Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 168 – Eat Your Spinach

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 19m·analyzed·Jun 2, 2021
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Zach Minney discusses distribution business, toppers debate, and Mandalorian pinball concerns.

Summary

Slam Tilt hosts Zach Minney from Flippin' Out Pinball and co-host of The Pinball Show, discussing his transition from clinical psychologist to full-time pinball distributor, the contentious 'toppers' accessory debate, Mandalorian pinball's design features, and broader industry concerns about accessory scarcity and pricing strategy.

Key Claims

  • Zach quit his clinical psychology practice to go full-time with Flippin' Out Pinball distribution

    high confidence · Zach explains his decision to leave psychology practice and focus entirely on pinball distribution business with his wife Nicole handling finances

  • Stern is not continuing UV kit production for Stranger Things despite strong demand

    medium confidence · Discussion about UV kits being backordered and unclear if new production runs are planned; hosts speculate Stern discontinued the series and no longer producing related accessories

  • Deadpool toppers are currently hard to find and may be getting restocked soon

    medium confidence · Zach mentions a 'little birdie' told him more Deadpool toppers may be produced; hosts confirm Deadpool is the 'hottest commodity right now' for toppers

  • Mandalorian pinball's upper playfield flippers remain active even when ball is on main playfield

    high confidence · Bruce criticizes the flipper behavior as distracting; technical discussion about whether game logic should deactivate flippers when ball is not on upper playfield

  • Manufacturing parts scarcity is contributing to delays in Stern game production, including Mandalorian

    high confidence · Zach states: 'getting these parts is difficult, and no bullshit, that is some of the delay right now' regarding manufacturing challenges

  • Stranger Things was distributed to select dealers prior to official reveal

    high confidence · Hosts recall Stranger Things machines being available to certain dealers before the public reveal event

  • Bruce owns only two machines with toppers: Rick and Morty and Whitewater

    high confidence · Direct statement from Bruce when asked how many machines he has with toppers

  • Stern's accessory department struggles with parts availability, limiting topper production runs

    medium confidence · Zach explains Stern has a separate accessories department but faces parts constraints that affect topper availability

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm a trained and licensed clinical psychologist. I lived up in the Chicagoland area for about four or five years, getting my postgraduate work, internships and all that. And I love that profession, but it's kind of a drag.”

    Zach Minney @ early discussion — Explains motivation for career transition away from psychology toward pinball

  • “It was really tough, and it's still tough at times, but I kind of rationalize it now, and I like, look, it's just part of the gig, man. You're getting paid, so people are going to take pot shots at you.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-discussion — Addresses perception of him as a 'shill' due to his distributor role while hosting The Pinball Show

  • “The reason people come back to me over and over and over again is because they have something that doesn't work that I get to part for quickly. Or they have something that falls out of the warranty that Nicole and I are like, yeah, but it's still bullshit that that broke. So we got you covered on that.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-discussion — Explains business philosophy centered on customer service rather than maximizing margins

  • “Or it's like when LE's come out and you can make $14,000 on one, but you still, by principle, think that's not really right to do to our customers. So we'll take the hit as it is.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-discussion — Indicates Flippin' Out Pinball intentionally forgoes significant profit margins on limited editions to maintain customer relationships

  • “The flipper's working always on the second playfield. That is very distracting.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ Mandalorian discussion — Main complaint about Mandalorian design; characterizes visible flipper actuation as design flaw

  • “The game knows when the ball is in the upper play field, so there's no reason to have the flippers on when it's not up there, because it knows when it's there, and it knows when it leaves.”

    Ron Howlett (summarizing Bruce's point) @ Mandalorian technical discussion — Articulates technical argument for why upper playfield flippers should disable on main playfield

Entities

Zach MinneypersonRon HowlettpersonBruce NightingalepersonGreg BonepersonNicole MinneypersonDennispersonDwightpersonFlippin' Out Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern maintaining dual-channel strategy with Stern Insider paywall podcast and official Stern Insider, alongside external streamers, creating fragmented reveal presentation

    medium · Discussion notes Stern has development team on both Stern Insider podcast and appearing on external shows like Super Awesome Pinball Show; coordination unclear

  • ?

    community_signal: Bruce's public criticism of Mandalorian flipper design influenced broader community perception; others began noticing the issue after his mention

    medium · Bruce states 'once I mentioned it on our private chat, it happened... now everyone's going to look for that'; indicates his influential position shaping community analysis of games

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Distributor/media personality Zach Minney faces persistent 'shill' accusations despite demonstrating customer-first business practices and no evidence of promotional bias

    high · Zach describes weekly unfounded criticism, notes Dennis (co-host) serves as counterbalance, and acknowledges skepticism is 'just part of the gig' when affiliated with sales

  • $

    market_signal: Scarcity-driven FOMO strategy for toppers and accessories generating secondary market price inflation; manufacturers intentionally constraining supply despite clear demand

    high · Bruce criticizes manufacturers for artificial scarcity on toppers (Star Wars, Deadpool) and suggests increased production would meet demand; Zach indicates parts constraints are real but also strategic

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's game reveal streams criticized for poor presentation format; pre-recorded rules content missing, contributing to confusion; alternative platforms (Buffalo Pinball, Super Awesome Pinball Show) handling reveals

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.418

0:00
Hey, Butt-head, do you think Todd did it with your wife? Uh, I don't know. I'm just wondering, you know, if the two of them did it, you know, because she's not supposed to do it with other guys, right? But what I don't understand is she's your wife, so, like, isn't she supposed to do it with you, then, instead of Todd? Because I don't remember, like, you telling him it was okay to have sex with your wife. Damn it, Beavis, she's not really my wife. I don't think it even counts, because, like, we never did it. It's like the marriage of anal or something. Oh, yeah, yeah.
0:46
Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Shelf Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Howlett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Brr, it's freaking cold and it's freaking almost summer. Yeah, I got ice cream on Thursday because it was nice and like 80 degrees, and the next day it was 40. Yeah, 43 degrees. Very great.
1:09
This is episode 168, and again, we are not alone. We're not alone. We have a guest. We have one of the hosts of the pinball show is here. Fuck yeah, I love Dennis. Dennis rocks.
1:24
It's not Dennis. What? It's me. It's the other guy. When I said Zach, I thought you meant, you know, like, you know, first it's Dennis, then, you know, you get... No. I thought you meant... No, no, it's my boss. It's your boss? The time has finally come that you guys have allowed me on the Swing and Tilt podcast. Hey, fellas! How's it going, Zach? It's not going too shabby. Thanks for being with me. Yeah, we've been trying to get connected.
1:51

“Stranger Things without the projector and the UV kit is useless. It's useless. Because the whole thing is about the experience.”

Zach Minney @ Stranger Things discussion — Emphasizes that Stranger Things Pro lacks essential features making it an incomplete experience

  • “I think it's probably one of the best besides, I know Stranger Things did pretty well on locations if people saw it. After they played it, they didn't go back and play it again.”

    Zach Minney @ game assessment — Suggests Stranger Things is a good earner for operators but has low replay value

  • “Why are accessories have to be so limited? That's the problem I'm having with these manufacturers. If you want to go into Toppergate and how much these toppers are going, guess what? You see the demand. Make the money.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ toppers discussion — Criticizes manufacturers' artificial scarcity strategy for toppers despite clear demand

  • “They need to have a little side division and have these all done... They do. It is like a step. I thought it was a whole different line that they work on the accessories, the accessories department.”

    Zach Minney @ accessories discussion — Confirms Stern has dedicated accessories department but parts constraints limit production

    • The Pinball Show
    organization
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Mandalorian pinballgame
    Stranger Things pinballgame
    Star Wars pinballgame
    Deadpool pinballgame
    Willy Wonka pinballgame
    Dialed In pinballgame
    Pinball Networkorganization
    Silver Ball Saloonorganization
    Pinball Junk Drawerorganization
    TPN (The Pinball Network)organization
    Buffalo Pinballperson/company
    Stern Insiderorganization

    medium · Hosts note Stern should pre-produce truncated rules videos 30 minutes before live stream; Jersey Jack using Buffalo Pinball for reveals; Stern Insider relies on paywall podcast for development team content

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Zach Minney transitioned from clinical psychology practice to full-time pinball distribution, indicating significant career shift in pinball industry

    high · Zach explicitly states he quit his psychology practice and went full-time with Flippin' Out Pinball after determining psychology work was costing him money relative to distribution business

  • $

    market_signal: Distributors report foregoing significant profit margins ($14k per LE unit) on limited editions to maintain customer relationships rather than maximize short-term revenue

    high · Zach explains Flippin' Out maintains consistent pricing across LE runs despite variable market demand, taking 'the hit' on margin to preserve customer loyalty

  • ?

    product_strategy: Mandalorian shipments not yet achieved despite reveal stream; hosts note 'we still haven't seen Mando shipping' which is atypical for Stern's typical reveal-to-shipping timeline

    medium · Zach and hosts discuss Mando as imminent but not yet shipping; Zach checks 'Mando' off as on his checklist; compared unfavorably to typical Stern 2-week reveal-to-shipment pattern

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stranger Things Professional version lacks UV kit and projector, making it functionally incomplete compared to Premium/LE; creates market segmentation frustration

    high · Hosts state 'Stranger Things without the projector and the UV kit is useless' and criticize Stern for not providing UV kits to Pro owners despite high demand

  • ?

    product_concern: Mandalorian pinball criticized for always-active upper playfield flippers creating visual distraction during main playfield play, suggesting design oversight or laziness

    medium · Bruce identifies flipper behavior as distracting; hosts discuss how game logic could easily disable flippers when ball not on upper playfield; once mentioned, community began noticing the issue

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Parts scarcity is directly affecting Stern production timelines and accessory availability, particularly toppers and UV kits

    high · Zach states 'getting these parts is difficult, and no bullshit, that is some of the delay right now' regarding manufacturing; Mandalorian production preceded by delayed Stranger Things UV kit availability

    • Well, first, you know, Ron screws up and thought it was at 9.30 for some reason, which I've never been late for a podcast, so Bruce thought I was dead, and he's ready to drive over here. Then I get on, and my mic goes crazy for some reason. Then I break up. And then Bruce starts breaking up. But we're here. We're all here, and it's going to be great. It's going to be exciting. I can't wait. Man, it's early. You sound thrilled. Oh, God, it's so early. So Zach is one of the creators of the Pinball Network. He also has his own business, Flippin' Out Pinball. He sells Stern Machines, JJP. He sells the Pinball Brothers. He sells American Pinball. He also sells the Golden Cheese through... Man, you're good. Incredible technologies. Yes, man. So he sells all the stuff that we bash on a regular basis. Oh. What about CGC? We sell those. Do you bash those? Yeah, we bash how they play. They don't heal, man. Yeah. You don't feel right. I'm talking more Bruce. He's the one who breathed. And remember, I'm good cop. He's bad cop. Yes, I'm bad cop. So tell us a little bit about yourself, your history, and how you got into this fun thing called pinball. Oh, do you guys really like to ask? I hate that. I know. That's why we love asking it. We love asking because guess what? It makes people uncomfortable, and I get to mute my mic for 15 minutes and go get a coffee. And you can make a chick. You could say you came from the planet Melmac or something, and you came down, and, yeah, you could say anything. Like a Dennis Creasel reference there. I have no clue where that came from. No. No clue. Actually, I have no clue. Did I get that from somewhere? Oh, is that Alf? That's Alf, isn't it? Okay. Yeah. Well, I was trying to think where the Coneheads were from, but I don't remember. Yeah. I don't remember that one. No. They're from France or something. Of course, that's where I was from. Mm-hmm. All right. I'll give you the boring layout here. So, my name is Zach Minney, and I'm addicted to pinball. So much so that four or five years ago after, let me say five, day fix, five, five, I'm good. I got my coin. Five years ago, I got into pinball thinking it would be a cool toy for a game room or a garage. After that, I became obsessed with it and adding all of the clown vomit LEDs to it and learning how to fix pinball machines because it was a data east. Those trough rollover, they just never worked. And then transitioned from that to kind of playing, having a short attention span and flipping, cleaning up stuff because I couldn't really afford a lot of collections like many of you listeners have. And then about a year into it, Greg Bone, my best buddy and I from Louisville, Kentucky, thought about sticking an iPhone in front of us and recording our discussions. Somewhat similar to a podcast, but a video format. That went on currently still four years plus. And then I had the opportunity to purchase a distribution company two and a half years ago, pulled the trigger on that. And I've fallen even deeper in love with pinball and everything that surrounds it, whether it's the machines themselves or the media that we create about said topics. So that's basically it. I want to go more into the distribution side. What the hell were you thinking?
    5:16
    Well, first, it's a great opportunity to do it because it's what you love. And it's great, you know, you actually quit your main job, which you are a doc. I'm a soft sciences doc. I'm not doing surgery. Yeah, I know. But it still takes a lot of balls to have something that you were good at and you had a stable job and changed your whole lifestyle with. He did change his lifestyle. I mean, since he's become a distributor, he's just throwing money around now. It's like so much money. Love ground pools in Indiana. Oh, God.
    5:50
    I've even added to that Indiana lifestyle we'll have to talk about later. But, yeah, I'm a trained and licensed clinical psychologist. I lived up in the Chicagoland area for about four or five years, getting my postgraduate work, internships and all that. And I love that profession, but it's kind of a drag. as one could imagine. So when the opportunity came up, the previous owner of Flippin' Out Pinball was an established business. Previous owner was a friend of ours, and I a lot of times got my games through him. And he was in his late 60s, and he was getting ready to retire the year before, and I brought it up. Nicole and I were like, you know what? Well, honestly, here's what happened. As many can relate, my wife was like, look, every time you get into shit, you get way too into shit and you spend way too much time and effort and energy. And so I thought, well, I can maybe have her agree to a distribution. That way it makes sense for me to spend so much time into this. And so I did that. And he retired. I bought his business. Nicole runs all of our bookkeeping and all of that. And I do sales, marketing, shipping stuff. So she's the brains. Yeah, I would tell people, like, if it has a dollar sign, go to her. I don't know how any of that stuff works. If you're listening, Nicole, thank you.
    7:21
    My wife did the same thing. It got to the point where I was trying to do both. I was trying to be a clinical psychologist by day and a distributor at night and on the evenings and the weekends. But then I was doing two full-time jobs at 50 hours a week plus. and I couldn't keep up. So I had to make a decision. What am I going to do? Do I want to do what I'm passionate about right now or want to stay with what's going to be needed for the rest of my existence? And I choose the former. And it has been a good thing thus far. Whenever I got into it, listener, this was pre-pandemic stuff. So it wasn't crazy like it is now. I thought it would be just a part-time gig, but I found really quickly that there are some dealers out there just, I'm pretty frank, guys, sorry, but they're just kind of a pain in the ass to deal with, and they're not always the most honest people. So I thought if I'm just a decent human being and treat people like I like to be treated, then I should be okay. And that is what made the business kind of boom, and it got to be a full-time job. And every time I was doing or seeing patients, it was almost like I was losing money. It was taking away from what could have been for flipping out pinball. So my wife and I decided this last year that why don't we just hang it up for now and really go full force with pinball and arcade. And we've been having a blast. It's super stressful, and it sucks a lot, but I love it. It's mine. So how do they get in touch with you, Zach? So we're just going to make the full, humongous plug.
    8:55
    I'm the one that gets blamed for plugging it. That is why I'm doing this. I'm doing this on purpose. Yeah. FlippinOutPinball.com. That's Flipp, the letter N, OutPinball.com. or email me, direct at Zach, Z-A-C-H, at flip, the letter N, outpinball.com. It's so fresh that everybody heard that. They've never heard that before. No, never. I never hear that. Never. So do you look at your patients and be like, man, you're costing me money. I could be selling toppers now. There was a time that, like on a release day, we'll have a big release day from CERN or something, and I'm sitting there losing attention when I'm talking to my patients, and I thought, okay, this is the red flag. Like I can't do this anymore. They deserve better, and I need to get this taken care of. I don't blame you. No, it really is hard. How does it feel as the host of the pinball show, the fact that no matter what you do, everyone will see you as a shill because of what you do? It was really tough, and it's still tough at times, but I kind of rationalize it now, and I'm like, look, it's just part of the gig, man. You're getting paid, so people are going to take pot shots at you. They're going to jab you. They're going to say stuff that's not true. And without being whiny, it happens weekly. There's so much shit that's said about me weekly that I deal with that's just so far from the truth that you're going to let it bury you. Sometimes I lean into it, and I do infomercials on YouTube for certain products. If I love the shit, I don't care to scream it from the rooftops. So it's just part of the gig, unfortunately. You also have Dennis as your co-host, who is probably the most polar opposite of Shiel than you could possibly have. Many times makes it more difficult for me. Thanks, Dennis.
    10:40
    But I got the same thing when we had Silver Ball Saloon. You know, Ron would, and honestly, half the time, more than half the time, Ron would just go, hey, where is that? And I'd be like, oh, here we go. 135 West Commercial Street. Oh, sorry. Exactly. And people would criticize me, like, oh, why are you doing this? I'm like, well, it's part of my life. Wait a minute, we got criticized? Oh, yes. For you plugging your own bar on our show? Yes. Well, where else are we going to plug it? And I've already gotten one complaint about the pinball co-op. Oh, yeah, we talk about that a lot. I can see that. It's exciting. It's your show. You can do what you want with it. And that's how I feel as well. That's when we developed the pinball network thing. It was just a collection of people who want to have fun and, you know, bullshit and have fun in pinball and move forward. There's no motive for me trying to sell people stuff. That's the ongoing, you know, that's the ongoing narrative. But there's no evidence to support or back that up. There's plenty of stuff that I could try to do to sell pinball machines through, you know, through any of the media that I do. But for the most part, the machines, everybody wants them anyway. So it's not like I have to do a lot of advertising. The big thing is just taking care of people once you sell a product. That's the biggest thing. The reason people come back to me over and over and over again is because they have something that doesn't work that I get to part for quickly. Or they have something that falls out of the warranty that Nicole and I are like, yeah, but it's still bullshit that that broke. So we got you covered on that. Customer service is key, especially in this day and age. Yeah. Or it's like when Ellie's come out and you can make $14,000 on one, but you still, by principle, think that's not really right to do to our customers. So we'll take the hit as it is and we'll sell it for what we sold the last one for. No, no, no. You're thinking about this all wrong. I'm going to give you a little marketing 101.
    12:35
    Here's what you're going to do. Say you get 12. I haven't heard that before. Say you get 12. You say to customers you only have six. You buy the six. Extra ones. You hold him in the background for a month or two, and then you go for the shimble.
    12:53
    I usually keep one for myself, though. That is the benefit of being a dealer. I like pretty shiny new things, so I open them all up. Oh, yeah, you do. And you have to have them all in uniform, exactly the same height. Yeah, yeah. The funny thing is, Bruce, you remember RGP, you know, Rick Games Pinball? Yes. Would you say that could be the type of person they'd make fun of back in the day? Oh, my God. Oh, my God, yes. You would have loved it there. Yeah, they were brutal. It made Pinside look like a boxing ring sometimes. Basically, if you won RGP, there were certain assumptions. You knew how to use the Internet. You were tech savvy. Yes. You bought and worked on all your own games. And if you didn't do that stuff. You're an idiot. Yeah. And you didn't put LEDs into anything. Well, they didn't exist yet. But even if they did, yeah, you'd be. Well, especially clown LEDs, yes. Yeah, clowning. No clowning allowed. People would have butchered me then. Oh, yeah. So, we know you are the king of the toppers. Oh, thank you, Bruce. Yep. Yes. We all bow to your greatness on toppers, even though it's the worst accessory ever effing made. What? No. Shit. No, no, no. My Star Wars would not be Star Wars without R2-D2 on top of it. Okay. Star Wars and Black Knight. The rest suck. Really? Wait, what about Stranger Things? It sucks. What? Can we tag team this idiot on Stranger Things? I'm tired of arguing with him. Not only is the game great, no, that is a showstopper topper, baby. No, it is not. Yeah, it stops me from wanting to play the game. That's what it actually is. Literally, you look at the topper like, you know, I was going to play this, but that topper, I just hate that infinity lighting. I just can't do it. Come on. Well, they add nothing except for the two that I talked about. That is an interactive topic. Doesn't the Jurassic Park one add a mode? That's right. It does, but you can't get it anymore. That's the problem. Sure you can. If you go to flippingoutpinball.com, they'll take care of that. Yeah.
    14:58
    And you know what, Bruce? To that, I would say that poor Whirlwind and Whitewater just said fuck off. They did, because they didn't do it every time. Every game did not have a topper. Those games are great. You can't buy a whitewater without a topper. Especially since that's where the title of the game is printed. Exactly. But the problem is, they didn't do it on every game. Now it's just things like every game, we have to have a topper. Yeah, because it's a revenue stream, Bruce. Don't you want Stern to make money? No, because Spooky doesn't make it a revenue stream.
    15:30
    They've got a topper for their last handful, I think. I know. But he's saying it was free. Well, I mean, quote-unquote free, sure. I'm chief. I'd rather have a nice topper than a free topper that I don't like. Well, you should have said, Bruce, like, well, whitewater didn't cost any extra for the topper. Exactly. I don't like toppers. You see, Zach, this is why our listeners like our show, because Bruce doesn't shill for anything, and he hates everything. He shits on Stern when he's, like, in the Stern Army. Like, he just shits on everything. Damn, I'm... The only lieutenant that shits on it. Yes, exactly. They think that it's me. I'm going to go. Okay, you wanted to go there, Ron. Now, here we go. Oh, God. We're having now opening box parties for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Stranger Things. The game's been out a year. People have played somewhat of them. Yeah. But we had a pandemic. Come on. Wait a sec. Hold on. Wait a sec. I want to get my Stranger Things now. I'm going to have a party for it. Oh, maybe I want to buy one. I can't. that's what it really was meant for, to encourage sales. What's that? The game of the topic.
    16:42
    He's going about launch parties now. He's, like, totally changed the subject as he does. Well, because you brought up something with the Stern Army, and that's what Stern Army does with that. So you brought it up before anything else. Why can't you buy a Stranger Things Pro? Well, you can, but you can't get the UV kit for it. Yeah, who wants a Pro? You want a premium. You need the freaking projector. Even I'm going to say that. Yeah. Stranger Things without the projector and the UV kit is useless. It's useless. Because the whole thing is about the experience. I'll go into Zach land here. It's the experience, and it's just not the experience. It's the world's underclass. I played the pro, and it's just, no, you need the projector. And once you see the UV kit in action, it's like, oh, yeah, you can't play this without the UV kit. It's all.
    17:26
    We have a couple guys that have the LE, and I will say that. You're in Rochester. Everyone has everything. Every Star Wars in Rochester has a topper on it except Arzak's. I know. And I believe they're supposed to make some more UV kits come June. I hope so because that would actually sell the rest of the line out, possibly for the pros. Yeah, I don't know if those are we're only running what is already backordered from dealers or if that is a new run. It should be a new run.
    17:56
    It would encourage people to buy them, Maybe people who maybe even want to get an LE and somebody didn't have it on theirs or a premium, you know. And I don't understand this trickle down stuff. Well, the problem with the UV kit, I can see why Stern wouldn't want to continue producing it because they've kind of discontinued or stopped that series title anyway. So if you're not going to make more pros and premiums. Still shooting it out there with them, no. Okay. All right. But their hands are washed of that title. So why continue to make... I'm just devil's advocate. I would love to have 20 kits. He's giving you ammunition on how much you say the game sucks. The fact that they're not making it anymore. There you go. That's what I'm saying. Why do accessories have to be so limited? That's the problem I'm having with these manufacturers. If you want to go into Toppergate and how much these toppers are going, guess what? You see the demand. Make the money. I think if you, yeah, but if they were sitting on shelves, then they wouldn't be selling for what they're selling. Okay, now have they been sitting on shelves? Most have not been sitting on shelves. No, but if they were, you wouldn't see these prices and you wouldn't see this desire. We always want what we can't have. So if you could have it, if I had a whole truck full. You can go back to this Willy Wonka crap. Let me get my popcorn. Hold on. Yeah, God. The Willy Wonka crap, it was all hype. when they stopped making Willy Wonka and you guys all had them. And, you know, hey, this is still the best game going out there. It's still a shitbox.
    19:32
    Willy Wonka is arguably the best Jersey Jack pinball machine made. And I don't have any to sell. I know that. I know you don't. But at the time when they stopped the run, a lot of people did say, it's still the best, it's still the best. They were kidding. They drive up the price. They were good. You know what was fitting, though, was the best Jersey Jack game. That's Dialed In.
    19:59
    It's a great game. But the thing is, yeah, way to kill that subject. But Dialed In is good. Yeah, Dialed In is great, but the only way it gets added to my collection is if I take a fucking cheese grater to all of the artwork and the theme of that game. Wow. I can re-theme it, and then I might want to own it. That's what's sad. Like, theme is so important to me, guys and listeners, that even a great, great, I love the rules of Dialed In. It shoots phenomenally. But it doesn't pull me in. I don't want to add it to the collection. He's the pull me in crowd. Yes. You got to pull me in. But the thing is, make a product. And why is Stern literally giving up money? They're leaving money on the table. They really are. They are. If you want to actually make it more desirable, they never say to these things, we're never going to release this again. Find another manufacturer to run the Star Wars toppers for another $300 or $400.
    21:03
    Yeah, but they limited that one. That one was limited. It had a serial number on it, so it would be hard to run that one. Well, you could say it's a limited edition.
    21:10
    Yeah, but that's pulling the JJP like, oh, come on, this thing really is. JJP gets free passes on that all the time. Yeah. I mean, any other topper I could say, okay, but that one was limited from the run. Okay, so any other topper. Let's do, why are they eating the topper? Deadpool is a hot topper right now nobody can get. I know. Really?
    21:29
    With the thumbs up thing? Yep. Really? Yep, because they're hard to find. And now that Deadpool is just the hottest commodity right now, people want to add the crown to the top of it.
    21:41
    Can't find it. But, little birdie did tell me that they may be producing more of those. Oh. What they need to do is literally have a little side division and have these all done. Well, they do. It is like a step. I thought it was a whole different line that they work on the accessories, the accessories department. And right now, the difficult part is it truly is parts. Like, we all know manufacturing right now, getting these parts is difficult. and no bullshit, that is some of the delay right now. Of course. And hell, we still haven't seen Mando shipping. No, we haven't. That's not typical for Stern. Usually we get a reveal two weeks. They're out there. How Stranger Things was out there to us dealers, select few dealers, prior to the reveal. Oh yeah, I remember that.
    22:34
    It was revealed and then here's one on location. Like what? How'd that happen? Oh, that felt so good. I wish they'd continue doing that. I agree with that. I wish they would, too. We know everyone is excited about Mando. I know you said on... Hey, that's on my checklist. Mando. Yeah, see? Yeah, it just smoothed right into that one. You smoothed right into it. Bruce, you're still wrong about toppers. No, I'm not. No.
    22:58
    Toppers are good. Some toppers suck. I don't think I forgot about that shit. Quicksilver dildo topper. Yes, I'm going to put that on there. We figured that's the only way you'd buy quicksilver, is to put a dildo topper on it. You're all scared. I used the coil from the back of a fishtail. And so it pops around.
    23:20
    I'd probably buy it. There we go. That'd be a good question. Like a topper. Like what toppers would you put on old sterns that would fit the theme? I think it'd be smart to go back and somebody create toppers for those machines as well. You could do it. You could have, I would do it for like a lot of the licensed ones. Like you have like Evel Knievel. He has like a motorcycle topper or something on the top. Go for that. He spins in a loop. Yeah. Or Flash Gordon, what could you do? You could have the castle there or. The rocket ship. Yeah. You could have a big ass strobe. That's what I'd add to Flash Gordon. Because the one in the back box never works. Never does. Add a big one on there. Is this true? You could do a lot with the older ones. Yeah. See? New market. There you go. But I still don't want a topper. I hope that Haggis topper looks good. I really hope the Fathom topper looks good. Ask me how many machines I have with toppers.
    24:21
    How many machines do you have with toppers? Two. Which ones are they? Rick and Morty, because it comes factory. And Whitewater. And he doesn't want you to hear this, but he had an ACDC, and he bought a topper for it. Oh! Yeah. What topper I've ever bought? It was the train one. The train one. The train's colliding.
    24:47
    That's the only one I've ever bought. Never bought a stern one. See, I just gave him up there. Oh, I bought one. I'm going to do the Johnny Dangerously line. Once. Once? Okay. If you want to enjoy pinball just a little more Bruce, I would encourage you to add some toppers.
    25:08
    Can't do it. So what do we think of Mando now that we saw the stream? Yes, I love it. I think it's going to flip. The only thing I don't like about it. Here we go.
    25:18
    Are you going to say the stupid flipper thing? Yes. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay. The flipper's working always on the second play field.
    25:28
    That is very distracting. Okay. What about your stupid Simpsons pinball party? Those flippers are always active on the top. But they're smaller and they're on the corner. They're smaller and they're on the corner. This is on the corner, Bruce. No, it's not. It's sometimes right in your face. Especially on the pro, it's up. It's going to be only up. Only up. No. Yes, it will. No, it's not up. It's not up on the pro. It's angled regularly.
    25:56
    That's why it only has one flipper. I thought you could see it always on the pro. I thought it was just like the part of the play field. Yeah, it's still not an upper play field. That's still part of the regular play field. But you still see them all the time. And once I mentioned it, everyone went, oh, wow, yeah. Jesus Christ. You know they did. Bruce, the winning argument there was the gap on the premium LE is almost too small, making and rendering that upper play field possibly too easy. But you went with any flipper above the main two is distracting? What?
    26:31
    All third flipper games would distract you? You watch the screen. I know where Bruce is coming from. He's coming up from a tech perspective that the game knows when the ball is in the upper play field, so there's no reason to have the flippers on when it's not up there, because it knows when it's there, and it knows when it leaves. So he's thinking, like, that should be an easy cold thing. Just shut that sucker off. And it annoys him. That's why he's Bruce.
    26:53
    But think about it. If I'm playing a game and 90% of my time I'm on the lower play field, how much wear and tear are those flippers going through?
    27:01
    Yeah, I mean, it's your bottom, of course. How good are current stern coil stops? You know, Bruce, I'm going to modify my ACDC so the lower playfield flippers just flip all the time just to annoy you. Oh, God, don't do that. Don't do that. But do you see what I'm saying? The playfield, you know when you're in the playfield. You're saying when that diverter gate up top stops the ball, then the power can be initiated.
    27:27
    And then when it leaves, there's an opto at the end of it. Okay. How hard is that? Just laziness. But how big of a deal is that? Not at all.
    27:39
    No one cares with you. No, because once I mentioned it on our private chat, it happened. Oh, stop. What happened? People were like, oh, yeah, it is kind of annoying watching that. And now everyone's going to look for that.
    27:51
    No wonder you don't like toppers. Oh, I hate distractions. Isn't he annoying? He's easily distracted. It should be easy to play him in tournament play. It's just distracting. He's annoying in the most lovely way. But it's not, is it? It's hard to play me a tournament play, isn't it?
    28:06
    Okay, seriously, what do we think of Vando? I like the sounds. I like the shots. I think it's going to be a win-win for Sturm. It already is a win-win, but I think it's even going to be more. I think once it's out in the field, I think people are going to want to play this. They're going to see Baby Yoda and have to play it. Exactly. Even though he doesn't move. I think the consumer, the regular off-the-street consumer, will go, wow, I want to play that game.
    28:32
    Yeah, it'll be an earner. And I think it's probably one of the best besides, I know Stranger Things did pretty well on locations if people saw it. After they played it, they didn't go back and play it again. But and that is the truth. I know guys that have it and they're already... Hey, you know, I'm good at liking games that no one else likes, obviously. Stranger Things, Dialed In. Yeah, some people don't like Great Pinball. Yep. Continue. Yep. But I think it's a great moneymaker. What do you guys think? It's Star Wars. Yes. Yeah. I was watching the stream, and I love Dwight being Dwight. Ugh. He just explains it so fast. He just goes off in 30,000 different directions. It's great. Mm-hmm. I will say you guys did a great synopsis on TPN on what the issues are on this streaming stuff. You're shilling TPN. Are you trying to get in, Bruce? I'm already in. Oh, you are? You need a second episode. You need a second episode, dude. I do. That's the business. The Discord environment is getting stale. Okay. We're getting ready to move. Oh, okay. Likely skews.
    29:45
    My house has like 50 totes in it. Like tote land. But no. But what I was saying is like the first X-Ball I ever went to in 2004, showing age here, during the I went on the CERN tour and if you've ever been on the CERN tour they'll just break everyone up into groups and you each get like a different guide and my guide the first time I went there was Dwight. And I just remember like, wow, this guy's really into it. Because he was full Dwight during that tour. I wish but you guys brought up the point in TPN like they should put the rules pre-made already edited just before the stream. So 30 minutes before, you can watch the rules in a truncated, easy, follow-away. Then, you put out this video watching live gameplay.
    30:38
    What's wrong with this? I don't know. I got a lot of heat for that whole discussion. I don't know, really. I still think it's weird that they let someone else do it. It's not just Deadflip. It's Jersey Jack using Buffalo pinball, why don't they just do it themselves? They can control everything. And other things like Stern Insider has the whole podcast that's behind the paywall. They got their own podcast. So, yeah. So they have their development team on the podcast for Mando. I think the very next day it was on Super Awesome Pinball Show. They were on there, too. Yeah. So it's like, why do I bother paying for that? But then they come out with the LE thing. Well, if you were a paid Skirt Insider, they did the spooky thing, you have access to these, what, five LEs or whatever it was? Yeah. It was pretty limited. So at least that was a good idea. They're all kind of copy and spooky with that. I know the distributor and him does not like that. Yeah, but I think it's a great idea. I think Jersey Jack should have done that, too. Yeah. They did that, aren't they? No, they did that. Well, yeah, they had their own site, but didn't you have to be part of any special? No. No, you could. See, yeah, they should have had the paid service. But I still think it's weird that they don't do their own videos when they have got a name drop here. Tim Saxton. Yes. One of the things he did was stream like a ton. Yeah, good at it. He's good at it. Raymond Davidson. Yes. You could just have your own employees do it and show a game off any way you want. It's just weird.
    32:15
    Who the hell gave you heat? That's what I want to know. Oh, just listeners. Just listeners. What's the synopsis of it? Oh, you shouldn't be bashing, or you shouldn't be bashing this person. No, I get accused of, oh, this is just a vendetta that you have, blah, blah, blah. That's all. No, it's just logical. You've got your own podcast. You've got your own YouTube. But whenever you have your reveal stream, you give it away to someone else. And that's fine. Okay, that's odd enough. but after it's all said and done, when people want to go back and view it, they can go to Stern YouTube to watch the – no, they can't do that either. It's just – it seems like it's serving one party and not serving the other at all. That's my only argument. I think it made more sense in the beginning, maybe, when they didn't have any of their own streaming stuff. They had shows and stuff that they reviewed. Yeah, but now, maybe they just don't want to put the money into it. I don't know. It's just weird, and it really helps out the streamers in question because I would say on their YouTube channels, all their highest viewed videos are all like reveal streams. Well, yeah. I mean, I can put a squirrel in front of a reveal stream and it's going to get good numbers. So the argument that, oh, this entity has the biggest audience, oh, stop. Yeah. Stop. It's not that. Yeah, so I don't understand. And then from a dealer perspective, not to hammer this room too loud, but as a dealer, I kind of want them showing off a game and directing people where to buy it because it is a product reveal. But when I don't hear, hey, how much is this? Hey, where can I buy it? How many trim levels are there? Those are the kind of things that I want viewers to be aware of. But when it's I don't get any of that and then I get, well, check out this channel later. That's not Stern. So you can see more of it. And I'm the only one who's going to get it first, and there you go. Yeah, what are we doing here? Maybe there's something I'm missing, and I would love to be enlightened, but I think I'm right. I don't know. That being said, if there was any other pinball companies that would like their reveal streams, Slam Silk Podcast is available.
    34:30
    We could use the numbers. And it's about, I haven't spoke about this, but we helped with Jersey Jack do the promo video for Gina. And I hope I don get in trouble saying this but whenever we were going to reveal that promo video that feature behind the scenes talking with Eric and the coders and stuff it was slated to actually run at the same time as the paid production company Sizzle Reel And I spoke up and the person in charge, I said, hey, actually, this doesn't really make sense for Jersey Jack to have these simultaneous. why don't you stagger them a little bit so that your sizzle reel gets the first look, and then an hour, two hours later, then we'll roll out the first look, the behind the scenes. And that wasn't advantageous for me because I produced the second video, but it made sense for Jersey Jack. And I just wish that people who are given the resources and the responsibility and the privilege, if you will, to be able to showcase these games, to do so thinking of the manufacturer that is selling the product. It's not about yourself at that point. No, stop.
    35:48
    Those people don't plug themselves. I've never seen a stream where they said, hey, it's going to be this price. There's going to be three models explaining each model and going. Have a link. Have a link to people buy. Have the Stern logo on the overlay. Exactly. That's what I was going to ask. Or anybody. You know, it's just I don't understand it. I really don't. The only person, here's the funny thing. We make fun of the company all the time. Deep Root is the only company that has somebody from their own. Yeah, they did their own stream. Run from the stream. They did. So that's the funniest thing about it. It's not a deal breaker.
    36:24
    Ultimately, it's not a deal breaker, but you're just not taking advantage of business that you could be. That's what doesn't make sense to me. But most people were upset with you when you were talking about this. I was going, oh, my fucking God, finally somebody's speaking the truth. Yeah, but look who it's coming from. That's the problem. It's coming from me, which will be, you know, well, there's a bias there. Guess what? There is no bias. I was agreeing totally. There's no bias for Bruce. He hates everything. I hate fucking everything. Everything and everyone. But overall, the game to me looks fantastic. It looks so good. Like, the layout alone, I've said it before, but it's refreshing. I don't think before we've really seen a layout this unique and fresh. We all thought we were getting a Shadow 3.0, but no. It's your man, Brian Eddy, Bruce. Yes, he finally brought a good game out. Oh, man.
    37:21
    Stranger things. AFM. It's not AFM. It is AFM. It's so far from it. Oh, the rules aren't? Yeah. They are, actually. Holy shit. They are. We're going to go into the lining gate now. Yes. No, this is the rules. I'm copying.
    37:42
    How's the copying? You don't go through cities. I'm doing that. No, we go through modes that are based off of the same mode. Oh, my God. With annihilation mode compared to what do they call it on Stranger Things? Total isolation. Are you going to get on? You're just. It's the truth. Bruce, is Attack from Mars a great game? Great game, yes. What's the problem with Attack from Mars for you? Nothing. Nothing? Nothing. Okay. You don't feel like the code? No, because at the time, the code was perfect. No, no, no, not at the time. No, and it still is. Honestly, I can go up to Attack from Mars and still smile and laugh my ass off and enjoy it. My only thing, I wish it would end. Yes, I agree. Like when you rule the universe, and they never did that back then. And that is something they do now that I like. Which I do like, that's it. I know Roger Sharp hates it, but I have to disagree with him here. I think you can't have the game just end. Because if you save the universe, why am I continuing to play? That's the only good thing about TNA. Once you blow up nine reactors, it's done. I think that you have a point. You have an argument if you're saying that attacks from Mars and Stranger Things are identical. Only if you're okay with a different geometry and layout completely, different code, different theme, different innovation, different everything. They're the same. If you put a pro Stranger Things and you put a regular attack from Mars and lay them on top of each other, the shots are almost identical. Really? What about that left orbit?
    39:25
    Left orbit? That's useless? Yeah, that's great. Don't enter logic into this. It will never work with Frist. Left orbit to right ramp is different. Inner orbit, right orbit to left orbit, very much different. Three points to most of the ramps are almost the same. Right ramp, very different. A left ramp, very different. What is the same on this game? The entrances? I think that's about the same. Yes. It's a fan layout, Bruce. It's a fan layout. I had to look it up. That's what I didn't like about it. It didn't have to be a cookie cutter of AFM, medieval madness. When he's proven in the past he could do something different. Is copying okay, though, if you copy yourself or no? No, it's not. It's not? Self-plagiarism. It's like self, it's like, okay, think about it. Every board game lately has been three in lanes and two in lanes. Doesn't that get a little old sometimes? So, like, when you played Star Wars and you saw, like, three shots start, Hoff, etc. He's like, oh, that's like Game of Thrones. I'm out. Dwight just copied himself. I don't want to play it. Where's the left scoop at on the AFM? As Ryan C. said, you plunge the ball, it hits the targets, goes in the left-out lane. Then you get it back because he put a double ball saver in there, which everyone seems to forget that was in the last code. Let's not get on the greatness of Star Wars. Yes. Let's not even start with that. Fuck Ryan when I need him.
    40:48
    Although Zach is the premium guy, if I remember. Absolutely. He's got one of the greatest shots in all of the games. I'd like to be a premium guy, except the fact that that shot rejects constantly and you can't get it up the damn thing. Everybody says that, but I don't know. I've owned a couple of them, and it's never really rejected. 6.5, Zach. Maybe you're a 5.0 guy. No.
    41:09
    It's smooth. Every premium I've ever played has major, major issues in that area. balls rejecting, going into hops, coming out, because not being able to get up into the hyperloop. I've had multiple issues. I think if I had that issue, then, yeah, I would have an issue with that game. But whenever it's buttery smooth and when you hit it, it sucks it up with that magnet and spins it around better than get away better than NASCAR. Really? Bring it to Expo. I want proof. Sure. Yeah, I need the proof, too. I need the proof. Bring it to Expo. Then you can complain that it's low power or it's from some other. You can have another excuse when it doesn't work. It'll be greatness. Zach McGee's house has 140 volts at his house.
    41:53
    That's two Gs. Yes. Now, this is the main thing. I love all the artwork. The artwork is really done well.
    42:01
    I am looking forward to playing it. That's my next step, of course. I really want to play a premium. Well, being in Rochester, you're guaranteed to play at least a couple LEs probably. There are a couple LEs coming right to us. Good Lord.
    42:18
    Here's the one thing I don't know about Mando. The in lanes, the child in lanes, I'll have to see enough of that on the stream. I'll have to see how that really plays out. Yeah, the fifth lane, that's not really a lane. I wonder what that even trips at. I think it's the target. I think it's that Razor Crest target. I don't see an Opto there. And I hope that upper play field is not too easy I don't think you're going to have a problem with that Because I believe in Dwight For the simple fact he did the RPG in T3 And he made that interesting Especially if you get into the later modes When you get through the first round Then it gets really complicated and hard to try to finish So if he does something like that with that upper play field You'll be fine That's when he had originality back 20 years ago What? I feel like if all else fails, we can always throw some lightning flippers up there. Right? No, no, no. We just have to switch to safe cracker flippers. Oh, yeah. Aren't they different? They're not like two-inch. They're like their own. Aren't they custom? They don't look like regular two-inch flippers. They're different. I've never owned safe cracker. I like fun games. That's good. Really good game. The last mode, the regular game, you actually have to make your shots at a certain amount of time. That's the problem. Oh, time-based stuff. Yes, it's great. Yeah, time-based stuff works so well every time they've tried it. Oh, yeah, every time. Every time they've tried it, it has failed miserably. Beat the Clock is great. I love Beat the Clock. What was the Gottlieb one? You run out of fuel. People love it when you have to do something. Yeah, and then your flippers just die or you have a certain amount of time. People love that. Yes, they do. That's the one part about pinball I'll never understand is over time, it'll be shown certain things just don't work. Yet every 15 years or so, someone will try it again. Like, it'll work this time. Like, no, it won't. Time-based never works. It never has.
    44:13
    I agree. My favorite is people that they just hate monopoly. But then if you shrink it down to make it even worse and put it and call it safecracker, they're like, oh, I love it. I'm like, what? I love monopolies. I guess what? I love them both. That works. That argument works. But yeah, the differentiation there always cracks me up. Yeah. All right. Let's move on. Well, let's just get this out of the way. Deep Root.
    44:39
    They made another announcement. Yes, they did. Well, their update. This one didn't even mention UL certification. I looked at it. It doesn't mention it once. So does that mean that's all done? It should be done. It really should be. I mean, I would think if it was done, they would have mentioned it was done. I think so. So I'm guessing it's not done and they just didn't want to mention it. Well, this update was just, to be fair, it was just a, hey, no updates, hang with us, and we encourage you to back out if you want your money back. Pretty much. Well, I have to do it. It's my gimmick. So while it's been six months since our last update, brother, we wish there was more to update on. We're dealing with the same issue as most other small and large businesses are, that is still struggling with some vendors over supply chain, brother, and delivery is unable to hire staff because the labor shortage is due and dealing with inflationary increases in part since we have not been able to execute quick enough. Wait a minute. Does that actual blame, like on themselves, that line? That's through me.
    45:42
    We have not been able to execute quick enough. Basically, yeah, it's what Zach said. They're like, if you wish to rescind your payments and want your money back, you can start doing that on June 1st.
    45:55
    They didn't even have that many sales of Raza in the first place. You can't imagine them, you know, getting rid of all these sales. I don't know. I don't get it. The game doesn't look to shoot well. A pretty game. But if you like stand-up targets, then, yeah, I think it's a great game. I don't know. First, I said that come hell or high water, they're going to come out, at least some of them. Now I don't know. I really don't know. Well, based on some of the rumblings in pinball media, that damn pin bar is causing them some problems getting that thing manufactured. It's the one thing that differentiates them from the other companies. It's something that doesn't seem to work. I only brought it up because I wanted you to say, where's the pin bar? Where's the pin bar? Yes. And Bruce dropped off, of course, because his internet died.
    46:51
    The Wi-Fi. I'm on Wi-Fi. No, I'm on hardware. I hope in his new house his internet's better because his internet sucks where he lives now. And it's like in a new, it's like all new construction, like a whole new development. Oh, that's odd. And his internet is just shit. Rochester's hot. Rochester. Well, let's, if we can hang out and talk about how great Stranger Things is. Yeah. What a great experience it is. And Bruce can't interrupt. No. It is greatness. You just got to have the lights down. You got to have the UV kit on a premium. The sound cranked up. Well, I didn't play it with the topper, so it didn't exist yet when I played it. Well, if you love it now, just wait. Well, is the topper integrated with the lighting of the game? Oh, yeah. Okay. Of course it is. Even if it isn't, I would say it is. By the way, you can get these toppers at Flippin' Out. Oh, that shooter rod? That illuminated Dungeons & Dragons? I don't get the shooter rod thing. I never got, like, illuminated screw rods, illuminated flipper buttons. Like, I don't care. I can't. Unless you're going to make them, like, heated flipper buttons so I remain comfortable. A new heated lockdown bar. That is funny. I mean, I don't see it. It's like the under cabinet lighting. I don't see it. Why do I care? It's like I want it to look cool when people watch me play pinball.
    48:14
    Yeah. Or I want it to look cool where it's sitting in a row. Absolutely. Oh, Jesus. Oh. Nothing gets more going than that. Oh, you would have never survived RGP. Never survived.
    48:27
    I would have. She would have been the enemy. I would have taken it like a badge of honor. Oh, God. Oh, man. Well, while we're waiting for Bruce here, I want to talk about play field hardness.
    48:42
    Oh, my. He's not there to say anything. I was listening to George Gomez's fireside chat on the Super Awesome Pinball show, He was talking about play fields.
    48:54
    And I don't know. He really seemed to hate the acrylic idea. He was coming on strong. He was coming on strong there, basically saying that, yeah, shots aren't going to work right because the mechs are made for a standard thickness play field. But I'm pretty sure Haggis said that a lot of their mechs are specifically modified to work with the increased thickness. I'm pretty sure I heard that. I didn't know what he was referring to. Yeah, I thought he, you know, and then he mentioned that they were in Europe. And I'm there like, okay, does he think Haggis is in Europe? And he's talking about someone else. I thought maybe he's talking about the hard tops. I thought he was maybe talking about the hard tops. Yeah, I thought maybe that's what he was talking about. But, man, he was. My homie Gomi was a little steamy there. Well, I have an issue with the whole play field hardness. He basically said, like, that hasn't changed. I have two issues with that. Okay. Number one, my eyes.
    49:46
    Number two, Pat Waller. number one is just look at any new stern it's going to have out hole wear they all have out hole wear i mean cliffy sells his protectors now is like a standard he's got an out hole protector now for your first thing i do whenever i unbox a game listener crank that thing down to 176 or as low as it'll go like why why do people not do that he's talking about the shooter lane yeah It protects so much there for you. But the out-hole itself will wear. Then if you go back and look at, well, I don't have my T3 anymore, but when I have my T3 here, Lord of the Rings, you know, Simpson's Pinball Party, it has no wear in the out-hole. Okay. I'm sorry. There's a difference with the wood. There's a difference with the hardness. And the second thing is I was at a seminar, Pinball Expo, hosted by Pat Waller, and this is when he was still at Stern. and the issue of plate fields came up. And he just flat out said the hardness of the plate fields that we used at Williams is not what's used at Stern, period, whatever the hardness rating is or whatever. Because even then people were complaining about plate fields. So you think it's a wood thing? I think there's differences in the wood and there's differences in the ply, which I think he did say. But I just look at it. Look at the wear in the out hole. That's hard to argue. You can't argue with that. And then you look at an ancient, you know, almost 20-year-old Lord of the Rings that's been played a zillion times, and nope, nowhere.
    51:22
    Something changed. Look at my Johnny Demotic. There's nowhere in the outhold. Do you think it has to do with the edge, maybe? I don't know. But it's like, oh, are you back? Yeah, honestly, complete power outage. What? Your house sucks. You need to move immediately. I know. Literally, I'm sitting here, and all of a sudden, the lights start flickering. I'm like, uh-oh. Suddenly, brr, all went down. I'm like, oh, great. So I'm like, shit, I better get to my hotspot real quick. Nope, lost you guys. I'm like, fuck. So I'm like, okay, it's going to come back up. And five seconds later, power came up. 30-second litter, it dropped that again. So then I had to reboot the whole internet again. I'm like, holy shit. We were just talking about how awesome Stranger Things was while you were away. That's perfect. You probably had a power surge because you will not and refuse to add LEDs to those EMs. Oh, that's it. That's it. Four EMs. Fuck no. Look at the freaking house laying over there. Jeez. Idiots. He wants all his plastics to melt. Yeah. Because I don't use them that much. Don't worry about it. Sorry, playfield inserts and boards. I don't care about you. Fuck you. Make sure I'm back on. Well, I'm going to be back on anyway, so. Yeah, you're on, Bruce. We can hear you. This is it. Fuck that shit I want originality I like domed over inserts Lovely I was talking about playfield hardness while you were away There you go There it is I was talking in reference to George Gomez's Fireside Chat On the Super Awesome Pinball Show Ah yes Where he was going off about how he didn't like The acrylic top ones And also about how The playfield hardness hasn't changed Which, I just use our out-haul analogy, the fact that you have wear at the out-haul. Bruce, why do you think there's wear at the out-haul on all new Stern games, but not older Stern games? Because they're going too thick.
    53:20
    Too thick on the clear coat. And that's making the wear happen? Yes, because what's happening is, it's two reasons. First, they have so much production, actually, they had more prep time, I think, back when they were making playfields. Everyone thinks, like, now we have digital playfields. What it all means is you have really less lead time. Digital printed. Is that what you mean? Yes. So you have less lead time. So what happens is now, instead of like when they made the older games like IJ, even like Simpsons and that kind of stuff, they had more time. So it had more time to cure, more time to get hard. Now what they're doing is just printing the digital, clearing it, clearing it, clearing it, and it doesn't have time to harden. So it gets weaker, the clear breaks down, and then it starts chipping.
    54:11
    Okay. I don't like their go-guys. There's so many hypotheses out there. A lot of people, you'll hear Charlie from Spooky, and you heard George Gomez in that interview, talk about the layers of clear that they did not put on the 90s Bally Williams game. So everybody wants these really, really shiny. You're going to get more dimples. You're going to get way more dimples, yeah. And even back then, you got dimples. Oh, yeah. AFM is dimples. Oh, yeah. Yeah, my gynomonic looks like the moon. Yeah. I don't care. The stripping is tough. That's the difficult part. A lot of hobbyists now, because we're all armchair quarterbacks, a lot of people think it may have to do with this digital printing and it not adhering and really sticking to that wood like a screen-printed art package would. Well, what about those J.J.P. C.E.s? Yeah, same kind of thing. They're almost saying they're having adhesion issues with the engine. Adhesion issues. And that's why you're seeing Stern, especially around posts and stuff, this is the guess. That's why you're seeing Stern pull artwork away from those posts. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's not a guess. That's 100% what they're doing. Yes. When I played Hour's Axe Jurassic Park, it's like an earlier on Jurassic Park, and I specifically looked at the post that's below the upper flipper. And then I looked at it on mine, which is a new run, and, yeah, they went way further around. where there's no artwork. Oh yeah, the post gets hammered.
    55:40
    That's what they're thinking. How does George Gomez know that he doesn't like the acrylic stuff when he really hasn't seen it except for in videos? He hasn't touched it, feeled it, felt it, or anything like that, you know? He's a toy maker. He knows what acrylic is. No, but I mean he hasn't seen it on play fields except for in early Valley days.
    55:58
    They did it on... Electra? Yeah, Electra. And they did it on... They were starting to do test runs for, what was it?
    56:08
    It was in the bad era of games, really bad era. Like, what was it called? Speak Easy and that kind of stuff. Right around that time, they were trying plastic play fields with KISS. Then he went back to it in Speak Easy time and a couple other stuff, and it didn't work. But that was way before George was even there. Yeah, his thing was how it would just, the mechs would sit in a different position. It's going to affect the shots, et cetera. maybe for hard tops that's the case, but I know Haggis said specifically that their mechs were going to account for that. They're actually making the thickness the same way. I know. Yeah, they had to go back and redo that whole thing. Yeah. How does he can say that it's wrong when he doesn't fully know it's wrong?
    56:55
    He was also talking about wood and saying that, sure, there are harder woods out there. Oh, more expensive. For the price? Yeah. Yeah, for the price. I mean, it just doesn't make sense for pinball. Well, yes, it does in some ways. When you've jacked up the price, keep on bringing up the prices, and you're still getting less plies than you did 15 years ago. So do it for LEs? Like you get these special enhanced wood?
    57:19
    You're paying more. Let's give it another bonus to it. I would almost think price-wise it would probably make sense doing it on all three models so that you can buy in bulk, but I don't know. Exactly. But the problem is before, back in 2002, 2001, Stern had a lot more layers. Now they don't.
    57:40
    Well, actually, it's weird. The new ones are like nine ply. The old ones were seven ply. So they're actually less ply.
    57:48
    It's thinner, but yeah. You can see in the cross-section it's done differently. Yeah. We've talked about that before. Yeah, I know. It's just, you know, don't go bashing other products when your product's still a shit. We didn't really say with the product, like, whose product it was. And he mentioned Europe. There's only two companies that are doing it. And he mentioned Europe, like it was in Europe. And I'm there like, okay, that can't be Haggis then, unless he doesn't know where Haggis is. Yeah, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. Speaking of Haggis, congrats on the Fathom sellout. $250. Which we predicted. We said it would go down to the wire.
    58:25
    Actually, I thought it was going to go first couple days. I really did. I was surprised. I did as well. I know you stated that. I was surprised. I was like, wow. That's why the first day I jumped on after the private stuff when you were on Team Haggis. I didn't want to pay for that. I saw you did. You got your hat and all your goodness. I did. Actually, it's a really nice hat. It looked really nice, but I'm cheap, you know, so I don't want to pay for it. so once the first day I was able to buy it I jumped on you know but I thought boy there's going to be a lot more and I was quite surprised but $250 I was happy to see the if you check out like on some of the forums now people again this is what happens the door closes now you're seeing people start to say oh man does anybody know somebody's got one I would have liked to had one of those so So I think it's going to, then that's why I purchased one, because I like the game. I got bored of the rules, you know, but Marty's got a 2.0 coming. I think it's going to hold its value very, very well, if not better than either. I think it's going to increase like. And it's gorgeous. It's one of the most beautiful pinball machines ever made. And it's coming with a topper at some point as an accessory. As an accessory, yes. So I don't have to buy one. Thank you. So do you think Centaur will sell out quicker or slower? It all depends on how they come through. Because you know Centaur's next. If this all works out and this goes out, the next one's going to be Centaur. It has to be. There's no other game it could possibly be. So if they get the games out, like they said, starting in July, there's no quality issues, I think you'll see that number double. Or it'll go faster. They'll burn through a lot more of them. Really quick. It'll be like the first day sellout like I'm expecting, like they did with Spooky, with Rick and Morty. That kind of thing I think will happen. If they have a lot of issues, they can't get these games out, there's quality issues, you might see them struggle.
    60:34
    And I think it's going to take a while to manufacture these. They're going to start in July. Oh, yeah. I don't think July is... They're going to start in July. Yeah, and I don't think that's even going to be in stone. I think July... What's going to happen is this. in July, the first ones will trickle out, they'll go to Australia. Maybe like in August, September, they'll start building the U.S. ones. Then the U.S. ones have to go. We have now the opposite way of what's going to happen with Australia. They're going to go by ship. It's going to take two to three months. I don't expect seeing mine until December, January.
    61:07
    Oh, that's right. You bought one. Yes, I did. We got dueling mermaids. You do live in Rochester, don't you? I do. Ron, who bought one in your area? Someone bought one in my area? No, who did? What do you mean, who did? I'm unaware of anyone buying one in my area. Ta-da!
    61:27
    Oh, you're just making fun of me again. Okay. Like magic. Ta-da! Yes, Bruce. Thank you. Thank you for reminding me I have to travel two to four hours if I want to play anything. You're always, guess what? with the new house, Ron, you have your own little bedroom again. Still a four hour drive. It's still painful. But you can stay over. That's true. And you have a bed to sleep in. An actual bed? Woo! Yes. And the internet works most of the time. Well, yeah, we'll find out. Hopefully will, and then hopefully we'll get fiber next year. Ooh. Yeah, 500-500. That'll be nice. So did anyone see this spooky teaser? Which really wasn't a teaser. It was just Charlie pointing out an Evil Dead poster. And then everyone's like, it's Evil Dad, it's Evil Dad, when I thought Ben Heck had already said that, no, we did that, but we couldn't get Bruce Campbell, so it got dropped. Yeah, they went back and forth, didn't they, he and Charlie, with the cost of getting Bruce Campbell, and ultimately, yeah, that was probably one of the reasons that he left. Hold on, I hear sirens in the background. Okay. Somebody must have hit something with a pole or something like that, because there's a ton of sirens I just hear. Wow, I lost the Internet in power. in my house when we were recording today, so... I thought it was like a segue for a joke or something. Yeah, so did I. I was just like, where's the joke? There were a ton of sirens and everything, like, holy crap, you know?
    62:52
    Yeah, but he was just pointing at an Evil Dead poster and, oh, it's Evil Dead, they got it, and, like, I don't think it's Evil Dead. Yeah, if he's going to be posted up by a poster, it's not going to be bad. The new Army of the Dead movie. Well, they just showed a little snippet of the cabinet. Yes, they did. And that was it. Any guesses? Horror themed Yes of course Something of the something dead Thank you Yeah you like that You got nothing I got nothing I don't know what it could be I would like it to be the evil dead But I don't think it is I would like it to be Nightmare on Elm Street But I don't think it is I really would love it to be Scooby Doo But I don't know what happened to that license Well, if you play Alice Cooper, they're right there in front of the castle What? Yeah, the silhouettes in front of the castle and Alice Cooper are that Scooby-Doo Oh, I've never noticed Scooby-Dooby-Doo, where are you? That's just a fantastic theme for pinball And some of the rumblings around is that it is Halloween Which I think is great as well I've been screaming since I started in this hobby Five years, David that you need a scary-ass pinball machine. A truly scary, not just tongue-in-cheek bullshit. Which version of Halloween? A terrifying one. I heard it. Give me the first one. The first one? Yeah, give me the first one for nostalgia reasons. But a truly scary pinball machine. I can't wait to see what Charlie has for us. Or as we call him, Bob Ross. He's the Bob Ross of... It's going to be an absolutely wonderful horror theme. Many people will die. It will be incredible. Happy little pinball machines. Are we going to see soon something from American Pinball? What, Legends of Valhalla? Yeah, who knows? I like that. I like that game. How do you like the game when you've seen like one stream of it? No, I actually played it. I played it one year. What? When?
    64:57
    Wasn't it the one that the other one played? No, no. You're thinking of the other one. Yeah, you're thinking of the, what was it called? You're at the Olympus. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, I have no idea. That was a kind of cool game, too. That was a cool game. That was a very cool game. I played it. I'd love to see them remake that. That would be great. Yeah, but that was a wide body, so they're not doing that.
    65:16
    Legends of Valhalla is a regular size. I think it's Legends of Valhalla, too. Yeah. That makes sense. The junior designer with Hell from Nordman. It's pretty much done, I would imagine. And they said it was going to be original theme. Yeah. and I hope they go with the advice that I've given them on numerous occasions, which is it's a non-licensed thing, so it's not going to sell well. Sorry, guys. Make it limited edition, load it down, and make 100 of them, and move on to the next one. I don't know if you make even a break in the price point at 100.
    65:52
    I think 250. I don't think you'll sell 250. I think 250 is a good safe number. I think you make $100, load it down, jack up the price, and have another game coming out four months later. Which is supposed to be a licensed game.
    66:06
    You also got to think of manufacturing. Know this. You got to keep the line moving. They build a nice machine. They build a great machine. I will say they bulletproof the machines. They just need a theme. They just need the game itself to be something that's really good. Yep. Josh Coogler, figure out how to restart a game with the start button, though. I hate that. Oh, what's the issue? Oh, you can't just hold it in, right? How could you stop that? You have to open the coin door, go into the menu system, then go back. I hate that. That's stupid.
    66:39
    That's another code issue. And they're using the P-Rock. I mean, the Spooky is able to do it, albeit it's slow and it still takes forever and makes funny on Rick and Morty, but still it works. Yes, it does. It still works. That's why Stern's the best. well did anyone see the pinball adventures video that came out oh my god this is what I'm waiting for the pinball adventures are the people who are well it was for another game called elements pinball have they even made punny factory yet no they haven't because I just figured they were going on to the next game so I wondered if I'd missed something yeah no you didn't miss anything the video was just bizarre It has a wizard, and he's talking, but he's obviously dubbed and not well by another voice. And then they just show random photos, including some pictures were directly from Pinside homebrew pinball section, which I'm wondering if they got the okay from those people to use their pictures in their little video. It felt like somebody. It has to be seen to be fully experienced, I guess. It's another level of cringe. Yeah. It felt like a nine-year-old got his first video camera, is editing software, and his dad owns a pinball company. He said, go for it, son! It felt to me like it was a gag, almost like Pinball Adventures was doing a satire on Pinball Adventures. Yeah, it was bad.
    68:06
    We know that we're piss poor at this kind of stuff, but we're going to kind of make fun of ourselves because we're so bad. But I don't think that's the case. It's like if they hired Slam Tilt Podcast to actually make their video. Oh, God, they don't want to do that. Just like Beavis and Bonnet. Ron would not allow that. Our games rule. Yeah, yeah. Games rule. But the proposed layout is much better than Pony Factory. Oh, totally. Wait a minute. There was an actual layout in there? You only went halfway through, I think, and then you turned it off. Yeah, I only saw the first part with the wizard, and when I saw he was dubbed, and his mouth didn't match with what he was saying, that's kind of an AV sync thing with me, and I just instantly shut down and had to turn it off. Yes, you did.
    68:53
    They've got it rendered on, like, a VP. But, again, what are they doing? What? Why are you showing us a video? Oh, okay, so they visual pinball, okay. Why? Just wait until the game is done. I don't know. Wait until your first game is done before trying to strike the second one.
    69:11
    Where are they? maybe they're doing a deep routine where you can do like nine of them it's just I couldn't get past the wizard it's like oh a wizard but wait a minute his mouth is not matching what he's saying at all it's bad it really really really bad do you guys have your browsers up right now I can I always have it up A browser yes Oh, my. You've got to check this out. I just noticed this today. Go to pinballbars.com. Okay, hold on. You're going to make me physically move with my dog out of the way. Make you physically move. Little pushes. Wait, wait, your dog that weighs 10 pounds? 22. Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. She's a tank. Your dog's mad at me now. Yes, he is. I'm not that heavy. PinballBuzz.
    70:06
    PinballBuzz.com. Oh, is this their site? This is their site. Okay, got it. Now, if you want a quick laugh, you can go to games and see the list of items that they have. And how horrible the ideas are. Sushi Mania. Mm-hmm. That's whack. Ninja Mania. Fruto Maddox. First Class Pinball. That's whack. What the fuck are they doing? Let's use a game for that. So this is old news, you know, gag stuff here. But something new that I ran across. Click on books.
    70:44
    Remember the whole Todd Tucky thing with this company? Oh, yeah. Scroll down and look at the new book they're announcing. Bottom right. Scroll all the way. Point Todd Tucky.
    70:57
    Yeah. Look what they're doing. How shitty is that? The rise and fall of an arcade empire with the face of Todd Tucky on it since there was conflict. Learn the real story behind the YouTube arcade and pinball guru late night infomercial sales pitch man, fist biting, groaning, and some lighthearted insults, Todd N. Tucky. Now 40 years in the business, Todd claims to have hosted over 25,000 parties and sold over 27,000 plus arcade pinball machines that would total almost a $40 million empire. So why does he need a loan for payroll? Is he really broke? Is it an act? Or is the pinball and arcade guru really mad? Read the truth behind Todd Tuckey coming 2021. Wow. I've seen Todd Tucky's quality of his restores. And, yeah, I don't think he's worth any money. But come on. Come on. I know. That's a big old bash. Wow. That's like an expose book that's just interesting. Yeah, wow. The guy that wrote Volume 1, you guys got into it. You know, it's toilet paper sheets. Yeah. But now you're going to announce that you're going to have a book that nobody's going to read about the rise and fall of TNT Amusements. Not a good look. Not a good book. Why would they, you know... What the fuck's up with you Canadians? What the fuck is up? I found a hidden link. The rise and fall of Flippin' Out? Find out why Zach is topper crazy and what... Whoa! Man. What? Bye-bye-bye? Question mark? Okay.
    72:43
    Man, those are some crazy Canadians, I'll tell ya. Holy shit. This is odd. I don't know what to make of any of this. Until I see something besides, like, teasers, I think it's just... You've got to ask Teolis what's going on, man. Where's stuff in Canada going? Well, this is Western Canada, so they're really fucked up out there. Oh, man. I apologize. You are Vancouver Canadian listeners. Do not listen to Bruce.
    73:12
    That's in Western Canada, right? Did I get that right? Okay. Uber is the furthest providence, but this is, yeah. Yeah, I got something right. Geography. I will give Pinball Adventures a little bit of support in that I said publicly that even I, as an amateur as I may be in pinball, anything, I could design a better pinball machine than Punny Factory. And they addressed that publicly on a forum and said, hey, where's your pinball machine at? And I said, give it time. I've got a lot going on, but I'll make one, and it will be better. And they said, well, you know what? We want to support you in that because they wanted to be up for the challenge. They said, we will give you anything you want. You send us some CAD. We will print you a whitewood. We'll send you and print you plastics. We will give you everything that you need to make this to see if you really can design a game better than Pony Factory. So I accepted the challenge. and at some point I will have a pinball machine that is way better than Pony Factory. It's a game about toppers. It'll just be a game that is a topper in itself. I have a question. How do you spell distributors? As being a distributor yourself, Zach, how would you spell distributors? They're looking at typos on their website. Oh, it's terrible. On the top of their website, they have all their links. Maybe it's like a flavor thing. Yeah, it might be a Canada thing. No, no, no, because wait. If you click on distributors and you hover over it, the link says the spelling right way. The actual website says it wrong. Yeah, it's the same guy doing their videos, I suppose. It's like, oh, my God. And there's no distributors. It says Larry Mills, Earl's Arcade. But if you look on the link for distributors, which is right, it's like, oh, my God. That just annoys me. That's me going a little bonkers. Yeah, let's see what their blog says. Oh, I can't wait to see what this blog is. Oh, no. We're going down a rabbit hole here. Oh, we are. How to properly store your pinball machine. Pinball Adventures is on YouTube. Where to repair your pinball machine? Like, you need a certain room to repair it in? You can't repair it in... Oh, my God. The process of manufacturing a pinball machine, which they have not done yet. So how do they know the process?
    75:27
    Is this going to be your new thing, Bruce? Is this going to be your new deep root? Oh, I think this has to be. Okay. Oh, no. Wait a second. Here we go. Cleaning Electromechanical Pinball Machines. And the picture they have is an Avengers pinball machine.
    75:45
    You mean the Genco one from 1945? No, it must be because it shows a picture. Cleaning your Electromechanical Pinball Machine, and it shows the picture of the Avengers. Yeah, Stern's property. Yeah, that's really good. I didn't know Stern Electronics was back there with... Maybe they made the icy chip. I'm getting bored listening to ourselves talk about this. Oh, my God. All right. Yeah, let's get off this thing. We'll just make another train wreck later on. Oh, God, I can't wait. So I have a little note here about as I've been in this hobby for over five years, and I noticed my tastes have definitely changed a bit over time. Yes. And I would say that I'm getting closer to the Zach area. I've noticed. For more of an experience pinball. The fun, yeah. It depends on the era. I mean, if it's an early solid state game, obviously there are not going to be moments. It's all about score. But I will say in the newer games, more and more I care less and less about score and more and more about pinball moments.
    77:06
    Does that mean you can't be my friend anymore, Bruce? I've disowned you. Okay. You're dead to me. That's what I figured. I feel like an intervention. I just wanted to bring it up. I've noticed that, Ron. You have really been loving some of the games that are full, that showcase moments in pinball. I'm like Star Wars through. It's like starting a lightsaber battle. I don't even skip it. I let the whole light show actually happen. And you can't skip it after you're in it. You're stuck in it. You're screwed. Yeah, because you have to actually finish stuff. Yeah, you have to finish the modes. Yeah, what a concept. I mean, when you drain the ball, you're stuck in it. Yeah, you better finish it then. Oh, my God. Finish the job. Finish the job, Bruce. Yeah, no. You guess what? Hold on. When you drain a ball and you die, you should restart again or do something else differently. It's not like reanimation where, hey, I'm back in the same exact spot. I got re-res like Tron. No, the mode is over. No, it's not. You've got to finish it. Finish. Finish the mode. Finish it. Oh, Jesus Christ. Battling the Emperor at the end. Battling the Emperor was cool.
    78:14
    I'm playing my Jurassic Park. I finally got to Visitor Center. That was cool. Hmm? Although that could still use some better call-outs. What about Ghostbusters? Bam, bam, bam. I need storage facility multiball. Yeah, where I can listen to Super Jackpot! And they mean shit. Ten million. Oh, looping supers moment. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Oh, you got to keep it going. Choo, choo, choo. I don't know. I had the premium, and I sold that quickly. Oh, yeah. Terrible game. The pro plays better. I'll give it that. Terrible game. The Magna Swings thing, I don't know what they were thinking there. They tried something new. I'll give them that. And it failed. And they haven't done it again. and they shouldn't. Oh, man, whenever you get that UV kit just blasting when you're in the upside down. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that whole stranger things experience, Bruce, you've got to have the subwoofer cranked up too. Good sound. Start the snowball dance. There's so many moments in pinball, Bruce. You're missing out. You're missing them out. Man. Stars. Oh, gosh. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with stars. Hey, stars has a moment. Stars has moments. Just getting the five stars and hitting the special. That's your moment. Hearing the sound that you typically don't hear. That is a moment. Yeah. That's the only time you hear that other chime, that fourth chime. That's what I chase on that game. Yeah. Wait a minute. You play older games, Zach? Yeah, I dabble. I did by a fathom. Well, he's getting a Quicksilver, so. Well, he hates Quicksilver. No, I'm not. He's getting a Stargazer. He said it was overrated because he has no clue. Did he get a Stargazer? Yeah.
    79:55
    Oh, a Stargazer. Of course, one of the constructive Stargazers, right? Yes. Because only the most pimped games for you. That's right. Well, I'm Rochester South down here. I'm a brand-new Stargazer with a mirrored back glass. I'm saying too much.
    80:18
    Give me original or give me deaf. No. I wouldn't mind playing a new Stargazer just to see how it plays. I'd be curious. Tommy said his played pretty good. Tommy from this flipping podcast? Yep. Tommy Skinner. Yep. Okay. I'll go with that. I just have a little bit of older stuff. He has older sterns, so I know he at least knows the feel of it. Well, you and Bruce, Zach and Bruce, can agree on one game.
    80:47
    Radical. Oh. Although you might be fighting each other for one, it sounds like. I would definitely. No, because I'll take a bad one. Oh, that's true. That's true.
    80:57
    Zach will only take it if it has no wear. I've owned a good one, but it wasn't good enough. Wow. I owned one with one of the nicest play fields I've ever seen, one of the nicest plastic ramp set, but still, it wasn't mint. I need mint.
    81:15
    God. That's the redeeming nature of having these shitty old machines. You've got to have new so that they can at least compare to the new genius that is modern pinball. Shitty old machines. Wow.
    81:31
    Yeah. Oh, hey, let's turn on a game. What do we got to fix today? Oh, wait, wait. When my node board craps out and I can't even play the game? But my older game, when something doesn't work so much, I can still play the game? Yeah, I'll go with the one thing might not work. Pinball Reefers, see how quick that is. Oh, man, Bruce. Bruce, Zach is making me feel uncomfortable. It's like listening to the pinball show with that Delt guy that you were on with. Yeah, oh, that was great. What the hell were you thinking there?
    82:01
    Listeners, he just basically took some guy who hated him and then co-hosted the show with him. Yeah. It's like, what, the first hour he just consult you? I don't know. I fast-forwarded. After the first five minutes, I saw where it was going. It's like, oh, yeah, this is not comfortable. It just looks like Pennside. It was an hour of Pennside. Too many people in pinball hide behind a keyboard on Pennside. And I'll throw it at the media, too. Too many of us sometimes get comfy behind a mic, and we might say a little bit of shit and throw a little shade, but we can't back it up. I just wanted to prove that if there's an issue that somebody has with me, my stage is always open for you. But you better be ready. You better be prepared. Were you prepared? I don't think you were. I was very prepared. But I don't think you were expecting that douche chill moment. Yeah, I was prepared with actual facts. Of course. I didn't know that there was going to be just a back and forth with lack of actual evidence. Yeah, there was a lot of douche chill points there where I was like, oh, God. So you actually listened to it first? Oh, I listened to the whole thing. Oh, God. I skipped. Because at least you were nice. You put the time code in when that stuff stopped and you actually had a regular show. And I listened to it at 1.0. No speeding up. I don't listen to podcasts sped up. Well, you can't. You're too old. You probably couldn't get it all in. I thought it was a good experiment, and it needed to be done. I wanted the results to be better. After we recorded it, I thought... Will you have to do it again? Well, I just thought it was shit. Like, it wasn't good enough for what I like to put my name on, but I couldn't throw it away. Because the minute I throw that away, then I'm going to be accused of, Oh, you couldn't take the heat, so you deleted it. It was a good experiment, as in timed pinball is a good experiment. Just try it the one time. It didn't work out, and move on. I'm turning a little bit on that. The half-shell challenge is unbelievable. I love that. So that's time-based. Well, little mini-modes. I'm talking about beat-the-clock type crap. I'm talking like, let's keep your fuel up or your flippers die kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Wait, but we do like one part of that. We do like one part of that kind of thing. It is like a mini-emode, but if you go by Kingpin, you've got to keep on hitting shots or you lose your strength on your flippers. Is that after you drain? That's after the final drain, though. Exactly. Yeah, it's like a bonus. It's not actually part of it. It's not regular. Where is Kingpin Remake? What the hell? I want it. I want it, but I know the guys. The guys have real jobs and stuff. I don't think. They have actual lives. But the ship has kind of sailed, I think.
    84:39
    No, it hasn't sailed. Eh, you tickled our balls, we were interested, now we're not. We're still proving that mermaid's incel. Yeah, but that would be synonymous with him showing it, and then five years later saying, hey, guys, you guys still wanting people to be like, eh. He's one step ahead of the guys. He hasn't taken a lot more people have played Fathom than have played Kingpin. Third point, too. Because what is there, eight of them, nine of them in the world? You know, just because we played it every year, we are not normal. Most people don't get to do that. That's true. But at least he hasn't taken one red cent. Sure. I have no problem with it, but I just don't know if I'm asking for it again. Oh, I'd love to see it, but I don't see it happening. Or maybe it will five years down the road. And you have to admit, Bruce, that Ellie Translighter Backglass that they tried to come out with as a promotion was hideous. Yes, it was hideous.
    85:41
    And I don't know if I liked it. You know, they're the first ones that really talked about, besides, of course, Cactus Canyon remake, of a 2.0 rule set. Yeah. And it went nowhere also. So they had the right ideas. It was just, I think, real life got in the way. Yeah, so old games are, eh, some of them are redeeming. Some of them are just boring. new games, it's hard to find something I don't like about new games. Oh, it's easy. They've all got greatness in them. It's easy.
    86:16
    Literally, last new game I bought was besides Rick and Morty was Batman. That's the last turn I bought.
    86:24
    Man, you and I just don't like the same games. No. I love Batman. Oh my god. And you're complaining about Stranger Things. Okay. Yeah. Very much so. I can change things when I first start a game. I can do different modes right off the bat. I can change what I want to do. I get to choose. Okay. So the greatness of Attack from Mars and then the greatness of Stranger Things, but then he argues. There is no greatness. Whoa, you're putting words and time out there, buddy. That is not greatness. Let me tell you. Dark Knight. No, I'm not talking Dark Knight. You're talking about the, oh, it's just like Attack from Mars. What about Dark Knight? I like Dark Knight. Okay. I like the shots in Dark Knight. For the rules for a 2003 game. What's your favorite shot in Batman 66? It was in 2003, but yeah. Yeah, it was in 2007. Yeah, it was. Yeah. My favorite shot? Toughest question. Left out of orbit.
    87:22
    Oh, the Lord of the Rings shot? Yeah. It wasn't like that. It was the same design. Oh. Oh, yes, it was. And they never copied themselves. Oh, wait. The only thing you had about Brian Eddy, so copying himself was... They copied themselves too. Proven on your favorite shot of a George Gomez retread. Yes, exactly. They all redo them. We didn't even talk about Sopranos. They lay on top of each other. There were Sopranos in there too. Remember when Sopranos came out, Bruce? People were doing like overlays. They were overlaying it over Lord of the Rings. Yes. It's like literally the same thing. Literally the same. So that left orbit feels good on Batman 66.
    87:59
    I like the rules. It's all about the rules. I never liked how it shot. I do like the toy. Oh, it's conker than shit. Yeah, it's conker than shit, but I like the toy. It's like you put a really cool toy and a crane in it and the Lyman code, and it's like, it's the greatest thing ever. Oh, don't forget, he doesn't like Lyman code. Oh, I like Lyman. No, no, no. Wait a second. Out of all your designers, I think Lyman's probably your least favorite code except for Walking Dead. I was going to say, it's hard to say because the greatest code in pinball ever at this point is a Lyman Shoes game. and it is The Walking Dead. Wow. I do like it. It's a very good code. The game is clunky also. That geometry is genius. That is a wonderfully laid out game. I think because Lemon's code was so good, everybody's like, well, what can we pick on? We'll pick on the John Borg layout. No, I'd pick out the ball coming out of the pops sucks. The left ramp on the premium. Premium Elite is terrible at that ramp. And then you have no other argument after those two. Because all the other shots are better than most of anything else modern. The orbits are fantastic. Through the pop orbit is so satisfying. The riot shot, tight, and where have you seen a shot like that? Maybe you could argue Tron. Maybe. Just whiff around the other way. Another turd. But that, and to start Woodbury, that little back into the in lane. Yeah, I like. Yes, totally great. But Tron. Two magnets. an actual reason to shoot for pops that game is a master here's the flaw with the okay now i'm gonna bash lyman a little bit whoa go the problem with the pro compared to premium le is you don't get the walker bomb in a pro if you had the walker bomb in a pro where if you squeeze the flippers like two seconds just to hold it and get that last thing or if you hit the start button. They could have made it so you ignored a start button restart. Use the start button as your walker bomb in a pro. Then it would be the best game. I would have bought the damn thing as an accessory lockdown bar just to have that code. Yes, I agree. If you did that for a pro, that is the best game because I hate the LE shots. I hate the crossbow. The crossbow sucks. I don't need the freaking redo Austin Powers. Forgettable. That left ramp is not as smooth as that pro. Oh, it's terrible. And when you go up and you hit the head, and it just, like, it makes the whole ball geometry change. And the game is ugly. I'll agree. The game is ugly. The call-outs suck. Yes. But if you could actually make Walker bombs in a pro, boom. Maybe a vault. That would be great. With real characters. Do you guys think we're going to get a stern vault this year? I don't think so. Nope. No. When are they going to make them? Why would you if you have so much demand still? Yeah. The time when they need a vault is when they actually have a lull. Lull, which, man, that ain't happening anytime soon. No. You see it yourself. You see how the production runs are and when your orders are coming in like that, and there really is no break. I've got hundreds of machines back ordered from Stern. Yes, I get it. I know, and that's great. That's a home run. And the price point is what helps out Stern the best.
    91:27
    It really is. Oh, dear. You know what? The dog wants to know what game Zach likes and what game he hates. I love this segment. You like that segue? I thought that was pretty good. That was pretty good. Great segment. Okay. So, game I... What do you guys want? Like or hate? Love? You'd be surprised how many people can't answer the hate thing, which is like... Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I don't really hate anything. list. Okay, I'll start with hate.
    92:02
    Oh, and it's a lime and sheet game. That's sweet. A game I hate would be Monster Bash. Oh, top three. Oh, bullshit. Every time I go to the Pinside Top 100 listener and I see Monster Bash above Attack from Mars or Medieval or something, I'm like, what are you guys playing? Monster Bash? Does it shoot great? Maybe George Gomez's best layout. I'll give you that. Is the theme fun? Absolutely. Does it look beautiful? Yes. But what's wrong with it? Oh, that code. That poor, poor, dated-ass code. Man, how many times can you build up that game to play those musical instruments and defeat that game without falling asleep? This is why, ladies and gentlemen, I'm a moment maker, not a point chaser. I care about moments, and that moment gets dry really quick. Really, really quick. I'm kind of wondering what you would have done in 1999. I would have played The Shadow. That's what I would have done, because that's the greatest 90s game.
    93:09
    Tasks! You're doing different things. You're not doing your spell-a-thon all day long. You picked the only Chicago gaming game that actually plays like the original. Exactly!
    93:20
    And you hate it. Even with, wait a minute, even with the topper, Oh, what the hell. The topper is beautiful. Yeah. But I will not own that game. Oh. I will not own that game. And you think that's George Gomez's best play field? Oh, it's one of his best layouts. Yeah. Okay. I really do. Yeah, because that left orbit, that whip around, easily top five ramp of all time. I'm partial to Johnny Mnemonic myself. I'm partial to that. I like the speed of a Johnny Mnemonic ramp. It's still that George Gomez, right, Lord of the Rings, clunk, sidewall cabinet kind of thing. But it's not as smooth. The left ramp on Monster Bash is so smooth. It's play field to wire form.
    94:08
    If it doesn't come back to you, if you don't have enough strength to get it all the way up there. I just play new games, so I don't. These are old games. Wow.
    94:18
    CGCs are the same thing, so. It's so smooth. The game shoots smooth. Corvette, another very underrated George Gomez layout. And that was his first one. Jeez. Deadpool is his best, I think.
    94:32
    You got a tuned-in one. Oh, yeah, you have to have a tuned-in one. And it has to be a premium. Deadpool is one of Stern's greatest. I was so, so wrong. I ate so much crow on that game. I got that totally wrong. Came out and I shit all over it. Didn't like it. I was wrong, wrong. So game you like now will be... Ron, what is George doing with that Deadpool shot? That little inner loop waste of space thing? What the hell is that? Am I the only one who likes that shot? I love that shot. The Colossus shot? I don't see how you guys can... Al or Zach hates it too. I like that shot. I hit it all the time. I don't get it. I don't understand. Can we not just add a post there and do a physical ball lock?
    95:17
    Yeah, why not that? Then you can actually code the damn thing like they did Elvira, where you have multiple ball lock situations, and you have Gaba angry, another moment. See, I like Lyman code.
    95:28
    Game I like, game I love. Popeye. Yeah, there you have it. Popeye. Go ahead. Hold on, I'll have to mute myself. Hold on. Oh, wow. Yeah.
    95:46
    The biggest donor game of WPC's career. Give me a Popeye over a Monster Bash because guess what, listener? You actually have more to do in the code.
    96:00
    No, you don't. Absolutely you do. You might even have more shots. I'm thinking. The only thing good about a Popeye is owning it for another game, another WPC game. Oh, it's Popeye. Come on, Zachary, you can't be kidding me. Popeye, come on. Let's be serious here. Come on. Stewie, we don't want to start on your Family Guy game. Oh, my game is tremendous. Look, I have my own freaking play field. Talk about a layout there. No, Popeye is great. You've got the wide-bodied goodness, but you actually have rules unlike Demolition Man. And you have an upper play field that is actually fun. and come to think of it, wow, an actual 90s pin that has difficult rules? Hot damn. What's wrong with Popeye? On the fireside chat they had with George Gomez on Super Awesome Pinball Show, didn't he say that Popeye killed it? Just killed the run. He inferred. Yeah, he didn't infer. He pretty much said it. It was Steve Ritchie, wasn't it, on something? Oh, no, you're right. It was Steve Ritchie. I'm sorry, George. Yes, it was Steve Ritchie. Yeah, Steve Ritchie said he killed it. That actually killed the whole... Yeah, our distributor was forced to take it. And they took it. They took it out of the can. It was ahead of its time. I don't know what to say. It must be future time.
    97:23
    You get a wide body with lightning flippers. Difficulty. I tried it, Zach. I was at a show, man, and I played. I was like, you know, I got to see what Zach's talking about here. And I played a few games. Was that orbit not the buddigriest orbit ever? No. The Ousler Ramps. Oh, I love that. Oh, it wasn't. Ah, good, good, good, good, good.
    97:46
    Fall out for great. Knock, knock. Who's there? Candy Graham. Oh, so good. So good. Anytime that people shit on Popeye, I always ask him one thing. Have you beat it?
    98:04
    No, they walked away because they hated it. I didn't want to say it. Until someone beats that, that's my challenge to you listeners out there. You can shit on Popeye all you want, but until you eat your spinach, until you beat that game, then you can't be so negative about him. Most people think Popeye never played it. I think he's L when it's beating him. Okay. When the one can't even beat it and doesn't even want to beat it.
    98:28
    That tells me it's a game that stays in the collection more than Demolition Man's, hey, you want a mode? No, you're just going to multi-ball. Don't be just the Demolition Man. And then you get into the wizard mode, which is another fucking multiball. Yay. Demolition Man is awesome. Buttery Ramps, that's a Buttery Ramp game. It's a sad wide body that's supposed to be a standard body. Like, the right two-thirds of that game is good. I don't know what the hell the other two captive balls in a row are for. Well, Nordman didn't want to, like, use up that space, you know, for... He wanted it to play better. He didn't want a spinning motor that would actually crap out all the time when you plunge your ball. You know, you actually wanted to have a good. If you gave it two captive balls, as if one wasn't boring enough, we're going to give you two. Oh, God. I think Zach just killed that. I don't think this segment's dead. Yeah, give me Popeye over Monster Bash. Popeye over Monster Bash and Demoman. Wow.
    99:29
    Yep. Because, look, if you're going to play, I don't play much location pinball, guys, But if I'm going to have a game at home, I want a game that doesn't get old, that offers challenge and difficulty. And a lot of times, like Stranger Things, that's why Bruce is hating on Stranger Things, because it's a tough game. I'm sorry, Bruce.
    99:45
    It's just difficulty there. We can give you a Monster Bash and you can beat it all day long. Oh, my God. I want something to last in my life. Let me guess. You like the game Tommy. I'm mixed. It's fine. Well, because when the blinders come out, you don't know what's going on. And you just can flip and, oh, wow, this is great. This is like a whole new experience. That is an experience for us. That's a moment. Look, I don't want Tommy because the head doesn't match up with any of the other games. Oh, God.
    100:12
    Don't own it. Plus, if it didn't have the top, you'd be out immediately anyway. Yeah, exactly. You've got to have that silver ball top. Yeah, you do have to have that silver ball top. Yes, you do. Oh, and then you see the words. How crafty and brilliant was that? That was the cool little thing they did, yes. Oh, put it on top of the head there and it reflects off. Good job, Daddy East. That's the genius there. Maybe they could make music that sounded different between their games, which they couldn't do. I'd love a Tales from the Crypt, but I won't own one because I'd need at least two for it to make sense. No, you can own a Jurassic Park.
    100:44
    That was my first game ever, Jurassic Park. See, you don't own another one that would match. No. No, I don't want those two games, no.
    100:53
    Wow. Okay. Damn. That was like, oh, my God. I don't know what to say. It's enlightening, I know. No. It's like herpes. You can't get rid of it.
    101:06
    Ball bag. We'll do the ball bag quickly here. I can't wait to hear next two weeks' ball bag when they're all going, Popeye, really? Bring it, listeners, but when you're actually going to bring it, have some backup. Have some facts. Don't just poo-poo something for the sake of everybody else doing it. Step up. Let's hear your arguments. Hold on. I have to compose myself here. Tommy from the Slippin' Podcast emailed us. Hey. He mentioned about the scratch-built Stargazer. He has a Dragon Fist on location. Oh.
    101:40
    But he just emailed to say it was cool to see Scott, our Scott, like in person, what he actually looks like on screen. As he kicked the shit out of Stu McVicker, that guy, who's gone into hiding now. What a loser. I know. Didn't stream this past week. I noticed that. I didn't stream this past week, yeah. I know. I was doing lawn work for two hours, and about halfway through it, I said, you know what? I don't feel like streaming.
    102:03
    We have an email from Scott, our Scott, to tell you. I love his subject line. Bruce is wrong, which is common. No. When you were saying the Attack from Mars 1.13 coin play version wasn't available when you put it in your game, he said, nope, it's been available since at least 2011 because that's what he has in his AFM. Zach agreed with me, though. We could not find it back then, so I'm kind of with Zach and me. Deep burn there. Yeah, Zach in 2011 when Zach was like 10. No, no, when we looked back in 2017.
    102:37
    It was there. Email from Snow. Hi, Snow. She says she digs Bill Burr as well because he mentioned Bill Burr because he's on the game. And he actually talked about it on his podcast recently. He's on a game. And he said, Stern, where's my game? So he didn't get a game. You know what I did in response to that? I've been trying to find his handlers. Flippin' Out Pinball will offer Bill Burr a brand new Mandalorian by Stern Pinball, pinball machine, free of charge. Free of charge. I can take it up there and unbox it with him and film it all. Yeah, I'm willing to offer $6,000 pinball machine free of charge to Bill Burr. Wow. I've got to get a hold of him. You've heard it here. I'm sure Bill Burr listens to us and will be in contact with you soon. Yes. the rest of them were, the emails were between actually Thorin and Zach about the Flipper Power stuff. Yes. Which I will wait till we get them on before we go into that. Because I'm lost by the second paragraph. I knew exactly what they're talking about. Well, you know everything, but I'm like, uh... Yes, I do. Yeah. And especially the argument where Zach is trying to argue that it's actually better on a WPC game, Fliptronics game, if your EOS switches don't work. Which, uh... Really? Yeah. It gives you more power somehow. But, yeah. I love that, what you brought up two weeks ago about the flipper power and putting a scope on those things. That was really interesting. Oh, yeah. There's a whole back and forth about the theory and why their flippers aren't as, you know, et cetera, et cetera. We're going to go deeper into it, I think. I was on the podium saying four years ago and everybody was like no Stern junk and I always been consistent to say there nothing that shoots like a stern There just nothing They great except for the coil stops Okay All right. Which, that wasn't always that way either. No, it wasn't. That's the thing. My T3 never had coil stop issues.
    104:36
    Look, I'll buy coil stop replacements all day long if I can consistently get the feel of a stern on a game. I will say I haven't noticed any of the metal shavings yet on my Jurassic Park. I haven't here recently either. I've been looking. I had the coil sets ready to put in, but I was like, you know, I'm going to hold off on this one, and we'll just see. And it's been good so far. Well, when you've got that much power in the muscle, baby, you're going to have to replace the ice a little bit. Just that happens. It's the give and take there. Wow. No. Your 90s Williams games, best flippers.
    105:10
    Yes. Period. Hard to argue. Yeah. You can't. Okay. You can't. The things are, like, indestructible. I mean, even against older Stern flippers, like my Iron Man. I play that, and then I go play Attack from Mars, and it's like, wow. Holy crap. And they were both just rebuilt. There's no comparison. I would argue, give me a leaf switch. It's easier to change than a freaking opto system, though. I'll give you that. For the flipper buttons? Yeah. And for things like dual staging and things like that. Yes. Yeah. It's much nicer on the Sterns. Yeah, the feel is pretty awesome. Yep. It feels good. On the Williams ones, you have to get a new opto-interrupter because they wear out over time. They get looser and looser, and you just barely touch the flipper button, and it flips. Oh, I hate that. It's plastic, too. That's the only issue we've ever had with CGC remakes. Those things are built like tanks. But every once in a while, you'll get these weird things with the flippers, the physical flipper buttons. All right. Well, you see, what do their opto-interrupters look like on the flipper buttons? Are they, because Wayne's did several different iterations. There's the ones that are just plastic. Yep. The last one, they have, like, plastic, but it has, like, a metal plate that goes over it to give you more of the feel. That's what it is. Yeah. Okay. That's what it is. And then there's the Judge Dredd, which uses the, the one side uses the weirdest one of all. Oh. I've seen some, I've seen some issues. This was when Attack from Mars remake was being made, but with that metal, that metal support piece was not strong enough. or in shipping, the leaf. It was weird. The flipper buttons was the only issue I've ever really had on that. We kind of got Zach into a tech discussion. Wow. This is the guy that couldn't update his Rick and Morty, right? Yeah. God, code updates. I can't figure it out. You can't have the code updates. Push in. Turn on. Good thing I don't have to push in. It's not that easy on a Mac. Oh, yeah, that's the problem. You have a Mac. I don't know why. Reset the drive. I don't know. Just get a Williams. Yeah, let me try that again. Williams, just get a Windows laptop and just keep it around when you actually need to use programs, you know, that work with everything else. I like being able to run a computer without looking at my watch all the time for something to boot. So now Max. Oh, geez. He's another one of these guys. Okay. You got an iPhone?
    107:38
    Because it actually works, yes. Okay. Let's say you better not say you have a Droid. Oh, God, no. Okay. No. I like nice things. I like things that work, and I like the best of things. I like 3D stuff. I like it because it just works, and I don't have to know anything.
    107:54
    And to be fair, my Rick and Morty, everybody gave me shit about not being able to update code. Guess what? It's because the motherboard went bad. Of course I couldn't, and I still couldn't. Because you probably bricked it because you did something wrong. I still think it did. They claim it didn't. It's just a happy coincidence. Oh.
    108:11
    Game plays fine. I try to update code. It's just that. It's brick. It's just a happy coincidence. I'm sorry. You blew away your motherboard. All the coincidences in pinball. I don't know. Works now. And I love that game, Bruce. See?
    108:26
    Gosh. Yeah. Don't get me going on that. I like the code. Great theme integration. That whole left side, though. Yeah, you talk about left sides that don't work. That is a game where the left side does not work.
    108:42
    Again, easy to hate because it's a difficult game. I get it. Stop with the difficult stuff. I'm so sick of that. I will be happy to play you one-on-one on any game.
    108:54
    And that will happen. And I will smoke. Where is Macho when you need him, brother? That's a challenge, brother. That sounds like a challenge. It is a challenge. I am putting it down. The gauntlet is down. I am slapping you from the face. Do a best of. I wouldn't do it just one game. Best of seven. Okay. Best of seven. Okay. All right. And I'll let you pick first or pick the order first. I'll even be genuinely laid back because I issued the challenge to you. I've never played in a competition before. I know you never have. That pressure might get to you instead of being at home. And, oh, that wasn't a good game. Let me restart it again. Oh, I didn't get it. Let me restart it again. Well, we already know he restarts a lot.
    109:37
    Absolutely. Yeah. That's recent points. Fun. Oh, man. We can make it goal-based. What's that? We can make it even goal-based. Like, you can go for a goal instead of points. Okay. Like, you know, how fast can you get to this mode or that kind of thing. We can even do it like that. So you're basically doing a heads-up challenge. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, so you want to play not based on the actual skill of the player. I have no problem with that. I like the skill of the player, not the exploitation of the code. Maybe I will go four now. I'll just do the old football dance. Like, yay! What game are we going to play, Bruce? What game are we going to play? We'll do it. No, no. We'll do it at Expo this year. And then we'll have plenty of games to choose, including some of those bad games with just incandescent bulbs in it.
    110:28
    Depending on who brings the games there, there might be some bad games there. There will be some bad games, yeah. All right. So is this a challenge? I've got to put this on the calendar here. So we're going to have an Expo challenge between you two.
    110:40
    Oh, hell yeah. So, Bruce, are you just going to pick every early game you can possibly pick? No, no, no. I thought I got to pick the games. No, you get to pick the first one, and then what happens is the next game. The loser picks. So if you keep losing, you'll keep getting to pick. Yeah, you'll get to pick four games. You'll get to pick Stranger Things and Popeye. Yeah. There was a Popeye last Expo I went to. Yes, sir. I cannot wait. How bad would that be if I beat him at his own game that he loves? That would be pretty bad. As bad as you winning our tournament playing TNA. Yeah, exactly. When you made it. Yeah. That I hate it and, yeah. Yeah. I think I'd start with Shadow. Oh, don't do that. Don't do that, man. Absolutely. I do not want to do that. Stick it to you where you're comfortable. Oh, I love Shadow, too. You don't even realize.
    111:30
    You're talking one of the few people at the Sanctum that has gotten to the end at the Sanctum. Wait a minute. You got to the end? Yes. The final battle, whatever? Yes. Don't you get something for that? No, not during the tournament, but when we had the Monday nights. I've been there one Monday night when they had it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right, let's do this quick. Co-op update. When's the CL thing? Is that this week? It's coming Tuesday, hopefully. We're crossing fingers that you will pass. Repairs are almost all done. Okay. Ron came out last week, and he graciously donated a ton of stuff. I'm going to say this. This is really cool. Ron donated a computer, his original rig, his original cameras, and gave it to us all for nothing. And we'll get them working eventually. Yes. And I was blown away by this. This is why he's my brother. It is really cool what he did. Thank you again. No problem. Really, really cool. games are almost all fixed. The CO2 detectors are up and the carbon dioxide, all the other stuff is all done. We got soda now in the house. We got snacks in the house. We got security cameras everywhere. You won't be able to do anything without being filmed. Yep. So we are going to be ready to rock. And what's the date? Hopefully the 12th. That's the key. Okay. So if you pass, it's going to be the 12th. Where's the address, Bruce?
    113:00
    349 West Commercial Street. East Rochester, New York Suite 2985 And the website is Rochester Pinball Collective Or Rock Pinball I think is the backup I think they might have gotten both Now I think And it's on the second floor And if you are looking for it Just follow the rock music Because it's by the rock There's like a rock School of Rock place Right next to it Yep So Bruce are you ready for the last segment?
    113:32
    Pinball! What? No. It's called Sting-Along with... No. Just kidding. No. Would you or would you not buy that? Nope. Pinball!
    113:49
    Market Trends! Did that feel good, Bruce? Say it loud, say it proud. Yes, I did. Here's a screaming goat. No. There we go. All right, we've got to get through this, Bruce. My dad might be showing up any second now. Okay, good. Go on eBay. Go on eBay for us, and we give you a ticket number, item number, and you can look it up, and you can follow along with us, and we will say, would we or would we not buy this? I have only a couple. It's eBay.com, and you just, like, wherever it says shop, You know, the little box there, you just put the number. My favorite drive-along game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crash.
    114:39
    373-037-318-820. It's an arm wrestler arcade machine. Is that Mr. T? It does look like Mr. T. I wonder if he knows this game exists. Probably not. A non-Mohawk Mr. T. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, literally. But just don't put the Mohawk on him and he won't sue.
    115:07
    Arm wrestler, not working and or missing parts. Mm-hmm. Ooh. Okay. Now, here's the funny thing. That's literally the description. It's just arm wrestler, arcade machine, parentheses, not working and or missing parts. Well, which is it? Okay. Now, here's the funny thing. When you go down below and it says free shipping and it says pin bulbs and arcade incorporated, We have some of the best technicians available in our state. We specialize in all coin-off board, monetary pair, and machine restoration. Well, they couldn't fix this, so how good are they? Need board work? Don't hesitate to contact us. Wait a minute. There's five available. I know. There were five, and three of them are sold, and two are available. I wonder if the other three worked. Yeah. Wait a minute. Does that mean they all are missing parts, or they all don't work, or some are missing parts and some don't work? I don't know. his feedback is 98.3 which of course yeah that's not for a thousand items that not the best but yeah $800 Bruce would you buy this not at all okay but I thought it would be an earner that would be a hell of an earner it would be cool if you had like for top rope pinball this would be the game oh yeah he can go over the top this what they should have done is done over the top Yes. So if you turn your hat around, you get stronger. Yes. Okay. Okay, this is a little bit, this is kind of like Toppergate, but not really. Just a little tease for it. Ticket number 224-478-501-548.
    116:50
    It's awesome. It's the new CPR Reproduction Space Shuttle Playfield. Mm-hmm. All right. Okay. So scroll down to the description. $1,750.
    117:02
    Mm-hmm. Shipping $100. Yep. Wow. Rare. Awesome. It's rare. Is it rare, or do they still make this? Well, maybe it's rare because it's silkscreen, because they don't do that anymore. New silkscreen CPR reproduction spatial playfield. CPR made this in 2011.
    117:22
    Ten years ago, the original box, climate-controlled space. bring your project game back to 1984 factory new at DisplayField.
    117:31
    Okay. So DisplayField originally was $699. Okay. Now that we're saving it in the box for 10 years like a topper, it miraculously goes to now $1,750.
    117:46
    Hashtag pinflation. Pinflation. I don't know if this was a horrible deal. It is. It's overpriced for the game. Okay. Think about it. Well, remember, this is Zach we're talking about. He would want the greatest space shuttle ever if he wanted a space shuttle, so it has to be a new play field. If you're going to deal with the bore of a space shuttle, you better at least have it look pretty.
    118:10
    Whoa. It is bad in tournaments. It just hits the spinner. I mean, you get to hear Steve Ritchie talk. Yeah. And plus you get to steal balls from other people, too. Exit pilot one. It doesn't have any misspellings. That's good. $1,750 is a little too much for a play field. But it is. On a game that's $1,800. Oh, I love it. If there was anyone who was going to argue that something wasn't too expensive, it would be Zach. Why is that? I mean, how do you put a price on it? If these, I don't know what the availability of these are, but. Probably not many, but they might be making them again not in silkscreen. It might be digital. Exactly. Yeah, I think they're all digital. Okay. That's kind of why he worded it that way, I think. That it's silkscreen. Yes. And you'd prefer the silkscreen, no? Oh, yeah. Okay. So there's a premium there. I think we can all agree there's a premium that you're willing to pay for a playfield that you cannot find. If that's the case, there's a premium. For $1,100, I'll take a digital extra. If that's not available right now, well, that's possible. So if you're looking to restore one, look, guys, I would spend $3,000 on an NOS Radical Playfield. Three grand. Get the shockers out for me Holy shit Bye bye bye All day long Oh my god Crazy for paying So much for a play field Yes very much so Alright Okay ticket number 283 956-432-880.
    119:59
    Please be a topper. Damn. Nope. It's a Valley Playboy pinball machine, as is. $2,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm not sure about working status. Wait a minute. Not sure? You're not sure? This is the most wishy-washy ad I've ever... Literally. All this says is, Valley Playboy pinball machine as is, comma, not sure about working status.
    120:26
    Yep. But you really got to appreciate in the main picture, guys, to the left of it is another playboy machine. Playboy. Yeah, the stern. Is that the stern one? That is the stern one. The stern one. And on the right of it, it's a Street Fighter.
    120:45
    So he has great taste in pinball. Well, he's really put the effort in as he doesn't know if it works. Can't be bothered to plug it in or take the glass off for any of the pictures. It's plugged in. It is? Yes. The first one that shows it, put it up. Oh, it is? Oh, yeah. Well, it looks like it's in the middle of a track mode, but it's hard to tell.
    121:09
    And the playfield's got just a little playfield wear, guys. Just a little bit. Yeah, just a little. It's horrendous. Yes. this is the fault of our inflationary prices for pinball machines now.
    121:24
    This used to be a four to five o'clock game. Now it's $2,000 in this country. Maybe a $1,000 game pre-pandemic. Maybe. If it worked.
    121:33
    But it's sold as is. You know how many people are, there's 109 people watching this pinball machine. That's the ludicrous thing here. That is the ludicrous thing. I wouldn't touch this thing for $200. book. It's licensing, man. It's a theme.
    121:50
    Talk about a theme that's trending down. Yeah. Well, not for the middle-aged males who will buy this, though. Yes. You'll buy 80% or 75% of the pinball machines, possibly, I would say, in the normal trends of everything. It always bugs me on this. You have this realistic photorealism in the artwork on the back glass, but then you go look to the left, and then all of a sudden there's two cartoon characters. I never understood that. Two? There's the granny Granny which was always on the Yeah but look at the woman to the left She's very cartoony Very cartoony But that is the girl who used to Pull the plunger And she was also on other cartoony things No it is the one to the left of the old woman No the blonde The blonde with the hair on She was also my boy She's missing nipples What?
    122:44
    Next Unless they're just submarining. I don't know. Two more. 3-2-3-8-9-4-4-3-8-1-3-5. A little techie here.
    123:01
    A Williams System 3-7 factory test stand tester. Basically, it's a test fixture. Yes. Probably like a factory test fixture they would use. Rare. It's rare. It says it's rare. It's rare, so it's got to be rare. Factory Williams test fixture for system three through seven games, which is cool. Yep.
    123:23
    Does not use it much. The tester does work 100% with a working MPU. However, the MPU included is not working. How do you know if it's test? You can't test the test. Yeah, how do you know if it's tested? It's like a physical cycle. $2,500.
    123:38
    So it's funny. In the description, Ron skipped over a couple things. He goes, however, the MPU is not working. The power supply is a known working one, as well as the displays. The driver board is most likely not working. Most likely. So wait a second. If he knows that it works 100%, he's giving you two bad boards in this machine.
    123:58
    Yeah, but you're paying for the tester, right? You are. Cash only on pickup. I don't know. $2,500 seems a little... $2,500 for non-working is way too much. It's like when you're trying to diagnose the, what is that, the White Star Lord of the Rings slipper issue system. It's like, well, is it the chicken or the egg? I go and I replace this transistor, but when I replace this transistor it blows something on the board if it's already bad. So then I've got to do them both at the same time or else I'm going to continue canceling one another out. Is that what you're getting to, Bruce? Exactly. Okay. Because it's like, you know, you said it works 100% with the new CPU board, but it says the driver board doesn't work. How do you know the tester's working? Thank you. Maybe the board is good. Yeah. All right, so we wouldn't buy it, although it's an interesting piece of history. It is a history. I would love to see, you know, it would be nice to say, like, hey, look, I have this. Although unless you do repairs for a living or you own a significant collection of Williams System 3 to 7 games. And who does? I don't know when you would have that.
    125:01
    So one more. I think this is actually the most ironic one of all. Because I am ironic. I don't know if you're using the right word, but we'll find out. Oh, it is. It is ironic. Ticket number 373-552-080-298.
    125:22
    Uh-oh. Wait a minute. A Stern 9-ball pinball playfield medal sign? Hmm. It's $30. Huh. It's the size. It looks like the size of an actual play field. No, it's not. Oh, it's not. You are buying a stern nine ball pinball play field metal sign. It's brand new. It's not a sticker on the sign. It's a scaled down play field image. It's dye. I can't pronounce that. Sub-laminated. It's a laminated? I don't see the, okay. It should be laminated. I think he was wanting to say laminated, but it's sub-laminated. Or baked onto an aluminum sign, so it becomes part of the sign for a high-quality baked-on gloss fish. There's still issues with the sentence and weird punctuation and capitalization, but they turned out amazing.
    126:16
    It's 9 inches wide. No, yeah, by 17.5 inches tall. Yep. Okay. It's like a piece of paper. It's like a big sheet of paper, you know. Okay, so now you look at it. The colors look really nice. Yeah. It's a cool little hang thing. Look at the second picture. It's got the seal thing on it. Yes, it does. And what's that Bally Williams seal for?
    126:44
    That's officially licensed whatever. Bally Williams from Rick and Terry Pinball. Well, wait a minute. Why is that on there? It's a syrup bottle. Thank you. I'm confused. Why do we need an official seal? It's an official seal, Bruce. For Stern. I don't know. This is really odd. Thank you. I find the weird ones, don't I? Can you sell this, though, without permission? Or is it because it's Stern? It doesn't. Because it's Stern, I think it's still flushable up in the air. Yeah, it's still always in. Yeah, because no one ever comes after you, so. No. Yeah. Why would they want to license this? Why do you even put the sticker? I'm not kidding. That was the chicken and the egg again. See? Why would you put the sticker on if you don't need the sticker?
    127:35
    You've had no real WTF ads. I feel like down, Bruce. This wasn't WTF. What the fuck? Why the hell is this on here? It's not as good as when you have, what was the machine that every single thing was power coded a different color? Oh, that was bad. That was really bad. Do you guys not agree with me? When it comes to older games, you only play older games. You stay away from the powder coat on classic games. Even 90s Ballywilliam stuff, you stick with the plating, the chroming, the brassing. That's fine. It's not until these newer Stern era stuff. That's where you can color powder coat. And not the parts, just the trim. Unless it came that way, like Roadshow. Yeah, unless it came that way. Like with the blue legs or whatever it had. Sure. Yep. I'm good with that. What about Popeye? You just found your most awesome Popeye ever. Would you powder coat it? Chrome that bitch. Okay, so Chrome. Yeah, it falls in the plating. It does fall in the plating. So I have no problem with that.
    128:35
    Popeye, I'd have to look. Popeye doesn't have black legs, I don't believe. Nope, Chrome. Okay. Yeah, I think just next-gen had black legs. Yes. Some of them had. Or that had black legs, I believe. That sounds right. Yeah, and Brass was Theater Magic.
    128:59
    Indie? Indie had gold-ish. It was a really cheesy gold. That was their first, I think, try for it. Indie? Indie! Powder coat under playfield mechs. Stop it, people.
    129:14
    I know. Sometimes somebody says they restore a game, and I see that. I'm like, you don't restore games. No. I laugh at when people restore. Like, I reflated and I chromed all the drop target assemblies.
    129:28
    Or the new wrappers for all the coils so they look pristine. Oh, my God. I like that. Yeah, you would. I do like that. And my restore does do the power outlet boxes up front. They chrome that. Nice touch. So, you know, when you open up that play field, you know, you just, oh, my God. No one blinds you because the light is on. Oh, yeah. It's like.
    129:53
    LED light. When they open that box and it's just got the blinding light, that's what it is. It's my chrome power supply for my pinball machine. I love this, though. The guy who restored my Totem, Tales of Arabian Nights, the plate where the boards go in the head, he brassed the entire back plate. Why? Talk about just a waste of money. Why?
    130:18
    Wouldn't it be funny if you found out somehow that removes the grounding capabilities of it? So you start having board issues.
    130:25
    I got one question, though. Ron, you actually saw Pulp Fiction? Yeah. Yep. I saw Reservoir Dogs, too. I liked it better than Pulp Fiction. I'd recommend it over Pulp Fiction.
    130:38
    Ooh. That was his previous movie. But you won't watch Marvel movies? I just have no interest. my god what is with you I did like Iron Man but again I watched that because I've been a Robert Downey Junior fan since back to school Robert Downey Junior has been in like 7 or 8 of these I liked Iron Man but I don't know I started to watch Iron Man 2 and then Lost Interest and that was it I did watch Guardians of the Galaxy and then I watched like the first 5 minutes of Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Lost Interest that's the best 5 minutes because that's where the yellow song is So you're good on that. Well, seeing Kurt Russell look 30 was just like, damn, that was too good. It looked too good. It was a little creepy.
    131:24
    All right. Do you have anything else on the docket, mister? That's all I got. That's all I got, too. But how do we get in touch with you, Zach? For those who have stayed with us all two hours or whatever this will end up being when I'm done editing. Of course they stayed with us. They want to see what I'm going to say at the very end. Listen and find out. I want to first genuinely thank you two. I've been a huge fan since I've kind of started in pinball, and I love yelling at you guys on the airwaves, but I was saddened when you quasi hung it up, and I'm so glad you didn't because you're one of the best out there. You'll continue to be one of the best out there, and it doesn't matter if we argue about stuff or not. I respect the hell out of you guys, and you guys are really good friends. So thank you. Thank you for even just having me on. It's been a weird moment for me to be able to come on to the show. So thanks. You're both our bosses, right? You know, actually, David Dennis is my boss. So, OK, OK. Now that that that is actually sad. But yeah, sorry. This is like the Canada hate episode. But you can you can contact me a multitude of places. You can go to TPN, the Pinball Network, if you'd like to, at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. Or if you'd like to watch everything awesome visually in pinball, you can go over to straight down the middle of video series. You can email me there at sdtmpinball at gmail.com. But the most important place to reach me is when you're ready for a brand new, beautiful pinball machine. Maybe a remake. Maybe something brand new. You want an LE? Let's get on the list. If you want a topper, I'll get you on the list. If you'd like banners, we got it all. side blades, you name it. We're even selling the best arcade on the planet. If you want fun, contact FlippinOutPinball.com. 812-457-9711 or Zach, Z-A-C-H, at Flipp, the letter N, OutPinball.com. And for those of you listeners who waited all the way until the end, I'm going to give you a little nugget here exclusively on the Swing and Tilt Podcast. You know all 250 of those Mermaid editions that are gone, gone, gone? Maybe follow, subscribe To Flippin' Out Pinball I have a chance to get one Still Because when in doubt There's always Flippin' Out Nice Whenever I hear that I just think of the When in doubt, whip it out line Oh right Oh man You know what I really want I want one of those cool video boards you can get so you can capture stuff from your Stern pinball machine. Do you sell those? Oh, wow.
    134:12
    That's a call back there. I think I'm the wrong media person. I'm the wrong associated Stern media person to ask about that. I sold them too cheap. Yes, you did, and you pissed off the person too well.
    134:28
    Well, thank you, Zach, for joining us this week. Maybe you need to sing some Careless Whisper by Wham, because we have to name a lot of songs right now. I'm never going to dance again if you feel I've got no rhythm. Oh, you probably meant him sing. Oh, damn. Or maybe we could do some, like, Take On Me. Oh, God. That would be painful. No, it's a bunch of songs, so he'll have the chance to sing them on his show also. I can't. It's got to be on the TPN network. Dennis is such a damn shill. You know what you do is you just do your show, Bruce, and you get Zach on like the last two minutes and just name songs. No, you don't have to get him on. I just have to name the song. I just name the song.
    135:10
    Is that how that works? It does. I think that's how it works. I'm never going to dance again. Come on, Ron. Get your feet and got no rhythm. I don't think that's the line. So it's easy to pretend. Bruce, I know you're not a fool. Should have known better than a junior friend With the chance that I've been given So I'm never gonna dance again The way I dance with you And it all ties in with Deadpool. Oh, yeah. Kind of does. So this has been episode 168 of the Slamtail Podcast. Thanks, everybody. we can be reached at slamtillpodcasts at gmail.com you can check out our website slamtillpodcasts.com all our links are in the upper right can't guarantee I will be streaming Tuesdays all the time because it is summer and I want to do other stuff at this point and we're going to be taking two weeks off and we're well we always take two we're probably going to be taking an extra week because if the co-op opens when it's supposed to I don't feel like recording an episode I want to just enjoy myself for once and not have to do anything And I'll be moving. Oh, is that the week after? Yes. So I won't have no. All right. So you're not. So this is a special episode. So we're just finding out about how you're not going to hear from us in maybe three or four weeks. Yes. So hopefully nothing big and news happens during that time. But, yeah, life does get in the way. And sorry. But we will be back. I promise. People have to recover from this episode. Oh, they'll have to recover. And you're going to be so wasted from it and, like, punch drug love. Punch drug love. And Top Row Pinball, check out their Twitch channel. Yep. That way you always plug him. And also, be sure to watch out for the latest upcoming Silver Ball Chronicles episode, which you can listen to on the Pinball Network whenever we record that. What's this one coming up? Oh, that's right, you don't know? Yeah, I want to keep it a mystery. I like keeping things a mystery. Is that like the Mystery Theater 2000? Or 3,000? That'd be 3,000. 3,000, yeah. One of TPN's hottest shows there, Silverpaw Chronicles. It is. I kind of like it. Almost as hot as Bruce's appearance on the pinball show. I think currently it's number two or three most listened to. Wow.
    137:37
    Bring the ratings, baby. Are you going to bring us ratings? Because I never look at our ratings, so. We don't even look anymore. After we hit 4,000, 5,000. Oh, you have 4,000. I'm still the king of listens over at Loser Kids, so we'll see. Oh, even more than the one? Yeah. Bring a little shilly magic over here. Shilly magic. Wow. All right. Yes. Hi. Fun with bonus. Hi, other Zach.
    138:06
    Thanks, everybody. We'll see you at least within a month. I promise. Yes, at least within a month. Okay. Goodbye, everybody. Say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, new man.
    138:20
    Hold my mind, can you move it? Can you fly? Hold my mind, hold my mind You can move it, if you try Hold my mind, hold my mind I'll keep you alive Oh my
    139:10
    Thank you.