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Ep 42: Locked Up

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 24m·analyzed·Sep 12, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Pandemic lockdowns impact tournament travel; pricing out collectors from new machines.

Summary

Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins of Final Round Pinball Podcast host David Peck (Rotor Dave) from New Zealand to discuss pandemic-related lockdown impacts on international pinball travel and tournament attendance. The episode covers COVID-19 restrictions across ANZ, the challenges and costs of cross-border tournament travel, best practices for running efficient tournaments (focusing on Brisbane Masters and Jimmy Nails), Pinside forum culture and drama, machine restoration work, and market pricing trends that have priced out collectors from new Stern releases.

Key Claims

  • Melbourne is on track to become the longest locked-down city globally, surpassing a previous record of ~234 days

    high confidence · Martin Robbins (Australian host) discussing Victoria lockdown situation; stated as factual observation

  • New Zealand lockdown allows only supermarket and gas station visits; McDonald's and KFC are closed

    high confidence · David Peck describing strict NZ Alert Level 4 lockdown restrictions

  • Jeff Teolis was going to travel to Cleveland tournament but border restrictions and COVID test costs (~$1,200 total) made it prohibitive

    high confidence · Jeff describing personal tournament travel decision; factual account of his situation

  • Brisbane Masters has grown from ~40 people five years ago to 150 people at the most recent event, with potential for 200+ if all regional players had attended

    medium confidence · David Peck citing growth trajectory of Brisbane Masters tournament

  • David Peck hasn't purchased a brand new Stern machine in seven years (since ~2014), citing significant price increases

    high confidence · David Peck directly stating his buying pattern and reason

  • Star Trek LE in New Zealand increased in price by ~$2,000, contributing to Peck stopping new machine purchases

    medium confidence · David Peck citing specific example of price jump on Star Trek LE

  • Pinball LE machines cost ~$18,000 AUD in Australia (equivalent to ~$16,000 CAD)

    medium confidence · Martin Robbins confirming current LE pricing in Australia

  • David Peck has only yellow-carded one player in all of IFPA New Zealand history—his own grandchild for smashing a lockdown bar

    high confidence · David Peck recounting tournament enforcement anecdote

Notable Quotes

  • “Life's too short for moaning, especially in the pinball world. Most of us guys who are putting on tournaments... there's a hell of a lot of effort goes into it... If somebody is moaning about it and they're not happy, well, there's the door, buddy.”

    David Peck @ ~18:15 — Core philosophy on tournament organization and dealing with difficult community members

  • “the people that you can't please with a well-run tournament are people that you can never please because they don't want to be pleased. They don't want to be happy... they're doing everyone a favor, to be honest, including most of all the organizers”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~16:45 — Meta-commentary on community toxicity and tournament organization

  • “When you announce the tournament on IFPA, you've got to put the rules up as they are, and those are the rules you've got to use. So you can't actually, like IFPA legally, change the rules halfway through the tournament anyway.”

    David Peck @ ~20:30 — Clarification of IFPA tournament rules enforcement

  • “I haven't bought a brand new Stern machine for seven years now... the rate of the price increases on the new machines... I pretty much stopped buying them”

    David Peck @ ~47:45 — Direct statement on collector exit from new machine market due to pricing

  • “You can go around the world, and it's pretty cheap to jump in a car and drive around America. There's plenty of cheap hotels everywhere. You can eat cheap food everywhere.”

    David Peck @ ~34:00 — Reflective comment on why he could sustain his 'Rotor Dave's World Tour' travel pattern

  • “Pinsified is such a great resource... People help me. I get stuck sometimes fixing, especially the EM machines... Within half a day, I've got it fixed. But there's a few [problematic users]... probably 10 or 20 people on there that probably need to take a little bit of a step back”

    David Peck @ ~40:15 — Balanced assessment of Pinside value vs. toxicity from small user subset

Entities

Jeff TeolispersonMartin RobbinspersonDavid PeckpersonDanielle PeckpersonJimmy NailspersonFinal Round Pinball PodcastorganizationBrisbane Mastersevent

Signals

  • ?

    venue_signal: Brisbane Masters grows sustainably from 40 to 150+ participants; praised for efficiency, professional organization, and player-first approach under Jimmy Nails; demonstrates impact of well-run event management.

    high · David Peck and Jeff Teolis cite growth trajectory and praise tournament organization; Jeff notes 'if you run that efficient tournaments, you're going to get kudos from absolutely everyone'

  • $

    market_signal: New Stern machine pricing has pushed experienced collectors out of the new-machine market. David Peck (major collector/distributor) stopped buying new Sterns in 2013 (~7 years ago); LE pricing in ANZ now $16-18k AUD, representing $2-3k step increases that widened gap between Pro/Premium/LE tiers.

    high · David: 'I haven't bought a brand new Stern machine for seven years now... the rate of the price increases on the new machines... I pretty much stopped buying them'; Australia pricing $18k AUD confirmed by Martin

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinside forum experiences localized toxicity with recurring 20-30 problematic users in certain threads (Deep Root cited as example); despite strong community resource value, David Peck has reduced participation due to 'pylons' and pile-on behavior; suggests small subset of users dragging down community quality.

    high · David: 'some of the guys that have commented... it's just the same 20, 30 guys just piling on all the time... some of those guys probably need to have a little bit of a look at themselves'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pandemic-driven travel restrictions canceling or preventing major international tournament attendance (e.g., Jeff unable to attend Cleveland event; Indus impacted by Museum of Pinball closure; Brisbane Masters attendance affected by state lockdowns). Travel costs inflated ($1,200+ for short cross-border trips).

    high · Jeff: '11 twelve hundred dollars for something that's a simple four-hour drive'; David and Marty unable to attend Brisbane Masters due to border/state lockdown restrictions

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.255

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player. and Player vs. Machine. Welcome to the final round.
0:41
Hello once again, my name is Jeff Teolis. My name is Martin Robbins, a squeal-free Martin Robbins this fortnight. How are you, Jeff? I'm good, buddy. Sorry, what did you say? A squirrel-free?
0:55
Well, that's honestly what I thought you said. Squeal. Yeah, we had complaints from last episode where there was a very high-pitched tone through the recording. That was Ryan C.
1:09
That's funny. His part sounded fine, but maybe you just mean his voice in general. That was it. When you have to explain a joke, it's not a joke. I'm more worried that there's going to be squirrels in this podcast. I can deal with squeals. There could be.
1:26
It's a new recording technique this week. I'm using a USB mic in front of me, so if it starts fading off like this, that means that I'm moving away from the microphone. Anyway, there you go. Rest assured, he also has drink in hand.
1:42
Well, it's Father's Day here in Australia. I actually have my three daughters here, and I love my daughters very much. They are amazing. But being able to come into a room, talk to you and drink gin, it's still pretty good. That is interesting. So Father's Day in Australia, in New Zealand, I assume as well, is this time of year. We are in June. And when's your mother's day? Ours is May. I have no idea. Well done. We all know about my relationship with my mother. Oh, I know. But there's probably other mothers in your lives and things like that. So who knows? Listen, that's the one you got to remember, I believe. Birthday is kind of important too. But it is Father's Day. Happy Father's Day to you, Marty, and I guess to our special guest, also a father. We certainly know his wonderful daughter, Danielle. Fine, fine pinball player. In fact, one of the best in the world. Here he is, David Peck. Hey, David, how are you? Hey, Jeff. Hey, Marty. How are you going, boys? Very good. How's things over in New Zealand for you?
Head to Head Pinball Podcast
organization
Melbourne Silverballevent
System 11 showevent
IFPAorganization
Pinsidewebsite
Indusevent
Museum of Pinballvenue
World Champs (IFPA 17)event
Sterncompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
Josh Sharpperson
Tobiasperson
Stacey Borgperson
Brian C.person
  • ?

    operational_signal: Speakers emphasize efficiency, clear rule communication, professional time-keeping, and player-first philosophy as core to successful tournaments. Sticking to published IFPA rules is non-negotiable. Organizers invest significant unpaid effort; tolerance for complainers is low.

    high · David: 'You've got to run it like that. It's a professional sort of organization... you want to run everything as efficiently as you can'; Jeff: 'if you lay out the rules, here's what we're going to do... this is how we're going to run our playoffs... you still get people say, well, I would have done it this way'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: David Peck's lockdown activity includes full cabinet restorations (Taxi, Lost World, Starz—sanded and ready for painting). Demonstrates collector engagement in restoration work during travel-restricted periods. Indicates demand for restoration services and parts sourcing.

    high · David: 'I've had three pinballs, which I've stripped down and got the cabinet sanded, ready for painting when the lockdown's over. So I got a taxi, a Lost World and a Starz'

  • ?

    business_signal: David Peck, as NZ Stern distributor, stopped buying new machines for personal collection ~7 years ago due to pricing. Suggests distributor role doesn't shield from market pressures; may indicate distributor margin pressure or strategic shift toward alternative manufacturers (Spooky).

    medium · David: 'I bought it because I am the New Zealand distributor. But pretty much when Star Trek LE... jumped up in price here in New Zealand by about $2,000... I pretty much stopped buying them then'

  • ?

    product_concern: Pricing gap between Pro/Premium/LE tiers for Stern has widened significantly over time, creating friction. Historical NZ pricing: Pros $9k, alleys $10.5-11k (~$1.5-2k difference). Current LE pricing $16-18k AUD. Collectors perceive poor value in new releases relative to used market.

    high · David: 'in the old days the pros were well in new zealand nine grand and the alleys were ten and a half eleven grand there's about two grand difference when that gap started getting bigger and bigger and bigger then i pretty much stopped buying them'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: David Peck's primary love remains System 11 era machines; cycling between eras (recently returned to WPC machines after multi-year absence). Suggests System 11 represents 'sweet spot' in complexity/playability; newer machines not compelling enough to justify premium pricing for established collectors.

    medium · David: 'Your System 11s, yeah, that's still the primary love. And to be honest, the rate of the price increases on the new machines, I haven't bought a brand new Stern machine for seven years now'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: IFPA legally enforces tournament rules as published; changes mid-tournament are not permitted. This provides stability but also limits tournament organizer flexibility for real-time adjustments.

    high · David: 'when you announce the tournament on IFPA, you've got to put the rules up as they are, and those are the rules you've got to use. So you can't actually, like IFPA legally, change the rules halfway through the tournament anyway'

  • ?

    content_signal: David Peck's historically prolific 'Rotor Dave's World Tour' threads on Pinside have halted due to lockdowns. These served both as personal travel journals and community content. Absence represents loss of regular long-form travel narrative content from major community figure.

    high · David: 'I haven't been able to do that [World Tour threads]. And one of the main reasons I did that was just so more or less for me...'; Jeff: 'I knew you from the Rotor Dave's world tour, whatever it was. There was always like an annual world tour thread on Pinside'

    • 2:50
    Lockdown. This is what happens, you see. We play pinball for like nearly 18 months when the rest of the world doesn't. Now the rest of the world is playing pinball, and we're locked down. We can't play pinball. So that's just about how it goes. It's funny you should say that because I did ask Josh Sharp. I said, okay, lockdown's happening again in other parts of the world, certainly not in the United States. So I'm wondering if he's reaching out to his country directors, his state directors, province directors, all that to see is everything okay because, yeah, we're playing here too. We're not in lockdown in Canada. that they're certainly not in the States, but I know certain parts of the world, like you say, in Australia and New Zealand. And travel restrictions is the biggest thing. I was supposed to go to a pinball tournament this week in Cleveland, one I've attended all the time. It's an easy, easy drive. Can't get across the border. And I didn't really want to pay an extra. It turned out to be almost $1,200 for flight and COVID tests, just to go to a pinball tournament somewhere where I can drive. Not doing it. And we're the same here. I don't know if we wanted to. Brisbane Masters was just on a few weeks ago, and if I wanted to go over there, I would have to stay in a hotel for two weeks at my own expense. So no, thank you. You didn't go to that either, did you, Marty? No. Well, look, I'm in the same boat, even though we're in the same country.
    4:10
    You can't even leave your state. So here's the thing, Jeff. Hi, Ian, if you're listening. This is COVID Talk, sponsored by Ian. apparently if it hasn't clicked over yet it's about to melbourne is going to become the longest city to ever be in lockdown ever congratulations nice you know we take the wins where you can i think it was bruno's errors that was the the record holder it's something like 234 days we are about to surpass that so so that's obviously you know we are obviously the epicenter So that means if we wanted to go to Brisbane Masters, and people were, people I know, Stu was going to go once he managed to get off that plane somehow. But he was.
    5:00
    And it really happened, I think, maybe a week, week and a half before where all the lockdown, the latest sixth lockdown happened. And that was when everyone was like, right, well, we can't do Brisbane Masters now. So nothing, nothing at all. Yeah, I know there's a few Kiwis booked to go over there, and they just had to can it. So I still never got my flight credit for last year because we booked flights to go. All three of us had booked flights to go over to Brisbane for that, and it got knocked on the head. So we lost all our flights and all our money and everything, but hey, them's the breaks. Add to that, they missed out on the IFPA opportunity. So next year, Brisbane Masters, Jimmy Nails, don't you worry. It'll be tons and tons of people because I saw some drone footage from Dr. John at Brisbane Masters even this year and just kind of laying out the area. It looked spectacular. I really want to go to that. Yeah, the new venue at the Brewdog, is it called, Marty? Yeah. It was a spectacular looking venue and they put a lot of effort into it and then sort of had the rug pulled out of them in the last five minutes. But, again, that's the way she goes at the moment, and I think that's going to be the way it's going to be going for the next year or two, unfortunately. But, hey, we've got to do what we've got to do. It is the testament to Jimmy Nails who puts that on. Obviously, we had Jimmy Nails a couple of times on Head to Head. Everyone's met him, and he was the first person I met that was putting on tournaments here in Melbourne. And the reason why I bring him up is that, I mean, I know that there are bigger tournaments and there's been longer-running tournaments, but if you ever, if anyone's out there that ever wants to improve their tournament, grow their tournament or to understand what the recipe is for a successful tournament, speak to Jimmy Nails because Jimmy Nails, the forefront in his mind is, how can I make this a fun experience for everybody and there happens to be a competition at the same time? I'd agree with that and also you've got to work. the most important thing and I found there when I've, because I've only been to the one Brisbane Masters but everything ran efficiently where a lot of tournaments around the world you go to things are a little bit loose and they don't run efficiently and that's nothing worse so you'll know Marty you've been to, well you've only been to one that I've sort of half ran, the one Southern Hemisphere where we ran that in Sydney but whenever I run a tournament in New Zealand it's always run exactly to time and so if I know if it's finishing at 6 it's finishing at 6, if it's starting at 10 it's starting at 10, lunch breaks at 12 or 12.30. You've got to run it like that. It's a professional sort of organization. So you want to run everything as efficiently as you can and fit as many events and as much enjoyment into the time as you possibly can, I reckon. It's certainly a big factor when you go out of your way, when you have all those travel expenses, you want to go to a tournament. Fun is first and foremost, and Jimmy Nail certainly covers that off. I think I know, Marty, you try to do that as well with Melbourne Silverball. Definitely the System 11 show and everything else you do, David. It is essential to make tournaments fun. You can't please everyone. You do have to keep that in mind. But if you can say, okay, here are the rules. Everything's clear cut. Here's the times we're going to play. And you stick to them. And you've got techs and machines are always being maintained. Those are the things. If you can do that, you're in good shape. People can decide whether or not they want to come, based on the format, based on the costs, where the location is. But if you run that efficient tournaments, you're going to get kudos from absolutely everyone. Yeah, that's right. And the proof in the pudding, the people will come back the next year and the tournament will get bigger and bigger, as it has with Brisbane Masters. I remember when that first started, what, five years ago, there was 40 people, then there's 60 people, then there's 80 people. Even with their lockdown, they still had 150 people, I think, a few weeks ago. So if all the New Zealanders and New South Wales people and Victorians had been there, there would have been over 200 people there, I would imagine. So big tournaments like that just go from strength to strength if they are run well, like our Brisbane Masters is. Yep. And, you know, it's interesting. When there is a well-run tournament, and this is globally, you said before, you know, you can't please everyone. What I found is the people that you can't please with a well-run tournament are people that you can never please because they don't want to be pleased. They don't want to be happy. There you go. I've said it. And they're also people that you can do without. Correct. If they don't come back, they're doing everyone a favor, to be honest, including most of all the organizers, because you get the 1% of people who aren't happy. Well, the sooner they fuck off, then the better for everybody. I was going to say, we all agree, but we're beating around the bush. They all can just fuck off. That's, I think, what we're trying to say. Yeah. Exactly right. Life's too short for moaning, especially in the pinball world. Most of us guys who are putting on tournaments, I've heard you've put on a few worldwide tournaments as well there, Jeff. I think you won a few of them from memory. Well, yeah.
    9:59
    Yeah, those ones. But when you do put on a tournament, there's a hell of a lot of effort goes into it. And if you're doing it either you're trucking in machines like they did in Brisbane and you do in Melbourne, I've got all my machines permanently here, so I do have an advantage, but I have to look after them all the time to make sure they actually work properly. And it do go to a lot of effort. It's usually for no reward. If you do make some money, it's pennies on the dollar compared to all the time and effort you put into it. So you want to make it as enjoyable for everybody. And if somebody is moaning about it and they're not happy, well, there's the door, buddy. And a good chance those are the kind of people that aren't running tournaments too. And even the ones that do. Again, if you lay out the rules, here's what we're going to do. Everything's clear. This is how we're going to run our playoffs. This is the length of time. All that kind of good stuff. and you still get people say, well, I would have done it this way. Well, you came to it knowing it was going to be this way. Who gives a shit how you think it should be run? This is how we're going to do it. This is what works best for us. Maybe we can tinker it next year, but we're not going to change it on the fly. And I think sticking to your guns is very important, especially if you have those rules laid out. Well, yeah, when you announce the tournament on IFPA, you've got to put the rules up as they are, and those are the rules you've got to use. So you can't actually, like IFPA legally, change the rules halfway through the tournament anyway. So everyone knows what they're getting into when they go to a tournament. So I think, like you say, most people, especially here in New Zealand, all our crowd over here are really, really pleased that guys like us and all the houses that we go to every month for different tournaments that we put the events on. So we've got a real good crowd over here. We've only had, I've given one yellow card ever, the whole of IFPA New Zealand. And that was to my my grandchild who smashed a lockdown bar and stormed out of the room. So he got the first and only yellow card ever in New Zealand.
    11:51
    So, you know, we're pretty sweet over here. So did you get a Grandfather's Day card today? I was wondering about that. I mean, he's like, screw you, grandpappy. I remember this is New Zealand lockdown, buddy. We're not allowed to see anyone. This is not American lockdown or an Australian lockdown. This is New Zealand lockdown. We're not allowed to leave our houses. so we're not seeing anybody what's that take? when you say you can't leave your house does that mean you couldn't leave your house that you were completely like let's face it building from scratch which you weren't but well that one we were the lockdowns in New Zealand you're allowed to go to the supermarket and the gas stations are open and that's it so you can go to those places and you're allowed to walk around the block that sort of thing but yeah not supposed to go out and do all sorts of outrageous things. No McDonald's, no Kentucky Fried Chicken. So luckily, I've always got plenty of work to be doing. So I've been, for the last week, been sitting down here at the Pukekohe house and I've had three pinballs, which I've stripped down and got the cabinet sanded, ready for painting when the lockdown's over. So I got a taxi, a Lost World and a Starz and they're all sanded down and ready for A1 restorations when I can get the cabinets painted. Yeah, you lost me at no Maccas or no KFC. I'd be losing it. I'd be getting on a boat, getting the hell out of there. Are you kidding? Hold on a second. Wait, wait. Hold on a second. Okay, sure. Let's not get all judgy on Maccas or Mickey D's, which is called overseas.
    13:21
    But what are you saying? Like you can't actually get McDonald's? No, no, no, nothing at all. What? Everything's closed except the service stations and the supermarkets. When? What? When? All the time. That is – okay. everybody that's in Australia right now shut up because we can still get our arteries clogged via a Big Mac of course lockdown light I'd obviously heard about New Zealand's lockdown to be fair Dave and you know this Australians don't give a shit about New Zealand like that's just you know that it's like Americans with Canadians. I know exactly all about it. Exactly the same scenario, that same little brother scenario. And the whole thing was caused our latest lockdown. Well, we haven't had one for over a year now, but this latest one was caused, again, by those pesky Australians coming over here with their COVID Delta.
    14:22
    Infecting one person, then the whole country got locked down with one person infected. That's gone up on a bit of a bell curve. We've got up to a couple of hundred and now it's peaking back down again. So it is, I think today there was only 20 people, 20 new people. So certainly locking down and having no McDonald's and no KFC certainly helps because, yeah, 10 days later it's nearly all gone. So unlike in Sydney at the moment, I think 1,500 cases today, I think. Yeah. It certainly does work, but you can't continue doing it for the rest of our lives. So anyway, I'll finish what I was going to say, which was basically the start of it was, you know we don't give a shit about New Zealand, right? What I was going to say after that was, but I really do feel for you, man, because I'd always heard that you guys are going to lockdown. I'm like, oh, lockdown, just like it is here in Victoria. Oh, no, we are lockdown light compared to you. Yeah, everywhere, as I always laugh when Australians, well, the Americans, lockdown was like, God bless all my American friends listening. But, yeah, that was hardly a lockdown at all. Everything, pretty much everything was open, even the Walmarts and everything. So if there's a super spreader place anywhere that you could think of would be a Walmart. I just keep getting visuals of, you know, post-apocalyptic ghost town type things, you know, like looking out and there's just like this tumbleweed going down and not a single soul in sight for months. Pretty much. I'm looking out my window now. I live in a slightly rural couple of minutes out of town, but not too far, but 200 yards from the main road here. There's no cars going down the main road. Oh, there goes one now. But there's, yeah, generally it's a constant stream of traffic going down there. So everyone in New Zealand's pretty good. Although some guys went fishing the other day out at the beach not far from here, and they got their car stuck in the tide. So that's made national news. Obviously, they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.
    16:18
    You know nothing is going on when that makes the news. Was it Marty backing out of a lane? Oh, it was a ditch. Similar to that, but on the beach, yeah. You don't want to be doing that. New Zealand's a pretty slow news place all the time anyway I did actually crash but I did dent my car today getting out of a car park so happy Father's Day oh no really? badly too have a drink you'll forget about it don't worry I have so we're talking about hopefully soon being able to go places and I just mentioned earlier that I was supposed to go to Cleveland this weekend for a big event cleep in hide everyone that's there in ohio it's a lot of fun in independence ohio but uh can't get across the border by car i could fly just a ridiculous amount of money for something that's a simple four-hour drive and not only the drive but also the testing involved and i'm just like ah fuck it i'm not doing that it's in fact what i'm really doing is i'm looking i'm like okay that would have cost me eleven twelve hundred dollars what else costs me eleven twelve hundred dollars I reached out to my friend in Germany, Tobias, who is the country director there, and I'm like, when are you running your next tournaments? Because I can fly to Germany for a week for $1,200 or less and play a bunch of tournaments and not have to go through that bullshit. So anyway, that's kind of, it's, whoa is me. Oh, poor guy, can't go to a tournament, so he's got to go to Germany. I get it. But it's just, it's frustrating for you in New Zealand, in Australia, here in Canada, just having, here we are being responsible. We get our vaccines. We're doing our part. And unfortunately, Delta and everything else keeps spreading. And we are still in this horrible thing, what, 18, 19 months later? And I don't know what the outcome is going to be. We're seeing prices go through the roof. You've seen it in the pinball world. We're going to see a lot of surcharges. It sucks. I want it to get better soon. I don't know what you've got planned, David. I know Banning was a place you loved when you went to Indus. Indus will happen again. It won't be there. Is that something that you're looking forward to in January, February, whenever that happens? Well, just first of all, I just want to reach out for Ian and make sure that Ian's head hasn't exploded with all this COVID.
    18:35
    We were good for a few weeks. Sorry, Ian. You're getting it. Are you still there, Ian? Are you there?
    18:42
    No, Indus was certainly, for us here in New Zealand and for Marty, obviously, in Australia, that's one of the closest large tournaments we could go to being on the west coast of America. and certainly that was a very, very well-run tournament as well by the team there. So that's a real bummer with the Museum of Pinball disappearing, of course, another bummer, and I haven't heard any more news from Carl as to where they're going to be putting that on, but we won't be able to go this year, I don't think. So, yeah, it might be the year after before we can get back to the States and I would really like to get back to, I haven't been to the World Champs for a few years, so the Florida one will be the middle of next year, probably June, July. So I would like to get down to that if I can. We had planned to go to Germany World Champs next year, but that's been put off until the year after because that was at the same venue to the first World Championships I went to in 2013. And that's an awesome little place, awesome little town in the middle of Germany. So I would like to get to those if I can, but we'll just have to see what happens. Yeah, watch for the Florida one in May is what they're targeting for Fort Myers, okay, for IFPA 17. So, yeah, cross fingers we can get to that. But, hey, if we can, and the same thing applies to you, if the affairs are $5,000 each, then we won't be going, you know. But if it's reasonable, I certainly would like to go. This last Christmas was the first time we haven't been in America for Christmas for seven or eight years, I think. Just about every Christmas we go to America, go to Indus, go to Las Vegas, sort of drive around a bit. So, yeah, it's been a little bit of a culture shock not going this year. Well, it's funny you should mention those because I knew of you before I actually met you, obviously, as Rotor Dave. As a side note, you've got one of these really weird situations when it comes with your name, like I do, in that your name is David, but you happen to have a forum name, Rotor Dave. My name is Martin, and I've got Marty Mainframe. And so everyone calls me Marty, everyone calls you Dave, but it's David and it's Martin. The reason why I bring that up is because I knew you from the Rotor Dave's world tour, whatever it was. There was always like an annual world tour thread on Pinside, and you haven't been able to do that. No, I haven't. And one of the main reasons I did that was just so more or less for me, because I used to write for magazines and that. I've always enjoyed writing, going back to school. And it's something that I haven't been doing for a long time. So I enjoy writing things down, writing a bit of a story. and, like I say, used to write for magazine articles for car magazines and the like. And so it was more a record for me as to where we go And I still look back on those because I just forget We been all around the world to so many different places I forget all the places we been So sometimes I go back and reference those stories just to remember where I been which sounds a bit crazy. But, you know, we're all old men now. We forget what we had for breakfast half the time. Maybe you and Jeff are old. Sure. Take it easy there, Jim. All right. You're right there with us.
    21:36
    You're the oldest of all of us, I think, Marty, but not that we're counting. but no, Jeffy's actually the oldest. Wait a second. All right, let's throw out some agency. Dave's actual fact. Dave, what year were you born? 1970. All three of us were. Oh, there you go. It's funny because, yes, in the Auckland pinball scene here, there's about five or six people that were born in 1970 out of our sort of 60 or 70 people that are the mainstays of the scene here, so seem to all be from that same sort of vintage. Okay. I'm January, so I probably am the oldest. I may. Yeah. Marty's February. I am the youngest. Yeah. I'll win something. Anyway, yeah, so, yeah, for sure. I always used to enjoy writing those articles and going around the world. And especially the funniest thing writing, especially the American ones, was all the messages I'd get from the American guys saying, hey, I wish I could do that. Why don't you do that? Because it's not hard. You know, we can go around the world, and it's pretty cheap to jump in a car and drive around America. There's plenty of cheap hotels everywhere. You can eat cheap food everywhere. So, yeah, it's not a super expensive holiday, that's for sure. So those are some fun articles on Pinside, and I like the unique things like that. I certainly like owners' threads, and there's some interesting articles, experiences, and whatnot. But they certainly don't generate the hits, the upvotes, the downvotes, the comments, the multiple pages as the drama does, as we talked about a little bit last week. And Roto-Dave, you have been on Pinside for a long time. What are your thoughts of Pinside, how it is monitored, and the free-for-all that it is? Because I kind of stay away from it because I just – I like everything but the forum on there. That wasn't well done. But the – no, I've had a little bit of a bee in my bonnet. I mean I'm a big Pinside guy. I've always supported it. I've been on there for over 10 years now. But I mean some people might have noticed, but I have pulled back a little bit from commenting in a lot of the threads because they do, some of them now have just descended into pylons, like the Deep Root one's a perfect example. Haven't noticed. You haven't read it? No, hadn't noticed. Good idea.
    23:42
    Yeah, some of the guys that have commented, and hey, it wasn't a good situation, but it's just the same 20, 30 guys just piling on all the time saying, hey, I told you so, I told you so. Some of those guys probably need to have a little bit of look at themselves in the mirror and see what they're trying to prove, I think, sometimes. But Pinsified is such a great resource. I help a lot of people on there. People help me. I get stuck sometimes fixing, especially the EM machines. People come on. I'll ask a question on there. Within half a day, I've got it fixed. So, yeah, such a great resource. But there's a few. Hey, at the end of the day, it's usually probably 10 or 20 people on there that probably need to take a little bit of a step back, have a little bit of a look at themselves, and maybe go on a little bit of a holiday or get some form of life, maybe. Get a route. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. A route. Maybe, yeah, that could be it. Maybe they can take it. I need to get you in touch with Dr. Curly Tech. I know you've met Stacey Borg. I have, yes. Oh, my God. He has got a Jungle Queen, and I think it is on the Player One, the last of the reels doesn't turn. I need you to fix it for him. Remotely, obviously, because you can't even get fucking mackets.
    24:53
    Yeah, these last 10 days, my messenger's just been binging all day with all the Kiwis getting in touch with me to fix their pinball machines. So by all means, get them to drop me a message and I'll give them a tip. That's extended to the Aussies. We might as well. And in this instance, we will embrace New Zealand. Yes, I'm always helpful. I used to give Brian C a little bit of a hand when he was messaging me, but I haven't heard anything from him for a little while, so all his machines must be running nicely. Good to him. No, he's in the mountains. He's walking the beaches, eating bananas. Yeah, we might hear from him soon, but he was just on last week. don't know where he is but yeah dave definitely helped me out with the flight 2000 and that's where i like i don't even know how that came about if it was me on facebook more likely so i doubt i posted it on pin side but maybe you might have even just mentioned it on the on the podcast i think and i dropped your message yeah told you how to fix it i can't remember what it was now but um yeah most things when you've got when you've got a few pinball machines and you've been doing it for 30 years you pick up um i'm pretty good on most things the only thing i fall a little bit short on is the EMs because I don't have that much experience on them, even though my first pin 30 years ago was an EM. But the solid states and everything, I'm doing all the board repairs and everything for them now. So, yeah, really pretty much self-sufficient out here. And obviously, we know you're a big System 11 fan. Over the years, has that changed? Has your love of that era changed? changed because there's obviously more and more machines out now as the years go by someone was saying to me the other day because of that whole stern inside connector whatever bloody i don't know bullshit it is saying that it's because it's only for lcd games and someone was saying this like i don't know maybe 16 or 19 lcd games it's like hang on really and we counted them and there is there's just shit loads so there's more and more games out which puts distance between current games and the System 11. So I'm just curious to know whether that still stays the same or do you sort of go in and out of love with it? Yeah, everything does go in cycles, especially when you've got a few games. As you know, Marty, you've got a few, or you had a few, and every game's going in cycles. At the moment, I'm sort of been playing a lot of WPC stuff, which I hadn't touched for a couple of years. So I've gone back to those and just setting myself little goals, like on the getaway, you get to Redline Mania on as few flips as possible. So basically just go straight through all the gears. I think you can get there in about 12 flips, I think, get to the wizard mode. And I got to Lost in the Zone on one ball the other day on Twilight Zone, which was pretty cool. I haven't done that for a while. But your System 11s, yeah, that's still the primary love. And to be honest, the rate of the price increases on the new machines, I haven't bought a brand new Stern machine for seven years now. I bought it because I am the New Zealand distributor. But pretty much when Star Trek LE, as cool as it is, jumped up in price here in New Zealand by about $2,000, that big step in the old days the pros were well in new zealand nine grand and the alleys were ten and a half eleven grand there's about two grand difference when that gap started getting bigger and bigger and bigger then i pretty much stopped buying them then and all my all my newest urns my iron maiden my jurassic park what else have i got a few of them um they will they will be in second hand i haven't bought any new games since 2013 so except like i say for a few spookies I've bought. And that's it. Yeah, I've basically just priced out of the market. And people say, hey, well, if you buy them, like I know in Australia, for you guys, you can buy your LEs at, what, $16,000? Is that right? Something like that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, it feels like it, because they have just gone up, obviously. Well, $18,000 here. $18,000? Yeah. If we do a straight comparison with just the exchange rate. That's about 16 grand. Yeah, I'm just trying to have a look. Do you guys have different currencies? Yeah, there's a New Zealand dollar and an Australian dollar. It's still a dollar. They're pretty close, but at the moment it's about 90 cents to the dollar. I think about 10% difference between the two. Yeah, because the only site that I know is AMD, which is the Australian distributor. Whenever they sell out of their limited editions, they don't leave the price, but a premium is $12,250. But that's all going up. We're hearing that we're going to see some big increases coming up. And a lot of that has to do with what you were kind of hinting at, Marty, was that connectivity. And Stern announced it recently. George Gomez had that video. And we haven't talked about it since the last time this program aired. So why don't the three of us just kind of give your thoughts on this connectivity. I will start off. It looks like it's going to be 17 games. I think seven right off the bat and eventually 17 by December. So the achievements, the trophies, those kind of things, the upgrades. I like the upgrades idea. I don't know about the achievements and the trophies, but I'm also, and we all are, a little older than people that are used to that kind of completionist habit of playing video games and having to have those trophies, it means nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. Because they have things like that already. They're called high scores. And I know that doesn't tell you or not whether you've done a wizard mode or you've hit this shot X amount of times. It really doesn't mean anything to me. And I know I'm probably in the minority, but I don't see me expanding that to any of my older games or putting that adapt on i guess the new games will have it on and then maybe it's just a fee to activate it uh who knows you guys what do you think yeah for me jeff exactly the same meetings absolutely i've listened to the speech and uh read up about it and yeah for me means nothing at all but then again i've got friends who are 50 years old who are chasing pokemons around the backyard so i don't think i'm i'm not the um yeah it's not for me but i'm sure other people will like it as you say the young uh the young kids seem to like it so if we can bring it to a new generation the younger guys which let's face it at the end of the day most pinballers are let's say 40 plus so we need to bring which is a big thing i always do in the new zealand scene here is try and bring the kids through because when we're all gone we need someone to buy all the pinball machines so uh we want need to bring those kids through and if this will help do that then hey let's give it a go see what happens hmm so i couldn't give a shit i i've been saying for years i've been saying for years so this is you know this is not a this is not about stern right because i don't want to go you know it's like it's not it's not a company to company thing i don't give a shit about online gaming i really don't i mean you know i've got a ps5 i've had every just about every major console since 1976 and have had all the online consoles i've played on going i don't need to be online with my pinball at all and i'm just going to say this is dlc this is the dlc generation they are they are layering it with trophies and layering it with achievements and layering it layering it layering it this is the new dlc model there you go no question about it that's definitely as i commented that on pin side that it'll be slowly opening the door up where you can you know pay more money to the um and not just stern you know this this will happen across the board where you'll pay more money and uh you'll be able to unlock different modes and things like that as you did with the jurassic park topper you know by the topper you get another mode and no doubt this will slowly come in hey i've got this um i can you can pay your extra whatever it is ten dollars a month twenty dollars a month and you can get all the extra modes so yeah not something for me and as i say i'm more happier than ever with my System 11s and my old bellies and my WPCs. So, yes, I'll just leave it for other people. Well, that's what I'll say as well is I think if people like it and they enjoy it, fucking fantastic. Absolutely. It was made for you. It's just not made for me where I don't need to know how my score compares to anybody else, and I don't need bonus modes, and I don't need trophies. I mean, I get trophies all the time on PlayStation. I'm not a trophy hunter so I don't need to I also thought it was odd that you get the check mark that you've achieved this if it's done on location yes that's right only on location because the glass can't come off on location at all that's impossible apparently it could never happen I'll tell you this, this is the first question I asked when I saw this announcement we knew it was coming this is all I gave a shit about as I sent an email to Josh Sharp I said please tell me the IFPA will not make me playing this game in Canada versus David Peck in New Zealand a match using this connectivity. He said, absolutely not. I'm like, good. That's all I needed to know. Yeah, good. Because that is sadly when I will probably have to bite the bullet and do this, which I'm not saying it's a bad product. People have wanted this for a while. It's just not for me. That's all. That's what I'm saying. Passing judge. It's just definitely not for me. I have no interest in that. I will not probably do it if I see it in an arcade. I just, and I know some of the, we've heard some of the arcade owners and operators say, whoa, whoa, whoa, this data mining and all this kind of information that's going one way. I don't know if I want to be doing that. And then the internet connection and all that other stuff. So I think they've got some kinks to work out. I'm sure it will only get better as it's unfolding. but I didn't think it was the best presentation of this launch just to give a few little tidbits and a lot of questions and not a lot of answers because there are people asking a lot of these things right now I would be nice to roll it out with everything kind of here's what's going to happen and we didn't get that you might well find that's going to evolve as time goes along they probably have a framework in place they'll see which direction it heads in then slowly start bringing in these other things depending on which direction it goes on like as far as the location play goes it's all very well if you've got location play somewhere around you we've got nothing here in new zealand at all so good luck with getting your ticks in new zealand because there isn't any location pinballs so yeah good luck with that one there's very little in in australia either as you know well what's going to be required of the operators we know about the internet connectivity and i like that the upgrades can happen i think that's really cool i definitely like the upgrades, you know, because we've sometimes gone on location, if you see a machine and you're like, oh, it's that code? What the heck? That's like four codes ago. That's kind of cool. But again, is it going to be hardwired for the operator or is it going to be on an open Wi-Fi that they may or may not want? Who knows? That's, I think, why maybe I'm not excited about it yet, because I have a lot of questions and we heard some of the questions on the pinball show. Zach and Dennis were talking about it a week ago and I've heard a few more questions and I think Like Pinside's even got a few on there. So we shall see. But I really wonder, it would have been interesting to ask somebody like Ryan, who is an operator, if he would have jumped on board, is this going to actually put more quarters or loonies or dollars into a machine? I don't know yet. You find someone who's proactive like Ryan is, and certainly there are proactive operators out there. But there is a guy in Auckland who's got some machines out and about around town. And as you say, they're all on the initial launch code. So a guy like that, he's not going to hook them up to the Wi-Fi. He probably doesn't even know how to do it, let alone actually doing it. So it's going to make no difference to an old guy like him. But proactive guys like Ryan, they'll probably get into it. And I dare say there will be some take-up and come. It won't make the take any worse. Let's put it that way. I'm sure it can only make it better. So I suppose let's give it a dash and see what happens. Let's go back to the older games again. So Marty talked about the distancing between these new games and the older games. You have all of the System 11 games. That's 30. Marty, I have my favorite System 11 game. Yep. I have my System 11 game that I think is the most underrated game. Do you have some thoughts on that? And then we'll get the master in David Peck to tell us if we're right or wrong. Well, I mean, I've been on record for a very, very long time about my favorite System 11 game. Roller Games. Yeah, obviously. But an underrated, I think I do have one, but I'm just checking to see whether it actually is a System 11 game. So talk amongst yourselves and then I'll tell you whether it is. Okay, well, while you're researching this. Yes, it is. AKA getting another drink. Oh, you've got it? Go ahead. Police Force. I think it's really underrated. I think that it's one of those games where I think the code hasn't stood the test of time, but it was a cracker of a game when it came out. David, that was the one that was supposed to be Batman, right? Yes, it was. That's right. And they didn't get the license, so it turned into a police force. So, yeah, police force, not a bad game. What's your one, Jeff? Millionaire. Millionaire? No. God, no.
    38:11
    My favorite would have to be, I know a lot of people, I think if you were to ask Keith that one he would say whirlwind and that's probably the highest ranked one on pin side but for me when i look at that list of 30 it just jumps out to me and it's not radical i know that's a fun game a lot of people talk about it it's f14 tomcat yeah i thought you were gonna say that f14 tomcat is just go go go and i love the sounds i know if you can dial into that far right orbit shot you're probably going to win the game because that's where all the big points are but i absolutely love that and the most underrated game i'm glad you picked police force because that's one probably a lot of people haven't played but you're right it's fun and i think this would fall in that category too and david you'll remember this because this was at indisc a few years ago pool sharks yes i love pool sharks and i only ever played it at indisc i thought that's a cool game all right well you want me to want me to talk about those ones go ahead yeah before you do So I will just say, again, that sort of between 89 and I say like 93 was when I used to play pinball probably three, four hours a day instead of doing my job. That's not the point. And so I still remember when I walked into the arcade and Pool Sharks was there for the first time. I played its brains out. I fucking love that game. I loved it at InDisc and it was awesome. It hasn't aged that well, I don't think, but absolute crack at game when it came out. Over to you, David. I'm going to give you a little bit of a thrill there, boys, because I was playing a little bit of pinball this afternoon before I came on, and the games I was playing were Pool Sharks, Jokers, and Banzai Run. So certainly Pool Sharks, we've got a new ROM for that, which I worked on with Soren over in Denmark. Yes, Denmark is near Denmark. Sorry, Soren. and we fixed the jackpot at three million for the trick shot and what else we've done with that basically took the randomness out of the game you can't get the extra ball from the scoop anymore so that's certainly we've turned that into a really good tournament game now and jokers is another one which is highly underrated and what's good about those games especially jokers is there's a number of different ways to score you can either go for jackpots that's where the system 11 sort of varied a little bit from the games that came before them Whereas really, a lot of those older games just have one strategy. It might be hit the spinner or it might be hit the rollovers, whatever. Whereas System 11s, usually there's two or three different things you can do, depending on how the game's playing. Definitely Jokers. F-14 Tomcat would go down as one of the, for me, one of the best pinballs ever made. It just came out probably, for me, arguably one of Steve Ritchie's best games. You know, that and Getaway, which obviously a little bit later. But F-14 Tomcat's just such a great game. But certainly on the underrated stakes, Police Force is okay. that does suffer from, you can just hit the center loop over and over and over again. But definitely, Pool Sharks and Jokers are two undervalued System 11s that you can usually pick up for a very reasonable price and get a lot of fun out of. Okay, so you have all 30, and we're talking about a collection. You have to have all 30. But there may be a couple of turds in there. I mean, certainly. How did System 11s die? Well, it was Bugs Bunny birthday ball. Some people love it. No, they don't. Like the grandkids? It's like anything, though. You know, it's, yeah, it's a fun game. If you put that game into a little, like a child's fun center or something like that, it would take a lot of money. It's not a great pinball machine to play, but it's got a great theme on it. It looks pretty cool. It makes cool sounds. So, yeah, not one for the tournament, guys. Certainly, if I was culling the collection down, your Bugs Bunny would have to go. I've never gelled with fire, although a lot of people like fire. I do like fire. Yeah, I've just never gelled with me, and it might just be my one, but different games gel to different people, but your fire doesn't do too much for me. Nothing for me. Yeah, there's a few of them there. Riverboat Gambler, because it's actually not a bad game, but it's not a very good tournament game because it's too random. Okay, that's what I want to talk about, because I had to play that in a tournament last Friday. Yes I won the tournament We don have to talk about it The point is Riverboat Gambler I playing this I like is this the first ever game with action buttons I know you just picking red you picking green white or black But I was like, hmm, I don't know if there's one before that. And I think it was Dwight Sullivan who told me that. Yeah, I think it well could be. Yeah, I can't think of anything else wrecking my brains. I can't think of anything else before that. So no, it well could be. Is there a Surin Ram for that? because the jackpot was like 4.9 million. I'm like, this is stupid. It's game over. There's two things. There's the progressive jackpot, which is just a killer, and the other is just the repetitive right ramp shot, which is all people do. That's right, because on that game, that's the killer for that game. Progressive jackpots, you can sort of work your way around in a turn-of-the-day situation because you can always manually reset them to zero if you have to. The other thing you can do, too, is reset the jackpots, which is what Jim was doing on Pool Sharks and the Indus a few years ago because they didn't have the modified ROMs then so he was just manually resetting the jackpots before all the major games, but Riverboat Gambler, if you keep on shooting that roulette wheel, it'll give you those random awards, which is the big random awards are the big issue of course it can work, but you can get rid of those in a ROM update, no problems at all, so it's actually not a bad game apart from those random awards and like you say, progressive jackpots, but With all Soren's great work working on those ROMs, we've got probably a good dozen or so System 11s with fixed jackpots that we can use in the World Champs. So they're great tournament games once you get rid of that progressive jackpot. They're really, really good. No ball saves, no nothing, just real good fun tournament games. So let's talk about Millionaire. So what is it really that is so bad about Millionaire? And is there anything that could be changed with code to make it enjoyable? I don't think no one's ever asked that question. The best thing about Millionaire is it's very, very cheap, so it's a very good source of parts.
    44:31
    That's terrible. The best thing about this game is it's good for parts. That's the biggest insult. Those U-boards are very expensive, so you can buy a whole game for $600. The boards are worth a grand, so strip it down. Now, Millionaire, yeah, the code's not great. I mean, some people like it. And like I say to people, it's a great $600 game, you know, but it just leaves a lot to be desired. The theme's pretty crap. The sounds are pretty crap. The layout's pretty crap. And the software's pretty crap. It's actually pretty crap.
    45:04
    We'll put it this way. It's the only one on my machines that's broken, and it's been broken now for about six months, and I haven't really got around to fixing it. So this is about how high up the priority list it is for me. I might actually get it done in this lockdown. Do you know the two games I never get my hands on in the System 11 categories, and the only time I've ever seen them was, sadly, at Pinberg? I don't know, or I ever get to play, Road Kings or Big Guns. I wouldn't even know what to do. Well, I was the same. I'd had a Road Kings for a few years, and a couple of years back, we were down in Dallas playing in the World Pin Golf Championship thing. What did they call that? Pinmasters. And we were down there for that, and I was in the top eight, and I had to play that. And I'd never really played it before. I've got one here, but it had been in the garage in storage ever since it arrived. So I'd never really played it before, and it was a game that knocked me out of the championships. I ended up seventh or something, which is okay, but it was a bit disappointing to be knocked out on a System 11. So, yeah, it is thin on the ground, that game, and big guns is as well. Yeah, there's no other Road Kings or big guns in New Zealand that I know of. So, yeah, very thin on the ground. I did play I thought there would have been a Road I feel like I played Road Kings At Papa Or not Papa At Pemburg It actually felt like a really good tournament game It is, yeah, once you figure out the rules Relatively straightforward, actually a Mark Ritchie game And it is a very very cool game Once you know what the rules are You've just got to spell Road on the left and Kings on the right And light your locks and away you go It is a very very good game once you figure it out and Big Guns of course is Medieval Madness Lite actually we call, we've got Medieval Madness here it's got a sticker on it that says Big Guns 2 so if you know Big Guns at all it's maybe an inside joke I don't know the game sorry, hold on a second, let me insert this oh good one David oh that's so funny why do you consider it the same as Medieval Madness? no, it's because of the theme just because of the theme but not because of the layout or anything no no it's got nothing to do with it at all but did that whole castle theme and medieval theme okay maybe cut that it wasn't a very good joke no no no fuck it's it's better as if it's better that it's not it's still better than any of our jokes so yes yes oh absolutely okay you've got the complete collection of system 11s i assume once you got okay i'm at 20 25 i might as well get the other five why did you pick system 11s over something like maybe data east i had loads too but the yeah one stage i had most of the data race games as well but the and i don't know system 11s it was the first game i got was a um got leap solar city the second game which was about 1992 i bought a 14 tomcat so yeah i've just always liked that era of games i don't know why and back in those days you know all my all my buddies used to razz me because i never used to spend more than a thousand bucks on a game and all the system 11 games back then were a thousand bucks or 1200 max so just about all of those games i picked up for around that price going back you know 10 15 20 years ago so yeah it was just they were in my price range and um yeah once once i didn't even start out to collect them or once i got up to about 20 i sort of suddenly realized hey i haven't got that many to go and i'll have the whole lot so there's a few i did have to bring in from overseas like the big guns came in from overseas the road kings did too actually that came from dallas my bull sharks came from england of all things my roller games came from utah so yeah i had to bring the last sort of seven or eight in from overseas so because we didn't have them here but uh yeah eventually got them all took a fair while but we got there in the end talking about data east and you just mentioned utah our friends josh and scott who marty wants dead from the loser kid pinball podcast they just had joe camon cow on and of course he had a great association there with data east and some of the big titles there i was really interested in that episode because Because I think of the history of Dades. My first ever game was Lethal Weapon 3. And I look back and I'm like, wow, they had some pretty decent titles. They had Back to the Future. They had Jurassic Park. They had so many great games, theme-wise. But the games just maybe didn't cut it. And it's so funny because today, all we talk about is, you've got to have theme. It's got to be theme. Well, I don't know if it's just got to be theme alone. Because the game's got to stand up. Theme's always going to get you that recognition out on location, and Data East, Gary Stern, and Joe Kamikawa, they were always the kings of getting those licenses. They always had the great licenses going back in the early 90s, and even at the end of the 80s, they had some good ones, like Back to the Future and Ninja Turtles, and some of those games maybe not as good as you'd expect, but they sold plenty of units, and there's plenty of them out there, so they must have done something right. Maybe they don't stand up so well today, but at the time, they certainly sold a lot of them. Yeah, I think they sold because of the theme. And I think we had Joe on head-to-head a while ago as well. And basically he was talking about how they used to get games out within six months from inception. Now, Stern, they say, is like 14, 15 months. Jersey Jack's probably 18 to two years. So I was actually having this conversation the other day because I think we were talking about either Torpedo Alley or the other one, is it Laser War, maybe? Laser War, yeah. Yeah, one of those. Anyway, basically what I was saying is that I felt that those early Data East games, which didn't have the license, were actually better games than, I would say, most of the midsection of the licensed era of Data East. I think towards the end, they got really good when they started adding modes to their games, But I think a lot of the stuff in between was just get the machine out the door. We've got the license. Let's make money. Which is crazy when you think of games like Star Wars and other huge titles. Yep. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, in those days, well, any today, you know, like Gary Stern said not long ago with the Star Wars bin, just throw Star Wars on it and it'll sell. You know, it doesn't matter what the bin ball's like. People will just buy it. So I think that's certainly a lot of those early 90s data. All the modes are much the same. Now you've got just about all interchangeable. They just slap a different field, slap some different art on it, chuck the license on there, out they go, sell 2,000 or 3,000 units onto the next one. So, yeah, they were cranking them out pretty quick, but, of course, not as quick as Gottlieb, who were trying to turn them out in three months, which is some form of record. Start to finish in three months, out they go. so recently it was announced that home pin is going to be doing this is spinal tap and we talked about it last week on the episode and i was like oh that bugs me because that is such a theme i would love to have it sounds like it's going to be all the movie assets and david you were actually talking to mike from home pin and uh was curious when you were asking him about spinal tap yeah well i asked him a few questions i know mike um because i buy a lot of parts off him obviously having a lot of pinball machines i need to do a lot of fixing up but um so i fired him a few questions and um asked him about i hope unfortunately at this stage he hasn't released any pictures of it and he's not going to do so until the machines hit the distributors so they're into production now what else can i tell you two displays uh so you've got a dmd display for the pinball scoring and then a lcd display just for video clips only what else is going on not designed by Joe Balsa. I believe they designed it themselves. He said plenty of assets. What else did he say? Modified board set from Thunderbirds. So the same, but changed to run the LCD screen. And pretty much all the parts are made of stainless steel because it's cheaper, just as cheap to get stainless steel in China and Taiwan is now, as it is to get steel. So that was, I think, pretty much the guts of it from memory. The one thing I also heard, much like Thunderbirds, they're going to be easier playing games, not so much. If you're looking for a deep, deep game, this isn't going to be it, but it's going to be pretty laid out, pretty basic. Fun is the goal, certainly, and that's a theme that definitely has a lot of fun in it. And just as we mentioned with Data East, and these are great themes, these are great titles, the game has to be good. So as much as I like Spinal Tap, I have to see this first. I certainly am looking forward to flipping it, no question about that, But buying it, well, it's got to have, you know, especially with today's prices, it's got to have a lot there. And we shall see. Yes, certainly what Mike goes for is, as I said, like I did a little bit of a write-up on Pinside a few years ago when Thunderbirds arrived here. Mike shipped one out to my house for our big Pincade annual event. And just out of the blue, Mike said, hey, you wanted to come to Pincade and he was going to ship Thunderbirds over here. So I said, yep, more than merrier. So I shipped it over to the house. I set it all up. We had it in there. It was early. It was just a prototype machine well before they put them out. And it came in. We set it all up. The whole thing, one thing with mics and machines, hey, they might not be the best code-wise or anything. The thing was actually extremely well built. The play field had rollers on it, so it rolled in and out nicely. Most of the stuff was stainless steel. The speaker panel had big hinges on it, so it hinged out. Because Mike's a technical guy. He's not a pinball player. He's not a coder or anything like that. He's a pinball parts manufacturer. So the actual machine itself, whilst maybe not being the most fun thing to play, as I wrote on Pinsight, if you're a tournament player or something, you don't want to be playing this game. But as far as the quality of the thing, it was all pretty nicely put together. But like I said, at that stage, it was just a prototype machine. I said after he'd left, the machine stayed here, and I sent Mike a lot of recommendations for what needed to be done with the code because the code wasn't super great. He said, well, pretty much that's it. It's finished. And it's like, well, hang on. That's not so good. But that's the way it is. They sold 150 of those. So there is a market for those sort of games. It's not Stern. He's not trying to compete with Stern. It is what it is. And I would imagine that Spinal Tap's going to be much the same sort of thing, just a very simple rule set, something he's going to put out there. I know they're going to be distributed around America, maybe not so well known in Europe, that license. But certainly in America, I think you'll find a lot of people will buy it, especially if they're going to be the same price as Thunderbirds, which is around $5,000, I think, US. if they're around that sort of price, people will buy them.
    55:22
    It's not pin sides, not the market for those games. It's somebody who wants a game for the corner of the games room and they know who Spinal Tap is. I don't think you're probably not going to see a Spinal Tap pinball on the final stage at Indisc anytime soon, if you know what I mean. The only thing I'm really curious about, I know you sort of talked about price before, but has there really not been that many recent Stern games that you've been tempted to buy? Well, no, I like, that's the thing for me. As I said before, like I said on Jeff's show a few months ago when we were having a chat on Pinball Profile, I don't buy anything by theme. So even if my favorite band had a pinball machine come out for it, I don't really care. You know, I don't buy anything on theme. It means nothing to me. So if it's a good game, like Iron Maiden turned out to be a good game, I do like Iron Maiden, but I'm not buying a pinball machine just because it says Iron Maiden on it. I'm calling bullshit. If Judas Priest came out with a game and you don't get one for Danny, you are the worst parent ever. She's a big girl. She can pay for it.
    56:26
    She's got a job. She's working for the university now. I'm 19 years old. She's marking everyone's exams. So she makes more money now than I ever have.
    56:34
    She can buy her own pinball machines. But no, again, she wouldn't buy even if it came out and it was no good. Then, hey, we're just not going to buy it. We haven't got any room left in the games room. there's 100 pinball machines in there now. If there's going to be something comes in, something else has got to go. So it's got to be good to get in there. My dogs aren't annoying you too much there. That's fine. If you had to sell three games this week, what would they be? Well, I've been told by the missus I can't break up the System 11 machines. But if I had to sell, well, I've got no problems. I'd sell half of them, to be honest with you. But obviously the ones mentioned before would be the first ones out the door. Yeah, I'd have to sit down and think about that. I'm sure I could find some wood to cut. If it wasn't the System Eleven ones, I'd probably go something like Silver Ball Mania, maybe, because a lot of those ballet games are reasonably generic. How many games in your collection in total at the moment, on all properties? Pinside says 116. Well, there you go. That's quite a few. Yeah, but like I say to everybody who asks, they've got to be good games to get, apart from those System Eleven games we mentioned, they still have to be good games to get in the door. so I'm at capacity. So yeah, if one comes in, something's got to go. So even games like Stern Star Wars came in. I didn't like it. It was gone within two months. Deadpool came in. That got pretty boring pretty quick. Out it went two months later. So they have to be good games to hang around. Otherwise, they just got to go out the door, unfortunately. Speaking of out the door, look at that. We're out of time and some Father's Day celebrations still before it gets too late for you. Always a pleasure to talk to David, and I hope to see you and Danny soon, and maybe, fingers crossed, everything gets fine and maybe it's McDonald's. Who knows?
    58:16
    Things will be looking up, Geoff. I haven't had McDonald's for a year, so maybe I might break that next week when we get out of lockdown. We'll see. Did we actually establish, is it Father's Day there today? It is Father's Day. Yeah, okay. So we, yeah, Australia and New Zealand are in sync in that regard. We are at the moment. Yeah. Happy Father's Day, mate. You too, mate. It's good to be fathers. Yes, it is. We will talk to you soon, David, and appreciate you coming on final round today. No worries, guys. Thanks for having me. All right, there we go. There was David Peck. What did we learn, Jeff? A little bit about System 11s, some of the fun games. Got to get a pool of sharks too, but really the whole thing we learned is New Zealand, no Maccas, no KFC.
    58:59
    Holy cow. Worst place on earth. It's all I've talked about since recording. Anyone, I was going to say anyone in the street, there's really no one in the street, but anyone here at work, anyone i know i'm like did you know we think our lockdown's bad oh my god new zealand has got it really bad anyway whatever yeah but uh we wish the best for the peck family hope to see them soon always fun to hear them but as you know i mean that's all fine and dandy the interviews mean you bantering that's not why we do this why do we do this show we do this for the cash the cash which leads us to our sponsor of the week the nfl is back and there's no better way to help you in your fantasy picks profits and picking the winners than getting the best advice from the pros that know that's why you need expert advice from the man who can make you some serious bank nfl insider martin robbins inside what he'll study the injury reports get advanced scouting and look at the individual matchups with his analytical expertise here's a sample that will help you win week after week. This is American football, right? A big week one matchup sees the Chicago Bears in L.A. to face the Rams. Both teams have new quarterbacks, and each team are playoff hopefuls. Martin, who do you like? Did you actually say Chicago Bears? Yes. Well, I do like Bears, and I do like Rams. Can I have both? The Monday Nighter has the up-and-coming Vegas Raiders hosting the offensive juggernaut, the Baltimore Ravens. Who will cover the spread? The spread? You mean like Vegemite on toast? And finally, Martin, what about the Steelers going into Buffalo? If we're looking at quarterbacks only, Big Ben is getting long in the tooth and showed it last season. On the other side, Josh Allen might be a top three quarterback in the league. When you look at the defence, linebacker TJ Watt is making a stink about getting a new contract after a career year leading the league in sacks. Will he do the same in 2021? Not likely. Plus, Buffalo fans are allowed to return. It will be a loud one at Highmark Stadium. Take the bills by five. He's the best in the business. Call Martin Robbins, NFL insider, and start winning your bets today. Call 1-800-NFL-WHAT.
    61:11
    Wow, why am I wasting money here when I'm talking podcast? I'm going to take those tips. Thanks, Marty. Appreciate that. You are guaranteed. I mean, guaranteed to get your money back. Have you ever watched an NFL football game? Do you know what? I actually have. I do understand it somewhat. I will say I've actually probably played NFL more than I've watched it. On a video game? Yes, obviously. What the fuck?
    61:41
    Because the NFL games on predominantly PlayStation, I think EA games, they've actually been quite good. I mean, did you know that you can actually get an AFL? That's the Australian Rules Football. Oh, fuck. Here's Ryan again. Here we go. Yep. Yeah, no, it's true. So if anyone is interested in working out what the AFL is all about, you can actually buy a game. And it's the same thing for me. It's like I've seen American football on TV. I think it's all a bit of pageantry, but it's interesting. I mean, we've got rugby league is probably the closest to NFL, but without all the padding. That's way tougher. Those guys are absolute athletes and just brutes, if you really want to call it that. I mean, what they go through, forget about it. But do you know what got me into NFL football? And this is sad to say. I've been a fan for many years. But what it was for me was, in fact, betting. NFL got way more interesting when you said, ah, you know what, I want the Rams to win this week. And then, hey, wait a second, they won. All right. And you go into pools and things like that. Then it becomes interesting. When you have a horse in the race, so to speak, it's a lot more fun. But that still doesn't explain the game to you. No, it doesn't. But I do, because I've played it, I understand the game enough. Still probably not enough to draw me in. But, you know, we have, we call it footy tipping. Is that what you guys call it? No one has ever said that. Go on. Yep. Okay. There you go. Well, everyone in Australia, we call it footy tipping. And that's just a layer where everybody bets on who's going to win each week. And there's a ladder and whoever has the best picks at the end of the year wins. Yeah. We also have fantasy football, but we do that here with AFL. I know that's a big thing. Yeah, for sure. They actually tried to do betting in pinball a while back. Do you remember that? I do know that there was fantasy pinball for Pinberg, wasn't there? And I know that they also then had that website where they were betting as well But obviously there no tournament so you can do either Well there are tournaments They back now The IFPA has been back since August I mean Pinberg. Oh, the big ones. Well, you're right. I mean, they didn't do it on the smaller scale because it's harder to know the field. And it was interesting. It was weird because you saw your name and you saw a betting line and you thought, oh, I think I want to win. But you're not allowed to bet in that tournament if you're in the tournament. It's just a big, big no-no. But it was kind of weird because if somebody said, hey, I see you're going to this tournament. I'm going to bet on you. I'm like, oh, please don't because if I lose, which is more than likely, you're going to come back. Oh, shit. I should have done it for the Pinball Profile World Tour. Anyway, if I lose, I would have felt guilty. And I don't know. It felt creepy. I didn't think I was going to see somebody in a dark alley and say, hey, I want you to fix the game.
    64:34
    I was worried about things like that. Yeah, I think for the most part, for a number of different reasons, I don't think a lot of people were really comfortable with betting on pinball. I don't think it's big enough. I'm going to say this, and it's going to be controversial. I don't think it's professional or serious enough to warrant betting. You son of a bitch. Well, do you agree or disagree? I totally agree. Yeah, you would. I totally agree. And the betting really just spoke to, pardon me for if you did this, degenerates who have nothing better to do than bet, bet, bet, bet, bet, bet. It's like that Fred Flintstone episode, bet, bet, bet, bet, bet, bet, bet. And I just, I don't know. I mean, before the betting, there was this, I don't know if it was underground. I'm not going to say who started it. There was kind of like a spreadsheet. Let's just say it's an Excel spreadsheet. And you could pick five players at Pinberg. And you would get points based on how they finished. There was no money that exchanged hands. It was just for fun. But it really was the same formula as betting or a pool. And I did think it was kind of fun. I actually did put names in, in fact. Yeah, I did it once. When the word got out that this thing was happening, it did get some negative press as well. Just because, you know, in anything that you do, anything, there will be people that are against anything. You know, world peace? Oh, I don't want world peace. Feeding the starving and hungry? oh no i don't want that i'm exaggerating but there's people that will not want anything i guess i don't know i haven't come across negative people which brings us to last episode um we got some feedback from the last episode didn't we i barely remember yesterday let alone last episode what happened ryan c came on it was always fun to have ryan c we look forward to him coming on every few weeks, and we got mixed reviews. Not reviews, feedback. The reviews were all fine. That was nice to see, but you had half the people saying, I love seeing Jeff take a shit-kicking, and other people saying to me, how dare Ryan be such a little swarmy prick? And I was just like, whoa, hold on a second. One, think about things. I edit the show. If I thought Ryan was an absolute a-hole and was out of line, do you think it would have aired? No. And also, too, if you have ever heard the history of this program, Head to Head, Pinball Profile, if you've seen us in person, we enjoy, Marty and me, Ryan included, taking the piss out of each other, poking fun because we care. We love each other. It's a lot of fun, and it's just kind of our way of doing it. So I dish it out way more than I take it. So the fact that I took a cup on the chin, I was fine with it. It was funny. It was good. I just want to summarize it. This is what somebody wrote to me. I was going to send you this, but I thought, you know what, I'll just read it out. This is what sums it up to me. I don't agree one bit that Teolas should take responsibility. He does excellent work and he can't be responsible for other people breaking the law while lying to his face. I hope this doesn't dampen his overall positivity on the industry. It's greatly needed. There you go. Did my wife send that in? No, that was from a friend of mine, Nick. Thanks, Nick. Yeah, he said pass on my regards and much love from Nick. So there you go. Thanks, Nick. And listen, I would have Ryan on every episode. You know how much I loved Head to Head, and I look forward to the Christmas episode. And he is always welcome. And this is what I like about you and I. This is what I like about when Ryan comes on, when it's just Ryan and you. I love the different dynamics. You know, you and Ryan work so well together. I hope you and I do as well. I think we've done okay so far. But I like the different dynamics because you have a certain train of thought, and Ryan has a certain train of thought. and you come at it together from different angles. And I always appreciated that. And I think, you know, the mix, the chemistry, when the three of us get together, I think it's kind of fun too. And, yeah, there's probably more joking that goes on. There were a few edits on that show. There were. I lost my shit. And I took it out. You know what? That's not who I am. So I'm like, ah. Yeah, so apologies to Keith Elwin. He was aware of it and we didn't get to hear it. Well, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that edit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, at least he knows about it. It was for his benefit. But here's the thing as well. What's really interesting about me and Ryan is as soon as we start recording, I know he's going to say something that I disagree with. So that sets the tone from it right from the outset. What's interesting about you and I is that we agree and disagree on many things. so it becomes a really interesting way for me anyway to navigate through the conversation because i don't know which way it's going to go with ryan i always knew it was going to be opposite to what i was thinking really yeah for sure there's nothing you guys agree on there has to be something very rarely i mean did you ever listen to head to head every episode are you kidding that and slam tilt as soon as they were released instant listen i really got a kick out of it and didn't matter who the guests were it was really it was really the hosts sure that was the entertaining thing for me so yeah ryan's gonna be back for sure and in fact by the way he's coming back right now here he is with the latest this is ryan c with your haggis pinball update people seem to be working at the factory i counted an average of 11 cars each day i did notice there was one car with a left side taillight out not sure if the staff member is too busy to change it or is just a lazy fuck? Back to you, boys. There you go. There's the Haggis report. Saves me having to talk about it. I would also say it's probably not the first time I've been stalked by Ryan. So, I'm just saying. I'm probably not the first time anybody has been stalked by Ryan, if we're honest. Yeah. Makes you wonder why Jesse J's isn't on anymore, doesn't it? Makes you think, doesn't it? Makes you think. Just, come on. Jesse J, get on this bloody podcast. If you talk about Insta-listen, Jessie J's Pinball Adventure, for me, is an instant listen. Yep. And hasn't been on for ages. Mrs. Pin does that for me, too. I always get a kick out of that. Yeah, those were good ones. Mrs. Pin's done a couple this summer. She did recently, yeah. I was excited to see those, but now that she's back teaching again, so they're probably fewer and fewer. But, you know, that's certainly not dead. I just hope the Jessie J's one comes back. And I know she's still into pinball. That was the exciting thing. When Ryan said that she's still into pinball, that's a good sign. So it's just a matter of finding time. And really, I blame Ryan. There's probably no microphones on those long, long walks in the mountains and on the beaches and cycling and all those things he likes to do now. Personally, I feel that Ian has to take some responsibility as well. Damn straight, Ian.
    71:29
    For those not listening, Ian gave a shit for whenever we talk about COVID. Ian's not listening now. There's no way. After Dave Peck started off the way he did, there's no chance. Ian's long gone, so we can talk about it.
    71:41
    We are dead to him. Dead from COVID to him. So, but here you go. Here we go. I will just tell you, it is official. Double vaxxed. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. You? All right. Yeah, yesterday. That's good. Which one did you get? The second one? Yeah, second time. Double vaxxed. AstraZeneca. That's fine. It'll just have to do. It's fine. Anything you get is better than nothing. Correct. So thanks, Ian. He actually flew out and injected me with the second AstraZeneca. That's how much responsibility he's taking. I played in a tournament this weekend, and there were some unvaxxed people there. Here's what made me happy. Everyone was wearing masks indoors. They were diligent about that. I'm like, okay, you know, that's the best we can do. Unvaxxed doesn't mean you have COVID. It just means whatever it means. And am I more comfortable being around people that are vaxxed? I am. Again, my choice. so this was the first time I had done that and it was a little nervous to be honest but yeah I was going to ask whether there was anything sort of different you felt about it being a Vax tournament or I'm just saying sort of like I mean is that the first tournament you've been to in a while or have you been going to other tournaments? I've been going to these weeklies since the IFPA opened up in August and I think I've been to six or seven and the first six were mandatory vaxxed and still masks indoors. Again, we're talking about Canada here. I know things are different in other parts of the world. I was fine. It's summer, so it's hot, so you've got the AC going. But we kind of, they were all flip frenzies or match play. So when you were done, you kind of waited outside. That was fine. But, you know, I've got a trip booked in November. Anne and I and another couple are going to Vegas, perhaps. We're waiting to see because there's big expenses. and I know David Peck was talking about it too, about just when you fly, which you can fly, at least here, Canada to US and vice versa, you got to get these huge COVID tests and they take a couple of days, but it's more the cost. It's like basically $400 in tests alone. That's kind of sucks. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I didn't realize it was that bad, yeah. So when I hear David say, yeah, probably not going to Indisc in January, February, whenever that takes place, that's another expense, especially when there are three of them going. So hopefully we get there soon. And I really don't know what to say other than it sucks. I want to get back together. I couldn't go to the tournament this weekend in Cleveland for that reason, couldn't drive across the border.
    74:19
    So I'm trying to find out what's going on here in Canada. But I do miss the tournaments. It's fun. The biggest thing about these tournaments, Marty, was just getting back with people and seeing some friends I haven't seen in quite some time, which brings me to, I guess, you're coming to the point where you have to decide, if you haven't already, about Melbourne's Silver Ball and that tournament, which usually takes place in the fall or at the end of the year. Also, can I just say, I just need to say this. I really do. When, and it really is two things I want to say. First of all, fall, we don't say fall. We say autumn, right? We say fall. Second of all, we don't, we never say fall. When the fuck is fall? I say that because people were like, oh you know this movie's coming out fall 2021 when when the fuck is fall 2021 i don't know when that is i don't know in north america it would be september through november but in australia your fall is what i guess march to march to june but also fall is three months so that's not specific enough for me is what i'm saying when is melbourne silver ball planned and is it planned here in 2021? Okay, so our aim is to have it end of November, beginning of December 2021. There hasn't been a formal decision, but we are now in September. It's the beginning of September. I don't know whether you're aware of that because you're in a different part of the world, but that's how it works. But we are still in lockdown. We are in our sixth lockdown. I don't think we are going to be out of lockdown by the end of the year everybody's sort of predicting that we're still going to be in lockdown for christmas so there'll be no event that's just my prediction no chance of it but nothing official yeah you need to know pretty much by now for the planning for all the things that are involved in getting the games and and everything else that's needed it's too short of a timeline i remember when indisc 2021 was coming up and were we going to be ready or not and just how much planning went into that. And they were like, yeah, it's not looking good. And especially the fact that the IFPA wasn't up and running at the time, it wasn't going to happen. But yeah, some of these events are happening. The next big one is, of course, Expo coming up at the end of October. And I've asked around. It's exciting because Expo always is fun. If you like TPF, if you like Expo, those are big, big events and certainly nice to see a lot of friends. Maybe those are the people that aren't playing in tournaments that are big collectors. They go there as well, too. There are tournaments as well, but it kind of really gathers the whole pinball community just like TPF does in March. But people are, geez, I don't know. I just don't know. What's it going to be like? What's the comfort level? The Delta variant? All that kind of stuff. And that doesn't go for just participants. It goes for vendors as well, too. Now, if you go to the Pinball Expo website, you'll see a list of all the seminars, and that looks pretty full, so it looks like any other year. That's kind of exciting. Do you know what? I've got to say this, When I saw the schedule come out, I looked to see where your name was on the schedule. Why? I don't know. I just felt like you would have been asked again to do something. They asked you and I when it was virtual. I mean... No, that's why I wasn't looking for me. I was looking for you. You know, maybe you would host a trivia or, you know... There is a good trivia night. Dwight Sullivan is going to be doing his kind of family feud pinball style thing. That comes up on the Sunday, I believe. So I saw that in the schedule. But no, okay, I'll give you a little teaser. I was asked for something. Oh. I'm not going to tell you what it is. Okay. I'm not interested either way, so don't bother me. So maybe that'll happen. We'll have to see. Okay. Okay, cool. Look, again, this stuff really, I was going to say it depresses me. It's not that severe. But, you know, at Haggis, we wanted to be able to go to all these events, and we can't. And, you know, we've got, there's a, I think it's called the Western Australia Pinball Show. I probably should get my facts straight. In Perth? In Perth. So there is a pinball expo in Perth happening in September. We were going to go. We now can't go. Are the states closed? Well, so Perth is in Western Australia. So it is the West Coast Pinball Festival. So it's a case of, I mean, I guess it's kind of like, I don't know the Canadian government system. I'm assuming it's probably similar to us in that there's states, and states have got their own parliament, and some of them are red, some of them are blue. In Australia, it's Liberal versus Labour. So there's a lot of politics going on state by state, depending on who's running the state. So generally, what it is is that you can probably leave your state, you just can't come back in. So I think for a WA being so far on the West Coast, shuts its borders at the blink of an eyelid, just completely shuts its borders. So I don't even think we can go. But certainly, if we went, we can't come back. Well, if we come back, we've got to go two weeks at lockdown. So would the next major thing be something like Texas Pinball Festival as far as North America is concerned? Yeah, well, because TPF is next year. But we've also got Pinfest in Newcastle. that's another local one which is happening i think i think that might be in october again that that's in new south wales which right now has got the massive outbreaks so again no chance of going this is locally we can't go locally let alone international so it's quite frustrating it's a different side of pinball i know the majority of us are looking forward to okay when's the next game coming out and uh when do we get to see the streams and the videos the pictures and all kinds of things but the reality in certain parts of the world are what's in front of us the limitations and it's unfortunate we have to pick and choose what we can do and sometimes it's picked for us but you're very good at picking and choosing and that brings me to another edition of who does marty save and who perils oh my god just if i can just lift the lid on this podcasting lifestyle you know there are some things that we say for entertainment purposes right because we think it's going to get a bit of a laugh or it's going to get a bit of a rise i just want to say genuinely 100 i fucking hate this game and the bad the worst part of it is everybody knows i hate it and i get so much feedback on it that how much people enjoy it that makes makes it worse i absolutely hate this game. Let's recap what happened last week. No. We had Stuart Thornton and Greg Silby, two colleagues at Haggis Pinball and you are going to have to throw one of them out of a plane without a parachute. And I think Ryan saved your bacon. He really did. Ryan, his big mouth, I should have popped him in the mouth for that. He came in with the save and said Stuart's Inspector Gadget and... That's true. Thank you, Ryan. How was it at work though, seriously? Well, the funny thing was I had told both Greg and Stuart probably four or five days before the episode aired that this week's Who Will I Survive was between the two of them. I mentioned it to them individually. They both had the same reaction, which was, oh, well, I'm fucked.
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    So I don't know how to take that, whether they just think that that's what I think of them. But anyway, they both survived. One might still have a lingering disease, but other than that, they both survived the plane. That's the main thing. What are you going to put me through this time? Well, it is Father's Day weekend, so I was thinking, you know, there are some fathers out there. Now, Father's Day weekend in Australia, but I'm thinking globally. I'm thinking of who are the fathers, and they both have young children. One man has three kids, the other his only child. So devout fathers. I'm not going to sway you either way. You know, who's the better person? This is all up to you, Marty. But the scenario, sadly, is a ticking time bomb. No way to defuse this thing. Somebody's got to go. But you can save one of them. Who are these fathers? One is Josh Sharp. The other is Zach Sharp. They're brothers, even. Oh, boy. Who gets saved? Marty, think about it. You know both men. They've both been on this show. Remember, I'm not actually trying to say this for comedic purposes either, but do I actually have to save one? Fuck, I like that answer. I really do. You know? You want to save it for somebody else, a tougher duo. Should there be another one down? You know, we do this weekly. I was thinking, this is a good... We do get tons of feedback. People love this. Do I make a bracket thing of who's already saved? No, we'll do it audio. Okay. Again, it always comes back to whom I believe would save me in this situation. Selfish. So, I mean, I think, well, no, not necessarily. But I'm trying to think about if I'm going to save somebody and we're going to escape this room that's got the ticking time bomb, what if we go into a room next to us and there's another time bomb and it's this person's choice to either save me or them? You know what I mean? So I've got to think who would have my back. And this is a really easy decision. Wow. Really easy. It is for me too, but that's a given. Zach Sharp would have my back. Josh Sharp would go, you know what? I'm sorry. I'm not responsible for this. I'm out of here. Whereas Zach would say, Zach would say to me, I cannot confirm or deny whether you will die here. but I'm going to at least try to save you and I think that's why he gets the save. It's less of a negative with Zach. It's a good call, Marty. It's a good call. And I'm not even doing the, oh, I hate Josh Sharp and Josh Sharp, Josh Sharp. I'm not even doing that. I genuinely would take Zach because I think he would save me. Ah, another good addition. This has been fun. Marty, if people want to reach us, where can they find us? They can find us at Gmail, which is finalroundpinball at gmail.com. Instagram is FinalRoundPinballPodcast. Twitter is at FinalRoundPin. If you go to FinalRoundPinball on Facebook, you'll find us. That's us. Have we covered everything? Did I miss anything? Because let me check the show notes. Oh, we don't have any. We never do. Until the next fortnight. Thanks for listening. My name is Geoff Teolas. My name is Martin Robbins. It's been our pleasure. Speak to you soon.