Episode 1006: "Kaneda's Reaction to Alice Reveal"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·20m 17s·analyzed·Oct 8, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Kaneda: Alice photos great, reveal video terrible, game will succeed/fail at Expo.

Summary

Kaneda delivers a candid post-reveal analysis of Dutch Pinball's Alice in Wonderland, praising the static artwork and playfield aesthetics while severely criticizing the reveal video for failing to demonstrate actual gameplay. He contextualizes the game as Melvin Louwers' attempt to engineer John Papadiuk's foam-core concept into a functional machine, acknowledges the divisive community response and FOMO-driven sales pressure, and warns that poor marketing has undermined what could have been a successful launch driven by static imagery and collector appeal alone.

Key Claims

The static photos of Alice alone would have sold out the game, but the reveal video undermined sales momentum.
high confidence · Kaneda stated directly: 'the photos alone I think would have sold out this game... the video would not sell you a single unit'
Distributor pre-orders exceeded available inventory, with one distributor (Melissa) having a waitlist over 200 units.
medium confidence · Kaneda reports: 'distributors had lists that were longer than the amount of games that were going to be made... Melissa had a list over 200'
John Papadiuk designed the original foam-core Alice concept as a 'sexy version' of Alice in Wonderland.
high confidence · Kaneda: 'John Papadiuk, like this was his idea, this sexy version of Alice in Wonderland'
Melvin Louwers engineered Papadiuk's non-functional foam-core concept into a playable game from scratch.
high confidence · Kaneda: 'Melvin took that and made what we saw today... He turned something that was nothing into a playable game'
The game lacks substantial toys and mechanical features compared to classic Papadiuk designs (Circus Voltaire, World Cup Soccer, Theater of Magic).
high confidence · Kaneda: 'if you're going to take a J-pop design... it's not loaded with toys, it's going to make people feel like it's still missing the touch by its master'
The reveal video contains only quick cuts, animations, and call-outs but shows almost no actual ball gameplay or playfield flow.
high confidence · Kaneda: 'I don't even feel like I saw a pinball. I don't feel like I saw the game. I never saw the ball go from the flippers up the playfield and do anything'
Pinball games no longer catch fire in sales after week one if they fail to generate immediate momentum.
high confidence · Kaneda: 'if you don't catch fire in week one, you're never catching fire. Like it's not happening anymore'
The game will be on display at Expo, providing the community a chance to play it hands-on and assess its actual gameplay quality.

Notable Quotes

“the photos alone I think would have sold out this game it's like and then the video drops and I'm going to be completely candid on this episode of Canadian Pinball Podcast the video would not sell you a single unit”
Kaneda @ early segment — Core thesis: static imagery was sufficient marketing; the video actively harmed sales momentum.
“I don't even feel like I saw a pinball. I don't feel like I saw the game. I never saw the ball go from the flippers up the playfield and do anything.”
Kaneda @ video critique section — Scathing assessment of reveal video's failure to demonstrate gameplay, the only way consumers can evaluate a pinball machine.
“If that video came out from Stern or Jersey Jack or like CGC or American Pinball, if anyone else dropped that video today as their new game, you know you would absolutely annihilate them.”
Kaneda @ video critique section — Applies harsh industry standard equally; suggests Alice received no special treatment or grace in community evaluation.
“He disguised a lack of actual stuff in the game with artwork Like he layered up plastics and put that Zombietti artwork all over the game like the magic wand hands, and they don't do anything.”
Kaneda @ Magic Girl comparison section — Describes Papadiuk's design technique of visual misdirection; contextualizes Alice's sparse toy set as part of a design lineage.
“Every game now moving forward, you need to design it around one to three magical toys. You need to design it with like a unique layout that people haven't seen before.”
Kaneda @ closing prescriptive section — Prescriptive industry guidance: toys and novel layouts are now expected baseline, not differentiators.
“At the end of the day, the only marketing that matters in pinball is the actual game itself. and it's never a bad day to release a great game and it's never a great day to release a bad game.”
Kaneda @ closing philosophy — Encapsulates Kaneda's core belief: gameplay quality is the ultimate determinant of market success; marketing cannot save a bad game.

Entities

Alice in Wonderlandgame Melvin LouwerspersonJohn Papadiuk Jr.personZombie Eddieperson Dutch Pinballcompany KanedapersonCarrieperson

Signals

?
product_launch: Alice in Wonderland officially revealed with static imagery and promotional video; pre-orders active with distributor waitlists exceeding inventory.
high · Kaneda documents the chronological reveal: photos shown first, then video drops 'in 10 minutes'; distributors report lists over 200 units
~
sentiment_shift: Reveal triggered sharp community division between static-imagery-driven praise and gameplay-skepticism-driven criticism; FOMO vs. caution tug-of-war evident in first 20-30 minutes.
high · Kaneda: 'There was like a combination of extreme criticism and sales happening. It was like this interesting tug of war... Would FOMO win out?'
?
content_signal: Official promotional video criticized as showing animations, call-outs, and character sequences without demonstrating actual ball gameplay or playfield flow.
high · Kaneda: 'I don't even feel like I saw a pinball... I never saw the ball go from the flippers up the playfield and do anything... the video would not sell you a single unit'
$
market_signal: Distributor pre-order lists exceeded available production quantity; Melissa distributor reported 200+ unit waitlist with game 'selling really well' at reveal time.
medium · Kaneda: 'distributors had lists that were longer than the amount of games that were going to be made... Melissa had a list over 200... the game is selling really well'
?
design_philosophy: Alice deliberately designed with upper playfield as primary mechanic rather than multiple toys; Papadiuk design philosophy uses visual art layering to disguise mechanical sparseness.

Topics

Alice in Wonderland game reveal and receptionprimaryReveal video quality and marketing effectivenessprimaryJohn Papadiuk design legacy and influence on modern gamesprimaryToy and mechanical feature expectations in modern pinball gamesprimaryCommunity FOMO dynamics and pre-order momentumprimaryStatic artwork and photography as marketing toolsecondaryArtwork colorization and Zombie Eddie's original designsecondaryKaneda's role as hype media figure and industry criticsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.35)— Kaneda expresses genuine appreciation for Alice's static aesthetics and Melvin's engineering feat, but delivers harsh criticism of the reveal strategy and video execution. He remains cautiously optimistic about the game's potential at Expo but clearly frustrated with the marketing approach. Tone is exhausted but passionate; disappointment is tempered by acknowledgment of community excitement and the game's appeal to niche collectors. The sentiment leans negative due to the video failure but stops short of condemning the game itself.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.061

love hurts, love scars, love wounds, and more Welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I'm like exhausted. It's been like all this like screaming, hyping everybody up. FOMO! We're all getting on the train. The Alice train didn't live up to expectations. You know, I don't really know what we went through today. I'll tell you this. I'm just exhausted by it all because I'm reading stuff from this game is beautiful to this is the ugliest game ever to this game looks great to this game looks terrible. This, that, that. Where are the toys? Where are the mechs? Where's everything? Where's pinball going, Kaneda? Have we once again failed on our mission to hype a game? And I'm just going to say this. I hope each and every one of you knows a very simple fact. I get off and enjoy doing these hype days. I love this stuff. I love getting everybody riled up and super excited to see a new pinball machine. I think nobody does it better than me. Now, after my hype, the game has to deliver. And you know what's so funny about this day? And I told this to Melvin. it's like the photos alone I think would have sold out this game it's like and then the video drops and I'm going to be completely candid on this episode of Canadian Pinball Podcast the video would not sell you a single unit like what was going on with that video we're going to talk about it but let's kind of talk about stuff in chronological order and also let's just try to zoom out for a little bit and understand for a nanosecond who this game is for and why this game exists. So I think you got to go all the way back to this foam core game that nothing was in it. It didn't work. It had no toys, no mechs, no nothing. It had beautiful Zombie Eddie artwork. And yes, the debate rages on whether or not this game is doing justice to Zombie Eddie's art package. You know, his game and that black and white line drawing of his, he has such a masterful way with his black line drawing of Alice in Wonderland that it was a no-win situation to try to take that and make it better. But I've always said this, since I've been seeing this game and seeing the colorization of it, I don't have a problem with it. I think it looks really good. yes, you could probably color it better. No, I'm not an artist. So I don't see the problems that some people do who are more artistically inclined on how to color Alice. She's looking just good to me, people. She's looking just good to me. I don't know if we need to get the values better on her blue dress. So John Papadiuk, like this was his idea, this sexy version of Alice in Wonderland. And this game is taking that foam core and making it a working game. Now, you could stop right there. And I think a lot of people might and say, why would you even do that? Like, why is there a never ending obsession with John Papadiuk and the ideas that came out of that Zidware factory? So for some people out there, they might just be like, look, hard stop right there. Nothing should ever come from that moment and that institution and that individual in pinball. Now, we know if you've been following this hobby, there is a flip side to this whole thing because there are people that absolutely love John Papadiuk and the mind of John Papadiuk Jr. And what he brings to pinball is this zany, mad scientist sort of vibe to the hobby. And he does know how to creatively art direct to make stunning games. I mean, you have to look no further than Magic Girl to know he knows how to make something that visually will be very arresting. We're going to talk a little bit about Magic Girl versus this game because Magic Girl also had a lot of like weird and strange toys that didn't work. But if they had worked, I think would have justified like having a Magic Girl, right? Because it's got like a levitation chamber. It's got this crazy buck that shoots the ball up through the middle of the play field, these crazy ramps going all over the place. And I think when people saw Alice, you didn't see that level of like crazy stuff happening all over the game. Now also when you think about Magic Girl and I had one John did something and Melvin knows this John did something very unique He disguised a lack of actual stuff in the game with artwork Like he layered up plastics and put that Zombietti artwork all over the game like the magic wand hands, and they don't do anything. And all these like colorful spirals all over the game, they don't do anything. There's that like enchanted hair thing, doesn't do anything. So he had a lot of stuff that made the game look like it was packed with mechs and toys, but it was actually empty. So we get to this J-pop foam core game and the game itself had nothing engineered for it. So Melvin took that and made what we saw today. And I think we all have to be reminded a little bit of that. Like cut the guy a little slack. He turned something that was nothing into a playable game. Now we're gonna get to the video in a little bit and that's the problem with today is you made something playable and people want it to be fun. They want to see the gameplay. They want to see some magic and some wow and some reason to believe. I think that's the fairest way to describe on any new pinball day, you have to give people a reason to believe in the game that extends beyond artwork, that extends beyond the pedigree of the game, that extends beyond the theme itself. Like there has to be a reason in the gameplay that makes people believe in the game. If that does not exist, you are going to instantly trigger a sort of revolt and a civil war against your product because at the end of the day, a pinball machine is a game and the game needs to be there. The game needs to be the thing you highlight. And Carrie and I haven't seen much of the game. We've seen a lot of what surrounds the game. And I think after today, none of us have seen the game. I don't even understand what was in that video. We're going to get to it. Trust me, we're going to get to it. So we go through the sequence of events today. You know, there's all these rumors that are true, that distributors had lists that were longer than the amount of games that were going to be made. So Melissa had a list over 200. Other distributors had long lists as well. And I just reached out to Melissa right now. It is four o'clock and she said the game is selling really well. And there is now a rumor that it might be sold out. I don't buy that. I don't think it's sold out yet. I also don't think these distributors have all collected money. Until you have the money in the bank, you don't have an order. And we all know how pinball goes. People are very fickle. Like over the next 24 hours, you give people too much time to sleep on it. And history has shown us that people will normally bail out, not jump in. And again, that's why you need a reason for people to believe. So they'll A, stay in on their order, but also jump in on an order. So Melvin made this game and I do think it's beautiful. and I haven't played it. So when you look at the photos of the game, and I did my like two hour live reveal, for those of you who came and hung out, it was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun. Today's what pinball is all about. Everybody coming together, having strong opinions about a new pinball machine that somebody built and put into the world. Most of us couldn't even build a flipper bat assembly, yet we have very strong opinions about all the different facets that go into making a pinball machine, but we're allowed to. These are expensive games. They're expensive toys. And I loved reading all of the feedback, hearing like the cheers and the cries and the slander and the celebration and all of it mixed together in such a short window today. You have to admit it was a fun Monday. Like this is a fun Monday. If every Monday we got to have a new pinball machine and hang out together and deconstruct it, I think we'd all be in a really good mood every single week. So we have this live reveal and then we start to show the pictures of the game and you know right away when you see a new pinball machine, you know people want to see the play field, the play field, the play field. I went from the outside in because I knew the cabinet artwork was really nice and the trans light and people would be excited about it but nobody cared. It's good. Everyone's keeping me honest like everybody wants to see what's in the game. We went over the game. We went over the play field. And when you go over it, I'm just going to be honest. It is colorful. It is very pretty. But people start to ask questions right away. Where's the major mech? And I would argue in this game, the major mech is the upper play field. But then people get more pointed. Where's the major toy in the game? What is a toy in this game? And it a great question And it a great question I think every single pinball manufacturer needs to answer on each of their games moving forward If you don have a few toys you going to get dinged on it You going to get dinged on it especially like a J inspired game The guy was known for like the Circus Voltaire ringmaster. He was known for World Cup soccer, like shooting the ball up the middle with the goalie. That was awesome. He's known for stuff like the genie with a disappearing magnet that throws the fireballs at you with the magnet. He's known for stuff like the theater of magic, like magic trunk. And so like if you're going to take a J-pop design and, you know, you come out and it's not loaded with toys, it's going to make people feel a little bit like it's still missing the touch by its master, right? John Papadiuk. And then you go to the artwork. It's missing the colorization of its master, Zambietti. All that being said, the vibe around this game. And I was there. I was witnessing this in the first 20 to 30 minutes when there was no video and we were just looking at the photos and people were starting to talk about how distros were selling out and they were out of stock and there's only this many left. And I didn't get my email from Melissa, you know, because she has too many people to email. You know, there was like this weird thing happening. There was like, there was like a combination of extreme criticism and sales happening. It was like this interesting tug of war. It's like, would FOMO win out? And would the sales just happen because of artwork and rarity? Or would people that appreciate gameplay and seeing toys and those who have become accustomed to waiting and seeing, are those people going to wait out? Is patience going to be where profit lies with this game? Because if you run in right away now, is this going to be a game that's not going to take off? That's not going to sell out. That's not going to have a lot of demand after today because we all know in the pinball world, if you don't catch fire in week one, you're never catching fire. Like it's not happening anymore. So we're in this tug of war, right? And no one really knows who's winning the war. I have no idea like how sales are. I definitely know this pinball machine is divisive and people are starting to say, well, all right, like I need to see it. Like I need to see gameplay. It's called a game for a reason. When are they going to play it? And then people are saying the video is going to drop in 10 minutes. And I start to get a little nervous because I had never seen a video. And I've been asking for a video for a while. I know Carrie has been asking for a while. Melvin's been waiting for the team to get a good edit. And then the video goes up and I start watching it like the rest of you. And I start looking at all these quick cuts and these like zany call outs animations. I didn't mind. I thought the animations were good. And it's almost like I see the whole video. I see the queen of hearts. I kind of like the music in her sequence. And I like the energy there. And I like her animations. And I see the magna flip. And I see the jabberwocky and all that stuff. And the multiball. And this weird Mad Hatter saying jackpot. All of it's going on. And then it ends. And I don't even feel like I saw a pinball. I don't feel like I saw the game. I never saw the ball go from the flippers up the playfield and do anything. And so it was like the weirdest video to me because it's like, I don't think you can even do anything after that video other than make an opinion about the call outs, which is not what you want to leave people thinking about, or the animations. And this is why marketing does matter. You don't have to spend $100,000 on a highly polished video. But if you want people to commit to $12,500, you got to make a video better than that. And I told that to Melvin after I'm like, that video is just rough. It just didn't do anybody any favors. They would have been better off. No video, just sell the game on the images. And honestly, with the target audience that this game is aiming for, and it's like that J-pop obsessed, I'm one of them. You know, I'm one of them. The person who just wants a beautiful game that actually works, that's unique and rare. That's your target audience. You already had us. You had us without even showing gameplay. And all of us who ordered the game were all in the same boat. We all deserve to be indicted on some level that we're able to love pinball without seeing enough of the fundamentals of pinball because you didn't see enough of the fundamentals of pinball. And if that video came out from Stern or Jersey Jack or like CGC or American Pinball, if anyone else dropped that video today as their new game, you know you would absolutely annihilate them. And so the video comes out and it doesn do it any justice at all In fact it has the opposite effect I think it going to make people second guess and wonder if they should stay in Ironic considering it says wonder real big across the play field Now look, I'm still staying in because I'm at the end of the line on this game. So I got plenty of time to make up my mind. I also still, I mean this, I still don't know what this game is like. I haven't seen anything. I don't know if it's going to be fun anymore. I don't know if it's going to be a brick fest. I don't know if it's going to have flow and be smooth and just be so rewarding to go through it. Is it going to be like a fun thing to own if I've got a lineup of Stearns and Jersey Jacks? I don't know. I don't know. And the fact that they didn't give everybody enough to know, I've always got to be on the side of the customer here is you need to get more than this. you need to get more than this this isn't enough anymore it's 2024 if this was back when zidware was founded you could do this much and people would throw money at you remember john rocked into expo with just trans lights and people were handing him checks for sixteen thousand dollars a lot has changed so i think now it's gonna get interesting because now these games are going to Expo. People are going to play them. No sizzle reel videos, no high-res imagery. You're going to walk up to this game and you're going to get a chance to play it. All of you who are about to do that, you now have a golden opportunity to give everybody else in the hobby the feedback they're going to need to know how the game is. Now, here's what I think is going to happen. Because of the atrocious video and because of the polarization of this game, I do think people are going to jump on it and kind of have more fun because their expectations now are not through the roof. The thing is, it's a delicate dance marketing these games. It really is. And I think for all these pinball games and all these companies and for this much money across the board, Every game now moving forward, you need to design it around one to three magical toys. You need to design it with like a unique layout that people haven't seen before. And each game just has to do some stuff that pulls you in. And to be fair to all of my audience, I don't think you saw enough today to pull you in. I don't. I don't think they showed enough today that absolutely should make you feel like I'm in and I saw it and wow, I can't wait to do that. I also, when you flip the coin over, I also don't know if you know enough yet to write it off as being an utter disaster. I see people saying it's the next Cosmic Carnival. It's the next Galactic Tank Force. Is it? Like, I don't know. I've played those games. They're kind of terrible. Is it going to play like that? I don't know. The good news is this. In just a week or so, we're all going to know how this game plays. It's out there now, right? It's out there. And there's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do. I signed an NDA and there's only so much I can help with on any of these games. I got to be brought in early to actually give creative advice. I mean, really early, not at the end where it's just like, help me launch it because you know, I'll help you launch it. Like I will get hype going for anything, but you have to deliver. The game has to deliver. At the end of the day, the only marketing that matters in pinball is the actual game itself. and it's never a bad day to release a great game and it's never a great day to release a bad game. Everybody, I know you can hear it in my voice. I wasn't even supposed to be doing shows. I'm still recovering. If I've upset any of you because of my hype train, I'm gonna chalk it up to the oxycodone in my system. Let me know how you feel. Go into the chat on Patreon right in the comment section here. But yeah, like a real mixed bag launch today. In fact, it's skewed more into the negative territory because of that video. And it just goes to show you, you only get one chance to make a first impression and you can't wing it on the video, especially of a pinball machine, because the only way you can get a sense of how it plays is with video. All right, everybody, it's really not rocket science. And that's why nobody in pinball could afford my hourly rate. They should just be able to figure this out on their own. oh we'll be back i can't wait to read more feedback throughout the night and see if the game actually does sell out later you