Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 44 - Expo 2023 Recap Fun!

The Pinball Network·video·2h 19m·analyzed·Oct 28, 2023

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Triple Drain recaps Expo 2023, tournaments, and game room updates amid moving chaos.

Summary

Triple Drain Podcast Episode 44 recaps Expo 2023, Super Series, and the Stern Pro Circuit tournament. Hosts Joel, Travis, and Tom discuss game room updates (Cactus Canyon, Labyrinth, Bond), tournament performances, streaming/commentating experiences, and behind-the-scenes stories from Expo including a chaotic BMW rental incident at the Stern factory tour.

Key Claims

Raymond Davidson won the UK Open Stern Pro Circuit
high confidence · Travis mentioned congratulating Raymond Davidson for winning the UK open Stern pro circuit
Travis placed fourth in Super Series main event
high confidence · Travis stated 'I took fourth in the uh main' at Super Series
Max Senack won the Super Series (age 25+ division)
high confidence · Joel said 'I think Max uh Max won it' and Travis confirmed 'Max is a great player'
Stern Pro Circuit tournament format changed to top 32 with double buys for top 6
high confidence · Travis described 'the top 32 the top six I believe got double buys and then the next group down got single buys'
Jared won the Stern Pro Circuit Championship tournament
high confidence · Joel stated 'the final two were to Young it was it was esher and Jared and Jared ended up winning it'
Cactus Canyon has strong appeal with young female demographic (ages 6-10)
high confidence · Joel mentioned a 9-year-old girl playing Cactus Canyon daily and his wife and daughter also playing it
Bond Pro tournament edition experienced ball-trap issues with magnet during Expo tournament
high confidence · Tom detailed multiple incidents where balls got trapped behind Bond magnet during multiball, affecting his gameplay in qualifying and playoffs
Stern factory has two production lines with one currently being set up
high confidence · Joel reported from factory tour 'they only had one line going at the time the other line is being set up'
Keith Illen competed in Stern Pro Circuit despite a toe/foot injury
high confidence · Tom mentioned 'he like fell and he had a hurt foot a hurt toe or something' and 'he could barely stand on it put pressure on it while he's playing'

Notable Quotes

“there are people that are like Joel why do they give you so much crap on Cactus Canyon Cactus Canyon is a great game I own you know they're like the supporters out there are like thank you for being a voice to the people that like Cactus Canyon it's no Pulp Fiction so for the two of you that have your own opinions on Cactus Canyon there's dozens of us okay that like it”
Joel@ 5:07 — Reflects ongoing community divide over Cactus Canyon reception; Joel defending the game and its players
“commentating Bond and watching Bond and listening uh there was a few different times I comment uh commentated but like Raymond dson was sitting next to me one time Dalton was s next to me one time Eric Stone you know all guys that know the rules very well Tom was sitting next to me um Robert buyers Rober I would just like to say it felt like the Twilight Zone driving down a highway”
Tom @ mid — Describes the experience of commentating Bond with elite-level rules experts; positive commentary experience
“I drove up to Expo on Wednesday and so I was actually listening to the stream while driving so I couldn't watch it but it was interesting inter in like listening to pinball almost kind of a play byplay”
Joel@ 25:52 — Unique perspective on consuming competitive pinball tournament content via audio
“I put up a pretty strong 8,500 I think on one ball it was really really strong and somehow it held”
Travis@ 22:08 — Travis's tiebreaker score on Paragon in Classics tournament
“there's a little graphic showing the the seats every seat on that graphic was red except for mine which was green CU I did nothing I just sat there”
Joel@ 31:35 — Humorous climax of the BMW seat incident story at Stern factory tour

Entities

JoelpersonTravisperson Tomperson Raymond Davidsonperson JaredpersonMax SenackpersonNeil McCraepersonKeith Illenperson

Signals

?
competitive_signal: Multiple tournaments recap: UK Open (Raymond Davidson winner), Super Series (Max Senack winner, Travis 4th place), Stern Pro Circuit (Jared winner, top 32 format with double buys for top 6)
high · Explicit tournament results stated by hosts; Raymond Davidson UK Open win, Max Senack Super Series, Jared Stern Pro Circuit
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product_concern: Bond Pro experienced ball-trap issues during multiball where balls became stuck behind magnet, causing game malfunction and affecting tournament outcomes (Tom experienced issues in qualifying and playoffs)
high · Tom detailed multiple incidents: 'ball trapped behind him and then the game doesn't realize the ball is trapped', TD intervention required, trough malfunction on second occurrence
?
code_update: Bond code has progressed significantly from earlier versions; Tom noted mini wizard modes, smart bombs/missiles, and improved gameplay depth since initial code release
high · Tom stated: 'commentating Bond and watching Bond and listening uh there was a few different times... watching that game now and seeing how much the code has progressed from when I first got it to stream to now is night and day'
?
gameplay_signal: Cactus Canyon shows strong appeal with young players (6-10 years old female demographic); described as Friends and Family test success; daily play from neighbor's 9-year-old daughter
high · Joel: 'my daughter has made friends with girls down the road and one of the girls who's like nine she keeps like almost daily is coming down here and what does she play she plays Cactus Canyon'
?

Topics

Expo 2023 tournament recap and factory tourprimarySuper Series multi-day tournamentprimaryStern Pro Circuit Championship format and resultsprimaryCactus Canyon community reception and gameplay appealprimaryBond Pro tournament performance and code issuesprimaryTournament commentating experience and techniquessecondaryGame room updates and collection expansionsecondaryCompetitive pinball player rankings and metasecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.78)— Overall enthusiastic and celebratory tone discussing tournaments, games, and community experiences. Affection for the pinball community evident. Some self-deprecating humor and light roasting of cast members adds levity. Frustration with Bond technical issues is brief and quickly moves to appreciation of code improvements. The chaotic BMW story is recounted with humor and fondness toward Neil McCrae despite the mishap.

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

[Music] the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right everybody just just buckle up it's going to be a mess today um I don't do you know do you realize where you're setting your coffee cup Travis like dead in front of me so Travis is moving [ __ ] yes did it again yes Travis is in the process of moving so he is in his new house he went back to his old house to record and they already turned off his internet so Travis is recording on his phone so if his video goes out it's either a his phone died but he hasn't plugged into a battery pack or B he's just it's gonna get knocked over by a dog or we're just gonna stare at a coffee cup because I bet he's gonna do it at least 10 times is amazing my table is literally this wide all right I only have so much real estate to work with right now yeah need a bigger table tell Monica your tables are too small I'll try holy crap Joel has a Cactus Canyon yeah yeah man and then uh and then Tom David Bowie behind you what is that I do you know we had so much to talk about um Tom also put in a new hard drive into his computer right before he started recording so guaranteed Hardware failure coming from there as well so we're just going to see what's going on but way with all that aside Tom how you feeling you ready you ready for this no no Perfect all right Travis are you and your dog ready for this yeah we're good let's do it all right here we go we're three guys who like the talking B so we came up with a CL our name we're Jo and Travis talk and we call ourselves triple triple triple triple triple wonderful so we kind of have an extra ball what's your dog's name there Travis uh his name is CJ CJ got it golden retriever it's a beautiful golden retriever right there and now everybody's going to watch the Youtube video because we finally have something worth looking at oh that's a cool looking dog um all right so what's the goal for today the goal for the day is really uh Expo we we all went to Expo we spent well there was um no we can go a little bit before that you had Super Series you had Super Series and then there was the stern pro circuit final and then there was Expo not only the show but also the tournament we got a bunch of games to talk about but before we talking about all that good stuff real quick game room updates so I'll go first if you look behind me Cactus Canyon Cactus Canyon's finally here it's finally set up um I got that from Zack flipping out um love it love the game if you guys notice I have the Brian Al Allen um alternative artwork um worked with him on that I'm love it I love it I think it makes the game feel a little more modern um not that the old artwork is bad I just prefer this artwork and then um I got the art blades as well and then evil pinball even evil pinball West out of um Evansville Indiana he hooked me up with um these side um not blades but like um side armor that look like guns they actually look really really cool um so this is the se+ I actually prefer the look of the stainless um metal on the game over the powdercoated gun metal so love the love all that so I'm already starting to mod that out love the game I already love it people mock friends and family but it's already a hit I mean my wife was playing it the other day we my sister my sister wow my daughter has made friends with girls down the road and one of the girls who's like nine she keeps like almost daily is coming down here and what does she play she plays Cactus Canyon that's like she's all in on it just because hitting that guy and seeing his hat pop up so the friends and family check that box boom love it um another game room update we're going to talk a lot more about that is right there the 9-year-old female demographic 9-year-old female demographic killing it killing I I will say you know I better Toy Story 4 maybe I don't know you know I don't know we'll see I'll sell it and I'll see how mad she gets you know just like your twins which game's going to be better for the young girl demographic the six to 10y Old you know I just need to wait for a fist pump you know that's the that's what I need that's what we're waiting on uh oh Tom's drinking a Mountain Dew dude this is this this is going to be a good episode I got te here too oh oh doubling up um David Bowie is here David Bowie is here I have a labyrinth we're going to talk more about that but I have one here I streamed it the other night it's great so we will definitely talk about more you can see that in the background what I wanted to say is I had multiple people come up to me at Expo and it was awesome it was awesome talking to people that are fans of the show but believe it or not there are people that are like Joel why do they give you so much crap on Cactus Canyon Cactus Canyon is a great game I own you know they're like the supporters out there are like thank you for being a voice to the people that like Cactus Canyon it's no Pulp Fiction so for the two of you that have your own opinions on Cactus Canyon there's dozens of us okay that like it I love Cactus Canon people keep buying it I love it it's my favorite game ever any game that sells it's awesome any game that's that's very diplomatic of you it well it just comes down to like how many times you're gonna play it I've just played it so much and just you know it's same Z's over and over again you too well you could say that about any game that you want you know so that's just how it is did you guys hear my phone just like do what he's gonna be getting text he's gonna look at this is gonna be if anybody's watching the YouTube he looks like an idiot he's like staring in cuz you're so have my glasses on and my dog is attacking me right say I saw come up there this is going to be so great all right so that's my game room updates uh Travis brand new house he has a basement now um so your recording studio yes your your recording studio right now is a couch and a tiny table um I mean that that could go one or two ways Joel yeah for sure and and um but your basement looks very large and I saw I saw pinball machines down there you finally have all of your games in one area so I'm excited to see uh once you get all that set up you'll have to we'll have tost actually that was only half my collection believe it or not oh near Tom level yeah getting closer until you have another location you know you have to have the basement with all the games but then you also have the other location of the games the backup loation Tom's got the backup location it's true and nobody knows where Tom is except for a select few yeah him owning District 82 that's a lot of games yeah I can't wait till the world ends because I'm just going to stay down here he'll be good you'll be good Tom do you have any updates at all in your collection or new games in the last few weeks um I have zero new games Joel zero new games because you you bought a lot of them but I do have a new game coming next week oh do you want to share what that is no oh okay cool good talk is it a used game or a new in box game it's it's used I'm getting a bon Pro again oh it's coming back it's coming back after everybody destroyed me on it at Expo I just decided I need more time on it so it's um I think the code is so much better than it was I will say um I believe it or not did a little bit of commentating during the Expo stream um the tournament and loved every bit of it and I will say commentating Bond and watching Bond and listening uh there was a few different times I comment uh commentated but like Raymond dson was sitting next to me one time Dalton was s next to me one time Eric Stone you know all guys that know the rules very well Tom was sitting next to me um Robert buyers Rober I would just like to say it felt like the Twilight Zone driving down a highway and listening to that when you can hear Eric Stone yeah in the booth with Joel and Joel's explaining a rule I was like what is happening right now I I knew venom more than most the people I was commentating with it made me very happy it made me very happy yes it I love commentating we'll talk about this later Travis but he was actually talking to tan about Elton John rules I saw the pictures while I was playing the game and I'm just sitting there like what is going on what is this is this real one guy wins one game of Labyrinth all of a sudden he's just like you know just floating and levitating above all the pins and telling everybody yeah just hit that shot just hit that shot the new it's the new me Joel gets in the Booth right yeah and all of a sudden everybody in in that room is coming over and drawing on my touchcreen oh it's the best like so so like the whole stream is like Joel and Raymond and Byers just like all over the place and the viewers loved nobody can see where the ball is the viewers loved it just off to the side Tom you were just like I couldn't do anything he kept reaching in and clearing way too far away he kept clear Tom would like walk by and and so here's Robert Byer showing the six-way combo and iron maen so it's like wooo and he's going and Tom's like he's only on combo 4 and Tom's like clear like he just he just wanted it cleared but yes we we will talk about it more but commentating was awesome Tom with Fox Cities pinball has an incredible um setup for streaming tournament pinball one of which is a touchscreen so having the telestrator to be able to like visually show the shots we're talking about I personally found it very useful and there are times that I watch stream that I wish you know as the commentators are describing it's like well what he needs to do is he needs to do this and this and I'm thinking like well show me show me where that shot is like show you got the telestrator touch it you know but um anyways what I was saying was commentating Bond watching that game now and seeing how much the code has progressed from when I first got it to stream to now is night and day like it really looks so much more fun and and I I learned there's like a mini wizard mode where it's what if you complete one henchman one villain one Q mode or maybe it's do both multiballs it's like you just have to do four things and boom you're in a it's like little stuff like that that can carry you through that game I'm it's it's and then there's like smart missiles now or smart bombs what's up Tom but screw the premium I'm telling you right now that game effed me three times during the tournament twice in qualifying twice and then once once in playoffs I'm gonna guess yeah without him saying it I'm gonna guess it probably has something to do with Bond on the wand twice on that the other time was the buck so so on stream Dalton was in multiball playing eer and one of the balls came out of the the vck and went straight down what's that the rocket lock thing no no the car the car on the right side so the ball you hit in the scoop the ball bounces out of the car and it's supposed to return to your right flipper well I'm sitting there playing it you know single ball play I'm like I'll hit this shot and then uh yeah the I just see the ball like just come out and just take a nice ramp down the car into the outlane and the exact same thing happened to Dalton but he was in multiball and he actually like double drained versus but that's but that features on both the pro and premium it is so why do you hate the premium because it happened on the premium oh so it wasn't actually a it wasn't the premium feature it was just a premium G okay but twice twice I was in multiball and the ball fell off the magnet on bond it might have been induced by me I might have hit the lockdown bar button but it got trapped be behind him and then the game doesn't realize the ball is trapped behind him so the first time uh I the TD came over hi Jared and um basically was like he did the he did the absolute right thing knew what I what he was going to do so he took both the balls put them in the trough because on Sterns they have a feature where you get a coin door ball saer so he's like oh we'll put him in the trough and you know we'll we'll close the coin door he'll shoot the balls out you'll still be a multiball I go yep okay so he puts him in the trough closes the door I'm ready to go I see the ball save blinking for like five seconds no balls come out and then my my game ends I'm like nice what the hell just happened and then the same thing happened to me in my last game except I pleaded with the TDS to put them on my flippers mhm because of the situation I had before they did it worked but anyways so by that time it was 10 minutes later and I was already like yeah out of rhythm so the trough thing is that like a code issue you assume with Bond specifically or just maybe that game think so I would think so I would you know unfortunately in multiball you can't really the game can't really discern that like there's ball trapped when there's two balls on the Playfield so I had no idea was trapped behind the bond uh on a wand but my thing is I thought they should disable that for the tournament uh but I don't know if you can in the code like I don't know if it's a feature that can actually be disabled I want to say that they tried at the stern pro circuit Championship but I don't know if they were successful in doing that or not we were having issues with it there also okay okay so well something for the stern coders to look at yeah yeah but cool well all right so we've got so much we got so much to cover let's just go chronologically so let's back up all the way to Super Series Super Series I wasn't there both of you guys were actually we'll have to back up just one more thing because we forgot to talk about it so we got to say congratulations to Raymond Davidson for winning the UK open Stern proit whoops we we briefly talked about it for like 10 seconds and we're like [ __ ] we totally forgot to talk about it but yeah so I went to Robert Englunds this is like three weeks ago now maybe four weeks ago it was awesome a lot of fun Neil McCrae puts on a excellent uh event so if anybody else is thinking from the US or Canada thinking about going out there highly recommend it I'm going to try get out there next year and I know a bunch of other people are going to try to get out there so games played a lot of fun the location was fun it was fun just being around London getting to see the different sights and sounds and year and plus to get to play against the European players as well there's a lot of outstanding players over there of course and to get to meet a lot of people over in Robert Englunds that actually listen to the show and absolutely hate Joel which is just awesome that made me love Robert Englunds even more so yeah it's it's a cool place I'm just kidding they they didn't hate you they just they're team Travis and talk so the same way you know people in Chicago are team Joel for whatever reason but you know so it's fine it's it's all good I have a team yeah oh yeah big fan Tom everybody loves Tom I don't know what it is I've not heard somebody say one bad word about you me bad [ __ ] all the time Joel they absolutely hate Tom yeah you're like the freaking what would it be what what would Tom's equivalent be for the Beatles would he be our Ringo our Paul I don't know which one would he be what's the more popular one Taylor Swift y he'd be our Taylor Swift okay that's good there okay so UK open yes congrats R way to crush that uh sorry we forgot it last time um but yeah so then we get to um super series Super Series so super series was a multiple Day event it was yes I know we watched or I tried to watch some of it from afar um I don't know I'm gonna I'm going to let you guys recap that if there's anything that it was tiring okay solid solid Travis how did you play uh Super Series um memorable yeah oh yeah I took fourth in the uh main I'm trying to think of all the other ones I honestly don't remember many third in the classics Fair strike yeah Tom did do that nice I think I know I didn't Place top eight in anything else because I would have got money then but I think I dropped I dropped one or two events too to to my leg one event for sure yeah yeah because I want to stay off my legs because for those don't know I've had multiple knee surgeries so standing up all day long my knees will just absolutely blow up so yeah had to kind of kind of hold back but it's fun like I I enjoy going to different venues and different events in which I can play a lot of tournaments at once but it's one of those things that I can only do that every so often if I try to do that like once a quarter it's just my legs are just completely gone but it's fun to do though to get in four to six tournaments and try to play as much pinball as possible and plus I enjoy I enjoy being able to play a modern game than a classic game and kind of go back and forth I know some people it kind of gets old a little bit for some people to do and I know District A2 is kind of known to be Classics heavy but at the same time I like being able to try to test my skills in terms of making adjustments and everything because some games there I just get absolutely destroyed other games I feel like I got a decent chance at so I mean it makes for a good competitive area with how I like to play Pinball if that makes sense but I do look forward to the time when District 82 decides to do more moderns as well I think that'll be fun but at the same time though these 20 year olds they're winning everything anyways they they they don't have to keep winning up there you know yeah I think Max uh Max won it I can't pronounce his last ma senac senac okay yeah and he played excellent and I know he's not he's not 21 he's a little bit older than 21 so score one for the uh senior division 25 division 25 and yeah I've lowered it to 25 yeah Max is a great player um he doesn't come to District 82 a lot but when he does you know watch out yeah nice um the real question I'm assuming all the listeners are wondering is how did the world-renown world famous volley go we it was uh it was Carlos Andy Bagwell and I in the booth for that and we had a little bit of a good time commentating that yeah uh what was it Andy had strong opinions on the plunge if you plunged in one particular way where the ball would he would go bounce bounce out he knew immediately that person has no chance so he was like striking people out on the monitor as soon as they plunge he's like nope he's like like just like gave up on him like nope n it was it was very entertaining but um yeah volley hype volley hype is real um for people that don't know it's a $5 buyin tournament where it's one ball highest score wins the pot but you can buy back in for 20 bucks if you want another go at it so any idea what the what the winner ended up winning like roughly how much I want it was probably close to 200 bucks maybe even more than that but it was a it was a lot for one ball one game of volley an old em funny I I can't remember who won off the top of my head but I remember they came in at they were like the very last person and boom and then four and they they blew it up it was like 60,000 I want to say it was Cody web but it could be wrong um but then uh like four people threw in 20 bucks I'm like like that's insanee like to try again too rich for my blood $20 y 20 bucks to try to get 60,000 on volley with one ball it's not happening yeah no well that's awesome well um yeah I mean I know Super Series was like almost a weekl long event is there anything else to to say about that or I think well we started it I guess technically on a Tuesday right Tom is when it started I mean not the Super Series itself technically yeah there was there was Tilton Tuesday and then there was a uh uh Classics kickoff on Wednesday night which was an all classics tournament yeah which had a finals uh which was fun I it was fun I barely made the I I didn't make the cut off I was like two points away I think you made it right you had a tiebreaker that's where I had that awesome tiebreaker on Paragon yeah was fantastic one ball tiebreaker Joel I think there was eight of us for and what did you put up on that Travis I put up a pretty strong 8,500 I think on one ball it was really really strong and somehow it held I don't know nice nice Joel it's not supposed to hold it's pretty bad Joel yeah no I I'm getting that I can read in into the sarcasm but it's Paragon it's Paragon it it is Paragon it's no bad girls but it's Paragon double z um somebody recently had a double zero ball they're trying to step in on your on your territory I don't know if it's like car or Raymond or somebody was yeah I had one yeah there you go we had somebody at one of our games uh at District 82 on one of the solid States I think they legitimately scored 20 points and they and it was funny after they did it because I was in a group with them and this happened twice but one time somebody actually said something they said something like well at least it's no zeros I was just like yeah that is true yeah class is half full well cool well awesome well Super Series happened and then I Know Travis you drove all the way home you bought a new house and then turned around and drove back because you yeah you were in the stern pro circuit tournament so this is for last year what was it top 24 or how many I think it was the top 32 top 32 how they do it now yeah they changed the format around this year but they've been changing the format around continuously so if you watched it on I guess it would be Stern's YouTube channel is what they live stream but for last year's event they pre-taped it so they taped it before Expo and they've been releasing it in I guess episodic content or in episodes to where it was a ladder format so this year they didn't do it like that instead it was the top 32 the top six I believe got double buys and then the next group down got single buys and then everybody else played in the first round it was just best of three all Sterns of course all modern Sterns and Y yeah you just play from there you play like any other heads up yep y yeah I know um well shout out to Keith illen he wore a triple drain shirt he I saw that on stream so that was pretty cool um I think I talked to him at xbo I think he said it's his bad luck shirt now cuz he lost it might be but he did a lot of people realize he he had a gnarly injury during that something with his toe yeah yeah he like fell and he had a hurt foot a hurt toe or something a lot of people don't realize that yeah he could barely stand on it put pressure on it while he's playing so yeah he he went from being being a goat to being a little human there thankfully so for I guess for everybody brought back down to well it it was tough because the the Pod I was in was just insane it was him versus Colin macine in round one and then the winner would play Andre massov and then the winner would play me and then the winner of that would probably have to play eer so it's just like yeah good luck where' he go yeah and there was there was Killers everywhere though like everybody was was an excellent player to have to qualify to get to that now obviously if you travel enough and you place high enough you're gonna you're going to get there but that being said everybody there earned their way everybody played well and there was yeah I mean if you watch it of course young kids rise to the top and I think we had like I want to say it was eer and Zer in one round and then there was a uh I guess a Bowen and Eric Stone matchup and of course Colin and elwin in the first round so you got to see some cool matchups throughout I wish a lot of it would have been able to be on the stream or Le or at least record it but you know it's overall though there's some excellent play being so I drove up to Expo on Wednesday and so I was actually listening to the stream while driving so I couldn't watch it but it was interesting inter in like listening to pinball almost kind of a play byplay and you know when you hear the commentator like oh yeah you know it's like yep that Ball's gone you know it's like you can you can listen to the reactions and whatnot but um I think the final two were to Young it was it was esher and Jared and Jared ended up winning it yeah so who won did not did you not see our picture on Facebook I saw it yeah yeah yeah what was the like a competitive commentator now and you got to get your players right gotta get the names right who won the who won the uh Expo tournament that was who who do you think let's just go sure won it again I mean he is the number one player in the world he needs to be outlawed from jar owned something oh never mind I'm I'm I'm remembering the video of yeah he had his last ball and turned and like hugged AER or something it was that was like really freaking good anyways okay so Stern pro circuit he's okay yeah he does fine he's all right yeah stuit he's lucky there's ball saves in games for sure and he's lucky that he's lucky there's flippers on the game too it's not bagil or he'd be like [ __ ] out of luck he'd be in trouble didn't' still beat us so that that tournament happened um yes and I remember yeah it was cool listening to that that was pretty cool and all this happened before Expo um and then yeah you were all three of us were at Expo uh Travis was only there till th he left Friday morning early but Tom and I were there through the whole thing um he was my roommate yeah you had Travis and Monica somehow ended up bunking with Tom thanks for the invite guys you know you're having a slumber party and I got dude we heard what you did the Neil's car so we were not going to let you get around any of our you know let's address a few I got in the car with Neil and like I he hates you Joel can you believe Tom that Scott Danesi let him play on that TNA I wouldn't let Joel around anything anymore his house I actually played his his games at his house very happy his house ight we will clarify this okay we so we'll get the shenanigans out of the way we um I went to the stern Pro Tour or not tour the T the tour of the new facility T and random side comment Brian Eddy was our instructor and he says tour like Travis He says tur welcome to the uh welcome to the stern tour and as soon as we heard it I was standing next to cra Bobby Craig leans over he goes he's a store like Travis and I was like yeah he does so I don't know how to react to that but um uh did the factory tour tour it was great it was really cool the building's huge they have a ton of room for expansion from like on the business side where all the the kind of cubicles are and designer area but then the actual Factory they only had one line going at the time the other line is being set up and then it's like down the middle is where they have all their sub assemblies and they have a whole topper division the amount of wiring that they have going I mean it's it's just really impressive to see how much they're doing and how quickly they're doing it um so if you ever have the opportunity to do the tour you should definitely do it it was T anyways to get to the tour we could have ridden a bus or we were eating breakfast and Neil McCrae was there and Neil's like hey I got a big old car like let's all we can all just drive like all right so he Neil does something with BMW so he says he like just waves a card and boom he's given a BM W to drive at like in the airport before you go on well before you go on I just want the listener to realize and Tom to realize because it's freaking hilarious Neil is going to listen to this he's probably listen to this right now yeah and he's gonna lose his mind right now is just talking about the story so just picture that oh Neil's great as we listen to his story yeah we love Neil so so we go out there I say we it was it was me Neil it was Davey the guy that does all the stumbler mods uh Craig Bobby and then um Julie there was a it was a new person we had met super nice um we all go out there so there's only five of us well this BMW has a third row so they were like okay somebody needs to sit in the third row well this BMW was like to pop down a seat in the back you know normally you like pull little pull a little latch and the thing just flop like flips out of the way and you get in the back not this car this car has buttons so this is a high- tech BMW SUV so me has buttons being the tallest person all I did was I got in and I sat in the passenger seat I didn't touch nothing FR or the back the front the front right seat did nothing Craig's back there Craig starts holding down a button trying to move it Neil's on the other side touching a button to move it and then all of a sudden things sto moving like even the front seat was moving to like make room for the middle seat to move out of the way so things stopped moving so what does Craig do on the back of one of the seats is a red Loop of like oh you probably just pull this and it it moves out of the way he pulls it then everything starts freaking out like nothing nothing so Neil is kind of like frantically going back and forth he's like no no no don't touch that I just have to hit this button like there's four buttons everybody's pushing the same four buttons things are going up down there was one point where Julie was actually sitting in the third row and she's being moved by the seats back and forth I'm just sitting in the front I'm doing nothing I'm sitting in the front I look at the instrument panel and there's like warnings going off like limit switch here limit switch there there's a little graphic showing the the seats every seat on that graphic was red except for mine which was green CU I did nothing I just sat there and then I finally got out of the car and I was like there's got to be something we gave up we gave up on riding in his car that's how screwed up like everything stopped moving so we went from being able to fit five to seven people to only able to fit two none of the seats in the back were were in a position where you could even sit in a minut hold up how did you guys get to the factory I drove Dr I ended up getting my car I got my car Julie and Craig rode with me and then Neil and Davey rode with him yeah you guys just bricked Neil's car completely and left we were I was surprised with all the red and all the warnings going off I was like I bet he won't even be able to drive his car I literally went to dinner with Neil and like the front of his console was like like still had an air for like the back seat and then like the 10minute ride to Portillos was Neil just telling me the story of how Joel Just effed up his car i i l it be I get it I became the butt of the joke because I was the one person who s i mean i my seat I just sat there I just sat there with a smile on my face face yeah notice how your SE didn't mess up at all but everybody else did Green yep so uh what Neil like I said he does something with BMW so somehow he like got in contact with probably the engineer that designed it and ripped him a new one and there was some sort of button combination he had to do on his Dash to like reset the car and that was the only because pulling that red strap apparently is some like emergency something yeah like what why so who pulled the red strap correct it was me did or who did it I'm guessing Craig now I will say at some point pulling did anybody admit pulling the red strap that's know I think it's Craig Bobby I think but I think I think did he admit no he's not gonna it sounds like a Craig Bobby thing but I just wish everybody could picture Neil MC issue like frantically going back and forth like no no no don't touch I just got to hold this button like no no no I got it I just got I just got to hit this button it was it was great so for listen if any of you guys are a BMW owner that has seats that red strap yeah don't pull the red strap pull the red and do not let Bobby or Joel ever in the front of this car and like the the temperature controls were like it was like you were at Nasa trying to figure out it's insane yeah if you're in car though anything Neil threaten to pull the strap that's all I'm saying if just I hope this carries through or just anything Joel don't touch anything I I know Tom was it one of those Vehicles where you feel like if you touch the wrong thing you're going to go back to the future or something like that pretty much break the car it was nothing I was used to I this is this is German technology yes so that was fun Stern tour was fun um what else yeah well let's just let's just dive into playing games playing games um okay they had games at Expo didn't there was a lot of good games I wonder why Joel wants to talk about this no okay well we'll just we'll just work through it so first off just get it out of the way you know get it out of the way no I'm gonna start let's get your humble brag out of the way Labyrinth Labyrinth is here okay Labyrinth is here um honestly the lines for Labyrinth were incredibly long the entire show so there were some people that just kept playing it and other people that probably never played it because the line was that long had four games up and running the whole time the line was very long for it luckily on Thursday when the show opened I went straight to it and I didn't have very long of a wait um initial impressions of the game were to me when a new company comes out it's all about the build quality or the initial feel of the game you know you want to make sure the game doesn't feel cheap or it looks like they cut corners or did the company try to redesign something you know like oh we have our own flipper mechs no they're using balet Williams stuff like does the game feel like a like a normal game that that was my initial thought so I walk up to the game art looks great flip the flippers flippers feel Snappy everything about the game feels the weight everything it feels like a real game if you told me Stern made this game or if American pinball made this game I believe you like it feels like a normal game so initial Impressions good I start playing the game and I was talking to Travis the guy's name was Travis very nice guy he's one of the mechanical engineers at barrels of fun he was standing there next to me yeah the better Travis yep yeah I don't talk while he plays I don't subject myself to that anymore I can't do so while I'm waiting in line I'm asking him some of the rules and whatnot and what to do and what is cool you can kind of see in the bottom of my screen there is a screen in the bottom part of the game in the back kind of the back panel of the Playfield and um it'll tell you what to do like when you're in a mode that screen tells you exactly what to do to start a mode you have to spell labyrinth you hit white shots boom you're in a mode and then look at the screen it's great so I kind of knew what to do um and I Guns and Roses a little bit yeah yeah always having that little monitor to Hold Your Hand it's great I like I like that I I wish awesome yeah I wish more people would do that 100% like I love that Guns and Roses had it I love that Toy Story had it and then they took it out of Godfather and I remember asking Eric why and his view was like we couldn't think of a reason of to visually have it in the game they're like initially we thought like maybe like a billboard but we thought that would stand out because so they just thematically couldn't felt they couldn't put it in the game billboard would have been a great idea billboard and Godfather although were were Billboards a big deal in the movie Godfather no no it's New York there's there's Billboards everywhere yeah that makes sense right I think they were not digital though uh but you know in and El and John though they good point yeah and Elon John they have a little display on the piano that actually commun Comm unicate some stuff but anyway so um Labyrinth I played the game and I was actually like felt good I I actually completed a mode and as soon as I completed a mode Travis leans over to me and he goes hey you have an or blit hit Under The Flipper that's a 10 million point shot I don't care about points but I hit it first try lift the flipper up boom felt great I was like that was fun put up a high score but it was the beginning of the show I didn't think it was a big deal um fast forward he did the fist pum after was 37 million points is what I put up um Li it was 27 million points fast forward um this Labyrinth is actually the game I played this is the one I brought home it is still there it is still my 27 million point score is number two on the high score table so you haven't beat it uh no I did I it was number two now I beat it it's now I think what he's trying to say Tom is nobody else beat it one person beat it there's a 30 there's a 37 million point so initially apparently I just had a really good game well the reason I'm bringing this up and the reason Travis wants me to bring this up is because Travis and Monica were waiting in line and I told him a few you know a little bit of what I played Travis played the game he did not beat my score he did not beat my score so apparently Travis hates Labyrinth he hates it he thinks it's you know the game is not I wasn't playing for score shot yeah yeah it's a flipper issue and a ramp return issue even though game issue game issue all of it they need they should probably start over they should probably start over they should scrap right now so even though it wasn't a head-to-head game just to make it clear I did beat Travis I did beat Travis in Labyrinth uh fast forward to the very last night uh Tom and I actually played Labyrinth head-to-head 1: a 1: am still 1 a. and at the end of the game My score was higher than Tom's so at the end you know not only do I have a labyrinth here in the house I have absolutely crushed Thomas Tom and Trav Travis th let me tell you what I went through Labyrinth destroyed them okay I I had to drive back to [Laughter] Wisconsin come back yep had my mom in my room with your mom y with my mom who's like pretty much deaf anyway so your deaf mom is the reason you lost in that's what no I was tired I had a long day then Joel's like Joel sees me and he's like hey hey Tom Tom you gotta let's let's stand in line for for a half hour and play outon John so I'm like okay yeah yeah and then I'm like I want to check out Labyrinth not knowing this was going to be a competition oh no y he sucks yeah head to-head Tom was player one Jo sitting there like reading the rule book on Labyrinth and El John we I'm playing Elton John and Anan comes over and he's like checking out the game he's you know semi interested and Joel's like hey tan do you know the rules and he's like no like I don't work for jjp and and Joel's like well I know the rules I'll tell you everything about it perfect impression solid I mean that is me to a te but we're going to talk about La it's all based off our last episode Tom ever since we talked about understanding rules and how you just look on the Playfield and just take a few minutes now a sudden Joel he's done that he's really taken that to heart big bra yeah within a week he's given out advice unsolicited to everybody at Expo like do this just do that let me teach no so ball on this man my God I'm I'm waiting for the Labyrinth tutorials online it's Bas the beginning of my stream beginning of my stream earlier this week I just spilled it all out you know I was just spilling knowledge all I I know what to do that means doesn't mean I can do it but I know what to do um but hey okay so Labyrinth initial pressions between the two of you guys Travis you played at first you were in line with Monica I know you hate it because you lost but go ahead and um tell me your initial impressions of the game Shots Out code all that stuff okay so theme I don't care about the theme at all just to be honest it's I've watched the movie once when I was 10 it was terrifying then I tried to watch it last week or like a week and a half ago and I made it about 30 minutes into it and I just I just couldn't do it anymore like I If people love the theme cool like no issue with that I just I just can't get into it but in terms of how the flippers felt flippers felt fine uh I played on the I guess what's their top version it's not called is it only there's only one version the only difference was of the four games one of them had the topper that was the only difference so whatever version is right right there's nothing different on the Playfield or anything like that it's all external on the had a different shooter Rod a different um um display not display um back glass and a Topper otherwise it's literally exact same right so that's the one that I played and the flippers felt fine I mean somewhat mushy a little bit but that that happens that shows from time to time uh I could backhand the left ramp which was nice but just I don't know it so I didn't really pay attention to the rules too much I did some things but since I only got a chance to play it once I just wanted to see how the shots felt that was my my main goal and you know the my concern is is the Horseshoe shot so a few times when I hit it from right to left it did one of two things to me it either went right back down the middle or it actually somehow ricocheted off the guide rail to where the loop is supposed to go it did that a couple of times and so I wasn't quite sure you know if that was the intention or maybe it was just how I was hitting a shot I don't know but that shot it was a little awkward for me um you know like I said left ramp wasn't bad left orbit wasn't bad it's just I'm just not sure on the geometry of so to real quick about the Horseshoe I've actually been talking to Phil it's Phil Grimaldi is that right yeah he's the lead um rules guy on the game um I made the same comment I've had that issue with with the Horseshoe from the right it can be straight down the middle and apparently they are discussing potentially adding a ball save where if you hit the right orbit and or hit the right side of the Horseshoe and then no other switch if it drains it knows like it would yeah I would recommend that for sure because I had some issues with that and that's totally why Joel beat me on that game um so but then the other thing that kind of surprised me a little bit I the left ramp return was different cool but a little bit different what how it would just shoot the ball at you it' lift up real quick I think and shoot at you there was a couple of times that I hit a shot and there was something happening on the display and I was looking at the the display and then all of a sudden out of nowhere the ball's like shooting back at me and I was not prepared for it at all and then it was just so so that right there was you know I I hope that they code in something that kind of gives you time to prep forward or a little bit more notice or something that would let you know that's coming I'm sure there probably is something there already that lets you know it was just a little bit jarring when you're trying to look at the screen and trying to figure out okay what's happening next and all of a sudden it's kind of like it reminded me of Halloween except instead of it showing up in your inlanes it was like just like f you the ball's coming right back at you so the large the large ramp flap raising in the air is not is not enough visual for you to know ball coming I just no well cuz you're looking at the screen cuz something's happening on the screen yeah I okay so the screen is is distracting is what you're saying or you if if there's something on the screen that if there's some sort of Animation you know and you realize people are watching it I right I hit I hit the ball somewhere it was holding my ball you know obviously at this point I didn't know where it was coming so I was looking at the screen waiting for notice or something like that and then all of a sudden the ball's there right so now I know next time just whenever I hit don't pay attention to the screen at all so just watch just watch down there for it what is really neat about the layout is there's a ton of diverters in it so there are times in it where if you hit the right orbit instead of it going all the way around it'll actually pop up and then lock under the ramp and then spit it out so that's probably what you did you probably hit the right orbit the ball disappeared essentially and then it surprised you that right because right because a few times it was more delayed than other times so there was something happening on the LCD screen because it was indicating I guess an adjustment I I don't know another phase in a mode or maybe I'd started something I forget what happened I just remember looking up at it and watching it and then out of nowhere all of a sudden there's like a ball I felt it hit off my flipper and then I look back down I'm like oh there that is now yeah there it is so don't take your eyes off y but I mean there there's some interesting spots to I think the my favorite part to the game overall I mean obviously like I talk about I got some issues with the geometry but if I have to pick out something that's really cool I like how you were able to Stage the left ball on the left orbit with I guess it's like an up poost that kind of comes up it was during one of the multi balls yeah yeah that and so then it just held the ball there then you hit the ball for Super Jackpot or something like that so I like that I I like mechs that enable you to stop the ball somewhere and then use the second ball to do something with it for a Super Jackpot or a double Super Jackpot so I think that's a nice touch as well to explain that um there there's a fork on the left orbit and then there's actually you know a few inches behind it there's a standup Target that'll pop up and then behind that there's a spinner so uh both in the fiery multiball mode and in the brick maker multiball or brick whatever multiball uh you get to a point where yes you hit the left orbit that drop comes up so it'll stop the ball the fork comes up and it holds it and then what you get for your Super Jackpot is you want to you want to hit that C Ball now and the Super Jackpot is based on spins so depending on how hard hard you hit that you will get more points so it's cool that you're you are now there's now A C the ball that's not normally there you have one clean shot at it and then it's a spinner rip so it's a very interesting combination and talking to Phil apparently that was Phil's idea and it's a brilliant idea it's a really unique scoring way it's got some good ideas in there for sure from what I've read about and kind of kind of looked around about but you know it's just I think if you like Labyrinth you're going to be happy with this pin if you're a fan of the theme you're going to be happy with this it's not going to be one of those situations where you're like well [ __ ] I wish somebody else would have did it yeah that was my dream theme and it's right right if you're a fan of something that just shoots fantastic and shoots great I don't know you might hit some bumps with this but that's in the the eye of the beholder whoever's playing it you might you might love it you might prefer something different I don't know there's just some of the shot geometry I don't know if it's necessarily something that I would be a fan of but the flippers did feel okay yeah with with what we were playing and it the build quality overall felt fine like you said it felt like for somebody that's putting out their first pinball machine I think this is about the best possible way you could do it everything being said so all% so so I think if if I'm on the barrels of fun team I'm happy with this product that's going out so I I would just put it that way regardless of how I feel about the theme or the shots or anything like that it's still a viable product on the market and I I'm actually excited to see what they do next like I'm curious if once they do get the ball rolling and they do get manufacturing going I'm curious to see if they can become a very viable player because I feel like this particular pen seeing what the theme is seeing the excitement behind it seeing it come out I almost feel like they're leapfrogging spooky in American pinball at this point like it it really feels like that just from the vibe from what people are saying about it from the general excitement of it and I know that they brought over a lot of people from from those various compan yeah yeah so you know these these aren't just people new to pinball these are people that have been in the industry for a long time and they have experience and I think it it shows in the overall product with that so I'm interested to see where they go with it from here 100% yeah they have absolutely have a solid team and I've I've been able to have really cool conversations with a bunch of them and yeah I'm there's no doubt they've built that for this to be their first game they they crushed it and I mean there's there's still questions you know production like designing a pinball machine is the easy part right it's the producing them at a mass level that's a challenge I I have nothing I can say about that I have no idea um they've only made 10 that I could that I know of I mean this well I say 10 but this is serial number 15 but it'll be very interesting over the next few weeks hopefully they're actually putting out the 10 games they're shooting for a week and see that production out well the telling thing will be and Joel you're probably just one of like five people that can actually talk about this is how do you feel about the overall build quality now that you have it there is it feel like well you're going to have a ton of issues up front or does it feel like oh this is a legit pinball machine this makes sense next to a Stern Pinball Machine this makes sense next to a cgc pinball machine yeah 100% um every yeah it's it it very it just seems legit like everything about it my my one thing is there's no Shaker motor I thought that was surprising there is no Shaker motor in the game good but the cabinet the build quality of the cabinet the everything it's like it is top quality everything um and that's what I'm saying it feels like just like they're they're competing with the big boys just right out the bat on on on how they're building it but even the backbox it's not like it seems very well thought out well engineered the you know they're using the fast uh system which is a you know it's not like it's a proprietary system so I'm not worried about well it's proprietary to fast but it's not like barrels of fund made their own system that you're worried fast what is a fast system fast is a um it's a it's kind of like how like pck is a system that that um spooky did a bunch of their games off that was made by P3 fast is another system of like driver boards and other boards um so everything I see in there I mean I don't have any complaints with the build well you mentioned too because you had to update code and you felt like it was a super simple process as well they sent me a zip file I unzipped it it it the the extension was I think likef fun or something or was I don't remember exactly what the extension was but they just said take that file put on a flash drive USB flash drive with the game on insert the USB flash drive in the game as soon as I plugged it in boom code update popped up on the screen it did it and then it says remove flash drive and as soon as I removed it it rebooted and it was done like there was nothing I didn't have to format anything I I have to do anything it was painless um so really impressed by that even the UI and like the the the system to to you know go through the game to change settings seems very legit and professional um you know there's little things like there's no way to reset a game right now so when I was testing stuff like if I want to clear it out I don't there's no way to there's no like combination that I know of to like reset um the game um and then like you know a little setting like when I stream I don't want the backbox light on because of glare you know so like you know it's like little settings like that that I have trust that they will put or track mode sounds like I can't turn the track mode sounds off so I just turned the volume down so it's like little things like that that I have faith they're going to add because they're a brand new company but really impressed by it Tom you've played it um and and you you you lost at it but how did you what are your thoughts on the game your overall Impressions I was able to start a multiball I I thought I thought it shot really well you know and for somebody like I don't I don't know what was going on because I have still haven't watched the movie um so I I had no like relation to it but I I really liked how it shot I mean it had some cool shots it had some cool features I liked how the multiball like kind of Travis was talking about you lock a ball and it kind of shoots out under the ramp mhm um I saw when you were playing you you shot the left orbit and it grabbed the ball with with fork and then you had to hit that ball through the spinner to get that started I thought that was really neat oh yeah um there's there's some cool shots on the game I heard some people that played it thought like the flippers felt mushy but when I when I played it I didn't I didn't get that experience I thought it shot fine yeah like it it shot good so I I pulled this game straight from Expo and what I found was I thought the flippers felt too strong when they were here to the point where on the right ramp I was getting the ball would kind of it's really cool wire form on the right ramp but it was coming off of it and I asked them about it and they came back they're like oh we still have the flippers turned up so they actually had the flippers turned way up for the show because of you know long-term usage and power usage so they said the flippers yeah that might have been it too cuz since you played the far left pin and I played the far right pin yeah cuz there was four pins and everything you know they were probably all plugged in in like Series so the left pin probably got the most power and then you probably got the least and you know you know Jo Joel we have something to say hold on Travis so so we were we were waiting in line well we went over to where they had the four games and then like we we looked at the Kingpin Booth yeah and we're like oh there's two games set up over there and there's like two people playing well we get over there and there's there's there's this guy there's this guy and his girlfriend playing playing four player games on it and they're like hugging and kissing you know Joel and I are like throwing up behind them they were like playing they were like they were like doing the ghost pottery scene but on the pinball machine really okay I think he like I think she was playing and he like out of nowhere left to go to the bathroom and then came back and like slipped right between us to make sure it was obvious like and then we realized oh it's a four-player game it was I'm pretty sure they conceived a child in that game I mean it was it was they better call him David for Bowie I mean it's just it was something man it was but we got behind a group that was actually playing it was uh like two people than one person and they were done before the the four I mean it was yeah I just never saw that I've never seen pinball you know really R up the endorphins like what was happening in that that that it is such a dick move to go to a show and put four players in and play by yourself or with somebody else Sor I thought you about to say it's such a dick move to bring your girlfriend to the show you know more power to you more power to you maybe they met there maybe they met there games but four player game when there's line yeah there's we've talked about that before it's tough when you're at a show because you want to experience a game but at the same time you don't want to be on it for half an hour when you know the line behind you hu is huge yeah you know yeah there's two of you it should be a two-player game right pretty pretty basic yeah yep but yeah so overall I will say let me end um Labyrinth I did stream it I had an opportunity to stream it which which was awesome uh there was a ton of people from barrels of fun in chat that were answering questions uh it was just really cool to see that like Eric primy the guy who's actually coding the game was there Scott Danesi showed up he's tweaked the audio um Marc Silk showed up who did some of the voice call outs in the game like just they've really assembled a very cool team and a huge shout out to to um David Van Es the CEO of the company he's the guy that actually helped me at 1:30 in the morning walked the game out and load it into my car like Gary Stern hasn't has helped me load a pinball machine in the car nothing against Gary but it's pretty cool what about Jack Wii no no still hasn't helped me you know I I think that's Charli Charlie and Bug did they no bug would bug W bug W bug would I just would too hon so everybody listening out there what we're getting out of this is your value to Joel goes as far as what you're G to do for him it was I thought I just I think they're doing it and and you know if if we fast forward a year and the company fell apart and I would feel bad but as of right now I'm saying they've built a really good team the product they have made is really really good so the big question mark now is the production are they gonna be like cgc and they're going to take four years to make this or is it going to be they're going to start pumping them out Tom has oh go ahead I just wanted to say that Charlie helped me load my my Rick and so screw you Joel yeah no what were you saying Travis well no I was going to say you know know the the only thing I hope that barrels of fun can do better in the future is just their overall initial release of a game like in terms of how the videos went in terms of how the initial marketing went because that that hit some bumps right there but I'm glad that they were able to get the game to a show quickly get it in front of people quickly because at least by doing that you get good word of mouth out there you get positive word of mouth and now that they that you have a game out there you're G to at least see [ __ ] I'm giving Joel a compliment here you're going to at least see a high quality stream you know of the game which is going to help so high quality stream not high quality gameplay fair but high quality stream high quality stream that that goes a long ways to being able to hear video correctly to be able to see games correctly you know and I mean things aren't ever going to be perfect right I mean all of us as content creators we've been there before to where something messes up on us or it's just not exactly it just has to be good enough but when you're rolling out a product that's a multi-million dollar product and you're trying to launch a company that's where you want to make sure everything is as close to perfect as you can get it because you've already put in so much hard work yeah already for a year plus with multiple members of the team so that's something that you don't necessarily want to mess up so hopefully hopefully on the next round that they they get it done a little bit better and I'm sure that they will I mean like you said Joel they they all seem receptive to feedback which is good that's an excellent sign when the company is that and I know we've been talking about the company name and all that but I get the hint and I think it either you guys confirmed this or somebody else confirmed this to me that when I saw that name I was thinking they're not going to be just a pinball company they're not just selling just pinball machines right they're gonna be doing something else I don't know I don't know I don't know anything about that um I thought I heard in the interview they were like brainstorming things and they were brainstorming names and they were struggling to think of a name they were throwing out all these names and apparently somebody was like well this is a barrel fun you know like set it as a like as a frustrated comment to trying to find the name and somebody's like that's it let's go with that that's it it just strikes me when I when I see the name barrels of fun that strikes me as an arcade pinball company that doesn't strike me as we're just making pinball machines only I don't I don't know like I haven't heard that's why I thought somebody told me that because i' mentioned that to somebody else I couldn't remember if it's you guys or somebody else cuz I don't know any about it so I Know Travis you really like very clear descriptive company names like a pinball podcast Y and you work for the pinball company yeah you just you like eliminating all doubt on what it is yes you be direct with people you you have to you have to make a barrier of Entry or you have to you have to take all those barriers and go down as quickly as possible because that's the easiest way to go about it right I mean especially if you have a business that's a niche business right sure it's none of us are ever going to be Nike you know or something like that it's just when you look at pinball in general there's really only one company out there that can really use a name that doesn't have anything to do with pinball but has everything to do with pinball and that's Stern right like everybody knows what that is now but nowadays it's it's almost like when you do come out with a new company you got to be very visual or very very focused on what you're trying to put out that's why I love the American pinball name you know something like that that makes a lot of sense spooky pinball that makes a lot of sense because they know what type of games they're trying to put out you know Jersey Jack pinball you know it it kind of makes sense a little bit because of the owner but when you're looking at the tiar of different things you know that's that's just the way it goes so that's why when I see the barrels a fun name I think to myself first when I first heard that it's just it seems like a company that's going to be doing other things besides pinball true and maybe they will I knew for a long time it was mystery mystery pinball company and reality was I think I think we all got used to it I think we all got used to mystery pinball um but yeah just so to wrap up Labyrinth just so we're not talking about the whole time um uh the stream was awesome you can check it out on YouTube on The Flipping Out YouTube stream and it was talk about um my fear as a streamer though was I know there's a lot of people that have put up a ton of work into this game and I want to show it off I want to show off the modes I want to show off the call outs I want to show off the multiball the beginning of that stream Jared and I were struggling I don't know if it was the people watching or if it's just us Jared had never played the game but just in my what I Was Fear was like I don't want people to think this game's hard it's you Joel I promise I was it was a me problem but that was my fear right beat us he beat us we have we have people watching and I don't you know we keep we kept losing shots in the outlanes two things about that one the outlanes you can't adjust them I was surprised about that there's no extra holes there's nothing you can do to adjust them but I was worried that I'm like I don't want to portray this game in a in a light that it's going to be really difficult um but as the stream went on we started to F find the shots we started to actually get through some of the modes and when you compare that to the Bowen tutorial videos the two videos he had out of the game Bowen's a world class player so he's just doing exactly what he say says you're going to do oh to start this you hit this and then you hit this and boom boom boom so I I get it that's got to be hard for a company because if you have somebody like Bowen doing all your gameplay videos the game may look shallow or the game may look too easy then you have me on the other end it looks too hard or so it's I hope people realize and I did have people that came up to me at the show that says the reason I like your streams is because my skill level relates to their skill level so I do think for the majority of buyers for Labyrinth their gameplay is going to be a lot closer to mine than they will bones well that's what I was going to say that what a lot of listeners need to realize out there and I think a lot of listeners and viewers do realize this that I think that you're actually the perfect type of player to show off games and to show off new games the reason being is because the vast majority of players out there are either going to be around your skill level or below it that's just the reality of it it takes a lot to be a world class player a lot it's just you don't just roll out of bed and all of a sudden just become a great pinball player it takes years and years of dedicated experience and even then it may never happen for people it may never click but that doesn't mean that the game can't be fun and I think seeing different games and seeing people be able to see somebody of a similar skill set of them and they can get an idea for how the game will play I think that's great you know there's there's two ends to the Spectrum you could see a Carl just absolutely demolish a game and it's fun to watch and you can see Joel just go out the right outlane over and over again on Deadpool and it's still fun to watch for so you know that's the mediums you know or the equilibrium that's fine yeah and and we even saw that with Venom you know my streams versus your tutorial videos I mean night and day you know you you had an hour plus long video on on Venom where you're like looping the game and here I am streaming it for two hours and I'm just grinding through XP but we can both have fun you can both have fun you can both appreciate the game in different ways yeah it's pinball and people got to realize you don't have to get the wizard modes the whole entire time to have fun and we were talking about that before because there's still people that get in their heads about rules and we're not talking about just Venom like we see it all the time on Facebook on pinside or just people that we talk to it's like you know at the end of the day you don't have to worry about it being a super deep rule set just know how to start a mode figure it out from there know how to start a multiball figure it out from there and have fun that's what it's supposed to be playing pinball it should be exploring the game that's the fun part if you're playing a video game right it's exploring the game learning how to do it so it's just kind of if you just expect to get into a game immediately and you're just going to play eer level all a sudden or you're going to play Bowen level all of a sudden it's like you're going to set yourself up for failure because it's takes years and years to get to that level and to to take that mental representation from game to game immediately so that's why I think it's so much better if people just temper their expectations just have fun finding shots have fun discovering the game because you only get to do that for a little while because once you discover everything in the game then what is it it's just doing it over and over again but to me that's that's the great part I the most fun I have with pinball isn't blowing it up the most fun I have with pinball is getting a brand new machine and figuring out where are the shots and figuring out what happens when I do this what happens when I do that it's like the same way I was telling you about that left ramp on Labyrinth that it was a little frustrating the ball came out I didn't realize it but you know what there's fun in that too because now I know now I'm like okay if I hit this shot this could potentially happen you know you take it as a learning experience and you apply it to the next game and I think that's what pinball should be it should be you know hitting those tiers and trying to get better and better and eventually trying to beat the game in the way that you can beat the game and that may not be beating a wizard mode it may simply be just hitting super jackpots in multiball it may be scoring 50 million points on a certain mode I I think that's that's the thing to do enjoy the games you want to enjoy it and that's why I think the streams that you put out Joel are excellent and I think the stuff that Tom does when he plays his games at home that gives a Cool vibe as well like that shows that shows like where you can be with games too and I think every everybody needs to know that pinball needs to be fun like it doesn't have to be super serious all the time have fun with your games set up your games the way that you want play the way that you want well said well said um I to to end Labyrinth what I'll say this is my brother so my brother played it uh I would say he's a little above novice in his skill level he's getting better but he's it's really fun having him on stream because even the skill level difference between the two of us I think shows very different approaches to the game um but he is a labyrinth fan he's a huge Jim Hinson fan I I I you know we grew up on the M Muppets but like Labyrinth was a movie that he's like oh I've seen it so many times and he he was all in on the theme so he text me the next morning he said man Labyrinth is a great pinball machine been thinking about it all morning this the first time he's texted me about a game after we've streamed Venom really it's really hit him in in a way that he's really enjoyed because of the XP system and I will say that um people are talking about progression what's neat is watching on the V on on pinside people are like I finally beat null uh my speedrun time was 5 hours 45 minutes and I was at level 99 and it's like perfect that's exactly what it was for right was and now but they're motivated to do it again and do it again so I anyways um that's pretty neat um so I said haha you're hooked he said I think I'm specifically hooked on Labyrinth I said so why this game over others and here's Jared's concise review theme and music is Big the rule set is not impossible but very interesting and uses the whole field the shots feel really good when you hit them you need to be accurate and slow the ball down but they all feel hitable you have to earn the multiballs there's a lot on the Playfield but it's not over overwhelming like some games I don't know it's just fun I said well look at you great review he said I may hate pinball but I do love a labyrinth so I actually think that review is is good um the the fact that he he can find the shots but he feels like when he gets multiball he has to earn it at the show they did have a consolidation multiball on so if you hadn't done multiball by ball three it was automatically lit you only had to hit one shot I've turned that off that's not part of the main code but um like yeah he the modes themselves are actually fit the game really well um like story-wise what you're doing or what you're trying to accomplish in the mode so I I agree My overall review on Labyrinth wellb built the they got a good team going if you're into the if Labyrinth is your theme you will really enjoy this game um and I'm just excited I'm excited to play it more and I'm excited to see what El spels of fun is going to do so boom check let's go to the next big game Elton John Elton John was revealed um they did some teaser this was hinted for a long time people saw it coming but we're still it's a theme that people are surprised happened um but it's here um we'll start with Tom initial impressions of seeing the gameo and playing [ __ ] is back but John right yeah yeah uh yeah so yeah I mean I I'm not a huge Elon John fan the [ __ ] is back like he said drop mik I'm not a huge Elton John fan uh I like his music but it's not like my go-to like when I'm playing a pinball tournament it's not rush it's not rush um but uh you know if I'm in my dental office you know working on a patient yeah sure I I like Elton John but uh you know I played the game and I thought it was okay I mean it shot good um I know there's been a lot of comparisons like oh this is Star Trek or you know Spider-Man or whatever yeah there's similar shots but I didn't I wasn't I wasn't getting that Vibe I thought it was its own thing um but uh do I want to purchase one probably not at the cost of what what they go for so when we were at pinball Expo we had talked about Godfather because it was revealed before we went um at the time you basically said very similar things and then you played a Godfather at tpf and you walked away ready to buy one so yeah God Godfather is different though I mean it has a very unique layout to me to it whereas you know okay yeah you can draw comparisons to other games but I don't know I just I can't get into the theme I guess so okay you well Godfather nelton John are very different them they're very different very different you know dude if I was a huge Elton John fan I would probably buy the game oh yeah you know I mean the the light show um was spectacular on it the actual like cabinet and artwork was phenomenal um but yeah it's just something with the theme I'm just like H yeah and you know if it was maybe a seven or $8,000 game I'd probably buy one just to have at home and play it but you know 12 15 grand for for that game I'm just like that's hard yeah it's hard it's A Hard Sell okay for me for me not being an Alton John fan I totally respect it um Travis what are your thoughts walking up to the game or seeing the game um so I never got to play the game I I was gone by the time L were too long they [Music] were they had rolled them out yet right right so when I left they brought it out so all I've gotten to see is just the trailer so I'll just say there's a lot of shoes and there's guys floating you know I I actually I like the trailer you know it's over the top but it's great it was super over the top but that's what Elton John is when you see him on stage and everything so I was fine thematically with everything I thought it was just the the right amount of corny goofy Fantastical elements I guess with it I mean one thing I'll say about jjp they do not skimp on trailers at all like I always look forward if I was still doing my reaction to those like I have the same reactions even if the camera's not on I just I was laughing I was like what is going on right now this dude's floating this is awesome oh my God there's lights there yeah I mean so that's that's my basic impressions of it I haven't really got a chance to just look at the Playfield and see how the shots are so I can't make any comment on that at all I just know the theme once again similar to Labyrinth I just I don't care about the theme at all I just I know some Elton John songs but I only listen to it when it happens to show up on the radio and I don't have any control over it at all but other than that I don't really listen to his music but but you know I I think as long as they are it's clear that Jersey Jack is trying to really diversify their themes dramatically I mean we're going from gosh Toy Story 4 to Godfather to Elton John yeah so I'm expecting Scarface or heat to come out or something like that like we're just going to zip around everywhere but but yeah it's I think I'm decided that there's still music pins that are coming out that aren't necessarily like the old classic rock per se I mean Elton John obviously goes a little bit everywhere with with his music and everything yeah piano and stuff like that so I'm happy to see something that's a little bit different though even if I'm not a fan of the theme I am glad that there's at least something slightly different in that way so I'm curious to see how the pinball industry responds to that how people respond to it when they finally get the game my only worry for it is is like Tom alluded to earlier just said outright it's just the price points of it you know just where the prices are getting to some of these games we're not going to see them on location as often so yeah you know I I think that we're not going to necessarily see opinions that could be as unbiased as possible because it's a lot easier to just put in $5 into a game coin drop and be like okay I didn't like this about it or I did like it about it compared to spending 12 15 grand to bring the game in and then you're having to be honest with yourself about what you don't like about it what you do like about it yeah you know what I mean your your opinion is always going to try to go towards the positive as much as possible but I I think that I would say just like Tom did that if it was a theme I was into I wouldn't mind what this is in terms of knowing that Steve Ritchie's behind it and the shots are going to flow a little bit in terms of I guess the lights overall and everything but it's got really cool toys I mean the the elen John Piano you know with his hands moving and I mean that is really really yeah is really neat I me it really is and the display on the piano yeah the display on the piano I mean that that's phenomenal stuff apparently my dog Travis is getting worked up he's he's got quite a lot of heavy breathing and he's licking his lips can't wait to can't wait to play on joh is it all going through on the mic my bad a little bit but no we're good we heard some slurps down boy yeah so that's I mean that's Elton John in a nutshell right it's just yeah it it's gonna be that type of thing but so here's the big question right that I have since you guys both got to play it how does a Steve Ritchie designed game play for with Jersey Jack mechs on it because that was the biggest deal that we were all kind of worried about every every body was focused in on because we all know how Jersey Jack flippers fill with well they changed them they changed the mix at least what I've heard is apparently the power these are stronger powered flippers than their previous game I've heard this I don't I don't know if this is confirmed I heard the same thing with Godfather well I so I feel like they all the mechs in the earlier games were the same like physical powered mechs but they were tweaking code and tweaking settings to make it shoot better but apparently in this game they're saying they went from like 40 watt coils to 50 watt coils or whatever it's something I don't know I'm not I'm not an electrical engineer but apparent I mean the game I thought the flippers felt really good I thought they felt felt really good so felt fine my initial impression my initial impression of the game um I was fortunate that there was the day before they wheeled him out on floor they had a distributor Travis is getting attacked by the dog um they had a distributor meeting um and they kind of had their own separate little room to to reveal the games somehow I got invited to that meeting so it was me and Josh from loser kid Travis isn't going to make it through this I'm listening the dog meos from loser kid and um it was Colin from K the kineticist and then will from this week in pinball we are invited to this this little room unveiling kind of thing so Josh and I went and we kind of yeah we had time to play it in a in a better controlled environment than the showroom um my initial impression that game's loud like visually it looks incredible Elton John was loud so it's or is loud it's it's I think thematically they they nailed it if you're if you're an Elton John fan they nailed it absolutely um my initial impression of the shots were it shot really well I mean uh Steve Ritchie is the king of flow right um there's a they're calling it The Piano ramp but it's it's it's the freaking um what is it the warp ramp on Star Trek like it's in Everything feels familiar Everything feels good um there is a rocket shot it's the far right it's almost like the Catapult in medieval Manus but it's on the far right and the way it Loops the ball around is a very unique path very good light show um so just initial Impressions were really good the C model has this topper with two displays and then this laser projector on the ceiling really cool atmospheric Stuff Plus the the the expression light not the expression the hot rails on the bottom of the game and the back of the game I mean it's it's a lot of money but what you're getting is a is an want John pin this is this is a great pin so rules rules I actually talked to Eric Minor was there and he kind of walked me through some of the rules and then Bill Grupp is the lead rule guy on the game I'm just telling you people's complaints with jjp games are that it's multiball city right or you just you fall into multiballs and you don't know why this is not that game um yeah the Piano Man multiball or like the Superstar multiball the main one of the main multiballs in the game you have to spell Elton John and it's every every shot on the Playfield is the letter it's nine letters I'll help you out there it's not International Rescue but it's nine letters there are ways to spot a letter but it's like it's work you have to you have to work to get that and that's that's to light the lock on the piano ramp then you hit the warp ramp and lock piano like where do you get the letters at if you said that every shot theame so like I think it's like you know the furthest left scoop is the E and then left orbit is the L you screwed yeah so you have to SP it's spelling it out from left to right you don't have to do it in order you get more points if you do it in order you don't have to yeah and I think spot a letter yes so on the plunge there's one of the options if you Plunge at the right time it'll spot you a letter or if you spell star with the you tell me that when I was playing you didn't ask but you know who did ask tan tan so tan when we were waiting in line the two people in front of us tan K he's the lead programmer for f or the lead rules and programmer for f foo fighter and Deadpool and then he was standing with Mark uh I don't know the guy's name but it was the guy that did the rules for Bon 60th all the coding for Bon 60th so those two guys were there so oh nice so they played and they stepped over and they and Tanya was just standing there watching them play so I just walked over I was like hey Tanya what' you think he's like oh it was good I was like do you know the rules at all he said no I said do you want to know the rules said yes yeah Joel the [ __ ] expert this guy this guy right here so I explained it to him I explained what's going on and he was asking good questions and and it was my job's done here good night nailed it so yes that happened it happened um so I explained rules to Eric Stone I explained rules to tan you know it's just it's just who I am now um I know I love that Tom and I and we're going to take credit for this I love that we have been able finally through what is this our 44th episode 4 episode so it took us 43 episodes to mold Joel into just this little baby pinball players little pan and now all of a sudden he's like out there like a peacock with his web like everywh I now know if I'm playing in a tournament that I just call Joel now that's not the case you I would have been if if I'm playing somebody I see Joel explaining the rules I would have been like huh they're screwed but now sudden he's like giving advice to Stone he's talking to T I've never played Force to I need to call Joel and crazy next thing you know Joel's gonna be telling Raymond how to play Rush he's probably he's probably giving Ln some tips on how to Cod his next game Raymond did you know that if you do this in L Zeppelin there's airp airport modes do you know the' gone from Mod to you explaining rules to people at Expo so that's it actually is something we're giving [ __ ] we're proud of you Joel that does mean you're thinking of pinball on a higher level and what happens when you think about on a higher level are you having more fun today than you were two years ago I'm loving it it is more fun when you're playing a pinball game it is more fun if you actually know what you're supposed to do or want to do but Elton John so yes that that's one of the main so what's what's interesting about that is you spell Elton John you lock the ball three times that's how you get into that multiball apparently though the way the final wizard mode works in this game is you have to score it's Progressive and it carries over game to game to game so you're trying to spell Superstar with an exclamation point 10 letters and that means 10 super jackpots while you're in one of the Superstar the piano ball multiballs car D'Python Anghelo cringing somewhere in California theoretically I don't know if I like that you could spell out and John Lock two balls get into that multiball and if you have a killer multiball where you get 10 super jackpots you could have qualified the final wizard modat in the game or you're stepping up to the game nine LS are already there you only need one Super Jackpot you've qual qualified the final wizard mode of the game does that not okay so that that was happening at Expo right it did happen at Expo there were people that got isues with the code it did because I don't think it's in there yet but my only view here is so it's like so venom has the XP system where it allows you to finally see the I I you know for a home collector they're not going to they they won't get those 10 super jackpots in one game but if they do it over time they're like sweet or if you're on location and you look at the letters you're like oh this is only one away from let me step up and see if I can grind it out to get to that I can see some of the advantages but for the people like Carl D'Python Anghelo that can blow up a game and probably score three trillion points in one shot he doesn't want that he doesn't want that so uh you know I don't know but that's I guess I would assume that there's just different options how how to set up the game as well maybe maybe you can off but you're saying that's just the default like no matter what how it's set up yeah comp like that that's just the default yeah that's what bill it's Bill Grupp the that's what he said is that's how it's set to see the final wizard mode in the game that's what you have to do I'm curious if there is another wizard mode where it's like if you collect all of his outfits and you do all this and you do all this album stuff and boom boom boom there might be something else I don't know but yeah I mean it's it's all about accessibility though too like I don't mind that you know just as long as there's different options to give people so I guess it it makes sense in a way that maybe you have something that's easier as a default and then the better players if you're a better player anyways you're going to know how to get into the menu system more than anything and then just make the adjustments to set the game up as you want compared to somebody that's a total novice getting into the menu system then it just becomes a [ __ ] show because they don't know where to go anyway so I don't know maybe they're on to something there I I don't know if I'm a big fan of that but I can see the value and the utility for it though it it makes sense like would you like that Joel if you if you know you yeah if you could step up to a game and you're like okay within five games maybe I can build up well I almost look at it like a stream if I'm gonna stream for two hours there's a chance that I may be able to actually show off that final wizard mode yeah and maybe it takes me three streams of the game to finally spell it but at least I I can do that when I realize some of these things that are locked behind having that really perfect game for me you know I mean there's there's something to that that if you could put into the code that you hey Travis kid hi hi he looks like he just dude it's Friday is he not at school what's going you no he's home he's homeschool but he's being lazy right I didn't know that I'm on a podcast yeah sup dude sure okay sure man the respect you get in your hous is just the best but no I I think it would be interesting though if there was something in code for pinball machines to where you do a certain something for so long that you do start unlocking various things in the game that maybe it's not necessarily locked within or unlocked within the actual game but maybe like another option to play as you know because you kind of see that in console games right to where you get so far you might unlock like a new game plus or something like that so I'd be curious to see if pinball could actually do something similar to that in the future well Stern with their Insider connect right they're tracking progress on Venom so it shouldn't be too hard to track progress in other games I mean we could maybe they do something with that I don't know it would make sense I mean especially if you're trying to make it easier and more accessible for that because you look at it basically when you're putting out pinball anyways you're never putting out pinball for just the top 1% you want to put out pinball for the 99% for your average casual player that's going to collect games that's going to bring it in and going to play a few games here and there so you want to create that accessibility as much as possible that seems like the best way to do it Joel your game behind you I just saw that track mode animation I know we got everything going so yes I agree and so with with Elton John that that's the main structure and what Bill said because I said something I was like oh are you guys going to kind of do like with G&R where um if you haven't collected all seven band members by ball three you know if you can't spell Superstar or Elton John if you can't spell Elton John by ball three would you like gift letters or whatever and he was kind of he just looked at me he goes no he goes everything everything you get in Elton John you have to earn and I think that's actually very different from a lot of the other code uh the jjp code like this is going to be a like you're not going to mistakenly do anything you have to know what you're doing you have to shoot your shots you're going to work through the game um the two other multiballs that I knew were there's Croc Rock multiball very easy to do you hit a Target that says light lock you hit the scoop you do that two or three times and you're in that multiball and then the rocket man multiball um it's all about switch hits you have to gather fuel there are certain shots that you can get more fuel than others but it's just something you're going to do progressively fill up the rocket once the Rocket's full if you hit the rocket shot it will start a multiball if you stack the Rocket Man multiball and the Croc Rock multiball you get Croc roet multiball so that is in the Crockett man multi or it's Crockett multiball which is instead of having alligator animations and Rocket animations the alligator riding the rocket it's awesome it's awesome that's what everybody should do I don't know if it's viable for points or whatever but you want to see the crocodile on the rocket it's so great I mean it's jjp games though it's not really about the points necessarily it's always seem like it's about the experience about the fist pumps exactly about the fist pump about theic music about the lights you know but I don't know maybe this game maybe with Steve Ritchie it might turn into something that's more tournament Centric I don't know I mean games games don't have to be that at all you know but I'm I'm curious to see what would happen if that was kind of ated end where you understood risk reward a little bit more with it I mean was some of that in Godfather though like I I haven't got to play that too often but I know that there was risk reward in terms of you can leave a job yeah or you can keep grinding away at the job and then collect so that's built in there but I will say so my my Impressions I only played um I only played Elton John three times two at the two at the distributor thing and then one actually waiting in line where I beat Tom um but playing that playing playing the game and I know I'm in a unique situation being able to borrow games from Zach um to stream must be nice it's it is I love it and honestly real nice honestly this is a game that I'm I'm pumped like I'm excited to stream this game because one the music realizing like I've never I've never sought out nelton John song just to play but flipping through it's like I know a lot of these songs and it fits the the game really well so I know the energy will be there I like the way it shot I'm excited about the rules it's a beautiful experience like I'm I'm very excited to stream this game so if you're an Elon John fan I place buy one like I you're going to like the game um and I think this could be a unique experience for jjp with the way the rules are laid out it feels very different than a key for rule set um that we've had now or Joe Cat's rule set even um so that's my thoughts that's my thoughts um okay so what what other games were Expo then because we've already played Venom like we all know how venom does and that that was a new game that Stern has the only other Stern game that happened was the alvara blood red kiss but it was Edition right wasn't at Expo I think Tom bought four um no no I already have an alvir and it's colored so what you have the premium or the I have the premium yes yeah so is there as a Elvira owner yes is there any I mean this is now there was a like wasn't there a super limited edition when it came out and then there was a 40th Edition was an Le and a super Le I believe yep and then there's been a 40th 40th the 40th $5,000 yeah the 40th was pretty sexy but for the cost it was like No And then tr's dog is back this is how Monica is when when she's around too yep she bugs me to death she bre on now we have the blood red Edition where it's just all red the blood red Edition I saw it in person they had one sitting out at the stern factory tour the game looks incredible like it looks beautiful and it would absolutely stand out in your game room because it is black and white with that shiny red um so I don't know I I don't know how I feel for the for the for one for the people that forked over $25,000 for what they thought was the top end model this thing now looks really really cool and you can get it for 13 that's that would be hard that would be hard to kind of deal with do I blame Distributors no they're just selling games do I blame Stern you know if you have the license and it's a chance to make money I don't blame them for making money but at the same time it's it could piss off people there's no denying that uh beautiful looking game there's no could it is pissing off people I will I will tell you somebody it works for a distributor dealer it absolutely is but yes it is yeah but that's going to happen you know you if you put out a product that you already have an anniversary edition so we all saw the reaction to Jurassic Park right 30th and that was an anniversary edition so when they came out with the 40th Ann Edition there I mean people had the same reaction back then too it's just people forget that because it's already happened a few years ago and different editions have come out though for the past decade of various games whether you're dealing with like a Lucy ACDC Edition whether you're dealing with the Catwoman Edition for the Batman 66 you had those little trading cards with the signatures on it for there you know there's there's always been I think even like Monsters when they initially had the black and white Prem then a little while later they released Itor right so you know historically speaking this isn't something that's new but I definitely get why people are frustrated if they believe that they have the top end Edition already and they've quote unquote invested that money or at least paid that money into that machine and then they see other things coming out like imagine if yeah go ahead to it's just I understand why people get frust I thought it was strange when they came out with the 40th like people are still waiting for premiums oh yeah so like and then now it's like we're going to do this other Edition so it's like what's next when's the next Bond game going to come out that's a you know a different version gold finger Edition the gold finger Edition right yeah there'll be a be a Godzilla 70th Edition is gonna happen I I could yeah I it's it's clear that's the strategy is to dip back into the same Pond again and use a theme that you still have the rights to and use it any way that you can to try to generate more Revenue but at the same time you do have to be careful of doing that that you don't alienate your current base and it's it's not just your base that's buying oneoff games when you look at Le collectors it's the vast majority of them keep buying you get one person here and there that will try to find one because they're just the Ultimate Fan of a certain theme like we saw that with rush we seen that with other games as well but by and large somebody that's willing to spend the money for a limited edition pin is not going to be just a one-off customer there's a lot of long-term value for that potential customer to various companies and if you upset them that's that's not a good thing now your industry has to be large enough to be able to replace them the problem that we're seeing with pinball right now the past three years it did grow tremendously and you could replace them but we're currently at that ceiling that we're kind of seeing at this point we've reached the Apex of that growth we know that these Lees are going to have 500 to a th000 each so you know at some point you can only have so many out there in circulation to where you're you're presenting it in front of the same customer base that's willing to buy those game so I think it's one of those things where I hope everybody kind of Treads lightly with that because you have a lot of fans of certain themes you have fans that are loyal to a brand but if you do something to damage that loyalty like you gota you have to be careful about that so my question is you know Tom's a rush Super Fan right clear Rush Super Fan he was going to buy the high highest model he could buy for Rush even if it had one pop uper we've he's shaking his head he knows he's ready um I'm assuming there are people out there that are elv super fans they probably have you know a rush or no they probably have a hep restored uh scar scared stiff Hep restored elvir and the party monsters so my question is what does that buyer own did they go with the super Le and then it's like oh crap the 40th Edition should I trade that in by the 40th or now the blood red Edition it's like crap do I need a should I trade in my 40th and get the you know like those guys and I know or girls those people are the rare it's it's a very small group obviously that are that are having these internal struggles but it is it is weird it is it is a weird spot to be in where you feel like you have the best version and then all of a sudden you now have doubt and should I upgrade or change to get a different version our Market D dictates the best version yeah yeah yeah it well you know it's well Tom how would you feel though if there was a rush super Ellie that comes out within like two years from now how would how would you personally feel about that as somebody that has the rush I probably wouldn't be happy okay I I would just be like why are they putting this out now and right then there's a decision like okay I'm pretty happy with what I have do I upgrade but do I really need to upgrade because it's probably just going to be some you know change in artwork and uh some power powder coating I wonder if there will be buyers that instead of buying the When A Game's revealed they buy the premium and then if they love the game they tell the distributor put me on the list for the whatever the next model you know the next limited edition is of this game it's possible but you know what Tom just said there is something that if you look at any positives out of doing this type of strategy the potential positive of that is is you already have a built-in audience base or a built-in consumer base for that particular product for the people that want to keep buying upwards and keep escalating what they're what they're going to get but sure you got to be careful of that too because just like we talked about you're going to have the same buyers that are just going to be pissed that they don't want to go any higher that they thought that they already had the highest one and you know somebody like me I can tell you personally that I honestly I wouldn't really care that much if a super version of whatever game like Avengers comes out right I would probably just stick with what I have and just be like okay you know they're two separate things it just is what it is but like I said opinions are going to be all over the place here on that yeah but you don't want the opinions to go negative you don't want people to say well if there's a chance that my limited edition pin won't be the top tier version a few years from now why do I want to pay this amount of money for it now yeah right you know like you might as well wait if you're if you're going to do that you might as well buy a premium and then just wait and see and then yeah I mean and that's you run the yeah you run the risk of that happening and I can promise you I can promise you because I've heard from these people directly that is going to happen and will happen that's a dangerous spot to be in because you have to replace those consumers up front because the Lees are still going to go out right at the very beginning of a Cornerstone it's still going to go out question is is is many going to be adopted you know it's it's just like we saw with Venom not all the Le's got sold sold through so it's not like pinball is this mainstream thing let's be honest right y it's yeah it's an odd thing because it is big in terms of the amount of people that know about it that want to buy it but it's not big in the sense of people that trying to bring people in to become aware of it because it's it's awfully difficult to go to a an arcade and just play a couple of games and be like yeah I'm willing to spend $110,000 for one at home you know what I mean your average family is not going to do that in all reality there's got to be something else that hits them to want to do that it's always a process for the vast majority of people out there that buy pinball it is a process that lasts well over a year to go from Discovery to thinking about buying to becoming a high intent person to actually purchase a machine so it's it's awfully hard to get to that point and there's just a lot of factors coming in right now terms of more pinball showing up more companies showing up like the one that's right behind you Joel with Labyrinth more more manufacturing happening like Stern expanding more dealers coming in the game becoming even more worldwide more people watching on Twitch and YouTube than ever before so it's it's an interesting spot to see that I think things have to be careful in terms of pricing these types of people out because it is obviously I mean let's face facts you have to have money behind you to get these games I wouldn't encourage somebody to go in debt for for pinball or anything like that like spend what your budget is but you you just have to be careful about that about putting stuff out and and pissing off your base now that's willing to support you know if you think about it I don't know the percentages but let's just say it's even just 10% right let's say it's 100 Le buyers that decide that they're out you have to replace those people if you're if you're gonna sell through the consumers I yeah it's this a this is a new thing right the kind of a new strategy that Stern's doing and we're just gonna kind of have to see how it's they've been doing it for the better part of a decade a lot of people don't realize it they've been doing it for the reasons that we said earlier like with the ACDC Lucy Edition catw it's been happening so people that think that this is a brand new thing it's not it's just more highlighted right now because we see where the prices are at right and it's it's happening at a much faster clip it feels like at this point you know because like Jurassic Park it came out what in 2019 I think sometime around there 2018 maybe or maybe Iron Man was 2018 anyways it came out around there just about four years ago or so so so now we're at the point that anything that any theme that comes out or any theme that is currently in production it's almost like everybody's just going to look and see okay what's the anniversary coming up for this game is there potential that that's going to show up because that's obviously what the strategy is going to be you know Stern's not hiding that because they've done it now now they can make now that the production's getting bigger they can make more games let's throw out some new versions spice things up um yep yeah well okay so we are rapidly approaching two hours we still have a little bit more to cover here um so let's Rapid Fire Let's rapid fire these things I know so American pinwall American pin wall was there Galactic tank force was pretty much all they brought there was a ton of them I played it again they had the actors the actors were there um I played it again I didn't have the issues with the tank that we had at Texas pinball Festival where the ball was hopping or anything like that but I was still having issues with the left ramp on one of the games you could hit the left ramp all day long the other games it would it wouldn't even make it up there so there's one ramp in the game and if you can't hit the ramp to light locks to do certain things I don't know I I know there are some gtf owners out there that love this game and if I'm still my my view is if I stream it maybe I'd love it but um I just unfortunately my initial impressions of playing it a handful of times now have not been positive game looks great I like the theme I think it's a fun it it cooky game but um the layout really isn't drawing me in and when you have you know mechanical issues where you can't really progress through the game uh it's unfortunate so um I don't know thoughts any any other you go to that I mean it's it's gtf I I didn't go I didn't go over there to play it I had very little time in the hall so yeah you were you were crushing that stream I did go to the custom area though did you guys go to the custom there some cool home brew I played the uh eightball Beyond I thought that was really neat I that one had a line I wish I would have played it cuz I didn't realize it yeah people loved it people L it yeah there was a battle station it was like a head-to-head thing which was really a lot of fun to play um I don't know how well that would necessarily sell but it was really fun like a head head tohe head you're standing across from each other shooting against each other game um that could that could become something really cool um but if the cost was right was thr with that game for sure that was a lot of fun to play Monica just absolutely annihilated her I felt great about that that a boy poor mon that was fun over in that section and we can keep this short was uh pinball Adventures they had a py factory and they had an elements um I played one game on elements um uh the glass was off the entire game um the entire day when I looked over the glass was off not the guy was working on it no he was having people play it with the glass off so clearly I think the game was in a state where it was just easier to have the glass off so that he could do X Y or z um starting the game you go to hit the start button you know and you're hitting the start button the place where the start button is and there's a button there but that's not how you start the game you you you have to start the game by hitting the action button so I mean it was just like that was my I mean that was literally initial impression like how do how do we even start this thing um it you it was interesting that it was over in the home Brew section because I think you could have wheeled the game over and put it in the home brew lineup and it would have fit and that's not an insult to the home brew it just that's where it was at it's does not feel like a production game it feels like this is the beginning of what could become a game um it just it has long way to go elements elements yeah elements I did not play P Factory I had enough with elements I just you know there was an upper play field and honestly I shot it the ball shot up and it fell off so I just grabbed the ball and I set it back up on the upper play field because I wanted to see what the shots were up there right and um I don't know I'm not here to just bash but it was just it was it was really disappointing it was really disappointing um did you get to play that game Tom element I did not oh you missed out oh talk the there's a there was a ramp the sounds of it yeah and there's a a right like it's metal uh kind of habit Trail and you would normally expect that habit Trail to feed the inlane but instead The Habit Trail takes a hard turn to the left like a 90 degree turn and it spits the ball out into the middle of the Playfield yep across the play field horizontally cross the play field I think the goal is to hit a Target I believe was not doing that no no it was just dunking the ball to the left out lane and you were just D nice that was it so you hit the right r right ramp to left outlane that's pinball yeah so it no such thing as house balls Tris it could have been saved we tried it so I I played the game I think twice just to just to give it a whirl and yeah it's I I would highly recommend that they go back to the drawing board in terms of design overall I mean it's it's cool that people are trying to produce pinball but it's yeah I I don't understand like you know it'd be like Stern or Jersey Jack or another company just bringing a Whitewood in unfinished stage and being like hey what do you guys think of this you know yeah it just doesn't make a lot of sense to bring it to a show and have the glass off and it'd be a disaster it was just almost like they were wanting to get real world testing right but they weren't really advertising they have a sign like that's what I mean they weren't advertising so if you're just extreme casual you would have no idea what's going on like all of us that are like firmly into the pinball culture like we understood what was happening there but at the same time it's like if we were going to give honest feedback about it the honest feedback I would give is that you need to go back to the the design phase start over yeah yeah the Design's not going to work I mean it had a left orbit that was so impossible to hit like it would make even Josh Shar blush like it had a rubber that was just so fat that I told everybody around me I'll give you guys 10 bucks if you can hit that shot because it was like it was almost like you're playing a carnival game it was so like tight and somebody finally did I think Monica did out of all people but 10 bucks hell no I didn't give but yeah it was yeah we were probably legitimately like one for 20 something one for like it was a lot I never hit it once and it was just and I was aiming for it consistently and it was the way that they had the design with I guess there was some other left shot that kind of like did a little half candy cane real quick turnaround and would just come back out I'm not really sure what was going on there and then yeah the the upper play field with the Horseshoe below it's kind of like swords of Fury in a way they just combined everything up together and then yeah the right ramp return though that I mean I'll be honest that was the worst return I've ever seen it was insane machine yeah it was it was almost like and I told you guys this that if somebody came out with a camera crew and said you're being punked right now I would believe them I'd be like okay yeah this makes so much sense because it just it just fed the left outlane and just dunked it and there was no kickback there was no adjustments no nothing that's the problem I mean first first impressions are pretty much everything and you go and I mean even if you play a production game and the balls getting stuck and you know that's not a good thing in pinball y i I mentioned to you when I walked up to Labyrinth my initial thing was I wanted how did it feel right how did it feel and you walk up to that and it felt like it was going to fall apart like they brag about on their website you know they're using this Canadian Birch or something super high-end wood like it's just the cabinet didn't feel good you look at it it's just like the overall it just the build quality just was not great flipper everything everything that I said Felt Good On lath was the opposite with this I I will say I did play puny Factory and I will say the flippers there felt a lot better they were strong I not really gonna comment on the game too much other than I played it once and that was good enough for me it's just not not something I'm interested in playing anymore but you know their flippers over there did feel better and you could hit the shots over there it was just very much elements was a glorified Whitewood is what it was and we were all doing a beta test you know AC of happening there but yeah it was happening it it definitely after playing some of the Homebrew games it wasn't even on the level of some of those over there I mean it just wasn't just to be honest and so hopefully they can take the feedback that they got they can course adjust or whatever you call it they can do something a little bit better and they can um you know get something decent out of it I guess if they're going to keep putting pinball out there you know it's just I mean it's it's tough overall but if you're gonna so here's the hardest part guys if you're going to put out pinball and you know you can't manufacture like at a massive scale and you know you're not going to make thousands of them your game has to be extremely accessible and we keep saying that you know over and over again at this it has to be the shots have to be doable for people it has to make sense for people because if your game is a brickfest you're like you're done just not the game has to be designed for the Casual if if the shots aren't going to draw your in and you're it's unthe there's no theme drawing you in there's nothing about that game that's that's pulling you in to play another game and yeah but I that's probably more than enough time that we probably said I mean they yeah that's just where that company's at um Joel Joel's saying let's move on well I'm just send the game to Joel make Joel stream it so we I'm going to Rapid Fire here through a list because there's really one more game I want to talk about in detail but it's um other stuff for there cgc there was a bunch of cactus Canyons Pulp Fiction is still great had good lines there um pinball Brothers was there with alien there's the new Ripley uh code I've I've seen her she is in the code that was there Dutch pinball was there with big Labowski big Labowski still a very cool game um that was that's big Labowski played very very well um I think that's it besides Turner pinball Turner pinball um for all the manufacturers I don't think I'm forgetting anything or any other new games but Turner pinball ninja Eclipse right ninja eclipse is that what it is oh spooky was there they had some Scooby-Do they those all sold those played played well um it was good seeing bug in that crew is that your ninja look Tom nin so ninja eclips a few things so first off Turner pinball they're the people that bought a ton of the assets from Deep RP I think they were initially like the design team with some of the code with deep root so there's kind of a weird thing there but now they're their own thing um so this game they redesigned the cabinet there's no coin door the idea here is if this game was on location you pay for the game through an app and somehow the app would work with the bar that it was at for something so they've kind of redesigned trying to bring it into the digital world I don't know I don't know what they're doing there I mean I mean that's no Travis saying no well it goes square against what I just said five minutes ago it's not accessible it's not accessible If somebody walks up with a quarter yeah and they're just like where do I put how do I put money in game how do I put how do I they're just GNA start hitting buttons oning yeah so because I didn't go over there I had no idea the game is the depth of the cabinet is a lot shorter there's no coin door so the depth of the game is a lot shorter so the legs look long the depth of the game looks shorter and because the way they built the game the game feels way lighter I went to nudge and I like threw the game across the room I mean it it moved so you know you think you're used to whatever you're thinking like oh I'm going to move this half in an inch this thing moved literally a foot and it so it felt like a zizzle it felt like man okay this is a higher up version of a of a of a zizzle or like this is so I'm thinking like if this is in the $5,000 range they may have a market here to or like four or five and I was playing with Zach and Zach laughs he's like this is a $10,000 game like this game costs as much as a Stern premium what yeah so 10,000 that alone yeah it's just like nope like I just there's for Ninja eclipse for Ninja eclipse the layout was the same layout that we played at tpf when it was a Whitewood they've tweaked some little things the there's a side ramp it's the widest side ramp I've ever seen M but just hitting it was rough because of the way the layout works yeah so it's just one of those things exactly what you're talking about with pinball um pinball Adventures where the theme isn't going to draw you in yeah the the code isn't going to draw you in and the layout there wasn't anything in that layout that was like oh I want to shoot that shot again I want to experience this again so it just it's a similar thing if they sat me down and they're like what do you think the only thing they crushed was the art they hired Matt Andrews the guy that did Weird Al art and total TNA's art they add him to the art the art looks great the animations even look good but it's just it was a similar like I don't know what I'm doing the game isn't explaining what I'm doing and these shots aren't particularly fun the flippers feel odd feels like a toy and it just so with the coin thing or with the bar or whatever it's obvious that they're trying to do something Innovative right yeah but what problem are they trying to solve you know cuz to me it's like if you're going to innovate you're doing it for a reason to further something and to solve a problem right to make ease of access or something like that but I don't like what problem exactly are they solving with that or is it just innovating just to innovate I just know you know like in Japan you can pay for everything with your phone you vending machines everything so I don't know if it's this idea of how do we get more people to use their phone for you know and that well that part makes sense in terms of tapping and everything but the problem is you just have one game right so it's like people aren't going to adopt it so it's almost like do you just make that because you're hoping Stern or Jersey Jack decides to to back system but the problem is that system is only relevant to locations and we all know Stern is the ones that rules everything when it comes to location pinball yeah so feel fresh there you go I don't I don't see any other reason to be using something like that like I don't understand that Innovation how that makes it any easier for people it's not a good it's just it's not you know people are upset that like American pinball had like squiggly back boxes I'm just like this game will not look good in a lineup in any way like this game if you have that weird spot in the corner of your basement that Nothing fits in maybe put it there but it just I don't get it I don't get it you know props on them trying something new but it just to me what I thought was insane was that barrels of fun Turner pinball and pinball Adventures are kind of all in the same spot or the all same position of trying to get into this industry and establish himself as a reputable manufacturer and you have pinball Adventures that feels like a low-end home brew you have this Turner pinball that it just doesn't it feels like a high-end zizzle and then you have this which actually feels like a legit game and it's and but the key there is Turner Pinball it's just a bunch of guys that are new to pinball and they fell in love with it because deep group hired them I don't know what's going on with pinball Adventures but barels of fun that's a team of people that have been working in pinball that all left their other positions all left previously what they were doing came together and decided to start their own thing and that experience shows so I don't know I played one game and I'm I'm good that was it that was the the market will talk it'll it'll speak it'll accept whatever these companies are bringing and yeah they'll either accept it or they'll decline it and we'll see pretty quick within the next year to two years how that plays out now the biggest part is though like we talked about manufacturing your game could look great but you have to be able to produce the game but if your game looks not great and you have a hard time producing it you you don't have a company then you just you just don't you know so I don't know hopefully everybody figures it out and hopefully I mean because we all we obviously we all want everybody to succeed like it absolutely sucks starting a business and it doesn't go the way that you want it and you hear the negativity and all that like that does absolutely suck but we still I think pinball pinball in general it does good to at least be honest about what these situations are and hopefully they all take it to heart hopefully people are giving them the right feedback but yeah I just I I don't that's a head scratcher to me with in terms of what Turner's doing with trying to do something Innovative in that way I would just I would just rather see a game play well I don't I don't even care about world underglass or all this and that like I just want to see the shots do something cool you know I want I want to feel like a boss hitting shots let's say that I mean Labyrinth the only Innovation they put in this game is that display in the bottom so they didn't try they didn't try to revolutionize pinball like and even then that doesn't look like that that was the first like their first idea with it because it's partially blocked by some other stuff like I feel like that that was put in like due to them not being able to do something else like when I look at it so it works well but I get what you're saying but I I don't know I would just say looking ahead um the only thing that's going to slow down the hype train of Labyrinth is if they have manufactur in issues so that's definitely something to watch over next few months and then all the other manufacturers I just don't American pinball I don't know what's going on with with u with gtf I know they went big at Expo but I just there there were no lines they had a ton of them there but it's just to see this huge line for Labyrinth to see huge lines for Elton John you could it just overall it just seemed like people were just okay it's still here there's no such thing as a relaunch of a game yeah when the game's out it's out people have already station yeah they're already there it's the only time there were lines for there were lines for pul fiction you know there were six games and there was but that game that that game's not out to Consumers yet we're all still waiting for it you know I mean where is it yeah Jos sharp where is it Jos sharp he's working on the cgc he's working on the caus canyon code that's what he's doing that's a whole another issue that's a whole other manufacturing issue as well so it just you know and then what pulp does does very well though like okay if we're going to directly compare gtf and Pulp right which theme's better like yeah the gtf theme is hilarious yeah pul fiction you look at the way the shots are which feels better shooting yep you know what I mean when you look at what draws you in without having to really do anything that's super Innovative like what just draws you in it's going to be Pulp Fiction you know I think what pulp does really well and what I'm a big fan of of pinball in general is when it can take assets directly related to the theme in terms of call outs to where you don't have to have a voice actor come in from the show or from the movie to do any type of custom pinball call outs to where you just do you pull call outs directly from the source and you're able to apply it to a particular shot or to a particular scenario because everybody that loves the theme you already recognize that you already have an emotional investment in that scene in that saying in that dialogue in that actor so if you can do something like that I think that that's a winning combination when it comes to really creating just an atmosphere for somebody to enjoy with the pinball machine I agree no there's um yeah there's some good stuff there and that's what I'm saying looking at the horizon horizon here between now and the end of the year you know it'll be with Stern it'll be at the end of the year I'm assuming the next game will be announced probably December end of December early January that's kind of their thing so we're going to kind of be waiting there American pinball I'm not I don't know if anything's gonna happen there Elton John I think they're I don't think they're on the line yet so it's probably going to be November I mean we're almost done with October so maybe late November before those start getting out um labyrinths hopefully these are trickling out uh spooky I would I think they're nearing the end of Scooby-Doo production so I have I would assume sometime time soon their next game will be um discussed um so yeah there's there's a lot of good stuff that just happened that was just announced it was a fun Expo a lot of fun things to play and more to come is really all all I can say there um the last thing we do need to discuss is the um the tournament the tournament that was at Expo Tom you streamed it you streamed the whole thing um uh what was it who won that did eer win that too yeah we kind of touched on that before but yeah so he won the tournament and the stern PR soer had a great week is whater won two new and box games in like five days plus plus some money plus a lot of money he's he's doing well and a belt he got a belt too andig belt tile and he let Travis and I take a picture with them holding this check so from the uh from the uh anything else you want to say about the stream any anything uh well you did it all from a hot spot so congrats on that that we were worried about that for the part y yeah for the most part it worked it did have some hiccups but I was surprised at how well it worked honestly um and you know we'll we'll see what happens next year sure well it was fun it was fun to watch and it was fun to I loved I loved it I loved commentating um I hope the the viewers while I was commentating enjoyed it because my view was you know I was basically interviewing the people next to me like okay Raymond you they're playing Iron Maiden that what's your goal how are you attacking this when you step up to it and then hearing what he said and there was one point where it was Jurassic Park and I was sitting between uh Eric Stone and I think it was either Dalton or Rob buers but I said the same thing okay what are you guys doing and whoever was doton or Rob buyer said oh I'm getting it was Rob I'm getting into my mode I'm getting through that that way I can lock out you know immediately um hit get into a control room and try to work on that and Eric's like no like that's not he goes on this game you go Raptor pin the whole time that Raptor that Raptor multiball the points that you can get in that are just silly and like hearing them discuss their mentality and then watching the person what they're doing um it was really neat it was really a lot of fun um so I I really enjoy funny about that um the I think it the last game was on Jurassic Park and Usher I think aser was down quite a bit to Dalton and he Asher literally went to the Raptor pin the entire time and I was just like wow and uh I I was I I wasn't in the booth at the time so I was kind of in and out and I was talking to Josh Sharpe and Adam leof and uh Josh is like he's on his third Raptor and I was like what wow like I didn't even know you could do that well yeah so it was it was a cool way to learn that's the one thing if if anybody wants to learn more about pinball watch tournament streams um and especially with good commentating um you can learn a ton about the games you can learn a ton about the games um and what what's going on or what to do so expo's probably one of the best ones to watch too yeah in terms of some of the best players well there's yeah there's several reasons one you do have some of the best players in the world two you see that player come back up more often since it's not a four-player game in you know what I mean you're going to see it heads up base so that's good and then on top of that the games are set up pretty favorable so you're going to see players get deep into the game you're going to see the correct openings you're going to see the correct mid game decisions happen so if you're ever trying to figure out out what you're supposed to do on a game those streams by far are the most valuable that you're going to find just in a s because you just watch what they do and then you just try to copy it just at the beginning just do that and you'll be fine just like we're talking about Jurassic Park right there you watch that you're going to see two you're going to hear two different opinions on how to do it and I imagine if you watch Dalton eer play it you're GNA see two different versions of how to play it because Raptor pen all day is a very viable strategy when you're especially if you're playing heads up and you can handle the return to it whenever you're trying to knock down the Raptor pin or trying just to boost it up yeah I I think that that's that's interesting too just to be able to see the different strategies and see that there's different ways to skin that cat so I encourage everybody out there if you want to learn pinball those would be the best streams to watch yeah which sounds like a perfect transition to plugs plugs so um unless there was anything else you guys felt we needed to cover no we definitely missed in 15 minutes was enough I mean we said Rand one UK open so we're good like that's the only thing we make you know comment it on Facebook we'll hit it next time there's there's always more to talk about but um yeah let's plug it up Tom you go for it uh when I'm not here on Triple drain podcast uh you can find me on Fox Cities Pinball on Twitch and YouTube Instagram and Facebook perfect um Travis yeah you guys can find me on this podcast triple bra pinball podcast and hopefully next time I will actually have my studio all set up and then you guys can also find me on the pinball company's YouTube channel yeah this is this is excellent right here I mean yeah quality backd the bean bag yeah crushes your Cactus Canyon where's the do where CJ that's what I yeah get the dog back he need more CJ this definitely check out check out Fox City's YouTube Tom has a lot of really good videos there and then Travis is putting out more and more content on the pinball company uh with tutorial videos and I know you had a really good video on like how to win your Venom um which we have to update because there's a new which completely nerfed completely Nerf now so new V launch party which is really good but no it's really cool stuff um and then yeah I'm I'm jool I do the the the fliping out stream every Wednesday from 10: to midnight check that out obviously check out this podcast um but we're trying to do more stuff on the fliping out YouTube channel as well um with content which is fun and I have to say a huge thank you to everybody that came up to us at the show I know all three of us had different people saying they were fans of the show um kind of an unreal moment for me which was hilarious was um Dwight Dwight did this uh seminar um and it was this uh it was Let's Make a Deal and I went in there and I actually was talking to Keith elen beforehand I sit down Keith Elwin sits down next to me we're talking this guy walks up and he looks at both of us and he goes uh I just I just want to say I'm a huge fan of both of what you guys do I love your content Keith uh Jurassic Park is a forever pin for me uh thank you thanks for what you guys do and like walked away and I'm like how in the world did I just get involved in that you know like you can absolutely in that situation skip over me and go to Keith and thank him for what he's done so it's just stuff like that which is really neat I'm glad that the content that we're making is enjoyed and appreciated uh it's nowhere near on the level of Designing uh you know one of the best pinball machines ever made like Keith Owen but um I'm happy I'm happy that people that people like it um so thank you thank you for everybody that that yeah you hear that listeners boost Joel's ego every chance you get no I just feel like that was a situation where you can you can ignore me entirely like that's that is totally what you're trying to say is is it is very humbling when people Inc and we we definitely appreciate it and we're all willing to talk pinball with everybody here we don't take anybody out there for granted at all yeah or people like families like um you know I talked to um there was a a woman there that was wearing a triple drain shirt and you know she's like I love the podcast you're my favorite podcast my son watches your streams you know and it's just like it's it's crazy it's crazy what that is and my brother came on the Saturday and for this was his first like pinball experience outside of my basement pretty much and he loved it I mean everybody was new like was kind to him and and wanted you know the fact that he could have these conversations uh with fans or with people in the industry like he really walked away with a big old smile on his face which was really neat so um thank you for everybody that that it made a really fun experience a really fun experience you did just remind me Joel and hopefully they're still listening out here I didn't catch their name but you know how I was wearing my Elgato no signal hoodie yeah hoodie yeah somebody overheard me talking and they said you sound just like that guy from that podcast and I'm like do I yeah that that's cool well yeah I didn't even say like you didn't say you were so if you're listening that's great because they never watch the Youtube at all that's awesome that's awesome well to that guy he tricked you you were talking to him yeah it was me the whole time it was me the whole time yeah Travis is a douche that's what he should have said he's like man I really like that Tong guy I just wish I wish Travis would shut up a little bit he probably said something good about you Joel and I was just like okay yeah we're done with this interaction we're done with that no that's cool well I think that's that episode 44 we can we can check that box we've been checking boxes left and right but um hey obviously leave a comment if you're watching the YouTube video if we missed anything or um hit us up on Facebook even if you just want to leave an emote in the comments you know that's fair yeah yeah just put that's fair in the put that's fair put a dog emote because CJ's probably the best thing that's ever been on camera on this on this stream hey but my camera stayed up this whole your camera you did it you did it that said take a shot every time the camera goes off all of our listeners are sober right now that that works all right well like always uh Tom you get the last words thanks everybody