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Episode 64: Bon Jovi vs Dungeon Crawler Carl vs Ender's Game | Which One?!

The Flipside Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 16m·analyzed·Jul 30, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.021

TL;DR

Jamie Burchell praises unreleased Bon Jovi pinball as Barrels' best shooter; 650 units pre-sold despite dad-rock fatigue.

Summary

Retro Ralph interviews Jamie Burchell about his experience playing the unreleased Bon Jovi pinball machine at Barrels of Fun headquarters. Jamie praises it as Barrels' best-shooting game to date, detailing its innovative mechanics including four flippers, lightning flippers, crowd-surf ball save, and a dynamic heart toy. The conversation explores the game's approachability despite Barrels' reputation for challenging shooters, addresses skepticism about the Bon Jovi theme in a saturated music-pin market, and reveals the machine has already sold approximately 650 units despite initial doubts from the community.

Key Claims

  • Bon Jovi has sold approximately 650 units already

    medium confidence · Retro Ralph citing a source within Barrels of Fun; he notes his source 'made David Madigan out' by revealing this

  • Bon Jovi is Barrels of Fun's best shooting game they've ever made

    high confidence · Jamie Burchell stated this directly after playing the game three times at the Barrels facility

  • The game features four flippers: two main flippers (lightning flippers), one upper right flipper, and one outlane flipper

    high confidence · Jamie and David Van Ness discussing design changes; David explained Karl D'Angelo, Jessica DiNardo, and Phil Grimaldi suggested adding a flipper for upper-left VIP area

  • Lightning flippers are one-eighth inch shorter than standard three-inch flippers, creating a wider gap

    high confidence · Retro Ralph and Jamie discussing flipper mechanics after playing

  • Bon Jovi initially was designed as a two-flipper game before feedback prompted four flippers

    high confidence · David Van Ness explained design evolution during Jamie's visit to the facility

  • Jamie placed a bet with Don Garrison that Bon Jovi will sell more units than Winchester Mystery House

    high confidence · Jamie mentioned texting with Don after playing the game and wagering a case of Diet Coke on this outcome

  • Barrels of Fun expanded its facility, with new areas Jamie hadn't seen before

    high confidence · Jamie mentioned David was 'weaving me in and out of things that I had never been through because they expanded'

  • Phil Grimaldi designed the rules for Bon Jovi

    high confidence · Jamie stated 'Phil Grimaldi on rules. Yes, I did' when clarifying who designed the rules

Notable Quotes

  • “This is your best shooter, no offense.”

    Jamie Burchell @ early conversation — Jamie's immediate reaction after playing Bon Jovi at the Barrels facility; establishes the game's mechanical quality relative to Barrels' portfolio

  • “I put up $250 million, which is not a bad first game. I went through three different songs. I got a multiball.”

    Jamie Burchell @ gameplay discussion — Details Jamie's first playthrough score and progression, demonstrating the game's approachability despite complexity

  • “It takes skill, right? Overdrive, sometimes you can lift that flipper up and it just doesn't. It's trickling down. It doesn't do it and you're screwed on the premium.”

    Jamie Burchell @ gameplay comparison — Compares Bon Jovi's crowd-surf ball save mechanic favorably to Foo Fighters' Overdrive feature, highlighting skill-based design

  • “I'm hearing they already sold 650 to... Shut up! I'm hearing it.”

    Retro Ralph @ sales discussion — Reveals substantial pre-orders for Bon Jovi despite market skepticism; indicates strong demand contrary to expectations

  • “They nailed the fact that you're going to a concert. Really? Okay. So you feel like, okay. I think they nailed it.”

    Jamie Burchell @ theme integration discussion — Confirms Barrels successfully created immersive concert atmosphere through audio and environmental design

  • “No pasanata. Move on. Shake it off.”

    Jamie Burchell @ early banter about David Van Ness leak — Jamie's joking response to Retro Ralph's accidental image leak before Bon Jovi launch; shows community grace regarding pre-launch disclosure

  • “I'm hearing they already sold 650 of them to... No way! I'm pretty confident of that number.”

    Retro Ralph @ sales revelation — Confidently cites inside source on Bon Jovi sales performance; foreshadows game's commercial success despite earlier community doubts

Entities

Retro RalphpersonJamie Burchellperson[name withheld pending review]personPhil GrimaldipersonBarrels of FuncompanyBon JovigameWinchester Mystery Housegame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Bon Jovi pinball released by Barrels of Fun with minimal advance warning; Retro Ralph expected release at Expo but machine already launched

    high · Ralph: 'I wasn't expecting them to release a game right now. I really thought they were going to wait until Expo.' Game is now in market with ~650 units sold.

  • $

    market_signal: Bon Jovi pinball experiencing strong pre-order/early sales (650 units) despite community skepticism about music pins and dad-rock fatigue

    medium · Ralph's inside source reports 650 units sold; contradicts earlier podcast speculation that game wouldn't reach 250-500 units

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Four-flipper design with lightning flippers (eighth-inch shorter) and outlane flipper; crowd-surf ball save mechanic offers skill-based alternative to previous designs

    high · Jamie confirmed flippers are shorter, creating wider gap; praised crowd-surf mechanic as superior to Foo Fighters' Overdrive; David explained design evolution from whitewood feedback

  • ?

    design_philosophy: David Van Ness incorporated feedback from experienced playtesters (Carl D'Angelo, Jessica DiNardo, Phil Grimaldi) during whitewood phase to evolve from two-flipper to four-flipper design

    high · David explained: 'Carl D'Angelo got to play it in the Whitewood, and Jessica DiNardo got to play it, and Phil Grimaldi. And the three of them said, you need a flipper here.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Community expressing fatigue with music/dad-rock themed pins; skepticism about Bon Jovi's commercial viability despite strong actual sales

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.051

0:00
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Flipside Podcast. I'm your host, Retro Ralph, and we are here for episode number 64. And I'm bringing in the big guns, a man that needs no introduction, a man who is the only person in the entire universe that has played both Bon Jovi, Dungeon Crawler Carl, and Ender's game. You know him, you love him, and his name is Jamie Burchill. But before we get to him, a quick word from our sponsor. If you're looking for a new pinball machine or a used pinball machine, go check out Flippin' Out Pinball. All the information will be in the description of this video or the audio podcast if you're listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And without further ado, here is my boy, the man, Jamie Burchill. Let's get this thing started. All right. As promised, my man Jamie is joining up with me for this episode of the Flipside Podcast. How's it going, Jamie? It's going good. This is round two. Yeah, people don't know this, but we recorded this yesterday, and I tried to get fancy and did some new stuff, and you're never supposed to do that. You were getting cute. You're never supposed to do that. No, stick with the old faithful, okay? This looks really good. Riverside has done very well for us. I don't know why you were getting cute. Because I don't record, not that the audience gives a rat's ass about this, but I record everything in OBS, and I don't like using Riverside because I feel like I lose a little bit of control, but it's fine. It looks good. It sounds good. So we're good. We're good to go. Hey, how are you? Been a long time. I'm good, man. How are you from yesterday? You're not annoyed with me at all for having you re-record this podcast? On a scale of 1 to 10, my annoyance with you is like a 2. That's not bad. Oh, okay. Oh, that's actually good. I'll take that. Yeah, that's not bad. That's okay. I felt really guilty asking you to do it again, though. Like, I really did. No, today was a tough day for me, Ralph. Why? Because I had a Crohn's flare today. Oh, man. Are you all right right now? Are you wanting to not do this? I'm okay. No, no, no, no. I'm okay. I'm all right. I have these super pills that I can take. And did you hear that bing? No. Okay, cool. Sorry, sidetracked. I take these super pills, but they're limited supply. I can't take them that often. But they make me really tired. Really tired. All right. Well, we're going to we're going to be we're going to keep I'm sorry to hear that, Jamie. We're going to keep it tight. We're going to I promise you. Let's go. It's going to be good. We're going to have fun today. So here's the thing that's crazy to me right now. I've never ever since I got into this hobby, there wasn't a time yet where I was like, holy crap, there's almost too much. Like I felt overwhelmed. This was too much, don't you think? I felt overwhelmed. And especially for me, because see, I feel like sometimes I envy your position because you have a place that's really close to your life. Your buddy John runs the show down there. Yeah, John Taylor at Eureka. Yeah, and you don't have to go far from your house, and they basically get almost everything new. So you kind of can experience everything right by your house. For me, I do have great arcades out here. I have Electric Bat, shout out to Kale and Rachel. I've got Tilt Games a little closer to my house. But I tend to be more the – I've always had this collector mentality kind of, so I always want to buy and experience the new thing at my house. But this week broke me because I was like, I don't know what to do. And we'll get into that. We'll get into that because there's – it's like P3 not only came out with one game. They came out with two games. So that's overwhelming. Even though it's the same play field, it is a totally different game. Yeah, and we'll get to that. And then Barrels of Fun kind of – I wasn't expecting them to release a game right now. I really thought they were going to wait until Expo. I thought Special K was full of shit, okay, to be honest. And I didn't believe the rumor. I didn't believe it. I did too only because when I think of – well, first of all, I'm kind of over the music pen. Like I really am. Like that was also kind of – There's a wave of people over the music pen. There is. There is, yeah. So many of my friends are over the dad rock bands. I don't want this anymore. And the thing is, you want to know why? And this is going to sound goofy, and I promise you we're not going to get too far off track because we're going to roll right into your experience going to barrels, and then we'll go to multimorphic. But the thing is with this stuff, it's different. And I know some people think this is a flawed argument. It's very different when you're playing a pinball machine and you keep hearing the same music tracks of songs you know over and over and over and over and over again versus the musical score of a game. I think they're very different. Don't you think?

“This layout looks really friggin' fun, and you've confirmed that it is actually really fun to play.”

Retro Ralph @ post-gameplay assessment — Summarizes validation that Bon Jovi's mechanics live up to visual design; explains his internal conflict about purchasing

Karl D'Angelo
person
Jessica DiNardoperson
Multimorphiccompany
P3product
Don Garrisonperson
Labyrinthgame
Dune Pinballgame
Foo Fightersgame
Evil Deadgame
John Taylorperson
Eurekavenue
Electric Batvenue
Tilt Gamezvenue
The Flipside Pinball Podcastorganization
Don's Pinball Podcastorganization
Flip N Out Pinballcompany

high · Ralph: 'There's a wave of people over the music pen'; Jamie: 'So many of my friends are over the dad rock bands. I don't want this anymore.'; Both doubted sales projections before playing

  • ?

    design_innovation: Bon Jovi features wider ramps and more approachable shot selections compared to Barrels' previous games (Labyrinth, Dune), making it more accessible to casual players

    high · Jamie: 'You could pick a song that's ramp heavy and pummel those ramps... this is more approachable'; Ralph noted Labyrinth was 'rough' and bricking-heavy but Dune restored faith

  • ?

    content_signal: Retro Ralph accidentally leaked Bon Jovi reveal photos two hours before official launch; caused tension with Barrels of Fun but ultimately generated positive media (Jamie's social media reel performed well)

    high · Ralph released playlist with unlisted video; David initially unhappy; Ralph notes: 'I I released the pictures by mistake... It was a couple hours'; Jamie's reel 'did very well' and likely sold units

  • ?

    operational_signal: Barrels of Fun conducted selective media outreach (featurette, Loser Kids podcast, Kerry Hardy) but gave exclusive first-play access to local community figures like Jamie instead of formal review channels

    high · Jamie noted he was not included in media day but given 30-min private play session; Ralph: 'I think he did a good move. And I just bring Jamie over for 30 minutes and let him play the game before everybody else.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Bon Jovi presents improved balance between casual playability and strategic depth; achievable early progress (Jamie scored $250M first game with three songs and multiball) without excessive bricking

    high · Jamie hit ramps consistently, accessed multiball on early games, utilized crowd-surf mechanic; contrasts with Labyrinth bricking issues but equals Dune's approachability

  • ?

    collector_signal: Retro Ralph experiencing decision paralysis due to game oversaturation (P3 two releases, Bon Jovi launch, Dungeon Crawler Carl, Ender's Game); uncertainty about limited edition purchasing despite positive gameplay experience

    high · Ralph: 'I felt overwhelmed... This week broke me because I was like, I don't know what to do'; He told Zach he doesn't want Bon Jovi but expresses ongoing internal conflict

  • ?

    industry_signal: Multiple manufacturers (Stern, Barrels, Multimorphic, others) launching games simultaneously, creating unprecedented product availability and market saturation

    high · Ralph: 'I've never ever since I got into this hobby, there wasn't a time yet where I was like, holy crap, there's almost too much... I felt overwhelmed'; P3 released two games, Barrels released Bon Jovi

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment on Bon Jovi shifted from skepticism/doubt (Ralph and Jamie initially dismissive of music pin + Bon Jovi theme) to enthusiasm after gameplay experience

    high · Jamie: 'I really liked it... this is your best shooter'; Ralph played it and became 'torn' about purchasing; Ralph contradicted earlier doubts about 250-500 unit sales

    • 5:06
    Yeah, I mean, Batman, the Batman music gets old after a while, but I don't care. I just like playing it. You know, I'm trying to do some egghead strats and shit. But I can see music pins getting Metallica remastered not included in that because they added so many songs. I think you're saving graces when you add a lot of tracks, and it does sound like this. Well, this reminds me of a roll right into it. So, Jamie, you kind of got a call from David. Well, actually, do you want to share the funny David story first before you get into it? Yeah, because it is really funny. Okay. And David's mad at me too. He shouldn't be mad at you. How can you be mad at Jamie? David, David, I'm talking directly to you, David. David, I'm talking directly to you like I'm looking right into your soul. I'm looking right into your soul, David. David, you've met Jamie. Jamie is a pleasant man. He's such a pleasant, he's lovely, as he said. He's a lovely guy. He has this cute dog, Bagel, who eats chipmunks, right? And he has this beautiful wife, Janine. They're just so sweet. I know. I don't even know how you could get mad at them. Because I do stupid things, and I leave things unlisted and playlists and people. Hey, look, Jamie, we all do stupid things. David. It was only two hours before launch, David. It wasn't that long. David, forgive and forget, buddy. It's fine. We love you. We love you guys down at Barrels. I mean, Jamie's like a Barrels cheerleader, practically. I mean, he loves it. I am. I really am. I love it. He loves it. So, David, we're sorry. Jamie doesn't know how to work YouTube, and I'm trying to treat teach him, but he doesn't listen to anything that I say. I'm a podcast that has a YouTube channel that's for some reason doing well. You've stressed this man out, David, actually. You've done this. You caused the Crohn's attack today, David. You did this. I had a Crohn's attack worried about David Van Essen. This Crohn's attack that Jamie had is directly related to you, David. So calm it down. Okay. Calm it down. Send me a text and say it's okay. Send, please, after you listen to this, your instructions are to send Jamie, I'm sorry, text message, I overreacted. Jamie, you don't know how to work YouTube. You can actually diss them at the same time and be like, I realize you don't know how to use YouTube and you don't listen around. Yeah, I don't even mind a couple of expletives in there. You know, I understand. You're an effing idiot. That's cool. Go hard, but at the end, say something nice. And I think Jamie would appreciate it. I would too. That'd be lovely. Yeah. That reel I made did very well on I Played Bon Jovi. So, I mean, that was some good press. I bet you it sold the machine.
    7:52
    All press is good press. All right. So here's my story. It's a very quick story. It's a good one, though. On the roundtable, I said I was going to join this Barrels Reserve thing because I want to support all these companies as much as I possibly can. So I send David a text, and the text says, I'm not remembering it word for word, but it was basically, I'm not a member of the Barrels Reserve program with a flex emoji. Okay. Now it wasn't that you threw the flex in. That's great. It wasn't supposed to be. I'm not a member. But anyway, so David's taking a long time to respond. I'm like, why is he taking a long time to respond? Then he responds with like, that's a strange flex. And I'm like, what? So then I get uncomfortable because Jamie and I both have anxiety. So now I feel like David's mad at me. I'm like, dude, I joined your program. So I'm not understanding what he's even talking about. So I read it back and I was like, oh, it says I'm not a member, like as if I'm dissing the program. So then I wrote back, oh, no, I'm so sorry. It was autocorrect. And then and then and then, of course, Jamie, I get in my own head and I don't know, he's busy. He's trying to launch this new game. But of course, I'm selfish. I'm thinking, like, why isn't he wrote back immediately saying, oh, funny. So, of course, I'm waiting with bated breath with him to be like, please acknowledge that I didn't say I'm I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I was actually trying to tell him, like, hey, yeah, I'm joining the club. So anyways, we're good now. And you were supposed to say, I am now a member. I am now a member, not a member. Not a member. Well, there's you're doing too many things at once, Ralph. Take it easy. And then I'll throw this in here. And he goes, that's something I'd expect Chris to do. And we all know who he's talking about when he says Chris. So, yeah, there you go. There you go. So now you're in the same vein. Congrats. Yeah, so now David hates me, too. So, David, if you want to send an apology text to me, that'd be great. Just for no reason. Just send it. Just send it. There's a wasp in here. Oh, man. Get your distant. It's because your wife didn't they get like wasps or something? I don't even know what they did. Didn't they like breed wasps or something? Oh, the bees. Bees. Yeah, right. We're going off track. My wife, FYI, she is a beekeeper part time. Yeah, that was the cutest reel. If you've never gone and seen Jamie's bee reel where I guess they left the frozen. Bees outside to defrost and become a complete disaster outside of his house.
    10:27
    Why did they forget they were there again? And then we can go right. They just got busy and they forgot that there were frozen bees in my front yard in April. And then there were bees everywhere in my front yard. And you got literally like attacked by bees, basically. Well, I couldn't go outside. Couldn't go out. I just never even went out. But there you go. All right, let's roll right in. And so you got invited to casual invite. It wasn't a media day. It was because you're building your network and you've got a lot of connections in the hobby now. And David was like, hey, why don't you come down to Barrels, the factory, and check out Bon Jovi. He didn't say Bon Jovi, right? No, he didn't tell me what it is. But I do think he feels bad for me because he did all this media with everybody else, right? Yeah. And he's like, oh, shit, Jamie. Well, who's everybody else? 20 minutes. Well, he did a featurette. Kerry Hardy did a featurette. Yeah. Yep. Loser Kids did a podcast. Yeah. And he left you out. You're right there in his back. I'm 20 minutes away and I get nothing. So actually, I think you should be mad. I think you should be mad at David for you being an afterthought. Really? I'm OK. I'm a podcaster and I don't like doing reveal podcasts. That's the Loser Kids lane. And I'm not going to do a feature. Could you imagine how I'd fuck that up? So I think he did a good move. And I just bring Jamie over for 30 minutes and let him play the game before everybody else. But, of course, I released the pictures by mistake, and so that could be my last time doing that. It's fine. It wasn't like it was a week before launch. It was a couple hours. No big deal. But what do you say, Jamie, when something bad happens in pinball? No pasanata. Move on. Shake it off. David, just shake it off, man. Just shake it off. Shake it off. All right. So tell me. He brings me in – I've been to Barrows a bunch of times, and he was weaving me in and out of things that I had never been through because they expanded. And we go into this room, and there it is, prime display Bon Jovi. So no buildup. He just walks you right in and says, here it is. He just walked in, and he goes, here, I want to show you something. Okay. And it wasn't anticlimactic at all because it was really pretty. I went right to the play field. And I don't know this crap that's happening today on the art. Everyone's shitting on Johnny Crap's art. I didn't take that. I thought it was pretty cool, right? Okay. But I don't even look at the side art and these sorts of things because I play in locations. Yeah, see, this is where we differ a little bit. Okay? So I'm not a collector like Ralph, so I don't care. Just show me the play field. Look what's going on. So I went right to the play field, and I got to play it three times, two, one with David, And one by my two by myself. Can I ask? Because David designed it, right? Yeah. David designed it. Phil Grimaldi on rules. Yes, I did. Oh, yes, I did. Yes, I did. You beat the designer at his own game. He was explaining it to me. Okay. So he's totally distracted. Fair enough. When we were playing it. Making excuses. Okay.
    13:34
    But I really liked it. My first impression, best shooting barrels of fun game they've ever made. Okay. I mean, that's a big claim. That's a bold claim to say best. I trained, and I turned to him, and I go, this is your best shooter, no offense. Right?
    13:51
    Why do you say no offense, though? Because, well, the other games were just sitting there, and he was there. And you know how we get nervous when you're sitting there. Yeah, we do. You were sweating a little bit, right? I was sweating. But I put up $250 million, which is not a bad first game. Hell no. I went through three different songs. I got a multiball. I was doing the things. And in the ball two, I got to use the surf, what is it called? The crowd surf, ball save thing or whatever it's called. Which is wicked cool when you do it. It's a definite moment.
    14:28
    Yeah, and you have to build up to that, right? You have to hype the crowd or something. Don't ask me how to build up. I don't remember. He just said, you build up your crowd. I was like, cool. So then I just remembered if I drain on the left out lane, I got my crowd. So he was telling you that so you knew because he knows that's kind of a cool feature. So he was like, hey, man, you built this up. You should try it. And in the outlanes and inlanes, you have to move and you have to spell Bon Jovi love.
    14:57
    Okay. And it does something. I don't remember. Can I ask you, because I was watching the videos, that feature does look cool. It made me think of the Overdrive thing on Foo Fighters. But immediately when I saw it, and I keep on, I haven't played it, you have. So you'll be able to tell me what I felt like that's cooler than overdrive. It is cooler than overdrive. It is. It is really cool. Okay. Because it's up to you. It takes skill, right? Overdrive, sometimes you can lift that flipper up and it just doesn't. It's trickling down. It doesn't do it and you're screwed on the premium and I'll leave. But here, it takes skill. It takes that shot. Yeah. And it's interesting because he went through the play field with me, and it was supposed to be just a two-flipper game. Oh, initially it was supposed to be a two-flipper game. Initially, two-flipper. And what he said was Carl D'Angelo got to play it in the Whitewood, and Jessica DiNardo got to play it, and Phil Grimaldi. And the three of them said, you need a flipper here so that you can go into the concert VIP crap that's to the upper left. And he said, OK, well, if I'm going to add another flipper, I have this idea for a flipper in the outlane. And he made it happen. So it's a four flipper game. And then he changed the two main flippers to lightning flippers to speed up the game even more.
    16:20
    Now, we you and I on the prior recording. Mm hmm. Said some stupid shit. So I'm glad it's gone. No, it's a terrible podcast, ladies and gentlemen. And I said, I go, that's terrible. No, it wasn't. It wasn't terrible. It was bad. It wasn't. But here's the thing. So and I'm going to bring it up. So it's going to be in the podcast anyway. And keep in mind, I also didn't know. So I'm like, hey, Jamie, what like makes a lightning flipper unique other than it has like a lightning bolt on it? And he's and he just you didn't say anything. So I didn't know this either. A lightning flipper is slightly shorter than a standard flipper. Yeah. So it's an eighth of an inch shorter than a standard three-inch flipper, which does create a wider gap. So I'm curious. There's no pin in the middle of the flippers, right? Yeah, it's center post. Oh, there is. Okay, there is a center post. Okay, so did you feel at any time that, oh, my gosh, this gap is wider and this is going to be a challenge or anything like that? Because an eighth of an inch isn't that much, really. No, you know, the only thing I get nervous is the guy that designed the damn thing is standing over your shoulder. And you're trying to put up a good ball. But I was hitting the ramps, Ralph. I was flowing. I know. You said that immediately when you were able to talk to me because you didn't share it before you were supposed to because Jamie listens to what David says. But immediately, of course, when the embargo was lifted, I asked him. And, David, this is a test. We're talking a lot to you directly, David.
    17:53
    Jamie said to me exactly what he said here. He goes, this is the best shooting barrels of fun game. And, you know, as a prior Brickfest owner of a Labyrinth, I was happy to hear that because I felt like Labyrinth, I was just bricking. And then I had to do it like Labyrinth. Labyrinth was rough to me, for me. Now, Dune restored my faith in barrels because even though Dune is a complex shooter, kind of, like precision is important, I didn't feel the same way I did about Labyrinth. But I will say there is a little bit of a theme of barrels games being a bit more challenging than I'd say like a modern most modern pinball machines. I think I think their games are very challenging. I think so, too. Yeah, I do. I think that's fair. I mean, they're they're family friendly, but. You know, a little harder, but you'd say this is more approachable because the shots you see, you said they were wider ramps and you can go ramp. You could pick a song that's ramp heavy and pummel those ramps. I was having a tough time hitting the flying heart in the middle. And that mech is cool. I never got it to raise. I never got it to move. I never got ladies and gentlemen I only had three games okay so take it easy I didn get everything I didn progress to the wizard mode I 4 in the world
    19:17
    Now, I'm not going to have the audio playing on this. I just felt like we should have some visuals maybe on this. Okay. I don't want to pay too much attention to it. But the thing I did notice, though, that heart, when it does show it, it does a lot of other stuff. Like you can shoot under it. You can shoot through it. It can lock the ball and then deliver it to the wire form behind it, which is elevated. I thought that was actually really cool, but you didn't get to experience that. You didn't even get to see David do it?
    19:49
    You know, we struggled on game two. I'm not going to lie to you. Okay. We struggled a bit on game two. Tell me a little bit about this thing, though. Just real quick. Which one? Because this seems kind of cool, this little VIP backspace. Yeah, so that's where you can really hit it with the side flipper, the upper right flipper. Okay. It looks cool. I think that's neat. And there's a magnet there if you could see that by the stone. Yeah, so I was able to do that a few times. That was pretty cool. Okay, that looks cool. And then there's a ramp there to the left of it, to the right of it. Oh, here's the ramp. See that ramp to the right? How do you get to that? How do you shoot that? You can hit that from the left flipper, the lower left flipper. Okay. Very easily, actually. It's not that bad. Okay, and then, all right, there's the magnet working. You see that, right? And that is a three-ball lock there. Yeah, I only locked two. Okay, so there's probably some way to enable that lock, right? Yeah. Or is it? Okay, but we don't know that yet. I don't remember. Okay, all right, and I didn't watch the Carl D'Angelo stream. This is kind of cool, even though I don't really, you know, Bon Jovi. Yeah, but, you know, throw Jersey up there. There you go. I lived in Jersey for a little bit. Yeah, but you said for like five minutes or something, right? So skipping a jump.
    21:03
    All right. So there's the crowd surf thing. Yeah, dude, that's wicked cool. This is cool. Now, we had talked on a prior podcast. I asked you, hey, man, I don't know. I haven't really been to many Bon Jovi concerts, but Bon Jovi doesn't scream out to me that people would be crowd surfing during a Bon Jovi show. But and AI said that people just straight don't. Now, I don't know if that's true. I doesn't know it's it's AI gets confused a lot. So I don't know whether that's true. But historically speaking, I don't know of a lot of like I don't think crowd surfing was big in the 80s when Bon Jovi was big. And then, you know, grunge kind of made crowd surfing a little more prevalent. And today, if Bon Jovi were to crowd, someone like Bon Jovi were to crowd surf, you would hit a lot of geriatric people and hurt them. Yeah, the bones would be broken. So I think it's probably not a good move to do that. Not a good move today. Yeah, I would 100% agree.
    22:07
    Yeah, I mean, the young kids might be able to do it. But I remember crowd surfing at like a Pearl Jam concert. Yeah, sure. Even flow makes you want to crowd surf. Shot to the heart, not so much. Yeah, not really. No, not a crowd surf moment. I never wanted to crowd surf during a Bon Jovi conference. Real quick, I want to show you. I never know Bon Jovi. Did you ever get in this steel horse ball lock, too? This looks kind of cool. I like this thing. Yes. I locked three and started the steel horse multiball.
    22:37
    Okay, that's the one you did. See, I think this is cool because it dumps the balls. It was a cool moment, and then all three went right down the middle.
    22:47
    Yeah. Oh, they did? Did they really? Yeah, they did. They did a triple drain? It was great. You didn't tell me that. Okay, so it was great. I'm sure there was a ball save on, though, right? No, totally ball save, and we got going. We got going. Okay.
    23:00
    But totally down the middle. I choked that because I was looking at David like, this is a moment, right? This is pretty cool. And then he's like, oh, you embarrassed me, Jamie. You drained L3 ball. Yeah, nice job. Did this heart thing. Yeah, you see how it gets to go on up and all this shit? I didn't get to do any of that. I'm intrigued by this heart thing, though. Big time. This thing is cool. Yeah. The other thing, too, by the way. And then you change your song. See how he's changing his song here? Yeah, yeah. When do you get a chance to do that? After you complete a song, I think, and then definitely in the beginning you get to choose your song. There's this other thing I noticed. I did watch a little bit of it. I said I didn't watch it. I did watch a second of the Carl D'Angelo thing. It sounds like when you're in the middle of a mode or a song, you can also decide to stay playing that same song, or you can decide to move off of it. I guess that's a decision you can make. You can say rock on or move on, I think is what it says, which is kind of cool. So if you're not getting super hyped for Born to Be My Baby, you can switch it up, I guess, if you want. Yeah, I don't know. This is cool, though, dude. This is cool. I like this. Yeah, it's a cool moment, right? That's neat. Yeah, that's neat. You know what has me torn about this game? Like, completely torn. We're going to get this video out of the way here. Hold on. All right, buddy. The thing that's got me torn about this game is that it's Bon Jovi. You're frozen, by the way. It's fine. Remember, it's Riverside. Because you were frozen, too. It'll fix it all in the post. But am I still frozen? Yeah. Just ignore that. It'll be fine. It'll be fine.
    24:31
    The thing that I'm so torn, and this is why I said I'm struggling right now because of, number one, all these games. This layout looks really friggin' fun, and you've confirmed that it is actually really fun to play. So I'm a little torn. What are you torn on? I'm torn because like part of me kind of wants to get this and I don't. And Zach even texted me because Zach said he knows I buy everything. So he's like, do you want it? And I told him no.
    25:02
    You did? I told him no, but I also don't think it's going to sell out. It's not going to be a Winchester. I'm hearing they already sold 650 to... Shut up! I'm hearing it. Really? No way. I heard 650 from my source within barrels. Now, you just made David Madigan out. Or maybe not. That's okay. That's all right. Really? Sold 650 of them to... No way!
    25:31
    I'm pretty confident of that number. Do you remember how much... And this year you're going to get in trouble for it. Do you remember how much shit we were talking about the fact that we thought this wouldn't sell when we heard the rumor? When we heard the rumor, we were like, it's not going to sell 500. I didn't even say it would sell 250. We never said this on a podcast. No. Well, this is just our nightly talks, but we doubted the number that they would sell. Yeah. But after I played it and saw it, I was texting with Don because Don from Don's Pinball Podcast, ladies and gentlemen, little Don Garrison's been shitting on this machine. And I just felt compelled to say, hey, dude, you got to shoot it. Yeah. Before you say all these things. You know, I love Don, but Don's trying to be a little edgy, Don. Don, you're not edgy, Don. Just be like Don. Just be you, man. Just be Don. Just be you. Don't be edgy, Don. Just be Don. Don, we love you and your sound effects and your sound effects and all that great stuff that you do. You know?
    26:40
    Hello! That's what we like. Anyway. I don't know. Don's got a little edge going on right now. I don't know where that's coming from. I go, hey, I'll bet you a case of Diet Coke that they sell over the number of Winchester. Oh, you placed a bet with Don. Yeah. I should have done a 24-pack. Wow. You know what, man? I mean, I'm very happy for them. I just didn't think I didn't have a lot of faith that Bon Jovi was good. Look, I'm not an idiot. I know that people like Bon Jovi. I know Bon Jovi historically has a lot of fans, you know, so I'm not. They sold 100 million records. Zero Hall of Fame. But I thought with the dad rock fatigue that the community is has and everything else, I really didn't see it as doing like I just thought, no, you guys messed up. This isn't a Beryl's theme because Beryl's was always doing like funky stuff. It was like, all right, Labyrinth, super funky, different, you know, really kind of cult classic movie that I still don't think like there are people that I say, do you know Labyrinth? Because I used to, you know, I don't know, sometimes I'll ask people because before it came, became a pinball machine. It was one of those movies I watched a lot as a kid. You did, huh? I did. I watched.
    27:52
    She whines and complains in that movie, though, man. And I'm kind of glad people complain about her not being – she's like – like she's complaining the whole movie. It's super annoying.
    28:03
    But, yeah, I just didn't think this – like they went from funky labyrinth, you know, kind of edge case cult classic to Dune, which I was like – I like the old Dune movies even though they're like 700 hours long. So I didn't really watch the new one, so I wasn't really – but then when I saw what they did with like the audio package and the lighting and all that and involving Jeff from Dirty Pool, They really made it a cinematic thing. So if there's one thing that barrels like nails, and I wouldn't say they nailed it in Labyrinth, but they nailed the environment like I'm playing something that makes me feel like I'm getting sucked into it with Winchester and Dude. A hundred percent. Like nailed it.
    28:39
    And audio is so important. They nailed the fact that you're going to a concert. Really? Okay. So you feel like, okay. I think they nailed it. You like this game. I do. I do like this game. If I was a collector, this would be something I would look at. And I'm going to tell David something that he doesn't even know that you have said on various occasions. Okay.
    29:01
    And I already forgot what it was. Good move. That's how you get to be number one, ladies and gentlemen. Something about barrels. You say it a lot.
    29:15
    Shoot, I can't remember now. All right, well, if it comes to me, I'll bring it up. But yeah, I don't know if they if they nailed it, they nailed it. And I think that's awesome. And here's the thing. I will say there have been times in this hobby where there's been a theme that pops up that I say I'm not interested in. And then I play the game and I really like the game. And one of those games would be Evil Dead. I have no. Yeah, nobody has any interest in Evil Dead. I mean, though, there are people, whatever. Are you a horror movie guy? No, I don't like horror. See, I don't either. I don't want to be scared because then I'm going to go to bed scared and anything with the devil.
    29:59
    Me too. I can't do it with the Catholic ass in me and The Exorcist is still the scariest movie I've ever seen in my entire life. Dude, I'm not going to lie. When there's a mode in Evil Dead, because sometimes I'll go into the garage and I'll just put on one game. It's dark in the garage with just one. So I am not even kidding. I don't even I don't even feel bad admitting this. There's been times where I've gone into the garage, played Evil Dead, got so freaking freaked out. And then when I get in the house, I'm like, I'm going through the house like like Tom Cruise Mission Impossible. Like I'm going around corners, like checking, like I'm clearing the house like I'm like a CIA agent or something. It's not going to happen with Bon Jovi. It's not going to happen with Bon Jovi. He's just going to be singing. I don't like scary. No, I don't like scary either. But I like Evil Dead. I like that game. Okay. So you know what I'm saying though, right? Because I have no interest in Evil Dead.
    30:57
    But yet we like playing it. And it's my favorite spooky game. I think that's in the same realm, Ralph. Music pins may be done, but this is a great music pin. This is their first real tournament game too. I didn't mention that yesterday. This is the first game where I feel that it could go into a tournament tomorrow and play perfectly. Okay. You know, not like Guns N' Roses, which is not a tournament game. It is a, God bless Guns N' Roses, but it's just not a tournament game. It's a game that you want to go deep in the code and have at home. Whereas this is, you could just play a couple of songs and have a lot of fun. So you know our buddy Kale is a little rough on barrels of fun for quality control issues. Now he's been known to say a few things. Now I think sometimes Kale – It's not like they're not warranted though. No, no, no, they are. They're coming to his place and they're not working. So that's no bueno. They run a business. Now I think – but on the flip side of it, I think that Kale also knows that they're young – he says this a lot. They're a young company. They're still trying to figure this stuff out. I mean think about Spooky. People don't really talk about Spooky's quality issues from the past because now they're doing well. But there was a period of time where Spooky was rough. Like I have a buddy that has a Rick and Morty on location. You've experienced it. Rick and Morty was almost down all the time. It was always problems with Rick and Morty. And I think they might have the only Rick and Morty I know of in Arizona on location still, I believe, is the Tilt Games. And it's going. You know, it's going. But any of the newer spooky titles like Evil Dead or Beetlejuice, they seem to be pretty good. So Barrels is figuring it out. But I will say Barrels' games from Dune forward have been really good. Like the layouts are fun. They're fun to play. So they're on the up and up. And I hope they do so. I hope they have sold as many of these that you say. Yeah, I feel pretty damn confident in that number. And if that's the case, way to go. So should I get this?
    33:16
    Yeah, I think you're going to like it. I really do. Pardon me, this is one I think you would really like. My sister would lose her shit. If she came into my garage and she saw Bon Jovi pinball machine, she would lose her shit. Because my sister is six years older than me, so she loves Bon Jovi. Get it for your sister.
    33:37
    Get 651. I don't think my sister rocks out to Bon Jovi nowadays, but I do think that it would be very nostalgic. My sister would be the target demographic. She would flip out on this. So get it, and maybe she'll do her hair up real big and go 80s style. Get this for her. Come on. Maybe. Maybe. I think the other thing I wanted to mention, because we kind of rolled into this last time, I think we're good on barrels. I think you say it's good. You enjoyed yourself. It looks cool to me. I think you got to go play it. I still believe like Orbital Albert, play before you pay, but there is a lot of FOMO. It probably might sell out if they're already at $6.50 after one day. You know, if they do in this market right now, because I don't think, you know, the economy's tough. People are being a little bit, you know, guarded with their money. And right now there's so many games and there's going to be more games. Like we're only in the middle of the year and we've already got a slew of games and more coming. So a lot more coming. It is challenging to launch a game right now. And if they really did sell that many, then props to them. That's awesome. That's good. I hope it's true. And, you know, God bless them. They didn't use the back screen. People are giving them some shit for it. They didn't use the back screen, which has been prevalent in the other three machines. But why? I don't think you needed it. But also, like, why does it mean that like I don't ever look at I don't ever look at a brand doing a pinball machine and just assume that every game is going to have all the same features. So, like, I didn't even notice it was missing because I didn't. What would they have put on it? I don't know. They have an LCD footage, but they have it on the LCD. The crowd moving and shit. That could be kind of cool. That could have been kind of cool. Yeah, but all right, whatever. It's not there. I just went, okay, I'm going to flip it. I'm going to have some fun, and I did. But not that we're going to do a feature breakdown, but they do pack a lot into their games. Like, they give you a shaker. He spent a considerable amount of money on this release, I guess, retooling the audio. So, like, it's got a subwoofer enclosure. It's got a better amplifier, has better speakers. And I like that kind of stuff because even though barrels comes at a premium cost, if it comes at a premium cost but I'm getting premium things. Yeah, you're getting all the things. Then I'm – if I don't – because that means I don't have to upgrade it. I don't have to put powder coating on it. I don't have to put Invisiglass on it. I don't have to install a shaker motor. I don't have to put a better audio system. So, like, I don't know. I'm good. I'm good with that. Well, call Zach back.
    36:15
    No. Do you know, can I tell you something I haven't said to anybody and you don't even know this. Okay. I don't know if I feel like this was, I feel like you're going to tell me that I made a mistake. I haven't, I could still back out. Give it to me. Give it to all of us. So I did get a game. Now, it's not there yet, so I could easily give it up and I'm sure he could sell it. I'll just, I'll let you guess. I got a game in this last slew of games that came out that I never told anybody I got. And I still haven't like paid for it yet, but it's allocated to me if I want it.
    36:54
    Okay. You don't know what it is? Well, you already have a Sonic. You already have a Pokemon. You already have a Transformers. I don't even think you're going to think of this game, but I'll give you a second. You have three Musketeers from Hexa? No. I like the guys. All right. I mean, we like them. I mean, they're nice. I really love the people over at Hexa. How about Monge League Hockey from Ramps? No. Okay.
    37:18
    See, it's not even in your thoughts. Resident Evil? No. You spent $20,000? I'm going to fly over there and smack you right now. No, no.
    37:28
    You're not going to guess it. I can't think of it. I'm not going to get it. Go ahead. Totan. The remake. I don't know how to react to that. Silence is deafening.
    37:42
    No, I honestly don't know how to react to that. I don't know how to react. I like American Pinball. I like all the people at American Pinball. But that doesn't make sense.
    37:55
    You're thinking of Circus Voltaire. Oh, Circus Voltaire. Who built Totan? Oh, CCC. No, Totan is Pedretti Gaming, yeah. Pedretti.
    38:08
    All right. So, okay, Jamie, you have control of my money right now, and you're going to make this decision. Totan or Bon Jovi? Bon Jovi. So should I tell Zach hey scrap the Totan we going Jovi Absolutely Really Okay Totan you can play Totan anywhere I know, I know. Well. Not really, but. But you know what it is? It's not that fun. I've played Totan a hundred times at the old joint. I'm telling you. It's pretty, though, but yeah, no, you're right. It does. Okay, it's pretty. Are you one of those art collectors now? No, no. So what are we doing? You're playing pinball. Okay. This is a mistake. All right, chat. Sorry, Pajretti. Comments, you guys tell me. Totan or – well, we have two other games to talk about, so maybe we'll redistribute the – because I only have this one spot, so we've got to do something with it. I've rethought my ideas on the P3 for you, so. Okay, well, we're going to get to that. Okay, let's go. All right, so now we'll weave into Multimorphic. But before we do, I want to give you my – because you've been telling me for a long time, Ralph, you're a tech guy. You'll like Multimorphic. You've got to give it a chance. And here's my only beef with Multimorphic is that and we said it on the roundtable. There are people that are in love with Multimorphic, the people that there's like hardcore fans and they will debate you all day long about why it's a it is real pinball. It's just different. You have to get used to it. But I think the thing with pinball is you don't have a lot of time to get a first impression and a lot. And my first impressions of it every time I play it, because I haven't had a chance to play like 20 games on it. It's always like here's five games and then I'm off because we're at a show or something. And I always leave thinking, I just can't get used to these flippers. I just can't. But if I'm being fair, I don't think I've given it that time because all of them say, oh, no, no, you need more time.
    40:10
    So I don't know. It's not a glowing endorsement on a product when you say I need more time on it. But maybe the reason why is because it's so different. Because they're different. It's different. JJP shoots different than at Stern. Yeah. Okay. I'm sure your Totan is going to shoot a lot different than anything else. So you have I mean, it's just different and it takes a few more plays. It really does to get used to it. Did you like it when you first played it?
    40:37
    No, it took it took some time. It took time. It took time. Now, mind you, we got an early, early one, and Heist was all jacked, and the fly swatter didn't work on Weird Al, and we were about to give it back. But Stephen Silver and all the folks at Multimorphic really worked hard with our techs and made it sing. And really the Barrels guys, which I didn't even know they worked for Barrels at the time, but they would come over and they were invested in that. But the Crane and Heist is one of their best games they've ever made. Okay. Right? It really is. It's so fun. And Dungeon Door Defender, of course, is, you know, I'm addicted to what Michael Ocean did on that. Yeah. It's really super fun. But this was better than Portal. I liked Portal, but I didn't love Portal.
    41:37
    Dungeon Crawler Carl and Ender's Game are definitely better than Portal. Really? In my opinion. Okay. Now, I didn't care for Portal because I didn't get to play the non-extension kit one, but I felt like what they did with it, it was a little awkward. You slowed it down? Yeah, it was a little awkward. And sometimes the ball would come to the back of the ramp, bounce around, and you don't know where the hell that's going. Yeah, well, they said people complaining that there's nothing in the lower third. Here, here you go. So, and, you know, maybe you got to really like Portal because the damn ball goes from so many different places. It does some cool stuff. It does some great stuff. But I just like the feel of Dungeon Crawler Call and Ender's Game more than Portal. But that's okay. Whatever. Okay, but let's rewind a little bit because you had a lot of anxiety going into this because this was an invite. This was an invite. Here's another thing I screwed up. I told the roundtable there was a media event. It wasn't a media event. It was a VIP event. There's a big difference than Don from Don's Pinball podcast. Our friend again, got upset and called Jerry and said, I heard you have an immediate event. I want to be there again. Don doing Don things. And we love Don. We love Don. I love him. But, you know, don't call Jerry and ask to be invited to his event. And the reason I was invited is because they liked what I did with Portal, the vlog style video of, hey, get the crowd reactions and that sort of thing. So I did, Jerry, I'm sorry, tell Ralph that I was going to the VIP event. I said, look, I'm going to this VIP event. They're going to announce a game. You didn't tell me what game, but you didn't know what game anyway. Because I didn't know what game it was. Yeah. I had no idea. The internet was – we kind of knew that Dungeon Crawler Carl, but at that time we thought barrels could have Dungeon Crawler Carl and all that. So I was like, what do I do? And I just got so damn nervous, you know? And I got irritated a little too because I had flown back from Cape Cod a day early to go to the VIP event. I was tired. I got up at 6 a.m. to drive to Round Rock and I had to get a hotel. You were so cranky. You were like, I don't want to go. You told me you were going to pull out. Now, see, I feel like I did encourage you to press on. No, no, you weren't saying you were going to pull out. I was going to bail. I know, but you were only going to bail, and I get it because I know you well enough now. You were just nervous at this idea that, and I understand this pressure. The pressure was like you were being invited with the expectation that you were filming this event, and that is a lot of pressure. It's too much pressure for me and I won't do that again. The only thing I'm going to do is the crowd reactions and the vlog style. I'll do that because I'm comfortable with that. Again, I'm not a YouTuber. I'm a podcaster. May I talk to Jerry for a minute directly? Oh, this is fantastic. Jerry, here you go. Jerry, look.
    44:45
    My buddy, Jamie, he has a lot of anxiety and stress sometimes. He is an exceptional podcaster. But the video thing – and by the way, I think you did a good job on the vlog style video. Yeah, because Mason saved the day. Hey, whatever. He still – he took it and polished it up, made it nice. But – so, Jamie, you could have spoke up, I feel like this. But, Jerry, there's a lot of value in having Jamie come to the event. But I think maybe just like we'll take the pressure off for the next one. You definitely should invite Jamie to the next one. But just be okay with Jamie absorbing the experience and then sharing that experience on a podcast like he's doing now, non-video, because that's a lot of pressure for my friend. Yeah, I would prefer that. Or I can take some shots and I can come back and sit on the back porch and then just interject the shots.
    45:39
    That would be great. Wouldn't that be fun? Yeah. See, that's what we're going to do for next time. Jerry. I'd like that. We're good. Jerry, that's what we're doing. We're doing it. Thank you. Next game, we're doing it. So they did it real quick. Let me take you through this because we don't have much time. Yeah, take me through it. And I'm going to put the Dungeon Crawler Carl up on here so people can see it as you're talking. Okay. So we walk into the room. There's a big black curtain on Dungeon Crawler Carl, and he unveils it. And the first thing you see is the sculpts. It's really – you see the side art. The sculpts look really cool. But look at that sculpt, dude. I mean, these do look awesome. And this was Stumbler that did these, right? Now, we heard the rumor that Stumbler was going to do sculpts for them, but we didn't know it would be in this game, right, in their newest launch. And there's the safe room to the right. It's coming up here. There it is to the left there. Is this it? The thing with the safe room? Oh, safe room in the middle over here. Okay, got it. Target that drops down, and then you can go up through the VUK.
    46:44
    Wicked cool. The safe room is very important in Dungeon Crawler Carl if you've read any of the books. So they just did a really good job. Now, what they did is they put all these sculpts, and when you see Ender's game later, it looks bare. Yeah. But it's not bare. Because they didn't cover the wire forms with ramps. With the sculpts. Yeah. That's right. But it is the same exact layout. It just looks so different because all the sculpts are gone, right? Totally. Okay. And this code is totally different. Like one skill shot. And one of the cool things that Jerry did is when he announced this, when he set his teams, and they knew that there was an Enders game and they knew that there was Dungeon Crawler Carl, but like Wesley was not talking to Carl McAlpine on the Enders Day code. So they have different skill shots. They have – I got to witness Wesley Johnson, who's a good friend of mine and the coder for Dungeon Crawler Carl, play Ender's game and go, wow, Colin, I can't believe you did that on this. I can't believe you used the mech this way. Really cool. So this magic missile, that's a tough shot right at the middle there, right there, that shot.
    48:01
    I don't see it. If he hits that to the upper left. Is that the spinner? The spinner. It's not a spinner, really. To the right of that spinner is a reject shot that comes right on back. Scary. Oh, okay. It's scary, but you use that in your boss battles. Okay, he just hit it. Okay, he just hit it, I think. But every time I hit it, it went right down the middle. Okay. I'm just telling you that. Also, during a boss battle, these plexi plates that come up in like Weird Al and they- That's the stuff in the back. It's the white stuff. It's the white plastic that comes all the way up. So it's like the transition between the LCD and the back plate. Those pop up and they fuck with you, which is kind of cool. And they each integrated that differently. Dungeon Crawler did it differently than the code team on Ender's Game. Okay. And so all the art was done by the artist and the playfield art was done by Brad Albright. For Ender's Game. And then Brad Albright did completely Ender's Game. So he was a busy dude over the last two years. Now, what can you tell me about, and I know it's implemented differently in each game, and I'll bring up the video for Ender's Game too. Like this disc thing looks really crazy. Does it, is it cool? Is it distracting? Does it, are you distracting? Cause the plexiglass, you can see through it. And the way they designed the plexiglass, like right here, if you stop it, But you can see that you can see the choose wisely. You can see through it. It's really smart. And it diverts. The top will divert which in lane it comes to. The bottom has seven stand-up targets. It's got the reject shot. It's got a spinner. And it can change the ball paths and do funky stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, if there was still, this would be a game that could win a Twippy for best mech. I mean, it's really cool. Yeah, I mean, it looks like, it looks cool. So like, even what it did right there, that ball came back, I saw one time it kind of went around that thing and fed the right flipper, then another time it fed the left flipper. So it can divert the ball to different flippers too. Absolutely. Pretty cool. I mean, it looks really neat. My initial thought was, holy shit, like, that looks crazy because, like, you know, we all look for things that are unique in these games and that looks crazy to me. I mean, it's definitely like a risk, right, to build something that... You didn't play that well when you played this game. Oh, I know I didn't play that well. Not feel. I know I didn't play that well. I brick-fested the shit out of it. So, I mean, they're asking a lot for it, but I do feel like, you know. Well, the P3 with the game, if you already have a P3, 5250 is not a bad deal, right? No, it's sub of a, shy of a Stern Pro. Stern Pro, yeah. And it's another game you can add to your existing platform. This would be the one that I would get because I just read the audio book. If I had a P3, I'd get Dungeon Crawler Carl because the call-outs from Jeff Hayes, who does the audio book, are ridiculous.
    51:30
    They nailed it. They nailed that. If you're a fan of Dungeon Crawler Carl, you're a fan of P3, this is a no-brainer for you. Okay, I'm going to throw up Ender's Game now. So I want them to see what you're talking about once they show the playfield shot because I think a lot of people have looked at this. There's a couple of sculpts there, and it's the same machine. Okay. Yeah, there's like a couple of sculpts, but for the most part, you see all the wire forms. Yes. This game looks really cool, though, too. So you see the drop target in the middle? Yeah. There's a big Vuck that comes up, and that was messed up when I was playing it, but Jerry goes, of course it's messed up when you're playing it. So does that Vuck shoot it up, this wire form that's above it? Yeah. Okay, that's kind of cool. And then to the right, that red, this red, it pops up, same as in Dungeon Crawler Carl, but it's just you have to hit those three stand-ups, it pops up, goes in there, magnet, magnet fucks with it, comes up down. Does it close? Does it close the down on top? Yeah, it opens and closes.
    52:33
    I don't know if it closed on top of a ball. Kyle McAlpine was trying to coach me through it, but I was choking. But to see the stop there, the ball can stop right there and tell you your agility level and all that stuff. But I'm not familiar with the game and the book.
    52:55
    Yeah, I'm not either. I'm not familiar with either one of them, really. You know, I only started listening to DCC because I heard somebody had it and everyone just won't shut up about the damn book. Like, how do you know someone's read Dungeon Crawler Carl? They won't shut the F up about it. So I was like, all right, I'll go.
    53:16
    And I enjoyed Dungeon Crawler Carl more because I was familiar with the IP. But the call-outs on this from our boy Glenn Wechter, see, it does shut in. Look at it. Oh, that's kind of cool, actually. Let me see. I just never got there.
    53:32
    Oh, it shuts on. Oh, and there's some, like, the magnets kind of throwing it around on these targets. You're throwing it around, getting your points. That's kind of cool. It's a cool feature. Yeah. I wonder, that must not be magnets. There must be like a little slingshot in there or something. You think it's the magnet? I think it's the magnet. I don't see the slingshot, but if it's the magnets, that's kind of cool. It looks like it's going kind of crazy for not being a... Yeah, it's going bananas. Okay. And then here it comes out right down the middle for Jamie, but everybody else could feed. And then there's targets on this thing, too. Targets are seven of them, and good luck. That's hard. Well, they're right there next to the – they're right there. Really far down there. Are those on Dungeon Crawler Carl 2, or are they different? Are they configured differently? No, same thing, but used differently.
    54:22
    Okay, because I didn't really see – I guess I didn't notice it when we were looking at Dungeon Crawler Carl. Because there's sculps on it. There's sculps more around. You can really see the lighting through the spinning wheel, whatever they call it. You can really see the lighting in Ender's Game better. Our buddy Glenn, I felt like when they were showing the trailers, and maybe this is because I'm unfamiliar with DCC, I felt like this soundtrack and call-out seemed cooler to me than DCC, but maybe it's because I'm unfamiliar with all those voices from the audiobook. So maybe that's why. But it sounded really cool.
    55:00
    It is really cool, and Glenn did an amazing job, so congrats to him. And he's another guy that I talk to a couple times a week, and he didn't tell me anything. So, Jerry, your NDAs work, buddy. Yeah. This looks cool. See, I'm intrigued, though. Like, I'm intrigued because if I were to get one of these, see, like, Jamie, this is when I start, I go into analysis paralysis when I make decisions, and I'll think for way too long. If I did get this, then I'm kind of now opening up the door for future P3 games and the back catalog of P3 games. Yeah, you're kind of vested in them, right? That's what they want. They want you vested in their console, and then now you're getting modules, right?
    55:43
    Oh, man. They don't have a P3 at Eureka, do they? No. No. I don't feel like a lot of people operate these, but I kind of understand why. There's a lot of complexity to these, and I do feel like in a home environment, if I'm playing this game, you know, people that have games at home, they're not putting 4,000 plays on their game. Like, maybe some people are, but for the most part, like, I look at my games in the garage, and most of my games, they're around, like, 500 plays, the ones that have been there for a while. And, like, in 500 plays, your game's still brand new. Like you're hardly like maybe a couple of things go wrong on a game in 500 plays, but not not that often. Yeah. So I feel like I don't know. But this I view this more as a home platform. You buy it because you don't have a lot of space. Yeah. You know, I think I just think that Jerry should reach out to prominent places, especially the bat and try try getting a little bit more of a on location presence with this stuff. Yeah, because how many would you sell people, you know, that fall in love with it? I think you'd outsell the $12,000 or whatever it is to send it over there. I don't know why more places – we've talked about this on the roundtable. I don't know why more places don't say, hey, look, we're going to support you, but we really want to understand in a heavy traffic environment like Electric Bat what might happen to our games. And then like kind of take that data and go, OK, these are the things that often don't work out well after thousands of plays. We're going to harden those things and we're going to work with Electric Bat or whatever, any other high traffic arcade out there that they want to do this with. The Bat is the high traffic arcade. It is. OK. So like that's your testing ground. I think so. I think that's an absolute no brainer. I not here pitching Jerry that he should be on the phone with Kale and Rachel but I think so Plus you not going to get two better owners that take care of their machines better than those two So this seems like a no brainer to me but I don run a pinball company Yeah. Well, and dude, the other thing, too, is the people I don't know how to explain this. And I don't even know if Kayla Rachel knows how to explain it. Maybe they do. But there's a wicked, unique group of people that go to electric bat. They are. It covers every fandom you could possibly think of. They're into comics. Yeah, a total melting pot. Absolutely. They're into comics. They're into punk rock. They're into rock. They're into, like, think of every genre of everything. They're into all of it. So, like, the nerdier the better. And I feel like this platform has some pretty nerdy but really cool stuff that they probably haven't experienced before. Like, I will give Jerry props. He does things with pinball that are, like, really push the limits of what you can do, like the engineering. There's no question. And TJ, their chief engineer, is just an incredible dude. You know, just to get a chance to meet him and his mind and to listen to him and his wife talk about the things he took. He loves pinball and he loves his platform, and it's pretty evident when you can see the mechs that he makes, right? Yeah, you're kind of hyping me, dude, but you're making me more confused as to what decision I should make here. I mean, I would say this. If you have a P3, Dungeon Crawler Carl, no-brainer. Okay? If you have a P3 and you love Ender's Game, no-brainer. You're buying these. If you don't have a P3, is this the game that's – and you are a fan of either of these IPs, this could be the game that can get you in there. If you're not a fan of P3, do yourself a favor and just go play it again. Go to a show. You want to go to a show anyway. Just go to the show and play it and give it another chance. Come in and say, okay, it's different. It shoots different. Let me see what the hell they did. And you'll be – I think you'll be more than pleasantly surprised. Yeah. I think what we need to do is at Expo because I don't feel like I can pull the trigger on this yet. Like I can't. I feel like at Expo – You have time. You and I should – They don't come out right away. They take their time obviously building because they don't build until they're ordered. So they don't order the parts. Will you be like my P3 coach at Expo and be like Ralph? I will be your P3 sensei. Okay. I need that. Hopefully Kevin Manning is there. He can help us a little more. Yeah, I need that. I think that would get me over the hump. I need someone to explain to me what's going on here. I'll caddy for you. I'll caddy for you, brother. No worries. I'll caddy for you, and we'll go right there. We're doing it. And we're getting media passes, Rob Burke. Have you called Rob Burke back?
    60:23
    You're unbelievable. Unbelievable. I will. I know. I'm going to blow it for us. Did he call you today? I'm going to blow it for us. No, he didn't call me. I think he's done. He's done with me. I got to call him back. I'm telling you this right now. I'm not taking your call until you call Rob Burke. All right. I'll call. How about this? He talks almost nightly. How about this? I'm not taking your call. I will call him. It's still early my time, and it's still early enough his time. He's on the East Coast. I will call him after we're done recording this podcast. All right. And I'll see. I'll see what. And for those of you that didn't see the roundtable, you should watch it. Rob Burke called in in a bathtub. Yeah. He's like, meh. Do you know how many people want us to do the next roundtable in a bathtub?
    61:05
    I know. And I pitched it to you, and you kind of felt like you didn't want to do it. Well, nobody wants to see this, okay? But, Jamie, you're forgetting. Like, they don't have to see you. Like, we can – I don't have my phone with me. No, I do. Like, we can be in the bathtub and you just kind of, you know, I'm seeing you from like, I'm not seeing your nipple. I'm seeing you from above the nipples up. I don't want to see it. Yeah, I don't want to see. No one wants to see my nipples. No one wants to see your nipples. Kale's nipples are probably great. They're probably gorgeous. Yeah, he probably has these gorgeous Adonis nipples. Shirk off. But, oh, man, it's so tough because he's so much healthier than us. He really is. He's annoying, you know. And he tells us stuff we should do and we know it's right. And it's right, but I just can't do it. I want a cheeseburger. They're delicious. I know, dude. But I got to get my body ready for when we see Rob Burke in October. You got to get your body ready for Rob Burke in October. I didn't mean that. That's weird. I got to get my body tight for Rob. Ready for Pinball Expo for Rob. What are we going to do? We should be each other's accountability partner. I'd say we need to start our – we probably – in mid-August, we've got to get serious. Do you have an Apple Watch? I do. Okay. Here's what we're going to do. But we don't want to start yet. I'm not ready yet. We're going to start competing against each other mid-October. And it has to be mid-Oct – no, not mid-October. No, mid-August, mid-August, mid-August. So it's still hot as shit here, but we could do that. We can do that. I think it should be the beginning. No, mid is two – mid only gives us like three weeks, dude. When you're our age, things don't change that fast. We need at least a good month and a half. All right. So next week?
    62:53
    No. I'm not ready. Oh, shit. It's almost August. That's what I'm saying. No, no, wait, wait. Hold on. No, wait, wait. We have all of September. So we start at the end of August. So it gives us a whole month. September, most of October. And we can just shed 10 pounds. I can shed 10 LBs. Yeah. I need to. If I shed 10, I'll be in good condition. Oh, I'll be good. I'll be really solid at 10 LPs. I'm still really good about myself. So we'll be each other's accountability partner. We'll check in. We'll do the watch thing. Yeah, we got to look, especially because no one wants to see the bathtub thing before. I mean, I don't know if they want to see it at all. Actually, in the comments, let us know. Do you want to see the roundtable guys in bathtubs for an episode? Yes or no? Does that interest you in any way? Please say no.
    63:39
    I'm hoping they say no, too. So, all right, we're about wrapped up. Orville Albert already did that. Oh, he did? Yeah. Well, shout out to Orville Albert. We love that guy. Can you hear, like, the water splashing around? Yeah. See, that's almost more funny that you know he's in the bathtub, but you can't see him. All right, Jamie, you have a lot of responsibility for Expo 2, I'm hearing. Like, you're going to be part of a panel, right? Yeah, I don't know if Joe wants me to announce this, but Joe asked me to be a part of his. Anxiety and Pinball panel seminar and literally had an anxiety attack talking to him about it. That's a true story. Wait, hold on. So hold on. I don't know that I know this. So he asked you if you'd do it, and then you had an anxiety attack about the panel about anxiety. On the phone with Joe Cervino, I had an anxiety attack thinking about being on that panel. And it was hilarious. I can laugh at it now, but during the time when I'm in my back porch, I'm just sitting there. He's on the phone with me. He's trying to convince me to be on this panel. And I'm like, no, too much Jamie. I can't deal with it. I'm already on a roundtable doing a live roundtable in a seminar room. People don't want to see me that much. He's like, what's wrong with you? And I go, I can't do it. Joe, I can't do it. Was your heart rate elevated, you think? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? Everything, palpitations, the whole thing. And finally he goes, all right, well, you don't have to do it, dude. You know, I just thought you'd be great on it. And I was like, breathe. Did you commit yet? Yeah, I committed. Okay, you got this, dude. I got it. And people want to see you, despite your weirdness.
    65:27
    It wasn't an anxiety attack. It's more of the imposter syndrome attack that I get. I don't even get that. But what are you an imposter about?
    65:38
    Plagues. You're a big dog now. I know, but I don't know. I'm crazy. That's it. I've been out of my med for a couple of days, and I've got to take some meds. I mean, I do understand you, dude, because I get a lot of anxiety, too, about this stuff. Sometimes there are times where I'll make what I think is a really cool short or a really cool reel or something, and I won't post it. And then too much time passes, and it's because I'm overanalyzing it, and I get nervous about it. Yeah, and then it's over. Then you can't post it. And then the time has come and gone, so I got to get over that, too. So I still get anxious about stuff. Despite doing this for a long time now, I still get anxious about things. So it is what it is. We got to push through. I pushed through. I said yes, and I said, stick it like in the afternoon where everyone's on the floor so no one will see me. That's what I told them. I think you're going to get – honestly, I think a lot of people are going to attend that because I feel there's – it will – hopefully you guys will touch on this, especially for – I get this a lot where I'll say on like one of my podcasts, hey, go out there, play on location, play at a league night. I think we'll talk about that, about tournament play and getting anxiety when you're playing in a tournament and that sort of thing. I guarantee you we'll talk about that. But I kind of want to take it if I'm going to be on the panel. Yeah, I want to take it as the anxiety that I have as a podcaster. OK, I. OK. And do I get anxious before a podcast? Do I get anxious before filming a reel? And I did a video of my edits, my bloopers recently that absolutely – ladies and gentlemen, real quick, we're wrapping this up. Our currency is not money. Our currency is views and engagement. Well, some people's currency is money, but – That's true. But my currency is not money. My currency is – look, if you could pay for some of these cameras and stuff, that would really be nice. But it is people interacting with me, right?
    67:49
    I am on the same exact page, Jamie. I've said it before. My excitement comes from creating something that I hope is entertaining to people that like pinball. That's kind of really my main motivator. It's just that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really it. That's all I do this for. It scratches an itch because I wanted to be on the radio. We've heard that story. And you can be creative and share your thoughts. I can do that. When I get someone, I think someone who posted on my, I did a multimorphic video. It's out there. You can see it. It's the vlog style that Ralph kind of helped me and Mason edited the shit out of. Which I think, by the way, real quick, I'm glad you did the video vlog style because I feel like that's how people know you. That's what you do. You kind of you're like I feel like when I'm even though I haven't been to your house, I feel like when I'm I'm hanging out in the back porch with Jamie and I'm hearing his thoughts of the day, whether it be pinball and sometimes you share life stuff. So I feel like it's natural that that would be the form you'd video something in because that's how you do your content, which I like. It feels very like personal. I like it. It's cool. I like it a lot. Yeah. Thanks, brother. Well, I'm due for one. I need to post. I'm not going to post anything today. Do you get anxiety? Do you get anxiety? I know you do, by the way. I already know the answer to this. But do you get anxiety when too many days have gone by and you don't have you haven't posted something? Yeah. Why do you think that is? A fear of becoming irrelevant? Yeah, probably. That's sad. I understand that. I understand that. Real quick. I got a comment. Have you gotten any shitty comments at you recently? I got one today and I asked Kim about it and I said, is this is this someone saying something mean? Yeah, I didn't know because they said I was a Chad and I didn't even know what a Chad was is. OK, what's a Chad? Well, do you want to read like the description of what a Chad is? I definitely want to read the description of what is a Chad and hear this. All right, so a Chad, and this is weird because maybe like part of this I might view myself as, but the other part I definitely wouldn't. Well, actually, I wouldn't really define myself as this at all. A Chad is internet slang for a confident, attractive man.
    70:21
    So far, so good. But then it says originally used online subcultures to describe an attractive muscular, not muscular, and socially dominant man who easily attracts romantic attention. Like that's not, you know, so like, I don't know, maybe it's used in other ways, but then it says it can also be used as a way to mock or insult an arrogant show off. So you don't know if he's calling you a chat or she is calling you a chat in the good sense that you're handsome, confident male or that you are a jackass. Like I would appreciate it if someone says I'm confident because I do feel like there are times where I am confident. Did you delete it or did you keep it? I don't delete comments. I deleted one. All right, we're going to get to that. So I want to hear what you deleted. I don't delete comments unless the only time I do. You and I are both not about censorship and all that stuff, so we're on the same page. But the only time I will delete a comment or potentially block someone is if they're saying racist things or sexist things or things that are inappropriate. Because it depends. If it's not that bad but kind of offensive but soft, I'll leave it. But if it's something that's really bad, whether it be racist or something that's like – then I'll delete it. But those I feel like are reasons that anybody would want to delete something. Yeah, those are very viable reasons to get rid of it. But yeah, so what did someone say? This guy just pissed me off today. What did he say? I don't know. He said on the video that I did at Multimorphic, I showed that they got me some Diet Cokes, which they didn't get me. They just had Diet Cokes there. But anybody that has any kind of comedic bone in their body would know that that was kind of like you joking around. Of course. It was funny. And he goes, so it's a he, I think. And he goes, is that all it takes is a six-pack of Diet Coke to get you to show a multimorphic P3 machine? And I went, delete. Really? I don't think that. Oh, I'm surprised you would have deleted that, though. Was he trying to say like. Oh, all right. I don't feel like that was that bad. I was in a mood and I just didn't want to deal with it. Yeah, it wasn't that bad on a scale. I thought you were going to say something like they said, oh, Jamie, you're that full of yourself that you thought they specially delivered Diet Coke. I'm not going to do jokes for you or whatever, something stupid like that.
    72:42
    No, he just rubbed me the wrong way. Sometimes we're in moods. Sometimes I was in a mood. I was like, Matt, F you. There's this one guy, Jamie, that I'm not going to say his name. He's all over the place in different comments. He transcends multiple hobbies. Text me his name right now.
    73:05
    You won't know. You won't know who he is. Oh, I won't know him. Okay. I'm almost positive. We'll talk about it after. But he's so egotistical in all of his comments. I leave him usually. But he also says stuff that's really weird a lot, like sexual towards me, which is weird. Like he'll say, oh, I don't know about this, but I'd sure like to do this to you. And I'm like, okay. But it's weird, though. Like it's not normal stuff. It wouldn't be like stuff a normal person would openly say. Do yourself a favor. Do yourself a favor. Write down to Kim, your wife, write down your top five people that you think would keep you in a basement that are fans of you. And then when you go missing, we can then try to find you. It's a good call. Okay. I don't think this guy would put me in a... This guy sounds like someone he's going to stick you in a basement and make you dress like the Gimp. I think he knows too many people in the hobby that... Oh, okay. Yeah. He knows a lot of people. He's not a content creator, but he's everywhere. And he never says anything nice about any game ever. Like, nothing is ever good. It's all shit. Everything is always shit, and everything is majorly sexual. Like, everything is sexual.
    74:22
    All right, write it down and save it. This way the police know where to find you. Yeah, I'm going to let you know after who it is. But if you do know who he is, I'd be surprised. Okay. And I wonder if he... Well, he doesn't find me attractive. I'm not a Chad, guys. I'm not a Chad.
    74:38
    I don't even know if he would listen to this. I'm a bad bod. Here's the thing. I don't even know if he listened to this, if he would even know we were talking about him. Because it's so commonplace. No, it's so commonplace for him to make these comments because I see him make similar comments to other people. It's just weird, though. Like, it doesn't have anything to do with pinball. Like, if I was like, oh, what if on your multi-marked video I was like, hey, I'd love to shove my thumb in your butthole. How would you like that? It's like, what does that even have to do with anything? You know what I mean? I might delete it. You know, I got Crohn's, buddy. You don't want to be up there. No one wants it. I don't want anybody in my pocket.
    75:15
    Okay, we're going downhill fast. Maybe we should end it here. I see this happened yesterday. Let's end it. We should end it here. All right, Jamie, anything you want to plug before we take off? No, I'm taking a couple of weeks off of podcasting. I just had a podcast with Kevin Manning, which I thought is a really good interview. Go back and listen to it. I watched half of it so far. It's great. And Kevin's awesome. Kevin's great. He's awesome. He's awesome. It's not getting the views that I want. So my currency is not filling, but I'm okay with it. And you know what? They're not all. We'll do a roundtable in about three weeks. Give us give us a couple of weeks to catch our breath. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in summary, I think we're lucky that these companies are making all these games. There's definitely options for everybody. I I'm a little torn as to what I want to do. I'm going to probably hold off on the on the on the multimorphic thing until I get more time on it. So Jamie's going to go through that at Expo. And then I don't know. I might text Zach and say maybe that totan turns into a Bon Jovi. I don't know. I think it's going to. And I definitely think you text Zach, but you have to text and call Rob Burke first. Yes, I got it. I'm on it. I'm going to do it. Thank you. All right, everybody. Pleasure. Thanks for having me on here, buddy. All right. We've done it all. We've said it all. Thanks, Jamie. And I will be talking to you, obviously. All right. Obviously. We talk too much. All right, buddy. If you guys like the podcast, give it a thumbs up. Write a comment. Subscribe to the channel. Smash that like button. Yep. And we'll see you next time. Thanks, guys. We'll see you. Thanks.