72:48mean I I'm not a huge Elon John fan the [ __ ] is back like he said drop mik I'm not a huge Elton John fan uh I like his music but it's not like my go-to like when I'm playing a pinball tournament it's not rush it's not rush um but uh you know if I'm in my dental office you know working on a patient yeah sure I I like Elton John but uh you know I played the game and I thought it was okay I mean it shot good um I know there's been a lot of comparisons like oh this is Star Trek or you know Spider-Man or whatever yeah there's similar shots but I didn't I wasn't I wasn't getting that Vibe I thought it was its own thing um but uh do I want to purchase one probably not at the cost of what what they go for so when we were at pinball Expo we had talked about Godfather because it was revealed before we went um at the time you basically said very similar things and then you played a Godfather at tpf and you walked away ready to buy one so yeah God Godfather is different though I mean it has a very unique layout to me to it whereas you know okay yeah you can draw comparisons to other games but I don't know I just I can't get into the theme I guess so okay you well Godfather nelton John are very different them they're very different very different you know dude if I was a huge Elton John fan I would probably buy the game oh yeah you know I mean the the light show um was spectacular on it the actual like cabinet and artwork was phenomenal um but yeah it's just something with the theme I'm just like H yeah and you know if it was maybe a seven or $8,000 game I'd probably buy one just to have at home and play it but you know 12 15 grand for for that game I'm just like that's hard yeah it's hard it's A Hard Sell okay for me for me not being an Alton John fan I totally respect it um Travis what are your thoughts walking up to the game or seeing the game um so I never got to play the game I I was gone by the time L were too long they [Music] were they had rolled them out yet right right so when I left they brought it out so all I've gotten to see is just the trailer so I'll just say there's a lot of shoes and there's guys floating you know I I actually I like the trailer you know it's over the top but it's great it was super over the top but that's what Elton John is when you see him on stage and everything so I was fine thematically with everything I thought it was just the the right amount of corny goofy Fantastical elements I guess with it I mean one thing I'll say about jjp they do not skimp on trailers at all like I always look forward if I was still doing my reaction to those like I have the same reactions even if the camera's not on I just I was laughing I was like what is going on right now this dude's floating this is awesome oh my God there's lights there yeah I mean so that's that's my basic impressions of it I haven't really got a chance to just look at the Playfield and see how the shots are so I can't make any comment on that at all I just know the theme once again similar to Labyrinth I just I don't care about the theme at all I just I know some Elton John songs but I only listen to it when it happens to show up on the radio and I don't have any control over it at all but other than that I don't really listen to his music but but you know I I think as long as they are it's clear that Jersey Jack is trying to really diversify their themes dramatically I mean we're going from gosh Toy Story 4 to Godfather to Elton John yeah so I'm expecting Scarface or heat to come out or something like that like we're just going to zip around everywhere but but yeah it's I think I'm decided that there's still music pins that are coming out that aren't necessarily like the old classic rock per se I mean Elton John obviously goes a little bit everywhere with with his music and everything yeah piano and stuff like that so I'm happy to see something that's a little bit different though even if I'm not a fan of the theme I am glad that there's at least something slightly different in that way so I'm curious to see how the pinball industry responds to that how people respond to it when they finally get the game my only worry for it is is like Tom alluded to earlier just said outright it's just the price points of it you know just where the prices are getting to some of these games we're not going to see them on location as often so yeah you know I I think that we're not going to necessarily see opinions that could be as unbiased as possible because it's a lot easier to just put in $5 into a game coin drop and be like okay I didn't like this about it or I did like it about it compared to spending 12 15 grand to bring the game in and then you're having to be honest with yourself about what you don't like about it what you do like about it yeah you know what I mean your your opinion is always going to try to go towards the positive as much as possible but I I think that I would say just like Tom did that if it was a theme I was into I wouldn't mind what this is in terms of knowing that Steve Richie's behind it and the shots are going to flow a little bit in terms of I guess the lights overall and everything but it's got really cool toys I mean the the elen John Piano you know with his hands moving and I mean that is really really yeah is really neat I me it really is and the display on the piano yeah the display on the piano I mean that that's phenomenal stuff apparently my dog Travis is getting worked up he's he's got quite a lot of heavy breathing and he's licking his lips can't wait to can't wait to play on joh is it all going through on the mic my bad a little bit but no we're good we heard some slurps down boy yeah so that's I mean that's Elton John in a nutshell right it's just yeah it it's gonna be that type of thing but so here's the big question right that I have since you guys both got to play it how does a Steve Richie designed game play for with Jersey Jack mechs on it because that was the biggest deal that we were all kind of worried about every every body was focused in on because we all know how Jersey Jack flippers fill with well they changed them they changed the mix at least what I've heard is apparently the power these are stronger powered flippers than their previous game I've heard this I don't I don't know if this is confirmed I heard the same thing with Godfather well I so I feel like they all the mechs in the earlier games were the same like physical powered mechs but they were tweaking code and tweaking settings to make it shoot better but apparently in this game they're saying they went from like 40 watt coils to 50 watt coils or whatever it's something I don't know I'm not I'm not an electrical engineer but apparent I mean the game I thought the flippers felt really good I thought they felt felt really good so felt fine my initial impression my initial impression of the game um I was fortunate that there was the day before they wheeled him out on floor they had a distributor Travis is getting attacked by the dog um they had a distributor meeting um and they kind of had their own separate little room to to reveal the games somehow I got invited to that meeting so it was me and Josh from loser kid Travis isn't going to make it through this I'm listening the dog meos from loser kid and um it was Colin from K the kineticist and then will from this week in pinball we are invited to this this little room unveiling kind of thing so Josh and I went and we kind of yeah we had time to play it in a in a better controlled environment than the showroom um my initial impression that game's loud like visually it looks incredible Elton John was loud so it's or is loud it's it's I think thematically they they nailed it if you're if you're an Elton John fan they nailed it absolutely um my initial impression of the shots were it shot really well I mean uh Steve Richie is the king of flow right um there's a they're calling it The Piano ramp but it's it's it's the freaking um what is it the warp ramp on Star Trek like it's in Everything feels familiar Everything feels good um there is a rocket shot it's the far right it's almost like the Catapult in medieval Manus but it's on the far right and the way it Loops the ball around is a very unique path very good light show um so just initial Impressions were really good the C model has this topper with two displays and then this laser projector on the ceiling really cool atmospheric Stuff Plus the the the expression light not the expression the hot rails on the bottom of the game and the back of the game I mean it's it's a lot of money but what you're getting is a is an want John pin this is this is a great pin so rules rules I actually talked to Eric Minor was there and he kind of walked me through some of the rules and then bill grup is the lead rule guy on the game I'm just telling you people's complaints with jjp games are that it's multiball city right or you just you fall into multiballs and you don't know why this is not that game um yeah the Piano Man multiball or like the Superstar multiball the main one of the main multiballs in the game you have to spell Elton John and it's every every shot on the Playfield is the letter it's nine letters I'll help you out there it's not International Rescue but it's nine letters there are ways to spot a letter but it's like it's work you have to you have to work to get that and that's that's to light the lock on the piano ramp then you hit the warp ramp and lock piano like where do you get the letters at if you said that every shot theame so like I think it's like you know the furthest left scoop is the E and then left orbit is the L you screwed yeah so you have to SP it's spelling it out from left to right you don't have to do it in order you get more points if you do it in order you don't have to yeah and I think spot a letter yes so on the plunge there's one of the options if you Plunge at the right time it'll spot you a letter or if you spell star with the you tell me that when I was playing you didn't ask but you know who did ask tan tan so tan when we were waiting in line the two people in front of us tan K he's the lead programmer for f or the lead rules and programmer for f foo fighter and Deadpool and then he was standing with Mark uh I don't know the guy's name but it was the guy that did the rules for Bon 60th all the coding for Bon 60th so those two guys were there so oh nice so they played and they stepped over and they and Tanya was just standing there watching them play so I just walked over I was like hey Tanya what' you think he's like oh it was good I was like do you know the rules at all he said no I said do you want to know the rules said yes yeah Joel the [ __ ] expert this guy this guy right here so I explained it to him I explained what's going on and he was asking good questions and and it was my job's done here good night nailed it so yes that happened it happened um so I explained rules to Eric Stone I explained rules to tan you know it's just it's just who I am now um I know I love that Tom and I and we're going to take credit for this I love that we have been able finally through what is this our 44th episode 4 episode so it took us 43 episodes to mold Joel into just this little baby pinball players little pan and now all of a sudden he's like out there like a peacock with his web like everywh I now know if I'm playing in a tournament that I just call Joel now that's not the case you I would have been if if I'm playing somebody I see Joel explaining the rules I would have been like huh they're screwed but now sudden he's like giving advice to Stone he's talking to T I've never played Force to I need to call Joel and crazy next thing you know Joel's gonna be telling Raymond how to play Rush he's probably he's probably giving Ln some tips on how to Cod his next game Raymond did you know that if you do this in L Zeppelin there's airp airport modes do you know the' gone from Mod to you explaining rules to people at Expo so that's it actually is something we're giving [ __ ] we're proud of you Joel that does mean you're thinking of pinball on a higher level and what happens when you think about on a higher level are you having more fun today than you were two years ago I'm loving it it is more fun when you're playing a pinball game it is more fun if you actually know what you're supposed to do or want to do but Elton John so yes that that's one of the main so what's what's interesting about that is you spell Elton John you lock the ball three times that's how you get into that multiball apparently though the way the final wizard mode works in this game is you have to score it's Progressive and it carries over game to game to game so you're trying to spell Superstar with an exclamation point 10 letters and that means 10 super jackpots while you're in one of the Superstar the piano ball multiballs car D'Angelo cringing somewhere in California theoretically I don't know if I like that you could spell out and John Lock two balls get into that multiball and if you have a killer multiball where you get 10 super jackpots you could have qualified the final wizard modat in the game or you're stepping up to the game nine LS are already there you only need one Super Jackpot you've qual qualified the final wizard mode of the game does that not okay so that that was happening at Expo right it did happen at Expo there were people that got isues with the code it did because I don't think it's in there yet but my only view here is so it's like so venom has the XP system where it allows you to finally see the I I you know for a home collector they're not going to they they won't get those 10 super jackpots in one game but if they do it over time they're like sweet or if you're on location and you look at the letters you're like oh this is only one away from let me step up and see if I can grind it out to get to that I can see some of the advantages but for the people like Carl D'Angelo that can blow up a game and probably score three trillion points in one shot he doesn't want that he doesn't want that so uh you know I don't know but that's I guess I would assume that there's just different options how how to set up the game as well maybe maybe you can off but you're saying that's just the default like no matter what how it's set up yeah comp like that that's just the default yeah that's what bill it's Bill grup the that's what he said is that's how it's set to see the final wizard mode in the game that's what you have to do I'm curious if there is another wizard mode where it's like if you collect all of his outfits and you do all this and you do all this album stuff and boom boom boom there might be something else I don't know but yeah I mean it's it's all about accessibility though too like I don't mind that you know just as long as there's different options to give people so I guess it it makes sense in a way that maybe you have something that's easier as a default and then the better players if you're a better player anyways you're going to know how to get into the menu system more than anything and then just make the adjustments to set the game up as you want compared to somebody that's a total novice getting into the menu system then it just becomes a [ __ ] show because they don't know where to go anyway so I don't know maybe they're on to something there I I don't know if I'm a big fan of that but I can see the value and the utility for it though it it makes sense like would you like that Joel if you if you know you yeah if you could step up to a game and you're like okay within five games maybe I can build up well I almost look at it like a stream if I'm gonna stream for two hours there's a chance that I may be able to actually show off that final wizard mode yeah and maybe it takes me three streams of the game to finally spell it but at least I I can do that when I realize some of these things that are locked behind having that really perfect game for me you know I mean there's there's something to that that if you could put into the code that you hey Travis kid hi hi he looks like he just dude it's Friday is he not at school what's going you no he's home he's homeschool but he's being lazy right I didn't know that I'm on a podcast yeah sup dude sure okay sure man the respect you get in your hous is just the best but no I I think it would be interesting though if there was something in code for pinball machines to where you do a certain something for so long that you do start unlocking various things in the game that maybe it's not necessarily locked within or unlocked within the actual game but maybe like another option to play as you know because you kind of see that in console games right to where you get so far you might unlock like a new game plus or something like that so I'd be curious to see if pinball could actually do something similar to that in the future well Stern with their Insider connect right they're tracking progress on Venom so it shouldn't be too hard to track progress in other games I mean we could maybe they do something with that I don't know it would make sense I mean especially if you're trying to make it easier and more accessible for that because you look at it basically when you're putting out pinball anyways you're never putting out pinball for just the top 1% you want to put out pinball for the 99% for your average casual player that's going to collect games that's going to bring it in and going to play a few games here and there so you want to create that accessibility as much as possible that seems like the best way to do it Joel your game behind you I just saw that track mode animation I know we got everything going so yes I agree and so with with Elton John that that's the main structure and what Bill said because I said something I was like oh are you guys going to kind of do like with G&R where um if you haven't collected all seven band members by ball three you know if you can't spell Superstar or Elton John if you can't spell Elton John by ball three would you like gift letters or whatever and he was kind of he just looked at me he goes no he goes everything everything you get in Elton John you have to earn and I think that's actually very different from a lot of the other code uh the jjp code like this is going to be a like you're not going to mistakenly do anything you have to know what you're doing you have to shoot your shots you're going to work through the game um the two other multiballs that I knew were there's Croc Rock multiball very easy to do you hit a Target that says light lock you hit the scoop you do that two or three times and you're in that multiball and then the rocket man multiball um it's all about switch hits you have to gather fuel there are certain shots that you can get more fuel than others but it's just something you're going to do progressively fill up the rocket once the Rocket's full if you hit the rocket shot it will start a multiball if you stack the Rocket Man multiball and the Croc Rock multiball you get Croc roet multiball so that is in the Crockett man multi or it's Crockett multiball which is instead of having alligator animations and Rocket animations the alligator riding the rocket it's awesome it's awesome that's what everybody should do I don't know if it's viable for points or whatever but you want to see the crocodile on the rocket it's so great I mean it's jjp games though it's not really about the points necessarily it's always seem like it's about the experience about the fist pumps exactly about the fist pump about theic music about the lights you know but I don't know maybe this game maybe with Steve Richie it might turn into something that's more tournament Centric I don't know I mean games games don't have to be that at all you know but I'm I'm curious to see what would happen if that was kind of ated end where you understood risk reward a little bit more with it I mean was some of that in Godfather though like I I haven't got to play that too often but I know that there was risk reward in terms of you can leave a job yeah or you can keep grinding away at the job and then collect so that's built in there but I will say so my my Impressions I only played um I only played Elton John three times two at the two at the distributor thing and then one actually waiting in line where I beat Tom um but playing that playing playing the game and I know I'm in a unique situation being able to borrow games from Zach um to stream must be nice it's it is I love it and honestly real nice honestly this is a game that I'm I'm pumped like I'm excited to stream this game because one the music realizing like I've never I've never sought out nelton John song just to play but flipping through it's like I know a lot of these songs and it fits the the game really well so I know the energy will be there I like the way it shot I'm excited about the rules it's a beautiful experience like I'm I'm very excited to stream this game so if you're an Elon John fan I place buy one like I you're going to like the game um and I think this could be a unique experience for jjp with the way the rules are laid out it feels very different than a key for rule set um that we've had now or Joe Cat's rule set even um so that's my thoughts that's my thoughts um okay so what what other games were Expo then because we've already played Venom like we all know how venom does and that that was a new game that Stern has the only other Stern game that happened was the alvara blood red kiss but it was Edition right wasn't at Expo I think Tom bought four um no no I already have an alvir and it's colored so what you have the premium or the I have the premium yes yeah so is there as a Elvira owner yes is there any I mean this is now there was a like wasn't there a super limited edition when it came out and then there was a 40th Edition was an Le and a super Le I believe yep and then there's been a 40th 40th the 40th $5,000 yeah the 40th was pretty sexy but for the cost it was like No And then tr's dog is back this is how Monica is when when she's around too yep she bugs me to death she bre on now we have the blood red Edition where it's just all red the blood red Edition I saw it in person they had one sitting out at the stern factory tour the game looks incredible like it looks beautiful and it would absolutely stand out in your game room because it is black and white with that shiny red um so I don't know I I don't know how I feel for the for the for one for the people that forked over $25,000 for what they thought was the top end model this thing now looks really really cool and you can get it for 13 that's that would be hard that would be hard to kind of deal with do I blame Distributors no they're just selling games do I blame Stern you know if you have the license and it's a chance to make money I don't blame them for making money but at the same time it's it could piss off people there's no denying that uh beautiful looking game there's no could it is pissing off people I will I will tell you somebody it works for a distributor dealer it absolutely is but yes it is yeah but that's going to happen you know you if you put out a product that you already have an anniversary edition so we all saw the reaction to Jurassic Park right 30th and that was an anniversary edition so when they came out with the 40th Ann Edition there I mean people had the same reaction back then too it's just people forget that because it's already happened a few years ago and different editions have come out though for the past decade of various games whether you're dealing with like a Lucy ACDC Edition whether you're dealing with the Catwoman Edition for the Batman 66 you had those little trading cards with the signatures on it for there you know there's there's always been I think even like Monsters when they initially had the black and white Prem then a little while later they released Itor right so you know historically speaking this isn't something that's new but I definitely get why people are frustrated if they believe that they have the top end Edition already and they've quote unquote invested that money or at least paid that money into that machine and then they see other things coming out like imagine if yeah go ahead to it's just I understand why people get frust I thought it was strange when they came out with the 40th like people are still waiting for premiums oh yeah so like and then now it's like we're going to do this other Edition so it's like what's next when's the next Bond game going to come out that's a you know a different version gold finger Edition the gold finger Edition right yeah there'll be a be a Godzilla 70th Edition is gonna happen I I could yeah I it's it's clear that's the strategy is to dip back into the same Pond again and use a theme that you still have the rights to and use it any way that you can to try to generate more Revenue but at the same time you do have to be careful of doing that that you don't alienate your current base and it's it's not just your base that's buying oneoff games when you look at Le collectors it's the vast majority of them keep buying you get one person here and there that will try to find one because they're just the Ultimate Fan of a certain theme like we saw that with rush we seen that with other games as well but by and large somebody that's willing to spend the money for a limited edition pin is not going to be just a one-off customer there's a lot of long-term value for that potential customer to various companies and if you upset them that's that's not a good thing now your industry has to be large enough to be able to replace them the problem that we're seeing with pinball right now the past three years it did grow tremendously and you could replace them but we're currently at that ceiling that we're kind of seeing at this point we've reached the Apex of that growth we know that these Lees are going to have 500 to a th000 each so you know at some point you can only have so many out there in circulation to where you're you're presenting it in front of the same customer base that's willing to buy those game so I think it's one of those things where I hope everybody kind of Treads lightly with that because you have a lot of fans of certain themes you have fans that are loyal to a brand but if you do something to damage that loyalty like you gota you have to be careful about that so my question is you know Tom's a rush Super Fan right clear Rush Super Fan he was going to buy the high highest model he could buy for Rush even if it had one pop uper we've he's shaking his head he knows he's ready um I'm assuming there are people out there that are elv super fans they probably have you know a rush or no they probably have a hep restored uh scar scared stiff Hep restored elvir and the party monsters so my question is what does that buyer own did they go with the super Le and then it's like oh crap the 40th Edition should I trade that in by the 40th or now the blood red Edition it's like crap do I need a should I trade in my 40th and get the you know like those guys and I know or girls those people are the rare it's it's a very small group obviously that are that are having these internal struggles but it is it is weird it is it is a weird spot to be in where you feel like you have the best version and then all of a sudden you now have doubt and should I upgrade or change to get a different version our Market D dictates the best version yeah yeah yeah it well you know it's well Tom how would you feel though if there was a rush super Ellie that comes out within like two years from now how would how would you personally feel about that as somebody that has the rush I probably wouldn't be happy okay I I would just be like why are they putting this out now and right then there's a decision like okay I'm pretty happy with what I have do I upgrade but do I really need to upgrade because it's probably just going to be some you know change in artwork and uh some power powder coating I wonder if there will be buyers that instead of buying the When A Game's revealed they buy the premium and then if they love the game they tell the distributor put me on the list for the whatever the next model you know the next limited edition is of this game it's possible but you know what Tom just said there is something that if you look at any positives out of doing this type of strategy the potential positive of that is is you already have a built-in audience base or a built-in consumer base for that particular product for the people that want to keep buying upwards and keep escalating what they're what they're going to get but sure you got to be careful of that too because just like we talked about you're going to have the same buyers that are just going to be pissed that they don't want to go any higher that they thought that they already had the highest one and you know somebody like me I can tell you personally that I honestly I wouldn't really care that much if a super version of whatever game like Avengers comes out right I would probably just stick with what I have and just be like okay you know they're two separate things it just is what it is but like I said opinions are going to be all over the place here on that yeah but you don't want the opinions to go negative you don't want people to say well if there's a chance that my limited edition pin won't be the top tier version a few years from now why do I want to pay this amount of money for it now yeah right you know like you might as well wait if you're if you're going to do that you might as well buy a premium and then just wait and see and then yeah I mean and that's you run the yeah you run the risk of that happening and I can promise you I can promise you because I've heard from these people directly that is going to happen and will happen that's a dangerous spot to be in because you have to replace those consumers up front because the Lees are still going to go out right at the very beginning of a Cornerstone it's still going to go out question is is is many going to be adopted you know it's it's just like we saw with Venom not all the Le's got sold sold through so it's not like pinball is this mainstream thing let's be honest right y it's yeah it's an odd thing because it is big in terms of the amount of people that know about it that want to buy it but it's not big in the sense of people that trying to bring people in to become aware of it because it's it's awfully difficult to go to a an arcade and just play a couple of games and be like yeah I'm willing to spend $110,000 for one at home you know what I mean your average family is not going to do that in all reality there's got to be something else that hits them to want to do that it's always a process for the vast majority of people out there that buy pinball it is a process that lasts well over a year to go from Discovery to thinking about buying to becoming a high intent person to actually purchase a machine so it's it's awfully hard to get to that point and there's just a lot of factors coming in right now terms of more pinball showing up more companies showing up like the one that's right behind you Joel with Labyrinth more more manufacturing happening like Stern expanding more dealers coming in the game becoming even more worldwide more people watching on Twitch and YouTube than ever before so it's it's an interesting spot to see that I think things have to be careful in terms of pricing these types of people out because it is obviously I mean let's face facts you have to have money behind you to get these games I wouldn't encourage somebody to go in debt for for pinball or anything like that like spend what your budget is but you you just have to be careful about that about putting stuff out and and pissing off your base now that's willing to support you know if you think about it I don't know the percentages but let's just say it's even just 10% right let's say it's 100 Le buyers that decide that they're out you have to replace those people if you're if you're gonna sell through the consumers I yeah it's this a this is a new thing right the kind of a new strategy that Stern's doing and we're just gonna kind of have to see how it's they've been doing it for the better part of a decade a lot of people don't realize it they've been doing it for the reasons that we said earlier like with the ACDC Lucy Edition catw it's been happening so people that think that this is a brand new thing it's not it's just more highlighted right now because we see where the prices are at right and it's it's happening at a much faster clip it feels like at this point you know because like Jurassic Park it came out what in 2019 I think sometime around there 2018 maybe or maybe Iron Man was 2018 anyways it came out around there just about four years ago or so so so now we're at the point that anything that any theme that comes out or any theme that is currently in production it's almost like everybody's just going to look and see okay what's the anniversary coming up for this game is there potential that that's going to show up because that's obviously what the strategy is going to be you know Stern's not hiding that because they've done it now now they can make now that the production's getting bigger they can make more games let's throw out some new versions spice things up um yep yeah well okay so we are rapidly approaching two hours we still have a little bit more to cover here um so let's Rapid Fire Let's rapid fire these things I know so American pinwall American pin wall was there Galactic tank force was pretty much all they brought there was a ton of them I played it again they had the actors the actors were there um I played it again I didn't have the issues with the tank that we had at Texas pinball Festival where the ball was hopping or anything like that but I was still having issues with the left ramp on one of the games you could hit the left ramp all day long the other games it would it wouldn't even make it up there so there's one ramp in the game and if you can't hit the ramp to light locks to do certain things I don't know I I know there are some gtf owners out there that love this game and if I'm still my my view is if I stream it maybe I'd love it but um I just unfortunately my initial impressions of playing it a handful of times now have not been positive game looks great I like the theme I think it's a fun it it cooky game but um the layout really isn't drawing me in and when you have you know mechanical issues where you can't really progress through the game uh it's unfortunate so um I don't know thoughts any any other you go to that I mean it's it's gtf I I didn't go I didn't go over there to play it I had very little time in the hall so yeah you were you were crushing that stream I did go to the custom area though did you guys go to the custom there some cool home brew I played the uh eightball Beyond I thought that was really neat I that one had a line I wish I would have played it cuz I didn't realize it yeah people loved it people L it yeah there was a battle station it was like a head-to-head thing which was really a lot of fun to play um I don't know how well that would necessarily sell but it was really fun like a head head tohe head you're standing across from each other shooting against each other game um that could that could become something really cool um but if the cost was right was thr with that game for sure that was a lot of fun to play Monica just absolutely annihilated her I felt great about that that a boy poor mon that was fun over in that section and we can keep this short was uh pinball Adventures they had a py factory and they had an elements um I played one game on elements um uh the glass was off the entire game um the entire day when I looked over the glass was off not the guy was working on it no he was having people play it with the glass off so clearly I think the game was in a state where it was just easier to have the glass off so that he could do X Y or z um starting the game you go to hit the start button you know and you're hitting the start button the place where the start button is and there's a button there but that's not how you start the game you you you have to start the game by hitting the action button so I mean it was just like that was my I mean that was literally initial impression like how do how do we even start this thing um it you it was interesting that it was over in the home Brew section because I think you could have wheeled the game over and put it in the home brew lineup and it would have fit and that's not an insult to the home brew it just that's where it was at it's does not feel like a production game it feels like this is the beginning of what could become a game um it just it has long way to go elements elements yeah elements I did not play P Factory I had enough with elements I just you know there was an upper play field and honestly I shot it the ball shot up and it fell off so I just grabbed the ball and I set it back up on the upper play field because I wanted to see what the shots were up there right and um I don't know I'm not here to just bash but it was just it was it was really disappointing it was really disappointing um did you get to play that game Tom element I did not oh you missed out oh talk the there's a there was a ramp the sounds of it yeah and there's a a right like it's metal uh kind of habit Trail and you would normally expect that habit Trail to feed the inlane but instead The Habit Trail takes a hard turn to the left like a 90 degree turn and it spits the ball out into the middle of the Playfield yep across the play field horizontally cross the play field I think the goal is to hit a Target I believe was not doing that no no it was just dunking the ball to the left out lane and you were just D nice that was it so you hit the right r right ramp to left outlane that's pinball yeah so it no such thing as house balls Tris it could have been saved we tried it so I I played the game I think twice just to just to give it a whirl and yeah it's I I would highly recommend that they go back to the drawing board in terms of design overall I mean it's it's cool that people are trying to produce pinball but it's yeah I I don't understand like you know it'd be like Stern or Jersey Jack or another company just bringing a Whitewood in unfinished stage and being like hey what do you guys think of this you know yeah it just doesn't make a lot of sense to bring it to a show and have the glass off and it'd be a disaster it was just almost like they were wanting to get real world testing right but they weren't really advertising they have a sign like that's what I mean they weren't advertising so if you're just extreme casual you would have no idea what's going on like all of us that are like firmly into the pinball culture like we understood what was happening there but at the same time it's like if we were going to give honest feedback about it the honest feedback I would give is that you need to go back to the the design phase start over yeah yeah the Design's not going to work I mean it had a left orbit that was so impossible to hit like it would make even Josh Shar blush like it had a rubber that was just so fat that I told everybody around me I'll give you guys 10 bucks if you can hit that shot because it was like it was almost like you're playing a carnival game it was so like tight and somebody finally did I think Monica did out of all people but 10 bucks hell no I didn't give but yeah it was yeah we were probably legitimately like one for 20 something one for like it was a lot I never hit it once and it was just and I was aiming for it consistently and it was the way that they had the design with I guess there was some other left shot that kind of like did a little half candy cane real quick turnaround and would just come back out I'm not really sure what was going on there and then yeah the the upper play field with the Horseshoe below it's kind of like swords of Fury in a way they just combined everything up together and then yeah the right ramp return though that I mean I'll be honest that was the worst return I've ever seen it was insane machine yeah it was it was almost like and I told you guys this that if somebody came out with a camera crew and said you're being punked right now I would believe them I'd be like okay yeah this makes so much sense because it just it just fed the left outlane and just dunked it and there was no kick back there was no adjustments no nothing that's the problem I mean first first impressions are pretty much everything and you go and I mean even if you play a production game and the balls getting stuck and you know that's not a good thing in pinball y i I mentioned to you when I walked up to Labyrinth my initial thing was I wanted how did it feel right how did it feel and you walk up to that and it felt like it was going to fall apart like they brag about on their website you know they're using this Canadian Birch or something super high-end wood like it's just the cabinet didn't feel good you look at it it's just like the overall it just the build quality just was not great flipper everything everything that I said Felt Good On lath was the opposite with this I I will say I did play puny Factory and I will say the flippers there felt a lot better they were strong I not really gonna comment on the game too much other than I played it once and that was good enough for me it's just not not something I'm interested in playing anymore but you know their flippers over there did feel better and you could hit the shots over there it was just very much elements was a glorified Whitewood is what it was and we were all doing a beta test you know AC of happening there but yeah it was happening it it definitely after playing some of the Homebrew games it wasn't even on the level of some of those over there I mean it just wasn't just to be honest and so hopefully they can take the feedback that they got they can course adjust or whatever you call it they can do something a little bit better and they can um you know get something decent out of it I guess if they're going to keep putting pinball out there you know it's just I mean it's it's tough overall but if you're gonna so here's the hardest part guys if you're going to put out pinball and you know you can't manufacture like at a massive scale and you know you're not going to make thousands of them your game has to be extremely accessible and we keep saying that you know over and over again at this it has to be the shots have to be doable for people it has to make sense for people because if your game is a brickfest you're like you're done just not the game has to be designed for the Casual if if the shots aren't going to draw your in and you're it's unthe there's no theme drawing you in there's nothing about that game that's that's pulling you in to play another game and yeah but I that's probably more than enough time that we probably said I mean they yeah that's just where that company's at um Joel Joel's saying let's move on well I'm just send the game to Joel make Joel stream it so we I'm going to Rapid Fire here through a list because there's really one more game I want to talk about in detail but it's um other stuff for there cgc there was a bunch of cactus Canyons Pulp Fiction is still great had good lines there um pinball Brothers was there with alien there's the new Ripley uh code I've I've seen her she is in the code that was there Dutch pinball was there with big Labowski big Labowski still a very cool game um that was that's big Labowski played very very well um I think that's it besides Turner pinball Turner pinball um for all the manufacturers I don't think I'm forgetting anything or any other new games but Turner pinball ninja Eclipse right ninja eclipse is that what it is oh spooky was there they had some Scooby-Do they those all sold those played played well um it was good seeing bug in that crew is that your ninja look Tom nin so ninja eclips a few things so first off Turner pinball they're the people that bought a ton of the assets from Deep RP I think they were initially like the design team with some of the code with deep root so there's kind of a weird thing there but now they're their own thing um so this game they redesigned the cabinet there's no coin door the idea here is if this game was on location you pay for the game through an app and somehow the app would work with the bar that it was at for something so they've kind of redesigned trying to bring it into the digital world I don't know I don't know what they're doing there I mean I mean that's no Travis saying no well it goes square against what I just said five minutes ago it's not accessible it's not accessible If somebody walks up with a quarter yeah and they're just like where do I put how do I put money in game how do I put how do I they're just GNA start hitting buttons oning yeah so because I didn't go over there I had no idea the game is the depth of the cabinet is a lot shorter there's no coin door so the depth of the game is a lot shorter so the legs look long the depth of the game looks shorter and because the way they built the game the game feels way lighter I went to nudge and I like threw the game across the room I mean it it moved so you know you think you're used to whatever you're thinking like oh I'm going to move this half in an inch this thing moved literally a foot and it so it felt like a zizzle it felt like man okay this is a higher up version of a of a of a zizzle or like this is so I'm thinking like if this is in the $5,000 range they may have a market here to or like four or five and I was playing with Zach and Zach laughs he's like this is a $10,000 game like this game costs as much as a Stern premium what yeah so 10,000 that alone yeah it's just like nope like I just there's for Ninja eclipse for Ninja eclipse the layout was the same layout that we played at tpf when it was a Whitewood they've tweaked some little things the there's a side ramp it's the widest side ramp I've ever seen M but just hitting it was rough because of the way the layout works yeah so it's just one of those things exactly what you're talking about with pinball um pinball Adventures where the theme isn't going to draw you in yeah the the code isn't going to draw you in and the layout there wasn't anything in that layout that was like oh I want to shoot that shot again I want to experience this again so it just it's a similar thing if they sat me down and they're like what do you think the only thing they crushed was the art they hired Matt Andrews the guy that did Weird Al art and total TNA's art they add him to the art the art looks great the animations even look good but it's just it was a similar like I don't know what I'm doing the game isn't explaining what I'm doing and these shots aren't particularly fun the flippers feel odd feels like a toy and it just so with the coin thing or with the bar or whatever it's obvious that they're trying to do something Innovative right yeah but what problem are they trying to solve you know cuz to me it's like if you're going to innovate you're doing it for a reason to further something and to solve a problem right to make ease of access or something like that but I don't like what problem exactly are they solving with that or is it just innovating just to innovate I just know you know like in Japan you can pay for everything with your phone you vending machines everything so I don't know if it's this idea of how do we get more people to use their phone for you know and that well that part makes sense in terms of tapping and everything but the problem is you just have one game right so it's like people aren't going to adopt it so it's almost like do you just make that because you're hoping Stern or Jersey Jack decides to to back system but the problem is that system is only relevant to locations and we all know Stern is the ones that rules everything when it comes to location pinball yeah so feel fresh there you go I don't I don't see any other reason to be using something like that like I don't understand that Innovation how that makes it any easier for people it's not a good it's just it's not you know people are upset that like American pinball had like squiggly back boxes I'm just like this game will not look good in a lineup in any way like this game if you have that weird spot in the corner of your basement that Nothing fits in maybe put it there but it just I don't get it I don't get it you know props on them trying something new but it just to me what I thought was insane was that barrels of fun Turner pinball and pinball Adventures are kind of all in the same spot or the all same position of trying to get into this industry and establish himself as a reputable manufacturer and you have pinball Adventures that feels like a low-end home brew you have this Turner pinball that it just doesn't it feels like a high-end zizzle and then you have this which actually feels like a legit game and it's and but the key there is Turner Pinball it's just a bunch of guys that are new to pinball and they fell in love with it because deep group hired them I don't know what's going on with pinball Adventures but barels of fun that's a team of people that have been working in pinball that all left their other positions all left previously what they were doing came together and decided to start their own thing and that experience shows so I don't know I played one game and I'm I'm good that was it that was the the market will talk it'll it'll speak it'll accept whatever these companies are bringing and yeah they'll either accept it or they'll decline it and we'll see pretty quick within the next year to two years how that plays out now the biggest part is though like we talked about manufacturing your game could look great but you have to be able to produce the game but if your game looks not great and you have a hard time producing it you you don't have a company then you just you just don't you know so I don't know hopefully everybody figures it out and hopefully I mean because we all we obviously we all want everybody to succeed like it absolutely sucks starting a business and it doesn't go the way that you want it and you hear the negativity and all that like that does absolutely suck but we still I think pinball pinball in general it does good to at least be honest about what these situations are and hopefully they all take it to heart hopefully people are giving them the right feedback but yeah I just I I don't that's a head scratcher to me with in terms of what Turner's doing with trying to do something Innovative in that way I would just I would just rather see a game play well I don't I don't even care about world underglass or all this and that like I just want to see the shots do something cool you know I want I want to feel like a boss hitting shots let's say that I mean Labyrinth the only Innovation they put in this game is that display in the bottom so they didn't try they didn't try to revolutionize pinball like and even then that doesn't look like that that was the first like their first idea with it because it's partially blocked by some other stuff like I feel like that that was put in like due to them not being able to do something else like when I look at it so it works well but I get what you're saying but I I don't know I would just say looking ahead um the only thing that's going to slow down the hype train of Labyrinth is if they have manufactur in issues so that's definitely something to watch over next few months and then all the other manufacturers I just don't American pinball I don't know what's going on with with u with gtf I know they went big at Expo but I just there there were no lines they had a ton of them there but it's just to see this huge line for Labyrinth to see huge lines for Elton John you could it just overall it just seemed like people were just okay it's still here there's no such thing as a relaunch of a game yeah when the game's out it's out people have already station yeah they're already there it's the only time there were lines for there were lines for pul fiction you know there were six games and there was but that game that that game's not out to Consumers yet we're all still waiting for it you know I mean where is it yeah Jos sharp where is it Jos sharp he's working on the cgc he's working on the caus canyon code that's what he's doing that's a whole another issue that's a whole other manufacturing issue as well so it just you know and then what pulp does does very well though like okay if we're going to directly compare gtf and Pulp right which theme's better like yeah the gtf theme is hilarious yeah pul fiction you look at the way the shots are which feels better shooting yep you know what I mean when you look at what draws you in without having to really do anything that's super Innovative like what just draws you in it's going to be Pulp Fiction you know I think what pulp does really well and what I'm a big fan of of pinball in general is when it can take assets directly related to the theme in terms of call outs to where you don't have to have a voice actor come in from the show or from the movie to do any type of custom pinball call outs to where you just do you pull call outs directly from the source and you're able to apply it to a particular shot or to a particular scenario because everybody that loves the theme you already recognize that you already have an emotional investment in that scene in that saying in that dialogue in that actor so if you can do something like that I think that that's a winning combination when it comes to really creating just an atmosphere for somebody to enjoy with the pinball machine I agree no there's um yeah there's some good stuff there and that's what I'm saying looking at the horizon horizon here between now and the end of the year you know it'll be with Stern it'll be at the end of the year I'm assuming the next game will be announced probably December end of December early January that's kind of their thing so we're going to kind of be waiting there American pinball I'm not I don't know if anything's gonna happen there Elton John I think they're I don't think they're on the line yet so it's probably going to be November I mean we're almost done with October so maybe late November before those start getting out um labyrinths hopefully these are trickling out uh spooky I would I think they're nearing the end of Scooby-Doo production so I have I would assume sometime time soon their next game will be um discussed um so yeah there's there's a lot of good stuff that just happened that was just announced it was a fun Expo a lot of fun things to play and more to come is really all all I can say there um the last thing we do need to discuss is the um the tournament the tournament that was at Expo Tom you streamed it you streamed the whole thing um uh what was it who won that did eer win that too yeah we kind of touched on that before but yeah so he won the tournament and the stern PR soer had a great week is whater won two new and box games in like five days plus plus some money plus a lot of money he's he's doing well and a belt he got a belt too andig belt tile and he let Travis and I take a picture with them holding this check so from the uh from the uh anything else you want to say about the stream any anything uh well you did it all from a hot spot so congrats on that that we were worried about that for the part y yeah for the most part it worked it did have some hiccups but I was surprised at how well it worked honestly um and you know we'll we'll see what happens next year sure well it was fun it was fun to watch and it was fun to I loved I loved it I loved commentating um I hope the the viewers while I was commentating enjoyed it because my view was you know I was basically interviewing the people next to me like okay Raymond you they're playing Iron Maiden that what's your goal how are you attacking this when you step up to it and then hearing what he said and there was one point where it was Jurassic Park and I was sitting between uh Eric Stone and I think it was either Dalton or Rob buers but I said the same thing okay what are you guys doing and whoever was doton or Rob buyer said oh I'm getting it was Rob I'm getting into my mode I'm getting through that that way I can lock out you know immediately um hit get into a control room and try to work on that and Eric's like no like that's not he goes on this game you go Raptor pin the whole time that Raptor that Raptor multiball the points that you can get in that are just silly and like hearing them discuss their mentality and then watching the person what they're doing um it was really neat it was really a lot of fun um so I I really enjoy funny about that um the I think it the last game was on Jurassic Park and Usher I think aser was down quite a bit to Dalton and he Asher literally went to the Raptor pin the entire time and I was just like wow and uh I I was I I wasn't in the booth at the time so I was kind of in and out and I was talking to Josh sharp and Adam leof and uh Josh is like he's on his third Raptor and I was like what wow like I didn't even know you could do that well yeah so it was it was a cool way to learn that's the one thing if if anybody wants to learn more about pinball watch tournament streams um and especially with good commentating um you can learn a ton about the games you can learn a ton about the games um and what what's going on or what to do so expo's probably one of the best ones to watch too yeah in terms of some of the best players well there's yeah there's several reasons one you do have some of the best players in the world two you see that player come back up more often since it's not a four-player game in you know what I mean you're going to see it heads up base so that's good and then on top of that the games are set up pretty favorable so you're going to see players get deep into the game you're going to see the correct openings you're going to see the correct mid game decisions happen so if you're ever trying to figure out out what you're supposed to do on a game those streams by far are the most valuable that you're going to find just in a s because you just watch what they do and then you just try to copy it just at the beginning just do that and you'll be fine just like we're talking about Jurassic Park right there you watch that you're going to see two you're going to hear two different opinions on how to do it and I imagine if you watch Dalton eer play it you're GNA see two different versions of how to play it because Raptor pen all day is a very viable strategy when you're especially if you're playing heads up and you can handle the return to it whenever you're trying to knock down the Raptor pin or trying just to boost it up yeah I I think that that's that's interesting too just to be able to see the different strategies and see that there's different ways to skin that cat so I encourage everybody out there if you want to learn pinball those would be the best streams to watch yeah which sounds like a perfect transition to plugs plugs so um unless there was anything else you guys felt we needed to cover no we definitely missed in 15 minutes was enough I mean we said Rand one UK open so we're good like that's the only thing we make you know comment it on Facebook we'll hit it next time there's there's always more to talk about but um yeah let's plug it up Tom you go for it uh when I'm not here on Triple drain podcast uh you can find me on Fox City's pinball on Twitch and YouTube Instagram and Facebook perfect um Travis yeah you guys can find me on this podcast triple bra pinball podcast and hopefully next time I will actually have my studio all set up and then you guys can also find me on the pinball company's YouTube channel yeah this is this is excellent right here I mean yeah quality backd the bean bag yeah crushes your Cactus Canyon where's the do where CJ that's what I yeah get the dog back he need more CJ this definitely check out check out Fox City's YouTube Tom has a lot of really good videos there and then Travis is putting out more and more content on the pinball company uh with tutorial videos and I know you had a really good video on like how to win your Venom um which we have to update because there's a new which completely nerfed completely Nerf now so new V launch party which is really good but no it's really cool stuff um and then yeah I'm I'm jool I do the the the fliping out stream every Wednesday from 10: to midnight check that out obviously check out this podcast um but we're trying to do more stuff on the fliping out YouTube channel as well um with content which is fun and I have to say a huge thank you to everybody that came up to us at the show I know all three of us had different people saying they were fans of the show um kind of an unreal moment for me which was hilarious was um Dwight Dwight did this uh seminar um and it was this uh it was Let's Make a Deal and I went in there and I actually was talking to Keith elen beforehand I sit down Keith ellwin sits down next to me we're talking this guy walks up and he looks at both of us and he goes uh I just I just want to say I'm a huge fan of both of what you guys do I love your content Keith uh Jurassic Park is a forever pin for me uh thank you thanks for what you guys do and like walked away and I'm like how in the world did I just get involved in that you know like you can absolutely in that situation skip over me and go to Keith and thank him for what he's done so it's just stuff like that which is really neat I'm glad that the content that we're making is enjoyed and appreciated uh it's nowhere near on the level of Designing uh you know one of the best pinball machines ever made like Keith Owen but um I'm happy I'm happy that people that people like it um so thank you thank you for everybody that that yeah you hear that listeners boost Joel's ego every chance you get no I just feel like that was a situation where you can you can ignore me entirely like that's that is totally what you're trying to say is is it is very humbling when people Inc and we we definitely appreciate it and we're all willing to talk pinball with everybody here we don't take anybody out there for granted at all yeah or people like families like um you know I talked to um there was a a woman there that was wearing a triple drain shirt and you know she's like I love the podcast you're my favorite podcast my son watches your streams you know and it's just like it's it's crazy it's crazy what that is and my brother came on the Saturday and for this was his first like pinball experience outside of my basement pretty much and he loved it I mean everybody was new like was kind to him and and wanted you know the fact that he could have these conversations uh with fans or with people in the industry like he really walked away with a big old smile on his face which was really neat so um thank you for everybody that that it made a really fun experience a really fun experience you did just remind me Joel and hopefully they're still listening out here I didn't catch their name but you know how I was wearing my Elgato no signal hoodie yeah hoodie yeah somebody overheard me talking and they said you sound just like that guy from that podcast and I'm like do I yeah that that's cool well yeah I didn't even say like you didn't say you were so if you're listening that's great because they never watch the Youtube at all that's awesome that's awesome well to that guy he tricked you you were talking to him yeah it was me the whole time it was me the whole time yeah Travis is a douche that's what he should have said he's like man I really like that Tong guy I just wish I wish Travis would shut up a little bit he probably said something good about you Joel and I was just like okay yeah we're done with this interaction we're done with that no that's cool well I think that's that episode 44 we can we can check that box we've been checking boxes left and right but um hey obviously leave a comment if you're watching the YouTube video if we missed anything or um hit us up on Facebook even if you just want to leave an emote in the comments you know that's fair yeah yeah just put that's fair in the put that's fair put a dog emote because CJ's probably the best thing that's ever been on camera on this on this stream hey but my camera stayed up this whole your camera you did it you did it that said take a shot every time the camera goes off all of our listeners are sober right now that that works all right well like always uh Tom you get the last words thanks everybody