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NYC PinPod·podcast_episode·1h 13m·analyzed·Nov 11, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

NYC PinPod discusses local tournaments and explores Chinatown Fair's unique non-bar arcade model.

Summary

NYC PinPod covers local New York City pinball competition results from early November, discusses Chinatown Fair as a non-alcoholic arcade venue with pinball, rhythm games, and redemption machines, and previews upcoming tournaments including The Harvest. The panel explores how Chinatown Fair's business model differs from traditional bar-based pinball venues and compares it to the original fighting game-focused arcade that occupied the same space.

Key Claims

  • There are 277 pinball machines in New York City at 84 public locations as of November 8, 2024

    high confidence · Reported by Benjamin Furiga citing Pinball Map data

  • Chinatown Fair opened in 1944 and was purchased by Sam Palmer in 1982, featuring a dancing chicken and tic-tac-toe chicken

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga providing historical context about Chinatown Fair

  • The original Chinatown Fair closed in 2011 and reopened in 2012 under new management as Chinatown Fair Family Fun Center

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga explaining Chinatown Fair history

  • Led Zeppelin at Chinatown Fair costs 13.23 credits (approximately $3.25)

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga noting credit cost at Chinatown Fair

  • Chinatown Fair is one of very few NYC pinball locations that doesn't have alcohol

    high confidence · Eric Sweetland commenting on Chinatown Fair's lack of bar model

  • The original Chinatown Fair specialized in fighting games like Marvel vs. Capcom, King of Fighters, Soul Calibur, and Tekken

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga describing original arcade game selection

  • Dante Oliva won the November 2nd National Deviled Egg Day tournament with 27 players

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga reporting tournament results

  • The Harvest tournament runs November 15-17 with 12 hours of qualifying and finals play

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga announcing The Harvest schedule

Notable Quotes

  • “I was just shy of top four. I actually got sixth. And I had a pretty good run... I was winning, losing, winning, losing, and I guess I won just enough to make A-finals and then immediately get eliminated.”

    Jose Garcia @ ~5:30 — Jose reflects on his tournament performance at National Deviled Egg Day, illustrating the volatility of match play scoring

  • “pinball still uses an exclusively physical release... there is no really minimized or smaller or portable version of the game like there is with the fighting game community currently”

    Madeline Lynn @ ~52:00 — Madeline articulates a key structural difference between pinball and other arcade genres, explaining why pinball accessibility is limited compared to fighting games

  • “I don't want to get pink eye at the arcade”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~58:00 — Eric jokes about VR headset hygiene at Chinatown Fair, providing episode title reference and explaining hesitation about shared VR equipment

  • “Barcade, I love it... Almost everywhere we play is that [bar-cade]. And I don't want to say I was transported back to when I was 12 years old and my mom wanted to shop at the mall and handed me $5”

    Benjamin Furiga @ ~56:00 — Benjamin contrasts the traditional arcade experience at Chinatown Fair with the bar-centric model that dominates NYC pinball venues

  • “I am actually a huge, huge fan of rhythm games. If you've ever seen my right leg near my ankle, I have tattooed the four DDR arrows because I play DDR consistently”

    Jose Garcia @ ~45:30 — Jose reveals personal connection to rhythm games and explains his focus at Chinatown Fair beyond pinball

  • “The density of stuff is insane. Those giant two-person theaters... they've got all the big ones.”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~59:00 — Eric comments on the impressive arcade density at Chinatown Fair despite limited physical space

Entities

Benjamin FurigapersonEric SweetlandpersonMadeline LynnpersonJose GarciapersonDante OlivapersonSean GrantpersonChinatown FairvenueBarcade BrooklynvenueScrapple LandvenueGebhardt's Beer CulturevenueThe Harvestevent

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Multiple local tournaments held in early November with reported winners and placements. Dante Oliva wins National Deviled Egg Day (27 players), Timothy Lawrence wins Story Screen Halloween Flip Frenzy (17 players), Alex Weisenberger wins Silver Ball Sunday (12 players).

    high · Benjamin Furiga reports detailed results: 'Dante Oliva came out on top, Sean Grant second, Gus Gonzalez third, and Miriam Nadler fourth' at National Deviled Egg Day

  • ?

    venue_signal: Significant machine rotation happening in NYC venues. Jack Bar rotated James Bond 007 Pro out, added Jurassic Park Pro and Uncanny X-Men Premium. Multiple venues receiving Uncanny X-Men Premium upgrades. James Bond 007 moved to H&H Reserve.

    high · Benjamin reports: 'Jack Bar got a Jurassic Park Pro that went in place of a James Bond 007 Pro, and an Uncanny X-Men Premium replacing an Uncanny X-Men Pro. Meanwhile, Tempkins picked up an Uncanny X-Men Pro.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple machines reported with mechanical issues across NYC venues: Godzilla 70th Anniversary (Mechagodzilla won't spin), Monster Bash (spits out two balls), Led Zeppelin (shooter lane gate busted, mylar bubbling, bent posts), Venom (elevator dropping ball).

    high · User reports from Pinball Map cited by Benjamin: 'MayorOfNow stopped by Sunshine Laundromat and played the Godzilla 70th Anniversary Edition and said Mechagodzilla won't spin'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Chinatown Fair characterized as rare non-alcoholic pinball venue with diverse arcade portfolio (rhythm games, redemption, VR). Contrasted with bar-centric NYC pinball scene, offers youth accessibility.

    high · Eric Sweetland: 'I think out of every location that has been described in OxyPinPod, and just looking at pinball map, this is one of the very few that doesn't have alcohol, for example. It's not a bar.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.221

0:00
Happy Sunday, Pinfolk. or whatever day you're listening. This is NYC Pin Pod, in which a panel talks location pinball in New York City and nearby surrounding areas. My name is Benjamin Furiga. My initials are BCF, and I'm such a fucking bonehead that we just skipped 20 minutes of content. My name is Eric Sweetland. My initials are HIP, and I'm a pinball tournament director in New York City. Hey, y'all. My name is Madeline Lynn. My pronouns are she, her, hers. My initials are MXL, And that's okay, Benjamin. It was a, as I like to call, a transient show. My name is Jose Garcia. My initials are JGN. And I'm recording from my job's office building. On this week's pod, we'll run down local competition results. In Ball 2, we'll review Chinatown Fair. Maybe more as an arcade than a pinball venue. And in Ball 3, we will discuss Jose's experience at Pinball Expo in Chicago. Let's get started. let's talk about competitive pinball in new york city and nearby surrounding areas in the last week on saturday november 2nd national deviled egg day was convened at a private location with kate martin as the tournament director 10 rounds of ifpa scoring match play were played 27 players came to do just that.
1:57
And after all was said and done, Dante Oliva came out on top, Sean Grant second, Gus Gonzalez third, and Miriam Nadler fourth. Jose, you also were in the finals. Do you want to talk about that at all? Yeah, I was just shy of top four. I actually got sixth.
2:17
And I had a pretty good run. Madeline talked about how she had some really good games every three times, and I think I had the same experience. I was winning, losing, winning, losing, and I guess I won just enough to make A-finals and then immediately get eliminated. Diamond hands, min-max.
2:39
And also a great game on Future Spa. Yeah, something I won't be able to repeat ever again. I had an excellent game where I ended up with something like 979,000 points, just shy enough of breaking through the million. Yeah, just shy of rolling the game. You were playing me, and I had a really good ball one, and I thought I was pretty hot shit, and Jose put me in my place.
Francesco La Roccaperson
Jonah Shlaesperson
Gus Gonzalezperson
Timothy Lawrenceperson
Lauren Burner Lawrenceperson
Transmitter Brewingvenue
Rulo'svenue
Jack Barvenue
Sunshine Laundromatvenue
Single Cut Beersmithvenue
Buttermilk Barvenue
Next Levelvenue
Sam Palmerperson
  • ?

    historical_signal: Chinatown Fair transition from fighting game arcade (1982-2011) to redemption-focused Family Fun Center (2012-present) analyzed as shift driven by console gaming accessibility. Original model thrived on exclusive physical releases; new model relies on pseudo-gambling and token-heavy games.

    high · Madeline Lynn analyzes: 'The original Chinatown Fair under Sam Palmer was 1982 to 2011... it kept having physical arcade cabinet releases... as the progression of computers continued... you have no reason to play a physical release'

  • $

    market_signal: Led Zeppelin at Chinatown Fair costs 13.23 credits (~$3.25), up from reported 13.7 credits at other locations. Panel notes inflation and flexibility of credit-based pricing vs. dollar-based bar pricing.

    high · Benjamin reports: 'it's 13.23 credits which is 13 quarters and 0.23 of a quarter which is 325' and notes this is higher than the 13.7 credits seen elsewhere

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Pinball NYC completing fifth season with Barcade Brooklyn Pinball League finals scheduled. Multiple league formats active: SSPL (South Slope), Sunshine Fall League, Nobro Thursday Night Strikes, with varying player participation and IFPA scoring.

    high · Benjamin details: 'Barcade Brooklyn Pinball League had the sixth and final qualifying session of our fifth season' with top 8 advancing to A-finals

  • ?

    event_signal: The Harvest tournament scheduled November 15-17 at Gebhardt's with 12 hours of qualifying and finals play across two divisions. Pinball NYC leagues culminating in finals week. Multiple venues hosting week 9 matches.

    high · Benjamin announces: 'The Harvest... Gebhardt's Upper West Side both division qualifying 5pm to 12am 7 hours folks of harvesting burgers'

  • ?

    community_signal: Panel discusses accessibility gap: most NYC pinball venues are bars, excluding younger players. Chinatown Fair's non-alcoholic model allows youth participation and recreates traditional arcade experience without beer sales.

    high · Benjamin: 'A lot of bars will not let younger people into their bars, of course, because it's a bar. But, you know, they're not getting the access to pinball machines to be able to play or practice'

  • ?

    content_signal: Eric references 'The Lost Arcade' documentary about Chinatown Fair, suggesting it contains accounts from original arcade community members discussing venue transformation.

    medium · Eric states: 'I have had it reinforced by having watched or at least had on as background noise a documentary called The Lost Arcade about the Chinatown Fair'

  • ?

    product_concern: Jaws Pro at Union Pool updated to version .97, Uncanny X-Men Premium at Rulo's noted as having 'guaranteed real-time code updates', indicating active software maintenance across newer machines.

    medium · Benjamin reports: 'user UpstatePinball said, code updated to .97 today for the Jaws Pro at Union Pool' and 'Premium model with guaranteed real-time code updates' for Uncanny X-Men

    • 3:09
    Truly absolute luck. I don't think it's ever going to happen again, but we'll try to get there. I don't think it was luck. congratulations to everyone who cracked their eggs that weekend saturday afternoon at story screen cinema in hudson new york story screen pinball a halloween flip frenzy was held by tournament director lauren burner lawrence 17 players attended a two and a half hour flip frenzy at the end of which the top four qualifiers participated in a three-game group elimination bracket Papa style.
    3:48
    Timothy Lawrence was the winner of the day, with second place going to Daniel Geminder, who was visiting from Los Angeles. Third place was Lauren Berner Lawrence, and I came in fourth. Nice. oh and uh the costume contest was won by lucas chantrette who was dressed as jack torrance from kubrick's the shining complete with a door frame that he had busted his head through oh my it's a great here's johnny right on right on right on theme for a movie theater pinball place uh-huh did he play wearing the door no he he set it aside while he was oh didn't commit in the portion of this that I failed to record, Jose informed me why the Gebhard's Monthly was not met on Thursday. Gebhard's is right at the end of the New York City Marathon. That is the finishing line, and Gebhard's canceled the contest, probably rightly so, because they're about to receive a lot of people. Very thirsty owners. Actually, on Sunday, Silver Ball Sunday at Single Cut 20 was convened. At single cut beersmith queens 12 players showed up for tommy ortega's tournament alex weisenberger took first place tommy ortega and andrew brisiel tied for second and jeff manheimer came in fourth there were five players in this tournament who are new or returning to the IFPA competition. It's a bye week in Pinball NYC for obvious reasons. Or a pan week. It depends on which shade of blue you like.
    5:39
    Now, is that a pride flag joke that I don't quite get? There's literally a meme of the guy who's like, ah, where it's like finding out the difference between bye and pan. Finding out that bye has a darker shade of blue that you don't like. Finding out that pan has much better colors. Yay! On Wednesday, November 6th, Barcade Brooklyn Pinball League had the sixth and final qualifying session of our fifth season with directors myself, Woody Richman, and Uchendu Nwachiku. The big point-getters this week were Jonah Shlaes and Nintu. Jonah, let me know. Afterwards, it was his first win of an individual event. That's awesome. congrats to Jonah indeed with all six qualifying sessions in the top eight advancing to the A finals next week number one seed and driving the first bus Adam Kane number two seed driving the second bus Matthew Grady and the rest of the top eight Jonah Schlaes Jeff Anderson neat son goodbye Mike Pantino, myself, and Nint Hu. Also next week, we'll have a B Finals, which will be five rounds of match play with IFPA scoring, much like a regular qualifying session. But in addition, this is registered with the IFPA as the BBPL Open. It is open to anyone who wants to come by. Whether you've played or not, we'll be giving away medals, trophies, cash and prizes from Barcade.
    7:25
    Super cool. Like the prize support from the venue. Indeed. Also on Wednesday, Sunshine Fall League 2024 No. 6 was convened at its titular venue in Greenpoint. Eight players arrived for a tournament that was directed by Francesco La Rocca and Alison Bissett. Sean Grant took the day, Francesco LaRocca came in second, Joel Lasner third, and Alison Bissett and Dan Merrill tied for fourth. They will have their finals next week, and they have had 12 players in total throughout the series. Seven of them played in enough meetings to qualify for Whoppers, and six of them will meet for the finals based on what Match Play says. they will be Sean Grant and Francesco LaRocca driving buses Dan Merrill and Allie Bissette presumably playing third on games if they chose to play last and Nick Berry and Tim Reckwarth or Reekwarth tied presently for fifth so they'll be in one group or the other I presume they'll play a tiebreaker of a sort on Wednesday. Nobro Presents Thursday Night Strikes was held November 7th And we had 22 players, a great turnout considering the last week before that was Halloween, which had a much less turnout. And I wanted to say I appreciated this tournament a lot because we had, I think, at least four people who were new to the scene or at least new to IFPA. And I found myself in a great position of bringing them in and explaining what Strikes is and how this community is great.
    9:12
    That's awesome. Love to hear new people. Really cool. Alex Kelly took first. David Patlak second. Alex Weisenberger third. That's the second time I've said that name this week. And Rachel Grimm and Travis Rosenberg tied for fourth. Also on Thursday, SSPL 7's second meeting took place at Buttermilk in Park Slope. 24 players gathered to play five rounds of IFPA scoring match play. And Matthew Carlson came out on top with 31 points. Robert Wong came in second with 29th. And Gus Gonzalez and Dante Oliva tied two panelists, myself and Eric, for third with 25 points apiece. That 25 feels pretty good to set me up to, you know, look, if I got 25 every week, I'd have 100 at the end. 100 is usually driving a bus. I'd be happy for it to be a third seed or fourth seed too also on Thursday Sunshine Laundromat hosted a book signing and pinball tournament for the book Secret New York City a guide to the weird, wonderful, and obscure ten players came to play five rounds of match play under the direction of Ali Bissett the top four went on to play a three game Papa Style final Tommy Ortega won the day with second place going to Dan Merrill third to Dan Bronson and fourth place to Tyler Convery coming up next week we have round nine folks round nine it's the bottom of the ninth or as some people misconflate the sub of the ninth Monday 11-11 as popularized in the movie Us we have intermission Dolores versus the Pin Pals at Skylark special one lit versus Parliament at Owl Farm the Mutants and the Two for Oners at McKenna's Pub the Colliders versus the Balls of Steel at Midway the New York City Flipper Sport Association versus the lesser players at Barcade, the Lion Persons versus Pinball Union at Barcade Brooklyn, and the Deluxe Horses versus the Aristocats. Meow. I'm just kidding. Aristocrats. Over at Rillows. Then on Tuesday, November 12th, we have the Trolls versus Scrapple Squad at Sunshine Laundromat, Ball Drainers versus Kettles Hand Grenades at Kettle of Fish, No Quarters for Laundry versus the Pinister Six at Boat Bar, Reston Pinball versus Neptune's Treasure over at Milo's Yard, Harlem Float Flippers versus the Pin Babes at Birdies, the Replays versus Danger Danger over at Buttermouth Bar, and the Butterballers versus the Schlubs at Jack Bar. Then on Wednesday, November 13, we have the Barcade Brooklyn Pinball League Finals. Barcade Brooklyn and Williamsburg at 8 p.m. The finals open to all. Sunshine Fall 2024 Finals, top six at 7.30 p.m. And the match play calendar shows a 7.30 event at Gebhard's. Thursday, November 14, Nobor presents Thursday Night Strikes at Jack Bar and Williamsburg. 8 p.m. Sharp Start, a three-strike traditional knockout. SSPL South Slope Pinball League 7 number 3, Butterbilt Park Slope pinball at 8.00pm and 5 rounds of match play then we have The Harvest get ready folks for The Harvest let's get some Whoppers get some burgers, get some candy Gebhard's Upper West Side both division qualifying 5pm to 12am 7 hours folks of harvesting burgers, not really on Friday November 15 We have Harvest qualifying both divisions. Gebhard's, once again, 5 p.m. to midnight. Saturday, November 16, Harvest qualifying and Classics finals. Gebhard's, 12 p.m. to 12 a.m. We have 12 hours of pinball. On Sunday, November 17, if I can keep my date straight, unlike all the swiping apps I do, Harvest main finals at Gebhard's. We also have Go for the Wall! private location in Brooklyn, the women's division tournaments. Ball two. As of November 8th, 2024, there are 277 pinball machines in New York City at 84 public locations. Thanks to the creators and users of Pinball Map for this data, here are machine updates from the past week. On Saturday, November 2nd, user MayorOfNow stopped by Sunshine Laundromat and played the Godzilla 70th Anniversary Edition and said Mechagodzilla won't spin. User MidnightSnacks played the Monster Bash at Single Cut Beersmith Squeens and said, spits out two balls during play. Machine isn't new enough to recognize that two are in play and will drain when one goes down.
    13:48
    And PinballLizard said, wacky game of the uncanny X-Men Pro that showed up at Skylark. On Sunday, November 3rd, user UpstatePinball said, code updated to .97 today for the Jaws Pro at Union Pool.
    14:08
    Three machines were added to Transmitter Brewing, a Stranger Things Pro, a Deadpool Pro, and a Star Wars Pro. And then later in the week, user MarevNow played the Venom at Transmitter and said the elevator from the scoop to the right chute keeps dropping the ball. On Tuesday, Pinball Lizard commented on the new Uncanny X-Men Premium at Rulo's and said, Premium model with guaranteed real-time code updates.
    14:38
    Also on Tuesday, user HipSmart played the Led Zeppelin at Chinatown Fair Family Fun Center and said, Expensive, quiet, dirty, floaty, tilty, playable. Shooter Lane gate-busted, Mylar-bubbling, bent posts, rubber-cracking. On Thursday, there was a bit of juggling going on in Williamsburg, as Jack Bar got a Jurassic Park Pro that went in place of a James Bond 007 Pro, and an Uncanny X-Men Premium replacing an Uncanny X-Men Pro. Meanwhile, Tempkins picked up an Uncanny X-Men Pro. the James Bond 007 left fair and H&H Reserve got a James Bond 007 Pro replacing the Star Wars Pro.
    15:32
    Also on Thursday, a Munsters LE showed up at Sunshine Laundromat and user DanTastic said, Al Fresco. That's because it's outside. Let's talk about Chinatown Fair, y'all. A POC originating business on the show and it has pinball. I have had this place on my mind ever since I got to New York City back a couple years ago. Located at 8 Mott Street in the heart of Manhattan, Chinatown. You can get here from a bevy of different train stations. You have the Jay-Z Canal Street Station, you have the 456 Canal Street Station, you have the NQRW Canal Street Station, you've got the 1 and two canal street station you've got the ace canal street station and that's subways not garlic bread nor earl gray tea you've got the grand street station for the b and the d you have got the east broadway station if you want to walk a bit for the f at eight months street and a lot of those trains if you're coming from the south you can get off at city hall too and you're just as close as a canal street station on on the four five six on the r you could get off no not the are, but on the J and Z, you could get off at City Hall and be just as close. Chambers Street, City Hall, Park Place. What's it like walking around there? Oh, it's very safe. I just thought there were a lot of police barricades down by City Hall. There are. You've got to take Worth Street across. You've got to walk up to Worth, where you would get married at City Hall on Worth Street, and walk from there down. It's about two avenue-ish blocks. mine when I walked the other night was underscored by about six fire trucks rolling through because Worth Street was the only through way as you point out Eric everything else down there is barricaded off to get through from the center of the island to the east side of the island where Mott Street is I mean if you're worried about police you can just buy a t-shirt with a black and white flag and get a blue sharpie and you know that then you can probably get in a lot of places yeah well and frankly if you want to identify with the police uh there's probably a place right across the street from chinatown fair where you can buy a lot of nypd branded gear for 9.99 or less i mean one police plaza is not too far away you've caused a ruckus you can visit there anytime you want. Anyway, in terms of the rest of the area, this is Manhattan Chinatown, quite accessible from no matter where you are in the five boroughs. It's pretty darn central, all things considered. If you are looking out the door of Chinatown Fair you can also see Buddha Bodai a great vegan and kosher and vegetarian Chinese restaurant You can go to Columbus Park and you can see a lot of senior citizens playing a hand Pai Gao Poker has dealt by a dude with an apron who looks like a like just a butcher. I will probably. Yeah. Yeah. You got you got to be a little careful or if you're really bold, you can go there. There's Anime Claw around the corner. You have Stanley Claw, which just opened up. Plenty of good places to eat and hang out. Chinatown Fair started out in 1944, folks. 1944, this place opened. And then in 1982, it was purchased by Indian immigrant Sam Palmer, featuring a dancing chicken and then a tic-tac-toe chicken. This arcade originally specialized in a lot of traditional arcade cabinets and fighting games. We had things like Marvel vs. Capcom, King of Fighters, Soul Calibur, and Tekken. Legends such as Justin Wong, New York Chris G, Michael Yips Mendoza, Sanford Kelly all played here frequently and are big names if you're familiar with the Evo or Evolution fighting game tournaments. The original establishment closed in 2011, and it did reopen in 2012 under new management called Chinatown Fair Family Fun Center, but it has much more of a redemption-style arcade. There's many of the more traditional Western arcade games, if you will. half of the collection looks like it's more of a Dave and Buster's a lot of random chance games a lot of games that are you know pseudo gambling if you will there's also a very good collection of rhythm games and there is also of course the one pinball table and the way we can feature this uh establishment on the show a slightly tired uh maybe a little rickety Led Zeppelin because I hope that we didn't all go and only play the Led Zeppelin what else did you play while you were there?
    20:17
    They had the same redemption game that I had found when I was visiting Rehoboth Beach. The one you taught your cousin to play or what have you. Yeah, no, those were coin pushers, which I had hoped to see, but there were none. I think those are illegal in certain parts. That's why they have the marbles. No coin pushers. But they had the redemption game that I found on the boardwalk where it's basically a pinball plunger. It's got a big ball, and you pull it back. You can tell it's spring-loaded, and then you let go of it, and it flings a ball up this track, and you're trying to get it to this power roll. Yeah, I took some pictures, but only of the flashing lights going off when I won, and I forgot to pull back to get enough to show the name of the machine. But so I hit that a few times and got a lot of tickets out of it.
    21:16
    Did you get a mustache comb? No, I didn't redeem anything. Okay. Jose, what did you play? Well, here's the thing. I am actually a huge, huge fan of rhythm games. If you've ever seen my right leg near my ankle, I have tattooed the four DDR arrows because I play DDR consistently. and uh it's what's funny is that the pinball machine is right to the left right left of the ddr machine that's there um and i kept and i kept looking over as i'm playing just watching the players that were next to me playing and just appreciating it so yeah i did end up playing uh the ddr machine as well as soundvoltex which is at the very end of that same i played that too area i played that sound voltics is an excellent game uh i this was a little smaller than the ones that i'm used to uh i assumed that they took off like the extra stuff so that they could actually fit it at the end of that hallway yeah um but when i actually got there to play pinball someone was not playing pinball but had all their stuff on top of the machine while they were playing ddr so i decided all right i'll give them some time i'm gonna go play some sound voltics and it was great I really enjoyed being able to play those rhythm games in the city I basically think there's not any other place like that and if there are, there are very few the only other place that I can think of is round one which is in Hicksville so a really long way away to play some of those games so yes, I did end up playing Led Zeppelin, I ended up playing DDR and I played Sound Voltex as well Excellent Yeah, I played Sound Voltex and I played one of the haptic ball throwing games. One of the games where you throw a ball at the screen where there's a graphic of a plate. The plates one? Yeah.
    23:15
    That was interesting. I think I got 19 tickets. I was about to walk out. I had played three games, four games, four games, I think, of Led Zeppelin. I played one game of Sound Voltex because I said I have to play something else I only really had like an hour or so to be there but I played one game of Sound Voltex and then as I was on my way out and I saw the physical balls and the video screens that I was going to throw them at, I couldn't resist the rage outlet of playing it once just this past Thursday. I'll let you read into why I might have needed that if you would like to. But I just couldn't have resisted.
    24:03
    Madeline, what else did you play? Or did you visit this week? You know the location. I went there a while back. Apochick Community Health is also right around the corner. A great place to go if you're trans, Asian, or queer, or all of the above, for any sort of health care. The most recent time I was there was like 12.30 p.m. on a Tuesday, a couple Tuesdays ago. And when I walk in, there's like two dudes there. And one dude is literally like unconscious asleep in the reclining computer chair. And I just look over the other employee and I'm like, yo, is he good? Yeah, he's fine. And I'm like, okay. And for like the hour I was there, he was completely knocked out. And I was like, well, I mean, I'm glad there's two of you. The rhythm games, there's also a pump it up next to the DDR. For those of you listeners who are unaware, where the canon of rhythm games is as vast and as wild as there are pinball games. If you're interested in learning more, in addition to Chinatown Fair, I also recommend you go to Gacha Arcade over in Flushing in the Tangram Mall. That also has things like Chunhythm, Dance Rush Stardom, Taiko, and Mai Mai, which are also a lot of fun to play. I don't recommend doing the claws at Gacha. Do the claws at Anime Claw. But I like how it's a POC business. I like how it's in Chinatown. That's my area. China Mac is about my dad's age and I've learned a lot about his life and I always wonder what would be like if my father lived like China Mac instead of growing up in rural Iowa so that's always sort of fun to think about can can you can you give sorry I'm fully ignorant can you give me a capsule on China Mac yes so China Mac he is most recently known for starting a protest during COVID called They Can't Burn Us All because some fools poured gasoline on a grandma and lit her on fire. But China Mac was born and raised in Brooklyn in 1982, and he joined the Ghost Shadows gang when he was 12. And if you look him up on YouTube, you can see him wandering through modern Manhattan, Chinatown, and talking about all the violent things that happened or that used to happen in Manhattan, Chinatown. It's kind of funny. He's just walking through what's objectively now kind of a touristy area. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had guns here. Someone was shot over here. Oh, yeah, we robbed a bank here. Then we ran in over here. The roof was open over here. But there's a lot of history to the venue that I've actually gotten into as well. And I'm glad to have learned a little bit about that in addition to playing some pinball there and going to play DDR there with my friends after going to Buddha Bodai or similar. What I do think is relevant to this podcast is to consider the business models of old and new Chinatown Fair. The original Chinatown Fair under Sam Palmer was 1982 to 2011. And that was successful because of not only that third space that I keep bringing up, but also the fact that it kept having physical arcade cabinet releases. Similar to how in original arcades, you couldn't play the new game until the arcade cabinet was made. It was purchased by the venue and set up by the venue. and then because it was only available physically on location you'd have to go there to play the game however as the progression of computers continued through time consoles got better computers got better phones got better you have no reason to play a physical release pinball still uses an exclusively physical release that's right and as we've been talking about the accessibility of the game how do you play pinball you have to play it either on location because has been purchased already by a venue, or you yourself have to shoulder the cost and purchase the entire cabinet. There is no really minimized or smaller or portable version of the game like there is with the fighting game community currently. You can play it on console, you can play it on PC, you can play it with a fight stick, you can play it with a fight pad or a controller. Certainly not with the variety. If you inject virtual pinball here, Yes. With no semblance of various technologies. you don't get every new stern every time one comes out right there's no jersey jack virtual pinball that i'm aware of no like you there are there are things you can't access and the new business model of chinatown fair as such doesn't do fighting games the way it did before that's why they have next level over in brooklyn which exclusively does fighting games the way the original Chinatown Fair did. The new Chinatown Fair or Chinatown Fair 2, Chinatown Family Fun Center, has a lot of those pseudo-gambling Western arcade games that require a high amount of input of tokens or chips or whatever to a relatively low output of prizes or effort because you need a fair amount of overhead to keep all those machines and tickets intact. And I see that potentially going the way of pinball if pinball weren't so maybe intricately linked with the bar scene and the alcohol and nightlife. Sure. I can see pinball most certainly also falling into that sort of pitfall in the future. I was actually going to mention that going into this. I think out of every location that has been described in OxyPinPod, and just looking at pinball map, this is one of the very few that doesn't have alcohol, for example. It's not a bar. I mean, there are some cafes that have a machine, but the vast majority is a bar scene. And I thought that that was refreshing. A lot of bars will not let younger people into their bars, of course, because it's a bar. But, you know, they're not getting the access to pinball machines to be able to play or practice or whatever it might be. So I think, like you said, Madeline, it definitely fits a great spot. I first want to commend a lot of what Madeline has said is reinforced by, I don't want to say that this is Madeline's source, but I have had it reinforced by having watched or at least had on as background noise a documentary called The Lost Arcade about the Chinatown Fair, what it used to be. there are some very compelling, I hate to say characters because it's a documentary, but ultimately, you know, it's, there are some very compelling humans who are the characters of this documentary who have very specific opinions about what this place has become because they knew it as what it was. And it, as Madeline points out, it isn't that. It is something that can be profitable today and i don't know if that could be profitable today in the console realm where next level in a different place is may be able to do it by using consoles to some degree in their model i was i found it refreshing because i had that experience that i had when i was a teenager and I went to the arcade because it was an arcade.
    31:20
    Barcade, I love it. I've said many times we have extolled its virtues here as a venue, as a venue for many things, but it's right in the name. It's a bar-cade.
    31:36
    Almost everywhere we play is that, And I don't want to say I was transported back to, you know, when I was 12 years old and my mom wanted to shop at the mall and handed me $5 and told me to go, you know, go away. But the folks who were around didn't need to be there to have beer or whatever. And most of the places I go play pinball, that's what everyone else there, everyone who's not there to play pinball is there for beer. maybe they're for sports but this place they're there for DDR they're there for a rhythm game that isn't a dancing game I was interested by all of the games I wish I had more time to spend there I was impressed that they managed to fit in all of those giant raw thrills cabinets the density of stuff is insane Those giant two-person theaters. Wow, this tiny space, and they've got all the big ones. Yeah, they have three of them, is that right? One with VR headsets and the two big ones in the back? Oh, yeah, the Godzilla VR looked pretty enticing, but there was a fellow sitting there most of the time I was there, chatting with the attendant. I don't want to put VR headsets on in public locations.
    33:04
    this might be a neurosis i don't know but i don't want to do that you know the next morning you wake up and your eyes all swollen and you're like huh where'd i get that from yeah i don't want to get pink eye at the arcade i i i wouldn't have minded if i were nine years old but today it doesn't work how did everybody enjoy playing led zeppelin did you did you know it before you walked in and did you like it when you played it whether or not you knew it it's okay it's 13.23 credits which is 13 quarters and 0.23 of a quarter which is 325 i think inflation has hit pinball there too does everyone agree with me that it was 13.7 credits when they played oh geez yeah it was uh Yeah, it was 13.7 credits for me. Jesus Christ. So a little over $3 to play, for sure. Look, if you're not buying beer, it probably does have to cost that much, right?
    34:06
    Unfortunately. Yeah. And with all of the swiping arcades, it's much easier to adjust prices. If your business model needs you to do a little more push and pull on the supply-demand thing, points are in a bar yeah no you yeah it's like okay it's a dollar you know that's it you can't really change that because that's that's the increment of the currency but it's kind of like bitcoin you can get any interval you want and therefore you can set up any sort of cash flow you need depending on the how well the game is playing yeah which does contribute to the uh volatility of the price of the game sure that said it's also true that i imagine for players like those of us on the panel today that it did not cost one credit per game. I imagine that each of us got a replay. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there were some outside conditions, or maybe you didn't know the game at all and so just didn't know what to do. Exactly what I was going to bring up. I did pay once and I played four times because the replay values were very low when I got there. I don't know if it were the same for you, but I got to play over and over and over again. So that's definitely a big plus right there. I did get to put my initials up too on some modes. So that doesn't really happen in a lot of places where you already have super inflated scores. So it felt good. It felt good to do that. Yeah. Yeah. I, when I walked out of there, almost every set of initials that were in the game were BCF, HIP, JGN, DAN, and ALI, whom we also know who those people are, uh, on this. We, we said their names earlier in the results for Sunshine. so like those were all of the initials after i left in part because i played two really good games because it's really playable yes it's not only set easy in terms of the replay because it has the dynamic replay system but also it's really playable it's quite light like i i feel like some tables are really heavy to nudge a bit, but I feel like if I really positioned myself and knew the tilt bob, I could do the slime save. The tilt was exceptionally tight. I thought it was pretty tight, yeah. I tilted once and yelled at the machine about how I didn't deserve some of the warnings it gave me in ways that a dude who was waiting to play DDR was maybe a little bit put off by my presence Yeah I think I got a warning once just plunging the ball No
    37:00
    A multi-ball start tilted me. Jesus. Now, to be fair, I had caused two dangers earlier. Yeah, but still.
    37:08
    Yeah. It's overly sensitive, like people after the election. No, I'm so sorry. Oh, that's a fair, yeah. That machine's got a raw nerve. yeah that's true that's fragile no that's terrible i i i do have to say the machine itself the condition of it is is lacking right like i i don't know if y'all had the same issue but um the little gate that stops the ball from coming back into the shooter lane was broken which means that if you shot the ball too far uh it would just go straight back into the shooter lane it also it is actually sitting on top of a horizontal piece of plastic on the playfield next to the next to the exit of it like it's it's just so it they probably installed it backwards and the ball couldn't get out of there and someone took it out and that was that where it sits it it gets bounced into a lot on that wide open play field so it doesn't yeah that little spring gate just after enough abuse it gets mangled up and it falls out of the little slots holding it okay yeah fair enough but yes it definitely you can get back if it wouldn't have worked right installed backwards the first time someone attempted to plunge it would not be It would not leave the plantar. Right, right, right. I mean, theoretically it wouldn't, or it would just bend it the hell out of shape, and that would be that.
    38:38
    Someone was really patient, and they really wanted to play the game. If I slapped it with my palm, because I couldn't get it out of there, would I be able to bend it? That's maybe the question. Because this is a location like that. This is a location, although, Eric, I think you told me in a conversation outside of in a conversation we've had since you and I have both been there that you had a great attendant experience there oh yeah uh at one point uh a ball launched into the air off of a sling or something and it got jammed between a ramp and the wall and I notified the attendant and he you know came right over had the key opened it up knew what he was doing taking the awesome we freed it and put it back together. It was lickety-split. That's great.
    39:31
    I love that in a venue. We talked about that last week in Ball 3 when we were talking about the play-on designation and how it is simply necessary in a location, despite the fact that this is not an ideal location for a tournament because there's only one machine in it, although I guess Flip Frenzy... I think it's banned on the Silver Ball website, or on the old website. It said this is a forbidden location. Oh, interesting. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to have two machines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to have two machines. But having an attendant who can get to it, that's great. That's a nice thing for a pinball venue. that said we we typically talk on ball two about a place as a pinball venue and i i actually so look i paid 25 for whatever the card was going to give me with the 25 because we had discussed it in a text chain that all four of us are in about how it's expensive to play this game and so i i over bought credits uh and i i have some more and i'm going to take them back there and play this led zeppelin so like beautiful you know the the the short version of this is i'm gonna go back to this place but what did what do we all think of it are y'all interested in going back well you know i mentioned i didn't cash in any of the points i earned the redemption games i played right i got 19 tickets yeah i helped i i mean yeah i got thousands of them oh oh what do you get with thousands of tickets. You can get like a Bluetooth speaker with that or something? I don't think I've played any of the Redemptions. Oh, they had a spinning light that projects little spiders around that look kind of cute, or maybe a lava lamp. I didn't really want to carry anything with me when I was visiting. So yeah, I kept the card. I'm going to go back. I'm going to play that some more. Yeah, I wish they added a little bit of Redemption to the pinball, I guess, since it's a redemption joint. That would be great. We do get all the replays and matches. Yeah, but also they just started charging us half a quarter more, it turns out. Well, I mean, if you get to pay $4 a game, but you get three extra replays, hey, it kind of evens out. You get a dollar a game in the end.
    41:58
    That is also a new thing with arcades, having that extra plastic card. So for those of you listening and not watching the Patreon exclusive video version, I showed all three of my arcade cards that are sitting on the shelf of my kitchen counter, my Chinatown Fair card, my Anime Claw card, and my Gacha Arcade card. First of all, venues can charge you like $2 for a piece of plastic, unlike where if you go to Barcade, you just get a token. Yeah, $1.50. That's how they get you. But also, it gets you to come back because you're like, oh, I have this card. Sunk cost. I better save it. I better come back. I better save $1.50. Also, I got to keep this in my wallet all the time. Oh, it's in my wallet? Hey, I'm in the area. I might as well use it. So I've seen that as another sort of practice of maybe sort of, I don't know, cheating you out of a little bit more money to keep the venue afloat. Yeah, it's the absolutely false calculation that is being pot committed. I've already spent money there. I have to keep spending money there.
    42:57
    It's the gambling thing that you've talked about, Madeline. Life advice right here, y'all. 90% of gamblers quit before they win big. Believe in yourself. Think it, dream it, do it. You too can win. Please gamble responsibly. overall chinatown fair is in a poc neighborhood it's got a lot of history it's got rhythm games it's got a little bit of the old school arcade but it's got pinball and if you wish to find those adjacent tents whether it be the uh more contemporary western arcade whether it be the rhythm games and the fighting games of more eastern arcades chinatown fair in the middle geographically of New York City. This is a nexus, a shibaba of sorts of all the different tents that we've talked about previously, and I hope you have a chance to visit. Let's talk about Pinball Expo, where I won a raffle, a big machine. I played in a big tournament, and I had a great, great, great time. Pinball Expo was held at Schaumburg Convention Center in Schaumburg, Illinois, just about 25 to 30 minutes drive from O'Hare, Chicago airport. I went the route of not renting a car and decided to just stay at a nearby Extend-A-Stay America, which was about a 20-minute walk every day. So I was hauling myself up and down, except when the days ran long and I just kind of took a car back. A good walk is good. A good walk is good. When you're going to play a pinball tournament all day, it's nice to have a walk to reset either on your way there or on your way to bed. A walk is very good for frying vegetables. I very much agree. I think, unfortunately, the very first day was cold, was very, very cold. My jacket was not enough. Luckily, it got warmer the rest of the week and I could just continue enjoying that brisk walk and some beautiful Sunsets, actually. Expo ran from October 15th to October 18th, but the events actually started a little bit earlier. We had some factory tours because Chicago is the home of pinball.
    45:12
    They had tours from Chicago Gaming Company, Jersey Jack, and of course Stern. They were very, very interesting. Talking about the Expo itself, there was a big main hall that opened up into that Schaumburg Convention Center. And the very first thing you see and hear is Project Pinball Howard Levine on a portable microphone saying, hey, we have a raffle going on. We have some games going on. Come over here and enjoy your time doing this. Project Pinball is a charity that puts pinball machines in hospitals and Ronald McDonald houses. And the whole point of them being there and all of them volunteering as well was to raise some money to continue doing that great, great work that they're doing. Some of the ways that they were doing it were that big pinball machine raffle, the CERN Lightning or Lightning by CERN, high score contest on pro football and the CERN Lightning. And they also had a raffle for a whole bunch of baskets that people had donated. They hired a person called Elijah the Cup Guy, if I remember correctly, to build this giant, giant cup. I saw that video. And you could buy into this raffle to be the person that knocked it all down.
    46:28
    I spent, oh, and one final thing. They had a non IFPA tournament that I want to talk about as well, but we'll get back to that. I'm sorry. Was it the same raffle as the one you won the pinball machine in?
    46:42
    No. These are all individual raffles, but I did spend a lot of money trying to get into the cup one because i really wanted to do that yeah it just it just the question was whether which one was first place because the rage of being able to knock some cups down might have been some real incentive yeah no they all had their separate raffle pools so you could get into like the draw for the pinball machine but not get any of the baskets or not get the cup structure so to get into each of those you had to donate into different raffles right almost like an auction situation, but Raffle... Which they also had a silent auction. I mean, they really came out with a lot of stuff. I heard from Power that they raised a lot of money, and that is excellent.
    47:32
    Yeah. An auction for pinball? What a bunch of nerds, but also that is charity. Not a whole pinball machine in the auction. It was just individual items, like signed playfields, or like translates here and there. I want to also just extol the virtues of the organization. and specifically recognize Howard Levine. Howard Levine does a lot of work with them. I don't know what their organizational structure is at this point. I seem to remember a gentleman named Daniel who was... Daniel Spolar, that's it. I will never forget, I met him at Papa 20. Dollar a game, high score tournament, as many times as you put money into, and I think it was dialed in, which hadn't been released yet, or was going to be released soon or something like that was the game. And I just remember him saying to me when I put the money in, and I was like, here's the thing, man. If I win, someone else is taking this pinball machine home because I'm not figuring out how to get it from Pittsburgh to New York City, and I don't have anywhere to put it in my apartment.
    48:39
    So if I win, and he just said to me, look, you're not playing for that. Think about how you feel. When you step up to a pinball machine and your hands are on the flippers and you're controlling what's going on there and everything like and you're playing well, you're giving that to a kid who is in a hospital, is having some medical problems, is, you know, going through something hard. And that's inspiring. That's awesome. that absolutely that said i'm so glad you could support that what was it like getting a pinball machine from chicago to new york city that it's an excellent segue because that was um exactly what my where my mind went i used to say that i'd never won a raffle before now i can't say that because I can't.
    49:38
    I won, and the immediate reaction was elation. I was like, I had adrenaline. I was so, so, so happy about it happening. And Howard comes over, and his first words are, all right, so how are you getting this to New York? Whoa! And I feel that pit in my stomach.
    49:55
    Wait, how am I going to get this to New York? My immediate reaction was, okay, I'm just going to rent a van, and I'm going to drive through the night. okay not too far um it's uh it was i think it was 12 hours when i checked so definitely doable right like not a not a terrible option there luckily i howard being the great human being that he is uh mentioned like wait let me check i drove this down from new york let me check if i have space in my van on my way back and i'll just bring it back and you could just pick it up it from our place. That was an incredible relief. It would have been way, way, way harder for me to deal with getting that machine from Chicago to New York. Wait, so Howard brought it from New York to Chicago and then brought it back from Chicago to New York? Correct. But also, how many dinosaurs did we burn to move this thing? Well, here's the thing. The reason that Howard didn't know if he had space, I'm going to inject this here, knowing Howard and knowing the kinds of pinball machines that Howard collects. The reason that Howard didn't know if he would have space to bring it back is that he did not know if at Expo, he might be buying a new bowling themed pinball machine. Oh, geez. He has a bunch of those. He has a lot of bowling themed pinball machines in his collection. Very graciously, Howard drove it back to New York. I also had the help of Ryan Estes to drive it down from where that location was down to my apartment. So actually, it was relatively easy. to get the machine over with the help of everyone, of course. Yeah. And it's invalid. Shout out. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How much have you played it since you've got it? Three or four hours. So certainly not as much as I'd like to, but I'm actually in the middle of a move. It was the first thing that I moved into the apartment was this pinball machine, but I haven't been able to really get back there and really practice it. But I've spent quite a bit of time learning about it, just enjoying the machine. Sure. uh it looks to me like the geometry is incredibly similar to black knight 2000 does that scan for you yeah yeah yeah yeah i think i think that's accurate i mean i think the upper play field is a little you know actually has a center drain instead of the off-center thing but almost every like the rest of it looks to me like like the lower play field looks a lot like black knight 2000 to me yeah no i agree i think it's it's it's very similar it's got two lock ball saucers in the top playfield. I don't know if you can tell from the picture. So it does have a multi-ball where you lock those balls and then you get started by hitting a whole bunch of switches. Where does the plunge go? Does it go onto the upper playfield when you plunge? It does. You gotta plunge real hard for it to carry all the way over to the upper playfield. Just like Black Knight. Maybe the first half. If the plunge is not great, it's going to get stuck and you're gonna have to keep plunging until it gets there yeah uh and starting that multi-ball is ultra hard because you have to hit a whole bunch of switches on the top playfield too so you could get those two balls locked and have them there forever until you actually get lucky and hit those switches to release them right who designed this and what's the story behind all the art i see some crazy dude with a beard i see like a leg with a foot?
    53:25
    I am not sure who designed it. I haven't looked that up yet, but the back glass is someone either getting hit by lightning or getting powers by lightning. And at the bottom is someone just laying there who I assume was also hit by lightning and has powers. So, the internet suggests to me it was designed by Joe Juice Jr. and it is Norse mythology themed. Something that I really like about this machine is that it has the synthesizer voice. The very classic meatball type voice that we can hear is similar to the intro of the NYC Pin Pod.
    54:09
    Sometimes it will talk at you trying to tell you what to do. It's impossible to make out what it's saying. There's no way. what else happened? Like, obviously I, you know, that, that feels, that feels like the, the big picture story. Uh, what else happened at Expo? Yeah. I, and I wanted to bring it back real quick to something that I mentioned earlier, the con, the, the tournament that, uh, Project Pinball hosted, which was not an FDA, but it was really, really interesting. And I think that, um, everyone in this call will, will, will like this. It was a tournament, for... It was a free tournament that anyone could join. They had five machines. It was Venom, Pulp Fiction, Hot Wheels, Elton John, and something that's escaping me right now. These are new games by different manufacturers. Great catch.
    55:10
    But what was really interesting about this contest this tournament is that you were not allowed to play with the flippers What Someone has created an assistive box that has buttons on it and the idea is that it is an accessibility method for people that can't play pinball how we play pinball. I've seen it at Rock Fantasy. They've had it installed. Nice. It was the first time that I've ever seen that, and I immediately fell in love with it. I think it is a beautiful way to get even more people involved with pinball. And I played in the tournament. It was great. It was a best game where you got two chances per machine. So you had 10 entries altogether.
    56:04
    And you had three buttons on your block, left flipper, right flipper, and the action button that had the start. and this box just connects to your machine. I assume there's some involved thing that you have to do with the flippers to actually short the connection and then be able to use it.
    56:24
    It's all a control circuit anyway at this point. Right, so it might just clip in. Yeah, I think you just reroute where the signals come from and have a Bluetooth device or something, whatever the connection technology is. It plugs in via wires. Oh, okay. Well, then we don't even need that. It's just the difference between where the control circuit is routed. That's all. I found that wonderful. I think if I could get my hands on 10 of those and then 10 machines, I would love to host tournaments like this. Part of the idea behind it is also you can't touch the machine at all. You just can only interact with the block. So you also have to learn how to play the game without nudging, which is, I think, a really integral part to playing pinball, but one that we take for granted for people that can't really play that way.
    57:24
    Nudging is hard because the table's heavy. I was really excited for it, and I wanted to bring it up because I think it would be a really cool way to host a tournament. I'm glad to hear about that I was wondering, I mean, if we're donating these to kids, first of all, the thing is like kind of tall, and then second of all like, what if you donated to like you know, St. John's Physical Therapy Hospital for the one-handed like it might be kind of awkward you're putting it in a hospital, I mean, that's part of the thing I think, is that this is an organization that's uniquely positioned to see the challenges with access that the rest of us might not there's one final aspect of expo that i wanted to bring up as well which is the indie machines uh that were at the at the expo turner pinball which i learned about only at the expo they have a machine called ninja eclipse and they only created uh but i want to say like a hundred or something like that so i still consider that indie even though it's not the same indie that i'm going to be talking about for the rest of the expo they have a section at expo that has literal indie machines where people created these things in their garage probably homebrews we might is it fair to call it a homebrew is that is that is what i've heard other people in the pinball community call it i don't mean to force i don't mean to force the the like language on you but is that an okay thing to call what we're talking about i i yep i absolutely agree and i think that's the actual language that they use as well. I just like to call it indie because I like to have the idea that this is just a starting step for all of these creators and that they are just going to create more, hopefully.
    59:11
    Effectively, what we know as Iron Maiden was Keith Elwynn's homebrew Archer machine, I believe, before we all started playing it as Iron Maiden. Does that scan for you, Eric? That's right.
    59:25
    Homebrews can be something cool. So what was the best homebrew? Or what's awesome? What was awesome? It doesn't have to be the best. It doesn't have to be a competition. What was awesome? No, no. Yeah, what was awesome? And I have two examples to talk about. The first one is just a really imaginative way to play pinball. And I'm going to be doing some visual motion. So I'm very sorry for this audio podcast. But imagine a cylinder. Yeah, imagine a cylinder. that, by the way, was also 3D printed, that has a glass or plexiglass top, and you have to hug to find the flippers on the back. And then you look down into it to play the game. Is it physically down inside the cylinder?
    60:15
    Yeah, it's physically in the cylinder. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt, but it's not 3D projected. There's a circular playfield at the bottom? It is a semicircular... I guess because it's tilted, It's going to be an oval shape. It's going to look opposite. I want to say it's probably more like a hexagon than a cylinder, but it's still circular like that. And your hands end up tugging this thing with your flippers at the end, and then you're looking down into it to play pinball. That's awesome. A small field, four flippers,
    60:54
    and some really difficult trick shots to get multiball going. Which, by the way, it has multiball. Just imagine a small box that you're looking into and playing pinball, and that's what it is. What would you say is the diameter of the pinballs inside this machine? Regular pinballs. Oh. So a short playfield, but regular pinballs small playfield regular pinballs got it and uh the creator got very creative with the with the playfield where you have some of your shots for example involved lifting your left flipper so that you would hit the underside of it and it would go um so like you know a lot small small space but a lot of it a lot of things going on and that particular shot was very interesting because that's how you started your multi-ball. Once you locked the ball, you would have to lift your left flipper, hit the underside of it, and then it would fall down and start your multi-ball. It was some of the most imaginative pinball that I think I've ever played. That's awesome. What's the other one? You said there were two? Yes, there were two. The other one was just very expertly done. and I don't care too much about the theme it was a Dukes of Hazzard but they re-themed Paragon for it and it was beautiful decal like like something that you would think would could be coming out of these um pinball manufacturers like like Stern or Jersey Jack the decal was beautiful the field itself was redone with the decals of of Dukes of Hazzard and what was really cool about it is that it played like a regular Paragon, except that it had really good improvements to the code. There were, you know, your saucers were actually multiballs.
    62:56
    So you could actually start a multiball in Paragon, and it had a ball save, and it also carried over progress for your drop targets ball to ball. So lots of, like, quality of life improvements, I want to say, for a Paragon machine that made that game really, really, really fun to play. Did you have a chance to play the Tony Hawk one? I did. I did. It was fun. I think it had a long line, so I only played it once.
    63:28
    And it was a very... It was a cool experience. I don't know that I have any more to say about that machine because I don't remember it very well, if I'm honest.
    63:42
    There's a lot going on. Ken had a lot of things on that table Expo had a lot going on oh yeah for those of you who don't know there is a YouTube video about the Tony Hawk table at Expo and what stood out to me about that was that some dude who not only likes skateboarding not only likes Tony Hawk not only likes the video game Tony Hawk Pro Skater but also knows enough about pinball and knows enough about coding to make a Tony Hawk Pro Skater pinball table. And I bring this up because Tony Hawk is a more recent IP, definitely a millennial, early 2000s kind of thing, and that definitely is beyond some of the more, I guess, older titles that we've talked about previously in themes of the show. The spinner on that table stood out to me the most, in which it was a double spinner. It was the spinner that would spin up, down, up, down, but it was also the spinner such as that you would see in, for example, the Avengers Infinity Quest, where it would spin around like a wheel, and you could actually hit both at once to do like different kickflips. So you could hit the spinner rotating within the plane, and that would be one direction, or you could do a right kickflip, and that would be the other way, or you could hit the spinner vertically one way, or there was a curved shot where you would shoot underneath the spinner and then it would be um brought back around by the curve of the geometry of the table and flip the skateboard the other way then the dude wanted to get it going so you could spin the spinner in like two dimensions or three dimensions at once but he couldn't figure out the code in time but i thought that was super cool i never thought about that before so i don't remember this so i'm gonna take it back i might not have played tony hawk oh no because because i i think i would have remembered something that cool it was really cool i put the video in the chat y'all can search it also lovely list and it was just tony hawk uh pinball expo table very passionate designer anything else from the floor of expo jose a lot of pinball manufacturers had a lot of space there of course like jersey jack stern uh you got the pinball brothers with their abba release and the aliens as well. Alice in Wonderland from Dutch Pinball. They had a couple machines there. Very interesting game. I don't know if they did it on purpose, but it was only two balls a game. I suspect they may have lowered it to two because the lines were long.
    66:18
    And if you do get a chance to play Alice in Wonderland, it is a very, very interesting game. I really like... They have an upper play field that's similar to the power of Twilight Zone, where you're flipping the ball by hitting the flipper and it causes the magnet to push it up. What's really cool about this one is that, I guess the magnet is much more powerful than the power. It's like magic flippers. And yeah, lots of great vendors just selling all pinball related stuff. If you have the ability to do so, it is a great place to be to just spend time and gather more pinball information or just meet some new people.
    66:58
    Jose, what was this pinball marathon thing that you mentioned earlier? Yeah, and I think it's great that we're talking about this and that Eric is the one that's asking because Eric is the voice of there are 200 and something machines in New York City in 80 something locations. and that's exactly what I want to do. I want to do a marathon of running through all public playable pinball locations in New York City. So that's going to be at some point sometime next year. I hope to have a long weekend where I can start on a Friday and end on a Monday afternoon or Monday evening, more likely, where I play all 200 and some. Yeah, you're going to be playing Monday at 4 a.m. Yeah.
    67:53
    Or I guess I should say Tuesday at 4 a.m. But yeah, if you're going to try to call. An average of 28 places a day.
    68:03
    That is, that's how I, that's how I calculated it as well. The sleeping question is an excellent question. Luckily, most places close at 4 a.m. And pinball places don't open until noon for most of it. So I have a good six hours to sleep at least every night, which is hopefully plenty. I think the real issue is going to be transportation between locations. But we'll figure out the logistics.
    68:35
    Okay. Like the traveling salesman, but different. Are you taking the Staten Island Ferry or the Verrazano Narrows? Staten Island Ferry to start out at the cafe in Staten Island that has three pinball machines I don't expect to do this for every location but I'm actually planning on Ubering from there into Coney Island which is an easier transition than taking a subway or taking public transportation I cannot Uber everywhere because that's going to be very expensive will there be Will there be a ferry to the Rockaways, or will you take the A train?
    69:18
    The idea was the A train, yeah. But that's also the longest stretch. At the very least, the A train to leave, if not both ways. I suggest to New York City in general, if you have not taken the train across Broad Channel to go out to the Rockaways, you I shit you not you take the subway across the ocean like there is a place in New York City that you can ride the subway across the ocean so like spirited away type like above the water yeah there's a bridge as you look out the window of the car you can't see any of the infrastructure below you yeah you see bridges on either side and you see the bay and you see land on both sides, but you don't, and it's not really the ocean. It is, you know, some inlet. It's Jamaica Bay. Yeah, oh, it is. It's water. Yeah, you're right. It is Jamaica Bay. You're right. You go across Jamaica Bay.
    70:23
    But it is, it's something to go across this. If you have never been to the Rockaways on the A, go to the Rockaways on the A sometime just to have done it. It's just like taking the 6 to the end downtown and riding it through the old station that still exists if they don't kick you off.
    70:49
    I think the ferry to the Rockaways drops you off nowhere near the pinball in the Rockaways. Oh, that's too bad. Yeah, the train definitely does, though. Yeah, it's a very short walk. There are a lot of stops in the Rockaways on the train, too. That is, speaking of access, those folks have access to the city, even if it takes them a long time to get across the channel and then through the rest of Brooklyn.
    71:18
    And Queens. I do have an Instagram account for this. It's at Pinball Marathon. And it literally has no post right now. But that's where I'll be posting anything related to the updates for this. Ooh, I'm your eighth follower. excellent the other six are like all me probably there's gotta be a there's some local football players here I recognize all these names much like the New York Marathon I would love to just see people at locations give them a high five and just keep going on to the next yeah there will be people standing with signs yeah people like standing outside of Grumpy's Cafe with signs. No.
    72:08
    I do want to know, Jose, can you define play? What's your success criteria? Getting an extra ball, getting a multi-ball on each table, just plunging four times? That is an excellent point. I don't... I wanted to have something real, so I will play every machine for real. Not necessarily for a long game. I should probably set up some rules of like I want to go for a shot here or there or I want to start something and then that's good enough to consider being played but truly I probably will just play it regularly and see where I drain That's the best any of us can do play it honest, see where it drains That's all for this week's pod I'd like to thank Jose Garcia for spending as much time with us as he did. I'd like to apologize to my fellow panelists for my failure to start recording. I appreciate you, and I appreciate you, dear pinfolk of NYC.
    73:14
    I'm not quite sure what we're going to do next week, but I am sure we're going to have an episode. If nothing else, we'll at least have the results from the ninth week of Pinball NYC. Join us then. between now and then whatever you're up to go get them pinfolk