I'm going to let everybody actually introduce themselves. We've got a good crew. We've got a number of folks who do things very differently. Why don't we do quick intros? So I run a podcast that I started back in January called The Pinball Innovators and Makers. You may have heard of it. You may not. If you're in this room, it's either because you care about this topic or because you wanted a good seat for the JJP reveal. So, you know, we'll pick what it is. So here, why don't we start down there? You go first. My name is Aaron Davis. I have a company called Fast Pinball. We make electronics that people use to build pinball machines. So I tell people I started this company so I could build pinball machines, and I've built zero complete pinball machines, but I've helped a lot of people make a lot of really great stuff. And so these shows are a great chance to get together and see what everybody makes. So these people are the ones who are making all this great stuff, and making pinball is awesome. So Aaron Davis, Fast Pinball. My name is John Manuelian. Everybody knows me as Lynn, so call me Lynn. I won't answer to John. Stop that. There is no off button on that. Oh, is there? Where was I? Hey, I'm Lynn. And I make homebrew games. I write video games for a living, but video games are not the same as mechanical pinball machines. So it fills an itch. It fills an itch, fills a gap. I'm Ernie Silverberg. I started out doing homebrewed. Just thought it was interesting. Had recently got into pinball, and I've always been a tinkerer. Built the League of Legends machine that's out there and have started on a Beavis and Butthead pinball machine. This is the only time I'm going to mention this, but I do sell homebrew kits. I don't want to advertise up here, but if somebody's really interested, they are welcome to ask me questions. I don't have to buy anything, but I like to see what people come up with. I love to see homebrew games. I get more excited about people building games that are not from the big companies than I do from the big companies. Yeah, same. My name's Greg Bolt. I'm out of Colorado Springs, Colorado. I've been a tinker, just like Ernie, most of my life, doing little electronic gadgets. I've always wanted to build a pinball machine. So two years ago, I was like, all right, I think I'm ready at that point in my life to do it. And so I did Beer Fest. So if you give Beer Fest a play, that's me. Hope you enjoy it. It's been a fun process, and meeting the community and interacting with the community is one of my favorite things ever. I love coming to these things and just hanging out. Forgot to mention I made Haunted Antonio Cruz and Magic Forest. so we uh we actually have just about 20 custom and uh and homebrew pinball machines on the floor most of them are in the corner in the the homebrew custom section there are a few sprinkled out throughout the the the show as well so definitely uh you know walk around check and check them out every single one of those is a labor of love um so just an honest quick poll here who here is actually here for this session and not just here to get good seats for jjp all right that that that That's a good critical mass. All right, so the first place I want to start, I've had 14 guests on the podcast. A number of the people on the stage have been on there. And one common theme is how to get started. Like people just don't have a good place of where to get started. And so I wanted to go down. And the great thing about every single person's journey is that everybody does it differently. There is no one way to do this. There's no one way to skin this cat. So I figured if you guys can each talk about what was the first thing you did. Did you start with theme? Did you start with mechanicals? Do you start, you know, and talk about if you would do that again the same way or if you do it differently knowing now what you, knowing then what you know now. I'll go first. Yeah, so two years ago, decided to start a pinball machine. And the first thing I did was come up with a theme. I sat down with my wife, and we mulled some things over, and we had just watched the movie Beer Fest, and we loved Beer Fest, and I like drinking beer. So I decided to make a fun beer-drinking theme game. So that's kind of where I started. And then I went to VPX. I just started building out a play field and seeing what shots worked, what shots didn't. I didn't even own a pinball machine two years ago. I own the one I made now. So it was a little difficult for me. specifically getting measurements for things. I know there's not really a standard, but there are standards out there. And that was actually a difficult piece for me is trying to figure out how high do I put my play field mount tracks. You know, it was surprisingly difficult to find that on the Internet. And so, yeah, I just kind of started going to the Internet. Forums were a huge benefit. Meeting guys like Ernie, that would help me out. I'd be like, hey, could you tell me the distance between your outlanes and inlanes? It's seriously like that low level of issues that I just didn't know the answers to. So that's kind of where I started. And after doing VPX for a couple weeks VPX is a visual pinball for those that don know You can create your play field and it also has a simulated gameplay so you can kind of get a feel for how your shots are working That's kind of where I started and then after a couple weeks of that, I bought some whitewood. Bought some plywood and just started screwing things in and a lot of 3D printing. You'll see a lot of 3D printing on my machine. That was my go-to because I'm not a great woodworker, metal worker. So for me, it's, hey, I can do a lot of good mouse clicks. And then a few hours later, I got a part. It's very precise into dimensions. And so that's kind of where I started that prototyping. I got started. I had built a virtual pinball machine, had that for about a month and decided that the real thing was better. And with the price of pinball machines, especially kind of during COVID, they were outrageous. that I was looking into. I was like, I'll just build my own machine. Started out with a Gottlieb Touchdown, and I was like, I'll just re-theme it, start there. But with it being single level, I wanted ramps, different things. It was very limited. So I was like, all right, I'm not doing that. I won't like it. So then I kind of just, these guys have heard this before, but I just jump headfirst into things I don't really think. So I bought a piece of wood and started drilling holes. And then that worked. okay, but not the best. Found Greg through just research online and he had 3D printed, came up with a design for a 3D printed trough and outlane walls and things like that. So he actually let me use his files and started off there and started coming up with shots. And it was more of a physical, I didn't do anything on the computer. So I just did everything physical. I'd make a shot. If it worked, cool. I liked that. If it didn't, I would cover that hole and then drill a new one. But did that and then I worked through locally, I found a guy that had a CNC machine, he had a CNC shop and worked with him to design some blank white woods and things like that. So I started off a little bit better with actual two dimension things and started using CAD to make cut files and transferred what I did on the play field to an actual illustrator file and had that cut and kind of have went from there. I don't jump quite headfirst anymore. I make educated guesses at where I jumped before, but there's all ways to start. The biggest thing is don't be scared. You can mess something up and fix it. It's not hard to do that. So I'll jump in here. I'm working on my own machine, but I'm at the very early stages of it. And one of the first things that I realized I needed to do was actually talk to people, which is why I started the podcast. I'm genuinely interested in the space and I wanted to learn as much as I could about what people did. And so, you know, by you showing up to the forum here by, you know, we have a session tomorrow from, I believe, two to four, where you can actually meet all everybody up here along with everybody else who built a machine and actually sit and talk to folks with, with their machines and actually have, you know, more intimate discussions. And so meeting people, talking to them, really finding a community, there's plenty of great resources out there, which we're happy to share. And then the second thing is I've found that crafting through the theme and in talking to a number of people crafting through the theme and really understanding what is the world under glass that you want to create if you actually want to create like some type of theme game it's usually a good place to start because then the rest of the game kind of unfolds like you know if you want to do a muppet pinball machine having Waldorf and Statler sitting out there making fun of you as a topper it's a great place to start. So around 2007, the development studio I was working for decided they wanted to make a PS3 pinball machine. So that's how I got started. I had to figure out how to make a pinball machine or what a pinball machine really was because we knew what it was, but what are these rules? What is that? So luckily, the simplest game that you could think of was at the Monster mini golf nearby that we went to play, Simpsons Pinball Party. Very, very simple game, right, to understand the rules. So we learned how to play on that. And we made this PS3 game called Pinballistic. It's a downloadable game. It's a heads-up game. It's really cool. But that's kind of where I jumped headfirst into because I was told I had to do it. But as other people said, virtual just isn't the same as the real thing. And so I bought a Mario Brothers pinball. I started playing it, and I said, screw it. I'm going to make my own. So I just started designing things in 3D Studio Max and then switched over to SolidWorks and things. And it just kind of snowballed from that. Hi. Hi. So I got started with Pinball, it was probably like 15 years ago or so, and I'd been in software for a long time, so it's very heady and you're not doing much creative physically. And so what I really enjoyed most about Pinball was it has defined properties. It has a certain shape, certain size, certain things that make it pinball. And I also like technology, so the idea of bringing in new technology in a way that could enhance and bring more to pinball, but not necessarily change it into something that it's not. So I, in my software career, was building platforms. And so like I looked at most of what I do in building pinball It like you know here something I can make and what else can we make with it So some of the first things I built for pinball were if you been to the Northwest Pinball Show you seen the they call it the kids pinball machine And it was basically like a pinball machine with a lower third and the play field was made of metal. It was just a sheet of metal up there and it was designed so you could take kids toys with magnet feet on it and kids could come up there and lay out different games and then shoot the ball and see what would happen. And that was, that was pretty fun. And then beyond that I made, you can see it in the booth right now. It was 10 years ago I brought a portable pinball machine to the Chicago Expo. I needed to make a demo of some of the electronics that we had, and I took an Aztec play field and cut it in three pieces. It folds up into a cube, and it will check with your luggage on the plane. And so that was like a really interesting physical form factor of pinball, but a different slant to it. So I like the traditional aspect of pinball and the creation of pinball from like an art standpoint. So I think that there's just certain traditions about pinball that we all love, And I think that we all bring to it different experiences, whether it's from, like, video game design or, like, different creative mediums. But applying that to pinball is, like, really satisfying to see what that comes out like. Cool. Thank you. So the next question for the panel is, you know, pinball is this multi-discipline, multi-specialty physical system. And everybody approaches building a pinball machine with a different set of knowledge. So the question for the panel is, what is the thing that you brought to the table? Like, what is the expertise or the skill set? And what is the thing that you felt you had to learn, like, let's call it the most, in order to deliver the machine? yeah so ever since i was junior high high school i've always been fascinated with electronics and electricity so um for 20 30 years that's what i would do i would make little gadgets micro controllers low level embedded programming um at that kind of of layer so i've always been comfortable with the electronics part of things and the software part of things. What I was not really comfortable with was more of the mechanical things. I'm not a good metal worker, woodworker, hence a lot of my machine is 3D printed because, you know, I can make it look nice, at least mildly nice that way. And artwork. I've never been a great artist. I've gotten better after having done this but that was one thing that really scared me I did that last is like oh man what am I going to do for art now you know all I have is a single piece of wood so yeah I think art and and the more metal and woodworking were that's what I struggled with. Thank you. I would say that one of the benefits that helped myself get into it was the the jumping head first into it. And I mean that in a way that there's a lot of people that are afraid to do something because they're not sure how it'll work or they'll mess up. And it's honestly the negative about it is the same thing because sometimes I would take three steps back and you know, three steps forward and then five steps back because I didn't think something exactly through. But once I made that mistake, I was able to learn what not to do again, design it a little bit better and move on. And over the course of the last year and a half or so, I would say that that has been my benefit and somewhat my downfall. I've always kind of been a tinkerer with all kinds of stuff, electronics, mechanical, different things. So there were some things to learn there. But one thing I would mention is that there are resources for all kinds of things. If you're not strong at wood, there's local CNC shops. There's different people that offer things. Fiverr is an app where you can pay somebody to do art for you. If you look at the art on League of Legends, I paid somebody to do that. Pretty reasonable as well. So there's circuit boards on Fiverr. People will design circuit boards for you for custom things. So there's availability everywhere. Oh, me. What was the question? What did you bring to the table? Oh, what did I bring to the table? So I'm a software engineer by trade, right? So writing assembly, writing binary, you know, bare metal stuff, that's fun. That's easy, C++ easy stuff. Some of the woodwork was a little more difficult, especially when you don't have a CNC machine, so I bought a CNC machine. Some of the plastic work and ramp work is difficult to do because of the type of forming, so I bought a thermoforming machine. I'm in the process of buying a plasma cutter machine for metal work because that's the next hump I have. Don't do what I'm doing. Don't buy these machines. There are other places you can go for this. I'm the idiot. Guys, don't. But I'm also that idiot that realizes, hey, I'm doing this so many times, I should just buy the machine. That way, if I screw something up, then it's on me to fix it, and it's not some other person who owns the machine that hits me on the head. So a lot of it was just figuring out the manufacturing aspects of things that I just, I didn't quite know. I knew enough but thankfully there YouTube and thankfully there the Internet these days That kind of what I had to figure out What I brought to the table Video game knowledge game development knowledge Lynn is the kind of friend you want to have making pinball. Because he's apparently got all the tools to do it. Let's see. And Aaron is the kind of guy who says, hey, let me use your tools. No. I'd convince you it was my, your idea to let me use your tools. but when I first started doing this I think that a lot of what I'm into is the chance to learn something new like a new skill or a new chance to do something new and so 15 years ago I'd not done much with electronics at all in my life and I think that once I realized that pinball was something I wanted to do I realized that was something I needed to know so my friend Dave Beecher who's my partner in Fast Pinball one of the greatest engineers I've ever met in my life and he's that rare engineer that wants you to know everything that he knows So everything that I learned through making pinball came out of having a great mind there that wanted me to know these things. And so the more that I learned, the more I wanted to know. And so I think that for me, my experience with pinball has been an exposure to a lot of different disciplines and skills and stuff like that that I didn't know I needed to know. Like being able to use like CNC machines or do more advanced wood cutting or like 3D printing and stuff like that. It is an endless supply of cool problems to solve. Like it's like a STEM class in a literal box. like it's fascinating I mean my kids get involved with it all that kind of stuff so I think that pinball has definitely been a good reason to learn a lot of really great stuff and meet a lot of great people but I'd say like what I tend to bring to things is like in my career it's been like how do you make something into something like how do you take an idea and turn it into something and I think that that's kind of the product mind that I have so I think that seeing a lot of other people's cool ideas that kind of get to points where it's kind of a germination of an idea or starting point and I love the idea of being able to like cheer them on and like point like hey what you're doing here if you added this maybe it could be this you know and i think that's one of the great things about the pinball community is there's so much collaboration and camaraderie but i think one of the other big things is the accountability too is that like you show me something i'll tell you great that sounds like a great idea i hope that you do it and then i'll ask you about it later did you actually do it and if you tell me like oh i watched crap tv all weekend i didn't actually do it you know i might shame me a little bit and remind you you should do it but i think that's one of the things i tend to bring to things I love to see an idea and I love to see it brought all the way through. And, you know, I'm a big cheerleader for a lot of people making great things. Complete with pom-poms. Sorry, guys. I love you guys. You know I do. I'm very supportive of the football community. We have an 8 o'clock. We also started 15 minutes late. I can't run into the other ones. We've got to keep this moving. I'm sorry. We're supposed to do a drawing. Do you want to take the next five minutes? No, can we take two questions from the floor? Sure. Okay. So we want to kind of inspire everyone who's interested, like take that first step, bring what you know to the table, go find community. If you have a question that you want to ask among the rest of the community, yeah, let's. What's the most surprising aspect of doing a promotion? You talk about woodworking, you talk about fabrication, software, or design and all that stuff. Is there something that, some aspect of it that was the most surprising that you didn't think you would need to understand but then you wound up having to figure out that you didn't expect? This physics engine that we live in sucks. You hit the ball flat and it decides to jump in the air. I mean, if you protect against everything you can, the ball will still find a way to go someplace you didn't want it to go. So yeah, we need to reprogram this physics engine. Anybody else want to? No, I think that was a good answer. Who's going to write the four dummies book about this? The question was who's going to write the four dummies book for all this? Is there interest for a four dummies book? There actually are a couple really good websites that break down step-by-step everything you need to do, how every mechanism works, how a machine comes together. Ernie, to his credit, does have a starter kit. Aaron also does do FAST. It's one of the control boards that's used, and not just used in the homebrew, but as you can see with Labyrinth, it's used in production systems as well as Fathom and others. Being that there isn't a book, I'm happy to write the book. I'll go do it. But seriously, given that there isn't a book on it, the next best thing is there's a couple of web resources, which we're happy to share with you. And come hang out tomorrow in the Humber space. Like, we love talking about this stuff. So we'll be there all weekend. One thing I want to mention quick, don't be afraid to fail, guys. You're going to fail a lot, and you're going to spend a lot of money in your failures, but that's part of learning. On that, it doesn't have to be an expensive hobby. Yeah, it doesn't. You can use recycled parts. Two o'clock tomorrow? Two o'clock tomorrow for you, Humber. Thank you. you