it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teal so you can find everything on pinballprofile.com check us out on facebook as well we're on twitter and instagram and you can email us pinballprofile at gmail.com a thrill today to be talking to wanna summers hi wanna how are you hey there thanks for having me jeff it's kind of like back-to-back baltimore for me I just had Howard Dobson on, and now we've got one on. So I'm sticking in Maryland. Well, we'd love to have you once we're actually able to go anywhere. I run a lot of events with Howard, so I'm thrilled to hear that you had him on the show, too. I've been to Baltimore once. I was there for two, three days. I did Baltimore two days, and then I did Washington for a day, and actually wound up coming back three days later. Loved my time there. It was right after Pinburgh, funny enough. I just kind of drove to Baltimore, saw some baseball games, went to Washington. Then I went to Philly and then down to North Carolina, back up to Washington. Had a good time, but didn't get enough pinball fix in. And there's a lot there. I know of your history with, I think it was Holy for Holies. Yeah, I've been playing at Holy for Holies for a little over five years now and now help run two leagues there. And also, I mean, we're going to get into the Women's Advisory Board, which is very, very important. I'm so glad. I think that's one of the best moves IFPA has made in a long time and really progressive, and we're seeing some of those changes. We're going to get to that in a bit, but as far as your pinball career, yeah, holy for holies. And then I have to say, I checked out your IFPA stats and just wanted to look, how did this all start for Juana? And it started with one of Kevin Stone's DMV leagues, and let's just paint the picture. There were 79 people playing, and Juana played in her first league and came in 72nd. That didn't matter. You caught the bug anyway. And I still stuck around somehow. It was, you know, I happened on pinball completely by chance. We used to have the big mega league, the D.C., Maryland and Virginia League. And one of the locations was Holy for Holies, actually, which is now down the street from my house. I moved to Boulder Park within the time that I started playing. That's really what got me hooked. I started playing with my now husband before we got married and we started just playing it for Holies and have been one of the original members of the league ever since there's been competitive pinball there. And yeah, now it takes up most of my non-work life, actually, between all of the leagues and the IFPA Women's Board and lots of other side pinball projects too. Juana, I bring that up to point out to people listening. There are people that are like, oh, I don't know about leagues. I don't know if I'm going to have fun or I'm not as good as some of the other people. First of all, it doesn't matter. Secondly, you will get better. You will have fun. And here's a case for you. in 2015 never have ever played pinball before. I'm not talking about a league, not talking about casual, ever. This woman comes from Kansas City, Missouri, goes to Baltimore, finds a pinball machine with your now husband, and just got hooked. And that has led, in a short period of time, to you setting up Bells and Chimes Baltimore and now being part of the Women's Advisory Board. That is an amazing five-year run. Well, thank you. I will tell you, it's funny because I didn't actually think it would stick after that first year and after the first night, actually, I committed the worst pinball faux pas ever and played someone else's ball during, I think, my first game of my first day of league ever and ended up getting yelled at, got really upset and ended up almost in tears, actually in tears, and still came back five years later. So even if the first experience is a bust, sometimes there's something in it for you. I don't know what happened after that, but every single person who's ever played in a tournament or a league has done exactly that. Everyone's played someone else's ball. And for that to happen in your first event, that would be discouraging to some people. I don't know what kind of grace they gave you or if it was too serious and sorry, the rules are the rules kind of thing. But some people, that would turn them off forever. And I find in some leagues, they're a little more flexible if it's certainly not a playoff. But you really want to invite more people in. And I know you're a big part of wanting to invite more and more people into leagues. Yeah, look, I am the first person to be a big stickler on the rules as an organizer, as a TD. But I do think it's important, especially with first time players, to show people some grace. You don't want to turn people off immediately from being a part of your community. And particularly if they're dealing with a rule set that is foreign to them or that they don't understand. It's essentially like if you go to a foreign country and you don't speak the language, You can't expect someone to speak the language the first time they encounter it. So acting with grace and a little bit of understanding helps. Now, I definitely did get DQ'd for that game. But I still came back, and now I learn the rules and I speak the language. You know, you and I first met each other. It was two years ago, and I had to check, and you and I did not have very good rounds. I'm blaming the games, by the way. Rolling Stones, Mick on a Stick, no one has a good game on that. It wasn't good. It was not good. It was my first Pembroke, though, so memorable nonetheless. Taxi, it's hit or miss, depending how tough it is. And you know the Papa games are tough. Space Race, forget about it. And Stern Magic wasn't a good bank. No, although I have to say Taxi is now one of my absolute favorite games. Probably would be the next thing I'd buy if I had any more space for Pembroke machines in my house. Wonderful Mark Ritchie game. Great flow. If the flippers are working, even better. Sometimes, you know, on location, they get a little banged up. That wasn't the case at Pimberg, especially with how well they're run at Papa. But it is a fun game, too. And it's just way ahead of its time. It's great to hear you say you like that game. Yeah, like I said, we have one. Holy Follies has one on site. And so I kind of fell in love with it there. And it's definitely one that I now get excited about every time I see it in a tournament bank. But not that time. I did mention I want to come back to Baltimore. Was hoping to come back this October. Don't know 100% if that's going to happen, obviously, with COVID-19. But Pin Baltimore is a big event that happened last year, early October. Trent Augenstein pretty much walked away with the classics in the main. But it was a huge event, and I know you're a big part of that. Yeah, it was. It's primarily run by Jake Peterson and Jeff Danik, who owns Holy for Holies, and our friend Howard Dobson is the head TD. I do a whole lot of volunteer things and organizing for Pin Baltimore, and it's a mix of pinball, arts, entertainment, and really great Mexican food. It's my favorite thing that we do here every year because it brings out such a cool community and people from across the region and even outside the region. You know, TBD, what will happen this year? Obviously, we're all weighing what we can do and what we should do with COVID. And I know there are still restrictions in our state on what can happen. So I have my fingers crossed just to see what happens next. But it doesn't happen this year. I have no doubt that these guys and me working with them will bring it back bigger and better than ever next year. Yeah, fingers crossed for sure. I think we're all in a holding pattern right now and seeing how certain states and provinces and countries around the world are with the IFPA situation as it stands right now. In talking with Josh, there's no real immediate need to get back to competitive pinball with the way the state of the world is right now. But unfortunately, it's things like Pin Baltimore, places that I wanted to go to for the first time to check out. But you and I have something in common. With your work, and you work for NPR, you have said before, and you can see it on your IFPA bio, that you want to play pinball in every different state. And hopefully with travel and with work, that might be possible. So I want to get to Maryland, and I want to play in a Baltimore event. And pinball was the one I kind of had circled. Oh, man, yeah. We're hoping to be back. And I really, like you said, I miss traveling for pinball so much. That's always the joy of it. I spend 50% of my year on the road a lot of years. and one of the joys of it is getting to pop into people's tournaments or just even little bars or arcades and getting to find machines just as a little a break in the day when you're on the road so much and there's not a lot of familiarity it's it's just one of the best parts of traveling and i miss it a lot traveling is special and because i mean right now the canadian u.s border is actually closed and probably will be for some time so you know my wife and i are like okay what are we gonna do here in canada where can we camp next because it so difficult with covet 19 but yeah I really am missing the travel And you very fortunate through work And I been lucky enough to do so the same to go to all these different events And I always take something from each event that I want to bring back home. Or if I run an event, what are some of the best things about Penn Baltimore? And I ask because I haven't been there. I see that a lot of people contribute games. But I like the music atmosphere. It seems like a real blast. I think what's so fun about Penn Baltimore is that you get this mix of pinball tournament and punk rock show. If folks haven't been to kind of paint a picture, all we have, we blow out one side of the restaurant completely with just all games that are brought in from within our community and outside of it that are open if you just have a wristband. And then upstairs through this winding set of once very rickety stairs in an unfinished portion of the restaurant, we have all of these machines for the tournament, as well as we actually had live bands play up there afterwards last year. And it's just a really cool vibe that I've never seen anyone else. I also love that it's a radically inclusive space. We don't care if you were a person like me in 2015 and you played one tournament or you are Trent Augustine. We want you in our community and we want you to play and have a good time. And we're always bringing something a little different to it. One thing the guys introduced this year that I really love is the two on two challenger tournament that happened after some of the traditional pinball competition happened. I think there's still streams of it online and people dressed up in costumes. Jeff Danik had a microphone in hand a lot of the night and was commentating. We had a real rep, and it was just totally off the walls and fun and just people in the round cheering you on. And I just had never seen anything like it before. You just described something that brings me great joy, and it's these quirky little side tournaments. And the only ones I've kind of done are maybe split flipper or stall ball tournaments, not even tournaments, just, you know, throw a dollar in and whoever's last kind of. I like these, but the reason I think we don't see many of them is because they can't be IFPA sanctioned. So I don't know if they take away from the time for a main tournament, a women's tournament, a classics tournament, a children's tournament, whatever the case may be, things that are sanctioned. And that's why we might not see some of these split flipper or two-on-twos like you mentioned. It's too bad because I think they're a blast. I think they're super fun. And this is something that Jake Peterson, who helps run the league and is one of the folks who runs in Baltimore, has been really intentional about is saying that we love our walker points. We love formal tournaments. We love playing seriously. But if one of your goals for your community and for your events is to create access and build bridges and welcome new people in, sometimes these non-sanctioned and more informal events like a split flip or a stall ball, they're less intimidating. One thing that we actually did with the Holy for Holies League in between season is some of our players stepped up and they actually ran kind of a fun team league where they came up with fun, different formats. And we got a ton of people who played that team league and really liked it. And then they joined our league the next season because we offered them something new and different that wasn't intimidating. And I think it's a great way to open doors within your community. Points are wonderful, but they don't have to be the end game. It just depends on what your goals are and what type of community you want to build. I think the way the IFPA is structured, it's very competitive in nature. But what you're describing will actually grow the competitive side as well, because it is so inviting to people that we'll just call them noobs, people that have never played pinball before. And we were all there one time. And that's why I said your story at the beginning. I'm amazed that you were not discouraged by a DQ, by playing the wrong ball, by maybe not doing as well in the league. for whatever reason you saw something else that made pinball exciting, obviously the joy of the game, the people that you were surrounded by. But I think if you can take out the competitive nature, I know in my leagues, there are people that are like, oh, I'll never win. And it's heartbreaking to see them discouraged because it shouldn't be about that. It should be about fun. And so you kind of hold your breath and wait to be asked, but you really want to help some of the other people because let's put it this way. Some people help me when I probably ask the question, how do you get better at game ABC? But it made it more fun when you knew what you were doing. And for someone like me, seeing somebody who has the enjoyment, the skills, but just maybe not the game knowledge, you have to bite your lip and not say anything because maybe they don't care. Maybe they're just having fun and that's great. But it's the other side when you see them discouraged that, oh, darn, this could be somebody that could be playing pinball for a long time, probably bringing in more people and having so much fun. It's a tough balance for me. Yeah, it is really tough. I think one of the things I try to do as somebody who organizes a lot of events is just keep my relationships with new people really casual and fun. You know, say hi, make yourself known that you can be a resource if they want it. I let them come to me. I don't offer up my help if it's not needed, but let them know like, hey, this is, I'm a person you can talk to if you run into a question, if you have a problem, if a machine eats your money, if the change machine stops working, little things and big things. Another thing that I don't think we talk about enough is the fact that oftentimes when you're looking to make your community bigger or grow it in certain ways, money can be an obstacle. So one thing we always try to do is to make our tournaments really affordable for people so that committing a lot of money, say $40 for a season of a league might be out of reach for some people. So making sure that they can always afford it and that so that that's not yet another restriction from somebody who might want to be a part of your community and your hobby coming into it. That's a good point. Pinball is a pretty expensive hobby. Maybe it's not the couple of dollars you throw in an arcade, but certainly the owning of machines and the travel that we see in competitive pinball. I don't know how we get around that. I don't have a good answer for as a large-scale hobby how we do get around it, but it's my hope that as we continue to be really intentional in thinking about how we grow our hobby and we want to be a part of it, that we say things like you just said, that we acknowledge to the fact that it is very expensive to go to Pembroke. If you want to go to Pembroke and maybe you want to play like I do, like I want to go to Pembroke and I want to play whip if I'm going to go to Pembroke. That's a lot of days off work that I'm not making money. That's a lot of days in a hotel. That's four hours each way in a car, which is a lot of gas, a lot of food. So like these events are wonderful places that we all love to go in again and again and again, but it can feel exclusive for some people. So making sure that we have these big marquee events, but also other events that can draw in people who maybe can't make that much of a commitment, whether it's their finances, whether it's their time, whether it's just their ability to be on their feet for 12 hours a day playing pinball. There's a lot of ways to figure out how to make it more accessible, but while still having the big marquee events that we all love to go to every year. One thing about making it more accessible is to the people involved, too. And that's why I love what Eka Schneider did years ago when she created Bells and Chimes. And you see chapters everywhere. I know your friend Anna Walk, who actually, I think, got you in the Women's Advisory Board, if I'm not correct, or at least suggested it to you. She obviously is big with Bells and Chimes in New York. And those chapters everywhere have brought in so many more women, so many more players. And I just love seeing that grow and grow and grow. And everybody I talk to that participates in Bells and Chimes, everyone, all they talk about is how fun it is and how it's a great blast for everyone. And you can't say that about regular leagues. Yeah, you know, we just started our Bells and Chimes chapter here in Baltimore, actually right before the pandemic started. So we've only had two meetings of our chapter. But what I have really loved is being able to invite. There are women and people from our community who I've seen on the fringes of pinball who have shown interest, who didn't show up to our normal league, who showed up to Bells and Chimes. our bells and chimes chapter here in Baltimore has about 30 players compared to 50 players for our league that's been going five years strong. So that shows me that it's an amazing growth opportunity for folks who are interested in pinball. I never been able to guess at a bells and chimes chapter in another city yet but it seems like a gateway for so many people who want to play competitive pinball and it where they start and then they grow into the hobby So I think for that it certainly worth investing in You mentioned Whipped There was the Women World Championship in March back in Denver. We're seeing pinball grow for women and Bells and Chimes is a big part of that. Are we there yet? Is this the biggest growth demographic you think? I think there's a lot of opportunity for growth in pinball for a lot of the reasons that we already talked about. So I know for me, walking into a pinball tournament for the first time, I felt excited. But it was also a really intimidating environment because as a black woman, there weren't a lot of people that looked like me. I made this joke on the Backbox podcast, but there are often more men named David than women or people of color in the tournaments that I run. And I say that as somebody who's married to a person named David. like so that tells me that there's opportunity to grow these leagues and to grow this hobby that we love and to bring it into so many more spaces and places I think certainly we're seeing that among our our bells chapters with the women and gender non-binary folks who are playing I think we see that a lot in um we see a lot more kids we have kids in our league but in both of our leagues here in Baltimore so I think that's an area for growth but I also think and I know we've been talking about this a lot in the community lately. There's a tremendous space for growth among people of color as well. And I think that's kind of our next bridge. We've really been aggressive in talking about non-white males, for lack of a better word. But I think that there is certainly a lot more space to grow. That Backbox Pinball Podcast. I just had Lauren Gray on our Final Round Pinball Podcast on the Pinball Network. And I told her, and I'll say it here on Pinball Profile, that is, and it's only July, the best pinball podcast episode you will hear all year long. It was really a great panel discussion about diversity and certainly with what's happened here in 2020 over the last few months. One of the things you talked about was the Women's Advisory Board working on something to help TDs, event organizers, the people that run leagues, just general members to recognize any issues that may come up, recognize that we do need to be more diverse? It sounded fantastic and I'm looking forward to it. It is a big, big task for the Women's Advisory Board and I'm just curious where we're at with that because I think it's going to be an excellent resource. Yeah, so I think one of our goals collectively and Kim Martinez in Ohio has been one of the biggest advocates of this on the board is talking about making sure that we create resources for TDs or resources for people who want to become tournament directors. I know when I started running tournaments, I learned from other people in my community who are willing to invest in me and take that time. But often you might want to run events and not know how to learn the rules or not know even what steps to take to make sure that you are creating an accessible, welcome, well-run environment for your prospective players. So that's something we want to be able to offer. But you're absolutely right. It's a lot of work. And to make it comprehensive and good, it's going to take time. So I wanted to offer a couple of things that I think are really helpful and that have worked for us locally. And I think that the biggest thing that I would suggest to people who are trying to do this work within pinball is making sure if your goal is to make your community more diverse, you have to prioritize access and safety. And that tone starts at the top. So you have to set a tone that people who are going to play in your events or who are going to be a part of your community must feel safe and welcome and create an environment that is accessible and hold all of your players to that standard. One of the things we did in the Holy for Whole Ways Pinball League is to create a code of conduct that is visible in a living document. We literally printed it out and sat it on tables at the bar and asked people that if they were going to continue to play in our league, that they must read and agree to it. That includes guests who are not members of the league. And if you bring a guest, you're responsible for the people that you ride and die with. Like if they are misbehaving, they are your responsibility. And the biggest thing I always suggest people may ask me, how do you do this work? Is that you have to enforce your rules across the board. Just because your buddy is acting up or doing something inappropriate that violates your rules, they can't get a free pass. They have to be held accountable just as much as any other player in your league. So those are kind of some of the guiding principles that I think about as an organizer when I'm trying to figure out how to make a space that is safe and welcoming and that, frankly, that people can see from the outside is safe and welcoming and that will make them feel included. You just have to make it visible and you have to be willing to have some hard conversations sometimes. I feel fortunate. Julie Dorsers, who's a wonderful woman in our London, Ontario Pinball League, created such a document two years ago, and it didn't cover everything. Certainly not some of the things we can add here in 2020 that were probably overlooked at the time, but certainly our attention is now focused on the whole aspect of that comfort zone of when you're playing pinball. And I think every league can do that, and I like that you did the same thing. There it is. It comes from the top. Every person has to sign it, and you're held accountable to that. That's a great starting point that any league and even probably tournaments can do, too. I mean, really, we all do sign-ups and registries. We could probably add it to tournaments as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's one of the things, and Jake Peterson put this in a thread on Tilt Forums and mentioned this, but at Penn Baltimore, there are signs that make really clear that we're committed to safety and inclusion, that we're hung up at the events that one of our league players, Tony, created. that states that people are welcome. And it tells you, most importantly, if you feel unwelcome, what actions you can take. And I think that's just so important. And the other thing I wanted to know really quickly is that when I say the tone starts at the top, accountability also starts at the top. So that means that if a tournament director or somebody who's in a position of power in your community is acting out, you have to be willing to accept sanctions and to get sanctioned for your behavior just as much as any other attendee. It is just as much on you to behave within the confines of the code of conduct that you create. And I think that's something that people sometimes don't think about. That's a great point. Let's say you're in a league and you're enjoying the league and you're enjoying the majority of players. And darn it, it's a host or it's maybe a TD or whatever the case may be. And it's somebody in a quote unquote position of power that you're having difficulty with. Where can we go? I mean, you can certainly talk to the other league members, but it saddens me. But it happens all the time that people leave this hobby because of horrible situations like that. But it doesn't have to be that way. Is there something we can do maybe with the IFPA? Any suggestions on that, Juana? I would urge those people, if you're experiencing that kind of situation, to reach out to Josh or to reach out to the Women's Board. I know that that sounds like a super escalation of a situation, but that's what we exist for, is to make sure that these problematic behaviors aren't continuing. And I get that it can be incredibly scary or intimidating to think, man, I'm escalating a problem in my local community to be literal president of the IFPA. But that's what the job is. The IFPA has a responsibility to handle these types of issues. And we've said pretty clearly what the rules are around those types of issues. And we want to know about it. In one breath, COVID-19 has definitely handcuffed us. We aren't playing in leagues. We're not playing in tournaments. A lot of location pinball is certainly suffering with shutdowns and depending on what phases they're at. And we certainly feel for those owner operators. But on the other side, it maybe gives us more time and attention to make what we have existing that much better. And I think this is one of those great examples, too, with what the Women's Advisory Board is doing. Yeah, I think that's right. I think as I think about it, this is a time for all of us in the spaces that we're in, but particularly the spaces in which we may have power and or influence to question and reflect on our roles, to question and think about what voices we're elevating and what voices aren't being heard. And I think that goes for us who are involved with the IFPA organizationally, for pinball companies, for players, for streamers, for pinball media. We love this hobby. We want people to feel welcome, and that means we all have to do our part. And so I think that while this is devastating and I miss my friends and I miss tournaments, I hope that people use this time to do some constructive work I don think that an unreal suggestion at all I think that very possible too But a lot of people aren in your position Forget the Women Advisory Board just running tournaments as well There are a lot of players, and there are people that have never volunteered before. People don't understand how difficult it is to be a TD to run these big events. And I always like to talk to different TDs like yourself. And what are some of the challenges that you face, Juana? I think, honestly, one of the bigger challenges that I face as a TD is that often people assume I'm not a TD and that I'm married to a TD or I'm dating a TD or I've never played pinball before. That sucks. Yeah, it does. And it happens a lot. And it's really funny that it's still happening five years later. But, you know, people make their choices. So one of the things that's often funny that will happen is when people look for a ruling. And it's usually people who aren't commonly playing in our leagues or who aren't commonly playing in our tournaments where they'll go to the white guy next to me to look for their ruling. And that's just it's just not acceptable. It just isn't. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges. And one of the things that's happened is with I think I've been TDing for, gosh, two or three years now is I've gained a lot more confidence in my position in the community. I've gained a lot more confidence with making rulings. So something that I might have shrugged off and just let one of my co-TDs answer, that's just, that's no longer going to be what's happened. It's calling that person in and being like, hey, actually, you know, I'm a tournament director. I help run this league. I can actually help you with what's going on here. And just being very direct about it. Now, that's not everybody's approach. That's how I choose to handle things. But it certainly can be a challenging environment sometimes. Or where people want to question you and assume that they know more than you do. I got to tell you, I think with what's happened in 2020, eyes are being opened everywhere for the better, I hope. I'll give you an example. I come across a lot of different people, and I don't know if I have ever ignored it, but just kind of maybe not given it the attention it deserves. When you hear something definitely off color, definitely rude, I don't engage those people, and now I do. Just to simply say, hey, that's offside or point out that not acceptable. I don't even want to say sadly. I have lost, I would say, four or five what I thought were friends because of some of the words and actions that these people have taken over the last few months in light of George Floyd, in light of Breonna Taylor, and the other injustices that we have been seeing. And I just kind of now want to distance myself from these people because I'm finding it difficult with some people to educate them. And it's I hate throwing up my hands like that. But when you get such resistance, I'm a coward in the way that I just disconnect as opposed to try to educate. I wish I was stronger and I wish I could make them see the light, so to speak. Yeah. I mean, look, it's not easy. I think that these are hard conversations, but they're conversations that have to be had because while these are people you or others may not be keeping in their life, they're at somebody's pinball tournament or they're at somebody's company softball team or they're at somebody's workplace or somebody's kid's school. And so I think if I could ask for one thing from people, it's that we've got to be more we've got to learn how to be more comfortable and confident in talking about things that make you uncomfortable. If you're a person of a minority group, because those of us that are members of minority groups don't have a choice but to be comfortable talking about those things. And it can be intimidating and challenging for us, too. But it's crucial to our livelihoods. It's crucial to our daily lives. And I think I have been encouraged to see so many more people in our shared pinball community stepping up and have these conversations. But we need more. There's a lot more work to be done. And I think that you would benefit from a lot more people thinking about moments like what you just described and the privilege inherent in being able to just push someone out of your life rather than always having the hard conversation. And I do. I know that it's hard, but it's certainly not as hard as the people being affected. So I hear you loud and clear and I will do my part. And I think everyone is trying to do their part to send the right message out there. And yeah, that cowardness in me is just letting them know I'm not okay with it and then just leaving it. And that's not enough. Okay. Juan, I appreciate you help me out with that because it's something really, a lot of attention hasn't been given to it prior to the last few months and it needs to be. And thankfully too, because I have kids, you know, you're a parent as well. We have to set the right message for our children and future generations as well. So I appreciate you giving me some advice there. Thank you. Yeah, look, one of the conversations we have at home a lot, I am black. My husband and my stepdaughters are white, and we talk about what it means to be an ally. We talk about what it means to be a good part of your community, how an age appropriate way. How do you stand up for a friend who's being discriminated against or being hurt? I think these conversations are so important right now because we're sitting in the situation where we're in these three concentric crises between COVID, which has disproportionately impacted our communities of color, especially in the States, but also globally and economic downturn that has been devastating. And then the call outs around the systemic issues of racism and discrimination. I just think we can't we can't afford to be silent. And it's so important for all of us to have these conversations. It is important, again, if you haven't heard that Backbox Pinball podcast, which featured Juana and some other members of the pinball community, I highly recommend it. In fact, I'm going to link it on our pinball profile because I think you should definitely hear it. I know it's been shared several times before, but if you haven't heard it, you should. It's a great starting point, and we all love pinball. We all love the community. I think that's the thing I'm missing the most about the tournaments. I thought it was going to be the play itself. It's not. It's the people. It absolutely is. Look, I didn't know almost anybody when I moved to Baltimore in 2015. And the vast majority of the friends I've made are either through pinball or through Holy for Holies, where I play two days most weeks. And it's pretty shattering not being able to see those people. But I also realize that, you know, staying home means that we all get to see each other hopefully healthy again and safe again and that we're keeping our family safe and our community safe. So it's a big price to pay. But I look forward to us all being back together soon. I imagine pinball is a wonderful escape for you. It is for me, too. It's, you know, we work hard so we can play hard kind of thing. And you definitely work hard. And my goodness, what a year to be doing what you do, working for NPR and covering politics. Yeah, you know, there's not any dull moments in my job. Yeah, pinball is the best escape I could ask for. Just like I was saying, you know, being on the road, being able to find, get on pinball map and find hidden gems of places. I think one of my favorite trips, I was in Jackson, Mississippi, and I ended up finding pinball two blocks away from my hotel. And let me tell you, it was a really hard trip. And I have never been more happy in my life just to put my hands on a machine for a couple of hours. and nobody's bothering me because it was just a bunch of young folks partying and stuff. But it's just the best. It is the best, and it's because of people like yourself, Juana, and I appreciate what you do with the Women's Advisory Board. And also, please check out Juana on NPR. I mentioned you on the Backbox Pinball Podcast, and here you are on Pinball Profile. Forget that. Check out some amazing work that you do. And I'm sincere when I say that. I mean, I'm talking to a true professional here with what you do with NPR. Well, I appreciate that so much. I love what I do, and, you know, folks, support your local public radio stations. Darn right. Absolutely. Juana, thank you very much for this wonderful conversation, and I hope safety for you and all of your friends and family there, and hope to see you soon. Y'all, too. Thanks so much for having me. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Check us out on Facebook and Twitter. Email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teolis. Let it rain a lot on the radio, on the radio, on the radio.