Silicon Rubbers VS Rubber Rubbers with h4ck3r-J

Bash Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Oct 4, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.020

TL;DR

Deep dive into rubber vs silicone playfield components and their impact on pinball gameplay.

Summary

The Bash Pinball Podcast hosts discuss rubber vs. silicone bumpers and posts on pinball machines with guest h4ck3r-J (Matt's brother Jay), exploring how different rubber compounds affect ball physics, gameplay feel, and playability. The conversation covers durometer variations, performance differences between brands, maintenance issues, and personal preferences for rubber hardness across different games.

Key Claims

Silicone rubbers on pinball machines eventually disintegrate due to maintenance issues
medium confidence · Guest discusses silicone rubber degradation on Johnny game after initial setup
Different black rubbers from the same company can bounce completely differently despite same part number
high confidence · h4ck3r-J directly states he had two different black rubbers from Marco that performed very differently
Stern's default factory setup for new games uses hard rubber for posts
high confidence · Host confirms: 'the defaults from stern on the new games is a pretty hard rubber for a lot of the posts and stuff that right from the factory'
Softer rubber provides more control but harder rubber reduces unpredictable bounces
medium confidence · Hosts discuss gameplay feel differences; one prefers soft rubber for control, another prefers hard rubber for predictability
Arcade operators tend to use silicone rubbers on all machines
medium confidence · Host states: 'At our arcades they tend to have silicone on everything'
Storage conditions (heat, cold) can significantly change rubber performance over time
medium confidence · h4ck3r-J draws parallel to tire degradation in car racing, noting storage affects rubber properties
Changing all rubbers on a game affects gameplay in unanticipated ways beyond rubber physics
medium confidence · Host notes difficulty isolating variables when replacing all rubbers simultaneously
Marco Specialties carries multiple rubber brands with identical part numbers
high confidence · h4ck3r-J notes looking up part numbers yields several different rubbers with same part number

Notable Quotes

“It's not just rubber versus silicone. Rubber versus rubber can be a huge difference as well.”
h4ck3r-J — Core thesis of episode: variability exists within rubber category itself, not just between rubber and silicone
“I had two different black rubbers that bounced completely differently and they were still both rubbers”
h4ck3r-J — Demonstrates significant performance variability even within same color/brand category
“The defaults from stern on the new games is a pretty hard rubber for a lot of the posts and stuff that right from the factory”
Bash Pinball Host — Confirms current Stern manufacturing standard for rubber hardness
“I prefer just to use whatever everything else is using because I'll be more dialed in and I'll be able to maintain that”
h4ck3r-J — Practical player strategy: consistency across machines matters more than personal preference
“When you change out all the rubbers on the game there's you're changing so many little variables that affects the gameplay like in unanticipated ways lots of times”
Bash Pinball Host — Highlights complexity and interdependence of playfield component modifications

Entities

h4ck3r-JpersonMarco SpecialtiescompanyStern PinballcompanyBash Pinball PodcastorganizationJohnnygameGophersgameMandaloriangame John Wickgame

Signals

?
community_signal: Pinball modification community actively experimenting with rubber compound swapping and optimization; technical deep-dives on ball physics being conducted by engaged players
high · h4ck3r-J created slow-motion video analysis comparing rubber performance; multiple hosts discussing detailed rubber modification experiences across different machines
?
design_philosophy: Stern's current manufacturing standard uses hard rubber for posts on factory machines; this affects stock gameplay feel and player adaptation
high · Host confirms: 'the defaults from stern on the new games is a pretty hard rubber for a lot of the posts and stuff that right from the factory'
?
product_concern: Silicone rubber degradation issues on pinball machines require ongoing maintenance; Marco Specialties carries inconsistent rubber specifications under identical part numbers
high · h4ck3r-J: 'the rubber started to disintegrate' and 'you look up the part number on Marco or wherever, and you'll get several different rubbers all with the same part number'

Topics

Rubber compound durometer and performance variabilityprimarySilicone vs rubber playfield componentsprimaryBall physics and bounce characteristicsprimaryPlayfield modification and customizationprimaryMaintenance and rubber degradation over timesecondaryArcade operator standards and practicessecondaryGame difficulty and playability across rubber typesprimaryStern factory standards and specificationssecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.75)— Enthusiastic technical discussion with collaborative problem-solving tone. Hosts engage substantively with guest expertise. Some frustration expressed about unpredictable bouncing on specific machines, but overall tone is exploratory and positive about modification possibilities.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.024

It's time for Bonus X. It's happening. 3, 2, 1. special episode picking up a new game getting ready for Expo and being responsible adults I literally haven't gotten groceries in weeks seasonal germs have struck the bash team so this week we're releasing a mini bonus episode featuring a conversation we had with Matt's brother Jay the hacker TTYL but yeah so I know with Johnny when you got the game it was set up with like the typical silicone rubbers everywhere. Yeah. And to be honest, I liked how it played. However, eventually the, you know, the rubber started to disintegrate. So the reason for that was actually just maintenance. And then that's when I started to experiment with. Yeah. Yeah. You, I remember you made some like slow-mo videos of the ball bouncing against the different rubbers, like the silicone and the rubber rubbers and maybe a couple other compounds. Yeah, it was really interesting. There was a huge difference between the rubbers that I had, but some of the silicone rubbers and some of the rubber rubbers actually performed very similarly. And then there were other rubber rubbers that were much, much softer. So yeah, it's not just rubber versus silicone. Rubber versus rubber can be a huge difference as well. So like certain like the red rubbers versus the black rubbers versus the white rubbers all kind of bounce different or black versus black i had two different black rubbers that bounced completely differently and they were still both rubbers yeah okay so so different rubbers can have different durometers and is that like pliability is that specified or is that like brand i believe i bought both of those from the same company but they were different brand rubber okay yeah i think they were all from marco in that case so in theory i guess each brand right would have like a different composition of rubber that would hypothetically make it perform differently yeah i mean until the pinlympics get codified fully there's not a specific durometer or anything for a rubber it's interesting how different a game like that or really any game can play with just the rubbers versus the silicone. Yeah, and I was really curious to kind of find the rubber that the game originally came with. How is this game supposed to play? But if I recall correctly, you look up the part number on Marco or wherever, and you'll get several different rubbers all with the same part number. So I don't even know how you would find the original. Yeah, that's interesting. Maybe we could find that out. I wonder if you could find like a relatively well-kept 90s game with original parts. And basically, you know, something with home use, like minor plays, and you can take that rubber to like a rubber specialist, and they could somehow understand the composition maybe. I don't know. Now, having raced cars a lot and dealing with tires, I can tell you that they deteriorate significantly. Even one or two years, they can be completely differently. And also storage, like heat and cold can significantly change the rubber. The whole rubber versus silicone thing is interesting. At our arcades they tend to have silicone on everything Yeah It really changes how the ball bounces and especially like bounce pass type stuff it a completely different bounce and so like you switched you switched the rubbers on the game before you gave it to us and then you like suddenly sucked at the game because you couldn't it was behaving so differently than you were expecting yeah the game was easier to play but i had so many random little you know bad bounces yeah that i never scored as well yeah Yeah, the same thing happened to me when I switched to the rubbers on Gophers. It just completely changed the game. Yeah. And I had to like relearn how to flip it. What do you guys prefer? I think I prefer the softer rubber just because I have more control. Like a softer rubber rubber? Rubber rubber. Yeah. However, most games are not set up that way. So if I'm going and playing in the arcade, then it's going to mess up my gameplay. So in a way, I prefer just to use whatever everything else is using because I'll be more dialed in and I'll be able to maintain that. Yeah, that's true. What do you think feels the best though? Because I like the hard rubber. Like rubber rubber? Rubber rubber. Usually the black. So do you want it to bounce off of the flipper more or less? Less. I don't know if a harder rubber makes it bounce less or more. So not from the flipper, specifically, from everything else. Yeah. Like all the posts and all the other. Yeah. Dude, I've been playing the Scott's all over at Baxter and I love it. But when that ball, dude, it hits this weird outlane thing. Yeah. Where it's just like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. I'm like fighting to like just roll through. You know what I'm saying? Because it's bouncing excessively. Yeah. It's just, it won't, you know, and I'm pretty sure there was a silicone because we're kind of like that kind of thinner or not thinner, but more clear. Yeah. There's like a little translucent quality to the silicone. Maybe some bubbling looking in there. And I really don't like those because of that. It just feels way more bouncy and uncontrollable and unpredictable. And I like to play fast and loose and like when it just flows through and it hit stuff And like John Wick dude I would hate that game with silicone or whatever right like the way that it plays it does feel like like a what i think is a harder rubber i don know what on there but i saying the feel the way it feels very responsive and reactive so that's what i like i think the defaults from stern on the new games is a pretty hard rubber for a lot of the posts and stuff like that right from the factory from the factory yeah that's how the mando was that i had and then i switched out a bunch of them for silicone and it actually became more difficult to play because it became way bouncier yeah i don't like it yeah that was the reason that i replaced all the rubbers originally on johnny was because that left ramp yeah that left ramp has notorious a post that is very risky if you're taking a shot from the right flipper and you hit that thing it just launches it right back at you straight down the middle yeah so the left ramp you is really only safe to take with the left flipper yeah gotcha so that was one of the reasons that i replaced them all in hopes of being able to play that ramp with on both sides it helped a little bit but it was kind of hard to it's pretty fast either way it's hard to know when you change out all the rubbers on the game there's you're changing so many little variables that affects the gameplay like in unanticipated ways lots of times yeah and i started to wonder if it would be beneficial to you know you don't have to use all rubber, all silicone. Right, you can mix and match. You can mix and match. Yeah, that's getting down to, like, hacker levels of detail. Dude, he's a hacker. He's a freaking hacker. I already see it. Yeah, that checks out. That's a hacker comment. Thanks for watching!