A lot. Less than half of them. No way. I've been to them. I've seen them. They're amazing. I've watched them. I know. What I'm saying to you is that, yes, obviously it's a marketing exercise because why would Stern do it otherwise? There'd be no reason for them. But to sort of go, well, it's only a marketing. No, it's more than that. And, okay, we're talking about the definitive discussion about pinball tournaments. I would say I've enjoyed Sternaments. That's a nickname given to tournaments that only have Stern machines and tournaments that have got games from all eras, I find them just as enjoyable. I have absolutely no problem being in a tournament that only has Stern machines. So you've got to then look at your audience and determine what they would like. And I think when you do go to the old era of games, like even if you go to EMs and Solid States, I think there's something nice about introducing those games to your audience because a lot of people that are now into tournaments and into pinball are only recently into tournaments and pinball, so they don't know the old stuff. That's true. Yeah, we're over 100,000 unique players in the IFPA. That's pretty incredible. It's a tremendous growth of competitive pinball. I have run tournaments that have featured over 1,000 unique players with the Pinball Profile World Tour, the Played in America Tour, and it's overwhelming the people that do not prefer Sturmance. I would absolutely disagree with that. No, no, no, no. This is the fact. Of the 1,000 people, Sturmance were not preferred because it's just you're playing fewer games, they're playing longer, you don't have a chance against the Eschers and the Jason Zollers and Raymond Davidsons and all the top players whereas lesser players feel, and they're incorrect, They feel, oh, I've got better chance on an EM or a solid state against a better player. That's not true. It's just a perception. And also, it doesn't take an hour to play one game. That's a fact. Actually, I'll tell you what it is, first and foremost. It's what machines you've got access to. You might not actually have access to older games. And also, one thing to note, if you have older games in your tournament, they are more prone to breaking down. So you've got to make sure you've got techs on hand that can fix those immediately. But back to your point, I just think you've got to look at your community that you are bringing together and decide what's best for them. I agree with the last thing you said about older machines. More likely to break down, especially EMs. Maybe it's a score reel. Maybe it's a pop-up or not firing slings, whatever. You definitely have to tech and shop those older machines that are 30, 40 years old. but the modern machines, and I know you work for a company that sells modern machines, you have to bastardize the machines for tournaments. So are you really making, and you have to find the sweet spot. How much are you doing to a machine? You know, I know with the Beast, we went a little overboard on Foo Fighters. We made it very difficult. Extreme tight tilts, tight slings, virtual locks, so you couldn't even lock in the Overlord. You know, it came right back out. It was like, whoa, what's that? Virtual locks. Things like that. We wanted less mechanical failures on machines. Yeah, which is very sound advice to anybody. I guess you could say as well with Stearns, put pros in tournaments, not premiums and LEs, but again, it's what you've got access to. True. Now, that being said, I just said, well, we changed it. In the pump and dump, you can't change the state of a game during the pump and dump, but once the finals start, we can make adjustments, and we did that. We made the tilt a little easier. It was more playable, if you will. Oh, yeah. But you don't want long playing games in pump and dumps. Think about it. Why? Not at all. You want those queue lines to move. So if you're running a pump and dump, and we had top seven games in Maine counted, but we had a bank of 15, and we had over 100 people. I don't know if I ever saw a queue larger than three people. And that was rare if I saw even three. There were games available. Yeah. Now, classics, there were 11 machines. Your best six counted. When the classics qualifying is nearing ending, Of course, you're seeing a bit of a rush, and maybe it would go four deep, five deep, but for the most part, one or two deep the whole weekend because there was, and that's my advice to you if you're running one of these, have more games available. I think of the money we generated, and I think of a pump-and-dump format that I'm going to in September, Cleapin. I've been there several years. I wish, and if anyone from Cleveland's listening, this is my advice to you, do what you want, but have more machines in the bank. Find a way, make more machines in the bank. you will actually make more money and put more money in the pool that way. You don't want long, long queues. Get a few more games in there. That is the best advice I can give you. Yeah, and I'll add to that. And you sort of touched on it before, but I just really want to put a nice yellow highlighter over this, and that is test your games. Play them before. And it was the mistake I made with the last Melbourne Silver Bowl championship in that, you know, we had eight games. There was, you know, there was AMs, there was solid states, and then there was some sterns as well. and we had to set up the bank and start the tournament on pretty much the same day, and I ran out of time and didn't get to play test one of the games, and it was actually Terminator 3, Rise of the Machines. It played so long that I think it had like a 45-minute queue, usually seven or eight people in queue, and two to three on all the other games. What it meant was you can only queue on one game, So if you're queued for 45 minutes for one game, you couldn't queue on any of the others. So it was a big regret that I didn't have enough time to just toughen it up. We did for finals, like you said. But one thing I just wanted to add to that as well, and you sort of touched on it as well with Foo Fighters. I won't name names, but if you have a long playing game and you have to bastardize it so much so it's a short playing game, I guarantee to you it is not a fun game, and it will mean that there's less enjoyment in that tournament. If you've got all games that you've had to do that to, you might have a very competitive tournament, but people aren't going to have fun playing games along the way. Well said. I agree. Yeah, there's got to be a sweet spot. And in surveying the people at the Beast, you know, again, 11 games in the Classics, 15 in the Main, and we even had nine in the Women's Top Five games. The one game that kept coming back was that we made Foo Fighters too tough. But that was it. We had Centaur, not the lovely one that I've ordered from Haggis, the Oblivion. We had the original Centaur, but that's a game that consistently, and I'm sure Haggis is on this, consistently has a problem with multiballs getting confused coming up through that trough or whatever it is. So Adam Becker, you know, when we played, we tested these machines. Bruce Dengel tested all the classics, and I tested the women's and Adam Becker tested the main. We tested them all. Going back to your thing in Melbourne, Silverwall, if you get to that point where, okay, the tournament's going to start, I didn't test this one machine, turn that machine off and bring it in once you have tested it. That's what I would have done, and maybe you could correct that for the future. If you never got around to it, just lay off it until you're ready. That's it. Yeah. It was sort of like you. At the end of the tournament, I looked back and I wrote down a hundred different things, a hundred things that I would do differently the next time. Yeah, I have 27 on my list for the beast so far. And that was the day after. And they're all little things, but easy fixes. But, again, Centaur, yeah, we actually turned off the multi-ball. And there was a sign on there. So when you change a game, by the way, whether it's virtual locks, whether it's removing ball saves, every new Stern game, we removed all ball saves that were possible. Josh is going to laugh because he knows I hate that. But we did. We left the multi-ball ball save relatively decent. and we turned it down a little bit so it's not... Some games are really, really long. I think Mandalorian would be a long one, but we turned them down a little bit so you've earned it. You get a little bit of ball save, but on Rush, you have to earn it. And there's a chance to do it. There's two skill shots right there. Three, I guess. Other games, you can earn some ball save, but we turned all that down. Can I just make a statement? I still remember the first time I was in a tournament where there was no ball save. Oh, my God. That was fucking nerve-wracking. because you could just not get a flip and it's ball over and it's going over. It's like, what the fuck? That's quite nerve-wracking for people to have that tournament. So my advice to people before you go to a tournament is, if you've got a game at home, turn off ball save. Have some practice. Oh, make the tilts tight for sure. Absolutely do all that kind of stuff. Yes, absolutely. But some games require, I think, ball save. Like I think Star Wars would definitely need some sort of ball save. I know you can plunge and plunge to a flipper, but I would still put it on there. That game's very exit-y. But a little bit of ball save would make people, again, enjoy their time more. So Centaur, we turned off the multi-ball. Other games, we did virtual locks. An old game like Bobby Orr's Power Play. I don't know if you see that in Australia. It's kind of a hockey. Yeah. Okay. We disabled the center post Okay So all of these changes you have to have signage on the screen so people can see if extra balls are off or what they were things like that Oh by the way make sure all your extra balls are off in any turn Yes. Yeah. Yep. And also, if you, on the older games, you can't turn extra ball off, make sure it's very clear what the rule is, whether you punch the ball out or whether you play. If you cannot turn off extra balls and that game has to be played, My advice to you is play extra balls because you're not going to be able to police. Yeah, I put a sign up there. Yeah, one flip or plunge extra balls. Who's policing it? No one's policing it. Yeah, it's just too hot. We'll get back to policing in a second. So, again, multi-day tournaments, pump and dump was pretty attractive. Card-based format, so that's in this, that's UK Open, where you're trying to get your best scores on five games, but you don't get to go back to that game over and over again. It's whatever five games you pick, that's your combined score, so you have to be consistent. A lot of people, especially maybe weaker players, are not fans of that because it's very, very difficult. I find that tournament really benefits the better players. You don't have to put up GCs by any means, grand champions. You just have to be consistent, and that's a fun format, but that's nerve-wracking because maybe you got a great first game, you got a great second game, You shit the bed on the third, and now you're desperate to get something decent on four and five. So that's a nerve-wracking format. But, again, it's a form of a pump and dump because you can buy multiple tickets. There's also limited entry. Texas Pinball Festival does that. And there's a reason for that, and you might have to do that too. Maybe time is of the essence. You've got to get out of that building facility at a certain time. So limited, like I think Allentown is like that, another Stern Pro Circuit event. There's a definite place for that. The sweet spot, I've been told by Bob Matthews, is if you get to play every game twice, that's fine. Three times, you're laughing. Any more than that is gravy. So think of that when you're running a limited tournament. How much time, Marty, did you put in before the tournament started for organizing it? Look, I was also assisting with the organizing of the whole event. So for me, it was six weeks. Six weeks, that's it? Yep. almost six months for me for this. So this one little weekend tournament, and there was no show to it, like Melbourne Silver Bowl. Sure, okay. But remember, this is the third time I put on this event, so a lot of the stuff I had to work out for the first time I worked out. Ah, yeah, yeah. So the first time probably was more in the months as opposed to weeks. Oh, gotcha. Absolutely. When you're putting together a tournament, you have to hopefully answer every question that could possibly be asked. Mm-hmm. And think of that before you start the tournament. Experience in being in a lot of tournaments certainly helps. I had somebody reach out to me from Quebec, and they really want to start a league, and they were asking for some advice, and I gave them my advice, and they had mentioned that they had never played in a tournament or in a league before, and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, better walk before you run. Do that first before you start running a league. What if there are no leagues, though? You have to start somewhere else. I showed them the IFP calendar, and within an hour drive, At worst case scenario, you'll probably find some sort of tournament or one-off event on the IFPA calendar. That's a must. You've got to see how things are scored, for one thing, how the TDs work. The TDs, anybody can be a TD, but you should really read the IFPA POPL rules. Have to. So, can I just make a full-stop point right now? And that is exactly what that person from Quebec did. if you want to start a tournament, reach out to somebody that does tournaments and get some advice. That's your first step right there. I've got notes. I'm not going to miss anything, but there'll be some jumping back and forth. I just mentioned about the rules. And after the beast, there were a bunch of us that had dinner and it was brought up by, we were all friends. A friend said, you know what would be a great idea? And I agreed with this person. It would be great if TDs had to pass a test. And it's simple. All the information's on the rules and just be TD certified. I thought, that's not a bad idea. Someone's got to administer that, and I don't know who could do that. So I'm talking about the theory of the idea. I like the idea of it, but, you know, the logistics, that's for someone else to figure out. But I thought that was kind of neat, to be able to be qualified, if you will, to be a TD. Yeah, I kind of agree. I think there's a merit to that. However, finding TDs that don't want to be in a tournament, is slim pickings to begin with. So it's a way to let down, you know. Keep going. You probably got another point about that. Well, there were two points at this dinner table. They were all complimentary of the beast and whatnot, and the one person was very frank and said, it was a well-run tournament, but the one thing I wish, and I wish this of all tournaments, not just yours, I wish tournament directors and techs were not allowed to play in tournaments. And before I give my answer, they said, you know, I explained this to someone who's not in pinball, and they couldn't believe, what? You policed your own thing? and there was a matter of can this ever be taken seriously if you do that? And I said, you know what? I can't disagree with you. The optics of it are questionable for sure. The logistics of it, good luck. Because I'll tell you right now, I'm not running the beast and going back and forth over five months across a country, like to a different country to set up this event if I don't get to play in it. I don't get paid for doing this. Okay, that was going to be my point. My payment is I get to play in it. Yep. And I say that because every year, you know, I have a small, small part in helping the crew at InDisc. And my number one thing I say every year, Carl will admit it, Jim will admit it, is that I wish Carl and Jim played in InDisc. They're putting on this wonderful event and they don't play in it. Carl's just too worried about making sure everything goes well. That's the utmost respect for that. but it breaks my heart that hundreds of people come to this wonderful event that is now a major, and they don't get to participate in it. And I would never question any kind of legitimacy of the tournament because we all know these people, and I'm fine with TDs playing in it. They just can't rule on their own games. I would say if you're then going to say TDs and techs shouldn't be able to play in the tournament, then they should 100% be paid. Yeah, that was the deal. Yeah, for sure. The person at the dinner table said, I would like to see a tech and a TD be paid. Maybe it's $300 a day to do this. And it was just a number out of the top of my head. There was no rhyme or reason. And I said to the person, I said, I wouldn't do it for $3,000. Sure. I'm serious. Like, I wouldn't put the months of putting this together. No, you know I didn't play in mind as well for exactly that reason, because I didn't want to be, let's say, I was playing a game, and something happens to the tournament that I'm running and I can't fix it. You've just got to be on the ball. Yep. So I come back to my point, though, which is where do you get these people? Who are these people that are going to travel miles and miles and miles to come to an event and just get paid for it? And what sort of money would you get paid for it? It's not a lot of money. I just don't think you'd find people. And where does that money come from? It comes from that $10,000 and $15,000 that I'm playing the players. Correct. That being said, I said, I agree, the optics don't look good. There could be questionable things. All you can do is be transparent. And there were multiple TDs, multiple techs, and I just said, you know, when it comes to techs changing the games, we've said, here are the changes that are made. So in a pump-and-dump format, even if you, wow, that felt weird, you can always play it again. Limited entry? Okay, maybe there's some questions there. And I said to the person who said, we should have TDs be paid and run tournaments. And I said, sounds great. Do you know that's available right now? That can be done. Not too many people are doing it. Very few are doing it. Eric Thorne, who does incredible work at District 82, runs massive, massive events. And, you know, he plays in it too. He doesn't, I don't know if he plays in all of them, but if he does, he's, anyway, runs a tight ship or whatever. But there are lots of TVs and stuff, and I don't ever question that kind of stuff. I can imagine to somebody outside of pinball, they're wondering, how is that possible? If it was baseball, you have neutral umpires and referees and football and soccer, but that's what we do. But again, what you're sort of talking about is that it's this really weird situation where we want it to be governed like a proper sport. It's not big enough, and there's not enough money in it to be governed like a proper sport. The big, big, big events in disc, Carl's doing that. My God, Papa and Pinberg, the staff that they have. They don't exist. But they don't exist. So we're talking about today. They paid their, you know, they compensated their staff members, and that's great. And so they should be if they're not playing. But smaller events, it would be tough to do so, and that would... That's what I'm saying today. And when we're talking about big tournaments, and if you think about how many really would fall into that category, there's probably, what, would there be 20 tournaments? Not even. Yeah. You know what I mean? Five. So I just think it's a fair comment to make where people say TDs and techs shouldn't play. The reality is this is still a dinky hobby. It is not high-stakes sport. It's just not yet. Maybe it never will. Yeah. The solution would be the money's got to come from somewhere, and right now, because the money isn't big, we give it back to the players, and I'm fine with that. I remember years ago. I remember years ago, and maybe the tide has shifted somewhat, but there was a big tournament that I went to, and someone was paid as a tech, and there were some people bitching about it in the corner, going, oh, that could have been prize money. Are you fucking kidding me? Somebody. Do you know who bitched? I'll tell you who bitched. Somebody who's never run a tournament. Correct.