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The Pinball Show Ep 121 Part 2: From BUY Now! To CRY Now! #crycrycry

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 22m·analyzed·Jan 17, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.040

TL;DR

Bond 60th Anniversary layout praised, art direction harshly criticized; topper exclusivity controversy explained.

Summary

The Pinball Show hosts discuss Keith Elwin's design of the James Bond 007 60th Anniversary pinball machine, covering gameplay mechanics (inline drop targets, spinning disc, four opto spinners, figure-eight shot), design philosophy (drainy but fair, no lane change), and production timeline (targeting late January/early February release). The episode heavily critiques the game's art direction and backglass design, calling it potentially "the ugliest pinball machine ever created" due to mismatched movie poster fonts, poor composition, and licensor-driven constraints. A controversy regarding exclusive topper marketing is discussed, where Stern's use of "exclusive" in promotional material caused dealer/collector confusion about topper availability across game tiers.

Key Claims

  • Keith Elwin designed Bond 60th Anniversary because of an unusually large gap between his cornerstone assignments, stepping up by choice.

    high confidence · Stern Insider Pinball Podcast featuring Keith Elwin and Mark Panaccio; direct quote: 'This game was done by Elwin by choice because there was an unusually large gap for him in between cornerstones.'

  • Bond 60th has identical playfield-to-glass clearance as Beatles, and shares the same cabinet stature (shorter than regular Cornerstone games, sits like a Beatles or TNA).

    high confidence · Keith Elwin discussing design constraints; hosts observed cabinet holes at CES debut making it visibly shorter than other Cornerstone machines.

  • The spinning disc in Bond 60th has a designated home position at 3-4 o'clock, purposefully blocking some drop targets rather than stopping at random positions.

    high confidence · Keith Elwin statement: 'The spinning disc has a home at 3 to 4 o'clock.' Host explanation: 'instead of sitting being distributed weight wise evenly... it stays around 3 to 4 o'clock which is purposeful to block some of the drop targets.'

  • Keith Elwin's personal high score on Bond 60th is 18,000 points; the game will have a rolling mechanism but nobody will be able to completely roll it.

    high confidence · Elwin: 'His high score is 18,000 points. He said nobody is going to completely roll this game at all.'

  • Bond 60th is a low-scoring, drainy-but-fair game with no lane change mechanic and a smaller ball save than typical modern games.

    high confidence · Mark Panaccio confirmed drainy design philosophy; hosts discuss trade-offs between accessibility and difficulty with references to no lane change increasing nudge value.

  • Bond 60th features multiple multiball modes (described as 'one to two wizard mode mints') and includes a multiball restart mechanic like 1990s games (e.g., Whirlwind).

    high confidence · Mark Panaccio statement about 'one to two wizard mode mints' and hosts discussing multiball restart mechanics not seen recently.

  • Bond 60th will include three selectable sound package options: modern, 80s synth electronic, and 60s/70s ding-ding classic styles.

Notable Quotes

  • “Bonus is huge. That is where the jackpots are going to lie. That's where the big points are going to lie.”

    Keith Elwin @ Stern Insider Pinball Podcast segment — Explains the game's classic pinball design philosophy centering on bonus collection as primary scoring mechanic.

  • “Drainy but fair.”

    Keith Elwin @ Stern Insider Pinball Podcast segment — Core design philosophy for Bond 60th; hosts reference this quote multiple times as encapsulating the game's difficulty balance.

  • “This game is ugly. This game is ugly. This really isn't.”

    Zach (host) @ ~58 minutes — Emphatic statement about the harshly criticized backglass and art direction; summarizes dominant sentiment about aesthetic failures.

  • “I almost feel like Stern, this is Stern's wink to us as saying, guys, we hate these restrictions so much that we're going to make it hideous just as a middle finger to the IP holder.”

    Dennis (host) @ ~60 minutes — Speculative theory that Stern deliberately made the game ugly to protest IP licensing restrictions; reflects frustration with licensor control over art direction.

  • “If I had to say my favorite part of this layout and my least favorite... That figure eight combo shot that utilizes four spinners. Great spinners, there's nothing like them. If you're into pinball playing, there's nothing like a rippable spinner... That's orgasmic.”

    Zach (host) @ ~33 minutes — Highlights the layout's strongest mechanical feature; contrasts positive gameplay design against negative aesthetic presentation.

  • “If it's not exclusive to that model, the confusion should have been, they should have caught it as a potential point of confusion.”

    Dennis (host) @ ~72 minutes — Assessment of Stern's marketing misstep; acknowledges the company's fault in not proactively clarifying topper exclusivity language.

  • “They're tracing them in yellow doing that whole YouTube thumbnail thing where I'm going to grow the image by 20 pixels, then you put in the new layer opacity glow.”

Entities

Keith ElwinpersonMark PanacciopersonJames Bond 007 60th AnniversarygameThe BeatlesgameStern PinballcompanyScooby-Doogame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern issued formal dealer clarification email addressing topper exclusivity confusion; an internal dealer memo was leaked to public, acknowledged positively by hosts as promoting transparency in community.

    high · Host: 'Whatever dealer is leaking and sharing information from Stern to the public, like, good on you, buddy, because what an idiot move [by Stern to cause confusion].'

  • ?

    community_signal: Multiple video, stream, and podcast discussions generated across community about topper exclusivity controversy; widespread collector frustration with perceived marketing deception, though hosts note confusion may not have been intentional.

    high · Host: 'There's videos. I understand being angry. There's streams. There's podcasts. How dare Stern lie to us?... If they said exclusive in the trailer for the 60th, yeah, I could see where people would think that.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spinning disc with hat mechanism criticized by one host as 'too modern' for a classic-themed game; perceived as unnecessary addition to already risky inline drop target layout.

    high · Host statement: 'my least favorite thing actually is the spinning disc with the hat. It's a little... I don't think we needed the hat.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Bond 60th backglass art direction fundamentally misaligned with theme; excessive use of mismatched movie poster fonts, poor composition, yellow outlines on characters described as 'YouTube thumbnail style,' and licensor-driven constraints creating visually incoherent design.

    high · Host: 'This game is ugly.' 'They straight up thumbnail them onto the [backglass].' 'It's all like – they're just all like snapped and lined up.' Speculation: 'Stern's wink to us... we hate these restrictions so much that we're going to make it hideous.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.248

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. We now return you to part two of episode 121 of The Pinball Show. We hope you ate your Wheaties today.
0:30
I did want to bring up the Stern Insider Pinball Podcast. They had on designer Keith Elwin and coder Mark Panaccio. A lot of juice came out of this podcast. I listened to it. They talked about, I'm going to hit some of the highlights here. Go listen to it for yourself. This game was done by Elwin by choice because, like you said, Dennis, there was an unusually large gap for him in between cornerstones. So he stepped up and said, yeah, I'd like to throw my top hat in the ring. I do like the way it spins. And note, listener, he did say between cornerstones So we thought about What if we're doing the lime and sheets thing Where we're just designating him to the higher levels He did say cornerstone I think he does mean that We're going to see another cornerstone from him in the future It's not going to be for a while That's partly what you're paying as well The Bond 60th game has the same clearance He was talking about designing it, Keith Elwin Clearance from playfield to glass as the Beatles So that's what he was using To see what can be done vertically On that game which also, I don't know if anybody's been talking about this, I was a little upset about this, Dennis. I was looking at pictures at CES where it was debuting publicly. It also has the same cabinet stature, holes in the cabinet to make it smaller stature than the other Cornerstone games. So it sits like a Beatles game or a TNA rather than the Cornerstones. Because it's not Cornerstone. more so it fits in the nostalgic classic play style cabinet that beatles did beatles sits inches shorter than the regular i don't like that why i'm mixed don't you think people at twenty thousand dollars deserve it to be special no damn it we deserve it to line up oh i want it to line up with everything else i don't line up with your beatles you know what training up is That gives me a reason as a collector to want a Beatles again. The reason I don't own Beatles is because I don't want to take the time to put it in a different cabinet. Stay down. Oh, my God. I know. It's an illness, Dennis. It's an illness. Yes, that is. I've only heard of someone you could speak to. Because Radical won't go into my lineup until I get another Bally ugly-ass head game with the speakers at top. I'm thinking Party Zone. It won't go into the lineup either. I just don't want to. At least needs to have a mate. That's what I'm saying. And I'm going to have to get a Beatles now.

high confidence · Hosts discussing sound options: 'Do you want modern sounds... Do you want 80s synth electronic... Or do you want 60s and 70s ding, ding, ding...'

  • Bond 60th was originally targeted for December production but pushed to late January/early February.

    high confidence · Host: 'At the time of that podcast recording, they thought they were going to be in production of the 60th anniversary game in December. That did not happen. But as I said earlier, end of January, beginning of February.'

  • The backglass art uses multiple different fonts (one for each Bond movie) as a licensor requirement, creating visual inconsistency.

    high confidence · Host commentary: 'all the names of the movies in each one's a different font. I get it. They were told you have to use the fonts that were used on the posters. Like, they don't match.'

  • Stern's 'exclusive 007 topper' promotional language caused collector confusion; the exclusivity refers to the licensed 007 topper design, not exclusivity to the 60th Anniversary tier, and Stern is selling toppers separately to all tiers.

    high confidence · Host describing dealer email clarification: 'Stern Pinball came out with a formal announcement to dealers... saying, hey, there's some confusion here. We said exclusive in the promo trailer. We're talking about 007, like an exclusive 007 licensed topper. But people are getting it mixed up.'

    • Zach (host) @ ~54 minutes — Specific criticism of the backglass character treatment; compares art style to cheap social media thumbnail design, emphasizing amateurish execution.

  • “Nobody's going to do it, which makes people want to do it.”

    Host @ ~28 minutes — Discusses the psychological appeal of an unrollable game; explains why the high-score design strategy motivates competitive players.

  • “I don't want to take the time to put it in a different cabinet. Stay down.”

    Zach (host) @ ~6 minutes — Personal anecdote about why he doesn't own Beatles despite liking it; illustrates collector fixation on physical lineup consistency—a niche but passionate concern.

  • “Whatever dealer is leaking and sharing information from Stern to the public, like, good on you, buddy.”

    Dennis (host) @ ~70 minutes — Acknowledges and praises the dealer who leaked Stern's internal clarification email about topper exclusivity, treating the leak as transparency serving the community.

    • The Pinball Show
    organization
    Stern Insider Pinball Podcastorganization
    Dennisperson
    Zachperson
    Seth Davisperson
    American Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    TNA (Total Nuclear Annihilation)game
    Whirlwindgame
    CES (Consumer Electronics Show)event
    Straight Down the Middleorganization
    Silver Sluggergame
    Indiana Jones (Pinball)game
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin deliberately designed Bond 60th as a challenging, low-scoring game with mechanical drain risk ('drainy but fair') that increases the value of nudging and playfield positioning over pure ramp-feeding; contrasts with modern trend toward player-friendly accessibility.

    high · Elwin's quote 'drainy but fair' and host discussion: 'And you need those to accomplish the various tasks... inline drop targets were like the early version of AFM's UFO... there's a sucker shot.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Bond 60th licensing constraints severely impacted art direction; each movie's font must be used per licensor requirement, creating visual inconsistency and poor aesthetic coherence across backglass.

    high · Host: 'They were told you have to use the fonts that were used on the posters. Like, they don't match.' Speculation about Comic Sans: 'I'm sure Comic Sans is in there somewhere.'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's use of term 'exclusive' in promotional trailer for Bond 60th topper caused widespread dealer and collector confusion; Stern issued internal dealer clarification stating exclusivity referred to licensed 007 topper design, not exclusivity to 60th Anniversary tier. Toppers being sold separately to all game tiers.

    high · Host: 'When it was recently announced... that Stern Pinball will be selling these 007 toppers... people were like, wait a cotton pick a minute... they shouldn't have some shithead be able to put it on his pro.' Dealer email excerpt: 'We said exclusive in the promo trailer... People are getting it mixed up and saying that they thought it was just for the 60th anniversary.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Keith Elwin stepped up voluntarily to design Bond 60th during unusually large gap between his cornerstone assignments, indicating designer agency and willingness to fill production gaps despite time constraints.

    high · Host: 'This game was done by Elwin by choice because there was an unusually large gap for him in between cornerstones. So he stepped up and said, yeah, I'd like to throw my top hat in the ring.'

  • ?

    announcement: Bond 60th features three selectable sound package options (modern, 80s synth electronic, 60s/70s classic chimes), allowing players to customize audio experience; game uses mechanical reels for slot machine-style match sequence, and includes EM-era back glass lighting.

    high · Host: 'There's three choices of sound packages... modern sounds... 80s synth electronic... 60s and 70s ding, ding, ding.' 'They're using mechanical reels for the match sequence. That's really neat.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Bond 60th was originally targeted for December 2024 production but delayed to late January/early February 2025; hosts speculate close release timeline with Scooby-Doo (within one week).

    high · Host: 'At the time of that podcast recording, they thought they were going to be in production... in December. That did not happen. But as I said earlier, end of January, beginning of February.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Bond 60th designed as intentionally challenging game with specific mechanical features (inline drops, spinning disc, four spinners, figure-eight shot) that create higher drain risk; playfield art notably superior to backglass art, using 90s Williams-style path differentiation with varied colors.

    high · Host: 'I would honestly say the play field itself, I like twice as much as I do the cornerstone play field... I love the coloring. I love the composition better... Felt like a 90s Williams, like Demoman with the path. I think that actually looks really, I like the color scheme of that play field.'

    • 2:57
    Noah arcane his pinball collection. This is crazy. I know. I feel it. This is sad. It needs a pair. It needs something. Yeah. So I don't know if I'm crazy about that. The spinning disc. Nobody's talking about this. The spinning disc, Keith said, has a home at 3 to 4 o'clock. So instead of sitting Being distributed weight wise evenly Where it can stop anywhere in that What would you call that cycle It stays around 3 to 4 o'clock Which is purposeful To block some of the drop targets That's pretty clever Keith Ellen also said In this game quote bonus is huge End quote That is where the jackpots are going to lie That's where the big points are going to lie So you tilt out You do something stupid It's going to Indiana Jones mode your ass and you're not going to get any points.
    3:46
    So it is that standard, you know, you build up that bonus, either collect it or at the end of the ball, that's very classic pinball, isn't it? Yep. So is no lane change. How do you feel about that? No lane change in this game. That's interesting. I mean, lane change, obviously, firepower. Firepower. Yeah, trailblazed on that. Though, you know, it's an interesting choice. I actually have my rules configured on my hoops to hard so that you cannot lane change at the top. You can't lane change with the flippers, I should say, because it does lane change, but it's by the slingshots. Okay. Yeah, games do that, or by pops or something. Yeah, yeah. So actually, yeah, in the regards to, like, if you want to make the game harder, then no lane change is a way to go. And it increases the value of nudging. And he did talk about, you know, this is a modern game, so there is a ball save, albeit a little bit smaller of a ball save than you would see maybe in more modern games but a little ball save I did love that they talked about there's a multi-ball restart in this game like the old 90's games you didn't get your jackpot you know, you're down to one ball whirlwind restart, hit it in the cellar baby start this thing again, we'll give you another shot at it we haven't seen that in a while that's really cool I like that they're using the mechanical reels of that we'll talk about mechanical reels, but the mechanical reels in the game, they're using a slot machine effect for the match sequence. That's really neat. Trippable in, is it inline or in lanes? I've heard it said both. Inline. Because they are in a line. That's what I thought too. They're not in the lane. No, no. Because inline would make it sound like they're the return lanes. Exactly.
    5:32
    Inline. Trippable inline drop targets. Used for a couple of different things. Why this is important, listeners, because typically on the mechanism of a drop target, it is gravity-based. So if you hit one of them, it'll go down, and you have to hit all three for the coil to know to reset them all back up.
    5:52
    These are trippable. Thus, they can be programmed to all drop for something. He used the example, Keith Elwin, said if you do a super skill shot, I guess probably hold the left flipper, do a full plunge around and then hit it off the fly onto just one of the first of the inline drop targets, they'll all fall down for that super skill shot. That's super damn cool. Also, the action button. If you think a certain gadget that you gain, you can use that gadget weapon as like a power where you hit the action button and it trips all of the inline drops. That way, if you're ready for a lock or a multiball, whatnot. Yeah, and then we talked about it before, Elwin, noting this game is drainy but fair. I don't know why I like that. Trainy but fair. They were talking about Insider Connected and some of the achievements. This Mark Panaccio came on to Stern not too long ago for one of the main purposes was to help with Insider Connected and the achievement-based operating system, coding and all of that. And he's coding this game, so he's really big into this Insider Connected achievement stuff. And he said, for example, really cool stuff, you end a ball, or maybe you end the game, and the last digits of your score are 00777, those become insider-connected achievements. I do like hearing the attention to details on some of this stuff like that. We got old-school back glass lighting. So they have like the, I don't know if they have baffles, but like tilt. There would be a light behind tilt on the back glass or a light behind what ball it is.
    7:20
    Yeah, I think what ball it is. the scores will be lit up. What did they do that? System 11 is probably one of the latest to do that. Some System 11 games. Don't worry about code. There's multiple multiballs in this game.
    7:36
    The coder even said there's one to two wizard. He didn't call them wizard mode. He said, like, I call them mode mints. Wizard mode mints in this game. I don't know if it's like a vacation jackpot or a vacation planer kind of thing. But, yeah, one to two wizard mode mints. When talking about this game being drainy but fair, it's a low-scoring game. And the host of the show asked, can you roll it? Because there's only a certain amount of number segments. And Elwin said his high score is 18,000 points. He said nobody is going to completely roll this game at all. Nobody's going to do it, which makes people want to do it. It does. They're going to be driven. Yep. They're going to be driven. because it's like you can roll it initially, but then it'll get a light behind the back glass that shows probably like 10,000 and then 10,000 plus whatever the real is, 20,000, 20,000 plus whatever the real is. But to completely roll it, he said, it ain't happening, people. At the time of that podcast recording, they thought they were going to be in production of the 60th anniversary game in December. That did not happen. But as I said earlier, end of January, beginning of February. So this damn thing is coming fast. what gets here first? Scooby-Doo or Bond's 60th? That's a close one because I know the Scoobies the first batch that they like to do are on the line.
    8:59
    I'm going to That's tough. I would lean to saying Scooby actually but I think it's going to be close like within a week. It is going to be close. I'm going to guess Scooby as well. Stern's like, hold my beer.
    9:18
    They aren't listening. They don't care. They don't give a shit. We both like the layout, right? Yes, I think so. I like that you brought up on a couple shows now, the flow shots are there. They're cute. They're going to feel good. But this is a very classic layout that's going to keep you in trouble. Spinning disc is going to get you into trouble. Left or right action is going to get you into trouble. and that excites you actually yeah i mean i think that's one of the strengths of uh of playing a single level design is you can have all these interesting configurations because you don't have to accommodate all these entrances for ramps and easy feedbacks to yeah yeah but but you know i like flow can be fun um and but do you really want everything to just be this is just going to return to the flipper and it's going to return to the flipper like like competitively i kind of get it why some people really favor those games where every shot is rewarded by setting you up for a new shot but you know the point the point of pinball also can be about trying to execute on making shots that you need and then recovering and the trick of course is finding that balance so that it's not maybe a a oh everything feed feeds back all day but you maybe also don't want a whole flash gordon experience where every shot is like instant death every shot's a bastard yeah yeah Your palms hurt every time you play one ball. And I think that fits with that quote you're fond of from Elwynn of the drainy but fair. All those drops and that spinning disc and everything, no, there's a lot of drain potential on this game. And you need those to accomplish the various tasks. Inline drop targets were like the early version of AFM's UFO. I always feel like there's a sucker shot. Like, oh, there's a reward there, but they're always going to be aimed right back at the center drain. Yeah, and I think his center drops as well. It's interesting because, of course, they aim kind of towards the middle, but then you've also got that hat spinning disc post that interferes with some of those. And you've got the captive ball right there that, if it is like an Indiana Jones captive ball, I hate every time I hit that on an Indiana Jones because I'm like, oh, it's going to freaking wire guide right down or metal guide right down the drain. Every damn time you feel like you're hitting that. looking at this layout you really like it what's your least favorite part of this layout yeah and then subsequently your best or your favorite yeah well i mean even though i i'm a fan of the sort of the the drainy nature that we're that we're seeing in the game i do think that the the figure eight is is the most exciting aspect because it's so different from from anything else that we've seen before.
    12:05
    Yeah, I guess my least favorite thing actually is the spinning disc with the hat. It's a little... That actually... There are other games with discs and stuff, but for me that feels almost too modern to be in this.
    12:21
    And I think that that triple Union Jack drop target stuff that they've got in front of it, I think that's risky enough as it is. I don't think we needed the hat. So I would say I don't hate it. It's just, yeah, if you want me to pick my least favorite thing, it would be, yeah, the hat. And I look forward to trying the figure eight. If you want, like, outside of the figure eight, that he was able to work, of course, tied to it in part. But working in four opto spinners is pretty cool. I mean, four spinners in general. I know they claimed it was the first game with four spinners, and I couldn't think of anything that had more than three. Oh, well, I would have thought something would have had four spinners. Maybe there's something somewhere, but my favorite, I really liked TNA a lot as a game, but my absolute favorite single-level design, just from a layout perspective, was Silver Slugger, and it had three. Oh, okay. The rules on Silver Slugger were terrible, but the layout was a lot of fun. Every inch of that layout was used to good effect. That is smart. If I had to say my favorite part of this layout and my least favorite or the biggest negative for me, I'm kind of with you, actually. Because for me, yeah, it's that figure eight combo shot that utilizes four spinners. Great spinners, there's nothing like them. If you're into pinball playing, there's nothing like a rippable spinner. And then you add optos on top of that. Then you add sound effects that are more classic in nature, all four of them spinning, maybe with that disc as well, five spinning all at once with a figure eight double combo with an orbit. Come on. That's orgasmic. Potentially orgasmic. Clean up aisle nine. So I think that is. I do think it's pretty damn clever that you can hit it back up the exit path of that figure eight. and instead of continuing the path of set eight, it actually goes into a saucer to collect a bond. I think it's really smart. I like that. That's really good design. At least that's what Keith was aiming for when he said, you know what I'm talking about, that left. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I like that. I might have said my favorite part was the inline drops if they could have done something else at the conclusion of that. Just having a saucer there that kicks it back. Give me a side kick out. Give me something else there, whether it's give me a subway, give me a physical ball hold. Maybe hold the ball there. I don't think it holds the ball there physically. Give me something else there because I love inlines, but I just felt like they could have done something else with that whole captive ball and the back end of that inline, in my opinion.
    15:10
    Because captive balls, they're okay. Keith loves captive balls for some reason. Just loves them. and the spinning disc is my least favorite part. I'm just tired of them. I'm tired of them being automated on Toy Story 4 and spinning themselves Whirlwind style. I'm tired of them Avengers-ing it up and GNR slash hatting it. I'm done. It does feel good if you just nail one. It feels almost as good as a spinner, but enough is enough of that. I'm tired of them. Art, you said, I don't want to misquote you here, something like might be the ugliest pinball machine ever created um you know maybe so i i it's so hard to say i mean uh in our group dennis i think david did especially said the what's better the art on hoops or this and you said hoops i think he agreed with me uh because you know it gets tough sharing that publicly but if you go back if you go back to the 90s you know I'm thinking – because you had some just bad drawing, like Nedry's oversized hand on Daddy East Jurassic Park, right? Or Hoops, which isn't like – it's not the most attractively drawn individual. But they are hand-drawn.
    16:27
    They don't give you the old – this is all the worst of the Photoshop era vibe, whether or not they ended up going like pulling a Star Wars and hand-drawing them all over again or not. You know there are all these set poses. The posters that don't match. so you've kind of you kind of like tried to put one side with the mostly the white background posters and the other side with the black you have the gaps the 60th they kind of cram like the yellow posters towards the back on both because they're like this doesn't work the Pierce Brosnan posters by and large are covered in reds and oranges because it was all explosions versus the old like it's all you can tell it's I feel you can tell it's licensor driven stuff but it is almost as if this The game started with no art, started at the top with a bunch of Bond posters piled on top of it on the tippy-top branches of the ugly tree and then just sort of fell and hit all the branches all the way down and slapped the posters on. It's all like – they're just all like snapped and lined up.
    17:29
    The Translite isn't as – The ugly stick. Yeah. The Translite works – It's not a Translite. It's a back glass mirror. Sorry. $20,000. Apologies. Yes. It's collectors. Glass isn't quite as bad as the sides of it because at least the artist was allowed to sort of carve each of the bonds up into a triangle. So they're segmented out.
    17:51
    Daniel Craig has no gun still. No, he has no gun. He's too busy taking off his bow tie. But no, this game is ugly.
    18:00
    This game is ugly. The layout, excuse me, the play field art is the best part of it. You know what? And it's sort of old school style. They didn't put a whole lot of – there are heads on it, but they're really small, and most of it's just like showing you the lines, rectangles, arrows showing you the shots. So in an old school way, I like that the best. But in a lineup, I would wedge this in the middle for sure. I completely agree, and this is an ugly game. This really isn't. There's no – Oh, the size of the back box, Zach. and all the names of the movies in each one's a different font. I get it. They were told you have to use the fonts that were used on the posters. Like, they don't match. This is like, this is like, I'm sure Comic Sans is in there somewhere. Comics.
    18:52
    Which movie do you think was the Comic Sans movie? Moonraker, probably. I had to guess. If I had to put my chips on one, I'm betting Moonraker. This is an ugly game. You're right. the thing that we hated most about the Cornerstone, that one side of posters, they double downed on it and put it on both sides. I'm going to double down. It is ugly. The head is ugly. The Ellie back glass, I'm with you. That's not horrible. Typically, I could still call an art package beautiful and one of my favorites if that was the worst part of it, that Ellie back glass. The problem is that's the best part of it. I would honestly say the play field itself, I like twice as much as I do the cornerstone play field, though. I can see that. I love the coloring. I love the composition better. And I love what you were talking about, those ball paths being different colors. Felt like a 90s Williams, like Demoman with the path. I think that actually looks really, I like the color scheme of that play field. I think it's sexy. I don't think that color scheme makes any sense to the outside black cabinet nature or the LE back glass nature. None of it makes sense, and it's poorly done. I almost feel like this is crazy. I almost feel like Stern, this is Stern's wink to us as saying, guys, we hate these restrictions so much that we're going to make it hideous just as a middle finger to the IP holder because there's nothing we can do to save this. So we want to make it really shitty Just to say bro that has nothing to do with us That an interesting thing One of the things I think you probably appreciate this because of your work with Straight Down the Middle So when you look at the close-ups of the Bond characters, and not just them, but the gadgets, like the jetpack and the spy camera, and they're all traced in yellow doing that whole YouTube thumbnail thing where I'm going to grow the image by 20 pixels, then you put in the new layer opacity glow right there that's right and then you choose the shade around the growth outline and they used yellow for all of it and i'm just like it's so you i was waiting for the james bonds to have the reaction the reaction looks too like like a thumbnail youtube video yeah i just no i'm just like they straight up thumbnail them onto the i mean i so rarely on my youtube to use a thumbnail style because it's so ubiquitous but Oh, it's bad. It's like, wait a minute.
    21:35
    Kerry Hardy has used this pose in 20 different thumbnails. Hmm. Another photo session here. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, that's bad. Now, sound, we don't know. We've not seen much of the gameplay of this. I do know, I think everybody does know, that there's an option. There's three choices of sound packages to the effects of this game. Do people know that? I did not until actually reading our notes. Okay, yeah. So I don't think this is – I think this can be publicly shared. Yeah, there's – you get to choose. Do you want modern sounds coming from this game? Do you want 80s synth electronic kind of, you know, firepower set? Or do you want 60s and 70s ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, that kind of stuff? So what does modern mean? Because it's not going to, like, have full call-outs and stuff, is it? No, I don't know. I think modern means full high-res audio. No limits like an 80s electronic. Maybe it means 90s. Maybe it'll be like Doctor Who. Here's a second chance.
    22:44
    I don't know why I was thinking. When I think of 90s, I always think of Friends. Maybe it has that main theme song in it. I'll be there for you.
    22:56
    Yes, I think that's what modern is. It's been one week since you looked at me. Saw my play on the side. I was ugly.
    23:06
    I'm sorry. Oh, my God. I can get behind that, actually. I don't think this is a... They're aiming for movie assets and sound assets. This is a... They want a nostalgic game. This is what this is. This is like playing an old school game. So, yeah, you're not going to get any of that. Same with like video and stuff. I don't think you're going to get any of that. I don't think you're going to. Why couldn't they? If they were going to put the reels in there, damn it, Keith, did you not have enough in the bomb to put in some chimes? Are people afraid to do that? What the hell is it? I feel like Seinfeld, pinball Seinfeld. What is it without chimes in games? Are bells that expensive? Maybe it's they didn't want to throw in the other node board to run them. Oh. Right? Because each chime has to have a coil. Yeah, you're right. You're right. But why not? We should be able to create a symphony of 12 different bells. The thing that bothered me more is at the price point of the game, I would have really liked to have seen four score reels for four players. I agree. In the space. It messes up the art and the style of their games in general. And I'm guessing that's why. It's because they have that footprint for where the screen would normally go. And so they're like, we can't work it. Hell yeah, they're using the same panel. They're like, fuck. But, you know, at $20,000, I'm kind of like, yeah, maybe do an entirely different, you know, build the reels in into the glass like they used to. Yeah, I could. I mean, again, it's an aesthetic thing. It wouldn't. Those things aren't like major factors for me, but. Yeah, I could. I could definitely see that as well. I'm so surprised they went real here with the reel. I'm guessing it was a licensor insistence. And speaking of that, I mean, different features. This game does have a lot in it. They do have 20,000. Oh, fuck. Now, I know that. An EM reel, four opto spinners, a spinning disc, ten drop targets, play-filled LCD embedded into it, two pop bumpers, captive ball, two saucers, and everybody right now, oh, because saucers are made. I'm not saying that. I'm saying when you look down and you don't see plastic ramps, a lot of people are like, wait a minute, this game is barren. It's not. I don't think it is. Now, do I think this game costs more than their typical cornerstones? Nope. I don't think so. I don't think so at all. But I think it does have a lot of mechanical stuff in it. Why don't they integrate? American Pinball is the only smart person to integrate that knocker more in games. Why don't they do that? Do you really want to hear that chirp, that stern chirp all the time? No, I don't want the stern chirp. Then don't ask for things you don't want. I think Spooky Pinball actually does that now, too. I've been harping on that for years. People are finally listening. They use it in Halloween, I think. You're using it in Scooby-Doo for more than just your match. If you're selling these games predominantly, we heard it from a recent video from the new CEO, Seth Davis, over at Stern Pinball, saying the majority of their games, their products now, that's why they're at CES, is it's consumer product. It's going into homes. Why are we still giving so much weight to locations? It's still a significant percentage for them. Sure. But if we're going to use a coil just to say if you get a free game or not? But they don't. They have an audio chirp. I'm not saying in general.
    26:25
    They're still being made by American Pinball, by Spooky Pinball, by Jersey Jack Pinball. It's the same thing like, why do we still have the back box? You don't really need it. You don't need it. But my point is, that's fine. Use it as tradition, but expand upon it. It's tradition. Evolve it. Use it for stuff.
    26:44
    Keith, no ding-dings. Makes a Zach sad. Ding-a-ding-ding-ding-ding. Are you bothered by synthetic dings? Yeah, no, I'm not super bothered with that. My Buck Rogers can be switched, I believe, between the digital chimes and the more beep-be-boop-loop style, like actually playing something more intricate. That's a generous statement. But that said, if I have to pick between the two, I side against the digital chimes. I do as well. I'd forgotten that Sinbad has real chimes in it But they can make it sound good though Think of the spinners in like Godzilla Think of the spinners in Deadpool Like they can make it They can chime it up But still not as good The rules we don't know much about the rules Besides they described it as physically It's more a nostalgic classic Kickback But integration wise Rules wise code wise it's more of a modern game So we're not playing for special here I don't believe so That would have been another use for the knocker Yes Who doesn't love just big old knockers? Come on Some people get scared by them Look, I've never met a knocker I'm scared of They do scare me sometimes Oh shit, what was that? I still get people, the chirp They think something's malfunctioning in their game Like new pinball buyers so every once in a while it does this like screech thing where i don't know if it's like a bad speaker i'm like no that's oh remember when they walk into the settings when they put on that random scream and ghostbusters love that oh people hate it love that scares so many children hey dwight we call that a moment nicely done my friend dwight understands moments pinball moments that was one of them but yes it it actually probably has killed somebody that's the definition of success but you know art does require sacrifice it does you know what uh being a pioneer sometimes sacrifices after oh pioneer reminds me of frontier i hope that he found a mode to stick in crickets into this uh let's talk about this exclusive topper that everybody's do we have to oh my god oh man people Oh, people are so angry. There's videos. I understand being angry. There's streams. There's podcasts. How dare Stern lie to us? Stern Pinball lied to you people. They did? I don't know. They lied. I don't even know because I don't know enough about this. Basically, when I guess the promo video came out of 60th anniversary, it said, Exclusive 007 topper. And people assumed that meant, okay, it does come with a topper, which is badass, by the way. I like that games come with toppers when that happens. But it came with a topper for $20,000. But they thought, okay, no, that was just for the 60th anniversary topper. So when it was recently announced this last week that Stern Pinball will be selling these 007 toppers, the same ones for the Cornerstone, people were like, wait a cotton pick a minute. You told us that they were exclusive. So they should be exclusive to the $20,000 game. and they shouldn't have some shithead be able to put it on his pro. It's not fair. If they said exclusive in the trailer for the 60th, yeah, I could see where people would think that. The term used was exclusive. Okay, I could see where people would think it. Stern Pinball came out with a formal announcement to dealers, and whatever dealer is leaking and sharing information from Stern to the public, like, good on you, buddy, because what an idiot move. But somebody shared the actual dealer email, balls on these people, coming from executives at CERN saying, hey, there's some confusion here. We said exclusive in the promo trailer. We're talking about 007, like an exclusive 007 licensed topper. But people are getting it mixed up and saying that they thought it was just for the 60th anniversary. We're not looking to make two types of toppers here. So people are kind of salty about that. I can see why they're salty about it. Yeah, no, I get it. I don't know if it was a mistake or not. I will say it was, to call it exclusive. That was a mistake to have done in that trailer. If it's not exclusive to that model, the confusion should have been, they should have caught it as a potential point of confusion. Yes. And then just said, comes with topper.
    31:25
    Or comes with limited edition topper. You can even then possibly – well, if it was available – well, you're right because they're going to sell them. They're not just putting them on the Gomez LEs as well. That would have been confusing too, so my language would be bad. I don't think that the way it's been narrated here is that Stern is trying to pull one over. I think if anything, it was more an oversight than it was a we're trying to tricksy people here. I think it just sounds like they made a mistake in their trailer. and didn't use good language. Yeah, so I think at the worst, that's probably what it was. I am happy. I'm assuming they always planned to sell some. I don't think they just changed their minds all of a sudden. I think the issue is with the announcement trailer. When I seen that topper, it doesn't look like a super complex topper. It does have full RGB coding and stuff that visually is going to be very stunning and interactive. But when I saw that topper on the 60th, I thought, I hope that would make sense for them to use that for the cornerstone as well, especially because all of these licensing issues, they're not going to try to get another topper approved, Jesus. So they did announce that they are going to produce these. MSRP on them is going to be $9.99.
    32:43
    So $1,000 for the topper. I do like that they are telling dealers, and I'm going to tell you, they're not making this an LE product or an exclusive to my knowledge but their plan is to produce 500 additional units for these Cornerstone games so there is a large likelihood that it will be limited to 1000 units that is 500 for the L1SLE and 500 between the Cornerstones they're not saying that they won't go back and make some ever again It's not like you get one of 1,000, but they are saying that's kind of their plan is just to run 500 of them and move on.
    33:32
    Interesting? Exclusive. It is, but the topper I don't think looks very interesting. I can't believe you didn't like it. I thought it looked sleek. No, no. It's not ugly or anything, but it's kind of at the point now where if it's not an animated topper, mechanically animated, I wouldn't do it for a thousand. Or at least kind of technological, like the Mandalorian topper. No, it's clean. It's clean, but I'd probably get my third-party 006 topper instead. Oh, no. Wait, wait, 009. Was 009 the one who was dressed up as the clown in Octopussy? I don't remember. They're plenty of 00s. They're plenty of 00s we could inspire by. So that's the exclusive topper debate, topper gate there, that people are worried about. I get it. But then again, I'm going to get it. So a lot of Stern Pinball. Craig Bobby's predicting very big changes coming to Stern Pinball over the next year or two. He's putting himself out there. He says he believes the possibility. You've got a new CEO. You've got Gary Stern stepping down. You've got all of these changes happening. He says he could see the possibility of the company being sold in its entirety.
    34:45
    Can you, Dennis? Yes, there have been a few things. Decisions that they've been making over the last few years have been in line with strategies that have been done in other companies to maybe rapidly increase potential valuation.
    35:01
    Plans to make a new big old manufacturing plant with a Stern store attached to it? I don't know. I mean, it would really come down to who the buyer, you know, if there's a buyer, what the buyer wants to do with it. I mean, you'd assume they would still want to do pinball, but that would explain why we've seen above the rate of inflation, recent price increases and some of these other strategies trying out these things like bond 60th and stuff, though. I still believe more the rumor that that's driven by by license or request more so than any particular strategy. But just a few other things that they've been doing as well seem to be in line with trying to increase what the potential assessment was. Well, just how much is Stern Pinball making? How much is it worth? I think they've done some things recently to try and up that value in fairly short term, fairly quick speed. I agree with that.
    35:52
    Yeah. I don't know. I could see them doing a cash out here. So you might be on to something, Craig. But just because they might be thinking – I mean that's more like unless they're already in negotiations, you still have to find a buyer. And ultimately, I don't have to be selfish here, but ultimately, do I think that that would inherently affect me as a collector or a consumer? I don't think so.
    36:17
    I mean, you know, technically Stern was owned by Sega, and then it was before that owned by Data East, and then Gary bought it from them. Yeah. So, no, there's not. I wouldn't. You know, what would be a bigger concern from a collector standpoint would be if they took it public. because then you get the – that's when I think you get people getting a little nervous like if there's a downturn. Because with Williams, it's like we got to appease the shareholders, and we got our fingers in a lot of pies, and pinball is not the most profitable one our finger is in anymore. But that being said – Where did that whole thing come from? Sticking your fingers in pies? That's not the most ornery thing I've ever heard of. I don't know the origins of the expression. It's commonplace. I don't know the origins of it. A giggle. Sliding two fingers into a warm pot. But as a podcaster, I'd actually love for Stern to be public because I would finally once and for all like to know what the production counts are again. Oh, yes. It just irks me that they shield that from us.
    37:22
    They told you they're having 560th anniversaries. Isn't that not good enough for you? No. Once a game is no longer in production, tell us the counts. It doesn't matter anymore. It's okay for us to know how many avatars there are. I like how Craig Bobby, he said something about, he's like, why not JJP buying this billionaire saying hell? Why not? Then you can guarantee you got the full market share. Really playing your sandbox there, Abbas family.
    37:49
    Oh, my God. How fucked up would that be? Wow. I'm picturing this. That's right. So JJP can run Godfather while Stern runs Gone with the Wind. It's one of the greatest choices for him of all time.
    38:06
    Craig Bobby also speaks to the lack of Stern competition in the industry and said that in addition to current rumors, he's still claiming that we're going to see a Stern Back to the Future and a Stern Harry Potter in the company's future catalog. Wow, Craig Bobby. I hope you're right, my friend. I don't think the Back to the Future is a very cutting-edge prediction. This has been – Harry Potter – Honestly, I'm still not hearing it, people. Maybe they're shielding it from me. I'm not hearing it. I just hear people want it. I just hear it. So it's sort of like it's on the obvious list. Like any – and they all – like even American pinball and their like we don't really like licenses.
    38:45
    If they could have Harry Potter, would have Harry Potter. um the only thing is you know and again because i have i've had a few people write to me and say dennis can you like give me the citation where uh jk rawlings has said like she won't support pinball or something as and i don't i've only ever just heard it like second hand um that said her reputation has gone in the bin so severely now if she's somehow like hurting for money at this point because people are boycotting everything that's got the whole she's never I don't think so either. That's the one scenario where I could see her maybe compromising if it's like a moral issue for her. And again, I guess for those that are newly hearing about all of this and they're probably like, what the heck is Dennis talking about? There is a rumor that has been around for years that J.K. Rowling is the creator of Harry Potter, who purportedly controls the rights to Harry Potter, has refused to consider licenses for things like pinball. Not because she hates pinball as a game, but pinball is something that shows up in bars, and she doesn't want things that kids like to attract them to go into bars because I guess they'll become alcoholics or something following the thread to its conclusion. So because pinball could be routed in locations that she does not approve of children being in, she will not support pinball – Harry Potter being on it. Because I've heard people say, well, there's like Harry Potter slot machines. It's like, well, yeah, but they're in a place that prohibits kids is like the counter argument. So, yeah, but we can make pinball machines that aren't allowed to be touched by children. I don't care whether it's – all I care about is whether or not it's true, but I don't care enough to look because no one's got Harry Potter. And honestly, if we were going to do Harry Potter, it should have been done years ago.
    40:35
    Like if it was easy to do, it would have been done years ago because there was plenty of time. At the very least, when the Fantastic Beasts was coming out, it would have been a great time to go ahead and announce your Harry Potter pinball, and it didn't happen. They'll be squeezing that Harry Potter fruit for decades to come. So my point is, though, I don't think there's anyone who's sitting on the license. It would have been out by now if the license had been secured in a reasonable fashion. So either the pricing is an obstacle, these rumors are true, and J.K. Rowling won't budge on her stance about pinball machines for whatever the reason is, or some other confounding factor that we're not aware of is keeping it out. Like she just hard to get any license deals with which is kind of like what the Beatles was So anyway I skeptical about Craig He disguises he a master of disguise I know Dana Carvey of pinball He turtley Yeah and even using his terrible turtle rage I just don know if that one is true But we will have to wait and see. And to the counterpoint here, I talk to a lot of people. And I know a lot of licenses are coming out that many of you would love to know. And Back to the Future, even though it's my dream, is one that I'm still told by people is too restrictive and too cost prohibitive to ever come to the pinball industry. That's what I'm told by people who would know. But as part of pinball bounty, people can get you a minty Daddy East? No, they can't. Back to the Future. That piece of shit can be thrown off a bridge into the East River. I No Abomination of a theme there If it can happen once Why can't it happen again? We can get it to work That's right, we could have Potato Face Marty and That's what you want Not what I want all assets, all licensed assets I want it all Don't give me anything less, people I don't want Biff only With his nubby fingers I don't want that So if that's what you're going to do, hold off Keith Elwin. Why don't you make like a tree, Zach, and get out of here. Oh, that is so good. Made my daughter watch Back to the Future 2 this last weekend.
    42:49
    You're about as useful of a dealer as a screen door on a battleship. So good. Mom, you're so big. Spooky pinball in the news. In a big way, they added a new hire, Scott Einz, I believe it's Einz, to voice many of the Scooby-Doo game villains and potentially more in the future. This individual is known in the different industries for voicing Scooby-Doo and Shaggy and a lot of these voice characters. So congratulations to Spooky Pinball for adding more talent. It's always a good thing, right? Yep, it's exciting. And courtesy of NAP Arcade, information out there that indicates that early production has now begun on Scooby-Doo Pinball by Spooky Pinball. Congratulations. I saw the pictures. They're all lined up. I'm like, shit, that is a lot of games. Yeah, no. I do have to say, though, that when I saw that announcement of it, my favorite thing was the photo that I saw. Maybe it was in a different article, actually, as I'm scrolling. It must have been a different article. I saw one where, like, three of them are all around one play field putting posts in. Oh, it's on the thing you're going to mention next. And I'm like, I saw someone comment, does it really take three people to put posts in a game? But, well, you know. I think it was set up for just as a good photo. Yeah, it's a photo op. It's a team over there at Spooks. Come on. Yeah. But anyway. Also, as you said, Percy of Nap Arcade, more information, news about Spooky Pinball. They're looking to double their manufacturing facility size by adding a 12,000-square-foot building across the road from their current facility. That's cool. So, yeah, you were talking about that being that picture. Yeah, that's in the picture. They're showing a lot of the manufacturing. But I do think it's important to note, as you said, the description. It's about doubling the size of the facility. They are, at this time, they indicate they are not planning to expand staff size. So this is really more about being able to house more things. Yeah, it's either about stinkier people, that they want to spread out people a little bit better, or, yeah, that maybe in the future they don't want to be crammed. Yeah, it sounds like their current building, the plan is that's going to be more for storage and as an inventory hub and keep it sort of separate from the manufacturer. side. Yeah, that makes sense as well. I like it. We can't have a pinball show without really diving deep into competitive pinball, Dennis. You know, the item that you've built your entire expertise and reputation around. Yeah. The one in which actually makes competitive people some of the greatest in the world historically change their minds about how we view competitive pinball and the thing that they are so crafted within. you're welcome people competitive pinball let's dive deep because you know what maybe arguably the greatest pinball tournament of the last couple years I thought you said it off of this epic thing of the last two years ever since Pop-Up has fallen into shadow and flame has one risen above it all like a phoenix baby it's in this 2023 That's its wings Hosted by That's a fire that's tracing its tail That's right Out of the dirt IE Pinball Is hosting I think they're hosting it It's happening in Southern California This past weekend It's happening right now as we're recording But because we aired this on Monday It happened this past weekend It's difficult to describe So we don't really know the winners much We know the Open, the IFPA World Championships occur at this place As well as it being the first event of this year I think for the Stern Pro Circuit Tour Kicks off the tour, I believe Well, that makes sense I mean, we are the first 15 days in January And if that's wrong I don't know what to tell you people This is about how much time we designate to competitive pinball But it's important because it is the big boy It's the big boy of the year It's InDisc It never drains in Southern California Rising Phoenix again I can see a Phoenix That should be their mascot Instead of Flippy Or whoever like Chicago Lake No they had a mascot I don't think they do Damn it But it needs to be the Phoenix Maybe they could Because it's in California Maybe they could take the bear From the California flag But have it like Look like it's playing A pinball machine Yeah Phoenix Fire Forest fire Yeah probably not a good No It needs to be Smokey the Bear only you can prevent these wildfires. Yeah, I think that's better. Maybe a bear coming on fire.
    47:34
    Yogi, they need a mascot. I don't like X-Bow. It's me, Flippy. Is that X-Bow's? I can barely walk around.
    47:45
    I've got human arms. Who spent money on that? Why? So stupid. look like an erect penis walking around. They're never in that orientation vertically up unless you're playing Monopoly. And even at that pace, it's only for a short amount of time. Maybe it's inspired by the Gottlieb System 3 flippers. Just think, if you turn me around, it'd be really phallic. I get it, but come on, flippy. I want to flip that son of a bitch over on the ground.
    48:19
    See if you can get up. I just see you knocking him over. I hear you saying happy birthday to the ground and then he's like how do I get that cup and you just go figure it out fuck you flippy I don't know why he angers me so it's because it needs to be the phoenix pinball expo change that thing to the pinball phoenix let's really dip into controversy and drama why not We're already in it. The Bond stuff seemed pretty salty. By harming poor mascots. Let's jump into pinball awards season. It's a staple over here at the pinball show. Well, the Twippies are happening here in a couple months. I think voting is – is voting over for the Twippies? It's got to be close. I think when this airs, it ends. Isn't the 16th it ends? I don't remember. A little controversy this last week with the Twippies. and that I think came out of TPN's final round pinball podcast if I had to guess oh I know what you're talking about now yes I did hear this episode this was a most unfortunate happening kind of sucked for everybody involved everybody in general but Martin Robbins who did coding for Fathom Revisited by Haggis Pinball brought up on his podcast he's like you know at the end of the day you know award shows whatever but it was It's kind of sad to see that Fathom Revisited was not included as one being nominated for anything from the Twippies this year. A snub, a full snub, almost as if knocking down Flippy and pissing on him. That's what it felt like to Martin Robbins, I would have assumed. Yeah, I don't remember him mentioning Flippy. He didn't talk about Flippy, but I just pictured a physical representation of the Twippies knocking over the Haggis Flippies. Oh, so now the Twippies are harassing Flippy. Yeah. They just pissed on Haggis Pinball and said Australia is not real.
    50:23
    Oh, my God. So mean. This is so mean. So I heard Martin going off, but I was like, oh, damn. Okay, I didn't know this because I did not vote in the Twippies. I didn't either. But I figured it was like a thing where if the Twippies didn't include Fathom Revisited, that's because they included the year prior or the year going forward. It was announced in 2021. Yes. So I could see that. But then I thought, well, they're big as the Pinball Wars are on. When did it ship? When did it start? That was this year.
    50:57
    But no, the Twippies came out. Will Odding came out, I think publicly, and made a statement and said, yeah, we fucked up. We totally forgot about Fathom Revisited and Haggis, Pinball, and Jero. So we don't know what the fuck to do either. We could either include you on the couple days left of voting, not going to help, or we can include you next year, which kind of fucks up the objectivity of everything. They just – they noted, which I respect, they noted that they made a mistake. Mistakes happen. So what do you do in that situation? I think they're going to end up putting it into this year's category.
    51:34
    But, yeah, that's a – we know how it is running an awards show. Like, bad stuff can happen. bad stuff ends up happening. It sucks. I have to say, I do actually, I really feel for Will in this scenario because working on both the pinball industry, well now the pinball awards, but the pinball industry awards the prior two years and then the work this year, this is probably my number one fear. Yep. Is leaving off a game because you know that it's... It's a big deal. And also... It tarnishes everything. It does. It's because legitimately – like again, taking the pinball words as an example, because we've done like a January 1st to December 1st as your ship period. Technically, we would violate our own rules if we were to put the game into a future year. But likewise, obviously, it's a little different for us because we don't do it the same way as – like we're not a people's choice vote. But if you let a bunch of people vote a ballot in any scenario And then at the very end, you add something back in. Most people aren't going to go back and revote to maybe make a difference. I like that there's an option that they can.
    52:50
    That's good. Yeah, yeah. No, they're trying to – I mean they're doing the best that they can to fix a mistake. So yeah, no. So, yeah, hearing about this, I really – I felt bad for both involved – both the Twippies and Haggis, I should say, because obviously Haggis feels slighted by that they – it's like they weren't even the – they weren't even like the smallest shipper out, right? Like Super Hoop got less games. Spinal Tap got less games. This is a significant game. And in our part, I remember when we were in our planning phases, you specifically kept asking, what is the game list? What is the game list? Are we sure we have every game in the game list? And we had two in-person on Zoom meetings with our governance committee, and a lot of the time on both of those was going over, all right, what do we have in the game? Because our first ballot didn't have all the games. It's not always clear-cut either. Yeah, and that was a big thing. Like we were debating Spinal Tap, for example. For a couple of days, I finally found a Pennside post where the Pinball Hall of Fame had said, we have received Fathom. It is here at the end. We're like, okay, it counts then.
    54:01
    I don't know how many they shipped, but I wasn't even sure if any Australians had it yet or not. But it's like, okay, I have confirmation that someone has said they have gotten this game.
    54:10
    Oh, we've got four of them by now. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just sort of like that. And so we knew – like Fathom was an easy one for us. We had a risk of not remembering Super Hoop because it was announced in January, and then their factory caught on fire. So, again, I was able to find confirmation of a recipient who got one. Spinal tap was tough. Multimorphic little third-party games sometimes are tough. Like, there's just so much going on. So, yeah, I mean, it's like – it's sort of like the – most of the complaints or issues that anyone will have with any award show is they won't like your voting methodology or structure. So, you know, sort of systemic structural things that you can adjust that don't need to be, quote-unquote, fixed in a given year. At some point you've said this is what the criteria is and we move forward.
    54:57
    But this is a genie that doesn't go back into the bottle. Nope, that's a big fuck up. I think they would agree on that. We'd agree on that.
    55:06
    If I played armchair quarterback here, Dennis, and actually it wouldn't be armchair quarterback. It would just be a quarterback of a different team. I would have not given Haggis the option of choosing when it was. I would have made the executive decision within a group or I would have pitched it to the group and hope that the group made the decision to put it towards 2023. That's not a fix, but it sure as hell, in my opinion, is a better representation of a fix than adding it at the ass into 2022. That really, in my opinion, messes up everything because, I mean, it just fucked up everything. So I don't know why they chose that. But to each their own. That's why different awards are different. But that's yeah, I'm with you. I feel for that because there's mistakes that we're going to make every year too. It sucks. But, hey, we're just trying to celebrate, right? Yeah. It's just, you know, it's unfortunate that it happened.
    56:02
    Man, I'm sweating thinking about that happening to us. The Pinball Awards voting is now closed. Yes. Open. Our mistakes are sealed in stone at this stage. Left our window open for just a little bit. Yeah. Just a little bit. But assuming we don't just chuck it all and give it all up after this year, Zach, let's have – We could. Who knows? Yeah, who knows? We have to see. Manufacturers, let us know if you like awards. That's right.
    56:29
    We had some – we had a pretty big change with adding the public component this year. And just that combined with other just sort of unplanned mitigating factors like your back surgery and stuff, we had – This was the tightest voting window and application window we've ever had, which was – I mean we still – It actually worked really well. Our judge count grew a little bit, and of course the public result was – I didn't know what to expect. It was over 100, so I was like, okay, good.
    57:01
    But that would be the one thing so far. I'm like, I wish we could just be a little – at least with the – the voting period being short, I don't think it's a big deal given our structure. But the period to apply to be a judge, I wish we were – we would have been able to add another week to it. I think we could have done a little bit better, at least on the public side. I think we could have. We can do that in the future, yeah. But we're just so tight for time. I'm really proud of our representation of the public vote too, the ones that did vote. I'm confident in those. So that's good. I like it all. I haven't went through and dove into the results quite yet. I know that you guys have painstakingly a lot of – we have a really good team over at the Pinball Awards, and people really, really care. So everybody is looking at every detail, and I'm proud that there is a team that is willing to do that. Yeah, I actually – I guess not much of a spoiler to people, but the tallies are done.
    57:56
    I actually yesterday got done reviewing the math of someone. We carved it up into chunks, so I worked on the game award results, the public and judges. and then the labor was carved up. Someone else took lead on the Hall of Fame. Two other people were working on the Excellence Awards because those are write-ins. So that process had to be, you had to tally them up and figure out different spellings and stuff and all of that. And those were all merged together and then we check each other's work is the idea. So because we have multiple people that have access to the raw results. Raw results get uploaded to the whole team. The whole team carves up what they want to work on and then they can go back and look and review and make sure no one else screwed up. Because math can be hard. Numbers may not lie, but math can be a little tricky. And this, of course, was the first time where we had to make sure we added in the public, but it was a 10% factor, so you had to figure out, make sure you multiply your judges by nine and all this sort of stuff. I know how competitive people feel now. Nobody wants to hear about awards pinball. No, no.
    59:00
    It's just like every year when we get to it, And I'm just like, afterwards, I'm like, gosh, this was a lot. Time makes you start to forget just how much work it was. But it really was a lot of work. Let's hope this year is just a really awesome party. So selfishly, regardless, we're just happy. We had a blast and we rewarded people and, yeah, we did our part. Yay. Our small little part. There's all kinds of awards going on in pinball each and every year. Yeah. And what do they say? Flattery is the best.
    59:31
    Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. It is the best, yeah. Thank you for reminding me. So mark your calendars. January 28th, people. Damn it, do it now. And if you would love, just to love, we should do like a video thing for Batman 66 SLA to get that. If you want a VIP ticket, if you want to be invited, you want to come down here to southern Indiana and just party your ass off and have fun with some of the people that create pinball, whether it's in media or actually coding or I don't know who in the hell is coming to this thing, email us at the pinball network at gmail.com and give us a pitch as to why you're crazy enough to come hang out with us just a word of wise don't be too crazy risky enough for people to come over come on keep the keep the nuttiness at the door y'all listener last week you came for the meat you came for the potatoes you came for the ice cream sundae the other podcast may give you a secondhand high, but this Pinball segment crushes it up and takes it right up the nose with Pinball Market Trends!
    60:40
    Wow! Trending out this week is Stern Pinball's Guardians of the Galaxy. Recently discontinued and thinning out virtually from every dealer's inventory. Now's the time that you're going to start seeing a title such as this that becomes harder and harder to get your hands on. LEs were always tough. Premiums, too. Secondary prices on those games. You're not going to get a premium under $10,000. Bubbly Bow what? And if you're good with the Pro, jump on that right now because the price of Guardians of the Galaxy Pro, while right now at MSRP, even on the secondary market, they're going to keep going up. Got another Jurassic Park, Godzilla, Metallica, Stranger Things. I'm telling you people, the theme is still hot. final movie coming out, tried and true John Borg layout, beautiful artwork by Christopher Franchi, a Cleland code that fixes so much, a topper that people are spending over $3,000 on, get your hands on a Guardians of the Galaxy Pro, or pay $1,000 or two more in six months. See if I care. Also training up this week is Trade-Ins.
    61:50
    Another podcaster recently said, it was like a conspiracy theory. What you going to see is dealer wait for it they gonna sell used games dealers always sell used games nothing odd about that i think what people are referencing is more people are actually trading in games lately than than they have in the past that's true and as a dealer i'm open to taking in trade-ins and sometimes selfishly i took in a i took in recently a fun house and just kind of selfishly wanted to play I just wanted to get my fix. And sometimes I'm just helping customers too, lateral trade. But trade-ins, you guys have been trading in a lot of games to dealers lately. I see it. I feel it. There's nothing wrong with that. We can move around used games just like we can new ones. And every used game started new somewhere. And although there has been a softening of the market, trade-ins have been doing fairly well value-wise. Hell, we got a Tales of the Arabian Nights. I went to look at comps to sell that thing. Whoa, you guys are paying a lot of money for Totem. You don't even care the conditions. I had a nice one. I'm like, okay, I'll probably get this for it. And I went and looked at comps. I was like, whoa, never mind. I'm going to get more than that. All's trending up this week. Apparently toppers. You guys really like focusing on this James Bond 007 exclusive topper. Limited to 1,000. Or is it? So if you focus on it, numbers don't lie. It's a trend. I've got to report it. And besides, if many of you did not catch the holiday little quick reel video by Stern Pimble, I think it was on Facebook. They went through the holiday Throughout the factory real quick And if you looked for a slight second Probably missed it But on one of the wiring diagrams It said Rush Topper The workers were working on the wiring diagram Of Rush Topper So it's coming people It's got to be coming quick If they already have it up on the wiring platform Boom it's coming Tick tock tick tock tick tock That's your clue It's coming And hell let's go all in Training up this week is accessories Pinball accessories And in general Stern pinball because people know how to do it. When it comes to accessories, between toppers and armor that's hard to get, shooter rubs, hell, even shaker motors. I don't know if you guys are just holding out, but what's a guy got to do to get some shaker motors in stock? Everybody's shitting on FOMO over here. Man, this accessories business is going to keep FOMO alive. It's all about the ELS, baby. Y'all know what I'm talking about. Stern Expression Lighting System. Why have you forsaken us on our Rush pinball machines? Are only the LE owners worthy of your bona fide HIT lighting system that's integrated so well into each song and component of your Russian Led Zeppelin games? Many people think a Led Zeppelin without expression lighting system is a deal breaker. That's how important accessories are.
    64:41
    Now look, don't get me started on the inability to build and ship these things store and pinball production and accessories department, you're not trending up. It's just the development and ideas and sales of these always trending up in my books. Exclusive or not. Let's put this Phoenix out a little bit, though, this week on Pinball Market Trends by trending down a collectible pinball machine called the Big Lebowski. Oh, all of you pinball lovers out there and dudes out there, collectors out there that love the Big Lebowski, I do, too. A little controversy lately, though, is some of the Merco playfields on these Big Lebowskis have been... Uh-oh.
    65:20
    Pulling. Rippling. Chipping. No! Is it overblown? I don't know. Is it affecting the secondary market and the primary market sales-wise on the Big Lebowski? You betcha! Numbers don't lie. I'm just here to report the facts. Over the last couple weeks, people have been talking about potential playfield issues of these games. Now you're getting questions whenever you're going to resell one of these things. Well, when was it made? Can you send me pictures? Does it have the washer fixes? Where, what it? Oh, no. And don't tell me I'm out of my element. Go to the forums and see for yourself. News like this affects the marketplace. Also trending down this week is the new agenda of,
    66:00
    oh, fuckers think they're so clever. Instead of buy, buy, buy, it's why, why, why. No, no, it's not that. That's so last week. this week instead of bye bye bye it's cry cry cry instead of bye now it's cry now you see what i did there i'm telling you right now i mean when i say it whiny podcasters they don't want you to hear this sometimes we need to stop ourselves and just question do we want to enjoy pinball or do we want to cry, cry, cry. Listen, y'all. Making claims that are simply just not factual just for the sake of controversy and doing so during a full-blown emotional meltdown, all while knowing that your negativity is breeding toxicity in the name of what you call truth?
    66:51
    Whatever happened to actual truth? For some people, truth is nothing more than just guessing really loudly and obnoxiously. and then waiting for people to defend their character that you are attempting to compromise by actually reporting fact from fiction to look out for themselves, to protect their livelihoods. I got to tell you, being right 10% of the time is nothing to be proud of. The next JJP game is coming on February 20th. Oh, God. I want everybody to write that one down. They don't want you to hear this. They want you to play a game before purchasing a pinball machine. Well, no shit. Who's arguing that? Only a focused narrative is. They're all conspiracies. It's all connected. Mind manipulation. Or maybe, just maybe, it's all bullshit.
    67:42
    Maybe some of these assholes are winking at people like us that see through it and making you that feed into it look like idiots. And along these lines, trending down is lazy pinball media. Oh, guys, guys, guys. It's the Canadians of the world. It's the Kerry Hardys of the world. I just feel like a lot of the content coming is lazy. Be better as pinball media. I know you want those clicks, but why does it have to come with lack of original thoughts? No balance whatsoever on what you actually believe.
    68:15
    Analysis, for God's sake. How about some analysis? No, no. It's only negativity. It's only drama. Got to get those clicks. How can I be negative? How can I infuse so much drama to spoon feed these people that need this toxicity the most? How about meaningful content with actual thought in real takes? Hell yes. Fucking novel, isn't it? Some of you may want to shit on me, but look at the episode today. Look at the episode a couple weeks ago and every episode in between. You're going to hear the good from me. You're going to hear the bad from me. But I'm going to keep it real and I'm not going to be just on one side or the other because nothing in life is like that. And if it is, then people are just taking advantage of you. Whether it's for the pissy little Patreon dollars that makes them feel better, or whether it's for the clicks. They're feeding you what you want to hear rather than what they really believe. To those pinball media who are creating lazy content, stop being the puppet. Stop being the mouthpiece to which you think that the public wants. It's cheap, it's lazy, and it's not fooling a lot of us. Quick reaction. Everything is shit. Everything is a conspiracy. everything's too expensive they're trying to screw you don't buy anything this is just the man trying to bring you down oh for fuck's sake and i'll give people like carrie hardy some credit for when he does you know some spoof videos or he adds some editing to his stuff i get that but for the other things that he or other pinball providers do that is just a quick reactionary thing to get these clicks you're better than that people put in the effort that's how you gain respect so the Next time you watch a video that is 100% one way or the other, roll your eyes and find a better media creator. And along those lines, I've got to trend this down. This is a first for me. This is a first. And I think indirectly it comes from a lot of this pitchfork anger reactivity, somebody feeding anger for you, right? Everything's so expensive. So they create this army to do dirty work for them. The first time this has ever happened since I've been in business in pinball, I actually received with this release of Bond 60th anniversary. I received people taking time out of their days to call me and troll me or message me as a troll in my business for orders on this Bond 60th. First time it's ever happened. And I was naive to think it wouldn't happen by now, I guess. legit people contacting me asking me if i have any spots left for 60th anniversary and then if i said yeah we we've got a spot left and then they respond with oh i thought you said they were gonna sell these out oh oh twenty thousand dollars wow this thing looks like it's only worth ten oh do you really not have anything better to do i'd somebody contact me and order one They ordered a pinball machine As a trolling effort I said to not Cracked me up Ordering it Sending in the invoice The next day they sent something back Oh, guess I won't be buying this You thought I was going to buy it, huh? Oh, that's a riot Hilarious Man We got a Richard Pryor over here People, if that's you Get a life And if you don't think Some of this toxicity is bread Then open your eyes Open your ears And be decent Be decent human beings be decent pinheads i never thought it would come to the point of people artificially lying to me to rub in lack of a sale or to hold a limited edition product to hold a spot of a limited product in order to harm me the next what what are we doing people don't affect people's livelihoods oh okay and as always people straight to the vein rushes up your spine and you feel it tingling behind your nose. I'm not here to provide you the rush that you get. I'm not here to be your market pusher. I am simply here, as always, reporting the facts because numbers don't lie, and neither do I on Pinball Market Tricks.
    72:16
    Alright, Dennis, can you say bye to people? Tell them where they can chat with you or reach out to you or give you money for Patreon?
    72:24
    Yeah, they can always contact me, eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com and the patreon is patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers yeah that's really nice come on people open up those piggy banks for all of you who are not buying a 60th anniversary bond that's sad enough lend a hand lend a buck lend a five dollar lend a tenner every month to the eclectic gamers podcast maybe in the future the pinball show i don't you can find me at the pinball network at gmail.com watch our videos over a street down the middle that's fun too and uh buy something from flipping out pinball bye bye bye bye that'd be greatly appreciated product showcase this week is um kind of an announcement dennis i don't know if i've told you this but we are now authorized dealers for a company called retro arcade No, I didn't know about that. Yeah, Resro Arcade is a company that just came out, and they have the licensed rights to remake here in the future Ice Cold Beer Arcade. You know Ice Cold Beer? Yes, yes, I do know that. With the rod and the ball and the holes.
    73:32
    Everybody loves that physical game. And pre-orders are available now at FlippinOutPinball.com. I think they're looking. We put an order in. I think they're looking to start producing the first batch in the springtime here, February through April. So get yours ordered now. I think the total price on one of those, I think it's like five grand or something. So it's not as much as a overpriced $20,000 pinball machine. So ice cold beer remake. Damn it. That's awesome. Can't wait to put one. If you've got a big pinball collection, you know, entertain some people with an ice cold beer. Both the liquid version and the mechanical version. We also have alien. I think I have more alien LVs coming in. I think we have one in stock. We do have a couple SVs we just got back in stock. Aliens are selling well. Nicely done, Pinball Brothers. James Bond 007 Pro and Premium. Still taking pre-orders on those, I believe. We might have spots for the next pro run. I think that's happening here this month. Taking orders also for Elwynn's 60th anniversary. You mean they didn't sell out? What a failure. No, they didn't sell. Well, they sold out, and then they didn't sell out, and then they sold. I've got three left, I believe. Three. So get it. Jurassic Park Home Editions. They're ready to go. Star Wars Home Edition from the most expensive to the most affordable. We've got everything at Flippin' Out Pinball. Oktoberfest Deluxe in stock. Toy Stories, Ellie, and CE in stock. Find a prettier game than that. Halloween Ultraman New Inbox in stock. I still have a couple spots for Scooby-Doo. Ruby Woo? That's right. A lot of pre-owned games. Dennis, you see all the pre-owned games I've been getting in? I mean, I see them in this list. Yeah. Don't even follow us on Facebook, son of a... I do. Look at all the pictures. I'm busy. I've got to read other stuff. Police force? What about police force? What do you know about police force? Furry cops. That's right.
    75:23
    Exploit that center ramp. Just wait until ball three. Fireball EM? You have to admit, that's a damn cool game. What other EM has like multi-ball, spinning disc, kickback, physical ball locks? Come on. Cool game. We've got that in stock. Funhouse? Fully restored Funhouse? Don't pop up too often. I've got the juicy. See, I got the goods over here at Flippin' Out Pinball. You got to follow, like, and subscribe to Facebook, though, if you want all these wonderful, wonderful hot pinball titles like The Hobbit. I got Turtles Pro Premium. We got Mandalorian Pro Premium. We got Rush Pro. We've got Star Wars Pro Premium. We got Led Zeppelin. If you want a pinball machine, come to us today. Accessories, everything, except for Stern Shakers. I'm still waiting for that. I want to give a special shout-out and thoughts, prayers to the Cincinnati group. I love everyone over at Cincinnati. You guys have a nice, close-knit community over there, and you guys lost somebody really important to you a week or two ago. His name is Mark Combs, and I knew Mark. Also, he battled a long time with cancer and stuff, and he's come to recently, and Mark was awesome. I just want to give a shout-out because he was the one dentist. He's the one guy that was so freaking nice. I'll never forget this. When I was at my first Cincinnati show, the first year of our distribution, I got into a situation where I was setting up all the machines and played great all weekend, and then something broke right before the customer was getting ready to take home their show game, and they were like, dude, this is broke. And I'm like, it is. Crap. What do I do now? And Mark stepped in and was like, no, let's go to my truck. I've got all kinds of parts there. Not only that, like helped install it out of nowhere, didn't even know me. He just wanted to do that out of the kindness of his heart and a representation for that wonderful group over in the Cincinnati area. You're going to be missed just so much by so many people who loved and adored you, Mark. I'll be thinking about you. Thoughts and prayers go out to that group and to the family of Mark.
    77:34
    TPN last week, pinball party podcast. Episode 15 and 15.5. What the hell's going on, Jason? Triple Drain Pinball Podcast, Episode 29. That was a good one. Final Round Pinball Podcast, Episode 65, titled Eligible. Ouch. Like a phoenix, Dennis.
    77:52
    Running through the dirt. Off the Record Pinball Podcast, showcasing a new pinball podcast called Pinball Innovators and Makers Podcast. Dan Rosenstein. He's an engineer. He's a robotics person. He's going to be talking about custom pinball. He's going to be interviewing people that do the mechs and engineering and the coding and everything. There is all the mechs and all the magic that comes into pinball. What a great idea. So, Royal Chronicles, episode 28. Ooh, that one's new and fresh. Pinball is dying. Part 3, Valley Midway. What a crucial podcast. I love that. TPN this week, a lot. So, stay tuned. For Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Minney. And always remember, folks, you don't need to turn to the mod community to deal with that artwork on James Bond 007 60th anniversary. You can brown bag that. Just get some butcher paper, a little bit of masking tape. Oh, not butcher paper. Butcher paper. Just go. We're just going. What? I follow the, when it comes to bad art, Zach, I follow the UPS philosophy. What can brown do for you? And always practice safe pinball. and instead of feeling bad about enjoying pinball, it's always better to buy now than to cry now. Wah. Fucking cry. Wah. Don't be like Flippy. Only Flippy cries when I push his ass over. Hey, that's not very cool.
    79:11
    Don't go to TBF. Everything's here. It'll know. Except for restaurants. You gotta drive to get to them. I just fight everywhere when it comes to that stuff call it over dick it's not the end of the world well you want pizza or pizza flippy approved oh my gosh I am feeling good Here we go. I was dead now. Now I'm back. Now you're alive inside. Yes. I was dead inside. Where's my cigarette set? I want one so bad, Dennis. So bad. No, you're giving it up. You're giving it up. It's the worst. Still the worst. Still hasn't gotten any better. You just have to take up food like all the others do. I know. I need to plump up now. Still not the same. No.
    80:17
    So my wife scheduled our spring break vacation. And it falls right after TPF. So the Sunday of TPF, that Monday is then the full week of the kids. So she's thinking about not going to TPF. And I'm still, I think I'm going, but I'm back and forth on it. But, yeah, she scheduled it. And I got to say, maybe the worst idea ever. I do not want to go on this type of vacation. If you could have said, what's the one thing you would rather sit at a DMV instead of doing? That's what she's scheduled right now. If she's hearing this, she's freaking out. Is it a cruise? It's a fucking cruise. And you knew it because you dreaded it too. Actually, I've never liked the notion of cruises. I think they sound incredibly boring. Yes. And I've been on a cruise. And for some reason, I loved it for days three through six. But, yeah, she scheduled a Disney cruise. So not only are we going on a cruise, but we have to overpay for said cruise.
    81:21
    I am dreading it. I feel bad, too. It's like such a dick thing to say. It's like, you privileged bastard. Like, you can go on a Disney cruise. You're crying about it. It's for your kids anyway, number one. And number two, like, your wife schedules everything, and you still find a way to bitch about it? Not that this is what she tells me, but I felt bad because I'm transparent with her, and I was like, oh, maybe the worst. I can't think of something I would hate more. I don't want to be constricted. I don't want to be stuck in a boat. I'm afraid it's going to sink. I don't want to go to other countries. I don't want to do it. We just did that. I felt restricted there, too. We didn't even talk about my vacation to Puntacom. No, we don't want to talk about your vacation. All we know is you finally got the passports right. Food's never good on these crew. Just come on. Why can't we just go to Universal Studios like everybody else? You're a wizard, Zachy. God help me I wonder if Flippy has a flipper A little Two inch Lightning flipper His end of strokes You guys are dicks Can't stop the spirits when they need you This life is more than just a read through