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Ep 86: Harry Potter and the Sleeve of Wizards

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 14m·held·Jul 3, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Harry Potter achieves massive success as JJP's biggest release; hosts debate post-blockbuster sustainability.

Summary

Jeff Teolis and Ryan Singh host Martino (a returning guest) to discuss Jersey Jack Pinball's Harry Potter machine release. The discussion covers the game's successful execution of a massive license, pricing across multiple editions ($9,999–$15,000 USD), flipper mechanics, and the broader question of how manufacturers sustain success after blockbuster releases. They also briefly discuss the upcoming Predator pinball from Pinball Brothers and market dynamics for non-US manufacturers.

Key Claims

  • Harry Potter is the biggest licensed pinball machine ever released since Martino's involvement in the hobby

    high confidence · Martino explicitly compares it to Star Wars and states it trumps Star Wars in scale

  • Eric Minor and the Jersey Jack team are dedicated fans who read the Harry Potter books, not just watched movies

    high confidence · Martino references a Retro Ralph featurette where Eric listed his Harry Potter credentials; speakers note the game was 'made by nerds' and 'potterheads'

  • Harry Potter addresses previous flipper weakness issues that plagued recent Jersey Jack releases

    high confidence · Ryan reports 'all reports that I've heard so far is that that's not the case. They've really sorted it out with the flipper feel and the flipper strength this time'

  • The Arcade Edition (Pro) is priced at $9,999 USD; Wizard Edition at ~$12,000 USD; Collector's Edition at ~$15,000 USD

    high confidence · Ryan provides specific pricing: 'The Arcade Edition is $9,999 American' and converts to Australian dollars; Jeff confirms US pricing

  • Limited edition pinball machines no longer hold or appreciate in value like they used to

    high confidence · Jeff states: 'JJP games like almost any games at the moment um aren't holding their value' and notes 'we're now at a point in the industry where that is not happening anymore'

  • Jersey Jack's previous licenses (Avatar, Toy Story, Godfather) received poor reception compared to Elton John

    high confidence · Jeff references checking JJP's website and observes 'not many people have nice things to say about Avatar, Godfather and Toy Story' but Elton John is universally praised

  • Spooky Pinball and Pinball Brothers have different business models and face fewer post-blockbuster sustainability pressures than Stern/JJP

    medium confidence · Martino contrasts Spooky's approach ('they sell out whatever they want to do') with Stern and Jersey Jack's need for consistent high-volume output

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm not necessarily a huge Star Wars fan, but I've obviously watched all the movies many times. I've even watched like the Ewok special. So whatever...With the Potter world, I think it's a little bit deeper than just the surface story.”

    Martino @ ~10:00 — Explains why Harry Potter is a more complex licensed game than Star Wars due to deeper lore requiring integrated details

  • “This machine needed to be made by nerds, and that's what we got...we really needed to be potterheads that didn't just watch the movies a couple of times, but people that read the books.”

    Martino @ ~12:00 — Core thesis about why Jersey Jack succeeded: hiring designers who are genuine fans of the franchise

  • “JJP games like almost any games at the moment um aren't holding their value, which is a weird thing to say because it's like, why would something brand new hold its value? That's that's quite normal. It's just pinball has been growing up to a certain point where you could buy the limited edition pinball machines and break even, lose very little or make money on your purchase. That is, we're now at a point in the industry where that is not happening anymore.”

    Jeff @ ~42:00 — Signals a major shift in collector market dynamics—secondary market depreciation of premium editions is becoming normalized

  • “I don't think it's a fair question because we don't know what success looks like for each of these companies...What it really comes down to is, what is the next license? How many of them do they want to sell over what time before we start seeing what the game after the next game is?”

    Martino @ ~47:00 — Reframes sustainability concerns post-blockbuster by emphasizing production throughput and time-to-revenue models

  • “They're across the sea and all this stuff. I mean, there's a reason Barrels of Fun is based in Houston, Texas. It's American made. I think a lot of North Americans, for whatever reason, have fear of buying across the sea.”

    Jeff @ ~62:00 — Identifies geographic and supply-chain friction as real barriers for non-US manufacturers (Pinball Brothers) in North America

  • “I think there's so much rich lore behind the scenes as well as the books in particular that do go further into the lore. So I think with one machine, to Ryan's point, with one machine that needs to do it all...this is everything. So all eight movies, seven books, and they've had to get it right this one time because there probably won't be another Harry Potter machine.”

Entities

Harry PottergameJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyJeff TeolispersonRyan SinghpersonMartinopersonEric Minorperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Harry Potter shipped as Jersey Jack's biggest commercial success; available in 5 editions with strong venue and home collector adoption

    high · Multiple mentions of exceptional sales, ranking #1 on Pinside, Game of the Year awards implied by context

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jersey Jack hired designers who are dedicated Harry Potter fans (read books, not just movies) to ensure authentic integration of deep lore

    high · Martino: 'This machine needed to be made by nerds' and reference to Eric Minor's credentials in Retro Ralph featurette

  • ?

    product_concern: Recent Jersey Jack games had spongy flipper feel; Harry Potter reports confirm issue resolved

    high · Ryan: 'all reports that I've heard so far is that that's not the case. They've really sorted it out with the flipper feel'

  • $

    market_signal: Limited edition pinball machines no longer hold value or appreciate; shift from previous era where collectors could break even or profit

    high · Jeff: 'JJP games like almost any games at the moment um aren't holding their value...we're now at a point in the industry where that is not happening anymore'

  • ?

    business_signal: Industry questions whether Stern (King Kong) and Jersey Jack (Harry Potter) can maintain momentum after mega-releases; previous titles (Avatar, Toy Story, Godfather, X-Men) underperformed

    medium · Jeff poses question: 'How do you come back after King Kong if you're Stern? How do you come back after Harry Potter if you're Jersey Jack?'; Martino reframes around throughput model

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.223

0:00
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I've got a better intro. It's player versus player, and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round.
0:30
Welcome to Final Round. You thought you'd have to wait four months. No, I don't even think it was four weeks. My name is Jeff Teolis. I'm Ryan Singh. We have a special guest. And, you know, when you have a big release like Harry Potter, Ryan's not going to cut it. I'm not going to cut it. We need an actual expert. We need someone who's into wands. We had a co-host that once did that. Unfortunately, as you know, he's doing other things. So, you know, you thought I went to Austria and Paris. Little did you know, I took a little train at track 9-3... I took a little trip... I fucking tried to do this so hard. Don't you dare edit it out, Jeff. I took a little trip on a train ride at track 9-3 quarters, and I went to Hogwarts, and I asked, can I please have your greatest expert ever? And they're joining us right now, ladies and gentlemen, to talk all things Harry Potter. I give you Professor Martino Gin Gobbler. Martino!
1:40
Hello, everybody. I'd love to say it's great to be back, but it's back. Yeah, it's back. And Harry Potter's here, and we've got an actual, I don't want to say pinball wizard. it's overdone but my god are you excited about this pinball martino um look i am as excited about this pinball as i have been for the last 12 months you've got to be more excited i'm okay look i i look at this hobby at the moment very and i say very objectively because there's a lot less emotion in it than there used to be. So I do look at this as being an objective piece. So I ask myself objectively, did they handle the license well? Have they got the right assets? Is the integration on point overall for such a massive, massive license? Have they done it justice? So that's how I look at this objectively. And did you get a boner? um i was one of those people who thought it's too big of a license for them to do it properly surely everyone will be upset and due to the way that they kind of well information leaked out and i think the conversations turns to different things um and now that it's been released i think when i think when the majority of people are complaining about things like art i think that's you know, you've produced an amazing pinball machine. Okay, Ryan, it's too big of a license. So when you say that, I've always felt, and Star Wars might have been a license like that too, you can't get bigger than Star Wars, you can't get bigger than Harry Potter. So does that mean you're only going to disappoint, especially with Harry Potter, well, Star Wars too, where you have so many different things in the universe? Oh, you forgot this one thing. So were the expectations that something was missed or are you like me, who knows very little about Harry Potter, and looks at this game and goes, that looks fucking cool.

Predator pinball has been in development for over a decade under Kevin Kulik/Spooky before being passed to Pinball Brothers

medium confidence · Speakers reference 'over a decade ago' and note it 'almost came out and then it didn't,' creating mystique around the license

Martino @ ~9:00 — Articulates the high-stakes, 'one-shot' nature of the Harry Potter license and the burden it places on execution

  • “What about the flippers, right? Because in recent times, some games out of the box have felt a little bit spongy with the flippers and not tight...And all reports that I've heard so far is that that's not the case. They've really sorted it out with the flipper feel and the flipper strength this time.”

    Ryan @ ~25:00 — Addresses a known complaint about recent JJP releases and confirms resolution on Harry Potter

  • “eventually, you know, when we talk about pinball machines like the Addams Family, eventually pinball machines will get to the right owner...And then that's when they go up in value because people stop selling them as much.”

    Jeff @ ~45:00 — Counterpoint to depreciation concerns—long-term collectibility argument based on historical examples

    • Retro Ralph
    person
    Joe Catzperson
    Pinball Brotherscompany
    Kevin Kulikperson
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    King Konggame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Elton Johngame
    Wizard of Ozgame
    Avatargame
    Toy Storygame
    Godfathergame
    Predatorgame
    Barrels of Funcompany
    Addams Familygame
  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Martino initially critical of Elton John (person/music) but after playing the game, reversed position to 'fantastic' and 'so good'

    high · Martino: 'I thought it sucked...But yes, but I hadn't played the game...It is fantastic. It is so good'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Jersey Jack's animation and screen technology significantly outpaces Stern (10-year gap noted); Stern has improved but not caught up

    high · Ryan: 'Stern hasn't caught up yet to what Jersey Jack was doing 10 years ago'; 'No one is as close to doing what they're doing' on animations

  • ?

    product_strategy: Harry Potter Collector's Edition uses undefined ordering window to drive FOMO; limited-time availability before production ends permanently

    high · Ryan: 'there's an undefined ordering window that you need to order it. And then they're going to make them all, and then that's it. They'll never make it again'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Predator has been in development for 10+ years; previously held by Spooky/Kevin Kulik before moving to Pinball Brothers; mystique around long development cycle

    medium · Speakers reference 'over a decade ago' and note it 'almost came out and then it didn't'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Pinball Brothers faces significant barriers as non-US manufacturer: tariffs (50% on steel/aluminum mentioned), supply-chain fear, geographic friction in North America

    medium · Ryan and Jeff discuss tariff/parts availability concerns for overseas manufacturers; Jeff notes Barrels of Fun advantage as US-based

  • ?

    community_signal: Harry Potter praised as example of high-quality, fan-focused license execution; Avatar, Toy Story, Godfather cited as poor receptions; broader pattern of JJP licensing variability

    high · Jeff: 'not many people have nice things to say about Avatar, Godfather and Toy Story'; contrast with universal Elton John praise

  • ?

    content_signal: Retro Ralph's featurette interview with Jersey Jack team (featuring Eric Minor) shaped community understanding of designer credentials and production philosophy

    medium · Martino references watching featurette on Retro Ralph YouTube; Eric Minor listed 'Harry Potter credentials'; influenced speakers' perception of authenticity

    • 3:58
    Yeah, I mean, I can't speak from personal experience of reading all the books and growing up and wanting to be a wizard and lining up to buy a special wand and wanting to be sorted by the sorting hat at my local party. Nobody buys wands, that's freaking stupid. I don't look at people and say, yeah they're definitely a Ravenclaw but what I can do is talk to people who do that and engage in the Wizarding World and you brought up Star Wars Jeff and I think Star Wars yes it's a bigger license but it's how many Star Wars pinball machines are there is a lot and Star Wars has it's been done to a certain point maybe never to everyone's satisfaction but Harry Potter has been touched. So I would say it's, you know, since I've been involved in the pinball hobby, the biggest licensed pinball machine that's ever been released. I think it trumps Star Wars in that category. Well, it's the first time it's done. Martino, what do you think? So to that point, and remember, I'm not necessarily a huge Star Wars fan, but I've obviously, I've watched all the movies many times. I've even watched like the Ewok special. So whatever. So my take on it is this, and I'm going to be a bit biased because obviously I'm a big fan of the Potter world. But what you get in the Star Wars movies is really good stories, but you get the story told to you and it's all pretty much what you see is what you get. With the Potter world, I think it's a little bit deeper than just the surface story. There's so much rich lore behind the scenes as well, as well as the books in particular that do go further into the lore. So I think with one machine, to Ryan's point, with one machine that needs to do it all, whereas with the Star Wars machines, they've kind of kept to either a movie or the modern movies. So they can be contained to those particular story elements. This is everything. So all eight movies, seven books, and they've had to get it right this one time because there probably won't be another Harry Potter machine. Well, maybe. Maybe they'll do a Fantastic Beasts. I doubt it. Yeah, it's not like Lord of the Rings was done and Hobbit was done. You're right. That'll never happen. No, but it's not like they did.
    6:33
    But they didn't do a Lord of the Rings for each movie, right? You know what I mean? And also, it's three movies each as opposed to eight movies in one. So, look, there was a lot they could have got wrong with this. And my initial impressions are not only did they get everything that they needed to get, I think they've implemented it really well. Some subtle things like the mirror of Erised, which obviously you know that means desire spelt backwards. And that's the mirror that shows you everything that your heart desires. and that's like a mystery award. So they've not only got the assets, you can tell, you can absolutely tell that this has been put together by fans. It has to be, right? I mean, think of other games. And Ryan, you know this. Like Dungeons & Dragons, I don't know that world, but was there a more perfect person than Dwight Sullivan to program that? A guy who's a true and true gamer. And I just played it on the weekend at the RPC and it makes sense that someone like that is looking after that. It looks like Eric and the team that have done Harry Potter have all these things that the casual fan who just wants to play good pinball and, wow, that's a cool mech and this and that, it's there, but the diehards are like, oh, did you get desire backwards because I need that ripoff of The Shining when they had red rum and it was murder in the mirror. Yeah, I called it. That's what it was. Not the same.
    8:05
    Yeah, I listened. I watched the featurette that I think was on the Retro Ralph YouTube channel and the interview with the Jersey Jack team prominently Eric Meunier and yeah, I mean like every game, he's a super passionate guy but he listed his Harry Potter credentials he listed all of the nerdy things that he's done throughout his life and I said, Marty, you'd be a better judge than me. How many nerd points he gets for that? But, yeah, I think it's the right guy making the Pimmel machine. Yeah, this machine needed to be made by nerds, and that's what we got. It's not like the hobby's full of nerds. I mean, we're all, like, massive jocks. No, but we were potterheads, right? We really needed to be potterheads that didn't just watch the movies a couple of times, but people that read the books. Like, I can't remember who it was. One of the persons in that featurette had obviously read the books before the movies, right? So we're talking like real serious fans of the world. That's what you needed. Well, did you need it? For it to be coming across as a really good, authentic tribute to the Potter world, that's who you needed because they needed some of the subtleties, not just the, well, here's all the stuff that you saw in the movies. They really did go those couple of layers down, which the true fans will appreciate and also the casual fans will also get what they want. Who are they selling this to? Is it primarily the pinheads or is it actual, this is going to be my first machine because my kids love Harry Potter and yeah, I'm going to give $10,000 or whatever it is in the country you're in. Who is this made for or is it really anybody who's got the deep wallet? Well, if this is for kids, if they're aiming this to kids, who's going to be more critical of what they put in the game than kids, right? They will pick it apart if their favourite thing from the movies is not there, or the books. I think it's a really interesting franchise and pinball machine to bring out because there aren't that many pinball machines that I feel like the purchaser, if they're a part of a family, can purchase and say whether or not it's true or not, like, this is for the family versus I'm buying this pinball machine for me. I'm buying Led Zeppelin for me. I'm buying Walking Dead for me. I feel like I've read a lot of comments of people saying, like, yeah, I showed my family and we are in. Whether or not that's just a buyer's justification to buy it for them regardless. But I feel like it is a pinball machine for the whole family. Let's face it. How many families are out there going, look, kids, the chances of you making something out of yourself in life and me wasting that money on college or university, let's just get the fucking game and keep you happy, keep you out of my hair, get you off your iPhones for a second. No, I think this game has got a lot of potential for first-time buyers. And I was wondering, with that much Harry Potter universe, the eight movies, the seven books, modes get you a piece of all of that and you can only do so much on the play field so i haven't really seen a lot of gameplay i watched a little bit that flipping out did but um i think modes get you the assets on the play field is there anything martino that you were thinking i needed this to be in the game and oh i don't visually see it yet physically on the play field no because I think the most important things that they wanted to put in there are there. My question was going to be art style, because I've always been a fan of, well, I still think, arguably, for me personally, one of my favorite art packages is The Hobbit by Josie Jack. I really liked that art style. And this isn't the same, but is in that realm of being a little bit dark, a little bit gothy, quite colourful, but not cartoony, not Photoshop, but not too far removed from realistic depictions of characters and elements of the film. But everything that I wanted in this is there. And in fact, sometimes I look at and I sort of zoom in and I go, oh my God, they've got that as well. That's very cool. So I don't think they miss much. Ryan, there are a lot of Stern fanboys out there. And why wouldn't you be? Because Stern is a great company that is the leader in pinball. This is a Jersey Jack machine where they've put a lot of stuff into this. when this license came out and I didn't know if it was going to be Stern or Jersey Jack and not to take anything away from Stern, I was hoping Jersey Jack would get this. Mainly because they were going to put a lot into it. They have a great team there. But it really, for me, was all about, believe it or not, that huge screen that they use. And like in Wizard of Oz, where you've got the four different sections and you can see everything going on at once, I just like the way they utilize their screen better than any company and i'm saying it a jersey jack does it the best they've got that big screen you can see everything it's hard to see when you're playing but if you're watching the game in the background i think that's a hell of an attract mode and i learn a lot by watching that screen your thoughts yeah it's got a massive screen i think it's twofold though i think they have the best person in the business by far um working on it like if you look at something like I would even say if you look at Wizard of Oz I mean I made a joke last podcast about how Stern updated their menu system and they're almost at what Jersey Jack was at 10 years ago if you look at the animations on a game like Wizard of Oz and yes it has been updated since it was released 10 years ago and they've updated many times with improvements if you look at a game like X-Men and you look at a game like Wizard of Oz and you compare them side by side, Stern hasn't caught up yet to what JGP was doing 10 years ago. And they've improved. If you watch something like Elton John, the animations on that and how they come at you, they're in a league of their own. No one is as close to doing what they're doing. Does that make or break the game? No. But I think most people, I think there was a time when people kind of said they don't want JGP to make their dream thing, but I'm pretty sure most people are happy that, yeah, they trust Jersey Jack. If they don't fuck up the license, I think it was like, what, Toy Story and maybe Pirates of the Caribbean where they, like, struggled with the license.
    15:07
    But I believe they've said, you know, they're not interested in doing pinball machines anymore unless they get everything, access to everything. So it sort of brings me to the one, well, there's two unknowns, and I'll get to price in a second. But the big unknown for me, and this is the feedback that I get from a lot of people still to this day, is they can make a game that looks pretty, right? They can also make a game that's got extreme rules, right? That just seem to go on forever. The one but that everyone's sort of said to me is, yeah, but what about the flippers, right? Because in recent times, some games out of the box have felt a little bit spongy with the flippers and not tight. and I would say for me that was when Dialed In first came out and I believe they did change their Flipper Max then but from Wizard of Oz to Hobbit the Flippers were really snappy and intuitive and then we had varying degrees of that and the reason why I bring that up because for me that was going to be a well it can look as great as it does but if it still feels a bit spongy and weak that's going to ruin the fun and all reports that I've heard so far is that that's not the case they've really sorted it out with the flipper feel and the flipper strength this time i believe they fixed that with elton john um yeah yeah i believe north americans have been complaining about it since the get-go whereas australians are like ah it's not that bad and people theorize maybe it's the the voltage difference here but um apparently after i think elton john is being fixed for everyone in their flipper mechs and flipper feel is amazing is that a north america thing or is that again a stern fanboy thing yeah they don't feel like stern flippers right they don't neither do american neither do spooky neither do bally williams and got leaves they're all different most stern flippers like they are stupidly overpowered from the get-go and i think my theory is that there are you know previously so many games on location where out of the box the game plays perfectly and then the flippers will slowly deteriorate and what happens is metal hits on metal that you know the the flipper i i call it the piss and i know it's gonna call that but like the the flipper mechanic mushrooms a tiny bit and basically a tiny bit of metal will scrape up against the inside of a coil and it it reduces the power by 10 which is enough to not make a ramp but if you have overpowered flippers to begin with then when it's in that state of 10 20 reduced power it still gets up the the ramps and i think for them that's the lesser of the two evils to have pinball machines playing like lightning out of the uh out of the box but to your point jeff saying they don't feel like stern no they don't but as i'll go back to wizard of oz and Wizard of Oz in particular. Wizard of Oz felt like a Bally Williams from the 90s. And to a degree, so did Hobbit. As I said, after that, something changed. They got their own feel, which was polarizing for some people. But yeah, I did play Elton John recently. And to Ryan's point, it did feel like they have addressed it and fixed it. But the other point I wanted to ask and I do not know this as we are recording which is you know today not January 17th Oh no here are our predictions Fuck you
    18:38
    No, that was hilarious. That was so funny. This is the question I do not know the answer to. What's the price? I do not know.
    18:49
    The, I don't know what their pro is called. Is it the CE, Ryan? Arcade Edition, I think they call it this time. I mean, they change the name every single fucking time. Okay. The arcade edition is $10,000 American, which is a good price, I think, for what you're getting. I'll give you the Aussie price. I'll give you the translator prices, Marty. I think it's around $17,000 Australian dollars, including GSD. Okay, for a pro? Yes, but the pro does... It's not a stripped-down version, so the pro has, I believe, the same play field. Not exactly everything. I don't think it has the insane light rails and everything, but it's $17,400. The Wizard Edition, Jeff, that's your limited edition, which will be the one that will be the most produced.
    19:42
    When you say most produced, are they not capping the number or just how many orders? I don't have that information in front of me, but I think previously they said 5,000 for the limited editions, and I think Guns N' Roses is the one that got the closest, but they're not going to sell the same amount of any other version. I think they're... Yeah. So if they follow the same thing as previous versions, which I'm sorry, I'm not going to pretend that I know that. Yeah, the Wizard Edition is $20,500 in Australia money, and Jeff, you've probably got the US figures there somewhere. No idea. It's a lot of money. Bottom line, it's a lot of money. What about the Collector's Edition? Quentin's edition, I believe, it's unlimited, but there's an undefined ordering window that you need to order it, and then they're going to make them all, and then that's it. They'll never make it again, how big that ordering window is. Ruby Red.
    20:45
    McGonagall edition. That's $25,500 Australian dollars. Sorry for everyone in the US. Jeff, this is your... I don't fuck I don't it's a number it doesn't matter I'll just go and you guys who love that FOMO shit and you know gotta have it and uh you know I'm I'm adamant about never buying a pinball machine ever again until I play it if there's a window like Martino says I wonder if they'll jump that if that's if they're sticking to that you know I'm not gonna there's there's ways around that there's a window and then a distributor can be like well just give me a bunch more anyway and they'll they'll sit on the stock um it's okay it's so it's $9,999 for the arcade edition so $1 less than 10 grand uh $12,000 for the wizard edition and $15,000 US for the collector's edition it's expensive it's expensive jjp games like almost any any games at the moment um aren't holding their value which is a weird thing to say because it's like why would something brand new hold its value that's that's quite normal it's just pinball has been growing up to a certain point where you could buy the limited edition pinball machines and break even lose very little or make money on your purchase that is we're now at a point in the industry where that is not happening anymore um people have noted they always use i think guns and roses as their measuring stick because Guns N' Roses sold so freaking well. And like we're kind of predicting with Harry Potter, Guns N' Roses brought a lot of people into the hobby to buy their first pinball machine. And when it comes time to sell it, there's just more on the market. Yeah. I've also, one more thing, sorry. I've also heard people say that, you know, yes, the more successful a pinball machine is, the more it drops in value. I would like to remind people eventually you know when we talk about pinball machines like the adams family eventually pinball machines will get to the right owner it'll get to the owner who will want to keep it forever or the one that it clicks with the most right like plenty of people who are like i will buy every new pinball machine and then i'll sell it because i don't actually connect with it and like it but there will be a point in the future whether it be decades from now or years from now that people it's in the right home and then that's when they go up in value because people stop selling them as much the end i have a question and i don't want to take anything away from harry potter because i really want to play it but people are asking the question they always do what's next and what i want to know about what's next is how do you come back after harry potter if you're jersey jack how do you come back after king kong if you're stern because i think of recent games i think of and i'm not talking negatively about any of these games i'm questioning how successful they have been when it comes to sales avatar for jersey jack dungeons and dragons x-men john wick They are certainly not Harry Potter and King Kong. And is that troubling for Stern, for Jersey Jack? I mean, and I only use those two as examples because Spooky gives Evil Dead, they sell out whatever they want to do. Turner does their limited editions. There's different models. There is no real model like that of this is all we're making for Stern and for Jersey Jack. Are they in trouble after these licenses? after King Kong, after Harry Potter? So, good question. Great question. Excellent question. Oh, my God, mate. So, it really... You miss it, don't you? Oh, my God. You miss it. Oh, God. Listen, kicking and screaming is what's happened, bringing me back today. Bullshit. Not going well, is what I'm saying. So, look, shut up.
    24:56
    Okay, it's a good question. I don't think it's a fair question. because it's a good question because it opens up the topic around, well, what does success look like? It's not a fair question because we don't know what success looks like for each of these companies. So, sure, they are on a massive hit right now. Does that mean if their next title sells half the units, it's a failure? No, because it's about the interval. It's about their throughput, how many they need to sell over time to make a decent profit. So, like Guns N' Roses, which is a good example, They sold a lot of them and then they produced those for many years and made a lot of money over two years. Then they've had to release a game every year or 18 months, whatever it's been, because that's what now that interval is to make this certain amount of machines that they've sold. So what it really comes down to is what is the next license? How many of them do they want to sell over what time before we start seeing what the game after the next game is? and as long as they've got enough throughput, they're selling enough units over time, they're fine and that's what success looks like. And for Stern in particular, because as you talked about, they've had some licences that had I been recording, I probably would have been a little bit harsh on them, but they haven't been good licences and I don't even think King Kong is a good licence even though you put that into the category of Harry Potter. I don't, but it doesn't matter. As long as they've got enough units sold to keep the factory open and to keep their profits at a certain percentage. That's all they need to do. King Kong might be a great license, but it's a seasoned veteran who made the game. I knew you were going to do it, Jeff. I knew you were going to say that. We all did. God forbid you should say something new. It's interesting because I'm on the Jersey Jack website and in between Guns N' Roses you have Toy Story 4, Godfather, Elton John and Avatar. and everyone that I've... I don't think I've actually heard someone say they don't like Elton John.
    27:02
    But not many people have nice things to say about Avatar, Godfather and Toy Story. I'll tell you who doesn't like Elton John. This fucking wizard from Hogwarts with us right now didn't like the movie Rocketman. Oh, I thought it sucked. Oh, get fucked. This is not true. So I have said to you that I think Elton John's a cunt. right that that i said but yes but i hadn't played the game i liked the look of it i've now played a number of times it is fantastic it is so good and i get the big criticism i thought was oh it just looks like star star trek or it looks like spider-man because it is a very similar layout but as we know you put anything different as far as the materials go the game is going to play differently and it does and also as much as i dislike elton john's music i found myself really enjoying it when i was playing it so it's it really is about integration it's about giving me an experience in that world which they did okay let's tie a bow on harry potter because we've got other things to do should we um martino do you have a can you wave your wand and give us a spell to help jersey jack with their sales like just say something i don't know like um cromwell where are you so something i don't know what the spells are i don't i can't i just don't know why i'm back here i just i i can't i can't i can't i can't explain it doesn't matter right lumos there you go light up the world move it on okay we're waiting now for predator and I don't understand the hype for Predator. I've seen the movie. Is it because it has been talked about for a long time? I'm not poo-pooing it by any means. I just don't understand like, oh, I can either wait to see Predator or am I really? Like, I can think of Schwarzenegger movies and that's not even in my top five. What is your top five then, Jeff? Go. True Lies, Terminator 2.
    29:05
    Do it slowly. Total Recall. Yeah, I don't know. Total Recall for sure. I'd rather see Total Recall anyway go on so Predator what is it for you guys I've really found it interesting I think it's like the I feel like the way that people launch pinball machines is talked about way too much like everyone's a marketing expert but I really feel for the way they I feel like Jersey Jack there were rumors that Harry Potter wasn't going to come out so they were like okay let's tease Predator and let's bring it out. And I think a couple of days leading up, every couple of days, they would show something that was frustrating, like just show us the pinball machine. And then Jersey Jack were like, okay, we're going to release Harry Potter in T-minus five days. I don't know. I guess the hype is around the fact that Kevin Kulik with Skippy was going to bring out the pinball machine. When was that? That was over a decade ago. Oh, it would be 10 years, wouldn't it? Yeah, it was a long time. I think it was before we started head-to-head even. Yeah, yeah. So I guess there's like that mystique about the license. Like, oh, it almost came out and then it didn't. And that makes it like Big Bang Bar or these collectible pinball machines. And like, I wonder what it's going to be like now. I feel like it's a pinball machine that a couple of hundred people will buy. It might be amazing. I don't know. It's a great movie to watch if you want to watch a bunch of gym bros hunting down an alien. It will be, dare I say, a pinball that exists for me.
    30:41
    Way to do something new. Right? But what I'm going to add to that is, he's actually been holding on to that for the last five minutes. He's really bitter about that. It's not the only thing I'm holding on to, baby.
    30:53
    So, here's what I think about The Predator License. I think that it's in a bubble. Some people absolutely love it, and it's their favourite movie of all time. I just don't think there's that many people that fall into that category. I think it's a good license. I think it's a fun license. But just to highlight how much I have been out of the pinball world, I have heard someone's doing Predator, but that's all I know. So fill me in. What's happened? It's pinball brothers, I believe. The same people that bought you Alien and Queen and Elton John. Are those all of their pinball machines, Jeff? Elton John. What the fuck? Sorry, sorry. Abba? Queen Abba. What did I say? Did I say Elton John? Sorry, it was on my screen. Yeah, a bunch of pinball machines. It's, I don't know. I feel like if it's not Stern or Jersey Jack, they'll do well. They'll sell the amount of pinball machines that is appropriate for a license like Predator from a small company. It's a good license for them. Okay. Geez, I don't know if we have any experts who can talk about this. I've played ABBA. I've played Queen. They're fine. Are they great games? No. Are they fun? Sure. I wonder how difficult it will be for a company that is not based in the United States to sell pinball machines to North Americans, the number one pinball buying community. Are they taking that tariff? I would say it's probably difficult. Forget the tariffs alone. Just the fear that North Americans have of like, oh, how am I going to get parts if something goes wrong? They're across the sea and all this stuff. I mean, there's a reason Barrels of Fun is based in Houston, Texas. It's American made. I think a lot of North Americans, for whatever reason, have fear of buying across the sea. Again, it comes back to how many machines do Pinball Brothers need to sell for them to be happy with keeping production and having enough money and enough profit. So, yeah, I mean, it's such a variable that we don't know. But I don't, obviously, I do know all the barriers to not doing it in North America. But it's not as complicated or as detrimental as you think. Tariff-wise, it's really hard because these things are changing all the time. Probably by the time we record, there'll be something else. But there was the, what was it, 50% increase in, well, 50% tariff on steel and aluminium, which I'm guessing... Sorry, is that how you say that in Australia? It's not aluminium, no. I know it's aluminium there, it's aluminium here. What the fuck? What have you been up to, Jeff? What have you been up to? Unless I'm saying it wrong, Matty. You're a colony, Jeff. You should be speaking the Queen's English or the King's English now. Aluminum. Queen's. Nah, okay. It's widely accepted. Do you say soda or solder? Solder. And I say... Where's the D silent?
    34:08
    I know what you're going to say, Jeff. Just be careful. Do you want me to say it? No. And I say pedophile, not pedophile.
    34:22
    I do that. Do you say caramel or caramel? Caramel. All right. So there you go. Cool. Anyway. I also say schedule, not schedule. I didn't go to shul to say schedule.
    34:40
    All right. Okay. Enough of Predator. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Predator. It's coming from Italy? Is that where they're making it? I believe. Pedretti? Isn't Pedretti Italy? Where the fuck are Pinball Brothers? Oh, man. We're experts. Sweden?
    34:56
    All right. Let's move on from Predator. Yeah. They're not in America. That's all. Tariff will be applied. Yeah. I guess what we're gauging is, with the very limited information that we have, is anybody hyped about Predator Pinball Machine? Yeah. Yeah, they're called pinsiders who are like, what's next what's next and it gets released what's next after that oh they are in sweden but they're okay production is in italy but they're based in sweden anyway 10 tariff let's see what happens with that so i played i was at the epc in austria and they had pretty much every game you could play like there really wasn't anything missing the only thing i didn't see was like merlin's arcade but they had uh ninja pinball they had everything else you can imagine I played Abba, I played Queen I played Alice in Wonderland that's Pinball Brothers and I got to play it a lot more than when I first saw it at Expo is that Dutch Pinball? that one's Dutch and they had Bride of Pinball out there beside it as well too again I was playing it quite a bit and it's really got a neat wow factor the first few times you play it after a while I was like okay they probably need a little bit more here but different kind of unique flows. I don't know if it was set right because you'd hit an orbit shot and it would go straight down the middle. That wasn't cool. The ramp, the center ramp, that was very, very important. I was having trouble hitting it on the forehand, and I was backhanding it, so I don't know if it was just me not playing well. But anyway, I wanted to like it more. I know the art is certainly questionable, but it seemed fine, and I know they think they're a little behind in production. I'm curious to see how they'll do. I want everyone to do well. It's not just a politically correct thing to say. I really want everyone to do well. I hate seeing pinball companies come out with a bad license and it doesn't work for them and then they suffer. But we'll see how that game goes.
    36:55
    And I played King Kong. King Kong they had the pro the premium and the limited edition I sent a note to Elwin and I sincerely believe it my favorite of his layouts And I said vocally Jaws was my least favorite. So it's not just a rah-rah Keith fan. These two fucking idiots are making gestures on the video screen of massive blowjobs. And it's not. Keith's a buddy, and he knows how I felt about Jaws. Are you signing up massive? shots are too far away too much stop and go uh too many air balls uh too many rejects jaws didn't do it for me sorry and if you own it i'm not saying it's a shitty one of the greatest theme immersion games it is it is and that's okay i want to compare it for one second to what i've seen so far with harry potter it's i feel like in jaws you are in the movie like if you play that like without all the background noise of an arcade you are in the movie yes that does get repetitive and sometimes just like i want to get into it like don't make me watch this scene where scott's sitting there going i want to skip it but 96 modes on harry potter and from what i've seen it's just kind of like shooting flashing shots it doesn't feel like you're in the movie it feels like you're in the world but not you're not acting out things which some people don't care about some people do but I don't say that Jaws doesn't have... I know you're not saying that, you're saying other things but that makes up for a lot. I'm saying the mechanics of the game I don't like, of Jaws, period. Yeah, I totally get that. When we talk about X-Men, I really, really want to like X-Men. It sucks that the plunger sucks and I just played one where it was quote-unquote fixed and unfortunately it wasn't fixed. I had a lot of rejects. I really, really want to like that game And I don't even know anything about the comics at all. I just like seeing something different. And anyway, that's just that. But, hmm. Yeah, King Kong, okay. I've heard it a few times. I hope this isn't the case. I really do. The gong is causing issues on the premium and the LE. And they had to shut the games down at the EPC because the gong basically became a wall. You couldn't get it past. I don't know. So again, this could be game specific just to these two games, but you hit it and it wouldn't go through the gong. And I'm not talking a weak backhand. I'm talking forehand. I'm talking glass off. The fucking thing wouldn't move. There's a magnet underneath, right? So is that something software-wise where the magnet is on when it's not meant to be on? What is it on? It's a swinging gong, right? A heavy pendulum? I have no idea how the mech is, and someone will write in to us at finalroundpinball at gmail.com. I can't believe I remembered it. And let us know. But that being said, I told all my buddies, buy the pro.
    40:01
    I know there's nothing different. You know, sometimes, like, when you look at Godzilla, you can see the incredible pinball moment of the building coming down. It's got the turning mecha Godzilla and stuff. In Jaws, you've got the upper play field. In King Kong, I'm like, okay, the thing shakes, but if you like medieval madness, would you still play it if the castle didn't go... It's got the train. It's fine. It doesn't add to the pinball other than a wow moment, and the gong was the only thing that was noticeably different that was changing the game, and I was like, eh. That spider, it's still got the same shots on the pro. I'm allowed to say which one's my favorite. The pro is my favorite. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but if I, 10 years ago, and I think maybe everyone when they get into pinball, they're like, I want mechs, I want complicated things, I want to, like, get my money's worth, and then now that my involvement with pinball is a lot of fixing of things, I really like games like Deadpool that have fucking nothing in there, like, nothing, no, sorry, things can still definitely break, an opto can break a switch can break a up post can can break but yeah the more there is in a pinball machine the more the more love it needs and there are people that give a lot of love to pinball machines and it doesn't matter how complicated it is they will have it working 100 all the time there's plenty of people that own um pinball machines that have complicated mechs and they're broken and they don't know that they're broken because there's so much going on in a pinball machine they just get overwhelmed so i think if you're new to pinball like a pro is a great thing because there's less things to break it's cheaper you've just got to be willing to fix all the broken stuff just like life jeff pinball needs constant maintenance to work you can't let it fall apart because then it's overwhelming to fix it all up again so then i know this is a topic that we've talked many times over the years of well let's go the recent games of which recent games would you say a premium or uh an le or whatever a ce whatever they call it on the different companies, is an essential. And I mean an essential, not just a, oh, it's a little bit better and I'd miss it. But actually, you wouldn't get the pro because the pro is missing something. Without thinking about it too deeply, I don't think there is any. Yeah, that was kind of what I thought the answer would be. Yeah, I think the experience is better on an LE. Like you've got, you get an include check, which you can include, but you get like the light rails on stern machines. you get more, and it is a more premium experience. Like, when I hit the left spinner on an old machine like Walking Dead, it feels so much better on the left orbit than on a pro. It feels empty. But does that make or break the game? No. Does it make it better on the premium and the LE? Yes. But it's not, and no game is so shit in its pro form that you would say you have to get one. I would say sometimes premiums make things worse. I know people who own the premiums for Jaws, and they love that upper play field, so I'm going to say that was one that was noticeably different for the better if you had the premium. But I was playing, for example, X-Men. I was playing a premium this weekend, and every time that hand came down, whatever the sentinel hand or whatever it is, and knocked it off, I was like, I hate this game. Give me the pro. I can't stand it. I don't even know the differences on John Wick. I think it's the suitcase and stuff like that. Meh, whatever. Kong, I've already told you I'd rather have the Pro I don't even know what the differences are on Elton John because I don't really know what I was playing Elton John only has the like the arcade edition the cheap standard version cheap in inverted commas that didn't exist the last game that came out with that was Guns N' Roses so they skipped that for four or five models in between so there's no real difference between those models since Guns N' Roses. I've played a collector's edition of Elton John and I've played the whatever the next one down is, let's call it the limited edition and arguably the collector's edition is so wow. It's the only way I can describe it. It really, whatever they've added with all the foil inserts and stuff and there's more lights in it, it is just a more exciting experience. Is it worth the money? That's up to the person that's buying it, but absolutely noticeable difference. But I reckon a pro would still be a great game. The topper is something that's elite with that Elton John one. Back to Jersey Jacket, we didn't really talk about this with Harry Potter, but the conversations are out there with the J.K. Rowling thing and her stance on the trans community and her backwards thinking and the cast has come out and just distanced themselves from her views and whatnot. I am seeing, I am hearing some people express their legitimate concerns for a game like this coming out, and who am I to say you're right, you're wrong? Like you said, Ryan, you don't need to force somebody to buy a $17,000 machine, but we have a large trans community that plays pinball, and I can't even think of what they're feeling. But what's going to happen if this is in your favorite arcade, your favorite tournament? And will that change things? I don't know if we've had anything like this in a while. Okay. It is, as we know, a very delicate topic to talk about. And I know that some people would make the point, well, if you're... I won't quote anyone that said this, but you can't have an issue with the pinball machine and yet still own the books. Like if you've got a problem with JK Rowling, you should have a problem with everything. And I don't think that life is so black and white. It's not ones and zeros, Ryan, as you know. So it's going to be, it's just going to have to be a case by case scenario. If an operator or an owner or a location decides that they want to have that machine on site, then they should go into it eyes wide open, knowing that some people are going to object to it and aren't going to turn up or aren't going to support that location. So who's in the right here? Who is actually in the right? And I don't think there is a right and wrong here. It's all shades of the middle. I just want to make one point. I want to make one point, which I've been making offline for so long, my thoughts on the whole JK Rowling thing, right, is that in her books, in the world of Harry Potter, one of the main themes that she has put throughout all these books and movies is there's no such thing as good and evil right it's all shades in between i can't remember what the quote was but it's like not every wizard is either a death eater or a an aura or whatever like there's no good and evil it's it's all so if she's got that theme of saying that people don't fall into one box or the other why is she so adamant that saying that people do fall into male or female it just it doesn't seem in tune with her lessons that she's been saying through her books so you've now brought up a culture a a generation of people understanding that the world isn't black and white and now as adults you're telling them that things are black and white you shouldn't be surprised that people are saying, hang on, that doesn't make sense because you've said this, now you're saying that. Let's get some really expert thoughts on this. Oh, we don't have one. Ryan, what do you think?
    47:49
    I don't know. I find myself oscillating between what everyone is saying because on one side of the fence, people are passionate about, well, it's not like a faceless corporation that's doing this. It's an individual and you can see her and people formerly idolized her and now she's the devil. And she's actively come out and said, like, when you buy Harry Potter merch, I will make money off it and I will donate that money towards anti-trans groups and putting money towards the progress that the trans community has made in certain areas. And then I see the other side of it when I see people that are angry and saying, I can't believe people are going to buy this machine and if you buy it, you're supporting this. and if you're an arcade and you buy it, we will not come to your location anymore and I'm sure that'll include review bombing places saying like, this place is horrible. And that makes me really sad simply because I love pinball so much and I know that pinball machines don't make anywhere near as much money as so much other crap, so much other brain rot out there in arcades and for this little hobby to have this thing ripping people one way or another makes me really sad. And I think about everything else in the world that people turn a blind eye to because if you really want to care about everything, your brain would melt and explode and implode. No one gives a fuck about everyone has an iPhone or a smartphone and just look up what is required to make those things. I'm not talking about Foxconn and people committing suicide because they're working too much. I'm talking about the materials that are needed to make that, and cobalt mining and lithium mining, and EVs, fast fashion, diamonds. Even eating meat, to some people, is the devil. You are literally murdering animals, which people don't care about. And I'm not saying that I care about it, and I'm vegan, I'm better than you, I'm not, I love meat. but I'm saying that like people pick and choose what they're passionate about and this just happens to be something that people are really fucking passionate about but it upsets me when it affects pinball and that's just me being selfish and wanting everyone to hold hands and get along and it not affect the pinball hobby but this is the world we live in you're an operator and when you do buy pinball machines other than claw machines and kiddie gambling things and things that do make you money will you buy this machine? for your locations, knowing that's out there? It's really hard because I'm not in a financial position to buy it, and I feel like I'm taking the easy way out in answering this way, but there's no point in me buying a Harry Potter pinball machine for $17,000. I've got to make $5,000, $6,000 before I then have to break even if you include splitting profits with the venue. So it's just not worth it to me. Okay, if it was $10,000 and it was a good business decision, would I buy Harry Potter? I think I would I think if there are people in the trans community in Melbourne that wanted to have an open conversation with me about it of how I can support them and you know there's been talks of people saying like okay well then you know if we have a launch party then we're gonna you know donate you know money from that towards you know some kind of charity does that make a difference I don't know that's kind of like the carbon offset when you fly an aeroplane does it equal out a billionaire throwing millions of dollars and saying here you go here's 17.50 from from our local tournament but what i don't like is is the splitting of the community it's such a small niche hobby and i really hope that whatever happens with people getting this pinball machine i mean i already see it online on fate on jesse jack's facebook page on more unmoderated places like reddit like go in there and look at the comments it's makes my heart sink i really applaud people being passionate about what they believe in and yes you have to stand for things to make a change i just don't like the way it's it's done these days i don't know if anyone is convincing anyone to change their mind so like if you get all the arguing and put it together it's not done in a way that's like it's a big divide in the middle it's not like people like oh sorry now I see where you're coming from it's just like you're a fucking fascist pig if you do this you're a sensitive soul if you do that it's very binary at the moment Marty it really is and I find it disheartening as well I also think that we are in a point in time where the world will get better I say this as somebody that I know that's on their trans journey that tried to kill themselves and I had to basically talk them off a ledge and they are in a much better place now, which I'm happy about. But it's such a difficult journey with what's happening at the moment because there are so many extremes on either side that we forget that there are actually people in here that are getting seriously emotionally affected by this that we don't understand because it's not us. And we say, oh, well, what's their problem? Well, their problem is that the world's fucked and there's more of a spotlight on this and it can be really damaging. So, as I say, my experience is different to you. Have you ever had to talk to somebody because you've noticed that they've been harming themselves and finding out that they've been wanting to kill themselves, in fact, had attempted to kill themselves, and then try and turn that around? It's a crazy world, guys. I hope your friend's doing okay, and anybody listening can probably say, yeah, I know somebody, whatever they're going through, that has had some rough times. And, I mean, I don't know the person you're talking about, but my heart just is full for them right now. And, again, like, fuck, my goodness. I care about my business. I care about my family's business. And for everybody else, I don't know what you're going through. I don't know what's going on in your life, but, boy, I would love to live in a world where everyone is just at ease and everyone's happy with themselves and don't have to fight stupid fights like this. And, you know, unfortunately, we don't live in that world. And we can only do our small part. You're doing it. I'm doing it. Ryan's doing it. And hopefully the people listening are doing it as well, too. just uh just overall we we've talked about this so much about how just about all hobbies are toxic and i say this with it knowing that it's going to make absolutely no difference but i'll say it anyway it doesn't matter whether you've got a different opinion to me whether it's completely opposite to mine just talk respectfully be respectful right don't say horrible nasty hurtful things because you can get your point across but do it in a respectful manner is what i would say good god this final round not the greatest show ever changing lives selfishly this is where we should have a patreon and we would be fucking raking it in right now but but you know what we don't that's fine uh changing topics because that's the only way you get out of this one. I briefly mentioned I was at the EPC, and congratulations to Paul Englert, who beat Johanna Sostermeyer. I had a great time at the EPC. It was fun. I made top 32. I actually lost to the guy who won it all No one gives a shit about this stuff Jeff People want to know what happened in france oh fuck yeah so yes yes did you get mugged and you know assaulted and did you lose your wallet did you meet any french get a baby thrown at you one of the things ryan said did happen i will let you guess right baby was thrown at you jeff took a piss on the eiffel tower you contributed to the place smelling like piss there there was a lot of piss i will say that i'm not saying it's like i'm not saying it smelled like piss but everywhere you walked you saw piss stains on the cement because the dogs and stuff there's a lot of i'm sure there's humans too but uh yeah there was a lot of piss i'll say that but fuck i liked paris it was great it was i'm gonna go back and did we do everything we did some touristy stuff and has friends that live in paris so they gave us some non-touristy things to do which were just as fun i'm interested to know what the non-touristy stuff was jeff oh unique restaurants like we went to this restaurant on an island that was pretty awesome uh i want to do more countryside stuff just kind of neat places to see that weren't like they mean nothing on this podcast but just you know yes we did the eiffel tower yes we didn't go in the louvre because it was going to take too long we're going to go back and then do a full day at the louvre you just can't do the Louvre in an hour. So did Marty's favorite Hop On, Hop Off, which I recommend everyone do, wherever you are, especially in a big city, just to get a taste of it and then decide what you want to do.
    57:10
    What else did we do? Champs-Élysées? Champs-Élysées. Say it again, Jeff. Pedophile. Chomping on what? Schedule. What is it called? Champs-Élysées.
    57:24
    Not Champs-Élysées. You can't say that, Jeff. I don't think either of us are saying it right. I'm closer.
    57:33
    Hey, listen. I spoke. So Anne's bilingual. By the way, every time she spoke French, I just looked at her like, God, I love you. Like, it was so fucking cool. It's a very sexy language. It is so great. And it's been 35 years since I took a French class. It was coming back. Maybe not when I say champ de lissies, but it was coming back. And me speaking French, I could understand what people were saying for the most part. Me speaking it was kind of like I knew the words. I didn't know how to put them in the right order. So it would be like me, food, want, now, dinner, fish and chips with zero of Coke.
    58:16
    So it would be all fucked up like that. But they got it and they laughed and spit my food and gave me the shit. pissed on the floor. Anyway, it was good. I loved it. It was a great time. Fuck, I can't believe how long this show's going. You know what else is coming up very soon? The Beast. Yes, right after Pinberg, the Stern Pro Circuit event that I'm running in Buffalo. The Beast, baby. And I wanted to tell you two guys, I'm doing something special this tournament. This is the first time I'm announcing it. Flying us both over, Jeff? No, you gotta host Kate Martin, don't you? You got Kate Martin coming over to Australia for the first time for BPAC and stuff. What's your tournament that you've got for her? Explain that. It's called Kate's... Wait, what is the acronym? The acronym is... I know what the acronym is. Kate's Ultimate Nudging Tournament. K.U.N.T. It's Kate's Cunt Tournament. And she specifically asked for a tournament so that when people win, or if it jumps on their profile, it says cunt. And it's been approved, so it's happening. Thanks, Josh Sharp.
    59:20
    It's spelled with a K. It's fine. Very cool. Well, I'm not doing that at the Beast, but what I am doing, sometimes people get a little unruly at tournaments, and sometimes yellow cards get issued. Heaven forbid a red card gets issued. But for the first time ever, I'm going to be handing out brown cards. If somebody has a violent fart, they get a brown card. If they get two, they've got to spend five minutes in the toilet, give me a courtesy wipe or something. I'm thinking about everyone around me alright people's personal space and the funny thing is I'm probably the one doing it I was just going to say you're the biggest offender can you give yourself a brown card or can you allocate some to others to give to you because you are the worst Jeff there's you crop dust you're going to crop dust people and then circle back around and go hey how are you going to get past crop dust I'm going to ask the three people in the immediate area, what was your last meal? And then I'm going to deduce from that and the tinge of the smell.
    60:25
    You know what I mean? Again, you're highlighting you are an expert in this because you've got the most experience. But I wonder, you know, what really is, and there are tournament directors at big tournaments of 100 more. Marty, you've been there. Ryan, you've been there. Is there a card for fucking BO? Because my God. I'm looking for sponsors right now and deodorant is the number one thing I'm looking for right now. Just to hand it out. Forget the lanyards and all that shit you get. Forget the coins for having a perfect ground. Here's a fucking stick of Old Spice. Shove it in there. I can't say I've experienced what other people have described. For people to bring it up as much as they do, I can empathize with that. You've never been around a smelly person? I've been around maybe one smelly person but i the way that people describe it and i've said i've heard it a thousand times is that you you can't escape it and the smell is so bad that it makes you want to throw up i don't know do australians have better hygiene than the rest of the world i don't think so i think we're pretty dirty people no no this is marty okay so it's a it's a global issue all right fine fine it's a human issue guys martino it's been a year which means if i calculate right you've seen probably at least two movies in that year what what's the movie that comes to mind that you've seen because i'm always fascinated there was once a time where a show was done where we didn't talk pinball once god was that ever awesome i still get people talking about that and by the way you You have a lot of fans at the EPC. Everyone was asking, and I said, there might be a special little wizard from Hogwarts joining us very soon. What was his name? Professor Gin Gobbler. Professor Martino Gin Gobbler, yeah. Yep, yep. Look, and just so everybody knows, Jeff does always pass on people's nice, kind words, and I do often get people messaging me as well. So thank you, everybody, for checking in. I'm doing well. Yeah, that's awesome. And again, we talked about it earlier, it's not what you want from people, just everyone being happy. I'm glad to hear you're doing well. Marty and I talk all the time. I think this is the first time you've seen Ryan in a year, isn't it? You guys normally hate each other. Am I wrong? I'm just thinking of the head-to-head breakup. Is that how it went? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that was really bad. No, no, no. We still chat. We did have our yearly Eurovision catch-up. Oh, for God's sakes. Where was Eurovision this year?
    62:55
    Sweet. I remember the Liverpool, but that was a few years ago. When Frankie Goes to Hollywood came out. Who won? Denmark? No. Oh, God, I can't even remember the country. Austria. I thought visually it was fantastic. I just didn't like the song. Well, I liked the song, though. I did. I wish that was a big thing here. I mean, it can be a big thing. You just got to find people that are passionate about it. I have like a yearly gathering. I think I've watched it like every year of my life. My parents kind of forced me to do it. And then I kind of carried the tradition on with my kids. And then this year I had, I brought some extra people in. and they'd never watched Eurovision before, and they were hooked. They were like, show me previous years, and show me this thing, and there's controversy, and it's fun. It's good, trashy fun. There are some amazing songs. There's some definite earworms, like Expresso Macchiato. So in North America, American Idol kind of was a thing. The Voice was kind of a thing. I couldn't name any of the winners in the last 10 years. It's just been oversaturated and garbage. Are the Eurovision winners actually successful, or are they just good in their own country? Have you... Wait, sorry, Marty. I know you're probably going to jump in, but have you heard of a... They're not very well known, but have you heard of a band called ABBA, Jeff? Yeah, I know they were... That's 50 years ago. Ah, okay. Merneskin. 50. Recently. Oh, no. They won Eurovision? Yeah, that was their big break. Oh, they're great. Duncan Lawrence from that song Arcade, one of the most popular songs on TikTok. My kid even knows it, Jeff. Who else, Marty? Look, generally, you've got to understand, it's Eurovision, so it's Europe. So even if they are successful, it's usually in their own country. So we don't really get to see it post-show whether they are successful. And I think recently, has there been anybody that's become a global megastar? Well, you had ABBA. Celine Dion. She was a previous winner as well. No, she wasn't. Celine? Look it up. Celine is from Canada. French-Canadian. There's no fucking way. I actually have this feeling that she may have done it twice. No, she's been on Eurovision. Anyway, you'll have a look. She didn't win it.
    65:02
    No. You're really stretching my knowledge now. I'm typing it in right now. This is bullshit. Look it up. Oh, my God. Look it up. She represented Switzerland. Celine, how dare you? You're Canadian. Don't. Will my heart go on? She's global, man. Speaking of that, being in Paris, because the Olympics were just there last year, and Celine gave that fucking triumphant performance on the Eiffel Tower. Lady Gaga was great. But the band I remember the most from that opening was, and I hope I'm not fucking up their name, Gojira. The heavy metal band that did that Mary Antoinette thing where they had all that. And they did the death metal from, we were on the river cruise on the Rhine there and we saw the building and I'm like, I remember that building. But that was cool. But I can't believe I didn't know Celine won in 1988 for Switzerland.
    65:52
    There you go. It's our facts. You don't even need to be, from the country, Jeff, just to represent. I think it's the songwriters need to be from the country. You don't even need to be in Europe. She was 20 years old. It's not something that the people in my little Eurovision circle, we don't talk about it all year long. It's like there's a small season where it's like the Eurovision season, you get really excited about it and then it goes and you forget about it and it comes back again the next year. Yeah, it's literally a three-week thing, done and done. Yeah. Anyway, good fun. We'll send you some songs, Jeff. We'll send him the rap, Marty. I'll send you my full rating of all the acts, split by song, visuals, and overall performance. Marty's Excel spreadsheet. Here it comes. Here we go. We had some emails. And again, it's finalroundpinball at gmail.com. We have a new website, thanks to Ryan and AI.
    66:51
    Finalroundpinball.com. Robert G wrote what a delight to see a final round episode show up in the podcast welcome back guys it can't be expected that an Aussie and a Canadian would know this strange 90's US television phenomenon but Rescue 911 is indeed a licensed theme I guess we talked about it last episode it was early, very popular well known here in the states example of television document drama utilizing recreations blah blah blah blah it was hosted by Kirk oh wow, William Shatner Thanks for sharing your shockingly clairvoyant prognostications. Hear that, Marty, on the last episode that we recorded on January 17th? Please don't wait five months for the next one. We didn't. Appreciate it. Keep it up. Listener number six. Thanks, Rob. Marty, we had Jeff Rivera write to us. He's a great guy. Nice to hear you baby dropping bastards back on the mics. Ryan, I had nice things to say, but Abu Dhabi do has me thinking my entire parasocial friendship with you at this point.
    68:00
    Amazing predictions. Totally blew my mind. Geniuses. Thanks, Jeff. We got an email from Carlos. Oh, my God. He's got some stats. Fuck, Marty. You'd love this. Carlos writes, hey, how's it going? Hope all is well. Here's some information that might interest you. Your podcast final round has good performance in Apple Podcasts rankings in the last 30 days. Give me a break. Position 22 in games in Australia. Position 28 in games in Canada. 155 in the Netherlands. 159 in leisure in Australia.
    68:36
    I think this is an automated email, Jeff, but this was like a day after we released the podcast. So I'm interested to see the next update of this automated email to see where we rank in different countries. It'd be funny if we were the top, close to the top. Oh, it's not a fan. It's just a fucking automated email. No, look at the email address, Jeff. Jeff, you're a prime candidate to send money to Nigeria. Just so you know, I did, at the height of head-to-head fame, look us up and we were top five in gaming in australia why didn't you tell me that money i never would have i never would have given it up um i got a message here from uh from tony hopefully i can read it i was listening to your podcast your latest podcast with jeff the other day michael which is his brother walks past and says is this guy gay or a jockey i said that's ryan from melbourne who came uh came over to check out our pinball machine a couple of months ago he said ah yeah tell him i said that so thanks for that feedback tony and yes i am a jockey just to confirm from everyone it is binary if that was a choice between the two i'm some would say i'm a gay jockey you can do both yeah correct we had one more email that just came in and i was with this guy on the weekend i was at the rochester pinball collective in East Rochester, New York, blah, blah, blah, wherever the fuck it is.
    70:04
    349 West Commercial Street. There, I got that. Hold on, unit 2965. Bathroom code, Jeff? The bathroom code is 3492, and don't use the first one because there may have been a mess. A brown card. Anyway, here we go.
    70:22
    Speaking of which, that's what this email is about. Robert Frost sent this email. I'm not even joking. He goes, for anyone interested on an update on Jeff's zipper habits, I was in the restroom with him at Stomp, and I can confirm he still remembers to zip his pants. So Robert is basically saying he was zoned in on my pecker in the bathroom, and that's why I don't use journals. I just don't want paparazzi.
    70:50
    Anyway, there you go. With the zoom lens. We did it. You don't want paparazzi, Jeff, but you called me live from Stomp yesterday, and you showed me everyone's little pecker.
    71:03
    It happens. There's an old joke for that. It's an inside joke. Ask us offline. We'll tell you. Anyway. Hey, Ryan, where can people reach us? All of our links are at finalroundpinball.com. You can find our links to Facebook, Instagram. You can email us at finalroundpinball at gmail.com. And don't forget that if you're listening to this to subscribe on Spotify. I don't think the YouTube music thing is going to happen. There are way too many copyright infringements.
    71:32
    Listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or just plug the feed into any podcatcher that allows you to put an RSS feed into. Yeah, let us help get Carlos and our stats up on gaming and leisure in these important countries. All right. This is very, very important to us. We care nothing else about that. Martino, it's great to hear from you my friend It's been a pleasure to come back this once every two years Two weeks, we do it again Join Ryan, join Martino and his magic wand Thank you for having me back and as I said to you, I was kind of expecting that you would ask me to come back on the Harry Potter episode and I don't know whether I added anything to the conversation but I was just pleased to be a part of it Add something, Marty. What are the names of the two wizard wands that are in the Harry Potter Pimoching? Or are they just generic wands? No, apparently they are. The Golden Trio, obviously, being Ron, Hermione and Harry, I believe... I have to look closer. I saw two wands, but apparently they are accurate to two of the three, I guess. I have a question about the Golden Trio, because I heard that term and I've never heard it before. Where are the Golden Trio?
    72:48
    It's the name of the episode, Jeff. Oh, done. We figured it out. The Golden Trio, did that exist in the book or the movies, or did people just refer to them now as the Golden Trio because it's like those three people, the main characters? I actually don't know the answer to that. I feel that it's probably something that was after because I can't remember them being called that throughout the books or the movies, but maybe. Maybe I missed it. In Paris, the Golden Trio is when you piss on Eiffel Tower, the Louvre and Notre Dame.
    73:20
    It's when you piss on a baby that's been thrown at you in front of the Yaffle Tower. Alright. Later, guys. Bye. Bye, everyone. Final Round Pinball at gmail.com. Send your comments. Thanks. It's the final round.
    73:42
    The final round. Did you have lice, by the way? I meant to ask you with that haircut. Did you get gum cut in your hair? Is there an Oscar Isaac lookalike contest I don't know about?
    74:09
    Shut the fuck up, Jeff.