be a fall-winter project, I'm assuming? Yeah, it might be a summer project. Even better. Yes, nice.
    35:37
    Congratulations. Just to say, there is a Starz at District 82, so it passes the test. It passes our test. The Slam Tilt podcast. Eric probably doesn't know this. You guys are stern classic fanatics. Yes, we are. All right. Yes, so, Ron, we both have a Dragon Fist. We both have Cheetah. We both have Nineball. We both have Big Game. we both have quick silver we both have stargazer i just got a free fall yes can't wait to try that out i have actually two stargazers right now you have one and a half one and a half actually one and a half we like that gametron i have one and a half gametron so yeah we're big into early sterns what's your favorite system what do you like to play and what do you like to work on um for me Yeah, actually, I like the classic Bally's and I guess classic Stern since they pretty much stole the design.
    36:40
    I'm on board. We're trying to get Gary Stern on. No, you didn't steal anything, Gary. You totally invented it yourself. You did not reverse engineer the Bally system, even though it was your company did it. and then I like the 90s Valley Williams games I like working on those too they're very easy very simple well as far as working on games yeah it's the 78 to 85 Valley 17-35 system and the Stern 100 the same Stern 200 is a little different but those are the ones I like working on if you're new to pinball and you want to learn how to fix pinball machines, that is the system to learn it on. Yes. Bar none. The ballet diagnostic, you know, the seven flashes, this genius and way easier to figure out than the Williams from the era. Then as far as what games I like to play. Yeah, like as in like era, like, you know, are you a Williams 90s guy also? Well, it's like. You like System 11s, you know? Yeah, so we all start out right with whatever we can afford. And then it usually gravitates towards newer and newer and newer games. And then you want nicer and nicer and nicer games. And then at some point, it's like, where do you settle out at? I love playing Getaway. I love that game. But I do love the early classics, the Bally and early Sterns. They're just a little more simplistic and not overly deep in the rules where you're, it's like, there's nothing better than ripping that spinner and getting that sucker to go like 30, 40 times when it's lit. And you're just like, yeah, that's right. Take that.
    38:29
    Especially like on Meteor and other games where it just, you know, that's the jackpot, right? And easily achievable, but difficult to hit under the pressure. Yes. And that's it. But, you know, the new games are all a blast too, you know. They are. a matter of learning it. Yeah, getting used to the systems.
    38:54
    Also the rule sets on these games. What's the worst system you hate to work on? If something in your place breaks down, besides an EM. If you look at the game list, you'll notice there's some glittering exceptions that are not in there. There are no system ones. There's only one system 80. That's because I love the music on RoboWar. I'll fix that but that's not the original flippers those are Williams flippers yes they are I can tell and that's why you can actually hit some shots yeah any of the you only have one 6803 yeah I don't mind 6803 it's just there's not that you know I don't know there's just not that many good ones but you have the best one you know you'd think BMX is a 6803 but it's not, even though it's got the lane Dungeons and Dragons and whatnot. But that's still a Dash 35.
    39:52
    And any of the Italian or any of the other ones, I don't have those there. And then, honestly, the newest stuff, you know? Like two?
    40:07
    You know, I can't fix any of the new stuff. I know. It is frustrating. And so then it's like then you're – and you can't pick up the phone and call them either. It's like, oh, hey, we'll get you a node board when we're done building new games, you know, or any of the companies to get a new part, you know, that they're 3D printing, and they're still sticking them in the new games and not giving them to the old games. So it's like, hey, I just bought this $8,000 game, and I can't use it because something's broken on it. And it's super frustrating. George said he's fixing the communication problems. Yeah, he's reiterating what you said last week. This is some pretty nice correlation. Bruce still needs to apologize to Stern, though. No, I don't. Because George Gomez says they're working on the whole lack of phone support thing. They've been working on it for a year. Oh, okay. Well, the reason why I got Avengers Affinity Quest at my house is because when I first got it, there were issues. And so I stuck it in my basement. It took four months to get the issue resolved. And now my son loves it, and I can't bring in District 82. So there you go. That's why we don't have one at District 82. Fair enough. And it was new in box, but yet you still have to figure it out yourself. There's no dealer that's going to come over and fix it or bring it back to them to get it fixed. And it's just it's it's a really expensive machine. All the new ones are. And the people that are buying them don't really know how to fix them. I know how to fix them, but I couldn't because, you know, the part that's needed under warranty is not available. and um but yet you can take any game from 2007 or older and i can fix every component on all of it um with all the through hole technology and everything else and and yeah a lot of the stuff is obsolete but you can still find the parts you can still fix it and you know just drop dark just everything so it's just the newer games are great obviously they're packing everything into a tighter a tighter space but uh if there's nobody to fix them and there's no way to fix them eventually it's going to catch up and we're going to have a whole bunch of expensive bricks out there and people are going to get frustrated with i think it's going to come sooner than later you got a bunch of games that don work in your basement and no one to fix them i get that phone call a lot Oh I need a game fix I need a game fix And it like I I don have time I got a hundred games I working on
    42:26
    So I, yeah, but hopefully, hopefully they get it sorted and, and actually just have a stockpile of parts that they can sell. Yes. It is a big complaint. So I got one more, a couple more questions I want to have for you guys. How did you guys get into pinball? Oh, I thought we were going to get by without that one, Bruce. Nope.
    42:48
    I'll go first on that. I got just one night I was – I wanted to play Punch-Out, the old arcade machine, and I got into MAME. Well, that led into visual pinball, which is strange, I think, to most people. Like, really? You got into visual pinball? That's how you got into pinball? But I started playing some of the games, and I didn't realize that they were actual pinball machines. and the rest is history. I'm like, everybody I knew was like, oh, that's not pinball. It's a video game. So then I started getting into pinball and collecting them, and the rest is history. Tom, just to let you know, that's exactly how I got into pinball. Really? Literally, that's how I got into pinball. It was through video games. I had someone at work who found MAME. They couldn't figure out how to use it because they didn't realize it's an emulator. You have to like hit five to insert a coin and then one to start and all that stuff. So once I did that, I was like, I'm going to get all the games I had when I was a kid. I played when I was a kid and then it was like, no, I need all of them. Right. And then that wasn't enough. It's like I need a cabinet. And it just so happened like the control panel that came with the cabinet had buttons on the side. So I saw this visual pinball thing. Well, first, because if you used it, it's visual pinball. I'm going off on a tangent here. Visual pinball and there's pin maim that you need both components. First, I just had pin maim and it just sat there at the screen, you know, like the DMD. Like, this sucks. You can't play this. Then I actually read the documentation like, oh, you need this other stuff. And then I found that's what I was playing on my cabinet 90% of the time was visual pinball. I wasn't playing any of the video games anymore. Yep. And that's – so then I needed the real thing. No kidding. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, I got into it. Well, we always I mean, everyone played it when they were a kid. Right. So that's that's where it all came back to, you know, getting a few quarters from mom and going to the arcade. And and I play video games just as much. But there was something about pinball to where you could win a free game and you could just keep going. So I would literally go to the arcade and because I only was given 50 cents or a dollar. and I would actually go through and look at what the replay values were on the games and know which one that I could exploit and then just play that game over and over and over again and get the free games. But then fast forward to, you know, I didn't own any. Fast forward to, man, 12 years ago and I was at home and I did find out about MAME and I was looking up some of the old classic games and then just researching it and playing them online. And it was fun. And then all of a sudden I started thinking about it, and I was like, man, pinball machines. I haven't played pinball in a long time. I looked up locations to play around Green Bay, went out to the bars, and found them. None of them were accurate for what they said they had. So you'd walk in expecting to see Indiana Jones, and it ends up being, you know, Theater of Magic or something from all these online places. and it just immediately clicked and I was like, wow, I really love this. And then I wanted to buy one. And so then after researching it for a long time and getting permission to buy a pinball machine, she said, okay, you can go buy one, you know, $1,500. You know, that was my limit. So I went out and found a guy that had mousing around and eight ball, sorry, not eight ball, pool sharks. He had mousing around with pool sharks in his basement. And I was like, well, how about we just do $1,500 for the pair? And he said yes. Sold. Yeah. And, of course, I was told they're 100% working, you know, which when the first time you're seeing it, you're like, all right, this is great. Flippers work. Works great. Bring them home. Explain that I got a two-for-one deal, so that's why I went over my limit on the number of pinball machines I was allowed to buy. And the rest is history, you know. And it just grew from there. You know, once that first pinball machine makes a toehold in the basement, it's over with.
    47:00
    It's like Lay's potato chips. You can't have just one. Yeah. It just grows. And then, you know, a dozen years later, you've got a warehouse full of 100 of them, and everybody from around the country and internationally is coming over to play them. I like me some pool sharks. I don't know why. It's just goofy. I like mousing around. Well, I love mousing around. That's why I have him bouncing around. So how about games you like, games you hate, Brutes? This is the perfect time to do that. This is the perfect segue. So here comes the pressure on these two gentlemen. Game they like and game they hate. This could be tournament. This could be repairing. This could be any way, but you've got to explain why. You can't, like, I don't really hate anything. We get that a lot. It's like, really? I think I got Eric on this one. Eric will definitely give me a game he hates. Okay. You want to know a game I hate? Just look at the games I've sold.
    47:55
    I hate to say it, but it's like all those Gottlieb System 80s, boy, I cannot stand working on them. And I realize everyone's going to go from the what game do they want to play perspective, but I'm the one under the hood. And it's just like what a horrible system to fix.
    48:13
    Everything's weird in that it's unique to Gottlieb. There's no crossover, really, between any of their systems. and then you can't get the damn schematics or the books for free online. It just isolates it from the rest of the pinball systems. Hey, Eric, if you ever need one, just come to us. Yeah.
    48:37
    It's just frustrating. Once you get frustrated enough, you just say the heck with it and move on. Unlike the Bally and the Williams and everything where everything's out there, There's the manuals. It's a lot more straightforward. You can understand it. The voltages aren't bizarre. It's just a lot easier. And then when you can understand it, it makes sense. You play it more, and you go one way versus the other. Obviously, Gatlin is like the EM. That's what everybody loves from that era. But I still like the Bally and the Williams EMs. I don't like working on them as much. But they're still fun. They're still fun. And like I said, Getaway, I love that game. It's just a fast, great game. It's all-encompassing as far as playing it with the music, and it's not super deep, but it's fast, and it's fun. Steve Ritchie agrees. They wouldn't like me making that kind of game at Stern. That's why I'm at JGP now. I'm going to wait three years until I can get it out the door. Yeah. The Getaway 3, it's going to be great. Coming in 2027. Oh, gosh. So, Tom, that's a hard act to follow. Come on. No, it's okay. My favorite game's got to be Spider-Man. Nice.
    50:01
    It was my first new in box, so there's a little love for that. And then I just like the flow of it. I love the theme, so I don't think it'll ever leave my collection. Hey, Tom, do you know what my first new in box game was? Spider-Man? Yes. we have all these parallels wow and then uh games i like i could think of one game i just just loathe and that is wizard of oz yes yes we agree again this is amazing brothers not only for just the play of it i mean the play of it's i guess okay but no no just owning it and having those little light boards just go like every other week when i owned one it was just such a pain in the ass but uh yes they are yeah well that's cool that's a good thing what's funny like tom you are on another podcast yes triple drain and your host there joel he doesn't seem to want to hate anything He's like afraid that he'll get criticized. It's so hilarious listening to him. But did you hear him go off on Halloween? Yeah, he goes off on Halloween. Then his whole thing about I'm going to TPF and spooky people are going to be there. I mean, I'm a pretty – Oh, that's because I was teasing him about it. I'm like, they're coming for you. He's like, well, I'm a pretty big guy, so they probably won't physically assault me. It's like, do you think – So at 5'8", 140-pound Ron here, better not ever say a game sucks because if I go to a show, spooky Luke, 200-whatever pounds with his affliction shirt on, he's going to come over and beat the shit out of me like how Jerry said about Halloween. Ron, I got you covered. Yeah, Bruce will be my bodyguard.
    51:58
    I have no problem telling anybody where to go. So what about Rush, Bruce? it's there see i love it it's better the pro sucks hate to say hey i think pro praise fine i've been playing a ton of the pro it's got a lot of rejects kickbacks not this one this one amazingly plays good i think it's because the it has no protector so the hole's completely blown out Yeah, great. But because of that, it actually plays good.
    52:35
    I don't know. I play that at League. I'm so sick of hitting the bash toy crap. What's the bash toy? Well, hitting the time machine ten times before you can turn. It is a bash toy. How is that a bash toy? It's like the ring on Lord of the Rings. What game do you love, Bruce? It's literally the same shot. I like the game. But there's no bash toy really on, you know, it's just.
    53:03
    I would say that the premium and LE have more of a bash toy because the ramp isn't always up and you actually hit the thing. Yeah. It's my argument. Everybody says it's easier, but I think it's more difficult. Yeah. You have a more chance of draining. But the actual ramp itself on the premium is definitely wider. Oh, yeah. I keep on complaining to Timmy and Ray that it's got to make the text a little bit better. for this old people well i was thinking here you go so they have what they have one wizard mode in there now yes so they got what two more yes two more to go we're coming you know because they have the one and then they got to do the two then i i think 2000 uh 2112 was supposed to be the uber wizard mode correct so here's here's my vision you see what you think here tom this is this and i know raymond are you listening this is of course listening of course they probably already figured this all out but here's what i'm thinking this is assuming the magnet can hold the ball long enough because i'm assuming the shot to start 2112 is going to be the time machine because that's the shot to start the other wizard mode so i figure they're not going to make that any different sure you hit it holds the ball there and you know how you can pick 2112 during the game but it starts like into the song and like it doesn't do the beginning part well this time it does the beginning part you hear the and it just the lights dim it starts doing cool lighting effects and then you can show the instructions during that part of the song i think i think they need to get ron as a consultant and then and then when the drums you know the light the light you do so much with the lighting effects expression lighting flash flash flash flash flash flash flash flash I've just got this in my head. And as soon as the drums kick in, boom, then you shoot all the balls out, because I assume it's going to be a multi-ball probably, and you start. Yes, it's going to hold it there a long time, but the presentation would be insane. You're going to be so disappointed.
    55:10
    It's like, what was it, Black Knight sort of rage when I was waiting, like the regular multiball because black night 2000 has probably one of the coolest multiball intros ever seen. So I expected something like that. And it just kind of starts. Now it's disappointed.
    55:28
    Boom, boom. I'm sorry. And on that note, Ron, thanks for bringing the show. I'm sorry. Well, before we go into other, other things, which are going to help us with guys. So anything else you want to plug, Plug, plug, plug time. Just my Fox Cities Pinball channel for me, and Twitch when we go live, and then on YouTube for anything after that. Eric? Yeah, well, the Triple Flip's coming up here June 3rd and 4th. That'll be on Twitch with Fox Cities Pinball Stream, so everyone can watch that if you're not coming to play in it. And all the big tournaments are definitely being streamed on Twitch with Fox Cities Pinball Stream. Check them out. The bigger events that I got coming up, other than the Summer Pinball Classic, and then we have the Super Series after that. So that one will probably sell out really, really quick if you want to get on that. Other than that, it's Tuesday nights. We're killing it. Come have some fun on Tuesdays. Is there a website I can go to find about all these tournaments? Oh, yeah.
    56:34
    You're saying all these things are coming up, like, okay, yeah, I want to join. How do I do that? Yeah, district82.com. so just district82.com and you'll see those you'll see those events also follow them on facebook oh yes follow on facebook i really do the announcements on facebook i also send out emails a lot very well yes you do very well with that and so if you want to get on the email list you either play an event at district 82 because the only way to register is i need your name and email address or else when you go to the home page of district82.com you can scroll about halfway down and give me your email address. And you will hear of the announcements coming up with direct links, and I usually summarize it a little more in the email as to what's coming up. That, by the way, has taken a long time to learn. You want to tell everybody every little detail and every little payout and everything else on the emails, and then you realize they don't get past the subject line. You put a link to all the rules on the bottom, and you do it in the website. That's the easiest way. Yeah. It's just like nobody reads. nobody really did uh so you're just like well this is how much it costs this is how much you can win and this is where you sign up it's like all right that's what i need to know so it uh that took a long time to learn that are nationals going to be there at district 82 am i just misremembering i guess we don't really have to because you have to be kind of invited to do that but yes that's kind of a big deal yeah so we're going to host nationals uh in uh in march uh at district 82 so nationals are on uh thursday i don't remember the exact day but uh you got to win your state you know uh to come play or your province to come play and then pin masters will be the next two to three days after that for the two days of qualifying and then the final day of playoffs and i was so happy when josh contacted me to to host that because i really i feel like we're going to do a great job and knock that out of the park and everyone's going to look at this as like hey it's a great culmination to a year and uh at a great facility and everybody had a good time plus i would think if it goes really well ifpa worlds in two years why not you know yeah you never know i don't know what josh uh has on the docket i know he probably thinks of those things a few years a few years out and with josh start thinking about us in four years so yeah i'm down for it let's do it yeah totally cool is there anyone here going to uh the one tournament that's upcoming next weekend the ifpa world championships i am i am yes thomas ranked pre-covid too because this is this was supposed to be the 2020 uh time but yeah i'm sure i'll i'm sure i'll go there and get my ass shit he sounds really excited i know i always sound so confident going into this don't i yeah well it's going to be in florida at um what's the name of the place the pinball asylum which is eric stone's home arcade that he's been blowing up games to obscene level so I have my pick for who I think is going to win.
    59:52
    Yeah, that would definitely be a good one. But, you know, there's going to be a lot of great players there, and we'll see what happens. Sweep the leg, Tom. Tom, sweep the leg.
    60:03
    I might have to. I always wanted to do IFPA trivia to see how many IFPAs can you name, like the locations, in order. God. So, Bruce, you're out, so you can't. I'm out. I couldn't do it. You think you could do it? I couldn't do it. You couldn't do it? No. How far back do you go? This is IFPA 17, so I know last year it was in Italy.
    60:29
    Let's see if I can do this. I'm only going with the 2000 ones because the 1990 ones I wasn't. I was like in probably high school or something. I have no idea where they took place. The first one when they brought it back was in Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas.
    60:43
    His original location, Tim Arnold. Not the third one that he's currently in. I think I went to the second one for nationals. That was something. The second one was in England somewhere, like out in a farm or something. See, the next year I think was in Minnesota.
    61:01
    That dude who owns like has like a game building. Jason Roofer? Yeah, that sounds right. And then the next year was the one in Sweden where they couldn't pay anyone, which they found out like a day or two before they were going.
    61:14
    I remember that was the whole thing. Like, oh, yeah, they couldn't legally pay anyone. It's like some Sweden thing. Yeah. Let's see. The next year was at Todd McCulloch's house.
    61:24
    Yep. Outside of Seattle. And then the next year, I think, was Germany. Germany will be victorious! Then the next year was the one in Colorado.
    61:38
    Okay. And then the next year was the – I think they were in Sweden again. They made a return to Sweden. and then the next one I think Papa was right before so they just they pigtailed on that so it was they just did it at the warehouse and then the next year it was in Denmark then the next year I think was at Adam Becker's place in Canada and then the next year was oh Italy that was the Dracula game that became famous Johannes versus Daniele game Yeah. Yes. I watched that live. My favorite part was the fact that it's one of those streams where there's no swearing. He doesn't want any swearing. And they had Kaylee on there, and he's just dropping F-bombs as soon as he passed them. Holy fucking shit. Oh, how fucking believable. It's like, oh.
    62:28
    All right. So plugs. I'll plug something. Rochester Pinball Collective. Bruce, where is it? Oh, boy. 349 West Commercial Street in East Rochester, New York. Suite 2965. Do you have anything coming up, Bruce, that we should... Yes, we do. We are on our one-year anniversary coming up. So on June 11th, we are having a tournament included with your entry fee, and we'll be paying out money towards this tournament.
    62:57
    Anyone can come. Come one, come all. Check us out on Facebook and on our website at rockpinball.com. R-O-C, pinball.com. All one word. okay we're gonna go into our ball bag poor eric is like what the fuck did i get myself into we apologize we needed a funny name for our mailbag so you know ball balls and Pinball right Yep And I got a bag Yes okay Full of them
    63:35
    Oh, my. And sometimes they ask questions so our guests can help us answer. There you go. Let's see. This is from Glenn. Hi, Glenn. He says, oh, this is about when I was talking about the PopGuard last week.
    63:50
    I'm not an expert in pinball, but I do believe my college degree as an audio engineer allows me to nitpick one small minuscule thing. A pop filter or a windscreen is designed to stop wind from plosives in speech. It's P's and B's. It also works as a de-esser. Sibilance is the sound you make, I probably said that wrong, when S's and soft C's cut through louder than desirable. However, we can never get enough of Ron and Bruce's hard C's. Oh my. Great episode as always. I always look forward to listening at work when I see a new episode waiting on my phone. Bruce, stay dirty, my friend. Yes. To beyond from infinity. Okay. Yes. It's like me just leaving like the Captain Morgan guy. Be dirty.
    64:35
    The email from Chris. Chris, we saw your request. We will be contacting you. Yes, we will. Chris wants to be a guest. We definitely did it. We already have our next guest already lined up. Bruce has actually been working the phones. For once. He's doing a job. Doing my job. Carl.
    64:53
    with a C. He says, let's see. I did want to correct something that made me cringe when I heard Bruce give the name of Dr. Dirty. As a fan of The Good Doctor during my younger days, I felt I would be remiss if I did not provide you with the facts. I'm sure you'll recognize John Valby as the piano-playing virtuoso who goes by the name Dr. Dirty. Dr. Dirty, John Valby. Yes. Did you screw that up last week? I don't think I did, because I know Dr. Dirty for over 30 years. Okay. He used to go to Poughkeepsie and everything else. He lives in Buffalo. Oh, okay. He is a known person up here. And then one last one here we had from Rabia. He's the guy who gave our MSC, what am I saying, Midwest Gaming Classic field report last week. Yes, he did. He said, thanks, guys. Of course I should have known Harlan Globetrotters is a solid state. Oh, that's right. He said it was an EM. The digits were staring me in the face. He says, my spot for my favorite EM is still open. Any suggestions?
    65:53
    Anyone have EM suggestions? Any Williams 4 player in the late 70s? Don't say Grand Prix. Everyone says Grand Prix. No, I'd actually go with Argosy. I like Argosy. Or what I just grabbed, which was a hot tip. Or Spanish Eyes. I like Spanish Eyes. It's a one player.
    66:13
    There you go. Fastras, good one. Fast Grow is pretty good, yep. Yeah. What else? Going back to things that you hate, it's four-player VMs for me.
    66:25
    All the score reels and all the score motors. Yes, the player select unit. Yes, the player select unit, yes. I had fun with that on Prospector. Literally, I had to try three or four different springs before I found the one that worked right. Yeah. You just go round and round and round and round and let you know the whole day is gone. And then you're like, what happened here? Yeah. So I don't have any four-player EMs I disagree to.
    66:50
    Sorry. God. Failed. Get a high hand. Oh, wait a minute. That's the one that Josh sharp hates, right? Yes. Right. Or you can get Captain Card. You can borrow mine, Eric. Okay.
    67:06
    All right. That awkward silence tells me I'm out of segments. Yes, you are. We didn't really have any because we just recorded last week. No news, really. No eBay stuff? No eBay lookups? Yeah, Bruce. No, it's so fucking expensive now, but I do have a couple if you really want to go there.
    67:28
    Okay, I'm going to go back to it real fast. For those at home, this is where we scour eBay, look for the most ridiculous stuff. I always have a couple of my... Most of it is ridiculous now. It's not even ridiculous anymore. I mean, some of the stuff, it's like, yeah, that's what I usually see them for now, and it's like insane. Are you ready? On eBay, you're going to go type into the search engine my number. The search engine, yes, at eBay. The search box. Search for anything. The search for anything box. Uh-huh.
    68:00
    325-110-437-835. Oh, okay. Okay. I don't know, for $944? Yeah. Start looking at those pictures, boys, and tell them what you think. Oh, what is it? Is it in really bad shape?
    68:24
    Let's see. It's got some wear. Yeah. And it needs a refresh. You can tell them the whole story, Ron. It needs a refresh. That's what it says. powers on needs refresh i like that term bally bow and arrow four player needs work but working wait a minute needs work but working uh the lights turn on plug it in yeah i love it needs work but working that's just the left flipper is weak got great pictures of the instruction cards play field needs to be refinished light bulbs and new bumper kit does that mean what it needs that must mean what it needs. It needs light bulbs and a new bumper kit. Cabinet is solid and back glass is good.
    69:17
    Okay. Yeah. Would you or would you not buy that, boys? It's a little too much wear. Yeah. I totally agree. It is a New Jersey, Bruce, so you could pick it up. Oh, you could pick it up. It's closer to you. Yeah.
    69:29
    Are you ready for the next one? Sure. Ticket number 125-281-103. 873. What the hell? Black Knight Sword of Rage album? Is this the album? This is the album. For $775.
    69:51
    Is it autographed by the guy from Anthrax or what? A Sword of Rage vinyl record seal for $775. Yeah.
    70:07
    This is not a topper. Pinball machine, Black Knight Sword of Rage, vinyl record sealed.
    70:15
    I could probably ask someone at Stern, you got any of these hanging around? And he'd probably give me one. Yeah. They'd probably give you one as a prize for a tournament. They should.
    70:24
    Yeah, I saw that. I had to laugh. $100. Okay, here's a serious question. Would you rather have as a prize for a tournament a Black Knight Sword of Rage album or a Big Buck Hunter Translight?
    70:37
    Album. Yeah. if I get 775, I'm winning. Yeah. Because literally, I can't remember what tournament it was at. One of the prizes, you could win a Translight. And I'm thinking to myself, as long as it's not like a big buck hunter or something. And that's literally what it was. Like, oh, God, are you kidding me? You know they had some surplus crap. This was like within the last year. Like, you guys still have those? Oh, they still got them.
    71:05
    Ready for the next one. Okay. Okay, is this where you said that you only had a couple and then ten numbers later? I got them, of course. I only have a couple of them in my pocket, you know me. Okay.
    71:15
    374-075-940-274. What the heck? A countdown backless used for $849. Yeah, that's what the game should be. Yeah. Can't you get a refurb for, like, probably $300? Yes, you could. Well, yeah, if it's BG Resto, you might take five years, but you can get one. Free shipping. Yeah, it's free shipping. Hey, guys. That's the condition of that back glass, guys. It's not. I mean, it's okay, but, I mean, yeah, it's okay.
    71:56
    Yeah, it's okay. Now that I'm looking closer, it's pretty bad. Look at the back. For that much money, it's bad. It's bad. Wow. It's so bad, it's good. No, it's just bad. Good for us to laugh at. Thanks for it.
    72:09
    Oh, man, 97% feedback with that many. That's not good. Okay, ready for the last one? Last one, okay.
    72:17
    Here we go. So 334-448-308-565. This is one of our favorite sellers on eBay. Oh, everybody's favorite pen, Raven. Raven!
    72:38
    Oh, wait a minute. Is that the one you just hit the spinner? It's like in-lane spinner, in-lane spinner? Yes. Okay. You can't hit the ramp with it at all. Trust me, it's terrible. But the back glass, the back glass light is awesome. Oh, it's a new one. And you can get the guy's car, vehicle, and his license plate in the reflection of the picture.
    73:02
    I mean, it looks like it's in good condition. You all were in good condition. They never ran. Oh, $2,000. I mean, in today's market? $2,000 is a gem of a price. Well, it says this one is in very good condition. Has an alternate trans light, but I have the original as well. It's very nice with little wear. LED lamps have been added. It's hard to find this title in this condition.
    73:32
    Okay, this is loosely based on the Rambo movie, which is true. Rambo. I don't know, Bruce. I mean. For $2,000, would you buy this? If I really liked Raven and the current climate, well, I got to look at the play field a little more. I mean, the pictures, again, did he take the glass off at least? Yes, he did. He did do that. Oh, the play field doesn't look bad. It doesn't look bad because they didn't play. You can shoot that ramp that you'll never make it up. 85, 86, 87 it died and then it just sat in storage for 20 years 30 years Bruce oh that's all I got boys but there were funny ones there's only one pick and how scary is that when it was Raven that is kind of scary that is really scary well I think that's it I mean, come on, pinball companies, we need new games. Yeah, we need new games. JJP finally got your title out. JJP, where's our Toy Story? Are we all psyched for Toy Story? Would Toy Story ever be at District 82?
    74:43
    Wow. Yeah. We have to see, you know. We have to see the game. I'm not one that buys the new game and throws it on the floor right away because, honestly, the vast majority of them have issues anyway. So I'm not going to do that. I did get Godzilla, so that's probably the newest one that came out that I bought, and it was still nine months.
    75:07
    Wow. I'm not the early adopter. One thing I do have to say, though, you go back to Wizard of Oz, and you think about pinball machines before Wizard of Oz, because Stern was the only one from 2000 until, when was it, 2013, 14, 15, somewhere back? Yeah. there was no innovation. There was no innovation. Yeah, we had a red LED display. We still didn't have LEDs in the games. And Woz came out and blew everybody away with control lamps, RGB lamps, LCD screen, just everything about it gameplay-wise. And the look and feel was awesome. It was awesome and really launched the modern pinball into where we are now. and Stern has definitely pushed the envelope now as well. And it's just made everybody better. Jersey Jack came out, then you got American, then you got all these new companies coming out and pushing the envelope and it just makes everything better and so many more players. And now the tournament scene is growing. Everything is growing and competition is good and it makes everything better. Yeah, there's some hiccups along the way, but at the end of the day, it's a lot better and a lot more fun. and I'm enjoying all of it. That's a real positive way to end the podcast.
    76:31
    But this is Slam Tilt, so I have to say it also almost bankrupted them because they didn't charge enough for it. Yes. And it is the reason that the games cost what they do now because Stern looked at that and said $6,500 for this company that's never made a game and they have all these pre-orders. We are undervaluing our games. Yes. So then they came up with the whole premium and the LE and all that stuff and where we're at now. But yes, the innovations definitely started with that game. I mean, I love my dialed in. That's why I'm really excited about Toy Story because my favorite Jersey Jacks are all the Lawler ones. The guy makes a killer play field. What can I say? I agree. Yeah. Maybe you could do a promotional deal with like Jersey Jack now. He said all those positive things. He'll be like, we want you to be one of our first locations in District 82. Yeah. Well, I mean, our tagline has basically been play more pinball right from the start. And that's just what it's about. You just got to get out there and play. Play more pinball, period. You will have fun. You will get better. Everything will be better. You just have to play. Stop saying, oh, I'm no good. I'm not going to try a tournament. I'm not good enough. Ridiculous. Get out there. Play more pinball. Have fun. And that's it. That's it. Remember, it's more fun to compete. It says so on the games. Yeah. And always pick a game that's been certified for tournament play, like Meteor with the sticker there. Certified for tournament play. All right. Well, thanks, guys. Thank you for coming on. You guys are always welcome. And if you ever want to come on again and talk about upcoming series that are coming up, we would love to have you on. Will do. Awesome. Appreciate that. And don't forget my other podcast. Oh, Jesus Christ. Shut up. Silver Ball Chronicles, which can be heard on the Pinball Network, along with the Triple Drain podcast, which is also on the Pinball Network, part of the Pinball Network umbrella. I believe upcoming this, is it this Monday or next Monday? Whatever Zach Manning is doing with the Pinball Show. It's the new something for their 100th episode, whatever the hell it was. I don't remember. They had 100 episodes already? Damn.
    78:41
    They do them weekly. Yeah, we used to do that. That was dumb. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. We're doing it this week. Yeah.
    78:50
    Just to let you know, guys, our usual communication, Bruce will just text me. We're recording Sunday at this time. Like, what? We just recorded. We're supposed to do biweekly. What? He's like, no, I got guests. We're doing this week. I said, okay. Oh, yeah, we're recording the next week, too. All right. I don't know who the guest is. Bruce hasn't told me. Make sure you tune in for the next episode. Make sure you tune in. We're going to go different. We're not doing tournaments and stuff. We're going to go to repairs. Oh, so we'll lose even more viewers. More people.
    79:21
    Dab time for everyone. What causes more people to tune out, tournament talk or tech talk? What do you think? I think tournament. So what do you think? Listen to this because I'm on it or what? It's just like, I don't know what it is. It's just like, oh, you know, I like the tech stuff, but the tournament stuff, God, it's just so much. I love the tournament stuff. I love both, actually. And Bruce is retired. I'm retired. I just finished my last tournament. He just finished his last tournament. Sister K2 is probably one of his last tournaments, ladies and gentlemen. Yep. That and I did League. I finished second in League. And you're done. So does that mean when we stream, you can be permanent announcer? Yep. Okay. I don't know if that's a good thing or not. TD and everything else. And everything else. Unless you need like a fill-in. If there's like 31 people and you want to keep even groups, then I might join it. Hopefully you change your mind, Bruce, and you listen to what Eric said and have fun. It's more fun to compete.
    80:19
    Play more pinball, Bruce. How long have you known me, Ron? Bruce needs to win. I need to win or it's not fun. I have fun in the league. All the time. I'm never streaming again and I always show up. Yep. Bruce is the type. Bruce gets mad if someone has no idea what they're doing in the game and they're beating him. Oh, that really pisses him off so much.
    80:43
    it is a fucking like somebody's like oh yeah so you know on afm what do i have to do and somebody on the next one like oh you just got to hit some ramps and try to hit the thing and all of a sudden they're in total annihilation they're getting the super jackpot i'm like what the fuck i'm like oh my god you're killing me smalls you're killing me and there i am trying to hit a shot and like brick brick brick done i'm like oh my fucking god Bruce, just have fun. Play pinball. Yeah, I'm going to have fun. I'm going to have fun running the tournaments and being zen with everything else. Yes, when I think of Bruce, I think zen. That's the first thing I think of. That's got to be it, totally. Okay. Well, thanks, everybody. Until next week, you can get a hold of us at slamtillpodcast at gmail.com. Check out our website, www.slamtillpodcast.com. All our links are in the upper right-hand corner. You can watch our stream. Maybe Stu will come back one day. I don't know. Stu is awesome. Tom knows about Stu. Yes, he does. Isn't he an asshole, though? He is so... You don't want him at District 82. He'll be saying how he's going to beat everybody and all that, and then he'll probably just lose and quit and leave. I would pay for his flight out there. I would pay for his flight. You'd pay for his flight out there? Yeah, I would.
    82:05
    That's one thing I'll say about District 82. He's got to make an appearance. He does. District A2, the players there are probably the most comfortable with the streaming, probably because they're used to it of anyone I've seen. They will constantly acknowledge the camera where a lot of people just don't want to be on camera. They'll be like waving to it, making comments and stuff. I think that's pretty, I mean, which is a good thing. The more people you get to watch, the more personalities you get, the more people will watch the stuff. Maybe we'll come out there in the winter when Ron's not too cold, but, you know, still feel comfortable out there. We'll come out again and we'll check you out. Maybe you need an extra repair guy, Eric. Wink, wink. Hint, hint.
    82:47
    My service is up. Don't let anyone touch the games but me, Bruce. Yeah. All right. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, guys. Until next time. See you later, everybody. Say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Ryan Bobco.
    83:03
    Hold my mind, hold my mind Can you boogie, can you slide? Hold my mind, hold my mind You can boogie if you try Hold my mind, hold my mind It's guaranteed to keep you alive
    83:33
    Oh my. Okay, one thing we'll do here, I'm going to make sure everyone's on the recording. So we're going to do a Three Stooges intro. I think if you've ever seen a Three Stooges, you'll understand what we're doing. So ready, Bruce? Yep. Hello.
    84:20
    Hello. I'm here. Oh, hello. We'll call you Shemp. Yes. Oh, no, no, no. He's Joe Besser. Oh, he's the worst. I'm sorry.