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Episode 304: Fathom Revisited by Haggis Pinball

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·38m 42s·analyzed·Apr 26, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Haggis Pinball announces Fathom remake with modernized tech and new ruleset, expanding facility 400% to meet demand.

Summary

Damien Harton of Haggis Pinball announces the Fathom remake in two editions (Classic and Mermaid) with modernized mechanics, custom 2.0 ruleset, and premium features like full RGB displays and LCD screens in the apron. The company is expanding its manufacturing facility by 400% to scale production while maintaining quality, with 250 limited Mermaid Editions available during a three-week exclusive window.

Key Claims

  • Haggis is remaking Fathom, a classic 1981 Williams game, in two editions: Classic and limited Mermaid Edition (250 units)

    high confidence · Official announcement by Damien Harton; confirmed multiple editions and production limit

  • Fathom Mermaid Edition features full RGB seven-segment displays, two LCD screens in apron, mirrored stainless steel components, and reflective side art that glows under light

    high confidence · Damien detailed technical specifications of Mermaid Edition features

  • Haggis had to manually measure original Fathom playfields and recreate them in CAD because no original digital files existed from 1981

    high confidence · Damien explained the remake process: 'we literally had to sort of sit down basically with an existing original play field, measure out where all the bits were, translate that over into Fusion 360'

  • Martin Robbins (Final Round Pinball co-host) designed the new 2.0 ruleset for Fathom Mermaid Edition with new music and custom callouts

    high confidence · Damien confirmed: 'Martin Robbins...has gone away and written quite an extensive rule set'

  • Haggis is expanding its factory space from 150 square meters to 700 square meters (400% increase) and expanding workforce

    high confidence · Damien stated facility expansion details and reasoning related to production capacity and delegation

  • Haggis uses FAST Pinball control boards for Fathom and sources modern flipper mechs and pop bumpers as off-the-shelf components

    high confidence · Damien: 'we're using a control system from Fast...modern mechs such as the Flipper mechs and the Pop Bumpers'

  • Rick from Planetary Pinball holds the license for Bally/Williams games and will be the exclusive parts distributor for Haggis games in the US

    high confidence · Damien confirmed licensing through Rick and Planetary Pinball as exclusive distributor

  • A friend's restored original Fathom with CPR playfield cost $10,000 to restore; Haggis Fathom remake offers new game with warranty support at lower cost

Notable Quotes

  • “pretty much everything else you have to redo, especially for this era...we literally had to sort of sit down basically with an existing original play field, measure out where all the bits were, translate that over into Fusion 360, remodel it, redesign it”

    Damien Harton @ ~20:00 — Explains the extensive effort required to recreate a 1981 game despite having the original playfield layout, highlighting why remakes are not simple reskins

  • “Full RGB seven-segment score displays...The point of the classic is it's trying to recreate the classic game much more closer with respect to the finish of the game and the play of the game...The point of needing these screens in the apron is to try and convey and help the player understand what it is they're doing”

    Damien Harton @ ~35:00 — Describes technical differentiation between Classic and Mermaid editions and the purpose of apron screens in supporting new 2.0 ruleset

  • “250 of the Mermaid Edition made, and we only got them available for sale for a period of three weeks. So if we sell out all 250 before then, we will stop and not make any more of those”

    Damien Harton @ ~52:00 — Confirms limited edition strategy and scarcity-driven FOMO positioning, matching Spooky fan club model

  • “I have made manufactured and made the first of every component in a pinball machine and then discovered that somebody had already done it 30 years ago”

    Damien Harton @ ~78:00 — Self-aware observation about reinventing wheel in pinball design; reflects entrepreneurial learning curve and design philosophy of innovation through iteration

  • “I need to grow. It's not even a case of me going, well, I'd like to do that. I mean, I need to grow. I need to be able to expand”

    Damien Harton @ ~85:00 — Emphasizes business expansion as necessity to meet demand and fulfill promises to customers, not aspirational growth

  • “Pinball customers are patient if they are brought along the way...if you told you know here what we working on Here where we at right now They patient”

    Jeff Teols @ ~90:00 — Validates transparent communication strategy that Haggis has employed and its reception by community

Entities

Damien HartonpersonHaggis PinballcompanyFathomgameFathom Mermaid EditionproductFathom Classic EditionproductPlanetary PinballcompanyRickpersonMartin Robbinsperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball expanding manufacturing capacity 400% (150 sq m to 700 sq m) and hiring full-time workforce to support increased production demand

    high · Damien confirmed facility expansion, new equipment purchases, and transition of part-time helpers to full-time employees

  • ?

    community_signal: Haggis building customer loyalty through transparent communication about production delays (COVID impact) and facility expansion plans; customers described as 'patient' and 'understanding'

    high · Jeff praised Haggis's transparency: 'you're very honest and you bring us along the entire way so that we can see the progress'; Damien acknowledged customer patience and gratitude

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Haggis pursuing 'world under glass' aesthetic with modern tech enhancements (reflective paint, mirrored components, RGB displays) while preserving 1981 playfield layout fidelity

    medium · Damien emphasized aesthetic faithfulness: 'if you were to walk up to a lineup of fathoms, you wouldn't pick ours out necessarily from the others' while adding modern visual enhancements

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Planetary Pinball's Rick grants Haggis Fathom remake license; Rick also becomes exclusive US parts distributor for Haggis games, indicating strong partnership

    high · Damien: 'Rick from Planetary Pinball is the licence holder...Rick was unbelievably helpful' and confirmed Rick as authorized exclusive parts distributor

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Martin Robbins (Final Round Pinball co-host) hired to design comprehensive 2.0 ruleset for Fathom with new music and audio by Casey

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.116

0:00
It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Join our Facebook group. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile. And you can email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com. A very special day. You've probably seen the teaser videos. What is going on with Haggis Pinball? Let's go down under to Melbourne, Australia. Damian Hartin joins us right now from Haggis Pinball headquarters. Pretty exciting news. First of all, it was already exciting because I saw the video of Celts finally being shipped. And it's such a proud moment. There goes your baby, and people are going to be playing this exciting game, but it's bigger and better things for Haggis. You have announced that you're going to be remaking some classic games, starting with Fathom. That is so exciting. Yep, that's right. Thanks very much for having me, Jeff. Yeah, remake of Fathom. It's very exciting. Thank you for remaking this. I've been saying for years, please, please, begging people, can you make older titles? because buying the older ones, pretty expensive, pretty beat up, especially 40-plus years. If somebody can remake them, just like CGC has done with Attack from Mars, with Monster Bash, with Medieval Madness, been successful for them. What about some of those classic titles? And here you are, Damien, with Fathom. Yeah, look, that's exactly right. I mean, the reality is, I guess we came to sort of the same conclusion as well. I think I heard somebody talk about it on a podcast, to be completely honest, and came to the exact same sentiment that you did, which was, why has nobody ever done that? I mean, that would sort of make sense because they're such revered games. You talk about Fathom, for example, with anybody that's a fan of that era of games, and that's usually the first one they go to. Oh, yeah, love Fathom. Would love to get another Fathom type of thing. So I guess there was a number of things that led us to this point. Thank you for the congratulations on getting the first Celts out the door. That was quite an experience. It's, you know, really, it's the last sort of 12 months. COVID, as we know, has affected so many people, and it really, really did hurt us. We were all massively geared up to get to TPF in 2020, which would have been sort of the back end of an 18-month to 20-month solid, solid hard push from starting from the point of zero knowledge to get to the point where we actually had a game that we were ready to sell and, you know, release to the wild. And when COVID hit literally a day or two before we were set to jump on an aeroplane, it just took the wind out of everything. And the plans that we had based off the back of getting to Texas and to MGC basically all just dissolved overnight. So as part of, I guess, almost the reboot of Haggar's Pinball off the back of the world sort of turning back on, certainly Australia turning back on, we needed to once again set our sights back on future titles and where we were heading. Kelts was always game number one, and the timing just worked out well with regards to the idea of doing a remake of this classic era, and that's sort of how we landed on Fathom. How difficult was it to get that license and be able to reproduce this wonderful game? Yeah, I mean, getting the license itself, I suppose, wasn't too difficult. Rick from Planetary Pinball is the licence holder for the ballet games. So it was really just a process of talking with him and then going through the machinations that you need to in order to make it official and get everything that you need to do. So it wasn't so difficult in that regard, and Rick was unbelievably helpful, super excited about it as well. So that made that all work well. That made that process easy. It was still a process, and it still took a lot of time and a lot of effort, but that was not too big of a problem. The actual remake itself, you know, look, I hear people talk about that with respect to other remakes or, you know, games that people have, have other manufacturers have produced. I've got to tell you, apart obviously from the fact that you don't have to design fresh geometry, you don't have to sit down and go through all the physics of exactly where your components are going to be on the playfield because you're dealing with an existing playfield, pretty much everything else you have to redo, especially for this era. So for a game that was released in 1981, there were no 3D or 2D CAD models of files and components or play fields. It wasn't sort of like, you know, I was able to just secure the licensing and then go, oh, and here's the 3D CAD file for the play field layout. Take this and you can just feed this into your CNC machine and cut a whitewood. It was, we literally had to sort of sit down basically with an existing original play field, measure out where all the bits were, translate that over into Fusion 360, remodel it, redesign it, work out where all our mechs were. We had to redesign or recreate all of the mechs for the game. So as you sort of hinted on earlier, you know, we're making it with modern technology. So that's obviously modern control board systems and it's all modern mechs, all things that are made out of 1.5 mil stainless steel and bent to fit our construction methods, which again are slightly different because we use our hybrid playfield technology which has our combined acrylic and wood layers so our mounting methods are different to what they would have done back in the day.

high confidence · Jeff shared anecdote about restoration cost comparison; positions remake as value alternative

Jeff Teols
person
Celtsgame
Greg Silbyperson
Lucky Delvesperson
Clan Haggisorganization
FAST Pinballcompany
Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)company
Spooky Pinballcompany

high · Damien confirmed Robbins as code designer: 'Martin Robbins...has gone away and written quite an extensive rule set...new music, new call-outs'

  • $

    market_signal: Haggis Fathom remake positioned as value alternative to $10,000+ original game restoration costs, with warranty support and modern reliability

    high · Jeff shared anecdote of friend spending $10,000 restoring original Fathom; positioned Haggis remake as superior value with full factory support

  • ?

    announcement: Official announcement of Fathom remake by Haggis Pinball in two editions (Classic and Mermaid) with full technical specifications

    high · Damien detailed both editions' features, production limits (250 Mermaid units), and availability strategy during three-week window

  • ?

    product_strategy: Fathom remake incorporates modern auto-plunger, improved drop target mechanism design, and ball save features not present in 1981 original

    high · Damien: 'we've got an auto plunger in there now...paramount if you're trying to do a complicated or a more in-depth rule set' with improved drop target reliability

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis adopting limited edition scarcity model with Clan Haggis membership for exclusive early access, mirroring Spooky Pinball's fan club strategy

    high · 250-unit Mermaid Edition limit, three-week exclusive sales window for Clan Haggis members only, explicit acknowledgment of FOMO-driven demand

  • ?

    technology_signal: First pinball implementation of full RGB seven-segment displays and LCD screens integrated into apron for gameplay instructions

    high · Damien stated 'full RGB seven-segment displays. So that's a first as far as I'm aware for pinball machines' and explained apron screens necessity for conveying 2.0 mode instructions

    • 5:45
    And that's the angle grinder going. And that playfield is completely dimple free because I pounded on that when I was in Australia and I couldn't do it and I gave it some good heave hoes. So those playfields on Kelts on the new Fathom are going to be spectacular. Yeah, they really are amazing. I mean, we've had now, we've had thousands and thousands and thousands of plays on these playfields, and they're just, you know, they really are astounding. They get dirty like any playfield does because they still, you know, pick up dust and all those sorts of things, but really you give it a wipe down with some good IPA, and, you know, it's basically like it was when we gave it to you out of the factory. Well, the rubbers are going to cause that, the carbon balls, all that kind of stuff, so that's natural for any pinball, but those playfields are incredible with haggis. I can hear them working in the background there, so you're hard at work. Here we are recording this on the weekend, and it's nonstop at Haggis. That's it. So you got the license, and you described about having to modernize it. I remember a while back people asking George Gomez, remake, I don't know, Quicksilver or something like that, and he explained how difficult it would be using modern parts. And in a lot of ways, some of the more modern games are maybe a little more inexpensive to make, especially if you were trying to recreate one of these classic games just because of the ins and outs of the parts. And I think you're describing a little bit of that. Yeah, I mean, that's right. I mean, the actual mechanics of it, the physical side of it, things fit differently under the play field. So obviously we're recreating the game so that if you were to walk up to a lineup of fathoms, you wouldn't pick ours out necessarily from the others so we've made a big effort to make sure aesthetically it is as close as we possibly can i mean there are obviously some aspects that were made in the 80s you cannot get things anymore and to sort of recreate some things becomes just unbelievably cost prohibitive so there's been some things that we've had to you know take account of modern capabilities and recreate faithfully as best as we can but underneath the playfield when you're now needing to fit more modern mechs say for example flipper mechs the footprint is completely different i'm sure we'll get into some of what we're adding to the game as well but we've got an auto plunger in there now as well so that takes up space under the playfield as does the way we mount our mechs because of our playfield construction which means there's more bolts more you know securing points underneath the playfield so it becomes a quite a big challenge and there are some aspects i might have originally looked at and gone you know i reckon we can improve on, for example, the way the drop target mechanism's been designed because it's very complicated, it's very intricate, it's got lots of parts. And they're memory drop targets too. Yeah, that's right. Smart drops, exactly. And that uses quite a convoluted method to do what they need to. So some things like that we can simplify and we have because we have the space on the body of the mech itself, for example. But underneath, I might have looked at it and gone, well, I'll do this slightly different. But then I was constrained by the physical space I had. So in the end, our drops basically are exactly the same as the original, just with a couple of improvements for things like the smart memory aspect of it to just make that more reliable and use more modern tech. Check out the article on this week in Pinball, and we're going to see video of this soon, but we're just trying to give you kind of a really why you should be looking at purchasing this game because there's a lot in this. But there are two different editions, the classic edition, which think of the old Fathom, it's that. But this Mermaid Edition is, in my opinion, two games in one because there are two different game modes you can play. That's absolutely correct. So as part of the Mermaid Edition, so you can think of the Mermaid Edition as the LE or the highest end version, we've done a lot of aesthetic improvements. So all of our hardware the side rails and all of the various mechs above the play field are all being made out of mirrored stainless steel So it looks amazing We have also introduced a new technology on our cabinet side artwork and our head box side artwork We're now using a highly reflective paint as part of our side art for the cabinet and for the head box as part of the vinyl decals that go on. This is quite amazing when you see it in person. It's one of those things where if you were to open the door to your game room and you had the torch on your phone, for example, the new Fathom Mermaid Edition will actually effectively glow iridescently. It'll look like it's self-powered with lighting compared to every other game in your room. It's quite astounding. So Mermaid Edition has that. We also have full RGB seven-segment displays. So that's a first as far as I'm aware for pinball machines. So they're all individually controlled full-colour RGBs. On the Classic, it will be locked down to just the one colour. The point of the classic is it's trying to recreate the classic game much more closer with respect to the finish of the game and the play of the game. So that is just a single colour on the classic edition. You get the full RGB features in the Mermaid Edition. We also have two, in the Mermaid Editions, we also have two LCD screens that are in the apron. Which is totally new. We haven't seen this. Yeah. You've got to explain this. Well, so part of the reason for those things, So if you think about the RGBs, 7 SEGs, and you think about the screens in the apron, this is all because we have written a brand new 2.0 rule set for the game. So, yes, as you hinted, there is effectively two games that you can play when you own a Mermaid Edition. You can select to play the Classic, which will be the recreation of the Classic rules as they are, or you can choose to play the 2.0 version, which is now a mode-based game. It's got a number of different multiballs, and I guess it's more akin to what you expect out of a modern pinball machine, just clearly with the beautiful classic Fathom layout and artwork that goes with it. So this Mermaid Edition, you've got the full RGB LEDs, inserts, GI, full RGB seven-segment score displays, the tool-less head box locking mech, which is in both. You've got mirrored stainless steel rim, mirrored playfield components, great sound system too, the custom 1,000-watt five-speaker sound system. You mentioned the LCD screens, and I'm looking forward to seeing this kind of glowing cabinet lighting that you describe when you walk into your showroom there. But you did mention the 2.0 code, which you'll find on the Mermaid Edition. I know you've got a great team. Greg Silby is your game developer, did a lot with Kelts. You've got a new person on board who's designing the code for this. Who is that?
    12:26
    You might know him. He's Martin Robbins, your co-host. Never heard of him. the final round pinball. That's right. Yes, he stuck his hand in. And we've got a few other people as well. Lucky Delves come on as our mechanical engineer who has just been invaluable. So, yeah, some really solid new team members, which is awesome. But, yep, Marty has gone away and written quite an extensive rule set. He's also worked with Casey, obviously, to get a whole new soundscape to go with that rule set. So we've got new music, new call-outs. We just had a whole bunch of custom call-outs recorded recently, sound effects, etc. So it's going to be a lot of fun. I've read the rules, kind of the overview, and you can find out more on This Week in Pinball. But it's the daughter of the diver from 1981 returning to the lagoon where her father went missing to find out what happened. And then there's a whole story mode. Not only is there a story mode, there's a comic that comes with this game as well, too. Yeah, that's right. And it's integrated, as we said, with these. So the point of needing these screens in the apron is to try and convey and help the player understand what it is they're doing. So we're basically squeezing down what you would normally get on the LCD in the back box into that space on the apron so that you can see what you have to do. And there's certain battles that you need to do, and I'm not sure how detailed we've gone. We will go into more detail, obviously, and we will have some gameplay videos and that sort of thing. but there's certain hurry-ups and things you have to do off the back end of a mode, such as surface to get breaths of air and things like that, or your air starts to run out because you're underwater, and all of that stuff is represented on the LCD on the apron. Love it. Kind of like a hurry-up, and with the auto-plunge, I assume there's a ball save as well? Correct, yes. There's that, and there's clearly multi-balls and things like that. So, yeah, look, putting a modern auto-plunger in clearly gives you a lot of flexibility with what you can and can't do, and it's paramount if you're trying to do a complicated or a more in-depth rule set. So that was a given, getting one of those in there. It's one thing to remake a game like CGC has done with those three titles I mentioned. You're doing that, but really updating it and adding to it in a huge, huge way. There's a lot in both of these Classic and Mermaid editions. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, as we touched on before, I mean, there's a lot of people I know that absolutely love this era of games, but as you mentioned, not a lot of them necessarily know or want to know how it is that they need to maintain it, because you're dealing with mechs that are like almost 40 years old, probably even slightly over 40 years old, and they just require maintenance. And that's if you can get the parts and components. So that's the other challenge too. So yeah, I mean, just the Classic Edition alone, just with the sort of updated control board set we have, So we're using a control system from Fast. They are a manufacturer there in America who make a quite extensive pinball control board set. So we're using that in Fathom. And as I mentioned, we've remade all of the mechs that we've needed to. So we're using some modern mechs such as the Flipper mechs and the Pop Bumpers to take advantage of those effectively off-the-shelf components. So that now gives people a game that really you could sit aside any modern game and feel confident that you had the same level of reliability and support as well, which is important for parts and things like that. That is a huge part, absolutely. And knowing that these are newer parts and easier to come by certainly puts the consumer at ease, knowing that you're going to have that support. And I would recommend joining Clan Haggis because you're going to want to have the opportunity to make these purchases. Think of what Spooky has done with their fan club, right? If you wanted a Rick and Morty, you better have been on Fan Club. I would strongly suggest, for a small fee, joining Clan Haggis. And you're going to get some goodies with that too, but first dibs at this Mermaid Edition, correct? Yeah, that's exactly right. So as of now, there's probably still close to a day and a half or two days of exclusive access to be able to buy the Mermaid Edition. That's only available to Clan Haggis members. So by all means, if you want to get in and secure a game and secure a limited edition number, then you would best be doing that. We'll then make the game available for sale for the general public after that. So later in this week, you'll be able to jump on the Haggar Spinball website and put an order down for one. Now, part of the reason that's important is we are limiting the number we are making of the Mermaid Edition. So there will only be 250 of the Mermaid Edition made, and we only got them available for sale for a period of three weeks. So if we sell out all 250 before then, we will stop and not make any more of those. Damien, if I've learned anything in pinball, when you have something that is limited edition, look at toppers. Look at anything where there is a finite number. People are going to want it because they're not going to want to miss out. So again, you said 250 for the Mermaid Edition. That's not a lot of machines. So again, get in that Clan Haggis if you want yours for an absolutely classic machine. And let me just tell you a story about Fathom. I have a friend, and I'm not going to say his name because it would kill me. He has a Fathom. It has a CPR. It has all new plastics, new drops. It has probably a new speaker, if I recall. I mean, the cab is mint, so that had to be reworked, repainted, clear-coated, all that kind of good stuff. Do you want to know what he spent on that Fathom? Oh, my goodness. I can only imagine. $10,000. He is going to die when he finds out he can get one from Haggis because this is a great deal. Yep. And it's new, and you've got the support, and you've got the parts. Oh, it's like the happy customers of CGC when they purchased these wonderful classic games. And now you've not only got a classic, but you've got an upgrade as well. Yeah, so the good thing as well with working with Rick from Planetary Pinball Supply is that they are also the authorised exclusive parts distributor in the States. So I will be making sure that they always have a full complement of spare parts for all of the games that we make. And that then means that, yeah, people, exactly that, people can rest assured that if, heaven forbid, something does go wrong with their game, that they can go to Rick or they can come directly to us depending on, you know, where they are or what they prefer to do. and we can give them replacement parts. So you've got that sort of confidence as well. So you're going to be taking orders for Fathom Classic and Mermaid Edition. You're building kelts right now. I been to your facility but I hear it getting a little bit bigger Yeah absolutely Look I mean this is one of the things I guess with any startup company or small company is that the reality is that you start to outgrow your spaces And there's no question that that's what we've done here. So as part of my ability to be able to produce the gains in a timely manner, not be sharing space with the workspaces you can hear behind us, we are moving into a bigger facility. So we are basically, we are increasing our factory space by 400%. So we're going from approximately 150 square metre facility into a 700 square metre facility. And that includes as well upgrading some of our equipment, buying some new equipment because who doesn't like new industrial hardware? I'm also bringing on a much larger workforce. So a lot of the guys that have been helping out in various different capacities up to date will come on as full-time employees and we'll be upscaling the size of the workforce in the factory as well in order to be able to support the manufacturer of these games nice and quickly and you know with good quality control. Well Marty's corner office with the attached sauna is not exactly going to fit in your old facility but you know what I'm all kidding aside I love that you're expanding the workforce too we just had Charlie Emery on who I think universally is loved by everybody in pinball because of what he's done in wisconsin and how that has grown every time i hear about haggis it reminds me of that spooky story of just this guy who is completely honest in you damien and are building this company from scratch and it just gets bigger and bigger and you don't take on more than you can chew you're very realistic and you're honest and you bring us along the entire way so that we can see the progress and that's why i think you have the customer base and the fan base not just clan haggis but people like myself are excited to see the growth of haggis because of the things you're doing yeah and and look people have said that a few times about um you know us being this chain spooky and i and i'm incredibly honored by that because i think exactly like what you said what charlie and and the family and the whole team there have done is is fantastic and uh you know i i love the way they've gone about things and as you said it's just it's just honest and straightforward and people understand you know what the intent is and and and how they go about it and I guess yeah we've been pretty much the same I mean something I will be doing is getting back in front of the camera it's it's sort of dropped off for a while and I haven't been able to take really any videos or do any updates and I will get back to that it's just it's been a very crazy period as I said through COVID and And off the back end of COVID, it's just been crazy. But, yeah, look, I mean, the simple reality is as a micro business, you could almost have called us, you know, I can continue to churn through building couch and pushing them out the door like I have with game number one recently. But the reality is, is it would be such a slow burn. You know, I don't feel like that is particularly fair to the people that have supported us and have, you know, bought a game and are patiently pinball people are just the most amazing, understanding, patient people I've ever come across. And it's fantastic and I love it and I'm so grateful for it. But, you know, I have some pretty high personal standards of my own and part of that is wanting to deliver on these promises that I'm making people, which is support us and back us and I'll make you a quality game and I'll stand behind it and I will get it to you in a timely manner so you can enjoy it. And hence, I need to grow to do that. Otherwise, it will continue to be a slow process and it's just difficult. I could support probably full-time four or five people in this space. It wouldn't be the most efficient use of the space and there's a lot of overlap and there's a lot of dancing that almost has to be done to make use of the facility. So by upscaling and by in-housing some functionality as well and getting our sort of assembly line and our work process a lot more fluent, it will mean that we can get through the games quicker and start getting to the point that I want to be, which is a larger, serious manufacturer of pinball machines. I don't know anything about manufacturing, but I've heard from others that that first 90% of getting a game done, it goes pretty smoothly. It's that last 10% that's the difficult part. Is that fair to say? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, you have no idea. Look, depending on the type of person you are and clearly on the type of person that, A, loves a challenge, B, loves to tinker, likes to geek out on technology and all those sorts of things, pinball is nirvana because you start at one aspect and go, like I did right from the start when I bought that pinball at home and sort of said, I can make one of these. I was a hobby woodworker and I'm like, yeah, I enjoy working with wood. I can make a cabinet. That's fine. And you sort of start down that path and then you think, well, okay, I need some electronics and I can buy a control system, but I've still got to wire it up and do everything. And I'm like, that's okay. I love wiring and I can solder and I can work through that. And just every step you take, every little leaf you turn over, it's this whole new world of challenges and, oh, okay, now I've got to do audio. And I've been in bands and love music. It's like, great, we get to sit down and we get to make original music and this is awesome. And it just goes on and on and on and it just never stops. It's phenomenal, really. It's phenomenal. And I guess for me, you know, I always took it from the approach of, again, because that's what I enjoy doing and tinkering and geeking out, I always took it from the approach of, well, I want to know how to make it. And so I always started with that sort of manufacturing mindset. How do I nail those two pieces of wood together and how do I get that to secure to that and how does this hinge work? And, you know, I went through and figured it out and being in Australia and really not having access to somebody, you know, like a manufacturer of components or another pinball company, you know, there was really a lot I had to just start from scratch and go, I don't know how to do this. I've got to work it out. and it's funny I laugh about that a bit too because I think to date from the knowledge which is growing constantly to date I have I have made manufactured and made the first of every component in a pinball machine and then discovered that somebody had already done it 30 years ago so it's like oh I'll put it out I'll put an LCD screen in the play field how has nobody ever done that it makes perfect sense because you spend your whole time looking at the play field and then I think I went to Flipout, I think it was, or one of the events here in Australia and I saw, was it X's and O's? It's got this game from the 70s or 80s with this screen in the middle of it and I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, okay, that was a thing. Medusa as well has got some version of that. And then obviously something that was more recent was Alien, for example, that had the screen in the play field. and it's like, oh, okay, that's already a thing. Oh, never mind.
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    Move on to the next original thing I've come up with that somebody already did 20 years ago. So, you know, it's been fantastic and it's been enjoyable, but my goodness, yes, to get back to your original question, it's a lot of work. Not only then do you go, okay, I've figured out how to do it. You don't have to go, right, now I need to figure out how I make 50 of those in a month. and all of a sudden then you look into what is probably more the real nuts and bolts of manufacturing, which is supply chain and cash flowing and managing all of these various aspects that have all got to come together at the same time so that you can put these thousands and thousands of parts into a pinball machine and put it in a box. So, yeah, outstandingly difficult. But the fact that you're expanding could actually definitely help you because you're not one guy or four people putting this together. There are so many different things that have to be done right now, and you can only do so much, whereas now you can delegate. No, look, that's exactly right. I mean, if I was to look at the one thing that I was probably been lacking over the last 12 months, it's time. I mean, I'm time poor because as we continue to try to expand the brand and we try to get more people to be aware of us and we make sales as well. So I've got, you know, I've got sales there for games that I need to build. There's admin and there's responding to inquiries and there's a whole bunch of things, you know, dealing for Fathom, dealing with Rick and the licensing and all those sides of things and all the other components. I find that I'm getting less and less and less time to actually go down to the factory and, right, I've got to cut cabinets. I've got to glue them together. I've got to, you know, clamp them up. I've got to get them ready. I've got to get them out the door so they can get their paint and et cetera, et cetera. I've got to start screwing together play fields. That time is really starting to become extremely precious and is dissolving in front of me. And again, that's right. That's part of the need to expand. So it's now I've got the next task and the next process, which is taking all of those individual bits that are in my head and are in various degrees of documentation that now needs to be extrapolated out and given over to a workforce of people that can do the various tasks that are required. So, yeah, it's just a given. I mean, I need to grow. It's not even a case of me going, well, I'd like to do that. I mean, I need to grow. I need to be able to expand. And, you know, that's what we want to do. So it just the timing is perfect Pinball customers are patient Damien if they are brought along the way if they told you know here what we working on Here where we at right now They patient And certainly, Haggis is a smaller pinball company. But if you look at the larger pinball companies, look at how long games are taking to be built. I mean, it's a great problem to have that you have that many back orders. But the problem is you have back orders. And it's fine because those people are, sure, a little impatient. I want to flip. I want it now. but they know, okay, I'm going to get it in whatever amount of time, how many ever months it takes to get the game here. We're used to that. So what you've done with Kelts, what you're going to be doing with Fathom, it's not new in the pinball industry. But do we have any kind of timeline for when people place an order on Fathom when they might receive their games? Yep. So as part of the commitment to the orders that we get and as part of, as we're showing that we're expanding to move into this space so we can accommodate it, there will be an order of manufacturing. So the first thing is that all the Kelks games will get built first, obviously. So every one of those games will go out the door before we start making Fathom. Fathom will then be manufactured in order of Mermaid Edition and then Classic Edition. I need to talk to the Haggis Classic Series as well. That'll fit in there as well. And we are estimating that we'll be able to produce 50 games a month. That's a great number. Yeah, correct. So 50 games a month. So if we say, for example, we sold all of our 250 Mermaid editions, you'd be looking inside of six months if you were the last person to receive one. That's not that bad. I mean, I can think of some major titles, major companies that are six months easily, maybe a little longer. So that's great news. And again, you bring them along the way and let them know where they stand makes it good. Now, this is exciting that you're doing this with Fathom. An absolutely spectacular title. I'm so excited to see this new version, especially with the Mermaid Edition, especially with the 2.0 code from Martin Robbins and your entire team, the growth of Haggis. But there's more. I mean, this is the first title that you've worked together with Planetary Pinball. So I know there are other titles in the works, but there are five in total that are going to be coming from Haggis Pinball. Yes, that's completely right. So this is our Haggis Classics line, if you like. and we have a five-title agreement in place at the moment. So we are committing to making five of these classic games that I'm sure a lot of people can probably think about what other games would fit within the wheelhouse of Fathom and that era. So my head's spinning right now.
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    But I also know that you've been developing another original game from Haggis. So what's the timeline of that? Are you going to finish the Celts run, work on the Fathoms, and then is it going to be the next original game or are you going to do another classic series? So we are working on the basis if we were making 250 of our LE version of each of our classics line, then that would take six months to produce. So the plan is to start production on Fathom 1st of July. That will get us through to the end of the year, which we'd be then releasing our second classics game. And the next title that we're working on as well, which is still percolating in the background, that at the moment is slated for release around tpf in 2022 so we've lost a year there haven't we because of covid thank you very much so yeah so that that's the plan at the moment yeah that's too bad and not only the covid thing but for those that don't know in australia that was a hard hard lockdown no one goes to work so you know when you talk about delays that you've had to go through with anything. I mean, that certainly was a big factor. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the doors were officially, you weren't allowed to open the doors for like a period of seven months. You weren't allowed to leave your house for more than five kilometres, three miles. Yeah, you're allowed an hour of outdoor exercise, I think, was for most people, by yourself. So yeah, look, it was a hard lockdown and I think we're in a good place right now. I mean, really at the moment, there's no restrictions at all. I think the only one left is if you're on public transport, you need to wear a mask. Other than that, every other venue is, you know, you don't need masks anymore. And I think they just released, they just lifted the cap. So the MCG, which is our main sporting ground here in Melbourne, they just released the cap on numbers for that. So there's a big football game coming up in a few days for Anzac Day and they've just released the cap. That game normally is sold out with 100,000 plus people and it had previously been at 80% capacity, I think, or 70%. So that's been lifted. So, yeah, we did it hard, and it was particularly hard, as I said, on Haggis because of the timing and everything else, but I think we're pretty happy about it at the moment. Okay, so you've given us a little bit of the timeline here. Kelts are going to finish, Fathoms are going to be ordered, and then we're going to actually have the Classics too, but we mentioned there are five ballet titles. You have something called the Classics Ticket. Can you explain that? Yeah, Haggis Classics, I don't quite know how to term it yet. Classic Series Ticket or something. But basically, if you're interested and you are prepared to commit to every one of those five titles, then what we will do is we will lock away your number across all five of those games. So if you had your preference to be game number 10 or 15 or 39, then we will lock that number away across all five games. So what we do for that is we ask for the deposits for those next four titles. all that deposit money gets put in escrow so it doesn't get touched until we get to the point of releasing that next title but it obviously qualifies you for the series ticket. You'll get an extra unique plaque on your game that shows that it's part of the series ticket. As I said, you'll lock away your number and we're also working on some small extra little bonuses that we'll make available only to the classic series ticket holders. And also in the manufacturing ordering line, if you're a series ticket holder, you'll get your games manufactured first then followed by the Mermaid Edition, then followed by the Classic Edition. I'm not saying something that hasn't been noticed before. I mean, Pinside notices it, Market Trends notices it. Anybody who's into the pinball hobby has seen what has happened over the last, let's say, 12 months, maybe 18 months. The price of used games are now almost equal to new in box. So here you are with this Fathom Edition and other Bally titles soon to be recreated and enhanced with 2.0 code. This makes a lot of sense. If this is a game you've wanted, certainly consider Haggis Pinball and these classic tickets, if you will, or the Mermaid Edition. But get on board because you don't want to miss out, especially for the Limited Edition. So very impressed by what you're doing, and certainly a huge growth for Haggis Pinball. People are going to want to know the pricing. And I know, again, we mentioned go to This Week in Pinball. There's a lot of details there, too, if you want to read up on them. and a teaser video soon to follow this week with Haggis Pinball. But give some idea of the pricing and what needs to be put down and what kind of shipping we have to look at and things like that. Yep, not a problem. So for our Mermaid Edition for Fathom, it is priced at $11,500 Australian, before everybody falls over, as Australian dollars, which works out to approximately $8,900 US. and our classic edition is for sale for $9,500 Australian, which works out to just a little over $7,000 US. For the mermaid edition, we will be including as part of that shipping to the States. So Rick at Planetary will be acting as a distribution agent for us over there, so basically a spot where we can send games. So as part of a mermaid or a ticket holder, you will get the games Stateside at no cost and then you only have to worry about shipping costs domestically within America. So that's a good thing. And if you're in Nevada, you just go pick it up. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. All we need is the same similar thing what we did for Couch. It's a $1,500 Australian deposit that goes down. It is a non-refundable deposit. Again, I guess in a similar way that Spooky works, we are still a small company and we rely on that deposit money to start making your game for you. So you need to treat that, I guess, as a commitment. And to us, the same way we commit to making sure we get you a game that meets all of your expectations. So that's a $1,500 deposit for Fathom. And then if you want to be a series ticket holder, as I briefly mentioned before, then you need to put down a $1,500 deposit for each of those subsequent four titles. And that money, as I said, gets put into escrow. So if for some reason, you know, whatever happens, those games don't eventuate, then you get all that deposit money back. but it's basically just a way for again for you to commit to us to know that we've got those number of sales coming up for the future titles and yeah as you mentioned if you if you're a fan of fathom then i think it's pretty safe to say that you you're going to be a big fan of the of the ones that will follow as well you better join clan haggis that's all i know if you haven't already yeah these games are absolutely brilliant i'm so excited for what you're doing damien congratulations to you and everybody at haggis pinball thank you very much thank you very much appreciate it a lot This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. Find us on Twitter and Instagram at pinballprofile. Join our Facebook group and emails pinballprofile at gmail.com. I'm Jeff Teolis. Ah, nature, mermaids, release.
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    Mermaids trapped.