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Episode 150 - There Goes Tokyo

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 1m·analyzed·Sep 19, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Stern's Godzilla impresses mechanically but steep pricing ($6,900-$10,500) worries community affordability.

Summary

On episode 150 of Eclectic Gamers Podcast, hosts Dennis and Tony discuss Stern Pinball new Godzilla machine, featuring Keith Elwin design with significant mechanical differences between Pro/Premium/LE tiers, including a collapsing bridge ramp and moving skyscraper mech exclusive to higher models. They analyze the game's features, art direction by Zombie Yeti, and substantial price increases ($700-$1,300 across all models compared to Mandalorian), raising concerns about market accessibility despite positive gameplay impressions.

Key Claims

  • Godzilla Pro is $6,900 (up $700 from Mandalorian), Premium is $9,000 (up $1,200), LE is $10,500 (up $1,300)

    high confidence · Dennis explicitly states MSRP pricing; consistent with distributor confirmation from Zach Minney on prior Pinball Show episode

  • Godzilla is the first Stern game where all models ship with Stern Insider Connected standard

    high confidence · Dennis: 'this is the first game where all of the models are coming out with Stern Insider Connected'

  • Godzilla LE production is 1,000 units compared to Mandalorian's 750 units

    high confidence · Dennis states production numbers explicitly

  • Keith Elwin used a scoop for the first time in a game design on Godzilla, despite stating publicly that scoops are one of his least favorite features

    high confidence · Dennis: 'it's the first time he's ever done a scoop which I think has surprised people because Keith has been pretty public that scoops are one of his least favorite features'

  • Rick Nagel is the programmer who implements Keith Elwin's rule designs for Godzilla

    high confidence · Dennis identifies Rick Nagel as 'the programmer who implements Keith's rules' during gameplay commentary

  • Zombie Yeti received defensive pushback on Godzilla art direction and reportedly claims he tried a more film-accurate approach that 'didn't look good'

    medium confidence · Dennis: 'he's been a bit defensive about it' and 'supposedly he had claimed that he had tried to do it more like the actual films and it didn't look good' (secondhand account)

  • Stern implemented $300 immediate price increases on non-Godzilla Spike 2 games, with remaining games matching Godzilla pricing as of January 1

    high confidence · Dennis cites Zach Minney (distributor): 'what Stern told him as a distributor is effective immediately. All of the Stern games being made that are not Godzilla have a $300 price increase'

  • Mothra serves as the shoot-again target on Godzilla, positioned between the flippers with her eyes as the feature

Notable Quotes

  • “It's got Jet Jaguar on it. That makes me happy as a Godzilla fan.”

    Tony — Confirms inclusion of Jet Jaguar character as appreciated detail for Godzilla enthusiasts

  • “There are 52 cars nearby that are cheaper at Carvana than an LE Godzilla.”

    Tony — Stark comparison illustrating the accessibility barrier created by $10,500 LE pricing

  • “I think it would have gone over better on Mando. Because of the sheer popularity of the show currently, that a lot more people wouldn't have cared about it as much. Where the old school Godzilla theme is going to have a much more niche market.”

    Tony — Analysis of how theme-driven pricing acceptance differs; Mandalorian's cultural relevance would have cushioned sticker shock better than niche Showa-era Godzilla appeal

  • “The only thing is, we're going to stick us with another price increase. That affects everything.”

    Tony — Concern about cumulative pricing effect across entire Stern lineup, not isolated to Godzilla

  • “I think what they did was was the right move it's not my ideal i still think it looks great i don't buy games off of art anyway though so that's in a way that's moot”

    Dennis — Concession that while art direction (oversaturation) deviates from preferences, practical buying decisions override aesthetic concerns

  • “The Newton ball magnet seemed to get a lot of use. I believe during the part I watched, the bridge was never destroyed by anyone.”

    Dennis — Observation of gameplay balance and feature usage patterns; Newton ball proves more integral than collapsing bridge toy

  • “You don't disrespect Akira. You put his stuff in because it's awesome.”

    Dennis — Appreciation for inclusion of Akira Ifukube's Godzilla theme music as appropriate musical choice honoring composer legacy

  • “Godzilla people don't say no to pretty much anything. Or they'll say a lot of no and then they'll buy it anyway.”

    Tony — Observation of pinball collector behavior patterns; reluctance often overcome by impulse to acquire despite price objections

Entities

Keith ElwinpersonZombie Yeti (Jeremy Packer)personStern PinballcompanyGodzillagameRick NagelpersonJack DangerpersonTanya ClicepersonZach Minneyperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern increased LE production from 750 units (Mandalorian) to 1,000 units (Godzilla) despite less popular theme, suggesting confidence in institutional demand or attempt to meet distributor/operator allocations before price increases take effect.

    high · Dennis: 'Mandalorian was 750 units of LE. This is 1,000 units of LE. Wow. For a license that I think... Showa-era Godzilla is not as popular today as Mandalorian is.'

  • ?

    community_signal: LE Godzillas sold out immediately despite higher pricing ($10,500) and niche Showa-era theme. Suggests strong institutional demand (distributor/operator purchases) overrides general market accessibility concerns, though secondary market implications unclear.

    high · Dennis: 'the LE Godzillas are sold out anyway' within days/weeks of announcement

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Godzilla gameplay demonstrates balanced plunge design with potential for aggressive play (Keith achieved ~6 minute ball time) but vulnerability to outlanes (multiple plunge losses observed). Loop shot appears reliably achievable, suggesting accessible combo building for newer players despite overall game difficulty.

    medium · Dennis observation of test gameplay: 'Even Keith got screwed on one of his own plunges... the loop shot it doesn't seem like warp ramp type it seems pretty it seems pretty easy to loop'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Zombie Yeti's oversaturated comic-book art direction on Godzilla diverges from fan preferences for muted/authentic Showa-era aesthetic. Dennis criticizes the Marvel-style color approach as overblown pop rather than appropriate tone for 1960s kaiju films, citing artist Matt Frank as tonal alternative.

    high · Dennis: 'I'm not a fan of the approach on the art that Zombie Yeti took on this... I think it looks a little too Marvel comic for me' and 'I think what they did was was the right move it's not my ideal'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.185

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, September 19th. It's episode 150. Oh. And for our very special episode 150, we're not doing anything. Nope. It's a pretty normal episode. It's an episode. It's not even got a whole lot going on. It's not. We're not reaching for content, but we also aren't saturated. Like, I think we've been for five or six episodes. It's been pretty heavy. So, I mean, guys, Stern fans, calm down. We're going to talk about Godzilla. We're not saying that there wasn't any major news. We didn't have like two announcements in the same two-week period. There wasn't like two announcements. The SEC hasn't filed against anybody else. There's not been too much crazy. Yeah. Yeah, basically, it's just limited crazy is really what it's about. I'm Dennis. And so what's going on? Intros. What's been going on? You start a new game?
1:18
You start an old game? Did I? You talked about maybe going back and doing Civilization with the DLC. I did talk about that. And I started a match and, you know, I didn't start on deity, but I started it a little below deity, but apparently not far enough below deity because the match lasted about an hour and I was raffle stop. And I haven't gone back to that yet. I actually have spent most of this week reading when I've not been working or doing stuff with the family. Because we're at the point where we're having multiple cross-country meets a week and cheerleading.
2:01
It's sports season. It's sports season, and things have been kind of busy. So, I mean, I've played a little bit of Final Fantasy. I played a little bit of Surviving Mars. and I installed or reinstalled, I should say, Transport Fever 2 and I haven't had a chance to try it. They did a series of big updates. I was considering reinstalling No Man's Sky now that they put even more updates out, but I figured every time they put updates out, I install No Man's Sky and I play it for a couple hours going, man, this game's gotten a lot better than it was. All right, delete.

high confidence · Dennis: 'between the flippers is mothra and the shoot again in her eyes'

  • The LE Godzillas are already sold out

    high confidence · Dennis: 'the LE Godzillas are sold out anyway' in response to Tony's Carvana comparison

  • 403 Club in Kansas City is getting a Premium Godzilla with expected November build date

    high confidence · Dennis: 'I did read last night uh confirmation that 403 club in kansas city is getting a premium so just a question of when i believe uh zach noted that the premiums, I think they're November builds'

    • Mandalorian
    game
    Stern Insider Connectedproduct
    Jeff Parsonsperson
    Dennisperson
    Tonyperson
    Pizza Westevent
    Pinball Showevent
    This Week in Pinballorganization
    Deep Rootcompany
    403 Clubvenue
    Matt Frankperson
    Rick and Mortygame
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Godzilla includes subtle design tributes: Mothra positioned as shoot-again target between flippers with her eyes, reflecting mythology that Mothra consistently resurrects after death through egg-laying. Art department (Jeremy Packer) intentionally embedded pinball history references including Papa facility carpeting, Twippy award, and possible Gary Stern integration.

    high · Dennis: 'between the flippers is mothra and the shoot again in her eyes... mothra dies a lot a lot and but if she's laid an egg she comes back... she's the queen of the monsters has a way of enduring' and acknowledgment of Papa facility carpeting easter egg on skyscraper

  • ?

    community_signal: Zombie Yeti (Jeremy Packer) created art for Godzilla; became defensive about oversaturated color direction choice when community pushback occurred, claiming he attempted more film-accurate approach that 'didn't look good' (secondhand report).

    medium · Dennis: 'he's been a bit defensive about it... supposedly he had claimed that he had tried to do it more like the actual films and it didn't look good'

  • $

    market_signal: Godzilla pricing ($6,900-$10,500) represents $700-$1,300 increase over Mandalorian; broader $300 immediate increase on other Stern Spike 2 games with full alignment by January 1. Hosts express serious concern that cumulative pricing increases (exceeding inflation rate) create barriers to entry and may harm market accessibility.

    high · Dennis: 'Pricing is up significantly now... The Pro is $6,900. That's a $700 increase from the prior game, Mandalorian.' Tony: 'There are 52 cars nearby that are cheaper at Carvana than an LE Godzilla' and 'a price increase of this amount I think would have gone over better on Mando'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Godzilla strategically differentiates Pro/Premium/LE tiers through exclusive mechanical features: collapsing bridge ramp, moving skyscraper mech with diverters/ball lock, sculpted Mechagodzilla with magnet/shield targets, and interactive Godzilla sculpt (vs flat plastic on Pro). Newton ball magnet appears standard across all tiers.

    high · Dennis details feature distribution: 'Premium and LE versions have a ramp that's a collapsing bridge ramp... The Skyscraper is actually a mech that moves up and down... Mechagodzilla on the Premium and LE is a sculpt. It's a flat plastic on the Pro.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Godzilla introduces Newton ball magnet (appearing in both versions), described as novel mechanic not previously seen in pinball. Magnet engages ball from five different shots and feeds to upper flipper, demonstrating frequent play use during test gameplay.

    high · Dennis: 'there's a newton ball a Newton ball magnet... it's supposed to be able to grab the ball from five different shots' and 'That Newton ball magnet gets used a lot. It was constantly in play.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern implementing Stern Insider Connected as standard on all Godzilla models (Pro/Premium/LE) at factory; this is first game with universal platform integration. All Spike 2 games are backward-upgradable to this standard.

    high · Dennis: 'this is the first game where all of the models are coming out with Stern Insider Connected... all the Spike 2 games as we noted in the last episode will be upgradable'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Keith Elwin reportedly claimed (secondhand) that his next upcoming game would be easier to understand compared to Iron Maiden, with rule set comparable to Jurassic Park's more intuitive design. Godzilla appears to validate this direction with straightforward city selection/kaiju pair-ups mechanic.

    medium · Dennis: 'Keith had said his next upcoming game, this was before Godzilla was announced was going to be easier to understand I guess he compared it more in the vein of Iron Maiden' and observation that Godzilla gameplay 'seemed really intuitive and make a lot of sense to me'

    • 2:46
    It's just about the comparison. But mainly I've been reading and just doing stuff around the house. I said I've had stuff almost to the point where my only chill times have been the last 45 minutes before I go to sleep at night. So I've just been reading. That makes sense. Well, I did finally finish Gears 5. I would say I'm proud of myself that it took me long enough. So I got through that. And I've started playing an investigative puzzle game called Sherlock Holmes Crimes and Punishments. And I'm actually almost done with it. I think I'm on ready to start the last investigation. Because you know Sherlock Holmes is the world's second greatest detective, the first being Batman.
    3:39
    What about Columbo? I don't know. Maybe he's third? Just one more thing. So it's a Sherlock Holmes game that's not one of those puzzle find games? The hidden picture games. Right, right, right. No. No, you actually walk around, you interview people, you examine them, you investigate crime scenes, and you have to put the deduction. You can actually get the solutions wrong. Oh, that's cool. You could actually sentence someone to death who didn't do it. Fun. If you miss, you got to Sherlock, you got to sure your lock. That's how it works. So anyway, yeah, that's been interesting. And then we were both at the Pizza West monthly tournament yesterday. There was pinballs played. There was. I think you got further than you did the prior tournament. And I got further than the prior tournament. So that was fun. So, yeah, I think according to the match play, because we did a – it was four strike again. I believe I got sixth based off of my – based off of what I saw this morning. So there was – it was tight. When I left, there were people, you know, who didn't have very many strikes, and they weren't the ones who won. So there were comebacks and tears shed. No, there's no crying in pinball. There are rules. There's tons of crying in pinball. No. I've seen all the crying in pinball. Let's see. Where did I finish? I think you were tied for 13th. Standings.
    5:10
    Yes, 13th. So, yeah, we were, people, because it's sort of like the Swiss match style and you're kept with people who are of similar strikes, you know, it was a lot of people lasted a really long time. So you just all of a sudden you get these little chunks of people finally falling out. I almost put you out. We were both sitting at three strikes. Yeah, what game was that? That was on Turtles. Turtles is what ended me. And I went from over a million behind you to within 50,000.
    5:43
    I decided to hit one more shot. On Turtles, one more shot is not always a gimme. Yeah. So let's go ahead and we'll use that to transition to our pinball segment. I will note that I did invite people to write in and tell us if we should just stop now that we're at 150, and no one did. Well, that's good. We did have people write in to us. Actually, either write in to us or write in. I had a few people contact me directly.
    6:12
    Most of the feedback was about our discussion on This Week in Pinball and more stuff about the Federal Trade Commission on the last episode. Almost all the feedback was positive. Well, that's good. who either liked what we said or just thought we spent time going through it.
    6:28
    There was one notation on Pinside that I want to go ahead and note here where they did point out that Jeff with This Week in Pinball did put on some of the YouTube videos at the very front of them that they were sponsored by Deep Root. And I wanted to clarify on here that we, you and I, were only talking about the website articles because we didn't watch the YouTube videos. I didn't even know there were YouTube videos. I knew there were YouTube videos. I only ever saw the first one. But as of like October 2020, I guess Deep Root was sponsoring the videos. And those seem to be, in my judgment, my non-lawyer judgment, properly declared for the videos. But that's separate from what you still need to do on the website. Correct. So just as an FYI. Not very many people do mixed media like that. you know, have a podcast, have a YouTube, have a, have a website, and they're all under the same umbrella entity. So it makes it more complicated, but, uh, we did also get an email from another podcaster, Jeff Parsons over with, uh, the pinball players podcast. And I'm going to read it aloud here. Cause some of this, uh, will relate to you, Tony. And I figured we'd just address it here rather than, uh, you know, me do a, have you do an email reply. Cause I'm not sure there was anything necessarily to reply to cause it was mostly info, but here's what Jeff wrote, Hey guys, great episode as always. Your show is one of the few I can't miss on my list of podcasts. Thanks for the quote smooth velvety tones, end quote, shout out. Not sure I fall into that category as well as others do, but I'll take the compliment. There are three Rick and Morty machines within driving distance of me, and every time I play them, I can never get the Roy mode I voiced to come up. It's like the machine knows it's me. You were discussing required radio identification during the episode as a comparison to content creators disclosing paid sponsorships. That radio identification is called the legal ID, which the FCC mandates must happen once an hour as closely as possible to the top of the hour and must include the station call letters and city of license. All our audio is run by computer and it will play the legal ID as soon as the song playing at 58 minutes, 30 seconds ends. Our legal ID is WJBQ Portland, which is included in an ID that has positioning statements that people can more easily recognize because our call letters are seldom used in favor of our branding of Q97.9. We launched in 1996 when the internet was just going mainstream, so our owner at the time decided to use dot rather than point. And Tony, I too let my ham license expire 10 years ago. It was fun for the 10 years prior, but fewer and fewer people were doing it, so I let it go. My call was K1PIR, a vanity call sign because I'm such a big Price is Right fan. I still have my hand held packed in a box somewhere, but I sold my HF rig. A fellow morning show host in a market north of ours was also a ham, and we chat each morning on our drives to work. Probably more info here than you care to know, but I just felt like sharing. Keep up the great work. Jeff, not to be confused with Tealess, Patterson, or Rivera Parsons. So many Jeffs. There are. There are so many GIFs. You want to be a big hit in pinball, you've got to go GIF. I'm not going GIF. GIF is like the GIF of – it's like peanut butter. It's not going to do it. It's pinball. Not going to do it. A thousand points of light. A thousand points of pinball light. A thousand RGB LEDs. And much like GIF, that was actually – I got into ham originally because I was working with multiple hams. and they were going to go get upgrades to the licenses once and I just went with them and got mine, just my general. And it was fun for a while. I had it set up in my car or in my van and everything. I still have my, oh, do I still have it? I do. I still have a two-meter rig in the house packed up in the garage somewhere after I took it all down. But I just let everything – it got to the point where I realized I hadn't turned it on in like two years. And I was like, nah, I'm good.
    10:41
    My knowledge of ham only really extends to Cuban sandwiches. That's about it. Nothing wrong with a good Cuban sandwich. Nothing wrong. Other than for me to properly do it, it's like an all-day, you know, to roast the pork. Yep. I just don't. But it's worth it. But when we were roommates, I used to make them. We did do it. You did make them on occasion. So let's now make our way over to what it's like to make a new pinball machine. And that means, of course, we've got to talk about the latest game from Stern Pinball, which is Godzilla. I do have a link in the show notes to Stern Pinball's Facebook announcement about the game. There's a lot of really summarized, condensed information there. And you can go to the Stern Pinball website for more details should you want. just for those that don't know this is a Keith Elwin game he designed it he also is the lead on the rules behind it though he's not the programmer on it and then the art package was Zombie Yeti aka Jeremy Packer who put that together it's a three flipper game which not atypical for Keith I would describe it as a pretty high flow game he does have a scoop on this it's the first time he's ever done a scoop which I think has surprised people because Keith has been pretty public that scoops are one of his least favorite features, but he's using that to allow you to select the cities and such. I think the main thing to note when it comes to Stern Pinball games is what's the difference on the Pro model versus the Premium and LE models? And art packages aside, in terms of features, I would say from looking at it, reviewing the list of features and what I could see, The most notable differences are the Premium and LE versions have a ramp that's a collapsing bridge ramp, so it can fall down and drop back onto the playfield rather than continuing the ramp shot. That's absent on the Pro. The Skyscraper toy is on both versions. However, on the Premium and LE version, the Skyscraper is actually a mech that moves up and down. And for those of you who are familiar with 90s pinball machines, think the Doctor Who toy on the Doctor Who pinball machine. In this case, depending what level of the skyscraper is aligned with the ramps which pass through it, there are diverters on the different floors. So where the ball goes will depend what level of the skyscraper is accessible. And then there is a physical ball lock on the roof of the skyscraper. And then when it's time for the Godzilla multi-ball to start, the skyscraper crumbles to the ground and the balls roll off of the roof, which is, you know, it's pretty cool visually. Another difference is the Mechagodzilla. Mechagodzilla on the Premium and LE is a sculpt. It's a flat plastic on the Pro. And the sculpted version has a magnet in Mechagodzilla's chest. And there is actually a rotating stand-up target bank in front of him that functions. you have to take his shields down before you can shoot the ball to him. And there's a spinner shot. There's a spinner shot on the Pro as well, but on the Premium, the ball ramps up and then gets stuck in his tummy magnet. The magnet sticks the ball there. So there's that. And then as I noted about the Mechagodzilla being a plastic, or excuse me, yes, a flat plastic on the Pro, the pro Godzilla in the upper left is a flat plastic and that's an actual non-interactive but sculpted you know it's a sculpted toy on the premium le so those were the main differences I noted uh in terms of features both versions uh noteworthy feature is and as it's been promoted and it was to my knowledge this is new to pinball we haven't seen this before there's a newton ball a Newton ball magnet. And so that's sort of at the left orbit. And it's almost like a horseshoe magnet where it's supposed to be able to grab the ball from five different shots. And then it essentially sets up the shot to the upper flipper. So, and I did watch a stream of this Jack Danger on dead flip streamed this back on Friday. I didn't watch the whole stream. I watched the first with Keith, they like to play the game first and then walk through. So I watched the first gameplay and then I switched away once they were getting ready to go through the Stern Insider Connected because I'm not seven and I know how the internet works. So I felt I didn't need that. But so I got to look, it was a four player game. So I got to watch a lot of gameplay. That Newton ball magnet gets used a lot. It was constantly in play. So I think that's pretty cool. And I'm glad that that is in both versions. And then to round out my summary of information, this is the first game where all of the models are coming out with Stern Insider Connected all the Spike 2 games as we noted in the last episode will be upgradable And coming from the factory at this point they all have Stern Insider Connected capabilities integrated But obviously the older models don't. But there will be no older model of Godzilla. They all have the QR codes and everything.
    15:42
    And pricing. So pricing is up significantly now. That's a good word for it. MSRP prices are now, for Godzilla, the Pro is, I'm not going to do these 999 things. The Pro is $6,900. That's a $700 increase from the prior game, Mandalorian. The Premium is $9,000. That's a $1,200 increase from Mandalorian. And the LE model is $10,500. That is a $1,300 increase from Mandalorian. And I'll also note that Mandalorian was 750 units of LE. This is 1,000 units of LE. Wow. For a license that I think, despite I know you being a huge Godzilla fan, I think we can agree Showa-era Godzilla is not as popular today as Mandalorian is. Yeah, I think that's a safe bet to make. And in terms of the other games, just as a quick aside, this is covered much more depth on the pinball show from last week that I co-hosted with Zach Minney. I believe he noted that what Stern told him as a distributor is effective immediately. All of the Stern games being made that are not Godzilla have a $300 price increase. At least all of the Spike 2 ones do. And then all the other games pricing will match Godzilla as of January 1. So they've spiked everything immediately a little bit, But Godzilla is still far and away the most expensive game that Stern makes. Setting aside, like, Elvira. You know, non-Cornerstone style games. So, okay. So all that. Let's talk about the game. I know you had sports stuff that you had to go to, so you weren't able to see the stream. Correct. But you've seen the images of Godzilla. I have. So what are your thoughts currently just on the game in general? I like it overall from the look. I'm not 100% sold on necessarily all of it.
    17:47
    That Newton magnet looks amazing. It looks like that could be a lot of fun. Most of the art I'm pretty good with. It's got Jet Jaguar on it. That makes me happy as a Godzilla fan.
    18:02
    So I will be very happy overall with that. the toys and stuff I'm pretty happy with the look of everything so far at least on the premium and LE models I'm hoping to see to actually get a chance to play it at some point but with that kind of price point and everything I'm not going to hold my breath we'll see how it goes overall with the difference I think that price point is going to hurt it well it has to obviously every time you rate it doesn't and I know this is a hobby horse that Zach will ride and it's a fair one to ride on so I'm not going to say he does it because he's a distributor and that is that the cost of games on the used market is also going up so it's not like you're losing more money go like, I'm sure these Godzillas will sell used more than they just like everything else. And so that it's gone up in a way it's like, okay, well you can still get probably at least the same amount of money back that you were getting. I would agree with that argument. The only issue is obviously you're asking people to tie up more money into an asset than they used to have to tie up. And that might be more, you know, when you're adding up thousand plus dollars yeah approximate i mean we average them all out we're kind of talking a thousand dollars here that's a lot more money for people to i know people are like oh it's only an extra thousand it's like well that's all that's all right that's a matter of perspective but when you're talking about a game that way maybe you were willing to pay five thousand dollars for now you have to pay six thousand dollars for i mean that's a significant percentile increase these things are going up higher than inflation it's just how it's just what's right and yes i do think that's a huge barrier. Watching the gameplay video, I'm pretty sure Jack has that as a VOD. At least that first part I watched, all went really smooth. I think it's a really good few minutes to watch of the gameplay. I liked what I saw. Of course, I've liked how every Keith Elwin has shot this looks like. It will continue to feel fun and flowy. I believe in an interview, I read, this is second hand, that Keith had said his next upcoming game, this was before Godzilla was announced was going to be easier to understand I guess he compared it more in the vein of Iron Maiden which I have to admit I never fully understood the rules of Iron Maiden I always felt I kind of understood the rules of Jurassic Park better but just watching them play it seemed to be really intuitive and make a lot of sense to me you can shoot these loops and build the loop multiplier up and then you go and you choose your city at your scoop and then you can have your pair-ups with the other monsters, the other kaiju you could work with. And it just seemed pretty good. The Newton ball magnet seemed to get a lot of use. I believe during the part I watched, the bridge was never destroyed by anyone. So that made me think, okay, the toy is a great concept and I'm not sure how often you see it. Also, the falling skyscraper, cool idea, but watching it in practice made me think, probably easier to live without than I might have otherwise thought. The Mechagodzilla thing actually seemed to get used the most. Really? Oh, I just, I don't know if it's because it's a multiball that they were going for or what. Obviously, now, I don't know how hard the game is. Two of the players, so I was watching Keith Elwin played it, Rick Nagel, who's the programmer who implements Keith's rules, Jack Danger played it, and Tanya Clice, who was the lead decoder on Deadpool. Those were the four I watched. Okay. Tanya and Jack seemed to struggle with keeping the ball in play. Like they had short ball times. Even Keith got screwed on one of his own plunges though. And I, I'm not going to say this is a star Wars where you're going to plunge and it's going to left out lane you, if you let it auto plunge, but it's one of those cross play field plunges, which I don't like as much. Um, when Keith and Rick had the ball in play, they had decent ball times but keith is the greatest pinball player ever and he designed the game so that he had one ball that happened to go like six minutes probably it's probably not as easy as he made it look right but like the loop shot it doesn't seem like warp ramp type it seems pretty it seems pretty easy to loop um which is probably good because that newton ball doesn't like a lot of times it was more like it just over dribbled away from that so you're not getting a lot of momentum when it's being released from the magnet so but overall yeah i thought i thought it was neat uh good animation assets i mean they were like clips of godzilla knocking down them jets that was not a good impression but it was definitely and they're just exploding they're exploding and then and him uh and people running from him and certain shots it just you'd see a lot of the same clips over and over but they kept the screen kept the screen active. The Blue Oyster cult song, Godzilla, I believe it triggered when Godzilla multi-ball triggered, which I appreciated. Most of the time when the ball was in play and you weren't in a mode, it's the theme. Which is even better. Exactly. And I was like, yes! You don't disrespect Akira. You put his stuff in because it's awesome. And so I really like that.
    23:40
    I actually, and I mentioned this on that TPS episode I mentioned earlier, I'm not a fan of the approach on the art that Zombie Yeti took on this I think he took the same color scheme oversaturated approach that he did on Avengers and Turtles and I think it looks a little too Marvel comic for me he's drawn all of the monsters great the work is there the quality is there I'm not saying he did a bad job but I do not like the direction he took with it and as a case in point I have after we started it and if it showed up on your one note, I've dropped in at the bottom of our pinball section an example of Matt Frank's art. He is a Godzilla artist. And that's more of the style I wanted to see. Not necessarily the creatures looking as aggressive as he's often done, but the colors. Right. More muted. Because when I looked at it, that was one of the first things I thought about is how much brighter and poppier it is than Godzilla in Hell, which is a limited Godzilla series that was put out that I own. And I think I read, because there's actually been a little bit more than I thought, honestly, because people love zombie Yeti artwork. There's been a lot more pushback on this than normal, and he's been a bit defensive about it. And I think in one of his explanatory posts, I think he indicated that he ended up going the direction of the posters of the era. which actually kind of makes sense because that is the kind of style that was found by him. And secondhand, I think I read, and I didn't see this post originally, but supposedly he had claimed that he had tried to do it more like the actual films and it didn't look good. But I think there's a third way here where you could still go with that more hand-drawn comic style, but not the Marvel school of comic drawing. with just and honestly i think what they did was was the right move it's not my ideal i still think it looks great i don't buy games off of art anyway though so that's in a way that's moot but it's just and i almost feel like it's a meme at this point but it's uh i almost think that in the boardrooms where they're sitting around they're like we gotta sell some we gotta sell some pinball machines what do we do all right throw on some sort throw on art and then go into photoshop and take that saturation slider and move it all the way to the right because you got oversaturate it because then people will tell you the colors pop it doesn't matter how oversaturated it is no one in this field knows anything about art just make it pop they'll fall for it they'll fall for it because the colors look rich and i don't know i've oversaw i've been editing my own watch video youtube yeah i've oversaturated and i'm like wow my shirt really pops if i do this uh i don't look human anymore but i look pop you get a little uncanny valley going on i look really popped so so anyway um but uh now i one of my little favorite uh it's probably not so much an easter egg there are some easter eggs like jeremy put in on the skyscraper the uh the carpeting of the building is the papa facility's old carpeting oh pinball facility he he stuck a twippy award in in uh i think up there as well i believe somewhere is gary stern integrated i don't even know where that one is i just heard i just heard claim that there was one of my favorite things is not hidden it's really obvious but i thought that this is a nice sign that either jeremy packer is a godzilla fan to some degree or someone told him about godzilla and that was the that they put between the flippers is mothra and the shoot again in her eyes and just her ability to you know spoiler alert mothra dies a lot a lot and but if she's laid an egg she comes back and always another some authors should be your shoot again because the queen of the queen of the monsters has a way of enduring that's her one of her powers so uh so full respect to that um okay so overall we sound pretty positive uh i did read last night uh confirmation that 403 club in kansas city is getting a premium so just a question of when i believe uh zach noted that the premiums, I think they're November builds. So we'll probably be waiting a couple months. Be waiting a little while. You kind of touched on it before, but this is less related to Godzilla, but a little less as well. What are your thoughts on this price increase, Tony?
    28:18
    The thing is, a price increase of this amount I think would have gone over better. I mean, it's never going to go over well. I think it would have gone over better on Mando.
    28:35
    Because of the sheer popularity of the show currently, that a lot more people wouldn't have cared about it as much. Where the old school Godzilla theme is going to have a much more niche market. It's going to be so people are going to feel more comfortable say no.
    29:02
    I mean, it's pinball. Pinball people don't say no to pretty much anything. Or they'll say a lot of no and then they'll buy it anyway. Sure, but there are a lot that are very theme-driven. And I've seen a number of people already that are like, I want it because it's Elwynn, but the theme doesn't do anything. Zach's like that. Zach's like, I don't know anything about Godzilla. I mean, he'll get it because, well, he gets everything. Right. Most people don't get everything. Well, see, and like I told you when the pictures first came out on everything, this is one of the big times where if I had money wasn't an object, even with the increase, I'd probably drop on this because of the theme. Because I'm an old school Godzilla fan. I have been since I was a kid. but even if I was in the market without it being literally to the point where I could pretend like in my head that $11,000 is nothing, there's no way. Yeah, I mean. Just out of curiosity, I looked at Carvana. There are 52 cars nearby that are cheaper at Carvana than an LE Godzilla.
    30:26
    Well, the LE Godzillas are sold out anyway. Yeah, no, I mean, that was one of the things. Of course they're sold out. That was one of the, I mean, for me, because I've never owned an Elwynn, and I've been tempted for, I've been tempted to get Jurassic Park. Because I like the, I do like the theme, but the gameplay was good. Looking at this and watching it and watching it played and watching how understandable it was I definitely be tempted to get a Godzilla But for a premium for all the features that is a tall I never paid remotely that much for a pinball machine My most expensive pinball machine was New Inbox TNA, and the only reason I went up that high was I had left my old job and I had a big vacation payout that covered that game. now the pro is close to what i paid for the tna you know it's within a thousand of that so you know i guess i could rationalize maybe doing the pro but i haven't seen the pro played and i haven't played anything yet and you know i like to play yeah but i don't blame you for that so and i've been i've i need to i do need to clarify because i i've i've said broadly before that i only buy games i've played that's not actually true i've only bought new in box games I've already played. Used games I take chances on. Right. Back when used games didn't cost you in box prices. Now, you know, the FOMO. We got the FOMO. I don't know. Obviously, we're going to get a Godzilla, so I'll have an opportunity to play. Unless you were getting the LE, there's plenty of time. The only thing is, we're going to stick us with another price increase. That affects everything. That's the reason why I never bit on Iron Man Vault. I love Iron Man. I love the game Iron Man, but when the Vaults came out, I'm like, I don't think I can rationalize paying $5,000 for a game that was $4,800 two years ago. I just didn't think I could do it.
    32:17
    So anyway, overall, good job, Stern. I think this looks great. I love how they've integrated it. When you get a chance to watch the video or get a chance to play it, I think you'll really like what they're doing with the old clips from the movie and stuff. It was fun. I was actually watching the screen more. I had to keep telling myself to watch the gameplay and figure out what's going on because you can stare at the screen any time. It's been such a long time since I've seen the old Showa era Godzilla stuff, and I never watched all of them. To me, there was a lot of new stuff. I've seen them all many, many times.
    32:51
    So anyway, good job to Stern. I think it was well-received for a license that I was surprised they went with. I could have seen them going with the Legendary Pictures Godzillas. I was shocked when they went to Toho, and I was extra shocked when they did first-gen Godzilla. So it's like – so no one say that – Well, I wouldn't say first-gen Godzilla. Well, it's a show era. It's like 54 to 75. It's the first movies. Yeah. Now, they're only using clips from 10, and there are more than 10 movies in the stretch. So I don't know which ones they're not using. Oh, let's see. But – because I didn't – I mean, I don't know. I haven't seen the clips, so I don't know. I didn't know if there was anything from the original 54. I'm guessing there are a couple of scenes because there were some shots that were black and white. Was it the only black and white one? Oh, let's see. Because there are scenes with Godzilla in the water.
    33:45
    Most of the stuff was not, definitely not the first one. I've not seen the first one. Okay. There might have been two. that fell under show wire or there was there were black and white okay no it looks like it's it was just the original well unless they they desaturated and in turn scenes end up like i'm pretty sure they did throw in a lot but most of the modes were were not from that most of the modes were from more more modern ones right but they had a few shots i think of godzilla approaching cities and stuff that were back from the original what's my read of it but i only saw a little bit And, of course, as commonly the place, usually with future code updates, they start to diversify the clips more and get more assets in there. I mean, there was always – I didn't see anything that was like a blatant placeholder or anything. But anyway, I thought it was pretty good. I thought it was interesting. So good job, Elwin, yet again. I'm sure he's tired of hearing that.
    34:51
    Oh, no. I did good again. No. Yeah, I'm sure he's listening with bated breath. Speaking of people who are listening with bated breath, before we leave the pinball section, let's talk a little bit about Halloween.
    35:04
    The spooky pinball game, which has an Ultraman version, but we're not going to talk about the Ultraman version. I have another link in the show notes that you and I only just saw this morning, and it's gameplay on YouTube from what in a Pinside thread was declared as being the person who was the animation director for the game. so I only watched a few minutes of this the guy's streaming setup he didn't have a lot of external lighting it was difficult to see the middle of the playfield which isn't well lit for streaming purposes at the very least by the game itself which is not necessarily unusual but I really because hey it's the animation director I really paid attention to watching the use of the LCD screen I'm a little surprised I don't know exactly what your thoughts were Tony but I looked at it and I was like where the heck are the movie clips this looks I don't know if I want to say bad but it definitely looks like we didn't know what to do with an LCD screen I'll just describe it Most of what, and I watched a little bit and then I watched some of it with you. Different section of the video, incidentally. You wouldn't have known that, but it was a different section of the video. And I'm watching the screen and it's mostly taking a still image and applying a shaky cam effect to it or a standard zoom in, zoom out to give some motion to a still.
    36:44
    With superimposing additional still layers that are possibly given motion in similar ways. So like the most complicated one I recall seeing was the one where there's a movie clip of Laurie in the closet when Michael Myers is trying to get her. But instead of just having that in there, there is an image of Laurie from the art that's got like some motion like zooming back and forth. There's an image of Michael Myers from the art as clearly a separate image on the same screen, also having a different motion effect. there's a third image of a light bulb probably from the art that's being given it's moving back and forth to kind of convey that it's swinging and then there's a fourth image of I think it's a dress that's also drawn, I'm sure from the art that is moving as well I don't understand I thought they had the rights to the movie clips so why isn't the if there was a placeholder why would you go to the trouble of animating I animate images like I do pan and zoom and stuff when I do my watch YouTube all the time. It's easier, though, if there's just a clip because I also take clips from their trailers and just drop a clip in. It's much easier. So I don't understand why they're doing this unless there's more limits than I was under the impression. Anyway, I just thought it looked unimpressive.
    38:06
    I'm talking too much. What are your thoughts? You watched several minutes. I watched several minutes of it, and it did feel like, I mean, it was well done art. No, no, no. I think they are straight from the playfield and cabinet and stuff are translated. It totally felt like placeholder. It was weird.
    38:26
    I don't know if they were going for a certain kind of feeling with it, or if it was because they didn't have full use of the assets, or that they, I don't know, if the asset quality was too low, maybe they couldn't make it work. I don't know but it felt weird and with how often every time I because I was jumping around and watching a minute here a minute or two here a minute or two there all over the stream and it felt like there was like four scenes that was all you ever saw my favorite and by favorite I mean least favorite is the external shots of the house of a house and then they clearly superimpose an image of lightning but it's not even contained to just the sky you can actually make out the lightning bolts going through the house yeah because like in front of right i'm saying this is a if you're in vegas pro so if you want to do this by the i don't recommend it if you want to do it just throw in an image and then in the track above it throw in an image of lightning and then you don't turn the turn the opacity down from 100 to like 40 that's how you get this effect it's that simple i was i was pretty i was pretty shocked and i and i don't get it as placeholders because if it was if you were just doing a placeholder why wouldn't you just stick a still image of the art up and it'd be like because this is going to be a clip why would you go to the trouble of integrating all these art assets to give this illusion of motion that is stuff that you do when you don't have the clip i just don't know because we've seen placeholders before and it's usually just basically a blank screen and I know it looks bad but people can at least tell it's a placeholder then right and I heard when you were playing the clip he mentioned at one point the volume wasn't very loud but at one point he mentioned something about them having more clips like more clips are going in so maybe you're right but right now this did not like um I said this to me my I don't know when this video came out I only heard about it today or saw it today, but I remember seeing on Nap Arcade, Jason Nap's Facebook that he does with arcade stuff last night when we were at the pinball tournament, that there were 14 Halloweens available. I'm assuming the pre-order positions on pin side, 14. And I wondered this morning, did they see this video? And bail? Yeah. Because if I saw this video and I had been on a Halloween, there might've been 15 yeah i'll just put it like that it was pretty bad and again i don't i don't really care that much about i don't normally care i don't you know art is real low priority for me i'm just honestly though i've not the gameplay was another matter and i've not been impressed at all with what i've been seeing with the gameplay so i couldn't again there's a reason why i'm not in on this game but oh my gosh i was just like really i they made it sound like they had a lot of stuff And I'm just, I mean, again, it's been over a year while they were doing Rick and Morty's. I don't understand why this stuff ain't ready. Right. If that's the issue. If this is placeholder, I don't understand why they're that far behind.
    41:40
    There's no good reason as far as I can see. And I will say when you're talking about like the play, the game play and everything, is I was always worried about that whole triple upper play field. It looks even worse than I thought it would in play. Because it feels like when you're looking at the play field, it feels like the actual play field is about a quarter of the size of the play field.
    42:08
    Because I don't think there's really anything you can do under those other play fields. Yeah, because you've got the triple going up on the side and you've got the hedges coming down on the left. And it feels like there's just like a narrow band of actual play. Of three shots. Yeah. There were like three shots up the middle. And then you can get into the upper play field system. One of the three upper play fields being non-interactive, so it's really a glorified ramp. Right. So it could be. It's entirely possible. It's got great play. It just doesn't look like it, especially not from that video.
    42:43
    And the – oh, that stuff on the screen, man, it makes no sense. I was just really surprised. because if you're, and this is a what if, because I haven't played it, and I haven't played Ultraman either, so I don't, I have not shot the layout yet, so I don't want to pass full judgment on it. Right. That said, if your gameplay is not great, you can always go Box of Lights, Jukebox, or Box of Lights Movie Theater and try and make people feel like they're in, in this case, in the film, to make up for that. It's the GNR effect. I've been pretty public about my experiences with the standard GNR at 403. I don't enjoy it, but it is a pretty, I mean, it sounds great and it looks great. I just don't like how it plays and I don't like the rules, but it's fun to listen to. If I was a bigger GNR fan, I'd be more into it. Right. But, and I'm a big Halloween fan and I thought there were going to be clips of Michael Myers walking around. day or something even in the video he was saying there were clips i never saw any of them i i don't know they had i mean there were clips like in their reveal trailer i thought we did at least see those clips um i thought maybe we'd see clips of the back of michael myers walking somewhere where you can't identify an actor or something but even shots of him on the street were still art with with effect applied yeah i just i don't get it i don't know and the thing is they'd do the art, they'd have the effect and there'd be a tiny little bit of motion and then they'd do like the 1950s static blur as they reset to start the motion over again. Yeah, at static TV transition. Yeah, and the whole movement clip was like a second and a half. You know, we only saw a few of those clips. Maybe they are placeholders and it's like there are only like four of them, so why not go ahead and give them animation to make them feel a little better. But if you spend any amount of time with it. I mean, this guy streamed for over an hour, but it took less than five minutes to be like, oh, wow. It's just scores popping up on the same ten-second animation over and over. I just, that they're building them and sending them out now, I just expected better.
    45:08
    I'm being frank. I just expected better. Well, speaking of better, we better move along to video games, because I don't have anything else for us in pinball.
    45:18
    What's going on in the world of video games? Don't start us with Blizzard this time. I'm not starting with Blizzard. Nor am I finishing with Blizzard. But they're in there. I had to. I understand. I want to. I understand. As long as you bury the lead, it's okay. But I'm going with what is, to me personally, the biggest, most important story. This sounds like some THQ nonsense. It's exactly what it is. THQ has confirmed that they're putting out Jagged Alliance 3. I don't think I've ever played any Jagged Alliance. That's a lie. I don't think so. I know you've played Jagged Alliance 2 because we've both played Jagged Alliance 2. You don't know me. We lived together and I know you played Jagged Alliance 2. You thought it was... That's even... It was porn all along. I mean one of those sayings that I still pop out every once in a while comes from Jagged Alliance 2 With Gunther and his every day and every way I get better and better Oh is that what that from That what that from That from Jagged Alliance 2
    46:25
    The Jagged Alliance games were a series of turn-based tactical combat games. Right. A niche genre that I'm a rather large fan of. And I played it a lot. In the original ones, you were basically hiring mercenaries to go kick out some dictator out of some banana Republic, little Island. Uh, and your mercenaries would level up and there were things you could find and you could find weapons and, and upgrade everything. It was a lot of fun. Uh, I played quite a lot of them. Um, probably as much as I played XCOM really. Uh, I was going to ask you, Which do you think is better, Jagged Alliance or XCOM? A little rough.
    47:15
    Probably because of the fun of the theme and the base building and research stuff XCOM. That's what I thought you'd say. But I actually preferred Jagged Alliance when it came to the actual combat side of things and the leveling of characters and stuff. And I prefer that a little bit. And there's an independent game out there called... Oh, I don't remember what it's called right now. That is kind of a modern interpretation of the original XCOM. But it gives you the ability to include stuff like tanks. and like not the little robot, like an actual like real tank tank. But they go a bit more into the combat systems, a bit more Jagged Alliance-y, at least in the look and feel than XCOM. But I mean, the games were much newer, so they obviously had a lot of stuff to build on. But no, I'm pretty excited for it. it'll be interesting to see if they do like was done with the XCOM reboots where it was kind of kept on the theme, but was still pretty heavily different. Or if it's more closely related to the originals. Hmm.
    48:44
    So also in our news, another delay. I saw, I had heard about this one. Yeah. Battlefield 2042 has been pushed back a month. which is good in a way there had been rumors before they confirmed this that we're flying that this game was going to come out in 2022 and it still might and it still might but people got a little calmer once the developer team came out and was like no no but remember we him up we heard that a year ago with a completely different game and cyberpunk do they just need another couple months. No, DICE would never, actually DICE has had a few terrible launches. DICE could completely cyberpunk this. I love the Battlefield games, but DICE has let me down before. Yeah. Yeah, I know you're a big fan of the Battlefield games. I still have not really ever. You just, you've never been in a tank fighting three other tanks with three engineers behind you using their repair tools to keep you from blowing up. No.
    49:48
    No, I haven't. And your view would be different. that changes everything it does i will i will say battlefield games make for some of the most insane videos yes i've ever seen when it comes to video games for silliness because you know there's nothing i like more than ejecting from my jet plane to shoot down other jet planes with an rpg and then climbing back into my jet plane or if you ever if you dive deep into the battlefield of the lore. You can go into a jet, fly up in the air, eject yourself, headshot the pilot, and take their jet. Now, I've never pulled that off myself, but it can be done. Probably works better with a mouse and PC. Probably. That probably helps a fair amount. So, we'll see where that goes. If it gets cyberpunk delayed some more, or if it actually rolls on the 19th of November like they've pushed it back to. They did push back the open beta that was originally getting ready to start to sometime in October. So we will see how that works out. There are no firm dates on it, but it looks like the rumors are saying it will start like the 6th or something like that. I haven't decided. I've done their open pages before. I don't know if I'm doing it this time.
    51:04
    We'll see. Now we will bring up Blizzard because we have to. they had a new lawsuit filed against them by their workers due to them threatening and disciplining employees on account of protected concerted activity. So basically, they're punishing people for talking about making unions and for discussing their pay with each other and for signing petitions people are being you know they're getting in trouble for it that's a big no I remember back when my bank days it was a policy for apparently not a legal one to not be allowed to discuss your pay with other because I found out what another co-worker of mine made I went to the bank president and said I wanted more money I was young then and a bit of a whippersnapper. And he's like, well, you're not supposed to know her pay. And I said, well, but I do.
    52:15
    I still didn't get as much. I got a raise, but I didn't get as much. She had more tenure. See, since I work in government, everybody knows my pay. Right, well. But in the private world, they like to make it so that some people make way less and they keep it secret. Even if they've got similar time, similar skills, you could have very disparate pay levels. Which you can have, but they get to know that, too. Yeah, because I've heard horror stories of people coming in and having new people that they are training who have no experience making $5 and $6 more per hour. And it's just like, okay.
    52:58
    So we'll see how this suit goes, how it works out. On top of all of their other stuff. But just more Blizzard issues.
    53:15
    Onto a good news. A stern level secret in video gaming is that Knights of the Old Republic has been being prepped to be released on modern consoles. and it's now been confirmed that it is going to be not just a porting, it's going to be a ground up remake and it is going to be a timed console exclusive on Playstation 5 Playstation though it will also be available on PC because yeah so Knights of the Old Republic was a great game. Yeah, I'm sure this will be well received, though my general impression, and I'm not a Knights of the Old Republic, I've not played it, but my general impression of the sizable fan base is that they want a new one. Right. Well, and it'll just, I think a lot of it will come in, it'll depend upon how they end up doing it. Yeah, I mean, they're bad. And how it plays. I mean, like, again, the Final Fantasy VII remake, The first of the three remakes went over extremely well with people. Same with the Resident Evil remakes. I've played two of them, I believe, at this point, at least one. And again, it's just sort of like, wow, they did a really good job. So likewise, if this is done well, not only does it give them the – this game is old enough that I'm not going to criticize them for, oh, yeah, just do another re-release or rehash, which Capcom was kind of known for for a long time because there's so many people that could play this now that weren't even alive when it came out. Yeah.
    55:05
    Well, and some of the rumors say that they're blending some of the stuff from Knights of the Old Republic 2 into it and making adjustments based upon the changes to canon. Okay. So we'll see. We'll see what it ends up being. But I remember the game was a lot of fun. I have actually played through it multiple times because I played, you know, your standard good guy playthrough and I played a bad guy playthrough. And then at one point in time, I found a guide listing that was talking about an interesting playthrough because, you know, you start out as there's different types of characters you can play and you can become a Jedi or not as you play through. but there was a version of the guy put together where he did become a Jedi and he had Jedi powers, but he still didn't use a lightsaber. He was still a dual blaster guy. And I tried that. And that was a lot of fun because it's like, Oh, I don't need a lightsaber. I'll just, you know, shoot everything, stun people for it, push them away, shoot them a bunch more. It was a lot of fun. So we'll be, it'll be interesting to see how that goes. Uh,
    56:17
    and from what I've heard, EA is not involved in any way shape or form Okay Which is interesting considering they have the Star Wars License for a little while longer Yep Maybe there's some It could be because it's a pre Before It may be something in the terms that didn't affect prior Licensors Right so that's my guess And then for my last little bit Here in Video Games Today Touching on something we kind of mentioned In our intros No Man's Sky.
    56:52
    We all remember, or I've reminded you at some point in time, what a massive disaster No Man's Sky was on launch and how many major patches have come out and changed the game.
    57:07
    But it's actually at the point now where on Steam, it has shifted from mixed to mostly positive in the reviews. that's actually i think that's actually pretty impressive considering originally it was like mostly negative to have moved all the way up to mostly positive is right and when you have to think about whether or not very many people would go back and revise their old reviews or just enough other reviews have come in right on my you know that what that reminded me of and so i i pulled it as of our time of recording you know tying this back to pinball you know pin site has its top 100 um one of the by and large most respected games of the last 10 years is the walking dead it's rated 31st on that list and the reason is it was not well regarded when it came out because the rules were not very good right and a lot of those reviews on pin side are from those early and those people didn't go back and play it again or if they did they didn't go back and adjust their review and so that game is forever pulled down lower than it should be by all any objective measure because people judged it by what it was in the past and they haven't revised it because i don't see now it's it's it's tough for me to say but i would go ahead and say there's no reason that game wouldn't be in the top 20 if it was judged off of how it was when it was finished but they put it out before it was finished right and that's the price that got well i wonder how many other games would have the same shift if it wasn't and how many games are the opposite how many games have a higher rating based upon their massive popularity when they first came out compared to what it actually ended up being after people had played them for a while and in pinball at least that's actually really common it's it's almost a joke at this stage that when people buy a new game they will go in and they like 10.0 it uh and whether or not they're doing that because they are super excited whether or not they're doing that because they want to sell the game and they need to get it a higher rating because they decided they didn't want to keep it or whether or not it's they give it a high rating because mentally they would have a great deal of difficulty accepting that they spent thousands of dollars on something that wasn't great it could be any of that sort of thing and then other people go in eventually and overly negative vote it because they're trying to counteract the people that were overly positive on it and then eventually the game shakes out to where it's quote unquote supposed to be like Jurassic Park Stern Jurassic Park is still really it's like number two on the list and that's been out a while Godzilla will probably take the number one spot at some point almost everything new like I think Guns N' Roses did at one point it grabs it for a little bit I don't know Mando did but I think Avengers did I don't follow it closely yeah it wouldn't surprise me to see them jump up and then balance out but yeah some of there are games in this top 100 that there's no way they should be where they're at it'd be interesting to tear through that at some point but we've just had too much news just too much news to begin the training speaking of training we're done so we can go and do our training montage after this yeah that'll be fun but if people want to email about anything we covered or things they'd like us to cover go ahead and send an email to eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or you can go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast and shoot us a message we're available on twitter and instagram as eclectic underscore gamers I actually posted two pictures from the You did. I saw them show up when I checked my Instagram. It was a picture of you and me and a picture of some pinball machines. Yes. They liked the pinball picture more. Of course they did. Because they are anti-human scum. It's all about the machines. That's right. That's why they're worth $10,500 now. And I'm only worth $150.
    61:13
    For episode 150. Well, it depends. I mean, I've heard some of your various parts might be worth more on the black market. That could be true.
    61:23
    So we'll be back in a couple of weeks. I don't know. I'm not expecting any new pinball game announcements in two weeks. The rumor mill isn't really saying anything new until October, late October, like Expo. Which would make sense. Well, we'll see. So until next time, I'm Dennis. I'm Tony. Goodbye, everybody. See you.