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Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 8

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 53m·analyzed·Jan 13, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Neil McRae reports on Indus tournament and Stranger Things flipper improvements; discusses Gottlieb classics and aftermarket flipper modifications.

Summary

Neil McRae and Scott Rundell discuss Neil's recent tournament experiences at Indus in Los Angeles and the Turkey Fry Up at Pinball Republic, with extended technical analysis of Stranger Things Premium's new flipper bushings, TK lock mechanism issues, and comparisons to Precision Flippers aftermarket upgrades. They also explore Gottlieb classic games encountered at tournaments.

Key Claims

  • Stranger Things Premium uses new glass-filled polymer flipper bushings with less than 6mm end play vs. old nylon bushings with ~50mm, significantly improving flipper power

    high confidence · Neil McRae, observed at Indus tournament; corroborated by Pinside post #19573 from user Diablo Rush

  • The TK lock mechanism on Stranger Things Premium hasn't been meaningfully fixed; Stern shortened the ramp but the underlying mechanism remains problematic

    high confidence · Neil McRae, firsthand play on brand new game at Indus; owns LE at home for comparison

  • Indus tournament featured 18 games in main bank, 8 in high stakes, ~20 in classics banks, 20 in match play, and 20 B-play games from Captain's Auction House

    high confidence · Neil McRae, tournament organizer present at event

  • New Stern flipper bushings reduce end play to <6mm vs Precision Flippers which achieve <1mm, making Stern's solution cheaper and accessible without separate kit

    high confidence · Neil McRae discussing Pinside technical analysis; Scott Rundell confirms experience with Precision Flippers

  • Stranger Things Premium uses a different projector manufacturer, slightly brighter with better lumens but still has alignment issues

    high confidence · Neil McRae, observed at Indus tournament on brand new game

  • Precision Flippers' metal construction can cause alignment issues over time because clasps don't grip metal as well as original components

    medium confidence · Scott Rundell, firsthand experience installing on multiple games

  • Turkey Fry Up tournament at Pinball Republic had 60 registered players with significant no-shows and late arrivals, won by Andy Foster

    high confidence · Neil McRae, event organizer

  • Stern Stranger Things Premium's Demodog mouth was elongated, making it harder to hit accurately than earlier versions

    high confidence · Neil McRae, observed at Indus; notes Paul M. Fresh had dialed in his Pro version for consistency

Notable Quotes

  • “The flippers on this game were the most powerful flippers I have ever used. Ever.”

    Neil McRae @ ~mid-content — Dramatic emphasis of Stranger Things Premium's new flipper mechanism as a major technical breakthrough

  • “I was dancing, I was like, 'Yes, I've won this.' And he was player four and the man's on the scene.”

    Neil McRae @ ~early-mid content — Describing competitive disappointment at Indus tournament when leading player Eden Stan came back to beat him on Wizard

  • “If they need you to improve it, they better be sending me a new mech. Do you know what I mean? Because that's kind of an admission that the one that's in there is a load of old rubbish.”

    Neil McRae @ ~mid-content — Skeptical assessment of Stern's TK lock improvements, suggesting patch-like nature rather than real fix

  • “If you just simply just say, right, put some new bushings in and get the same kind of result, at least 90%, I wouldn't even think about it.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~mid-late content — Cost-benefit analysis of Stern's new bushings vs expensive Precision Flippers aftermarket kit

  • “It's like tires on cars... the bushing is the thing that controls the whole flipper. So in my mind, you know, this is great news that's going on.”

    Neil McRae @ ~late content — Validates importance of flipper bushing upgrades as foundational component quality

  • “You buy a new game and then in 200 plays the coil stops because I mean, that's just bullshit, right?”

    Neil McRae @ ~late content — Consumer frustration with early coil stop failures on new Stern machines

  • “I got my target. My target was a set number of World Championship points. I beat it, I was very happy with that.”

    Neil McRae @ ~early content — Tournament strategy: setting achievable WPPR point targets rather than chasing wins

Entities

Neil McRaepersonScott RundellpersonRiverside Game LabvenueInduseventPinball RepublicvenueTurkey Fry UpeventAndy FosterpersonStern Stranger Things PremiumgameStern Stranger Things LEgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Stranger Things Premium's TK lock mechanism remains problematic despite Stern's ramp shortening attempt; appears to be a cosmetic patch rather than functional fix

    high · Neil McRae: 'I don't think it's any different to mine at home... I think they clearly tried to improve it. I still have the game. I love this. I really like this game. My first change is, look, if they need you to improve it, they better be sending me a new mech.'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern has introduced new glass-filled polymer flipper bushings in Stranger Things Premium, significantly reducing end play from ~50mm to <6mm, improving flipper power and responsiveness

    high · Neil McRae observed new bushings on tournament game; corroborated by Pinside post #19573 with technical measurements; Scott Rundell notes this matches his prediction about bushing-only improvements

  • ?

    product_concern: Coil stops failing within 200 plays on new Stern games; recurring quality control issue affecting multiple titles including Elvira House of Horrors

    high · Neil McRae: 'You buy a new game and then in 200 plays the coil stops... That's just bullshit, right?' Scott reports metal shavings even on lightly-played Elvira

  • ?

    technology_signal: New Stern flipper bushing material (glass-filled polymer) demonstrates significant improvement potential; Precision Flippers comparison shows OEM can achieve 90% of aftermarket performance at lower cost

    high · Scott Rundell: 'If you just simply just say, right, put some new bushings in and get the same kind of result, at least 90%, I wouldn't even think about it [about Precision Flippers]'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.341

0:00
Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. Welcome everybody. It's a new year, a glorious new year here in the UK with some amazing weather. I'm sure the great thing about pinball is when the weather's like this, you've got an excuse to play with the wife. Hey, I'm Neil McRae. I'm my partner in crime. I'm Scott Rundle. How you doing, Neil? Happy New Year to you, my friend. Happy New Year.
0:41
I hear you've been busy with a twilight zone or not. What happened in the end? I've got a bit of work done on it. I mean, like, the cabinet's done.
0:53
I've got to do the back box, but I find it's the weather, it's cold I don't know about you, it's like I don't really like working in the cold I'm not much of a It kind of puts a bit, especially when it's like Just after Christmas, it's like I'll do it eventually, I've got to motivate myself I might do something on it And did you have a good Christmas? I did, yeah, did you? I had a fantastic Christmas Spent a lot of it with my grandkids So we were playing games Generally mucking about. I actually played almost no pinball except for we had a bit of an event at Pinball Republic with the Turkey Fry Up which was a bit of a monster tournament. We had 60 players I think in the end. That's a lot of people. A couple of people who registered and didn't turn up. You know who you are, you evil people.
1:48
Genuinely, if you register and you can't make it and you know you can't make it, just let people know. It's annoying. It's the one thing that really puts me off As someone to manage who's coming and who isn't And then people turn up midway through Oh I was late Sorry well you could have texted me Anyway Andy Foster played brilliantly And he won it We got a huge amount of world championship points Which really made a difference To the year end Scores For a lot of people I played terrible I just couldn't I forgot my headphones and if I don't have my headphones I get too distracted by other noise oh really so you're one of those players that needs to have like to be just completely cancel out the noise around you anything that's like if there's lots of movement or a lot going on even if I've got my headphones I struggle with it does it not feel like you need to hear the game though how does that work the only thing I miss on the game There's one thing I miss on the game Which is the tilt warnings Sure And you know So I've tilted and thought what But no I've got my headphones in And I was You know when I've been to tournaments This is why I try and run As well an organised tournament as I can Because if I go to a tournament and it's not organised There's a lot of messing about And to and fro in, I just can't play, my brain just turns off I just can't play and the headphones helps with that it doesn't cure entirely but it allows me to stay focused and when I've got my headphones on, if I get into the zone I can play really well and actually whilst we're here I was at another tournament so basically I wished my wife a happy new year and then I jumped on a plane to Los Angeles. Forgiving wife, mate, just to do that. Yeah, she's there. I think she's going to lay down the law shortly about what I can and can't do, which is fair enough. I went to LA.

  • Gottlieb classic games like Arena, Rock, and Hoops feature complex modes, multiball, and interactive toppers, contrary to common perception of being basic

    medium confidence · Neil McRae, played multiple Gottlieb games at Indus tournament

  • Flipper fade on long-playing games like Stranger Things, Godzilla, Lord of the Rings, and Turtles would benefit from new Stern bushings

    medium confidence · Neil McRae and Scott Rundell, discussion based on personal experience

    • Stranger Things Pro
    game
    Eden Stanperson
    Josh Sharpperson
    Precision Flippersproduct
    James Reidperson
    Jim Belcintoperson
    Paul M. Freshperson
    Captain's Auction Houseorganization
    Diablo Rushperson
    Gottliebcompany
    Godzillagame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
    Elton Johngame
    Star Trek Premium/LEgame
    Cactus Canyongame

    event_signal: Indus tournament in Los Angeles demonstrated high production quality with diverse game lineup (18 main, 8 high stakes, ~20 classics, 20 match play, 20 B-play); described as operating 'on another level'

    high · Neil McRae: 'Those guys are on another level. They were so good... the tournament was awesome. It actually felt like a really cool vibe.'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Riverside Game Lab in Inland Empire, California operates as multi-genre arcade/pinball venue with video game tournaments (Super Smash Brothers) and pinball events; highly regarded for food/cocktails and machine quality

    high · Neil McRae: 'An amazing venue called Riverside Game Lab... It is a mecca of arcade and pinball... They do amazing food... They generated a special cocktail: Neil and Mike's Baloo cocktail'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Indus using 'target match play classics' format with point system (appears to be 3-2-1 scoring for placement); games tested at pre-tournament before main event to identify problematic machines

    medium · Neil McRae describes playing in 'target match play classics' format and discusses how pre-tournament at Riverside Game Lab was used to 'test the games for the Classics' main tournament

  • ?

    product_concern: Stranger Things Premium's Demodog target mouth was elongated/widened in attempt to improve ease of hitting, but actual skill difficulty appears unchanged or worsened; artwork no longer matches ball position

    high · Neil McRae: 'They've kind of made the Demodog's mouth much more like wider... it didn't make it any easier to hit it... it feels like it's too high and they should have pulled it down a bit'

  • ?

    design_innovation: New Stern flipper bushings enable higher power output, but create unintended side effect of drop targets bouncing off rather than registering when hit with excessive force; requires spring tension tuning

    high · Neil McRae: 'When you hit the drops, oh, they bounce them... The flippers are so much more powerful... And over time that will go away... you can adjust the spring to deal with that'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern not currently selling new flipper bushings as separate parts; likely to enter distribution channels gradually as stock of older components depletes

    medium · Neil McRae: 'I think it's just a matter of time when the parts that folks have got in all the shops have gone... I really hope that you just think they'll naturally feed through the distribution thing'

  • ?

    community_signal: Event organizers and players frustrated with no-show registrations and late arrivals at tournaments; calls for better communication and commitment from participants

    high · Neil McRae: 'A couple of people who registered and didn't turn up... Genuinely, if you register and you can't make it and you know you can't make it, just let people know. It's annoying.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Gottlieb classic games from 1980s-90s era contain complex rule sets, spinners, drop targets, multiball modes, and interactive toppers; contrary to community perception of being simplistic

    medium · Neil McRae played Gottlieb games including Arena, Rock, Hoops, Doodle Bug at Indus; noted they had 'modes, no multiball' and 'interactive toppers back before I even thought that was a thing'

    • 4:02
    It's kind of weird. A British guy running a tournament in LA, so I ran one of the warm-up tournaments for Indisc. Okay. An amazing venue called Riverside Game Lab. If you're ever in the Inland Empire part of California, Visit this place It is a mecca of arcade and pinball They do tournaments Both for pinball and for video games So they have like a massive Nintendo Is that to do like What do they call it Going for the highest score, like game breaking Stuff like that or No, what they do is They do a lot of beat em up stuff So the big game there Oh tournament play for fighting The big game there that they've got as Super Smash Brothers on Switch and I met it's like I want to say they got like 10 booths with about 4 groups of 4 in each booth and you kind of you play and you play and you kind of bubble up to the top group that streamed live and it's just I've seen this a couple of times there now and I so want to play but I'm so rubbish I wouldn't get anywhere But it's such a great vibe So they know every frame of every move So they're able to compete You've got to really know your characters in and out 100% And also the people who run it They do amazing food They do these insanely great hot dogs They do some amazing cocktails In fact they generated a special cocktail Neil and Mike's Baloo cocktail That was out of this world So a big thanks to them Riverside Game Lab The games in there are all Jim Belcino games How long were you there for then? While you were over there? I was there, so I flew in on the Tuesday And I flew, well I was supposed to Fly home on Sunday But I kind of decided to take a detour Via Las Vegas Which we'll talk about in a minute But it was great And the event So Indus Those guys just You know, I feel like I've run a few Good tournaments, those guys are on another level They were so good I helped them set up on the Wednesday I did a little bit On the Tuesday but I was shattered From jet lag This week it just really hit me Partly because of Christmas holidays And not going to bed at a reasonable time Anyway I played In the tournament I actually was really pleased with how I played I didn't get I got my target My target was a set number of world championship points I beat it, I was very happy with that Played in the What do they call it The target match play Classics That was brilliant Up until about 4 o'clock I was in the top 10 and I was playing so well And then 4 o'clock came and the jet lag hit me And honestly It was like I'd never seen a pinball machine again in my life It was absolutely terrible I couldn't hit shit I got spanked by Josh Sharp Which was really annoying On some ancient EM I was going to say What games were you playing in the line up then? So I had a phenomenal game of Nine ball I had a decent game on Actually let me have a look I'll read the wrong ones out But In this mode though You're basically You try not to come last because if you come last you get zero points right I think it's 3-2-1 or is it 4-2-1 I can't remember, I think it's 3-2-1 for this and the competition is so fierce it's insanely fierce and you're trying to let me just see if I can find me on this There we go Right so I played So I was playing well I wasn't winning but I was coming second consistently So and then I won You were terrible You were painting your picture like you were in Dead Last Towards the end I was So I was playing up to game Seven I was doing really well So Atlantis an ODM Two points, Wizard and ODM I was pretty pissed off that I didn't win that But I was playing a guy called Eden Stan And if you've ever watched the Wizard Movie about Robert Gagnon He's one of Robert Gagnon's best buddies In that movie And he's a phenomenal player So I had a big lead on him on Wizard And he bounced back and hammered me I was like, what? I was dancing, I was like, yes, I've won this And he was Player four And the man's on the scene And actually he came second in the overall tournament I think Yeah he did, he came second I then played a great game called Doodle Bug Google it, it's an ODM but it's a lot of fun A really tough game Got second place there Then Cheetah, an old favourite from the club So we got that at the club I was very confident about it Won it Another game in the club How come they always pick on Was this a classics tournament or something? Yeah it was a classics tournament So it's kind of The reason they do it is kind of To test the games for the classics The main classics tournament Because they get hammered And this allows them to kind of flush stuff out So these pins are only going to get older And more and more used Yeah, but they're in I mean honestly some of them are in condition The Cheetah look beautiful, the Future Spal look lovely I then played a Gottlieb game Called Arena I want to talk about their games later But Gottlieb have got like some excellent games on pants games this one is shit, it's all about the skill shot, and if you don't the skill shot gives you a million, if you don't have the skill shot you're dead basically, so it's a bit like TNA where you get a point for each arena each reactor that you win well on the flip side you get a point the million column for each skill shot that you get, so actually I think if it wasn't for the skill show I think I would have come second but I just couldn't hit it, it was annoying I noticed there's a lot to those games, I didn't realise it when I first saw them, I always thought they were going to be really basic, rudimentary, no modes no kind of multi-ball or anything like that, but they do actually have that in there, they do have quotes I was looking at that Bone Crusher game and never heard of it, never seen it in my life and then I thought bloody hell, they were doing interactive toppers back before I even thought that was a thing yeah, absolutely I kind of blame James Reid Who's our From Majestic Pinball And Jim Belcito for getting me into These Golly Ab Games So I played Another Golly Ab game called Rock Actually just before So game 7 I won game 7, Meteor Again another Neil McCrae favourite Stern Classic, anyway it was a great event But then After Meteor I just couldn't hit anything and I got a couple of twos, but mostly zeros and ones, so I was a bit narked. I think if I'd got there a bit earlier, I was a bit more balanced to the times when I might have played better. Anyway, we've come back to Goliath, so I wanted to talk about this. Let's pick it up now. So, yeah, so Rock, it's a great game where you're... It's playing some really cool rock music as you play.
    11:54
    And, again, most Goliath games are about spinners and drop targets. I love spinners, so... Yeah, I do too, to be honest. You try to hit the spinner, hit the spinner. Yeah, that spinner on, like, for instance, on Fear of Magic, you can whack that horseshoe all day. You can really pick up some speed on that. Yeah, and then I played another great game that I'm going to try and get a hold of called Hoops.
    12:18
    Okay. Another Gollyard game. It's got this, again, there's more, it's a relatively simple game, but it's got this thing called hang crime where when you hit the button, and it's all base basketball, Your hang time as you Jump and Grab onto the basket But as you're doing this it creates a special bonus That scores you a lot of points In hang time mode And adds that to the end This was in the main bank It was a hugely fun game And something I definitely want to try and pick up I hear they're very rare So it might do well I used to be It's kind of Only because I've been to a few tournaments where they had these goliath games, and they always flaked out. You know, they never last. And most of them were played not that great. But with James's collection of games, and then Jim Balciot who brought these games to Indisc, they're all really nice.
    13:20
    How many games were there then out of interest? Oh, that's a good question. So there was 18 in the main bank. There was about 8 in the high stakes bank And probably 20 In the main classics banks And then another 20 In the match play And then there was about another 20 B play games that Captain's Auction House brought They've got a pile of new Sterns And Yeah the tournament was awesome It actually felt like a really cool vibe Last year it felt really stress everyone because I think the games were really tough last year I didn't enjoy it at all I'm sorry, I didn't enjoy the bank I found it very difficult, it was this year the bank was great and I was playing I had a kind of group of games that I really enjoyed playing as it turns out it didn't really do me I didn't really do as well as I would have liked to but let me just Yeah, but as you said, if the jet lag was playing into it, then that's okay. Yeah, that's definitely a factor, but I wasn't... I don't know about you, if I feel tired, it's just like your reactions are going to slow down. You're just going to feel like, oh, well, do you know what? It's not my day. And then you just kind of lose the enthusiasm by the hit of the third ball. Yeah, I mean, on this one, I thought it was... I think the jet lag was having so much of an impact as my consistency. But if I just find I'll quickly go through what I was playing And what I was trying to do So again they had a phenomenal bank Pulp Fiction was in the bank Which is the First thing I'll come back to Pulp Fiction Because there's some news on On that game But I was trying to play I was playing a game called X's and O's Which is an old ballet Not one of the older ones It's partly New York, but a ballet classic I mean all these games Played so nice And I was doing alright on that But it was tough Stargazer, a Stern classic One of my favourites, I can really do well on this So I got the top I was top 16 On Stargazer And I can always put a million plus On it So I was really strong James Bond so they had 007 Pro but it was set up I mean actually it was set up they set it up, one thing that was really difficult about it they basically turned up the power of the kind of swamp scoop thing so when it was firing 5 and so on you had to react to it quickly but quite often you were straight down the middle Everyone's banging the side of the thing Before the ball comes out Oh to try and disrupt the momentum Sort of thing Yeah and I think I got a top 30 score on that It was hard, that game was killing people And I really enjoyed playing it Then they had the Stranger Things Premium Which I'll cover a little bit Talk a little bit about that along with Pulp Fiction But they had a brand new Literally taken out of the box Stranger Things Premium. So one of the new games. All I can tell you is that they haven't fixed the TK lock mechanism. I was going to ask if you fixed the telekinesis bit because I'm just thinking that's the part that loves to fail. No, it's... Look, I don't think... On my LE, if you hit a solid shot up, it will always... It's going to be a clean shot. It's going to be a good shot. If it's or there's any kind of... If it rattles, yeah. Yeah, it's not going to get up there, right?
    17:20
    On this game, I didn't think it was any different to mine at home. The one thing, though, is, I mean, they have tried to do something with it, so the ramp that kind of launches it up towards the wall bit of the mech... Oh, yeah. ...is a lot shorter.
    17:37
    So, I don't know if you know, but I kept most in the... It's like a seesaw, right? it's kind of like when it goes yeah and who's the name what's the name of the character is it 90s 11 or something 11 yeah so 11 there's a picture of 11 with our hand out hand holding out in the back box decals yeah and there's like a bit where the ball goes well what they've done is they've moved where that goes so it looks like the balls are on our hand which is a bit so they need to update the artwork oh the artwork's out of place now yeah so they've certainly had a go at trying to improve it but I don't think it's any different Seems like a little bit of a patch job Doesn't it? Doesn't it feel like it's actually addressed it? Yeah, I mean I think I don't know, I think they Clearly tried to improve it I still have the game I love this, I really like this game My first change is, look, if they need you to Improve it, they better be sending me a new mech Do you know what I mean? Because that's kind of an admission that the one that's in there Is a load of old rubbish, but I've seen if they send me a new mech I'd leave it in the coin box, but I'd never fit it because I don't think it's any different. The one big thing, and then also the projector. Right. So it is a different manufacturer projector. It looks very similar. Okay. It's a tiny bit brighter, a tiny bit brighter. So there's a bit extra lumens on it, but nothing special. Nothing amazing. It still is out of alignment, is the one that I've got.
    19:06
    And then the final thing they've done, I couldn't believe this when I saw it I should have taken a picture of it They've kind of They've made the Demodog's mouth Much more Like wider Oh oval shaped or Yeah and it's kind of length wise oval shaped Yeah it's just oval okay And I have to say it didn't make it any easier To hit it I was quite lucky with my one I had a pro but I think it was Paul M Fresh on the forum He'd done some work dialing it in So I don't know if he'd done some height adjustment Or what, but you could As long as you cradled the shot You could get it in there If you found the place on the flipper It would always go in And I don't know how Stern really wanted that game To be at the end of the day Was it going to be something that was pot luck That you could aim for, or was it if it was just down to skill You know, if you landed it right You could bag it in So my game, I mean there is a skill factor to it But if I'm playing between the things and I was actually playing it just before we started on the premium just remind me on the LE does it move it wiggles when you get a ball near it so it doesn't move when you're trying to hit it it's stationary I remember it did move I think even on the pro but I was trying to remember if they added some sort of motor to it a bit like what they did with Star Trek you remember when the Vengeance itself on the pro it didn't really dip down it just kind of flopped while on the premium and the LE It fully went down Sort of thing Yeah so It kind of Vibrates up and down I think the pro does as well But Yeah On my early If I'm playing A three ball game And I start it I'll get maybe One or two shots In the demo dog Pretty consistently I've got it well nailed And I've hit the shot Often enough On this one I didn't Hit a single shot In it A couple of people did So it was definitely possible But I think the way That they've Elongated the mouth Is It's kind of Really elongated It feels like it's too high And they should have pulled it down a bit Is my take But There was one other massive thing About the game Scott And This is going to be I think a talking point For sure The flippers on this game Were the most powerful flippers I have ever used Ever Okay And Standard plastic bats or did they move down to metal or what? Standard plastic bats, but Stern have updated the bushing.
    21:43
    Ah, okay. So you know the bit that... Yeah, yeah, plastic. It's normally a plastic bush that sits between the playfield and the flipper. So the old bushing was kind of made of that kind of, what I call that kind of chewing gum kind of plastic. It's like nylon plastic, right? Yeah, and the new one is, It's made of another material that's kind of like, I'm trying to think what it was like.
    22:09
    PVC? It's a different type of plastic. How do you know that? Did they talk about it to you then, or did you just go digging about? No, well, when I noticed, they had the game up, and I went and had a close look at it to see if there was any other differences. And then I noticed on Pinside They were talking about this And someone posted a photo Of the new The new bushing And I'm just trying to find it whilst we're talking I wonder why they've done that don't you Do you think that's to address Flipper Fade Absolutely that's 100% Do Stranger Things suffer from Flipper Fade though I don't think I ever It does Maybe I should crap to get to that point On a long game it does But there's one downside to it though The flippers are so much powerful When you hit the drops Oh they bounce them Do you know that's the biggest issue I've always found Even like we'll talk about in a bit with Cactus Canyon If you hit that ball fast enough Against one of the targets that pop up from the playfield It doesn't register the shot It just bounces it straight off Yeah and it's annoying And over time that will go away And again this is a brand new game out of the box So You know it's kind of Irritating But again another thing is You can adjust the spring to deal with that as well So Trust me my first game was Star Trek and that dropped target I had plenty of experience Messing around that bloody string Getting the spring even to get the Tension right Too little and the vibration would like cause it to drop by itself too much and you'd never get it to drop it was a right nightmare yeah I mean the interesting thing is though I don't know if you remember but we talked about precision flippers yeah and one of the bold statements I made was that if you just used the what was it called The bushing. The bushing, sorry. That would give you enough improvement, you didn't need the rest of it. And here we go. Yeah, I've said it on the forum to the guys, because there were a lot of people asking about my thoughts on precision flippers, because I've added a bit of an issue with mine. I got it for Rick and Moy because it needs it. I think that bloody left ramp is impossible to hit with the stock flippers as they were. And at the time, obviously, they won't sell the bushing as a separate set. They'd only sell it with the bat. but when you get the set from Precision Flippers the issue I find at least is because it's all milled metal everything is metal the bat, the shaft, the bushing, everything and because it's like even you get the linkage that clasps around the shaft to grip the bat so to speak the shaft of the bat because it's so smooth and it's so strong I was finding that in instances where I had the original flipper pulls and stuff like that from the game, the clasp wasn't strong enough to bite into the metals. So what would happen is, after a while, because it was so much power going through the bat, it would break loose. And then you'd end up with the flipper going off alignment. So, I think, like, if you're saying what's true, like, you know, just simply adding a bushing gets you kind of similar results, I'd say go for it, because the money you have to spend to get precision flippers in, if you include as well, they've got a link shaft mod that they sell separately, which is like a keyed shape so that it can't physically move around in the shaft. It's actually locked in like a square. That's a lot of money to be forking down for some flipper bats. I'm telling you now, if I could just simply just say, right, put some new bushings in and get the same kind of result, at least 90%, I wouldn't even think about it. You're right, that would Completely changed my mind on Going down the whole precision fifth of route Yeah and honestly after having Played this game I'd love to have these Booshings on Godzilla Do you think they'll sell them as a separate I think it's just a matter of time When the Parts that folks have got In all the Shops have gone I really hope that You just think they'll naturally feed through The distribution thing And because honestly The difference that this made I was even If they can do that though I hope to god they can fix the call stops Because their call stops are terrible I'll be honest with you that's the hilarious thing About this is they've done this Which I predict Will only accelerate That's what I was thinking I was getting metal shavings even on my Elvira House of Horrors And I barely put 100 plays on it And before I shipped it out I switched out the call stops Because I was like, they aren't going to last They're going to break Yeah, so, I mean, I'm hoping That They do come out For other games I'm trying to find a thread There's a couple of games that would need it, right? Godzilla seems to slither a lot from Flipper Fade Lord of the Rings did Yeah, Godzilla would need it And Turtles I think would be good for it Any long playing game, frankly It's kind of weird, isn't it? Sterner doing a bit of Flipper adjustments after Elton John and that, you know, saying, look, we've got new flippers now. Maybe they'll try to up their game a bit more. Well, I think at least, you know, look, there's nothing worse than you know, you buy a new game. Yeah, you buy a new game and then in 200 plays the call stops because, I mean, that's just bullshit, right? It's annoying. Yeah, it is. I mean, for most people, like you and I, it's probably not too much of a hassle to change out a stop, but most people won't probably even have the tools that buy a pinball machine they'll just have to wait for someone in to come down and service it and I don't even know how distributes handle coal stops failing that early on did they even cover it under warranty probably distributor I would include some in the box because it is Along with a what do you call it Allen key
    28:33
    So basically, yeah, so I found a picture. If you look on Pinside, folks, the Stranger Things Club, and I'll post this picture on our Facebook page, But it's post number 19573, a guy called Diablo Rush. Thanks, Diablo, for sharing this. But what you see is the old one and the new one. And the old one is made of nylon, right?
    29:02
    And the new one is considerably less slop. And they're made of what looks like what he claims is a kind of glass-filled polymer. and when you see it you'll know exactly what you mean by that but also when you look at it holy shit it looks a hundred times better because that's the thing as well if you stick those under a microscope you're going to see the imperfections punching through you might not think there's much friction in those old bushings but I guarantee you they're probably pretty choppy underneath a microscope you'll see a lot of reason why you're losing a lot of power yeah and he thinks he's done a little bit of maths on this and compared to the profusion flips he thinks that he talks about 50 mils of end play I'm assuming he means millimetres precision flip is less than a millimetre and these new ones from Stern are less than 6 millimetres so that's a I mean, that's a massive improvement.
    30:14
    And basically, here's the great thing. There's no slop. It means more power and less quality. And so this is definitely going to make a huge difference. Yeah. The only thing I should say, it will have a backwards effect on top targets and stuff like that. But, you know, again, it's one of those things where, you know, But even, you know, something like that, you kind of have to tune things a little bit. Yeah.
    30:42
    And this is one thing where, you know, yeah, you'll have to tune it a little bit. At least, thankfully, with sterns you can, right? I mean, that's the nice thing about modern machines. It's like, I was one guy asking me on the forum, you know, should I get a set of precision flippers for my Bally Williams? And I was like, I wouldn't because you'll have so much power down them, the only way to adjust the coil strength will be to adjust to a lower powered coil, which is a lot more work, and I'll be honest with you, I quite like the way a Bally Williams plays anyway, it's got the right level, it's not like a Stern, but then I don't want it to be like a Stern. No, exactly. It doesn't need to be like a Stern, it's a different era, a different set of games, but what I can tell you is that I think, like the games that Indus was set up hard, so you couldn't backhand the left ramp. I can't backhand the left ramp on my game at home unless the ball's in motion.
    31:38
    But I think with these new bushings, you've got to backhand. No, because I used to do that a lot. If I was a bit panicked near the end and I was on total isolation, for instance, which was the halfway point mini wizard mode, sometimes you had to make that left ramp. And I don't know about you, I'm not the most accurate at hitting that ramp. If you missed it And you hit the sides you would drown Yeah I mean Actually on the pro you can backhand it Historically the premium LE You've never really been able to Backhand it Why couldn't you backhand it on the LE then? Because the top of the ramp Where the TK lock is Needs a bit more power To get up it And you get rejects And that's part of the reason why people moan about it You know And also the fact that it's not the best mecca there, but it's a big contributor to it and my take is you don't really need to backhand it, and it's kind of good that you don't because it makes it quite easy so in my mind it's a case of finding the right balance but I'm sure that, and actually what's being recommended on that thread on Pinside is that you turn the power down because I'm now too powerful basically so it is it's great to see Stern doing something like that I'm always going to encourage improvements, absolutely yeah and of course this is you know as long as they don't add another £500 to the bill of materials well that is the big problem but Scott it's like tires on cars, like you're a car not like I am, right? And you see the car guys especially the high end you know, I've got an M3, you've got a Type R you see those guys definitely testing tires to get the most out of the car to get the handling out of the car and the rubber, it's the bit that touches the road, in this case the bushing is the thing that controls the whole flipper so in my mind You know, this is great news That's going on looking at this Because, you know They've kind of gotten away Perhaps not, but they've kind of gotten away By doing nothing, now they've done something And holy shit, what a difference it makes It's insane It just kind of shows, I suppose, at the end of the day If you cut corners At the production line It can cause problems with the quality Do you know what I mean? It goes back to what we were saying about the cold stops I'd like them to address that as a priority, personally. I mean, the games are getting more and more expensive and it surely can't cost that much more in the bill of materials. It's probably a dollar.
    34:33
    And also, I'll tell you something, right, that I've said before. I haven't, on my games at home, I have not had the coil stock ping that others get.
    34:48
    Because everyone's got coil stock and I'm like, what? I have to wonder if they've got a box of coil stops for LEs and a box of stops for Yeah, because I was going to say well, yeah, no well, for premium at least on the Elvira I did experience it and as I said, they only put 100 games on it and I was crap at it, so maybe they do it for LEs I don't know, but then that's a bit dodgy it's like, given the cost of it It's nuts and the thing is it's like buying a new car you get it at home and you've got to start it and it doesn't start you want to play and you can't play and it's such a negative the first two weeks of buying something is so crucial to your overall satisfaction if you get a shit show it doesn't matter what you're buying if it's crap within the first two weeks or it's dead you open it up and it's dead You know, you've got a fucking LCD problem, which we'll talk about. We'll talk about that a bit, yeah. You know, it's such a negative thing. Okay, you're going to get it fixed. The LCD thing, maybe fits into a slightly different character, but knowing that you've got this £1 fucking 50 park, right, that kills the game entirely. Not just for you. Oh, yeah, you wouldn't be able to play it, yeah. Yeah, but not just you as a user at home, but on location. You've got a game to make money It's your business You put the game in and then you have to go back Three weeks later I've seen a lot of people on Pinsider They just say the first thing I do when I unpack it Is they change the stops So I have seen the coil stop issue At the club where we've got more premium pro games So I do that as well now I've got a big bag of them That's all I've got I literally have a bag of them It's the same thing with most of my collections I have multiple consumables Yeah You have to You know Rubbers And balls And Freaking Call stops For call stops You should be able to get You know 10 times It should last a good Year at least right For home use especially Home use You should never go Frankly True Unless you're An unemployed bum So you play The whole freaking day To be fair When I've pulled out Old Bally Williams games And they've never Touched the stops Most of them Have just got a little bit Of mushrooming But they've never collapsed. Do you know what I mean? They just hammered the metal down and it's kind of created a wear spot, which, let's face it, creates a bit of sloppiness sometimes in the shots. My quicksilver, which Keith from New Forest Pinball is currently doing the playfield again. Shout out to Keith.
    37:34
    He took the slings out and when he unscrewed them, they literally, the metal literally went and fractured and never been moved. So the game was like a 1981 game, I think.
    37:52
    It had never been No one had ever touched it. And he literally unscrewed it and the whole thing just kind of disintegrated. It just disintegrated. I loved it. He was like holding it together and it was like It's like Atlas holding up the world. Yeah, it was kind of weird. He sent me a photo of this and I was like, what the hell happened to that? And he literally ended up screwing it and it fell apart. Wow The game still played okay That's what's ridiculous about it The ball was in it and it wasn't like it was shit It was still bouncing off It's been replaced since But it just shows you that Some of these games, especially the older ones They're built like tanks And you see the new games Coming off the line Not just from Stern but from across the board And they just take stupid things You know that they cut costs on.
    38:48
    And they might have saved a dollar, but they then generate tens of dollars worth of annoyance points for the consumer. It just makes no sense to me at all, basically. Let's move on. But yeah, Indus was great. The Stranger Things was a lot of fun to play. I've got a decent score on that. I've got a decent score on a couple of other games. But the format there is It's called card You've got to put five good games on one card And then you submit it I've got five great games On five different cards I just couldn't But I met up with a lot of Great folks there Had a few beers and whiskies With Mr. L and himself It was good to catch up with him Travis And Did you tell him that it's an upset that the Jaws doesn't eat the ball. I didn't mention the Jaws. And the memes that are coming out on that, it just makes me laugh. I mentioned to someone else, oh yeah, I'm playing the Keith, and they're like, ask Keith this. I was like, I am not fucking asking Keith anything to do with these games. It's just not. It's like, I just, I don't get them into it. It's not your place to, is it, really? You can give your opinion on a forum, but any person, he probably doesn't want to talk about work. You know, when's the next release of Junos coming out for the stuff that I work on what?
    40:14
    I don't get that mentality and like if he brings it up absolutely you can ask him a question he's there to just talk to you about how things are and how his life is, I think that's probably how you leave it really I was chatting to him years ago at Pimberg about Jurassic Park and I happened to notice that they'd used pink flippers on the premium and black flippers on the rubbers on the pro. Oh, the rubbers, okay. Yeah, I said, what's the reason for the rubbers? He said, I just made the game just a little bit more challenging, and he said actually we're thinking about putting the pink rubbers on the pro, what do you think? I was like, no, it's hard enough as it is. I was going to say, it goes back to, I think me and you talked about this before, maybe I've come over, we were obviously discussing with, maybe it was Anne, we were talking about how games recently being released are very tournament-focused. They feel like they need to be very deep rule sets, very complicated, hard shots, test your mettle sort of thing, fast and furious. You only have to look at, like, Foo Fighters, you know, again, very fast, very furious. I feel like Venom, same kind of thing. Maybe they need to kind of get back to the everyman game. I felt Stranger Things was kind of like that, To be honest, it's like the everyman game Simple fan layout, very easy to get To grips with, I feel like Cactus Canyon Has got very similar kind of code to it If I'm honest Yeah, I mean I would say I mean, and actually this is one thing I chatted to Keith about He doesn't build Games for tournaments He doesn't does he, okay His And if you Listen to podcasts he says this Quite often you know, he is building a story within a game and you know, if you're doing Jurassic Park as a story or you're doing Avengers AIQ as a story or Godzilla or Jaws and Iron Maiden which is slightly different because it's not really a story thing, although they've kind of taken their music and made a story out of it, he's very much you know, the game is a story and that means the game's going to Play long Which tournament players Tournament old runners Don't want You don't want games That play long Because you're there Until four in the morning Trying to finish a tournament Well For me It's just like Maybe it's not Tournament focused That I mean then I think that For me It's like I don't want a game To be turning into Something like Chopping wood Like Absolutely And actually I mean look at Lord of the Rings It's like Where's it Falunel and that I don't want to be Spending 45 minutes To complete it Like, it's just too much. But look, you know, I've had games on Godzilla that are easily 40 minutes long. And you're not going to... Yeah, I bet you are. I'll play one long... If I have a really good game of Godzilla, at the end of it, I'm turning it off. It's rare that I go and have another game. I was going to say, this is the thing, right? Because, all right, the easiest thing I could do is give you a comparison, right? If you talk modern gaming, look at Fortnite. Yeah. are you going to play a 40 minute battle royale game? No the reason why no you're not, you're not going to sit there for 40 minutes in one game no, it doesn't let you exactly, because the circle will keep pushing you to the point where you're down to forcibly, what a 15 minute game to me, that is the golden kind of timer again, 15 minutes, good I'm happy with that, if I want to play another 15 minutes I can, but I don't want to sit there for 40 minutes on a free-throw game. Yeah. But it's too much. You've hit a real nerve right now that's going through the tournament community. So the same with chess, right? Right. Chess is time now, because you'd have these scenarios where people would think about the move for, like, hours before making it. Yeah. And now there's a limit. You've got to make your move, you know, the clock. Stop the clock, yeah, yeah. In fact, they have turbo chess or speed chess where you've got to move super quick, right? And candidly, tournament pinball is suffering from some, well, suffering, it's a funny way of putting it, is we're blessed right now with an amazing set of players that can just turn any game into a massive blow-up. And it is, so in an Indus, this happened a few times, there was a massive game on Diner that was just, I mean, I think Diner's one of the most boring Snorts games ever made This game was freaking exciting Because these players, Zach McCarthy In particular, Tim Sexton also And Arvid Actually They changed the game of how you play Diner And it was super exciting But it went on for a long time And Diner is no I wouldn't call it an easy game It's got challenges But this is one of the things And this happened at the UK Open where you have these big games by these big players. Even though you've tried to make the game hard as shit, you're trying to make it really tough, you turn off ball saves, you make it hard, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you break the pitch. You still get an hour and a half of Star Wars, right? And that happened at UK Open. It put us well behind our timetable. And it occurred to me that I believe in the future, right? And they'll be like, lots of people posted on YouTube saying, Neil, you're talking rubbish. That's fine, right? I believe in the future, in tournament pinball, there will be a pair of ball length timer. I believe it, right? Okay, they'll put, like, a maximum game time on one ball. Yeah, so you'll get, let's make it up, you'll get five minutes per ball, right?
    46:23
    They could initiate that in the game code quite easily, couldn't they? They could enforce the flippers just to go dead. it would be simple to do right and actually I'm tempted to run an event not with it in the game code but have a clock where it goes you have to take your hands off right I'm very tempted to do it because they did a little bit on Mandalorian didn't they with the flipper fatigue with the hero mode or whatever it was you can't cradle trap up yeah so and I think that was that's kind of what put me onto this idea but I really want to run a tournament where you've got a mechanism whereby your maximum game time is 15 minutes. I think it would make things more interesting. I mean, look, I'm not a tournament player and I don't profess to ever be an expert on the subject, but I think for me to watch anything as what we would... I don't know, would you define this as an eSport? I suppose you could. Yeah, sure. Yeah, so if you define this as an eSport, I look at anything else out there and everything else is trying to work to a similar kind of time frame model.
    47:26
    I mean, even normal sports, you know, like Formula One, it's got a time limit because if there's rain, the race starts and, you know, you've got something like 75 laps. But if you get 75 laps or two hours, whichever happens first, right?
    47:49
    I think that's the thing, right? You're right. I think this does nail it on the head. You don't want games. No one wants to watch Sometimes you watch these recordings I forget who does the recordings He does a load of them I see them on YouTube all the time But you look at the timestamp And you're like, dear God, that's like two free hours I'm not watching that I'm going to watch highlights if I have to then To get to the good bits To also add accessibility in there How do we cope with players With disabilities There's another way Of helping them I'm not saying tomorrow... You can't do it for everything, right? I mean, they could do a bit like you said, like the whole turbo chess thing. Maybe there's room for a new kind of tournament play that is a bit more frantic like this, that puts you under time pressure. And I might, you know, if, Lou, if Pimble Mindfisher, you're out there and you want to help me with this, I would love to get code for three games that limit you to five minutes a ball, right? I mean, I would love to be able to play for five minutes. You know I would really like You know UK open next year I might try And have like the time limited trial Interesting to see tell you I think people might Actually want to try it out And just test it That is I've kind of lost my train of thought But yeah look Indus was awesome Some great pinball You know we got And then the other thing actually about Indus I'll quickly touch on it Pulp Fiction was in the bank and so let me just qualify how unfortunately we're going to have two sides to this coin but I'm going to be I am rolling up the flag for CGC reliability right and I know there's a story we're going to tell this kind of challenges a little bit but let me have my minute of glory this game called Pulp Fiction arrived, they set it up they made it, they kind of polished it so it's super fast super difficult it played from the start of the tournament to the end of the tournament and needed no work at all nice brand new game from a kind of new designer built by CDC it just played and played and played and when you go on it I've played it quite a few times Partly because I thought I could get a score on it Which turned out to be To be not true but I felt the flippers felt Were there code updates for it? Do you feel like it was different since you last played it? They definitely put some code updates On it to Balance the scores a little bit So there was Definitely a code update For that actually Josh I was talking to Josh Afterwards and He Having seen how people are playing the game And the top players frankly He's probably going to put a few more Code changes in to balance The score a bit better But if you look at If you go onto IE Pinball you'll see a couple of big games Of Pulp Fiction There was one really big one that was great to watch I watched Eric Stone Get I think he put 8 million on it And by getting He completed a mode And what's clear is if you complete a mode And you've got the playfield X There's big points on it But the game played beautiful It was great to have it there Lots of people excited about it And let's go on Let's take that And also The bit of news I've got to share And you might have seen this I posted this on Pinside Josh told me that the first Production game Shifted this week Okay, for pulp, great So, Scott, our prediction So another two and a half years I don't know, but I have won The first prediction, I said February Right? You said in the March I can't remember what you said It was about March, I think I said March, yeah So I've won the prediction So far I'm hoping that's a good omen For when our games arrive And they are And the game will be at EAG So there's two going to the UK One is going to Namco Who of course Are big Play mechanics Namco play quite a big role In these amusement Industry still so it's good So they are supposedly Getting one Someone told me that they're not going to have one But I don't believe that's the case We'll see maybe they won't but there's definitely one on the way to them. The other one's on the way to Phil, so Phil's going to have a stand, Pinball Heaven, and he will have Pulp Fiction on the stand.
    52:49
    Oh, is he at the trade show next week, is he? Yeah, next week. So we were talking to Jan, next week the trade show. I actually won't be there because I've got to head somewhere for work, so I'm not going to make it to EUG, which is part of the reason why I went. It's a shame, actually, because I know it's a trade show event. I suppose as long as you can find an excuse to get down there It'd be nice to try it right Well I would recommend everyone to go there And I'll tell you why At EAG Elton John will be there Pulp Fiction will be there Venom will be there And But you'll need some sort of trade pass won't you Oh any bozo can get in Oh really They don't police it at all So if you just buy a ticket You can get in basically I mean it's a pants show Frankly But the fact that it's got Jaws there That's pretty cool So you're going to have three of the latest games Jaws Venom I have a feeling Phil might take a Queen there As well Because I think he had one kicking around I think he might have I'm not 100% sure Because the one he bonded He bonded it back for the show Which he came and collected He's got quite a big Floor then Last time he did this show I think he had a space for 12 games But let me tell you It's worth the visit to play Elton John and Jaws I'll come on to Jaws Momentarily Because I haven't played it But I would certainly say go check it out and if you can get to the show it's East London it's Excel just go on the website I think you just turn up and pay but I would recommend you go on the website yeah or something again I can't remember but it's not expensive it might even be free I think you just have to you know make yourself CEO of gaming in Salford or something you know and I've never had any agro getting in there And The use of popcorn machines We can grab some free popcorn Nice Moving on to Cactus Canyon Yes The cactus has arrived Finally Scott's cactus canyon arrived this week Mine's arrived I got quite lucky I got mine early But at the same time I got quite unlucky That mine's got a fault I can't believe He was picking me up And he was like, you can't go wrong, they're bulletproof And I'm like, well obviously Mine's had too many shots from the gunslinger Because it's got a problem I feel bad So I would have bet the farm That your game would be fine out of the box I genuinely would have Actually they've probably got a dodgy L2D Display which Yeah, I mean it's weird we've narrowed it down to something really strange like you can reproduce the issue by hitting both clippers at the same time and then the display goes dead, loses signal the game carries on playing fine but the power signal just dies completely to the display and then it reboots and you can see it comes back you know when you get the tool tip to say it's an acquired resolution at blah blah blah hertz, that comes up at the top right corner and then the screen kicks back into life and just prior to doing that it flickers So it does feel like it's just a bit temperamental. And I thought first of all it was vibration-led, so I was trying to track it down that way. But it does it like, it gets progressively worse, that's the weird thing. When it starts off, it's not doing it, and then as the game's played longer, it gets worse. And then even it starts doing it as soon as you just even hit F See I think it might be somewhere on the power board or something Yeah it does sound like power It really does But I mean like you know CGC came back to me after two days of submission I was a little bit worried at one point because I was thinking their support desk isn't really obvious to get access to.
    57:05
    To be fair, I probably should have just gone straight through from Phil, but I thought, actually, do you know what? I know what the problem is. No, I think CGC prefer you to do direct on folks. I did figure they did. Yeah. same with Pinball Brothers because I had a similar relationship with them when I had the Alien but like yeah I just gave them the videos I said no not a problem I'll send you a new panel just hopefully it won't take forever to arrive it's what you said about like you know when you get a game and you get a problem with it the problem with me you know I always restore games and I like a game to work perfectly so having a new in box game and knowing the faults there it just makes my eyes roll back every time I see it flick off and I'm like for fuck's sake I just got 10 grand on this and it's got problems I tried my old bond behind me You know someone played Basketball with it before it got delivered Oh yeah I remember yeah the picture Horrific That pissed me off I mean I kind of I knew you know I buy a lot of games right And I'm lucky to be able to do that But I knew at some point in time The best game in the box Was going to come And actually I was reading a thread on, there was a guy who wanted to buy a new Stranger Things on the Pinside thread, and he said, I don't want to do it because I've had four new in-box games, and two of them have arrived in bits, because FedEx just delivered them. So, when I think of that ratio, you know, so I've got almost 20 new games in a year. If 10 of them had turned up, you know... I think our careers are pretty good, though. I mean, you've got Hadfields. The guy... Yeah. That guy, to be honest with you, mate, he was you could tell he had a long day like I spoke to him and it was like they said oh yeah we'll do delivery on Tuesday for you and it got to like 4 o'clock and I was like is he still coming oh yeah I'll give you a call when he's coming and he got here at 20 past 5 so he had a long day because he was out crack of dawn and then he said to me he's got more deliveries to do so what he's got to do is he's got to stop off at a service station sleep in the van and finish off the deliveries the next day so they said to me they've got multiple deliveries going out across the UK. So credit to them. They're working their hats off trying to do it. The longest in the floor driver. Yeah, honestly, not something I would want to do. That's when I'm thankful for an office job, mate. Yeah. I mean, Luke, the guy delivered mine. So I had a bit of a panic.
    59:28
    I get an email. I was still in the US. I get an email saying, hey, we're delivering your Cactus Canyon tomorrow. By the time I noticed the email, I'd missed UK opening hours. Ah, right. It was literally They bailed me on Tuesday At a time or Wednesday Whenever it was and I was already in bed And then the next day I see her And it's like ahhh But that was the day they were deliberate So I phoned them and said hey Luke I'm not home And like Mandy was there about I'm asking her to deal with us A pinball delivery The boxes are massive They do take a lot of space She's on calls and she hates She's humble enough without me adding to her misery. But I think the guy phoned me and said, look, I'm not there. Normally I am. I'm going to ask for a favour.
    60:23
    I've got this side shed on the side of my house. I've got Mandy to clear the space. So all you have to do is open the door, put it in there, shut the door, and you're done. And he said, oh, I need to check with the office. So he checked with the office. They were cool with that. I said, yes, fine. And I'm still signed for it So this guy wheeled me I should get the video out from my cameras I was watching Lachs doing it on my cameras This poor guy wheeled it up my driveway Which is It's not super speed It's got a little incline on it And he's wheeling it up And he's clearly knackered He sticks it in the thing Goes back and gets the topper Because it's in a different box That's right, separate box And gets the signature and goes on So look, a huge thanks to Haskell That topper, by the way, phenomenal. Yeah, it's great. It is hands down the best topper I've ever seen. Like, the quality and the fact, I don't know if you've played the mode, but it's so good. It's so good. It's like Indiana Jones, the video mode where you're shooting people in the bar. Yeah, yeah. Just like that. And it's not obvious to get to, so anybody who gets their characters coming and thinking, what do you want about video mode? There's a video mode, and it's tied to the topper. just all you've got to do is keep hitting the beer keg, it's like that it's a bit like the gargoyle target on keep hitting that about 10 times you'll get to it, it's really good awesome, awesome so yeah, it's great that they've arrived I mean it's been way too long I've not done CCC I'll be honest with you I'm at a position now where unless the theme is killer, I'm just going to wait for it to show on the shore before I part with money. Yeah, I don't blame you.
    62:07
    This has been a painful thing, I think, for everyone. The great news is, because we waited, we've got the latest version of the game, because they have made changes en route. I was going to say, did they update the code? Because I couldn't see any updates for it. Initially, I thought, oh, is my issue a code update or something? Yeah, I don't think... There was a code update, but I think they'll have put the latest code on. Did you ask them if they're going to do the Lime and Sheets code? Is that happening still? I haven't mentioned it to Josh, but I spoke to Josh about it. I think I said this in the last call. He has determined that that code gets out, and he's working on it. It's slow, but it is going to come one day.
    62:52
    Because that is probably the one thing I've noticed, that even a pleb like me can actually do quite good. I mean, I did like $130 million on it. just as I, like, before we came on, I was like, oh, damn. I nearly got to the, like, I finished the, I don't want to give too many spoilers, because people want to enjoy this game and they haven't experienced it, but I think what I would call, what I would call the mini-Wizard mode, I smashed past that, and I was well onto the last bit. I had everything almost lit on the playfield, so I was like, I was probably one shot off, I think, from finishing all of it. The Wizard mode, so you talk about new code, there is code added for the Wizard mode, because that wasn't in the original game. Ah, okay. So, there is new stuff. That's right, because that's why they did the Cactus Canyon Continues code. Yeah. That's right. And they never finished the code. So, CDC spoke to the original coder and said, what was your plan? You told them the plan, they implemented it. And then, the alignment is doing a completely new code, right? I was going to say, because that game, it's got surprisingly quite a lot underneath the hood in it. I think my only criticism with all of it, you lift the hood up, and it's a humongous PCB that's driving all the LEDs. Yeah. And I'm like, if that one part fails, you've got an expensive replacement on your hands. So you have hit the CGC magic button. So if I had a button, I'm trying to see if I can make this happen.
    64:22
    You've hit the button. so when they brought out Medieval Madness and they lifted up Medieval Madness they had this huge board right Fiorori around this huge board was intense on Pinside but if you go back to Pinside and look at the Medieval Madness thread you will see the most pedantic bullshit I've ever seen in my life around the size of this board, right?
    65:02
    And let me tell you, My Men Eagle Madness, made in 2000, I think the end of 2015. It's in fate now, but yeah, go on. And actually, it's the game that goes to our good friend Timbo Live, Tim up in the north.
    65:22
    When I die, he gets this game. It's in my will. This game, and part of the reason that he gets this game is to prove this point, that this board is... It's still holding up. The only reason I question it is because when I got my Star Trek Premium, my first pin, I had board failures on the LEDs. One was out. And you know, because they're like RGB, so underneath the playfield, these inserts, it lights different colours for the different modes, So depending on what part of the, you know, safety enterprise, whatever it is, you know, it would go a different color like green, red or blue. And what I hadn't realized was, is that the LEDs were dead in certain areas. So I ended up having to replace these light boards across the entire play field. Now, it was obviously because the guy had left it in a garage and it got super damp and probably just got corroded. But my point stands is that that was on separate little parts. Yes if it's living in a nice climate controlled room Like you've got but I'm more worried about The general I don't know Guy that loves to store stuff in his bloody Garage at the back of his shed Yeah If you store pinballs in that location You're asking for trouble first of all Oh 100% you are I know a few people that Where they've got their games are in a garage And it's not as warm as it should be You're going to have problems folks The second thing is, look, these boards, first of all, they thought of the fact that the LEDs might go. So actually each insert has got more than one LED. And when one goes, the other two come. Ah, okay, so what resilience he built in. So there is some. Look, is it totally, you know... Have they said how much one of those would cost to replace? Yes. It's a few hundred quid. Oh, that's not bad then. I was thinking you were going to say something like a grand. No, I think there was one that was up for sale on Someone had bought for like $350-$400 I want to say I might be wrong on that You can probably find that out on Progressive's website But look The beauty of this thing is Everything runs off of it Honestly Monster Bash Attack from Mars Medieval Madness You know all these games Because they've got this board And actually Ryan at TPF a few years ago said that they had two or three failures in total.
    67:55
    And they were partly related to people trying to do stuff with mods that they shouldn't have been trying to do. I did notice there were warnings on the playfield that said do not solder near this. If we see solder damage, you'll voice your warranty. Exactly. So you can just imagine some half-chimp bozo soldering on like a cowboy boot that lights up in the dark or some shit like that, right? Or a horse that when you're mid-game fucking falls off and ruins your game, right? Go buy mods from Stumbler that are much more well-put-to-up. We'll talk about his stuff soon, yeah.
    68:34
    But look, that board I just don't believe is an issue. Okay. Do you know what? That's good to know. I believe that I'll probably get like 20 people. You'll have to let me, by the way, know if you get a problem with your pop bumper area on your cactus, because I did. So there's a, in the bottom corner of the right jet or right popper, whatever world you come from, they call it different things. Yeah. There's a metal recess area where the ball's supposed to travel down. But I find it's a little bit like Star Trek. You know that jet gets caught at the top sometimes? Yeah. It's got a similar problem for me. The ball kept getting trapped there. Yeah, okay. So I had to put just a little bit of, like, what I call the equivalent of memory foam, but it's a bit like, the easiest way to call it is beer seal, the stuff that you get on lock bars. Just a little bit of that, that was enough to make sure the ball just wouldn't get trapped there, because a couple of times I was having to kind of give it a bit of a gentle nudge and that would seal it. Did it not land on the switch then to activate the pop bumper? No, see, that's the weird part. It's away from the pop bumper. it's landing in a little bit of a like I want to call it metal guide area basically just it's kind of snugging itself into that corner it's like an L shaped kind of like bit of metal and it's fitting into that area when the ball kind of relaxes down there naturally it's supposed to roll off and then fall out into the back into the main part of the playfield but it was just in my situation at least it was sitting there I couldn't see anybody talking about it on the pin side so I don't know if it was just bad luck on my part it could be me levelling or something I don't know it could be just how they positioned the guide as well maybe I could have maybe manipulated the metal a little bit because you know what it's like with the metal when they put it down sometimes they use like a hex wood screw in that you can always do a little bit of play with the metal to make it a little bit less stringent or a little bit more relaxed sort of thing so I'm going to set mine up tomorrow I might stream the unboxing and see how I feel about it. Just be careful with the topper.
    70:47
    Drop mine. If I were you, if you can possibly get someone else to help you fit it, because the way the wiring goes in, they basically put a little recess at the top of the back box to feed the wire in, but the topper's pretty heavy and you don't want to crush the wires as you're trying to feed it in. So what you end up having to do is tilt the topper while you're feeding the wire in and I nearly tilts it a little bit too far if you see what I'm saying yeah no I mean they're all pretty hefty toppers it's a really heavy topper actually but it's quality Mandy's helped me with all of them so I'll get her to maybe help me or otherwise you'll have a recording of you dropping it probably now we created the fucker and you fucked it up no the no we'll I'll definitely get the game off now it's super simple to set up as well that's the one thing I think people do right when they do toppers it's a simple plug and play aspect they've prepped it all ready to go it's literally three wires and you're done one ethernet cable, one power cable and I can't remember what the other one was but it's super simple 100% I'm looking forward to playing it it's a fun game, a family favourite as well, my wife liked Cactus Canyon when we played it you mentioned Lime and Sheets let's just interject at this point I wanted to mention it so it's kind of anniversary of Lyman's passing and you know I actually found out this last week I gave Penny who is Lyman's partner a lift to the airport and she chuckled Because I had an M3 On loan from BMW For the week Thank you BMW Are they not big BMW fans in the US then? They are It's big but Benny said to me, oh Lyman had an M3 And I was like really? I didn't know that about him He had an E46 M3 Which is undoubtedly One of the best Of the M3 line He also had a Corvette, so he was a big car guy. I actually didn't know that about him.
    73:12
    And it was great to hear more about him. And great to talk to Penny, who's been in pinball forever, basically. She's an awesome lady.
    73:24
    And, you know, it's kind of weird because in scenarios like that, I'm rubbish at knowing what to say. Usually I can mouth anything, right? A friend of mine at work lost her baby while she was pregnant, and I was dreading seeing her.
    73:55
    And I said to her, honestly, I don't know what to say. And she really appreciated me because she felt like people were kind of avoiding her. And they were because they didn't know what to say And it's You know I I've come to learn that Just saying that you don't know what to say is actually Is enough Yeah no trust me Coming from someone who's had something similar It is The best way to do it So you know Apparently She was on the flight of LAX And I was so She was waiting for Josh To give her a lift but Josh was doing well And she was nervous that he might If he stayed well in the finals He might skip and get on the next flight So anyway I gave her a lift And actually Stern have done a Top notch thing This at the moment If you play Elvira on Insider Connected And you score I think more than 220 million You will get a Lyman Sheets Award So I'd encourage everyone to do that Unfortunately there's not many Elviras Out on location to play So Which is a bit of a downside So I'm trying to get them I've been pinging George Gomez To also add it to Batman Which is another Lime and Sheets game and there's more of them around That makes sense So If you have got Insider Connected And you have got Elvira Please give it a go, win that And It's a great way of Remembering a very special person in our I was going to say, the all-time coach, great, let's face it 100% and someone who inspired me a lot in pinball and in thinking so, anyway, go do that it's great, Ralph, I've forgotten our order of ceremonies, let me just bring it back up, so we've covered practice we've covered pals, we've covered eating I think everyone wants you to talk about it by now Jaws, yeah Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, right Let's just get ready for a go.
    76:08
    Let's start with all the jokes about mouths, shall we? Put your money where your mouth is. Yeah. Hold on a minute. Let me do my gag, right? Shark, got your tongue?
    76:21
    Go on, carry on. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me get the gag out of the way. Right. Sturm, sturm, sturm. We want it to eat the ball. Okay. Then we'll go again. We'll make it a ball Stern It sucks Stern, Stern, Stern We want it to eat the ball Okay, we'll make the dinosaur in Jurassic Park eat the ball Stern It sucks Stern, Stern, Stern We want Jaws to eat the ball No, it sucks Does Jurassic Park suck when it eats the ball? It feels pretty good No It's terrible It misses it half the time Well it does miss it I'll give you that Right I mean like Okay go back to Groot doesn't miss But is it special? It's alright It's And Most people think I am very much in the camp Neil That that shark Should bloody well eat that ball And if it shouldn't eat the ball It should eat the bloody boat Shouldn't just spawn up underneath it There we go Oh mate I But anyway, let me know. Come on. I want to know. I've waited all this time. I purposely didn't want to hear your opinion until we started the show.
    77:40
    Is it any good? It is fantastic. I mean, most people are saying, well, Neil, you're just a fair playboy.
    77:51
    Are they wrong, though? No, I'm joking. Of course they're wrong. Look, I'm a great pinball fanboy, right? Of course you are. If I like the game, if the game is... Luke, you know Let's talk about Munsters The worst game ever It's even worse than Freaking Roadshow It's even worse than Diner It's even worse than Spirit It's even worse than So many games out there I can even say Munsters is great It's terrible, Aerosmith I mean, honest to God When they were designing that They must have been asleep or on drugs or both. Let's not detract from what you want to do. Look, get it. What do you think? Tell me about Jaws. Come on. Jaws is fantastic. Look, let me just cover something before we get into it too much.
    78:49
    Remember we were talking about Harry Potter? Yes. Right. And Jaws, I think, to some extent, is feeling the Harry Potter effect. And the effect of that is everybody in their head has got a mental model of what they want in Harry Potter. And by the way, the announcement about Harry Potter is coming soon, so get your checkbooks ready, folks. I know one person who's going to be buying that, yeah. It is imminently about to be announced.
    79:27
    But there's a good chance it might be in Texas. Nice. So, everyone be like, what? But, hold on, let me just... I need to find something. Here we go.
    79:42
    You're right, though. You're never going to appeal anyone when it comes to Jaws. But, that said, I think there are a couple of things I would have probably done differently. I think the artwork is a little bit of a letdown, if I'm honest. I think the artwork on the cabinet looks good, but the artwork on the playfield looks dull.
    80:05
    You think so? You might disagree. Yeah, I do. I think it looks barren. I think it looks boring. I think it looks plain and by the numbers.
    80:14
    I think the artwork for the pro and the LE is the award, multiple award winning classic Jaws artwork if you're talking about the back glass I'm talking about the play field ok the play field is challenged in that they put the characters on the play field right it's the same guy that made Rush and it's still got that bloody lunchbox appeal to it in my view you reckon that? Yeah, I do. I don't think this guy's good at drawing pinball. I'll be honest with you. And look, that is a fair challenge. If you don't like it and you're spending 10 grand, I can see why. I'm fairly confident my wife can do better.
    81:03
    I'm fairly confident my wife can do better. I'm almost 90% certain my wife can do better, because I've seen what she's already done with the art blade. So I'm throwing myself out there and my wife to the wolves. But I honestly feel like... You could get a job for Starman. Yeah, well, do you know what? I do feel like saying put your CV out there, because if the barrier is that low, you've already crowned it.
    81:27
    That's damning, but, like, there you go. But, like, I get it. They played it safe. They went with the poster art on the Translight, and you had to. To me, the Pro surprisingly had the poster art, and then the LE has the same poster art. It's like if I was the LE owner, I'd be like, That should be just for me. That should be for the lowest tier of the game. I actually have to agree with you on that. But I have to say the Queenie one with Quinn with a knife. Where he's holding the machete in the wrong hand? Sure. Is it in the wrong hand? It's in the wrong hand. It is. Is it? It is. Yeah. I need to check that. Yeah, he's left-handed, not right-handed. Anyway.
    82:09
    Know your movies, mate. But yeah, for me. I don't know, the first person view yeah, okay, it's something new I can't think of a game that's done that actually on a Translight but if you look at it, my wife was laughing because I'm going to stick her in it and she's going to be like, shut up, they're going to hate me the shark has angry eyes I hate to break it to you, but whoever did the art for that there's no muscles in a shark around there, they can't frown mate, mate, mate it's a fucking machine man, don't be giving It's artwork. And if you're an artist, you know your fucking mammals and you know your animals. You just talked about Groot, a fictional fucking character from a planet 20% swallowing balls and now you're getting re-built by shark mammals. Come on! Look, why isn't anyone bringing up the fact he's got angry eyes? I'm telling you now, it's a thing. It looks funny from my point of view. I honestly think it's the worst art package they've released to date. I always think to God, to God, I'm like, rush lunchbox. Oh, you're giving a run for the money there. It's like, I am surprised he's still in work. I'm sorry. I, well, nobody's found him. I've said my piece. That's really contentious, and I apologize if I sound like really offensive to you there, but I think he could have done better. I've insulted the entire art community.
    83:36
    And everyone says I'm insulting the people, but no, listen. Like I said, even the artwork, right? Everyone has got this mental model of what they expect, right? Of course. I try my hardest, having had my heart sunk with Thunderbirds, right? Fucking worst artwork that has ever graced a pinball machine. And for me, I'm a massive Thunderbirds fan. I've got Thunderbirds posters and stuff And then Thunderbirds Who ate all the pies Were the shittiest Crappiest artwork It is sad when people do acid drops It really is Yeah And that isn't bad enough But some clown In ITV studios Approved the fact Thunderbirds could be worse though Neil they could have put movie posters up like they did on James Bond that's okay here we go is it?
    84:48
    so when you went to art class they said right if I let you do a theme or something you just went I'll stick some slabs of posters around and that'll do you cannot mess with iconic I knew that would push your button I was waiting you cannot mess with iconic brands and there's nothing more iconic back to the mate I telling you now I telling you now if fucking Back to the Future has fucking posters on the cabinet It going to have this also I so angry my camera going to have my camera That's what it's going to have me. But let me tell you, right, let me tell you. Go on.
    85:27
    If Stan or someone makes the shark eat the ball, right, I want someone... They'll do it on the topper, but it'll be two grand. Yeah, at least Well, be around for the version that doesn't eat the ball I want Jaws I promised Holly I wouldn't talk about Price this session I want Jaws to eat the ball in James Bond because Jaws That would be quite funny actually if they had that music clip I have cried that Jaws in James Bond does not eat the ball right and I think what Stern my hat's off to Stern on this they are the ultimate freaking wind up merchant well I know I saw their CES show where they got the shark eating the ball shark eating the ball yeah they know what they're doing there was one guy who interviewed one of the guys at the show and he goes oh have you heard about the fact the shark doesn't eat the ball on the pin side and he's like yeah I might have heard about it I'm like you've probably never heard about it there's a big fucking shark eating the ball behind you If you listen to the Keith podcast,
    86:40
    so on Insider Connected, please go listen to it, right? On Insider Connected, and this was the point of my original outburst earlier on, Keith says, look, we had a mech, it hit the ball, it was shit. Because every mech that eats the ball, Groot,
    87:00
    Jurassic Park, whatever else it was I was talking about, every mech that eats the ball is boring as fuck. You're like, oh, it ate the ball, and that's it. And then you spend the rest of your freaking life fiddling with that mech.
    87:18
    I was going to bring up the demogorgon, but you can't stand my back. Oh, I've seen it, right? People come into my app and go, oh, Stranger Things, oh, the demogorgon eats the ball. Awesome. Flip, miss, flip, miss, flip. This demogorgon eats the ball with a load of old shit.
    87:35
    It is. Look, look. Neil. Just because they can't design a good mech that eats the ball doesn't mean that not eating the ball isn't a good thing. Grandad, grandad, it's a dinosaur. Does it eat the ball, grandad? Yeah, yeah, let me show you how. Goes up, comes down. Grandad, he didn't eat the ball.
    87:55
    No. Oh, no, no, we've proved that eating the ball is boring. I'm telling you now, I have to. I have to play devil's advocate for the forum because they need a voice for you, right? Because they can't ask you these questions. They would have said, I guarantee you, they would have said, if that thing ate the ball, Neil would say it's the best thing since sliced bread. Nah. I don't think you would have. I honestly think you'd be sitting here right now telling me it's the best mech they've ever made, Scott.
    88:24
    Hey, there is no way. It's eaten the ball. There's so many things that eat the ball and they're all shit. All of them. Tell me one thing. I am desperately trying to think of one where they eat the ball that you would write home about look, I want the dinosaur to eat the ball I honestly still think it's a good mech when it works I want Groot to eat the ball when it launches it to not get stuck in its throat and it kills Groot right?
    88:57
    ok ok, look Look, we have to scale back a little bit in stern days, but look at Funhouse, Rudy, and your favourite roadshow. They eat the balls. And they eat them all right, Red and Ted. No, no, no. They do, though. It's funny as well when they eat it because he sneezes.
    89:17
    No. It's boring as fuck. You've got two of the most hideous looking men. They are scary. I'm not going to lie. by blind people, right? And that's, I can't say that because it's offensive to blind people. They would go to that shop, right? There's you, right? Who made that? Matt Paula, is it? Pat Lawler. I had to think about my mind was in reverse there. Pat Lawler. So there you go. You see, look, you're having to get a stab at him. One of the all-time greats he was. Nah.
    89:51
    Overhyped rubbish. I think the biggest misstep that he ever did was not use, put the claw in Toy Story. I know it's based on Toy Story 4, but that was probably the other big problem. It should have been based on Toy Story 1 to 3, but there we go. Oh my god, Toy Story, don't get me started on that. That is an abortion of stupidity.
    90:12
    So actually, we actually had the game in this. Look, we're going on too long and my wife's telling me I've got to have food soon, so let's crack on, because we've definitely gone off on one. Do you want to discuss Looney Tunes and then go on to Predetti, I think? That's probably what we're going to time for. You finished on Jaws, right? Go on, go on, quick. Oh yeah, because we didn't really talk about it. You just said it was fantastic. Tell me why it's fantastic. Let me tell you why it's fantastic. They have really captured being a character in the movie in a really better way than it's ever been done before. So you really feel like you are out there trying to catch the shark. There's a brilliant bit on it where you go, shark! And you're like, holy shit. And the music goes, the music goes. And honestly, mate, when I first, and it was hard to hear it, but I can make out the hair on the back of my neck just stood up. It is so well executed, right? So I know a lot of folks are saying, there's no moments, nonsense. Absolutely. You may not be feeling them on the video. What's the spinner like? Because I know it's like a fishing reel, right? Again, it is great fun to hit, and it spins round. The way they've designed it, I mean, they've kind of taken, It's part of the mech that I think was in AIQ And in Bond They've basically lightened it up so it spins really quickly The music in this game They've got all the kind of They've got the bit where You need a bigger boat And after that bit, I don't know if you watched the movie recently I thought you were going to say Have you watched the movie then?
    91:45
    They've done so many Great bits with the music And the music is just such a big part of this movie and a big part of this game. And the shark when it moves, you know, when I first saw that I was like, really? It is a lot of fun to hit that. And the way they've designed the chum thing. Do you think it's going to hold up over time? I'm worried about it. It's like, the abuse it's going to take. You know, I'm nervous about that as well. Is that on Pro as well, that one? Yeah, that's on the Pro. Actually, I only played Pro once, and all I can say is that the Pro didn't feel like it was tripping. Didn't the pro, by the way, on that bit where they had all the lighting around it, because unless they added blood coming in through and stuff like that, does it have all that as well?
    92:28
    It has some of that lighting. Does it have all that's in the LE? I can't remember. Okay. So here was my mission, right? I had to get off the plane, get to the venue, get into the venue, which is no easy feat, find Stern, play the games, and get back to the airport. I had three hours left. Jesus. Wow, you really did, like, blast through it then. It took me three and a half. I got lucky on the way back. I was playing it safe because I didn't want to miss the flight back to the UK. But I literally had a handful of hours. And if I couldn't make it work, I was just, you know, that was it. But I'm glad I did it. The game plays lovely. It feels like an Elwynn game. The only thing that's really cool is the upper flipper and trapping the ball there. I like that. That was pretty cool. When I saw Elwynn, like, cradling it up, I've never done things. Is there many games where you can do that And cradle on an upper flipper It's similar, Baywatch has got something similar It's not quite the same But I'm sure that's where the Where the idea came from Big Baywatch game fan I'm sure I heard him say that one time I actually like Baywatch Of all the Segas it was the one I found most enjoyable I've got one that I need to get out of the storeroom It's got a couple of issues with it We tried to use it in the UK Open But there's some weird thing with that I can't even remember what it was But look, anyone who's ordered Jaws You're going to be rewarded And the other thing is, the code is still early If you think about it It's like James Bond, right? They were still putting out code for Godzilla More than a year after Not just bug fixes, but new code At least it's not like JUP, you're not waiting two years for a code update It's never arrived, man It's just a joke So yeah, look Jaws is great Go play at EAG next week if you can You will love it So what about the upper playfield Walk me through that Would you miss it if it was gone On a pro versus the elite I think so I didn't miss it massively It's not the easiest shots to get up there But there is a lot Much more on the upper playfield of Jaws Than say the upper playfield of Foo Fighters Right Foo Fighters I wouldn't miss the upper playfield at all I think that to the upper playfield on Jaws than there is in Foo Fighters. Yeah.
    94:50
    And I think the video mode, I didn't get to the video mode, but I watched someone else get to it. It's quite fun.
    94:59
    Do you remember those Tony Goggle games you used to get? Do you remember? Exactly like that, I saw it. Almost one-to-one. What are they doing, though? Do you think that whole 3D goggles thing, it's just a fad? They've done that as an homage to the... They've done it as an homage to Jaws 3D. You know, that is the homage to Jaws 3D because that's terrible. And it's Jaws 3D, holy shit, it's terrible.
    95:26
    It's really bad. No one in their right mind is going to keep goggles. I imagine you can just default it or turn it off entirely and just have it so that it just goes straight to 2D. Indeed. Luke, it's...
    95:37
    Yeah, I mean, I think everyone will do it once. you know, home users will do it once, and then they'll probably never bother again, and the glasses will be in the coin box forever, on location, I just don't know how you would do it, because you know, the glasses are going to get mad. It's impossible, really, yeah.
    95:52
    Okay, so, next up, Looney Tunes. Looney Tunes, yeah, so very quickly, Patrick Scott, why don't you talk us through this, because I've seen the video briefly, I think you've watched it. Yeah, I watched it through, like, Bug was doing a great, to be honest with you, I think, there's no knock on Killfail Wimp, and his ability to make a game, but I feel like Bug does better in front of a camera than Keith does and getting you more excited to play. He does have an affinity to be able to talk and play at the same time. I certainly couldn't do it. I just need to concentrate and make my shots. I would be more like Keith does, I think. I'd be sat there commenting, going, oh, I missed that. I should have got that, rather than saying, I'm about to do this and I'm going to do that. He was calling out his, you know, the Moes as they were coming up. I liked the voice acting I liked what they'd done with the characters I felt like they've done very reactive call outs I would call it where you do a certain shot quick enough they go hey that's great well done and it's all done in the voice of the character really well like Bugs Bunny or whatever I was trying to think of all the characters names there but it was done really well and I thought the modes were inventive and I felt like they were I don't know if I'd want Texas Chainsaw more, though. Because I'm very horror-themed anyway, so I think I'd still probably lean towards the Texas Chainsaw. But for once, I feel like at least if you choose either model, as in either flavoured, like Looney Tunes or Texas Chainsaw, I don't think you're going to be disappointed. I think you're going to be equally kind of like around the same kind of score, if you know what I mean, in terms of where they land. People who bought Ultraman... I was going to say, they don't want another Ultraman, right? basically. There's no doubt about it, right? But I do feel like they've done better this time. I'm glad they seem to be a little bit more behind the curve with Looney Tunes because it felt like they were pushing Texas first and I think it was further along in the code, probably. It's a theory, anyway. It's got entirely two separate teams, so the games are going to be very different, which I think is great, right?
    97:54
    That's what we want, though. I don't want to see a copy and paste with different assets. So, I really want Looney Tunes you've got to get some inappropriate humour in and I still haven't seen that oh you mean like you want like him to go ah say ah say I just want something that's kind of what's the name of the mouse as well he used to do the Mexican accent you know that guy Speedy Gonzales I don't know if he's in there he's a little bit out of how can I put it the world culture we live in now the PC correctness kind of element. I think so, yeah. You can't go around having a Mexican going, oh, I'm so lazy. It's just like, I have it even on Cactus Canyon. I was surprised to see that. He's like, oh, I can't be bothered to get up. I've been shot. And I was like, dear God, this is stereotyping to the max. I'd say that's more of the Spanish than the Mexicans. I'm not saying a word either way on that one. But like, yeah, it's... I'm just kidding. I'm just surprised. You do have that a lot in the early Bally days, like, you know, Bally Williams, they used to have a lot of, like, I would say stuff that you would never put forward these days. Yeah, when the attack from Mars takes a piss out of the friends in the church, right?
    99:06
    I don't mind it, though. That kind of humour is fine. It's never meant to be insulting. I know, if it's funny, it's funny, but, you know, we obviously don't want to cause them riots or anything, but I do think, you know, Lennytoons is, you know, dropping someone off the edge of a cliff. With an anvil, yeah. Yeah, it's not, I mean, that's not politically correct than anyone you wouldn't do that to your buddy right I think it's more about like you know giving the stereotypes but like look I'd say I'm confident that I think it will be received better than Ultraman or Halloween I think it will do well for itself I think they'll probably sell probably two to three hundred units of each probably won't get anywhere near their suggested what was their maximum 888 I doubt it as well I mean I think a lot of people want to play I mean you know there's definitely a lot of wait and see these days. I think people are still blind.
    99:59
    Yeah, there's a few people that I don't think were overly enthralled about the last few games. They feel burned. Yeah.
    100:10
    Scooby, I think, is definitely one of their better games. It's still easy in my mind. Yeah. Not necessarily a bad thing, as I said.
    100:19
    I'm hoping that when people play and I think they didn't have it in Ace Goge, they weren't shipping yet But I was hoping to play TCM but It wasn't there but I do think You know if they get the code right on these Games I think they could be big winners It could be Am I going to buy one new? Probably not To be honest with you this year for me I'm just going to calm down on the whole brand new Purchases Unless someone, as you say there's a couple of games that Sounds like they're going to be announced we should probably talk about Because I'm getting short on time so obviously they're going to be making remakes they've got the license now from Planetary Pinball working alongside Planetary Pinball who are apparently going to be supplying Bally Williams parts or Bally Williams licensed parts to them they'll be made apparently in the USA shipped to the Italian manufacturing plant and then assembled on site question is, what's the first game? I think if I kind of like to be honest with you I have a really good inkling on it anyway but I would say I think it's going to be Twilight Zone for the first one I think Twilight Zone is the obvious everyone was like oh it's fishtails and I'm like you really think they're going to be that blatant with their image if you look behind it there's a Twilight Zone if you look at the Translight art they did for um Whirlwind 2.0 there's the pyramid with the eye on it I think they've been dropping easter eggs for a while now It'd be very surprising If it's not the first game It's definitely in their five That they're making within the next year or so I mean my take on that is So they're using the Is it the action pinball Set I forget Fast pinball I'll be honest here I'm not overly impressed By that board set Oh you're not I feel nervous about it And also every privetty thing that I've come into touch with has not had the build quality of a CGC their toppers have been alright I mean like I thought the Funhouse topper was pretty nice and I had a Scared Stiff topper and that quality was good but I don't know as you say they're a brand new company they've got a lot to prove, everyone thinks they're Pinball Brothers, they're not they just partnered with Pinball Brothers I feel like Twilight Zone's a risky one, right? Because I look at that bill of materials and I'm like, if you're going to be able to do this, you've got to be able to sell it at 10k, otherwise everyone's going to be like, CGC did it for 10, but I know for a fact that Twilight Zone, that bill of materials is massive. If you can pull it off at 10k, you're definitely pulling a miracle. Plus you've got to do...
    103:12
    You've got to do some upgrades. Yeah, basically an upgrade, that means they're going to have to redo... They're going to have to adjust the lighting, because the game's face, it was dark as hell in the back. Yeah, Twilight Zone's DMV, actually, is pretty rubbish.
    103:26
    So they're going to have to talk that up. There's going to be an LE version, I think. Yeah, there will have to be a topper. Although it'll be interesting to see how they stack up, because you've got that company that made that one that's on the wire form. That was pretty high quality, but it was $1,600, which is a lot for a topper. I don't know It's stacked against them a little bit I must admit If they pull off Twilight Zone Yeah I mean I think Twilight Zone I think is make or break for them Either they do a good job And then it's a downhill slide for them Because everyone raves about Twilight Zone Or they fuck it up And no one will buy anything that comes after it It is hard isn't it They're going out the gate with one of the most complex games From that era, if I'm honest 100% What else did we want to cover? I think you covered Gollyheap I'm slightly out of the chair Maybe let's skip Gollyheap For the next show What I wanted to say was In this, there's a lot of these great Gollyheap games And They're not, I used to be Almost anti them entirely Because every time there was one on an event It broke I've kind of proven that to be not the case And I definitely want to get a few more for the club I got Diamond Lady When did they stop production? Was it in the 80s or 90s? Sometime in the 90s 30s, 90s maybe They got like Stargate Didn't they? And then Alvin T came along They went bankrupt I think two or three times Through different organisations But Yeah look we'll cover that maybe get James Reid on because he's a big yeah we might as well get an expert on it I've never even owned one but he's working tonight yeah and then I think what else we mentioned Lyman oh we wanted to cover off Stumbler's mod I think we should be able to finish on that yeah I mean look Stumbler good friend of the show put out the new Area 51 update or the Premium LE. Does it fit the Pro? I don't know if it fits the Pro. I can read for you while you carry on talking.
    105:56
    Check this out, folks. It is a beautiful piece of pinball engineering. Super high quality. Really shows what the art of the possible is. I think he's got something like 800 orders for it or something. So presently, at least even on the list, there's 401 on the list and 106 sent out so far. And he's spent already 46 this month. So he's quite, I would say, open with his production line. Yeah. And, Luke, you know, I've got a couple of his mods that have been superb.
    106:34
    Just if you've got a few photos, check it out. It's phenomenal. And definitely Worth the dollars It's entirely hard to say because he hasn't specified What model it's for but I think it might Work across all three models Yeah okay well definitely Definitely worth checking out it's a beautiful mod I'm on the list but I think I'm like 500 or something It's fully game integrated And that's the kind of mod I like When someone puts effort in to make it Interactive and he says He's got that lollipop forward that where you can yeah so six independent switch triggers it's got a flasher trigger and the GI sense so it's obviously designed to be fully interactive and that's what I like about that it adds to the game builds to the world that's our kind of mod of the month and well done to JB for putting out you know continuing to put out the quality that he has definitely and you know probably a worthy he's got a few mods that are worthy of the Mod of the year In some Some sort of Pimble award show If whatever happens again Yeah Whichever that gets replaced By these days So last Last question Other than Cactus Canyon What other Pimble machines Have you bought In the last month If any No Instead I bought A jukebox machine A jukebox I went down Vinyl records Slippery bloody slope that is. That's another whole hobby of disaster money there. I use this magic word called solace.
    108:15
    Don't you get any of the aggro? I blame pinball for this because I never used to touch any of this stuff. I wasn't even interested in it and now all of a sudden I feel like I'm clocking back through the era. As I get older now, I'm like clinging on to analogue physical media. I have a fiddle group. jukebox in the past and literally... There's something about jukeboxes that I find fascinating, if I'm honest with you. The way they work. They also have very similar pinball mechanisms in them. They use leaf switches. They have coils and solenoids. I look underneath it and I go, no wonder I'm interested in it, because it's like a pinball machine. I would love a jukebox from M to Sonos. You know, where you have a Wurlitzer and a screen on it that somehow... but nah that's a I've got a lot of vinyl in the loft I've got literally Ollie's been buying job lots of vinyl so the interesting part about it is that when you haven't got a collection you can get away with buying job lots and then it's like picking out vinyl records and going oh there's a Michael Jackson bad that's great I love that how many discs does your jukebox play I think it's a hundred oh that's ok that's a bit more yeah basically like you know obviously You feel a cartridge. It's like, this one's made in Germany. We had to check out the whole history on it, because that was the weird thing. It's not Wurlitz. It's not, I forget the other brand that was a big one. It's NSM. And NSM, I think, is like a rebrand of one of those other ones from America. Yeah, it is. Yeah, so not nearly as high or as expensive as your kind of Wurlitz, isn't that? But definitely still a chunk of change. I'll stick with the music theme. I bought Beatles.
    109:58
    Oh, yeah, you bought a Beatles pin, didn't you? It got delivered a couple of days ago So it's not here, it's in my lock-up But I'll hopefully get that to the club soon But that's a game that's been on my list for a while And finally I've got to admit, I'm at 11 games now I didn't think I was ever going to get that I'm contemplating knocking down Do you know where I've got that extension I've got that kind of I want to call it partition That I use to separate some of the tallings I'm tempted to just knock that down And put another four pins there If I'm honest I would if I were you. And actually, last but not least, folks, if you haven't got this, this is the Fix It For Venom. I just got a hold of it.
    110:44
    Electro kind of got them coming. I managed to pick one up when I was in New York. Like a service bulletin. Yeah, and on the LE, you get this part that fixes air balls, which is why I wanted it. If the air balls don't find the mech, you have to wait for a ball search. It's got a few others.
    110:59
    but is there an electric run of Grumman on order? They're coming soon. For those of you that have got the game, Phil will be getting them out to you soon. What you might want to do is take a scan of that and give it to Cole, because he can then make a coloured version of it for you. I would do that, but Cole was making fun of me on the forum and made me cry.
    111:20
    I told you I had to be the voice of those people. He was putting the salt, wasn't he, in the hand? Yeah, that was pretty funny. I'm bad from the forum, but more people talk about me than I ever everybody loves you Neil they're all for good they're going to always talk about you you're like the Canada of the UK it's that gang which did make me laugh but I will consider sharing this with Colin if the price is right I will on that bombshell as they say it's been a pleasure talking to you as always and Luke if you want us to talk about something or have a rant about something we are your men in the UK we will rant and shout and scream about any pinball crime we're definitely not always on the same side of the same coin but we rant about it from different angles exactly but Luke I'm off to play Alvira to try and get this time and token I encourage everyone to do that And this weekend We've got a couple of tournaments At the club I won't be there unfortunately But Tim is running a tournament And Matt has a property tournament All that remains for us to say Is thank you We appreciate you We actually hit a thousand downloads last month That's amazing I can't believe it There's a thousand people that would listen to me Drone on for two hours For free I normally have to pay people to listen to me but no seriously we do appreciate it any feedback you've got we just love talking about pinball we do try and keep this down I did say to him I need to finish early and we're still at the two hour mark we're not going to be two hours we're going to be less than two hours because we're going to say goodbye from me have a great one guys see you soon
    113:24
    I'm going to need a pick up, folks.