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NYC Pinball League: The Anatomy of a Pinball Resurgence

Pintastic New England·video·1h 12m·analyzed·Aug 9, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

NYC pinball resurgence traced through operators, leagues, and venues that rebuilt the scene from 2000s dormancy.

Summary

Chris Medina delivers a comprehensive historical overview of New York City's pinball resurgence from the late 1990s through the 2010s, tracing how the scene evolved from near-extinction after the Broadway arcade closure to a thriving community. He highlights key figures (Max, Al, John) and locations (Satellite Lounge, Modern Pinball, Sunshine Pinball) that catalyzed growth, and discusses the organizational structures (Pinball NYC League, South Slope League, Bells and Chimes) that built sustainable competitive and social infrastructure.

Key Claims

  • Broadway arcade closed permanently in 1997, forecasted by a 1985 New York Times article that lumped arcades with adult entertainment in Times Square redevelopment plans

    high confidence · Chris Medina citing historical documentation and press coverage

  • In early 2000s, there were fewer than 70 pinball machines in the entire New York City greater area

    high confidence · Al's recorded testimony from 2015 Pinball Expo

  • Al purchased 14 pinball machines and a routing route for $11,500, establishing operational infrastructure

    high confidence · Al's detailed recounting of early acquisition

  • Max launched New York City Pinball League in January 2008 at Amsterdam's Billiards in East Village with 12 players

    high confidence · Chris Medina's historical narrative

  • John hosted first Pinferno tournament in March 2009 in his East Village apartment, drawing 20 players

    high confidence · Chris Medina's account of John's competitive pinball organizing

  • Pinball NYC League launched in January 2011 with 5 teams in 5 bars with about 25 players, later covered by New York Times

    high confidence · Chris Medina describing league founding and media coverage

  • Sunshine Pinball and Laundromat opened in 2016 as hybrid of original laundromat with speakeasy pinball arcade, featuring ~30 rotating premium titles

    high confidence · Chris Medina's detailed description with photographic evidence

  • Bells and Chimes NYC chapter launched first tournament in 2016 with 24 participants, founded by Anna Wolk

    high confidence · Chris Medina's account of women's pinball organizing

Notable Quotes

  • “Pinball had fallen hard from pop culture prominence to subculture obscurity, kept alive only by a community of diehard hobbyists.”

    Chris Medina@ 3:08 — Sets historical context for the resurgence narrative; captures the nadir of pinball's cultural position

  • “a plan for redeveloping Times Square had lumped pinball arcades with pornographic movie theaters and sex-related shops, which planners say would all disappear from the area when the project is completed.”

    Chris Medina (citing 1985 NY Times)@ 4:37 — Historical evidence of regulatory/cultural hostility toward pinball arcades that forced Broadway closure

  • “I had one working game. Wound up with the The Simpsons. And then my college sweetheart who lives in Montana saw a local ad in the newspaper. Two pinball machines, $200 each.”

    Al@ 10:03 — Illustrates Al's organic entry into collecting and the modest secondary market pricing of early 2000s

  • “I bought 14 pinball machines for $11,500. And the route. And then went into all those places and said, Jon Hey, look, this guy was a clown. I'd like to take it seriously.”

    Al@ 12:02 — Demonstrates how Al professionalized NYC's operator landscape by consolidating route, establishing quality standards

  • “I quickly came to believe that this was a game that needed to be championed so that everyone would experience the wide-eyed joy and wonder of pinball”

    Chris Medina (describing his motivation)@ 19:39 — Articulates ideological driver behind Pinball NYC league founding; mission-driven rather than purely commercial

Entities

Chris MedinapersonMaxpersonAlpersonJohnpersonBobpersonPeterpersonMikepersonSteve Epsteinperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Successful pinball bars and venues (Satellite Lounge, Modern Pinball, Sunshine) expanded machine counts over time, indicating strong location economics and player demand; venues became destinations rather than incidental entertainment

    high · Satellite Lounge: 7 machines expanding to ~14+ under remodel; Modern Pinball: weekly tournament attendance; Sunshine: ~30 rotating machines, described as 'uncomfortably crowded'

  • ?

    business_signal: Operator economics in early 2000s NYC allowed sub-$200/machine acquisition (Al's Montana purchase) and $11,500 for 14-machine + route acquisition; secondary market pricing indicates severe market saturation/abandonment in early 2000s

    high · Al purchased two machines for $200 each from Montana; purchased Twilight Zone, Fishtails, Funhouse, Mario Andretti for $4,800 total; purchased 14-machine route for $11,500

  • ?

    community_signal: Chris Medina founded Pinball NYC League as explicitly community-driven organization to promote pinball and ensure operator/bar profitability, recognizing symbiotic relationship between venue revenue and pinball ecosystem health

    high · Chris explicitly states: 'I recognized that in order for pinball to flourish again in the city, the locations needed to be making money off the machines. More money would mean more attention would be spent by the operators and establishments, which would lead to better maintained machines and more locations.'

  • ?

    event_signal: 2015 Pinball Expo seminar on NYC pinball scene documented and archived; Al's recorded testimony preserved; represents institutional memory-keeping and community documentation of resurgence narrative

    high · Chris references 2015 Pinball Expo presentation and plays recorded audio of Al's 2015 testimony; uses archival materials and printouts to document timeline

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.218

0:00
Yeah. So a few years ago, I was at Pinball Expo hearing the beginnings of a really great seminar about the scene in New York City and the modern day version of the pinball scene in New York City. and partway through it, some wise guy in the audience started asking questions and he just wouldn't stop. We never did get to hear the rest of what Chris had to say, but we'll talk more about that wise guy later on. So for right now, there's the leader of Pinball NYC to update us on a few additional years of what's going on in New York City, the anatomy of a pinball resurgence. Chris Medina.
1:27
They were nice enough to bring me a stool. Relax. There we go. Okay. I'm not going to lie, folks. I remember my memory of this presentation I did at Expo in 2015 was just tragically crushed when I looked it up recently and replayed the audio. And I'm like, oh, my God, that was terrible. That was me? I can't be that bad again. So we went back to the drawing board. But I'm going to read to try to cut out a lot of the ums and ahs and awkward pauses that were back in the day. And I do require my glasses. So what am I speaking of today? There's been some little bit of haziness about what I'm trying to talk about today. It is not about specifically what's going on in the city right now. people playing pinball and there's a lot out there and all that and we'll get to some of that. But it's really what interests me more is how did we get to where we are now? And so without further ado, New York City, the anatomy of a pinball resurgence as I tell it. Okay, as I stand before you today, I think we can all agree that our beloved game of pinball has arisen from the dark ages of the early aughts and is once again flourishing. The turn of the century saw the close of the Williams pinball division, leaving Stern alone at the helm of what seemed to be a sinking ship. Pinball had fallen hard from pop culture prominence to subculture obscurity, kept alive only by a small community of diehard hobbyists. And yet, here we are today in a new era of pinball prosperity. There are now more pinball manufacturers globally than perhaps at any one time in the game's history. Where once there was only Expo in Chicago, pinball conventions like this one are now taking place all over the country. Pinball barcades and museums are popping up all over the place. Pinball is once again cool and has reclaimed its rightful status in popular culture. So how did we get here? Well, of course, that answer is rather complicated, but I'd like to offer some insight by recounting what has transpired in New York City over the past couple of decades. So let's set the scene. In the late 1990s, our buddy, it's not just my buddy, but I think a few of you know our good friend Sam, a pinball fan grew up in Minnesota, moved to New York City, excited at the prospect of embracing a vibrant pinball scene. However, such a scene did not exist. While Steve Epstein's legendary Broadway arcade was up and running when he arrived,

“When Al and Max arrived on the scene, the doors opened for something bigger, and everyone from player to operator to bar owner benefited.”

Chris Medina@ 23:41 — Identifies the symbiotic cycle that drove NYC resurgence—operators' quality and investment enabled league growth

  • “Unlike the bars that housed the majority of the machines in the city, Modern Pinball was a space for all ages.”

    Chris Medina@ 26:58 — Highlights Modern Pinball's differentiation and accessibility expansion beyond late-night bar venue model

  • “Sunshine quickly became the city's foremost location to play pinball. With roughly 30 rotating titles...it was uncomfortably crowded with pinball machines.”

    Chris Medina@ 29:41 — Describes the premium, density-based appeal of Sunshine; establishment as de facto pinball destination

    • Steve Zoller
    person
    Anna Wolkperson
    Greg Pavarelliperson
    Kate Steven Martinperson
    Jess Warrenperson
    Alex Levyperson
    Philippe Wolakperson
    Pinball NYCorganization
    New York City Pinball Leagueorganization
    South Slope Pinball Leagueorganization
    Bells and Chimesorganization
    Satellite Loungeorganization
    Modern Pinballorganization
    Sunshine Pinball and Laundromatorganization
    Reciprocal Skateboardsorganization
    Broadway Arcadeorganization
  • ?

    community_signal: NYC is documented as a major competitive pinball hub with multiple overlapping league structures, tournament venues (Modern Pinball, Reciprocal, Pinferno), and growing tournament infrastructure supporting competitive meta development

    high · Multiple leagues (NYC Pinball League 2008, Pinball NYC 2011, South Slope 2014), multiple tournament venues, IFPA score reporting from early 2000s onward, consistent tournament participation across community

  • $

    market_signal: Narrative of pinball democratization through women-focused organizing: Bells and Chimes chapters positioned as critical force driving women demographic growth, fastest-growing population segment, and changing cultural perception of pinball as inclusive

    high · Chris emphasizes Bells and Chimes as 'critical component' of community growth; notes women now 'fastest growing demographic'; states they 'draw in a population of people that are normally not drawn to competitive pinball'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Sunshine Pinball's collection includes highly specific premium and rare titles (James Cameron Avatar LE, Pirates of the Caribbean JJP, Supreme, Big Ben/similar bar games, first Big Lebowski model), suggesting strong secondary market for LE/premium machines and collector interest in rotating access

    high · Chris lists Sunshine's collection: 'A-list Harry Williams and Bally titles, and super rare machines like Big Ben or similar name Bar, The Big Lebowski Pinball (First Model), Supreme, Jersey Jack Pinball, Pirates of the Caribbean...every Stern James Cameron's Avatar (Limited Edition)'

  • $

    market_signal: Location pinball economics in early 2010s required operator quality and maintenance to attract players; poor operator maintenance (broken flippers unrepaired for months) drove players toward owned machines or routed machines from quality operators like Max/Al

    high · Al describes bars with non-functional left flippers, cloudy displays, no maintenance response; states he bought his own machine because 'only way I'll be able to play a good working machine is to buy one'; later becomes operator to professionalize route

  • ?

    community_signal: Greg Pavarelli characterized as having obsessive personality that drove early adoption and consistent community participation; personality type as driver of community infrastructure building

    medium · Chris's brother Chris Pavarelli described Greg as having 'obsessive personality'; Greg's consistent presence in community photos and organizing; Pavarelli's involvement in multiple league/tournament initiatives

  • ?

    product_strategy: Modern Pinball differentiated as 'all-ages venue' in contrast to bar-centric pinball landscape, representing accessibility/inclusivity strategy that attracted 'enormous love and attention from the pinball community and media'

    high · Chris explicitly contrasts Modern Pinball: 'Unlike the bars that housed the majority of the machines in the city, Modern Pinball was a space for all ages. They received enormous love and attention from the pinball community and media alike'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Transition from centralized machine-rating system (Chris Medina's manual Pinball NYC website rating every machine) to crowdsourced Pinball Map represents operational scalability challenge for community infrastructure

    high · Chris describes original design as 'completely unsustainable' and states: 'So as the current design, we turned everything over to the Pinball Map, which now it's crowdsourced. I don't have to go and play every machine and rate them. Much, much more efficient.'

    • 4:25
    it would have to close its doors permanently in 1997. In fact, this closure was forecast in a 1985 New York Times article, which noted that, quote, a plan for redeveloping Times Square had lumped pinball arcades with pornographic movie theaters and sex-related shops, which planners say would all disappear from the area when the project is completed.
    4:50
    Just over a decade later, the forecast would prove true. Without the pinball arcade, New York City's public pinball scene was limited to a handful of bars featuring poorly maintained machines. And while Sam had found a small community of people who would meet up for pinball bar crawls, 2000 would be the year these crawls ended. For the next seven years, pinball would lie dormant, awaiting fresh energy to help it rise again into the city.
    5:20
    The new operators, the new operators I think are the first ingredient to come into play here. Despite its decline, we all know that pinball has always had a core following of people who never lost their love of the game. The first step in this city's resurgence would require that a small handful of these people step up and draw the remainder out of dormancy and help spread the gospel. Enter Max.
    5:48
    Max was a home collector who would eventually run out of space for his games, so he decided to route them. Unlike the traditional coin operator in New York City at the time, Max was part of the pinball world, and he knew how to play and maintain the machines he put on location. Wallace Rich, easy, easy Kate, take it easy, all right, let's keep this all in perspective. It was Scott, easy Scott, all right. Wallace Rich was initially small, and the quality of his machines immediately raised the bar in New York City. In an effort to promote his locations, he then took over an obscure website that tracked New York City's publicly accessible pinball machines. this locator existed long before the now popular pinball map and it served as a city's guide for the diehard fans this is actually a printout uh when i was uh would later go on and do research i printed this stuff out to try to um take with me and literally troll the city and visit all these locations so all that but the handwritten stuff is basically uh my notes of what the hell was going on but this is from the website all this is from the website and you can see in the upper left-hand corner. He's promoting the league that he would eventually do. And in the upper right-hand corner, he sold an ad. Okay. The next person on the block is our beloved Al. Now, Al, good old Al. Now, I could tell Al's story, but honestly, I have a recording of Al from the 2015 Expo, which Dave has alluded to, which is he'll do a better job than I do. So here we go. This is Al in 2015.
    7:41
    Al, you've got a mic. Do you want to just tell the story? I've got three or four. Okay, there's a... I was looking at Max's locator and looking for pinball machines to play, and there were less than 70 in the entire New York City greater area, which was kind of sad. and I found a few really nice bars in Williamsburg, a cool beer bar, a very nice hipster, nice music bar, and a few places that had pinball machines. And I'd go from Manhattan, I'd drive out there at night, so I wasn't working at the time, and you'd go and the left flipper wouldn't work, and it would take months for the operator to fix that left flipper.
    8:18
    But I'd still go play every once in a while, and the machines just went down and down and down. So I said, heck, I need my own machine. because I know the only way I'll be able to play a good working machine is to buy one. So I bought a Simpsons pinball party new in the box, December of 05.
    8:34
    While I was waiting, the next day I go to a thrift store, and I'm sharing my exciting news that I'm getting a pinball machine. They're like, really? We got an old one in the back. But I think it needs legs. So the next day, it was a Monday, I'll never forget, and I go, well, what are they going to do with the machine? And they're like, well, come back Friday, because they're not sure if they're going to put it on the Internet or whether they're going to sell it. And so I drove Tuesday. I'm not going to wait until Friday. And it's a different manager. I go to the same salesman, and he's like, hey, Myron, the manager. He goes, what do we do with the pinball machine? And Myron's like, well, maybe we should sell it before anything happens to it. And so they go, well, how would you pick it up? I go, well, I've got a Mini Cooper. I go, let me drive my Mini Cooper around, and I'll measure the back. As I'm driving around, they're carrying the thing out, off the legs, but not folded down. And I see, wow, really nice condition, top card pinball machine. Gottlieb wedgehead stand up targets four kickers, slingshot kickers and I fold down the back seat and they slide it in and I couldn't fold the top down but I'm going three blocks, so I drove the three blocks and my super brought the machine upstairs I called crazy levy because I knew there was a I saw a Gottlieb road race I think it was at a falafel shop downtown and there was a business card so I rode down there got the business card.
    9:55
    The guy came over and cracked open the door. It was a fuse. Put in the new fuse. I had one working game. Wound up with the Simpsons. And then my college sweetheart who lives in Montana saw a local ad in the newspaper. Two pinball machines, $200 each. Comet and Checkpoint. So I had those delivered. And I go to a NASCAR van because now I've got a relationship with the UPS driver because I'm waiting for parts all the time. Maybe I bought a few other games at some auctions or something that get state sales. and she I went to a NASCAR event not that I'm a NASCAR guy but I committed and there's a local, they're handing out the local Sunday newspaper, I see an ad in the classifieds, pinball machine, $1,000 it was a Twilight Zone a Fishtails, a Funhouse and a Mario Andretti, I borrowed them down to $4,800 for the four, I went the next day and picked them up, you know that on a Tuesday and so now I'm starting to mass pinball machines and one of the owners of one of those original three bars knows I have a Funhouse now and he loves Funhaus so he goes look you bring your Funhaus and I'll tell this operator to take the game out because I forgot what it was whatever game it was it just wasn't working very well and so the operator didn't like that idea of being replaced so he came back with a list with 10 machines on it and I saw Roadshow I go well you like Funhaus I go that's it's older brother I go maybe Carly Carter's a little annoying but it's a good game so he brings Roadshow and the derrick or the plow in front of Ted's mouth would never go up. One of the optos had failed. And so you'd spend your 70 feet, drive out to Brooklyn, spend 75 cents, advance to where you can start multi-ball, and it says, shoot Ted's mouth. And the thing's in the way. And so you're like yelling at the machine, I can't shoot Ted's mouth. Maybe you need a jump ramp.
    11:38
    So another year goes by, and the operator wants me to call him. I'm thinking, well, I'm not going to go fix the guy's pinball machines, because I had started learning how to fix that. Someone's guidance, an electronics genius freak that I knew.
    11:52
    But he wanted to know if I wanted to buy his machines. I bought 14 pinball machines for $11,500. And the route.
    12:02
    And then went into all those places and said, hey, look, this guy was a clown. I'd like to take it seriously. And they were all very happy. Very fine with that idea. It was a Friday. I gave the guy the money and there was one of the bars, the beer hall had a I forgot what game it was, but the left flipper never worked. And it had a cloudy, a gassed out matrix display. But I figured if it was a Friday, I don't have a chance to bring another game in until the next week, but if I fix that flipper, maybe a couple people will play it. So I lift up the playfield and there's a wire dangling right next to the coil. I saw it back on, the flipper works, and the guy couldn't, the other operator couldn't do that in three months. Not once checked on the game. And he's bitching it's $40 in the coin box. And so I just, from And then I took it seriously and had more people coming up to me. Oh, my God, I love pinball. Anytime they saw me fixing the game or whatever, and I got a bit of a following. And a few other bars called me and helped open up a place called Satellite Lounge. We brought a couple of pinball machines there, and people were coming to play pinball. So we kept bringing another and another until we filled the place up with seven games.
    13:16
    It is at this point, you have to put yourself in my shoes in 2015 I'm doing a presentation for the first time ever and the delightful the now delightful rambling of our beloved Al Seahak I was just shitting my pants I'm like we're going to run out of time this guy's going on and on and so it was at that exact point where I'm like oh okay look we got to move on they're going to throw us out of here but But honestly, as I listen to it now, tears start to slow my eyes.
    13:58
    That was Al. I got to go. Exactly. We all caught some of those numbers, right? He bought two machines from Montana for $200 each. he bought what what twilight zone and and uh uh fishtails funhouse and mario andretti for forty eight hundred dollars total he bought a he bought 14 machines and a route for eleven thousand five hundred dollars that's how you start a route a routing service like i mean that ain't happening now right anyone near that now uh anyway uh here's a couple more pictures of al uh look at And there he is under the hood of one of his machines.
    14:52
    While it would take Al and Max's dominance as operators a while to fully take hold, the seeds were now sown for pinball to grow again in the city. The sudden influx of quality games and the New York City Pinball Locator website were game changers. What was now needed was to get the existing community of fans to emerge from darkness. enters some regular competitive pinball.
    15:20
    First up, after failing miserably in a seed division's final match at Papa in 2007, Max decided to start a league in the city to help him play better competitively. Also, to help him earn a coin drop. And in January 2008, Max launched in New York City a pinball league at Amsterdam's Billiards in the East Village.
    15:47
    While the first season brought together only 12 like-minded fans, it did manage to lay the groundwork for growth in the community.
    15:58
    While Max initially ran the league, he soon turned the reins over to his right-hand man, Bob. Bob's participation in the league was critical. At its peak, he not only attended and managed the New York City Pinball League three nights a week, but he also faithfully reported the scores to the IFPA each week, a key ingredient for the participating players. As Max's life did not allow for this level of commitment, it is impossible to overstate Bob's importance in these early years. The year prior to the launch of the New York City Pinball League, a Wall Street employee and resident of the East Village would discover pinball at his local dive bar and soon lay more timber on the fire for this resurgence. John's obsession with the Spider-Man table at Vasek's Horseshoe Bar would ultimately lead him to buy one of his own. Getaway, Diner, and Creature from the Black Lagoon would soon follow. In March 2009, John hosted his first Pinferno competition in his East Village apartment. Partly because of his participation in Max's league, John was able to draw 20 players for his first of these tournaments. As he continued to collect machines, John would ultimately seek out locations to route them. A small skateboard shop in the East Village agreed to take in one of his machines, and soon after, John learned that Reciprocal Skateboards was on the verge of closing. But rather than packing his machine up and walking away, he instead invested in reciprocal and ultimately brought in more of his machines. Reciprocal would go on to become the host of several pin frontal competitions and serve as the heart of the pinball New York City community for several years.
    17:51
    Circa 2004 that me by the way that me without a beard Here a bit of my origin story So circa 2004 at a small speakeasy bar in Koreatown Los Angeles I rediscovered pinball A pioneer of the barcade model, Miss T's Barcade was actually an apartment where a young couple shared their coin-op arcade collection, sold cheap beer, and hired a DJ for their twice-weekly parties. A child of the 80s arcade, I was so tickled by the establishment that I had to share the experience with my buddy, Paul. Paul, by the way, is also the guy that got me into craft beer, but that's another story. When he and I finally visited together, he quickly drew me to the three pinball machines in the quarter that I had completely ignored during my first visit. As a youngster, I was a decent video game player, but I stayed away from the pinball because it swallowed my quarters too quickly. With Paul's guidance and an adult bank account, I quickly got sucked into pinball. It wasn't long before I spent my free time trolling for pinball machines throughout Los Angeles, which meant pretty much going to bowling alleys. That was pretty much it at the time. In 2008, I returned to New York City and my hunt continued.
    19:18
    Now, I can't remember my exact reasons why, but I got obsessed with pinball in the late 2000s. Truth be told, at the time, I didn't know much about the game, its history, or the community. Nevertheless, I always felt compelled to seek pinball out when I was going out socially, and I felt like a child on Christmas morning whenever I encountered a machine for the first time.
    19:39
    I quickly came to believe that this was a game that needed to be championed so that everyone would experience the wide-eyed joy and wonder of pinball that I was then experiencing. It was this thought that led me to create Pinball New York City, which, by the way, is not to be confused with New York City pinball. As it turns out, I would later learn that you cannot trademark or protect anything with a location name. And Modern Pinball in New York City made that mistake. I made that mistake. Max made that mistake. So we all kind of pretty much had the same name. All right. In the summer of 2010, I embarked on creating an organization that would promote all things pinball in New York City. I designed a website that would track locations and machine conditions, list pinball events, and help me promote and manage the citywide team league. The hope was that my background in design and web development would lead to a product that appealed to a wide audience, both within and out of the established community. So this is the original design, and you can see the ambitious listing of machine ratings, and it's completely unsustainable. That has to go on to somebody else. So as the current design, we turned everything over to the pinball map, which now it's crowdsourced. I don't have to go and play every machine and rate them. Much, much more efficient.
    21:11
    At the center of my efforts was the Pinball New York City League. I recognized that in order for pinball to flourish again in the city, the locations needed to be making money off the machines. More money would mean more attention would be spent by the operators and establishments, which would lead to better maintained machines and more locations. Therefore, unlike the New York City Pinball League and reciprocal's ongoing pinfernal competitions, the Pinball New York City League was built around location pinball. Very much like the well-established New York City Dart League at the time, Pinball New York City is team-based where each team claims a single bar to call home and plays half their matches at home and half at their opponent's bar. not only does this model encourage team loyalty to their bar but the team format can be much more welcoming to new pinball players in January 2011 we launched with 5 teams in 5 bars with about 25 players in the middle of that first season the New York Times did a story on the league and much more press would follow I'm sorry why is that funny?
    22:22
    That's okay. I look funny. No, you're laughing at David. David's not funny looking. He's fine. Okay.
    22:33
    Oh, yeah. You know who said that was Dwyer. Dwyer was so like, Dwyer was so stoked about being there that night and being interviewed, and he got all the quotes. Yeah, pretty much that's it.
    22:52
    Here's an online article for Urban Daddy. There's a few other things. I won't bore you with all that.
    23:02
    Anyway, it's important to note that Pitbull and New York City approach both fed off the success of Max and Al, but also fed them in return. Because the league was based on multiple public locations, those multiple locations benefited from the league. In the early days of the league, those teams that played at locations that were not operated by Al and Max would experience problems. So, over time, teams backed away from these locations in favor of those operated by Max or Al.
    23:31
    The two of them loved this league as they quickly saw revenue growth. This is a predictable but critical cycle in the business of public pinball machines.
    23:41
    When Al and Max arrived on the scene, the doors opened for something bigger, and everyone from player to operator to bar owner benefited.
    23:50
    So you recognize any faces here? This is early. This is satellite lounge. This is early, early days. Wait, can you go back to one second? Because I'll get to the picture. You want to take a picture of a picture? I'll send you the picture.
    24:07
    Oh, yeah. That's Ray with his eyes closed, which is kind of funny. Don't play pinball with your eyes closed.
    24:16
    There's Don. Look at these guys. Yeah, yeah. Joe Saeed. All these guys. There's Al again. One of our early, early. This is such a stacked team. You know, like, you know, Francesco stirred things up because he recruited Alberto, which is like one of the best players in the world at the time. And then Steve Zoller shows up out of nowhere. And such a stacked team. Of course they won. I don't think Al played a single game that season. But whatever. There's Dahlia, that's at old Fifth Estate, with Jimmy, Jimmy McKenna. That was like a, I think it was a split flipper tournament, you know, that we did on the side.
    25:07
    That was later. That wasn't this one. That was later. We did it a few times. Yeah, we did it a few times. Okay. Again, let's talk about some of these key locations that would spawn after this early start of things. So early in the second decade of the new millennium, the groundwork had been laid for pinball to explode in New York City. The Pinferno competitions and Max and Bob's New York City Pinball League had successfully brought together a foundation of players that would serve as the backbone for the New York City pinball community. The Pinball New York City League grew rapidly and helped introduce more players and locations to the joys of our wonderful game. Max and Al were holding up their end of the bargain by expanding and maintaining quality machines at a growing number of locations. All of this served as groundwork for the opening of several key pinball locations that would further raise the bar and fuel the fire. in 2013 john would leave reciprocal skateboards behind and take over satellite lounge in williamsburg an early hub for pinheads at its peak satellite boasted seven well-maintained pinball machines however with the remodel and john's now expansive collection that number would eventually double the newly branded jack bar quickly became the premier pinball bar in new York City. This is back in 2013. There's Randy, there's Bob again. And no, there is a mirror back there. It doesn't go on forever. There's another shot. Okay. In 2013, I also saw the opening of Modern Pinball in Midtown Manhattan. Modern was a collaborative project between veteran arcade owner Steve Epstein and newcomer Steve Zoller. Unlike the bars that housed the majority of the machines in the city, modern pinball was a space for all ages. They got enormous love and attention from the pinball community and media alike and their weekly tournaments drew consistent and solid attendance. Again, a lot of top players at the time.
    27:18
    And all these pictures, by the way, are courtesy of Philippe Wolak. And he takes good pictures. That's Steve's son.
    27:32
    Yeah. All the good photos are Philippe Wolak. All the mediocre photos are me. There we go. Okay, now, I don't know if everyone knows this story, but about 30 years ago, a pinball collector named Peter opened Sunshine Laundromat in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Initially, the business was exactly as the name suggests, a laundromat. Nevertheless, he would usually keep a few pinball machines inside for his patrons to play while waiting for their wash cycles to end. Given the growth of the local pinball community, in 2011, Peter started to slowly crowd his small laundromat with more and more pinball machines from his collection.
    28:16
    Do you see what's going on here? You have to walk behind machines. Do you see? Do you see the video game that's in the dryer to the right? That's a video game that you can play in the dryer. Like, this is ridiculous. Big Bang Bar, ready to play, and Terminator on top of the washers. Like, this is still just a laundromat, right? This is ridiculous, right? And it's all these A-list titles, and he's kind of blowing it up. So then, in 2016, Peter and his partner Mike opened Sunshine Pinball and Laundromat, combining the original business with a speakeasy pinball arcade and bar in the back. What is exceptional about this effort is that, given Peter's ridiculous collection of machines and willingness to put them on location, Sunshine quickly became one of the premier places on the planet to play pinball. With roughly 30 rotating titles that included A-list Williams and Bally titles, and super rare machines like Big Bang Bar, Big Lebowski, Supreme, Jersey Jacks, Pirates of the Caribbean, not to mention every Stern LE that was released, Sunshine quickly became the city's foremost location to play. That's the back room. There's our beloved... There's Theodore. Hi, Ted. and more. And it was like, it was uncomfortably crowded with pinball machines. Like kind of, that's Boris. We love Boris. Okay.
    29:50
    Several of the significant locations would open or embrace pinball for the first time during the 2010s. Each of these locations continued to raise the bar for what well-maintained location pinball meant. This in turn helped weed out poor operators and maintain pressure on Max and Al to keep up their machines in top working order. Now, what happens next is more competitive pinball.
    30:15
    So for a few years, maybe a couple of years, the only thing that was going on was a little bit of overlap with the Amsterdam League and the Team League. That overlapped for maybe a year. And then it was just the Team League for a couple of years. and then South Slope started their own thing. So modeled after the team league, in 2014 the South Slope League was formed. This hyper-local league would fill the summer and winter gaps when pinball in New York City was on hiatus and satisfied the appetite for pinball in what had quickly become the most densely populated pinball neighborhood in the city. While several people have helped manage the South Slope League, Since its inception, its success turned upward when our beloved Kate Martin took over the helm. Kate is so dedicated to pinball and organizing the league and tournaments alike that apparently she keeps a notebook with pages of notes on organizing competitions. Is that correct, Kate? Did I state that properly?
    31:29
    Yeah, she takes it seriously. Say, look, she's making trophies and putting medals around people's heads and smiles on people's faces. Yeah, we love that. We love that.
    31:44
    After captaining the pin babes in the Pinball New York City League for several seasons and regularly attending tournaments at Modern Pinball and around the country, Anna Wolk founded the New York City chapter of Bells and Chimes. With the express mission of creating a welcoming space for women to embrace pinball, Bells and Chimes quickly became a critical component in the growth of the New York City pinball community. With the help of J-Dang, Bells and Chimes launched their first tournament in 2016 with 24 participants. Since then, Kate Martin, Jess Warren have also joined the helm, And as a group, they've grown to become an essential force in the New York City pinball community.
    32:31
    It's like, I think that they're largely overlooked, but it's, I think, absolutely critical. You know, because the bells and chimes are just drawing in a population of people that are normally not drawn to competitive pinball. you know that's not 100% true but you know they've definitely I feel their impact all the time women are the fastest growing demographic so yeah see they got they know what they're doing and I and no doubt bells and chimes New York and San Francisco and all the other chapters are a big reason for that no doubt Okay, good old Greg Poverelli, Sunshine League. This is the point where we hope he doesn't walk in and see this photo. Okay, so Greg Poverelli's older brother, Chris, once told me that Greg had an obsessive personality. Perhaps this is the reason he's so fixated on pinball today. Greg joined his brother's pinball team early in the pinball New York City history, and it didn't take long before he became a very familiar face that was your Pantino was part of that team Pantino's fault it was Pantino's fault he never played pinball before he came to my house and played high speed and he took pretty much everything oh I don't know this story so wait wait so Pantino so Poveroli comes to your place to play your high speed but I'm not inaccurate I mean we know Greg he does have a bit of an obsessive personality right oh look at that hey it's my birthday tequila shots for everybody alright Do you want to repeat that? Well, I don't know. There's not much to tell other than that. He literally came over and was like, what is this?
    34:49
    And then I think he probably rolled over the satellite at the time and started playing pinball every other second.
    34:59
    That's why he's not in this room. That's why he's not in this room because he's playing pinball. You know what I remember, Mike? He was at 801.
    35:05
    Perfect. You know what I remember, Mike? I remember you bitching about his gameplay when he was on your team in the early days. He's just like, ah, Craig trained or whatever and crapped out. That's what I remember. But not so anymore.
    35:21
    He's one of the best, all right? So he gets, because of Mike's influence, he gets introduced to pinball. and it doesn't take long before he becomes a very familiar face in the competitive pinball scene, traveling around the world to take part in competitions. In 2016, he started a weekly Wednesday night league at Sunshine Lauderman. Sunshine's expansive high-end collection and the fact that Greg submitted results to the IFPA meant that he attracted the best players from throughout the tri-state area.
    35:56
    Okay. Next up are these guys. This is more of a recent thing going on. In 2017, Levy Naiman, Paul Karras, Austin Smith, and Tim Sexton embarked on a mission to elevate New York City's status in the global pinball community even higher. Together they envisioned an annual tournament not only worthy of its host city but also one where the city became part of the attraction for its participants In 2018 the New York City Pinball Championship was born As all four have extensive pinball tournament experience, they were on a mission to create a world-class event that rivals the best in the world. Okay, today. Today is an interesting, you know, we're in an interesting time because we just emerged from the pandemic and And, you know, the boat has been rocked a little bit. But we're, you know, I don't think I realized it until I embarked on this journey to put together this presentation that we're doing pretty well. You know, like it's like, you know, we're doing pretty well. And, you know, we'll touch on that. So as New York City continues to emerge from the darkest days of the pandemic, it is readily apparent that pinball continues to thrive in this great metropolis. The community has suffered some heavy losses recently, including modern pinball, sunshine laundromat, perhaps not permanently, but it hasn't been open for a little while, and most tragically, our beloved pinaholic, Alan Seahack. However, the New York City pinball community is strong and resilient, and despite the darkness of the long pandemic shutdown, it now seems stronger than ever. Well, once there was one or two nights a week of organized competition, today there are six or seven. New bars are embracing pinball for the first time, and many established locations are increasing their machine count as they've come to recognize the value of a stronger pinball presence.
    37:54
    New, smaller operators have stepped in to fill the void left from hours passing and to place machines in neighborhoods which had been completely ignored until recently. The efforts on the ground combined with Pinball's rising global status and popular culture have helped nurture and sustain a strong community.
    38:13
    Okay. I spent a few hours on the phone interviewing many people in preparation for this presentation. Now, I'm not going to lie, given all that I'm currently managing in my life,
    38:28
    although it may not seem it now, right? But putting together this talk caused me a great deal of stress. However, when I was on the phone with the likes of Kate or Jade or these guys over there, Ed and Steve, and when I was on the phone and we were just talking about pinball, there was no stress. It was pure joy to be listening to everyone's stories and geeking out on the game. And it was relief from all the other shit that's going on in my life. And it made me realize what I believe to be the key ingredient for not just New York City's resurgence, but just the kind of global picture here, and that is community. I think that the true joy of this game is in that we can share it with other people and we've got friends within this hobby be it competitive you're in the competitive arena or you're an operator and you just like operating or you're a collector or you just like fixing and repairing stuff the community is vast and there's lots of great opportunity there. And this sentiment was shared repeatedly while I was doing my research. When Steve Penza pestered John at Jack Bar to teach him a few things about maintaining machines, John ultimately did so, you know, and John's mentorship led Steve to become one of the city's newest operators. Ed Hurrigan, another new operator, spoke of how spending time with his teammates at their regular Monday night pinball in New York City matches has helped ground him while splitting time between the city and Vermont. He also spoke directly of the community, noting how magically generous and dedicated people are. Jade spoke of how she is attracted to the social aspect of competitive pinball. My pinball team is made up of people from all walks of life, and friendships have been made that would have been impossible if not for our shared love of the game. at Sunshine where good old Alberta used to bartend as humans we all need community and I believe that is this need more than any other force that is driving the growth in pinball in New York City and beyond and I mean that sincerely and when you look around the world and the world we live in right now and you think about what other people are latching on to with regard to community and their need for community and the negativity that that may draw, I am so thankful for pinball and the pinball community as a whole.
    41:28
    Oh, look at that. See, we all celebrated my birthday one year at one of the parties. And this is a nice photo. This is Lisa's tournament over at Solid State. And it's people from all over the place, you know. I think Bowen Kearns is here. You know, obviously Kate's here. People that, you know, never step into my bar. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, they're here for Lisa. You know, it's her birthday, and it's a celebration of her, and we miss her, and, you know, that's pinball.
    42:02
    Now, if you have any questions, that will conclude my presentation. I hope that that was okay. I didn't do that many ums and ahs, did I? No.
    42:17
    So I just want to say I hope that you can find a place for Central Massachusetts as your vacation spot once a year to welcome all the New York City people to come up here and have this big pinball event, this comprehensive event. Yeah, oh yeah, no, this is great. Yeah, very happy to be here. I'm very happy to be here like me personally Dave I'm a bit of an outlier I do my thing and I know people and I'm excited to know them but like no it's not anything in particular it's just I don't know my life is complicated part of the reason I still run the pinball in New York City I'm 52 years old and I go play pinball once a week. It's just because I need an excuse to get the hell out of the house and hang out with people that I would normally not see. But I don't really have room in my life for six nights a week of competition.
    43:22
    This is a two and a half hour drive which is fine but I envy the people that can travel and do stuff. But even still my buddy Philippe and I will troubleshoot machines at Solid State together and And it's awesome. It's just like, oh, we've got this in common. We're going to try to figure out what the hell is wrong with this machine and try to solve the problem. And I love that. And that's part of the community.
    43:51
    Comments? One up here. Oh, we got a mic? We got a roaming mic? Yeah. We got a roaming mic. Yeah. All right. Yeah.
    43:59
    Yeah.
    44:08
    You've got the rolling mic in that side. I saw it last night. We're recording it. Don't be difficult. How's that? I kind of feel that there's almost too much pinball in New York right now as far as like Monday night or something. And I find that the numbers have kind of, I don't know if they plateaued, but I feel like there's definitely too many nights available and now you see less people on Monday night. You see a lot of people Tuesday. Is it too much? My problem is that it depends on what people are playing handball for. Because if you're Greg, you want to do every tournament that you can that's different stuff. But for me, I'm like, I do believe to hang out with my buddies and drink and have a reason to go out that isn't, I don't know, vexing. and like if you care more about your IFPA reading versus just having fun and dollar games and whatever like and you find out like there's a lot of crossover but there's a huge split of people that are like I couldn't get a single word I shouldn't say like about you know and I'm like I'm somewhere in the middle rankings are fine but also like dollar games are better Well, while you're here, you could compare notes. I was just betting dollars. I was like, do I have to explain the dollar part or the games part? You could compare notes with the New England Pinball League people, many of whom are right across the hall there. I know not of really how the New England Pinball League runs. It's very geographically dispersed. So I'm in the Chicago Pinball, one of the Chicago land pinball leagues that's you know people as far south as Plainfield, Illinois and people as far north as I call them like Illinois two hour drives and it's all once a month out of people's houses and it's like more of a party league than anything else and and almost everyone that hosts has a pool so that's really cool but like that I think is probably a similar idea is like we're competitive we show up we play we do well or we don't you get fed you have drinks you'd be like but I do that because it's like people I'm friends with that want to play pinball.
    46:33
    Oh, look, there's a white ball. And maybe I get to swim in a pool afterwards. Like at that, you know, and I go to a lot of tournaments. I travel probably the most of anyone in this room. And I just do it because I'm like, wow. Well, I mean, that said, Caden, I think that you're on point with a lot of things. But I will say that I have had the same thought that Mike has had. Like I am fearful. I have seen, it's not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing, but I think in the end, you know, there were a lot of players that would play, you know, once a week and then, you know, pinball NYC league, then they play at, you know, Greg's tournament on Wednesdays, and that would be the end of it, right? And now life doesn't really allow them to do that and the other three tournaments. and so then now it's a bit more, they're spreading out and they're picking and choosing. I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing, right? Like I think it's, but what has to continue to happen is that new people have to be brought back, keep bringing in. If we're not bringing people in, eventually people are going to peter out. You know, life doesn't allow for it all the time, right? A lot of people that were in the league in the early days are not in the league now because they have kids, they got married, you know? Like it's like they just don't have the opportunity to do that level of social thing. Same with the New England league. Sure, it is. I saw Monday night players who were like, I have kids now, I can't do it. Yeah. I'll also say the Monday night thing is that, you know, two teams have won it most of the times ever, Michael, and people get a little defeated being like, okay, so we're just going to lose to the terrorists or lose to the mutants. Yeah, that's, yeah, I mean, whatever. Let's not get into that because that's a whole can of worms. But okay, that's fine. I don't disagree with you. I definitely don't disagree with you.
    48:36
    You know, the only concern I have, Hi, Kate. I'm cute, I'm funny, I'm fine. You're all great. As are you. The only other thing I would say is that, you know, like I was a little bit, you know, concerned about the situation when Al passed away because Al was in exceptional circumstances because his life allowed him to be a full-time operator. And that's not really a thing anymore, right? I mean, in New York City, to be a full-time operator and live in New York City, maybe if you're operating slot machines you can do it I don't know how you make that kind of money and sustain life so when Al passed away his reach was so broad it was frightening to think what the hell is going to happen now but what I'm seeing now is smaller operators at one point I talked about this it was kind of like a cartel It was either Max or Al, right? They had their neighborhoods, and they rarely kind of crossed over. And it was like, okay, Max has got this part of town, and Al's got this part of town, and all that. But now it's like smaller operators, lower workload, more attention being spent on the machines.
    50:05
    And it's more kind of a realistic thing with regard to lifestyles. because again, Al had an exceptional lifestyle that allowed him to be an operator full time, but that's not true for most people incredibly difficult in the city but I'm encouraged the likes of Steve and Ed here take it on new locations other locations that have been just got machines ripped out of their bars because Al's family doesn't want to deal with pinball whatever that's their business I don't care it's fine I mean literally getting phone calls saying like uh yeah tomorrow they're coming to pick up all their machines and you know there's no saying it they're just gone you know and so like people stepped up and that's encouraging so I didn't even know that until recently the two of you Get out of here. No, that's not true.
    51:16
    Really? Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, see? I hope you like each other. Check? Sorry. Quick question. We live in eastern Canada, and we go to New York City typically once a year. And when we go, a big part of it is trying to find pinball places. So when we finally went back last December after the pandemic, a couple of places we used to go, it closed down. Obviously, Modern Pinball, Two Bits down in the East Village. But I was wondering if there's any sort of a central resource that we can look at now as far as when we're traveling, other than going to each place's Facebook page and find out when they're open. Because we went to Jack Bar when we were there in December, and it was great but we got there and there was a tournament going on so that means and it's a weekly tournament so it didn't make any sense for us to join into that tournament and then when we so some of the machines are being used and everybody there was very nice about it they weren't you know they totally said hey if we're not using it go ahead and use it and that sort of thing is there any sort of a resource for people visiting New York City it's a good question I think you touched on a couple of things. Finding the locations shouldn't be too difficult. Either the Pinball map or the Pinball NYC map or website taps in. I happen to like the interface of my website better than Pinball map, but it pretty much works the same. It's the same data. That's location data and machine data and some quality stuff. But you can see things visually. but you know when things started when I started doing things again when things were you know I was whatever I was single I was freelance I had way too much time on my hands I was bright eyed and bushy tailed and I thought okay this website that I created is going to be everything pinball in the city it's completely unsustainable like I can't devote all my life to that so So at the beginning and up for a long time, events and other people's events would get posted on the website and you would get to see that. But that's kind of fallen away. And so now things go on in the city pretty regularly. And I'm like, really? No one told me that. I didn't know that was going on. And so it is not decentralized. However, I have recently started to visit this problem in an effort to try to solve it because it's definitely solvable. I don't know what the exact solution is going to be. I think everyone's kind of doing their own things. There's Bells and Chimes. There's got a Facebook page. They're doing one thing. Greg's running a tournament on Wednesday nights, and Gabe's running a tournament on Thursdays. I run a league two nights a week, and there's all this location data and all this. and it's kind of silly it really should be one place so the short answer is no but maybe next year come back keep an eye out if such a thing manifests itself it will definitely be posted on the Pinball NYC site At least that much I'll do. Even if it's not the source of the information. I don't really care. It's not really, this isn't an ego thing. It's just like,
    54:52
    but it's a problem that needs to be solved. So we're going to try to get heads together and figure that out. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, both.
    55:01
    But you present it in a way that I hadn't really thought of, which is to say that it's event data attached to location. So you're searching a location and then you see the event, which is different than looking for events. And so that's actually, it's a nuanced difference, but it's an important difference. Because if you're not looking at a list of events, you may otherwise not know that Jack Ball had an event that night. So that's an interesting problem. I like that. We'll give you some thought.
    55:34
    That goes back to the early days of RGP. People would ask that exact query. I am going to name a city on date where the good place is to play pinball.
    55:47
    Not necessarily wanting to get into a tournament or anything, but just this is the night I'm going to have free. What can I do?
    55:58
    And that was semi-solved just by it being a forum. So people can answer back. So that might be it. Yeah, I mean, I think the big problem is that there's too many solutions right now. And so therefore, that doesn't really amount to much. Because it's too many. So RGB was like, okay, that was it. And that made sense. but now everyone's just sort of doing their own thing. If you, you know, the next time you go, you should just bar hop in South Slope. There's like, I don't know, nine bars within walking distance. Where's South Slope? South Slope is in Brooklyn.
    56:37
    It's Fifth Avenue and Ninth Street. And if you look at the map, if you zoom in on the map in this part of Brooklyn, there's just a bunch of red dots because the red dots are showing you that there's just a concentration of bimbo. I mean, it's a little bit of a trek from Manhattan, but whatever. You're from Canada. You could take a trek. You're good. We used to travel. Yeah, there you go. We get meant for bird. Yeah, there you go.
    57:05
    Anything else? Anyone want to say anything about Al? Oh, let's go. So we should leave me behind and start talking about Al. I'm going to tell you a story about Al. I'm going to get things started, because Al and I had an interesting relationship because we were friends, but not in the let's go and hang out kind of thing. We were friends because of the shared community. And early on, because I had started this league and it was giving his machines all this love, he loved me in return, right? and one day I have this I played at a bar I still do it called the Kettle of Fish in the West Village and they had one pinball machine at the Kettle of Fish and I said to and it was always wonky it was always something going on and I don't really know how to deal with pinball at the time and it turns out the operator had owned one pinball machine and it was at the Kettle of Fish so they didn't know how to deal with pinball problems and so I asked Al, I said Al Hey, man, can you help us out?
    58:18
    And Big Hearted Owl says yes. And I was asking, thinking to myself that this might lead him to take over the location.
    58:28
    But what he, I don't know, he probably talked to like Eddie Kramer or somebody. I don't know who he talked to. But somewhere between him saying yes and showing up at the kettle of fish that afternoon, someone had basically told him, what the fuck are you doing? you're going to help another operator out? don't help another operator out, what good is that? you're not going to do that so Al comes in and he's kind of pissy but being the nice guy that he is he helps out so he's helping out and then he's bitching about helping out and then he's helping out and he's giving this young guy all this advice he's like, oh you've got to do this because I can't believe I'm doing this, what am I doing here? the owner of the bar had to walk away because he was getting so upset with Al and I'm like, Al listen, always keep the manual and the tools in the glove box and what am I doing here? Why am I here? Like this isn't, like I don't know what I'm doing. But Al was like, you know, fighting demons at the same time as, you know, being the nice guy that he was. And he helped out and, you know, and once I, we still played pinball there. So it was kind of a fun, kind of a fun afternoon. And I remember him saying to me one day, we all know he had MS. and he always struggled for as long as I've known him, but he was doing all right at the time. And he bitched about his MS and the struggle he was going through. And I just turned to him and I said, you're doing all right.
    59:57
    And he said, yeah, I'm doing all right. Because I recognized at the time, going out and being physical with pinball machines was only helping him. As much as it was difficult for him, it was only helping him. Because the opposite of that is you sit on your ass and you do nothing, and you degrade a lot faster. So I wasn't going to let him throw MS in my face because he's out fixing pinball machines. I'm like, no, you're doing fine. You'll be all right.
    60:29
    I've got plenty of physical complaints. But whatever, I'll be all right. Anyway, that's my owl story. Who's next? I want an owl story. Come on, Pantino, you got an owl story?
    60:45
    I mean, without Al, frankly, there would not really be much of a pinball scene, I think, in New York. Especially, what was it, like 2010, when he kind of really started to push through? Oh, yeah. And I didn't even know. I remember going into Satellite Lounge one time, one night late, and I had no idea about competitive pinball at all. I didn't even know it existed. I was actually with Paparelli's brother, Little Chris, and the other Little Chris, because you're also with us. That's another story.
    61:25
    But yeah, I went there, we played some pinball, and then all of a sudden Francesco was there, and he was like looming a little closer to me than I'd like him to. He's like, you come tomorrow. You're a good player. You play a tournament tomorrow. I'm like, what is this guy talking about? Tournament? Does it involve tournaments? And I went the next day, and I met all these amazing people, Al and I think Dahlia and Eddie and Steve Bowden, Coy. Like everyone seemed to be at that tournament. There's a great picture of that tournament in front of Satellite Lounge when I think there was about maybe 40 of us there. But Al really brought that. It was really a big part of bringing all those people together. And fast forward until now, it's 12 years later. It feels like a blink. And it went from a couple of places to now. It's like I could walk out of my house and there's a million places to play pinball. And, you know, you're bringing the league to all the places that Owl's Machines is in. It just turned into this great community. Now everyone, you know, a lot of people in this room over here just love each other and it's really amazing. Female Speaker 1 I love it. Male Speaker 2 I just came to my room. Female Speaker 1 Welcome. Female Speaker 2 I need a firecracker. Male Speaker 2 I will say that I glossed over Sunlight Lounge, But you're right. I mean, those were all Al's Machines. And it was a big deal because at the time, to have a bar in New York City with more than two? I mean, nobody had any more than two.
    63:05
    No shit. All right. Al's Machines. Al's Machines, yeah. I was there like every time I went there, I think. Nine out of ten times I was at SLA I don't think Al was there.
    63:18
    He wasn't ever working on machines. He wasn't really working on machines most of the time. But he was there all the time. He was always there. I'm a former operator, and I can say that's a good operator who goes to their location more than the collection day. Yeah, no. It was great meeting him. That was part of my entry into the whole scene and whatever it was, meeting Al in 2009, I think. Or satellite at Fratelli's. Oh, Fratelli's. Were you there? No, Fratelli's. I played at Fratelli's one. That was after satellite launch. It might have been a little bit after. Yeah, I think it's a little bit after. Because I think the end of 2010 was when that satellite one happened, which was shortly after then, Fratelli. I was smart because he sought places that would take a lot of machines. He had a lot of machines. And so like Creek and Cave became one of those places. He threw like eight machines there. Satellite Lounge was what I think peaked at like seven, maybe eight. And then Fratelli's. Fratelli's didn't work out. There were signs on the machines that said no pizza, no pinball. Yeah. Yeah, they were not.
    64:49
    Yeah, they didn't have a good relationship with pinball. Yeah, I played Al. There's got to be a name for this game. It was me, Al, and Ed Rojas. in Fratellis, and we would put down, we'd ante up a dollar at the beginning of a game, and then after every ball, you could either fold and walk away from that dollar, or you can throw another dollar in and play the next ball.
    65:24
    Yeah, whatever the hell it is, whatever it's called, but it's my favorite form of pinball gambling. and that is and that was with Al I just want to say that Al along with Dahlia and Eddie really while the Orange County pinball scene in New York was happening they brought a lot of like Al's influence is felt there I mean Brian Estes worked with Al Mike Ford and just Al's reach was wide yeah Al had a big reach he would come by his machines were in Orange County Pinball and we all loved him he would come to killers parties and stuff like that he was known even upstate oh yeah he came to Pinball Expo in Chicago yeah and I want to mention Dahlia too because Dahlia was a big part of that too. I was awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I don't think any one person knows how many machines Al had. I don't think Al ever knew.
    66:56
    That's I mean, if you think about it, when he's telling that story in 2015 at Expo, he can't even keep track. He's like, oh yeah, I got these two, and then I must have picked up a few others, and then I did 11 here, and I did five here. And this is probably over a span of, I don't know, three weeks or something. He was just buying shit up. And honestly, too, this is one of the things that I was thinking about as well with Al and I think eggs in that boat, too. If you're trying to be an operator in this day and age and that's your business and you're spending $9,000 on a machine, right? $8,000, $9,000 a machine.
    67:47
    I'm not sure you're a very good business person. but that's not what like Al was not that Al wasn't doing it for that I mean Al appreciated the money and kept the sale Al just loved pinball like it was just passion above anything else you know and you know I own a bar that's still struggling to come out of the pandemic but that didn't stop me from dropping $9,000 on a pinball machine two weeks ago it doesn't make any sense but I'm just like I have to have that damn machine and I have to share it with people that's not that damn Godzilla I am happy with it so it's cool but yeah the he'd get every damn LE like Avengers LE nobody likes that game and it's green and the bar hated it because it was green. And like take that, you know, Zablosky's had it first. And they threw the machine out.
    68:55
    But without Ali, you'd never have LEs on location. You'd never have LEs on location. No, absolutely. Al can spend fucking 15,000 dollars on a Batman 66. And the next day on Facebook, he puts out how he had a big club concert at Catalyst Fish. He was so like, great. Right. He's got a big... A big 500. Yeah, no. I don't have such an influence. Oh, we got to get... You're going to get video of that? Yeah. Wheel that over. Mike, wheel that over. That's got to be wheeled over. Tell them what that is. Yeah, that's a story, Mike. You got to put that on. Get that on.
    69:37
    He was our... Yeah. For what? J-pop. Yeah. This is early, early before, way before Deep Root. This is way before Deep Root. This is his company that he was trying to start up. Right. He had Eddie Kramer and Al and Artwork. They were the . Like, you have their Yeah.
    70:19
    You got to keep an eye on that thing, man. I'm going to steal it. That looks fantastic. Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
    70:36
    Oh yeah. Right, yeah. Jay Pop would put him in the game and we think, we don't know, we think that's the penmanship of Zombie Yeti.
    70:49
    Because he did the artwork for Magic Girl in pre-Stern days and he was, you know, Papa Duke was working, you know, whatever. I want a copy. Yeah.
    71:26
    Keep me posted. I want one. And let's not tell Zombie Yeti about this. or Papa Duke yeah that's it probably yeah I'm glad we didn't forget about our zombie owl yeah that's pretty awesome
    72:00
    I saw someone else All right, well, thanks, everybody. Thank you, Dave. Good send-off for Al and good update on America's largest metropolis.
    72:31
    Thank you.