Those are drinks bring back all the memories, and the memories bring back memories bring back your... Ah, welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. It is now April, so thank you for joining the club everybody. Let's do this April proper. So look, it has been a March Madness in the world of pinball. March Madness, right? We got so many new games in March in the pinball world. Let's run down the list. Pulp Fiction was revealed. We got the Foo Fighters from Stern Pinball and Jack Danger. We've seen Scooby-Doo, which came out a little bit before March. We've got The Godfather. We've got Galactic Tank Force. We've got Final Resistance. We've also got these James Bond 60th Anniversary Editions. We've got James Bond Regular Edition. There are so many games. I didn't even count Queen Pinball into the mix. I mean, now the question is this. Now that we have all of these new pinball machines. I was thinking about it in the shower this morning. Yes, this is what I do in the shower. I was like, what happens now, right? It's April. Like we are heading into spring of 2023. And the thing is this, now it's going to be a waiting game. We're going to wait and see how this crazy pinball market is going to settle down a little bit, right? Because what's crazy, if you were to buy all of these games at their top level of trim, you'd be probably writing a check for over a hundred thousand dollars. And the other thing I was thinking about is this. This is now where pinball pricing is going to be for a very long time. So I'm no longer going to moan and groan on each show about pinball pricing, but what I am going to do, because prices are this high, I think we're all going to start looking at these games a little bit differently. I think we're all going to start pausing before we buy a game to make sure it's a game we really, really want. And I think that's a good thing in pinball. I think the days of just buying everything, sight unseen, non-refundable deposits, I think those days are going to end. And I think they're especially going to end if we're not getting a bunch of AAA themes that would make you buy it sight unseen. And when you look at the lineup of games, what's crazy about all of these games that just came out, there really is only one game that is a AAA theme. There's one theme that just rises above all the other themes, and that theme is Pulp Fiction. And we're seeing what's going on with the Pulp Fiction game right now. The LEs are sold out. It's going to be really hard to find an LE spot when they do become available. But the real question with Pulp Fiction is when are they going to make these games? Is this going to be another Cactus Canyon scenario where you're going to wait over a year after you gave your deposit and you're not going to see the game anytime soon? But here's the good news about Pulp Fiction. They took deposits in March of 2023. They didn't take full payment. You gave $1,000 and you're very confident you're going to get your game one day. But when Cactus Canyon came out, I remember it got revealed at Expo in October, like two years ago. And a lot of people paid in full for that game. And a lot of distributors told their customers, the LEDs are going to be on the line in just a few weeks by the end of the year and an entire year went by and people still did not see their games. So I don't think you're going to see that with Pulp Fiction, Ali. I don't think you're going to see distributors asking you to pay in full until your game is near the line or in a box. But other than Pulp Fiction, like look at these themes, people. We've got Foo Fighters, we've got Scooby-Doo, we've got Godfather, Galactic Tank Force, Final Resistance, and Queen Pinball. So like most of these themes are not a take my money now theme. And I think a lot of people in the hobby have been listening to Kaneda and you're waiting and seeing how it's all gonna pan out. If you were to ask me how it's all gonna pan out, I think what's gonna happen is this. I think manufacturing is gonna be the big issue. Because if you want one of these new games, the truth is there's really only three companies that are gonna have a lot of physical product in the market. And that's gonna be Stern Pinball, that's gonna be Spooky Pinball, and that's going to be Jersey Jack pinball. So if you want a game like a month from now, I think you're going to be most likely looking at Foo Fighters, you're going to be looking at Scooby-Doo, and you're going to be looking at Godfather. Now, we hear that Galactic Tank Force is on the line, but the question is this. How many games a month can American pinball make? Does anyone know the answer to that question? You don't. Does anyone know how many Jersey Jack games they can make a month? I would say Jersey Jack has the ability to make around 200 games a week, which would put it somewhere around 800 games a month. I think the battleground is all going to be about access to these new games. But there is another thing that I think a lot of people are feeling right now. What if none of these new games is a must-own for you, but you want a new pinball machine? Well, the good news is there are decades of great pinball machines available for you to buy in great condition all over the place now in the pinball marketplace. So let's just say hypothetically you want to spend $15,000 on a pinball machine. Okay, you could buy a Godfather Collector's Edition. You could buy a Foo Fighters with its topper that's coming out and all of its accessories. You could try to cajole someone to sell you their Pulp Fiction LE spot. or for $15,000, you can almost go get anything else that's come out in pinball over the last 20 years. And I think that's how people are going to start to approach this hobby, that I might not need the shiny new thing, but I want a new pinball experience in my home or in my collection. And for this much money, I mean, for $15,000, you can go get like the best version of any Bally Williams game ever made. You can go get almost any single Stern LE you want other than a few of them. And I've been noticing, right, when I talk about theme and the popularity of theme and how theme is so important in not only bolting a game to someone's game room floor, but also theme is so important when it comes to value and price. So if you were to look right now and try to go find a Ghostbusters LE you can find a single one for sale If you try to find a Batman 66 LE you can find a single one for sale If you go try to find a Stranger Things LE if you find one for sale it going to be like close to And this is never going to change now people We are never going to go back to the period in which a AAA theme comes out and you're able to get it easily. You're never going to be able to get it again easily. And even though the prices are climbing to where they're at right now, that does not mean it's going to be any easier to get these machines. I mean, and Pulp Fiction is a great example of that. It's a $10,000 single level game, right? $10,000 single level game with no display whatsoever. And what happened? In less than 48 hours, all 1,000 of them sold out, but they didn't just sell out. There are now people who want them who are offering $1,500 or more to buy your spot on a game that's not even going to be made for like the next six to eight months. Now that just goes to show you the power of a theme. And as much as I would love to say that all of these companies have overpriced themselves, and I know I say that a lot about Jersey Jack Pinball, and you know what the thing is this, Jersey Jack Pinball, and I mean this when I say it, it's not that they've overpriced themselves, it's that they underthemed themselves. And they did. They underthemed their games for these prices. If Guns N' Roses Collector's Edition was $15,000 when it came out, right? Remember all the fanfare? They would have sold every single one for $15,000. The problem is they under-themed themselves with The Godfather and with Toy Story 4. But mark my words, people. If Jersey Jack Pinball had Back to the Future or The Matrix or Top Gun or Karate Kid, I could go on and on and on. Or Die Hard or Fifth Element. I could go on and on and on. If they had themes that people really, really wanted in the pinball demographic, they would easily, easily be turning people away at $15,000 a pop for a 1,000 unit CE run. Look, if they just made Toy Story 1, they would have had no problem selling 1,000 CEs for $15,000. And we all know what would have happened. They would be fetching $20,000 for those games if they made the original Toy Story movies. And that is why when we see a game like Galactic Tank Force right now, and I'm studying the Galactic Tank Force feedback, We've seen more streams on the game. People are playing the game at MGC. People are having fun on the machine. But the reason why they're not sold out of this like tank version at $11,000, it's all about the theme. This game is campy. It's weird. It has our curiosity piqued. But there's something deep down inside each and every one of us that's like, all right, like it's a fun game to shoot. It's got my curiosity going. But do I really want to own one? Do I need to pull the trigger right now? And clearly there's no FOMO. And I think they did make a little bit of a mistake. They should have had one tank cabinet that was super limited. And then the other LEs should have been a standard cabinet game. And I think they would have sold a thousand of those at $11,000 that didn't require them to put it in a freaking tank. I think it's a little bit of a weird offering because I think if you just want to enjoy the game, you're just going to end up getting the deluxe version of the game because that tank thing is just a weird novelty that's not going to last long but as i'm saying like wait and see how many of these galactic tank force games can american pinball make right and then how long will the demand last for a game like this i'm not sure i'm really not sure and that's the other reason why a powerful theme is so important because you don't really ever want to get rid of a theme you love And that is why, like, on a game like Guns N' Roses, it's my favorite band. I'll never get rid of that pinball machine. If someone made Fifth Element or, like, Big Trouble in Little China, I would never get rid of the machine because I love the theme so much. And I think for Foo Fighter fans out there, they're feeling it. I think for Scooby-Doo fans out there, they're feeling the same way. Final Resistance doesn't have anybody feeling that way. Queen pinball, maybe if you're a Queen fanatic, you hold on to the pinball machine. Not sure there's enough of a pinball experience there for people to hold on to that game. And then for The Godfather, right? If you're a Godfather fanatic, what's so tricky about The Godfather, if you love the theme so much, and I know they've added more call-outs and clips, but if you love the movie, right, and you're a diehard Godfather movie fan, I'm not sure there's enough of that movie in the game itself to make you not want to get rid of it. But I will say this, and I'll say something nice about Godfather. The reviews about the game have been really good. I mean, I've been reading people's reviews of the game, and it's definitely Jersey Jack Pinball's best shooting game to date. It's definitely a game that's rewarding people who like deeper code and stacking multi-balls and having a lot of different ways to play the game. So I think if you're a homeowner and you like Jersey Jack Code and you like the way Keith codes a game, I think this game is probably going to be the most enjoyable Jersey Jack Pinball machine you ever play. because it's going to shoot better than Guns N' Roses. It's going to have code that's familiar to you that you understand how to figure it out because that's the kind of stuff that appeals to you. And it's going to have flipper feel that doesn't feel like mush. So from a pinball playing standpoint, I think you're going to be able to get into this game and enjoy it. Now, I also will say this. A lot of people have been playing Godfather at shows and on location, and it's still hard to pull the trigger on one because I do think people understand that this game is going to lose value. And if they just wait a few months, they'll be able to get a Godfather for much cheaper than MSRP. But as we go into April and May, it's really going to come down to who can manufacture these things, who can put games in boxes. Because with all of these games coming out at once, and us seeing the entire industry's portfolio for the first half of 2023 in such a short window of time, I think what's going to happen is people are going to become impatient. They're going to want to get something new. And they're not going to want to wait six months to get a Galactic Tank Force. If you got a Scooby-Doo order in, you kind of know exactly when you're going to get your Scooby-Doo. Because Spooky Pinball is the only company that tells you we can make this money a month. And we make the games in order of numbers So you know exactly where you stand with your Scooby order When it comes to Galactic Tank Force if you ordered a game you probably are guessing you going to get your game in a few months but you have no idea When it comes to Multimorphic, I think you have no idea when you're going to get your game. I think Jerry is telling people, if you order a Multimorphic today, you will not get your full cabinet until a year from now. And then Pulp Fiction, you know, with CGC, this is what's interesting about all the Pulp Fiction hype. How long can it last knowing that Chicago Gaming Company is nowhere close to making this game? It is kind of strange that they revealed it so early on. Have we ever seen a game that got revealed on purpose so far from its manufacturing date? Strange move by Chicago Gaming Company. I don't like it because why? Like, why did you have to show it now? Because now that we've seen the game, we know they're sitting on a really awesome machine, and a super cool machine. This would have worked well whenever they launched it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like they didn't need to get in front of all of this crowded space. They easily could have sold this game to us in the summer or early fall and definitely had all thousand games sell out. So I'm really curious. Here's what I think is gonna happen. I'm gonna end this show with two things. I'm gonna tell you what I think is gonna happen with all of these games. And then I'm gonna tell you a new rumor that you haven't heard anywhere else about what I am hearing might be the next game from Dutch Pinball that is a licensed game. So get ready for that. And if you're new to the Canada Club, this is why people love Canada's Pinball Podcast because I will give you rumors like this well before anybody else. So let me go down a list of these six games. Here's my thing about Pulp Fiction. I think people are going to get tired of the wait, but they're not going to drop out of this machine. This machine is definitely something really sexy. It's something super cool. And this theme is so popular. Here's my prediction. I think Pulp Fiction LEs, and I know what you're thinking because I have an order. You think I'm Win Schilling it, but no, here's my prediction. I think Pulp Fiction LEs are going to end up trading around $13,000 to $15,000 when they finally get made. And I think that's the same price that James Bond's 60th will end up becoming worth, like $15,000. Did you see the James Bond's 60th got brought to MGC by Tilt Amusements and they got in trouble from Stern Pinball because Stern Pinball did not want any of its distributors to bring the game to a show so people could bang on it. They wanted to make it an exclusive thing for the 500 homeowners. Shame on you, Stern Pinball, for not wanting to bring a pinball machine to a show for people to play. You're still trying to sell all of these. Do you think they sold all 500 at $20,000? They absolutely have not. And what sucks is I hear this game is freaking amazing. Everyone who plays James Bond 60th absolutely loves it. I really wish they wouldn't have done the silly shenanigans around only $500 and $20,000. I really wish they would have made it so more people could enjoy this game. And dare I say it, it sounds like people are having a lot more fun on Bond 60th than they are on the regular James Bond game. Crazy, right? How these two single level games are getting such accolades by pinball fanatics in 2023. what does this go to show all of us that pinball fun can come at us in many different forms and i think both bond 60th and pulp fiction are proof that you don't need a bunch of ramps to have a ton of pinball fun heck you don't even need screens to have a ton of pinball fun so pulp fiction le will stay very strong in price and people will have to wait patiently now foo fighters what do i think is going to happen with foo fighters look i think all foo fighter le's are going to get to customers in the next three weeks. I think that's going to be exciting. I think this game shoots really well. I think the code and animations look incredible. I think Foo Fighters is going to be a fun game to hold people over until Venom comes out in the latter half of the summer. I think the Foo Fighter LE will hold its value. I don't think it's going to go up in value. I don't think you're going to see people wanting to spend $14,000, $15,000 for one. I think LEs will probably stay between 11.5 and 12.5 for a game. I think they'll lose a little bit of value. You know, as Stern gets caught up on its backlog, I think their premiums are all going to lose a little bit of value, but not a lot of value. I think you'll be safe if you go in on a Stern premium. And I think Foo Fighters is going to be a game that people enjoy. I think if you're fans of the Foo Fighters, you'll end up keeping it. I think if you're a pinball fanatic, will it stay in your collection very long? My prediction is this thing will stay in your collection until Keith Elwin's new pin comes out, which is rumored to be Jaws. All right, Scooby Scooby Doo, where are you? What's my prediction for Scooby Doo? So look, I've been hearing from more and more operators that Scooby Doo Pinball is a little bit problematic for location play. So I think we're gonna see maybe some operators start to list their games for sale. I think Scooby Doo is gonna be a game that's gonna be pretty easy to get your hands on one. It's a really casual, easy game for pinball players. There's work to be done on the code. I think if you went in on this game already, you're gonna regret it Because here's why. It's not that I don't think the game's going to end up being fun or good. I just think we're going to see a lot more Scooby-Doo spots open up for sale for less than people bought them for. And again, look, any savings is good savings, right? I think you might be able to save $500 to $1,000 if you want a Scooby-Doo. And I also think you're going to be able to cut the line and get your Scooby-Doo for like $1,000 less than people who paid a non-refundable deposit for the game. whether or not this game stays in people's collections is all going to come down to the code it's really going to come down to how much polish spooky puts into this machine you know and that's what's going to come down to are they going to be able to code a lot of magical moments into the machine that make people want to hold on to it again if you're a scooby-doo fanatic you might never sell it but i think you know the code is going to be the big thing about this game in the long run all right the godfather what do i think is going to happen with the godfather well i've been saying this. I think this game is overpriced and underthemed for the price. And that's just the thing Is it the best shooting Jersey Jack game to date Probably Is it Eric Minier best game to date I don know I would argue against that I think GNR and Pirates of the Caribbean still feel like more cohesive packages Is it beautiful Absolutely Have I stood over this game with my jaw dropped? Absolutely. It's a stunning machine. Is it the Godfather movie? That's questionable. Is it a deep game that if you have a home environment, you're really going to be able to get into it? Absolutely. But my thing about the Godfather is It's only overpriced because it's underthemed. I think this game is going to lose the most value out of all of these new machines over the next like four months. And I think you're looking at a $15,000 CE will probably sell for $12,000 to $13,000. And I think these $12,000 LEs, they're having a hard time selling them because they said they're going to make $5,000. I think these LEs are going to start to trade for like $9,800 real soon. and so if you want to enjoy a godfather i would just wait galactic tank force here's my thing i think after the jack danger stream tomorrow by the way jack danger streaming the game tomorrow i think after we see more great players jump on this machine and the more you see of the code and the light shows i think all of our curiosity is going to start to fade a little bit as we see more of the game and i think once that happens and some of the novelty starts to wear off i think your desire to own this game, if you really, really want a Galactic Tank Force, I think a lot of you are just going to wait. I think you're going to wait it out. I think American Pinball is going to be making this game for a long time. I think the Deluxe is really the version to get, which is not limited. And so I think if you want a GTF, you are absolutely going to find one to play on location or at one of these shows before you pull the trigger. And I think it's going to be a slow burn for sales of this game. I think if you buy that Sig Edition for $17,500, you're going to lose about like $4,000 immediately. And I think the LE tanks will somewhat hold their value because there's such a weird quirky thing. But I also think it's one of those games where people aren't going to really appreciate or value that quirkiness until it's long gone. Like five years from now, when everyone's like, remember that Galactic Tank game? And it's always going to be that kind of game that breaks up the monotony of a collection. The thing is though, I just don't think there's that level of urgency to break up your collection right now with one. It just feels like one of those games, like we're not going to fully want it until we can't have any more. Final Resistance, I just don't know if this game is enough to sell more units of multi-morphic platforms. I think if you own a multi-morphic, you're going to get it. For all 200 of you out there, congratulations you have another game for your platform but with all of these games coming out it just gets lost in the mix somehow and queen pinball i feel the same way about i just don't feel like queen pinball is ever going to get any sales traction with this crowded space and i think so few people are going to be in on queen pinball and that again might be another game where there's not a long run of them and maybe a few years from now they become in demand because they didn't make many but the big caveat to that is there's usually a reason why they didn't make many and that's because people didn't want it and you never want to be there like if you make a pinball machine it should be magical on day one like Godzilla was right we don't we're not rooting for games to have like value down the road we should be rooting for games to be magical and special and I mean that like that's what we should be rooting for as a community we want to see great games that deliver great pinball magic, that create great pinball moments, and that's why I want to keep it. That's why it's valuable to me on an emotional level, not just a fiscal level, an emotional level. And then it's just icing on the cake if way more people want it than there is supply of the game down the road. All right, now I'm going to end this show with a real quick rumor. So here is the rumor I heard that might be Dutch Pinball's next game after the Big Lebowski, their next licensed game. Now, this is just a rumor, but my person says it's from a very reliable source. Now, Barry over at Dutch Pinball, he also listens to Canada's Pinball Podcast. So, Barry, if this rumor is false, will you reach out to me and tell me it's false? Tough spot there, because if he doesn't comment, then we're all going to think it's real. So the rumored game I'm hearing is next from Dutch Pinball is a game that has already been made. It's a game that was made by Data East, but that does not mean this game could not be made better. This is one of the most popular licenses of all time, and this movie is a classic movie, but it never had a great pinball machine. I'm looking at the score right now. It is ranked number 252 on the pin side top 100. It has an overall rating of 6.928. So not a great game. So this is the game that I hear that Dutch Pinball is working on. It is a remake of no other than Batman 1989. Batman 1989 with Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson as the Joker. And my gosh, if they got the assets to this movie with hopefully the Prince soundtrack for that movie, I mean, this could be a humongous, and I mean this, a humongous hit if Dutch Pinball makes Batman 1989 and does it justice. Okay. You heard it here first. Now look, Barry might be writing to me right now being like, it's not that game and I might ruin our dreams. But again, you see how powerful a theme is. If they made this game and did it right, how many of us would not be clamoring to get one? Everybody have a great day. Thank you for being a member of the Canada Club. We're going to have a lot of fun talking about all these new games as they start to make their way into the world. Have a great day. Later. Thank you.