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Ep 81: Leading Up to TPF

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 5m·analyzed·Mar 20, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Pre-TPF episode covering Deep Root Pinball audit details and festival expectations.

Summary

Josh Roop and Matt Scott Larson discuss their anticipation for Texas Pinball Festival (TPF), including expectations for seeing rare machines, seminars with industry figures like Steve Ritchie and Jack Rennery, and excitement for the Weird Al Multimorphic machine's debut. They dedicate significant time to analyzing the Deep Root Pinball fraud collapse, reviewing auction photos of the facility and incomplete machines, and discussing Robert Dave Mueller's ongoing legal proceedings involving the SEC, U.S. attorneys, and multiple civil suits.

Key Claims

  • Deep Root Pinball facility auction shows very little evidence of actual manufacturing capabilities or mass production intent

    high confidence · Josh and Matt analyze Mel Davis Auctions photos showing mostly office equipment, incomplete machines, and workbenches with no organized production workflow

  • Robert Dave Mueller asked the court for an allowance of $4,000-$7,000+ per week while his assets were frozen

    medium confidence · Josh references this from a prior court hearing but admits uncertainty about exact amount: 'Maybe it was 4,000? I can't remember. It was a ridiculous amount of money.'

  • SEC, U.S. attorneys, and multiple civil suits are all pursuing Robert Dave Mueller simultaneously

    high confidence · Based on a recent judge hearing a couple days before the episode, discussed via Blueberry Jeff Johnson's Pinside documentation

  • Multimorphic P3 with Weird Al theme represents a major new audience injection into pinball, particularly from Weird Al fans

    high confidence · Josh: 'There are Weird Al fans who are just like, wait, there's an American Pinball machine? And then the next question is, wait, they still make pinball?'

  • Texas Pinball Festival is known as the show where collectors display pristine, rare machines and gloat about their collections

    medium confidence · Matt: 'I've always been told that Texas is like the people that want to gloat about their machines show. And so we get some pretty rare pieces down there that are in pristine condition.'

  • Weird Al machine gameplay integrates songs into modes rather than being purely music-focused

    high confidence · Matt references Colin MacAlpine's Final Round interview describing integrated modes like 'Harvey, the wonder hamster' with mechanical pop-ups and 'Operation' style penalty shots

  • Designer talent from Deep Root Pinball (Steven Bowden, Dennis Nordman) was picked up by other manufacturers

    high confidence · Josh: 'some of the people like Steven Bowden and Dennis Nordman and some of those that got picked up by other companies and they've made the best out of a really bad situation'

Notable Quotes

  • “It looks like someone who's spending a lot of money to appear to be a company. But none of it actually looks like it's actually done anything.”

    Matt Scott Larson @ Deep Root facility analysis section — Summarizes the core finding that Deep Root was a facade without actual manufacturing intent

  • “There's nothing here that says you had any mass production capabilities whatsoever.”

    Matt Scott Larson @ Deep Root facility analysis — Emphasizes absence of real production infrastructure despite appearance

  • “Some people just want to see the world burn.”

    Josh Roop @ Deep Root fraud discussion — References Dark Knight/Alfred quote to explain Robert Dave Mueller's apparent narcissism and chaos

  • “Con artists are experts at shell games. And so that's exactly what's going on.”

    Matt Scott Larson @ Deep Root discussion — Directly frames Mueller's operating method as sophisticated fraud pattern

  • “Incomplete machine. Incomplete pinball. That should be the new rebranding of Deep Root Pinball.”

    Josh Roop @ Auction lot analysis — Dark humor about pervasive incompleteness; notes misspelling of 'pinball' in auction descriptions

  • “This feels like the Comic-Con equivalent of pinball, where it's not just a show... It's not a trade show. This is an event show.”

    Matt Scott Larson @ Texas Pinball Festival discussion — Characterizes TPF as entertainment/community gathering rather than strictly commercial trade show

  • “There are Weird Al fans who are just like, wait, there's an American Pinball machine? And then the next question is, wait, they still make pinball?”

    Josh Roop @ Weird Al machine discussion — Highlights unexpected crossover audience the Weird Al license is bringing to pinball

  • “He's a lawyer, and he's going to draw this out as long as he possibly can because he never wants any accountability for this.”

Entities

Josh RooppersonMatt Scott LarsonpersonRobert Dave MuellerpersonZach SharpepersonNicolepersonDeep Root PinballcompanyFlippin' Out PinballcompanyTexas Pinball FestivaleventStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival March 25-27, 2023 in Frisco, Texas confirmed with detailed seminar schedule; first major arrival show for Multimorphic P3; Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Stern expected to be present

    high · Direct event confirmation with dates, location, and participating manufacturers discussed throughout second half of episode

  • ?

    machine_intel: Weird Al Multimorphic/American Pinball machine generating significant crossover audience interest; Colin MacAlpine interview on Final Round podcast indicates integrated gameplay with song modes rather than pure music focus

    high · Josh: 'There are Weird Al fans who are just like, wait, there's an American Pinball machine?' and detailed discussion of Colin's design philosophy from interview

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root Pinball Robert Dave Mueller case progressing with multiple overlapping prosecutions: SEC, U.S. attorneys, and private civil suits all pursuing simultaneously; recent judge hearing within days of episode; Mueller reportedly has frozen assets and requested weekly allowance

    high · Judge hearing 'a couple days ago'; Blueberry Jeff Johnson documenting on Pinside; SEC/DOJ/civil suits all mentioned as active

  • ?

    product_concern: Deep Root Pinball facility auction reveals lack of manufacturing infrastructure: mostly office equipment, incomplete machines, general junk across 180+ auction lots before meaningful pinball equipment appears

    high · Detailed lot-by-lot analysis showing minimal pinball content; 'It looks like someone who's spending a lot of money to appear to be a company' (Matt); misspelling of 'pinball' in auction descriptions

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.198

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 81 i'm josh roop with me my co-host as always scott larson and scott you know what i can't wait i know zach's probably being driven up the walls from me because i'm messaging him once a week now that sweet sweet Godzilla premiums coming from flipping out whoa I I know you you're like oh it's just like Christmas I show up from work and it's sitting in my driveway but with me I'm like I gotta know because I don't want it sitting in my driveway okay it's not sitting in my driveway usually actually my wife does does jokes she's like the only time I know that we're getting something is when I when I get a text from you is like hey you're gonna be home today because she has to sign for it then technically i i had to i had to beg my neighbor because uh one time because my wife was gone and so i actually called my neighbor i'm like uh can you go over so my my little sweet 75 year old neighbor uh walked over and signed for for my game but i'm excited i the only part that stinks is like i want to know just because we're leaving for texas next week right like we're coming up on it's getting that time so i just don't want to be like as soon As we leave for Texas, I wake up Friday morning and FedEx is like, by the way, we're stopping by your house.
1:23
And I actually, I ordered a Rush banner. I don't have too much wall space for decoration, but I had to get the Rush banner. So the Rush banner is on its way, and I sent off the payment. And I also got some Iron Maiden art blades. They were delivered recently. So now I have a few mods to install. But again, that's flipping out pinball. If you want all your pinball needs, go ahead and contact Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out Pinball. They are always good to work with. And if you want to get on their list, because right now supplies are limited. So if you have that thing on your wish list, please let them know and they will figure out a way to get that to you. And they will give you the royal treatment. I just I honestly have only had to make two warranty claims ever with New Inbox. And I've bought New Inbox like four years now. And it's just I got the Stern Insider connected, and the light is strobing inside the QR reader. Zach's I got taken care of. He said it should be here shortly. Just make sure I mail it back. Man, he took care of just everything smooth with Zach and very efficient. It'll get it done. Pinball is complicated, and they're not going to be perfect when they come out. So when you buy a machine, it's not actually getting the machine. It's the service associated with the machine that will differentiate where you buy things from. So just like buying a car or buying an air conditioner, right? Yep. So if you want great customer service and great product, give Zach and Nicole Manny a call. Okay, Josh.

Matt Scott Larson @ Deep Root legal discussion — Predicts Mueller will exploit legal system to delay accountability indefinitely

Godzilla
game
Weird Algame
Multimorphiccompany
American Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Blueberry Jeff Johnsonperson
Steven Bowdenperson
Dennis Nordmanperson
Steve Ritchieperson
Jack Renneryperson
Colin MacAlpineperson
Spooky Pinballcompany
James Bishopperson
Mel Davis Auctionscompany
Earth Shakergame
No Feargame

personnel_signal: Deep Root Pinball designers Steven Bowden and Dennis Nordman successfully placed with other manufacturers after company collapse; hosts frame this as 'making best of bad situation'

high · Josh: 'some of the people like Steven Bowden and Dennis Nordman...got picked up by other companies'

  • $

    market_signal: Weird Al machine attracting non-pinball enthusiasts (Weird Al fans) with follow-up question 'wait, they still make pinball?' indicating potential market expansion beyond traditional collector base

    high · Josh: 'There are Weird Al fans who are just like, wait, there's an American Pinball machine?'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Weird Al machine features song-integrated modes (Harvey the wonder hamster popup mechanics, Operation-style penalty shot concept) rather than purely music-driven table according to Colin MacAlpine interview

    high · Matt referencing Colin's Final Round interview: 'it's not more of a music pin than it is, like the songs are actually integrated with the modes'

  • ?

    community_signal: Local pinball community members providing custom 3D-printed mods and aftermarket parts; James Bishop 3D-printed Captain Marvel ramp and custom Penn Stadium mod for Matt without compensation

    high · Matt discusses James Bishop and his buddy Garrett printing Captain Marvel ramp and Penn Stadium-like thing; emphasis on community positivity and inclusivity

  • ?

    collector_signal: Texas Pinball Festival historically known for attracting collectors displaying pristine, rare machines; anticipated to showcase high-end collection pieces

    medium · Matt: 'I've always been told that Texas is like the people that want to gloat about their machines show...we get some pretty rare pieces down there that are in pristine condition'

  • ?

    product_launch: Josh expecting Godzilla Premium Edition delivery from Flippin' Out Pinball before Texas Pinball Festival trip (same week as departure)

    high · Josh: 'that sweet sweet Godzilla Premium Edition coming from Flippin' Out Pinball' and concern about timing with TPF trip

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Robert Dave Mueller's assets frozen by court; allegedly requested weekly allowance of $4,000-$7,000+ during asset freeze; facility being auctioned for asset recovery

    medium · Josh: 'he's asking the judge...You've frozen all my assets. Can I at least have like 7,000 a week? What was it? Maybe it was 4,000? I can't remember. It was a ridiculous amount of money.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Hosts characterize Robert Dave Mueller's approach as classic con artist shell game: cycling through companies with intent to eventually sell for lump sum and move on; facade designed to attract investment before collapse

    high · Matt: 'Con artists are experts at shell games'; discussion of Brewster's Millions analogy and intent to eventually find buyer before inevitable collapse

    • 3:01
    You know what? Let's start off. We've actually done a couple episodes without a guest. And the challenge is that we are leading up to Texas Pinball Festival. And this tends to be a little slower time just because not a lot is coming out. We do want to have a few more. We have a few more guests lined up that are Rush related, but we wanted to give you guys a break a little bit because I know not all of you are fanboy-ish enough on Rush. um but uh we you know all the pinball industry it it seems to be in a sleeper mode and so i agree i don't know josh let's just talk a little bit a lot um we haven't actually given an update on our lives and so maybe uh just do a quick update this isn't of course this isn't uh you know uh this isn't our ted talk this isn't our uh oprah uh sharing our souls come on but yeah but but just a little bit about what's going on and then we have uh um we have more deep root coming at you and then afterwards we're going to talk about what we're hoping for texas so scott the destroyer hasn't talked about deep root in a while it's been a while it's been a while well i'll go first uh last last little bit my life has still been chaos uh i'm glad that texas is next week i'm ready for a break um i'm ready for to get away and chit chat with some friends and eat some sweet barbecue like charles charles sir thank you for sending all the photos of hard eight barbecue because apparently that's where we're gonna go eat and the food looks amazing no it's great we are uh yeah well okay you're jumping to the end that's the texas preview so sorry that is the texas preview uh i don't know if i ever talked about i got an earth shaker uh i'm very happy with it I got it from an old arcade route guy that I've worked with for years. His product usually gets not in the most pristine condition, but it's a really good price. So I always fix them up. And I thought I'd got his last one, and he's offered me one more. So I need to go take a look at it. Oh, what is it? He's really – No Fear. Okay. I've actually told you. I like No Fear. It's not super deep, but I think it's fun. it's it's fun and fast like uh it's a motorcycle field game so so um and especially where prices are at right now with pinball machines he's really good to me he's like i'm not gonna sell it out from underneath you just when you get time you come out take a look at it and i was yeah okay so i bought multiple games from him over the years he's he's been great so that's where i'm at and godzilla's coming in family's doing good soccer started back up i'm an assistant coach for my son's team and uh it's it's just that man family life is insane i don't know yeah i don't know about you people are listening i don't know if you have a big family a small family if it's just you it's you and a spouse but like i i don't know how we do it nowadays like it's just constant 100 running all the time and that's what my life feels like right now i am grateful for the i don't want to say distraction because i don't want to minimize what we do in pinball and what anybody does in pinball. But this is a healthy release that doesn't really have anything to do with my job. It doesn't really have anything to do with anything else that I'm responsible for. So this is a great way to bridge out and to... This is my playtime. Talking pinball is my playtime. I'm playing pinball. I'm doing that kind of stuff.
    6:41
    Want to give a shout out to a local guy, James Bishop, who printed me. I said I was looking for one of those Captain Marvel fixer ramps. And he actually, so, oh, update, I sold Spider-Man. Oh, wow, congrats. Yeah, came out with his buddy, Garrett, and he looked at it, and it's a beautiful machine. All my games tend to be pretty pristine, because otherwise it just, it's not worth it for me. And so he bought it and took it, and I was talking to him a little bit about the Captain Marvel ramp, and he's like, you know, I got a 3D printer. I can print one for you. And so he did. He printed off a Captain Marvel, and he also – he's made his own version of a Penn Stadium-like thing. Yes. And so – I'm getting it tomorrow or Saturday actually. Yeah, so you're getting it too. So and he was showing me what he did. And so I I actually had to run down to St. George to work over the weekend and had some family obligations. And so I've been so busy all week. I haven't been able to install it and try it out. But it's been it's a lot of fun. I love I love how I'm not naive. There are toxic people in the pinball community, but for the most part, the people that I gravitate toward are the people who are generally positive and really want to be welcome and inclusive.
    8:05
    And so that's my update. But, yeah, I stopped off, so I have that Captain Marvel fix, which I'm really excited. My Captain Marvel ramp is actually pretty good, except occasionally, man, you shoot that shot, and it just ricochets and goes straight down the middle. It comes screaming at you fast. so i don't know it's uh i i still love avengers every time i think you know i could sell it which elwynn would i sell and i'm like oh maybe i'll sell avengers i'm like no i can't i i like it too much oh guess what i like all of them so yeah i don't think any of them are getting sold anytime soon you always look at your collection like if i have to get rid of one which one is it which one's on the chopping block i'm looking at my collection right now i'm like probably earth shaker but the problem is is my kids are loving earth shaker like it's right it's so simplistic and then the whole shaking of the machine that's actually integrated with the theme versus like you're playing star trek and all of a sudden the shaker motor is shaking because you hit a shot you know what i'm saying right yeah it's it well it's like having the shaker motor in jurassic park when when you start t-rex multiball it makes sense right yeah but sometimes it doesn't that's why i was saying like star trek you get a shot it's like six i hit a shot and they're out in space doesn't mean you should be shaking it so yeah it's a it's a machine vibrator yeah so it's just kind of fun so yeah no it's good and uh i it's still we've had a lot of just small things just family obligations that have stacked up and i'm hoping that we are coming out of that so and you know nothing nothing terrible just just a lot of small things that are stacking up that just take a lot of time away from pinball and even just away from any other thing. I have a ski pass this year, but because I've been so busy with everything else, I've only gone twice. Yeah. So it's been more challenging, but, you know, it's okay. Life's good. We are really looking forward to Texas. But first, before we talk about Texas, let's talk about our favorite deep hole in Texas. which is deep root um okay so josh it's been a while since we talked about uh our favorite punching bag let's uh robert mueller so what has what what has come up with deep root and i it just it still just boggles my mind so i want to make a disclaimer here before we get into this when we talk about deep root we're mainly talking just about robert mueller yeah there's a lot of people that like it sucks that they got towed under and like they got taken advantage of and a lot of the times like we're just glad that some of the people like steve bowden and dennis norman and some of those that got picked up by other companies and they've made the best out of a really bad situation so and there's a lot of victims by the way and yes i i do lay it solely on robert muller i mean just which is crazy but well okay that that's where con artists work right yeah i mean con artists are experts at shell games and so that's exactly what's going on so now okay so i'll give you the i'll give you the update so this last couple weeks has been kind of getting all the nitty-gritty out of the way the judge has been just a couple days ago So if you want to follow along, go on the Pitside thread. Blueberry Johnson, man, I don't know.
    11:33
    If you love the man, if you hate him, if you just love a train wreck, you have been on top of all the information. We really should have this dude on at some point in time. Man, he is like the Robert Mueller expert, absolutely. And so he kind of went over exactly what was said with the judge. It sounds like they were trying to say that they should kind of save the taxpayer dollars and just kind of call it quits. And it sounds like the U.S. attorneys want to get a piece of Mueller. SEC wants a piece of Mueller. There's other people suing that want a piece of Mueller. So it sounds like this whole shenanigans isn't going away anytime soon. And it sounds like Robert Mueller needs to strap in for the roller coaster ride he's about to go through with all of it. In the meantime – You know the floating dumpster? It's a meme, right? The floating dumpster that's on fire. Yes. Like it, that, that doesn't even begin to describe the train wreck. This is more like a supernova that is just destroying everything in its wake. Because there's, there's no one who wins in this. No. There's no one who wins in this. I mean, there's no way to put logic to any of it either. Cause like, I think like, what was the logic to all this? Like you were swindling people out of insurance and life policies. Yeah. And then you just happen to start a pinball company. Was it to stroke your ego or like it just it makes no sense. But then again, I think of the Dark Knight and Alfred in his wise words of some people just want to see the planet burn, the world burn. I see. I don't think that I think it's a it's a con artist is a con artist. and they will try to – it's a time game. Like they know eventually they will get caught. It's catch me if you can. They know eventually they're going to get caught, but they're going to see how far they can push it. And so that's why when he's taking all this money and he starts another company, there is this remote, remote pipe dream that he starts this idea and then someone comes in and buys it for a bunch of money And then he's he he moves on. Yeah. But the fact that he wasn't even paying the policies on all these people, he stole the money from. I think that is that would be the most optimistic way you could look at this guy. Yeah. That he's actually that he was actually had any intention on making good for this because I don't think so. I think it was just a shell game. he uh he's a delusional narcissist who that's all it doesn't matter what chaos he's inflicted on anybody else it still only comes back to him personally like how how it affects him because this is brewster's millions if you're if you're my age and you saw the movie and it's actually a remake of an older movie where you have to spend all this money you have to be trying to spend this money yeah to to to be burning through this much but well and what's gutsy is like he's asking the judge and this wasn't the last meeting it was like one of the court hearings before that but he's asking for like an allowance like yeah you've frozen all my assets can i at least have like 7 000 a week what was it maybe it was 4 000 i can't remember it was a ridiculous amount of money okay it was more it was way more than i spend i'll put it that way yeah yeah so so let's I would just say a pro stern a week is what he wanted. So let's turn our attention back to they've cracked open the Deep Root facilities. They're starting to auction off. You saw the pictures, Josh. What was your initial feel when you look at this? I really felt like it was a bare-bones startup company because there was stuff. Like what percentage of this showed that it was a pinball company? Well, when the first photos came out, nothing. when we first got those first photos it was like here's the cafeteria and here's with a black hole just in the middle of the cafeteria right yeah which is which is a pretty fitting pinball machine metaphor for that company and a raza that was parked in front of the uh the restroom i mean it really we saw some cnc machines and even like spooky said this would be overkill because like maybe spooky will buy it like no this is too much for what we even need right now and it just man it just looking in that place it looked like a facade yeah it looked brand it looks like it just came out of the plastic and it hasn't been it looks like a facade it looks like someone who's spending a lot of money to appear to be a company but none of it actually looks like it's it's actually done anything i it there there's very little here that differentiates from a pinball company. Well, and that's the part that sucks. But you look at the other pictures that have come out now that we seeing the Luchador playfield that we started seeing because they were talking about how of these play fields are just slapped in random cabinets So it actually not like food trucks and food trucks cabinet and yada yada yada Yeah. We're seeing these play fields, which whoever's taking these pictures, I know that you're taking them so you can auction off stuff. Please use a different camera than like a Sony Handycam from like 2005. Yeah. Or your iPhone 3G. We have the technology. But there's a lot of that's the thing. There might have been a facade, but looking at what the designers had been doing and the concepts they've been coming up with, there was some really cool ideas here. And so it just seemed like the plane had never taken off the ground. Like they were checking the systems. They were, you know, the lights were green to go. It just we weren't manufacturing yet. And may that was never the game plan. I don't know. It was never the game plan, Josh. There's nothing here that says you had any mass production capabilities whatsoever. They had all those workbenches in the CNC machines. Okay, fine. But, okay, I'm looking here. So just in case you're looking for auctions and you want to see what's going on, there's Mel Davis Auctions. It's just auction guy, just Mel Davis Auctions 232, Deep Root, San Antonio. Okay? I'm going through there. Now, ironically, we're going to talk about a few things that are missing now because we saw some pictures when it was first released.
    17:52
    And you are going all the way to number 58, lot 58, before you even see pinball stuff. Yeah. Okay. Everything else is general office stuff. The next one is – Because who doesn't want a big box of Deep Root water bottles? Oh, the water bottles are fantastic. By the way, if anyone wants to buy those water bottles and give them to me, I will definitely make the most of those water bottles. And if there's anything on here that I want, it's those water bottles. Okay, lot 84. Again, incomplete pinball machine. Then you have 86. By the way, incomplete pinball machine, retro-detective zombie, whatever, Adventureland.
    18:36
    Incomplete pinball machine should be the new rebranding of Deep Root. Incomplete machine. incomplete pinball oh actually do you know what's the best um on a lot 86 incomplete pinball machine they even misspelled pinball nice so and honestly let's let's take a look from the auctioning company at this point like they probably see a lot of things they don't care but they probably don't see a lot of things they probably see a lot of things there's like yeah this is what it is but like how much of the stuff they look at and like is this even a word they have more elliptical and exercise stuff then they have pinball stuff yeah well you wanted a healthy environment man about five okay i'm five maybe like okay i'm already to lot 180 and i've seen about five pinball related things i mean that could legitimately be out of somebody's um like backroom hobby thing my real question is because starting to look at these designs and whatnot you could easily take a snapshot of these and obviously the community has yeah and do we start seeing some of these pop up over at american because i i don't i don't know i mean okay you look at any pinball it doesn't take much to throw a um like something on a pinball uh like a a geometric layout right yeah like you can put you can you can design a pinball machine but they were gaining more and employees from deep root like they were it felt like they were starting to take on some of they were kind of cherry picking some of the stuff through through deep root already yeah and that's the only reason i ask i'm like do some of these designs i don't know i don't know exactly how it all works and where there's so much red tape i doubt that like robert muller even has time if they did use a design if you're having time to like sue american for copyright if there's even is such a thing for a company that doesn't exist i don't know it's just the whole thing is just wacky but the funny part was is like you had found like a picture of jesus like a good size picture of jesus yeah it's no longer there but they had they had art from there and i i thought even jesus finds this ironic that a total scam artist has a picture of him that they're trying to sell in their recouping their price do you think he consulted jesus like on the wall and it's like what do you think is fire and brimstone like i don't know i don't know it's uh it is one of the modes how to swindle uh 71 million out of your church congregation maybe yeah um apparently the 10 commandments would be missing a commandment because yeah it's uh yeah it's just kind of painful okay i'm seriously i keep searching through all the stuff on here and there is very little that differentiates this from any other company and it really is just general general office junk yeah that is just unbelievable if you want to go check it out it's like page what would we say it was like 582 on the deep root thread just just search yeah yeah on forums you can read through if you're looking for you can actually see a picture of the the paintings because there was it was actually in um like post number 29 176 so yeah it's uh it just shows like that and some of these are gone like the the trifold japanese art thing is gone i don't see any of the paintings are there and it's oh are the bids done with them you know what i think the bids are done that's what it happened you didn't win the the jesus painting oh man like make someone else want it there we jokingly said that people are going to start crowdfunding to send you deep root crap because oh geez yes our wonderful october was at 2019 that's yeah that's how long ago it was wow dennis and zach on yeah oh maybe it was october yeah it had to be 2019 because It wasn't 2020 yet, that's for sure. Yeah, so apparently we did miss out on the inappropriately religious art in a con artist's shop. You've got to keep up facades. Yeah. So anyway, if you're really interested, it's just, again, nobody's going to win in this. Like, literally no one's going to win. Everybody who gave money to this will probably get 10 cents on the dollar, if that. There's no way. he's blown through this money just like con artists do. And, uh, but if you want to get a forklift right now, the current bid is 5,000 bucks. Yeah. That's, that's a steal for a forklift. It really is. It should be. Yeah. Probably for one that's brand spanking new. Yeah. Well, obviously it's never been used. They've never made anything. So, so anyway, so enough about deep root. The guys, the guys, uh, yeah, sorry, he's going to burn in hell, whatever. So, So that's the wizard mode on Fire and Brimstone. Yes. Bobby Mueller burning in hell for stealing all the money from people and promising – and all the carnage for all the lives that he affected by hiring them and just having them stuck on a terrible company. So – Ugh. Okay. All right. So now – but there is something that is going to happen though. We have – oh, do you have any other final deep thoughts on Deep Root? Deep thoughts on Deep Root. You know, I don't know. It just sucks. It's one of these things that's just going to be – it's going to go on for years because it's just going to get drawn out. He's a lawyer, and he's going to draw this out as long as he possibly can because he never wants any accountability for this. And I guarantee he'll figure out a way to spin this, that he was somehow the victim in this. so uh in uh what the 25th of march of this year we are going to have fun yeah we have the texas pinball festival from march 25th 27th in frisco texas yes okay this is this is my first time coming and this is this is your first time coming right yeah i was supposed to be there uh march 2020, but we all know the story to that. Yeah, we were supposed to go two years ago. As far as I still have my tickets for them. Do you? Yeah, they just said we'll just postpone it until we open back up. I really just had my flight in the hotel. Yep. We are definitely looking forward to it. Josh and I don't really have... We are going to be there to experience the festival. Yeah, I think the only thing we have planned is we are helping with the Twippies on Saturday night. Yeah. But that's pretty much it. So what are you looking forward to most?
    25:39
    Probably Weird Al. After listening to the Colin McAlpine interview on Fond of Round. Wonderful job, guys. Jeff, Martin, and Colin, y'all did great. I'm excited to see more of this. I like the concepts that he was talking about. And, yeah, I'm excited to see Weird Al. Yeah. I'm excited to – I've always been told that Texas is, like, the people that want to gloat about their machines show. And so we get some pretty rare pieces down there that are in pristine condition. I'm excited to see what comes of the show. This feels like the Comic-Con equivalent of pinball, where it's not just a show to, it's not a trade show. This is an event show. So this is for all the people who don't really care as much about the nuts and bolts on it. They just want to come and have a great time and they have a packed in. So I'm super looking forward to the schedule because it really is over two and a half days. Yeah. And it's Friday night is a little bit, but that's more of people just getting in, in town, little events going on. And then Saturday and Sunday. I mean, that is huge. I hear this is like you were saying, this is one of the best shows in the nation, possibly even the world. We've got people that travel from all over the world that come to this show. And I'm ready. I'm ready to have my socks blown off. Okay. Are there any seminars that you're looking forward to? Who are you looking forward to hear from at this show?
    27:12
    I don't know. Honestly, I don't even know if I've looked at the seminars. I know Jersey Jack's doing something. Jack Rennery's going to be there talking. Well, Jack and Steve Ritchie are going to be there. That's going to be interesting. That's going to be quite – So I'm definitely going to come. And you know Steve Ritchie. He doesn't hold back any punches. So we might get a little more than we bargained for going to that seminar. Yeah, there may be some flamethrowers going on there. We also have Todd Tuckey. He's doing his thing.
    27:39
    Friday, 9 p.m. to 10 p.m. Wow, geez. Other things, American Pinball is going to be there. Multimorphic, so that's – and that really is going to be – this is the We've Arrived show for Multimorphic. because I bet that more people have been brought into pinball independently from just this license than anything they've done before. Right? I agree. There are weird Al fans who are just like, wait, there's a pinball machine? And then the next question is, wait, they still make pinball? Well, and honestly, looking at this thing, there are some really cool concepts that Multimorphic has come up with. And I really think this is the needle of adrenaline that's been shot into their skin for their cells and whatnot. And I don't know if you got any of the messages. We're not saying that, like, P3 is – I don't know. Someone had said, like, our last episode we talked about, like, longevity of P3 and yada, yada, yada.
    28:42
    And I'm like, I don't think we were saying that it was, like, we didn't think that the system could go the distance. It was just, you know, we were concerned for the company as a whole. Well, I think you're always concerned about anything that is – that's a little more computer-based because when you're talking about swapping in and out things, you do think about cartridge-based systems, right? And you think about – this feels a lot more like a video game than any other option in pinball. I mean if you were to compare, but I still feel like it feels like pinball. Like when we played Heist at Expo and Sorcerer, it felt really good.
    29:24
    I don't want people to misunderstand. It is a pinball machine. I'm just talking about the release cycle.
    29:34
    You think about that. Because you're going to have new options coming out, and you have to maintain the – you have to keep updating the system as new technology comes along. That's true. So that's really what I'm getting at is that you have – so that's a little more challenging. But, hey, that's not for us to figure out, right? That's for them to figure out. Yeah. And so I'm excited. I'm excited overall for Weird Al. Like I said, the song selection really doesn't bother me. Like I said, I would have picked some different songs, but because I grew up in a different era of Weird Al. Yeah. Um, but after listening to Colin's comments and how it's not more of a music pin than it is, like the, the songs are actually integrated with the modes. Like you're actually playing Harvey, the wonder hamster and his head, little pop-ups that come out of the play field is like him popping his head up through the play field and just, just different stuff. Like the, like a surgeon where you, like, you've got to hit shots and you're penalized for hitting the wrong shot. Just like in surgery, like you've got to cut the right spots. And if you don't, you would know nothing about that. Okay. What other games are there that have penalties for shooting a shot? I'm trying to think. I know there are ones that you don't score as much, but are there other things that have like a, oh, if you shoot it here, it's like on Wheel of Fortune spinning the bankruptcy, right? Yeah. It's like you can actually hurt your score by actually shooting a scoop. Yeah. and i don't know if it's that or if it's more like operation like you hit the sides and the whole thing yeah but listening to like i highly recommend it go listen to that interview it's fantastic um i'm just i'm excited for this machine and i'm excited i've always been excited for multimorphic i've just i i don't know i've always wanted to get my hands on one before i say yes and now that i got my hands on one expo i want to see how weird al feels my son's asking me like every day so when we're getting weird out when we get weird out i'm like well i do i gotta play this first yeah i i definitely want to play weird out so i'm really looking forward to that um there's also the tournaments going on yep so there's you know your typical uh wizards turn the texas wizards tournament there's the classic side tournament there's the women's tournament and the kids tournament yep so and those are the prize pots The prize pot is aptly named the Raymond Davison Fund. Yeah, exactly.
    32:10
    Buy Raymond a new machine, please. Yes. He's saving up for his Rush Premium. Exactly. I'm excited to go hang out with the guys. It'll be good to see EGP again, like Tony and Dennis. We hung out with them at Expo. It'll be cool to go see them again. Butch Pill is on the list, our good friend Butch Pill. Yeah. Who else we got on there? I mean, there's a handful of people. Zach's going to be there partying. He's actually not going to have the Flippin' Out booth there. He's just going to be there to have fun. Yeah, he's there to just have fun. So that looks really interesting. Our Triple Drain friends are going to be there.
    32:46
    There are really so many people. Okay, I'm just going off their website. And so let see So Sylvester McCoy is going to be there And he is Nice Dr Who What was that Wasn he Dr Who
    33:05
    Says – Maybe I'm wrong. We plan to have Dr. Who pinball machine. Yeah. I don't know. He looks like the Hobbit here. So I'm assuming he was in the Hobbit. Yeah, he was Dr. Who, coincidentally. He was the seventh Dr. Who. Yeah. So he's going to be – so he's going to be there um i'm todd tucky butch peel joe balser jack danger uh moto uh and i'm just scanning through so you just keep scanning down where is joel balser even at now is he with home pin is that what we've decided he's working on spinal tap um you know he was an american but i heard the announcement but i totally forgot about where he's working now we're wonderful I know you guys tune in for the latest and greatest news. Yeah, sorry. We are not the update in the news on pinball. And really, this week has been super crazy for me. I drove down to southern Utah and worked one shift and then drove back the next day. Yeah. And then my wife had her sinuses cleaned out today. And so I legitimately, I am, I, I'm really looking forward to Texas because it'll give me a break from all the stuff that I've had to be doing. So yeah. Guest list is awesome. I think, doesn't even Ed Van Der Veen have like a TARDIS there that you can go get in or something like that? Ooh, that'd be cool. Yeah. Anywho, it's going to be awesome. I'm excited for TPF. So, so I guess, what else are you looking forward to? By the way, if anybody is looking for us, we actually have a funny shirt that we made. So you can take a look at it. We'll probably be wearing them at least one of those days. We will be also – plug for the Twippies. Let's talk about those. Yes.
    34:52
    We will be announcing – I don't know if we're allowed to say which category. An award. A major award.
    34:58
    And I need to get set down with Scott. We'll probably do it like five minutes before if we want to do like a little speech before if we just want to – Jeff told us we can just say, you know, the nominees are, but you can't. We get in front of a microphone. You got that. Come on. Yeah. So excited for that.
    35:17
    Do you think do we see any changes from pinball industry awards to what's going to be presented? Godzilla sweeps up with me. Possibly Halloween as a backup for art. There's a slight difference. I would say pinball industry awards versus the the Twippies. That is the popular vote. That's the people's choice. Right. And the and the other and the pinball industry is just which and full declaration. We voted in that. And it was just a it was a group that you could apply to and say, hey, we want to. We're we know enough about pinball that we're going to be voting on this. And so that we put in our suggestions. So it's just a different crowd. And Twippy is, hey, if you're a pinball fan, let's come, let's vote, let's do that. It's like the fan voting, which I think is great. And so it may be different, but I think there will be a lot of overlap.
    36:16
    I think so too. I think with the limited number of games that released last year, Godzilla just did so well. It's hard to argue with the results of Godzilla. It really was the complete game of the year. if you're looking at the entire package that i don't know of anybody who plays godzilla who says that wasn't fun uh as far as the entertainment section of the twippies do you think we see anything different i mean zach and greg have still been doing uh straight down the middle so they still have that audience or whatnot they've won it haven't they won it every single year for twippy something like that for podcaster or not no for youtube for youtube um they certainly have uh they they've they've certainly been in the running i would have to go back and see who the other uh winners were i know that jack danger's one streaming every year and that one's gonna be interesting too because he really ramped down last year considering he was working at stern and building pinball machines i don't blame him so he now has another job right and then we have canada that uh his one podcast for four years in a row yeah does that change now that he's put himself behind a paywall um possibly the reason why i say that is because like um you have joe rogan who went behind a paywall you have howard stern who essentially is behind a paywall and it does change um it changes what uh who who has access to it because you're you're going to cut out some of the casual people so unless you want to pay for spotify you're not going to listen to joe rogan unless you want to pay for Sirius XM, you're not going to listen to Howard Stern.
    38:00
    And so there are – we are – we're broadcasting to anyone who wants to listen. But that's just our model. And however Chris wants to do his model is fine too. I mean he's certainly an entertaining guy. So if he's still able to maintain his popularity behind a paywall, then good for him, right? Yeah. Might as well make a couple bucks, right? Yeah. So. I mean, I do it for the glory and for being famous, pinball famous. Yes, pinball famous.
    38:33
    So other than that, like I said, I think we won't see much difference between pinball industry awards and Twippies. And just because the field is so narrowed compared to previous years. Right. And we might even see a repit of that this year if it keeps up. If it's starting to just announce they're not going to do another Cornerstone and they don't put anything out till August. And then JJP has said they're not going to be showing anything at Texas. And that means they still can release something within the year. Yeah. And they may or may not. I mean, really, with Cactus Canyon, we didn't know if they were going to reveal it at Expo. And they kind of revealed it at Expo. Well, they revealed it, but it was starting to ship those now, aren't they? Something like that. So it doesn't feel this feels like a show celebration more than, hey, come and you're going to see some news dropped on you. Yeah. so uh not sure uh we we have travel stuff going on so friday is a little more up in the air saturday and sunday though we we will be there what time you flying out sunday um you're in the afternoon right no i think i'm in the morning i think i'm like sunday morning and o'clock yeah i think i'm like 10 o'clock 11 so i'm gonna be i'm gonna be hanging around uh i think my flight's out at six o'clock at sunday night so gotcha that's what but time I'll be landing in Vernal. I think it's like five or six. Yeah. Cause you have to go through like JFK or something, right? I got to go through Denver. Yeah. Yeah. They fly me all the way up to New York just so I can go back to Vernal. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I wouldn't be surprised. Wouldn't be surprised. I definitely will get my workout though. If for those of you who've never flown through Denver, I got to the pleasure of stopping in Denver's airport. it's massive and i guess the only other ones i've ever been to is like oklahoma and salt lake and new york and stuff like that but usually it's like one big terminal right right like for some reason denver's is like three long terminals like they're just like and you have to take a subway to get from one two and three and and utah's like so vernal's airport is always on like the furthest one. And so you got to like book it from the furthest terminal all the way to get on the subway. So you can get over to like two or three and then get on your airplane. And it's like a 20 minute walk or something like that. Yeah. Just to get to your, to your flights. So. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also, I, who knows, I may buy something though. I'm, I'm looking at the vendors and there, there are some things that are, that are pretty fun. Like they have back alley creations, you know yeah matt from backlight uh he's going to be there uh you're gonna i'm just kind of scanning through so i'm not i'm not trying to highlight anybody specifically but color dmd i actually may pick up uh one of those for simpsons maybe uh kind of update that bring it into the modern age you know what you should do is you should buy a couple trans lights and then buy a lit frame from brad hunter that's true is that going to be there this year he is not he has some other obligations that weekend but right but he does have his website and we actually so i bought i just sold spider-man but i did not sell my spider-man translate because i had a i had steve richie sign it and so um i actually took that out and i put it in a lit frame nice so i i still will have that and that will help out but you know some other things that are fun. JJ Game Exchange is going to be there too. He's doing a party. Local guy doing a party Friday night. You have Marco Specialty is going to be there. Measle Mods. Always a favorite if you want to specialize your game a little bit. Pinball Photos. You want to put some high class art in.
    42:28
    Pinball Pimp. He's the one who does the stenciling stuff on old games, right? Yeah. yeah so if you if you want to make that old game look uh look brand new and he just go and check him out and he he does a good does a good job there you know pin graphics for if you want the art blades pin sign there's so many people that are coming uh super skill shooters uh by the way just in case you're wondering if you if you buy a shooter and i bought it from this guy super nice super nice guy he has a lot of fun shooters uh just make sure you check it in your bag because i almost got my shooter rod confiscated but um yeah the guy has some really cool shooter rods so check that guy out too yeah i think i think overall we're pretty excited and then we'll definitely probably do like a tpf roundup or you know kind of our thoughts and uh surprisingly we like our expo roundup was one of the most listened to episodes we had last year it's up there with keith elwynn so well there was a lot that there was a lot that happened at expo uh okay wait a minute wait a minute did we ever announce though that there's a new king in in our listening numbers keith elwynn keith elwynn is now i'm sorry zach many you did hold the top number there for quite some time so close so close but keith elwynn's still going like his numbers just people must either love godzilla or love keith or maybe it's both i don't know but it's just the numbers keep climbing on that episode oh and by the way happy birthday keith uh yesterday yeah so we're recording on saint patrick's day so happy birthday to him on march 16th yeah and uh my friend who has an le uh godzilla is actually has the same birthday so i sent him a it's his name is brock and he's local so yeah and we also want to thank joel ingleberth and Amanda Hamilton for having Keith on their podcast. So we get a little bit of royalty money from that. Yeah. We time, we timeshare, you know, we lease them for a few episodes a year, but you know,
    44:35
    now Keith, awesome. And those episodes were awesome. If you haven't checked them out, just another pinball podcast with Joel, the does everything in media, uh, Engelberth. That's his new nickname. I know it's a little long, but, if you, if you don't know who Joel is, you can catch him streaming with TPN, or you can hear him from his podcast on just another pinball podcast or his other podcast, Triple Drain, or I could keep going, but you get the idea.
    45:03
    And Amanda Hamilton is awesome. I guess Scott and her are in the same business. Yeah, we're both in medicine, so it's funny. I got a message from her today that Jayco was around. And if you don't know what Jayco is, it's kind of like the medical Gestapo that show up and shake you down for things that really aren't big deals. Like you actually having like a Diet Coke at your workstation. So it's always funny when they show up, everybody just immediately throws all their drinks away and makes sure that it looks all pretty for the Jayco people. So are they similar to like OSHA and construction? Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. Now I will say that, yes, the problem is they fixed all the major stuff. Well, that's good. And so like, so most hospitals, you're not going to find all these major things that are like, wow, that's a huge error. So what they do is it's like ticky tack fouls now. It's like, oh, well, you justification for their job kind of thing. A little bit. Yeah. There was a point where I'm not kidding. They wanted you to swap your masks every time you took it down from your mouth. And then I just found it funny. is like when the pandemic came, they're like, you know what? Those masks, you can use those for like six months. Just go ahead and like sun dry them. They're fine because we're short on supplies. So go ahead and just keep using that sucker. Even I was like, didn't like a month ago, you said we were supposed to swap them out every 30 seconds.
    46:32
    Nice. Amanda's awesome. We met her and her husband at Expo. Yeah, they're fun. Wonderful people. Yeah. So there's good times. So I would say that we're pretty flexible, especially on Saturday. Yes. And so if you're around, please message us. You can certainly message us on Facebook. And we'd definitely love to hear from you. Bunch of people message and reach out about those hats. I did not realize that they would catch on fire like they did. And, Josh, you actually were able to secure some. Yes. They were able to get some. So we're not going to have a lot. I do actually have some shirts. It's Joe Fox. I actually have your shirt that I did not get to you at Expo. So go ahead and reach out to me. But, yeah, so if you want to get a hold of our limited edition hats, go ahead. I thought they were like our go-to now since our old hats. Okay, so these are the new limited edition hats because we don't know how long they'll last until they actually change designs on us. But still lose your kid quality and still lose your kid style. Yes, it's the exact same hat as our old one. It's the same model number and all that jazz. It's just different colors. Different styles. Yep. And a lot of people are loving the green. I did that because I like black and green or charcoal and green. It pops. I think the green's a little like a limited. It feels like a limited, yeah. Yeah, so people are really asking about the green one. Yeah. It's pretty cool. We do need to make a retraction from our last episode. We were not wrong about Pat Lawler only having one two-flipper game, but we were wrong on which game it was. I must have went through Pinside way too quick because I thought it was CSI. IPDB, you mean. IPDB. No, I went through Pinside. Oh, okay. All right. And anywho, I guess it's NASCAR. and to the people who are saying it's three games no it's it's the same layout nascar dellar and hart jr and grand prix are all the exact same layout and the only reason they made grand prix is because nascar is huge in america and the grand prix racers are huge over in europe so that's like literally the only reason you know yeah so it's like trying to argue like nfl has like 28 different versions when it's really just the trans light and and the chip of where you start with your team you know i'm saying yeah and it's all i swear every time those come up for sale it's always the browns i'm not exactly sure i guess i can't exactly say that about grand prix maybe they have changed some of the art i i don't know i've never personally seen one where they're most of the european it's still not going to be a game i'm gonna own i guess i'll put it that way i'll play it on location, but I'm not going to own it. So yes you were correct that CSI was not the two game We were still correct in the fact that Pat Lawler has made one two game It certainly not his go Yes. You know, NASCAR is one of the very first games I ever got to play, and I didn't mind it. I thought it was cool, but you got to understand I started playing pinball early 2010, 2011. so yeah and the real problem is when you don't um when you play pinball for the first time any game seems fun yes and then eventually you're like you know what i that game's okay i'm okay like i i the first time i played flintstones i'm like hey this is fun and then after about five minutes i was like okay i can move on yeah i owned a flintstones for like a month and i was like this is a fun game but i could have something with the giant flippers yeah the oversized one no no i just no yeah oh they had the oversized one too so no it's a fun game but i felt it was kind of easy for what i was playing but again it's what happens is eventually you gravitate toward the ones that you find that you are drawn to so there's any i've had adam's family right but it's not it's not a game that really connects with me because i don't have that nostalgic connection that other people have yep and then you sold it to me and i only had it for maybe six months and i felt the exact same way i was like well yeah it's it's the people who actually that was their go-to game because i guarantee if i pull up like my old nintendo and play contra with my kids they're not gonna care yeah they don't realize that was you and i would sit down like this is awesome yeah up up down down left right left right b a yeah which reminds me we're speaking all these old games what do you think of all these 2.0 kits coming out now we had fun houses rudy's revenge Rudy's Nightmare came out. They just announced one for like Tales of the Arabian Night. And then they announced another one.
    51:14
    Naps Arcade has it. Go check out NapsArcade.org. I'm trying to think which one it was. Now that I announce it, my mind has went blank. Yeah.
    51:24
    Okay, so what do I think about them? I will go out on a limb and say that games now are better than the games in the Bally Williams era. I really think the last five years they have put out more quality games than the Bally Williams era. And so the challenge that we had was we had – that was such a great era in pinball. And I will say that was probably the first golden age of pinball.
    51:56
    And I know that you can go back to EM and solid state and solid. But that was the first time when it really percolated up. But then we went through the doldrums where you didn't really have, I mean, we've talked about it before. There's like four games that I would consider owning in the whole 2000s. And then it starts getting back, getting better, getting back. And you start seeing the first era, like 2010 through 2015, some really good games. Some other games that are not quite so good. But then I think the 2016 through 2020, and it's really taken off. And so those games for my money are better than any of those other Bally Williams games. Yeah. But I also understand if people have that emotional connection with that, but they also want a re like kind of a reimagining, maybe modernizing them a bit. It's the same thing as when you see a 1950s style car that is fixed up. but it's not fixed up to like the original everything OEM. A lot of times they put a better engine in it or, or they put like, you know, they put the Chrome where the Chrome wasn't there before. And so they make it kind of a, a sexier version of the old one. And that's what these kits seem like to me. Yeah.
    53:20
    But I don't know what, what do you feel about it? It's I guess, what's your thought? I like the idea. I just wish that, like, with Funhaus 2.0, I know that some people are complaining, like, it's already a perfect game as is. But the nice part is, like, with these 2.0 kits, like with Bride of Pinbaugh and whatnot, you get the original software plus the new upgraded software. So, I mean, I guess it would be counterintuitive to buy the new software and just not play it. But with all the fancy, fancy stuff. by the way i looked up the other one is whirlwind is the other one they just announced doing a 2.0 okay some of these games do do need a code up like face yes yeah some of them really do i don't know if funhouse did totan tales of arabian nights definitely needs a facelift right but just it's one of those things that i'm kind of the point where i would like to see these games remade versus just a kit coming out for them because i know a lot of people want a funhouse and they're Like you can't get a fun house for under eight grand right now. Yeah. Which I mean, it's kind of doubled in price since I got into the business. And so, you know, before you could probably get it for about thirty five hundred four thousand. I was offered one for like thirty one hundred, but it was like hammered. Well, most of them were hammered back then because they all were on location. Yeah. And that's that's one of the reasons why I gravitate toward the newer ones. I actually find them more fun to play, but I also tend to buy games that are either new or one owner or something like that because I just don't have the time to tinker on them. Well, and I have a hard, hard time. Even back then, I look at Funhaus that was $3,100 beat up, and that was a good price at that point. Or it's like I can get a World Cup soccer for $2,000, which mine I paid less for. I'm not even going to get into that right now. But it's like if you can find funner games for less, like I have a hard time justifying spending money on it. It's like Adam's – well, it's like Adam's Family. If you have that emotional connection with it, then that's a game that you'll want to – that you'll be willing to spend the money on. But if it's a game that you don't have that connection with, then I think you're going to have a connection with Jurassic Park or Deadpool or something like that. Is Adam's Family going for now like $10,000? Yeah, like a nice one. A nice one is going for new in box, yeah. Okay, so would you rather want a nice Adam's Family or a new in box Godzilla Premium? Yeah, and my friend who had an Adam's Family Gold, who sold it for about $8,000, $9,000, it's one of his favorite games. See, and you just sold your Tron, and you sold your Tron for enough money you could buy two for a pro. Yeah. Now, I will say my Tron was very specialized and it went to a very special, special owner who wanted that really high end customized one.
    56:27
    But, yeah, it's the point I'm getting to is like it's hard to justify spending that much money on a game when they're the new games that are coming out are fantastic. And granted, if you have the room and you have the means and the money, do whatever you want. I know you're running into the issue of a room thing. I am out of space, like beyond out of space. And so it's like, it gets to a point where it's like, well, I got to start nitpicking.
    56:55
    Well, you have to find, the reason why people sell games is usually, sometimes it's a money issue, but a lot of times it's a space issue. yeah you know it's it's kind of like i have a sofa and i want that sofa so i need to sell my old sofa you know you don't need 20 sofas exactly but who knows maybe you do maybe yeah maybe you do i guess in a roundabout way of saying it yes i do like the 2.0 kits i think it's for the right market correct i feel like if you're picking the right games i don't know like fun house is a really fun game um i've watched some of the code and i don't know why the hot deck hot dog combat gets stuck in my head but i feel like it's just a rehash of the original mode from the from the very first code and it's just animations been added on and with with with voiceover and so i'm not much of a fan for that like why why are we doing that like if you're going to do new code and so but and code's hard right yeah code is hard there's a reason why the new code i mean you hire someone who knows how to develop code and that's really what takes games to the next level is having a a deep or a deep or a complex slash simple enough set i mean it's something that works really well with tournament type play, because those are the elite players who will dissect the code and find they don't want just one way of doing something. They want multiple ways, but still have it competitively balanced, which is why even games like Iron Man, which isn't deep, but it did have options that you could do different things. Deadpool is the same way. There are different things that you can do in a competitive thing, but the game is not super deep but you can sit you can certainly understand um ways of making it competitively balanced so yes uh if you want to update these old games then yeah you you can but that's that's hard you need someone who knows how to develop a code set i do feel like though these 2.0 kits like they get it put in the machines and then the people don't sell the actual machine itself you You can't find a Briar to Pimbot 2.0 on the marketplace right now. You can't find. So they're obviously doing what they're – the people that are buying them are making them happy with the result. Well, it's hot rodding your car. Like you're buying something and you're putting it in your car with the anticipation that, you know what, this is – it's going to stick around for a while. Yep. Well, I want to wrap up the subject. I want to do one more thing. I want to talk about one more thing just really quickly. And then we're over the hour mark. But have you got Zen Pinball on your phone or on the Switch? So I have, but I haven't played it in a while. But they did come out with something, which I know what you're going for. They just released Indiana Jones, the pinball venture. The Williams one, not the Stern one. Right, the good one. Yeah, the good one. And granted, the one for Stern isn't bad, but it's hard when you compare it to the one for Williams. Yeah, it's still not good. but this is what i love about these i know that people say that virtual pinball is not real pinball yada yada whatever okay um i love it because i can learn the rules and start to understand these games more especially for indiana jones where i don't see those very often especially in the wild i think there's one down in uh um springville utah at the it's hammered it's It's seen better days. It's definitely.
    60:41
    Do you know the main problem with these older games? What's that? Is they don't play like they should. That's true. They're too beat up. And so the flippers are terrible. The flippers can only hit about a fourth of the shots. And people just get kind of frustrated to move on. By playing the virtual version of it, you can actually say, wow, this is how the game was supposed to feel. Yeah. Like new out of the box, this is how it's supposed to feel. And so that alone makes the $15 worth it. Well, I don't know if you can actually say it feels like it should when it first came out. Well, okay, but it plays similar enough. It certainly plays better than the beat-up one at Chuck E. Cheese. Yeah. But it trains your brain, especially if you're looking to play tournaments or even if you just want to have a fun time when you run into one of these in the wild. Like you're in Disneyland and you want to play the Indiana Jones across from the ride. They've never had that every time I've gone. I've asked. I've never seen it. Someone tell me. Someone tell me if they've ever found it because I have looked every time I've gone. I even went to the store. It's in the cafe right across from the – I went to the store and I asked and they didn't have it.
    61:58
    Well, my son and I played it. I want a picture. So I want someone to send me a recent picture because every time I've gone to Disneyland, I've asked and they're like, I don't know. hasn't been here in a long time it's out for repairs oh yeah it was probably about three years ago when my son and i played it anyway long story short i feel like it trains your brain to know where the shots are or to understand these modes so that way when you do get in front of one of these games you can actually enjoy on location yeah i agree yeah that's perfect if you haven't bought 15 bucks i know some people are complaining this isn't the pinball arcade days like you're not going to get four tables for 10 bucks anymore yeah um and even the zen pinball games they're like isn't it like eight to ten bucks if you want to buy out the tables right out or something like that yeah five bucks isn't much of a jump in my opinion and plus let's be realistic like indiana jones the pinball machine's going for fifteen thousand dollars i looked it up on pin side yeah if you want to buy one right now there's one for 15 one for 15 5 and one for 16 000 so something that's literally 0.1 percent of the cost of a real pinball machine I think it's a bargain so you know what it's a movie guys like just take it for what it is yeah 15 bucks is really not that bad so I mean if you get into video games speak I guess whatever but anyhow really good if you haven't checked it out also shout out to Fliptronic because I accidentally I bought it for my phone and then I was watching Fliptronic and I won it for the Switch so I have it on both now whoa there you go so there's that convenience as well nice but well i think that pretty much does it for us you got anything else for us scott no i think that's it seriously if you're going to be at texas and you want to and you want to meet up just let us know we'd love to to meet people so yeah we hear that some kind of hard-hitting into people there so if you do want to meet us specifically just message us on facebook yeah let me do this bill really quick if you want to get a hold of us you can get a hold of us at loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com or at loser kid pinball through facebook instagram twitch and twitter we uh been hitting up all the socials i don't hit it up as much as i usually do i'm having some issues with my phone it's not sending notifications like it should so i wake up in the morning i'm like why did i why am i getting like 12 notifications from yesterday so i do apologize if you send an email and i don't respond for like 24 hours or something it's not me it's my phone yeah facebook messenger actually is pretty reliable right now so go ahead and try that so um but we'll have hats we will uh be happy to meet you um yeah other than that i i don't know what to say okay we'll see you in texas see you in texas
    64:56
    I'm a favorite cook Shut up and sit down Thank you.