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Episode 151 - Almost 0% Activision News!

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·59m 31s·analyzed·Oct 4, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Eclectic Gamers discuss Queen pinball reveal, JJP achievements, and CGC's Cactus Canyon remake.

Summary

Tony and Dennis discuss their recent gaming and pinball activities, including Tony's tournament experience at 403 Club where he won a Walking Dead topper via unexpected circumstance. The main pinball segment covers three topics: Pinball Brothers' newly revealed Queen pinball machine (criticized for poor artwork despite decent layout), Jersey Jack's Scorebit achievement integration announcement (perceived as rushed marketing), and Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon remake featuring Lyman Sheets and Josh Sharp on enhanced software.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Brothers' Queen machine was not intended as an official reveal to the pinball community; it appeared at a Queen pop-up store in London

    high confidence · Direct observation from podcast hosts reviewing the unintended reveal

  • Jersey Jack Pinball partnered with Scorebit to embed achievement tracking into their machines starting with Willy Wonka

    high confidence · Press release notification received by Eclectic Gamers podcast

  • Stern's Godzilla pinball machine had achievements live during livestreamed player sessions before Jersey Jack's Willy Wonka shipped

    medium confidence · Host speculation based on livestream timing versus physical game availability

  • Lyman Sheets and Josh Sharp are partnering with Chicago Gaming Company as contracted (not employed) staff to develop enhanced software for Cactus Canyon remake

    high confidence · IFPA website announcement cited by hosts

  • There is an unconfirmed rumor that John Borg's next Stern design is Rush, the band, scheduled for December announcement

    low confidence · Host acknowledges this as rumor sourced from community speculation

Notable Quotes

  • “Has he been dethroned? Am I now the topper king? If for no other reason than how I secured basically via coup d'etat a topper. Because, you see, this is how I get them. I don't buy $2,000 gold foil toppers. I get scratched, falling off machine toppers as rando prizes in pinball tournaments.”

    Dennis @ ~10:00 — Humorous recounting of accidentally acquiring a Walking Dead topper at 403 Club tournament after machine malfunction

  • “The people will wish that Zombie Yeti would just come in and Marvel Method this... I mean, he does everything else.”

    Tony @ ~30:30 — Reference to Stern's Zombie Yeti (head of art department) being expected to fix Queen pinball's poor artwork, indicating community frustration with current design

  • “I just want to go on record that the pedigree does not give me confidence in what it will be because, you know, Pinball Brothers' entire startup in existence is one of those things that is shaky enough as is.”

    Dennis @ ~33:45 — Direct criticism of Pinball Brothers' business stability and track record

  • “Who really cares? If you want my... my interpretive... we want me to take a position. My interpretation answer would be no. Godzilla was first because they live streamed it and the players were earning the achievement.”

    Tony @ ~43:00 — Dismissive take on Jersey Jack's marketing of Wonka as 'first' achievement-enabled pinball machine

  • “I'm so tired of band things? Band pins? Of band pins and all the band pins being just the same thing.”

    Dennis @ ~50:15 — Community frustration with repetitive band-themed pinball releases

  • “You can't fundamentally get away from what the original Cactus Canyon is... you have to have all the same rules up to its incomplete point... unless you love this game and its theme... I think Cactus Canyon is a c-tier game.”

    Tony @ ~63:00 — Critical assessment of Cactus Canyon's quality tier, suggesting limited upside even with new software

Entities

Pinball BrotherscompanyDennispersonTonypersonZombie YetipersonLyman SheetspersonJosh SharppersonJohn BorgpersonJersey Jack Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball Brothers' business stability questioned despite new Queen reveal; concern about company's track record

    medium · Dennis states 'Pinball Brothers' entire startup in existence is one of those things that is shaky enough as is'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing fatigue with band-themed pinball releases; desire for non-dad-rock IP licensing

    medium · Dennis: 'I'm so tired of band things... can we get something from the 90s? Can we get something where somebody didn't kick out their greatest hits album?'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Avengers and Mandalorian machines emerging as most enjoyable for casual/competitive play at 403 Club; Hot Wheels polarizing

    medium · Tournament player experiences: Avengers ranked high due to accessible rules; Led Zeppelin and Guns N' Roses bottom tier despite visuals

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Queen pinball artwork heavily criticized for poor quality, particularly headshots and translight; community calling for Zombie Yeti to redesign

    high · Multiple references to artwork being 'hated,' comparison to undesired photoshop-era style, contrast with rejected caricature-style alternative

  • ?

    leak_detection: Queen pinball machine details surfaced through unintended pop-up store appearance rather than official Pinball Brothers announcement

    high · Hosts confirm prototype was displayed at Queen-themed pop-up store in London; Pinball Brothers apparently did not intend this as community reveal

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.179

0:00
Welcome to episode 151 of the Eclectic Gamers podcast. Today is Sunday, October 3rd. I'm Tony. I'm Dennis. We have a mix. We have stuff We've got video game stuff We've got pinball stuff We've got fan stuff My fans never run this hard before I'm so excited because it's usually my fan Yeah That is tearing a hole in the space time continuum My laptop Is just doing all sorts of Crazy stuff today And being problematic But um I'm going to blame my children Yes That's what I get for having a laptop and allowing them to use it. Yep. They could have just had their own tablets.
1:03
But, nope, they wanted the full keyboard. They wanted the full experience. But speaking of tearing holes in space time, what's been going on the last couple weeks, Tony? Watch any documentaries?
1:15
I've watched several documentaries. Oh. I watched the new Lula Rich documentary. That was what I was watching just before we started because you recommended it. It's good, isn't it? There's so many holes and so many leggings out there. I never knew much about leggings. I still probably don't. Right. But I know that there's big drama in stretch pants. There's drama in stretch pants. Yeah, some of the things are just crazy to me. So we'll see. There, I killed the fan. Oh, you need HP Cool Sense. It's the only way to keep it running But yeah no I mean It's been Hectic I think hectic is the right word for it It's been a very hectic two weeks I've just been busy I've barely played anything of any type Video games or anything By the time I've been getting home I've been so tired I just sack out on the couch for a little while and watched some shows or some documentaries.
2:27
I watched all of Squid Game because that's the number one show in like 90 countries now. It was good. I enjoyed it.
Chicago Gaming Company
company
Queen Pinballgame
Willy Wonkagame
Guns N' Rosesgame
Godzillagame
Cactus Canyon Remakegame
Aliens LV Limited Editiongame
403 Cluborganization
JoJo Stilesperson
Artieperson
Raw Thrillscompany
Scorebitproduct
?

licensing_signal: Queen band license obtained by Pinball Brothers (via Highway Pinball assets); machine expected to ship in six months or later

high · Hosts confirm Queen pop-up store appearance; 'at least six months out' from pinball-ready announcement

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack rushed Scorebit achievement announcement with Willy Wonka only to precede Godzilla; perceived as marketing-driven rather than feature-driven

    high · Hosts note achievement system was already live-streamed on Godzilla before Wonka shipped; 'let's try it. we got to get this out because Godzilla has it out'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Lyman Sheets contracted by Chicago Gaming Company and rumored to work at Raw Thrills arcade manufacturer

    medium · IFPA announcement confirms CGC partnership; separate rumor suggests Raw Thrills employment overlaps with Josh Sharp at that company

  • ?

    product_concern: Led Zeppelin and Guns N' Roses criticized as having empty playfield geometry despite strong visual presentation

    high · Multiple references to Led Zeppelin layout being empty, poor comparison to Star Trek and Spider-Man, Guns N' Roses described as empty despite being fun

  • ?

    rumor_hype: John Borg's next Stern design rumored to be Rush, the band, with December announcement expected

    low · Host acknowledges this as community rumor; 'the rumor is it's Borg next... December... Rush, the band'

    • 2:44
    That's it. I mean, I played – that's it. I haven't won big fancy rewards like you have. Oh, well, I mean, we could talk a bit about the pinball tournament because you, in over a year, finally got back to 403 Club. I did. I got back to 403 Club. People who have harangued you about not being at 403 Club were not at 403 Club. No, they weren't. The irony was palpable within the 403 Club. Yeah, we could feel it. It was everywhere. So we did that, which it went long. That's how long it felt to me. We had 16 people, so they made the decision to do a four-strike, which normally I would say I completely understand that decision. We've done, at Pizza West, gone four-strike about that player count, and it seems to go along pretty well. But there were just some really long games. And for those of you who don't play competitively or haven't played in a strike tournament, you can't move on to the next round until all games are done in the current round. So you're really beholden to how that prior round went. So case in point, there was one time, I don't know what game you were playing. I was on Led Zeppelin, and we had almost finished our Led Zeppelin game when player one finished their ball one of Batman 66. Now, it was Sunshine, and she is a great player.
    4:10
    Very valid. I do want to say the quality of the player really does make a difference for that sort of scenario. But, I mean, it was pretty apparent that Batman 66, Guns and Roses, and there was one other. It might have been, I was going to say, it might have been Avengers. We're kind of long playing. Yeah. When that one happened, I was on Hot Wheels, and we were done.
    4:36
    So, anyway, the grand prize was this cool cooler. Yeah, cool cooler, which I thought would have been great for our expo trip. It would have been. I mean, I've got a bunch of coolers anyway. But I could not get first. I never get first at 403. I never get second. You finished. What's the highest you finished at 403? Was it third? Fourth. I got fourth once.
    5:01
    I never have in a monthly gotten that high. I think I got fourth in the Ghostbusters launch. It's probably the best I've ever done at the club. however there was a bit of a funny story odd story I guess I would say and it's pinball related so I'll tell it incidentally just in terms of what I've done besides working and watching TV shows is I did finish Sherlock Home Crimes and Punishment video game so I did wrap that up because I said I thought I would buy that buy this episode and I did so okay very first round of the tournament there's a group of players including myself who are on The Walking Dead Right. The club has a pro version of The Walking Dead right now. It's really modded. I was showing the fish tank mod because I've been thinking about getting that one if it's available at Expo, for example, or something. Hence, mod suppliers. I might be looking. So anyway, one of the other players, though, would, I'd say, nudge the machine aggressively.
    6:07
    And the topper, which had been secured up top with Velcro, had come loose and it fell. It fell off of the top. It did not land on the player, but it did land on the play field. And, you know, the plug disconnected and all that. And it was like, OK, so that was unfortunate. The guy who had shaken the machine was just like – we had just gotten done announcing there was going to be a drawing for one of the prizes and then the cooler going to whoever won the tournament. And so he made a joke about the topper now being a prize. So fast forward three hours later, whatever. I'm still – I ended up getting seventh. I sure felt like I survived quite a while for only seventh. But it was – I lasted a ways.
    7:02
    There was a lot of really even strike distribution. So anyway, we're going along, and at one point the bar owner, Artie, who owns the 403 Club, we were talking about one of the games. And I looked over and I said, they had already announced who had won one of the other prizes, which was just a random draw. Yeah. Because someone said, I didn't hear who had done it. And Artie goes, well, it was a silent auction. So I just said, oh, so did I win the silent auction for the Walking Dead topper?
    7:37
    And a few minutes later, he said, do you want the topper? It's yours if you want it. And I'm like, what? What? What? And so what had happened is Artie doesn't own the games at the 403 Club. And that Walking Dead is owned by JoJo Stiles, who I've spoken to a few times. JoJo actually bought my Jax to open back in 2020. He had someone else because I think he's up in Nebraska, but he had someone else come and pick it up. But I remember, you know, he bought it really quick after I listed it. and so, yeah, Artie went and opened up the game and got the cord out that the topper plugs into and then got the power splitter board that was also plugged into to supply that particular voltage to the topper. I'm not sure who makes this. I haven't looked up who made this topper. It's like one of those laser-etched topper styles. And there's a bit of a scratch on the upper right, which I'm guessing is where it impacted from where it fell, but, you know, that's just how it works. So am I – you know, Zach Minney, notorious Zach Minney, has self-proclaimed as the topper king. Has self-proclaimed as the topper king. But let me ask you, Tony, just in your neutral judgment, has he been dethroned?
    8:56
    Am I now the topper king? If for no other reason than how I secured basically via coup d'etat a topper. Because, you see, this is how I get them. I don't buy $2,000 gold foil toppers. I get scratched, falling off machine toppers as rando prizes in pinball tournaments. That's how you do it. That's how you should do it. I sure wish I could have won that cooler, though.
    9:24
    You're the king of the dead, apparently. It's sitting there. We're in my kitchen. It's on the counter. I've cleaned it, and I thought maybe after the Chiefs game today, I will try and install it. I'm not. Their only advice was don't secure it with Velcro. Yeah. I need to look at the top of the game to see what options I might have. Because, you know, I might still have double-sided tape from some projects my dad and I worked on. Like heavy-duty double-sided tape. The good stuff. That we've used for. The 3M stuff where they're like, hey, this is what we use to hold solar panels on top of RVs. Yeah, we have some stuff. Or if I don't, he probably still has a roll. So, anyway, I'm thinking that because. And I looked, you were right I did get third place at 403 one time I remember that one Because I went like 2-1 out or 2-1 or something And it was a long wait Yeah, yeah And to Be 100% honest Gotta give 110% It was the same weekend as Pinbrick, so almost everybody was at Pinbrick You know what? It doesn't matter Some may have said I could have been eliminated sooner had Mandalorian's upper playfield ball lock mechanism not been failing on all three of us who are playing. But, you know, sometimes you get beneficial malfunctions. Sometimes you get bad official malfunctions. Badong malfunctions. Yes, badong malfunctions. Before we formally move into the pinball segment, I thought now that you have, because that was your first time to play several of those games. In fact, I think that was your first time to play Hot Wheels, Led Zeppelin, Mandalorian, Guns N' Roses, and Avengers. Yes. Right? All five. Yes. So, do you want to give your five, sorry, Nate Shivers, five fast thoughts? I'll phrase it a little differently. Five fast thoughts, question mark.
    11:20
    Avengers was the most fun of them. Guns N' Roses is beautiful with a beautiful light show and wasn't very fun to play Led Zeppelin was even less fun to play not by a lot but the light show and everything makes up a little bit they're pretty close to being basically about the same on my phonometer Hot Wheels was just wow I've played worse games We'll leave it there And Mandalorian was fun It was alright If I was going to rank them I would have gone Avengers, Mando GNR and Led or Zeppelin Are pretty much right next to each other And then Way way behind was Hot Wheels. Okay. Yeah, I guess I hadn't thought about ranking them myself. But as in that, I've only put like two or three games on all of them. Sure, sure. So that's very willing to change. Yeah, at this point, I would say I would probably rank them Avengers and Mandalorian. I think for me, far and away, those are both the most fun. Third for me would be Hot Wheels. than Led Zeppelin and Guns and Roses last. I did get some more time on... Because for me, the big difference is I think the rules... I've never gotten that deep in Guns and Roses. Let me phrase this. I know the rules are there. I know it's got a rule set. And I understand Guns and Roses rule set and I don't like it.
    13:10
    But the geometry of Led is good. And we have a pro on location. Oh, it is so empty. I don't, I normally, I think I don't care, but for whatever reason with that game, I care. It just, it, I think it, it's emptiness coupled with that third flipper shot and not actually going to a ramp. It just, it felt, it stinks. I just, I mean, it's just, it feels like it could have been, when you compare, when you know Richie's done that layout before, basically, and you're like, Star Trek pulled this off so much better. Spider-Man pulled it off so much better. But it's just, I don't know. Anyway. It was definitely, there was something about it that was very. And I finally got some stuff going on Avengers. That was my big thing with Avengers was in the past, I'm like, this shoot's good, but I don't know what I'm doing. I started to pay attention to how more people were playing it, and I got a better feel for it.
    14:07
    And that could be part of what has kind of shifted my stuff is Avengers was the game where I sat down, and I immediately successfully got a bunch of stuff going. And that, oh, that helped. It does help when you're like, oh, look. I mean, that was my first time experience with Hot Wheels is I won a tournament game on it by a lot. And I was like, yeah. See, because when I sit down with Hot Wheels,
    14:29
    everyone was like, well, you need RPM. I'm like, okay, I need RPM. And then I sat down and I was player one. I'm like, da-da-da-da-da. It's like, okay, that was all right. I mean, I don't feel too bad. and then at the end of ball one, the next player with the closest score to my own was six times higher than me And I like oh crap I screwed something up And then it was me trying to make stuff work. I figured some stuff out. I got some stuff working. But it's still at the same time where you're sitting there going, huh. Well, if I score 300 million points on ball three, I might be able to not take a strike.
    15:19
    Maybe. Oh, wait. Now look who I'm playing against. If I score 400 million points on ball three, I might be able to take third place.
    15:29
    Which wouldn't have been much help. No. Well, we're kind of already introing into pinball, so we'll go ahead and formally transition into it. I do have a few topics. We do actually have a game reveal. I did not anticipate us having one to talk about. I don't think anyone anticipated this one being the one that would end up this week. So Pinball Brothers has revealed Queen Pinball, sort of. Kind of, sort of. So there is a Queen pop-up store that appeared in London.
    16:02
    And originally I was going to link to that article, but the article is about the store. Since then, I've seen that there is a news article at Pinball News about the reveal. So one can go there, click on, you know, they can follow the link that we've included and be able to load up the information on this machine. Now, this was not a playable game. And again, it doesn't seem like Pinball Brothers, I'm guessing here, but it does not seem like Pinball Brothers meant for this to be a reveal to the pinball community. But, I mean, clearly they agreed to allow this prototype to show up in this pop-up store. And this pop-up store is called Queen the Greatest. And it's got a lot of memorabilia and stuff, you know, merch for Svale regarding the band Queen.
    16:51
    And so in terms of what it looks like, I've been trying to follow the thread a bit. And there's some images over, Tony, if you haven't seen yet. I dropped in for us internally a little video clip that showed very, very, very little amount of the pinball machine. And then Pinball News has some much better photos available. But, I mean, I would describe it as a almost fan-ish style approach, at least initially. You've got a lot of laid out shots. However, I mean, it's not a fan layout. Let me clarify that. So because there is an upper play field with a single flipper in the upper right corner, They do have what call them scolari drops that appear to be blocking the rightmost shot, the center right. There's a dead center ramp and there's a shot to the right of that ramp and a shot to the left of that ramp. The one on the left has some sort of like kick out hole or something. Those are all guarded by these drop targets that you would think of like scolari brother style. Or maybe people are familiar with Cactus Canyon, kind of like Cactus Canyon style. And then I believe, based off of the original designer, that the drop targets on the left that look like the keyboard keys of the piano, like if you drop those white drop targets down, I believe there's supposed to be stand-ups behind those that are like the black keys.
    18:17
    So the designer who worked on Queen, because Queen was a highway pinball license for those that don't know. and so that's one of the assets that pinball brothers had uh in the wake of everything that happened with highway pinball the designer who had been working on it is active on pin side and so he's weighed in that a lot of this is the same as what he last worked on though this game is not a wide body and highway pinball was all wide bodies so they did make changes to accommodate that and some other stuff.
    18:52
    And I would say initially, because obviously the game's not playable, some people like the look of the layout. I can't say that it's been overwhelmingly supported. The main thing is people have been dogging the art big time. Big time. I think I mean, this is probably grossly unfair, but I like the Translight in particular is hated and I would say I think everyone is wishing that Zombie Yeti would just come in and Marvel Method this.
    19:18
    I'm sorry, Jeremy. I was going to say, like he does everything else. I mean, to be fair, it's kind of already there. I mean, there's tons of orange and yellow going on. It's kind of what he does. But the headshots. Yeah, that's the thing is people and the headshots are so bad. The people will wish that. Now, there was a picture of someone else who had done draft queen art that was rejected. and it was caricature style in a way that I personally would have described as creepy. And I actually think this is superior to going that route, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But this definitely is going to be, in my view, reminiscent of the Photoshop era that people do not like. Yeah.
    20:05
    So, I mean, that's really all there is. I mean, we don't have any rules or anything to discuss. It sounded to me from what I've read that this game in terms of, I guess, pinball ready announcement is at least six months out.
    20:19
    But what are your thoughts? I mean, my initial thought would be like the theme. This is a this is a smart one to do for a band theme. Like Queen is beloved. It's old enough that it falls into dad rock. but it's different than a lot of the other bands were that have been done at the same time.
    20:45
    But looking at this art, I'm just like, I mean, it's not a good first impression. No, it's not. And like most games, until we actually see it played, who knows what it will actually end up being. I just want to go on record that the pedigree does not give me confidence in what it will be because, you know, Pinball Brothers' entire startup in existence is one of those things that is shaky enough as is. Yeah, I felt that the original, the Highway Designer was a little, I get it, a little defensive about some of these concepts predate Guns N' Roses coming out. So, you know, some people might look at some things like the guitar upper play field with the single flipper and be like, well, you've stolen that idea from Guns N' Roses. Obviously, he didn't. So I understand, you know, I understand why you wouldn't want to have people think that this was just a clone of something that just recently came out or something. But, yeah, I just, until I understand what the rules are and how it's going to play, it's difficult to know. I personally don't think the layout looks bad. The shooter lane has artwork. Interesting. Now, I'm not a huge fan of these plunge across the playfield shooters. And that almost entirely comes down to being burned way too many times on Stern Star Wars. And I've played plenty where that doesn't happen. Well, like Led Zeppelin, it has a plunge across that I haven't had major issues with. I guess I did have one ball go out yesterday because of that, but I still have ball saves, so it's okay. But so, yeah, yeah, according to the Pinball News article, there are three stand-ups behind the four piano drop targets. It's got spinners. It's got, yeah. Now, one of the things that you can see in some of the, I don't know about this, the inserts, and then there's art that's centered on the inserts that doesn't stay just on the inserts. Like there's a shot of the left orbit entrance that Pinball News has, And you can see a square insert where a symbol extends beyond, well beyond the borders of that insert and the lion with a crown. And part of the crown's on the insert and part of the crown's not. And part of the lion's mane's in the insert and part of it's not. And the reason I note that is there's been so much backlash to the way the text on the inserts, or at least one insert, in Halloween is. And people have been up in arms about that. I just don't think that they're going to like the idea of this not just containing the art onto the insert itself, and the insert serves as the borders of those particular images.
    23:31
    Minor, in my view, but some people, you know, it's a big deal. I mean, they've got other parts where you can see in that same image, like behind the stand-up, the drop target that's protecting that hole, that it's like they're just inserts, and they just overlaid art on top of it, where they just kind of glow as a backlight. I think it's weird. I don't think most people are going to like it But I mean Whatever So I don't have anything else to say We'll find out more later I don't have a good feel on Pinball Brothers You know they're turning out Aliens They've got their LV Limited version Because you know they couldn't do LE Of course And so that was something I put it in our show notes to talk about Because it's just you know it's got a few other things It's got a cool back glass but other than that, I wasn't really all that impressed, especially at the price point. But, you know, I guess they're pushing those out. But, again, that was a game that people knew from Highway. They've made modifications to it to be more reliable. Yeah, and I think that was, it needed that.
    24:40
    But some people are annoyed because some of the stuff that came out of it was some of the, you know, some of the cool stuff. It sort of like reminds me in a way of Jersey Jack pinball and pirates and how some people, I mean, love pirates. But there are a lot of people that decided they weren't going to get the game once it wasn't going to have triple spinning disc because that was the cool innovation.
    25:03
    Aside from the rocking ship, which, of course, stayed. But anyway, second topic is actually Jersey Jack, but not about pirates. We actually in our EclecticGamersPodcast.gmail.com Got a press release notification From Scorebit is the It's actually a third party tool Application that can record and upload Scores and stuff but Jersey Jack Has partnered with them in a way They fully embraced embedding Scorebit Into their systems when they leave the factory So it was the announcement That achievements are available for Jersey Jack games starting with Willy Wonka Which was immediate So I think the big discussion was, so does Jersey Jack, are they the first company to have achievements in a pinball machine? Question mark. Because the Godzillas hadn't shipped yet.
    25:57
    I have an answer. What's your answer? Who cares? That's kind of funny. I have to admit, to me, it felt a little bit like, let's try it. we got to get this out because Godzilla has it out. Yeah. I'm almost positive. It's hard. The timing could not in a way either be better or worse. I agree. Who really cares? If you want my, my interpretive, you know, we want me to take a position. My interpretation answer would be no. Godzilla was first because they live streamed it and the players were earning the achievement. So the achievement system was clearly online, but you don't happen to have, have it in, in the operators' locations yet, in a way it was kind of moot because the system is actually publicly live. Right. So that would be my take.
    26:46
    I thought it was kind of interesting that it was just Wonka. That's what read to me like, oh, you really rushed to get this. Well, yeah, and I'm surprised that if they rushed and could only get one out, that the one they got out was Wonka.
    26:59
    And not Guns N' Roses? And not GNR. Yeah, that was the other thing. I mean, I kind of see going further back where score bits probably weren't there.
    27:10
    And Jersey Jack has announced that they are building more Wonkas, even though they're not done building the GNRs, which I go, huh? Except Stern does this all the time. Let's announce a new game. We still can't. It's like we can't. We can't make Mandalorian fast enough. Let's launch Godzilla. They're not going to make Godzilla fast enough by the time that John Borg's game is announced, which is said to be, I guess, I don't know. Some people are really hung up on wanting to hear rumors on shows. So if you hadn't heard yet, the rumor is it's Borg next. The rumor is it's in December, and the rumor is it's Rush, the band.
    27:46
    So there you go. There's your rumor. Do you feel better as people now? Because to me, it's like it's meaningless. It's practically meaningless. Though I do like Rush Yeah That's the only thing I can quote from Rush Hmm They're like two songs I listen to with Rush And I don't have either of them in my mp3 player So It's not a bad choice Of a band For Yeah it's been in demand I'm so tired Of band things? Band pins? Of band pins and And all the band pins being just the same thing.
    28:30
    Well, what do you want them to be? What do you mean? I mean, like, do you want the same thing being just like you pick a song and you play it? Well, no, no, no, not that. No, I mean, it's just, we're still, can we segue from dad rock? Don't get me wrong. I get it. Okay. A quarter to a third of my playlist on my MP3 playlist is dad rock. But really, can we get something from, you know, the 90s?
    29:07
    Maybe. Can we get something that's not? Green Day could be any day, Tony. I don't know. Get something where somebody didn't kick out their greatest hits album, you know, within five years of me being born?
    29:24
    Maybe someday. That's a fair point. And it's one many pinball enthusiasts have raised. But the dad rocks are guaranteed sales. Though, you know, I've heard Led Zeppelin did not sell that good for Stern. So maybe that, no. I don think it the band No And especially after looking I mean just oh my gosh I sorry Those pros do not make you want to own that game They don at all Maybe the premium. One of our other players was talking to Gordon, and it sounds like he's played a premium, and he really, you know, with a spinner that lifts out. I'm like, yeah, that's like Iron Monger coming out of the play field. Difference was the Iron Monger was on all the versions. Right. And here we are with a warp ramp that isn't a ramp. I'm sorry. I don't care how good the rules are. It's just like, it's so empty. Yeah, it is definitely not. I mean, you can do a lot with basic pinball features if you want to go like full, like Beatles style and do single level and do some creative stuff. But don't just like the sort of standard Richie. Anyway, I'm whining. So let's move on to the third and final pinball topic, which is not something to whine about. So a little more information on Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon remake. And I'll have a link to the International Flipper Pinball Association's website announcement of this. But for those that want to read more.
    30:47
    But Lyman Sheets and Josh Sharp are partnering with CGC in order to make the enhanced software for the Cactus Canyon remake. Now, I had heard, and I believe we had discussed it before. I know I've talked about it before, that Lyman Sheets, I've been hearing for months that he was contracted with CGC. See, some people, I guess, got a little confused because CGC denied that Lyman Sheets worked for them. Well, no, he's not an employee at CGC. But I had heard that he was contracted with CGC to finish the software. I had never heard that Josh Sharp was as well. but this there was another rumor I'll just keep throwing out rumors it's rumor time there's another rumor time well in this one again it's not because it's not pinball oriented but people love Lyman the rumor has been Lyman was hired by Raw Thrills which is where Josh Sharp works this would lend credence that that might be the case right but Raw Thrills doesn't make pinball machines so I don't really care if he's there or not good for them I've been hearing that Rothwells has been interested in trying to penetrate the home market with their arcade games.
    32:03
    Yes, Tony. I know that that would be what you were thinking, but we will name nothing. We will name nothing.
    32:12
    It's like Project FB. We're not going back into it. And so Lyman doing deep rule sets for arcade games might make them more viable in the home industry. I don't know. Anyway, does this make you more excited for the Cactus Canyon remake?
    32:33
    No, it doesn't for me either. Here's the thing. You can't fundamentally, in my mind, and I may be wrong, but in my mind, you can't fundamentally get away from what the original Cactus Canyon is. so you have to have all the same rules up to its incomplete point right so other than finishing it's like is this game going to be deep it should be 90s deep it shouldn't be like yeah it shouldn't be like lineman on batman 66 so while i think it may be with them well balanced fun and competitively viable which is something that perhaps the original version is not i don't know um there's nothing else to be excited about on it unless you love this game and its theme and i think if cactus canyon had been i think cactus canyon is a c-tier game if it had been finished maybe it would have been a b-tier game other people really love the layout i think the layout's fun it is so i think it could live with like a shadow or a braum stroker's dracula but i don't think it's an attack from mars or medieval madness style i agree with you so yeah it's one of those things that i I mean, it's okay. I can see why it's the game they picked for next, but it's not going to be all, ooh. Its biggest weakness is they made less than 1,000 of them, so people don't know it.
    34:03
    And that's where this is smart. Having Lyman and Josh working on it may drive more people to buy it that otherwise wouldn't consider it. True. So in that regard, I think CGC has done a good idea. I think this is smarter than doing Cactus Canyon Remake. I know some people love the Cactus Canyon remake. Right. I've not played the remake, but just the name pedigree is where the power is. It's not actually about the quality of the girls. As long as, in my mind, they keep it at that 90s deep, and they don't try to pull the Hobbit on it. Yeah, I just don't think they would. I think, again, their license probably would let them, but... Yeah. I mean, we need to bear in mind that the next game from C... Okay, another rumor, if you hadn't heard this. The next game from CGC is not a remake. It's an original. I've heard that. And it's not Ben Hex original either. So given that, that's where I expect them to flex on depth of code. And maybe they're contracting with...
    35:05
    Maybe the plan is, if this goes well, to ask Lyman and Josh to do that rule set. because it would not surprise me if that rule set hasn't even started yet. Look how long this took to get out. Look how long Monster Bash took, and that wasn't new code.
    35:20
    They had to put it on their system, but it's not. They didn't have to make new rules. That's it that I have for Pinball Tony.
    35:28
    Video games. You get to start with video games. We had... Actually, this was a request. Jason Knapp, host of Knapp Arcade on Facebook, and he has a website now. He wanted to know if we would share any thoughts about Cruise and Blast for the Nintendo Switch. And I do have a link in the show notes to his review that he has on his website for those that want to read a review of someone who's actually played it. Have you played this Nintendo Switch game? Because I don't have a Switch. No. Okay. I have not either. I'm familiar with that Cruise and Blast was a series of arcade games, and I've probably played them, but here's the thing. All the driving games in the arcades blend to me. I've never had a favorite. I've never been able to tell them apart. I remember a bunch of sit-down ones where I would go and I inevitably get like eighth place and it asked me to put in more money. I'd be like, no, I'm going to go play Sinistar and get scared. So I don't really know Cruisin' Blast. However, I've been, I've seen a few other people on some of the discords, I believe, that I'm on. I think that's where I saw it. that have been enjoying it quite a bit. So I guess if you're familiar with the arcade stuff, you might want to check this out or read up on it a little bit and see if it's a good, because obviously buying a Nintendo Switch game is a lot easier than hauling around one of the cruising captains. Yeah, now that's true. So anyway, but FYI, it's out there, and it's getting some buzz from fans of the series, but I can't really comment.
    36:58
    You have some other Nintendo news. I have some other Nintendo news, because they had a direct that I watched. I actually watched the direct. Why do you watch the Directs when you don't have a Switch?
    37:08
    Because I was... I'm going to be 100% honest. Here's what it is. Yeah, you could be 110%. I'm just in for 110%. I got home from work, and I sat down, and I fired up the YouTubes, and I started watching my subscribed guys that put stuff out that day. And then the wife and kids are like, There's a Nintendo Direct. Do you want to come watch it with us? And I'm all like, We'd really like you to come watch the Nintendo Direct with us. And I'm like, okay, it's family time. So I went in and sat down and ate my dinner and watched a Nintendo Direct with the family. Aw. So what did you learn during family time? I learned that there are some game production people out there that my daughter really loves because she was, like, flipping out, super excited for games. So. But I'm not talking about any of those games. So. Yeah. And they were very angry because the grand total of the Animal Crossing announcement was that there's going to be an Animal Crossing direct in October.
    38:15
    No, that's now. It could be any day. I think personally probably the biggest thing that came out was the fact that there's an animated Mario movie being made. And for some reason, somebody, somewhere, decided that Chris Pratt is who you need to depict to voice Mario. Have you seen the image where it's the shot from Jurassic World, but instead of raptors, they're Yoshis? Yo, Jesus. Yeah.
    38:53
    I mean, the only thing I can figure out is that the necromancer they brought to try and res Bob Hoskins failed.
    39:06
    So they decided to go with one of the big, fancy, popular people right now. I have such a hard time seeing Chris Pratt in that role. I just...
    39:18
    Okay. We'll see. I'll give it a try. We'll let it see. And then the other big ones, they've got Anna Taylor, Joy is Peach. I don't think I've ever seen her in anything. I looked her up. I've never watched any of the stuff she's in. So I can't tell you. Charlie Day is Luigi. Man, John Leguizamo is still acting. Yeah. There is no reason. I'm sure he would love the role. This is a direct slight. Unless he was offered it and turned it down. Yeah, but it's his iconic role. I know, I know, but hey.
    39:58
    They've got Jack Black playing Bowser. You know what? I'm fine. Nacho can be Bowser. I'm perfectly fine with Nacho being Bowser. It's cool. He's going to do a School of Rock character is what it's going to be. Bowser's going to sing a song. No. Jack Black is going to play Jack Black every character Jack Black has ever played was Jack Black the question is just how many antidepressants was he on at the time he played the role Jack Black and Enemy of the State was very serious Jack Black and everything after people actually recognized his name wasn't So They've got Keegan Michael Key As Toad I kind of want to hear his Toad voice But then I just want to If he's got a good Toad voice Maybe it's his regular voice I hope it's not his regular voice I hope he goes for the squeakier Toad voice I'm the best Oh yeah And then I can't wait for people to Morph some of the old Key and Peele sketches using that voice.
    41:15
    And then I was like, me. What else did I... Seth. Oh, yeah. Seth Rogen as Donkey Kong. So, Stoner Kong. Okay. Because that's his one thing. Fine. I mean... Here's the thing. At this point, I'm interested in this movie as a train wreck that will bring the live action Super Mario Brothers to still being the best Super Mario Brothers movie. That would be awesome. I do. I have to admit, I am kind of wanting this to crash and burn. I do too. I feel bad because I think everyone's like, Nintendo is so gun-shy about doing entertainment. You know, they don't, like there's no Nintendo pinballs ever since the Super Mario Brothers. Right. And you know, kind of that Gottlieb Street Fighter era for video game stuff in general. And I think some gamers are kind of like, yeah maybe this would kick start yeah they went obviously we're in the video game segment so their thing is like why isn't there more like movies and stuff using these video game properties we used to see that stuff all the time when we were kids but um you know maybe that's maybe maybe not you know most video games we still see video game movies people just don't remember because they're so bad like the Warcraft movie which I didn't see because I heard it was bad Blood Rain I own that one because it's so cringe fun it's so cringe and fun and i see ben kingsley they're trying to be this vampire and i'm like you were in gandhi man what happened to you what happened to you were gandhi and this is what you've become go back to being the mandarin wasn't that the one where it was cheaper to just hire a bunch of hookers yes the higher they were filming in i I remember it was in Romania or Poland or somewhere. I think it was in Eastern Europe. And Uwe Boll was the director of that film. And he indicated to hire extras for his brothel scene. He found that it was just cheaper to hire local prostitutes to play. And people were so critical of him. And he's like, well, they got money. So I think it was good. I'm like, yeah, well, so did Billy Zane. He got money too.
    43:32
    Billy Zane. You were the Phantom, man. What happened to you? What happened to you, Billy Zane? The thing, of all the major Nintendo, you know, no, tentpole franchises, I understand.
    43:50
    Mario is the big, huge one. But seriously, for the ones that would make the best translation to movies, why in the crap have you not gone with Zelda or Metroid and that's where I mean looking at this and I would agree I think Metroid could make I mean you could do like a it's Nintendo so they never would you could do like a live action Metroid and do it almost like alien sci-fi horror style it could be it could make a really good film and in terms of like animated movies I do agree Zelda seems to make a lot more sense because the plots that you could I mean if you wanted to take from a game for example they got like a storyline that isn Yeah Save the Princess So to me though you look at this and it like okay no Nintendo's playing it safe. We're using our biggest of all the tent poles, and we're going to Hollywood this big time. We're not doing anime voice actors. We're bringing in big A-list actor guns, Princess Mononoke style, and we're going to just say you have to see this because if you don't like Mario, you like Jack Black. And if you don't like Jack Black, then you like Chris Pratt. You're going to hope that he's going to have a raccoon on his shoulder as Mario. And a raptor.
    45:14
    Name. Chris. Mario in the Tanooki suit, so he looks like a raccoon. Yes! And he could call himself Rocket Tanooki.
    45:28
    I'm excited. it's going to be interesting it's a long way out they're talking like holiday 22 so the next big announcement to me the one that actually interested me Bayonetta 3 beloved game announced like four years ago I think it was like in 17 it was announced the Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2 were two of the first games I got for my Switch when I had a Switch before the Switch was claimed by others.
    46:04
    I've always enjoyed the Bayonetta games. They've been a lot of fun. So I might even try to get it... No, I'm not. When I brought up that I might borrow the Switch back to play a game and the first thing was, oh, we might need a new Switch anyway. You could get that new fancy version that has four... Oh, wait. Oh, wait, no. Poor Switch Pro Everybody wants it so bad Poor Switch, what happened to you Switch Pro? You were on Reddit You had it made What happened to you Switch Pro? The fact that Bloomberg Put out a new article Saying that All these companies had 4K Development kits for the Switch So obviously The 4K Switch is coming To be immediately followed the next day by Nintendo coming out and making an announcement saying like, nah, man, we already told you. The only new Nintendo coming out is the OLED. There's nothing else.
    47:07
    Welcome to the Internet. So Bayonetta, big news. Bayonetta. Nintendo, their online thing that you have to pay so you get online access, you know, their version of Live, is adding an expansion pack, is what they're calling it. It's an additional subscription service. So it just adds, we don't know how much yet because they haven't announced how much, to your subscription for your yearly subscription. But it will include N64 and Sega Master Drive games that you get for free.
    47:44
    I'd say cool, but without knowing the price, I can't. I know, that's the problem. without knowing the price, I don't know. I know because they're looking at their time out. Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox 64, Ocarina of Time 64, Echo the Dolphin 64, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 64, and a bunch of others.
    48:06
    But, yeah, until I know the price, if it's an extra five bucks a year, cool. If it's an extra five bucks a month, eh. I mean, it doesn't matter to me. I'm never going to play them anyway. But they are also releasing pro controllers that look like the original N64 controller and the original Sega Master System controller. Okay, that's nice. So you can get actual Bluetooth controllers. Get your full classic experience. Get the whole experience. Monster Hunter Rise Which was a huge game This year I've heard multiple people talking about it for game of the year Oh really It won't get it It won't but I've heard people talking about it I've also heard a lot of people Saying that at the bare minimum it will be the switch Game of the year I don't think it will get that either But we'll see But they're putting out a major paid expansion next year that's basically another game. With a whole bunch of additions and changes. I've never played a Monster Hunter. I haven't either. I know my daughter has, she doesn't have Rise. She's played the demo to Rise and she loves it. So it's on her birthday list. But she hasn't, she doesn't have it yet. But I know a lot of people who they play all the Monster Hunter games.
    49:35
    It's a little grindy, I think. It always seemed like it was a kind of grindy game. Yeah. Square Enix is kicking out a Final Fantasy themed Mario Kart game. Hmm. So you can get to do Chocobo GP. It's a racing game with Final Fantasy characters. There you go. And we found out that they announced that they're going to announce the final Super Smash character.
    50:10
    They'll announce it on Tuesday. It's the 5th. So we don't know who the final Super Smash character is. No, and we couldn't delay this episode to tell you. Right. Also, we don't care. But here's the thing. If they're announcing the final Super Smash character, that means they're done with Super Smash, which means they probably have already started development or about to start development of the follow-up Smash game. Super Melee. Super Melee Smash for 64. I can't wait for everyone who's fans of the GameCube version to yet again refuse to move on. Yeah. Well, that's my question is, do we see main stage EVO with three Smash games?
    50:52
    There was one year, I think, where they did have three. And I think there was backlash to it. And rightly so. Because they had two, and then they had the third game where people got to vote on the game, and people chose another Smash game. Yes.
    51:08
    Good on them for having a loyal fan base, but bad on them for ruining it for the rest of us. I understand. I think Smash is a fun game. I really enjoy playing Smash.
    51:20
    It, to me, is a lot like watching pinball. It's nowhere near as much fun. It's why I don't watch a lot of pinball streaming Because it's not fun You watch it for a little while And then you go do other things So We'll see what happens And then Oh no I completely missed a whole section Amazon launched New World Oh I've been hearing I've been seeing jokes about this It's I've been reading a lot of stuff it's very mixed there's a lot of things people love about it I've heard a lot of good things about the audio and the graphics and the actual gameplay and the combat stuff is all very good at the same time I've heard all of the quests and the storylines lines and everything is super grindy super repetitive and very much what you expected out of an MMO that would have come out in like 10 so it is not up to the current level of where most games have gone there's lots of repetitive fetch quests so it's very much a FedEx simulator I mean that was back when I was doing MMOs I mean that was the thing let's see that's the thing because with me playing Final Fantasy 14 it's not like that at all which is just such a difference from like original Warcraft so we'll see part of the problem is that they're having huge queue times which brand new game super popular MMO they weren't set up for it that's understandable I'm not going to ding them for that if that did not have happen considering they launch and they're hitting like 800,000 concurrent players I would have been in shock what's interesting is they cap every server at like 2,000 players oh okay like concurrent or just just period period okay wow so they've got so the so the each individual server population is very low yes that's really small and which could be problematic when you want to do stuff like play with your friends yeah i mean because it sounds like the server would fill up right away right and so you would you'd have to transfer to a new server and maybe keep transferring if you had new people coming along every few months that you wanted to play. Okay, yeah. That doesn't sound like... I mean, unless they've made the transfer process simple. Right. Or if they've made it so that everything is... I don't know. Maybe they've made it so everything is instanced.
    54:32
    I'm not sure. So it's weird. I've not played it myself, but we will see how it goes. it seems like they've got a solid foundation that they can hopefully build from and learn from the mistakes other companies made 15 years ago and you know make the game more matching what people are expecting from an MMO at this day and age. Well, at least we got through the show without any Activision. Wouldn't that have been nice? I thought we were going to No you didn't I did No you did not I totally thought we were You would never be free Up until you know The other day Since we can't go on an episode without talking about them Activision Blizzard Has settled with The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission Which has been Investigating them on the federal level Right I don't even know if we announced this in the last episode I think the announcement of the yeah I think the announcement of this investigation came after our last episode it's already been settled so what they did was they settled they have to make a bunch of changes with documentation and you know training and stuff but part of their settlement is they have to They have to pay $18 million to create a fund for those who have experienced sexual harassment, pregnancy discrimination, and or related retaliation or constructive discharge to the EEOC to set up for their employees to apply for. And then the EEOC will hand out relief awards based upon their investigations of each case and everything.
    56:39
    Here's the thing. $18 million for Activision Blizzard is a rounding error. That's not a fine. That's not, it's literally 0.002% of their revenue from last year. Well, is the $18 million meant to be a penalty fee, fee or is it just what they estimated as would be necessary to adequately fund this? I'm assuming it's what they estimated would be required to adequately fund the thing. Because if the goal was, no, we're fining you as a punitive measure, then this is a joke. Right. If it's a, no, you need to set up a fund to pay for all the people you've wronged, I could see $18 million being estimated as being reasonable. It's just, it's harsh because the Bobby Kotick's pay package that they approved back in June, it's literally 11% of his. Well, he does make pretty good money. Almost Lula Rue great. Almost.
    57:43
    It's just, yeah. We'll see how it goes. This does not stop the SEC investigation. This doesn't stop California's suit or the lawsuit that was brought up by the employees themselves. so I think the most interesting thing we'll see is as those start working their way through the system more is how the shareholders respond to Bobby next year when his stuff comes up again yeah we'll have to see but I unless the stock takes a big tank and I think he's been positioning himself to not come across like he is the bad guy in the scenario. Right. You know, he's gone and fixed some of the prior statements. So I think he's, as much as I'm not a fan of him, I think he's been positioning himself well to keep his job. Yeah. So I don't expect a change at that level. But we'll see what happens. We'll have to wait and see. Speaking of waiting and seeing, people will have to wait a couple of weeks until they can hear, not see, but hear our next episode of the Collected Gamers podcast. but if you have things you want to reach out about or suggestions on topics for us to cover you can always email us at eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com or go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast and shoot us a message we're available on twitch twitter and instagram as eclectic underscore gamers and that's it we'll be back in a couple weeks and maybe that time Tony will almost super duper promise no Activision maybe probably not it's going to have to be big because I'm tired about talking I'm tired you don't understand how tired I am I'm so tired. So tired. But until that episode airs, I'm Dennis. I'm Tony. Goodbye, everybody. See ya.