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The Pinball Show Ep 124: Foo Fighters VS The Godfather VS GTF! VS TNA 2: Carbon Copy

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 13m·analyzed·Feb 28, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Stern announces Foo Fighters; GTF and Harry Potter rumors dominate pinball news cycle.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses major game announcements from Stern (Foo Fighters), American Pinball (Galactic Tank Force/GTF), and Jersey Jack Pinball (Harry Potter LE rerun or new variant). Hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel analyze design teams, pricing, market demand, and speculate on upcoming releases while debating game quality and design philosophy.

Key Claims

  • Stern Pinball's Foo Fighters will use Jack Danger on design, Tanya Kleiss on code, and Zombie Yeti on artwork

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's news segment reports this as believed/rumored team composition; hosts confirm details

  • Foo Fighters pricing expected to match previous Cornerstone releases: $6,999 Pro, $9,699 Premium, $12,999 LE with 1,000 LE units

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis cite standard Stern Cornerstone pricing tier structure

  • Jersey Jack Pinball teased three movie franchises (Wizard of Oz, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Harry Potter) suggesting either a Harry Potter rerun or new variant

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports JJP founder Jack Guarneri's cryptic social media post with three character photos

  • The Godfather was possibly a codename or misdirection for Harry Potter as Jersey Jack's next release

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby speculates on whether Godfather rumors were intentional trolling or actual codename

  • American Pinball's GTF features Dennis Nordman design with Chris Franchi artwork and tank-themed cabinet with mock treads as rear legs

    high confidence · Craig Bobby provides detailed description of game's physical design and art package

  • Foo Fighters theme is attracting unexpectedly strong demand, with numerous customer inquiries about LE availability

    high confidence · Zach reports being 'slammed with messages' requesting LE units despite skepticism about band fan base size

  • Jack Danger has publicly stated he wants to 'make pinball weird again' and the Foo Fighters design is intentionally different from typical Stern layouts

    medium confidence · Dennis cites secondhand reports from people who have seen the design; Jack Danger referenced as making public statements about design philosophy

  • Foo Fighters reveal expected this week with Pro models shipping within 2-3 weeks to arcades

    medium confidence · Zach projects typical Stern rollout timeline based on historical patterns

Notable Quotes

  • “There are a lot of Foo Fighters fans. It's, you know, Stern does not, again, I guess I can't say always, but pretty much Stern doesn't really pick bad themes anymore.”

    Zach Minney @ ~14:00 — Reflects confidence in Stern's theme selection strategy and surprise at Foo Fighters' market appeal

  • “I do think that the Deadpool ruleset, it's one of my favorites out of Modern Stern, because it's so approachable... I don't think Deadpool is unapproachable.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~28:00 — Establishes preference for accessible but deep rulesets; uses Deadpool as benchmark for Foo Fighters code expectations under Tanya Kleiss

  • “I do prefer story-based pins to straight-up band pins... So we're going to get more of this as Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle or even Iron Maiden than we are this being solely an ACDC pin.”

    Zach Minney @ ~35:00 — Articulates design philosophy preference for narrative integration over pure band theming; positions Foo Fighters favorably as story-driven

  • “Bond is just... it has stumbled so hard that I'm very curious about if its sales are – I don't think it can recover.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~48:00 — Expresses concern about Bond pinball's market viability; contrasts with Zach's optimism

  • “That thing is going to have the trajectory of a Rush pinball. Mark my word. It's going to have the trajectory of a Rush pinball, but more the feel of a Batman 66.”

    Zach Minney @ ~49:00 — Predicts Bond will recover through code updates; uses Rush and Batman 66 as comparable recovery examples

  • “Because, guys, I don't know if anyone is hearing this aside from me. But, Stern, let me just say, it feels like someone's put baby in the corner here. You need to let Raymond do a story-based game.”

    Zach Minney @ ~38:00 — Advocates for designer Raymond (likely Raymond Davidson) to work on narrative-focused games vs. band pins; reveals internal casting preferences

  • “And the whole etiology or the whole conception of what Foo Fighter is, it comes from World War II, aliens, UFO. So I love that we're making this into a story rather than just basing this game on Foo Fighters.”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyFoo FightersgameJack DangerpersonZombie YetipersonTanya KleisspersonAmerican PinballcompanyGalactic Tank Force (GTF)gameDennis Nordmanperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Foo Fighters announcement attracting unexpectedly strong customer demand with numerous inquiries about LE availability despite host skepticism about band fan base

    high · Zach reports 'I get slammed with messages, do you have any LEs left?' and acknowledges 'I was dead wrong. There are a lot of Foo Fighters fans'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jack Danger publicly advocates for 'weird pinball' design and Foo Fighters confirmed as story-driven (alien battle theme) rather than pure band documentation

    medium · Dennis cites 'Jack has been public about saying things like he wants to make pinball weird again' and reports from those who seen design indicate 'it is different'; Zach praises 'we're fighting aliens. The whole etiology... comes from World War II, aliens, UFO'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern expected to reveal full Foo Fighters details this week with Pro models shipping to arcades within 2-3 weeks, following typical cornerstone rollout cadence

    medium · Zach predicts 'Stern Pinball reveals this coming week... within a couple weeks they've already got pro models on a boat or a plane going overseas for exports' and Dennis guesses '2, 3 weeks' for arcade distribution

  • $

    market_signal: Foo Fighters announcement suggests strong appeal to 1990s-era band fans and potentially new pinball enthusiasts, with hosts reporting educational outreach to non-pinball audience

    high · Zach notes 'I've also noticed, maybe this is just my luck, but I've had more so new people coming into pinball, messaging me about the potential food fighters... so maybe this is a theme that will bring newer people into pinball'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.399

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:12
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week we got a hell of a show for you. Maybe our best work, and what can I say? Numbers don't lie. Dennis and I chat shatter dreams to original themes. From food fighting to a GTF sighting. GTF! From booty rates to production updates. From drunk lions to bye-bye buy-ins. From I can't believe it's not Potter to pinball market trends not getting much hotter. This is episode 124, and you're welcome.
0:51
I've got another confession to make. Pinball is a game of spill Everyone's got the chains to break For some, it's a passion in the lifestyle Don't give up until you get there
1:14
It's time for the pinball spill It's Pinball with personality. It's episode 124 of the Pinball Show. And we're your favorite hosts with the most, Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel. How's it going, Din Din? Oh, it's going all right. I haven't had to clean up anything. clean up aisle van.
1:53
Man, I know we're jumping right into it, but I've got a sore neck, sore back. I've been traveling the last couple days picking up pinball machines, dropping off pinball machines. People are late. I'm sitting in parking lots. Just announcing a new game and I'm in the parking lot trying to answer emails really quick and I drive off and all of a sudden I hear something thump in the back of my van, and then I hear almost like cascading water trickling down a brook. Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug. And I said, you know what? That's no water. That is tiny shards of glass filling up the interior of my back van. Like a gentle rain. Oh, yeah. That's the first glass I've ever broke, listener. Ever? Have you ever broke a sheet of glass?

Zach Minney @ ~36:00 — Praises Stern's decision to build narrative around UFO/alien theme rather than pure band documentation

  • “I would guess, given we're hearing all these reports and there's some other stuff we're going to talk about later in this episode, I would think no. I don't know that this is the strongest package of the year.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~20:00 — Suggests Foo Fighters trailer/animation style not award-winning; implies other upcoming games may exceed it artistically

    • Chris Franchiperson
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Jack Guarneriperson
    Harry Pottergame
    The Godfathergame
    Eric Minierperson
    Zach Minneyperson
    Dennis Creaselperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Stumbler Pinballperson
    The Pinball Showorganization
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent

    personnel_signal: Conversation reveals concern about Raymond (designer) being underutilized on band-themed games; hosts advocate for giving him story-based game design opportunities

    medium · Zach states 'Stern, let me just say, it feels like someone's put baby in the corner here. You need to let Raymond do a story-based game. Quit putting him on the music pen'

  • ?

    announcement: American Pinball announced Galactic Tank Force (GTF), fifth long-awaited machine by Dennis Nordman with Chris Franchi art and tank-themed cabinet design

    high · Craig Bobby describes GTF announcement with detailed playfield and cabinet design specifications, cabinet includes mock tank tracks as rear legs

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball officially announced Foo Fighters cornerstone game via teaser trailer with custom alien battle animations

    high · Craig Bobby reports 'Stern released its first teaser trailer last week, confirming that, in fact, their next machine will be in the theme of the Dave Grohl-fronted Foo Fighters'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern moving Foo Fighters toward narrative-driven game design with alien/UFO storyline rather than straightforward band theming, similar to Iron Maiden and Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle models

    high · Zach explicitly states preference for 'story-based pins' and notes Foo Fighters follows pattern of thematic integration like 'Iron Maiden' and 'Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Jersey Jack Pinball posted cryptic teaser showing Wizard of Oz, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and Harry Potter characters, suggesting Harry Potter rerun or new variant announcement

    medium · Craig Bobby reports 'Jersey Jack Pinball decided to get in on the pinball reveal train this past week, posting a tease photo online' with Jack Guarneri caption 'I'd hold on to my money for a few more days'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Bond pinball recovery trajectory strongly debated; Dennis expresses recovery doubt while Zach predicts long-term success comparable to Rush with eventual code improvements

    medium · Dennis: 'it has stumbled so hard that I'm very curious about if its sales are – I don't think it can recover'; Zach: 'That thing is going to have the trajectory of a Rush pinball... It just needs code'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Foo Fighters teaser trailer animation style appears inconsistent with Zombie Yeti's typical artistic aesthetic (fine-line, separated colors) vs. observed 90s grungy style

    medium · Dennis states 'it didn't look like zombie yeti artwork' and notes typical style has 'fine line work, pops of separated colors' but teaser shows 'more 90s grungy kind of thing'

    • 2:46
    Um, no. Actually, I have not. Oh. It's coming. Not a pinball sheet of glass. I've broken glass. Yeah, well, yeah. You know. I hate that. Figure it out. I hate when you break a kitchen glass. I get so mad. I was telling Nicole, like, why are we, we've got four kids. Why are we doing glass? There's no, let's do plastic. I don't care if there's carcinogens. Just come on.
    3:11
    Damn. Old McDonald's cups with lead paint. Like, let's do something. I just see all your kids just, like, drinking their milk out of wood.
    3:24
    You get, like, a lathe, and you just start making wood cups. That's right. Drinking those old lead paint collector glasses from the goffs. They're growing gills and shit. Grimace on the side. That's right. They're growing grimace frickin' heads. So, was it a playfield glass, or was it a back glass? I thought I got lucky. I was like, maybe it's just a back glass. You know, not a back glass, but just a piece of glass in a Translight, because it was a Translight game. But no, it was the Playfield glass in the game, of course.
    3:58
    And very, very appropriate title to the nightmare that was the cleanup that I had when I got home. It was Nightmare on Elm Street. Oh. That's what happens when you buy a Gottlieb. I've never played that one. I've never seen it available to play. And see, I've not had enough time on it either, and I love the theme. So, selfishly, I took it in on trade because I was like, you know what? I just love this theme. And I've never owned that series of a Gottlieb. You know, that's going to be a nightmare alone. And then I had to deal with this. So, I think people want the detail. I don't want to give the detail. Because I didn't. No, I didn't. You know what? I was in a hurry. I tell you, Stern, they say announce the game. I got to get home. I got to take orders. I'm missing out on my orders. Have you thought, and I know this is bold because it requires a whole new rap, like on your band and everything, but have you thought about renaming from Flippin' Out to Fuckin' Up?
    4:55
    Figure it out. It needs to be Jason's pinball party's new thing. Fuckin' Up. Oh, Fuckin' Up. Pinball. That's truly what happened. I was in a hurry, man. I understand, but you know the old saying, speed kills. I still think it was a Gottlieb thing. You know how many Sally Williams I've had back there? They're glass. They cut corners on their glass. I had. I think it's more bobbly. I think the Gottliebs are more bobbly. There's only one bobbly, and that's Bobbly Bobo in Godhead. Yeah, I've not bobbly bowed it over, but I did on this one. Oh, it was ugly. I got mostly glass out, I think.
    5:35
    The gloves probably got shards in it still. The child's going to try and fix something eventually when they own the game and cut their hand. Yeah, and then Freddy's going to come for them. Right. Oh, my God. One, two, Freddy's coming. Is that not a great theme? I just love that theme. It is a good theme.
    5:52
    It's probably, well, other than Halloween, I would say, it's probably the best horror theme that I think's been done in pinball. But people can write into the pinballnetwork at gmail.com if they've got a better pick. Wow, that's a good. Yeah, so the whole weekend for me was very horror-based, spooky-based, kooky-based. I got a scared stiff that came in as well. Mmm. And also, we unboxed Scooby-Doo. Ruh-roh. Yeah, so more on that in the show to come. Have you installed your scrappy figurine yet? Let me at him. I did not.
    6:29
    I did not. It was an eventful weekend. Speaking of eventful, I think Craig Bobby's got a lot of stuff for us. I see what you did there. Nicely done.
    6:47
    Hello and welcome back to the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. There are times in pinball where, let's face it, nothing too much is happening. These new machines take money, planning, and tons of development time to bring us the final masterpiece product that we lovingly call Modern Pinball. So there's generally a lot of downtime, sometimes even months, between new game announcements. But then, when you least expect it, out of the blue, this happens. Yes, the rumors are true. After much speculation and debate, Stern Pinball released its first teaser trailer last week, confirming that, in fact, their next machine will be in the theme of the Dave Grohl-fronted Foo Fighters. Now, it's still not known a whole lot about what the machine will look like, but Stern did show off the video assets for the game, which appear to be custom-drawn animations of the Foo Fighters battling aliens. And while Stern's newest designer and Twitch pinball personality, Jack Danger, is the rumored lead designer for this game, with Zombie Yeti on art and Tanyo Kleiss doing the game's code, it appears that Stern will go back to their tried-and-true marketing strategy of releasing more images and video trailers for the game next week as the game prepares to go on sale this Tuesday, February 28th. Speaking of going on sale, this past week, Stern also posted on social media, wishing the star of Netflix's Stranger Things series, Millie Bobby Brown, a happy birthday. At the end of the post, Stern added, Was Stern just talking about how the show, which may return for season 5 as soon as 2024? Or were they talking about doing another run of Stranger Things pinball, which people in the hobby have been clamoring for since the original one was stopped over a year ago, sending prices sky-high on the secondary market. But hold on, Stern Pinball, not so fast. Hot on the heels of Stern's new release announcement comes another, this time from Stern competitor American Pinball, announcing their own animated teaser trailer for their next and fifth long-awaited machine, the upcoming new Dennis Nordman-designed... Galactic Tank Force! GTF! Now, from what I've seen, the game is just packed with cool mechs, toys, and ramps, along with some very nice Chris Franchi art that ultimately gives buyers a chance to own this non-licensed animated space theme machine that sort of reminds me of the now-defunct Deep Root Pinball with their promised Razzle Space Alien machine, but could never deliver on. Now, what is crazy about GTF is not the playfield design or the art package, They look totally dope. But the game's cabinet design, which on the highest trim level, is off the charts tank-like, with mock-up tank tracks on the side of the cabinet that double as rear legs, with a small turret on the head that, when folded down, creates, you guessed it, a giant galactic tank force pinball tank?
    10:01
    He's just crazy. Okay, anyway, these images could also just be prototype or promotional images that I've seen that will be more for trade shows and reveal videos and not available when the machine goes on sale. But wait, there's even more reveal news this week. Even Jersey Jack Pinball decided to get in on the pinball reveal train this past week, posting a tease photo online of Jersey Jack founder Jack Guarneri standing in front of three giant movie character photos with his arms spread wide. One photo was of Dorothy and the lion from The Wizard of Oz. There's no place like home. The second photo above that was of Gene Wilder playing Willy Wonka from the movie Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. There is no earthly way of knowing which direction we are going. But the third photo on the left could definitely be a blockbuster newsflash, if it's true. No, it was not a character from The Godfather, which is rumored to be their next game, like Al Pacino or Marlon Brando playing members of the Corleone family. But instead, it was a photo of, wait for it, Ron Weasley from none other than one of the most hallowed of pinball scene franchises on planet Earth, Harry Potter. Say what? With the caption underneath the photo from Jack reading, quote, I'd hold on to my money for a few more days, dot, dot, dot, open mouth wow emoji? Say what? Now this flies straight into the face of literally months of rumors and speculation that the next Jersey Jack title will be most assuredly the Godfather and being designed by GNR designer Eric Minier. But could it be that the Godfather was simply J.J.P.'s codename and a giant ruse meant to throw the entire pinball hobby off the scent of the real Godfather theme of pinball, Harry Potter? Or instead, was it the godfather of all pinball trolls? Well, you know what I say, we shall have to wait and see. And last but certainly not least, we have word this week that the king of all pinball modders, yes, Stumbler Pinball, who was the winner of the 2022 Twippy for Best Pinball Mod of the Year for his Tokyo Neon Sign mod, has now released his third, and quite possibly best mod yet, of a 3D neon-lit, blown-out ramen building that encompasses the right ramp at the back of the cabinet in Stern Pinball's Godzilla. Take a peek at Stumbler's trailer and reveal images on Pinside and on his website, and I think you'll agree, this has to be one of the coolest pinball mods ever created with incredible brick and destruction detail, animated King Ghidorah neon, animated ramen neon with noodles, animated electrical spark, animated windows, animated neon-side border, and the final signature touch of all of that animated neon light being fully programmable. Wow, it's really Christmas time in February for pinball this week. Lots of late nights and bourbon down here in the pinball newsroom as those pinball manufacturers all start to gear up to lure intent buyers with their awesome pinball merchandise at the upcoming world-famous 2023 Texas Pinball Festival in late April. What a show that will be this year. Well, that's all for this week, and thanks so much for listening. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    13:37
    Ooh, Craig Bobby swinging for the fences. I think he heard your comment last week or the week before. Well, I mean, I wasn't meaning to throw shade, per se. I'm just telling it like it is. Wow, he came out with all kinds of info. I'm not even sure that's all accurate info. I don't know if it is. We can discuss it. It's the clicks. We'll start with King with Stern Pinball, and that is them revealing a teaser of their next Cornerstone game. It's Foo Fighters.
    14:10
    It is. Long-rumored Foo Fighters. Long-rumored. Yeah, we believe it to be Jack Danger on design, Tanya Klyce and team on code, and Zombie Yeti on artwork. It's also believed that the LE units and the model pricing are going to remain the same as previous Cornerstone releases. That would be 1,000 units of LEs. It would be $69.99 MSRPs for the Pros, $96.99 for the Premium, and $12,999 for the Limited Edition models. And we're guessing that a reveal is imminent, probably this week. Yeah, I would assume so. So, I mean, normally, I would have said that's always the pattern, but Bond changed that up. So I'll say it's normally the pattern. Now, did you see the teaser trailer of this? I did. I didn't see it when it dropped. I've been so busy work-wise. And prior to recording, Zach's already heard me whine about that. So I won't bore the listeners with what all is going on in my life because that is not why they're listening. Well, it wasn't boring. Well, but it's not relevant to pinball, and that's the point. So, yeah, I did. I ended up seeing the trailer. And I am, well, I'm too old really to be embarrassed about what I don't know. I'm too old to be embarrassed about what I don't know. But I don't really know Foo Fighters as part of the problem. Too old to be a Foo fan. Well, no, I think I'm the right age to be a Foo fan. The problem is just that I, like, listening to the, watching the Teaser and hearing the music, I didn't know the song. I didn't know it. Nope. I know of the band. And again, this isn't new for me. Like, I don't know Iron Maiden's music. either, so when that one was teased, I was like, okay, I've heard of them, but I just don't know the music. This is the theme that it doesn't do anything for me, because aside from knowing the band name, I know nothing about them. I've probably heard a number of their songs. It wasn't, like, I never owned an album. What about this one?
    16:12
    Yeah, I know that song. Okay. So is that the only song in the game? Because then I'll be okay. They're singing about you because you're my hero, Daniel.
    16:22
    That's kind of creepy. They do have great music. I've said that in the past. Now, here's what surprised me. I didn't know that there were so many Foo fans out there. I'm here to say this is nearly crow-toe worthy, my friend. because out of the woodwork, I get slammed with messages, do you have any LEs left? And I'm like, I haven't even seen this damn game. What are you talking about? We have LEs left. I'm going to be honest. I thought, you know, as the prices keep increasing for Stern, $13,000, I was like, if they're doing 1,000 LEs, I thought, well, are there enough Foo Fighters fans? I was dead wrong. There are a lot of Foo Fighters fans. It's, you know, Stern does not, again, I guess I can't say always, but pretty much Stern doesn't really pick bad themes anymore. I mean, what was the worst theme that they picked? I'd say Monsters was probably the biggest miss of a theme they picked in recent memory. And that's still a pretty popular thing. I would have kind of guessed Rush, but I was wrong there, too. Yeah, and I could have seen that. I was more familiar with Rush, so, again, that would have been an instance where I would have leaned more of Rush to Foo Fighters. But talking to some other folks, yeah, no, they were also like, if not, they either were big into excitement about this being Foo Fighters, or, as I was talking to Zach earlier, I know someone else who, well, they're not a huge Foo Fighters fan. Their hope is that this does very, very well because they would like to see other bands that are maybe more known to 90s kids start to get things like Nirvana or something. You know, bands that I know. Yeah, and I think Munsters is a good call there. That was a little bit out of right field.
    18:10
    Munsters was, I hate to go off on a tangent because we're talking about Foo Fighters, but the thing with Munsters, I remember that game, it still did initially very, very well, and I think that was because of the franchise art package. But it was pretty old of a license to run with, especially given there was nothing recent to refresh people's memory on it. We didn't have a new Munsters TV show, to my knowledge, or movie or anything to tie in to make people care about that anymore. And I never watched the TV show, and I watched a lot of Nick at Night stuff, and other than catching a couple episodes, I don't know the original show of that. I think maybe, what about Black Knight? Sort of, right? I mean, maybe that. You know, I always assumed, and probably wrongly, because I just make up these assumptions, obviously, was that that was to appease Steve Ritchie, because I thought he'd, from getting frustrated that he was always stuck with all these licenses that had really restrictive rules on them. Really? I heard otherwise. I heard that it wasn't a Steve Ritchie thing. It was actually a... Yeah, I heard it was maybe a marketer-licensor kind of push.
    19:19
    And, yeah, that's what I heard. Okay, well, that's a good one, because if it's a license that's only known for pinball, no. It's not a... That's not a... It's licensed, but almost licensed in name only, a lino. And linos just aren't that attractive of an animal to hunt. A lino. Please, is that original? Yeah. Did you just make that up? I made it up. I made it up because sometimes, again, not. I almost thought it was good enough that it probably has been used before. I mean, not that I've heard of it. But then again, I didn't think it was good enough for you to rehash it from someone else. No, I don't think it's that good. I'd say it's because, again, because... A drunk lion, right? No, well, the whole... Because I've been busy in state with a lot of legislative stuff. That's what the conservatives call the Republicans they don't like are Republicans in name only, rhinos. So this is a lino. So that's where I stole the idea. I've never heard of lino for license and name only. That's what I'm going with. It's a lino. I just picture that. I just picture, yeah, a drunk lion. And, like, when I woke up in the morning, she was a wildebeest. I'm not even lying. But, I mean, you know how a lot of people, like, want to see a sequel to Whitewater. That's a lino license. Oh. Only pinball people would know it. And I've also noticed, maybe this is just my luck, but I've had more so new people coming into pinball, messaging me about the potential food fighters, because I'm teaching a lot of people about pinball that I'm not used to as much as on other themes. So maybe this is a theme that will bring newer people into pinball. Because, yeah, over the last couple of days, I'm like, okay, well, no, here's how it works. Pro, premium, LE. They don't sell direct. They sell a handful of LEs direct, but otherwise no pro and premiums. You go through that whole thing for a lot of people. It's, I mean, it does feel like a move to a different era of music, which I think a lot of people are looking forward to. What about the trailer itself? Did that excite you? Because I'm guessing that's the animation style and probably the overall artistic style that they're going with for the looks of this game. No, not really. Meaning, doesn't really do anything for you? No, I didn't think one way or another about it. Doesn't tickle your lino? No.
    21:52
    But it didn't look, my thing was, because people are raving this trailer, to me it didn't look like zombie yeti artwork. Well, if it's the animations, why would it be? I was waiting for that, and my rebuttal would be, well, because typically you try to keep the artistic style similar throughout the UI and the external cabinet art. I would want consistency, right? Well, maybe he has gone with a different approach on the play field. I know there's kind of a, and I have this view, too, so almost like there's a zombie yeti style that we've kind of gotten used to. But if I think back to Ghostbusters, it doesn't look to me like all of his other stuff. No, but Ghostbusters looks closer to turtles than this does to anything, if this is the style they're going with. That is a fair point. I don't know. Until we see, all we can do is speculate. Because like Zamba Yeti, I'm thinking fine line work. I'm thinking pops of separated colors, I'm thinking. But this is more 90s grungy kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's it. And that's not a style I'm particularly fond of, but I don't really dislike it. So I am fairly indifferent. Like, it's not, you know, it doesn't make me a wino. It doesn't make you go either way. Right, I don't need to drink after looking at it. But I also, you know, would be interested in, like, if we're talking, let's talk awards. Like, would this win an award over some other animation style? And currently, I would say, given we're hearing all these reports and there's some other stuff we're going to talk about later in this episode, I would think no. I don't know that this is the strongest package of the year. But, again, the year is young. It's also interesting to note that Zombie Yeti has yet, I think this is objective, has yet to make a bad art package. and I believe that when it comes to awards and recognition, every time he has had one during an official awards year, he wins. So we'll see if it holds up here. A lot of people are excited about the possible rule set and code by Tanya Spice, too. Tanya, Tanya, whichever way you want to go. Yeah, I'm going to start Tanya, but that doesn't surprise me. I mean, I think a lot of people were very pleased with where Deadpool ended up. Oh, yeah. And because of that, you know, he's been busy working on Insider Connected, so we haven't seen another game with him lead on. So, actually, of all the stuff I know so far about Foo Fighters, that's the part that excites me the most, because I do think that the Deadpool ruleset, it's one of my favorites out of Modern Stern, because it's so approachable. It really is. Without, you know, sometimes I feel like there's this perception with homeowners that you need to have depth, and I agree that you do, but the way a lot of them do it is I think it gets almost unapproachable, but I don't think Deadpool is unapproachable. I couldn't agree with you more. The question mark here would be we don't really know what Jack Danger is like as a designer. He did do the Jurassic Park home version, and a lot of people really like that layout, but I still feel like it's a little bit apples and oranges, and my ignorance here is I'm not a designer, so I sure as hell don't know, but I would guess it to be a little bit different. So that's kind of a question mark as to how that's going to turn out. Sure. We don't know what his quote-unquote style is yet because how can we tell from one game? And the bill of materials obviously is different on a home game versus a cornerstone. Jack, I know, has been public about saying things like he wants to make pinball weird again. And I have heard, this is probably secondhand at this point, from those that have purportedly seen this design, that it is different. It is a different style. So, taking him at his word, if he's going weird, you know, I don't. Here's where I'm at. And again, as a guest, I'm expecting to see something that reminds me more of Gottlieb Premier than WMS in terms of layout. And I actually like a lot of the Premier layout stuff that they went with. I always thought Gottlieb's biggest problem wasn't their layout. It was they were so rushed with their parallel development that their rules often suffered for it. The big gold wings thing?
    26:10
    They can't all be winners. I can't believe the gold wings layout. But I think they have some very interesting layouts that if the rules had been better balanced, would have been very, very good, very competitive games against WMS. So, again, I don't know because also, you know, having back when I watched more streams and watched Jack's streams, He doesn't seem to be an especially big Gottlieb fan per se, but when I hear weird, that's what I think of. And maybe that's just because we saw those games less. Well, his homebrew layout was nothing short of weird, the one that he was developing. Yeah, but wasn't that one like the stream was helping come up with ideas and stuff? So, again, how much of his own personality is in it and how much of it was crowdsourcing the development? I've seen streams where he has said that his Cornerstone game is weird. and he was worried about the reception of people. I think if you're going to go with a weird layout, now is the time, honestly, because people are looking for some difference. That's why Elwynn is working so well. Exactly. That was the one that, before people even played them, to realize how good the Elwynn designs are, the big thing that I remember hearing from people when Elwynn games were starting to come out were, this doesn't look like a typical Stern. and I think it was because we got very used to seeing the same designers at Stern and Elwin, he's his own person. We were used to Richie and Borg. Yeah, it was like Richie, Borg for a long time and so Jack is in that same boat. He's someone new and he's going to have his own thoughts and I'm very excited to see what the layout is because I do think it's going to be different. Now, I don't know if I'll like it or I'll hate it, but I'm glad that they tried it. So I'll say that up front. I think one of the greatest things that this new cornerstone has going for it, Dennis and listener, is the fact that Stern Creative Team decided we're not doing just a band pin. Let's do this with a story. We're fighting aliens. The whole etiology or the whole conception of what Foo Fighter is, it comes from World War II, aliens, UFO. So I love that we're making this into a story rather than just basing this game on Foo Fighters. I just don't know if that holds up. So we're going to get more of this as Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle or even Iron Maiden than we are this being solely an ACDC pin. Hmm. Okay. That's so smart. So, so smart. I do prefer story-based pins to straight-up band pins. Hell, yeah. So, yeah, I do like that general direction. Is that why Raymond's not on this one?
    28:59
    He's screaming, airport! I know he listens. Airport! I know he listens. I was like, I have this. Because, guys, I don't know if anyone is hearing this aside from me. But, Stern, let me just say, it feels like someone's put baby in the corner here. You need to let Raymond do a story-based game. Quit putting him on the music pen. Let him free! He's a peacock. You've got to let him fly. Yes, alongside me.
    29:24
    Oh, my gosh. People in the forum just... There was some... Did we get that message in the forum? There were some people that were really angry about the animal sounds lately. Oh, yeah, I think so, because I think I read it. I didn't know if that was on Podbean comments. It was somewhere, but people... No, I think it was a forum. Well, it doesn't matter. People wanted me to take a peacock and shove it somewhere that's not as colorful as its feathers.
    29:46
    I understand when people get upset when the animals are too loud, like the eagle. And the screaming goat. And the goat, yeah.
    29:55
    But they just don't get it. Let the loon. You've got to let him warble. Let the loon. You've got to let the loon warble. One doesn't de-warble a loon. No.
    30:09
    Oh, man. A lot of people are excited about this next cornerstone. Then again, it's hard to stop the Stern Pinball freight train. So I'm sure there's a great chance that it's going to be great, just like everything else they've been producing as of late. Well, I can't, you know, again, this is bold without knowing the rules, without seeing the layout. But could it really do worse than Bond?
    30:35
    Oh, my gosh. Bond is just, I'm not, and again, I got to, when I was at the Flippin' Out Theater for the Pinball Awards, I got to play your Bond. And the layout, I think the layout works for that game. But it has stumbled so hard that I'm very curious about if its sales are – I don't think it can recover. Oh, stop. No, that thing is fine. That thing is going to be beyond fine. That thing is going to have the trajectory of a Rush pinball. Mark my word. It's going to have the trajectory of a Rush pinball, but more the feel of a Batman 66. That pinball machine.
    31:15
    I've hedged my bets on that one. Just give it time. The layout's there. The theme is there. It just needs code. And once it gets that, it's going to be training up for a long, long time. I mean, sometimes people forgive, but they forgive too late. Like, of course, Stranger Things. I mean, I get it. I mean, Stranger Things got to a good place. I would even say almost Guardians of the Galaxy. And I would have as well, except, you know, Guardians still stayed on the line. And so it was able to recover on its sales because they didn't pull the plug. It took a while, though. But, yeah, as you noted, though, Stranger Things or we want to hop companies, what happened with Pirates?
    31:53
    Wonka. A lot of these games do that. I'm not worried about Bond at all. Okay. Well, it wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong. When it comes to production of Foo Fighters, I would be guessing that, like anything, Stern Pinball reveals this coming week here, this week, and then within a couple weeks, they've already got pro models on a boat or a plane going overseas for exports. Yeah, two or three weeks you're going to have it in your local arcade, I would guess, if they're following the typical cadence that they do. But what would be the speed for Dennis to get the Frish Pro? Oh, shit. When would I get my Frish Pro? That's what the people, the American people who listen want to know. Well, I would guess. What's your guess? I would guess, do you not have a location? Maybe one. I mean, I have a basement. I mean, it is a location. Make green up. All right. So when do you think Pizza West would get one? Three weeks. I'd say two, three weeks, yeah. Okay. And when would I be able to get one in my home, a pro? I would guess if you're going to any other dealer besides flipping out pinball, you're looking at April to May. That's when the second pro run, I bet, would be. All right. That's what I was fishing for was when's the second pro run. Hey, if you're wanting an LE, it might be hard to get, But if you got one mid maybe to late March that right around the corner here You know I don buy LEs What about a premium Dealers have our first allotment of how many we getting for our first premium run You can have one of those probably early April
    33:21
    That's like barely a month away. That's true. That's pretty close. And looking at the production timeline, people, I think they have the capabilities of making a lot of Foo Fighters in March. Right now, the whole production schedule for March is open. And when we go into April, it's just for some bonds. And so I think they're going to make a lot here in March. I don't think they're going to sit on this at all. So much so that if you look at the other production kind of stuff coming from Sherwin-Pimble, Elvira Premium was moved up a week due to... Wow, I think that was the first time I've ever heard you say Elvira was moved up. Yeah, because it was planned not to be online probably until this week. Shipping next week, they bumped it up because there was another small delay on those domestic bond 60ths. What was the delay? Are they having trouble finding the fourth spinner? It's a part. There's so many spinners. They're probably running out of spinners. So Elvira Premium is now on the line. It's now shipping. We actually got our first bundle in already. It's happened. People don't have to worry about it being swept from underneath their legs again. It's happened. And I think it's going to continue to happen. Same as Godzilla Premium. It got bumped up a week or so. We got it a week earlier than we thought we were going to. It's also online. It's still making a lot of those. And then Bond 60th, I think, should be on the line this week and next week. So we'll see those here soon.
    34:45
    We did see Bond 60th streamed last week by the Stern Pinball team. I say we as a royal we. I don't know if, listener, you've seen it. Dennis, I don't know if you watched it. I did not. In fact, I think I had someone message me about it after, like the day after it happened. and it didn't sound like it went as smoothly as maybe what they had hoped. But, I mean, that's all I heard. I didn't hear anything about the game. Sorry. You were busy getting drunk on wine with a lion, weren't you, at the zoo?
    35:18
    I thought you'd get drunk with the monkeys, but okay, lion. That's very brave of you. If you were going to get drunk with one animal from the zoo, it has to be a zoo animal. We can't know dogs, cats. If you were to get plastered with an animal, what type of animal would it be? Penguin. Oh, well, you were really quick with that.
    35:38
    Penguin. Because they're the funnest drunks. It's science. A penguin. All right. Any special type of penguin?
    35:50
    Emperor penguin. An emperor penguin. You're going all the way to the top. Because they can afford the best stuff. I just said drink the good shit. Oh, and they eat anchovies. Nom, nom, nom. I'm going to go with a giraffe.
    36:06
    Why? I just, I think it would be funny to see them stumble around and fall. I've always wanted to ride a giraffe. I think that would be the coolest ride ever. Because they're like, they cover a lot of ground, but in a lanky, slow type of manner. Isn't that like riding a camel?
    36:31
    Yeah, but I think even bigger. Because you're not going to get to be up on its head. So you're not actually going to be super high up. You could make a mid-throat harness. This big old neck is going to give out. You don't think his neck's strong enough for me? You have to send it to the giraffe chiropractor. Oh.
    36:49
    Even the giraffe is like, eh, are they really helping? Sorry. All right. I don't know what we're doing here. You can't tell me a stumbling, bumbling-ass giraffe wouldn't be funny. Okay. I did watch the Bond 60th stream. I'm going to see. Did it get you hyped? I'm going to stay away from what you were talking about, and I'm going to say that the game, to me, looked just like I thought it would. It looked freaking fun as hell. It looks. Did it get me hyped? No. It didn't get me hype. I can't say it got me hype, unless I was lying. But it didn't get me hype. But I was like, okay, yeah. Maybe I was already in my head thinking it was going to shoot great. So when I seen it shoot great, I was like, okay, justified. I saw Keith Elwin blow it up. I don't know why they played for three hours, though.
    37:46
    Oh, is it that? Wow, that's long. I think it was a couple hours, yeah. Was it all one game, or is that just for Scooby? Oh, man. Wow, that was a really good one, too. You're being a scrappy dude today. That's what I do to earn my Scooby Snacks. I was making some marketing posts on Flippin' Out Pinball. I saw that, and I didn't understand any of them. Oh, come on. You had one like, even olives are bitter. And I'm like, what does that even mean? Even olives are bitter? Come on. No, they're salty. With a martini glass. They're salty. They're not bitter. Yeah, they are. They're good. Olives are bitter. No. Well, okay, fine. Take it salty, too. That joke still works.
    38:28
    I should have went with even olives are salty and bitter as well. You don't get that? No. It's a tongue and teeth, a little poke to all the crybabies out there.
    38:41
    I thought it was clever. Whatever. You didn't like watching this game play? Some games, not all games are created equal. Some of them make you feel like you're climbing a rope in gym class. I mean, I understood that one, but, again, I don't understand the strategy. Oh, God, when you hit all four opto spinners at once, I think it's the equivalent of a pinball orgasm. I think. What else was going to feel better than that? Getting that hat going, too.
    39:13
    Feeling that drop target bank reset. Oh, God. Yeah. Though I will note, having done quick research, at least before they are treated to eat, olives are bitter, raw olives. But we don't eat them that way.
    39:30
    Sadly, Dennis, when it comes to shit like that, I do way too much research when I do that market shit.
    39:36
    So stupid. I looked into, I'm not going to shit you now. Oh, my God. I don't even know if the listener wants to hear this. When I got the joke in Wayne's World of climbing a rope in gym class, because I was that kid that climbed a rope in gym class and about had a fucking orgasm. But I didn't know if that was a thing or if I was just a weirdo. I'm being so transparent here, people. But I Googled it and looked it up. Apparently, it is a thing. It is a thing. That's why they talk about climbing rope. Have you heard that expression? Probably from Wayne's World. When I was a kid and in gym class, the rope climb was the one physical test I always failed. Makes you feel funny. Even the knotted rope, I was always afraid if I went up, I would fall. Most people focused on me. Most people focus on the difficulty of that task, but there is a subset of people that that motion and the muscles being used, it actually elicits one of some youngsters' first orgasmic-like feeling.
    40:35
    I looked it up just to make sure it wasn't just me before I made it part of a marketing thing. And in retrospect, now that I'm thinking about it, probably not a great idea, but there's truth to it. I mean, I don't know if there's a support group out there, but, yeah, it's a thing. I don't know. The game looks phenomenal. Back to Bond 60th. Fuck.
    40:59
    There's cheaper ways to get off as well. Than Bond 60th? Yeah, as soon as you get to a rope. It was four spinners, but they couldn't even throw in a rope. I did love that. Did you see that figure eight shot? Like, sure, it wasn't as easy as a shot as I thought it was going to be. That was, I liked seeing that. I love that not only did it look like it felt just superb in the forward motion, but, like, going through that back door and it, like, locks the ball consistently in that saucer, that was really smart. I like that. I didn't really get into the captive ball stuff as much. It looked like a tight shot, so I can appreciate that. I did like the spinning hat being kind of cattywampus kind of thing. That looked cool. I like the reels. The reels were really neat, too, especially, like, when they were hitting those spinners, those reels were keeping up. They were, like, flying.
    42:02
    Now, I heard something like the reels got stuck or something. Initially, when they, like, started the game or something. I don't know what was going on. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to opening one and playing the hell of it. I think I'm even going to take it to the Louisville show. How about that? Wow. I'm a giver. What can I say? Don't listen to any haters out there. I'm sure at that Louisville show there's going to be plenty of Godzilla's to play. I saw someone ask how many Godzilla's do we think that they've made so far, and they had guessed 8,000. I saw that, too. I'm like, okay. Okay.
    42:39
    Back it up. 8,000. You know how many? That's a lot of pinball machines. It is, but back in the day, it would have been conceivable. I don't know. When you were going through the numbers for those 2.0 kits and shit like that, I was surprised by how low some of the total number runs were. No, I mean, it would have even been back in the 90s. 8,000 would have been a good run. Oh, yeah. It was conceivable. I mean, there were games that breached it. Conceivable. Step right up and give this game a try. We're going to sell over 10,000 units. We can have them build the melodies, but we never go back. That is 90s rule. We never go back. Never make anything again. We're smart businessmen, folks.
    43:20
    Step right up. It's time to sell Popeye. Do you think Godzilla will sell 8,000 units? I need to know how many they've, I mean, I'll say no, but I would want to know how many they've sold so far. Well, yeah. But as people, as the backlog, all of that, as that continues onward and new games come out, you know, it's conceivable some people will be like, you know what, I have plenty of friends that own Godzilla. I want Foo Fighters. It's conceivable. And, you know, change their mind. So there may be some mind changing. When people don't get what they want immediately, there's mind changing that happens. Yeah, and we're seeing, not that I'm bitter about it, but there are some dealers out there that claim that they do have some available right now, Godzilla Premium. Oh, wow. How that makes sense to a larger dealer such as myself having so many backwords, I don't know. But, yeah, so they're finally catching up. The reason I brought up Godzilla, damn it, was because there's about to be a clash. A clash of the Titans here in a couple months. Oh, that would have been such a good game. I can't believe they didn't do it in the 80s. Anyway, go on. I thought they did. Isn't it called Legends of Ahola? Or is that a whole different unit? Norse? Yeah, that's a whole different, like, region. It feels like it's the same thing. Vikings and, yeah. And Greeks. Yeah. I don't know. Trojans. So similar. Wasn't there a Loch Ness Monster in there or something? There's a Kraken. Is that a Kraken? Yeah. Is a Kraken part of that? Yeah, Kraken. Yeah. Bobo the Owl. Medusa? Where's Medusa? Where'd she fall? Yeah. Clash of the Titans. Medusa. Okay. She's in there? Yep. Pretty sure she's on Legends of Valhalla. Is she not? Well, she's not a Norse myth. Maybe they have something similar. What about the Sirens? Where did the Sirens come in? They're Greek. Okay. Everything you know is Greek. So, mermaids are Vikings?
    45:07
    No, I thought it was a Disney thing. I don't know where mermaids come from. Did Disney create mermaids? No, I'm being mean.
    45:17
    Sorry. I guess it's early in my old age. Look, Disney creates the best of everything, so. You hear that, Ron Hallett? They turned the Little Mermaid and they made it a happy ending. That's not a happy ending story. Did they? Yes. When? All right, spoilers, people. Fast forward. You don't know. All right, so. Who read The Little Mermaid?
    45:35
    Disney's The Little Mermaid. You know, she gets to be with the prince, right? Prince Eric, hell yeah. Okay. You know the actual story of the Little Mermaid, what happens? I do, and it's really bad. That's right. She dies. She turns to sea foam. And you know what? It's not under the water down when it's hotter when you're sea foam floating on top of the water.
    45:55
    It's just sad. Go on and kiss me good. One of the creepiest things in any Disney film are those little souls from Earth to Love. This shit turns people into these fucking worm souls. Creepy as shit. And they have, like, the saddest eyes ever. Oh.
    46:15
    One of the greatest ones. Don't fuck with Disney, man. Ron Hallett's just on the hook. I mean, I don't know if they're, I assume the Lion King's a Disney original, but there was a previous version, like, Scar would, like, kill the whole world. Not your dad.
    46:34
    I love that. There's going to be a clash, a clash of the monsters in this coming pin clash event by IE Pinball. Pin clash 2023, Godzilla. You going to do it, Dennis? No, I'm not. No, you're not going to clash? No, I don't want to get out my streaming stuff. You know what? Believe it or not, here soon you may see yours truly finally dipping his toes into the clash. No, you're not going to. I kind of am. You heard it. You're honestly going to go and play your floaty-ass game on stream. Oh, my God. It's not floaty. They're all going to laugh at you. And it's going to be a Joe Lingle first. They're all going to laugh at you. No.
    47:22
    They're all going to laugh at you. Someone, if someone was here, reach out to Keith Allen and ask him if Zach's game is honestly supposed to be at five and a half degrees. No. I swear he put a board under the front legs. I'm going to have to get one of those. I swear it. Pink glass. I'm going to pink glass, damn it. I'm not going to qualify, but I'm going to try it. Why not? I don't even know how to do the freaking Tokyo. What's floaty, precious? What's floaty?
    47:53
    Godzilla. Why is this scoop so easy to hit, precious? okay it's not floaty i guarantee you at least six and a half yeah i'm gonna be doing the pin class and everybody else is and if you want to get tired of seeing a pinball being streamed tune into twitch right now as fucking four or five streamers at any given point are streaming stern pinballs godzilla hey you know what that single-handedly might lower the sales value of uh of that game i do remember when they did the class with jurassic Park, there were people that were like, I got to get rid of this. I'm all JP'd out.
    48:35
    I don't know if it's going to do it to this one. But yeah, I'll be clashing. Are you clashing? And believe it or not, Flippin' Out Pinball is a proud premier sponsor of Pin Clash. See, people? I love competitive pinball. I want to rub my elbows with the, you know, as your left coughs of the world. Ray Days. Yeah, Dennis, quickly name me another competitive player. I know two. Andres Massenkoff? What is his name? Andrea. He played BSD versus Kaylee Thorne. You hated that game. I know. We made fun of that, and we got a lot of hate mail on that episode. And Jeff Tillis was trying to shit on me on the last final round. Did you hear that?
    49:22
    Kind of. I mean, I heard the episode, yeah. Jeff, I gave a tribute during the pinball awards to Mystery Castle. I tipped my hat to show how entertaining that game was. So back off. Speaking of trolls, Stern Pinball, I think they were trolling on social media this last week, congratulating Netflix on, I think it was the birthday of Bobby Millie Brown, Millie Bobby Brown, basically saying, can't wait to see Stranger Things come back out in 2024 or something. Stern Pinball did that. I saw that post. Was that not them confirming they were bringing the game back? No, they were just saying. Was that the congratulation of the show coming back? That's what they're claiming. Oh, that's mean. But that, how do they not? You can't pull it out like that and put it back in, right? You just tuck it back in. No, I don't think you can. I think once it's out to that degree, it's out. You just tuck. I think that's kind of an inference that it's going to get remade. Is it going to be, would it be labeled as a vault then? I think they would vault premium it and pro it. Would that be the first LCD-era vault? Hmm.
    50:33
    Hmm. Trying to think if Guardians really was because it had a really long hiatus. Maybe. No. Batman.
    50:45
    Batman. Oh, yeah. It got that different art package. Yeah, and I think it was, like, re-upped kind of thing. Iron Maiden, it was close. They re-upped that license. That's an interesting question. I don't know what they count. Maybe they only count vaults of its DMD era, just like in terms of using the label.
    51:01
    Possibly. And for all of you who are going to start emailing and messaging me, yes, we are taking an interested list just in case Stranger Things comes back out. Zach at FlippinOutPinball.com. Too much stern. Do we have any other companies in pinball business? No. We've got one that has a new logo. Oh, you're right. We do have more than one. What was I thinking? Captain America logo. Captain America shield. I actually like that logo. Do you? Yeah. I like it. It looks, it's very American. It is, and I think that's what they need to lean into because the name is so generic that you might as well just, like, go all in, like, on the Americana with it. You say generic. I say it's gold, Jerry. American pinball teething their next game release. They had some French art tees a couple weeks ago. Then they had with the title Something Out of This World is Coming This March From American Pinball Then, courtesy of NAP Arcade For the compilation of Pulling All Together Josh Kugler was on Pennside He's a previous employee and programmer in American Pinball Him speaking out on GCF On Galactic Tank Force The rumored Galactic Tank Force on Pennside And NAP compiling it all together for me here I'm going to read some of the quotes This is from Josh Kugler with reference to the work he's done in American Pinball. He said, quote, no corners were cut on this game. Side note, I'm thinking he's talking about GTF. GTF! And it's an interesting layout that is unique and different from most recent games. I do think Dennis' layout, Dennis Norman's layout following this one, is one of his best ever. And bummed I won't get to do the rules and code on it. Womp, womp, womp. All right. This actually statement aligns very closely with an email that someone had forwarded me. I didn't get it directly from an AP person. I got an email from someone who said they had heard from an AP person. And the quote in that was referencing that this, which I'm assuming was also GTF, was a very, in their view, polarizing layout.
    53:07
    Some people are going to really love it and some people are really going to hate it. but the author of the email's opinion was not very many people are going to be indifferent on it. It sounds like what Google are saying here. Okay. That does sound like it. That's why I'm thinking that they're both talking GTF. That's right. I like that they're talking about no corners cut on this game, so it sounds loaded. I find it interesting as an ex-employee to say, though, that, hey, you know, this game is going to be mixed for people, but the next one is the best layout ever. It seems kind of, um, seems a little passive-aggressive there. Possibly. Well, and I don't know all the details, but actually it might be in your quotes. I don't think the departure was mutual. Yeah, I don't think Coogler was happy about it. Let's see what else he's got to say. He said, quote, the game's concept was Dennis and Paul Reno, but Jack Hager and I expanded it quite a bit in a direction that was, well, a bit more satirical. and while not everyone loved it at first I suspect most are pleased with how it all came together. Regardless, sounds like you will see it soon and can decide for yourself. As I said, it's going to give y'all a, all caps, a lot to talk about.
    54:23
    So again, a tease that says there's going to be a lot in the game but also there's going to be a lot for you guys to question. Yeah, my I hope, based off of this statement, it was the reference about him and Jack working to make it more satirical. He says a bit more satirical. I hope either it was already really satirical or a bit's wrong.
    54:47
    And they, because a lino game like this with tanks and space, I think you've got to embrace camp fully for it to really work. How do you take it seriously? Exactly. I don't know how you could. But you know what? This is pinball, and people find a way. Find a way Pinball people are hashtag awkward Tanks find a way Yeah he went on to say quote Been gone from AP for almost a year But when I was there the plan was GTF Dennis game number two And then Berrio's last design Whether that is still the plan Your guess is as good as mine End quote Okay so Galactic Tank Force Then Dennis' Nordman's game number two Not to be confused with the award-winning Nordman. But Dennis, game number two, which, in Kugler's opinion, is one of his greatest designs. It's one of my greatest creations ever. It has ramps that lead to more ramps. Oh, shit! Rampception again! Ramp TF. Oh! Ramp TF. L-I-N-O. Lino. What is with these Lino games? Give me a license and let me show you what I can do with enough molded plastic.
    56:05
    Booty rate on top of booty rate. Boots rate. What is it? What are you talking about? Instead of plastic, Gary Stern, it's like a material. It's a plastic material. Oh, all what they do for the plastics when they don't have the 3D molded stuff. Yeah, it's like booty rate or something. Booty rate. On a scale of one. On a scale of one to ten, rate the booty.
    56:33
    Rate that booty. RTV. Oh, my God. I've been so fucking busy that, like, this is the highlight of, you know, talking about football. That was dumb. We suddenly, it can't be booty rate. It's got to be pronounced differently. Booty, booty, booty, booty, booty, booty rate. Booty, booty, booty, booty, rocking everywhere. It's like that. I just love hearing in the dealer seminars about the reveals, hearing Gary Stern pronounce it. He would pronounce it correct, but every time I would giggle, I'm like, man, it looks like booty rape. Booch rape. Booch rape? I don't know.
    57:16
    Booch better have my money. I don't know. All right, so this is going to be an interesting game. He goes on to say, talks about Bader play fields and J.J.P. burning a bridge with Bader. Boater. Yeah, apparently. Spooky Pinball and American Pinball are now using all of Bader's capacity. I just found it to be interesting. He also said, by the way, quote I hear, the name pronounced wrong all the time. It is, and phonetically I still don't know how he's talking. I guess Boater? Or Botter. Yeah, that's what I mean. Probably Botter. It didn't clear it up. I'm going to guess a soft A. Botter. Yeah, Botter. How pretentious. It's not Bader, it's Butter. I don't know that they can help how their name is said. I can't believe it's not Butter.
    58:04
    That's good. Now that's gold, Jerry. Whatever. I want to post your mock job if AP's playfield has a problem. Lift up your apron. I can't believe it's not Butter. I'm going to do this. Superimpose Fabio into the image I can't believe it's not Potter I love it Do it Oh man, okay I'm crying now I'm like flat out I don't know what's going on over here I'm fucking working too much Okay, I can't believe it's not Potter Poor JJP What else did they talk about? End of last March We parted ways The only thing I was told was that Due to a change in direction, I was no longer needed. Not sure why I was not needed, considering on TTF, I created the rules with ferret.
    58:57
    Develop the story. Is that the ferret sound? Yeah, it does. There it is. That's what it is. Crawling up, they fix the chest. All right.
    59:11
    I wrote more than half the script. I co-directed the actors. He's not salty. Just like that. all of design's new light boards and had the rules and mechs coded. The game was totally playable at that point and we were waiting on assets to replace all the placeholders we had put in. Most of which were storyboard images created by either Jack or myself during store slash rules development.
    59:33
    Man, Booty Red better have my money. Yeah, so he's not happy. He's not with the company anymore. I just so happen to like Coogler's story progression and the importance of that in his code. He did a lot of research, I know, when it came to Houdini in October. I appreciated the details that he brought to that team. I don't know what he was like to work with. I know nothing about that. But yeah, it does suck to not have him part of some rules.
    60:03
    I think it's... I mean, obviously I could see the argument about doing a change of direction on games that haven't been done and being more upset about having to leave when the project's not out yet and the project's not finished. But we've heard about that all throughout pinball history, like with Williams and everything, about people being removed from the company before their games came out and stuff. I worked in the governmental and non-profit space for a long time, so it's just different.
    60:39
    There's been so much going on with this GTF game behind the scenes, and I mean, you watch social media, Antoinette Johnson, there is a lot going on that I can only imagine. Yeah, after this game is released, I think there's going to be all kinds of discussion points. I don't know if it's good, I don't know if it's bad, I don't know, because thankfully I'm not in the middle of any of it, but this is going to be an interesting mark in pinball history, I believe. separate from the game itself. I'll set that aside because I don't know yet, other than, of course, what we've heard reported. I have heard that things within American Pinball have not been positively seen by everyone on board. Okay. So, you know, criticism about direction, criticism about what staff they have versus what staffing categories they lack. obviously we from the outside don't know all of this but what we do know is you know since David Fix has come in the only thing they've done is Legends of Valhalla it's been a very long time since there's been a new game so how much of that is pandemic related how much of that is change of direction related how much of that is something other than those two factors the bottom line is American Pinball isn't putting out games like they used to put out games and so I think a lot is writing on GTF. And I do think it is interesting from these quotes from Coogler that you have noted that they're going forward with, at least in one inside person's opinion, they're not going with Dennis' better design.
    62:17
    But I've also heard that this game has been done for a, I guess other than the placeholder assets, the game itself has been done for a long time.
    62:25
    I'll pull in some info too. Ooh, you got some nuggies? Yeah, I got to be careful, but I have heard that this particular design ask had been shopped out to a lot of manufacturers. I say a lot. To some manufacturers as well prior to Nordman joining AP. Again, I cannot verify that to be true. It's merely just hashtag shit I've heard. So I don't know.
    62:57
    I don't know. But I can say, as a dealer, you were talking about, like, not at the cadence of what they were releasing. Let's be fair. Like, they weren't really producing like a beast anyway. No. I mean, I don't remember. But the time period between Houdini and Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels was not. It was, I felt, relatively consistent. They may not have built very many games, but their release schedule, like, it felt like they had a schedule that wasn't constantly slipping. like we've seen with other companies. And you know what? As a dealer, as an authorized dealer, we aren't told much. This is all just me knowing behind the scenes. If I anticipate that when GTF is about to come out, then they will contact us dealers to go over some of the information, hopefully. But that's all I know. And then after all that, a teaser trailer was dropped a couple days ago. And, again, didn't say the name of the game. It just said starring Kerry Hoskins and Jeff Cooper. Like, there was like one little spot in there where it said the name. Yeah, it's like the copyright trademark kind of. It said, Choo-choo. Really, really small at the very end. It's almost like, damn it, we've got to suggest, or we have to mention it because it's a trademark.
    64:14
    Yeah, starring Kerry Hoskins and Jeff Hoover with Mitchell Pollitt and introducing Clementine Morfitt. I don't know these names. I Googled these names, you know. Well, you do your research. I just sort of phone it in for the show. The best damn podcast out there is going to know what we're doing here, and we do. Kerry Hoskins played the Sonya Blade, the Mortal Kombat, Sega Genesis Sonya Blade. Is that like the original Mortal Kombat or what? I think so. I mean, they've had a lot of them, so that's why I asked. Either that or the movie. I don't. Okay. So that was a known name. Mortal Kombat. Sorry.
    64:53
    Jeff Hoover, Mitchell Pollitt, Clementine Moorfoot. No fucking clue who those are. Well, it says introducing Clementine, so I'm assuming this was their first. Yeah, but I don't know Jeff Hoover. The only Jeff Hoover I could find sounded like a WGN anchor in Chicago, though. So maybe an announcer type on this game or a voiceover. I don't know. Mitchell Pollitt. The only Mitchell Pollitt I found is somewhat a small filmmaker kind of thing. So maybe they're doing animation, storyboard stuff. I don't know. Don't know. At the end of the trailer video, there was four silhouettes. I think maybe four players right there. We had our Han Solo type silhouette of a male. And this is just me guessing. We had two women in the silhouettes. I would guess one likely like the royalty with the crown and the other being the girl next door, right?
    65:49
    Sometimes stereotypes. You're kind of pulling straight out of a movie. Yeah, I know. That's what it feels like. And then the off-brand one, though, was a Shriner's Clown wearing a fez holding either a phaser bazooka gun, like space gun, or just a big-ass ice cream cone. Okay, the comic relief character. Okay, there you go. But what the hell does a clown wearing a Shriner's fez have to do with... Oh, my God. This game is going to be fucking weird. I just have a feeling this game is going to be weird weirder than Foo Fighters? way more foo weird than that I would assume overall given that they not tied to a particular license that would mandate anything But I wondering do you think the layout will be weirder
    66:37
    No, it's Nordman. No. Nordman doesn't go weird. I take that back. Nordman, his last three games, layout-wise, haven't really been weird, have they? No, I wouldn't say that. Hearts of the Caribbean by CERN, not really weird. House of Horrors. Yeah, feyney as they get.
    67:00
    Zombie League, that was a pitching bat. Lexi Lightspeed, that was a back third. Lonelli was a three-team. Okay, Wheel of Fortune was kind of weird, but it was just weird. Bottom third. Pirates, not weird. Scared Stiff, excellent, but not weird. Indianapolis 500, interesting, not weird. Demolition Man, different. Whitewater, different. Yeah, definitely. I think Foo would be weirder. Blackwater is weird. That's weird. That is very weird. Even Special Force, different. Dr. Dude Party Zone, they were just, as a project, weird. I think your game's going to be weird. I scratched my head on a lot of this game. Even down to, like, they do this promo video, and they don't tell about what the product is. They don't tell really about what the name of it's going to be. and they upload on Facebook and I'm like, okay, I want the high-risk and let me go to YouTube. They don't even have a YouTube upload of this promo thing.
    68:05
    Maybe I'm biased because I'm a YouTube shill, but why would you not put that on YouTube? And then I looked. I don't even know if they've got a channel on YouTube and if they do, it's really old. And then, holy shit.
    68:19
    So I was good with all of this. I'm intrigued and then Craig Bobby comes on to the top stories at the pinball show and drops all those nuggets you guys heard, all those bombs. He basically was given pictures of this game already, and he just spilled the beans on what it all looked like. He said, quote, packed with cool mechs, toys, ramps, end quote. He said, quote, sort of reminds me of, went on to say, Raza. What? The humor, I'm assuming, is going to be like Raza. I think it has to be. You don't know what they were going for with that. Like campy 50s tongue-in-cheek, though, of the era. What the hell is up with... Is 2023 the pinball year of space? Retro space? You know, historically, retro space, or back then it was just common, current space stuff. But space stuff sells. Like, horror doesn't, but space does. I'm waiting for fucking Vito Corleone with an astronaut hat on. What is going on?
    69:19
    I'm going to make him an asteroid he can't refuse. You do this on the day of my daughter's space station. An alien will come to you. He will make you an offer. He cannot be trusted. He's going to be like, as soon as I step out of the airlock, then pull me back in. I had to work for that one.
    69:39
    Craig Bobby said, regarding GTF, the art package is, quote, totally dope. Okay. Thanks, Craig. What was that? Way to paint a picture with your words. And the biggest surprise here, he said, talked about the design of the game. We've heard the rumblings and rumors that you fold this thing down, it looks like an actual tank. Well, Craig Bobby here to report, quote, cabinet design, which is on the highest trim level, is off the charts tank-like, with mock-up tank tracks on the side of the cabinet that double as rear legs with a small turret on the head that, when folded down, creates, you guessed it, a giant galactic tank force pinball tank? Question mark? That's what Craig Bobby said, so he's seen the images. But he did say that they could just be promotional and or prototype in nature. The ones that he's seen, he don't know. But he's seen the pictures, and I've got to say, look, I've seen the pictures as well. I just didn't know if he was going to talk about it. I'll correct him and say that, based on the pictures that I had seen, it does have back legs yeah and Craig didn't send me the photos but I've seen a couple they were working their way around and yeah no there are clearly legs that are there that are not like weird well they're I mean they're kind of like someone found Steve Kordex held stash of EM pinball legs, because that's what they kind of looked like to me, like the old steel ones. Just picture Stevie like, keep me out of this, man. He kind of like hoarded a lot of stuff. That's why I brought him up. But Kordak kept everything. So anyway, but no, it like had normal legs, but the image, and again, I don't know if it's a mock-up or not.
    71:37
    Yeah, it did look like it had like old school legs, too. When I was hearing, because I've heard this rumor for a long time that it's going to like fold down and look like a tank. And I thought, like, the bottom, I thought it would look a little less janky. Oh, shit.
    71:54
    And I don't know why I thought that, because, like, custom doing it to make it look like actual treads or something is going to be really expensive. It made no sense to me. The way the image is makes a lot more sense, like, about doing it. but to me it's the Jurassic Park, not Jurassic Park the game, but Jurassic Park the movie. It's the Jurassic Park thing of, you know, you try to figure out if you could instead of if you should. If you should. Yeah, and I just, I don't like it. You don't want that in your game room? No, I just don't think it was worth it. I hope the turret at least has a light that points to the ceiling and just has the letters. The turret thing looked fine to me. But the tread stuff for the leg area, I, no, no. The LEDs.
    72:50
    Oh, yeah, there's like trim lighting. I kind of, I have my dad and I built it. Yes, it looks like there's some version of, you know, Penn, I mean, maybe Penn Studios. I don't know. Penn Studios. Yeah, like little pin studios around the edges. Again, it was hard to – the image wasn't particularly good quality. But, yeah, no, and the – like, there's the trim lighting, though. That kind of reminds me. My dad and I, years ago, we did a – we built a virtual pinball cabinet. And we did the, like, color-changing LEDs, just with the ribbon style underneath to do, like, ground effects that could change color depending on the game you played. It kind of reminds me of that. Okay. Though I don't know if these change color or not. You know what's weird here? Whenever we were getting faux hype from the Triple Dream boys over there. Joel and Friends? Yeah, with the whole lunchbox and stuff. I was like, oh, these guys. What are they hyping up this? They're trying to be witty and all of that. And it worked. It worked to a lot of people. It was training up. And then I heard more about the behind-the-scenes stuff. A very waxy, waney kind of behind the scenes so far with this rumor title. And then I saw this picture.
    74:10
    And pictures do have a thousand words because this is the true game. This is the personification of everything associated with this game. The theming being so bad it's good, but so good that it's bad. But I'm going to be honest, I am fucking ecstatic when I look at this picture. I just don't know if it's for the right reasons or not yet.
    74:38
    It looks exciting as shit. But I'm like, is it fooling me? Again, you know, I don't decide on games based off of art or faux treads or any of that stuff or how it looks when it's folded down. It's about gameplay. So if the gameplay is good, then the game is good in my opinion. I will say, though, in my judgment, that the art package that this game has, it could work as a lunchbox. I agree. And if it is true, that's beautiful art. So maybe do a few, you know, make a few lunchboxes and just sell them for people that won't be willing to buy the game but might be willing to buy some stuff. I still want to know the people making these things. Are they in on the joke? Do they know what, like, I don't know how to present this. Are they clever enough to know what they're doing? Or is this just a happy accident?
    75:35
    Like, this is becoming so fucking meta that it's, you know, that's what, it's so hard to say. It's beating upon itself. Well, going back to, like, Coogler's quotes, you know, according to that, it sounds like they're in on the joke. But, you know, that being said, Kugler's also not there anymore and can point out that, you know, if he realizes that the community is sort of taking it as a joke, he might want to make it sound like that was the plan. They hear my point. Was Dr. Dude, that title, was that in on the joke? Was Party Zone in on the joke?
    76:09
    That would be a good indication of whether this is. You know, I don't. I don't know. You know where I'm getting at, though? I do. But, you know, it's so hard for me to, like, the era was different back then. That's true. You know, I thought it was supposed to be campy. I thought those were, like, Attack of Mars, I think it's supposed to be campy. So I assume they went into this thinking campy. How satirical about it or how meta, as you pointed out, it happened to end up being. That might be more accidental. But I'm sure they know that they're not doing, like, trying to make an A tier. Like, they're not trying to do Forbidden Planet, right? They're not trying to do a serious sci-fi movie. Well, when they're talking about lunchboxes, I don't think they were joking. That's like Joel and Friends, though. Oh, wait, no, there was an interview with Dave. Yeah, he did lunchboxes, and he wasn't joking. No, I know he wasn't. I'm convinced he was not joking. I know he wasn't. I think part of it is, I do think part of it is perhaps thinking about things like, well, look at what worked for TNA. Like, people got excited about being able to buy the cassette audio of the music. Exactly. I think you're right. And then, you know, Double Baker had the color-changing T-shirts and stuff, right? So I could see how Dave Fessman smelled that. But that's not why people are going to buy the lunchboxes. Right, right, right. They're going to buy the lunchboxes because GTF, as saying it, GTF, we're laughing at it, not with it.
    77:31
    We're laughing at the idea of it. But it's meta because we evolved into laughing with it. Sure. The question is, when you realize people are laughing at how – here's my analogy that I'll use. To me, I think GTF is like snakes on a plane. Exactly. Snakes on the plane was not meant to be a big joke. But when the reactions were that it was, the company was like, okay, people are laughing at us, not with us, but let's lean into that. They had Samuel L. Jackson record a couple of follow-up scene stuff to make it a little play into it and just lean into it. And that's kind of where I do think that David was probably along the lines of, we've seen this stuff work on other games. It's going to be original, so we can do all sorts of other projects or items, merch, and not have to play ball with a licensor. So he's probably thinking that is my guess. It's all speculation. But then with all of this and you hearing everyone going around, I mean, everyone's going around going, GGF, that is not fair. They weren't going around going, GGF, that's a company. Should we say you're welcome? In part, you know, I don't. What I'm asking, Dennis, the listener, is pinball media responsible for possibly making this thing a hit? It's too early to say, but I will say this. Pinball media is responsible for hyping this without cause. Without doubt. because I don't think most of the – and maybe I'm wrong because I didn't see the images until this week. But Pinball Media chose to, because of the very concept of it, just started hyping the idea of this ridiculous game with tanks in space. So, yeah, I will say that that's – and we've seen Pinball Media do this on other games before where they started to – I've said it at least twice on this show, but I'll bring it up again. Remember when Willy Wonka was – the rumor was Willy Wonka, Willy Wonka. And it just spun totally out of control, and people were talking about different colored balls, and the game would play different depending on, like, each ball is like its own type of power ball. That was a big game-related thing. I remember that. I didn't know who the source was because I don't listen to the show, but I'd heard it secondhand. He's doing that for Foo Fighters right now. And so it just spun into absurdity. But the hype, you know, that was hype.
    79:48
    And then when it didn't live to fruition, a lot of people, I think there was a backlash against the game. That was the bad thing. It was mishype. Which was unfortunate because the game is actually better than I think a lot of people recognized it for. Because, again, kind of the pirate's effect. You know, when they pulled this triple spinning disc and they pulled the chest that opened, a lot of people just couldn't forgive it because of what was promised. And in this case, though, it wasn't even the company's fault. They didn't promise multicolored gobstopper-themed balls.
    80:17
    But there we were running with it. And ultimately, I think it hurt that game. Will this hype hurt or help or be neutral on GTF? You know, we'll have to see once it comes out. We'll have to wait and see, Craig Bobby. I will say, though, for what it's worth, when I look at these pictures, I think, and maybe this isn't saying much, I think this may be the best-selling AP game that they come out with. This is crazy. What the hell is going on? I will say this. I'm very curious about it. I am very curious about it. I won't describe the pictures anymore just out of, you know, decency and respect. There are some things that I want to know more about that I see in these pictures. I can't, like, tell the layout and stuff, so it's not. These are two. I got two images. They're far away.
    81:05
    It's about enough to assess the art. I would guess more predictable would be Jersey Jack pinball, but recently that's been. What the beep is going on? Again, I've not been. I've been so busy with work. It's been in the evenings. I'm going on social media, and that's how I found out about a lot of these. I missed the Foo Fire trailer by like eight hours. I missed the GTF teaser by a day. And then I go online. I think I was over at what we'd nap our kids site, and I'm hearing stuff about Harry Potter.
    81:36
    Oh, my goodness. What is going on right now in pinball? There's all kinds of things coming together. and it's a cornucopia of releases and events that are creating odd, peculiar situations in pinball. One of them being, yeah, on Pinball Paparazzi. Pinball Paparazzi said something about, I don't even know what the hell it was, Foo Fighters or something like that. And Jaguar Nary posted in there a picture of himself standing by big old wall-sized posters of The Wizard of Oz, like Dorothy, Willy Wonka, and to his right was Harry Potter. It was actually... Weasley? The Weasley Kid? Yeah, it was Weasley. Yeah. And Pinball Paparazzi said something about those godfather. And then Jack Guarneri says, quote, I'd hold on to my money for a few more days. Teasing a possible Harry Potter pinball. Oh, okay. So that got... Of course, that got everybody excited. Holy shit. I saw a thread, because then I went to Pennside, because I'm like, what am I missing here? And it's easier to navigate Pennside on that sort of stuff than it is to do Facebook, because the top threads will be at the top. And so I'm looking, and I see a thread, and I start seeing people.
    82:58
    This is what I love about pinheads, because they can take anything and spin the conspiracy, spin the theorycrafting like no other. Like, y'all are right up there with, like, the best in the video game biz. Sure, sure. Draft email and everything, yeah. Because people are like, well, Godfather, let's see, Sirius Black is the Godfather to Harry Potter. Oh, wow, that's really deep. Could this be a code name? And then someone said, Godfather, the first code name wasn't even Godfather. The first code name was Scarface, and Harry Potter has a scar on his face. What? I wonder if they even use these code names. I don't even know. I don't know. This is what people were saying. And so it's just like, and then everyone's like, and the jaws are dropped. They're putting in gifs of jaws being dropped. And I unfollowed the thread at that point because I'm like, okay, I see where this is going. I don't need to read the other three pages. What do you make of this, though?
    83:47
    This is, in my judgment, my opinion, this is a horrible mistake to have done, to have said. Because unless it's true, all this is going to do is upset people. There's no upside to doing it. Even if you had Harry Potter, but it's not the next game to come out, this would still be a mistake to suggest because a few more days suggests that their next release will be Harry Potter. That is what is implied by any sort of statement like this. If it's not true, what advantage do you have? Harry Potter is a more beloved pinball theme than Godfather is. We all know it. Maybe times a thousand, yeah. And I know other people now because He's founded Jersey Jack. A lot of people are really leaning on this. And he may have meant it as a harmless troller. But, I mean, again, and pulling back to NAP Arcade, he had already confirmed, I think, one or two weeks ago, Godfather has in the trademark for pinball machines already. That's been the rumor, yeah. That's not a – it's in there. It's in their license or thing. But the rumor has been Godfather. People don't go and buy that to fake out. Now, not everything that gets a trademark ends up being used. And we know that other manufacturers troll often as well. So it's not like George Jackson wanted to do a troll move. I think this is a troll move, though. But normally, like, I do too, but normally, like, a troll move would be like posting a picture of yourself in a Harry Potter shirt or like when the CERN people posted a picture of them all at Disney World around something. They were at the Harry Potter World, yeah. Yeah, that sort of stuff. But not then being like, I'd hold on. Oh, what is this? Instead of just being coy and staying quiet, which is what most of the other trolls would do, going in and saying, I'd hold on to my money for a few more days. Now, it's just going to piss people off. Here's what I would like to think happened.
    85:40
    I would, you know, I'm a glass half full kind of fella. I'm a sentimental chap. I see the light, Dennis. I see the beauty in things. I'm not naive to things But maybe I am I'd like to think that Jack was thinking to himself You know what I'm so excited about what we're working on That I really think people I can't wait until people see it So I think people should Hold on to their money a few more days I think he's Being honest there I don't think he was thinking He was linking that statement To the picture that he did provide You've got to be kidding me. You know, I like to see the positive in things. Just the light. I'm a light seeker. I don't know what he didn't say. He'll flat out say it was Harry Potter. And I do believe he probably believes quite strongly in that Godfather is a really good game. And it's worth people holding on to because, obviously, the buzz is whenever whatever's coming out. And now there's Foo Fighters buzz and there's GTF buzz. Like, we know these game drops are imminent. Yeah. So it sounds like he's like, wait a minute. I mean, this might be the most crowded launch period in, what, five years? I agree. I mean, it's weird to see them this tightly layered. And I get all that. It's giving attention. I agree. Maybe not the best type of attention. And I can get the fun of the trolling, too. I do. I can get it. It's just timing. The problem is, and again, the game may end up loving Godfather. I'm going to keep saying it's Godfather. I am not changing my stance on what is coming out. All of the reports I have heard for months now is that it is Godfather. This is not some weird bait and switch that's going to happen here at the end. So all that being said, it's just not been a well-received theme so far. So you need to want to get people excited about why Godfather can be a good game, not imply that you've got something else. I'm not disagreeing. I just don't. In this instance, I think it was a mistake. Had he not said that I'd hold on to my money for a few more days, I think it would have been a perfectly decent troll job. But adding that in, now there's expectations that the next game from J.J.P. is Harry Potter. It will not be. And when it is not, people will be mad. And it will cost – I think it will cost sales.
    88:10
    A long pause there. I would, I am interested, so careful here. I'm interested to see in the future whether or not there is some truth to Jack, you know, securing a license or in discussion about Harry Potter. That does interest me. And J.J.P. would be, for a lot of people, the dream company to get Harry Potter. But there's a big leap between could they possibly secure Harry Potter, and I'd hold on to my money for a few more days, not a few more weeks, not for our second release of the year. Wasn't the caption of that picture? I know. I get where the logic is. He didn't say that the next game is Harry Potter. I'm not disputing that. I'm not saying he lied. I'm saying this doesn't help the company. Oh, boy. but it could hurt it. I don't think it hurts it very much, but I could see a few people being... Some people are such Harry Potter fanboys, this will piss them off. And they might punish the company by not buying another game that they maybe otherwise would have. I don't know. I get confused by pinball people. I've heard of pinball people actually... I've heard of some changing their opinion on a game based off of one of us saying something about it. And it makes no sense to me why you would change your mind on a game just because someone in pinball media does or doesn't like it. Play it yourself and decide. I totally think people should listen to me. Well, we give our opinions because we want to give our opinions. But, like, this is where I get it. Like when people get mad at Joel for criticizing Halloween. If you like Halloween, like Halloween. Be comfortable with your own tastes. Don't be defensive when not everyone agrees with you. Such a Deadpool show. I know people who don't like Godzilla. It flabbergasts me that that's possible, but there are some that don't. That's true. What about, speaking of Joel, he really likes Chicago Gaming Company's game. I've heard that. I've heard he's really big into Cactus Canyon Remake. And here's the deal, y'all. We got J.J.P. Vine for a spot at the battle in Texas here in 2023. We've got Stern Pinball throwing some food in the ring. We've got American Pinball throwing some tracks in there. and might we have Chicago Gaming Company? Look, I'm going to tell you this.
    90:37
    I can't promise anything, but I am actually hearing some rumblings, some minor rumblings about the possibility for a product to be launched in the thick of things this March from Chicago Gaming Company. What? I mean, now that we've seen so much stuff coming out right now, I don't know if it's, quote, unquote, the smart thing to do, But I had heard that Chicago Gaming's next game has been ready at least since Q4 of last year.
    91:05
    And that they were either wanting to, the main rumor, and I think this is more rumor than the other aspects, but is that they were just really wanting to deal with the whole CCR LE issue, you know, the backlog from the topper, and get caught up on getting those games out so they could focus on producing this. And LX are getting out better. It's still backlogged, though. It's still backlogged, but now that they feel like, well, they're finally going out, we can announce something new and we won't alienate all of the people that are angry at waiting. And I do know that Chicago Gaming Company has the ability to run multiple lines. That is a fact. Yes. It's a fact. I don't know. I don't know if this timing is right, if it's wrong. We'll talk about that here in a minute. But it feels like the tea kettle is whistling immensely right now and shaking like a cartoon kettle. So much so that even Multimorphic wants to throw their modular hat in the ring with a project called Carbon. This was the first one I heard about of all of these. This was actually the first announcement I heard. Yes, Project Carbon has now been teased officially with a design by Scott Denisey. Rules by Bowen Cairns. Original concept set to launch with artwork by Johnny Crap. I think it went by his formal name, but it's Johnny Crap artwork. at a teaser trailer a couple weeks ago announcing this. And so much has happened since then. It's kind of got crowded, but we're here to talk about it. Sure. Texas is, and that's Jerry's home, Jerry, owner of Multimorphic. That's his home turf. Usually, actually, every TPF I've been to, they've had a very strong presence in terms of number of machines available to play. Not just the current titles, of course, but also prior modules, which are still being made. And this is a pretty strong lineup. A couple of big names are involved in this project, of course. Bowen Terrans. A lot of people really liked the rules package that he did for Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. And, of course, Scott Denisey, beloved for his Total Nuclear Annihilation. A lot of people also enjoy his Rick and Morty layout. I do. And, you know, his music is very well respected within the pinball hobby as well. So, and people know Johnny Crap. I don't, I would say he's not at the same. His portfolio is good. I know that. Yeah, yeah. You know, he did, like, what was it? He did the, was it the Jurassic game? Jurassic Park, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, he's done some big dog game stuff.
    93:31
    So, I mean. A lot of exciting things. The lineup working on the game, very strong. What? Here's what fools me, though. Original concept has set the launch. Okay, so unlicensed. They're going another original concept. Sure.
    93:46
    Good, bad, smart, done. If the goal is to sell more P3 units, not the best way. Okay. If the goal is just to sell modules because they're quicker to build, because, again, with this announcement, I believe, was also noted that if you still want to get a whole P3, the actual platform, it's still a year wait, but the module speed was a lot faster. And I made this quote. It felt like it was around, like, three months. Okay.
    94:15
    Isn't the goal always to sell more games? like the machines? Sure, yeah, yeah. Well, well, well, yeah, yes. That's always your goal, I think. Well. Especially for a, you know, operating system like this, you want to sell machines so that you can later sell more models. Yes, but they've already got a backlog trying to build them, okay? So here's a hypothetical because I don't know how they do the builds in Multimorphic. Just like I pretty much don't know any of the companies and how they do the builds. Let's assume they've got two quote-unquote lines, though, okay? Mm-hmm. There's a line that builds P3 systems, and there's a line that can do modules. If the module line is less or more caught up and the P3 line isn't, launching a game that might not move a lot of P3 systems but would compel your existing P3 customers to buy yet another module could make sense.
    95:07
    And that's where I go. Because, again, they've got a lot more modules out there now because of Weird Al. I mean, they've still been turning out modules. Excuse me, they've got a lot more systems now. They've been turning them out. I mean, a lot of people who were not in on P3 prior to Weird Al now have a P3 system. Yes. That customer, it's like a console. It's like a video game console. You're locked into the architecture when you got it. People hunger for more cartridges to put into their console so that it feels like it was a good investment. So they'll turn to original concepts because it's not like they can buy Foo Fighters and plug it into the P3. They've got to buy whatever's coming out for the P3. So that's the market for this. I still wonder what happens when they upgrade to the P4, but I don't know. Maybe never.
    95:51
    That's like releasing a new console, right? I know. People would have to buy it. Well, that's not a bridge I think they need to worry about crossing right now. I wouldn't have the plans for a P4, period.
    96:07
    Because, holy cow, that's a whole other. I know. because at that point... But if you're a third-party developer, aren't you thinking about that?
    96:16
    All right. We can go back to the whole... All right. Carvin, original concept. Did you see the trailer? Did you hear the trailer? Yes. It was just credit roll on an alphanumeric style display. Oh, just credit roll? That's all I saw. With the music. Do you... I didn't get any sense of the game from it other than I figured it was going to feel like a System 11 game. These are the guys.
    96:42
    Everybody's got their own subculture of cliques in pinball. You've got your – it's like high school, man. You've got your jocks and you've got your burnouts.
    96:56
    It is littered. Almost every subculture, every hobby has these different little cliques. I always see the multi-morphic crew. Everybody in pinball is nerdy and stuff like that. The multi-morphic crew to me feels very scientific. Right? Very, very, you got to work on those jokes because they are deep. To think that this was not premeditated, this whole, you know how orchestrated this teaser trailer was? Unless I am always sunny in Philadelphia and fucking conspiracy theory threading this shit. But I think there was probably more said in this trailer than any trailer that we have seen from these other manufacturers we've been talking about.
    97:40
    I think there were tons of clues and hints. The problem is, I think general public, it's too deep for general public to pick up on or even want to look into and investigate. Well, I've not advertised myself as a particularly intelligent person, so I may have obviously just missed all of it then. I think there are so many IT computing... It seems like they're doing TNA to me again. But they didn't do TNA. It seems like the designer, the creative designer, the leader of this game development, Scott D'Anisi, is doing another TNA. 3.0? 2.0. No, 2.0 is what he called 1.5, which Spooky called 2.5. Which makes sense why he clearly wanted to keep it from being called 2.0. And I heard that Project Carbon's original codename was Scarface. Okay. Harry Potter. And if you look up the elemental weight on the table. Multimorphic should get Harry Potter. Oh, Dennis.
    98:50
    You love baiting me, don't you? They could have one module for each movie. If it walks like a TNA It talks like a TNA It sounds like a TNA And it looks like a TNA What makes it a carbon? Are you saying it's a carbon copy? Oh, you see? Clues are everywhere I think this is TNA 2.0 And I will go on to double down I'm going to triple down on this one If those graphics The alphanumeric indications, the sounds of that teaser trailer are indicative of what is coming in this new carbon-based game and they don't make it TNA 2.0, I think they are aversive to money. I think if you're going to do an original concept, which is always a bad idea in my opinion when compared to a licensed product your licensed product is right here Scott Denise So give the people what the fuck they want and that what tried and true and that is TNA Otherwise, why aren't you doing a prehistoric theme? Why aren't you doing an underwater theme? Don't be putting carbon steel and electronic music and alphanumeric numbers and fucking light shows and calling it anything else but TNA 2.0. Why not? Go all in. Make money. That's what people will buy. They'll buy TNA 2.0 because that is a license.
    100:17
    Am I wrong? I mean, there's still some of the 1.5s available. I just, I don't know. No, I'm saying 2.0. They want to see. Is it a different layout or not? Yeah, it's a different layout. It's a different rule. They want the world of TNA. Okay. All right. That's fine. That's how you make money, I think. Beep. Right? Beep. Otherwise, what do you guys got that needs you doing? Beep. I don't think I'm wrong. Beep.
    100:46
    But when we zoom out, a bird's eye view, some might call an ego's point of view, we see a battle brewing in Texas. And regardless of the political comments that could follow, there's a rumbling. It's Stern versus American pinball versus Jersey Jack pinball versus multimorphic versus CGC, question mark. spookies over there sitting in a corner watching eating some buttered popcorn with their Scooby snacks. But I'm asking you, Dennis and the listener, is this good for pinball? Is it bad for pinball? These releases all coming at once.
    101:24
    I'll say it's good overall simply because it makes it interesting. Okay, so for the enthusiasts, this is good. I mean, let's say that all these games are going to come out this year but didn't all drop in March. you know I don't think people have a budget for the amount of pinball that they're planning to buy in a year normally based off of whether the games are the games the money that they're willing to spend is the money they're willing to spend it would just be more telling I think if all this comes out and if GTF and Project Carbon are seen as superior games to Foo Fighters and Godfather then there might be some frustration and investors might go, you know what, it was a bad move for us to drop in such a tight window. That happens in video games a lot. So I assume that with pinball and budgeting it's not as likely, but with video games there are often talks about you don't want to release next to juggernauts because it cannibalizes your own sales. Well, and you can do that in video games. You can spread things out in video games. You can spread things out in film and movie, you know, Christmas time or July, big blockbuster times. But pinball, you can really spread yourself out because it doesn't happen often. Hell, some of these manufacturers are only releasing new products, new games, that is, every two years, every three years. But as a consumer, I think it's good. Yeah, a lot of choices. I mean, I normally, I look forward to Texas. It's the one show I always try and make. And the reason I look forward to it most of the time is, honestly, I just need a vacation. but in this instance I actually am thinking oh holy crap there's going to be like new stuff I can try. Last year the only thing there that was new was Weird Al I mean yeah Stern over at the Marco booth did have a bunch of the rushes but we'd already had Rush on location. I'd already played it so instead of going and saying wow I get to play Project Carbon now I get to be like I'm going to get to play GTF and I can play Foo Fighters and maybe I get to play Godfather 2. You know, that's not Godfather 2. I mean, it would be not surprising if JJP did a sequel instead of the original. Well, arguably that one might not be too, I mean. No, it would be good. They would do three. They would do three if they did that. Okay. I think it is good for the consumer. It's a lot of choices, a lot of options. You can play a lot of things. It's like Christmas for us pinheads. What's to hate? I don't think there's anything to hate. Plus, you got spooky. I mean, a lot of people haven't played Scooby-Doo yet. Yeah, for a lot of people, that will be their first. Because Spooky only just did a show, right, with Scooby? They have not yet. Oh, they've got one coming up before TPF, though, I know. That's right. It's called the Louisville Pimballs. That's right. We'll be there. I know. What show was it that was trying to pronounce Louisville? Was it you? Yeah, on EGP. Yeah, you guys were. We weren't sure.
    104:20
    Tony went with Louisville. or Louisville. Louisville, that's right. And I can tell you, being somewhat localist today, it's Louisville.
    104:35
    It's going to be interesting in Texas. I can say from a manufacturing standpoint, a little bit riskier to reveal altogether because competing products, there's only so much money to go around. It is good timing based on my now proven accurate assessment of the market going up in pinball recently. Thank you.
    104:58
    I think it is a good time. You've got people getting tax returns as well, and everything is coming together. So it's a good time if you're the only product to be releasing. That's why I think it's funny that Spooky is sitting back smiling because they fucking knocked it out and sold damn near every one of their units. So they're already a success. They're just watching everybody else fight it out and not getting their hands dirty at all. Here's the deal, though. If I'm a manufacturer, I don't know when these other manufacturers are releasing their damn games. Yeah, I know. I can't plan for that. I'm not planning on the defense. I'm planning on the offense. I'm focusing on what I can control, and that's it. Having said that, if I do get information that says, hey, we're going to be revealing a competitor's product at the same time, then I've got to figure things out. Because, if you ask me, I would rather jump in with the group here than revealing my product one to 16 weeks after. I really don't want to do that. I do not want to launch any time from April, May, June, July, or August. Because decisions have been made. Does that make sense? Yeah. Either do it now with everybody and stand strong with your product and confidence, or you need to wait. You need to wait until you're kind of by yourself in the summer or the fall. And it sounds like a lot of stuff is ready, so it's coming. It is coming fast. To round out the pinball news this week, very quickly, we were talking about spooky pinball. And I got to say, Dennis, Scooby-Doos are shipping now. I heard that. Uh-huh. Ruby Roos are going out at a decent pace, too. They get the first big batch going out to those operators and those distributors. They get some of the quirks and stuff adjusted so that all the subsequent runs will get better and better and better. And we received ours. Scooby-Doo has come home to flip out pinball. Yeah, we unboxed ours. We played quite a bit of this game. So Greg and I, for straight down the middle, wanting to do a first impression, so we recorded that. That is coming soon. And also coming now is new code. New code for Scooby-Doo dropped on the 25th of February. So a couple days ago, new code. I have not updated code suppress. Of course you haven't.
    107:24
    Hey, the good thing is now on this new system that Spooky has, you can't break your game, I don't think, updating your code. So that's great. I am curious. Which do you think is lower, your version of code or the degrees you set your games at? Fuck. My God. Look, I'm going to go out and buy one. Can I buy one? Where can I buy an inclinometer or inclinimeter or whatever the hell it is? No level? Can't believe it's not level. You know you can just download one for your phone, right? Can't believe it's not water.
    108:00
    They pulled me back in. It's not floaty, but okay I know what I'm saying I think probably In the next podcast Because we don't have room here I'll go over what I like, what I don't On spooky pinball Scooby-Doo But as a tease There's a whole lot of like And you're going to hear me on Straight Down the Middle Proclaim this It's just a comparison But in my opinion This will ultimately probably, as of right now, go down as Spooky Pinball's...
    108:38
    Scooby-Doo is here. And new code for Halloween and Ultraman. That dropped as well. Pinball Brothers, they got Queen. Yeah. Are you excited about Queen? I still need to play it, so I don't... I need to get more time. I actually know Queen songs, though, so I'm more familiar than with Foo Fighters. Queen was recently streamed by JDL Pinball So if you want to watch that You can go watch their premiere stream of Queen They continue to update the code I did like on the recent stream Joe Schober is doing code On this Queen game Which a lot of people love Schober's work The depth that he brings to the game As well as Brian Donnie They're both programming They even lent an interview to the intro of that stream Talked to the guys over at JDL Talked about the code being deep On Queen progressing and getting very deep. Right now the code is at .86. Should be at 1.0 in a couple of months. Nice. So that's Queen Pinball. I don't believe that any of them hit the stage yet. I know that some stayed over in Europe. Within the next week or two, I believe the first batch of Queens should be hitting the motherland. Oh, Dennis, I'm almost too tired for PMT. Yep, probably got to pass on this one. Oh, man. Is PMT the GTF of pinball podcast segments? Yeah, because I think people are laughing at it, not with it. I figured you'd say that, and I disagree. I think one has awards, one doesn't. There's no award for pinball segment. I think the people have spoken, have they not? Did the Degeneres have a favorite pinball segment or something? I don't remember. They had a lot of weird awards. I don't think they had the segment. Well, then no one does. If not them, then no one But just because something isn't That's where It's not award winning That's where spirituality comes in, doesn't it? You could invent your own award And then give it an award It's a belief system I don't know, I think the numbers don't lie I only report facts today because this is Pinball Market Trends Loon 3 You should replace the eagle with the loon It is better in every way No it's not It is Track up bitches It's time to trend up No not Gigi Nevermind shit That's not going to work Trending up this week is Apparently Foo Fans are hot and heavy Hitting me up like ex-girlfriends They want their game and they want it now. I've got another confession to make.
    111:27
    I'm happy. I want Foo Fighter fans around the world to take me to the promised land. Sell, sell, sell. Thern Pinball is trending up as always, but in particular, these Foo fans coming out of the Foo Works. I think you can use that for a lot of things. Can we take Foo to another level? Yeah, I don't. Oh, for sure. I don't know.
    111:49
    Oh, my God. Never mind, don't do whatever. All right, so that's trending up. Yeah, Wedge Talk. All I'm saying is it's a little foo for thought. Foo, foo, foo. I hate this show. All that's trending up is Foo Them Revisited. It's Fathom Revisited. Did you just go down to the letter F and just throw everything in the up category today? It's going to work so well for weeks to come until it gets old. It's already pretty old. I create gold. I don't know. like people can make fun of all that want it. I create things that stick, and people don't thank me. It's a bunch of bullshit. They just complain when it's too loud. Ah! How about that? Is that too fucking loud? Fathom Revisit is turning up. You want to know why? Because objectively, for some reason, this thing is a sub-$10,000 game, and on the secondary market, it's still going for $12,000, $13,000. It's like CGCLEs all over again. These things are underpriced, apparently, because they keep selling. It's like the Big Lebowski. What's going on with Fathom Revisited? It's special. Buy, buy, buy! It's special, I guess. So it's staying up. It's staying up right now in the market. When people post them, which is rare, they always sell for substantially higher than what they sell for new. That's always a good thing. That's always a good indication of some value for said manufacturer. Nicely done, Hanges. All straightening up this week is Harry Potter pinball pennant. What is this? What? No. Yes. No. Numbers don't lie.
    113:24
    Yes. Oh, my God. I was good there. Apparently, Harry Potter pinball is trending up. I don't know if JJP is sinking their teeth into this Warner Brothers gold mine. I don't know if Jack is having tea with J.K. Rowling. maybe it's happening. I'd like to be a fly on the wall in that meeting. But it's not just that. Did you hear the recent off-the-record? Yes. I'm most of the way through it. Yeah, the recent off-the-record pinball podcast featuring pinball innovators and makers podcast. Kyle is creating the homebrew version of Harry Potter. And I've got to say, the kid seems to know what the hell he's doing. Very impressive work that he's conceptually doing over there. He seems like a cab genius, and some of the photos and videos and stuff that I've seen are second to none. I think a lot of Harry Potter nuts out there would love for Kyle Bossa to reign supreme as the designer of a future Harry Pinball. Harry Potter pinball machine. Some impressive stuff. The whole Weeping Willow thing. It's pretty good. And the way he did the Quidditch. That was clever. That was clever, too. But, you know, I mean, let's, you know, I don't know why this is trending up. Why do you always hate on Harry Potter?
    114:51
    It's not about hate on Harry Potter. Don't be such a Hermione. It's not about the hate-miney. It's not about any of that.
    114:59
    Here's the thing, Zach. You paint this picture. It's like all you have are the bright colors in your palette. And so you paint this picture, much like finger paint, and here's what would actually happen. He's going to get a job offer. He'll get hired by one of the manufacturers, and then they're going to come out publicly and go, well, we couldn't get Harry Potter, and someone else has it, but it's not Stern, but someone else has it. And then you get FFR instead.
    115:29
    Foo Fighters Revisited, for those that don't know the code. FFR. Foo Fighters Revisited. I feel like I cannot bring up Harry Potter pinball without you foofooing all over it.
    115:41
    Foofoo. I'll start turning stuff down. Turning down this week. Oh, Toy Story 4CEs. Damn it. What a shock. Fucking chill on me. Turning stuff that he needs to sell. Oh, believe me, people. I need to sell Toy Story 4CEs. What sort of discount can you give? Well, it looks to me like some of these dealers are giving tricksy on pin signs.
    116:10
    Here's what I love. I don't know if a lot of viewers know this, but there are some dealers that can be a little squirrely, a little weaselly. I'm not going to call them out by name, but sometimes dealers just miraculously have these used games that pop up. Oh, I see. I got a Toy Story 4 CD that's used. Oh, yeah, you got any new ones? You know, sold the last one, but we've got four or five used ones if you're interested. Okay. Okay, get some pictures of those.
    116:44
    Hmm, going to be tough. It's all wrapped up right now. In the box. That's it. So, okay, maybe I'm uncovering a rock. I shouldn't, but there are some dealers that do that. And then you'll also see the random people throughout the country, hey, I've got a new inbox. You know what? I feel like taking a hit on it. Didn't feel like opening it up. Oh, I have seen those. I have seen those, and I've always been confused by it. Didn't feel like opening it up for the past five months, you know.
    117:18
    In between moves. So, yeah. And there's loopholes everywhere, people. So, yeah, Toy Story 4 CE, unfortunately, is trending down a little bit. I saw two practically new ones in the upper 12s, and that is a deal, first off. Go get that deal of the week. So they're trending. I can't say that degree for the Ellies because, believe it or not, those are still down from what they were upon release, but they're still holding better than the Cs. Cs keep trickling down, unfortunately.
    117:54
    Also trending down this week was apparently the host of the Pinball Awards, myself and Greg Bone, joking. about breaking the back glass of Legends of Valhalla at the ceremony of the Pinball Awards. You want to know why I did this? Because it's a fucking curse now. It's cursed me. Yeah, it's cursed me. Yeah, we had me breaking glass of Nightmare Proportions a couple of days ago. And then we had the curse of us making fun of Amanda Hamilton for drinking too much and then breaking the Legends of Valhalla back glass. But what happens? We shipped the damn thing out to the recipient and damned if it wasn't shattered in the mail.
    118:33
    It's a curse. At least now he got the genuine Legends of Valhalla puzzle. That's right. It's not a lunchbox, but it'll do. You know what? GTF back glass is so freaking strong. It's the Chuck Norris of back glasses. It can't break.
    118:50
    Yeah, but that's what happens. I joke about it. You know, we create a little thing in the pinball awards, and it's coming back to haunt me. Also turning down this week apparently is age. It's me, Dennis. I'm getting older. I don't know what the hell. We've talked about this before, but I went to Disney on Ice this last week with my lovely wife and kids. What a wonderful presentation they give around the country doing this Disney on Ice. You heard of the Disney on Ice? Yes, I'm familiar. Boy, oh, boys, if spending thousands upon thousands of dollars in a couple weeks on a fucking Disney cruise isn't enough, we've still got to spend money on Disney on ice. Are you all like a Disney family that does, like, all the Disney stuff? You know what? I don't know why I'm complaining, because I eat up every single ounce of it. Yeah, we were all, like, all real heavy for Little Mermaid earlier. I am.
    119:42
    Admittingly so, and proud to say so. But training down is me because I just cannot hold myself together during these things. I can't do it. I tear up every time. I cannot watch a musical rendition in Disney form and not have a lip quiver. I can't do it. What the hell is wrong with me? I look stupid in front of my kids when I'm trying to, you know, I just have my eye. It's the eyes or something. Like, what is wrong?
    120:12
    Moana wasn't even in my time. But damn it, how far I'll go... ...brings this man to tears. Beauty and the Beast? Tale as old as time.
    120:30
    There's just something there. What do you think that is? It's got to be a psychological thing. Dust mites. Why can't I hold my shit together, Dennis? I don't know. Are you not a Disney fan? Did you not grow up with the Disney stuff? Yeah, we, I mean, that was, there weren't a lot of, like, competitive animation studios, so Disney's mostly what I remember. And you don't have a strong nostalgia for it? No, no, not particularly. Boy, I do. I do so much that, like, I think it's just this, it is nostalgia that gets me. It's the innocence. It's times of yesteryears. It's the way I want the world to be again. Things are so complicated now. Do not dispense too deeply into the whole Pepperidge Farms, Bluebell world that they try and paint. Love is not pure as it is in Disney film. It never has been, though. Well, you know, the Grim Fairy Tales aside kind of thing, but just at the essence. Part of it is because I, and maybe it's no different now than it was, But, you know, there's a lot of stuff I remember as a kid that was aimed towards kids that was darker than. And I don't know if parents just didn't care or didn't think about it or it was just a different time. But, like, I'm thinking about other, you know, things like how creepy, like, the Dark Crystal was or, you know, or Crawl or just all sorts of stuff. Even Care Bears. I mean, never-ending story and the horse giving in to the sadness and dying and swamp and all of that. I'll get it out. So Disney actually seemed a little overly sanitized to me versus what some of the other ones, even though they had emotional moments themselves, you know, Scar and Mufasa and all of that. But it had pure heart. Sure. I just don't feel like we have that anymore. I am the old man yelling. No, we still do. No, we don't. John Wick's just trying to help his dog. No, we don't have it anymore. My kids sat there, and they're like robots. Roger, roger. Like cyborgs. They don't have it. I see a beast falling in love with an intellectual, beautiful woman, and that is it for me. Maybe your kids are all Gaston. I don't know. Love Gaston. See? They're just little Gastons.
    122:58
    What I'm saying is, although I am turning down Disney properties and nostalgia, it needs to trend up in pinball. Why can't we do it? Let's go all in. We do. What do you think Mandalorian is? It's Disney property. That's not what I'm talking about. Baby Yoda with his little hand that doesn't move. Cinderella. In the standards, you use a 20-page model. Aladdin. Lion King. Why don't we have that in pinball? They're old. Who's going to do the voicing? Robin Williams isn't with us.
    123:28
    I don't even want it. Just give me clips of the movie. There's so many worlds. That's fantasy. That's what you need to say is we don't even want it. We don't need a Back to the Future anymore. We don't need any of this. We don't need Harry Potter. We don't need stuff that people love. Just move on. People are going to love new stuff. Do Squid Game. They're happy. We're just losing our sense of wonder.
    123:53
    We just are. Fucking cynical people nowadays. Everything's going to be fucking meta and lunchbox. It's the bullshit.
    124:00
    When do you hate lunchboxes? It's good. You should have nostalgia for a lunchbox. I didn't take my lunch to school. I always got the school lunch. Of course not.
    124:09
    The Rib-A-Cuse. Shout out to Rib-A-Cuse. Remember those? Similar to a McRib. Gotcha. Mexican pizzas?
    124:18
    Come on with that hexagonal food. Deal of the week this week is the Hobbit LE that's flipping out pinball selling. You guys had Hobbit so high up. What happened? I remembered that it's not good. I'm the sub $10,000 Hobbit and I still can't sell it. You know what? I'll slash $500 off. Hobbit LE. Nice condition. $93.99. Come pick it up, people. Damn. Bye, bye, bye! I don't know. I'm just still sitting here thinking about crying during Disney movies and shit. Can't do it. I can't wait for that cruise, honestly, now. I hope there's cheesy, corny theater there. I just... Disney stuff. There's a lot of Disney fans out there, too. And you know what? A lot of boomers. With money. They spend a lot of money on Disney. Sure. I know lots of Disney fans that go and do, like, go to the parks multiple times a year. They don't take their kids. I'm that guy. I could do it. I told my wife one of the things I would love the most in life is to get a private, personal VIP tour throughout the different parks. Not this hokey, backlot tour that you're still spending too much. I'm talking you got to know some fucking people, and you're spending more than you would want to admit to, to learning how to park. I don't know. I've always wanted to know about the engineering of parks and how they work.
    125:35
    Pinball Bounty. People find me at Spider-Man Balls or at Congo. As always, I'm just here to cry during Disney films, to create pinball media gold, and help manufacturers just with my whimsy and my words. Because numbers don't lie, and neither do I, on pinball market trends.
    125:56
    All right, Dennis, where can people catch you? Ah, you just wait to email me at and then I can reply when I feel like it. I'm sort of behind on my emails. Yeah, I'm behind on work, too. You can reach me at thepinballnetworkatgmail.com. Go follow, like, and subscribe to Flippin' Out on social media, Facebook, and believe it or not, we have our own YouTube channel.
    126:19
    Straight down the middle. Follow that, too. Check out all the people we sponsor, too. We love people at Flippin' Out, so much so that we're like, Hey, Loser Kids, we love you guys. We'd like to help support your efforts. The Poor Man? Hell, yeah. How can we help? Buffalo Pinball, Pin Clash, IFPA. We're givers here, baby. And now we get to support the Pinball Party Podcast. There it is.
    126:48
    So we appreciate the support that each and every one of you listeners give to Flippin' Out Pinball by purchasing your products through us. So we'd like to give back as well. Product showcase this week is James Bond Pro and Premium, the Louisville Show Special Editions. March 10th through 12th you guys are going to be there and you want to save money on a brand new James Bond Pro and Premium we're going to open them up for the show let people play and then you can take them home get a hold of us Zach, Z-A-C-H at flip the letter N out pinball.com or you can text me 812-457-9711 otherwise we do have many games in box ready to go like James Bond 007 Pro Alien LV we've got Jurassic Park Home Edition Star Wars Home Editions. We've got Oktoberfest. We've got Toy Stories. We've got Ultraman. We even have Mandalorian Premium. Rush Pro. We've got Star Wars Pro and Premiums. Led Zeppelin Pro and Premiums. Guns and Roses. Raw Thrills Arcade Games. Golden Tees. PGA Golden Tees. Cactus King Remake. We're going to take some pre-orders for the SE Plus. Joel Engelberth approved. We've got a lot of pre-owned games. Hobbit LE. That deal of the week. You have a lot of games. A Rush Pro Mandalorian LE. We just got in a dialed-in LE. Ooh, that one's been a lot of fun. That's a hard-ass game. Yes. Shit, that's a hard game. Has anybody really beat that game? Yeah, I bet there are, but I don't know anyone who has. You know, I was just thinking back to all the games you have available and remember seeing the Flippin' Out Theater, which also has a storage section. Did you notice on the boxes with the bonds that they said not to put them up on the shelves, which is different than any other game I had seen? Really?
    128:29
    It's because they don't, because James Bond doesn't allow stacking. Oh, my God. Wow. I fucking walked right into it. I was like, shit, am I storing them wrong? Just don't tell the licensor. It doesn't allow stacking. GG. The new code does, Dennis. It ruins the joke, and I didn't want to throw it away, so I'm using it. But you wouldn't have updated your code, so you still can't. It's still relevant online. You can't stack out there. Hey, I get my Bond 6th hopefully this week. Man, can't wait to play that. TPN last. Look, people, if you want to buy some cool shit, get a hold of us. That's all I can say. Like, for example, Foo Fighters, boom. You want one? If you've got a location and you want one of the first pros, get a hold of me ASAP and get it for you. Bye, bye, bye. You want one of the first premiums? I don't think we're full yet. We're getting quite a few premiums. Get a hold of us. Bye, bye, bye. JJP's next one. Reach out. I'll try to make you an offer you can't review. Bye, bye, bye.
    129:32
    You're a wizard, Michael Kovalev. Oh. If you like the funk that GGF has to offer, get on my LIST. Get on the list. Don't be a lino. Bye, bye, bye. Last week at TPN, final round, pinball podcast, episode 66 called Commentators. I have a lot of feedback on this one. Jeff's all about the hard takes. This single-handedly went from, oh, my God, this was my favorite episode of the Final Round Pinball Podcast for numerous reasons. It was a study. It was a master class in podcasting, in comedy, in storytelling, in writing. It's going to go over so many heads that I think I caught it. I think I understood it. I get it. It is the satire that we need in this world. So much so that I think that Marty and Jeff are just getting old, and they meant a lot of it. But to me, it hit home as true, true irony and satire in this dark comedy. Sure. They're smarter than they deserve to be over there at Final Round. They were mean to me. Oh, they did kind of kill you. So mean. Well, it makes the feeling better. Everything was opposite in that, so they actually like you. So don't feel bad. Please. I was just like, come on. Just because you dress your kids up all the same.
    131:04
    The gun the Clone Wars has. Oh, we got TPN last week off the record, Pinball Podcast, Episode 19, Pinball Innovators and Makers Podcast. A lot of good feedback on that. Maybe, just maybe, it'll become a regular here at TPN. Now, I don't know if this was yesterday that this aired or later this week, but Triple Drain Pinball Podcast has an episode coming. Next week, you're going to hear the Pinball Party Podcast, too. Ooh, some strong takes coming from those guys. Mm-hmm. We're due for a free play at some point. We're also due. We're getting closer to a Chronicles. Yeah, should be. Getting closer to a Chronicles. But you heard this episode, and that's really all you need to stay up to date and entertained in pinball. For Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Manning. And I say, remember, folks, that, you know, we're hearing about all these games. All these games are starting to come out, and you might want to credit the manufacturers, but credit yourselves. We deserve the credit. Yes. It's our demands for more pinball that have driven the hobby to come up with all these creations. So, as some wise folks once said, we built these paper mountains. Are the games going to be good? Are they going to be bad? We don't know. But truth or consequence, say it aloud. And always practice safe pinball. And come tomorrow, everybody be poo-poo-fied. Oh, my God. That's a fact. Everybody was too foofed by it It was fucking so bad That's probably the better one You know what That was the GTF version of a closer break Yeah Yes, yes, yes. All right, that's good. Okay.