TOPCast 27: Jonathan Joosten

TOPCast - This Old Pinball·podcast_episode·59m 0s·analyzed·Apr 15, 2007

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.026

TL;DR

Dutch Pinball Association leader discusses donation program, association growth, and Big Bang Bar ownership experience.

Summary

Jonathan Joosten, Dutch Pinball Association editor and pinball enthusiast, discusses his role organizing the association (1,000+ members), the successful pinball donation fund (93 machines collected since 2004), and his experience as an early Big Bang Bar owner who received his machine nearly a year before North American buyers. He also participated in pre-production assembly work at Illinois Pinball.

Key Claims

Dutch Pinball Association has over 1,000 members
high confidence · Jonathan Joosten stated directly in interview
Association collected 93 machines through donation program since 2004, with 25 purchased, totaling 118 machines
high confidence · Jonathan Joosten provided specific numbers during interview
Association has approximately 20 technicians working on machine restoration, with some specializing in electromechanical and others in solid state
high confidence · Jonathan Joosten stated in interview
Jonathan received his Big Bang Bar in summer 2006, ahead of North American deliveries, due to EU RoHS compliance deadline after July 1st
high confidence · Jonathan Joosten explained the delivery timing and reasoning
Big Bang Bar was limited to 111 machines originally, but Gene Cunningham expanded production due to high demand
medium confidence · Jonathan stated he called Gene Cunningham and learned about the expansion opportunity
Jonathan has played approximately 300 games (with extra balls, totaling 1,200 balls) on his Big Bang Bar since receiving it
high confidence · Jonathan stated directly during interview
The Dutch Pinball Association charges 30 euros (approximately $40 USD) annual membership fee
high confidence · Jonathan stated membership cost during interview
Association's collection is stored in a rented facility called 'the funhouse' with over 50 machines set up for play
high confidence · Jonathan described the storage and display facility

Notable Quotes

“I figured okay this is such a well everybody is doing it for the level of pinball obviously but not everybody's a journalist or something like that. Not that I am but I figured the quality could go up”
Jonathan Joosten @ early in interview — Explains his motivation for becoming Spinner magazine editor
“In three months time we had 40 donations. 40 machines and 30 machines in three months.”
Jonathan Joosten @ mid-interview — Demonstrates surprising early success of the donation fund program
“Most people who donated a game had no idea where to go or whatever their value was and we got really very decent games and titles that you really will surprise you”
Jonathan Joosten @ discussing donation success — Reveals the donation program attracted non-collector donors
“The most difficult part of organizing events is the logistics getting the games in the place you rented for the event...not only out of there but you have to locate bring them somewhere...basically back to our funhouse or wherever but you also have to unload the truck so that means people are busy to 3 4 a.m. in the night”
Jonathan Joosten @ discussing event organization challenges — Highlights logistical burden of operating a large machine collection
“When the game arrived I didn't even unpack it because I continued with my magazine because it had to go to the printer and I think I unpacked it a day later”
Jonathan Joosten @ discussing Big Bang Bar arrival — Anecdote showing his professionalism and priorities during the excitement of receiving the machine
“I was supposed to keep it silent because everybody who got their big bang bar got the request to keep it silent because a little bit pinball didn't want any negative reactions”
Jonathan Joosten @ discussing Big Bang Bar confidentiality — Reveals Gene Cunningham's concern about community backlash regarding European delivery timing
“When you unpack the game like that really everybody it's just it tracks some it tracks some attention it's drop that gorgeous especially in in bright sunlight it's like whoa you know”

Entities

Jonathan JoostenpersonDutch Pinball AssociationorganizationGene CunninghampersonKim CarterpersonBig Bang Bargame Illinois PinballvenueSpinner MagazineproductJVH Gaming Productscompany

Signals

?
community_signal: Dutch Pinball Association reports 1,000+ members with active infrastructure (magazine, website, forum, wiki). Association operates largest documented pinball collection in Europe (118 machines) through hybrid donation/purchase model.
high · Jonathan stated membership numbers, magazine circulation, and collection size during interview
?
operational_signal: Large-scale event organization (100+ machines) faces critical bottleneck: post-event teardown and transport requires 20 people working until 3-4 AM, limiting event frequency and venue availability.
high · Jonathan detailed specific logistical pain points and how they constrain event organization
?
product_launch: Big Bang Bar European deliveries occurred in summer 2006, ahead of North American orders, driven by EU RoHS compliance deadline (July 1st). Gene Cunningham deliberately kept this quiet to avoid community backlash.
high · Jonathan received confidential email from Kim Carter warning of 'flame wars' if timing became public; he explained RoHS deadline rationale
?
product_concern: Big Bang Bar European priority delivery created perception of unfair treatment for North American pre-order customers who waited longer. Gene Cunningham imposed confidentiality to manage community reaction.
high · Jonathan described being asked to keep the machine a secret and acknowledged Gene's concern about negative reactions
?
product_strategy: Big Bang Bar originally planned at 111 units but Gene Cunningham expanded production after overwhelming demand, allowing additional orders through direct contact.

Topics

Dutch Pinball Association organization and operationsprimaryPinball donation program and collection buildingprimaryBig Bang Bar ownership experience and qualityprimaryEuropean vs North American delivery timing and RoHS complianceprimaryEvent logistics and venue challengessecondarySpinner magazine editorial role and content improvementsecondaryEuropean machine sourcing and pricing trendssecondaryMachine restoration and technician specializationmentioned

Sentiment

positive(0.85)— Jonathan expresses pride in the donation program's success, strong satisfaction with Big Bang Bar quality and performance, and enthusiasm for the Dutch Pinball Association's work. He is pragmatic about logistical challenges but maintains positive outlook on future expansion. Host is also positive and encouraging throughout.

Transcript

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You're listening to Topcast, this old pinballs online radio. For more information visit them anytime, www.marvin3m.com. Flash Topcast. Right now on Topcast we're going to be talking to somebody that's involved with the Dutch pinball scene over in the Netherlands. He also has some experiences with the Big Bang Bar project as he currently owns a Big Bang Bar. Yes, that's right, he has in his possession right now a Big Bang Bar, a head of, nearly a year ahead of all the North American people that ordered him. So we're going to be talking about him and his Big Bang Bar and how it's held up over the last year. And also he was involved with building and assembling the Big Bang Bar's. So we're going to give him a call right now. Special guest. Special guest. Special guest. Okay so I'm talking with Jonathan Joaston. He's a part of the Dutch Pinball Association and editor for the Spinner magazine which goes out to the members of the Dutch Pinball Association. He also started up a pinball donation fund in 2004 which we're going to talk about and he also was part of the Big Bang Bar project and helped actually gene cutting him with some assembly and we're going to talk about that. So Jonathan how are you doing today? I'm fine thank you. Let's talk about your Dutch Pinball Association and the Spinner magazine and how you got involved with those and what your responsibilities are in there. Okay basically the Pinball Association was founded in 1992 if I'm correct. So this year we have our 15th anniversary. I joined the association in December 2000 and after I got my first Spinner magazine in the mail I read it and I was like okay I think the quality good go up. I really was like like okay this is such an well everybody is doing it for the level of pinball obviously but not everybody's a journalist or something like that. Not that I am but I figured the left good go up so what I did was I send in my own reports of trade fairs that were going on or competitions or big events and so on and basically in five year time I managed to become a chief editor of the magazine previous editor quit over a year ago because he did over 30 issues and he figured it was time to to leave to someone else and basically everybody was looking at me hopefully that I would take the job so. Do you have any experience in that in that in that field before or was this all just brand new to you? I had no experience in actually making magazines that was new but I used to already wrote for the magazine for five years and I had my ideas of how to improve and that's also one of the reasons I think I was asked to take what kind of ideas did you have for improvements? Well we have the pinball association and there is the magazine a lot of people become member of the association but they see it as they subscribe to the magazine and they see the association as something else so we have over a thousand members but if we have a big event and better have only 300 will show up because there's about 700 people just receiving a magazine reading it and not actually going to shows or whatever you know so. And basically okay when I took over I figured we have the magazine we have a website I figured we can try to integrate these more. What is the website? The website is www.nfepinball.com okay it's in Dutch though so there's a forum which is quite popular and basically it explains everything we do within the Dutch pinball association but what I found very strange was it's an organization run by volunteers and you would read in the Spinner magazine for example a few years ago that there was a new pinball game and you could read it on the forum on the website but there was no news item on the website which I found strange because I figured if you're a pinball association then if there is a new game coming out you want to mention that to everybody who visits your website so there are ideas to integrate the website and the magazine more recently we started a Wiki thanks to the webmasters basically to share our technical knowledge in that Wiki basically articles from previous Spinner magazines will be published and people can contribute their own experiences into one or if they have suggestions or if they think something is done wrong. We started that up two weeks ago actually I have to say it was our webmasters we did so all credit to go to him but as the association I'm talking about we so. Right now you so you're not you're just the editor you don't do the webmaster you know the possibilities. No I do some of the editorial work on the website if there is a news item or a new event coming up I can put it on the agenda but it's not my main priority basically or okay now what what's now used in 2004 you came up with this pinball donation fund what was what what's the purpose behind that and how did that go. Okay well basically every year the Dutch PIMMOL association organizes the Dutch PIMMOL open which is actually one of the biggest PIMMOL events in Europe. There's many people from abroad coming over I think even trained Augustine from America. Yeah Trent was the Dutch PIMMOL champion back maybe in 2004 back I can't remember three or two times four. Yeah it wasn't my place very nice guy. Oh yeah great guy great guy. Okay we used to do that every year and every year usually we had a sponsor supplying us with PIMMOL machines. At a certain point the sponsor chose to go into a different direction selling these games or whatever I don't know what happened because I wasn't that involved at that time so but it left the organization without a proper sponsor so we tried to organize events by asking our members to bring games so we could organize something and I brought a couple of games and that went well we had great events but we felt the need to build our own collection and several ideas were suggested how to get games basically and I was like okay we can buy games that's that's sure an option and we bought them actually from all of the over the place in Europe at that time prices were in some countries still very reasonable but I figured there's plenty of people who have a PIMMOL machine standing at home maybe it's broken or it doesn't work or nobody has played it for over a year or whatever it's being used for a table or a wardrobe or whatever sooner or later they want to get rid of it now some people will put it on eBay or some sort of equal website. Right I was just trying to sell it or something yeah well they will sell it or they will throw it away so a lot of people throw away games in Europe. I'm afraid so. Really? Yeah well basically when I suggested okay why don't we advertise that we are a PIMMOL association and that we if people have a game and they want to get rid of it we come over we collect it we pick it up when we do an event we we make sure we have the games restored and people are welcome to attend the event for free and they can play their own game basically but then it's working again and basically everybody was looking at me like nobody's going to give a PIMMOL machine away. So in three months time we had 40 donations. 40 machines and 30 machines in three months. Wait wait wait how did you advertise this? I mean how did you get the word out to let me because you're not just asking people in the association you were asking you know the whole world in in in in Holland in Belgium or whatever to donate machines right. That's correct actually most games were the natives from people who didn't even know there was an association because the members of our association know the value of a PIMMOL machine some of them are very how do you call it involves in the organization of events and so on and they donated games but that that's just a few. Most people who donated a game had no idea where to go or whatever their value was and we got really very decent games and titles that you really will surprise you well like what what kind of titles did you get? We got a Batman forever we got an Elvira what the scared stiff or the first one the first one the party monsters okay yeah Elvira in the party monsters let me think we got a centaur I've been looking for a centaur for years and I've been able to find one yeah maybe I should try this angle well what I always wondered since I noticed the success it had over here in Holland I figured this good work world wide basically because I know there's many countries where people okay for us collectors PIMMOL machine has some value and for one it has more than for the other but for people who just have one in in their home usually it's the wife that says sooner or later that machine goes out because I'm sick and tired of it and that's basically the angle that we use to to get the attention and but I mean how did you advertise this how did you get the word out what did you newspapers or something or internet or what okay well the newspapers came in the later stage the first thing we did was we put an advertisement on a website which is a sort of eBay but you can also a place add if you are looking for something okay and that website is far more popular over here than eBay actually eBay bought it a few years later and what's what's that website called it's called translate it's called marketplace mark market place or mark place well translate this marketplace and if you spell it basically like it's spelled it's ma rk tpl a ts dot nl okay and we put the ad there not everybody was too happy with that because there were also a lot of people who get their business from picking up free games and they weren't too happy with the idea oh I bet I mean so you had some vendors that were pretty mad at you yeah but then okay so that led to a discussion and basically I said okay I'm not forcing anybody to give their game to us but if people see what we do to the games and they decide to send an email and tell us that we can come over and pick up pick up their game then that's their choice so don't be mad at me right now that's that's a good way to do it and it's interesting so the when you get a game when you collect a game who does the restoration and repair work on it we do that as the association we tried to do it within a group of technicians I have to admit we started in 2004 and right now we really have a wall full of games that we still need to work on because it really was not we couldn't keep up basically because we had the first three months 40 games coming in and everything needed work everything needed tweaking so it takes time because after three months we had to stop advertising because we had no more room to store the games so how many machines did you collect in three months first three months 40 games you got 43 pinball machines in three months yeah no 40 pinball machines in three months and right now after three months we stopped advertising but we had an article in the papers people saved the article they cut it from the papers and up till now every month we still have one two sometimes three donations we don't advertise at all there is a page on the on the website of the pinball association but that's it and people still remember from a few years ago that we used to collect pinball machines and by now we have 93 donations and total collection of 118 games oh my god so 118 games that you've gotten using this method no we bought the other 25 with 93 were donated 93 donated you bought 25 so now when you guys have a show or something you basically you're all set you've got you've got a whole bunch of machines for everybody to play we got over 50 machines up and running and we are working on many others basically we try to you to do that in the weekends and not every weekend but usually every two or three months we try to pick a date then a bunch of technicians come in and we try to do as much as possible in a day because it's very difficult to get everybody in there and it's a country so people have to travel you know right difficult to get everybody's agenda said that everybody will be there at the same time now the I mean how many members are in the the Dutch pinball association and we have over a thousand family members you're over a thousand that's unbelievable because I mean like over here if we were going to try and have a pinball association just say you know in a in a state or two or five or whatever the size of your country I think it would be difficult to get a thousand people you know that's that's incredible that's a lot of members so out of that a thousand members how many technicians do you have that actually come and work on the machines okay in total say about 20 wow and they have their own specialties some people prefer to work on electron mechanical others on just a solid state wow okay so in the new you got 50 of these games all restored so now do you guys have on tournaments or shows in that are you you know every year or every month or how often do you do that what we recently started is basically we have I think 90% of all the games is stored in one location which we call the funhouse of the Dutch pinball association and over there over 50 games are set up and the rest is basically waiting to be fixed now what now where is this your clubhouse or your funhouse with the games in it I mean do you guys actually own this or do you rent it or we rent it you rent it okay so how much does it cost to join the Dutch pinball association and in your house it's 30 euros a year so 30 euros it's like probably $20 US I would say I think the what the US dollar being very low at the moment I think it's about 40 oh right right I'm sorry I went the wrong way yeah I went the wrong way sorry so that's 40 dollars so that means you got 40 dollars you know from each member times a thousand member yeah that's enough to pay rent isn't it yeah that's pretty good yeah okay but then we also try to organize events basically what we are looking for now is organizing the events actually in the same building as where we have the games stored because the most difficult part of organizing events is the logistics getting the games in the place you rented for the event all right we we used to rent a sports center where we set up 100 games and then we would have the Dutch pinball open every year we used to do smaller events which were on several locations throughout the country but it's more and more become difficult to organize these events actually the events itself it's quite easy once the games are there the difficult part is getting the games there and shipping them afterwards because when we played the finals and there usually we have also some sort of sponsoring raffle when that is over most people go home and then you're there with 20 people and you have 100 games and they need to be moved all right and the the venue owner is like okay we close at midnight and it's 6 a 6 p.m so you have six hours to get 100 games out of there and not only out of there but you have to locate bring them somewhere you know basically back to our funhouse or wherever but you also have to unload the truck so that means people are busy to 3 4 a.m. in the night and there's not many people who are willing to do that so that's the biggest problem in our association right now right right well it's so the funhouse isn't big enough to really hold you know the actual event in no no too bad it's not actually we're looking for a new venue bigger because we want to set up more games and we also actually are looking for a location where we actually can have our Dutch people open where we can have at least 200 300 people that's difficult to find right that's the biggest problem over here such locations are very rare to find on the on the market basically hmm now when you when you got when you get these machines all all when you get this clubhouse thing all figured out and when you have the machines already and you've got all your 100 plus machines set up in your new venue then are you going to have like a monthly thing or you're going to do a yearly show or what do you think you'll do then? Well we tried the monthly thing already actually we started with that this year so we had three so far the fourth one is not this week or this month this month we're having a party called the early spring a pimple party which is two days usually the monthly opening was at Friday night and we used to do it at the third Friday night of the month that happens to be the Friday night before the weekend so you figured it makes no sense if we're open two days the next Friday so we're not doing it this Friday or this third Friday of the month because we're open that whole weekend and actually it will be a very interesting event to go to because we will have for the first time in years and uh electoral mechanical competition on the Sunday and there will also be a team competition on the Saturday and both days we also will have a family guy available to play on by courtesy of JVH gaming products which is our main sponsor at the moment. Now when you how did the sponsors do they just provide games when you when you have your events or do they actually provide money too? So far as I'm not into the sponsoring part at all as far as I know most of them provide games okay and we used to work together with Silverstone Pimple Magic which is a sort of Pimple Museum they have about 35 Pimple machines over there we used that location several times for several events including the European Pimple Championship in 2005 and the Dutch Pimple Open in 2006 so we paid the location for a certain uh for for renting the location I think I'm not sure it's not my department but there's also some sort of sponsoring involved I guess. Now of your 100 plus machines are they mostly solid state or they mostly the lecture mechanical? trying to look up the the website I think it's about 50 50 right now I think it's 50 percent about lecture mechanical and 50 percent solid states there's a lot of the elder belly machines and the the solid state once I mean from from the late 70s and the early 80s and then there is a collection of dot matrix games which most of which we bought basically. Now when you were buying games what country were you mostly buying them from? I'm not sure if that's a good thing to mention oh really why is that? We tend to get more games. Oh okay you don't want to you don't want to cut your own throats sort of speak. Well basically most European the the people who really trading big amounts of games already discovered that market and I think it's I suppose to a friend of mine a few weeks ago he told me that in the past two years prices really went up they tripled basically. Right right yeah because there's a lot of guys over here that by containers of games from you know countries in Europe and and bring them in over here you know 70 70 games at a time in a container and you know they're you know they're and I've seen some of the prices they're paying and I was kind of shocked how much how much container games have gone up and and then the stuff coming in too on these containers boy oh man lately some of it hasn't looked that good it's been pretty poor poor condition you know so yeah lots changed in the last few years as far as that stuff goes. I remember when we picked up a bunch of 10 games and and if you would look at their condition I doubt if anybody would have bought them basically. Right right we left a few we had a budget for 10 games and we left out a couple which really were in in 2 bad shape I remember I remember a doctor who with basically the entire mini play field as a a a place in the bag as a puzzle figure out how it works because somebody took it apart and never put it back together so and then you had to hope everything was there so basically there was a game that we left there because we figured like we're not gonna risk that it's incomplete and then how the hell are you going to get your game working. Right right now the when you set up the the the Dutch pinball association is this um I mean how did you do it I mean that say the the Dutch pinball association association for some reason um closed or whatever who would get these hundred games I mean how would you how would you work that is there like do you have some sort of charter set up so that like you know you know the members are like almost like stockholders of the games I mean how how you know or do you guys just don't worry about that um some people worry about that um first I have to mention I'm not one of the founders of the association um it was already there when I got involved but I was involved in in the uh how do you call it the buying of the games basically we have a special commission who goes uh who is about buying games and restoring games and so on and I'm in that commission I see okay um if the association should stop for whatever reason which I don't hope then we really have a problem yeah I'd say yeah and then there's probably people that say that that will say that okay the games are basically um either donated and fixed with money from the association or bought with money from the association so everybody owns them right right yeah and um I think everything would have to be sold and um there would be a refund for for for the members if that would happen right yeah that would probably be fair all right we're going to take a break from our interview with Jonathan Joeston and we'll be right back after this message the pin game journal is a proud sponsor of Topcast it covers pinball like no other publication can the pin game journal is America's only pinball publication whether you're looking for new games or the classics reports on industry shows or collector expos insights on a game you want or features to help you fix the game you've got pin game journals for you their website is at pingamejournal.com all right we're back with Jonathan Joeston now let's talk about the big bang bar um you own a big bang bar right I sure do okay now how did you find out about the big bang bar project I mean because you did not go to pinball expo or yeah I'm sure you didn't go to the Texas pinball festival either which were the two places that that Jean Cunningham announced the availability of big bang bar and there was only I want to say a two month window where you could actually put your deposit in and get the machine how did you find out about it and get involved with that um I think I read it about it on the internet the Dutch forum which we have on the website of the pinball association someone mentioned it or I read it on pinball news could also be I think when I read it on pinball news I already knew and at the when I find out there was only 111 games supposed to be made and I've I knew about big bang bar I read the story and it really was something that I was like if this is ever going to be made then I really want one without even ever playing it or you know um so basically you would never played one before right no okay um I think I tried it once in pin main or what's it called right pin main yeah sure um basically what I did was I I called Jean Cunningham and I talked to him and I got an impression that he was really serious about this and he told me that there was a chance that he had so many requests then he would see if he would make more than 111 and when it turned out he did I signed up right away and I had no problem in paying half upfront so I as soon as possible I sending my check basically now the the European games of course were delivered uh I'll turn the summer of 2006 because they needed they needed to be delivered to be the the led the led solder law or the led I forget what the name of the law is you were you probably know arrow hs right right and so you got your machine you've had your machine almost a year now right yes and um I'm proud to say I was the first one to actually have it were you surprised I mean was there any the gene contact you ahead of time or anything or is it just like the shipping company knocked on your door and said hey we got a package for you um that's what happened with most members or buyers who bought one um actually I was uh I heard uh earlier I had email contact with uh Kim Carter um gene's daughter and um right at Illinois Pitball yes and she sent me uh um she sent me an email and she asked if my address still was correct and I was like why what are you going to send me and then I got an email back saying that it's strictly confidential that the Big Bang bars were already on their way to Europe but nobody was supposed to know because we uh or they didn't want to uh have they could foresee a flame war on on news groups and so on for delivering the Big Bang bars to Europe and well the Americans one were not made I guess it was something like that but they had a very good reason um because uh after July 1st it would be very difficult to get the games into Europe so um I was uh I think I was one of the first to know um basically I tried to um organize shipping for um once the games were delivered in Holland because I was fit I was to figure out are they going to uh somewhere in a warehouse in the in in the harbor where they would arrive or are they being transported somewhere can we pick them up whatever I was trying to figure that out and I think two weeks later I got a call from a um company who is uh was supposed to deliver the uh game at my doorstep and I was like okay can I come over and pick it up and that was okay too as long as I paid for the transport um while picking it up um so we picked it up the next day and now when you got the game home um how was it well packaged did they do a nice job they did an excellent job really okay and they had it they had a you know a custom box made and everything huh yeah okay and when you set the game up I mean have you ever set up a new stern no okay I was kind of curious if how like a new stern was packaged compared to you know jeans big bang bar I was kind of curious you know if they were used the same you know I don't know same packaging technique or whatever um but so how has you been playing the game for almost a year now how do you like it um I think I still think it's a great game really um fun part is when the game arrived I was um having I had a deadline for my spin our magazine and so when the game arrived I didn't even unpack it because I continued with my magazine because it had to go to the printer and I think I I impacted a day later or something like that it was standing in the middle of my living room um but okay at the end I was like okay let's let unpack this thing you know so um but the the strange thing was I wasn't supposed to share it with anyone because everybody who got their big bang bar got the the request to keep it silent because um um a little bit pimble um didn't want any negative reactions and so on you know you can understand probably sure yeah um yeah because we're still waiting for ours over here in the in the United States no one got one yeah okay and you don't have to wait much longer I have this feeling so um because what I understood is um I think most games are ready and some people already got their letter to come over and pick it up or something like that I'm not sure I'm trying to follow it but I don't have the time to to look at it daily so right um sorry where was I well the how was the game held up over the last year I mean how much have you played it how many plays have you put on it and you know is it holding up like you would would hope it is yes absolutely yeah first of all first thing I have to say um when I picked it up um we had to I was with another buyer we went together um we had eight games located in that warehouse for Belgium and the Netherlands no seven sorry um we had to pick up two and some extra parts um and we had a problem uh fitting them into the van so we had to unpack one of the games else we couldn't take both with us um so we unpacked the game outside it was uh clear sunny Carl Weathers and when you unpack the game like that really everybody it's just uh it tracks some it tracks some attention uh it's drop that gorgeous especially in in bright sunlight it's like whoa you know um I mean artwork and and so on I I had seen Big Bang Bar when I was at Illinois Pimble and because jeans machine was over there but it just looks like like so amazing um so brand new based and I know jeans quality control and he really didn't let me down he really delivered a class games can't say anything else um and my game is holding up very well I had a few minor issues um basically tweaking issues um so you set up the game and you have to tweak uh some some things I think there was one connector which was uh saw that the wrong way um but I wasn't able to uh to fix that myself and basically that's it um I checked last month and I think I put about 300 games on it right now that's not much um and Big Bang Bar has the option to buy in extra balls um I think I played over 1200 balls in total now you also um went to Illinois Pimble at some point and helped make the Big Bang bars right correct now tell me about that and how you got involved with that and what you did there and give me the whole story um well basically when I called Gene um and asked if I could buy a Big Bang bar I said I also wanted to be part of the production if possible and and so we talked about it and he said well if you want to come on over that's okay so we uh agreed on some some terms for that and uh he arranged for me a place where I could stay and um I was like building that game would be such an adventure so basically I took off one month and I went over for a month um at that time they were supposed to be building the games already um when I got there turned out um they weren't they had to wait on the playfields and cabinets weren't there yet and there were a lot of issues with um material that was produced in the wrong way or whatever so what I did was um pre-production basically um so you have to think of um putting the right skirts on the pop bumpers and um all that kind of stuff um um yeah make the assemblies yes exactly also keep in mind uh all switches are handmade so uh these have to be made um oh you mean the switches have to be have to actually be physically mounted to like a mounting bracket and then in I don't know did the diodes have to be added to the switches and stuff like that yeah okay so you were doing all that kind of work yeah yeah that's great as the grunt work okay well still um I was happy I was there because gene has amazing stories to tell and um when you know the um of course I check the news groups and it's very easy to to um I've read a lot of flame stories uh towards gene and so on um but when you hear his side then you completely understand why it takes sometimes so much time before something is uh produced so um for me I was very happy to um to have that experience um gene Georgiana came the whole family there's such a bunch of really nice people I think probably the nicest people I ever met ever and um I really wish them well you know um I had no idea what to expect I was already happy that it could come over um and then you're um basically when when you you're working that a first day in that warehouse it's like uh you're just a kid in a in a candy factory basically wow so were you working in Chicago or were you working at genes actual genes on genes property no genes property genes property and he has a he had a big warehouse setup with all the parts and like a little assembly line and everything yeah well the assembly line wasn't there yet uh they actually they were setting that up um so I saw the progress in that and um people have no idea how much time uh has been put into that project um working 12 hours a day is normal for those people over there and uh over here in Holland eight hours is regular I'm not sure what it is in in the US but yeah eight hours is a standard work day here okay people over there work 12 days an hour I'm not sure if they still do that but when I was there everybody was working 12 days an hour you know so they started eight and they finished at eight right right and uh and so when you were doing this um you know when you go home at night were you just like wore out no no no no no it was great fun being there um uh it's such a warm family and um I spent a lot of time with uh Kim who is uh uh uh gene's daughter uh with uh lots of fun you know um so how many other people did anybody else go with you um someone else went with me I'm not sure if I can reveal who it was because and nobody else knows okay uh but it was uh one other guy but he didn't order a big bang bar oh he just wanted to go over and do this yes that's crazy man well but you guys man you take a month off work to go build pinball machine parts okay well think of well okay uh when we uh I had no idea it was just a parts first of all but it wasn't a wonderful experience and I uh if I wouldn't know any uh what I do it again right away what do you think now gene's talking about making kingpin you know the other Capcom game what what what what do you think about that um what I understood is I use not actually making it himself um but there is a third party involved and they want to build it um if the game gets produced I think that's uh good basically are are you gonna buy one down it yeah my my problem with the kingpin is it's a lot more expensive you know it's it's um you know the big bang bar was $4,500 to me that that seemed really reasonable um but the kingpin is like seven thousand I want to say or seventy five hundred it's it's a lot more expensive um you know and it gets uh it's it's priced me out of the market it I'm not comfortable spending that much money you know on a pinball on a pinball game it just seems like a lot of money it is a lot of money um in the end it's probably worth it yeah maybe there's a lot of risk though um especially with the kingpin because uh you know with big bang bar you know gene had all these extra parts um you know that he bought surplus from Capcom but he used them all up but you know I mean he didn't have everything obviously but he but he he did have a lot and he used them all up uh you know I'm the big bang bar so now with kingpin he's gonna be starting from basically from nothing um you know he's got to make everything I don't think he has any boards any board sets I think the board said is the main problem the rest is yeah he's not a problem the rest is gonna have to have the board sets all all remade um and it just seems like it's gonna be uh a lot more of a time commitment um on the kingpin than it would be on the big bang bar that's just the way it appears to me I whether that's true or not I don't know but that's just the way it looks you know um I and what I understood the the company that is uh supposed to be doing kingpin already did some work for big bang bar um so I'm pretty confident that they can do it once they have the board set so the board set probably is the the um the big issue um and I know what the problem is with the board set because it all depends on on one chip basically if they can't produce that chip then they have a problem or they need to find a workaround you mean it's a custom chip yes right right and that's on the CPU board right um I have no idea where it is actually okay yeah yeah I think that is uh I think that is a major problem but um it'll be interesting to see yeah everything can be solved and everything the the the should art is a workaround but um obviously it will cost money to create such a workaround and you can uh obviously money can buy everything but general release it's spent so much money on big bang bar um it would be great if the games would be made I'm just not buying one because I'm not for me big bang bar was really uh almost a magical game uh game the the whole myth around it you know that was a great story I don't have that with kingpin right right and is did did owning the big bang bar is it met all your expectations yeah it has yes so the myths the myths are true the stories are true um well depends on the stories you heard of course um basically I was told by people who played big bang bar and they said well um uh game wise it's a nice game but it's not that difficult right yeah that's what I've heard too okay which is not a problem because not I'm not a good player so um it will take me at least 10 balls to get to to the final uh mode basically right you mean you keep buying in yeah and uh or uh well pinball all you need is one good ball basically so you um sure you can do it in one ball and if you if you're really good several times probably um I'm just not that good right I checked on my big bang bar I think I have an average ball time of one minute and 13 seconds and that's not only uh not not uh all my games alone but also from the other people who played it it's a very fast game I can't say anything else and um but it's it's still fun um uh I don't get tired of it and um I can name you plenty of tippinball machines I grew tired on pretty fast so um but I'm not going to do that haha good for you all right what do you have any other any other little interesting uh tidbits to kind of or you know any other stories to add um well um stories probably plenty but um come think of anything uh right now basically what I already said um very uh grateful to Jean for giving me the the opportunity to at least be in some way be a part of big bang bar story even though it was a very tiny part but still um I enjoyed being there and it was a great experience was also my first time uh going to America so um I enjoyed it very much now for the time now where did you stay when you when you were there where where where did where did you live um jeans arranged housing for me okay did that did that cost you money or did you know did jean do that free or um no I didn't have to pay for staying okay okay so so it wasn't too bad then I mean it so this trip wasn't too expensive or was pretty expensive um that depends on your definition of expensive probably yeah um no I think in total traveling and and so on I think for me I could afford it basically and so it wasn't that expensive I feel couldn't afford it then it would be expensive because you need the money for for other purposes so looking back on it what are you glad that you did it absolutely yes it was uh something that I'm uh wouldn't want to have missed basically wow is that um um it's time to bid romantic now but um I really had a great time and um it um I've been thinking of um looking into the possibilities of starting a European pinball factory um one of the reasons to go to jean was also to see how much work is involved in producing pinballs um and it helped me to to get an idea how much work is needed and everything probably that can go wrong will go wrong uh if you don't have the proper people to work with and I've seen that happen too um so I'm still thinking about the possibilities for a European pinball factory but now what would you make your own uh custom games you know your own games or would you like remake something no I um I think if it would ever get to that point um I think we would build new games new designs um um based on our own uh hardware system everything everything new right right okay well cool Jonathan I really appreciate the time and I appreciate you let me call you up and not talk about this stuff no you're very welcome um uh perhaps to explain to the people why I am are we calling in the first place um I heard a few um uh top cast from the past and big one was a recurrent item every time uh or in the podcast that I listen to so um tinshure so curious about that I figured okay I have one I can tell you some stories if you want to hear them uh it's great I appreciate the urine from yana and and I think you know I I think it was I think it's really good too because there are people who are over here are waiting very patiently to get theirs and you know the uh it was kind of a big tease that the people in Europe got theirs first it was almost like you know you wish you know that we had that led law too yeah okay but then there really would be a problem yeah I know I know no trust me you don't want that law um but um for me okay um I still follow the the the the big bang bar forum um I can understand people getting impatient because they are waiting so long trust me folks it's worth weight the wild right oh that's cool yeah I mean it's it's you know it's uh you know supposed to be available either sometimes this month or sometime next you know in in April or May you know I think uh you know we'll all have ours and then you know we'll be telling stories you know so um basically I am what happened over here um I don't want to spoil it for anybody over there but basically what happened over here was like there was a bunch of people who uh were saying the game would never be made um I couldn't tell anyone the game already arrived and I even had people asking so how's the big bang bar project coming on you know uh any news no you could say anything I wouldn't sit in your living room no actually I had it um at that time before um it was leaked that the games were delivered to Europe there was um I think it was uh two weeks in between and I had people over and I stored it in in in my bedroom um and people were in my living room which is next to my bedroom asking so how's big bang bar coming along and I'm like well it's pretty okay I'm very confident that the game people get here you know not not able to tell that it already arrived you know so who was the person that got the word out that the games were in fact in Europe um I don't know who it was I heard a story from Martin Weast um some uh there was one game uh going to Austria I believe I'm not sure uh anyways it was one of the German or Austrian games one of those people everybody got a notification that they were not supposed to tell anyone that the games had arrived and one of the guys just threw a party and one of his visitors basically put on a forum that the big bang bar games had arrived okay and it took two weeks uh it took two weeks before the word got out on the internet yes and actually it took two weeks after I picked up my game but it took a full week before the games were delivered to uh Germany I believe and from then it was just one week well okay yeah people can't keep quiet about it I guess um well I don't know I wasn't there I um I don't know what people motivated um because they tried to blame it on Martin Weast at the first place um I heard some stories about it I don't know how that happened okay so finally the word got out and uh I had contact with uh Kim and she said okay we're not gonna lie about this we're just gonna be upfront people okay this is uh we did it and this is why we did it and um as I expected um there was nothing but um how do you call it people understood the situation yeah I think people were we're just glad that you know it was a sign of things to come yeah absolutely and in a way I think it's even even is good for the project um because of the games being delivered okay imagine they were not the uh delivered and people waiting for their games um two years um you can't keep them happy with just a few photos every now and then you know so uh when the European games got delivered people really had something to look out for because the games were made they really played excellence still still do by the way and um everybody basically was um um uh who got their games were very very enthusiastic so that that really uh gave people something to look forward to and um I know it's taken another year basically um but what's a year in a lifetime anyway you know and besides that if you go on vacation the most fun usually is the fun you have up front because when you get there the food is not good or uh you have loud neighbors yeah the anticipation as they call it yeah okay exactly sorry for my English I'm trying to know no you do great with your English yes anticipation that's more fun than the actual deliver well okay well with Big Bang Bar my um uh I think I think that the people will miss their anticipation they will be happy that they get their games um but um they will miss it because in a way it is um looking out for something good you know that that's also a good feeling right um I understand sometimes people want to know more and I study communication so I can understand that very well um it's uh it will save a lot of trouble if people take the time to inform everybody um but I also understand how busy people are at Illinois Pimble to produce those games um so they're not uh uh rather than um uh check the forum every five minutes to see if someone he has a uh a question they rather build the games right right and I hope people can understand it no I I did they do I did they do all right Jon Hey thanks again I appreciate it I appreciate it I appreciate the update on the on the Big Bang Bar is great yeah okay and hey and good luck with uh the Dutch Pimble Association too it sounds like you're sounds like you're really moving wrong well with that you know that's great with us especially with those donation games man that's yeah well we still have a lot of work to do because there's over 50 games waiting to be restored you know right right and um if there's one thing that we don't like to do is some people say just put them on fire or chop them up or whatever you know and that's like no because I still have the feeling if I look at such an old game you know like like um even a honey which is not considered a very valuable game it still has a some sort of history in it you know sure sure so I um yeah I mean you got them I mean you you know like you said you got a lot of members you got you got time you know just take your time and you know get them done what you can get them done uh basically that's what we're doing and uh we appreciate all the help from the technicians that we get right and we're very very grateful to them as well because without them it would be even harder to get all the games working you know so um so I want to say a big thank you to to all those people involved in the project um also people involved in the in the Dutch Bimble Association because it's a small group of people making a lot of fun for a lot of other people possible again I'd like to thank Jonathan Joseph and for coming on to Topcast to talk into us today about the Big Bang Bar Project and uh and his Dutch Bimble Association in Devers thank you again Jonathan