it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teoles you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile email us pinball profile at gmail.com please subscribe on your favorite podcatcher and also follow us on instagram at pinball profile you know who else you should be following on all of those things fun with bonus steven bowden our next guest, our special guest, a great friend, one of the greatest players in the world for several years. Stephen, thanks for joining us. Hello, hello, and thank you for allowing me to be on your show once again, Jeff. It's great to be here on this upcoming, very important couple of weeks for me and a few of my colleagues. It'll be good to talk to you about what's coming up next. We will get deep into that a little bit later, I'm sure. It's very, very exciting what's happening with Deep Root, and that's where you've been for the last year and a half now. Actually, a little bit more than a year. Okay, a year. Wow. That's certainly a very, very important topic, which is going to be happening in Houston next weekend. But I just saw you at the Sanctum, and I know I'm paying for it this week. I never got my second win. I did the year ago, and I felt pretty good. The last six hours, I was just dragging. I know it was rough for you, too. It was certainly rough for me. There were a couple of rounds near the midway point of the tournament where I just laid two eggs in a row. And once I laid those two down, it was, I got a two round and a one round and the maximum points is nine. So getting a two out of nine is terrible. And once that happened, I could not recover from that. Even though I tried my best, I was not consistent enough. I mean, you pretty much need some sevens and eights in a row in order to come back from that. And so I would get like a seven and then follow it with a four or something. So, you know, finished 23rd, which is, you know, not terrible, but not great. So this adds more points to the circuit total to set up for the final event of the year. Yeah, the pros circuit, the Stern pros circuit is huge this year. A couple things happened since they announced the original circuit event. A few of the circuit events fell off, so we're not at a full 20. We're at 20 people versus 40 as opposed to years past. They've reduced that so that they could do a true ladder match. Now, the ladder match did exist, but it was only once you got to the 20. So they're skipping that first kind of round robin, if you will, groups of four, ten groups of four, which is a good thing, too, because it really punished some of the top players. And you are a perfect example of this. You were the number one seed last year. And what benefit did you get of being the number one seed? Nothing. Well, I got nothing, but it's also because I played poorly. So that's also part of it. Yes, I got the number one seed, but then I flew out there, but that's where the dice started getting rolled. And I did not play well in those two rounds. I got by. I was thinking maybe if I can get by the first round, but no, that didn't happen. And so I did not keep my seed. And so since I squandered that, I wanted to do my best to do whatever I could to get the number one seed again this year. And it's going to be close. It is going to come down to the final weekend where there are two Stern Pro Circuit events on the same weekend. Right. So you got OBX and you have Free Play Florida. So that's basically the first round of the playoffs. Really, this is the opening bids where everybody's going to get their seed so they'll be able to see how much money they earned for their seed. And then, I mean, if they lose out on the first game because it's cutthroat. Ladder match, so that means if you're last place, you're out. Last place means you're fired. So get out. So when you look at where you are, like if I can get the number one seed, then that means I'm guaranteed fourth. So whatever that fourth place is is what I'm looking at as far as, okay, this is what my rebate would be for spending all this money and time and dedication and just traveling around the circuit and trying to get as many points as possible. So we'll see if I can get the number one seed, retain it, keep it wherever I'm standing. But everybody's going to be there because this is kind of the opening round. Everybody's going to be in Florida, as far as I know, and everybody else is going to be at OBX. That's just the way it works out. It's the perfect weekend for competitive pinball, really, where everybody who's everybody is going to be there. Yeah, Florida I heard. I know I'll be there, but when we're talking about great players, I think Raymond is going to be there. Escher and Adam are going to be there. I believe Carl and Jim from California. It's going to be heavyweights for sure. So it's almost like you say a playoff round really before the circuit begins next year. But still, you're in good shape. And now with that true ladder match and the recently $10,000 donation from Stern, To go into this, the prize pool just got so much sweeter for those 20 players. Yeah, I definitely, of course, appreciate that as someone who is near the top, just seeing the prize pool increase. So that increases my chances of recovering some of my not investment, but expenses for doing some of these events. So definitely glad I tried to do my best to get the number one seed. So that took $5,000 and a game. That's about $10,000. Yeah, that's a $10,000 win. And second place is $2,000. That's a huge gap. That's an $8,000 match. I mean, that's an eight because it's a one-on-one. So that's an $8,000 game. You have to do a side deal. You got to split that somehow. I mean, you know, you got to think real hard about it. I mean, yeah. Six and four is still even $2,000 split. Who knows? I mean, I don't know what the tax implications are in the States for something like prize money. Isn't it anything over $600? Yeah, I think it's anything over $600. So that might just prevent the split right then, right? Because if you're talking about a $10,000 hit, right, you're sure you want it, but then you owe probably like three or four grand off of it. I don't know how it works, but it might not work out anyway. So just the fact that there are implications like that just might prevent people just splitting it all. You know what? Just do it straight up. All right. We'll see what happens. So they're giving away a new in-box Stern. They're giving one away at InDisc at the Open coming up. They did one at the Stern Pro Circuit. They did Heads Up. I mean, it's been nice to see these games being given away. It's incredible. We've seen the prize pool certainly increase. So as much as I hate to admit it, congratulations, Josh Sharpe, on sincerely, though, really increasing the prize pool. As much as I hate to admit he's done something well, he's done something well. This is growing pinball in the right direction. So kudos to you, Josh. There, I said it. Yeah, Josh. Yeah, good job, Josh. You know, he's trying his best to increase the pool because, you know, like it or not, it's the numbers that attract the people. And, you know, people like the bigger numbers. You know, what did you win? Oh, I won a couple hundred bucks. No, what did you win? I won $10,000. Oh, okay. Right? I mean, that's just the way the world works. People appreciate the bigger money amounts. That's just what happens. So it brings the attention. We were talking about new in box, pinball machines. Not too many people in the world can say they've won one or several. I know Raymond's won a few. You've won one, and in fact, it's still in the box. For those that don't know, you have a Game of Thrones premium, I believe. Yeah, that's correct. My Game of Thrones premium that I won at the 2015 Chicago Expo is still in the box. I was just thinking about opening it up finally once I moved down to San Antonio for my new job, but, I mean, it got to a point where I was arranging the games to put in the space, and I couldn't really fit it. And so since it was still in the box, I just left it in there. So as long as there's a Game of Thrones reasonably close to me, I'll go to the route and support the route and play it there. So, yep, for right now, it still remains sealed like, you know, a secret buried treasure or something waiting to be opened. It's kind of like that box you see hidden away in the warehouse, Raiders of the Lost Ark. So, I mean, who knows where that thing is now, but I guess you do. but it's going to be a nice surprise when somebody, hopefully you, opens it one day. Yeah, I think I'll end up opening it one day, and hopefully it won't be like Indiana Jones when I open it and the Ark melts the guy's face away or whatever it was. Something happened where somebody's face melted in those movies. But, yeah, that will be a day when I finally decide to open it and play that old code before I upgrade it to the new code. I don't even remember the old code. Do you remember the first code? No way. I think the first code was still Greyjoy heavy, and then you could still do Martell. I don't even remember it at all. There were some glitches in it with the bonus, and yeah, I remember that. So that would be very interesting to go back in time to play that and see what I could put together before, okay, let's get it to the new code where the code works and it's great. Imagine if you brought that out to a tournament and no one knew what the code was and all of a sudden you like whoa whoa whoa Just put it out there and put a sign up that says old code No no Who knows See, there you go. Kaylee would do that. Kaylee would surprise people. Let's be honest. That's something up his sleeve. So you've won a new Unboxed game. That's a pretty good prize. Raymond Davidson's won a few. But, you know, when you think about competitive pinball, and you've won more than most people, you've probably spent more than you've won. Is that a fair statement to say when you include hotels and flights and cars? Yeah, that's fair to say. I mean, I try my best to break even, but I know that just doesn't work out that way. I mean, because I don't have like a big win like a Pinberg or anything. I would definitely wager that I've spent more money than I've earned. And you've probably won more than, I bet you're in the top 20 all time for winnings. You have to be. I would hope so. But, yeah, again, that's just all about at least breaking even for me. I mean, just do your best to get reimbursed so you can survive to the next one, and then do your best there to survive to the next one. So people listening right now that have never been in competition certainly can understand the enjoyment of competing and that kind of fun that you do, whether it's with your friends in your house or at an arcade. This is a bigger scale. It's a competition. People come from all over the country or, in some cases, from all over the world. We enjoy it. It's certainly very rewarding, satisfying internally when you win something like this, maybe not monetarily. But what is it that you can explain? Because I have trouble explaining this to people that don't play in competitions. Why I travel so much, why I go in these competitions, why I enjoy competitive pinball. So I have trouble explaining it. Maybe you can explain it better. Well, I can just give a quick example of what we just went through with the sanctum, right? That's insane. The sanctum is insane. It is. I mean, we have who knows how many people trying to F5 refresh to be the hundred lucky question mark people who register for this event in four milliseconds. Right. Then those hundred people then pay for the privilege of the torture of playing 24 hours of competitive pinball in a row with no sleep or whatever, whatever nods you can get a quick nap through it. And then at the end, you get the only participation trophy I care about, that medal. I've got mine right here beside the microphone. Right. I mean, it's really the only participation award I care about is that. And at the end of the event, everybody who's basically still awake and trying to readjust their clocks to the new schedule they put their bodies on, they want that medal. Give me that medal. Come on. I earned it. Give it. I don't care where I finished. I made it. and so and it's it that's part of it i mean the part of the the camaraderie of having all those people just go through this thing i mean i imagine you know people who are way more athletic could go through marathons their experience sort of like that but this is just pinball version and this is a pinball marathon you're right that's what it is and so you're sort of going through that and at the end you you go into the crucible and then you come out the other side and you know you give out the money, you give out the prizes and everybody shakes hands and then we all leave and think about what we've just done to ourselves. And so I know like for the sanctum, basically Monday is halfway forfeit. Oh boy. Monday. How about Tuesday? I'm still feeling it. Tuesday, your life may begin again on Tuesday. So, right. But yeah, that is just part of what happens in competition. Everybody's just, you're fighting to be the best there. And then when it's over, the pressure lifts, You decompress, and then everybody shakes hands, and we go back home. I made a crucial mistake, and I can't believe I did it because I've been in, I think, four or five Pinbergs now. And the one thing I tell everybody when they go to Pinberg is make sure you wear comfortable shoes. Comfortable shoes. You can wear more than one pair of shoes. You might need that too. I went for fashion. I wanted to look good, not feel good. What an idiot. No, no, no. I'm telling you, you're there and there are 99 other people who don't even care if you're wearing shoes as long as they smell good. Never mind what your feet look like. I tell you, if I do it next year, Croc City, baby. There you go. Right. Get that oxygen through there. Right. Whatever you can do to help stay on your feet just a little while longer because it can make the difference between a made shot and a missed shot. Let me tell you, that sure did for me. I was in pain the last six hours. I've already got a dud knee and then my legs were just killing it. It all stemmed from my feet and these uncomfortable shoes I was wearing. It was so stupid. But the other thing I learned, too, and I didn't think about this. It's not something you do at Pinberg, but I saw a lot of people do this, and you mentioned it, change their clothes, change into something comfortable. People were wearing pajamas to kind of go through their normal routine. That's a good idea. That's a great idea. I mean, it helps your body act like you're going through a normal day, which is good. Of course, some of the outfits were unconventional. like I believe a unicorn was there or was I hallucinating that? That was Deborah Tallman. I have a picture. I might post it. Okay. So that did happen. So I was not delirious. Okay. So do whatever you have to do to keep yourself and your body as comfortable as possible. Conserve energy. Do whatever you can because you want to be able to last that 24 hours. Even if you don't do well, you want to be able to say that you did it. Well, luckily, our next competition that we go to isn't going to be as grueling. It's certainly going to be tough and competitive as the Sanctum is, but the hours aren't as painful. And that will be coming up next weekend in Houston, which is an easy jaunt for you. A little bit of a flight for me, but something I'm looking forward to. I have not been to the show before. Have you? No, this is my first time at the show. And it'll be nice to just have a nice, clean three-and-a-half-hour drive, I believe, to there. That's nothing for me. I'm used to driving from New Jersey to Canada. So that's fine. That'll be good to not take a flight and use my own car and all that stuff. So, yes, this is, I guess, and the format has also changed for this year, too, from what I remember from last year. But I didn't go to last year's event. But now there's multiple sessions, so you have two chances to qualify. If you make the top six, you're in. And so, yes, it's sold out. So I don't know how many competitors are registered, but it says there's 52 max people per session. 204 then, yeah. Right, so it's 204, but then there would be some duplicates because you could pay up to two sessions at a time. So it wouldn't be the entire 204, so there's at least maybe 104 people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm in twice. I'm not going one and done. I can go down twice and lose both times. Right, so yeah, I did two sessions as well because why not? And, boy, the competition in Texas with yourself, with Colin MacAlpine, with Robert Byers. There's so many people I don't even know that are just Phil Grimaldi. There's just so many good players in Texas. I'm going to be seeing a bunch of them, in fact, next week at Katy, Texas, at Einstein's Pub for the Pinball Profile World Tour, which you've been a part of. It's going to be a lot of fun to do a flip frenzy there. So getting a lot of pinball in in Houston. And I'm wondering for you, is the competition first and foremost on your mind, or is it maybe something else? Yeah, not this time. I mean, it'll be there. I mean, I'm going to have the competition. I'm going to have the seminar also at Houston Arcade Expo about competitive pinball, which I'm not sure what I'm going to be doing there, but I'll come up with something. I'll get a chance to put on my teacher shoes again for an hour. And so that'll be interesting. I got one of the seminars. I think it's 11 a.m. on Saturday, so that'll be good. But even that won't be the thing that I'm mainly paying attention to. before we get to that let's just talk about something completely off topic all right this has nothing to do with anything it's just it's a terrible segue into something absolutely different so hey steven um when you go to a show and you see a brand new game that's being unboxed what are the things you're looking for is it the play field is it the code is it the artwork is it do You want it to be complete? Are you okay if it's not complete? What are the things you look for when, boom, you see a brand new game? Well, when I first see a brand new game, I'm basically looking at the shots. I don't even see the art. And when I say I don't see the art, I mean I don't see it. It's not there. I'm looking at the shots. Even sometimes the lights I'll miss. I'm just looking at how the shots look before I even flip it. And then as the game comes on and I start playing it, I pay more attention to the music and sound than even the art. There are some things that I have not seen on art for years And I played the game just because I haven been able to look at it Like I didn know This is an example coming to my mind right now Stern The Simpsons right I had no idea how to light the mystery on it in the garage until I went and actually looked up and it says in real small text light mystery I didn't know that for years because I just didn't notice. I just happened to notice that the sound I heard when I went and hit a target opened up the garage. So, you know, I pay more attention to the music than the art. Isn't that something? Yeah, that's just how. So that in combination with the play field geometry is what I'm looking at. Steve, you and I are exact same because I'll give an example, a different example of a different game. When Guardians of the Galaxy first came out and I looked at it and I went, I like all those shots. And I actually got to flip it. And people were like, oh, but the code is terrible, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, hey, man, every one of these shots is pretty fun. I'm pretty sure the code will get there. And it has. That's the main point. If you have good shots, code can use the shots. that's right that's that's what that's just what will happen the shots give you flexibility and you can have code do certain things that to use those shots in a great way and maybe have multiple versions of codes that does the same thing have multiple updates do different things with it so that as long as the play field is good and it's fun if it's fun to flip without anything then it'll be fun to flip with code on it it's just a matter of how good the code is but if you have a good play field to work with, yeah, you can do some great things with it. And the game will come into its own, like Guardians has. Like Walking Dead did. Examples like that. It's funny because when we played Elvira at Expo, I think by the second game I was like, okay, I can make every one of these shots and quite a bit. I'm not a great player. Sometimes I'm good. But on that I was like, I'll never miss that left ramp. I'm hitting the house every single time, both flippers. I'm not criddling up. I'm on the fly hitting that tomb thing on the right. Right. And I found all the shots quickly. So is it an easy game? Sure, yeah. But, again, Lyman, we know the code's going to get there, and that game's going to change completely. So at first glance, I was like, oh, this is nothing. But you know it'll get there. Yeah, it'll get there. I mean, as we were playing it, you could see where things will go. Like a certain shot wouldn't do anything, but it's like, yeah, you know what's going to happen here. That'll be filled in. And, you know, just hitting the lock shot on the left side of the house, like in the medieval madness position, hitting that shot was actually easier than... On both flippers. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, so that game's really going to come into its own. So, you know, I can't wait to see how that gets fleshed out, and that'll be good. That'll be fine, too. You and I both agree. When a new game comes out, you look at the shots. Are the shots fun? Okay, so that's what we're going to be looking at. A new game should happen to pop up in the next month, year, week from now. So, again, let's get to why I'm going to the Houston show and you're going to be there and doing a seminar and watching something else is because we're going to see, and let's make this clear, the prototypes of Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. Right. I hope I said that right. I better know how to say the thing right. Yeah, you better know how to say it right. Raza. Yeah, yeah. You have practice on it. Yes, it is the prototype. That's probably going to be the three most popular words I say during a weekend. It's the prototype. It's the prototype. You know what I'm worried about, Steve? And people, it doesn't matter, by the way, any game, any game, any company, the critics are going to be out picking apart every single thing. And just like I described with Elvira, you know, wait for the code. It's going to be great. Guardians, the shots are good. Don't worry about it. It'll be good. Any kind of game, you've got to wait for the code to be there. You've got to wait for full animations, everything, the whole package to be there. So what is the reasoning, I'm asking, and I don't know the answer, for this to come out this week in Houston? Why not? Let's show it. Let's show something. And so at least when we get criticized, we're criticized no longer in theory. It's now reality. So that's better. You know, I like to get criticism as a real company as opposed to theoretically we have a game. No, this is real. So now you can talk all the crap about us all you want. I'll continue not to care. But if it's not constructive, I'll continue not to care. But at least now it will be a real thing as opposed to, yeah, it's happening. We said it's happening and now it is happening. And so stay tuned. But one thing about that is that once something is shown, then the real clock starts because the clock becomes, okay, give it to me. When can I buy it? Give it to me. Can I have it now? When? So that's when the real clock starts. But, Stephen, you and I definitely know this is a real company. I mean, you have been there for over a year. We know how much hard work has gone into this from all the designers, the artists, the coders, the sound, every aspect. I mean, there is a lot of work that's been put into this already. You know it's real. Steven, you know I'm not going to ask you anything that if you can't answer, don't answer, but I'll ask the questions anyway. By showing it, does that mean we're close? Yeah. I mean, it's a confident yes. Yeah, it's going to be flippable. You're going to play modes, and you're going to get a multiball, and we're going to be looking at it, and I'm going to be looking at it as far as seeing what people go for and see what I need to adjust as far as rules, and I'm going to be looking at certain lights and do people understand what those lights mean? And, you know, while also not saying anything because I don't want to taint. Like when you have new people play it, you can't replicate that first play. So I want to look at the person and see what they're going for and see, okay, what's not good enough? What's not being portrayed here for the player that they're not seeing? Is there anything I can improve? And then once that's done, then we can look at score balancing and all that other stuff, making sure that's done. Yeah, that's certainly easily fixable, for sure. Yeah, that's like home stretch stuff. But I'm interested to see, okay, what people look at. Okay, oh, look at the game. Okay, now what are you going for? Okay, is it fun? Are you having fun with the shots? Do you like what this shot does? Do you like how this light looks? And what do you think about it? And if they ask me how to play, I will not answer because that's part of the point. I want to see how you play and what you react to stuff we're going to see this prototype game I guess there are two games going to be there correct? right there's going to be two games there are they the exact same game as one further advanced than the other? I would believe they're going to be the exact same I don't think they're going to be any different from each other they're both going to be Razzes I didn't know if one was like here's a whitewood or something like that there's art on it and you're going to flip it And you're going to start, it's enough for where I'm going to be able to look at you play and I'm going to be interested in how you play for my own knowledge, you know, because I'm also learning as well because I'm learning, you know, it doesn't really matter with me playing. I mean, and with us playing, I want to see how other people play of many different levels and what they do and what they like and what they don't like, what they enjoy, what they didn't, what feels good and what doesn't, what looks good and what doesn't, what attracts your eye, what didn't. What light did you miss? Can I help to make you not miss that light? It's all these things that are important for that first play that I don't want to taint. It's like when I'm walking up to a new game and I don't look at the instruction card on purpose. You just want to flip. I just want to flip because I want to see if the game is going to help me play it without looking at the card. Then I'll look at the card later. But I don't want to take that first game by looking at the card and getting any hints. I want to see what the game is going to tell me intuitively. And so that's what I want to see. I want to see if we did at least a half-decent job of giving you an intuitive look at what the game is doing. Do you get kind of what we wanted to do at this point, even though it's just the prototype? we're going to hear that over and over again it's just a prototype but that is important to say so i guess the one thing is you're talking about you know let's show it so that we can show everyone we're a real company even though everyone knows you're a real company the concern about you only get one first impression does that matter does it not matter in this case i mean i don't i don't know i mean i guess it does matter but i'm not sure like i said i'm not a press secretary so I don't know how to answer those questions. My guess, and without you saying anything, is, yeah, you only get one first impression, but you're going to probably like it or else it wouldn't be released, even in the prototype stage. Right. So like I said, it's not even close to being like, you can't say it's a release. It's the prototype, you know, but we're getting there. I mean you see how far that we are to getting there And then we continue the journey and you see some things continue to happen even after Houston But you know as we continue on this journey to release Raza and then of course more games in the future That's why I'm there. And so I'm just really interested to see. It's going to be fun. It's certainly going to be fun. It'll be interesting. And, you know, I look forward to the constructive criticism. And I stress constructive. does the deep root staff consider this show in a way almost like a focus group it's um yeah i guess you can you can say that um i mean as far as like not necessarily experimental that's not the right word or is it more play test yeah it's more like getting getting unbiased people on on it right like i mean even you see the the press release on the site talks about gathering real real world data right and to monitor data and performance and all that all those types of words but yeah that's kind of what it is it's just to get unbiased people on the thing and just let's see that's what i'm interested in i'm interested as far as my side did i do a half decent job of helping you learn how to play the game without being without you having to look at like like a rule set or look at things you know is it as simple to learn as say an indiana jones from Williams or like, you know, an Addams family. You know, you don't need a stretching card to play Addams family. You know? So, did I do a decent job as far as, you know, me personally with the rules to help you play and have fun? And that's really important. And once the shine goes off of the, you know, the fact that you have a game in front of you, a new game, are you having fun shooting the game? Do you want to continue playing it? Really? That's it. That's been your focus since you got there, is just to make sure The game is simple, but it's deep enough for the competitive players. Right, and that's going to be part of it. Yeah, there are definitely going to be some things for the competitive players to figure out, including some purposeful kryptonite in the rules where I'll be able to say, is that a glitch? Nope. Oh, boy. Congrats, you did it. Do it again. Are you going to make Keith P. Johnson scratch his head? No, certainly not. But it's going to be something that's going to be like, is that a mistake? Nope. You found it. I know I'm not going to fix it. Congrats, you did it. Steve, I know you're going to be there, Stephen. What about other Deep Root staff? I will not be the only one there. There will be other staff. There will be other staff there. So I guess you'll learn some of their names as they're there and they're monitoring. And as I pop in and out with my activities, you know, between the tournament and the seminar and the booth. So that will be fun to see some more of them there. and I guess check us out and see that, yeah, we're real people developing a game. Enjoy the prototype. Enjoy the prototype. I see other companies give kind of almost percentages of where the code is at. You know, when a Stern game, for example, comes out, it might be at .85 code. No, I'm not doing that. There's none of that. I don't like those numbers either. I hope we don't use them. I'm not saying we will or not, but I don't like those numbers. version .85 and .86 and, you know, because then once you get the 1.0, does that mean finish? No. Nope. Batman just came out with 1.05 today. Right. So, you know, I hope it's like version 1, version 2, version 3, version 12. You know. Keep it simple. There's no like pseudo version 1 that's like, this is it. No, it's not. You want to improve it more, right? So, you know, that's not going to be up to me anyway, but we'll see. I'll always hope and suggest but uh we'll see steven what is the storyline of retro atomic zombie adventureland i have no idea of course i'm just curious what you could share um only what's on the trailer which you know about right i forget it's so long ago what happened talking about aliens invaded the earth with their martian leader ned and then it was in a graveyard which happened to be in an amusement park and there we go right and then there's also a martian princess and then you're there and zombies and there we go it's terror mayhem in retro atomic zombie adventure land oh yeah it's fun i like it's fun it's fun yeah so uh yeah that's that's the story that can't be revealed thus far there's more but that's all that can be revealed there is what was in the trailer what was the feedback you got on the trailer i i know what i got but uh what did you and the staff at deep root feel about what people said about the trailer well i didn't really hear much pro or con with it i mean i didn't really pay attention to it so i mean i'm sure people said stuff but i just forgot what i mean it covered uh i guess if people comment how it looked and how the um i guess how the trailer looked as far as graphics nice graphics yeah you know whatever but i don't know I didn't really hear much. What did you hear? All I heard was greatest voice ever. I don't know what that means. Yeah, right. Yeah, the voice. No, no, no. You know what I heard? The voice was fantastic. I heard it was fun. Like, just like it made you laugh watching it. And, you know, people obviously were more excited and want to see more pinball to it. But if that's the graphics, whoa, this is going to be fun. What a great animation team you've got there. Yeah, I'm glad people enjoyed the humor. And, yeah, it looks great. I mean, you know, I like looking at it. You know, I'm testing the thing. So I like playing it, and, you know, the voices are fun. The animations, though, are just crazy how good it is. It's like watching a movie. And I enjoy looking at it, and you're going to see more of them. You're definitely going to see more of them. And, like I said, the animations in there are, again, just the prototype. Wow, wow. We'll see. All right, you've said too much, Stephen. I don't want to put your foot in your mouth before. while we're only six days away. How cool is this? I know, right? It's less than a week away. Wow, really? What date does it arrive? Friday? Yeah, it's Friday. Yeah, because Friday is the first day of the show. So, yeah. Now, I get there Thursday night. Do you need help setting up? Maybe. Hey. Maybe you can roll in. Maybe we might need some help setting it up just to get our space and get our bearings and, you know, say our prayers, Just take our vitamins and all that stuff and have some fun and see what everyone thinks about the prototype. Well, you know what? It's different than other games, too. Stern has done very, very well with releasing games. Jersey Jack and some of these other companies, Spooky and all these, American Pinball and everybody, we're used to seeing their launches and stuff. It's rare when you get to see a launch of a new game from a new company. The last time I kind of really remember that, wow, I mean, American did it with Houdini. and our friends at Haggis are doing it with Celts on a smaller scale. And I remember when Woz first came out and was like, wow, that is a game changer too with the screen and got a feeling Deep Root's going to put themselves in that kind of ballpark too. We shall see. I basically can't see anything more. Like I said, I've probably said too much already. I say one of those statements that I guess people say that, oh, don't be upset with what I've said so far. but you know probably not but download this episode quick before it gets deleted that's all i'm gonna say no nothing was nothing has been said that really isn't down already really play it backwards everyone yeah everything yeah play it backwards the zombies from the adventure land will tell you what's going on for real if you play it backwards i'm looking forward to it steven and uh boy this is good will there be a meltdown episode between now and then or no i don't i don't know uh i i never know i you never know like i said you never know there might be one at the event who knows uh there might be one in houston so if you if you think you might want to do a podcast it might happen steven i'll bring the fireball yes i think that just increased the possibilities of a meltdown episode happening right there oh this is going to be good looking forward to seeing you next week, buddy. All right. Thanks very much. Talk to you soon. Thank you very much, Jeff. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at pinballprofile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. Please subscribe on your favorite podcatcher and also follow us on Instagram. Do the same for fun with bonus, too. Thanks to our guest, Steven Bowden. I'm Jeff Teolas.