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Ep 45: Tag Team

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 20m·analyzed·Nov 5, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

District 82 tournament review with competitive pinball logistics debate and major event previews.

Summary

Final Round Pinball Podcast Episode 45 features guest Robert Byers discussing the inaugural District 82 tournament in Wisconsin—a six-tournament-in-four-days endurance event with top international players—and upcoming major events including Houston Arcade Expo and Pinball Expo. The hosts debate tournament logistics, streaming infrastructure, and community dynamics around competitive pinball, with discussion of player fatigue, tournament director workload, and pre-event practice protocols.

Key Claims

  • District 82 was a new tournament in 2025, modeled after Brisbane Masters and German tournaments like Bulls and Balls in Fulda, featuring six tournaments over four days

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis and Robert Byers discussing District 82's inaugural year and its inspiration from international tournament formats

  • Raymond Davidson won the overall District 82 standings; Kaylee jumped to number 3 in world rankings; Carl D'Angelo won the four-strikes event; John DelZoppo won another event

    high confidence · Robert Byers and Jeff Teolis discussing specific tournament winners and IFPA ranking updates

  • Robert Byers' results declined across six tournaments due to mental fatigue: 34th, 31st, 13th, 12th, 10th, 38th—but consistency kept him in 7th overall with prize money in play

    high confidence · Robert Byers providing detailed breakdown of his tournament progression and the impact of fatigue on performance

  • District 82 had over 100 pinball machines and approximately 100 competitors including top players from North America and internationally

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis and Robert Byers describing the scale and caliber of District 82

  • Tournament timing issues caused tournaments to run 1-2+ hours over schedule due to top players 'trapping up' and taking time on classic machines like Whirlwind and Earthshaker

    high confidence · Robert Byers noting timing miscalculations by tournament director Eric Thorne in running classics and match-play formats

  • Houston Arcade Expo uses a unique format with red/blue session splits allowing players to compete half the day and socialize/drink the other half

    high confidence · Robert Byers describing Houston Arcade Expo structure and scheduling philosophy

  • Robert Byers is streaming the Houston Open qualifications and finals on Top Rope Pinball with potential guest wrestler appearances as commentators

    high confidence · Robert Byers announcing streaming arrangement with Phil Grimaldi for Houston Arcade Expo

Notable Quotes

  • “You're not going to see casual pinball players at this event. These are the diehards, the gamers, the tournament players, the best of the best.”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~08:30 — Characterizes District 82's player demographic as elite/hardcore tournament competitors, not recreational players

  • “The concentration of competition that was there, he didn't understand that if you have Whirlwind or Earthshaker in the classics, and you get three or four top guys on there, trapping up, taking their time, destroying these games, they're going to go long.”

    Robert Byers @ ~12:00 — Explains the root cause of District 82's timing issues—elite players' deliberate play style and mastery of classic games

  • “I got up at 3:30 a.m. in Austin, Texas to catch a 6 a.m. flight... I averaged about four to five hours of sleep for three to four nights straight.”

    Robert Byers @ ~15:30 — Illustrates the physical toll and travel logistics demanded by multi-day competitive pinball events

  • “Think about the fucking people organizing these tournaments because they are there two hours before you. They are there two hours after you, and they don't get breaks.”

    Marty Robbins @ ~22:00 — Reframes tournament logistics discussion to emphasize tournament director and staff workload often overlooked by players

  • “I think he is well past his peak, and there's probably not much more left for him. Whereas I think Robert still has a lot left in him and a lot more achievements to be had.”

    Marty Robbins @ ~38:45 — Marty's reasoning for the 'Will You Save' segment decision, comparing age and remaining career potential

  • “The optics aren't good. I'm just going to say it. I'm not trying to piss anybody off in Texas.”

    Robert Byers @ ~48:00 — Direct criticism of Texas Pinball Festival's practice protocol regarding league finals on limited-entry tournament machines

  • “Eric did these six tournaments. Do you know that that night he entered them in to IFPA so that the I saw that the results came out almost instantaneously?”

Entities

Robert ByerspersonJeff TeolispersonMarty RobbinspersonEric ThornepersonRaymond DavidsonpersonKayleepersonColin McAlpineperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: District 82's inaugural six-tournament-in-four-days event in Green Bay established as successful high-level competition venue attracting elite international players; described as potential annual flagship tournament

    high · Robert Byers and Jeff Teolis both indicating interest in returning; Marty noting he asked Eric when next one would be; Robert stating 'Eric, I think this is definitely going to be an annual event'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: District 82 results produced significant IFPA ranking shifts: Raymond Davidson to #1 overall; Kaylee to #3 world ranking; Robert Byers re-entered top 100 via consistency bonus despite no individual wins

    high · Jeff and Robert discussing specific ranking updates and IFPA point calculations; Kaylee's jump to #3 cited as notable achievement

  • ?

    event_signal: District 82 six-tournament-in-four-days format created timing issues (1-2+ hour overruns) and player/staff fatigue; hosts debate optimal balance between match-play finals vs. pump-and-dump formats and break scheduling

    high · Robert Byers detailing specific timing overruns and suggesting schedule restructuring; Marty defending tournament director decisions; extended debate on finals format trade-offs

  • ?

    content_signal: Robert Byers escalating streaming presence via Top Rope Pinball with tournament streaming (Houston Open), guest wrestling intros, and integration of professional wrestling personalities (Matt Hardy, Reby) into TPN ecosystem

    high · Robert announcing Houston Arcade Expo streaming setup with wrestling introductions; discussion of Matt Hardy and Reby joining TPN; Marty acknowledging Robert's streaming growth

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.240

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round.
0:40
Hello, once again, my name is Jeff Teels. My name is Martin Robbins, and you have joined us on the Final Round Pinball Podcast. So, well done. Just two regular American pinball announcers here that make their games spring to life. marty did it on houdini and yours truly on legends of valhalla ho hum just another day right big guy no big deal whatever get over it whatever so yeah that's some big news we'll get to that in a bit but how we like to do this show is we like to to build up you know kind of climax at the end i mean yeah yeah you don't want to build up for too long otherwise it gets a bit painful. So we start off a little, well, you know, a little fluff, a little dull, which brings us to our next guest. I kid, of course, or do I? No, he's a great guy. He's wonderful. You know him from Top Rope Pinball. He is now a top 100 player in the world where he's been before, and he has been doing a lot of competitions because he can in North America. You know him, you love them here he is robert byers finally the rob has come to final round podcast if you smell what the rob was flipping last weekend hi guys how are you hey good night marty can you imagine this guy like christmas or thanksgiving dinners like hey rob can you pass the uh butter you want the butter like fuck you just give me the rob says you don't need the mother the rob says you're too fat already oh i don't think i could ever get sick of it jeff marty do they have swanson dinners for one in australia too because i'm guessing that robert might have had one or two come holiday time do you have those rob or is it the canadian thing swanson dinner like tv dinners yeah it's tv There's a Swanson, yeah. Nah, never heard of it. It ain't like Healthy Choice or something like that. It's just, you know, crappy food. Oh, yeah, it's just like that. You've got vegetables in one part, the meat in the other, stick it in the microwave for seven minutes and you're done. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, okay. It's like going to play bridge with friends and you get there and they're like, enjoy your solitaire. That's what I'm trying to say. True story. That is a weird analogy. The point is he's by himself because he's fucking always doing these intros, but you can't even have a conversation with him. Like, Marty, Rob and I are buds. And New York City Pinball Championships, Rob and I hung out together, stayed in the same room together. Different beds, get your fucking head out of the gutter. Well, when you ran into the room, maybe. I mean, Hugh tried to creep a couple times. Yes. It was cold, Robert. We talked about that. Anyway.

Matt Hardy and Reby (wrestling personalities) have recently joined TPN and are integrating pinball streaming with wrestling intros

medium confidence · Robert Byers discussing Reby and Matt Hardy's participation in TPN streaming ecosystem

  • Texas Pinball Festival uses a limited-entry format (20 entries, 12 machines count) and community members are concerned about pre-event Texas Pinball League finals being played on tournament machines

    high confidence · Robert Byers raising optics concerns about Texas Pinball League practice games on TPF tournament machines before limited-entry event

    • Jeff Teolis @ ~24:30 — Highlights tournament director Eric Thorne's dedication to rapid IFPA entry—unusual and noteworthy commitment

  • “Life ends at 50, and you will find out in a year and one month's time.”

    Marty Robbins @ ~41:00 — Humorous reflection on aging and recovery from intense tournaments, resonating with post-50 experience

  • “I would go next weekend if there was another one. So, I mean, Eric, I think this is definitely going to be an annual event.”

    Robert Byers @ ~20:30 — Strong endorsement of District 82 as a potential annual flagship event despite physical toll

    • Carl D'Angelo
    person
    Tom Graffperson
    Phil Birnbaumperson
    John DelZoppoperson
    Phil Grimaldiperson
    District 82venue
    Houston Arcade Expoevent
    Pinball Expoevent
    Matt Hardyperson
    Rebyperson
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Top Rope Pinballorganization
    TPNorganization

    venue_signal: District 82 in Green Bay (formerly unnamed, recently rebranded due to Packers trademark conflict) established as new premier tournament destination with 100+ machines and professional tournament infrastructure

    high · Jeff describing venue as 'mecca for pinball players'; Robert praising Eric Thorne's technical execution and IFPA integration; comparison to PAPA and international benchmark venues

  • ?

    operational_signal: Elite player behavior (deliberate trapping, game mastery) on classic machines (Whirlwind, Earthshaker) creates unpredictable tournament timing—tournament directors underestimating time requirements for top-tier competition

    high · Robert Byers explicitly explaining why classics ran 1+ hours over: 'three or four top guys on there, trapping up, taking their time, destroying these games, they're going to go long'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Community acknowledgment that tournament organizers work 12+ hour days without breaks, managing logistics, streaming, commentary, and rule enforcement; appreciation for Eric Thorne's rapid IFPA result entry (same-night processing)

    high · Marty's emphatic callout: 'Try running a tournament that goes for 14 hours a day'; Jeff praising Eric entering results 'almost instantaneously' into IFPA; discussion of Tom Graff's multi-role exhaustion

  • ?

    community_signal: Robert Byers formally raises concern about Texas Pinball Festival optics: Texas Pinball League finals being played on limited-entry tournament machines before main event, giving local advantage; frames as friendly critique of policy equity

    high · Robert stating 'The optics aren't good... it doesn't look good' and recommending consideration of alternatives; acknowledging original testing intent but arguing perception problem persists

  • ?

    personality_signal: 'Will You Save' recurring segment where hosts choose which guest to spare in survival scenario; Colin McAlpine nearly selected but Robert Byers chosen based on remaining career potential and age (Robert ~49, Colin past peak)

    high · Extended discussion of Colin vs. Robert selection; Marty's explanation about Robert having 'more achievements to be had' vs. Colin being 'well past his peak'; comedic aging commentary about post-50 life

  • ?

    product_concern: Tournament machines require significant condition differences to learn; Robert noting performance progression (34th→31st→13th→12th→10th) as he learns game-specific bounce patterns and scoop behaviors across District 82 tournament machines

    medium · Robert explaining learning curve: 'as I'm learning the games and knowing the bounce sentences and getting some repeats. I'm moving up in the fit'

    • 3:33
    That's how I got the idea for the reach around. Hey, you were behind me, so go fuck yourself. anyway robert's a an interesting guy great pinball player and uh i will give him his props marty because you know that this podcast has only been about one thing only and it's competition pinball it's about nothing else nothing else we only ever talk about competition people we also did talk about whether we were going to save you as well and we'll get to that yeah yeah we'll get to that possible there's the only two things of interest now in fact someone messages me all the time and says you know the rest of the podcast it's it's fine it's okay only hangs out for the will you save segment so there you go that's all we are now the squid game of podcasts i have not watched that yet what oh stop it my wife has been out of town and then i was at district 82 so it's on the list for us to binge next weekend with no kids so we'll we'll get to it but no spoilers okay none nobody dies don't worry about it so what i was going to say is about that district 82 in wisconsin this was a mecca for pinball players all across america north america too because phil birnbaum from canada was there in fact he won the first event neil mccray our good friend and backup announcer for the reach rounds was there from uh united kingdom and this thing was just crazy so a beautiful facility over 100 pinball machines basically if you can remember marty when you and i first met at papa and all the competitions that went on there well that's kind of what this was am i right when you thought i was jordan's dad yep i just needed to pick that up again yeah It was kind of like a mini world championship, pop-up championship in this big tournament thing. Had a lot of people, you know, Carl, D'Angelo was there. Ray Day actually rode up with Ray Day from Chicago. Colin McAlpine, Travis Murray, Kaylee. And I'm missing about 15 other people, Jared. And it was just intense. I feel like I'm a pretty good player. I went up there and my goal for the six tournaments, seriously, was one top 16. If I would get that, I was going to be happy. So that's the level of competition that was there out of 100 people. Can I go back a second if I can? Because I want to know more about the tournament and I want to get to that. But my question is, look, obviously we've been out of the tournaments. We joked about it before for some time. has district 82 always been this big because when it was on it was all i could see on my social media feeds and obviously it was on twitch as well was just this tournament at district 82 is this been a thing every year or was it just exploding this year this year wow how eric thorn has had this place for a while and it was called something that the green bay packers didn't like before that, so they had to change it to District 82. And they've just really followed the leads of maybe, to some extent, Brisbane Masters. Maybe that tournament I was at in Germany, in Fulda, at Bulls and Balls, where they do these weekends of a lot of tournaments. So, Robert, correct me if I'm wrong, because this is the experience I found. You're not going to see casual pinball players at this event. These are the diehards, the gamers, the tournament players. the best of the best absolutely i mean there's a lot of people that came in for this you know we had we knew tom graff on fox city's pinball was going to be streaming this thing so we knew it was going to be top notch with rolling rigs and and following the top groups and you know six tournaments in four days and eric just knocked it out of the park just on the tech on the ruling you had four tds it went really smooth the only thing that caught him the only thing that caught was the timing he's used to locals and there are some very strong players up there taking that away from nobody that is local but the concentration of competition that was there he didn't understand that if you have whirlwind or earthshaker in the classic and you get three or four top guys on there trapping up taking their time destroying these games they're going to go long so i think he had anticipated maybe 45 minutes around and we started running an hour to hour 15 around so the tournament started running over about two hours plus every tournament so they started backing up on their self so that's the only thing i could say negative everything else was positive the only other suggestion i left for him is to have some tournaments with more of a traditional finals because everything was on match play and it was a four strikes or it was a, you know, a 13 round or the first to 30. So there wasn't really that top eight, top 16, you know, pop-up finals format in any of the tournaments. Okay. I'm going to disagree with you for a second there. And I'll tell you why in these tournaments, what are those other people going to do? Well, the 16 people are playing a pop-up style format. So they're playing best of three matches till they get down to eight till they get down to four till they get down to two that could take three hours what are those other people going to do unless you do this end of the night and i don't know i i think to maximize the time so that you can get more of these tournaments in i thought eric made a wise choice you really want to maximize the time do flip frenzies correct i do have an answer to to your dilemma there because i agree with you and i'm going to tell you what those people are going to do that don't make the top 16. They're going to sleep because let me just run through my weekend real quick. I got up at 3.30 a.m. in Austin, Texas to catch a 6 a.m. flight to fly up to Chicago, ride up three, three and a half hour drive to District 82 area. I did get about an hour, hour and a half nap. And we started at five, ended at 1.30, got home, got to the hotel at two, started again at eight got to the hotel at two started again at eight got to the hotel at two started again at eight and finished up at five o'clock so i averaged about four to five hours of sleep for three to four nights straight so what my suggestion is is pull just one of those tournaments out just one of them free up that 10 hours spread those 10 hours between breaks in the tournament or for the friday night tournament instead of having a saturday morning tournament pull one of the tournaments and friday saturday morning you have the finals for friday so if you made the top 16 sorry you don't get to sleep too much you got to come play finals on saturday morning but everybody else gets to sleep in chill out and then roll in for the saturday night tournament so that was my suggestion yeah i was gonna i mean i think that was a very good counter Thank you very much for that, Robert.
    10:44
    I was just going to say, like, you know, when Jeff was saying, although all the people, you know, wait around, I think the point that Rob was saying was you really like semifinals and finals where it's just a group because it feels like there is something that you have an immediate achievement where you can feel good. And then, you know, if you don't win, at least you go, oh, well, I got top 16 or I got top eight where I felt good because it was this self-contained finals. So I get the dilemma as well. I do like having finals. And I remember when I put on Flip Frenzy at the Melbourne Silver Bowl Championship, everyone was like, oh, you need to do finals. And I'm like, oh, you know what? I just want to do it without finals just so I know it goes for three hours. That's it. And then everyone can go home. So it really is a double-edged sword here. But I think what you really hit on there is probably too many tournaments crammed into one with not a lot of room for creep sometimes less is more no question about it and another thought that we haven't even thrown out there is okay robert you've got your wish top 16 get playoffs while those players are playing the playoffs everybody who didn't make the playoffs here's another tournament for you flip frenzy yep why not flip frenzy for that you know if you didn't make the final 16 you you come in for a little little flip frenzy and it's going to run until the finals of the finals start, just to have a little bit of break and call that good. And that gives everybody that didn't make the top 16 to get in there and battle and get some whopper points when some of the big boys aren't in there. So that's exactly what you could do. I agree. By the way, I was a little bit jealous not to be there, but super happy that everything went well for Tom Graff, Fox Cities, Eric Thorne, and everybody at District 82. It looks spectacular. a great stream, great competition. I even said to Eric, when's the next one? So I can sign up, and I think of all the people that weren't there. There's going to be a lot of people that want to sign up for that. But that was six tournaments in four days. Or as the Germans like to say, wussies. Are you only four? Seven in four days. In fact, there were eight. They canceled the one. Wow. And the reason I say this is not to one-up you. it. It's actually to sympathize with you and commiserate about the lack of sleep in these things. I've done two 24-hour battles at the Sanctum, and the second one really knocked the shit out of me. And I said, probably not going to do another one of these. It's fun. I'm glad I did it. And it is fun. I just physically, it hurts me the next couple of days. This German tournament, which is similar to what you did, same amount of hours. So those that were District 82 can compare. It was exhausting, especially if you've got to travel. You mentioned getting up at 3.30. Well, ditto, and jet lag and all the other stuff. Holy cow, I have never. Did you wind up at some point going, I kind of hate pinball? No, I never got there because it's been 18 months. That's true. Bring it on, and I would go next weekend if there was another one. So, I mean, Eric, I think this is definitely going to be an annual event. I mentioned to him, I said, I'd come up here twice a year if you did like a May and October every year, something like this, for sure. But yeah, it wore on me. I'll tell you how it wore on me. So event number one, 34th. Event number two, 31st. Event number three, 13th. Event number four, 12th. Event number five, 10th. You kind of see this progression here as I'm learning the games and knowing the bounce sentences and getting some repeats. I'm moving up in the in the fit and, you know, in the finish round number six, 38. I did not care. It was walk up. I don't care if the guy rage tilted before me. It was plunge the ball, flip away and just go because my mental game was completely shot at that point. Was everybody else in the same boat or do you feel like you had a different journey to everybody else? So yes and no. There were some people that skipped the tournament. They're like, I'm dead. And so they just took a tournament off. It was tough for the top players because guess what? Even though my highest finish was 10th in the first five, because I was consistent, I was in seventh overall. And so they had an overall where if you finish first, you got like a pumping dump, $199, $98, $97, $96, blah, blah, blah, all the way down towards the finals. And I forget – I'm so sorry. I forget the sponsor, but the sponsor put up $1,000 for overall first, and even – and they paid the top six. So I was in seventh overall because I was consistent because there were some people that finished ahead, and then they shit the bed in the next tournament. So consistency paid off. And so I was right on that cut line of getting some cash, and of course I shit the bed on the last one. But that was always in the back of my mind. I can't skip one. And plus I got 25 points for 10th, 11th, 12th. So that bumped me back up in the top 100, which is actually my ultimate goal going there is finish high enough to get enough points to crack back into that top 100 and get some motivation going into tournaments. And so I do it again next weekend. I would kill myself, but I would do it again. It was awesome. So this weekend is Pinball Expo. Not quite the endurance. It's limited entry main tournament and then a big, big, big, big bracket for a chance to win a new Stern pinball machine. There's also a classics event, and that runs over a few days. In fact, I think it's three. And it's just pump and dump, and you keep going. So you try to make whatever it is, top 32 or 16, whatever it is. And Robert and I have done a bunch of these, these pump and dumps. And even though you can start playing at, say, 9 in the morning, maybe they end at 1 in the morning, you're not playing that full 16 hours. You're going to get a bite to eat. You're taking a few hours off. But what Robert did, what I did in Germany, is something I haven't done over that four-day period. Every single game, every ball mattered. That's tough. That's the mental grind. You're getting 10 or 15-minute breaks at most between games. and you're just on, on, on, on. But you can't have an off ball, an off game. You're just like, oh, that's really going to wipe me out. And it's good to experience, but it's, I mean, Raymond Davidson won. The guy knows a little bit about winning number one player in the world. Yeah, so guys, I just need to just hit you up just for a second because I'm really just going boo-hoo to both of you because I want you to understand that whilst you're there going, oh, my God, it is so tough for me having to play pinball. oh my god and i only get a 15 minute break eight times think about the fucking people organizing these tournaments because they are there two hours before you they are there two hours after you and they don't get breaks so big shout out to those people like i always just listen to you going oh my god it's so bad that we have to play and every ball counts it's like try running a tournament that goes for 14 hours a day that's fucking hard going i gotta agree with marty he's right you're right. You're right. I'm going to double down on that. I mean, think about Tom Graff, nicest guy you'd meet. He's really nice. He's a great guy. I crashed at his place. There's three or four of us crashed at his place. He's getting there early. He's setting up the stream. He's rolling the rig around. Then he's going playing his matches and then he's moving the rig and he's making sure they've got commentators and he's there until the end every night going home. It was not fun to talk to Tom Sunday morning on the way out. He was fried. He was just fried. And I don't know how he made it through it, honestly. Plus, he's also got his son, Neil, there, who did really well himself, another great player. So he's parenting as well. I know he had Rachel did a wonderful job on the stream the whole time. So that was just really well done. And, Marty, you're right. I mean, Eric Thorne, here's something that players like. Eric did these six tournaments. do you know that that night he entered them in to ifpa so that the i saw that the results came out almost instantaneously like that's something tournament directors don't do all the time nor should they i mean they're busy like you say and there's other things going on but that's how dedicated eric was so he he certainly was the mvp of the weekend yeah so let's talk results who won what raymond and kaylee won a lot uh uh jared august won one i don't remember phil birnbaum phil phil took the first one i think he he played solid colin mcalpine never won one but he was he was near the top most of the time i wish i had the list so i've got all the list up on the ifpa of the individual tournaments but i don't have the list of how everybody finished which would be great to have because it had each each tournament listed and you could just check the points and kind of see where people finish. But, you know, it pumped Ray Day back up into number one. Kaylee jumped up to number three in the world The other winner you didn mention was Carl won I think four strikes So I would say Carl struggling earlier for Carl That doesn mean he wasn doing good It just there was four strikes where it was no strikes for top two one strike for the bottom, and he said, forget all of you. I'm done goofing around. He had no strikes when everybody else had two strikes, and then I think he had one when everybody had three, and he just trucked through everybody. He just didn't lose. And John DelZoppo of Ohio was the other winner. So it looks like there were six different winners, but pretty incredible. And it makes me wonder when you go to your next big event, which I'm guessing is going to be the Houston Arcade Expo. Is that right? Absolutely. So I'm going to give myself a little shout out. No, you? No, no. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay, you guys got 10 more minutes? Oh, shit. Here we go. No, Phil Grimaldi, one of the key guys building rigs and streaming stuff on Space City Pinball is TDing that tournament, and he's going to set up all his awesome stream, and we'll be going full board. But since he's TDing, he's asked me, as I've stepped up on streaming, to monitor the stream and make sure commentators are in and out, nobody's doing stupid, and he's going to let me stream that event on Top Rope Pinball. So you need to follow Top Rope and set up notifications because qualifications in the finals for the Houston Open are going to be there. And there may be some guest wrestler appearances in the booth occasionally commentating on the tournament. That's all I got for you right now. There's a classics event. There's the women's event and the main event at Houston Arcade Expo coming up middle to end of November. So we will watch Top Rope Pinball for that. Marty, you've stepped up your streaming on Melbourne Silver Ball. You've got the Sid and Marty, the Croft videos. The drinking is always top notch. It's nice to see your back doing it. But what do you think about Robert as the second best streamer on the TPN with wrestling intros?
    22:11
    Controversial. Because he's been bumped. Now that Rebby and Matt Hardy are on, I think they've had some experience doing wrestling intros. Robert. I know. You've created a monster. I know. What's awesome is Rebby came onto my stream and reached out, and we chatted back and forth, and she just absolutely loves it. So the first time I knew she was coming on to watch, I did a Matt Hardy intro. It was pretty cool. So she's always popping in, and she doesn't chat much, you know, because they don't want to get ran over with famous people, everybody wanting to chat with them. But her stream is growing, and she does a lot of variety stuff, but it was nice to see her and Matt officially join TPN, so that was cool. Can I ask, how famous are they? Pretty big in North America. So Matt and Jeff Hardy, I would say, were at one point in their heyday, they were A-list wrestling tag team. Okay. And so they were pretty top-notch. Most people will know Jeff because he's the high-flyer, jump-off ladders, and go crazy. But Matt's been a solid technical wrestler, and he's rebranded himself several different times, which is something that some wrestlers have to do to stay in the limelight. They're pretty well-known, and so is Reby. Rebby had, I think, a brief wrestling career, but man, that lady, I think she plays classical piano and she's done plays and she's done a lot of things in her career. So they're definitely known. Okay, cool. Yeah, they seem like lovely people. I just don't know who they are. And that's two reasons. Obviously, I'm not a wrestling fan. I know, disappointing for everybody. But also, I'm in Australia. So wrestling is, you know, it's a guilty pleasure here, which I think it's probably a guilty pleasure all around the world, but it really isn't all that popular here at all. Bullshit. I've been to Australia. I saw your $20 bill. The Bushwhackers were on it. I was going to say, Jeff, if Marty's ever around TPF or whatever and I can set up my stream, I'm still going to grab him. We're going to do a Bushwhackers intro. Absolutely. What's Bushwhackers? Oh, my gosh. Google it, dude. You're a fail. Fail. I wish you would have killed me now instead of Colin. Well, we could always redo that. Let's talk about that. So, Robert, Marty originally picked Colin McAlpine that he was going to save. No, I didn't. Over you. And I threw out some bullshit because Marty had a bad back that you were a professional masseuse. And he quickly switched. And I was full of shit. You owe me big time for that because you should be dead and six feet under. The only thing I would say is I disagree with you because I heard Marty kind of chirp up there. He hadn't fully committed to Colin. No, I hadn't. He was still wavering. Yeah. No, there was no flip-flopping there. I was, you know, formulating my case in my head. But, yeah, it had to be Robert in the end. And as I said, and I'll double down on it, Colin has had a long and fruitful life. I think he is well past his peak, and there's probably not much more left for him. Whereas I think Robert still has a lot left in him and a lot more achievements to be had. So there you go. Robert's creeping up to the 50 club. Yeah, but you know before 50 and after 50 are radically different. Yeah, that's a good point. One month, almost one month to the day, I'll turn 49. So I got a year left in me before I'm over the hill like you two old fucks. Yeah, we are old, but we're old and wise. And I say wise because we are post-50, so we know. We know. You know how they say, oh, life begins at 40 or life begins at 30, life begins at 50? It doesn't. Life ends at 50, and you will find out in a year and one month's time. Okay.
    26:13
    Pretty much. Waking up at 3 in the morning not to go on an airplane to Wisconsin because you're about to have your third piss when you're trying to sleep. That's what it's about.
    26:23
    And sometimes not waking up. Oh, fuck. I'll change the sheets. Okay. So Houston Arcade Expo is a big deal, and I recommend everyone check out that. Is it called Houston Arcade Expo? I know it's Space City. I always want to say the Space City Open. It's HAG, H-A-A-G. Houston Area Arcade Group is the group that started that. And I've been going to this since 2005 when it was just small potatoes. And then, you know, as Phil got into streaming and running tournaments, It slowly progressed from the people that were running it to Phil, and he brought it up to a top-notch tournament. And it is. It's the party show. Oh, yeah. There's no classics, Jeff. We don't have time for that. There's too much drinking going on. We don't have time for that. It's just the main tournament and the women's tournament. And now they do have a week of little events throughout the city coming up to that. But it's just the main tournament and have some fun. And the way he set up, there's two sessions each day, and you're either in the red or the blue. So you're only playing half the day, and then you're drinking the other half, and then you rotate through the next day. Yeah, it's tough to qualify in that for sure. You really have to come first or second in every game you play in qualifying. Last year it was like six games. So it's like you either finished first and five and third and once, or you took a last and you better sweep. This year it's expanded out. I think it's 12 rounds or something like that, but it's sold out, so it's solid. But Elizabeth Rone is going to put on an awesome women's tournament. So I don't know how the streaming is going to go. I know I'm going to have the streaming rig on one game during qualifying. I play the early bracket, so I don't know how much it will get moved on, but I'm playing early so I can stream the late bracket and move to different games and stuff like that. And then, of course, we'll stream the main group and finals and move around from there on Saturday night. That's what's unique. There ain't no Sunday at the Expo. It's Friday, Saturday, or Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Shoot, I don't know. The one thing we do have is we have the finals for the Texas Pinball League that we qualified for right before the pandemic hit. That's carrying over that we were supposed to do at Texas Pinball Festival in 2020. so lots going on for sure. Texas Pinball Festival is coming up in March and you guys always have your Texas Pinball League finals beforehand. You know, I'm not saying I'm one of them because I'm not, but there are people that get pissed off that you guys do that on the machines that are used for the Texas Pinball Festival tournament and the reason it bothers people is because that's a limited entry tournament. So people playing that, and this is what it's going to be like next year. You have 20 entries and 12 of your machines count. So you only get one crack at one of those machines, maybe two. And the Texas Pinball League guys are going to have some warm-ups on that. I would suggest, I know it's done for testing purposes. It doesn't look good. The optics aren't good. I'm just going to say it. I'm not trying to piss anybody off in Texas. I realize why you do it. it's a congregation where you can get together and do that because there's the group from Dallas, there's the Austin, there's the Houston people, San Antonio. You got to do it somewhere. But the optics, no matter what you say, unfortunately don't look good. So maybe there'll be something done differently. It's just I've heard Texas guys defend it and I've heard everyone else kind of say, ah, that seems a little odd. Yeah, it's a tough situation. You know, the original idea was play testing games. We've had a history of people offering games up for the tournament and they come in and they need completely rebuilt so there's the strategy originally was get some games on these things make sure they're ready because we do do it the day before and then there's a whole almost a whole day to tech stuff that anything that's broken but i get it i i get it it's the same and it's the different because of the limited entry but when i went up to district 82 there's 100 games that the locals have been playing and like i said The first couple rounds, oh, crap, that scoop shoots it down the middle or that scoop dead bounces here or hits the sling. I need to nudge that. So there's always a level of some people are going to know the games in the tournament no matter where they come from because they're coming from local. But I do understand your point. Yeah, the only thing that you hurt your cause there is you said earlier that I went from 34th to 31st and all the way up to 10th. So the more you play games, the better you get. And that's the case with all good players. You don't have that opportunity at TPF. Just saying that. So it's just something for consideration. Absolutely. And no, I am not a tournament director there. And I want to bring Marty in on this too. Marty, you have run big, big tournaments. And let's put all of us into the eyes of that tournament director. What does the tournament director want? They want to make sure all the machines work and they can find out bugs and fix any problems. What's the best way to do it? No question have people play the machines before the big event. So that is why I understand why the Texas Pinball League does that. Marty, you've run all kinds of big tournaments. Getting machines ready, that's something people don't see when they go to the event, do they? No, and it does take some time to really dial these things in. I mean, if it's in your collection, or if you've got access to the machines, you can maybe spend some time a week before setting them up. But for me, we've had to set up the event. So this was Flipout. So we've had to set up the event, get all the machines there, and then get them ready for the tournament. So we just don't really have a lot of time to get them ready in any way. And probably not enough time because you've got to make sure that the rules are set to the right level of difficulty. The play field itself has had some modifications if required, just so they all play around about the same time. Otherwise, it can absolutely throw out a tournament, which it did for, I think, the first big one that I did at Flipout where we had Terminator 3, which we just didn't have a lot of time to set up the difficulty. And so it was a real long player, which obviously, that's one of its biggest criticisms that it's a long player, but you can really toughen it up to make it a short player. We didn't have enough time on it to do it. And here's the thing. Those tournaments you run and TPF, limited tournaments are similar to pump and dumps. You're comparing your score against everyone else's. So you can't make big adjustments once that tournament has started. Correct. So that's why I do side with what Texas Pinball League is doing, is that they're playtesting these and they can make these adjustments. That's what Marty, you just mentioned it with Melbourne Super Bowl, you didn't have a lot of time. If you had a bunch of players playing for two hours, that would have been a godsend to you, correct? Correct. But I made sure that most of the playtesting was done by myself because I knew I wasn't going to be in the tournament. There is the key and why pinball tournaments are so difficult because unless you have a group of five or six people that are not going to play in the tournament to playtest, just as we talked about tournament directors playing in their own tournaments, We are just not at that level to have that type of stuff go on. So you're adjusting outlanes. You're adjusting rubbers. You're adjusting posts. You're adjusting tilts.
    33:59
    You're adjusting pitch. You're adjusting level. You're adjusting settings. It's just so much that you just – I think we may have 15 games at Texas Pinball Festival this year to get the 20% bonus. there's 15 games plus your 10 or 12 in classics that you're trying to get ready in a short amount of time and you just don't have the manpower yep for the people to do it so i get it i understand people are upset about it but you could almost say that about every single tournament yes it's somebody that has played some of those games that are in the tournament and knows them very well What makes Texas very difficult, which I will say, is its limited entry. If I was pump and dump, so be it. Play it a couple times, play it again, figure it out, and go. So I do get your point there. But there's just no way to do it where nobody that's in the tournament has anything to do with the machines pre-tournament. It's not my point. It's the arguments I hear all the time on the forums and stuff, and people have asked me off air. and I'll make it very clear and Marty, I think you and I probably are similar in this way. I hear people say, oh, you know what? Tournament directors shouldn't be in their own tournaments. I absolutely 100% disagree with that. In fact, I feel worse when tournament directors are not playing. When I watch Carl D'Angelo do what he does, not only in the four days at InDisc, but the weeks and months leading up to that to sit by and make sure hundreds of people are having a great time when he could be having a great time that's not normal that's that's saintly if anything and i feel bad when these people putting on these tournaments are not able to participate it really bothers me and it bothers me that people criticize things like that i you know how much i love carl d'angelo and i think he's a fantastic person I'm not sure whether he really has done enough to be canonized as a saint like officially by the Catholic Church I just want to put that out there to say he's a saint to Keith Elwin yeah I absolutely I would canonize him but no I just wanted to really wrap it up because I think Robert actually made the best point I know we're all surprised by that wait a minute wait a minute You're giving me the credit for something? I am. I am because I think what you've done is really highlighted every single scenario that we've just talked about. The one reason why it's like this is because it's just not big enough. It's not big enough. You could say Pimberg is because they've got people that are having to run it. It's so big so they're not in the tournament. But most tournaments, 95 out of 100% of tournaments are so small that you can't just have a tournament director just give up their time, put their machines in there and say, oh, I'm not playing. It's just not big enough for that. I mean, if you think about it, one of the guys in your neck of the woods that runs a lot of tournaments that knows what it's like to not be big enough, Ryan Seed. But it is what it is. The other guy that comes to mind with being saintly with Carl is Bowen. You know, how many years did he do Pemburg and not get to play in Pemburg? I mean, that's a guy that could have won that multiple times, but his focus was providing an excellent tournament. Yep, agreed. Yeah, and then all those Pittsburgh people as well. My goodness, everyone that worked for Papa. Yeah, I mean, that's not the norm. That's what I think made it the exception that they gave up their time. And boy, do we miss it now. But I did mention TPF. Marty, is that on the calendar now that Marty's lockdown is done, by the way? So is that next on the docket maybe for you for coming to North America? I hope so. Whether it's in a personal capacity or whether an official haggis capacity, either way, I fuck i just i want to get back over i mean you know it's so far in the future i want to be able to travel to another state not just another country so yes i would hope that tpf is absolutely on the cards either way you know i think i mentioned that god i don't know was it 18 months two years ago when it happened when the first sort of lockdown happened with covid which was kind of when was it like january february 2020 i think it was so i i we were going to tpf everything got cancelled so i believe my flights are still there the money is in credit so i can go i just don't know what it's going to look like but we'll talk post robert and about the whole covid thing i'll tell you what it's going to look like you're going to use that credit you're going to crash in my suite clark fraley is going to take pictures of us at five in the morning drinking that's what it's going to look like. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. I've got you both on here. Marty, Robert, who has had the bigger, not the most, but the bigger, maybe when I say bigger, messier drinking streams, Marty or Robert? I don't know. All I know is the first drinking stream I had, I fell into the bookcase twice. I stained my carpet with my turkey dyed feather boas that got wet with alcohol i dressed up as macho man and jumped off a cocktail table onto a six foot bear with the drop the elbow from the top rope it was pretty epic and speaking of that you know i just streamed episode 149 this morning so i think next weekend i think 150 needs to be a drinking stream and i think marty needs to figure out how to come on and yeah discord why why we're drinking. Yeah. Make it happen Make it happen Wow You really needed a special milestone episode to get Marty to drink That was a tough one Did you notice the real hesitation
    40:10
    Wow. Hey, it's a special episode 136. Oh, wow. That's a mile. Let me get out the gin. One plus three plus six equals ten. Let's drink. Yeah. Absolutely. No excuse needed. I'll be there. All right. Robert, we'll let you go. Did you see that I was representing Top Rope Pinball when I was on JDL Pinball in Germany? Did you see that? I gave you a shout out. That was nice of you. That was a nice looking shirt. Speaking of that, let me give a shout out to Silver Ball Swag. So they're going to have a lot of shirts there from a lot of different streamers. So there will be some Top Rope Swag there at Expo for you to pick up. So you might check out their booth. They'll get your favorite shirt or favorite cap. I don't know what all they're going to have, but I know they're going to have shirts. Robert, anything else you'd like to say before we say so long? No. I'm tired. I'm tired and I'm exhausted. It's all from last weekend. I'm catching up. All right. Where's the reach around? Oh, yeah. The reach around is right over there. It's right in front of the Texas State Championship and TPF trophies. It's right in the center of them. And just, you know, reaching around through those championships. And there it is, Fonzel in my balls. Stuart from Haggis says, hi. Thank you very much, Robert. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. That was Robert Byers. But, Jeff, what did we learn? Hmm. I liked what you said. I liked what he said about these long weekend tournaments and the toll it takes on the players. And you rightfully said, you know what? it's the TDs that also have non-stop and have to deal with issues and putting out fires, problem solving, all that kind of stuff. It's funny. You're exhausted afterwards, but not much time passes and you're like, okay, when's the next one? Yeah, that is true. When Melbourne Silver Ball, that big event, the flip out, when that's done, are you, oh, I don't even want to think about pinball for a while. What's it like for you? No, it's actually quite interesting because, as you know, I don't play in it. So at the end of it, I'm completely exhausted, but I'm thinking, okay, bring on a tournament that I can play in. Are you going to play in some more tournaments? Because you haven't done a lot in the last year. There are no tournaments. No, they're coming back. You guys are out of lockdown. I will. Yeah, I'm feeling good about getting back into tournaments. Do you realize, had you not streamed the last tournament I played in Australia, I won't talk about it, but you chose not to play in that. That's true. You're a good player. imagine if you played in one I would have no ammo, no fire, no cockiness, it would all be gone so you know what, you get pissed off every time I try to bring it up, which I can't it's your fault, had you played you could have shot me up Ryan C couldn't do it, everybody else in Australia couldn't, but maybe you Marty no that's true, I mean everyone was obviously just being really nice to you bullshit we won't talk about it because banned from Talking about it. Why don't you play in a tournament? They've got to be coming up because you're out of lockdown now. This is big news. This is the biggest news over the last few weeks. Finally, Melbourne has ended the longest lockdown in the world. So what are you doing with that?
    43:29
    I don't know because we've been out of lockdown before. I kind of am feeling a little bit hesitant to get out there and get back to normality. And we're not back to normality. We're out of lockdown. our meaning we now don't have have to have five reasons for leaving home which is you know getting groceries going to a doctor to get a covid test two other things i can't remember what they are so you know we can travel we can now have people over to our home which is a big deal but you know retail still is not completely open in fact retail is outdoor retail so that's not really normal so And we had this, and also the curfew has been lifted. So everyone had to be at home at nine o'clock. So that's now been lifted. It's because we got to 70% double dosing. I think when we get to 80%, which is in about four weeks time, it will get back to probably more normality then. At 80%, Ian will visit. I'm guessing. I could be wrong. Who knows? Well, well, funny you say that because I think at about 80%, that's when international travel restrictions are lifted. And I was talking to somebody on the stream last night and they're saying, For business, it's pretty much lifted at the moment, but personal international travel, still not really allowed. And you've got to go into two weeks quarantine, etc. Serious, you can't go anywhere. What about other states? I really need to look that up, but up until recently, no. Because state borders are controlled by the states. International borders are governed by the government, obviously. So, yeah, we'll see. Some sense of normality. I don't think I'm really going to feel that we are back to some sense of normal till the end of the year, new year. So, you know, and tournaments have started, but none of them are really IFPA at this stage because they're just not getting the numbers. So it'll happen. It'll happen. I'm not fussed. A lot of people have been stressing out about this and, you know, have been really feeling it. I haven't. I've been okay throughout the whole thing. So it's not a big deal for me. You've been busy. I think that's what helps, too. Yeah. Because, by the way, love what Damien and you and everybody at Haggis is doing with these almost daily videos of here are different aspects of the machines. And you're seeing Kelts. You're even seeing Fathom Revisited. I like that. That's good on you. And it's got to be very exciting for your customers. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because we see that every day. And we know how much effort is going into Kelts and to Fathom. I don't think everybody else could really appreciate, you know, just how advanced we were with our manufacturing capability. So I think it was really important for people to know that it's a real company. It's a real company and we are delivering pinball machines. You know, there's some conversation around Haggis and some comparisons to another company. And we were just like, hang on. No, no, no, no, no, no. We're not. We are actually delivering machines. There have been, you know, the delays. I mean, you and I speak, so you know the delays as I tell you. And it really is. COVID has just made it so difficult for us. But I think that the point of these videos and the point of Damien's last update is we are still pushing through this. And it is a significant delay. There is no doubt about it. And we absolutely regret that. That's a delay. But we are still forging ahead. Games are coming. Work is being done. And, you know, there's been some changes of people. And that's also COVID related. Some people just don't need to work and so they don't. And others just have done different things. Well, we're going to miss Greg Silby. That's too bad. I assume let go. Is that correct? No, I absolutely love working with Greg, and obviously with all of them, because they're just great people. But it's that kind of stuff. They're the challenges that come your way. And I don't want to get into a defensive position either, but throughout the years, particularly head-to-head, when there was criticisms of the manufacturers, I've always said, think about the people. Think about the fact that you've got all these games and there's mechanical components, electrical components, whatever it is, But managing people is also something that you've really got to factor in. And we don't really think about it. And that is just yet another variable that happens in running a business. And, you know, that's where we are. But we've got a great team. It's growing. Our capability is growing significantly. I think it's a good news story. Not everybody thought it was a good news story, but it is. You and I have talked, obviously, weekly for quite some time, for years, even before we We're doing fun around, in fact. Yeah, correct. And, you know, when you were struggling to make head-to-head good, hey, Jeff, what can we do? And I'm like, oh, things like that. But I'm kidding. Yeah, of course, obviously. I've known the progress that's been happening at Haggis. And to actually see some of this, I think there might have been some people unknown. I'm like, okay, where are we with, certainly with Celts, with Fathom? And I even asked you, this is off air months ago. I'm like, okay, so I know you're doing the Kelts and getting these out, finishing off the orders there. Have you started on Fathom yet? And the answer is yes, because it's not like one thing has to be completely done. Okay, now we bring in other things. No, you've got a lot of progress done on Fathom, so that's exciting. And again, for those people that have purchased that, you're going to be very excited. Yeah, well, obviously, I think so too, because I've seen it and I know it. I wrote the rules for 2.0. Are they done? Yeah. All right, here we go. Let's talk about it. There's some tweaking to be done. There's some balancing that needs to be done. You know, light shows need to be, you know, tweaked, et cetera. But, you know, the framework's been done. I've worked on that for a long time. But, yeah, you're right. These things don't – we don't get to the end of Fathom and then go, okay, let's open up the manual for building Fathom and start that. That's been working in tandem as well. You thought he was just doing podcasts and slacking work. Hell no. But remember, what I've also been doing at Haggis is, I mean, no one's going to give a shit about this but me, but I am fucking loving it there because I've been getting involved in a lot of the print room stuff as well, so creating playfields and plastics and art and decals and all that kind of stuff. So for me, my journey at Haggis has been phenomenal. Did you add a bulge to that loincloth? I saw a bit of the side art there, and I thought, that's a little bigger than normal. No, I didn't need to add anything. It was a picture of me.
    50:28
    Speaking of pictures of people, have you seen what the Odin character looks like on Legends of Valhalla? It's this big old, he's got an eye patch, long gray hair. You were wondering why I was growing the hair. Now you know. Yeah. So, hey, look, I'm excited for American Pinball. I don't know if I've ever really said this. I think the people that are following it kind of understood. So Scott Gullix, who created this, along with Frank Giolotti, they asked me long, years ago, for their prototype. Hey, do you want to do a few lines for this? Of course. I've done that for a few homebrewers to help out. I'll do that for anybody. Just if they need something, here you go. I like seeing the success of homebrews, and these people are really the future of pinball. So anything I can do to help, whether it's promote or that, glad to help and then they made seven of these machines i didn't know it was going to be that and they're out in location in fact there's this place called brad's garage in hamilton ohio they actually have one of the seven prototypes and they've had it there for quite some time that probably caught the eye of american and they contacted scott and frank said hey we want to mass produce this thing so i gotta say pretty exciting pretty cool i'm gonna tell you something else as exciting as that is i gotta tell you the thing i'm most excited about well done american pinball first of all for bringing on scott and frank but for bringing on our good friend steven bowden thank god in my mind i just think absolutely that he's just a no-brainer to use a bit of a cliche it's like well yeah of course you would steve's great obviously we didn't get to see his game in the wild but we saw enough of the rule set to know it was very clever and he's obviously very clever so that makes a lot of sense so well done yeah very very exciting for sure so let's talk legends of Valhalla so when it was announced I I didn't immediately like like the Steve I didn't immediately go oh yeah absolutely that makes sense I went huh okay I I get that it kind of fits in with American Pinball's sort of wheelhouse in that they I mean arguably Hot Wheels is a big license, but they don't necessarily go for the major expensive licenses. It is a great looking game. I've never played it, but it looks great. The rules look great. And I thought to myself, yeah, this makes sense. I mean, a lot of it's probably already done. I mean, taking it from homebrew to a production machine is a very different process. It's not like they go, oh, okay, control C, control V, copy paste. You've still got to then bring that into American Pinball's manufacturing ecosystem, which is very different. There's probably different parts. There's different construction techniques. It's all very different. So I can understand that it's probably taken them a while to get it where it is right now. But I just looked at it and went, yeah, I think that's a great move for them. I still don't know how many units they're going to sell just based on theme alone, which I love the theme. I've always loved Valkyries and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I think it's a good movie for them. Yeah, tough to say. I have no idea myself. I mean, I've always said theme is very important to put quarters into a machine or dollars into a machine when you're on location. Oh, I like that movie. I like that TV show. I like that band. I wonder what the game's like. The second quarter is the most important one because you have to have a good experience playing the game, And there are some great themes out there that the experience isn't that great. So really, what it comes down to for me, especially in a home collection, is how's the gameplay? How's the code? How's the animation? All that kind of good stuff. If that's good, I could give two fucks what the theme is. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I can think of a bunch of games where I really don't even like the theme, but the game's awesome.
    54:32
    Rattle them off the top of your head. And conversely, I can think of games with, oh, that's a perfect theme. Holy shit, you fucked that up. Star Wars.
    54:40
    Let's have a look. Yep. Yeah, I'm somewhere in the middle. I like, I've said, one of these things that I say all the time is, I like a game to make you feel something. Feel something. Not necessarily feel good, but just feel something. and theme is an integral part on how you can feel when you're playing a pinball machine. Yes, gameplay can be shit, but it sometimes can be compensated by a good theme.
    55:11
    So there we go. I don't know what to do about that. Anyway, so you have done the call-outs in Legends of Valhalla is really the point of it. What was the process like? Matt Kern, excellent producer, sound engineer. David Fix, obviously Scott and Frank had the call-outs in there before, and when David signed them to come on board American Pinball, they heard the voices, and I think Frank was doing a lot of the voices, kind of just filler, and David asked me if I'd like to reprise that role and do some new call-outs, and then they hired some voice actors for some of the other call-outs. So I did a couple of Zoom sessions, kind of with my home studio here, and it was great. It was fun. Matt was good to work with, much like David Thiel in my experience with Raza. Let's put it this way, when you have pros like these guys, they can make probably anybody sound good. So I thank them for their guidance. And Matt was a lot of fun, especially this theme, the Norse gods and that mythology. I don't really know a lot about it. I kind of know the mood that they were looking for. Let's be honest. If you think of Vikings, they're not the greatest people in the world. You know, They might have brought back slaves, had concubines, things like that, mass murderers. They're not great people. So it's a lot of war, and it's a lot of violence and stuff, which is not everybody's cup of tea. Got it. But I could put myself into that situation. It was fun. I guess the story of the game, and I hope I'm not wrong, is the hero, I guess, had his either family or wife slaughtered. And it's kind of a vengeance thing, you know, to get revenge. And I think she becomes this angel. I think you can see her actually on the side of the cabinet with her wings and everything. A Valkyrie, I believe. They're the Valkyries, yeah. So that's kind of the story of the game. And it looks good. I saw it actually streamed. Stefan Riedler from RS Pinball in Austria happened to be in Chicago, and he was with Michael Grant from American, and he was just Facebook-living it. But that was my first look at it on Sunday, and it looks great. Yeah, it does look great. Yeah, so congrats. So my second thought after resolving that in my mind going, yep, good, was I kind of wished they'd done Wrath of Olympus as well, or maybe they'll consider it for the future. Because I think Wrath of Olympus, for me, looks a better game. Yeah, I wouldn't rule that out. And I do not know. So I can say, you know, if I did know, I'd say, oh, who knows? But I don't know.
    57:45
    So everybody in future, whenever he says that, you know he knows. I don't know. I'm commenting on it because I actually do not know. But you're right. That is an interesting layout. They had done it on virtual pinball. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. Yeah. So that's how it got kind of popular. So yeah, Wrath of Olympus was originally done on a virtual pinball. And that's, I think, how Frank saw Scott because it was available for anybody. And then they made the physical machine. So I don't know. Who knows? Scott, in the interview on Pinball Profile, said he'd like to continue the relationship with American Pinball. So fingers crossed. Yeah, look, I hope so because Wrath of Olympus, great layout, great rules. It just looked great. Then you've got Legends of Valhalla, which continues that. So obviously he's very talented. They're very talented, right, pinball? So I think that bodes well if they continue to use his skills. You mentioned Hot Wheels. I did. Another American pinball machine. I really got to play a lot of it when I was in Germany. We haven't talked about that. Yeah, I know. The reason the show is late is I actually got sick, and I was on vocal rest for about six days. Everyone was hoping it was longer. Fuck off. It wasn't. I'm allowed to talk now. The tournament I went to was spectacular, and please listen to that Pinball Profile episode where I talk about Bulls and Balls. But I want to talk about that game specifically, Hot Wheels. Fun, fun game to play. I mean, just lots of flow. The RPM thing was very unique. So I'm looking forward to seeing more of these games come out. When I was there, people were playing that. They had Jersey Jacks, Guns N' Roses there. And it's the same thing I hear from a lot of different people. When it's not a Stern game, especially newer players, they're like, it feels different. It feels different. Yeah. Yeah, it does feel different. Yeah. That doesn't make it bad. I just bought a new car. And one of the reviews about the car is like, it doesn't really feel like a car. feels more like a truck about an SUV. And I'm like, that's a negative thing if it feels like a truck. Who gives a shit? Yeah. Yeah, look, I agree. And I remember, you know, when I streamed Houdini and also when I streamed Oktoberfest, it was really the same. It just felt really different. And if I played one or two games and walked away, I would have gone I don know whether I really enjoyed myself But because I had to stream for a few hours i got used to it i got used to the way the flippers feel the rubbers are very different the layouts are obviously very different but after a while when you then get tuned into this new game from a new manufacturer it all just starts to come together and you know even back further when i was playing full throttle by highway first couple of games i just thought this is trash after a while i started getting it and realizing that the shots are in different locations that you're used to but once you work it out it's still good pinball i love that game i played that with bowen karens yeah pintastic in fact it was a competition game and i went oh congrats bowen he goes you don't want to play it i said no and he goes well he bones great he tells you exactly this you have to do he can do it other mortals can't but you know at least he lets you know which I thought was really kind, much like his tutorials. Yep. Loved playing that game. And it's funny you mention that because in Germany, because of Pinball Universe in Germany and because of RS Pinball, they brought all these games I had never played. And this is my first big tournament since the pandemic hasn't ended, but you know what I mean, since we were allowed to travel. So I got to play, Marty, Alien. Oh. This is the Pinball Brothers version. It was fun. Good game. A little dark, but I remember, I think it was you guys on Head to Head that were commenting on, maybe it was Slam Tilt, about when you don't complete a mode, it pops up fail. It really makes you feel like shit. And you guys were like, oh, that sucks. No, it's fine. It's good. Yeah. They had Big Lebowski. Yeah. But you'd played that before, though. I flipped it once years ago. Okay. Years ago. It's been three or four. God, I love that game. Yeah, it's fun. Am I wrong? Is that game not fun to play? No, it's a fun game. I played that at Sunshine Laundromat, and it was fun. Lots of fun. The other games they had there? This one really shocked me. Heavy Metal. Oh, the stern one. Yes. Heavy Metal. So it has the Star Wars pin layout. And if you remember, there's kind of an interesting way to lock the ball, and then you hit some drop targets and then bang the ball out to start multi-ball. But this had a DMD display, unlike that small LCD display on the Star Wars pin. Okay. Fun game. Sounded amazing, too. Like, really good. God, good game. And the other game they had there was Heist. I finally got to play Heist. Oh, okay. Still, sorry, Twippies, the best toy of last year was that crane, hands down. Yeah, okay. So I got a few pins in that. I still haven't played Rick and Morty, still haven't played Godzilla. I want to play that Jurassic Pin. Congrats, Jack Danger. That thing looks great. Do you know what? It's got to say, it's the first time the Pin series from Stern has been released, and people haven't been banging on about how cheap it looks or how featureless it is. Everyone's kind of like, oh, hang on, that's a real pinball machine, and it's cheaper. Do you know how when somebody makes a pinball machine, the compliments are fine and everything, but people actually do want some constructive criticism. I looked at that and I'm like, what can I say? So I was talking to Jack, sent him a note, and I said, the only negative thing I can think about that game is operators are going to wish there was a coin box on that. Yeah. That looks like a lot of fun. It does, doesn't it? It does. I've always liked the pins, the home versions of certain games. they might not necessarily have the deepest code is probably the only criticism but other than that it's a pretty good almost you know 100 crazy layout that a stern machine has so and they flip really well i mean it still feels like a stern yep so they're good games mark silk loves his star wars pin he had the star wars i believe and switched it for the pin loves it way more and I can't disagree with him. You and I both think that Spider-Man pin, which is Supreme as well. Fun, fun game. Ed's got a Supreme and he thinks, I said, did you buy it and then sell it? He's like, no, he loves the game. So, yeah. The pins are looking good and that Jurassic Park, the RoboCop ramp jump, thank you for bringing that back in. I love that shot. The Jurassic Park grabs the ball and this is a pin, that mech? Are you kidding me yeah yeah yeah and maybe that's why there hasn't been so much criticism about its features because it's pretty stacked yeah some good pinball we're gonna see and i'm gonna see a few more pinball machines this week sorry marty i know you're gonna get out and about soon but expo i bought my plane ticket i'm going there i'm gonna get a couple of swabs and all that kind of good stuff uh i get to see all these games and and some people too i wish there were people from outside north america i wish some of our european friends and australians were there too i say that just to be polite i really don't give a shit but um obviously i do i do yeah no uh it'll be i i would imagine a scaled down expo wouldn't you think i'm not close enough to obviously couldn't be further away from north America at the moment to know what impact it still has on those sorts of events. But I couldn't imagine it would be like 100% capacity like they usually have. Capacity-wise, I would guess no, but seminar-wise, I looked at that and I was like, holy shit, that's a full slate. Yeah, it is. I'm going to go to more seminars than I normally do. And I'll play some tournament stuff too. There's a chance to see people I haven't seen in a long time. Do you know I've never met the guys from Loser Kid Pinball, and unfortunately I will this week. I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing Scott and Josh this week. Well, as you know, they're lovely. They are. One more so than the other, but that's an aside.
    66:02
    No, it should be good. Glad there's a lot of sponsors there. You know, speaking of sponsors, we should probably tackle ours this week. It's our sponsor of the week.
    66:12
    As we get back to normal, more and more people are traveling by plane once again, and you'll find nothing but comfort on the new Final Round Airlines. We know the things that make air travel annoying, so we apply a zero-tolerance method for those that break the unwritten rules. Like sitting in the window seat and getting up more than once to use the bathroom. That's a no-no. Do that and you'll be shoved into an overhead compartment for the rest of your flight. If you talk to the stranger beside you non-stop as they try to sleep, not on Final Round Airlines you won't. A flight attendant will be right there to knock your teeth out. Sure, other airlines will provide safety by insisting everyone wears a mask. We go one step further for the non-complying. We throw you off the plane. Hope you brought a parachute on your carry-on. Other rules include if you grab the seat in front of you to get out of your chair. Instant punch to the mouth. If you hold onto every chair as you go up and down the aisle, expect to be kicked violently to the ground. What about crying babies? Ever see the last episode of M.A.S.H.? Welcome to Final Round Airlines. sit still keep quiet and no one gets hurt i'm looking forward to the final round airlines because i forgot what i missed about airplanes those oh fuck why do people when they get up have to grab the back of your seat especially on a long flight stop fuck off stop i'm trying to sleep you don't need to fucking grab everything i know i know i don't mind you pulling the tray down, up and down. That's fine. No big deal. But when you're getting up, the big shove, oh, I want to kill one. Just no. I, for short haul, I always go the window seat. Me too. But long haul, I kind of always go the aisle just because I don't want to disturb people when I need to go to the bathroom. I wish other people had that courtesy. See, I disagree. Long haul, you're probably going to sleep. So if you're in that aisle seat, two things are going to happen. The person beside you is going to say, excuse me, I'm sorry, I've got to go pee. Or when the flight attendants come up and down the aisle, they're going to bang into you. I'm a bigger guy, right? So I'm going to, you know, my big, huge, wide shoulders, you know, I look like a football player. You know how it is. You know what it is. Yeah, big head, yep. Yeah, exactly. So there's, I like to keep my spot in the window and just curl up there. And I guess your next flight, we talked about it with Robert, is maybe TPF? Because you're not- I hope so. Yeah? I hope so. That would be really good. And I think that that's a realistic amount of time from now that it would be very likely. I hope to see you there. That'll be great. And thinking of those two big festivals got me thinking of your favorite game of all time. And it's Who Will Marty Save?
    68:54
    So two big festivals. Rob Burke runs Pinball Expo. Ed Van Der Veen, Texas Pinball Festival. unfortunately because of marty's marty you're like thanos in a way you want to snap and give half the people so correct right oh shit this isn't this isn't like one person versus the other this is thousands of people that are going to die you really escalated this very quickly well we've got a lot of shows coming up so i mean we are going to be the thanos snap of podcasts so Well, unfortunately, it's a decision that you have to make between Ed Van Der Veen, you've been to TPF, Rob Burke, who's run the longest running pinball expo of all time. And unfortunately, you, for reasons we're about to hear, have to decide which one's going to kick it. And I don't mean kick it, but just, you know, snap, you're gone. All right. Die. Obviously, let's just say it is. Okay, I'm going to do my usual roundabout way of being able to kill somebody, but without really actually feeling like I'm killing that person. So I've never met either of those two people. Ed Vanderveen, you were at TPF. No, I've never met Ed. No, I didn't meet Ed. So I don't have any biases to them as individuals.
    70:18
    Wait a second. I don't mean to interrupt, but Rob Burke, after we did virtual expo last year, came on and commended both of us. So in a way, he met you. Yeah, but I haven't met him. So what I'm saying still stands. So besides pinball, what's my other favorite thing in the world? I would say Irish dancing. Okay. Yep, I do love that. But my third favorite thing is food. Yes. So I love food. so it then comes down to uh texas versus well so where is tpf anyway it's new dallas isn't it it's new dallas yeah yeah so we're talking dallas versus chicago right yeah so we're talking deep dish is a deep dish pizza deep pan pizza whatever it is it's massive steaks too in the midwest are you kidding me it's garrett's popcorn it's yep versus american barbecue in texas both are good both are very good but in this particular case i could not live without american barbecue when i went to tpf that the show was great it was awesome it was it was fine it was it was amazing but the thing i remember the most was going to hard eight and having the most phenomenal american barbecue and yes i want to come back to the show because i want to meet the people you're all amazing i I really want to come back for the American barbecue. So I'm sorry that Chicago Pimple Expo has to go. Everybody inside as well, they're all dead because Marty likes his American barbecue. There you go. Do you know how many people are going to go up to Rob Burke and say, hey, I'm sorry about your loss? And he's like, what are you talking about? Oh, you're an inevitable death thanks to the curse that Marty Robbins put on you. Yeah, but those people that have had American barbecue in Texas know exactly what I'm saying. And I say that because I'm really saying that Chicago is known for its deep – is it deep dish or deep pan pizza? It's deep dish pizza, and the locals will say it's Lou Malnati's or the tourists will – Yeah, I went to Lou Malnati's, yeah. It's good. The tourists will go to Gino's. I'm a Giordano's guy. So the reason why I bring that up is that a lot of people, when they talk about the deep dish pizza in Chicago, some people like it, some people don't. But everybody likes American barbecue in Texas. Do you know who doesn't like deep dish pizza? Who? Another dead man, do you? Keith Elwin. Ah, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you share that with them, yet still want him deceased. No, I didn't share. No, I like deep dish pizza. I loved it. I went to Luma on that and it was amazing. So, you know, it's just that I so desperately want to go back to Hard 8. And so, anybody, reach out to me. If there is, in Texas, if there's a better place than Hard 8, let me know. It was just a place that was recommended to me and it was amazing. But I want to come back and I want to have the best American barbecue you can ever have. You're also forgetting what a burger. I mean, you have... I've never had it. Oh, fuck. Oh, good. So good. Okay. You got to go. But here's a little tidbit, and we want to give a shout-out to Wayne Tedder. Wayne just set the world record just nearby here at Player One in Mississauga. He set the world record for playing 48 hours of consecutive pinball, and I had a chance to talk to him. So we'll just play that right now. First of all, Wayne, congratulations on setting the Guinness World Record for longest continuous playing of a pinball machine. 48 hours. Are you nuts? Thank you. And fancy your second quarter? Yes.
    73:55
    You have to be to want to stand for 48 hours. It was a fun event, but it's one of those, even towards the end, though I was still doing okay, you start to feel it in your legs, and you just start to cramp up along the way. But I'm very happy I did it. It was a marathon. I did 24 hours, and I've done that a couple of times where you're playing, but there's time to sit down in between games and a little bit of not really power naps, but maybe there's a 50-minute, okay, I'm just going to shut my eyes and not do anything. You didn't have that luxury. In a way, we did. The Guinness record set it up so that you can have a five-minute break every hour, but you can also bank that time. So what I did is I played for four straight hours, and then you have the 20 minutes off. So I could sit, have a little something to eat perhaps, and then get back to the machine. But, you know, for the first few stints, it's four hours and sit, four hours and sit. It's no problem. It's a breeze. After hour 30, those 20 minutes go by like two minutes. My wife is on the sidelines. You've got to get back. I don't have to get back. I have new. I've got to get back. This was done at Player One in Mississauga, and it was done on the Beatles machine, although there was a duplicate machine in case something went wrong. Correct. Now, again, according to Guinness, you can have a backup machine, certainly, but it had to be the same model. So it's not like I could jump from, say, Beatles to Avengers or Beatles to Deadpool. It had to be the very same game. And it held up? It did. It ran like a Rolex. It was just beautiful. It's just absolutely flawless. I don't know how you did it. Again, going back to the only thing I can compare is those 24-hour runs at the Sanctum. You know, Jeff, it was after I broke the record, after the 30 hours and 10 minutes, and there was a crowd on hand. I had a lot of friends. A lot of coworkers came by. And there's that high five and everything else. Get back to the game. And it was about half an hour later. It's like a body said, whoa, we're done. We're good. And it's like, no, no, no. We're just a little over halfway there. We've got to keep going. I'm like, turn the adrenaline back on, turn all this back on. We still have a long way to go. And I was able to power through that. The only real glitch, I'll say, happened around the 1.30 in the morning on the Saturday where I just suddenly didn't feel all that great and became very cold and very clammy. And as luck would have it, it was like a spider that's on the ropes, but it's the end of the round. Saved by the bell. So I turned to a friend, how much time do I have left? Oh, you have two minutes until break. I need the break. Just step outside, get some air, a sip or two of orange juice, and then I was back and I was good again, fortunately. because that was rough for about five minutes. And then from there, it was just we sailed to the finish line. Did you take any medication? No. Nothing? Jeff, you know what's really interesting is that, you know, even friends with bringing coffee, I said, well, no, I don't want to over-caffeinate myself. And I had an accruer just in case. Let's see, we only have a couple of the energy drinks here. No, I just didn't want the caffeine spikes or anything like that. Really, all I had was I'd sip on a coffee as people brought them in, but really just keep myself hydrated. It was really, for the most part, really just straight water. And you crushed the record, too, by the way. It was, wasn't it 30, 31 hours? It was 30 hours and 10 minutes. What made you decide to go to 48? Did you know that going in, or were you like, okay, anything after 31 is a bonus? I wanted 48. Wow. Just, you know what, it was just, just as a real reason behind it, I don't have one. I just, you know what, it would be fun to try 48. Let's go back to your first question about nuts, but I thought, you know, it would be fun, fun, nuts to try for 48. and I was happy to do it. I was happy. I'm glad I didn't have to stop it short on the Saturday night. I mean, with really only seven hours to go, I think it would have been, even with the record, I would have been really disappointed if I had to stop. I made it to 48 and it worked out just well. I mean, for Jerry and Player One who accommodated the event, so many people went out of their way. I didn't want to let them down either. I said 48, we're doing 48. And money was raised for charity. Right. It's the Playroom Experiment. And the idea of the Playroom Experiment is really supporting kids with special needs, be it autism or other learning challenges, and it's through gaming through inclusion. And the machine that was beside me, the identical Beatles machine, is going into a local high school. Yeah, that's in Petrolia, Ontario. So I was very excited when Mike Primo first told me about that. And good for you, Wayne. I wonder how the next few days were for you. You know what? They went really well. I mean, as I said, not to bid on Saturday. And yesterday was really work-related things because my office was really good about me taking the, especially the week leading into it. You have all the details worked out until you don't. And there's always that last minute, oh, no, oh, no, that's not going to be handled. I have to reach out to this person. My wife was completely on the side with this from day one. She worked out the volunteer schedule, makes sure paper proper paperwork is filled out, and just kind of cleaning up everything work-related so I could leave the office for a few days. And yesterday was kind of getting back to normal. A lot of people are really proud of what you've done, Wayne. It's a heck of an accomplishment. No one can ever take that away from you. And now you're in the Guinness World Book of Records. Congratulations. Jeff, thank you very much, and thank you for reaching out. And, you know, it was really an honor to do it. I've played pinball since I was six, and like I said, people ask me, so that puts my first game, racks up my first game in 1970. and it's just that something, if I can give back something through pinball, I mean, it was just a home run. That's awesome. Look, obviously amazing. I mean, 48 hours on Beatles, that's amazing. I can't imagine 48. There is a second win, but if you do 48, there's got to be a second, third, fourth. Yeah. And the next day, him and his wife are doing this and that. Like, I'd be conked for a week, but... Yeah, I couldn't imagine the recovery. Yeah. Pretty amazing stuff. All right. We are not going to do a long 48 hours. In fact, we're going to take two weeks off. A fortnight, as some like to say. We'll be back the next time. Where can you reach us? You can email us at finalroundpinball at gmail.com. You can go to Facebook and just search up Final Round Pinball. Final Round Pinball podcast on Instagram, at Final Round Pin on Twitter. That's us. Talk to you in two weeks. I'm Geoff Teolis. I'm Martin Robbins. Thanks, everybody. Speak soon.