Welcome back everybody to another edition of a pinball podcast. I have Tom Graff with me once again from the pinball network in Fox cities and we're going to be going over what we've seen so far out of Avengers Infinity Quest. I know everybody's been talking about it a lot. It's the talk of the town and it should be because it looks like such a great damn game and we're going to spend this podcast just kind of going over what we see and what we think about it. Sound good, Tom? Sounds awesome. All right, so do you have one? I can't wait to play this damn game. I was about to ask you, do you have one on order? I do. I was able to secure an LE as soon as I saw the video. There you go. And I have an LE also. Yes. So with both of us getting an LE, you guys know already you're going to be listening to this. We're already all in. So, I mean, there might be a couple things to criticize here and there, but there's not much. There's really not much. Yeah, I haven't bought an LE in a long time, so I have a feeling this is going to be something special. Yeah, and we were talking about that a little bit off camera or off podcast or off audio, whatever you want to call it. We were talking about the various shots and everything, and what I found so fascinating to zero in on was that ramp that can be hit with all three flippers. The banana ramp. Yeah, and the funny part of... Also, I thought that was the gauntlet ramp. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the gauntlet. Well, banana ramp. Everybody's going to call it that now. Elwin's going to kill you now. Congratulations. Lock the door. I think Gary Stern called it that. Did he? With the rumor, so... Well, what I find fascinating about this ramp is the fact when you really look at it, and if you're watching this podcast or listening to this podcast, feel free to bring up the play field, just the whole play field of the LE, and that's what we're kind of using as reference right now. And looking at this ramp, I've noticed that just the way that it's bowed out, it really allows you to hit it from all types of different angles, and I don't see this ramp having any rejects, really. It's going to be very difficult, I think, seeing this for there to be rejects. At least that's what my instinct is telling me. What do you think, Tom? Yeah, I mean, you're going to be able to hit it from the upper flipper and the left flipper, it looks like, pretty easily. And then it looks very backhandable from the right flipper. Yeah, and I'm excited about that, and probably most likely from a trap. I'm not sure if that can be backhanded on the fly. It might be able to, just because of the way it's bowed. We're going to try it right during the tournament, you know it. You can thread that needle, that's awesome. But another point about that ramp, too, and I'll mention this on my other video that I have coming out that's just a full overview of the play field, is I noticed that when I played the video in .25 speed, because I'm that obsessed over finding shots and geometry, I noticed that a forehand shot from the left grazed off that post, leading to the Captain Marvel ramp. and yet it still had enough juice because of the way that that gauntlet ramp or the banana ramp is designed. It still had enough to get up there with speed. I really, that was a nuance that I really did like. Yeah. Yeah, it looks amazing. Drool is coming out of my mouth right now. I can't even speak. It looks so awesome. There's so much going on about it. And especially if I look at this from a design, what catches my eyes immediately is that I'm pretty sure, I'm about 99% sure that that disc and the Captain Marvel ramp were basically two things that are the foundational pieces to this design. Okay. Because if you really look at it, like let's just take the disc for instance, Tom. if you really look at it and consider this disc which is for people that haven't seen it for whatever reason though i think everybody listened to this has probably seen it by now it works very similar to the circus voltaire uh disc or whatever that's called to where you know it'll stand up eventually and you can hit the ball inside to get to a subway but what i noticed that i really do like about this is just because the way the shots are built around it my instinct is telling me that this disc is just, it's a major foundational point to this whole design because the shots around it complement it so much. When we're talking about the target right behind it, we're talking about the way that the pops work with that through shot, going around to be able to hit the spinner from a different angle. We're talking about the way that the upper flipper is, the inset to where the ball can travel perfectly, you know, right next to that disc into the Avengers Tower. And then also the fact that you can hit that disc legitimately inside from the upper flipper as well you can hold it up and just hit it right in there so i really think that that's a foundational piece to this design agreed yeah and you know the the cool thing about the spinner is uh as you can see if you're looking at the play field uh you can spin it clockwise and you can spin it counterclockwise and obviously there's going to be something in the game whether it's starting modes or the multiball where you're going to have to spin it a certain way to either unlock or start a mode possibly or maybe lift that portal up so it's going to be interesting to find out exactly as we were talking about this before we don't really see anything that says mode start on the game. No, we don't. I've looked around and I've tried to figure that part out and I'm honestly not quite sure. I've seen some inserts, especially focusing in again on the Doctor Strange disc area, that I think that there's an area around there that says Hawkeye Challenge and my guess is that itself might be a mini-mode to where that's what causes that little post to pop up to where you're basically having to hit the ramp over and over and over again, the boat ramp, banana ramp, gauntlet ramp, whatever we want to call it, with that upper flipper to where then it can just hit back and reset. I kind of wonder if that might be a mini mode up there, but yeah, looking around the play field in general, I'm not quite sure yet how those modes will actually work. It doesn't seem like that there's anything, you know, I mean, it could be an Iron Maiden thing that maybe you just got to hit so many shots to spell out something to light a mode that that could be it but i know obviously they got the collect gem shot at the infinity gauntlet as well okay so i'm kind of wondering if that might work similar to soul shard maybe you finish a mode that is exclusive to that particular gem and then your final shot is that collect gem shot up top that goes past the gauntlet maybe at that point maybe that's when that post comes up you collect the gem and it goes down and then you have that quick breathing point because then the lcd lights up lights go nuts that could be it right there as well i just i found it i find it ironic that dr strange is the focal point of the topper um on you know for the topper of the game so i'm kind of wondering if if you know possibly spelling his, you know, strange on the play field is going to be a big part of the game. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it definitely has to do with one of the multi balls. I think the question is and I heard somebody I heard some people ask me this question Will it be similar to the way that Jurassic Park topper was to where you had to spell out letters Like they were wondering that Is there like some type of DLC built into the topper And, you know, I could kind of see that link. I'm not sure if it's there or not. I mean, we'll find out pretty quick. But, yeah, this game is definitely centralized around Doctor Strange, which is interesting. It really is just because, like you said, Doctor Strange is on the topper. and Dr. Strange that shot the disc. I'm 100% positive at this point. Now that we've talked it out, that was a major focal point to the foundation of this build. And I mean, it makes a lot of sense too. I mean, there's a lot of nuance in that area. The fact that you have something lifting up like a portal, which is something that Dr. Strange would do. The fact that you have what looks like a little light above it to where you have your add-a-ball, you have your spot Iron Man shot. and I think there's, it might even be an extra ball on that target as well. It kind of gives you an idea that that's the sanctum. And, Tom, there's another spot in there. I don't know if you noticed this. This is the comic book fan coming out on me here. And I'm so damn happy that Zombie Yeti did this. An awesome nuance, if you really look at the upper flipper area, right, you'll notice on the play field they got cars on a street, right? Yes. So the sanctum legitimately is setting on the correct street corner. that it would set in the comics. Like that's where it sets there on a corner of a street. And it's, I mean, that's exactly what it does. So I really like that little nuance to where you legitimately feel like then, like world under glass, this is the sanctum area. I really do like that. Yeah. You know, another place possibly for starting modes could be that that shot to the arc reactor. I know that's, it looks like it's mainly for the multiball, but yeah. Who knows at this point, but I'd like to know what all the power-ups do. And, I mean, there's definitely a lot going on here, it looks like, but I'm excited to play it. I can tell you that much. I feel you there. Let's go ahead and talk about that a little bit then in terms of what we're seeing on the play field. And I'll get this out of the way right now. One nuance that I really do like is the fact that the font, if you're a comic book fan, you'll realize pretty quick the font matches up classically with a lot of the major storylines in the comics itself. like the Thanos font matches up the Thor font matches up Doctor Strange matches up Iron Man matches up the Avengers matches up so when you start really digging into the lore they've really paid a lot of respect to that and for me as a fan of not only just pinball but of comics in general I honestly feel like they have totally Like, Zombie Yeti has knocked this out of the freaking park. His artwork is amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. And to be able to pull from that many different sources, and you use that many different sources of inspiration, because you can tell it's there just by the font alone. It matches up with a lot of it. I mean, that is amazing. Like, the artwork, bar none, it's some of the most amazing stuff I've ever seen. I mean, I am a huge Marvel fan, so therefore this is legitimately my favorite art on a pinball machine of all time. Like, I would seriously want to buy a play field and put it up on the wall. I'm usually not that type of guy, but I'm willing to be that type of guy now. I mean, it's just awesome. But looking through all that, then you were mentioning the power-ups, right? my theory is is that those power-ups could possibly mean that your character like so i want to think that possibly that might mean that you play as a certain character and you might not have to pick that character starting out but i think the modes might be based on you using a character to retrieve that particular stone sure that could be it to where the avengers aren't necessarily all assembled yet because they have to go in all different directions anyways. I keep saying stone. In this game, it's the gem which they're paying homage or whatever you want to call it to the old school comics. It all started out, I'll get off track a little bit, but let's get everybody caught up. The soul gems, that's what they were called at the beginning. They weren't given names but the soul gems. Eventually, it became the rest of the gems, the infinity gems eventually. Then it became the stone. So I really do like that if you look in the middle of the play field, you see Battle of Thanos, you see Soul Gem, and Black Order. So that leads me to believe that Soul Gem is definitely a major part of this, which is a direct pull again from the comics. And we'll touch base on that mode here pretty quick as well. But seeing the power-ups, I think off the top of my head that that either means that you can play as that particular hero, and maybe that might give you, when you hit so many shots, maybe that might light it up to give you an actual power-up that could be, you know, a 2X shot with it. It could be that the power-up is simply a jackpot. I mean, it could be that as well. I mean, there's a lot of things that they could do with that. There's no telling. I mean, what do you think it could be? It's hard to say what's going on in the mind of Keith Elwin, but... um maybe you gotta collect maybe the more avengers you collect the uh you know and go after a gem or something uh um you know it increases your score it it's hard to say because obviously obviously collecting the gem is a focus and then the obviously the the main avengers are a focus I'm trying to see here so I'm looking at the six inserts on the bottom here you got Hulk Iron Man, Captain America, looks like Black Widow I think Thor and then Black Panther and they all have power ups so I wonder if those are related somehow I mean it could be one of those things where maybe the power up just means you got halfway through the mode kind of like Guardians was and then when you get to the end of the mode maybe it's collected gem it could be that then one of those mini wizard modes could be if you got halfway through all the modes even if you haven't collected anything I mean because that's kind of the way that they did with uh or the elwynn did with maiden also to where you could still get to a mini wizard mode just by playing the modes and not necessarily finishing the modes so i i could see that being something that he would do with this game as well so what is the eye of agamotto is that am i saying that right yeah yeah so that's basically from the comics that's just a mystical item that dr strange uses. So if you've watched it in the movies, MCU, it's not actually an infinity gem or anything like that. It comes from another sorcerer that like, without going too deep into it, he was long thought dead His name was Agamotto And they basically use this to be able to do like interdimensional travel it just like this huge thing to where it very powerful and then come to find out plot twist Agamotto wasn actually dead and yeah it was this whole ordeal and yeah spoiler alert yeah spoiler alert for all you nerds out there like me that are going to go through all this stuff but I mean I don't know I I notice, though, that it has an insert for that, so it makes me wonder, will they actually have that character on here? He may not be on the play field, but maybe that's like another little mode that Doctor Strange has to go find it or something. I wouldn't think that they would put that on the play field as an insert, and you'll notice it's actually right under the N on Strange on the play field. And so I don't think that they would have that insert there if it didn't mean something. So I'm curious to know how that plays. Maybe that might be some type of mode. Well, and like you were saying, the Hawkeye doesn't, you know, that could be some kind of added mode in there. Chart-treating mode. Right. And I noticed Captain Marvel, the ramp there doesn't have any type of insert related to her. So it's just, you know, there's an arrow and it looks like some kind of gem or ball insert below it. So obviously she's going to play some part in the game and, you know, not related to the six Avengers on the play field there. Yeah, and I can't quite make out what that is inside those inserts and those diamond inserts. But if you notice, the diamonds are actually, or I'm calling them diamonds, just the diamond inserts, are littered throughout the game. Like there's one right above Hulk. There's one above Captain America. There's one below Black Widow on that center ramp, one by Captain Marvel, and then one on the Black Panther shot. There's one pointed to the drop targets too. Right, exactly. Yeah, one right by Bruce Banner as well. So I'm curious to see how that plays in, too, because that's totally separate than the little triangle inserts that they also have on Hulk, Arc Reactor, the middle. Actually, they have the triangles on pretty much everything, don't they? Yeah. Now I'm looking, yeah. So, I mean, that's curious because those inserts show up on Captain America, Black Widow, the Infinity Gauntlet, the Inner Orbit. the Captain Marvel shot and the Black Panther shot as well. That's curious. I mean, it's got to play something into it because what's also interesting on it is there's a, at the mystery scoop, right? You can change the gems too. There's an insert for that as well. Okay. So. So I'm wondering if those diamond inserts are the gems and they're probably RGB lights that change color depending on what gem you have. It could be. If I had to run a guess, and this is assuming that they just went and bolts to the wall on this, I would have to think that each gem directly affects how your mode plays out. That maybe you can still play a mode, but the gems themselves, whatever gem you have active during a mode, gives you some type of buff, or maybe even a nerf if Thanos has it. I could see that being something. So that's an extra layer, that you're going to play your modes regardless, but depending on what gem you bring into that mode, that might alter it as they do in the comics. What do you think about that? How many people are going to watch the Jack Danger stream? I think a lot. I think a lot. On the Marvel channel. Well, to be fair, Marvel doesn't really have a huge following on Twitch. Sure. They really don't. So I would have personally, I don't like that they're showing it on Twitch. I would have much rather them see it, put it on their YouTube, because on their YouTube, millions. Like, they have a huge, huge following. Much, yeah, much larger on. Now, I'm not saying they'll obviously get a couple thousand people watching. and they're going to be on front page, which will give eyeballs there, which I'm glad that they're doing it. I'm glad that Stern is sending people over, however they're doing it, remotely or whatever. So hopefully Jack does well on that and the team does well on that because you really want to get this pin out to everybody. But yeah, I'm kind of surprised that they're doing that on Twitch just because their YouTube would draw so many more eyeballs. So that's kind of a curious thing. But that being said, there might, I mean, there could be a reason for that because technically Jack would not be able to do a stream on YouTube since he's a partner on Twitch. He wouldn't be able to play a game on YouTube because that would directly go against his terms of service as a partner. And the only reason why I know that for a fact, because I have the same exact contract. The only way that you can go live on YouTube is if you're just chatting. Like right now, if you and me are doing this, I'd be fine. if I got up and I'm playing a game and I'm streaming that, not so much. Wouldn't be fine. And that just because you're a partner, if you were an affiliate, you could, you could do it. Correct. Yeah. Yep. Fair game. So I, I'm really, I'm really surprised that they are not showing that. So I just, I was looking at the play field and I just noticed something I hadn't noticed before. There is a rollover that says skill shot. Oh yeah. Right up the middle. Yeah. Yeah. I did not notice that before. So, Yep, and for those scoring at home, it's between the middle ramp and the infinity gauntlet ramp. If you look there, it's chilling right there. So, yeah, it's just like a short plunge. You go into there. Now, what happens behind there, I don't know. I don't know if the ball gets – Like you go right into the pops. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what I was thinking, but to me, that's kind of an odd spot for it to go to. I mean, typically, your skill shots will go into the pops, But what I'm looking at is, is just the way that that could feed back down. That it's kind of, it's kind of a little bit of an odd spot. I'm curious to see where exactly that would hang up at. But at the same time though, you notice that there's a gate right there too. So I'm wondering if you try to short plunge it and you don't get past that gate, is there an opening right there to where it'll still fall down? Or will it come all the way back to the shooter lane? you kind of see where i'm talking about yep i see it i don't know how that'll work what i do know is is that area is pretty much genius as well and i mean we can we kind of touch base you know circling back going yeah yeah circling back i mean especially i mean when we talk about the wire forms and all that too you can definitely tell the right ramp with the captain Marvel that is not in the pro, right? You can tell this is a loops back at the center there and it loops back to. Yeah, no, no doubt in my mind, that's a foundational piece as well because the other wire forms work around that as well. And there's two separate areas dealing with the, uh, the scoop buck going back and returning to the, uh, right flipper. and then also the Infinity Gauntlet ramp going through the Captain Marvel ramp I mean it almost looks like a roller coaster you know But they also too I like how they have that little plastic protector going around the Captain Marvel too to prevent air balls and all that. They got on that quick. I'm glad to see that. So I'm not expecting many air balls or even balls to get hung up up there. That looks like that that could be smooth. The only area that I'm kind of concerned about that I'm wondering will this work the way it's intended is the Avengers Tower. that magnet going up top because we know that Stern has struggled in the past, you know, especially with Stranger Things and just magnets of, you know, doing what that's supposed to do. It looks cool on the videos and I'm sure it'll be badass if it works properly. I'm just, I'm hoping that it will because obviously if that doesn't work right, then that nullifies not only an entire area, it nullifies a multiball as well. So I think that that's a very important mech to the game as well. Yeah. Where is, so, you know, you have right next to the gauntlet shot, you have the kind of the, I guess I'd call it an inner loop from the upper flipper. Where is that going? Is that going directly back into the pops or is that going up the skill shot ramp? That goes back up the ramp, yep, back up, and then it goes back to your O, yep, your right flipper. So what makes it really interesting is the fact that there's actually two separate areas on the right end lane in which a shot can return. I honestly don't remember a pin that's done that before. I mean, it might have been done, but I'm trying to think off the top of my head, and I seriously can't think of another pin in which it has two separate returns in the same end lane. Because what's interesting is one will definitely go over the switch in the end lane, but the one from the buck, the mystery shot, it won't. But what I really love about it, yeah, and I cannot remember any other game that had two separate returns to the same end lane for a flipper. When people are talking about innovation, I mean, there's plenty here. That right there, that's different. I didn't even realize that. I didn't look that closely into it. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, yeah. And it makes it to where – You don't get that on the pro model, obviously, because you don't have that Captain Marvel ramp. Correct, correct. And so, I mean, that's pretty cool as well that you can basically do just different things then. I mean, that alters the way that you can approach your pin. That alters the way you can sequence your shots. That alters your timing as well because the ball is dropping in a totally different spot. You know, and to me, that's really outstanding. And I haven't really heard too many people talk about that, but that's a little nuance that I can definitely appreciate. And that's kind of how you know that something like that, that definitely the disc and the Captain Marvel thing, I firmly believe those are foundational pieces to his entire design. Yeah. People that are complaining that the MSRP went up 100 bucks, there are one, two, three, four, was there five wire forms on this game? and five metal ramps if you count the Iron Man and the skill shot. At the very least, there's four and a half ramps on this game. Yeah. That's what I was talking about on a podcast the other day. I'm like, if you compare this to all other pins, I mean, it's not close. It's just one of those deals that he's just head and shoulders above people, and it's definitely an outstanding pin. So I'm trying to look through it as well. Subway? Yeah, the Subway works as well. I mean, when we talk about innovation too, because I've seen people discussing on forums and on Facebook pages and everything, they're wanting to know, okay, when's the next big innovation? When's this? When's that? And there's a lot of people that want to see mechs as innovation. And I'm a firm believer that I personally think the way pinball is today, in terms of all the wires and everything, anything that has been done mech-wise has already been done. Like, I don't think anything else mech-wise can be invented based off what we have today. The only new mech feature that I can think of that would be totally revolutionary is if they were able to make things go wireless on the playfield. That would allow for a certain modularity during a game. Like, say your upper playfield could totally just flip, where now you're up, you know, a flipper switches to the other side and your targets can switch to the other side, like it rotates around and it changes the geometry. I could see that being something in the future, but that requires a different, different underbelly to the, to the game. So all the materials just went way up. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we'll get on that here in just a few. That's hilarious. But yeah, judging this though, if you honestly, if you are a fan of pinball and you appreciate shots, you will see the innovation just based off the shots. The fact that we have a upper flipper that can be repeated over and over and over again on a ramp, I don't think I've seen that before. The fact that there's a ramp that can be hit from three separate flippers, haven't seen that before. The fact that there's two separate returns to a flipper, if that's been done before, I can't think of it off the top of my head when the last time that even happened. So that's interesting as well. I mean, there's a lot going on, and that's just talking about just shot geometry and the ball returning back to you. And what's magnificent about this particular layout and design, all these shots are really, really designed to return back to your flippers. That's what I like. It's aimed for you to play with control, but it gives you control as well. It rewards you for hitting those shots because you're going to get a ball back to the flipper. And that's so important. And that was one of my critiques of Raza that really bugged me, that even if you hit the ramp, right, the return wasn't even into the end lane. It just dropped it right at the sling. And I'm like, you know, that's kind of a kick in the nuts right there. But this gives you control. There's different areas that you can hit it in. you can park it at and it'll give it right back to you at the flipper like you hit the mystery scoop where's it coming back to a flipper right you know right you know you hit the uh the ramp to start something the uh with your upper flipper or anything it gives you that post real quick gives you control you know it's everything just flows back and returns really well and i really like that i think that's a great nuance to this game i gotta do a time out here travis i gotta order lunch or my wife's gonna kill me uh-oh uh-oh well that's all right i think we've done about all we could do we reached the 30 minute 30 minute thing so tom's gonna go get lunch for his wife and i'm gonna wrap up wrap up the podcast because i need to get lunch as well but thank you guys so much for listening tom order lunch for your wife so you don't have to sleep on the couch and my kids and myself but well yeah well you're you're last you're last just do what you need to do so you can get your len that's right thank you so much for joining buddy i'll talk to you soon thanks