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The Pinball Show Ep 46: The Ceiling-Measuring Contest

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 13m·analyzed·Jan 11, 2021
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TL;DR

Pinball Show Ep46: Nordman joins American Pinball; Stern updates Stranger Things; industry manufacturing challenges discussed.

Summary

Episode 46 of The Pinball Show features host Zach Minney interviewing Bruce Nightingale from the Slam Tilt podcast. The episode covers industry news including Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses shipments and Toy Story rumors, Stern's Stranger Things code updates and a humorous 'glitter overstock' story, and significant changes at American Pinball where legendary designer Dennis Nordman has been hired as Senior Game Designer with three junior designers. Discussion focuses on manufacturing challenges, Joe Balser's transition to contract status, and comparisons between designer philosophies.

Key Claims

  • Dennis Nordman hired as Senior Game Designer at American Pinball with three junior designers underneath him

    high confidence · Ken Rudsberg/Kaz news segment confirming announcement from Super Awesome Pinball Show interview

  • American Pinball plans to release two to three games per year

    high confidence · Dave Fix statement in news segment; hosts express skepticism this is achievable

  • One of American Pinball's three junior designer games will release within six months

    high confidence · News segment cites Dave Fix/Nordman interview on Super Awesome Pinball Show

  • Joe Balser is no longer full-time at American Pinball, transitioned to contract designer status

    high confidence · Dave Fix quote: 'Joe has a unique way of working with people'; news segment confirms contract status

  • Dennis Nordman spent two years at Deep Root Pinball but lacked engineering support to complete mechanisms

    high confidence · Direct Nordman quote: 'I've been with Deep Root for two years, and I did three really awesome games for them, but I never had an engineer with them the entire time. I just couldn't make any more progress, no mechanisms, no nothing.'

  • Stern experienced significant glitter overstock in procurement

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby satirical news segment describing 'Glitter Mountain' at Stern HQ and BOM constraints

  • Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition machines are rolling off production line and shipping

    high confidence · Ken Rudsberg Jersey Jack update: 'machines are posted rolling off the line'

  • Toy Story remains persistent rumor as next Jersey Jack release after Guns N' Roses

    medium confidence · Ken Rudsberg: 'rumor that just won't go away' linking Pat Lawlor to Toy Story

  • Stranger Things V1.02 code adds Demogorgon Bomb feature and Swipe-A-Ball (Premium/LE only)

Notable Quotes

  • “I've been with Deep Root for two years, and I did three really awesome games for them, but I never had an engineer with them the entire time. I just couldn't make any more progress, no mechanisms, no nothing.”

    Dennis Nordman @ ~51:30 — Reveals critical engineering resource gap at Deep Root Pinball that forced Nordman's departure; directly impacts credibility of their current Raza production claims

  • “Joe has a unique way of working with people”

    Dave Fix @ ~44:00 — Euphemistic statement regarding Joe Balser's departure from full-time role; hosts interpret as likely departure from company

  • “I don't want to be the face of this. I don't want to be the head guy. I'll have four other people that will be equal partners putting up the same money, putting up the same effort.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~8:30 — Reveals Bruce's strategy for co-op arcade venture following bar loss; emphasizes distributed ownership model to reduce personal stress

  • “I don't give a f*** who ordered it, and I don't care if that motherf***er Brian Eddy wants it, and we sure as f*** don't have the BOM capacity to handle it.”

    Gary Stern (reported) @ ~23:45 — Satirical news segment; indicates BOM constraints limiting special effects/cosmetic additions at Stern

  • “every place I've been, I'd like to grow roots. The people I've been with haven't been able to produce a pinball game.”

    Dennis Nordman @ ~50:00 — Nordman reflects on pattern of company failures to productize his designs; contextualizes his movement between manufacturers

  • “If you're going to have a theme that is not licensed, it's my strong opinion, it better be dynamic in every other checkbox. Otherwise, you've got a game run of about 100, if you're lucky.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~46:00 — Design philosophy statement on unlicensed IP viability; directly addresses Raza's commercial prospects

  • “That's one of their titles, too”

    Zach Minney @ ~49:00 — Reference to Deep Root's 'Riot Pinball' as existing title; indicates potential connection between junior designer candidates and Riot Pinball team

Entities

Bruce NightingalepersonZach MinneypersonDennis NordmanpersonJoe BalserpersonKeith ElwinpersonDave FixpersonPat Lawlorperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball's stated goal of 2-3 games per year is perceived by industry veterans as unrealistic given manufacturing constraints

    high · Bruce Nightingale: 'Two games, maybe. It's going to be hard.' Multiple references to COVID-related parts shortages and manufacturing complexity

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root Pinball lacks engineering capacity to support game development; Nordman's experience suggests systemic resource gaps that may jeopardize Raza production

    high · Nordman quote: 'I never had an engineer with them the entire time. I just couldn't make any more progress, no mechanisms, no nothing.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Slam Tilt podcast claims three listeners/guests have been hired into pinball industry positions; positions podcast as talent pipeline into manufacturing

    medium · Bruce quote: 'You either started a podcast by listening from us, or you got a job from a pinball company.' Mentions goat reference and three confirmable hires

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Keith Elwin's modern game design philosophy (frequency of releases, depth of rules/playfield integration, mechanics complexity) positioned as superior to Dennis Nordman's classic design approach

    medium · Bruce decisively chooses Elwin over Nordman; compares Jurassic Park/Avengers depth against Whitewater/Demolition Man shallowness

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Bruce Nightingale articulates view that unlicensed IP games require exceptional dynamic design/rules depth; predicts Raza will sell only 100 units if underperforms on design metrics

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.399

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
0:33
Hey, everybody. It's the Pinball Show, and I'm your host, Zach Minney. We're in episode 46, and I'm excited about our co-host this week because I have never met this individual. He is a fellow podcaster. He's a pinball personality. His voice has become a staple for many pinball enthusiasts. You can thank him personally for the consistent trending up of Stern Electronics Games, but just don't ask him about TNA or $1,000 toppers. Now, this man's resiliency is a true inspiration. Even though his takes on pinball, eh, they're usually shit. His passion for pinball and the people in it has shined for years as the co-host of the Slam Tilt podcast. I may disagree with him more than I don't, but I respect the hell out of this man. Ladies and gentlemen, Bruce Nightingale. Thank you for that, but it's not Bruce Bennington tonight It's Haneda I'm a little ahead, I'm ahead of the K So I'm number one in this one So this is Haneda Do people ever call you hun? We get that down here My wife does Isn't that the most endearing thing? I love that I love it too I'm very lucky to have my wife because she actually accepts this hobby as much as a wife can. Yeah, that's no joke. That's no joke. How you been, ma'am? Very good. I've never met you, but I am. Ron's giving you good words, so I'm going on his leap of faith. Really? No. I got the Hallett approval? You got the Hallett approval. Holy shit. I'll take that, man. And his Creasel approval. So what is that? That's cool, too. Wait a minute. Now I know you're fucking lying. You're like, Dennis Crickle has not approved of me. Oh, he approves of everything. Trust me. I did ask him last night any last words, and he gave me some advice, so I'm going to keep that to myself and use it for this show. Oh, that terrifies me immensely. Excellent. Now, what have you been up to the last couple weeks? Oh, I know. You are a good singer, too, though. See? So we can sing all we want this time. Do you think we'll harmonize well, Bruce? I hope so. I really do. What have you been up to the last couple weeks?

high confidence · Craig Bobby Stern News Update citing code release details

  • Deep Root's Raza pre-orders closed; expected sales are approximately 100-200 units versus anticipated 400-500

    medium confidence · Zach Minney and Bruce Nightingale estimate based on industry context; hosts discuss cost implications

  • “Two games, maybe. It's going to be hard. If they maybe release a game in January, maybe the next, you know, November.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~35:00 — Skepticism toward American Pinball's two-to-three games per year target; realistic assessment of manufacturing constraints

  • “You either started a podcast by listening from us, or you got a job from a pinball company.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~28:00 — Slam Tilt podcast's claimed impact on industry hiring; confirms three Slam Tilt guests have been hired into pinball companies

  • “Elwin in a second.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~1:12:00 — Designer preference comparison: Bruce chooses Keith Elwin over Dennis Nordman; bases decision on Elwin's newer game quality and design depth

    • Ken Rudsberg/Rudberg
    person
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Franchiperson
    Christian Lineperson
    Ron Hallettperson
    Tim Sextonperson
    Raymond Davidsonperson
    American Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gamingcompany
    The Pinball Network (TPN)organization
    Guns N' Roses Collector's Editionproduct
    Stranger Things (Stern)product
    Razaproduct
    Slam Tilt Podcastorganization

    medium · Bruce quote: 'if you're going to have a theme that is not licensed, it's my strong opinion, it better be dynamic in every other checkbox'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition successfully completing production and shipping; addresses previous pre-order fulfillment uncertainty

    high · Ken Rudsberg: 'machines are posted rolling off the line. Games are being boxed up and shipped out'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Joe Balser transitioned from full-time to contract designer status at American Pinball; hosts interpret as functional departure

    high · Dave Fix quote about 'unique way of working with people'; news segment confirms contract status change

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dennis Nordman hired as Senior Game Designer at American Pinball with three junior designers reporting to him; represents significant talent acquisition for boutique manufacturer

    high · Multiple news segments confirm announcement; Zach and Bruce discuss implications for American Pinball's design direction

  • $

    market_signal: Deep Root Raza pre-order volume estimated at 100-200 units versus manufacturer's anticipated 400-500; will significantly increase per-unit costs and require cost structure adjustment

    medium · Zach and Bruce discuss quantity ordering implications and margin compression; Zach notes this mirrors Hot Wheels reveal failures

  • ?

    announcement: American Pinball will release game title from one of three junior designers within six months; identity not yet revealed

    high · News segment: 'one of which is actually going to be releasing a game within the next six months'; Dave Fix claims unknown identity

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Toy Story remains persistent rumor as next Jersey Jack release; linked to designer Pat Lawlor and expected after Guns N' Roses fulfillment

    low · Ken Rudsberg: 'This seems to be a rumor that just won't go away. Since the Toy Story rumor emerged, several machines...have all been released'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern experiencing BOM constraints limiting cosmetic/special effect enhancements; glitter overstock story suggests procurement challenges

    low · Craig Bobby satirical segment: Gary Stern quote about BOM capacity; reference to glitter removal from BOM like Led Zeppelin revision

    • 2:50
    Work and moving pinballs. I'm still renting games. Oh, okay. So I have two out on location this month. A little extra cash.
    3:00
    I have a side project that we are starting to try to do since I've lost a bar. Okay. Back in six months ago. I am in talks with a couple people to do a co-op. Oh, yeah. I think I heard you talking about that on the last slam tilt. Yep. And like a collective kind of thing. It's going good. We think we found a location. Okay. And it's pretty cheap, which is also a good thing. And, uh, we're just banging out parts of the co-op agreement that with the people that aren't going to be involved. And then the lease or, and maybe you'll be seeing me running shows and tournaments again. And hopefully when this whole COVID thing breaks over, but for now, It would be just setting up the room for doing what we have to do. Well, that would make the pinball world very, very happy. I would be, that would be back in that part of it. I do miss the shows. I do miss the contact with the people. Sure. Do you ever get nervous, though, now with all of the shit that you've dealt with in 2020? And, dude, Si, you've really dealt with a lot of shit. That's why I talked to the head of the show about resiliency. I couldn't imagine, but you're the type of person that will put up the middle finger to anything that's stepped in your way, and you'll keep trucking, so I respect the hell out of you. But do you ever get nervous about starting up something else? Yes and no. With the right people, no. If I have the right group of people I'm going to be with, I feel instead of being nervous, it's actually a better support system. When we had the bar, it was just me and my wife and, of course, our employees. but your employees are never as strong as you. Of course. And it's not a knock against them. It's just, you know. You're more invested. Yeah, you're an owner. You want to be more involved. You want the business to succeed more than anybody else. So in that part, but I know now that if we have four other people at the same level as me, and the good thing about this, I don't want to be the face of this. I don't want to be the head guy. I'll have four other people that will be equal partners putting up the same money, putting up the same effort. So for me, it's a lot less stressful. So when it does come time where I can hopefully shine when it comes to talking to people, getting the advertising, getting the people coming in for TV and that kind of stuff, getting players to come in for tournaments, that's where I can shine. And somebody else can do the backroom stuff. And somebody else can maybe worry about repairs a little more. And somebody else can do the website and that kind of stuff. And it'll be a lot less stress. But, of course, with COVID, who knows what's going to happen. That's no joke. You said you don't want to be the face of it, but it's going to be hard for you not to be the face of it. I know that from personal experience, like the Pinball Network, I'm not supposed to be particularly the face of that. But you are. So we see how that works. You, Dennis, and, you know. Yeah, me and Dennis. And everyone else behind in the TPN. I would like to think that, yeah. When I think of you guys, though, it's, of course, you and Dennis. But then you also have a great supporting cast, which makes the network so good because I listen to almost everything on it. Oh, hot damn. Even Puppet Pals, Bruce? Actually, I've got the Puppet Pals are actually, I want to interview them, people. I want to interview them so bad. So good. I love how they swear.
    6:26
    Moppy kind of reminds me of you. I love Moppy. So you've been busy then. Okay. People have been listening to you on the Slam Tilt podcast for years. Almost five years, almost. Geez. Yeah. Man. We're coming on our five-year anniversary in June. That's pretty insane, man. Now, you had a, let's see, you've had how many Clusterbucks now? Three? Three. Three Clusterbucks. I thought so.
    6:51
    I thought so. I'll have to check and make sure you guys have my email, because for some reason, I keep getting missing invitations. You need to be talking to Ron about that because he is on your TPN Discord. What the fuck, Ron? Yeah. Where's my invite? We do want to have you on. We want to have the Zach show. Oh. I like the ring of that. Zach versus Zach. Oh, I don't know if I like the ring of that.
    7:21
    I liked it until I thought of your Zach, and I was like, oh, no. I can't. Come on. Our Zach versus you would be great. In what? Oh, well, that'd be good. You know what, though? Here's a crazy thing, Bruce. Zach and I, your Zach and I, we agree on a lot of games, actually. Yes, I know. You guys like Alien. We like Star Wars.
    7:47
    Yeah, I think Zach likes Star Wars, I believe. No, he loves Star Wars. I thought so. It's his number one game. Uh-huh. So, yeah, we actually like some of the same things. He likes some of the Jersey Jacks, doesn't he? He likes Guns N' Roses. Okay. Check. We got that in common. But he doesn't like the other ones. I don't think that much. Oh, okay. Dialed in. He says he's a, you know. Well, we can argue about that. That'd be fine.
    8:09
    I disagree with you the most, man. You like games that just make no sense, and you disapprove of games that are just wonderful. Like, okay, let's go for it. Come on. Oh, shit.
    8:21
    We don't even get into the news yet. Top rope time. Here we go. Yeah, I don't. We're going to talk about a lot of them today, but new Led Zeppelin. What do you think? I like the shots. I don't think the Pro is what it's all cut out to be. It's a little bare. They took a little too much out of it. I think if they had the side ramp, it would have been a lot better. I've never played one, of course, so that's the only part I can say. But what I've watched, I think the rules, I like the rules you just came out. There seems like a lot of good stuff in there. and luckily tomorrow we get to talk to three of the programmers at Slam Tilt. Wow, how about that for a tease? I like that. We get Mr. Tim Sexton, Mr. Raymond Davidson and one of the other programmers. I just only learned his name today because they asked me this morning, hey, can we have this guy on? I'm like, yeah. Well, that's pretty cool then because those guys, Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson, you've been friends with them for a long time and they've appeared on the Slam Tilt podcast quite frequently. We like our quote on the Slam Tilt is, you either started a podcast by listening from us, or you got a job from a pinball company. Hey, I've seen it happen over there at Slam Tilt, so congratulations to you guys. We got three people hired. Well, not us, but, you know, they've been on our show, and then they got hired. Yeah, even the goat. Even the goat. Yeah, see? Mm-hmm. I need, well, let's face it, I need to show up then, because I'd like to have just yet another job. How about that? There you go. You have so much free time. At least you're close to the factory. Why not? Yeah, I'm about five and a half. And you're probably here a couple times. Yeah, I've been there before. It's time for TPN Industry News.
    10:14
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Tech update. Well, Christmas is finally here for Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition buyers as machines are posted rolling off the line. Games are being boxed up and shipped out with many buyers eagerly awaiting the arrival of their machines this week. With the final Guns N' Roses hurdle cleared, many are asking what is next for Jersey Jack? Many still cling to the theory that Toy Story will be the next to drop. And this seems to be a rumor that just won't go away. Since the Toy Story rumor emerged, several machines, including the Yellow Brick Rose version of Wizard of Oz, Willy Wonka, and Guns N' Roses have all been released. Rumors of the designer Pat Lawler and Toy Story have always gone together, and with the Lawler game likely next, it just might be time for Woody and Buzz to replace Axl and Flash as the new hot property from JJP. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudsberg.
    11:15
    Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's Stern News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. New code. Yes, the 2020 code party keeps on rolling as Stern Pinball has posted new Stranger Things code V1.02 for the Pro, Premium and Limited Edition models, much to the delight of the Stranger Things fans around the globe. This dynamic code update includes numerous game enhancements, including the brand new Demogorgon Bomb feature across all models and the exciting new Swipe-A-Ball feature, available only on the Premium and LE models. When Dustin, a self-proclaimed Stranger Things superfan, was asked for a quote regarding the code update, he replied, F*** yeah! F*** yeah! End quote. Oh. Oh yes, thank you. Looks like some breaking news here.
    12:14
    It appears someone in the Stern Pinball procurement department has substantially overbought glitter. Yes, what appears to have started out as a test project at Stern for clear coat finishes and minor festive office embellishments has turned into a blinding glitter shitstorm for the world's largest pinball company. Earlier today, truckloads of glitter could be seen being offloaded in the morning sunlight in the parking lot of Stern headquarters. This was, of course, much to the surprise and blinding wonderment of Stern employees, leaving what could only be called a, quote, glorious glitter mountain not seen since the last Elton John tour, end quote. Several eyewitnesses report Gary Stern himself being quoted as saying, I don't give a f*** who ordered it, and I don't care if that motherf***er Brian Eddy wants it, and we sure as f*** don't have the BOM capacity to handle it. A bit of harsh language there. Other eyewitness reports said most of the pinball designers at Stern that were at first exuberant at the creation of the monumental Glitter Mountain had their glitter dream shattered as Stern ordered the sparkling Mountain of Hope removed, much like the BOM of Steve Ritchie's Led Zeppelin. Well, isn't that something? A certain catchphrase comes to mind of this starry-eyed news reporter. all that glitters truly isn't made of gold. No, it certainly isn't. Reporting for the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    13:53
    Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. It was an exciting week as Dennis Nordman was announced as the Senior Game Designer at American Pinball. Dennis and David Fix were guests on the super awesome pinball show where they have a lot of behind-the-scenes info about Dennis' hiring. There's going to be three junior designers working underneath Dennis with one of those titles being released in the next six months. They also want to release two to three games per year. Joe Balser is no longer a full-time employee and is now a contract designer. And also, Roger Sharp is working as a consultant to acquire licenses. It's a very exciting time for American Pinball. Hope you guys have a great week. Have fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kossner.
    14:38
    Let's kick it over, Bruce, to American Pinball. Now, this last week, right after Dennis and I were done recording episode 45, we aired that the Super Awesome Pinball Show was able to interview some new employees for American Pinball. And that is Dennis Nordman, who we all know as a pinball designer. We've got Whitewater. We have Elvirus House of Horrors. You have Demolition Man. Special Force. You have Wheel of Fortune. Oh, God. Wheel of Fortune. Well, I actually like Wheel of Fortune a little bit.
    15:13
    It's different. I don't like it for the rules. I like it for the non-Italian bottom. Woo-hoo. Well, that's fair. See? That is fair. That's right. Call back to the Italian bottom song. And then we had Dave Fix that joined. He's the operations manager or something, something like that. Manufacturing and operations. Yeah, and we know Dave Fix. Both you and I know Dave Fix. Prior to his employment with American Pinball, he helps run the Chicago Pinball Expo. That's where I knew him from. And he is heavy into the area of Buffalo and upper New York, so you know him very well through that. Yes. So he and Dennis Nordman joined the Super Awesome Pinball Show with Franchi and Christian Line. to discuss this transition. And boy, was it a doozy. They had a lot of information.
    16:06
    I told Dennis Crease, I said, I'm kind of glad that I didn't hear that episode before he and I went into it because I've had a little time to let it breathe, if you will. Like a good wine, yes. Yeah. And just like a wine, I wanted to pour it out at the end of it. No, I'm joking. So let's go through some of the talking points here, Bruce. We know that one of the most brave things that I heard Dave Fix say was claiming that American Pinball will just now start producing two to three game titles a year. I'm going to ask you this, Bruce. How in the hell did that happen? It doesn't. Not yet. I could see it eventually. Who may be? The good manufacturing processes and everything else, but manufacturing is so hard. I'm in manufacturing right now again, and oh, my God, the delays right now with COVID alone. Really? Parts and everything? Oh, it's just amazing. You can't even get nuts and bolts. Oh, everything falls down. I thought you worked for the CIA. I heard on one of the last Lame Tales you were like, I can't discuss that. I'm like, oh, shit. I work for Corning. Okay. Three, let's all, listener, let's agree. Three games is, no, Dave, stop. Two games, maybe. It's going to be hard. If they maybe release a game in January, maybe the next, you know, November. Yeah, semantics, okay. Maybe it will fill into the two.
    17:43
    Let's get one good game out. That's my motto is you have a good start with Hot Wheels. Now, let's build off that. Let's just say Hot Wheels was their best game they've put out so far. I actually do like Oktoberfest. I like their games, yeah. I don't like the animations on those. I know some people like the robot chicken feel. Oh, on Hot Wheels?
    18:07
    Okay, I mean, I didn't think I'd like it, but then once I owned it for a bit, I thought, okay, this works. It's campy. It still doesn't pull me in long term. I don't feel hooked like I do some other games, but it works. But two games a year. He came out on fire, listener. He also talked about bringing in, he's already brought in, he's been on the job for a whole two weeks, brought in three junior game designers, one of which is actually going to be releasing a game within the next six months. And he claimed, and there's a lot of claims in this interview, claimed that we would know the names. Do you think we'll know the names?
    18:47
    Is it the Riot Pinball people? I think we will know the names once we hear them. Maybe one or two, probably not all three.
    18:57
    But I don't know. Three junior game designers working under Dennis Nordman. And to my knowledge, Dennis Nordman is kind of like a lineman. He kind of likes working at home. Yeah. I don't know. He has a whole spiel of stuff at home. Yeah, he's got like a wood shop. How are you going to teach anybody in COVID? Yeah, it's interesting. We'll see. I think the rumor has been, and I see this could be potentially true, the Riot Pinball guys that did Valhalla and Wooly and stuff like that, maybe one of those guys is one of the junior game designers, and, of course, if they run with Valhalla, then, yeah, that game is done because they did say game four was being bumped or, quote, put on hold. Yes. News flash, that's because it was a Joe Balzer game. And game five has been, quote, bumped up because it is ready by a junior designer. Would you like to see Valhalla?
    19:58
    As an enthusiast, sure. As a pinball dealer, no. How many games does Valhalla sell? 200, 250? I don't think they went that high even. Maybe not. I think they stopped it a little before that. Well, no, they've only made five to eight. Yeah, exactly. They wanted to sell 200, and they couldn't even get the sales for that. Yeah, what do you think? But they didn't have a net or really a push that they should have had. There were some cool things going on in Valhalla. I don't like the ball lock eject where that magnet is a little weird. And the theme overall, it's a cool theme. But if you're going to have a theme that is not licensed, it's my strong opinion, it better be dynamic in every other checkbox. Otherwise, you've got a game run of about 100, if you're lucky. What, dialed in and didn't tickle your tummy with the tape?
    20:55
    I mean, my pickle was thoroughly tickled with gameplay and rules. but then when I see it sitting by Jurassic Park and all of these other dynamite licensed, no, it doesn't hold sorry Ron Hallett any gimmick that you have in the pinball machine like your app and you can use the flippers with it, to me was wasted time it seemed like a cool idea didn't it but you're right nobody that owns that game does that you hook it up to bluetooth No, no, no. Yeah. So three junior game designers. We'll see who that is soon enough. And then there were some, I'm going to call them jabs thrown by Dave Fix, one of them being the statement regarding Joe Balser, because everybody's like, well, where's Joe Balser? Hello. He said, quote, Joe has a unique way of working with people, end quote. And he's claiming that Joe Balser is still a contract designer, But to me, it sounds like Joe Balzer is gone. Yeah, I think so, too. I think they just didn't, you know, I think they didn't see the sales from even Hot Wheels. And I don't blame Joe Balzer for the Hot Wheels dilemma because it came out just before COVID. That was, yeah, that was a tough rollout. And they revealed it in the most effed up, dumb way ever. Like, let's take it to IAAPA or whatever. Yeah, and then COVID hit. It was these companies and not understanding how to, and I'm not trying to pull the wool over anybody's head here, but when you're revealing a game, you see why it's so important to reveal like a Jersey Jack did with GNR because you get those impulse dollars, Bruce. That's just how we work. We want something now, and that's why you see Stern Pinball Games selling, like Led Zeppelin, selling really well right now, and it's because people don't want to wait for GNR. They don't want to wait for Alien. They just want a damn game now. And guess what? If you can produce it, guess what? You can sell it. If you can't produce it, you can't really sell it that much. Yeah. I think that Joe Balser was given three, four years here. Yes. I love Joe. I really like Joe. I actually like Joe's designs. I do, too. Damn, we agree there. We agree on something. Wait a sec. Edit. This isn't going to work for the narrative we're trying to present here. Except for, Joe has some weird, like, Simpsons is not, it's fun to shoot, but it's not flowy.
    23:33
    It's Joe Bolzer. I've had one for a while, and now Jack Teelis has mine. Oh, really? I don't know what shoots worse, that or your shitty-ass Monopoly.
    23:43
    That does. Monopoly shoots way better because it's just Adam's family with just, you know. And everyone loves Adam's family, so you're set. Oh, yeah. Let me tell you.
    23:52
    And speaking of that, be on the lookout this next week for Straight Down the Middle's top ten most overrated pinball machines on YouTube. Okay. This is a little Adam's family drought there. Okay. So it takes a little jab at our boy, Balser. And then Nordman, regarding just kind of, we know Nordman, he bounces around everywhere. Dennis calls him the canary in the coal mine or something like that. I don't know. Yes. Some reference to that. As soon as he starts squawking and having issues, he's the first to jump ship. Yep. And it's not his fault. Maybe he's the smartest one. It could be. He said, quote, every place I've been, I'd like to grow roots. The people I've been with haven't been able to produce a pinball game. Uh-oh. He goes further to talk about Deep Root, because we know that he was there not too long ago doing Yukon Yeti and a couple different games. He said, quote, I've been with Deep Root for two years, and I did three really awesome games for them, but I never had an engineer with them the entire time. I just couldn't make any more progress, no mechanisms, no nothing. I got so frustrated that I wanted to go someplace where I could get a game done. So that's when I went to Chicago Gaming. Those have been strong words. Yeah, well, first it tells me that Deep Root, I love the idea of Deep Root. I love people who are working at Deep Root. I think there's still a smog bank there or a cover, like a smoke. Like, you know, it's like the wonderful world of Oz. Do not look behind the curtain, you know. You see this humongous Oz guy standing up telling, you know, his word is gold. And then behind there is this one guy trying to pull all the levers, trying to make everything work. I can see Robert Mueller doing that right now. Oh, yeah. Listen, brother.
    25:43
    Where is the pin bar? So he kind of throws them saying, and this is not a great look, Bruce and listeners, for Deep Root, because they've recently accepted money from people as pre-orders for Raza. And here, one of their recent designers says, no mechanisms, no nothing. They can't make games. Yeah. Ouch. Now, okay, let's go from the other angle now. They've taken the money. They've closed the order sheet, supposedly, for Raza. Sure. As of the first. So now you would think almost a week into the year, you would know how much you need to order. Yeah, I would think. They should have already had the parts by now if they're really trying to turn them around that quick. Side note. Okay, but even if they're not, how long is it going to take before the first machine is hit? I don't know. How long do people wait before the fire, you know, they start stoking the fire and getting all brimstone and everything like, we got a riot display, you know. That's one of their titles, too. for himself. Yeah, you're going to see it. You're going to see. But how long do you give them? They stuck around forever for the Big Lebowski. People will stay around. But then again, the Big Lebowski, let's not bullshit ourselves. The Big Lebowski is just a little bit higher up on the desire scale than a retro atomic zombie adventure land title. I know. It's just, I don't know why they still, you know, how many, how many orders do you honestly think they sold? Honestly? Yes.
    27:17
    I'm thinking $200. I think $100. If that. So now you have to set up a whole line for 100 to 200 games, max. Yeah. How much wasted time, material... Now your cost is going to go up. You probably were thinking 400 to 500 games you're going to sell. Because then your cost would go down because you're ordering the same part more and more. Like, of course, the pin barn or anything else is going to be the same. But I'm talking about plastics, play field. Oh, yeah. The quantity ordering is where it's at. Yeah.
    27:51
    And we know that these games from a new manufacturer, it's going to be hard for them not to need some work. Yes. So it feels almost like, hey, we've written off Raza. Let's wash our hands of it. We'll make it so that we can lube our gears, if you will. Yeah. And then let's get on to Title II where we really know how to make pinball machines now. That's like the best bet, I would think. You would think that, but if you notice who's not said one word, you've not heard anything from in almost a year. From J-Pop? He's your favorite designer of all time. I do like J-Pop. I know you do. And you have not heard from him since before COVID.
    28:34
    That's true. Is it a gag order? Maybe I'll text him. There you go. I'm going to have Jay Pop. Go kiss fire. Come on. Where's your dad, man?
    28:44
    Man, what happened to Jay Pop? He used to be able to design games. Exactly. Some people say because he doesn't have the engineers that Bally Williams had. That's exactly the reason why. I knew some of the engineers. I still know some of the engineers from Bally Williams. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. As we're going back to the Dennis Nordman story here, What was interesting to me, Bruce, maybe I'm just ignorant because that happens from time to time, as Dennis Creasle, but it sounds like Nordman does a really good job at woodworking and foam core. Foam core. He is the king of foam core. But when it comes to, you know, he talked about, felt like a reliance upon engineers. It is a partnership. Okay. It is a dance when you're manufacturing and designing a pinball machine. You're going to have the play field layout. You're going to have it, but you're going to have some ideas for the mechanisms, but you still need that mechanical engineer who's going to say, okay, it's going to cost this much to make this assembly, or it's going to take this much time to make the assembly, and there's your bomb, and you're going to take away something from the bomb price if you really want to make this assembly this good. So it's a dance. But we have some designers in Pinball, Bruce, that are mechanical engineers. Yes. They might still have a team, but they still know their shit. Yes. And then we have some designers. But it can work both ways because we know that is Keith Elwin a – he's not an engineer by trade, is he? No, no, no. Okay. He just knows – so it can work. He knows pinball better than most in the world. But he's learning. That's the key. Mm-hmm. He wants to learn everything about it. But think about it. He's already doing the rules, doing the play field, doing some of the mechs. Yeah. If it was up to him, if he could program.
    30:39
    He'd be doing it all. He would be the greatest person of all time. No shit. The greatest pinball person of all time. Yeah. And I'm okay with his current role because I like seeing those frequent Keith games. So I'm actually okay with that. And if he did everything, then we'd never see a game. He's great. he's great at what he does, and he's only on his game three. That's the best thing about it. There's still more goodness to come. If you had to pick right now in 2021, Bruce, between a Dennis Nordman design versus a Keith Elwin design, which one would you go? Elwin in a second. See? That's crazy. Well, first thing, it's going to come out. Oh, I see what you did there.
    31:21
    It's going to come out. But second, even if it was – think about it. The best two games that Nordman's known for is either Demolition Man or Whitewater. Both flowy ramp games. Sure. So if you put that up against any one of the three games, let's go top two for, let's just say, Jurassic Park or Avengers. Yeah. There's no contest. It's tough, yeah. Whitewater is a great game, but it's not still. Yeah, it's a bit shallow. I'm not even talking the shallow part. There's a lot of great shots on Whitewater, but it's still not an Elwin game with all the shots that he's giving you in either Jurassic Park or Avengers. Yeah. And the smoothness of it. It's an apples and oranges because that wasn't really the focus back in the 90s, I don't think. No, no. It was location, easy shots, get the ball to do something cool, whereas now the game is going into a basement. It needs to stand the test of time. Okay, so let's go with another one. Aliens. He was mostly, in that interview, he was mostly, the aliens is mostly his. Yeah, he basically claimed that the whole design and layout is him. That thing is a clunk fest. It's a wide body. It's not even that. It's a clunk fest all around.
    32:36
    Yeah, I'm not going to disagree with that. It's still fun, but yeah. Yeah, but still, I'd rather have a great shooting game. We know Norman can do it, though. House of Horrors is a damn fun shooter. But it's not all him. You even heard him say that. The ramps have been taken out. Changes were done. How much do you think really that layout was of his still in that game? I'm thinking 65%, 70%. I'd probably go closer to 85, 90.
    33:07
    I've seen the prototype ramps. That one was cool. When was the last time he made a full game on his own I don know because over at Deep Root those aren going to be probably fully Nordman When was? He didn't do full. Is it Wheel of Fortune?
    33:27
    It may be. It actually may be. Yeah. Do you think this is a good match for American Pinball bringing in Dennis Nordman? Yes. because there at least is no baggage with him like other designers that have been brought on to other companies. Sure, and I do think it's overall a good move. We have to see how much of this that we're hearing is bravado and how much of it is actual abilities. Dennis Norman even, he poked at Multimorphic. He said, quote, Jerry ran out of money to pay me, end quote. I wonder now, was Jerry paying? Like, does Jerry, is Multimorphic separate from P3? Even if it is, I'm sure you can funnel some money into that. Exactly. So he sells a lot of P3 to these other designing companies. Oh, I see what you're saying. So, wait a sec. Maybe, yeah, maybe Jerry didn't see, I don't know. But, you know, that kind of, when I saw that, that was kind of like a red flag. Like, that was a jab that I don't think was all there. Oh, I see. Yeah, that one may backfire on him. Now, he even talked about, so what threw me is, so he's talking about leaving Deep Root and going to Chicago Gaming. And sure, I knew about that, but the pinball public didn't really know about that. So when he said that, people probably that are less into it than we are are probably like, wait a minute, he went to Chicago Gaming? And yeah, he did. He said he's, quote, working with Chris Franchi, or Chris, on a game with Chicago Gaming. So he's got three games from Deep Root that are going to come out. He's got one game from Chicago Gaming, and here he is starting a game with American Pinball. What the hell is he doing with Chicago Gaming? And did that not last? Was that just contract? What is going on? I think it's almost done. He also said in that same interview where when they do release the game, he's allowed to go back and promote it. Okay. So I think that game is going to be close to being done, and it's either going to be before, as we all know, Cactus Canyon is going to be next, or not going to be next. You know, we don't know what the order is going to be, and that's all up to Chicago Gaming, because literally I thought Cactus Canyon should have been out a while ago. One would have thought. I mean, the rumors are, and I think he's a pretty actor, you've got Cactus Canyon remake coming up next. Then you've got an original, it's still licensed theme, from what I'm hearing, but it is a non-remake. But here's the thing, Bruce. I don't think that that is the Nordman game. And then you have Ben Heck in that partnership with Spooky 2. Yeah, that one I don't understand at all, because Heck's saying it's going to be the end of 2021. Are you going by the way Chicago Gaming's putting out games? No way! Yeah, that's not happening. No. You'd be lucky end of 2022, but that's the point. Is Chicago Gaming Company getting out of the remake business? Because they're shoving in all of these games that are non-remakes after the alleged Cactus Canyon. Where are all of these games going to fit? Yeah, they do have a big factory. Yeah, but we haven't seen a remake since Monster Bash LE.
    36:47
    We've seen another run of Medieval Madness, but they've already made those before. They should know how to make those. And it was a small run. Same with Attack from Mars. Well, they did, but they didn't because most of the line was first two runs was at Stern, and only the third run was. But, yeah, I know what you're saying. I don't know why Cactus Canyon has not been out. Maybe it's something to do with being married with Rick. Who knows? Yeah. We all love Rick. No, nothing has to do with Rick. No. Of course not. So, yeah, I... Does the game from Dennis Nordman ever see the light of day from Chicago Gaming?
    37:29
    It depends on what order they have it in. Maybe it's like a back pocket thing. You have this game sitting there ready to go in case you have another issue.
    37:42
    The license run out. If it's a licensed game, that shit runs out. Yeah. Do you think, here's another question. This is going to be a tough one. Do we see a game from Dennis Norman Design at Chicago Gaming first or Deep Root? You know what? Or American Pinball. Which one comes out first? AP. I think, if anything, AP. Okay.
    38:06
    Because Chicago Gaming, we don't know. We know they have plans, and I don't know why there's such a backlog. Deep Root, I can't tell you when because they can't even tell us what their next title is. Yeah. It should be Goonies. I don't get that. It should be Goody's or the Who. That would be the only two titles I would think would be their next one. But you need to get a base of customers who like your product.
    38:28
    AP at least had the manufacturing. They have a new facility. It's bigger. It's better, supposedly. Nordman's kind of a wild card in general, though. Yeah, I don't know if he's that much of a wild card. I just hope he has the chance to maybe retire from there. And what's Franchi doing over at CGC? the guy's been here forever, I don't know what he's we haven't seen anything, maybe he's just he's building he's contracting, and don't get me wrong Chris doesn't want to be a contract player for the rest of his life everyone wants to have a full time gig where you're getting the respect, as he said and the bennies from a real company, instead of being a contract there are two things that are blatantly obvious that Christopher Franchi wants right now. And that's one, to be back at Stern Pinball like no other, and two, that's a Twippy Trophy. Jeez! That poor guy. Bruce, I thought about buying a couple Twippy Trophies and just sending them to him and Christian and saying, will this spare us from hearing this bullshit until next December at least? Jeez. Haneda does not, you know, want to win. Only the K-Man does. Not Haneda. The Henaida don't care. No, because I got snubbed. Oh, yeah. We gave you a shout-out last week. Thank you. That was unbelievable. I didn't see that coming at all. Well, me and Ron talked about it afterwards, and we actually think we pulled votes from both shows.
    40:02
    Yeah, I've run into that too, yeah. Yes. And that's fine. Guess what? I actually want Ron to succeed in Silver Bowl Chronicles. That's why I send them notes all the time. That's why Dennis, in a way, jokingly, when he, you know, David Dennis, when he does his show notes, and he goes, hey, Bruce didn't send us one this week, you know.
    40:25
    Yeah, you can tell that you guys, it's nice support that you guys have over there. And then they got snubbed as well. That was tough. Luger Kid got snubbed. Oh, man. And even EGP. Dude, Dennis Creasel and Tony have kind of been on fire this year at Collective Gamers. I listen to it because I do like video games also. So I listen for both sides of it. It's a great show. It's a tough one. I love Tony. Tony is just down to earth. Here's how it is. I love that about Tony. Yeah, whatever.
    40:59
    And I always try to love Tony, and then he throws me under the bus, and I'm like, okay. Oh, definitely. I love that part of him, too.
    41:08
    Fucking Tony. Back to AP. They put their fourth game on hold. They've got game number five bumped up because it is ready. If you're bumping up stuff that's ready, that doesn't feel licensed to me, but we shall see. Roger Sharp being the. Yeah. So he's licensing like this is a new thing. Roger licenses with a lot of people. Yes, he does. And that's what Dave Fix was like. He was talking about all of the assets that they're going to get and making fun of like Apollo 13 for not having Tom Hanks or Hook for missing. Robin Williams, that was laughable to me. I'm like, Dave, come on. You know better. Because getting Tom Hanks and Robin Williams is the easiest thing to do. Like, come on. Spick said because he has the ace in the hole with licensing. That's Roger Sharp. But don't forget, Roger, and I love Roger. I love his voice. Yeah, who doesn't love Roger? Yeah. But don't forget, he also lets some loopholes go with aliens, supposedly. there was a playing game a little bit with Sigourney Weaver and also with Big Lebowski it's all don't forget I don't know if he dealt with these other companies and maybe they put these loopholes in where they thought they were getting them and they weren't getting them and I don't know the full story behind that all I've heard is just people saying an owner of a company saying one thing where I believe the other person more they didn't want to pay for it we all know that Roger Sharp is about the best that you can get with licensing. Joe Kamikow, about the best you can get with licensing. But they're not the end-all, be-all. So when Dave Fitch, he's the face of this, he's making himself the face of American pinball. Whenever he comes out and says, I've got the ace in the hole in Roger Sharp, you guys better watch out. This unacceptable bullshit, not getting Tom Hanks and Robin Williams. It's like, be careful what you're saying here. Because it may not be as easy as you think. That was a jab. That was a jab to Stern. Sure. When he said later on that he wasn't getting somebody calls from Stern. Yeah. His friends weren't calling him. I don't think the phone's going to be ringing off the hook still. I don't think so. And Nordman even, I feel like Nordman, I like Nordman designs, but are we not dealing with maybe a designer that has passed his prime? I heard him, Bruce, talking about, no, it's not that original themes don't work, but, quote, from what I understand, people think license sell. But then he goes on to talk about how they're just not done right, the original teams. And I'm like, that's a big red flag. I'm waving a red flag at AP saying, no, no, no, no, no. Believe me, licensed games sell. Don't try to get cute, Norman, and think just because you haven't been able to do a Whitewater again. No.
    43:53
    90s are over. Well, if you think about it, if you think about this, the only reason why Williams didn't want to do licensing in the late 90s because first, they got burned on the last batch of licenses they did do because they were hoping for good movies and they were crap. Second, the costs, they were trying to cut costs any which way but loose. Pinball was declining. First thing you cut out is the pricing, and you then steer a little bit away from it, like Medieval Madness being really Monty Python and the Holy Grail. You know, the Gophers being Cat is Shack. That was their way of getting around it. And we know that the licensing deals and intellectual property attainment is a shitload different back in the 90s as it is in the 2020s. It just is. It's harder to obtain. All of these actors, listeners, singers, actors, they all have their own deals now. Before, they could be just lumped into the ownership of that film studio a lot of times. Next generation, perfect example. Exactly. That's why you can get all of those assets because it's the property of that studio. Whereas now, you want Star-Lord in your game, you're going to have to pay for just visually seeing Chris Pratt on that LCD screen, and then you're going to actually have to pay to hear his voice, even if it's not a custom call-out. Yep. So it's all different now. So I just feel like Dave Fix and Nordman here get lost in the weeds with, back in our day, that's what we need to do. It's like, well, times have changed, though. Yeah. I agree, totally. Yeah. But at least somebody gets a job out of this. Or gets offered a job. No shit. That's a good point. Yeah, Franchi gets pitched a job live on the air from Dave Fix. And we know that Franchi's trying to get in with Stern. He's working with Chicago Gaming. I'm like, what is going on here? Yeah. How do you feel about this? Dave Fix claims that AP, quote, uses 100% Williams parts.
    45:52
    I don't know how that's even possible. I think he was saying his was mechanical assemblies. Okay. That's where I would say his 100% parts. Are we talking like flippers, rail guides? Flip barbers. Not even rail guides. I'm talking more like pop bumpers. Okay. Flipper assemblies. Well, when he said 100%, I was like, no. Even targets. Those things I can see being Williams. Ramps, of course, they're going to be custom made. Yeah, ramps custom made. You've got mechanisms that are going to be custom. Joe Balser did those stand-up targets that are really skinny. Those are proprietary. Those aren't Williams parts. Exactly. But I think he was talking about the main assemblies. What, the flippers? Because when they went later on about the flipper assemblies, they bashed, of course, the ones from Highway Pinball, which were terrible. Sure, sure. And that's where they were talking about. They went to the flipper assemblies. And I think that's what they're talking about, flipper assemblies, pop bumpers, and main mechanisms. that are used on every game. Okay. Because they're reliable. The parts are cheaper. The parts are easy to access because Pinball Life makes them and a couple other companies make them. It's a weird statement, though, because we know the cabinet is not a Williams thing. We know that the boards are P-Rock. We know, like, it's weird. Yeah, it was a very weird statement, but I think he was talking mostly about assemblies. Okay. But other than that, no, there's nothing in Williams unless they're planning on changing and going backwards, which, of course, they're not. Other odd stuff that I picked up on, just as a dealer, you know, we're still selling Houdini. We're selling Oktoberfest. We're selling Hot Wheels. Dave Fix says, regarding Houdini, quote, there's definitely something wrong with Houdini. And then he was sitting on Oktoberfest artwork, and I'm like, hey, Dave, newsflash, we're still selling these games. But the problem is, Dave owns these games. Okay. He was routing these games, and he saw the issues. Sure. When you go, they're at Pocketeer, all three of the games that, you know, that American Pinball sells. Yeah. And he knows that there was, and he actually talks about the Oktoberfest issue with the barrel shot. Yeah, with a coil stop. But we all know about the problem with Houdini, though. Yeah, the power supply stuff, too.
    48:11
    And look, I'm not, I like Dave, me and him are buddies, I get that. I'm not condemning the guy, but you're coming in. You have the voice of an entire company. It's your second week at a job. You're being this harsh. I don't think it's the look that I would have went with. And sure, I don't, Bruce, I don't like the Oktoberfest artwork. And I'm not going to lie and say I do like it. But I'm not going to come out. I mean, I'm a podcaster, and I know I'm not going to come out being the voice of a company and say all the things that are wrong that they were sitting on the cabinet, like the side head design. Nordman called it useless wings. It's just I don't like any of that. No. Hey, but don't forget, you podcasters that are older than five years and have been around, you mean nothing. I didn't know if we were going there. Oh, we're going there, baby. You got Bruce on there. Oh, boy. You got Haneda. Haneda's going to bring it all up. Oh, Bruce Neda. So you're right. So Dave Fix, he starts shitting on podcasters and reviewers with less than five years experience. He told podcasters, quote, you've got to put your time in the trenches, boys. Do your research and get your facts right. I had to say it in that voice. I don't know why. Just because it felt like somebody told me to get off his lunch. He and Ron aren't affected. We're good. I know. I thought of you guys, too. Fucking slam-tube guys are fine But no It was totally I think it was a bash, not to every podcaster It was to one in particular Listeners here know I get tired Of this lumping Oh, I agree It gets old whenever somebody doesn't want to say a name So they just say pinball media Under five It's like, well, be careful Because you have now lumped everybody into that. And I'm in that. There's a lot of great podcasters out there. The problem was he should have just called out the one that he was talking about. And we all know who it was.
    50:18
    I'm not convinced that he was just talking about one person. Really? So you took it as a... I think he'd be going after you guys, though. Because you really have not... How does one know? True. I agree. He should have singled out somebody. But I understand why he didn't single out somebody. I get it. You just don't say it because here we are. Here we are where, you know, I'll pat my own back a little bit. I put in a lot of fucking time for media and to help entertain and inform people. You actually have sold more machines than he has. And so much so that the first thing I thought of, honestly, and maybe this is a selfish thing, I thought, man, I went out of my way with Greg Bone for Straight Down the Middle to do what they're terming it, first impressions, for Hot Wheels. And I know it helped expose that game, and it helped hype that game, and people purchased because they were excited about that game. So when they say somebody less than five years experience, check, that's me. Somebody that does first impressions, check, that's me. And I know that it helped them. That initially was a little hurtful. But if you notice, when he did talk about it, and I know a lot of you guys, the podcasters, I didn't take it personally because, as I said, we haven't wrapped it up. Some of us are oversensitive, Bruce. No, but the thing is this. He did say that this guy only has one or two games at his house. Okay. And he didn't. So he was singling out a little bit. Even if I know that to be the case, I don't know that the 1,000 to 2,000 listeners understood that. Oh, no, I totally agree with that. I think it just left a bad taste. I don't think you'll be getting a lot of interviews from a lot of other podcasters. I think maybe Chris and Dr. Penn will be the only two. I will be interviewing them besides maybe me and Ron because we weren't insulted. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Yeah, and I don't think this is necessarily a Dave thing, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth. and then hearing the guys. Oh, you're not the only one. I've heard it from a lot of, I've actually heard it from people halfway around the world. Boy, and they were talking about these podcasters are going to be listening to the Super Awesome Show and they're going to be reporting on this. Then Francie and Christian are laughing. They're dropping the burn thing. The next day, they're putting up something on social media that says we're the podcaster that brings you the exclusives. Everybody else just reports on us. It's getting a little heavy. Oh, so this is a little chappy. I like this. It's getting, it's just, it's wearing thin for some people. For me, it doesn't, but. And don't wear it for other people at all. Oh, sure, sure, sure. I get that. That's why, honestly, me and Ron, we buzz balls. We honestly, we do this for fun. We know we're never going to be the best one. It's hard not to take personal. I think whenever you put some time in. You put more time in. You get to hear this. Other people from TPN that I know who are behind the scenes put so much time in. I like to celebrate everybody. It's like every time he's like, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. Oh, David Dennis is killing it right now. He's my A pupil right now. He's shining. And he does a lot for, you know, that people don't see. You know, yes, he's part, half part of a great show of Solar Ball Chronicles, but he's also doing a ton of stuff behind the scenes. He's pouring in. It's all for the good of pinball. That's what I think a lot of people forget. Me and Ron, the only thing maybe we've done, probably some people say positive and some people say negative, is increase the price of certain electronic pinball machines. That's no shit. But, you know, me and Ron do this for fun. The day it does not become fun, we're going to stop. And you got busy there for a while. You had to take a break. Yes, we did. And guess what? But now it's, you know, me and Ron have lives besides this. For you and for other people, it's your livelihood. Oh, yeah. A lot of what he's doing. So guess what? If somebody's got to have a problem with it, pardon my French, F off. Yeah. I'm still happy that doing videos and podcasts is still fun to me because people know me. I wouldn't do this shit if it wasn't a passion and fun for me, even if I had a business. It's just not worth it. Think about it. Three-quarters of the places that sell pinball machines don't do what you're doing. Yeah. And it probably shows in their numbers. And I love that they don't. Thank you, guys. Exactly. Thank you.
    54:56
    It's common sense. What you put into it is what you get out most of the time. Don't tell them that. No. I'm sorry. It was an interesting interview. How do you even talk poorly about the GNR release? Everybody's hailing that as a damn great pin. And he finds a way. He said that, yeah, the reveal helps sell a lot of games, but then people play it and it doesn't feel the same. Ouch.
    55:22
    He's going for it. Honestly, that is the – I actually – here, I'm going to go through the whole story of my J.J.P. experiences. I was in on Wizard of Oz original, the Emerald Edition. Waited so long, got out of it. Was in on Hobbit, saw the design, got out of it. pre-ordered, dialed in, and then when it took so long, got out of it. The only pin I would think about right now is GNR because I've played two and I like the way it plays. Okay. I don't like the music so much, but as Ron will say, I sing along with it all the time. The problem is it's still not coming out as fast. Yeah. The person who just got their GNR was day one order. He just got it. There's still plenty of day one orders that we have a list on, yeah. I know they're having a problem right now, but you probably have more day one orders of the regular, the middle edition, the limited edition, than the CEs. And now they're going to run the CEs. Oh, they've got more of a back order for LAs than they do CEs and Sanders combined. Exactly. So why did you now, because you listened to one idiot who complains about it every time he's on a show. I'm glad that they're running them all at once, but, man, they have got to get back to those LEs fast. Exactly. You're going to lose orders. We've lost two this week. Yeah. And that's a shame for you. And just guess what? Your new place in Chicago is really big. Yeah. Stop. You've already got those. Think about it. These people with the 500 orders for the CEs are probably not going to jump out. And if you don't know, because we know what we sell that spot, we know what that spot's worth right now. Exactly. So why go build them now? Because one podcaster keeps on complaining about it every time. The ear and the mouth of the industry. Yeah, I don't think they give two shits about Canada. Oh, they don't. They give two shits because what he does, he stirs the pot. Oh, yeah. And what happens when he stirs the pot? He gets these owners emailing. Oh, believe me. And the distributors. Oh, I get those emails every single day. And then what do the distributors do? They're going to turn around and complain to them. Yeah, because we don't know. And so now they think there's a major problem where they think they're going to lose sales. You're not going to lose sales on the CE. Part of me just thinks they want to get the damn CE out. Here's some breaking news here. How about this? I don't think anybody's talked about this. Jersey Jack Pinball is no longer, listener, taking orders for Guns N' Roses Standard Edition. That's big news. Holy shit. One of the things, maybe it costs too much money for the parts. They can't get the break for the bomb. That's what I'm getting. Make that machine what it is. That was surprising when I got that email. I thought, what do you mean you're not taking it? Like, what? Now, that doesn't mean that they won't produce them again in the future. But at this time, they're not taking orders anymore from dealers or direct or the standard model. Maybe that's good for the LE people because they realize there's such a backlog. Yeah. I want to, honestly, I want to play an Essie because if I was going to buy one, honestly, the whole left-hand side ramp assembly for the upper play field is useless.
    58:38
    That's strong. It is. Once in a while, you're going to hit up there, it's going to up kick, and then you're going to come down the slide and go to your physical left. Yeah, but a six ball physical ball lock is pretty fucking cool. No, I don't mind that part of it. I'm talking about the left-hand side. Oh, I got you. With the base ramp strings. That's totally useless. What you could have made is had a whole upper play field without the up kick. Okay. And then just made that upper play field be alone. It would have been less of a bomb. Not many people are hitting it. I love the guitar part. Yeah, that looks good. I don't need the other half, the rails, the feet. You just got to have those hot rails, Bruce. Those lights. You don't get that in the standard. I know that. You just get the white. I do like, I think the game probably plays a little faster. Oh, yeah. You're right. Yeah. And I never played one, and that's what I like to see. Just like I have not played an Avengers Pro Edition. I'd love to play one of those. Yeah, that's a beautifully shooting game. That's a good one. I've heard a lot from Dave Fix at this point. And at this point, it's like a Robert Mueller. I just got to see it first. I need to see it at this point. I have to agree. What I need to see, like they talked about the sound. I think they have to not worry. The sound, we're fine. I think the problem is the animations. Yeah. They need a better animation department because that's their weakest link in AP. Well, it sounds like they're going new artists as well. Yeah, which would be good. But at least they're producing pinball machines, so they're one step up on DeepRoot. Yep, and they do a lot of things well. That is a tank that they can build. They build a good machine. They do build a good machine. Playfield is good. You can't be bashing your product that you still can sell. You can't be bashing people who can make your product better by advertising it for you for free. Yes, and you cannot bash every other manufacturer or it will come to bite you in the ass. Especially in the future, say, if you're not at AP anymore. Speaking of manufacturers, Stern Pinball just released new code for Stranger Things, version 1.02, with some rather significant rule changes. They added a Demogorgon bomb rule and a swipeable rule. Okay, so why do you need a Demogorgon bar rule? Why would you need to kill the Demogorgon bar rule? Why would you? Oh, gross. You can't get it in the mouth. I can get it in the mouth just fine. I know.
    61:01
    Put my balls right in the mouth. It's fine. You may be right. This rule allows the player to kill the Demogorgon when available by just pressing that action button lockdown bar. This feature is available once per game. It feels kind of like a walker bomb to me. Yes, it is a walker bomb. But not as impactful because walker bombs can resurrect a multiball for you. Yes, they can. But here's the funny thing is, if you have this – who's doing the rules for Stranger Things? A team. Okay, hold on. You go there. A team.
    61:34
    It's even hard for you to say, isn't it? Oh, Lonnie Robb, baby. Yeah, and who did he steal it from? Hey, Vinacore's helping a little bit. Brian Eddy's helping a little bit. He's coated by clay. Hey, that rule sets great, damn it. Oh, God, it's a copy and paste.
    61:53
    It has some resemblance, okay. Some resemblance? Somebody on Pinside posted a thing where it's one mode equals another thing in AFM, and it went to the T.
    62:05
    The first thing that they changed now is the new Walker Bomb rule because AFM doesn't have a push button in the middle. Well, because it doesn't, yeah, the UFO you can defeat pretty easy. Yeah. Okay, I'll give you that one. Whatever. What about the swipe-a-ball? So if you have balls locked on the back wall there on the premium LE, if you need one, boom, you just press the action button, it'll drop a ball for you. I don't know why they even try to even do that. I like that idea. That's cool. I like the idea. So you can get the instant multi-ball, but it says during, let's see, a release the like. Multi-ball event and the snowball dance. Yeah, a multi-ball event. So I don't know what that means. During a multi-ball event. Maybe if you have a two-ball. Is there a two-ball multi-ball in that? Yeah, there's a, two-ball is second stage of the Demogorgon modes. Yeah, so if you're in that, maybe you can. But besides that though, like the telekinesis is your other big multi-balls. I don't know. And you would get those. I have to play it. I admit I have not downloaded it yet because I can't ever figure that shit out. Your favorite game? I love Stranger Things. Oh, God. You know what? If I was given a choice, Bruce, give me Stranger Things over any other Stern release this year. How about that? Oh, my God. I know good games, though. You've been drinking the Kool-Aid way too much. I love good games. How does your wife put up with you? Oh, she doesn't.
    63:30
    I'm with you on that. She's a poor thing. No, that game, that's some goodness there. And people are starting to realize that it's great, and they're starting to come back. And look, it's tough whenever you're like me, Bruce, and when you touch a game for the first time, you know if it's going to be good or bad. And then you see all these people start coming to the gates, and they're like, oh, I want to play this too. This game is great. And I'm like, come on in, guys. Hobbit is great. We've waited for you. No, it's not. Oh, my God. It's the worst effing game by JJP ever. Wizard of Oz is better. Wizard of Oz is a horrible game. Unless you don't like how a pinball machine shoots. If you don't care, then yeah, Wizard of Oz is great. At least my third flipper on Wizard of Oz can do something. What, hit a witch? What does your third flipper do on Hobbit? Nothing. Kills a dragon out of the sky for one of the greatest pinball moments of all time. It does not. It's terrible. Your Wizard of Oz has got two shots up the middle. Thanks, Joe. No, it hasn't. It has a one shot. A buck and a ramp. You've got to hit the side thing. Yeah, because I love hitting through the pod bumpers on the wide body.
    64:42
    And that right orbit, nothing satisfying about that. I love that right orbit. Nothing satisfying. And then what is the bass toy in there? It's like a stand-up target for the witch. That's very satisfying. And then you go up to the upper play field for the one side, or you go the other way with spinning house, and use your other flipper to loop it. Yeah, those are cool. Yes, but unfortunately, Hobbit, with the drop targets of death, that clunk. When your game gets drowned out by drop target sounds, that's bad. I will admit, when people come over and play, they're like, is this supposed to be doing that? I'm like, yeah.
    65:17
    They're individually controlled drop targets. That's pretty cool innovation there. Oh, it's great innovation. It was mastered in the 80s by all these other pinball companies that actually made it work and didn't make it sound like the clunky mess of clunkiness and still has not used since that great innovation. Really debating Wizard of Oz over fucking Hobbit. Yes. How about your outlanes there? Wizard of Oz, can we figure out how to design actual outlanes that don't feel like complete ass? Wait a minute, who designed those outlanes? Oh, that's right. Dennis Nordman. We're going to bring it all back and post it on our wall.
    65:50
    Yeah, like a pop bumper that never gets out and always messes up the place. No. Toto. Good for you, Toto. I just want normal outlanes. It's like any other game. You don't even get a chance. And Hobbit? It's just multi-ball, multi-ball, multi-ball, multi-ball, multi-ball. No. Oh, wait a second. Let's start another multi-ball. No, it's traditional. It's good feel. And it's got a controllable kickback that's integrated into modes. Thanks. The fucking fair balloon.
    66:18
    I'm going to drain air. And that kickback, does he use that since? Yeah, he did use it in GNR, but not control. Yeah, but not control. Yeah, not control. No so see all these innovations that were great for Hobbit have not made the cut in any of his future games A talking dragon Come on Oh that dragon was terrible in the beginning You've got a musky-faced witch that comes up.
    66:41
    There's badness on both sides. There sure is. I did like the fiber optic for the crystal ball. That's great. When it works. When it works, I would just say the same thing. It is a very clunky, breakable thing. And hopefully those RGBs aren't pre-2.0 system. Oh, yes, because five volts instead of 6.5.
    67:03
    That's the repair side. You're talking my language, and I guarantee you were dealing with a lot of that when you were selling them. Yeah, I don't want any part of that.
    67:13
    Not at all. That was like Pirates of the Caribbean. I had some issues, and I'm like, oh, man. Oh, they were terrible when they first came out. And now it's like the oh my god game. Why? It's not a good game.
    67:27
    Why are you? It's terrible. Oh my god, you J.J.P. hater. What saves that game is the rules. What does not save that game is the flow, the shots, and I'm going to go pre-sale on you, the wide body. Even though everyone says that's the most fun wide body. It's one of the best wide bodies of all time. It's not. Oh, you got spinners, you got inner loop. I think Spai is a better wide body than that.
    67:53
    Definitely not, but you're a classic guy. I can see it. Okay, let's go newer. Don't call me Demoman. That's not even a wide body. No, no, no. In the net is Popeye. Popeye is the worst wide body. Oh, my baby. My baby Popeye. Yeah. She's out there right now turning her nose up at you for saying that. Oh, blow me. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
    68:14
    That's one of the only people that does blow Popeye game. It's another great game. Actually, I don't mind the shots in Popeye. Holy shit. You can see him. Oh, my God. I feel like this. People crying because they can't see the fucking shots. Guess what, guys? You know, that's my biggest complaint, Bruce. Listener, if you don't like Popeye because you can't see the shots, newsflash. Guess what's fucking under there? Hot bumpers that you don't need to see and two scoops. Two scoops? Guess what, guys? You need to know. Those scoops don't move. It's just a little secret. So once you learn where they're at, they don't move. It's fine. You're not covering anything. It's like playing pinball pool from Chicago Coin in the early 70s with the pinball theme, where it was half covered up by fake pinballs. It didn't catch on. They didn't make another game like that until Popeye. That's probably why you don't like Pirates of the Caribbean either. It's probably why you don't like Game of Thrones. It's probably why you're shitting on all these awesome games. Game of Thrones, I like the pro. I've owned a premium. It sucked. I love the premium, the pro. Eh, boring. Pro is fast. Fast, good shots. You don't like upper play fields. You just took away Game of Thrones, which is one of the best upper play fields. I talked about Wizard of Oz play field, the upper play field. Those are really good. I talked about the GNR play field. You didn't have the side. If you didn't have the rails on the side. Okay. And then what was the other one that you didn't like? There's another one. Oh, you like Family Guy upper play field. That sucks. The game's horrible. So you must hate the Munsters play field. I do not like the Munsters play field. That's why I go pro on that game. I actually think that's one of the best parts about that game. because you can actually add multiple falls in the lower play field. It's unique. It's the best gimmick of all. It's unique, but it doesn't feel good. There's nothing that feels good there. The mechanics were back from 2007. You know what they did? Let's take these parts off the shelf, put them in a 2018 game, and do nothing. Yeah, that's true. What was the other upper play field you were just sitting on? I'm like, man, that's one of my favorite. Popeye! The upper play field is fantastic. Oh, it's sort of difficult. Love it. Okay, now I'm going to go with the Ron theory with you. Oh, man. Do you consider Medusa at upper playfield?
    70:19
    No. Okay. Do you consider Grand Lizard at upper playfield? No, they're split playfields. Well, Grand Lizard isn't. Grand Lizard goes under a portion of it, doesn't it? I think it does. Nope, it's still straight. Okay, so split. Like Black Knight 2000 is, to me, that is an upper play field. The most moving upper play field there is. But guess what? It works. But, yeah, the ball on the main play field does go under that upper play field. Now, if there's a split like Flash Gordon, no, that's not an upper play field to me. Really? No. Oh, my God. Flash Gordon's definitely an upper play field. No, because it's just a divided play field, split play field. You've got the same real estate whether you squish that upper play field down or not. But you still have three grams getting to it. Sure. sure I think it's a it's not an upper play field it's an upper play field oh god is it a fan layout shit I got some heat on that one for Avengers we won't go into there oh when the fuck do we leave man I could talk to you forever alright we left off at Stern Pinball and your shitty opinions in Pinball okay oh yeah your shitty opinions about Stranger Things I'm telling you man that game is great what's that oh and all the innovation And I am a Brian Eddy. I've owned every Brian Eddy game. I've owned Shadow. I've owned Indiana Jones. I consider Indiana Jones. Oh, really? You consider that a Brian? Yeah. Because he helped with the code and stuff? Okay. He did most of the code. Yeah. I've owned, you know. Mark Ritchie right now is like, fuck you, Bruce. He partially knows rules. I don't have enough time on full show. Oh, I love Black Rose. See? So. I love Black Rose. And I cannot get into Stranger Things. I was such a disappointment. I like Stranger Things, the theme. Do you like the film? It's pretty good on it. Marty and Brian C. agree with me. Well, they're wrong, too. That's unfortunate. No, no, no, no. That's unfortunate. Me and Marty like a lot of the same things. Never tell an Australian that they're wrong. You should know that better than anybody. I know. You can call them a cunt before you can call them wrong. You're good. I love them. I love every Australian. God. They are the best. Now, production updates, if we're talking Stern Pinball production updates, we've got Zeppelin Pros that are actually being made this week, listener. Yes, they were on a two-week hiatus for their inventory and manufacturing floor updates that they do every year. Yeah, we've got LEs to follow. All of the LEs are going to be made after this run of Pros, and then they're going to start on the premiums in February. Okay, so LE, you're in for one, I'm assuming? Yeah, it took the place of my Avengers LE. Yes, which is a bad pick. No.
    73:04
    Look, I'm not an accountant. When I play pinball, I don't like doing math and carrying over and stacking this and putting this gym. No. It's just right now, and I love Ray Day. I love Elwin. I love Nagel. I love them all. But it's not working for me. Just not. I think they need to have... Pinball moments? Yeah, that. No, I think maybe they almost do like what they did back in the Segas in the early 90s. Original rules or easy rules. Oh, fuck off. I don't need easy rules, but I just, whatever. Where are the moments in that game? Where are my modes that feel good? There is none because the animation stinks and the sounds stink in that game. Okay. The shots are great. The shot and the play field feel is great. The animations, Marty and Ryan were talking about it a couple days ago, and I was laughing about it on their podcast, where it's really just a still shot of it being moved along in the play field, on the back, on the display. And I like that artwork, but, yeah, They're a little static.
    74:03
    It's all static. And they do have that one mode that is a moment where you get so many flips. Yeah, which is the mini-miss mode. I like that, but it's too much, Bruce. I don't like, hey, I've captured this gem. I know the competitive players probably love it, and I love that there are games each and every year that they can rely on for them. So I'm not shitting on it. I'm just saying it's just not. It's deep. It's actually too deep. but a common player. Yeah. And when my Zach from my show is saying, I can't understand the rules somewhat. Then there you go, right there. And Zach loves deep rules. He loves Star Wars for that. Yeah, he's a walking brain. Yes. He is. No, I need moments, and I think Led Zeppelin is going to give me more of the moments. But having said that, I don't know if it'll wear thin or not. We'll see. Right now, I've got shooting the hell out of the pro, and I'm enjoying that. It is a longer ball time, though. I'm worried about that. Oh. Open up that lane. It's almost as bad as GNR. Maybe open up the other lane. GNR isn't the worst. GNR still kind of kicks me in the balls, though. Oh, my God. No way. Yeah, I don't. Man, the feel of a JJP is just not the same. Like, I can juggle balls on a stern, but on a JJP, I feel like I've got a limp dick, dude. I can't work anything. Everything's floppy. I'm like, come on, stiffen up. Get a little more power. You just got to increase the flip-flopper power. You have to increase the flip-flopper power. I've done it. I'm so used to sterns. Oh, I agree. Stern is the best feel. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think they've perfected it. But the problem with JJP is it's like, yes, I'm flipping along, and I'm trying to get all these goals for all six members, and oh, wait a second, I just got a multi-ball. Oh, I just got another one. Why? Admit it. Why? The filler multiballs, you know. They're way too many.
    76:00
    The multiballs for the songs are needed, and they're perfection. Yes. They can't cut those. The end of song modes are terrible. End of song modes. The end of album modes. Oh, the mini wizards. Yes, they are terrible. They'll get fleshed out a little bit. That one, can we play a game? That is pretty cool. Yes. I'm actually enjoying J.J.P. more than anything else this year. That is my game of the year right now. Whoa, we're going to talk about that here soon. If we're talking about Jersey Jacks, we did talk about the Guns N' Roses CEs are now on the line. They are going in the boxes. All 500 are going to be produced throughout January and February. Congratulations, Pete. Yeah, Bruce and I were talking about they need to get back to those LEs. LEs, oh my God. So we've talked about your love and hate for GNR. And then as a reminder to the listeners, straight down the middle just dropped a Willy Wonka pinball review on YouTube, so check that out. Please tell me you like Willy Wonka because it is one of the greatest Jersey Jacks ever made and one of the greatest pinball machines of the 2020s, 2010 decade. Yeah, you heard it. And on the next story.
    77:11
    No, it's terrible. What? How? That's fucking terrible. There's two shots. Two shots? It's one of the best layouts of Pat Lawler's career. Three shots. One to the upper left in gobstop. Oh, you're so wrong. One to the upper right, so you can feed the upper right flipper to get the one-point. That's what you're doing. No. There's so much more to that. This is a Bruce Nightingale game. If you want to play a competitive game, those are the three shots you have to only worry about. Oh, I thought we were enjoying pinball. You were talking about chasing points. No, no, because the problem is I can't even enjoy that pinball machine because it's not fun. They could have done so much more with that game. That game is a blast. No, it is not. Maybe a better shooting Pat Lawler. The only thing good about, and I'm going to say this about JJP, and I've said it on our show, having the second display on the play field. Yeah, that seven-inch in the back, yeah. Oh, my God. That's how I learned how to play that game because it's telling you, really, it's literally telling you what to do. They are a bit difficult to understand. I get that. But it's a fun game if you know what you're doing. The problem with that game is most people who come up to it like the look. Yeah, it's pretty. Love it, the theme, everything like that, until they play it. The one that we have local, it's a dog. A dog? It's a dog. Bruce, you love spinner shots. It has one of the greatest spinner shots in the last ten years. No, it hasn't. bullshit. It hasn't. Left ramp diverts it off onto the magnet. Third top left flipper. Rip-a-bip-a-bip-a-bip-a-bip-a-bop-bop. Oh. The sound's not even good. That's the problem. You're making the sound. The sounds are great. It's not that good when you actually play the game. You love hearing the old man talk. Man, jackpot.
    79:06
    We love it. The ramps are slowly... No, there's a lot better shots for spinners. In the last 10 years? Yes.
    79:14
    Okay. This is going to be so easy. It's not even a fight with you, but it's so easy. Go ahead. 2012 Metallica Premium LE. When you hit the orbit, what's the sound? Oh, so you're talking sound. I'm talking about the sound and feel. Yeah, Metallica's not there. It's a little bitty John Board offset spinner that's not that great. It sounds great. And it helps you with points. Sure. The other game is, oh, you gave me a chocolate bar. Oh, yay. Oh, man, you get two times Wonka bars going, and they hit it. You get spins for those Wonka bars. And what do the Wonka bars get you at the end? Squat for bonus. Huge bonus. Like all of JJPs. It's a bonus. I would be hard-pressed to name five better spinner shots since 2010. That's a lot of games. But I'll wait here at the gates for all of you listeners to continue shitting on Wonka and then realizing how wrong you were. And, look, we've got a list going. You can join us at the club. Is that still in production? No. No, it's not.
    80:20
    It's gone. The CEs, there's still some CEs left. Yes, there is. I know there is. I think they used the last of the CE parts, what, six months ago, I think, or five months ago. Yeah, my dumb ass is thinking about buying one too. Oh, my God. I miss my LE, man. I miss it. One of the greatest themes ever in pinball, it shines. The greatest themes that they missed out on. They still have, I've heard, this is only from my side, that they have more assets.
    80:49
    And they just never went back to it. Okay. They have more stuff that they had available to them, and to them, they've already written it off. We'll never see another thing from that. Hey, that's what happened to Pirates. That's what happened to Hobbit. That's fine. They're all greatness. you all can have your Wizard of Oz and Dialed In I like Walkman because it even shoots better than Dialed In and actually has a great theme it's awesome Ron Hallett right now is like nope you're wrong Dialed In is the best no I actually prefer honestly the best one so far is Guns N' Roses I think a lot of people agree with you there If they just make it less multi-ball-y. Like, I'm going over an in-lane, and I'm getting more.
    81:41
    That's bad. You're right. In-lane, multi-ball. Yes, it's in-lane. Oh, my God. But other than that, I think that's the best shooter. Other than all that, you know. Eric's shots are incredible. I guarantee you, listener, within the next five years, Bruce will own a Willy Wonka, and he's going to pull out. I will put money up right now. I love it. But I do have one of the new games out there, and that's my Rick and Morty. Oh, yeah. You know what? Everyone says that plays like dog crap, and I love it. Thank you. I'm with you there. Let's segue into talking about Rick and Morty and the Pinball Industry Awards. Now, as an update, listener, all voting has been closed, and the Pinball Industry Awards Committee, very happy with the response thus far. We ended up getting 40 media panel members that did participate. The co-host here was one of them. Yes, I was. I was very lucky. I put my name in, and I was approved, and I'm very grateful for that, and thank you. Absolutely. And it will be well-received from the community that was worrying about us. TPM, bullshit, bullshit. And here's another thing. I didn't get to vote on my own topics. That's what I want all the people to know. Oh, okay. That's a good point. People don't know that. I was not allowed to vote on podcasts or streaming. I was mostly voting on the other stuff that does not affect me. Objective, main game, appreciation for the shares. And that's what I want people to know because I don't think people will know that unless they hear it from the person who voted. Absolutely. And we are happy to report that 65% of the judges for that media panel actually came outside of TPN. So the large majority were non-TPN media. So I think that's good representation. And for my brainchild of the Pinball Machine Hall of Fame, over 300 entries from all of you listeners and fans of pinball submitted their votes for that to see who's going to be inducted into the 2020 class of the Pinball Machine Hall of Fame. And I have a question about that. Is it just going to be the top one game? Or is it going to be if you've gotten so many responses that are close, like a one and two? No, we are going to do one entry from each of the eras. I didn't know it was going to be like a surprise. There's a couple close ones, but they're just going to have to wait and see if they're going to make it next year. That's cool.
    84:09
    The teaser is Lord of the Rings slayed everything in the 2000s. But everything else was super close.
    84:17
    And I know that the Poor Men's Pinball Podcast made a run for all their listeners to vote for Laser War, but we'll have to wait and see. I wouldn't think so. There's a lot better games in the 80s. Oh, they're trying to make that push there. So, yeah, we've got a lot of that reminder to tune into the ceremony on January 28th at 8 p.m. Central at youtube.com slash the pinball network. So, overall, Bruce, the process of voting and being a part of that judging panel was satisfactory to you? Very easy, very straightforward. It took, you know, literally 15 minutes. Most of my selections were thoughtful, but honestly relatively easy. Yeah, it was. And I did like also that you broke it down when voting on a game that had an SE or an LE premium. Oh, yeah, when there's differences in, like, the artwork. Yes, and that was nice that you actually did break that down better. Well, that and I thought it was kind of fun that for artwork, it's not just artwork. It's artwork of the cabinet back glass and artwork on the play field because those can differ so much. Oh, yes, it can. And has.
    85:23
    Absolutely. And then some of the rules are different on some of the different trim levels. So we try to be as detail-oriented as we can. Now, Bruce, we got a lot of shit whenever we opened. And we knew we would for the Pinball Industry Awards because the Twippies is great and it's fun to watch. I have nothing wrong with Jeff's Twippies at all. His Twippy is great. I love Jeff's Twippy. It's sexy. That's right. He's got a sexy-ass Twippy. So it wasn't a big deal to you? No, no. Honestly, I do like that it's not a – I'm going to go into a little bit of this, especially on our podcast we're going to, where we got snubbed. And it wasn't – we didn't ask people for it. But it is a popularity contest. And guess what? Out of the 10 that are in there, most of them are only a year or two old. Yeah. But are they going to be around in five years from now? Probably not. That's a good point. We're going to be doing this, and we're going to be still telling you how our feel is. I'd rather have 1,400 or 1,500 people who are good who are listening to us for us than 2,500 that are just casually BS.
    86:31
    I'm with you there, man. And you've got some of the greatest listeners and followers in all of pinball. People love the Slam Tilt podcast. That's why I was shocked by it. Here's what I worry about, though, Bruce. And I think that Jeff and the committee over there are going to have to be very careful. Now, when they hear me speaking on this, I know they get their dander up because they're like, this asshole wasn't part of it anymore. So I get it, but I'm trying to just, I'm truly trying to see the Twiffies grow because I still feel like I'm a bit of a part of it. I want to see that thing go to college. What I worry about is it feels like this year we have turned into not just a popularity contest. I feel like we're now some of these, especially the content creators. I don't see manufacturers do it. Some of the content creators are reaching past asking mom or dad or spouse. Now we're looking into sending out mass emails from Cointaker as a sponsor. And Cointaker is a sponsor. I'm not going to beat around the bush. Are you talking about all the spam emails that you should be voting for me? This is a super awesome pinball show. I had Cointaker, because they're a sponsor of their show, mass email all of their customers saying vote for Franchise Podcast. The big problem I have here, listener, is Cointaker is an official sponsor of the Twippies. It's not a good look having one of your official sponsors specify one certain recipient for all of their votes. It's getting messy. So when you do that and – Or other places, other people in the top ten also did the same thing. Absolutely. It wasn't just super awesome. I get that. No, it wasn't that. And that was annoying where I was sitting there going – I don't like that. No, guess what? My, let's say, 26 episodes we do out a year should be the only thing that matters. I agree. Not how much my marketing is, how much my plugging is. I understand it works. Some of it is sitting out of hand. Like, I think it's, you know, you get that gray line. What the fuck are we trying to do? Are we trying to truly measure the most popular? Because that's fine. That's what a people's choice award does. No, no, it's stick measuring, unfortunately. It's, hey, look, my clock's bigger than your clock. Hey, yay!
    88:51
    It is. It's a sword fight. Oh, my God. It's the truth, because you know it. It gets a little far out there when you're, you know, people that you know don't get into pinball. If you do not plug it, I have more respect for. Yeah, you're losing the integrity of what you're trying to measure. That's just from a scientific approach. You're just losing what you're trying to measure in actual the people's voice. Because I don't interpret a people in this vote as a non-pinball person. If you haven't seen a stream or heard a podcast or anything like that, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm just being hoity-toity here. I don't think you should be voting. Thank you. I just don't. I don't think it's good representation. There should be questions in there, like almost like the gotcha things. Okay, can you name this? Can you say this about something that you maybe know about? And Dennis Crease will tell you that every single format in an award show is going to have issues. This whole Critics' Choice thing that we're doing with the Pinball Industry Awards, it's got just as many pitfalls in it as well. but Twippies is celebrated and we're trying to find the pitfalls in ours just trying to, at this point, here's the other here's my strong take for the episode guys at this point content creators if this fucking trophy means that much to you buy one go all in, go all in what are you waiting for, if you're going to do mass emails fucking buy the votes but the thing is, it's not Jeff's fault and that's what I want to say right off the bat people don't think, and they think maybe I'm a little jaded or something like that, I'm not jaded Jeff is trying to do the best job he can. Yeah, the committee works hard. He's trying to stop these things from happening. But ultimately, it's hard to stop that in a people's choice report. Of course, in a popularity contest. That's the problem. We just hope that the content providers that are up for nominations have the decency to play by the rules. That's it. Don't get me wrong. I don't know why some of these shows did it because their content is good. Yeah, and it feels good to be recognized. I like getting recognized, but it doesn't feel as good if I bought them. It just doesn't. It feels nothing. It's stupid. Exactly. But Haneda here may say, I need another one. That's right. Well, and a lot of these listeners are going to say, and I get this argument too, a lot of listeners are going to say, well, you two are bitching about it because you guys don't want them. I see that perception, but I just wish you guys could get in my brain because it's so far from the fucking truth.
    91:14
    Literally, we were in every one so far until this year. And guess what? I can't do anything about it. I didn't ask for votes. I didn't beg for votes. We joked around. Last year, we told people. Two years ago, when we were really high in it, we actually told people, do not vote for us. Yeah, I remember that. Because guess what? I want people to judge us, and I want people to listen, because we're trying to give the best show we can. And we're going to bring up topics that people like and don't like. And we're going to bring up things where people don't like tournaments. But we have a lot of people who do listen to tournaments. We have a lot of tech talk. If you don't like it, fast forward it. Yeah, don't listen. You get a lot of listeners, so. But guess what? You're going to hear mine and Ron's thoughts, and you might agree with them. You might not, but we're going to be honest. I'm not going to make up shit for you. I keep so much stuff that I know in the back pocket. I know you do. And I don't want to give it out because I don't want it to be wrong, and then it looks bad on me. I don't buy what the content of the show is. The Super Awesome Pinball Show has a great show because they get great interviews. That's what they should be judged by.
    92:27
    They're very good at their interviews. That's what they need to do that. That's what I was like, gosh, what are you doing over there? You don't need to do this. They don't need to do that. They're great at what they're doing. That's what I like about it. I expect a reach around, though. If I don't get a fucking reach around award. Well, you do have to pay for that one. No, no, no, no, no. I plugged Jeff Teolis and Jeff Teolis fondled my boss enough where I should get my own reach around. Oh, wow.
    92:54
    Nothing like a Teolis reach around. But those guys are great, too. Yeah, there's a lot of – and we're all – I love Marty. Marty and, you know, if I can talk to Marty, Ryan, Jeff, like – Yeah, there's not a better Creole out there. I love talking to them. And think about it. Most people don't realize, and it's not a brag on ourselves, a lot of people have started podcasts after listening to ours. Oh, you were the inspiration for a lot of people, even some of my segments. Yes, and something for your TPN people. You know, Crystal. I love Crystal. My God, Crystal is the sweetest person in the world. She's got a heart of gold, and she's good at what she does. She interviews people well. That's a home run. We know when we had, you know, with the Print Ball Princess. We've had so many good people. Marty, and honestly, and Ryan C. You guys are the statesmen. You're the veterans. You're the people everybody respects. If anybody else wanted to start a podcast, as you guys try to do, I would be happy to tell them what to do. Because guess what? It only makes everything better.
    94:02
    Man. Except for we never got the TPN request for our show. Oh, because Slamtail's going to join TVN, yeah. You didn't know that. I pretty much knew that, Bruce.
    94:17
    You're right. Yeah, I know. We would actually be probably. You would have respectfully declined, but you would have declined. No, I don't know about that. Because when Ron actually. I'm going to say this. When me and my wife actually want to do a podcast together, I am going to ask you. That's the literal truth. And it's going to be probably a little bit of the old, you know, like what we did at the bar and that kind of stuff. And then also how my wife deals with a pinball maniac. That's true, yeah. That would be good. I would love to hear different spouses in pinball, how they deal with their maniac pinball-obsessed spouse. Man, I feel like I'm ready to go to battle with you. I am going to ask me in the TPN network. Oh, whoa, you heard it here. Yep. Ladies and gentlemen, we're on. Move over. Here comes Brucey, baby. Yep, me and my wife. Woo! Oh, my God, we love it.
    95:15
    All right, Bruce. Oh, it's been good, man. I love having you on here. But you've never experienced, only a handful of people have experienced this. Listener at home, maybe turn down your radio a little bit because shit's about to go down. in a little segment we like to call Pinball Market Trends! Huh?
    95:40
    Oh, yeah. I liked it. See? You got to think along. I'm a little hyper now, Bruce. You ready for that? I am ready for it because I love this market trend. Oh, holy shit. How about it? You guys hear that? We got another lover.
    95:56
    I'm in. Let's go. Where's Dennis Creasel at with this love? Do you think Dennis Crystal secretly fucking just loves market trends? I think he does love market trends. Oh, really? He doesn't like your excitement level, you know, because Dennis is very even keel. No, he's very rambunctious and excited and hyper.
    96:15
    I love Dennis. Oh, I love you, Dennis. Training up this week is Elvira's House of Whores. I'm a broken record, and I get it, but I only report the facts here, guys. I'm sorry. That son of a bitch is so hot right now, it even makes me stick repeating it. Oh, you know how many messages I get, Bruce, every day? Hey, when's the next Elvira run? Hey, can I get on the list for the next Elvira run? I'm like, what is it, a brand new game? This thing's been out for, what, a year and a half now? People can't get enough of it. I cannot get enough of the price, unfortunately. It's a little bit higher than the regular premium. It's a tough one. But on the secondary market, they're going used the same price, if not more, than a new one. I know. Why isn't Stern making these games? The next run is in April. and they haven't ran it since October? Yeah. Keep bumping it. Now I have a question for you. Do you think they should have released Led Zeppelin as soon as they did? Or do you think they should have caught up on their backlog a little bit? Oh, selfishly, I would have loved for them to do their backlog. But I see the business practice they have. They have a schedule, and they want to stick to that schedule. And a lot of times probably licensing can come into a factor of when they have to release stuff. So I like them keeping the schedule as an enthusiast, but as a dealer, sure. I've got a lot of backordered games that I would love to see done. Do you think they should build another line besides the two they have already? I don't see an argument against really at this point because that's how hot Stern pinball machines are right now. I know, when you actually have your crews coming in on later nights and weekends. Yeah, it's time to maybe build. That's a good point. Yeah. So Elvira's hot. Hot, hot, hot, baby. You know what else is hot? Boom, boom. It's GNR. It's collector's edition. That's training up this week. And people are like, you're such a dumbass. Of course it's training up. Well, they're on the line. And have you seen any for sale yet? The answer is no. There's been one. But the reason people. One or two maybe on Pinside. And maybe one or two in the private groups that I see. But nothing to that. They haven't posted it because they've. JJP has threatened. Hey, if you're trying to sell your spot, we will get rid of that said spot. But what you're going to see now, listener, now that they are going into the homes, you're going to start seeing them go up on the secondary market for people to flip. One online right now on Pennside is listed for $20,000.
    98:41
    Yeah, nutty. 20K. And guess what, Bruce? They'll get it. I know they will because some people will miss the boat. Woo. That's true. I'd rather get an LE and a House of Horrors and maybe a couple older solid states and be set. Okay. I could see that argument. But I'm still getting the T. Bye, bye, bye! Oh, that cabinet. Oh, with the mirroring. Rad cows. Come on. And the sparkles, Bruce. The sparkles. And the extra stuff on the play field. And the apron. And the coma. Lock it. That coma. Do you agree or disagree with that move to add a mechanical, albeit small, a mechanical feature on the collectors and not the limited edition? Well, I don't agree with it, but it made the cost difference a little more justifiable. You get another speaker on the topper. Oh, and speaking of toppers, who doesn't love pinball toppers? This next game that's training up has one hell of a topper, And that it The Attacks from Mars remake limited edition The reason this and for the most part the special edition are increasing right now and you going to see them continue to increase is because they stopped making them And whenever CBC stops making something, that's all of a sudden when everybody's like, I can't have it. I get emails now, I need an attack from Mars. Where were you at three months ago when I had inventory? But no, no, no. Everybody's got to have an attack from Mars now. And some people aren't high on the idea of a cactus canine, if that's the case. So they're going to say, well, what else do I love? An attack from Mars is tried and true. I don't like poppers. Oh, fuck. Really? Really. I hate them. Turning down this week is Bruce Nightingale's taste. Overall. He doesn't like poppers, doesn't like spinner shots anymore, doesn't like LED shit. What do you like, Bruce? Classic Stern. Oh, God. And I do like Radical. So, see, we agree with that. Okay. I love Radical. I'm in love with Radical, too. Yes. I've been begging Stu at CPR to make a damn play field so I can get a repro and really restore Radical. Why? Because it'll be wrong. Oh!
    100:55
    Shots fired! I've shot him many times. Sorry, Meteor. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I'll take a wrong new play field over a right messed up non-Diamond Coat play field any day. well, I'll take a right NOS play field for my meteor instead of not, because I have one. Do you think it is sacrilegious for me to even consider bastardizing that Bally radical cabinet just so it fits in a standard Williams cabinet of that era? Oh, God, yes. Bastardizing, totally. You need the speakers up on top. Oh, it's so ugly.
    101:33
    No, it's not. It's great, because it's a Bally cabinet, but it's owned by Williams. so you still have to look at it that way. The only way I can have a Radical is if it's fully restored with all new stuff and it has to sit next to another ugly ballet cabinet, so I would go Black Rose. Very easy. Black Rose. Oh, that's a stinger of a combo right there. Off the training down this week is TMNTLE. Say it ain't so. Why is TurtlesLE training down? There's blood in the marketplace. The meth never worked. Well, the hang glider is a bit problematic at times. But we can get that fixed for you. another assembly but the le's are flooding the marketplace and when something floods the marketplace prices go down down down it's math people it's numbers and last time i checked they don't fucking lie now how are premium cells i wonder doing are they really no they're they're kind of premiums there's not as many probably made so everybody always sticks to but no they're not they're not uh rushing out the door either the pro is really where it's at right now for the turtles. That's maintaining pretty well. You don't get a lot of differences. You get a problem out. By us, we have a ton of pros and only one Ellie. That's another underrated game. That's a great game. I love my turtles. Love it, love it, love it. But what I don't love and the reason I'm trending it down this week, enough guys. We're done with the fucking playfield hammer testing. I'm finished. I don't care to see sledgehammers hit the playfields anymore. I don't. I've seen recently this last week, Bruce, a video of the alien playfield being destroyed. And I don't know what the purpose of the demonstration was. That's why I want this all to go away. They're like, hey, watch us. We can hit this playfield with a hammer. Look, it chips it and it fucks it up. I'm like, well, yes, it does. What are you trying to prove here? I don't get it. That their clear coat is tough? No, clear coat's not supposed to be tough. That's the problem. Oh, I don't know what the video was showing. I have no clue what it was showing. They were like taking a chisel to it and like lifting up. They're like, see, the art adheres and the wood comes up. And I'm like, okay, it's still not good. We don't want any of this. So stop with the play field hammer testing videos. We've had enough. We've had our fill. Okay, sorry. I worked up on that one. Holding steady this week is Bruce's favorite CERN game, Stranger Things. Uh-huh. It's not trending down yet, baby. I hope it's going to start hanging.
    104:11
    She's hanging. Cliffhanger here. Stranger Things. That's because the code continues to get even better. The technology in that game. Oh, the Stranger Things new season is about to come out. They may not be making this in 2021. I'm just telling you guys. I'm going to say you didn't hear it here, but you heard it here. And whenever things go out of production, that's when people want it. Stranger Things. Ask people about Deadpool premiums. I'll be busy getting a hold of one of those. That's why they're main pain in the wall. I've been looking for one. Yeah, they're hard to get a hold of. Stranger Things, hold them steady. I'm not training it down yet. No, it deserves better. No, it doesn't.
    104:54
    And this week, Trader Buck and our Deals of the Motherfucking Week. Bye, bye, bye. Deals of the week this week include a Stargate. What do you got on Stargate? You like Stargate? Shoot the Pyramid. And you know what you can do? You can shoot the pyramid. Yeah. One more time. Shoot the pyramid.
    105:12
    Get the ROMs that do not have shoot the pyramid in it, and you're good. Yeah. Stargate is good, though. I like the game. It's actually, if you change, you've got to change the coil stops for all the lower two flippers, so you actually can't catch everything. That's a Zach tip there, isn't it? That is a Zach tip. And then you get rid of the EPROM for the sound for the get the pyramid, and then it's okay. Okay. Because I am a big Stargate fan. Gotcha. I've never owned one. I'd like to own one. This one in particular is coming from Lawrenceville, Georgia. Pensider by the name of Torrey. It's in excellent condition, this Stargate. Looks good. Everything works 100%. Playfield, cabinet, all looking good. And we all know for Gottlieb sometimes, that's a stretch. It has a little bit of wear in the kickback. That's pretty typical. It's common on a Stargate. Yeah, pretty typical. It's been shopped out, fully LED'd, which Bruce loves. It's even got the red light and the back glass. It's got the topper. It's $3,100 Oboe. I think it's a good price. It's a good deal for a clean-looking Stargate with extras. Buy, buy, buy! But don't pay, pay, pay $3,100. If they put Oboe, you don't give them what they're asking for. Go in at $2,800, right, since you have to pick it up. $2,800. And they're going to say, no, I'll take three. And you say, look, I'll give you $2,850, but I'll come pick it up with cash. and you'll get that thing, and that's a good deal. Yes. Another deal of the week this week is, now, this is strange. This is a Monster Bash Ellie topper. Now, when I first saw this, I thought it was a medieval madness topper, and I thought for $950, you can buy them on the Flippin' Out website for $600. Why would you want to do that? But no, this is a Monster Bash. Somebody's taken this off of their Ellie because they don't sell this as an accessory, listen. So, Monster Bash Ellie topper for $950. That is a steal of the week because you cannot buy that. Buy, buy, buy! I know it sounds pricey, Bruce, but if you can't buy it, you know the price goes up.
    107:11
    It's true. Like, technically a radical NOS play field is just a new play field, so it should only be worth what new play fields are worth, like $800 to $1,000. I would pay more than, I'd probably pay $2,000 for probably more. Supply and demand. Supply and demand, I agree. Come on, $950 for a Monster Bash LE topper that I don't even know is coded, so you couldn't even put it in a classic remake or a special edition. But still, it's the thought.
    107:38
    If you collect topics like that. But it's probably because he couldn't fit in his house. Yeah. One of those low ceiling fellas. Yeah. Okay, buddy. It's okay.
    107:51
    Oh, so yeah. I'm deflating him on his top four keys. Speaking of dick measuring, we're going to ceiling measure. It's a ceiling measuring contest, assholes. Yeah. See, my ceiling's lower than you are. It makes it look bigger.
    108:08
    It's like a ceiling scaping. Shave that ceiling down a little bit to grow an inch. Oh, my God. I'm losing it. I've never seen a Monster Bash LE topper up for sale. I thought about buying one. Never mind. I will say never has either. I don't like Monster Bash as a game, but I kind of want the topper. There you go. Now, I have a question for you, since you are a JJP distributor. Yes. Remember in the old days when you order, say, when you first ordered your Wizard of Oz, you got that number.
    108:40
    And then in The Hobbit, you can also continue that number. Did they allow numbers continuing after that? Okay, so the number matching. Yeah, you can request numbers, and they do have number matching. I think that, I don't know all the details, but I think that you would almost have to have those to be able to continue requesting that specific number. That's cool, though. That's great. If you still had that, that would be kind of a cool thing. At some point in time, they're going to have to, if they're sitting on that number, they're going to have to sell it. Of course. It's not a guarantee. I know Chicago Gaming Company, they preemptively do that. So they'll ask us dealers, they'll say, okay, guys, LEs are about to come out. We need to get some number matching. do you have any customers that want to continue that number match? That's great. That's cool. That's a good selling point. Yeah, and it's kind of a pain for the dealers, too. I'm not going to lie. Oh, of course it is. Of course it is because now you're playing, you know, does this guy want this? You've got to call him up, email him, ask him, hey, you know, are you still interested before it gets buy-buy, you know. But at least you have the option. Sure. And we all know somehow some pinball people are anal. Yeah, they've got to have that certain number. But on some of these companies like Stern, Jersey Jack, I think you have to pay for certain numbers. Like you have to pay a little extra, $100 extra or something if you want a super low number or if you want an even like a 1 or a 10 or a 15. Unless you know some dealers. Oh. Oh, I know that part of it. Some dealers get certain allotments of certain numbers. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. I'll work my way up to there, Bruce. I'll work my way up to that point. Oh, you. I guarantee you. Yeah, I'll get there. But until then, it's random numbers for you, customers. Yeah, exactly. No, we did get a specified number on Led's that one. A customer wanted a certain, I can say the number, they wanted 311. So, got them 311. There you go. That's great. I want my main history of those a number I want. Sure. A lot of JJP, we do a lot of number requests for JJP stuff. We have a lot of customers that want to continue that. So, we do that.
    110:42
    Honestly, I have not a problem. That's what I think is going to be happening down the line in the future. That would be cool. Where we have customizable things. Because you get that loyalty. Somebody doesn't want to break that streak. Or even like, hey, I'd ask you to play extra if the designer, like what Eric's doing for some of the JJP GNRs. He's signing special with the name. I do love that. Yeah. Charge extra for that. And guess what? Make it an option, an order option. That would be cool. And, ladies and gentlemen, that, with my co-host Bruce, was the pinball.
    111:16
    Finish it up for me, Bruce A. Chicken dress! Oh, shit. You actually did it better than me, ass. That was good. See, I have all these talents. I'm waiting for you at TPN. Untap. I love it.
    111:35
    Speaking of tapping, Bruce, I'm about to do something to you I haven't done in a while, baby. Can you see that couch over there? Can you lay down? I'll come up right back. I'm going to get some KY.
    111:45
    Flip over. I don't need to see that. Just lay there on the couch. And, Bruce, I was wanting to see if you'd be willing to let me tap right into that pinball subconscious of yours.
    111:56
    All right. Ladies and gentlemen, for those of you who aren't familiar, we haven't done this in a while, but tapping into our co-host's pinball subconscious, I'm going to give them the beginning of a sentence. And this is a fast segment because at the end of that sentence, I want the co-host just to fill out the sentence with whatever pops into their head. As a reminder, this may not be how the co-host really feels. And if it's too on-rear filthy, we will edit it out entirely. But I've got a man here with no filter, and I've got to utilize that. You got it, baby.
    112:35
    So, Bruce, I'm going to give you the beginning of a sentence here, and I want you, as quickly as you can, to just finish this sentence. If you hesitate too long, I'm going to start pushing. But if you notice, I don't know the question. So that's the best part about it. You know none of this. So the first statement is, the worst Stern Electronics game. Go. Galaxy. Oh, poor Galaxy. Okay. It's terrible. What? Oh. It's okay. But. It's Star's brother. What? It's Star's brother. Yeah, it's not. No, it's a wannabe. Oh. Star's is the official pinball machine of the Slamto podcast. I guess it would be more of a meteor sibling galaxy. Yeah. All right. So you guys heard it there. Now, the galaxy, is that missing a spinner? There's something about galaxy I don't like. It had one, but it's a bad plot. Okay. I got you. So it's not really like, wow. It's just, yeah. Okay. The next statement.
    113:34
    Soothing music here. Okay. The next statement. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but go. Stranger Things really does fucking suck. Oh, stop! Next statement.
    113:47
    Next statement. Oh, my God. Didn't go how I wanted it to. In pinball, I would just love to hug... Go. Gary Stern.
    113:59
    With a drunk. Oh, yeah. Might get more than a hug. Okay. Oh, my. Hello. Beep, boop. All right, next one. Stern's Led Zeppelin. Go. is potentially a great game with all the tools at their accessibility with Timmy, Raymond, and Steve Ritchie. Okay. Have to play. That's good. Off the cuff, you did good on that one. Okay.
    114:25
    Uh-oh. Hang on tight, listener. Here we go. Behind the scenes, pinball media can be... Go. A bunch of backstabbing assholes.
    114:37
    Most are not, though. Some can be. Let's go to the jury. Okay, yeah, you got that correct. You are correct. Okay, next one. But we do have a lot of great people in the family. The majority of us, we're all fun, good family. Okay.
    114:53
    My Slam Tilt co-host, Ron Hallett, go. He's my brother. I like that. That felt good. He is truly, you know, when he has issues, I'm there for him. when his mother died, I was there for him. When my father died, he was there for me. He is my brother. I love that. You can feel it. You're always so genuine. I love it. Okay.
    115:18
    Conversely, his Silver Ball Chronicles co-host, David Dennis. Go. Go, go, go. Is he me? Eh? No. I don't know what I would say about David because I've never met him personally, but he is a good guy who wants to be funny like me, but doesn't have the gift.
    115:40
    I love you. An asshat whose jokes fall flat. How about that, David Dennis? Oh, wow. Oh, sorry, that was just my interpretation of what you said. I think I'm just reading into your mind too much. Okay, let me back up a little bit. All right, next one.
    115:55
    JJP's Willy Wonka is better than the Wizard of Oz because... Go. Uh, it has less flippers. I love that you went for it. Thank you. Okay. Of course, I'm going to figure something. You know, that's the only thing I can think of. Good for you. I like that. I thought you were going to tell me to fuck off. All right. That's the look of something. Next one. The worst call-out in pinball. Go.
    116:19
    Chickpaw. I knew it. I knew I'd get you to say it. Thank you. Of course. Thank you for that. That's iconic from you. Chickpaw. I knew it! The most beautiful pinball machine ever. Go. Fathom.
    116:36
    Hard to argue that. I'm with you. Hard to argue. Colors and just the way it was drawn back in the early 80s is just amazing. Greg Ferris did an incredible job. Throw some LEDs in there so you can actually hear it. Oh!
    116:52
    Speaking of, here comes the next one. adding color LEDs to an electromechanical gets me hard because... It reminds me of a clown.
    117:06
    And I have a thing for clowns. Oh, my God. Hi, Georgie. You look like a nice boy. I bet you have a lot of friends. I had two. Sorry, Bruce. Okay. And that's why I came back to that. Oh, man. All right. Next one. I need a pinball topper for my... Car. on a car instead of anything else. I don't want to put it on a Vim on a V. Do you have the vanity plate? I do not. I do have, I can get one in New York State that I'd like to get, but I've never. The problem is it's $150 every time. A little steep. That is the car's topper, a vanity plate right there. Yes, it is. It costs a little more than you should. And it does nothing for me. It's just like a topper. It does nothing for you at all. Well, until recently where you get extra modes. I know. And you have to pay extra for your regular mode, I know. Okay. Back on it.
    117:57
    Okay. Meditation. There's nothing juicier in pinball than a spinner on Stargazer. Oh, I thought you were going to say Willy Wonka. Damn it. Nope. Spinner on Stargazer. Three spinners to shoot. There's nothing juicier. Hmm. Stupid pocket slingshots. Hmm. I love it. Hey, you would be happy to know, Bruce, and I blame you and Ron, partly, that I now have a Stargazer being made for me. Ooh, then you are in luck, brother, because that is one of the greatest games. Well, and it probably won't shoot as good as one that's wore in, you know, but it'll still get some plays. You're very lucky. But what I will say, so I like Stargazer a lot, but there's one game in particular, this is a tease for the audience, that I think is one of the most overrated shit games, and I know that you and a lot of our friends are in love with, but you're going to have to listen and watch the straight down the middle top ten most overrated pinball machines. Oh!
    119:06
    And let's just let the record show, I don't want to be on a Skype call with Bruce when that comes out. Oh, boy, here comes stars bashing. I do like stars, and for the money, I think that's damn near as good as you can get for early sales. Okay, a couple more.
    119:25
    The pinball show's Dennis Creasel. Go. Is the circuit breaker of that show. Fuck. What the hell? Circuit breaker. He is. Got too much voltage, baby. Yep, and what does he do? He snaps that circuit breaker and it's just calm down. 120, I'm pushing 150, bitch.
    119:46
    Okay. No, no, no. Now, Zach. Now. No, Zach. You will not break into 80s songs like... I got my mind set on you. What are you going to hold on to? I got my mind set on you. Nothing. No, that was bad. No, you loved it. No, no, you were a little off pitch, you know. A whole lot of things. I got my mind set. And that isn't Hall & Oates. Oh, who is that? That's not Hall & Oates at all. Now you've got to figure out who it is. George Harrison.
    120:26
    Is it Harry? It is. I got my mind set on you. Son of a... I got my mind set on you. I got my mind set on you Oh, see? We harmonized. Did you feel it? Yep. I'm hard. This time it means a meal.
    120:54
    No, I want it to be. See? Dennis loves you. Dennis loves you right now because he likes singing. He does. He's actually singing along right now. And he was yelling from that's my whole note. To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it right. Ladies and gentlemen, there you go. How about it? We've got one more. Actually, two more. Okay.
    121:19
    If pinball wore pants, they would be size... Go. Super duper extra large because we're not the most fittest people.
    121:34
    I'm the first one to admit it. Well, we do have ceiling measure contests. That is true. Exactly. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. I do love that whole analogy that we created just right there. See? It's going to trend now. It is going to be here. My sword is bigger because my ceiling is lower. Yeah. Did you see my ceiling?
    121:56
    Finished. And the last one. Okay. All right, Bruce. The last one is finish this statement. Governor Kumo. I'm joking. Don't finish that statement. He's an asshole. It's easy. I win. I know that would set you off and Lazy Woman. That was tapping into the pinball subconscious. Bruce, you probably did better than anyone else because you were about as real as they come and out with it it goes.
    122:24
    There's no filter. My wife says there's no filter. It hasn't been one for 20 years. What does she think of your ceiling? Does she think you need to maybe?
    122:34
    My ceiling is tall enough, I guess, for her. Does the ceiling match the carpet there? Yeah, she does, she does, she does. We're getting older now. Look at me, I'm almost 50 now.
    122:48
    I need a walker shoe and I'm going to need me some vitamins. They're called blue little pills called rosemary. I did hate that. The other day I did find a gray pube and I'm like, what is this? This is bullshit.
    123:01
    Luckily, I still have red down there. Oh, fireball. I am the Jeff Theolis of nut sex when it starts getting gray that's when I know I'm done oh man okay now we're gonna close down this fucking show alright Bruce you have made my entire day and once I listen back to this probably my entire week I think you and I are kind of a match made in heaven whether you want to admit to it or not you have some good taste But, you know, some of these we can work on. I've worked on Ron for all these years, and, you know, it's a growing process. If only I could get you to like toppers, LEDs, actual pinball machines that are good. You actually have a better odds of probably me liking toppers more than LEDs. So you have some pull there. Why don't you respect the original boards on a game? Putting them hot incandescents over. And play fields. Pour clear coats on your poor classic games. Okay, let's go by previous examples. How many times do you leave your games on 24-7?
    124:11
    I know where you're going. You're going to win this one. But no, I do not. I am going to win this one. You know I am. I do not. You do not leave them on all the time. And what causes heat? Leaving them on way too long. Thank you. Yeah, that's true. I'm going to give you that one. I'm going to concede on that one. But over time, you know what it does to those inserts. It does nothing. Oh, it raises those inserts. Gets them hot. It does not. Guess what? The only thing that will raise an insert if it's not glued properly and it has a mismatched clear coat. Oh, and then you get bubbles in the mylar because of that heat.
    124:47
    Exactly. That's the only reason why you're going to have issues. Boards are going to get hot. You're going to have to redo freaking components on the board all the time. No, that's just the PPB board on the old GNRs and old Data East. Those are never touching those. Those connectors get a little warm. They're a little crispy, them connectors. And them WPCs and System 11s. Yep. Pull up an old System 11 that hadn't been shopped out and see if that connector isn't fucking toast. If the interconnect board is not melted, half of it. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yep. So let people know, Bruce, where they can catch you between now and the next time you're kind enough to appear on here, if you'd be willing to come back at some point. I would love to come back any time you need me. Oh, God, I love it. And you can be found on Slam Tilt Podcast. It's the Slam Tilt Podcast at gmail.com. Yeah. You can come check us out. We broadcast once every other week. Usually we're pretty repetitive. And you can hear my co-host, Ron Hallett, on the Silver Bowl Chronicles on the TPA Network and also with the Slam Tilt Podcast. Whoa.
    125:49
    Plugging Silver Bowl Chronicles. I have a contract now with Dennis. I heard. He has to plug at least three times on the show, the Slam Tilt Podcast. Man. On the Silver Bowl Chronicles. Man, it feels like Ron's got his hands full there with all this plugging that's going on. Oh, my. Yes, we do. Hey, hey.
    126:12
    You can catch it. And most of the people that are listening to this show are subscribers and followers of the Slam Tilt Podcast. But if for some reason five of you aren't, definitely I couldn't recommend a show more, especially like for me it's cathartic because i love yelling and i get to yell at bruce every time i hear some asinine take that he takes but he puts them out there and most people would probably agree with him but it's okay hold on one of your listeners who used to be on a tpn show he used to have a tpn show on your thing what was his name oh orbital al yeah he says he agrees with me almost 99% of the time. Well, I'll let you have that. I love Orby. No, I love Orby, too. That's the funny thing. He doesn't think I listen to him. He and I don't agree on games, either. So, I'll let you have that one. Well, I guess we'll just eat where we're headed with this one now. Mm-hmm. Who gave him his name? I know. Yeah, I got custody of that name.
    127:11
    He's a good kid. He's a very good guy. I love that guy. All right, so you can catch us at the Pinball Network at gmail.com if you want to find us. to email us. Dennis Creasel can be found every other week on a Collected Gamers podcast. He's due this week, so listen in on that episode. As well as, we've got a website that George Fisher from Don't Panic Flip is working really well on. So that's going to be revealed soon enough. In the meantime, go over to straight down the middle of Pinball YouTube Series. Follow, subscribe over there. We've got a lot of cool videos like a recent Willy Wonka review. We've got an upcoming Turtles review. We have this week, the most overrated pinball machines as we were saying. And if you're ready to buy a brand new, juicy, wonderful pinball machine, you can come to me. Hell, you can go to anybody. But stand behind our service after we sell you a game, as well as all the accessories, troubleshooting, opinions, whatever you need, we try to give, in addition, media. I'm trying to give media to you guys. I want you guys to have everything, to be informed, and to have a shitload of fun. So call us at 812-457-9711, or even that Escalera stair climbing hand truck at Zach, Z-A-C-H, at flip, the letter N, outpinball.com, or just go to the website, flippingoutpinball.com. Machine Showcase this week is a Teenage Mutant Ninja Twinos pro. I found a pro. It was in inventory. It was hiding. I've got one pro left. They're going to remake them in, I believe, March. I believe March. So in the meantime, Bruce, you're the only podcaster I know that knows the schedules too. I love it. Yeah, it's pretty sad. isn't it? No, it's awesome because I can relate. So, Turtles Pro, we have one of those left. We still got a couple Batman 66 pre-ins. That's another one now that I've got. Pre-game. Nobody wants them. Get it now. The minute that they stop making them, everybody wants one. Alien, we're taking pre-orders on because, yeah, we're in the process of that. We've got one Hot Wheels in stock. I think I even have a used Hot Wheels. We have one Beatles Platinum in stock and a used one. Willy Wonka CE still in stock. MMR accessories like the extended display still in stock and the top. Avengers side art, armor, TMNT, and JP armor in stock.
    129:20
    Go spend some money, people. You owe it to yourself. Especially now you might be getting $2,000 extra. Spend, spend, spend. That's right. Get that economy rolling. Ask Kumo, right? What a mess this fucking cut. Let's not even get into that. I'm not going there. I'm just saying you might get $2,000 extra because that's what they're talking about. No, I'm saying I went there. I didn't want to think about that. Use that money here in pinball land. Hey, Brucey, don't lie. Buy, buy, buy! So go spend that money. Last week at TPN, the Pinball Show Midweek Edition, welcome special guest Joel Engelberth from just another pinball podcast. That was a fun recap of all the different podcasts, media, streamers, etc. A lot of fun seeing those content providers discussing that. This week, I don't know what is coming. Oh, I think we have a final round coming up this week. Jesse J. I saw Silverwall Chronicles. They were talking about starting another show. I think they're recording this week, so you might. Yeah, may get something there Everybody loves the Chronicles And a lot of people love the Chronic too That's just how it goes in this country Other things this week We should have a Puppet Pals soon enough I can't wait for my Puppet Pals And just another pinball And straight on to Crystal Where's my plum at, Crystal? We need some plumage Yes, we do I like a little plumage Miss her I think it wraps it up Not too bad over here at the pinball show, right, Bruce? No, I love it It's honestly very easygoing, very good company. Hells yeah. Hells yeah, man. And I'm still going to earn my spot on a future Clusterbuck. Yes, you have a Clusterbuck spot, and we're going to have the Zach and Zach show.
    130:56
    I'm looking forward to that. As long as everybody's part of it and I can bust chops. Oh, you hear all we are. Oh, I do. I listen to every single episode the minute it airs. Thank you. Oh, it'll be a lot of fun, man. I think the world of you. Respect the hell out of you. Even though we haven't met, Matt, I know you. I know a lot of pinball people. And behind the scenes, pinball people will tell you how pinball people are. And you're one of the best, my friend. I appreciate it. I try to be honest with everybody and straightforward. And if I'm not talking to you, there's a reason. And see, I'm not so bad, right? No, you're... Misconceptions people have. Okay, I've got to get that list down for Dennis. Check this. Don't scratch this one. Check this. Okay, we're good. We're good. Don't bring up this person or that person or this person. All right, ladies and gentlemen, for Bruce Nightingale, I'm Zach Minney. Goodbye, Ron Hallett. Oh, my, my. That's what I think of. Oh, my, my. See, it's in my head. And always practice safe pinball. And Mr. Blue Sky, please tell us why you had to. So long, everybody. Oh, my, my.
    132:02
    Thank you very much for everything. This was a ball. Oh, fuck yeah. Good, man. And I was going to say, I get way too excited about shit like this. So I love this kind of stuff. This is why Rod, you know, is like, okay, Bruce, got to calm down a little bit. I enjoy it. And guess what? Energy means fun. Oh, fuck yeah, man. I don't contain it. I don't hide it. And I'm glad that Dennis is there to bring me down when I need to be. Oh, yeah. That's what Rod does. That's what our co-hosts are for. Yes, exactly. But this was fun. It was dangerous when you and I got together here. Zach, thank you very much for everything. This was a treat. If you need anything from me ever, just ask, please. Same here, man. Same here. And I cannot wait to meet you. Fuck yeah, man. We're going to hang out. Hopefully once the world goes back to normal. We'll have a ball together because you don't know me when it comes down to fun. You're a pro at this, but I think it went awesome. It was fun. People are going to love it, man. They're going to love it. Have a great weekend. Enjoy your weekend. And thank you again. You too. See you, brother. See you, bro. Bye. Thank you.