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Episode 924: "Topper Prices Top Topper Prices"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·13m 23s·analyzed·Mar 13, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.027

TL;DR

Kaneda rails against Stern's accessory pricing as insulting greed; warns market correction coming.

Summary

Kaneda expresses severe frustration with Stern Pinball's escalating accessory pricing, citing a Foo Fighters topper at $2,000 (up from $500 for Black Knight), $225 shooter knobs, and $100 art blade stickers as evidence of corporate greed and contempt for the community. He attributes the pricing strategy to CEO Seth Davis capitalizing on pandemic-era secondary market behavior, argues the distributor middleman model is unnecessary for accessories, and warns that price fatigue will eventually crash Stern's market unless they recalibrate value proposition. He also briefly flags audio quality issues with Pulp Fiction's movie call-outs.

Key Claims

  • Foo Fighters topper costs $2,000; Black Knight topper re-release went from $500 to $1,500

    high confidence · Kaneda, opening segment discussing current Stern pricing

  • Black Knight topper originally cost Stern ~$200-$250 to manufacture based on prior $500 retail profitability

    medium confidence · Kaneda's inference about cost structure; stated as logical deduction

  • Shooter knob costs $225; art blade stickers cost $100 for two decals

    high confidence · Kaneda, mid-episode pricing breakdown

  • Seth Davis, new CEO at Stern, is driving the aggressive pricing strategy

    medium confidence · Kaneda, mid-episode attribution of pricing decisions to CEO leadership

  • Pulp Fiction's movie audio call-outs sound poor; described as 'someone held a microphone up to a TV'

    medium confidence · Kaneda citing owner feedback and contrasting with David Thiel's claim that game sounds amazing

  • A fully loaded Spooky machine costs ~$12,000; Barrels of Fun machines similar pricing tier

    medium confidence · Kaneda comparing boutique manufacturer pricing to Stern; round estimates

  • Five LE machines used to cost ~$25,000 total; now cost ~$75,000

    low confidence · Kaneda, nostalgic pricing comparison; not tied to specific machines/dates

  • Distributors are taking cuts on topper sales, inflating end-user price

    medium confidence · Kaneda questioning the distributor markup model for accessories

  • Stern is using the same topper mechanism across Black Knight and Foo Fighters; no original R&D

    medium confidence · Kaneda's observation based on visual/mechanical inspection

  • Price fatigue will eventually force market correction and Stern revenue collapse unless value is restored

Notable Quotes

  • “Stern Pinball thinks we're all idiots. Like these are idiot prices. These are idiotic amounts of money to spend on such little things.”

    Kaneda @ early segment — Sets tone for the episode; core thesis about perceived corporate contempt

  • “at what point are they just telling us we're idiots and we're fools and we will buy anything?”

    Kaneda @ mid-opening — Rhetorical question capturing frustration with consumer complicity

  • “They controlled the supply. And there was way more demand than supply. And they took all of that behavior... and they said hey we could get that money for ourselves”

    Kaneda @ mid-episode — Alleges intentional strategy shift driven by observing secondary market behavior during COVID

  • “a Stern pinball machine is more expensive from Stern themselves than a Jersey Jack pinball collector's edition”

    Kaneda @ mid-episode — Comparative pricing insight; calls out value inversion vs. competitors

  • “We're basically paying for nothing. We're absolutely paying for nothing.”

    Kaneda @ distributor criticism segment — Challenges middleman model's utility for low-maintenance accessories

  • “One shooter knob from Stern Pinball... is the price of four years of Canada's Pinball Podcast”

    Kaneda @ late-episode — Personal value comparison highlighting pricing absurdity through own pricing model

  • “Stern is not reading the room people are turning away from them their business model is not going to last much longer”

    Kaneda @ mid-episode — Prediction of market failure; signals growing community sentiment shift

  • “The reason why this hobby survived for so many years over the last 10 to 20 years is that value was passed on to the customer. Things were still collectible. That is gone.”

    Kaneda @ closing argument segment — Frames pricing crisis as existential threat to hobby's historical value proposition

Entities

Stern PinballcompanySeth DavispersonKanedapersonJersey Jack PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyBarrels of FuncompanyDavid ThielpersonFoo Fighters (topper)product

Signals

  • $

    market_signal: Stern accessory prices have increased dramatically: toppers from $500→$1,500→$2,000; shooter knobs $225; sticker art $100. Kaneda argues MSRP now exceeds product cost by 10x-20x, and that secondary market behavior during COVID inspired Stern to capture margin themselves rather than let resellers profit.

    high · Direct price comparisons; timeline of Black Knight topper escalation; Foo Fighters at $2,000 vs. $500 original Black Knight

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Kaneda reports widespread community exhaustion with pricing; predicts imminent market correction if value is not restored. He frames pricing fatigue as a key factor driving customers away from Stern.

    high · Repeated statements: 'everyone's just feeling this fatigue,' 'people are turning away from them,' 'we all know what's going to happen next,' 'price fatigue will eventually crash Stern's market'

  • ?

    business_signal: Kaneda attributes aggressive pricing to Seth Davis (new CEO) and suggests a deliberate strategy pivot to capture secondary market profits directly from Stern rather than allowing reseller markups.

    medium · Direct attribution: 'So much of this is coming from Seth Davis, the new CEO over at Stern Pinball'; analysis of pandemic-era behavior observation → strategy change

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple Pulp Fiction owners report poor audio quality on movie call-outs, described as sounding like 'someone held a microphone up to a TV.' David Thiel (designer) claims game sounds amazing, creating credibility conflict.

    medium · Owner feedback: 'sound really bad,' 'sounds like someone held a microphone up to a TV that was playing the Pulp Fiction movie.' Contrast with David Thiel's claim. Original call-outs sound good per Kaneda.

Topics

Stern accessory pricing and perceived greedprimarySecondary market inflation and distributor marginsprimaryCommunity sentiment and market fatigueprimaryCost-of-entry across pinball tiers (Stern vs. boutique manufacturers)primaryPulp Fiction audio quality issuessecondaryCollectibility and hobby value proposition erosionprimaryCEO-driven strategic direction at SternsecondaryTexas Pinball Festival upcoming coveragementioned

Sentiment

negative(-0.92)— Kaneda is deeply frustrated and exhausted by Stern's pricing strategy, corporate leadership, and the community's complicity. He uses words like 'idiot prices,' 'greediness,' 'insulting,' and 'bonkers.' His tone oscillates between angry rant and resigned prediction of market collapse. He is not angry at the community itself but disappointed by their acceptance of price escalation. Minor positive sentiment only when contrasting his own reasonable Patreon pricing model. Overall sentiment is overwhelmingly critical and pessimistic about industry trajectory.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.040

Oh baby, please give me respect to you again. Welcome everybody to Canadian Pinball Podcast. I want to start out today's show by telling you I'm never going to raise the price of this show. I'm not going to change the price from $5 to $10. I'm not going to get greedy. I know what this show is worth and I think you get more than your money's worth and that's why we have so many people here every single week and I'm looking at this Foo Fighters topper and I'm saying to myself well wait a minute how come when the Black Knight topper came out it was like $500 and now they re-released the Black Knight topper at $1,500 and now we've got the Foo Fighters topper which is basically the same exact topper as the Black Knight topper I don't even think it does as much as the Black Knight Topper. And all of a sudden it's $2,000. And I just want to say this right now. I'm just exhausted by Stern and their greediness and the apologists who defend these moves. I don't think many people are defending these moves anymore. It's just gotten to the point now where Stern Pinball thinks we're all idiots. Like these are idiot prices. These are idiotic amounts of money to spend on such little things. I encourage everybody to walk through a Walmart. Go to a Costco. Go to your local toy store and see what you can get for like 500 bucks if you want to buy your kid a toy. See all the flashing lights, the movement, the Xbox, the PlayStation 5 you can get. You could get stuff for $100 in a toy store that's doing what these things are doing on top of these stern machines. And I don't even know what makes me more upset. Is it the $2,000 topper? I'm not really that upset about it, by the way, because all this is doing, And I think it's doing it to a lot of you. It's just making it easier to not support a company like Stern Pinball. $2,000 for this topper. And then I look at this shooter knob, a freaking knob, people. This is just plastic made from a mold. The second you make one, you can make $10,000 easily. And they want to charge you $225, right? almost half the price of an Xbox for a shooter knob. And you have to ask yourselves, at what point are they just telling us we're idiots and we're fools and we will buy anything? So much of this is coming from Seth Davis, the new CEO over at Stern Pinball. It's like they watched everything happening during COVID. They watched people going crazy, right? Spending two, $3,000 on Black Knight toppers. And the only reason why we ever had to spend that much on a Black Knight topper, do you know the reason why? Because Stern wouldn't make more. They controlled the supply. And there was way more demand than supply. And they took all of that behavior. They watched us acting like idiots, spending like $4,000 on Ghostbuster toppers, which cost them $200 to make in China. They saw all of this behavior. and they said hey we could get that money for ourselves Let not let those people have the money Let take it in And so now we have where we at today We have Stern Pinball charging way more for everything It's not just toppers. It's not just shooter knobs. It's everything. The fact that you could take a Stern Pinball machine that's $13,000 for an LE, and then you add a $2,000 topper and a $224 shooter knob, And now all of a sudden, a Stern pinball machine is more expensive from Stern themselves than a Jersey Jack pinball collector's edition. And if you put those two machines next to each other, put a Foo Fighters next to an Elton John, and you're going to tell me the Stern is worth just as much money? Both of these companies are playing in la-la land right now. It's over. Like, all of it's over. We all know all too well that these things are way overpriced. Nothing is rare. Nothing is scarce. The only way Stern could ever charge $2,000 for a topper is if they announced they were only making like 500 of them or 250, but we don't know how many they're going to make. And you know this, people. How much do you think? Let's ask this question. How much do you think? How much do you think they pay Stern for a $2,000 topper? Remember that. A distributor is getting a cut on every topper sold. Now, let me ask you this question. Why should a topper even have to go through a distributor? Why should we have to pay a middleman to get our hands on something that goes inside a tiny little box? It's not like you're going to have a ton of issues with your topper. You're going to need to have like replacement parts sent for your topper. We're basically paying for nothing. We're absolutely paying for nothing. I understand paying a distributor for a game because they can help you out if the game has issues. But we're paying a premium just to have a middleman sell you a topper? Stern can't mail us these toppers? We couldn't just buy this thing on Amazon for $500 and have it dropped off at our door? And I think everyone's just feeling this fatigue. I don't know. Is it just me? I don't think so. I don't think so. And what's going to happen next? We're going to get a topper for Jaws a year from now for $2,000? Stern is not reading the room people are turning away from them their business model is not going to last much longer and it's kind of funny to watch this and I encourage each and every one of you just wait it out like wait and see is the only way to go right now it's going to make everybody save thousands of dollars and you're not going to have any problems ever getting a Foo Fighters topper or a shooter knob or expression lighting for $500 or side armor for $250, art blades for $99. Think about that for a minute. That's two stickers. Just for two stickers that go on the inside of a Stern Pro for Foo Fighters, you're going to spend $100 for two decals. This must be the highest profit margin on any Stern item ever. It's two stickers. At most, this is costing Stern like $10 at most, and they're going to charge you $100. Distros are getting a cut on a sticker I mean everybody we need to wake up We need to wake up And I know you have woken up but man this is where we at with pinball in 2024. And it's just going to only get worse because I think they're not reading the room. I don't think they care. I think they're going to see how stupid we really are. It's like an insult to the community that Stern has turned pinball into this. And now there's nowhere else to go. And it's almost like the boutiques probably like this because Stern has raised the ceiling so high. Now all the boutique companies are charging us like $10,000 or more for their games. Like you add up a spooky pinball machine fully loaded, it's almost $12,000. Same thing with barrels of fun, $12,000, 12 here, 12 here, 15 here. At what point does everybody say, what have I done? What have I done? Honey, I just bought five pinball machines. I didn't realize I just spent $75,000. Heck, what happened to this hobby? I used to buy five machines and it was $25,000. And I'm talking LEs back in the day. What has gone on in pinball is absolutely inane and it is ridiculous. And it's just funny to watch. Like it is funny to watch this stuff happen. And so here's the deal. I wouldn't go anywhere near these accessories right now. Even if you love Foo Fighters, just wait because we all know what's going to happen next. These distributors are going to be stockpiling games. They're going to be stockpiling accessories. And I think we all need to send a message to Stern Pinball and all these distributors that they have to get together and they have to force these companies to lower the prices and stop ripping us off. $225 for a shooter knob. It has gone insane, people. It's just, what, are you getting your money's worth? I mean, it's absolutely bonkers. One shooter knob from Stern Pinball that they can make in a nanosecond, one shooter knob is the price of four years of Canada's Pinball Podcast. Just think about that for a minute. Four years of this podcast, and they make that selling one shooter knob, and that's where we're at. Don't even get me started on the freaking Foo Fighters topper. And by the way, people, it's the same exact mechanism as the freaking mechanisms from the Black Knight topper. So think about that as well. They're not even R&Ding an original sort of mechanism or topper. It's the same thing. I bet they went to the same company where they used to make a profit selling the Black Knight topper for $500. I bet you Stern is only spending $200, $250 on these toppers at most. You know why I know that? How could they sell the Black Knight topper for a profit for 500 bucks? Do you think they were losing money on every one sold? Absolutely not. So now they're going back to this company and saying, hey, make us another, make us another. And I bet that company has charged Stern incrementally more for each one made. And Stern is now turning to us and charging us two to three times more money on what the item should cost. And here we are, 2024 pinball. Canada just can't believe this stuff. What else is going on this week? We did a show yesterday. The next thing I want to talk about, for us Pulp Fiction fans out there, it looks like the verdict is clear. The audio clips from the movie don sound good Owners are getting their games They sound really bad As people are saying it sounds like someone held a microphone up to a TV that was playing the Pulp Fiction movie It's not good. And I think they're going to have to solve this because between David Thiel saying the game sounds amazing and owners saying the call-outs from the movie are terrible, and it's all the movie call-outs. The original call-outs in the game sound great, And I know that's not music to the ears of people waiting for Pulp Fiction because the lines that you want to hear the best and most clear are the movie lines that you love. So I hope there's a solve for this. There has to be, right? There has to be. You can put in a DVD of Pulp Fiction and it'll sound amazing. So I'm not sure why the game doesn't sound great. Look, Texas Pinball Festival is right around the corner. We're going to get a lot more news from the show. I just wanted to do a real quick show just saying this. I'm exhausted by all of this. I'm exhausted by the greed. I'm exhausted by the stupid little trinkets that we're now spending a fortune on. And it comes down to simple things, right? For two little stickers that go inside your game, we're going to charge you $100. For a shooter knob, $225. For a topper that we used to sell you for $500, it's now $2,000. And again, I'm just out. I'm out. I'm tired of these companies. I'm tired of them not reading the room. It's not about the money. It's about the principle. If I walk into McDonald's and they want to sell me a quarter pounder with cheese, as I always say, it's still delicious at $5. It's just as delicious at $50. But I'm not going to spend $50 on it. And I think that's where the conversation begins and ends with me. If you want to sell me something, I want to know what the price is first. And everyone's just lost the narrative in this hobby. The reason why this hobby survived for so many years over the last 10 to 20 years is that value was passed on to the customer. Things were still collectible. That is gone. The collectibility is gone. The value is gone. Cool. If all that's gone and you just want to have pinball fun, then you might as well wait until the prices on all of this plummet. And it's coming, people. It is coming. A couple games will not save an industry. And I think it's going to be brutal for Stern and Jersey Jack. if they don't figure out a way to give us the value at these prices. Everybody, we'll talk soon. A short little episode. Just want to say I love you. Thank you for the support. And it's always fun talking about this stuff every day. And I don't want to complain about this stuff. I don't. I don't want there to be $2,000 toppers. I don't think there should be $2,000 toppers. I think there should be some hip-hop and pinball. And I think these companies should be making themes that make us not even have conversations about price. We're not going to be talking price if the Matrix comes out. Die Hard came out or Top Gun. The reason why we're so focused on price, they're shoveling these mediocre themes at us. They're charging more than they've ever charged before. And then they're selling us plastic crap for 10 times what it should cost. Everybody, Kaneda out. I could see you calling Oh baby

low confidence · Kaneda's prediction about industry trajectory; opinion framed as inevitable outcome

Black Knight (topper)
product
Pulp Fiction (game)product
Elton John (game)product
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
Matrix (game)product
Die Hard (game)product
Top Gun (game)product
$

market_signal: Stern LE base price ($13,000) plus accessories ($2,000 topper + $225 knob) now costs MORE than Jersey Jack Elton John LE, inverting traditional value hierarchy. Boutique manufacturers (Spooky, Barrels of Fun) now also charging $12,000+.

high · Price math: Stern Foo Fighters $13K+$2K+$225 > JJP Elton John LE; boutique machines all $12K-$15K range

  • ?

    operational_signal: Kaneda challenges the necessity of distributor middlemen for low-maintenance accessories like toppers and stickers, arguing that Stern could sell directly via Amazon/mail without middleman markups. Suggests accessories should not require distributor support infrastructure like full games do.

    medium · Extended segment: 'Why should a topper even have to go through a distributor? Why should we have to pay a middleman... Stern can't mail us these toppers? We couldn't just buy this thing on Amazon for $500?'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Kaneda observes that Foo Fighters topper uses identical mechanism to Black Knight topper, claiming Stern recycled the design rather than investing in new R&D, yet charged 4x the original retail price.

    medium · Direct claim: 'It's the same exact mechanism as the freaking mechanisms from the Black Knight topper'; 'They're not even R&Ding an original sort of mechanism or topper. It's the same thing.'

  • $

    market_signal: Kaneda predicts that stockpiled accessories will eventually flood the secondary market as demand cools, causing prices to collapse. He advises community to wait rather than buy at current MSRP.

    medium · 'These distributors are going to be stockpiling games. They're going to be stockpiling accessories... we're going to get a topper for Jaws... for $2,000? [No] prices on all of this plummet. And it's coming, people. It is coming.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Kaneda suggests that Stern's high pricing ceiling has allowed boutique manufacturers to also raise prices (Spooky, Barrels of Fun now $12K+), eliminating price-based differentiation and commodifying the market.

    medium · 'Now all the boutique companies are charging us like $10,000 or more for their games... Spooky Pinball machine fully loaded, it's almost $12,000. Same thing with barrels of fun, $12,000, 12 here, 12 here, 15 here.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Kaneda cites Matrix, Die Hard, and Top Gun as hypothetical future IP releases that would generate community excitement without pricing complaints, implying these are collectively desired but unannounced themes.

    low · Speculative framing: 'We're not going to be talking price if the Matrix comes out. We're not going to be talking price if Die Hard came out or Top Gun.' These are hypothetical examples, not leaked/announced machines.

  • ?

    community_signal: Kaneda reports that Stern apologists in the community have largely fallen silent, suggesting consensus is now forming around the view that pricing is indefensible.

    medium · 'I don't think many people are defending these moves anymore. It's just gotten to the point now where Stern Pinball thinks we're all idiots.'