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DPP #116 "Rumors, Black Knights, and wild speculation!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·48m 3s·analyzed·Apr 14, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Stern reruns BKSOR; Don theorizes on accessory pricing strategy and upcoming game pipeline.

Summary

Don discusses Black Knight Sword of Rage's unexpected secondary market success and Stern's rerun announcement, theorizes about Stern's accessory delay strategy as demand-building, speculates on upcoming games including possible Muppets at JJP and John Wick at Stern, and reflects on industry timing and production planning.

Key Claims

  • Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro machines are scarce on the secondary market despite initial poor sales; Stern announced a rerun for June release

    high confidence · Don observed near-zero BKSOR Pro listings on Pinside, eventually acquiring one through a contact. Stern has officially announced a rerun production for June.

  • Stern delays accessory releases (toppers, shooter rods, armor kits) by 12+ months to amortize costs and maintain sales momentum rather than releasing them at launch

    high confidence · Don posits this is deliberate strategy: if all accessories released at launch with $13k LE + $1500 topper + $250 rod + $275 armor = $15k total would discourage purchases. Spacing releases over a year builds demand while customers already own the base machine.

  • John Borg had a game designed (possibly Indiana Jones) whose license window lapsed, forcing a re-theme to another IP

    medium confidence · Don heard this as rumor from 'alcoholic whispers of MGC'; no confirmation. Cites historical precedent (Police Force was Batman, Gladiators was Zelda).

  • Stern is planning a summer 2024 cornerstone announcement (possibly John Wick or another title) following Jaws production run completion

    medium confidence · Don speculates based on production cadence: Jaws (January), next game announcement late April/May, production June, ready for August-October window.

  • Jersey Jack Pinball is developing a Muppets game (exact status and timeline unknown)

    low confidence · Don heard 'whispers' about Muppets at MGC from unknown sources; no concrete information, no whitewood sighting, speculative.

  • Stern reduced from three cornerstones per year to two, is now rebuilding production capacity in larger facility

    medium confidence · Don states this as fact based on industry observation; aligns with known Stern production changes.

  • Foo Fighters LE topper costs $2,000 and is largely a reskin of the R2-D2 topper design

    high confidence · Don cites this as example of high accessory pricing; criticizes it as overpriced for the technology level.

Notable Quotes

  • “But try to find a black knight sword or rage pro on pin side you won't be able to find one i know because i've been looking”

    Don @ early in episode — Personal market observation that drives the main narrative about BKSOR scarcity and Stern's decision to rerun.

  • “This game is a whole package. Y'all naysayers keep naysaying, and I'm going to keep playing this damn game, and I'm not looking forward to getting rid of it at all now.”

    Don @ mid-episode — Expresses Don's changed opinion on BKSOR; validates his earlier prediction that the game would become desirable.

  • “That's how they got you. They got you the tune of $2,000 for that topper, $275 or $225 for the shooter rod, $250 for the side armor. And you're like, you know what? YOLO.”

    Don @ mid-episode — Articulates Stern's strategy of amortizing accessory costs over time to reach $15k+ total spend.

  • “I don't know what's coming out next. John Wick probably is a pinball machine that exists somewhere, somewhere in the production dungeons.”

    Don @ later in episode — Expresses uncertainty about near-term releases while suggesting John Wick is in development pipeline.

  • “JJP has Muppets. What? Now, you know, coming out of the alcoholic whispers of MGC, I did hear Muppets a few times, right?”

    Don @ mid-episode — Introduces Muppets rumor; transparently acknowledges the source as unreliable hearsay.

  • “So we're going to go into the fall with a new game for sure from Stern and one from Jersey Jack. What's the new Stern game? I don't know.”

    Don @ mid-episode — Confident prediction about release timing but admits complete uncertainty about what the games will be.

  • “They're in these long development cycles of 12 to 18 months for these pinball machines. and then as they're nearing completion they kind of go into the holding pen”

    Don @ later in episode — Explains Stern's production holding pattern and strategic release timing based on market conditions.

Entities

DonpersonBlack Knight Sword of RagegameStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanySteve RitchiepersonJohn BorgpersonJohn Wickgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Godfather underperformed sales expectations; secondary market experiencing significant depreciation ($5k+ losses on Super Edition with Gold Lions).

    high · Don states 'they're not making 5,000 units of Godfather, especially with the prices completely tanking secondary market, taking $5,000 losses on the Super Edition with the Gold Lions.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Black Knight Sword of Rage experiencing unexpected demand resurgence on secondary market; Stern's rerun announcement validates early prediction by collector community that game had underrated appeal.

    high · Don unable to find BKSOR Pro listings on Pinside; machines sell immediately upon listing; enthusiasts buying used units post-rerun announcement.

  • ?

    community_signal: Munsters (particularly black and white premium) experiencing similar secondary market scarcity and value appreciation as BKSOR; collectors seeking limited editions at premium prices.

    high · Don notes LE versions command five figures; premiums also five figures if equipped with topper. Predicts rerun would sell 300-500 units within a week of production.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern making strategic decisions about which licenses to pursue/hold/release based on seasonal market conditions, zeitgeist, and competitive landscape rather than pure availability.

    medium · Don speculates Stern holds games in production queue and selects release timing based on 'what season are we in', 'what's the zeitgeist', and 'what's going on' in the market.

  • ?

    licensing_signal: License window expiration forcing re-theme or abandonment of completed game designs; Stern may strategically acquire licenses to block competitors.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.144

0:00
Don's Pinball Podcast is coming back at you for episode number 116 and settle in because this is going to be an intensive one. We got rumors and speculation, a new cornerstone literally around the corner, and all that and more coming up on another episode of Don's Pinball Supercast.
0:30
The Denise-y vibes always get me. Thank you so much for that intro music. What's going on, everybody? It's another spectacular Saturday here in the land of eagles and freedom and pinball. Within the United Arab Senate states, you know where we're at. What's going on? Didn't I tell you I'm a big giddy? didn't i tell you it was going to happen i was forecasting i was looking at the market as as one does and i was like what games could stern reach back into their grab bag from the past and put out and just kind of throw meat to the wolves get some sales going and you know help stabilize the market and black knight sword of rage particularly the pro machine was one of the games i was calling everybody was like dude nobody wants that game what are you talking about it came out no one bought it it sat around whatever they ended the run early blah blah blah this is the same thing happened with monsters by the way uh and then you know to them i say go look at the used market all right you know right now the market's saturated with venoms and foo fighters and bonds you can find deadpools all over the place jurassic park's coming out of our ears cornfields full of avengers infinity quest but try to find a black knight sword or rage pro on pin side you won't be able to find one i know because i've been looking because sometime Over the last six to eight months, I really warmed up to that machine. I had played it before, of course. All right, great. It's got a spinning flail, whatever. It's not really doing much for me. But that isn't getting better at playing pinball. I'm starting to appreciate that game. I must have started to appreciate Ninja Turtles on a whole new level, but that's another thing. But Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro, I was like, you know what? I kind of really want to get this game. It didn't sell very well. It's not super in demand. I'll just traipse on over to Pinside with $4,200, and I'll go have my pick of the probably 30 that are sitting there, right, which is what I thought. And then I go look over there, and it's like none. There's one listed, and it's pending, you know, or another one shows up. And by the time I inquire, it's already sold. I eventually did get myself one, but it was actually another one that was pending and already sold, and then just kind of kicking around. Through a friend of a friend, I got a contact with the seller and then found out that the original buyer was kind of dawdling, hadn't really paid his deposit, wasn't really his hem and haw about coming to pick it up. And my friend is like, you know, this is still sitting there, and I bet if you just come with cash, you probably could scoop it. And scoop it, I did. Shout out to Danny and Nicole out there in Virginia Beach. Thanks for hooking a brother up and facilitating my getting a Black Knight Sword of Rage. And I know you guys took it and played it for a little bit, and that's totally fine because you all packed it up great and sent it to me. So that's Casa doing business. No harm, no foul there. My booth babes, man. So I got myself this game, and I've been enjoying it ever since then. The game is brutally fast.

  • Munsters (particularly black and white premium) is experiencing secondary market scarcity and high prices similar to BKSOR

    high confidence · Don notes LE versions command five figures; even premiums are five figures. Predicts Stern could rerun this game with modest code update and accessories for 300-500 unit run.

    • Muppetsgame
    Foo Fightersgame
    Munstersgame
    Venomgame
    Jawsgame
    Elton Johngame
    Godfathergame
    Scott Ianperson
    Mad Pinballcompany
    Danny and Nicoleperson
    Chris Turnerperson
    Ninja Eclipsegame
    MGCevent

    medium · Don cites rumor that John Borg's follow-up (possibly Indiana Jones) had license window lapse; mentions Stern may acquire licenses defensively without intent to produce.

  • $

    market_signal: Stern reduced cornerstone releases from 3/year to 2/year; now rebuilding capacity in larger facility and appears to have backlog of completed/near-completion games ready for selective release.

    medium · Don states this as observation; Stern moved to larger facility; strategic timing of releases suggests deliberate holding pattern rather than production constraints.

  • ?

    community_signal: Ninja Eclipse gaining production traction and distribution expansion; game code evolving and cabinet design improving; targeting Southern Fried Gaming Expo for broader audience.

    medium · Don reports game was at MGC and is being promoted by Chris Turner on social media; inroads being made to get game to SFGE; code and cabinet improvements documented.

  • ?

    personnel_signal: John Borg reportedly had a completed game design whose license window lapsed, forcing Stern to pivot to re-theme or shelve the project.

    medium · Don cites hearsay from 'alcoholic whispers of MGC'; no direct confirmation; historical precedent cited (Police Force/Batman, Gladiators/Zelda).

  • $

    market_signal: Stern using deliberate accessory delay (12+ months post-release) to amortize costs and spread total spend over time, reaching $15k+ from initial $13k purchase.

    high · Don articulates the mechanism: Foo Fighters LE $13k + topper $2k + rod $225-275 + armor $250 = $15k+ when purchased separately; Venom topper delayed until 2025; Jaws accessories timing TBA.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Venom LE topper significantly delayed (not released as of episode; expected 2025); suggests Stern using accessory delay strategically across portfolio.

    high · Don notes Venom topper not released and predicts delay until 2025; pattern consistent with Foo Fighters ($1500 topper released ~1 year post-game).

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern planning summer cornerstone announcement and fall releases; production pipeline includes multiple games in holding pattern awaiting strategic release windows.

    medium · Don speculates Jaws completion (June), new announcement late April/May, production June, summer/fall release. Predicts fall will have new Stern and JJP cornerstones.

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Jersey Jack Pinball developing Muppets game; exact status, scope (which Muppets property), and timeline unknown.

    low · Don heard whispers at MGC; no whitewood sighting; no concrete sources; speculation on theme possibilities indicates rumor stage only.

    • 3:27
    Steve Ritchie's taunting me, which is like half the reason I even wanted this machine. I loved Mortal Kombat from back in the day. Mortal Kombat 1 came out. I was in grade school. We were hearing the rumors in the playground. Yo, there's a game where you rip a guy's head off. There's a game where you rip the heart out of somebody. We're throwing jump ropes at each other, yelling, get over here, right? And then, you know, I play the game. Finally, it's amazing and just, like, beyond my expectations. And then Mortal Kombat 2 came out with the boss, Shao Kahn. And who voiced that but Mr. Steve Ritchie, the same guy in the Black Knight Sword of Rage, in the topper, yelling at me, you weak, pathetic fool. Man, it's just amazing. So for me, hearing the Mortal Kombat sounds, it's got that pedigree, it's fast gameplay without being, like, a retro-inspired game. It's just great. And then I come to find out that there's retro modes within there, too. When you go to start the game, you know, hold the buttons down. You can pick other challenge modes. There's two timed modes in there. Both are based on assets from Black Knight and Black Knight 2000 within Black Knight Sword of Rage. It's all three Black Knights all together. Fast, feverish pinball action. Fight the sandworm. Kill the Hydra. Run from the Hell Hand. There's ice liches. What else do you need? How about some music from Scott Ian? It's in there, too, man. This game is a whole package. Y'all naysayers keep naysaying, and I'm going to keep playing this damn game, and I'm not looking forward to getting rid of it at all now. And now it's being run again. Finally, finally. There's an appetite out there for this game. Again, there's none on pin side, and when they do show up, boom, they're gone. And since the announcement that they're being rerun for release in June from the factory, people are posting like, I went out and bought one. I went out and got on a list. Hey, my distributor still has a couple. Hey, thanks. I just called him and I got one. So people are buying this game. This was a good move. This was the right move by Stern Pinball. And I called it, man. I called it because I got a sense for these things, man. Another game I think would probably do something similar to this for similar reasons is Munsters, particularly premium black and white. That's the trim level that I would put a deposit down on. Put it right next to my Elvira Blood Red Kiss and have black and white. kitschy horror themes oh my god i love it now another game wasn't terribly popular pre-covid times you know everybody wasn't going nuts about pinball like they are now definitely not like they were during covid so the game sold whatever moderately the run ended and then there wasn't any demand until now now people are looking back like hey i do like that theme i do like how that game plays i wouldn't mind getting in on some of that action but go ahead and try to find one Try to find an LE. You'll need five figures for sure. Even the premiums are five figures, especially if you can find that topper. It's the same situation as with Black Knight Sword of Rage, with a topper with a Mockingbird in it. I mean, you've got to have it. You've got to have it. Try to find some Monstrous accessories. It's going to be difficult. So this is another game where if Stern did the same thing where they came out with the accessories, the Mockingbird topper, the Stern armor, a shooter rod, a little bit of a modest code update, ran the black and white version again, re-up that license, boom, sell another 300 to 500 units and fill in a week of production. I can think of worse ways to spend a week in pinball. Stern knows this too. I had an epiphany the other day. What have we been telling Stern? We've been asking for at least the last couple of years, my God, I want these accessories closer to the pinball's release. And finally, as I was pontificating on this, I came up with the likely reason why we see these year-long delays between game release and topper release, game release and shooter rod release. And while we're probably going to still see that, even though when Venom came out, a lot of the creators were like, you know, we were looking at trying to get the accessories out a little closer to the game's release, but it dawned on me why. And here it is. It's all money. It's all a money reason. Okay, so Stern's top end trim levels, right? $12,999. $13,000. Okay, Foo Fighters LE, $13,000. Venom LE, new in box, $13,000. What a decision that was. Beautiful game, and I'm warmed up to the gameplay. Maybe we'll see a resurgence when 1.0 code hits, but whatever. So the game is that much. If that game came out and you could pick up your Venom LE for $13,000 plus a $1,500 topper plus a $250 shooter rod plus a $275 side armor kit, you'd be like, bro, pump the brakes. I'm not spending $15,000 on this license. I'm going to hold my money. Sales wouldn't be as robust as they were. Same with the premium. You wouldn't have gone in and it's like, oh, shoot, you know, this premium is $9,700, $9,500 if you got a sweetheart deal. And then, you know, you got to spend another $1,500 and blah, blah, blah. And then you're up to like $14,000 for a premium. So nobody would do that, right? But we want to have the new games when they come out. So we buy our premiums, we buy our LEs, and then we're sitting and we're like, where the hell are these accessories? Where are the expression lights? Where's my topper? Where's my whatever? Building demand, building demand, but also building funds back in your pinball bank account, right? And so then now we're a year later, and Foo Fighter topper comes out at $2,000, which is insane for the technology that's in that topper. Even licensing fees aside, that's still outrageously expensive and overpriced for what is a reskin of the R2-D2 topper, not the Black Knight Sword Rage topper. There, I said it again.
    8:54
    But now you're like, I've had Foo Fighters for a year. The game is dipping in price on the secondary market, so it's not really that lucrative to dump it. I do like the gameplay. The new code's coming out. Maybe I'll keep it. And since it's a keeper, I do want it to look nice. And these new toppers just came out, and they're going to be in limited release. So if I want one, I better go get one. And then they got you. That's how they got you. You want to know how they got you? That's how they got you. They got you the tune of $2,000 for that topper, $275 or $225 for the shooter rod, $250 for the side armor. And you're like, you know what? YOLO. I love Foo Fighters. I love Jack Danger. I love this game. I love the Combotron. ComboTron. I love the FooBot. I want it all. And that's how they did it. So they did get that $15,000 plus from you. It was just amortized over a year. And I think that works. I think that works. And they're smart not to say this is a limited edition topper. We're only going to make $500. They can make a million if they want. And they're going to keep it open edition, but they're not going to keep the supplies on the shelves possibly. That's probably what they were thinking. Now, I've heard tell that some dealers are overburdened in these expensive toppers and some are kind of getting discounted now to kind of move things along but you know I think you had a better chance of selling the public on a $2,000 topper if you built up that demand over a year and I think that's why the Venom topper is not out yet I think it's why the Jaws topper is not coming out until 2025 and so on and so forth as long as this keeps working right because if everything was released all at once it wouldn't sell as well as it does now and then they'd end the run and then whatever would happen with the market. That's my speculation. But like lightning hit my brain the other day, like Mr. Smee in Hook. And that's like it dawned on me, like the fog, the mists cleared and I was able to see the eclipse had passed. And I'm like, my God, this is, I think it was eclipse day when I was driving. I was stuck in traffic, by the way, coming back from Southern Illinois. Thank you, everybody from Chicago, for driving to Southern Illinois so I could be stuck in three extra hours of traffic just trying to get home. The Eclipse crossed the entire continent, did it not? You know, I figured, like, everybody would be dispersed along its course. The weather was supposed to be bad, but everybody showed up in Marion, Illinois, or at least between there and getting home. My goodness, man. Did I tell you guys about the Eclipse drive down? I went to MGC, and then we left Sunday afternoon. Plan was to leave at Sunday at noon so we could get down there plenty of time. But we were having such a great time with everybody there, having fun with the spooky crew, playing Ninja Eclipse, playing barbecue, you know, horse wrestling around with David Fix. It was nuts, right? It was a whole deal. So I didn't want to tear myself out of there super early, and I figured if I left at 5 o'clock, I could still get down to Wienerschnitzel in Champaign, Illinois, before it closed. Just the Midwest does have a Wienerschnitzel. There's one, and it used to be better than it is, and it's kind of dumpy. But, like, it's the only one between here and Arizona. That's the only place you can find them in Texas. Anyway, so I'm, like, three hours away from where Eclipse is going to be, And I like all right I just hit up Orbitz I just sit in the parking lot eat my hot dog We shoot up Orbitz I treat myself to a Holiday Inn Express for And no sir no sir every single hotel room but six were sold out completely in Champaign Illinois three hours from where the eclipse was going to happen. Anything south of there, boom, nothing. Even if I wanted to drive to 11 p.m., there was nothing to find. I spent $300 for a hotel that had already lost its franchise license because they had the brand name of the hotel taped over everywhere in the place. And they had two rooms left, and I was lucky to damn get it. Holy crap, I should have booked well in advance for that. There was a Howard Johnson's going in that town. They had six rooms left, $400. So if you planned at least a little bit ahead of time, you did better than I did, because I was not expecting that. That was a dirty move, Eclipse people. But luckily I didn't push through, get into town at 11 p.m., try to find a place, and end up sleeping at a rest stop. So for that, I'm thankful. The Eclipse was amazing. And, you know, I think it helped spur my brain. Thanks to everybody who checked out the live stream that I did of that. We had great conversations in a way that could capture the totality for everybody. Super cool experience. Back to pinball. Rumors galore, man. Have you heard this? JJP has Muppets. What? Now, you know, coming out of the alcoholic whispers of MGC, I did hear Muppets a few times, right? So I think, well, I strongly suspect that it is in development somewhere. But when and who, I have no clue and no idea. I didn't get any concrete information. I didn't see a white wood. Nobody spilled the beans on me. But you could hear it was almost like Stantler and Waldorf were just out of frame, and I could hear the whispers coming that Muppets is a thing in the pinball world. And for that, I am thankful. I love this. Look at this.
    13:43
    We'll buck the theme parks, right? The Muppet Vision 4D show has been running at the Hollywood Studios, former Disney MGM Studios, at Walt Disney World. It's a theater show, four-dimensional, and effects have been tweaked over time, but largely the show is unchanged from 1991, some quick math, and we're like 30 years ago and still playing to two-thirds full houses all day long. It's still popular and still funny and still relevant today. So there's some Muppets here. Now, I know Disney owns the Muppets now, and they've been trying to kind of reintroduce the movies and things, and they've been performing okay, but nothing like in their heyday. But I still think for classic Jim Henson Muppets, there is a demand there to go and play a Muppet Show pinball machine that Jersey Jack is doing, where they put in all the accoutrement and everything, and the final touches and all those other words I drop in there. You know, the most celebrational, informational, Muppetational, crazy-tational, it's the Muppet Show. The Muppet Show Pinball Machine? Do that. Do that, please. If they do some of the other Muppet movies, the more later ones, anything from Muppets from Space Beyond. Muppets from Space was good, but anything after that. I don't know if I'm in it. I would even go Muppet Treasure Island with Tim Curry. Come on. Tell me you wouldn't watch that. Stantler and Waldorf. The Prawn. The Muppets Family Christmas. Not Muppets Christmas Carol, but Muppets Family Christmas is one of the best Muppet films ever. Everybody's in it. The Sesame Tree characters are in there. The Fraggles are in there. Jim Henson's in there at the end. It's just fantastic. It was made for TV, and it rules. It still sticks today. Gonzo and his chickens. Sweet as chef. Come on, man. This thing writes itself. You want to go spend $10,000 on ABBA? You want to go spend $7,000 on barbecue? Well, I hope you don't want to spend $7,000 on barbecue. Muppets. Muppets, I'm interested. At least at a platinum level, I'm interested if they go ahead and do that. Now, I don't know if it's happening. If it's happening, I don't know if it's happening at Jersey Jack. And if it's happening at Jersey Jack, I don't know that it's happening next. But I do know that somewhere, at some point, there was a plan to do it. I can say that much for sure. So is Mark Seidens' game up next? I don't know. I haven't heard. It's all speculation. Maybe you all know more than I do about that. When's it coming, though? Here, let's speculate a little bit. Okay, so we had Elton John come out. We know Godfather didn't sell as well as they were probably hoping. Certainly, they're not making 5,000 units of Godfather, especially with the prices completely tanking secondary market, taking $5,000 losses on the Super Edition with the Gold Lions. Man, those gold lines were awesome. So, okay, so they had to put something else on the line, and we got Elton John for Expo in October, right? Well, the year's going on. We're in April now, right? So we're four, five, six, seven months from then. I think it's time for another game. I think it's time for another game this summer, and I think we'll see it by Expo for sure while we see it for Southern Fried Gaming Expo. Maybe. If you would have asked me earlier in the year, I would have said no, but now maybe. And I think it's all going to come down to what Elton John's sales numbers are doing. So right now, they're still running that collector's edition. I think that sold fairly well. People are loving this game. They're loving the collector's edition. Have it at home. You ballers with $15,000. You want the light show on the ceiling. It comes equipped with a topper, shooter rod. You get it all. No waiting a year for accessories. It's all up front. So, you know, in a way, yeah, Stern, $13,000, but then they're going to get you for $3,500 later. Here, Jersey Jack at least puts it all in one nice package with a bow. I still think it's overpriced, but at least it's more straightforward with its pricing. you know what you're getting into. You know what you're getting into. And the game's not half bad, Elton John. It doesn't have the depth of adventure like a Jaws does, but it does have the spectacle. And for that, we're thankful. So they're going to go back and do another run of the Platinum Editions next. I know that for sure. Talking with distributors, talking with friends of mine who've decided to go ahead and get one of those, they're hearing that the Platinum Editions are largely sold out right now, but they'll be in the next production run, and so those are coming. So at least it's going to be more of a production run for PEs for sure, platinum level to you muggles out there. And then when those dry up, if you want to keep the line moving, you're going to need another game, and that's when I hope we'll see it. Is it going to be Matrix? Is it going to be Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? I don't know. But I'm speculating that we'll see something probably as the summer goes on, as we're starting to get into the autumn time, as the Halloween events start creeping forward. Halloween Horror Nights start in August this year. That's nuts. But I love it. I'll be Halloweened out before we even get to October, which is fine because it gets busier then. I'll do it all early. August, September, Halloween, let's do it. So we're going to go into the fall with a new game for sure from Stern and one from Jersey Jack. What's the new Stern game? I don't know. Now, John Wick is what we've been hearing. But here's the thing. I think that Stern probably has by now three, maybe even four games that are, like, ready for production. and pull the trigger and we could ramp up in three weeks and put these things out there, right?
    18:41
    They went from their three cornerstones a year down to two. They slowed down their production. Now they're in a bigger facility. They're getting caught back up, and they probably have a backlog of projects ready to go. I heard this rumor that Mr. John Borg, whose follow-up to Rush should have been out by now, he actually had a game that was designed, and then it sounds like the license actually lapsed, that little window period where they can make the game according to the original negotiations. has actually lapsed. And so that game has now been dropped. Now, I don't feel bad for John Borg. I think this game is still going to come out. It's just probably going to get a re-theme, right? You know, they probably have the rudimentary code done. And you just kind of build off of that. And instead of building Indiana Jones, maybe now it's going to be John Wick or Dungeons and Dragons or whatever the heck all the rumors have been hearing. I've been hearing all kinds of stuff. And, you know, this isn't new for pinball. I mean, Police Force was supposed to be Batman back in 1989, right? gladiators are supposed to be legend of zelda and that got a re-theme um so you know i could see this happening maybe the theme maybe it wasn't indiana jones maybe it was a theme that just wasn't really as strong maybe it was a movie that came out just didn't do very well and it's kind of dead now and they're like you know before we put forward all the effort to put our name and everything in our production machine behind this title that's really just kind of mid maybe we'll just let that one go and we'll get something else no certain does this if they hear that another a company is strongly rumored to be coming out with something, they may run out and get that license with no intentions of ever actually running it, but just to kind of block that, just a blocking play. So it was a license that probably wasn't going to sell amazingly well. Otherwise, they probably would have hurried and rushed it out and met their deadlines and things. So all this is to say, I don't know what's coming out next. John Wick probably is a pinball machine that exists somewhere, somewhere in the production dungeons. Is it going to be released next? Is it going to be released three games from now? I don't know. But the game is probably just as done now as it will be three games from now. And John Wick probably was the title that was going to be released next. It maybe still is, or maybe it'll be shelved and tripped over. You know, Venom was done for a year or more from what I'm hearing. And, you know, we heard rumors that it was coming out, and then it didn't. And then it was supposed to be Foo Fighters, and then all of a sudden they just switched around and Foo Fighters came out. So here's probably what they're doing. You know, they're in these long development cycles of 12 to 18 months for these pinball machines. and then as they're nearing completion they kind of go into the holding pen where it's like okay you guys are on deck we don't know who we're going to put in next here let's look at our release window okay we're about six weeks out from where we want to get this thing going let's take a look at what the market's doing what season are we in okay we need a summer launch title you know maybe this kind of dark drab plotting drama film we shouldn't go with we should put out this action comic book theme for the summer to be our summer game people are playing it out in the arcades they're getting their home they're all excited they're outside getting vitamin D. And then later in the year, maybe this game would work better, depending on what's going on in that zeitgeist. Hashtag Pinball Nerds Podcast.
    21:40
    That's what I'm saying. So my speculation is that John Wick is a machine that's probably going to come out. Might be next, or might be three games from now. I don't know. But I think we're going to see something this summer. We're coming up to the next run of Jaws Pros. I think they're running them through right now. And then that'll probably get sales pretty much caught up. Maybe another run of those premiums. I haven't seen the release planning schedule for the next three months recently, but I'm sure by the time we get into June, the Jaws premiums and pros should be just about caught up with demand. And then, hey, it's new cornerstone time. They want to do three games a year. Jaws was January. Here we are in April going into May.
    22:21
    Announce something at the end of April, put it in production in May, get it out in June. That seems to fit. And then you could have another game ready for that August, October window so that you can be ready for the next January release of the first Cornerstone of 2025. So it all makes sense. I think we're going to see something soon, and I can't wait to see what it is. Honestly, I'm going to be surprised because I don't know what it is. And even if it is John Wick, I'll still be like, oh, hey, look at this, new pinball machine. Let's go check out the shots and layout and things and see if we're going to go on one of these things. If you do want to go on one of these, I'm going to go email jeff at madpinball.com. I already have my name on a list over there with that guy. so when it comes out if I do want to go on it I'm already in line I think it's a great place to be and you know you're not under any commitment or anything so I like operating that way you know finder distribute they have a good relationship with and you know I've been saying from the beginning mad's been great because when I when I met this guy in this group over there you know it's not like they had you know years-long waits that I had to jump in line for like with some of the other bigger guys to just do a lot of volume I was able to slip right in there and get myself a Godzilla premium before the price increased, man. That was one of my best moves ever of last year. So yeah, that's awesome. So check out Jeff at MadPinball.com. You know the jingle. Alright. What else do I have to talk about? Let's talk about, in the spirit of fraterniality, Pinball Nurse Podcast, Albert Agar. What a guy. Orbital Albert. So the word is diaspora. Okay, he was trying to find it, which happens to all of us, right? So, you know, I use these two words, zeitgeist and diaspora. They're related, but they mean something different So I thought we have a little vocabulary time I don have any good vocabulary music to play But you know Zeitgeist is kind of the cultural sense the gestalt of the community whatever it is You know, among like the kids that are yelling mid and everything or doing a TikTok trend or something, it's like that's what's happening at the moment, you know, in the culture, whichever one you're referring to. Whereas diaspora refers to people that collectively belong to a sort of social group or share a certain interest but are spread apart around the globes or anything. So zeitgeist is more kind of what's going on in the minute. The diaspora is kind of what all the coalition of enthusiasts or religious group or whatever social group you belong to culturally or otherwise and kind of where they're at. So they kind of mean like where is this particular defined set of culture on this issue? It's just whether it's kind of like moment to moment, inclusive of everybody or more like exclusive of, you know, like, you know, people that know about pinball podcasts. Let's say like what we're doing versus what in the coaster community we would call the GP or the general public. Right. You know, we go to an amusement park and we know the manufacturer of all the rides, all the roller coasters who built that train, whether that's the new version, the old version, whether this is the type of restraints we like on this arrow looper. Or we like the new restraints that Comeback Rides is making for the Vekoma boomerangs or whatever it is. And then there's people that just go to amusement parks to enjoy themselves and their family. You know, normal, well-adjusted people. But we all have two different takes on things, you know. You know, the type of ride that is very popular with the public tends to not be terribly popular with roller coaster enthusiasts because if it's popular, it's going to get cloned and put everywhere. And we've ridden 20 versions of that ride. We want something unique. We want original themes when it comes to roller coasters. The general public wants what they knew they liked 10 years ago, and, oh, they have one of them here, too. Let's go have fun. Again, it's like two different perspectives that you would get. And we have endless arguments that sound exactly like pinball arguments if you didn't really know the nuance of what we were talking about. Ninja Eclipse. We just had an eclipse, and it took me 11 hours to drive back from. I spent the weekend at MGC prior to the eclipse, and Ninja Eclipse was there, man. I was able to play the dang thing. and yeah, it's a fun game. The code has evolved a lot as has the cabinet, thankfully. So they had the same cabinet machine from TPF was at MGC. Only won this time, but hey, I'm glad it was there and it looks like they're making inroads to get the game to Southern Fried Gaming Expo so more people can play it. What I'm starting to see are posts from people and Chris Turner's credit. He is all over the social media promoting his game as one should, man. You know, this guy wants us to get this game off the ground. Keep telling people about it. Keep showing it off. That's how you do it. That's how you sell pinball machines. and Curry good will and good favor. So it's important to keep perspective here. Okay, so this isn't a James Bond, a Deadpool, a Ninja Turtles, right? This is Ninja Eclipse. So this isn't a game that's going to sell 3,000 to 4,000 units. And he's looking at only getting out 100 of this first game, which puts the game in a lot better light than if he was out there asking, you know, people to jump in and buy out his supply of 5,000 machines, right? He's not doing that. He's got 100, and he wants to start. He's starting with a goal that he can achieve, which is important. He could get pre-orders for 5,000 machines, but if he can't spool up and deliver them, we know how that goes, right? Just take a look on the other side of the planet at all the Centaurs that are never, ever probably going to get made, at least not by the current crew. Sorry. Just reality. Slashing through there. But at 100 games, here's what I'm starting to see. People that love pinball and like things that are original and unique and already have a stable of the Deadpools and Bonds and Venoms and whatever. They're looking for something a little different, and they're taking a chance on this sub-$7,000 game, Ninja Eclipse, because it does provide something different with a cohesive art package. It comes with art blades, lights, a topper glass that's actually glass this time, and an innovative way to lift the whole thing off and get that same effect that you get with Penn Stadiums without the cumbersome magnetic strips and lights that come off. It's all attached to the glass and the armor and the lockdown bar is one piece. that just lifts right off the machine. You can access everything, put it back down on there. It's kind of cool. It's a cool piece of tech within Pinball. So there you go. He's not beating people over the head trying to sell thousands of these things. He's taking orders for 100, and people are starting to order them. I'm seeing posts from people, hey, I played the game. I checked it out. I'm excited about it. I kind of want to get one, and my deposit's in. So now we'll wait and see how Chris can deliver. From what I've heard, they want to kind of get a batch of sales going, and then go ahead and buy batches of parts so they come in at a lower price and keep that MSRP down, and then he'll do a run of maybe 30, put them out, and then maybe another 30, and then one more of those, and he's just about sold out of the first game. They can go into something compelling for the second one. We do like licenses, sir. I've had this conversation with him. Hopefully he's heard, and we'll start to see some relationships for some cool license themes that really speak to us, because when you're going head-to-head with the big guys, it's kind of where you need to bring it. Bring the creativity. Do what other people aren't doing. You know, don't just take a lunchbox and dip it over a machine that's been changed from one theme to another or whatever. You know, come correct with something amazing. Like we see that Spooky does. They get all the assets for their theme and they go whole hog into it. We saw that with Labyrinth. That was a long-term development and came out fantastic. Look at the frickin' topper, man. And at $1,000, half the price of the Foo Fighters topper. I just want to rant on that, man. The Foo Fighters topper is cool. I like the lights. I like the plastics that are up there. I like the FooBot head that rotates back and forth just like R2-D2 does. And I like the voice integration. So, you know, it's not the designer's fault. It's the marketing and business department and admins that put a $2,000 price tag on here that just feels kind of gross, man. I don't like it, you know. You know, if I had this game, I'd like to trick out my games. But at this price, you know, I'm really thinking, yeah, I'm probably not going to. And that's not fun. That's not fun for pinball. keep the price reasonable and and sell more and make the same amount of money and keep people happy don't just i don't like feeling that gouge man i don't want to have that gouge sticking out of my side um so that's where we're at with that what else do we got oh i'm giving stuff away homies all right so if you haven't heard get out from under that rock i'm giving away a set of powder-coated jaws armor from cab customs i bought one they sent me an extra one to give away i went and took it to my powder coater got it done it's got the jaws logo on the side down by the flipper button. I'm looking at it right now. It's got the silhouette of the woman swimming above it, that classic Jaws logo, in a black and red kind of sparkly foam backing that shines through the armor with the shark bite on there. I've got it on my premium, and it looks great. It would look great on an LE. It would fit right in, and it would really class up your pro. Grab that lockdown bar, take it to a powder coater for $15, $20, and there you go. The whole thing's done. Quick makeover, and you get it for free. Where do you get it? From me. How do you get it? You email me at donspinballpodcast at gmail.com What are you going to email me? A photo of yourself and a Jaws machine. However you want to do that. Illustrate it if you want. Take it out of the top of the ski slopes like I've been seeing people do. Whatever you want to do. It could be your game. It could be your neighbor's game. Sneak into your cousin's house and take a picture through the window. Whatever you want to do. However you want to do it. Just email it to me and you're entered. So far I've got 17 people entered to win this so chances are good that you can win. Email me. I'll email you back saying that you're in and you're in. Randomly I'll be drawing somebody's name on April 30th. This month. It's in like two weeks. We'll do a Facebook Live for notoriety and what do you call it?
    31:41
    Notary purposes. We'll spin the wheel. Everybody will be signing a number or whatever and we'll see who wins and then I'll contact you by email and I'll ship it out to you for free. Open to anybody worldwide to participate because that's fun. So yeah. So this will be super cool. I love this armor. I love this Jaws game. And this is a great way to celebrate it and get yourself some free armor, man. This armor's dope. And I want to see pictures once you put it on your machine or whatever you do with it. You don't have to put it on Jaws. Put it on Deadpool for all I care. It's still awesome. So yeah, I am doing that. Shout out also while we're on the podcast to the Phantom Tail podcast. Ryan and Kimba, those homies from Australia. Dude just launched his podcast. He's already killing it. He reminds me of me. Just out there grinding, putting out episodes, putting out perspective with him and his wife. So they have like a, a great, like, like duo, like back and forth. Um, and I love hearing their perspective from Australia. I want to see how pinball's growing in different regions. Um, I, I want to see more European podcasters. Um, and I love the Australian perspective. Want to get out there. I love to travel, meet other people and expand the diaspora, right? For the, for the zeitgeist or whatever, but it's great to hear Australian perspective. We had a great conversation for about an hour. And that was my last podcast episode that I went ahead and put up there. People that have listened have really been enjoying it. So check that out. That was episode 115 that just went up. And we're just, I love this. You know, I don't put an itinerary really up at all. And it's just two of us talking about pinball. And we just go. And it's like, it's been an hour. That's fine entertainment. And I'm happy to return the favor any time there, my homies. So check that out. Because between the Aussie Pinball Podcast and Final Round, not doing very regular content, this is the guy that's really bringing the voice, especially of Western Australia, into our ear holes. And for that, we are thankful. What else do we got? ABBA versus barbecue. Let's talk about this. So, you know, stepping back from the Sterns and the Spookys and the JJPs, you know, the big guys. We've got this other battle kind of between ABBA and barbecue. Kind of a little bit lopsided, a little bit mismatched. ABBA definitely looks like the better machine. ABBA is definitely the more expensive machine. The Pinball News and World Report Speaking of European podcasts Just put out an interview episode With the lone brother From Pinball Brothers About ABBA, I listened to it last night During my night shift It was interesting Went on and just talked about What their thoughts were behind Putting ABBA together A lot of it had to do with that new ABBA Voyage show Which now I need to check out Because it sounds awesome Hopefully it comes to Vegas and I can go check it out I want to see the holographic holograms of the ABBA folks, A-B-B-A, standing for their names and such. I still don't know why this game didn't launch in the forum of the show that was going on. But, yeah, the game looks fun. ABBA is not a musical theme that I really care to dive into full time. I don't know if I have to play the game to see, like, is it just Dancing Queen 24-7? Because, man, I don't know if I could stand that. I'm going to go play my ABBA virtual machine maybe later today and just see if I can get in the mood. But whatever, I want to play the game. It does look like it plays better than Queen just based on the layout and some of the mechanisms that are in there. But for a $10,000 to $11,000 budget, $11,000 for the art that you want, I don't know if I'm going to jump to it. It's weird to have a limited trim level, a higher trim level that really has nothing else to offer except for cabinet decals. That's $1,000 for art. you know, is it $1,000 because that's the license that's tied to the Voyage show? I don't know what's going on. I would have expected something else to be included there, or maybe it was that they just included all the extras on both trim levels. We'll see. If one shows up at Interium or Madison, I'll go play it, but I'm not pre-ordering one just yet. Versus Barbecue, the other kind of new game that's out. To American Pinball's credit, they got this game out everywhere. It's on location all over the country. It's been at TPF. It was at MGC. It's probably going to continue to be at shows So you'll be able to play barbecue If you want to The question is are you going to be playing barbecue in your house From what I'm hearing back from distributors The pre-orders are as dry as some Overcooked ribs Some overcooked St. Louis ribs And yeah Opinions are mixed I had some time to digest this I played this game in three different states now Three Two Two different states And you know the game fun to play A couple of weird design decisions Putting spinners on ramps probably hasn really been done for a reason, because a ramp already kind of robs some energy, and then the spinner robs even more, and, you know, it sucks to have a shot that would go up the ramp, but then the spinner was there, and even if it does make it through there, it's not going fast like it's ripping through an orbit where it's just going to cause that spinner to go nuts. Maybe I'm just not a good pinball player? I don't know. There's some interesting things you don't see a whole lot. Maybe there's some reason behind there, but they took a chance. Take a chance.
    36:35
    It's a game. It's definitely a pinball game. I do enjoy playing it on location, but playing it at home probably is not going to happen anywhere really based on sales. I'd love to be proven wrong, and we'll wait and see how that goes. I haven't seen any of them show up on the secondary market yet. That's always telling. But if not that many are selling, are that many going to show up on the secondary market? Here's where I put these two games head-to-head because, you know, to their credit, Pinball Brothers is making 800 ABBA machines, and they're both limited, limited to 300 and 500. You know, barbecue isn't limited, but probably around 300 is what they looked at building for a year. So, yeah, a bit more modest in the projections. So, okay, I kind of get it now. You know, they weren't coming out the gate wanting to sell 5,000 machines. To do that, they really need a license, and the rumor is American Pinball has a couple of license potentials. We've been hearing a lot about Cuphead Coming out I guess What's that guy's name Andrew Dwight no The Sonic Kid I'll just call him Sonic Kid Ryan McQuaid I believe is his name Haven't had the pleasure of meeting him but I saw him running around A barbecue apron And at TPF So you know he's been around We'll wait and see what he has to bring I guess it's been a couple of years that he's been working there And still haven't seen anything yet Maybe this will be the year When are we going to see something next from I almost called them pinball brothers from American Pinball, my American Pinball bros, I'll call them. I really don't know what their release schedule is going to be like. It sounds like there may or may not be a game at Expo, and it sounds like they haven't decided yet. So maybe there'll be one, or maybe it'll be later in the year, or maybe it'll be January. I just don't know. I do like playing barbecue, but if you're going to put out a game that's called barbecue in a barbecue country like we are, you really have to just go all into the nuance that barbecue has in the U.S. Every different region of the country has some sort of prepared meat product loosely associated with the word barbecue. Some places barbecue is a verb. Other places barbecue is a proper noun. Some places it's drenched in vinegary sauce. Some places it's mustard sauce. Some places it's a tomatoey KC masterpiece, what have you. So I didn't see this as a game that was really embracing the regionality of barbecue. How fun would that be to play different modes from around the country, like collect the Carolina barbecue inserts and modes, and then go into the vinerie-based sauce areas, and then go into the St. Louis area, and the Kansas City area, and the Texas area, and the California soy sprout vegan barbecue or something. That would be fun to kind of tour around regions and regional cuisine and how cool would this have been? All right, here's my pitch. Let's go back a year and a half when this thing was in development. Let's go on a trip with David Fix in a car around the U.S., and let's film barbecue footage at barbecue places that represent the regions where they are occurring at, and let's play that on the back screen. You know, when we're in the St. Louis area, we're stopping at some St. Louis hotspots. We're filming on location. So we're using real assets from the real location, all on a madcap road trip with who better than David Fix? I would go on that trip, sir. I want to go on that pinball trip. I would have loved to see something like that. You know, we got Barry O up there on the back glass. And then I don't see any references to Barry O within the gameplay itself, which is a little strange. Also, it says hot rods and barbecue. But the only place I'm seeing a hot rod is sometimes on the screen with some cell phone game type graphics. It's kind of all over the place. You know, you got the, of course, the wonderful meat footage that we've seen, but then you also have this pretty rudimentary animation that almost looks like placeholder animation. Is that final? Is that going to be improved upon? I have no idea. And those are things I really want to know before I put down money for a game like this. So coming back to barbecue and playing it more at MGC, I'm just coming up with much more questions, you know, than satisfying answers. Maybe I'm making too much out of this game, but I feel passionate about it. But, you know, I do like playing it. I love the wacky concept. And I'd like to see it go into these directions because I think I'd get even more enjoyment out of it. Maybe I'm to the point of actually dragging one of these things home and slathering it up in Sweet Baby Ray's or something. You know, I like more vinegar-based. But, you know, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Maybe make the coin door look like a grill. Or we need some kind of topper that's like a hibachi or like some pigs jumping over fences or roasting on a spit or something. Something, man. So that's my thoughts on barbecue rambling as they are. It is a pinball machine. Abba's a pinball machine. These are two machines that are coming out right now that are out. They're released. Hopefully we get to play them soon, but they could really be more different in theme, right? I mean, you know, Swedish pop band rolling barbecue chicken.
    41:28
    Am I playing pinball or am I standing at the rotisserie at Costco? What's going on here? What's going on?
    41:35
    So where are they going to shake out? I guess that just remains to be seen. What else do we have? Cuphead, is that coming out? Cuphead's a fun game. Max Fleischer type animation. Could it be compelling pinball? I guess. Maybe if it's like Legends of Ahala. Probably American Pinball's best game. It's my favorite.
    41:52
    You know, who knows? I'm just going to take a back seat. I'm going to let them drive. And I'm just going to wait and see where we end up, where we get going. So this rumor cropped up again on Nap Arcade that American Pinball still does actually have that He-Man license. and maybe Christopher Franchise attached to the project? Oh, my heart can weep for that, sir. If that's a game, just get barbecue the hell off the production line. Throw some He-Man on there. Let's move 2,500 units. Let's make some capital. Let's pay some employees, and let's throw them a hell of a Christmas bonus. Let's do that. I will get me a Masters of the Universe pinball machine today. Give me that Skeletor. Give me the – what's He-Man's sword called? would I lift above my magic sword and say by the power of Grayskull. Like that is the side armor I want to see. I don't want to see the fencing swords on a multi-morphic machine. I want to see Prince Adam's sword on either side of the cabinet. Or maybe like Skeletor's scepter on one side and He-Man's sword on the other side. Like a Skeletor decal on one side and a He-Man on the other so you can have whichever way you face it you get that effect. Or maybe make two different versions. You can pick if you want the Skeletor version or you want the He-Man version, or maybe just make two complete art packages that are completely different, and one is just stacked with villains, and the other one's stacked with the heroes, and the hero one is the one everybody thinks they want, but really the villain one's the one they want. Give me a Skeletor pinball machine, Skeletor's pinball adventures. I will go on that pinball adventure for sure. So that's wishful thinking. That's like, as much as I want spooky pinball to make Beetlejuice, I want somebody to make He-Man. I want a Skeletor machine. I want Skeletor. You can put Battle Cat in there if you want, but I need Skull Mountain. I need Skeletor. I need that scepter.
    43:35
    Evil in. Let's get Beastman. We will rule Eternia. Yeah, I would be a fan of that. Let's talk about CGC for a second. I don't know why. They're still making Pulp Fictions. What's Pulp Fiction LE doing? Hang on a second.
    43:53
    All right, guys, I just wanted to pop over to Pinside. I've been meaning to do this. So I want to go check what the used market is for, well, used and new market is for Pulp Fiction. So SEs, there's five ads listed. One of them is still asking for pre-order deposits from Pinball Star, which is who I've got mine on order from, only because Mad Pinball wasn't distributing their games back when I put in my pre-order. But I'm seeing some other games going for MSRP right now for the SE, some which say immediate delivery, game is in hand, like come get it. I'm suspecting that the heat is cooling off on this title now. Not that it isn't a great title, and I can't wait to get mine, but I think we're not seeing the $3,000 markup strictly for Bad Mother Flipper deposits like we were seeing, God, that must have been a year ago now. There's one listed there. Somebody in Madison, Wisconsin, of all places, near me, has one up for trade looking for oddball things. It's got a price at about $9,500, which is about, yeah, that's about MSRP. So I'm wondering, back when this thing was first pre-orders were being taken and pre-orders went for $1,000 and then they were being flipped for $2,000 and $3,000. I don't know if they actually were being sold at that, but that's what they were being listed at. I remember seeing somebody asking for $3,000 just for the opportunity to take over his $1,000 deposit, which you'd still have to pay to whoever he had a pre-order for for that limited edition. But I'm suspecting that it's probably cooled off by now. and we still have no idea when the LEs are even coming. So when they do come, are people going to be moved on so much that they'll be like, you know what, just give me what I have into this game and take it off my hands. People were thinking, like, this is a game I'm going to be able to flip for $13,000 when I get one. I'm going to make $4,000. All I have to do is wait. And it seems like if you wanted to make some money off of this game, you're already too late. You probably should have got that pre-order deposit in, and then when it was still super hot, you know got you know two thousand dollars for it and just been on your way and you know happy to make that that flip so when this game comes out they're making a thousand of them there's going to be a thousand le's because they sold out and so are people going to still go through with the purchase you know if they've cooled on it are they going to let their deposits go and then these will show back up um to be sold again at msrp or will people cough up the cash take delivery and then try to sell this new in box for a markup. I mean, if like hundreds of them are hitting the market like this all at the same time, I just don't think you're going to be getting three grand in profit like you think you were going to get. And I can't wait to see what happens. I still wouldn't mind picking up an LE and I'd probably even sacrifice my $500 deposit I have on the SE and just take over someone's deposit if they wanted for now. But, you know, I'm kind of a weird guy like that. I don't know if everybody is feeling like that. And honestly, if you gave me the option of, say, refunding my $500 deposit and going in on something else, I may consider it at this point. I may consider that. So I just think that the market has probably cooled significantly since this game was first asking for money. And I think the reason for that is the wait is just too damn long. It's just too long to wait for really any game. And like I said before, I'm tired of putting down money and waiting a year or more for a game. So when it comes to DPX, when it comes to Dutch Pinball, when it comes to CGC, I'm just going to wait. And then once they're available, I'll go get them. You know, if I really wanted a Cactus Canyon, I could go get them right now. There's people that have deposits in that are just stuck and still haven't got their Cactus Canyons. They'll probably get them a heck of a lot sooner than people are going to get their Fathoms. And they're going to get them infinitely sooner than people are going to get their Centaurs. Because I just don't think that that game is ever going to be made.
    47:35
    Pinball Podcast at Gmail. Enter to win some Jaws armor. Email me and let me know what you're going to think about the show. Jump on the Discord. Jump on the Facebook group. We're up to 1,200 followers. Heading up to 13,000 pretty soon. 1,300. I'll be at Southern Fright Gaming Expo. I can't wait to get down there and do some more pinball and stuff. We're having fun in the hobby. Enjoy your weekend, everybody. It's finally sunny. Spring is here.
    47:57
    Happy flipping. Just not that L.E. because I'm getting flipped.