Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, January 27th. This is episode 80, and I am Tony. I'm Dennis. Happy one-year anniversary. Except it's not one year. It's three years. Three years. I think it's our third year. I think so. We just finished the third year? Is that it? No, we're starting the third year. We're starting the third year. Because we started in 16. It was three years ago, yes. 17, 18, so yeah. Math is fun. Math is fun. Math is hard. So what's going on, Tony, before we get going? We actually have a few items to talk about today. A few? It's exciting. At first I wasn't sure there'd be a whole lot. Yeah, it kind of, some of it came out of nowhere. Some of it I've been looking for some stuff during the week, but there's nothing been big enough that I actually cared about. Yeah, and this is normally a lull for video games. You have that quiet late winter period where you don't see a ton of releases. Really, until Anthem comes out, and everything kind of moved out of Anthem's way. Yeah, because it's been prepped for so long. We'll see how badly that crashes and burns. but I've been doing pretty good it's weird it's not really been a great year so far we're a month in this is I started the whole year with the whole this year will be better than next year the whole this and that and holy crud has it not but I'm still in a relatively good place and rolling with things pretty happily. But, jeez, I really had higher hopes for this year. Three weeks in, and I'm already at the point where it's like I have. You're kind of bringing it off in a way. I'm getting there. You're like, it's all right, but it's not good kind of. Yeah, yeah. I'm exhausted. I've been exhausted. Everything work-wise is so busy. It was fun last week. We went to Pizza West. That was great. All the pros are at the SCS. Yeah. We lasted a long time. I mean, it all ended, like, by eight. Right, it was great. Because there were so few people. I stayed in way longer than normal. That was fun. It was fun. And there were a lot of good people there, and we had a lot of good conversations. That's right. Holy heck, was it empty. It was weird, comparatively. I could hear the games. Yeah, that was weird. There were 11 players, and until it all got going right at the start, I did not realize how much more I prefer rooms without them being full of people. I almost could forget at pinball. It's so much better with fewer people. I hate saying that because I want more and more people to come and play. But on the flip side, I'm not bumping into people. It was easy to switch from game to game. There were open games all over the place. So it wasn't like normally there. I think with seven games, it wouldn't be too bad. But if you've got 20-some people, basically everyone's on the classic because it's the only thing tearing everyone apart fast enough. And so that was nice. I could even hear the little train that goes around. The first time I heard that, that night, I was like, what the heck was that? Oh, I could actually hear that today. I mean, yeah, it was nice. I mean, I don't have the crowd problem. I know some people have problems with crowds. I most definitely do not have a crowd problem. But it was still different. And it was nice. Well, I guess we go into pinball news. We actually do have a number of items to hit on. Yeah. The only other intro thing which relates to pinball news that I guess I'll note, there won't be a link in the show notes because this episode will be up first. But earlier today, I recorded this week in pinball podcast with Zach Mini, who people know from straight down the middle. And now apparently from flipping out pinball because he's a distributor now. I did make fun of that repeatedly because conflicts of interest need to be pointed out by me at all levels. Well, yeah, no, that's definitely understandable. But anyway, so that'll come out at some point on Monday, I'm sure. So speaking of news, first things first, Suncoast Pinball. We don't really, I think I've mentioned them one time. We talked about them when the announcement was first made, just like we did with Great Lakes Pinball. when they first made the announcement, we did a brief talk about it. And Great Lakes Pinball actually technically was in the news over the last couple of weeks. They revealed some art on their upcoming game, but I have no interest in talking about it, so I'm not. But Suncoast Pinball, also related to art, but, well, I mean, what am I going to do? Just grab a drawing on it? Right. That's why I don't want to talk about it. It's obvious that they're not doing the game I said they should have put out. It's not the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. No, it wasn't. I bet that was their number two, though. I bet that was awesome. If it's Great Lakes Pinball, it's got to be. You'd think, but I don't know. We live with a lot of disappointment in this hobby. Dirty Donnie, known primarily for the hand-drawn art he did for Stern's Metallica. He's done a number of games since then, but a lot of people sort of identify Dirty Donnie's work on Metallica as the start of the renaissance of hand-drawn art of a high caliber being used in pinball. which is a wonderful welcome thing yes so Suncoast Pinball which is making a game called Cosmic Carnival has hired Dirty Donnie to do the art for that game I have a link in the show notes to the article on this with This Week in Pinball because there's an entire interview with Suncoast Pinball that's what the article is, it's an interview with them and what they're thinking I'm sure that will be, obviously that's a positive Dirty Donnie is his Pabst Can Crusher art is awesome his Aerosmith art was awesome people love Metallica I guess it'll help them sell games I say that because Cosmic Carnival is the one where if you look at the layout it's very symmetrical double ramps in the same spots there's like a center stand up and to me I see that and I think that that doesn't look very fun to shoot and Dirty Donnie ain't gonna fix that right but there are symmetrical games that are okay Just like there are wide bodies that are okay. So maybe there's something that can be, maybe it will be better than I'm thinking. But when I look at the Whitewood, I don't think art will fix it. But I don't think art will fix anything, but good art will take a game that is okay and make it something you actively want to play. Hmm. I could see that, but that's about getting that first quarter in, I guess. Right. after that. Right, that's why I'm saying a game that's okay as opposed to a game, now if it's a game that has no actively good reasons to shoot it, then it doesn't matter how good the art is. I mean, it doesn't look like it will, like I look at the layout and it doesn't look to me like it will flow bad or anything. I just really question this very symmetrical look. It's very EM. It feels like, I mean, that's a good way to make sure that your flippers will both have the same amount of work to do. Yeah. And some people like that. Some people really like symmetrical games and symmetrical gameplay. It's an end to R&D though. It is. And it may be a market they want to cater to. Kind of like how Total Nuclear Annihilation was, in a way you could argue it was an attempt to cater to people who wanted that single level 80's style gameplay. And it may be successful like Total Nuclear Annihilation was. It depends on what their goals are. TNA's sale count is probably not successful from a Stern perspective. It's very successful from a Spooky's perspective. Right. For Suncoast, I have no idea. Are they wanting to sell 500 of these or 5,000? Well, considering it's going to depend upon the kind of money that they have involved and the kind of money they're expecting out. Yeah. So we'll have to wait and see. But it's pretty big news that Dirty Donnie is getting back in the pinball design artwork field and with a different company this time. I'm not too – I mean, that they work on contracts. So I'm not overly surprised about that. Just in a way, it's an upstart. And so he's giving them a go. Which is good. I mean, I think that's better than a lot of the little startups that have come in where they're just rolling with anything they can put together. Bringing in an artist. If they didn't bring in a high-level designer, bringing in an artist at least gives them a good – it opens the door just a little bit for them. But one of the things that was noted in the interview is Suncoast does plan to have two machines ready in time for Texas Really? Yes Well now I'm really looking forward to And they think that those two games will have the Dirty Donnie artwork on it So they're not going to be just Whitewoods or stand-ins What's the word I'm looking for? It's not stand-in Prototype Yeah It's not going to have like filler on it That's a good point because they have a, I guess they have an in-house graphic designer, Nate Sutherland, I believe is his name. And he and the owner, I guess, were who came up with the Cosmic Carnival theme. So I always assume they're going to use an in-house artist, but maybe he's going to be involved with like the display and stuff. Could be. There's a lot of different aspects. So, but anyway, so this will be fun because regardless of what I may stereotype the game at, when I look at the Whitewood, I naturally want to try it. Right. And we'll be able to review it after Texas because we're going. Yes. Yay, Texas. Speaking of yay, let's do a 180 on that. Well, it's yay for justice. John Trudeau. Yeah. Guilt. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. 13 years ISO cubes. No, it's not that much time. Yeah. All right. So there were a couple of court cases. I have links in the show notes to the two pinball news articles that have been covering this so you can read up all about it that you want the first that got done with and this happened I believe last week was the child pornography possession charges he pleaded guilty by stipulation of facts on those which is an interesting I wasn't really familiar with that I'm familiar with saying doing a no fault or a no contest when you do no contest you don't admit guilt that you're essentially accepting the guilty so this is accepting the truth of the facts as they were presented but not actually admitting guilt I don't even see how that works functionally it is guilt it's some weird lawyer thing that I don't know gives them some extra whatever the only thing I can think of is But beyond, aside from that, could be based off of minimum sentencing provisions, there may be a differential between admitting full guilt and then just saying, I admit that all the facts you're saying are true. And I have no comment beyond that. I don't know. Yeah, that was weird. Bottom line is, it is a guilty, just like a no contest is. Right. You lose. Right. You lose. It's guilt. It's just weird because a no contest is basically like, well, I'm not saying you're right, but I'm not going to fight it. I'll just take it. And this is very much like, oh, you're right, but I'm not going to say you're right. Yeah. I don't know. It's just one of those weird law things. It's, yeah. Well, as I do a quick searching here, it looks to me that guilty by stipulation of facts is essentially no contest. maybe it's called different things in different jurisdictions but it's admitting so it's admitting to the facts of the case without admitting guilt and it looks like in most of the cases I can tell there's a general sense though it's not always true that if you do a no contest or a stipulation guilt that that might help you in a civil case it seems to be more so in misdemeanors though and maybe and I don't some of these charges are clearly felonies so and that in terms of being able to introduce them as fact. Anyway, it's too complicated. I'm not an attorney. So I'm guessing he was probably advised to do that if it was an option because it may give him some other protections later on. If anything else, if anyone comes after him civilly, that might be the case, versus it actually influencing what his guilty plea got him in terms of time. Speaking of which, that was pretty limited. So he got a little bit of time. He's expected to be out by March 2020. So not a whole lot there. The other aspect that was included with that time was in a separate hearing, he did plead guilty to abusing a child. But some of the charges associated in that set of the more serious ones were dismissed. He like pled to the weakest charge. and so anyway pretty standard kind of play out thing yeah happened yeah and i remember that that one was uh i think something that from the 90s that was that was brought up and i am i'm imagining there's no statute of limitations on that sort of abuse so that's why it was viable and there was probably a witness would be my guess but regardless i well he won't spend much time in prison, I highly doubt we'll ever see John Trudeau make another pinball game. Yeah. I don't know, though. People give lots of second chances in pinball. But maybe we've finally reached the limit? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe we've found what the limit is, but somebody will... I don't... I don't know. I... Yeah, no. Anyway, we might not have to talk about this one anymore. That would be nice. Yeah. So, let's talk about some other drama. Ben Heck drama I think I could have played this it's a drama llama episode so it's not just the stuff from last week or the week before there's newer stuff now too it's a mix of things it's not all drama in the negative sense for example let's open with a more optimistic thing online I think it was on Twitter Keith P. Johnson or Kiefer some people call him who is one of the programmers with Jersey Jack Pinball. He did the code on Pirates. He did the code on Hobbit. Keith and Ben were corresponding on social media, and Keith made some remarks to Ben that suggested that Jersey Jack Pinball might be willing to entertain bringing Ben on board at their shop. So, see, that's sort of drama, but I'm possibly happy if you're a fan of Ben. either his code or his mechanical work. He's done a lot of mechanisms. That's what he's known for. Yeah, no, that's interesting. There's nothing wrong with that. That sounds like a very... It's a happy drama. Yeah. Then there's the less happy drama, the more what we think of as true drama. So there was talk as well coming from Ben about... He basically seemed to leak that the game he was working on that he left was supposed to originally be Evil Dead. And that license cost, some aspect of it, was too high. Ben had commented in the past that he felt that Spooky should have just done an LE model as well and then used that additional upcharge to fund the additional license costs. As you may recall, Charlie Emery, who owns Spooky, indicated after Rob Zombie that they were moving to a one-model approach and didn't want to do L.E. So obviously that runs counter to what Charlie's intents were. But it seemed pretty clear that Ben thought an Evil Dead pin would be really cool and that it was a mistake for Spooky not to pursue it. What are your thoughts on Evil Dead as a pinball machine, Tony? Because we've never talked about that. I think Evil Dead would be an awesome pinball machine. I think so too. And I think it would fit into the kind of theme line that Spooky has. I mean, Marius was haunted, Rob Zombie. They're all kind of horror-ish. I always thought that was their plan. Everything else they've done has been contract work. Or Scott Danesi, but Scott Danesi doesn't work for Spooky. They brought in his contract design. Everything else that they've done in-house has been Spooky. It can't be or serious. It doesn't matter. Right. So, no, I think in that case, it's a license that deeply interests me. I think it could have a lot of fun. uh with it and yeah no i can see where there could be a licensing cost issue do you think do you agree with ben that they should have done this instead of alice cooper interesting i yeah actually i think i do i think it would have had a bigger draw I agree I agree with Ben that I think Evil Dead is a better license to have done regardless of what his plans were with it just on the license that I think it would have been smarter than Alice Cooper I don't agree with him that it's necessarily so good that the license fee should have been met no matter what I don't know what the additional cost was. So it's hard to say. But telling the owner that you should just find a way to make it work makes you... I don't want it to be Beatles-fied where it's sort of like, what's a million dollars? You get a perfectly fun, more than perfectly fun, very enjoyable Beatles pinball machine, but the price is so high, I would never entertain buying one. Even though it's a fun game. Because there's so much of that license cost in that. You have to pay premium for a game that's a pro. Yeah. I mean, that's what you have to do. Right. That's definitely an issue. Anyway, Charlie Henry responded online, I believe on, I think it was on Pinside, to Ben's comments. Charlie's always sort of stayed quiet about the, you know, Ben's sort of taken pot shots from the sidelines for a long time now, criticizing the whole, everything with the whole, what happened with his game at Spooky, really. Right. Right, and I can understand. The theme choice, the delays. I can, and I, yes and no. Right, I'm not saying I agree with him, but I can understand why he would be upset over everything that happened. Yeah, I can too. I don't know. It's weird. It's hard. Well, venting publicly is not a smart maneuver. It just makes sense. I'm amazed Jersey Jack would entertain bringing in someone who's clearly shown a willingness to just rant about internal matters at a drop of a hat because didn't like how everything went that would be a concern of mine right and i make a hiring decision if i know someone has a reputation of not keeping things in house that's a problem for me i don't work in pinball but it's still a problem because you don't want you don't want drama about this sort of stuff getting out there. Secondly, while I do sympathize with the frustrations, it's like there are multiple ones at this point. The game being delayed. Okay, well, but total nuclear annihilation was doing really well from a business perspective. It's really hard to say. And I get that it probably stings that this outside designer came in and did something better than was ever done in-house. And you might take that personally, but the numbers don't lie. People wanted total nuclear annihilation. They wanted it more than anything else Spooky's done. Yeah, definitely. They still do. Yeah, that's definitely one of those situations where it's not a direct slight. It's not somebody sitting here saying, it's not like get good, noob. It's just business. There's so much demand for total nuclear annihilation. Something has to be delayed. And how could you really delay Alice Cooper? It was further along. Right. So I get why it's annoying, but they didn't make, they didn't fire him. They didn't make him leave. He chose to. And that was one of the things that Charlie commented on was that Ben was constantly quitting, always saying he was quitting. And then he finally actually really did quit. So now you've got the second, you know, you've got the other side of the story. And the other side of the story is saying, this is someone who, when they don't get their way, threatens to quit constantly. I've worked with people like that. So now it doesn't, I mean, I think it makes Ben look bad. Overall, I think he gets the short end of this. Oh, no, no. Because he was the one complaining publicly, he becomes the gadfly. And then Charlie comes in and says it was worse behind the scenes. While still trying to say, you know, we still want Ben to come back. We didn't want him to leave. But this stuff about him not being listened to, I offered him ownership in the company. and he turned it down because he was making more money doing other stuff. I mean, he kind of piled on and Charlie kind of bit back. Yeah, I think it was already looking bad for Ben before Charlie came in because he looked like, I don't want to go so far as to say he looked like a crybaby, but it was pretty close. I mean, he was mewling in public. Right. And here's the thing when it comes to leaks, in my view. If you want to reveal the behind-the-scenes stuff, it needs to be things that affect the customer so they feel like you're protecting them. You have to come out like a whistleblower. Right. This isn't like a whistleblower. This is someone just showing the inside dynamics and how they felt slighted. But they've listed so many slights that it looks petty. It's not like I got cheated out of getting paid for a game. or something. He got paid for it again. He didn't have anything that looked shady. Everything that he's complained about, if I had done the same work, I completely get why he's mad, but I would have kept my mouth shut about it, because it doesn't do any good. What if he wanted to go back later? Burn that bridge. I think so. Charlie's still suggesting, I thought that was the weirdest part in Charlie's response, is still suggesting that they're willing for Ben to come back. I think I was trying to like, dude, no way. I think that's just being nice. Yeah, but it's so nice that it almost comes across as fake to me because I don't believe it. Right, that's what I mean. I think he was just saying that to be nice. This many months in this public, it felt fake nice, which is worse than just being mean. No one likes plastic nicety. This ain't Barbie girl. slightly related but this item will be in the upcoming this week in pinball ben also had uh has made some uh remarks regarding that he had been working on a monty python and the holy grail design i guess the issue there was a licensing deal couldn't be secured because one of the original like everyone in monty python has to agree on things and i guess one of them has Dimension at this point, so nothing's really moving forward with that. But that he would have had a Black Knight as the main toy. And the way he was coming up with the design is it would use a series of motors and it would basically rip the limbs off of the Black Knight as he got hit. So I thought I'd ask you, what would you think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail pinball machine as a theme? I think it'd be really good. And I think that mech seems like an obvious mech. I mean, obviously, it would be cool. It seems like an obvious thing to put in there. That and the bunny and the bridge and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't know if the Black Knight has to be the main thing. There were a lot of iconic elements. I know everyone likes to quote him, but people like to quote the knights who say knee all the time. The rabbit is always what I think of personally. Things with sparrows being laden and all that. There are a lot. There's so much. There is so much. I think there's a lot you could do with the theme. I don't think it's a smart theme from a selling standpoint it's a cult classic movie I don't know how broad it's popularity is in the pinball, I don't know how the Venn diagram stacks I know a lot of people who don't like Monty Python a lot of Americans don't like that right, but how do you think it would stack up with the whole nostalgia play type thing compared to say Monsters I would, I have not monsters is probably smarter because it was brought it was in syndication everywhere even though monsters means nothing to me and i'd rather have a holy grail pinball machine i think it's got a lot of potential there are just it's so polarizing i don't know anyone who hates monsters i know a lot of people who don't know it right there are people who do not like monty python they don't think they're funny i know some people who like that now most of the people i hung out liked Monty Python. You almost had to to prove that you were an intellectual humorist. I even know people who don't like Monty Python who do like Holy Grail. They say it's the only thing they like. I just don't know if they care about it enough for it. When was the last time you rewatched it? I haven't seen it in years. Four months ago? Five months ago? It might be ideal for you. I don't think most people rewatch it often. I don't think they do with Munsters either. I'm on record that I think Munsters is a terrible theme show. I don't. I mean, yeah, I rewatched it last year, middle of last year. But that was the first time I'd rewatched it in a couple of years. On the other hand, at one point in time, I used to watch it every month or two. I just think, to me, it's a cult classic. And cult classics, from a sales standpoint, those could be gambles. This is where things like Big Trouble in Little China come up. Right. I love Big Trouble in Little China. I've seen it more than I've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I own Big Trouble in Little China. But I don't know if it has the sales chops, even though I like it. See, that's what was smart about Ghostbusters. Everyone loved Ghostbusters. It wasn't a cult classic. It was a hit. Right. And that's a very valid point. what would be a cult classic that was a cult classic while still being big enough to make a valid play? In the world of spooky, I would say Rocky Horror Picture Show might be the best bet. Now that's a very valid thought. It wasn't a huge hit, but it's been a cult classic for so long. It has legs. A lot of people know that they're going to appreciate it. I think it would have more interest than Alice Cooper or Rob Zombie. Probably. I mean that gets complicated because those are both musical artists that are still performing I know Alice Cooper is not really a music pen but the people are still performing regularly Rocky Horror is Rocky Horror but there are stage productions of it every Halloween there are theaters that re-air it it's got this whole thing of the cult classics it's one of the most the community is rabid about it versus other cult classics like Buckaroo Bonsai they're not rabid No. So it's a good movie. No, it's not. It's a fun movie. I don't even remember much of it, honestly. I've seen it once and I was very bored. I thought it was a fun movie. That's fine. You can like whatever you want. Let's move on from the drama. Drama Lama! Chicago Gaming Company, CGC. They're in the process of making Monster Bash games, Monster Bash remakes. Apparently they're behind on the LE production, and they put out some very detailed information explaining that the problem is they do a 10-color spot process to make the playfield art rather than a four-color screening. It's a screening process. They don't digitally print them. I guess the monster bashes from Williams were done in the same process. However, they hold the LE playfields, and I guess this is the first time they've admitted this, they hold the LE playfields to a higher quality standard. So a lot of the playfields they've been making for the LEs, they look at and they see imperfections. Those are going in the Classic and Standard Editions. And unfortunately, it's taken them a while to dial in on this process. So not too dire. they're expecting to get the people who've asked for LEs to match their other LEs they bought, like they want all the same number. There are 200 and some people like this. Those are expected to be done by the start of February, like February 1. So it doesn't sound like it's an overly long delay, but they've made more classic and standard editions because these playfields keep turning out. And some of the, I guess they've shown examples and it's really hard for people to see, but. But it's within their noticeable range. And they noted their LE range is far more stringent than what Williams expected back in the day. So that's an interesting point. Do you – I don't know. I know I want to just ask, do you care? But I don't think you're in the market for a Monster Bash LE. So maybe another way I should phrase it is, do you think there should be different play field qualities between the models? That is a tough question. I honestly think it should all be the same standard, but if it is as hard to notice the imperfections as it's sounding like it is to notice the imperfections, then I can see where they would want to go with just the most perfect for the LEs, but I think they should all basically be the same. Yeah, I'm wondering if this is too exacting of a standard that they're proposing. I guess it doesn't sound like there's a particularly long delay, at least at this point. So I don't think it's a big deal. But here's the thing. They noted the challenge in explaining it. And they used an analogy with dead pixels on monitors and being able to easily quantify that. They can't do it to that extent. they can't just say this will have X number of dots that don't line up exactly perfect to make the color blend right within a one millimeter one square millimeter or something so I get it I wonder if they're being too particular here's the thing they've never advertised before that the alleys had a better play field so it wasn't used as a selling point so why is it an excuse at this stage I just don't understand And I don't care if they want to hold them to a higher standard. I don't know that that's a good thing, though. Good or bad. Is that something that they did with AFM, but because of the different process, it wasn't an issue that came up? I've wondered if this being so sensitive on the LEs in particular is because there were those AFMs where there was that one color that looked like it didn't mix right. Right. wrong everywhere and people were really mad about it i wonder if this is almost a visceral response to trying to avoid that with their le buyers because they over corrected almost uh and again if they can if they can meet that standard and put it i i don't know they noted that that you have more consistency with digital printing and they talked about how a lot of other companies are digital printing in a four-color process i actually and people hear this on on repeat if They listen to This Week in Pinball, but one of the things I wondered, and I have no idea if this works or not, is if they're doing this 10-color process, could you not have a digital printing process that used 10 colors instead of four and solve the problem? In my mind, this sounds expensive. That's what I was getting ready to say. That sounds like a specialty piece of equipment. But then again, if most people use a four-color process, do we want to use a 10-color process? I know it sounds awesome. It's got more colors in it, but it doesn't sound like it's the standard. But again, if you're doing a remake and Williams did a 10 color, I see why you're going, well, we need to do a 10 color because we're doing a remake. But then again, they noted that they've got three original Monster Bash playfields in their possession. What they're putting out are two of their Williams games they'd never even send out in any model. Right. So their standard's already well above what Williams was doing. I don't know why it needs to be this high. Seems like a perfectionist overkill to me. It could be. And there's people out there like that. I wonder if, with how much better things have gotten, if a digital four-color setup could give the exact same effect as this 10-color, why wouldn't they just do it? Yeah. If they could do that and still... They probably can't. Yeah. Well, they claim that the 10-color process does get different color effects than what achievable with the four color. They feel it's noticeable. Okay, that's good enough. Yeah, I thought it was interesting. Final little piece of news. It's not really news, but interesting nonetheless. Obviously, rumors. I've been hearing rumors on Stern for a while about a Jaws. It's been forever. Superman, based off of a 1978 film. Now the rumor mill is saying that Stern is working on a James Bond game. I was just curious, what would you like to see if there was a James Bond game from Stern or anyone? I mean, would you want it to be based off of one movie like Goldeneye was? Then there was the Gottlieb one in the early 80s, the one that we've played it. Right. Time credits in it. That was just kind of, I think, loosely just themed on Roger Moore as James Bond, but it wasn't built around any. Of course, the tech was so limited back then. Don't know. Would you want it to be like on a series of Bond films from one particular actor? Would you want it to be like all the Bond movies, a selection of Bond movies, just one Bond movie? I don't know that I actually want a James Bond pinball machine. I was implying that you did by all my questions, but that's a perfect choice. I think if it was going to happen I think it would be best just having a generic Bond It is Bond not a specific movie Probably not even one of the specific actors I can even see doing it to where it was it had all of the primary Bond actors on it in different places and different things. But even if you went with just picked one of them or even just one with generic art that looked kind of Bond-ish I think you would be better off going with just a generic Bond theme than targeting it on anything specific, unless there's another Bond movie coming out that people think's actually going to be popular and go big. Right. Given that the rumor is stern, I would think that the instinct would be to tie it to a current Daniel Craig movie, assuming Daniel Craig's doing the next Bond, which last I knew was up in the air. Or you could do it off of all of his movies, so starting with Casino Royale and use those. But if you're going for the Ghostbuster style, going for the classic just fans of Bond, I would probably do it on one. I'd probably go back and say, can we do Goldfinger? Is Goldfinger the one you would choose? From a sales standpoint, Goldfinger and Thunderball seem like good choices. I'd probably do Goldfinger. Because then you could have like a Fort Knox shot. You could have something with the plane for Pussy Galore. you could do the golden girl who's painted gold. You could have the Aston Martin with a vertical up kicker and a little vuck and that's the eject seat from the Aston Martin. You can have that as a shot. So I just think it would have some fairly easy to do toys that would lend itself and it is, I don't know if it's the most popular Bond movie. I have an impression that it is. And so I think it's a strong I think it's a strong one. See, Thunderball gets interesting because what was that one? The company that got to do that other bond that used Sean Connery with Kim Basie. Yeah, never say never. Never say never. That's just Thunderball redone. Right. So Thunderball might actually have more overall eyes if you factor both of those in. But Goldfinger, it's so iconic. The car is iconic. Connery is overall the most popular bond. Correctly. And he hasn't had a pinball game based on him. and you know the true coup de grace Stern gets him to do the call outs he's still alive you think he would? no that's what I thought I do not think he would I do not think he would it would be awesome but yeah no I can see it's a valid argument and I would think that one and Thunderball both on my short list I could also see Diamonds Are Forever. Okay. Or if you want to go for just... If you want to embrace the campiest of the camp of the Bonds, you go Moonraker. Yeah, I don't think they'd do that. I would hope they wouldn't do that. Yeah, I don't see it happening. Anyway, I just thought, interesting. Yeah, I don't really think we need another James Bond pin. I know there have been a ton of movies, so in a way it makes sense. But it just doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't feel like the type of thing that lends itself as well as other things. It seemed like back in the old days when there were a lot of operating pins, having one tied to the current movie would make sense, but I'm not aware of a current movie. I think the last one did so bad, I think they kind of chilled out for a while. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure it'll come back as James Bond. It's Bond. Of course it will. There's always going to be a demand for that style. Right. But it's kind of been displaced currently with things like Mission Impossible. Right and The Kingsman is the same kind of Spy type thing taken to the Extreme camp The Bourne movies were like until the last Bourne movie which was terrible Right the other Bourne movies were good They were Well that's pretty much it for the pinball news So we can go on to 20 questions That's right Show the excitement for the audience So for the audience members who are new and not familiar with this Where have you been? Yeah, where have you been? Welcome. We love you. Welcome. We will be running through a series of yes or no questions. It'll be about a pinball machine. It's a pinball machine that we know the other person has played. For the first 15 questions, they have no tools to assist them. However, as of question 16, they may use the Internet and start doing searches to help narrow down and find the answer to the query. and that's really all there is to it. We've never actually failed. Always have gotten the game. It's been pretty close. I think I've had some 18s or 19s. I don't think you've ever gone down to 19. I'd have to check the website. It's on the website. You can go to eclecticgamers.com and we have a 20 questions heading as one of the categories. You just click on that and you'll see the list. Say the episode number. Say what the game was and how many guesses and who the person was that got the game right or who was playing it right should there be a case of not getting it right but tony you can ask your first question when you are set is it an em no does it have a dmd no does it have an lcd no is it a williams no is it a gottlieb no that's question five Is it a stern? No Is it a data east? Yes Oh yeah I got one yes Yay You did Each no is also helping you get closer to the truth Okay Data east I'm trying to think of years here I'm trying to get the year range for data east in my head Because I don't have your mental encyclopedia Is it newer than 1985? Yes. Is it between 86 and 90? Yes. Look at all those yeses. 87 and 89. In between those years, inclusive? Inclusive. Yes. That's question 10. 89? No. 87? Yes. That was a couple wasted questions But it narrows it down 1987 Data East See this is where I'm running the problem Because all the Data Easts I'm thinking of Are too new Is it Sports themed No Is it a movie license No That's too new Is it sci-fi themed? Yes. That's question 15. Jeez, I am doing bad. Last time I got it real good. Not asking a question as part of the question, but is this full on going to be one of these ones where I'm just going to want to bash my head against the... Yes. Okay. Now we could have an issue here. We could definitely have an issue here. I've never actually played it. you guys had a multiplayer game going and then it broke and I was doing something else. No, you played it. I did play it? I remember playing the other one. But, I mean, it's obviously Laser War because that's the only 87 Data East. Yeah, I seem to remember you actually going up and using the flippers on it. Maybe it broke while we were playing it. Yeah, it had a... That's the one where the flipper came loose on you. Maybe that's the way it was. I think so. I think it was while you were playing. Right. Because I think that was the only time I ever actually played that one. Interesting. I thought you had tried it after that point. I didn't remember for sure. Because I know the last couple times we've been over there, yeah, I just think the only time I played it was that one time right after he got it. Well, I didn't say you finished your game. Yeah. Interesting. You need to put more time on it then. I need to put more time on it. Yeah, I know. I want to say the last time I was over there and played pinball, all I played was the other one. And then dinner was ready. Okay. I'm not positive of that. Well, I remember you playing it. Yeah. I didn't remember how many times. Excuse me. I remember it breaking. So you're right. I did play it. Well, I don't remember what the issue was on you because it had a switch issue, which got fixed. It had an issue where it was putting two balls in the eject lane, but I don't think that was with you. It wasn't that. I think it was a case where the flipper, I think the contacts needed to be filed a little more. And so what happened was it didn't actually come loose, but I think it just wasn't flipping right. And I think you drained because of it. And you're like, oh, that flipper didn't respond right. And then it happened for someone else. Yeah. And then it got shut down, as I recall. Okay. Well, then maybe I was wrong about you kicking yourself because you may feel that you didn't have enough time that that was. No, no, I still kicked myself. This should have been obvious. I don't know. Especially since it's like the only 87 Data East. Well, yeah, but. I mean, that's. It was their first game. Because I want to double check real quick. Was I even close on that one being the correct year? Ha, it was a Data East. Okay, that works. And it was close. Which game were you thinking of? Time Machine. I thought about that one. Yeah. Because I knew you played that one as well. I also couldn't remember how many times you played it, but I know you played it at least once. Yeah. Yeah, no. No, I was... That's the one that kept coming into my head. But it's like, I thought it was newer than that. I thought it was... And it was an 88. I thought it was newer than an 88. Oh. So... Because I was thinking it was like 90. So... No, that's not that far. from HB? No, no, it's not far. I just, when you're trying to figure things out in your head that it is one of those things that kind of sticks. So, would you like to flip it? We don't have to. I've already flipped it. It plays well. Nice. That's good. That was almost respectable. But no, we can play it the other way. Did we do that last time? Yeah, we did. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. Yeah, you went with Stargazer again. Again? I've done it a couple of times. Yeah. I wondered afterwards if you had deliberately chosen. I think I picked the same sterns in the same order as well. No, last time was the one where you, because you told me it was an alphanumeric. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, because I was wrong. Because I lied and I ruined it all. I didn't realize I'd used Stargazer before. I should have, because I think it was right after it was on location. I wasn't too surprised that you did, because you had threatened to use a game that you'd done before, because you thought it would trick me. Though I do think I actually got Stargazer faster the second time than the first. Yeah. Even with the issue. So, yeah, sure. Is it an electromechanical game? It is not. Does the game have a dot matrix display? Yes. Is the game a Bally Williams? No. Is the game from the year 2000 or newer? Yes Is the game from 2010 or newer? Yes Five Is the game from 2015 or newer? No Is it Star Trek? It is not Star Trek Is it Avatar? No Is it Iron Man? No Is it a Stern? Yes And that was ten Is it WWE? No So that would actually be a good idea. Is it ACDC? It is. Okay. See, I was kind of torn because with the vaults out now, it's like, man, there's such a big year disparity that could be done now. Yeah. So I went ahead and went with, well, we played ACDC, and it was a premium model, and it wasn't a vault. Original Lucy. It was an original Lucy, so that's the one I was going with. Hard to remember the year. I knew it came out early. It was 13 for the Lucy, and the regular premium was 12. All right, video games time. We've got a few things to talk about. There's been some video game news going on here. There's been a little bit. I mean, there's been obviously more than we're actually going to talk about, but there's been one big thing of interest to us. Yes. Well, at least me. Well, yeah. Yeah. So, when the Nintendo Switch hit the floor in March of 2017, the big thing was Wind Waker. Or not Wind Waker. Wow, that'd be bad. The Zelda game that I can't remember now, even though I own it. Call of the Wild. Breath of the Wild. Or Breath of the Wild. See? It's terrible. That's what I get for not making all of my notes. But E3 that year was huge for Nintendo because they made a lot of announcements and they had a lot of excitement over what was coming. Yep. One of the highlights of E3 in 2017 was the very easy tease of Metroid Prime 4. And by easy tease, I mean they showed a picture that was just the logo saying Metroid Prime 4. And that was it. Kind of like last year they did with Elder Scrolls 6, saying, ah, it's not going to be here for a while, but here it is when Bethesda did that. Right. Right. Just to let you know it's coming. Yeah, just to let you know we're working on it. There's other stuff, but we're working on it. And they've been quiet about it ever since. No mention at all at E3 this year. No mention during any of the directs. It's been complete silence. The only thing that ever came out was there was some drops that let us know that it was being worked on. The coding was being done by Bandai Namco. Yeah. And that was it. And there was an announcement made on Friday from Nintendo. They did a direct video that they put out. and basically it is saying that, well, I'm going to go ahead and just go, I'm going to read a direct quote. I'm going to read a direct quote from Shinya Takahashi, the senior managing executive officer. The current development progress has not reached the standards we seek in a sequel to the Metroid Prime series. Nintendo always strives for the highest quality in our games and in the development phase we challenge ourselves and confront whether the game is living up to that quality on a daily basis. We have decided to re-examine the development structure itself and change it. Specifically, we have asked the producer, Kintsuke Tanabe, to work in trust and collaboration with the studio that developed the original Metroid Prime series, Retro Studios, in the United States and restart development from the beginning. By collaborating and developing with Retro Studios, we believe we can make this game something that will meet our fans' expectations. they trash binned the entire game that they've been working on for the last two years through Bandai Namco. And are starting over. I honestly don't know if they're maintaining anything. I guess they could probably maintain art assets. Is the only thing that might come through. But even there, you don't know. So we're looking at what? Two years before the game that people have been waiting super hyped for for the last two years. Well, I was going to ask, when do you think it comes out now? I think two years is the minimum. I would agree. If they're going from a clean sheet, if it's a clean sheet rebuild with a whole new company doing it, two years. Do you think that this should – I mean, obviously, we don't know what the status was with Namco Bandai. Yeah. Bandai Namco. We're all doing it. It's just nuts now. Namco. Let's just call it Namco. Yeah. Do you like, so it's hard to say, but I'll ask anyway, do you like this move to retro? I think the core fan base, which does not include me because I like the Metroid games, but I've never been the Metroid fanboy guy. Okay, I understand. but I think anytime you can take a game and keep it with the original progenitors of the game it's a good thing I mean I would agree with you except it's sort of like saying I love rare games from the 90s but what's rare today most of retro studios that worked on Metroid Prime is with Armature now which did ReCore but not with Retro anymore True So that where I get it It going home to the home company But most of the talent made their own company since then and isn with them anymore It's like loving Call of Duty 4 and saying we should have Infinity Ward do something. It's like Core Infinity Ward has now respawned. Totally different company. That is a very valid point. On the other hand, you're also looking at the shift away from Bandai Namco. and Bandai Namco has kind of been, what's a good way to put it? They put out cookie cutter games. They gave us Dragon Ball FighterZ. Yes, they did. And they've given us lots of other games with some similarities. And while they put out some really good games, they've also put out some real cookie cutter trash. Okay, that's fair. It is definitely, it's something we'll see. Like I said, I'm not hyper into it like a lot of people are. I do think that the true fanboys are going to be happy with it overall. Because they're going to go with the argument that it is... That the game wasn't good enough for Nintendo's quality to release it. the game wasn't the game they wanted to play. And they're willing to wait. It's a fair critique. It is a fair critique, yeah. Yeah, I think a lot. I don't know. It's been so long since a Metroid Prime game, and a lot of people weren't big fans of Metroid Other M, at least in terms of the storytelling. It's been a long time since a good Metroid game. So some people will probably also be willing to ask. I mean, overall, I think this is the right move for Nintendo because they clearly weren't happy with what Namco was doing. But on the flip side, why did it take you two years to reach this point? Why couldn't you tell a year ago that this wasn't going how you wanted it? That's a valid question. And you've got the same producer, Kintsugi Tanabe, is still, I guess, still producing it. Right, and he's been involved with the production of all but one, all but the very first Metroid Prime game. So I don't know if he saw something where he thought they were going to be able to fix it and they just couldn't or couldn't fast enough and you i mean overall i agree with you i think most of the fans will probably most of the hardcore fans will probably say this is for the best some of the more casual but people who are really looking for metroid how late is that going to be in the switch life cycle i don't know well i know switch isn't on the same cycle as and two years out everyone's in agreement that sony and microsoft have new consoles in two years. Right, but here's the thing is, they've got new consoles in two years, but the Switch has only been out for two years. Yes. And there were announcements made very recently that there are no current plans to do either a hardware upgrade to the Switch or a price reduction to the Switch. They like what the Switch is doing, they like the position the Switch is in, and they're planning to leave it alone for at least this year and probably next year. Okay. Well, their sales numbers are such, as we just recently learned. Yeah. I mean, they're the best-selling console out there at this time. That seems like a smart play, yeah. So with the other two coming to the end of their cycles, that's not a surprise. And especially given its price point's not overly aggressive either. Right. It's not an overly expensive system. No, no, it's not at all. So its price point for its regular system is not far from where the basic systems, the basic cheaper versions of the systems for the other consoles were until just recently. So what core awesome name brand Nintendo titles are coming out in 2019? Because this is the one I knew of. Well, supposedly Animal Crossing. Okay. which will be enough to sell 5 million Switches by itself sure I mean that is I don't know how much crossover between the Metroid audience and the Animal Crossing audience there is you might be surprised I wouldn't have thought so either but from the sounds of it there is a fairly large crossover with that let me pull up Let me pull up a quick Switch list right now. Because, let's see, Animal Crossing is planned for 2019, though we don't have anything better than that. Another TBA. Now, this one is not Switch exclusive, but Koji Irigashi, who did Castlevania, a developer for Castlevania, has a project coming out called Bloodstained Ritual of the Night. It's on everything. Okay. Well, I don't think that's a Switch mover. It's on everything. Right. Okay. There is a heavy mecha game coming out sometime in 2019 that's being put out by Kinichiro Tsukuda, the main producer of the Armored Core games from the PS2 era, which are huge games. I know people who still own PS2s to play those Armored Core games. And so that will probably be pretty big. It's called Daemon X Machina. That's for everything. The remasters of the Final Fantasies are due this year. I'm sure those will be fine. A new Fire Emblem game is coming out, which I'm sure will interest some people. surprisingly largely from what I've seen Luigi's Mansion 3 apparently the Luigi's Mansion games which I've never paid any attention to actually have a pretty good size following so that could be an interesting release we'll see another port another port now they're supposedly a full scale Pokemon game okay yeah that would be pretty big that's, if it happens in 19, it's going to be just before Christmas, I'm sure. And it will be enormous. Because that's the kind of thing all the Pokemon people have been wanting is a full-up mainline console-style Pokemon game. Because they've never put one of the mainline Pokemon-style games out on any of their consoles. They've always done other things. so yeah everything else that's huge is showing as beyond 2019 because there's a Pikmin game coming Pikmin 4 is coming there's a special switch version of Dragon Quest 11 there's Bayonetta 3 but they're all past 19 so we'll see it's going to be Pokemon and Animal Crossing this year that's what it's going to be and here's the thing while there have been no announcements. We're two years out from launch, which means we're two years out from Zelda, which would, in my opinion, mean we could start expecting another Zelda game as early as 20. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another Zelda game as early as 20. A three-year production time wouldn't be outlandish. No, I mean, especially compared to other games' development cycles. Sometimes Nintendo seems a little slower, but they do put out a lot of Zelda games versus some of the other... Right. It seems to be their... It seems to be. It is their big driving force. All right. They'll probably be all right then. Oh, yeah. I have no doubts that Switch will be fine for at least one more year. Other than that, the only major things I want to do are little tiny update things. One of them's not even in the notes. It's so minor. the season 16 for Diablo 3 has started for people who like to do the seasonal journey stuff I've been playing around with it some the we spoke last episode about the distant worlds 2 expedition in Elite Dangerous it has launched as we saw it launched the day that we recorded our last episode, actually. And they did a rolled launch out of their, so they did it by Windows, so Europe launched all at the same time, the Americas launched all at the same time, the Notiana launched all at the same time. And, so, not a surprise, they crashed the servers. Too many people. But they only crashed the servers with a European launch. Oh, no one cares. They got everything else back online and they got the servers up and buffered up enough that the other two launches were fine. Their numbers starting out, when I first found this in December, they were looking at 3,000 people involved. The current expedition number is 13,000 people involved. So it has gotten to be huge. It's gotten to be popular. They have seen some first-day losses. They lost 54 ships destroyed on day one. So those people aren't in the process anymore. Being day one, they're still in because they'd be able to catch back. they'd be able to catch back up. Now, later on, and the thing is, they went to one of the first stops was a world that is called The View, as I recall, which is a high-gravity planet, but if you land, you can get really pretty shots. Fortunately, 54 people crashed while landing and had their ships destroyed. So what has come out of this, as we talked last time with the emergent gameplay, is we were talking about how there's journalists and there's people doing RPG stuff and, you know, like full-up Roll20 pen and paper RPG play and this and that. A new corporation, is it a corporation in Elite Dangerous? I'm not sure. It's like a guild or a link shell or whatever you want to consider it. It's the grouping was formed in the month leading up to it, and they call themselves the Hull Seals. And they are literally just a large group of people who go around to repair all of the damaged ships to keep people in it. But what's interesting about this is, like there's a group that does the same thing, but they haul fuel to people who need fuel in-game that has been around for years. They have already taken part in at least one major rescue. Somebody got their ship so badly damaged that they could not refuel, and they couldn't do anything for risk of the ship being destroyed. but they were over two hours of actual gameplay away from everybody else. So a group squad from this new group spent two actual hours of gameplay to go rescue the guy and then roll back in. That's the kind of just little insanity crazy thing going on. And there's so many stories coming out. We'll see. I'm not going to turn this into an everyday thing because I'm not paying that much attention to it it's just since that was the actual launch update I thought I would this could be your DDR corner it's not my DDR corner it would make more sense if I actually played this game it would a little bit I've played a couple hours of this game now speaking of games that I've played this isn't one but I've played the game that came first on Tuesday of this week so just this week past Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 was released I've talked about Battlefleet Gothic Armada I played a lot of it It's a very enjoyable game One of my biggest gripes on it Was how Small it was But very enjoyable Supposedly this has been Fixed in Armada 2, larger fleets More this The trailer shows huge With the trailer having what looks like larger Groups makes me happy There's three campaigns in the game that I'm looking forward to. So I have, if you haven't figured out, I have purchased this game. I have installed it. It is on my laptop sitting right in front of me as we record this. And I'm going to stream this game. I'm not saying I'm going to stream all of this game. Maybe he'll stream all of it. But I will stream my first play of this, my opening playthrough at the very least of this game when I first started my thing. I haven't streamed in a couple of weeks just because life has gotten in the way and I've either been not home or it's been one of those days where you know you come home from work and you're like oh I should do that and then you wake up and you've been asleep in your computer chair and you're like I should go lay in bed because my back is killing me so I haven't really done any of the streaming that I hoped for I'm going to continue playing my Battletech campaign. I'm not necessarily going to stream it because my streaming time is more limited. So I'm going to concentrate on streaming Battlefleet Gothic Armada. Like I said, I'm going to stream at least my very first play. My first amount of play time. And I'm also getting Ace Combat 7. I'm going to use it as streaming as well. I'm going to be streaming it as well. So we'll be seeing more non battle techy video game streaming goodness from me. Still no pinball streaming from me. Right. I guess I could pull out Pinball Arcade. You can. I've sometimes done that. Lately, when I do video games, I've only been streaming Hollow Knight. Yeah. I'm over 20 hours in on that now. I've watched that speed run. You should have... I know. 20 hours in, you should have beaten this game by nine times. He didn't do the optional bosses. I'm doing the optional bosses. Oh, okay. Totally different strategy. And I've been pretty good about... I had to change my day. I try to stream pinball on Wednesdays and Fridays. I couldn't do Wednesday this last week because I had work events that were running into the evening. So I moved it up to Tuesday instead and worked around that. But I've gotten into a week for quite a while now. I've been able to maintain that. I don't know if I have to shuffle the days and times a bit. I was starting to get there and then work went insane. Hollow night I usually stream on the weekends. But because I record the Twip podcast, I couldn't do it this morning. And normally I do them in the morning. I think you stream some yesterday, didn't you? I did. I did in the morning and then I actually did a little bit later in the afternoon because I didn't feel like playing We Happy Few. So I was like, okay, well I'll go ahead and stream it because I've been streaming all of Hollow Knight. Right. And also I have a couple PS4 games now. I picked up the DLC for Spider-Man. I've been playing on it. I now have The Last of Us and Soul Calibur 6 and the game that gave me the most interest in the PS4 originally, and that is Horizon Zero Dawn. I just kept seeing Dawn in my head. Yeah, I guess it's weird because there are other games with Horizon in the title. Right. I've got a whole bunch of those, but I don't have anything. I'm not even planning on streaming PS4 games. I'm only going to stream certain things. That's why I'm Battlefleet, Gothic, Armada, and and, and battle tech though. Like I said, I'm going to play some battle tech, but I'm not going to stream it. Just like I don't stream. I don't stream my Diablo playthroughs because nobody wants to watch me loot pinata through stuff. Right? Yeah. I, I tried streaming my, on my Xbox with tomb Raider. And then that taught me with like, I have red dead redemption two now and far cry five in those larger games, either the narrative or their sandbox. I don't feel like talk enough. Right. I don't want to talk the entire time. Right. Whereas with Hollow Knight, usually it can be me screaming at my death or going, where do I go next? I wonder what I should do. And I can talk a little bit more because it feels a little more constrained in a way. Like Metroidvania works better for me. Or multiplayer games would work well because you're often just interacting already. Right. And that's why I have no issues with Battletech because I will talk through my strategy and my reasons for doing what I'm doing and how I'm doing what I'm doing. and then I'll yell at myself when I do something stupid. And I'll also, with that universe, I can sit down and talk lore at exceedingly large depth. I actually try to avoid it unless somebody actually brings up a question in chat, but I can go crazy with lore in that game. But that's my plans for streaming going forward. We're going to try. I'm going to try and get back up to at least one or two days a week like I was doing there for about a month or so without a problem. It's just been, wow, life. Yeah, life finds a way. Jurassic Park taught us one. Yes. Well, I guess that's it for the show. I think so. So people can follow us, facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. Email us at eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com. We're on Twitter and Instagram and Twitch as eclectic underscore gamers. And we'll be back in two weeks. Until then, I'm Dennis. I'm Tony. Peace out. Peace.