Children being, that's what they say when we're together. And watch how you play, they don't understand. And so we're running just as fast as we can. Sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up. Welcome everybody to Canada's Pinball Podcast. Who's going to make the next move? This is what I keep wondering in the world of pinball. It is mid-April. We got Jaws four months ago. We got Elton John like six months ago. We got the Big Lebowski 10 years ago. We got Alice in Wonderland 15 years ago. Who's going to make the next major pinball move? Now look, all signs are pointing. If Stern does three cornerstone games a year, they're going to be next up. What's up with Pedretti Gaming? Where's this Funhaus remake? What is Andrea Pedretti waiting for? Newsflash, bro. Your game came out 30 years ago. And a Brian Allen art package is not going to justify the price. You waited too long. You've been sleeping on this title. And you thought it was going to be a mystery. And you were going to reveal it to the world. But Kaneda spoiled your plans. Maybe they're calling in Audible. Maybe they're going to put something in front of Funhaus now that Canada spoiled their plans. But yes, it's Funhaus. Where's the next game going to come from Spooky Pinball? They've got maybe to the end of the year. We're probably not going to see the next Spooky game until sometime in December. Where's the Princess Bride? Jerry's strategy of show a game eight months before you make it. Ladies and gentlemen, for the record, it is not hard. There's only three things you should do when you sell a pinball machine. Are you ready for it? And if Elton John did this, it would be more successful. If Jerry did this, it would be more successful. And Stern Pinball does it every single time. And it's really easy. Here's the formula. You make a game first. It's on the line. Before you do anything else, get the game on the line. Okay, so you make it. The second thing you do is you reveal it. Now you reveal it to the world after it's already being made. Because if you're not confident that the game you're making is going to sell, here's what you should do. You shouldn't make it. You shouldn't have to reveal a game to gauge whether or not there's going to be interest in your pinball title. You've been around for over a decade, Jerry. You know the formula. So you make the game first, then you reveal it, and then people review it. That's how it should work. Now look, you might want to adjust sections three and two a little bit because imagine this, you make a game like Elton John. It's an incredible game. They didn't make the game first. They revealed the game first, then they made it, and then people reviewed it. Now think about that for a minute. Think about the span of time that happened between those three elements. Like Jersey Jack revealed the game in October when no Elton Johns were on the line. So nobody got a chance to play it. Nobody could get the game immediately. Nobody could share their reviews of the game. Did Jersey Jack invite the pinball media and people that have large audiences? Just think about it for a minute. Everybody who listens to Canada's Pinball Podcast, to Kerry Hardy, to Zach Menny, to Slam Tilt, to Loser Kid, to Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, If you add up all of us, we have more listeners combined than the total number of Elton John games they will ever sell. In fact, just one of these shows, these major shows in the pinball content space, has more potential buyers than they will ever sell of the game. Did they invite any of the pinball media into Jersey Jack to play the game, to understand why they made the game to allow us to gush over how great the game is because the game is really great. No, they didn't do that. What they did was they revealed it early because they were nervous about Jaws. The games were not on the line. They brought a few of them to shows. And guess what happened at the shows? People jumped on the game and they had a great time, but it didn't matter because none of them were on the line. So nobody was going to rush to order those games for $12,000 $15,000 because they were watching everybody lose $3,000 to $5,000 on Toy Story 4 sales and Godfather sales. So they made a boneheaded move. And then by the time the game is finally on the line, it's like four months later. And then by the time the great reviews are rolling in, it's like five or six months later. And even though the Elton John reviews are great right now, people are now going to wait because think about it. Do you really think Elton Johns are going to go up in value? No, they're not. And now you're waiting because it's been six months since they revealed Elton John. And if you're smart, you're just going to say, hey, like if I just wait four more months, I'm going to be able to see the next Jersey Jack game. I'll be able to decide, do I want one of those or do I want to get an Elton John? And trust me, people, I know that in the owner's thread, people are like the Elton John CEs are going to sell out and you're never going to be able to get one. Let me tell you, that is a flat out lie. It is never going to be hard in the history of pinball to get a $15,000 Elton John. You will always be able to get this game if you have $15,000 in your pocket. And history has shown us that you will most likely easily be able to get this game for less than $15,000 when the time comes. Now, look, this is why pinball is weird to me right now when I'm thinking about who's going to make the next move, because why did Jerry reveal Princess Bride? It's not on the line. He wants to take your non-refundable deposit. it and by the time the Princess Bride game is shipping and people actually get to have one, nobody's going to care. I just think this hobby for where we're at, you need to follow the formula that works Now look let me go on a little bit of a side tangent here Most ridiculous item I saw this week So for Jersey Jack will sell you one of the most beautiful pinball machines ever made in Elton John collector edition One of the elements of that beautiful version of the game is the glorious topper that sits on top of that game. And one of the cool features of that topper is a laser show that can project like all of this cool stuff. And it also can project the Elton John name and also the Jersey Jack logo. Super cool. It puts it onto the ceiling. Now here's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. And Jersey Jack, you have to be kidding me. With all of your people working at Jersey Jack, that nobody looked over this machine before it went out the door. When it projects Elton John and the Jersey Jack logo onto the ceiling, if you're playing the game and you look at the ceiling, Elton John is upside down. The name is upside down. You see the upside down N when you look left to right. The Jersey Jack logo is also upside down. Are you effing kidding me? This is the most boneheaded, Are we this lazy that nobody looked over that and said, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Every single pinball machine is set up with the backbox against a wall. So everybody looking up at the ceiling is going to be looking from the player's point of view. That would be like in the Batman game when the bat signal goes off onto the wall or ceiling, the bat signal is upside down. Jersey Jack, fix this problem now. I see people having to like undo their toppers and change all the wires and try to rotate this thing upside down. No, Jersey Jack installed it upside down. How stupid can you be that for $15,000, nobody stood over that machine and said, huh, wait a minute, the name is upside down. And why does Canada have to point this stuff out? Why does it have to be me? Why was I the one who saw hedge multi-bar when Spooky made that mistake? Why can't these companies just use some freaking common sense? You are selling the most expensive pinball machine of all time. Every single detail matters. And if you think this is nitpicking, it's not nitpicking because trust me, if you own this machine and you look up and you see an upside down Elton John, that will annoy you forever. It will never stop being annoying. And if you think Kanae is annoying by bringing this up, then I can point at six twippies that prove there's a reason why we need to harp on this stuff because when I harp on this stuff, I guarantee you the later builds of Elton John will have that damn thing turned upside down so it looks correctly when you're playing the game. And you can thank Kaneda for that because I'm going to keep harping on this until they fix it. Spooky pinball fixed hedge multi-ba. Who do you think got that done when you say Kaneda does nothing good for this hobby? All right, so we've got multi-morphic. Are they going to make the next move? No, by the time that game comes out, nobody's going to care. Is Pulp Fiction going to be the next move? I mean, the SEs are going out the door and I'm here to report for you as doing my market research on whether or not people would pay over sticker now for a Pulp Fiction LE. At the very beginning, when Pulp Fiction LE was announced, people were getting $2,500 over for their spots. And we've been living in a pinball world now where nothing goes up in value. Nobody's paying over for anything anymore. That used to be table stakes. Like every hot game, you could always get $2,000 to $3,000 over listing if you got one. And if you got one of 500. Now that we live in this world where there's 1,000 of everything and everything's super expensive, I wanted to do some market research. Would people still, in April, with a 14-month delay, would they pay over sticker for a game that's not even out yet? Like this game might not even be out until like September, October. And I'm here to tell you right now, on the table, I started it at $2,500, got zero bites. I can tell you right now, on the table cash, I have at least a couple offers at $1,000. Now look, you could say, Kaneda, take that $1,000 for doing nothing. and put it in your pocket and put that into the second baby's college fund and just walk away. You did nothing. You made a thousand dollars. And now I know what it feels like to be a distributor. I know what it feels like for just a little bit to feel like a distributor. You're going to give me a thousand dollars for doing nothing. Just taking the game from a manufacturer and sending it to a consumer. And I didn't even do anything. Man, it feels good to be a distributor for just a few seconds. Here's the thing. I might take it. I might not. I still think there's 1500 on the table, but I'm also going to be honest with everybody out there right now. When they make a thousand of these games, do I think they're going to go up in value? No, a thousand is just too many. Now, the only thing working in Pulp Fiction's favor is the fact that the game didn't start at a high price. It's 9,500, right? That's a good price. Because remember, that's $3,500 less than what these like Stern LEs are and it's a lot less money. It's $5,500 less money than an Elton John CE. $5,500. Like that's a lot of money. That's basically like a Stern Pro and a Pulp Fiction LE for the price of a Jersey Jack single machine. And that is why, you know, when you look at Pulp Fiction, there is some wiggle room for that game to go up in value, not by a lot. And we all know this that a thousand of anything is just not rare. And here's the real problem for Pulp Fiction. I think this is going to happen. Someone's going to make a bootleg topper. And when that happens and someone makes a bootleg topper, you're never going to be able to stop it. You're never going to be able to shut it down. It's going to happen. Every Pulp Fiction SE has the plugin ready for the topper. So someone's just going to deconstruct an LE topper and make another version of it. It's just plastic people. It's just a mold. Like you could send that thing over to China and they'll have an exact duplicate in like an hour for 50 bucks. And so that is really going to be the only thing that makes Pulp Fiction hold value because it's not like the LE has better sound. It has no different artwork. I mean, the cabinet's exactly the same. The backbox is a little bit different, but not that noticeable. The speakers are the same. Maybe the coin door is different, but that's easy to replicate, you know, and so I think it's going to be really easy for people with the SE to make theirs feel just as special as an LE and let face it nothing with a thousand is limited nothing with a thousand is really collectible And that just where pinball is at But who going to make the next move Who going to make the next move Is it going to be Pedretti I think they waited too long Is it going to be Stern Pinball? Absolutely. I think Stern Pinball, if you think about who's next up at the plate, I think it's going to be this John Wick game. If my rumor is right, It's by a new designer or Tim Sexton as the designer. I don't think it's going to be Borg. I don't think it's going to be Elwin. I don't think it's going to be Brian Eddy. I don't think it's going to be George Gomez. So we're all waiting for that game. And the good news is it should come out within a month. And I think we're going to see it sometime either end of April, early May. And from there, the next games coming out are either going to be ABBA, which nobody really cares about, Alice in Wonderland. I do think that Dutch Pinball X is going to have a hard time selling 500 of these at like around $15,000. I think Melvin's going to learn a little bit of a lesson. You got to rip off this J-Pop Band-Aid and you got to warm people up to this game. And I don't think he's going to do that. And I've been asking Barry for some assets. I've been giving them some advice. I know they're listening to this show right now. Gentlemen, trust me when I say this. We all know it's Alice in Wonderland. We all know what your plans are. And I think you need to slowly warm people up to this whole approach. Your entire marketing strategy is going to fly in the face of common sense because people don't want to support anything that comes from the world of J-pop. The artist of Alice in Wonderland doesn't support this move. And so you're going to have to do more work than you realize. If you think you're just going to pull the curtain off this thing and they're going to sell out instantly, I think you're going to be in for a rude awakening because the rest of the world does not share the enthusiasm as apparently people in the Netherlands do for recreating and revitalizing John Papadiuk's creations. And I think you're coming into a very difficult time in pinball. Things are very expensive and people are out of room. And so for people to free up space for a game like this, and especially if you're going after high-end collectors, which you are, I really think you're going to have to speak to them differently. And again, you're calling it Dutch Pinball Exclusive. I think what they should be doing is they should be inviting some people in. They should be identifying some of these high-end collectors, having them sign NDAs, and start to show them stuff that's non-transferable. And what I mean by that is you can do that. You can invite people into a room at an event, Take away their cell phones and show them some stuff. Start to create a little bit of a groundswell. I haven't seen much. I mean, I've seen an unpopulated play field. I've seen some black and white art and I've seen some images of it colored in and that's it. Nothing else. And I've been asking them for weeks, just give me something to keep people excited about this game and to keep this game top of mind. And I haven't gotten anything. and again I think they're gonna learn a lesson it's just not like if you build it they will come especially with a J-pop game like this and as much as they say it's not a J-pop game come on guys you base this off of John Papadiuk's foam core game like that is what you design this off of just show some of the music like how hard would it be to just release some of the music from Alice in Wonderland so people could just listen to it. You could show some of the animations and not even show any, any of the design yet, like any of the physical pinball machine. I mean, think about that for a minute. Name me a pinball company to get you excited about its game. They release the music first, right? Or release some of the call outs or put together like a fun mixtape of what's going to be in the game. Nothing, nada, everybody wake up, try new marketing things, try new ideas. Why does everything always have to be so formulaic? Here's the underside of the machine. And then we're going to wait a month and then we're going to show you a video and then we're going to do a 20 minute. Here's what went into the making. And that's it. That's all we can do. Pinball marketing is driven by the laziest marketers on the planet because they know they don't need to do much because the buyers have shown them that you will buy stuff without needing to even play the game, see the game, hear the game, see pinball moments that are exciting. No, no, no, no, no. Not going to work anymore. It's not going to work anymore. With all of these companies and all of this competition, it's going to require marketing to work harder than ever before. That is the whole point of marketing. How can I entice somebody to choose my product, my brand over the competition? There is not enough room in pinball for 15 companies. There's not enough room in your game room for 15 company games. So it's going to get very competitive. Is the move going to come from Turner Pinball? I don't know. Chris Turner wants to talk. Chris, I know you're a fan of the show. I know you're listening right now. We're going to find some time to talk. I'm not ignoring you. I'm just planning all this stuff with baby arriving. So I'm just trying to figure out when I can do an interview. Is the next move going to come from American Pinball? I mean, that's just like stupid to say. I mean, think about how stupid that sounds. Is the next big move in pinball going to come from American Pinball? It doesn't even make any sense. Like everyone's just laughing. I know the next big move is not going to come from American Pinball, but what is the next move they're even going to do? I don't even see an out for this company. Ryan McQuaid's Cuphead is going to be dead on arrival and maybe they just throw out the bomb and make Dennis Nordman's Whitewater sequel but I'm going to tell you right now that's also going to bomb there's not a market in modern pinball for a Whitewater sequel like that's not what people want enough with these remakes enough with retreading the past the future of pinball are future titles like that's just the way it's going to be it's not going to be about remakes that's why like haggis is dead like you don't even hear people talk about haggis like are they still making fathoms like what's happening like after they said they were gonna recapitalize there's been absolutely zero communication from the world of haggis from damien i feel like everyone's just giving up and maybe that's their plan is to get everybody to lower their expectations and take the spotlight off of them. There's definitely no spotlight on them. I don't know. I feel like Haggis is dead I think American Pinball is dead I think Multimorphic is just going to keep doing what they doing They never going to sell a ton of machines I think Jerry got enough financially to keep this thing going forever He must have enough to just keep this going forever because it doesn't seem like they're making a ton of money selling these games. I think Spooky's next game is going to be more universally appealing than both Texas Chainsaw and Looney Tunes, but that's not coming to the end of the year. So here's the thing, people. I think the next four to five months are going to be defined by a few things. I think Alice in Wonderland is gonna create a lot of conversation. I don't think it's gonna sell out. I think they need to start marketing this thing differently if they wanna sell it out. So that's Alice in Wonderland. Then we've got Funhaus. I don't think that is gonna do well at all. There's not a lot of people that want a new Funhaus. I don't care what art package you put on it, it's just not the right time for a game like that. Pulp Fiction LEs are already sold out, so they don't have to sell those out. But I think by the time they finish making so many SEs, by the time Pulp Fiction LE comes out, nobody's gonna care. It's like a movie that's been in the theaters now for two years. By the time those LEs come out, nobody's gonna really care. And that's just that. Elton John, as I said earlier, it's a great game. If you get some time on one, you're absolutely gonna love it. But I think they launched it all wrong. And I don't think there's gonna be this like second coming. I think Jersey Jack is gonna make it up until they don't make it. And then they're not gonna make any more. I think there will be a little bit of a FOMO run on Elton John at the very end. But if you want one, and I mean this when I say it, if you want a CE or you want a platinum edition, you will always be able to get one regardless of the year, regardless of the month. And you're always going to be able to get one for less than 15 or 12. That's just going to be the case. If you think no one's ever going to sell an Elton John, you're out of your mind. And I also think Jersey Jack, stop being boneheads. Turn the logos around on the topper for the CE. We need them to. It is so silly and stupid. I think Stern's John Wick is going to struggle. I do. I think it's going to struggle. I think it's too much money for a theme that doesn't have that like take my money now quality. And I think it's going to be from a new designer. And I bet it's not that loaded with mechs. And I think a lot of us are going to be looking at these Sterns now. differently than we ever have before. And I think, you know, that's going to be the thing with John Wick. The big mystery is what is the next game from JJP? Because again, over the next four to five months, who has the potential to make the major move? It's not going to be John Wick. It's not going to be Funhouse. It's not going to be Elton John's second life. It's not going to be ABBA. It's not going to be Princess Pride. I still think it's Jersey Jacks like summer to lose. And you want to know what I heard from somebody, and this is crazy. And he can come on the record or publicly say he never said this. But I heard that Steve Ritchie told somebody that Mark Seiden has more talent than Keith Elwin. And on his first game, he's running circles around Keith Elwin. Man, man, I feel like there is like real bitter blood between Steve Ritchie and Keith Elwin. You know what? They're both great designers. They're both great designers. But do you think that's true? That Mark Saiten's first game is going to run circles around Keith Elwin? I think it's Harry Potter. I do know that JJP has the Harry Potter and the Matrix license. Jack has told this to people. They have both. So if Mark Saiten's game is not the Matrix, I think it's Harry Potter. You know, maybe the whole, like, you got to warm up to the theme is a joke. I think that might be a sarcastic comment. and I think it's gonna be Harry Potter and I think it's gonna be loaded and if it's next, it's just gonna make people wait. Now we might have to wait until like June, July, August, but man, there's no way Elton John's are gonna keep selling for the next four months. So that's where we're at with pinball. All I really wanna see is some move, somebody make a move. Let's see Funhaus, let's see John Wick and then let's keep speculating about what's next from JJP. But right now, mid-April, people, it's getting pretty boring. The only exciting thing happening pinball is Canada's Pinball Podcast. Everybody, thank you so much for being a subscriber. As we saw on my show yesterday, it's one of my pet peeves. These like millionaire collectors, right? This guy Bedrick, he's got over a million dollars in pinball machines. He enjoys Canada's Saturday Morning Spectacular every Saturday. And he loves the free content. And when I asked him, why don't you support the show? $5 a month. You're a multi-millionaire and you come here and you enjoy 90 minutes for free of Canada's Facebook Live every week. When you watch a show on Netflix, aren't you subscribing? When Bedrick goes to the movie theater and he watches 90 minutes of entertainment, does he not pay the movie theater? And again, it's just funny to me. It's like the people with the most money, Bill Brandis, Bedrick, Neil McCray, they're all so rich that they can't support pinball content creators that they engage with every single week. And yet they'll go to Pinside. You know how much Robin makes a year? Over $400,000 because you all contribute to him and then you give him money when you sell a game. You know, it's crazy to me. $400,000 to run Pinside, everybody. So I thank you for your $5 or more. It means the world to me. It's not a lot. I'm not getting rich doing this, but it just means the world that each and every one of you, your mamas raised you right. You're not cheap. You're not frugal. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart because you are the kind of men and women that I want to raise my children to be. If someone gives you something that entertains you and that you like and you support it wouldn't kill you to kick a little support I mean we just kicked as a canada fan base like you guys we just kicked over to a bartender at jack bar She is now going to get over 500 Out of the kindness of your heart and dudes like bedrick and bill and neil all these rich fat cats that are just hanging out for free they really should be ashamed of themselves everybody have a great day we'll talk to you soon canada's on it flip those freaking logos upside down jersey jack what are you doing later Let me in your heartbeat, let me feel your heartbeat Let me touch your heartbeat, I can change your heartbeat I'm all yours, I'm all yours