Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Dirty Pool podcast. Uh this is episode 9, which is crazy cuz two days ago we did episode 8. Normally we don't have such backto-back ones, but uh this week is a special occasion. We have a new launch. We have a new pinball machine. and I am stoked to be joined by none other than Daniel Janson of Pinball Brothers and uh CEO and the uh I would say creative force behind Predator Pinball. Welcome. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. So man, oh man, I've got so much to dive into. So, Predator, I I love that uh your last couple of games, or at least it seems like that you guys have kind of dialed into the IPs of like 80 nostalgia action films, and I I don't know if that's something that you guys want to be kind of like known for in the way that Spooky is known for doing like horror pins. Um, but I love that you guys have kind of gone all in on the style for Predator. Can you can you talk a little bit about like what was the thought process behind acquiring the license and then diving into this? Yeah, but I think you I think you're right. Actually, I think this is uh what we're aiming to do. We really love the the 70s and 80s in in particular. So, u uh there might be more games coming in in the same kind of um sher if you like or hot take. I feel like that's a subtle plant right there. Yeah, we have some plans. Yes. Uh but uh when it comes to Predator in particular, I think uh it's not only because it's from the 80s and it's nostalgia. It's also obviously related to Alien and um and uh since we did Alien and we had a contract for Alien, it it felt like a natural step for us to to make Predator. We We see the game quite a lot as a sister game to to Alien to be honest. Yeah. For people that aren't familiar with the films, there are references to both franchises in a number of spots, including the alien skull on the Predator ship, among other things. Are there any Easter eggs that you've hidden on the playfield that kind of like homage to the Alien uh game? That could be that could be uh you have to look closely, I think. So, it's I mean, it's Oric Lawson who did the artwork. Uh we are really really happy with it for for Predator. is is just super awesome. And uh since he did it for Alien also, I think that's um even if it's a few years apart, they really sort of belong together, I think. Absolutely. So, I'm pulling up some of the uh playfield artwork from it as well. Uh I will say for people that aren't uh listening to this later, can we can we center you a little bit? My cropping on your video camera is putting you a little bit half out of the way. Although, it's cool cuz it looks like we're having a conversation with the Predator himself. Can you do the clicking sound? Can we Can we hear your best predator click? No, I can't. I can't. Here, I'll I'll try it then. Ah, it's a nice try. Yeah. Yeah, I I appreciate you saying that. I don't know if that was great, though. I should have brought our sound guy, Olaf Costas on. He is uh he can do them. So, that's he can do the sound effects. Well, that's fantastic. I would expect that from a sound person, right? So, so I have the Playfield artwork pulled up here. I love that you hybridized kind of like a uh the jungle theme but also kind of embraced a more kind of like vibrant color palette for it. Um when those kind of decisions filter down through the company, like how how does that go? Is your artist have free will? Are they just like, "Hey, like this is what I'm thinking." And you're like, "Um, okay, fine." Or what does what does it look like over at Pinball Brothers when you sit down and you're like designing a Playfield artwork? Uh it's a really good question. Um I have to think about it. I think it's uh I mean you always have to uh uh have some trust in your your uh the guy who is do or girl who is doing the artwork of course I mean they have to be be able to work uh uh quite freely I think otherwise if you have too many discussions and too many um details that you want to change I think it's it's going to be a compromise somehow but of course we have we have input we have input and we had sort of uh some guidelines and one of the guidelines actually was to not we because we I mean in one way Predator is a dark dark movie but but on the other hand it's in the jungle and it's not uh it's not that dark like Alien uh if you compare them so we uh we didn't want the playfield to be uh too dark uh basically so it's it's kind of nice when it's a bit vibrant we like the jungle quite green so yeah I I think that a lot of the 80s He's kind of captured that style of it being a serious but not serious. Like it's campy in a way that they like knew it was campy. I mean, you look at them freaking out and he's just like mowing a forest down with a minigun. Like no practicality to that whatsoever. And but it's so taking itself serious, but at the same time, it totally knows that it's not. And I mean, you know, even just looking at the Predator monster himself, it's both a a design that is is gory and scary, but also like completely not at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. It's I I think you're right. I think it's uh it's hard to say that the Predator is a comedy, but it's a it's kind of borderline to to uh some fun all the time, more or less. But it's it's a I think that is partly what makes the movie uh unique, I would say. Absolutely. Plus uh I think it was Alan Sylvester that did the music as well. I mean, this is like one of the most prolific composers of all time, and the the score is to me anyways very iconic in the same way. Kind of like Back to the Future has its uh motifs that are just as memorable. Um, yeah. So, it's and we have that in the in the game, of course. So, what is it like having just a huge pair of pinball balls? And I mean that that you guys have the confidence to produce a widebody game in a landscape where many companies are like, "No, I think you and Spooky are the only two companies that are willing to take on the kind of lineage of still producing widebody games." Um yeah, we um to us it was kind of um natural I would say because we one one of the aspects was actually back to Alien again that we really wanted it to be a sister game to Alien and that they should uh look nice together side by side and then we thought it it needs to be wide body but of course it's it was also a decision and this was maybe um more important We really wanted to put a lot of stuff in the game uh to make it uh the greatest game we could ever make. And And you get a little more space when you have a wide body to work with. Uh you can do some uh some some things with the layout that is um um yeah a little bit out of the ordinary I would say. So it was it was an early decision. It was a decision from the very beginning. uh and uh we haven't since then I don't think we have we have not thought about that we just uh just uh uh planned it that way and have have worked on it so filled it up with loads of stuff so sure what was the what was the motivation then behind making Alien a widebody I know that Alien was a a purchased it wasn't a pinball brothers original per se as in like the design was acquired by you guys and then you manufactured the game but that's not the case with uh Predator this one is even though it This is a sister game. This was designed in house. Is that correct? That is correct. Yes. Yes. So, uh, yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No. No. By the way, we're dealing with more delay than usual. If you don't know, Pinball Brothers is located in Sweden, which I will we will get into later, just cuz I think there's some interesting quirks with running a company that's overseas to a hobby that is generally purchased in the States. Um, and I do want to get into some of those those numbers. But before that, I do just want to continue talking about we you put a predator toy in here. Like with Alien, I feel like the design was a no-brainer, right? Like it had to have an alien in it, and it probably needed to eat the ball because pinball people love to complain if a if a mechanic doesn't eat a ball when there's a monster in it. I feel like we're talking about games like Jaws that got horribly panned for that which for the record uh Jaws would not have worked if the jaw if the shark ate the ball because the the shark itself is used to bash to initiate jackpots and stuff. It would have been so stop and go if that mechanic had to eat the ball every time that that was a thing. So for all those Jaws haters out there, I'm sorry. It just it serviced the function of the game. I digress. Back to back to Predator. So what what was the design mentality? You're like, "Oh [ __ ] we got to put a predator in here. How do we do that?" Um yeah, but I think that was also one of the first decisions that we really I mean the game the game is um designed around the Predator and the Predator itself is the sort of um is the is the main character for us in the movie of course. So we um we thought from the beginning it needs to be the centerpiece. So, it might be uh sound like a no-brainer, but uh um we had some discussions, but we we uh we thought that we were in agreement on that uh early on, I would say. And because in the movie, I mean, it's all about uh when they find out about the Predator, it's all about fighting it. And you have to fight the Predator in the game. That is that was sort of super clear to us. So, so it was in in that sense that part of the design was really really easy. So, we went from that there to to uh and we wanted him in the center also of the playfield for various reasons mainly because we wanted to have the uh a lot of shots uh available for the upper flipper to the right. So you can you can actually shoot the left orbit and you can shoot the scorpion ramp and you can shoot the inner loop that goes the nest area we call it that goes around the the predator. Um you can shoot that area from from left to right and surround him so so to speak. So, um, yeah, that I think that was an easy decision to to have a as as big a predator that we could fit basically. And we are really super happy with the with the sculpt itself, the model. We have a a very talented um um modeler uh named Marlin Eva. She she's from Sweden and she did the the Predator uh model and also the camp model. Yeah. Honestly, it looks so good. I thought it might have be like an official toy that you guys just purchased in bulk and then put into it, but this is an original made sculpt. Yes, very much very much so from from scratch. So, it's it's really made for for the game. And uh I I must say I'm I'm quite surprised uh how great it ended up in in the how detailed both the camp mold is and and the Predator toy in the game. Uh I I didn't thought the painting could be that uh detailed actually in a m mass-produced um game like this. So Sure. So definitely looks like hand painted. Whether it is or isn't, it looks like that it someone took the time to make it not look like a rush product. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. So, yeah. Uh, so Wolfman's asking, "Is it required to shake hands and say you son of a [ __ ] before each game?" I mean, I think that's a personal preference. Uh, I do like the the type of lighting you have in here. I imagine that wide bodies in general are a little harder for lighting just because the amount of playfield that is in the center of it in order to keep it lit in a way that doesn't uh you know just create a void of darkness in it. Uh seems really good. It's not like overly JJPI but at the same token it's not like overly dark like a like a stern. Um, when you when you were doing lighting placement on this, especially for a game that's horror themed and in a jungle, like is there any thought process behind that or or do you kind of just like when the white wood's done, you throw lights in and see see what the illumination looks like? Um, yeah, a little bit of both, I would say. But of course, we uh we did a lot of planning for for the lights um more this time than ever before, I think. Uh, and that was I think that is because we have so many distinct places in the game that needs to have um um great lighting. I mean we need great lighting for the for the main guy of course in the center. We need we wanted to have um some good lighting effects for the helicopter up to the left and we wanted to have uh great uh special lighting for the minigun of course um blasting in the left lower left corner and also the camp. So I I think uh we we um we have thought about lighting a lot lot more this time to be honest and we also had some great help from a technical point of view. We have a new um I tend to say we have a new partnership but it's not really that new because uh we have already worked with Fast Pinball Aaron and and the guys uh um at Fast Pinball they um have provided the boards the electronics for Funhouse since we are doing the remakes also at Europeinball uh Corp. So we have gotten to know them and uh we decided for this game to actually uh we saw a lot of benefits to actually use uh their fast system uh in this game and that gave us uh uh quite quite a lot of new opportunities when it comes to lighting in the game. So that that is one reason why there's a lot of more lights. So, I've heard the fast system al like Carl has been critical of of older remakes, uh, including the CGC stuff that the latency in the flippers is a problem, but the old boards at CGC were made off off Raspberry Pi, I believe. And the fast system I've heard nothing but positive things about. I think Barrels of Fun uses the fast system in their uh in their systems as well. And it's just designed around, you know, emulating uh kind of the real feel of the original valley Williams type of games without having, you know, any of the limitations of it being older boards and MOSFETs that could blow up and stuff. Um, yeah. I love that. I have another question regarding that, but I just I want a side tangent. I love that to me the like lower third in between like the slingshots. Get out of here camera. Don't look at Lord of the Rings. uh to have an iconic kind of playfield graphic in the center that is basically kind of like cuz you're staring right at the flippers the whole time. And I think a lot of games uh have memories based around the art package right there. The three skull setup, the artwork in between the flippers here is iconic. I think that Predator will be immediately recognized as a, you know, pinball machine for quite a while based on that little section of Playfield. Um just shout out to your artist personally. I think that's such a great great little like set. It's cool looking. I I totally agree. And that was actually one of the first parts of the playfield that Oric came up with. Um actually he did a um very quick draft of the of the map in the center of the of the playfield, but it was nothing like how it looks today. And uh that that um wasn't uh wasn't um to be honest I can say that now that wasn't super great. I think it was just a a test or something. Uh and then right after that he came up with this uh this part of the playfield and everybody just went wow. So that we are really super happy about it. So I I totally totally agree. There's There's a wow moment for it for sure. Uh there's a few chat questions I want to field real quick too. Uh Joe the Dragon's asking, "Does it have an adult mode?" I'm assuming for making the call outs more profanity driven and or gore driven uh as opposed to setting it to more of a family mode. Is there is there two modes for the game or no? It currently it's not actually. Uh but uh we are I know that question is uh is um uh on the table. Uh so we have actually been um I understand fully that uh that kind of setting I guess should be there and it I I guess it will be in the end. But from um we have had the sort of luxury also to um um get no restrictions when it comes to um you using um the um all the all the the when it comes to the policies I would say from from Disney they they are fine that we are using all the scenes with the blood and gore and so on the game is sort of a rated so that is that is um that is the situation we don't need to do that. But yeah, I mean, I don't think people are expecting a family game from Predator. It's not like you would take your seven-year-old to go see Predator in the movie theater. So, but you know, pinball machines are games. Still, it could it could it could make sense anyway that you that you could do that. So, yeah. You say you have all the IP assets for blood and gore and stuff like that, but I know that there's been some mixed trepidation in terms of using Arnold Schwarzenegger and his Schwarzenegger callouts. from what I read that you have the permission to use any of the wide there's a lot more Arnold in this game than people expected after hearing that um based on the fact that there's you can use wide angle shots and and whatnot. Is there any movement I think you mentioned in a previous interview that there could be a software update that would add more Arnold to it if the Disney licensing rights are resolved? Is that is there a future that you can speak to on that? Yeah, I can speak to that, but I I honestly don't know uh if that's going to happen or not. we uh it's definitely possible that it's possible but I must I must actually add something that has come to my um or our attention in today or in the last hours that there actually is a gameplay video uh out there which uh which is um not put out there by us. um is actually I know Nap Nap posted I think it was Cornet Taker there was some distributor that had posted a short video of it which was a shame because they only like the audio in it is is not very good and I you know it's not like you can control them the quality that someone puts out for an unapproved unreleased video. Exactly. And I just want to stress that that this video is a is for internal use and it was like uh months ago this video was recorded. So, uh, it it wasn't meant to be, uh, out there. And somebody apparently has broken their NDA here. So, it's, uh, I just want to stress that, uh, there will be proper gameplay videos coming out. Uh, I mean, if anybody watching that video thinks that your game has large sections of silence and no sound effects in it, is living in a dream world, that that would ever get a release. So, obviously, that is not the final iteration of the game. But, I understand what you're saying. people love to to cause a ruckus right now in the pinball community. Let's touch base on that because you and I talked about that a little bit right at the beginning of the interview. Uh I don't generally like talking about this person a whole lot on my podcast, but Caneda was really critical of the launch of the Predator like assets and whatnot. And uh I think there's some criticism to the fact that there were like an unnecessary amount of teasers released. Again, that's like a personal preference thing, but his criticism isn't helpful to the community at large. And smaller pinball companies need to be supported instead of criticized because it's not a guaranteed business model. Like if this game doesn't do well, like that's a problem for you as a business, I would say. Yeah, true. Definitely. So, I mean, we have no problem being criticized and I think everybody should should tell us what they think isn't what they don't think is good. I mean we can have different opinions on some things and I mean not everything we have done or or do is obviously perfect but but uh I think sometimes it's really um goes beyond that and I think that's that's not helpful of course. So one of your first videos you posted how the flipper mechanics have been upgraded. I mean, you didn't have any uh fear identifying that there was a criticism on a past game, that you guys did something to improve the current game, and then feature it as a, you know, teaser trailer for the release of the new game. I think that's both honest, smart. I mean, like, how can that be criticized in a negative aspect when a company is is agreeing with the community at large and and integrating their feedback? Yeah, you you tell me. I I don't I don't know to be honest. uh we we are I mean all we try to do is to make uh great games and uh we uh try to improve uh step by step all the time and I'm I'm absolutely certain that all the other manufacturers are doing the same thing and it's really really tough to to develop pinball machines because there are so many parts there are so many uh things in it that needs to work perfectly uh or you will experience uh the game as um not great obviously when you play it. So, so I I don't I definitely don't want to sound like we should be um um sort of have some kind of pity for that because we have stepped into this with open eyes that we want to make pinball machines. We We sort of like the idea of it being challenging, of course. So, we like to challenge ourselves, but um um yeah, it's it's just I I find the negativity sometimes a little bit overwhelming. Not Not for us in in particular, but in in general. I think this is a hobby that people have decided to take part in uh because of passion. I guess everybody has has some passion for pinball. otherwise I don't know what they are doing in this in this hobby or this community. So uh it it feels strange and a bit I I get sad when I think about that that it's uh sometimes it's really um too much to be honest. Sure. I think that the the internet at large loves to live behind the shield of the monitor and that any criticism they make they can be critical in a way that's not constructive. And I think that at least something that I try to do is that when I am talking about games that have issues or things that are wrong with them, either if it's design-wise or whatever art packet or something that to give a framework of how it can be improved is really important. Saying that somebody is just doing a shitty job is not constructive and it the people that are behind those projects have feelings and it it doesn't motivate people to do a better product. I'm sure your team doesn't want to go online excited that the Pinball Brothers released their new Predator machine and read a bunch of stuff about how their work is is poop and that they did a dumb thing. Like, who the hell likes that? No, No, no. Nobody likes that. And And I don't think the guys saying that would would like to have that in their faces if they did something. So, uh it's just um I but but I do understand there is frustration because um uh there's a lot of things going on actually that that it's really hard I understand that now it's really hard to see those things uh and understand why those things are if if we look at uh the launch for instance if we take that as a as as an example uh is really really hard to work with uh big licenses especially if you're not super super huge uh business yourself. And um there are so many different types of licensing when it comes to uh it's it's not just getting approval for your product and what's in the product, but you but there's another sort of completely different layer to to get approval for advertising it. Just because you are have the rights to use stuff in your game and it looks a certain way, that doesn't mean that you are allowed to actually post that online. And that is something that uh um it it was confusing for me in the beginning also, but but there are many many layers. This was just one example. So I what I mean is that I I fully understand that it can be confusing and people can can really have a hard time to to realize why did they do this and why did they do that they are completely stupid they don't understand anything but there are reasons there are always some reason everybody's an expert even though they don't know anything about what goes on behind the scenes I mean the last thing you want to do is burn a bridge with a license or two which is going to cut you off from whatever teen number of licenses that they may own that you would have a relationship ship with and could potentially use for a future game. Would did you is the Predator license uh acquired by the same group and whatever creative control as Alien or did you work with a different IP? No, it's it's the same. Yeah. Yeah. So, this is a good example. I mean, if you did something on Alien that burned a bridge with that licenser, then there wouldn't be a Predator game. No. Exactly. Exactly. So, um there's a whole slew of important uh chat questions. One thing obviously we do here they is we allow chat to to involve themselves. And there's a bunch of people that are excited about your game that have legit questions. It's It's a miracle. Let's fire them off. Dracula. Dracula wants to know what's inside the trophy merch package and the jungle kit. What What is included in both of those? And he also wants you to know that he ordered the the trophy kit to go with their LV alien and how excited they are. That's great to hear. Uh the the content of the trophy package is um you you get a shaker motor and uh um you also get a yucha glass on the on the game which means nonreflective. Uh I wish it was totally invisible like Predator himself, but it it's not. But it's it's still non-reflective. So, and then you have the the great looking um uh green uh trim, metal trim on the game. And you also get uh um quite a new uh backbox lighting. Uh it's 16 RGB uh individually controlled RGB LEDs on the back of the uh backbox. uh that ambient lighting so yeah it enhances the the light show quite a lot when you when you play certain modes and and so on. Uh and then um you also get uh some special treatment in in the form of um really nice uh wooden ammo box with some uh special content. Uh Uh and one thing is uh actually uh a limited it is limited exclusive poster one of the ones I have behind me here. So um very cool and some some other uh interesting stuff predator related predator related mystery items. Uh I do want to give a quick shout out to Michael. Thank you so much for the raid my dude. Uh welcome all nine of you to what we are discussing. If you aren't familiar with who I'm talking to, this is Daniel Janson, CEO of Pinball Brothers, and we're talking about Predator, obviously. Look, there's a bunch of excellent uh neon artwork, Predators behind you. So, that's obviously what we're talking about. Uh Sum wants to know, do you have an expected build schedule for games shipping to Europe and the US? Yes. Uh we do. We uh the first games, we are building games as we speak now. we have started to uh produce the game. Um uh the sort of foundation of the game, I mean cabinets and stuff, things that we we are still we are obviously still in the in the finalization uh phase, you could say uh with approvals and stuff. So uh but we we um this the plan is to start shipping the first games mid August. And why uh why it that is a few weeks or a number of weeks uh ahead from now is basically because we are waiting we know that there is a long longer lead time for some a few of the parts uh mainly the molded parts I would say uh the the predator and um and the um camp mold for sure. Uh so so that is the situation when it comes to um uh the shipping schedule between Europe and uh the US and the rest of the world. Uh it's it's still sort of being um being uh planned because one thing is obviously a big problem actually is is that we don't really know about the tariff situation of course. So we have that pause uh coming to an end I think um is it the 9th of July or something like that. So we don't really know what happens after that. So we and we what we uh what we are thinking is that we should be flexible here because uh if the tariffs would be uh super high for some for some reason uh after the 9th maybe people in the US would like to sort of um wait a bit for their games or or we don't we don't really know. So we are we are playing a little bit with flexibility here. Some companies have taken one stance on one side and some have taken on some on the other. Do you believe that it is the consumer's responsibility to take the cost of the tariffs when purchasing a a product that is, you know, 10 $11,000? It's a really good question. Of course, of course it isn't. Uh I I think the consumer is sort of uh are suffering uh the consumers are obviously suffering from from all taxes uh kind of taxes. So uh what we are trying to do is to um work with the situation that is I mean we uh we we have tried to uh uh put it put a price on this game that is as low as we possibly can actually because we we know that and I know that might sound weird because it's a lot of money for a game. I know that and and uh but we have put we have really packed this one. It's really a fully packed wide body game. So it it cost a lot of money to to produce it basically. So um but that is one thing and then we are also discussing with our distributors and we have a we have uh ideas and we have a strategy for if the tariffs would come up from the level they are on now 10%. We have we are we we will um try our best to help the distributors to to I saw that flipping out had posted that there is a cap on the tariffs that they are willing to charge in addition to the shipping fees. I'm assuming this is partly what you're talking about. Exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, what the bottom line, I guess, is that uh both us and the distributors are trying our best to to uh keep the the price um down basically. But in the end of the day, if the tariffs are are on a really high level, it's it's impossible more or less. I mean, it can't be um we we can't do magic. So, no, for sure. I mean, this is this is what would be considered a lose-lose situation for the for both parties because it's not like you're trying to take advantage of the customer. They're not responsible for the tariffs going up, but neither are you. Yet, as a business, you're still in the position of controlling what the ultimate cost is for the consumer to acquire your product. So, I don't envy your position whatsoever because if like you said, if the cost is too much, I mean, look, shipping a game overseas with the additional $400, $500 or or whatnot that the shipping I don't want to put a price number on that. I forget what the flipping out said. Plus, the tariffs puts your game at the cost of what a lot of LE values are from local manufacturers. That's That's a scary situation. I I mean what what confidence can you give the consumer that that money is in the best possible interest that that you can for the product that they're getting? Yeah. And And uh I think um uh I think one one of the hardest parts is is to um plan for something that you don't know. That is even harder. I mean you if we knew that this is the situation, this is what what we are have to work with then it would be easier to come up with something and and also be uh to inform everybody this is how it works. This is this is but but right now we are just trying to uh to to help distributors a bit and uh and um uh we just crossing our fingers that uh it will work out. Basically, I think transparency is really important. When When July 9th rolls around, will Pinball Brothers send out some sort of notification with their plan on what how they're going to handle tariffs to the consumers that may be interested in their products. Uh we have we haven't decided that we should send any sort of public information at that date, but uh we we first we have to see what uh what happens that date, I think uh and then we make a decision. But of course we want to inform um be as transparent as we can basically with everything I would say. So yeah. Uh totally Marshall. For what it's worth, I'm very excited for your game. I realize that we're being a little critical right now, but I think that you know whether you're a large company or a small company that being honest with the consumer especially when it comes to large amounts of money that they're spending is important. I mean it doesn't you can be transparent and then they can make their decision. It's not uh it's not a good or bad thing. I mean, transparency, I guess, is only good. Marshall Riggs is asking, he's saying that you should have done gameplay. Dude, of course, there's going to be gameplay. Like, obviously, this game wants to be shown off. It's not that there's a reason. Is there a time that we can expect kind of an official gameplay video drop? Um, yeah, you should have gameplay in um in a few days, I would say. That is that is the idea. We have a weird habit in in Sweden this week actually. So it was kind of a a bit of a lousy decision to launch the game uh right before uh Midsummer Afton which is Midsummer's Eve in English sort of we have a bank holiday where everybody are really off this uh tomorrow. So we have a always good to do a big release for a product during a holiday, right? But I mean to be fair, you know, a large what percentage of your of your market sales are uh in the states though? I mean like you are catering to a hobby that is predominantly I'm not saying America is I'm British by the way even though I live in America but the the large volume of pinball originates or at least is consumed by the United States. what what percentage of your sales generally are there versus European sales? Uh yeah, I mean you're right. It is a US uh thing obviously. Uh so I but it it varies a little bit for us. Uh maybe it does for the others as well. I don't know. But But um um for ABBA for instance, we had a lot of more lot of sales uh obviously outside US. Uh for Predator, I would expect it to be like something like um 7030 for US versus uh the rest of the world. Um and I guess Alien was something similar. So uh so yeah. Yeah, it's a it's kind of a in one way kind of a stupid idea to to uh manufacture pinball machines outside the US. Well, I mean I don't know. Spain and Italy are obviously huge consumers of pinball as well. And you know, Euro Pinball Corp, the parent, your parent company, and also Pretty Gaming are both under that umbrella, and also located in Italy. I mean, I think that that puts a pretty strong hub of pinball located in the center of Europe. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I I am joking a bit, but but uh of course the it's undoubtly so that the big big part of the pinball total pinball market is in the US. that is undeniable. So, but of course it's it is a lot of bimbo machines in in Europe and also in Australia I think and to some to some extent in other places also I think um uh South America and the Middle East and and so on. So yeah uh our Den one of our Denmark fans is asking is there going to be a retro kit for previous pinball brother games for the new flipper technology? Um, never say never. I uh I I don't I can't really say right now, but uh it's a good question and uh and uh we can definitely look into u um techn technical things onboards I would say. Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, I realize this feels like like a hot seat interview at this point, but I did we have one more thing that I had talked about that I would put it on the critical level of current events and it's AI. You and I talked about this in our little pre-hat um that currently Jersey Jack is is being criticized in my opinion rightly so. Some people may not care about this, but that their playfield has uh AI artwork on it and modified AI assets. Um, personally I don't think there's anything wrong with scaling up stuff using AI algorithms just because sometimes you cannot get assets that are of a resolution that's high enough for print, but using AI to design elements where you could clearly have a human do it on a product that you're you're doing for paying artists to make is is strange to me. Does Pinball Brothers have any AI artwork on its playfield? Uh, no. And we never had. So we have we haven't worked with AI uh at all except for in uh in um advertising and uh so we have we work with agencies and they have um they uh seem to love working with AI at some some it helps them cut costs. Of course they would love that. It It does. And And to be fair, uh Pinball is isn't the biggest um business and we have um uh obviously limited resources like everybody. So uh um um we we try to put as much of our budget into the games that we design and build. So um yeah. Cool. Uh thank you for answering that. I had felt that many companies would just shy away from that and I appreciate Pinball Brothers for being super transparent with a lot of this. I think that uh again you and I talked about how important it is supporting smaller pinball companies and that if people want more pinball they need to support all the pinball companies instead of just being relentlessly critical in a way that's not helpful. Um it sounds to me you guys made a game that you loved and it's now available for people. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Was that a question? It's an observation, but I would love to hear your opinions on it. What's your favorite part of Predator the game? Yeah, I mean I mean uh I guess everybody say this, but we have we have literally worked day and night for for many many months and and uh we everybody in the development team really love uh Predator. I mean that is that is um uh that is obviously the biggest reason why we made the game at all. So um we uh there's I mean regardless if people will like the game in the end or it's going to be u considered that good or that good. We have done everything we can to make this as good as possible. We want to buy this game ourselves or play this game I would say. So, uh um uh the best part of the game is really hard to say. Uh but I think um I think I think the sort of composition maybe that is a really weird answer, but we really like the way it the the composition of the game uh came out with all the stuff in it. I mean, it's it's kind of it's really crowded because you have the the quite huge camp mold. You have the minigun and that ramp and you have uh the the predator which is quite also takes some quite some space but still you have quite an open play field. So, so we really like that that part of the of the layout that not that part that um result of the of the how the layout came came out basically. Uh but but um should I should I say something uh in particular for me personally I think I really like one very important thing obviously is the fights with the predator itself. So we have we have um we will continue to to um uh improve that for a long long time ahead. Uh when you fight the Predator, you should really feel like you are fighting it. I mean, he's um he's making all his uh uh typical Predator sounds and we have a great light show as we talked about before with lights and um so that part I think is uh very cinematic and I think that's um that that's a good part of the game. But you there are other moments also and other other parts. I I love the minigun and how that's uh turned out and so on. I see the mod maker community is already diving into it too. I saw somebody's producing kind of like an all metal like minigun. I mean, the game hasn't even been released yet. It's amazing. It's actually in metal. I would say it looks like black plastic, but it is metal. So Oh, your your actual mechanism is metal as well. That's very cool. Yeah, but they can make a modu for sure. We don't mind about that. But um um I want to say something else. Yeah, one one thing that we really try to capture in this game is the feeling of uh the movie when it comes to the contrasts. I mean there are quite large parts of the movie where where they walk around everything is quite silent and and eerie uh and and we don't the pimple the game isn't uh silent completely silent of course not but we tried to sort of capture that feeling of uh a little bit of on and off. So, and I think that is one part that people love about Alien also that it's a is a good um feeling in the game that you are stepping into that world and that is that is the aim for this game also. You when you push the start button you should feel like you are uh in the jungle and uh and things are a bit scary and and uh then uh at various moments of course the hell breaks loose just like in the in the movie. So, so that is uh and sound package of Alien like really sucks you into the game and I think that a lot of people are hoping and expecting kind of the same thing from Predator. Yeah, that's the idea. Um, from the rule set, it sounds like there's just a lot of mode stacking and kind of acquiring characters in it. It sounds like the the core rule set of this game is is going to be quite interesting. Can you talk a little bit about the person involved in that and what we're potentially looking forward to in terms of modes and whatnot? Yeah, I mean with everything we do, we do it uh uh in collaboration. So we are working in teams and so on. But I I'm actually been sort of responsible for the for the rules and um that part of the game and me me and Andreas Mellström has been uh we are the main guys behind behind the rule set. So um uh yeah we we want of course you need to have um quite extensive rules but you also need to you can't make Predator too complicated because Predator isn't about being complicated. It's is a sort of horror film or I'm sorry the action film itself is very straightforward you know fight the monster and we think it's about uh uh it should be a great experience playing the game mainly but but that said we obviously need to have great rules in the game also it's no denying about that. So there is actually quite a lot of strategy in in the game. You You um you can collect the crew members, the soldiers and Anna the hostage uh in the game and that uh you depending on how many crew members you bring into modes, you you uh you can score better from from that. Uh but they also have to survive the modes to give you that benefit. Does that increase jackpot value? I imagine if your characters that you bring into modes actually make it through it. Yeah, exactly. And the mode, you can say the mode bonus is is affected by it. So also, but you also definitely need to bring uh your crew uh into the fights with the predator because uh that that is um that is deciding uh how um I mean when you meet the predator, he actually tries to kill your crew, your crew. And uh he will, if you don't hit him, he will kill your crew, take them out one by one. Uh basically, and you have to to drive him away, fight him off. uh and then you can uh go into search mode where you have to find him again and then you can revive your crew members. So that is a a bit of a So if you if you don't if you just bring one crew member into the fight, you you uh you have a very slim chance of of actually um play that uh fight with him for for a longer time. Sure. So, uh, that's a great way of kind of diluting the story into like a gamified component that works for a pinball machine instead of trying to like make a story out of it. It's just like what's the core like feedback loop of dealing with the predator. It's finding it, having it not kill my guys, and then fighting it off. So, I I think that's a really smart way of approaching that. Yeah, it's a I mean, that is the core of the movie, I guess. So, it's a yeah, it was kind kind of a no-brainer in one way, but yeah, uh it also has to be fun to play it uh in in the game, and we it it's kind of uh works great because it's it's becomes a bit stressful when he sets sets sight on on the crew member, you know, who he will take out in the in certain uh number of We have a a mountain of chat questions. Let me let me get through. I want to ask some of these because they're really good. Uh, Tenacious Explosive actually has a regular question now that he's done getting mad about AI and screaming like a seven-year-old, which I already have one, so I don't mind anything you say, including my gray hair. My hair is receding, too, if you want to make fun of that. The uh thing about your future IPs, you had sneaked in here. Let's make a cool mohawk for him. You had said that you were you have other IPs that are potentially coming from uh 80s stuff because you love doing like 80s style franchises now. Do we have any idea of doing kind of horror related ones? He's asking with, you know, cuz Spooky has already dove into kind of like the Evil Dead stuff and the horror content in general. Are you going to consume and produce more IPs that are in that kind of like 80s action film like ecosystem? uh without saying too much I and and to be honest um we have plans for uh a couple of years ahead but we uh we are looking into long more long-term plans so I I can't say uh um I don't know that much but I know some things and uh without saying too much I uh I would say that this is the direction that we think we we think we are good at that uh actually and uh Alien is a really fun game. So, So, uh, so it's fair to say that, uh, we are looking in that direction. That is the sort of bottom line, I guess. But horror, not so much. I don't think that, um, it could happen. It could happen, but I I don't think that that is uh I think that is closer to uh obviously closer to uh Spooky's DNA. Fair. And you aren't Spooky. You're pinball brothers doing their own thing. Uh, Sum says that is there any reason that you went with fast hardware? you kind of touched base a little bit on this. He says he's using it for his homebrew and he's excited uh about getting into that ecosystem. Is there a reason that you went with them? You You said you had a kind of a partnership with them because they're inside of the the ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah. We We uh it's inside the funhouse uh remake and um so it was kind of we had a we have worked with them for quite a while. So it was kind of a natural development I would say. We really like the system and we really like the guys at at fast Aaron and and Dave and Eli and I mean they are amazing. They are really devoted to uh making u great stuff I would say. So it's a it's a pleasure working with them and I also think that uh the things they make are I mean it's obviously great. So, um I mean there's there's a lot of major or of the smaller pinball manufacturers that are adopting that platform. Like they wouldn't be integrating it into their systems if it didn't work great, right? No, not exactly. And from our perspective, they're also I mean it's just really a win-winwin situation, I think, because we uh is is a lot lot easier or I can turn it around, I can put it that way. is really stupid and quite hard honestly long term to to sort of work with two different systems. It doesn't really make sense to I got a rapid fire uh three questions for you. I It's not going to be the Raven thing. I promise this time. Yes or no? Ready? Yeah. Is there going to be some sort of Predator vision in the game? Yes. Are there any Carl Carl Weathers Easter eggs hidden in the game? Could be. I said yes or no. That's a maybe. Yeah, that's a maybe. Yuck. All right. Is fighting the P is fighting the Predator the wizard mode? Yes. Is there going to be a topper? Maybe. That's two and a yes or no. What is You're not understanding the the whole point of the exercise here. I I'm from Sweden. We always are sort of neutral and in the middle of everything. So, uh, you have to bear with me. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Just for that, we're going to ask a different set of three questions. Uh, since you are obviously involved with one of the most important companies doing remakes for the pinball community, uh, which of these three games do you think deserves to have the remake made for it to bring it to the modern age? Raven. Um I I'm not sure uh actually but I can tell you one thing and that is our uh mechanical um engineer Peter Dolman who came up with the uh project name Raven for this project. He uh would certainly love to uh do a remake for uh do do Raven as a remake. That That that's that I'm sure of. He named his product after such an iconic game as Raven. Yeah. Uh it might happen. It might happen. We don't know. We can only live in a world where we hope we hope that that's the case. Yeah. Um, so I know that uh Joe the Dragon is here. Joe the Dragon is not only a mod for my channel, but also someone who's very passionate about competition modes in pinball. Does your game have a competition mode? Is it designed around competition play? Did that come into the design philosophy for it at all? Um, please don't say maybe again. Get out of here with that. No, No, no. I will not say maybe. We We will have a competition mode. Yes. Uh in the game. But uh the question uh if um even if we would love to um see people uh compete on this game, I think uh if I have to answer, I think uh uh the real answer is that we have we have the have slightly more focus on the uh experience when you play the game that it should be really be that you are you are experiencing um predator stepping into that world and uh but but competition is important also and we are interested in that. We are competing u locally and in and so on. So it's uh it's not that we are um uh not interested in that but it's it's uh you can only have um a certain uh focus when you when you develop a game. Sure. So kind of piggy back piggybacking on that. So, you know, the recent last 20 years or so, the home collector market is easily out acquired games than the operator market. Is your game, was it designed around one or the other? Like, did you guys do kind of like heavy testing on mechanics to make sure that there's no failures? I mean, I know that that's part of the pinball process to begin with, but would you say that this game is more of a home game or is it more of an on location game or is that irrelevant in your design philosophy? Um I think uh it is relevant but uh I I mean um since we took the decision to pack this game uh as we did with loads of stuff I guess that is in one sense it doesn't mean that we are aiming for public locations u and so on but we really hope that the game will be uh put on location and played there because when it comes comes to uh stability and reliability. I mean that is one thing why we are partnering with with uh fast the guys and we are we are making improvements in every area. So uh but but if I should the bottom line I guess is that we are uh we are I I guess it's slightly more for home use basically. Okay. um now that the game is released, so to speak, what is what is the best place that people can either acquire the game if they're interested in purchasing it? Is there a plan for locations that are going to have it available so people can experience it and make the decision for themselves? Like what's the what's the forecast for the next like I don't know month or so in terms of people that want to get their hands on a game? Yeah, but I mean the the we have been uh not so good at that I think before. But uh we this time we will really try to make sure that we can uh spread the game out to so as many people as possible can can uh see the game and play the game. So that's definitely in the in the strategy. Yes. Okay. Uh fantastic. I I'm checking my notes now. I think that's really all the stuff that I have about Predator. Um, is there anything that you'd love to contribute or pop pop in here that's going on at Pinball Brothers that you want people to to know about or that that you have coming up that they want to I mean, obviously Predator, get you a Predator. But, uh, yeah, if you have anything that you'd love to plug, go for it. Uh, yeah, I really think that, uh, I mean, first of all, we appreciate all the all the nice words that we have received so far. people seem to um apart from some obviously that we talked about before, but most people seem to like what they see and I really hope that everybody can um get to play the game as soon as possible because uh if you are a Predator fan, I think this is the closest you can get to to that jungle actually. So, um, uh, and you can find the game, uh, if you go to our website, pinballs.com, you have all the distributors on there, and, uh, you can also get the game from pbusassales.com. So, um, I'm pulling up your distributor list on the website right now. There you go. Kind of. Um, except that it won't scroll down enough. Anyways, you know how to use a website. There's some of them. Uh, Angry Alpaca, we already covered that topic talking about tariffs. Uh, just to sum it really quickly that they're working with the distributors to try to find a balanced cost that isn't going to cause any problem with the consumer, but at the same token helps to take care of the shipping cost because the tariffs aren't something that they can control. Uh, Joe the Dragon's asking, "Expo, are you guys I'm assuming you're talking about Pinball Expo in Chicago. Are you planning on being there with uh Predator? Uh without having made any sort of firm plans, I would say yes. I mean, the Predator should be uh at uh Expo, that's for sure. Okay. Joe's saying, "Are games going to have online updates and I guess better updates?" I don't know if this is directed at ABBA or Alien. I'm not familiar with it, but where the two to three updates need to be in to installed in consecutive order in order to get to a playable build or what is is there a is the process for updating the game changed? Yes, we it should be much easier. We definitely hear you. We uh there has been too many um updates and uh it's also h hasn't it hasn't been clear enough. So I apologize for that really. We are looking into making this um these updates for for onwards for all games I would say uh a lot easier um and quicker. Uh Wolfman's asking why on Tilt is not on the North American distributor list. They're the way that they handle uh game distribution is a little unique. Um but it does sound like on Tilt is getting one. I'm excited about that. That means I will be playing it at some point. Um which is great. I'm looking forward to that. Uh, Tenacious Explosivo wants uh wants you to start doing some stuff in Dallas. Uh, which I guess is an AP doing contract manufacturing now. Any interest in having American Pinball make your games in America? I think um anything is possible. I I mean manufacturing in the US in general. um we um but but for the moment there are no plans on on that. Uh so it's quite a big uh would be quite a big step for a company like us I think. All right. Well, thank you so much for uh hopping on early morning and I'm sure you were tired from the litany of interviews that you've had to do on this topic. This game looks awesome. I'm really excited to play it. I think that as we talked earlier that every pinball person that was trying to make a game is trying to make the best possible game and uh you know I at least speak for some sort of majority of some pinball community that uh I can't wait to get my hands on it. Thank you again Daniel for taking the time to hop on with us and talk about this game. Um, if you are watching this and you like what you see, consider supporting the smaller pinball companies to make sure that the pinball market still has competition and that companies like Pinball Brothers can make future ' 80s action title games like they need that more of us need. And Raven remakes, please do not consider that. Don't cut that off the list. All right. No, No, we shouldn't. We keep it on the list. I promise. Amazing. Amazing. Uh, all right. Then I'm going to, as we do here, we're going to go find someone to raid. Uh, and we're going to we're going to do the flow dance in the background. Uh, Daniel, hold around for just a second after the interview just so I can say thanks. I forgot to mention that in our previous uh talk. And uh yeah, thank you everybody for watching. If you're listening to this on VOD later on, we've got tons of podcasts up talking about all sorts of parts of the pinball community. We just did one with, speaking of Texas, we just did one with What's Brewing, which is a pinball arcade in San Antonio that is also a coffee roastery. Interesting. What a what a mashup. Um, is there any place that people, if people do have questions that they want to reach out to you about or uh if there's any way that they want to contact Pinball Brothers about something, is there an avenue of contact that is appropriate for that? Uh, yes, I think you can uh message us on our Facebook page or you can always send an email to info@pimblebros.com. I forgot I do have one other question. How many Daniels work at your company? Too many. No, I feel like every time I talk to somebody else there, it's a new Daniel. Yeah, I guess it's a quite common name in uh in Sweden and I think it's even quite common in Italy. So, and we have a lot of Andreas and Andrea also. So, it's a it's a total confusion every day. So, do you do you do you have nicknames? Do you use last letter abbreviations? It's like how do you define the different Daniels? Yeah, we use the last name often. So, there you go. That's the easy way out. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, all right. Thank you again, everybody. Uh, I'm going to flip it over to BRB. Please hang out and let's go raid someone who's doing some pinball stuff. Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.