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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 16.5: Catching Up Without TOM?!?!

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 23m·analyzed·Apr 20, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Triple Drain discusses TPF impressions and Travis's new job at The Pinball Company.

Summary

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast episode featuring hosts Joel and Travis (without regular co-host Tom Graff) discussing their Texas Pinball Festival (TPF) experiences. Major topic: Travis has relocated to Missouri and accepted a position as Marketing Officer at The Pinball Company. The hosts provide detailed impressions of games they played at TPF, including Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon remake, Multimorphic's Weird Al and other P3 platform games, and American Pinball's Legends of Valhalla.

Key Claims

  • Travis has relocated from Oklahoma to the St. Louis area in Missouri and accepted a position as Marketing Officer at The Pinball Company

    high confidence · Direct statement from Travis confirming move 'two weeks ago' and job details

  • Tom Graff is absent because he's preparing for a World Championship tournament in Florida next month

    high confidence · Joel explicitly states Tom skipped recording to prepare for 'World Championship thing' next month in Florida

  • Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon remake is 'the best playing remake' the hosts have experienced

    medium confidence · Joel states 'I think it's the best playing remake that I've played out of any of them so far'

  • Multimorphic's Weird Al had significantly more lines/interest at TPF than previous Multimorphic booth years

    high confidence · Joel describes contrast: 'Each time it never felt like whenever I went by there, that there was a long wait' but 'this time around, you could just tell there's just something different about it'

  • 80-90% of people interviewed at TPF enjoyed Weird Al

    medium confidence · Joel states 'felt like at least 80 to 90 percent of people I talked to really enjoyed the game'

  • Weird Al's hidden upper flipper design creates a usability problem for novice players

    high confidence · Travis explains hidden flippers create visibility/timing issues; Joel confirms he never hit upper flipper shot despite 4-5 plays due to lack of visual cue

  • Legends of Valhalla is Travis's favorite American Pinball game to date, surpassing Hot Wheels

    high confidence · Travis: 'it's by far my favorite American pinball game produced' and 'I would actually seriously consider having one of these at my house'

Notable Quotes

  • “the cornerstone of this podcast, the biggest leg of the three-legged stool, Tom Graff, is not here”

    Joel @ opening — Establishes Tom's central role to the podcast and his absence tonight

  • “he decided to play in a pinball tournament instead to win some money... World Championship thing, something like that, next month to play in down in Florida”

    Joel @ early — Confirms Tom's high-level competitive play and World Championship preparation

  • “I got a job with the pinball company as basically their marketing officer... I can't really reveal yet, but there'll be a lot more stuff coming along”

    Travis @ mid-opening — Major life announcement; Travis's new role at The Pinball Company with NDA constraints

  • “if you're a buyer, if you're waiting on that game, I know they're slowly trickling out... if you're excited about that game and Cactus Canyon is a game that you enjoy, you will like the game”

    Joel @ Cactus Canyon segment — Recommendation for buyers considering Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon remake

  • “It is hidden. It is hidden. And that's the problem... if they're hidden, when you do need to use them, you don't know where they are”

    Travis @ Weird Al discussion — Identifies critical UX flaw with Weird Al's hidden upper flipper design

  • “I never hit the upper flipper shot... without visually seeing the flipper, it's just a guess until you get used to the timing”

    Joel @ Weird Al discussion — First-hand experience of upper flipper usability issue despite multiple plays

  • “if they would have had five weird owls there for sale, just like highest bidder, I get the feeling they might have been able to sell them for about $13,000 to $15,000 each”

    Joel @ Weird Al reception — Indicates strong market demand and secondary market pricing expectations for Weird Al

  • “it's by far my favorite American pinball game produced... the shots, the lights, the way that the rules were set up. I really enjoyed it”

Entities

Tom GraffpersonTravispersonJoelpersonThe Pinball CompanycompanyChicago GamingcompanyMultimorphiccompanyAmerican Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: The Pinball Company is experiencing branding/visibility success despite limited industry awareness; similar trajectory to 'A Pinball Podcast' where generic name results in top search ranking

    medium · Joel notes: 'it's so funny because nobody in pinball actually really knows about it... but yet because of the name, it's just like they're just well-known nationwide... if somebody goes and they pull out their phone and they get on Apple Podcasts and they search pinball podcast, what's the first thing that pops up? Your stupid face'

  • ?

    event_signal: TPF after-party featured Godzilla, Halloween, Legends of Valhalla, and Cactus Canyon with no lines late evening

    high · Joel describes walking into room after-party 'way after the party' where 'nobody was there... like four brand new modern games'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Tom Graff competing at high World Championship level; preparing for Florida tournament next month

    high · Joel: 'he decided to play in a pinball tournament instead to win some money... World Championship thing, something like that, next month to play in down in Florida'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Weird Al's hidden upper flipper design creates UX challenge for novice players; flippers are not visible when covered by plastics, making timing/location guesswork

    high · Travis: 'the problem is if they're hidden, when you do need to use them, you don't know where they are' and Joel: 'I never hit the upper flipper shot... without visually seeing the flipper, it's just a guess until you get used to the timing'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Legends of Valhalla's unique/non-standard shot geometry and challenging layout is perceived as strength rather than weakness; 'pinball needs a little weird'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.250

0:00
the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast travis you ready yes oh that was quite delayed uh tom are you oh where's tom tom tom i well part of wants to hit the soundboard, but I'm not going to do that to him. So, hello, listeners. I'm sorry to say that tonight is going to be different. Tonight's going to be different.
0:37
Unfortunately, you know, the core, the key, the cornerstone of this podcast, the biggest leg of the three-legged stool, Tom Graff, is not here. He's not here tonight.
0:54
Travis, how you doing, man? You know, I'm kind of sad, to be honest with you, because I really enjoy just seeing Tom sit there and we just interrupt him the whole time. Yeah, who are we going to cut off? I mean, no, once again, to quote my brother, you know, when Tom says something, it has value. And unfortunately, Tom won't have anything to say tonight. And it's not, I mean, he could have something to say. He just isn't going to be here to say it. And the reason is he decided to play in a pinball tournament instead to win some money.
1:32
And he's preparing for what, World? Yeah, apparently he has this World Championship thing, something like that, next month to play in down in Florida. Yeah, no big deal. Yeah, and so part of you is probably going like, well, why didn't you just reschedule? And believe it or not, there's three of us. There's three of us that do this, and we all have families and schedules.
1:54
Both Travis and Tom, they play tournaments every Tuesday night. I stream every Wednesday night. Tom's modeling gigs, I mean, geez, constant.

Travis @ Legends of Valhalla — Strong endorsement of Legends of Valhalla as superior to Hot Wheels

  • “I would actually seriously consider having one of these at my house. I was, I was that impressed by it”

    Travis @ Legends of Valhalla conclusion — Indicates high regard for Legends of Valhalla as potential purchase

    • Weird Al
    game
    Cactus Canyongame
    Legends of Valhallagame
    Heistgame
    Steven Bowdenperson
    Zachperson
    Nicoleperson
    Ryanperson
    Fliptroniccompany
    Jerryperson
    Texas Pinball Festival (TPF)event
    Flippin' Outcompany
    Twippiesevent

    high · Travis: 'pinball needs a little weird. And that's what helped, in my opinion' and Joel: 'what makes it fun because it is a weird and unique layout'

  • $

    market_signal: Strong secondary market demand for Weird Al; estimated $13-15k prices if additional units were available for sale

    medium · Joel: 'if they would have had five weird owls there for sale, just like highest bidder, I get the feeling they might have been able to sell them for about $13,000 to $15,000 each... There was people just clamoring for it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Tom Graff characterized as having significant community presence/appeal; people actively inquire about his whereabouts even when absent from podcast

    medium · Joel: 'people that came up to us and were like, where's Tom?... People like Tom. People always want to know where Tom is... even when he's not around, he's around... he's got that presence'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Travis relocated from Oklahoma to Missouri and accepted Marketing Officer position at The Pinball Company

    high · Travis confirms: 'I got a job with the pinball company as basically their marketing officer... as of two weeks ago, I believe' and details relocation to St. Louis area

  • ?

    product_strategy: Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon remake distinguished by faithful gameplay feel, superior light show, and large DMD screen implementation compared to other remakes

    high · Joel: 'this one actually felt the closest to the original... I did not get that feeling [of weird flipper hop]... it actually felt like it was a souped up version of the original' and 'it is very well done' and 'best playing remake that I've played out of any of them so far'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Multimorphic exploring solutions for hidden upper flipper visibility issue through plastic cutouts or visual code signals

    medium · Travis discusses potential solutions: 'there are plastics that cover the mechs... if they made a version of the plastics where there was a cutout where the flipper was' or 'add something visual onto the play field'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon positioned as excellent entry-level game for newcomers to hobby due to clear shot layout and family-friendly difficulty

    high · Joel: 'this pinball machine is a great entry-level pinball machine into the hobby... you're not going to be disappointed... very simple just say hit an orbit hit a ramp hit a lock shot'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Multimorphic experiencing significant surge in interest/lines at TPF compared to previous years; Weird Al generating substantial demand

    high · Joel: 'Each time it never felt like whenever I went by there, that there was a long wait... But this time around, you could just tell there's just something different about it... bodies everywhere, constantly around Weird Al' and '80 to 90 percent of people I talked to really enjoyed the game'

    • 2:03
    And what we had realized was we did a pre-TPF show, and we are right on the cusp, probably, to be honest, outside of the comfortable zone of still talking about TPF. But we felt the need to still have a follow-up podcast on TPF. So we're trying to squeeze it in and, yeah, just busy, busy, busy. But another huge reason we haven't recorded yet is entirely Travis's fault.
    2:32
    Well, maybe not entirely. So first off, Travis, I feel like I need to apologize. I feel like I need to apologize because I think that I made fun of your state of Oklahoma so much that you felt the need to move out of it. I got kicked out. That's what it was. I got kicked out of the state of Oklahoma. So, Travis, you are no longer an Oklahoma resident. Is that correct? That is correct. As of two weeks ago, I believe. Two weeks ago. So, yes, all these potential opportunities that we had to record a podcast after TPF. No, Travis decided to throw his entire family into a moving truck and drive them pretty far. pretty far yeah where it's like seven eight hours away so yeah i'm up in the uh st louis area now in missouri so you yeah so you the whole family you're now in missouri um why why are you just looking for a better life you know out of oklahoma yeah working your way up north you know maybe you'll end up uh in indiana one day or uh up near tom or or what's what's your yeah somewhere up so it's funny because people started realizing what was happening and word started getting out that i had taken a job in the pinball industry and i swear i've gotten at least a dozen messages asking me if i'm designing or coding games now and i'm like no that's nowhere near that would require skill yeah yeah that's above my pay grade but no what i'm doing is is i got a job with the pinball company as basically their marketing officer. So I'll be doing content and all kinds of other stuff basically that I can't really reveal yet, but there'll be a lot more stuff coming along. So basically stuff that's within my expertise per se. Which is a pretty small list, but... Yes.
    4:31
    So your resume, I mean, typically when you fill out a resume, you shoot for one page, right? And you just used smaller paper, right, to just get that thing filled out? Well, yeah. I sent in just one sentence. One sentence. Yeah, I just said, my name is Travis. Yeah. And it just worked. Yeah, it worked. They were desperate. So just to clarify, the company's name is – this is the name, The Pinball Company. Right. And I got to give them props. So initially you said that you're like, yeah, I got hired by the pinball company and we're like, really, who? You know, and it's no, the pinball company. Like, it's a silly I don't want to go down that, you know, that sketch or whatever. But it's funny because nobody it's so funny because nobody in pinball actually really knows about it. Like, I would say eight times out of 10, most people just have a blank look on their face. But yet because of the name, it's just like they're just well-known nationwide from anybody that's looking up pinball. So, I mean, it's insane. It kind of followed the same trajectory as I did with the podcast, A Pinball Podcast. So, you know, two peas in a pod, I suppose. At first, I thought you were just incredibly uncreative, you know, when you made your podcast name of A Pinball Podcast. But you realize if somebody goes and they pull out their phone and they get on Apple Podcasts and they search pinball podcast, what's the first thing that pops up? Your stupid face. Yeah, it would shock people the amount of listens that that thing gets. I think I've shown it to you before, Joel. It's just, yeah, it's hilarious. All because of branding, not because of talent. That's for sure. And so that's why if you Google pinball company, bam, pinball company top. I mean, I got to give them props. So, yes, Travis has a new job. I do want to say before we go ahead, I do want to say that it is going to prevent me from doing my YouTube channel, Marv Loco, from the ways that I've been able to do it before. So I do want to take a second and thank Zach from Flippin' Out Pinball because he took a chance on me about a year and a half ago now. It seems like maybe even close to two years ago when I started the YouTube channel during the pandemic. And, you know, we we hit off a friendship from there. He sponsored the channel and he's been a solid friend with dealing with any type of content, just talking about pinball, talking about life, whatever it could be. So I definitely want to extend a thank you to him. And I thank you to him for having me be on TPN with with Tom and yourself as well. So I just want to establish that. And yeah, so now I think we can start the show now. Can we, Joel? uh we already started we're oh we did okay so uh just to reiterate um uh first off you should be thinking nicole many not not zach i mean really nicole runs the show she does well i want to thank nicole for taking my wife occupied at tpf as well so those two are those two are running around everywhere she did that well uh and then second you are like i i know your list of demands when you're applying for this job was rather short but one of them was uh that you you you need to be able to continue to do triple dream podcast so correct uh this is not the end if no this is not the end um well that's exciting so uh as some people know i stream for flipping out i stream zach uh lends me games so i stream for flipping out now you work for the pinball company so we just need tom to step up and you know kind of get sponsored by somebody uh i don't know coin taker or whoever that he wants and uh we could just you know get everybody in here it'll be one big it'll be a melting pot it'll be great he's he's still holding off for stern in that model i don't know how long he's going to hold off for that but he's he's going hard in the paint for that yeah he deserves it so so here we are so yes we are i know we're incredibly late but we wanted to try to get i don't know some thoughts together of of tpf or just what's going on in the last few weeks um and and we felt we could do this without tom because tom unfortunately wasn't at tpf uh And what was really cool, though, was, you know, we actually met a lot of people at TPF and people told us, you know, like, I love the podcast or I love the stream. You know, Travis, I love the YouTube channel and people as Tom, you know, as Tom here, like there was there was Travis and I didn't spend a ton of time together because he was like playing in a tournament and all that crap.
    8:56
    But when we were hanging out, there were people that came up to us and were like, where's Tom? So it's I don't know. It was very that was really cool to. Yeah, people people like Tom. People always want to know where Tom is. I know it's even when he's not around, he's around. Yeah, he's he's got he's got that presence. Yeah. So but let's go through real quick. So TPF, there's been this has been covered plenty. So really, my main takeaways from TPF, if you go to TPF, it's a party. It's a good time. It's really just to surround yourself with people that love pinball.
    9:32
    If you love pinball, I would encourage you to go. It was an awesome show. I really, really had a blast being there and meeting people and talking to people. It was awesome. But there were really just a few games that were new to me or games that I hadn't spent time on, and I just kind of wanted to talk about those. First off, Chicago Gaming. Chicago Gaming, Zach Many actually approached them and was like, hey, we have a TPN booth, and we brought all this streaming here, and we'd like to stream a game all day. Can we, like, have or borrow one of your games? And Ryan at Chicago Gaming was like, sure, take a Cactus Canyon. So I don't know. They had, like, eight, and we literally just dragged one of them over into our booth. And so we had people playing, including myself, playing that all day. And I will tell you, that game was a lot of fun. That game was a lot of fun to play. That game is beautiful. I mean, I don't have a ton of time on the original, but all the bells and whistles, the animations, the light show, the speakers. I mean, if you are into that era of game or you enjoy Cactus Canyon, that is an extremely well-made version of that game. So, I don't know. Now, was that your first time to ever play it? No, I've played it one other time, but it was like an original. But it's just amazing how much more, and maybe I'm just a sucker for light show, but the light show is fantastic. I mean, it's a brand new game. The printing, the play field was beautiful. But I really love the LCD, like the animations. I mean, it still feels like a DMD era game with rules and kind of simplicity behind it. But yet, just the visual package and audio package was fantastic. What was interesting about it compared to all the other remakes that they've had, this one actually felt the closest to the original, in my opinion. And I was fortunate enough to wear at Cactus Shacks in Oklahoma City that there used to be all the originals there. Monster Bash, Attack from Mars, Cactus Canyon, Medieval Madness. And so I've had experience on the originals, a lot of experience, and then a lot of experience on different remakes as well. and for whatever reason just Attack from Mars it just never felt the same Medieval Madness never felt the same Monster Bash was pretty close but there just always seemed to be this weird flipper hop on some of the games and on Cactus Canyon I did not get that feeling at all it actually felt like it was a souped up version of the original which is a good thing to me the light show was excellent the shots were where you expected them to be and it was just it was overall fun In general. And, you know, I'm not really a huge Cactus Canyon fan to begin with, but I was very pleased with how that product ended up finishing out and what it looked like. So and even Monica, she loved it. So I know if Monica enjoyed it, she's got to be halfway decent. Right. There you go. Yeah. She's the one in your relationship that has taste. So she's the one making the financial decisions. That's what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
    12:48
    Yeah, and I know I look at pinball machines a little different than the norm, and that's because the majority of time that I spend playing my games are typically on stream. I mean, I usually will come down here and spend, I don't know, 20, 30 minutes, you know, playing a few games, bouncing around. But when I go to stream a game, like, I am two hours committed to that game. And so it's harder for me to stream some of the older games just because you can see the end of that game multiple times in two hours. And that's why I really like these more complex games. They give you all these variety and different things. So I don't know. If I had to commit, like, did I enjoy Cactus Canyon enough that it would end up in my collection? No. And that's just because of the code. There's not enough there to keep me interested for, like, over a month, you know. I would probably see the end of that game. and then it would be hard to keep coming back to it. But I'm very excited for the 2.0 code to see how much more depth they add. So the reason I wanted to bring it up is just, if you're a buyer, if you're waiting on that game, I know they're slowly trickling out. I'm just telling you, if you're excited about that game and Cactus Canyon is a game that you enjoy, you will like the game. It is very well done. It is very, very well done. No, it's a beautiful game. and just the large DMD screen too. It looks incredible on there. And just the light show that they have looks really solid. I mean, like I said, the shots are where you think they should be. And to me, this pinball machine is a great entry-level pinball machine into the hobby. And what I mean by that is if you're newer to this hobby, you're not going to be disappointed with where the shots are. It's not going to be overly difficult. So I feel like it's one of those pins that you could get the whole family on, you could easily explain immediately okay here's the shots you hit here's what you want to look for it's very i don't know if simplistic is the word i want to use but it's basically it is very simplistic in that form that you're giving or friendly right exactly i mean it's very simple just say hit an orbit hit a ramp hit a lock shot hit bart i mean it's it's all right in front of you so yeah and i mean it has some you can play it over and over and over again but yeah if you've been in the game for a long time and you only have a couple of pins in your collection, yeah, it may not last a long time, but here's the good news as well. If you do happen to get the pin early on, because it's taking so long for all of them to get out, you could probably turn around and sell it and not lose any money at all. I mean, you might even make a little bit of money. So, I mean, but other than that, I think it's a really well done game. I, for me personally, I think it's the best playing remake that I've played out of any of them so far. That's awesome. And I mean, if you're people like Tom who have huge collections, I mean, you really can't go wrong with the Chicago Gaming remake games. I mean, now they're like four for four on just great games to have in a large collection. So I don't know, props to them. And thank you for letting us stream that in the booth.
    15:57
    Second game that I played for the first time was Weird Al. Travis, did you ever have a chance to play one or no? I never even played it one time. I mean, when I did have a few minutes, the lines were just too long because I think they had, what, two? They had two. They had the LE and the standard, yeah. Yeah, so bringing two games to TPF, that's a recipe for not disaster, just a guarantee of having just super long wait time. So I ended up playing. I think I played their heads up machine, though, against my son. and so that's what's that and he beat you i assume uh i was letting him win for a few and then he got mouthy and then i i had to lay the smack down he's gonna learn yeah no um i mean a lot of people have already covered weird out um i'll keep it short i i enjoyed it i absolutely enjoyed it i think it it is very well done um it is a music pin so you know you're in this museum that's the overarching arching whatever it's the it's the big picture that's that's the main thing that you're doing but then you know each song is very individual like it feels very unique which is cool because if you're playing it and you want to focus on certain songs you can each mode though did feel very unique which is very cool so i got it like the code is very i i enjoy that i i don't care about score i have no idea how balanced it is from a tournament standpoint i don't care but the overall experience is good oh no okay so so okay so travis's name and and and zen caster this week is tom's headlamp so i i'm tom's headlamp just rose his hand what do you want there's two of us just talk well i don't want to talk over you why if tom was here you talk over him that is true that's fair no what i was going to ask is how was the upper flipper on there because honestly when i was watching it be played on streams and I've looked at the, uh, the pictures of it. I've just always been confused on how that would look if you're actually playing it. Cause it feels like the timing would be awfully difficult because it feels like the upper flipper is hidden, but I haven't heard from anybody. So it is hidden. It is hidden. And that's the problem. And I, and I do. Okay. So problem in parentheses, um, they, the way the upper flippers are designed, they're designed in a way where now every P3 is going to have both upper flippers. That's the platform, the P3 platform, but not every P3 module will use the upper flipper. So if they're not going to be used, they need to be hidden, right? But the problem is if they're hidden, when you do need to use them, you don't know where they are. And so it's like surprise. Yeah. So it's a, it's a, it's a, I don't know, like you can't win in that situation. I mean, even if I'm looking at turtles right here, the number of people that have stepped up to turtles and the ball goes by that upper flipper every time because they forget it's up there or they're just, I mean, I'm talking novice players, but, and that's right out in your face. You know, it's just, that's my only thing. I feel like, and the fact that the upper flippers are on a separate button, I feel like for a novice. Oh, did they not put it on the same button yet? You can, it's in the code now that you can put it all on the same button. But if this was on location and let's say a kid or a novice player stepped up to it, I don't think they will ever know that there's upper flippers up there. Unless maybe they'll do something with the code to like signal it like, hey, check this out. Hey, check this. But I don't know. A tutorial, something. I don't. Maybe it's already there. I don't know. Is there any way for them to uncover it? Well, apparently there are plastics that cover the mechs. So maybe if they made a version of the plastics where there was a cutout where the flipper was, or in my opinion, those are plastics that you can swap out per game. So in my mind, it would make sense that if the plastics that are specifically made for Weird Al should have the cutout, while plastics made for, let's say, Heist should not have a cutout on the left side because you don't use the left flipper in Heist. So I do think there's got to be something they can do or they need to add something visual onto the play field. But that is in the – there is a challenge there. And I think there is a solution. I don't necessarily know what that is. But it is real. And it is real to a point where I never hit the upper flipper shot. The lines were very long. I stood in them. I played the game, I don't know, probably four or five times. But without visually seeing the flipper, it's just a guess until you get used to the timing. And I have no doubt that once you know the timing, you can probably hit it every time or you can be very accurate with that shot. But I realized visual cues are very helpful in timing a ball. But yeah that is something that a lot of other people have said But I still my overall view stepping away from Weird Al the sound package was awesome Visually it was awesome
    20:56
    Like, they are multi-morphic. Jerry and his team are absolutely heading in the right direction with this release.
    21:05
    Heist, I thoroughly enjoyed Heist. So every P3 game I've played is better than the last. so I absolutely think they are heading like I said the company in general this is a good product and they're heading in the right direction and I am very intrigued by it for sure yeah and I mean for sure the way to really look at this too is just to judge it by the lines in general I mean P3 or Multimorphic which one is it Multimorphic is the business right? Correct so Multimorphic has always had a presence there at TPF for the past few years. And each time it never felt like whenever I went by there, that there was a long wait for anything in general. But this time around, you could just tell there's just something different about it. And it was just easy to tell because there was just bodies everywhere, constantly around Weird Al. So that's the great thing that they were able to get a theme. They were able to get it out and they were able to get a couple of games there to showcase it. And honestly, I after talking to a few people and it's it felt like at least 80 to 90 percent of people I talked to really enjoyed the game. I mean, it's probably like one or two out of 10 didn't necessarily like it. But to me, that's a great percentage for for a company that puts out a game maybe once a year or once every couple of years, however, however long it is. To me, that's a great percentage. And you're definitely moving the needle in the right direction. So I was happy to see that. And hopefully they can definitely just get as many games out as possible. Because I feel like just from talking to people, if they would have had five weird owls there for sale, just like highest bidder, I get the feeling they might have been able to sell them for about $13,000 to $15,000 each. Oh, yeah. There was people just clamoring for it. So, I mean, that right there, when you get people's attention and they enjoy the theme, they enjoy the way it's shooting. They enjoy the sounds. You're doing something right. So if the worst thing about it is you can't see an over flipper right now, then that's a good thing. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I mean, now we're in a holding pattern. We have to wait to see how, you know. To my knowledge, the two that were on the floor, one of those being the LE, the one that everybody played, went home with Fliptronic. Fliptronic had bought one. They were on the video that was used. Jordan and Becca, they were part of the announcement video or whatever. So they have one, and they've been streaming it. It is actually their personal game.
    23:43
    And so there is somebody streaming. I mean, check out Fliptronic. And they are streaming the game, and they're doing a great job doing it.
    23:52
    Was there any other games that you got to play while you were there? Yeah, yeah. So P3 or Multimorphic, they had eight games there. So it was really cool. There was always a line for Weird Al. There was always a line for Heist. And then they had Sorcerer's Apprentice. They had Cosmic Kart Racing. They had the Cannon Lagoon Playfield is the one that the heads up. So they had two heads up connected, which were very fun to play, you know, against each other. And they had Lexi Lightspeed. So, I mean, they had everything. And that was what was cool was some of those games. And to be honest, every single time I walked by the multi-morphic area, if any of those games were open, I'd step up and play. And that's just because I don't have one around here. I don't have one easily accessible. So if I have an opportunity to play it, I'm going to play it. And it is cool. Even though only the back third of the game is what's physically changing, every single one of those games that I listed, they do feel different. They do feel different. It's a different experience when you're playing them.
    24:57
    I enjoyed it. So I'm still like I'm excited for the P3 platform. I don't have any money in it. I'm not buying one or planning on buying one. The game I continue to play with myself is if I happen to have $10,000, am I going to buy a P3 or would I buy a Godzilla Premium? And the reality is I'm still leaning towards Godzilla Premium.
    25:19
    But, yeah, I still absolutely, once again, big old thumbs up from me. and I'm looking forward to seeing what else the you know when people start to get them and more people get to play them because it's it was a lot of fun I had a lot of fun with it now did you get a chance to go over to the American Pinball booth I did American Pinball once again there was another area that had lines I it's surprising the game that I really actually wanted to play at American Pinball that I didn't have a chance because there was continually a line was was Oktoberfest I've never played an Oktoberfest, but every time I'd like, oh, I should walk over there. And oh, nope, there's a few people like, oh, maybe later, maybe later, maybe later kind of thing. And I just unfortunately never got around to playing that. We did. I know you were part of it. What was cool was there was the Twippies and after the Twippies, there was an after party. And at the after party, they had brought in, there was a Godzilla, there was a Halloween, there was a Legends of Valhalla. And I don't remember what the other game was. cactus canyon cactus canyon so and after like way after the party the games were still there and i remember we happened to walk back in that room and like nobody was there you know four brand new modern games like so we put a few games on all of them i don't think we did cactus canyon but um we played some legends of alhalla and um that game is a unique shooting game that is i mean you i want to hear your opinion you were kind of it was your first impressions of it yeah so when i got a chance to play it it's actually i think it was the day before earlier in that day i got a chance to talk to uh steven bowden for a solid 15 minutes just about the rules and he was explaining the whole game to me and it was all starting to make a lot more sense as i was playing it and the thing with legends of bahala it's it's kind of odd it's like um the shots on it feel weird but in a good way it's not frustrating to shoot but it's challenging to shoot and sometimes even the side ramp was pretty challenging at times, but I like the little nuances that they have in the game, such as if you hit the spinner, I think it's something like 50 times that gets the Thor's hammer juiced up to where it'll spot you shots or spot you something. I forget what it is off the top of my head, but I just like that new little nuance in it. But yeah, overall with the game, I was actually pretty impressed with what I saw. It was definitely after playing it and I owned a Hot Wheels for a little while, it's by far my favorite American pinball game produced. And that's even with the theme, me not really being a big fan of the theme for pinball, but just generally just the shots, the lights, the way that the rules were set up. I really enjoyed it. And it just had some weird shots to it. But pinball needs a little weird. And that's what helped, in my opinion. Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, there are definitely a few shots where it's like you think you know where the shot is and then you miss it by a mile and you're like okay nope that's not it but but you can find it i mean every it's not like the shots are stupid tight and like impossible it's just it is a weird layout it's a weird unique layout but it kind of that's kind of what makes it fun because it is a weird and unique layout so i haven't spent a ton of time on it i've played a few games on it and um that is my takeaway like it's not it doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. If anything, it's like, huh, I need to spend more time on this to really find this so that, you know, once I find the shots and I can get a little deeper in the code. Um, but I, I would still, I'd give it, uh, I don't know, B plus if it's a good, I would still give it a positive review, um, for sure. Um, well, I think that the best review that I can give with it is that I would actually seriously consider having one of these at my house. I was, I was that impressed by it and it was just i i don't know what it is i think it's because the way that the rules were explained to me as well i know you got to do some work to earn the wizard modes as well but yet there's still plenty of stuff close to the start button to give you things to do and i like games that have progression via doing different things within the game outside of modes too sure so i got the impression that there's a little bit of that going on and like i said i just like, I like how, where the shots were on things. I mean, you had far shots to your left, like right above the post, you had a shot back to the shooter lane. You had a shot behind a flipper. You had, um, a center ramp that's just way back there in the back. And it is off a different part of the flipper that you would not even, it's not where you think every other center ramp is. It's weird. And if I had one complaint about it, it might be the side ramp just because the way that it looks, it's just that sometimes I would get half ramps but at the same time if you do hit it solid it goes up and it's satisfying to hit and so I mean there's just little quirks in that game that I hope I get a chance to play it a little bit more just in a setting to where I can get 100 games on it and be able to really figure out what's going on because I think that there is something there I mean even even if the theme isn't exactly what I want it to be the gameplay still fun in general. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm kind of curious to see where that goes. And yeah, I have no, like, I will absolutely play it again if I have a chance to see it. Because it, you know, it's nothing against Stern. I thoroughly enjoy Stern games. But, you know, a lot of the games that Zach's been letting me borrow have all been Stern. So I kind of like playing the non-Stern, you know, like I want to feel something that feels different, that feels, you know, that doesn't feel like a stern and that you want to play the field that's what it is joel yeah it doesn't it's nothing against the stern games i can't i love them but it's just i'm looking forward to you know like i want to feel something different i want to feel a unique experience and yeah legends of alhalla does that well well i think you're saying what a lot of people listening think too is it's that stern feels normal just because there's so many different stern games out there and so many examples that you're guaranteed to have what three new cornerstones each year. And so we have all these examples of different sterns and the way that they flip, they all feel the same. And so when you start to play other games like Jersey Jack, the flippers feel different. You play American pinball, the flippers feel different. You play a spooky flippers feel different. You play a multi-morphic game. Flippers feel different. I mean, that's just how it is. Great job. Listening, listening, listing almost every manufacturer there, Travis. So, well, I'm not even done yet. I haven't got the pinball adventures for, for Haggis. Well, hell, Let me tell you about how deep roots. I want to feel Haggis, though. I want to tell you how deep root flippers were at Houston Expo on Raza. 40-plus missed ramps, let me tell you. Or, sorry, whamps. How do you pronounce ramps anymore? Whamps. Shoot the whamps. Yeah.
    32:18
    Haggis. Haggis was not a TPF, but I'm telling you. I mean, they did. There was a reveal just a few weeks back of some of Marty's 2.0 code that they're putting into the Mermaid editions of Fathom. And it looks cool, man. The music looks good. But I have not played a Haggis game, and I really – I'm looking – everybody says they're built like a tank. They're built super well. But, you know, the play field's not wood. It's wood, but then it has, like, what is it, like, polycarbonate top or something. That is a game that I'm very – you know, for a long time, playing a P3 multimorphic game was like, that's the game I want to experience. But now that I've put some good time on that, like, a Haggis-built game is now, my to-do list. That's at the top of the to-do list. I want to play one. I will say, too, we did also play Halloween together. We made sure to play Halloween and we accidentally broke it. It wasn't our fault.
    33:20
    We found the multi-ball bug or something. I don't know what happened there. I took a quick video of it.
    33:26
    It just kept spitting out balls And yet it showed it was the it showed that the ball was over, I think. But it kept spitting out ball. It was weird. And it. Yeah, you broke it. I don't know. Well done. But yeah, it happens. So, yes, I.
    33:46
    I don't know exactly. I love it when things are so awkward for Joel. This is what I live for. Anybody listening. This is what I live for. Go ahead, Joel.
    33:54
    OK, so awkward. Awkward. Awkward's a good word. This is weird for me. This is odd. I want to be honest. I'm taking the Zach Minney approach. I want to be real. That's what he's excited for with this year. And Zach, you do you, man. I think honesty in any sort of media is huge. So yes, sure. My first experience on Halloween, I didn't love it. It didn't blow me away. I played two games and I didn't want to put any more money in the machine. I've said that and there were some people that got upset. I understand. And it's become a whole thing. The number of people that told me at TPF, like, hey, have you run into the Halloween guys yet? Like, are they mad? Or like jokes about like, is Joel going to survive TPF because all the Halloween lovers or supporters are going to come murder him? It's like, it was weird. It was a weird thing. And to be 100% honest, I was actually slightly nervous to run into, like, actually have a one-on-one conversation with a Halloween employee, whether it was Spooky Luke or Bug or Charlie. And it's not like I'm a larger individual. It's not like I'm afraid I'm going to get beat up. Like, I'm not – that's not what I'm saying. It's more of like I know that there are people associated to these games. and I have no problem offending a Halloween owner. That's fine. If you're an owner, truly, like on my stream, I've had people that say, that have told me on stream, I own Halloween and believe it or not, everything you said about it is accurate, but I still really like the game. And to me, awesome. I am so glad you like the game. I want you to like your game. I want you to enjoy your purchases, but I'm not worried about that. I'm not worried about upsetting an owner of the game. But I know Charlie and his family, this is their livelihood. And they have put more time, effort, and energy into this game than everybody else on the planet. And I just feel bad criticizing something that is so personal to them. And that's something that I don't mind. I don't feel bad for being honest about my opinion of my initial impression of Halloween. But I do feel bad insulting somebody's work, like life work kind of thing. So it did bum me out. I bummed myself out that I never once that I didn't like man up and like approach any of them and introduce myself. I have one. I looked at it three ways. They either one, they know who I am and they're pissed or two. They know who I am and are genuinely like appreciative of the feedback or three. They have no idea who I am. And here I am, like meagerly approaching somebody, you know, which is odd. Like, once again, I'm a larger guy. I shouldn't be meagerly approaching somebody. But it was a weird thing. Like, it was a weird spot to be in. And this kind of brings up something. And Travis, now you're like putting yourself in an even weirder spot because this hobby is small enough that you get to know people that this is their job or this is they are directly impacting the creation of these games. and so oh yeah well yeah you can hurt people and you don't want to do that well it's one of those things too i mean i've given plenty of opinions over the past couple years and i've spoken directly with individuals associated with the games whether it be designer coders whatever and i mean it's one of those things where you do realize there is somebody behind something but at the same time you still got to be true with what your opinion is i think it is still important that people do hear do hear true thoughts and i think that there's a way to get that across while not just just totally trashing a game unless it's thunderbirds or something like that which i think we can all fully agree about that but not everybody somebody's offended okay sorry except for the three people out there i apologize but that being said you know it's it's just one of those things that you know i think i respect that the people that make these games, code these games, the teams, the engineers, everybody. I mean, obviously, if that's your job and you're hooked up into that for months at a time, you're going to be attached to it and you want to hear all the great things about it. But see, I'm like, for me and my mindset, I'm just a complete psychopath that I actually like hearing the critiques of anything that I do. Like, for instance, the tour, right? All that. Like, none of that phases me at all because I, you know, I, one, I got four kids that make fun of me every single day. So I'm just used to that in general. And I have Joel who makes fun of me every single day. But that being said, I, I think that that's just a part of life that when you're working on something and that you're putting your heart and soul into, not everybody is going to enjoy it or see it through the lens that you see it through, but it's important in order to get better at your craft. You have to hear those things and you have to really take a step back and think, okay, is what they're saying, does that have some element of truth to it? You know, and you got to be honest about that, about that feedback. Because to me, I know, for instance, if I'm working on something and all the feedback is a hundred percent great, I'm like, I need to find other people. I need to find a different focus group because there's no way. So my goal always, if I'm working on a personal project is just to find the most critical people I can possibly find and put it in front of them. Cause I know they're going to tear it apart. And I know it's going to make that project for me better because I'm hearing the God's honest truth and I'm going to see it from a different perspective. So I think there's both, there's positives, there's, there's pros and cons to this. And I think to people that are in the pinball industry, I would have to think that they all have thick skin in general. I would think 99% of them have thick skin because they're putting themselves out there. There's a lot of money on the line, too. I mean, these games aren't being given away for free. So I think it's important that the manufacturers, the people putting the games together, everybody, I think accountability is very important because you know what else accountability really drives? It drives innovation. it drives the ability to get better at your craft. And to me, that will just produce better and better games in the future.
    40:28
    Yeah, a hundred percent. And, um, so what I'm hearing is, uh, if anybody has any critical comments about this podcast, feel free to email them to triple drain at gmail.com. Cause Travis loves it. Travis can't get enough of that. So that just reminded me to Joel, we still have the roast, the get to for you. I, I have at least 10 of them, but I need more. because I'm going to wait until Tom gets in. So, guys, if you have your roast, talk about Joel and his picture of being announced as, I guess, an admin for TPN, whatever. It is no big deal. But there was a picture of him on there. I swear to God. It looked like a failed science experiment of somebody trying to clone Jack Danger. And then we accidentally got tattoos across the collarbone. And I think it was like Joel was taking one of those pictures where he's acting like he's not taking a picture, but he knows damn well that he's taking a picture.
    41:21
    All right. So what were you talking about, Joel? Yeah, this is one of those situations. Is it even worth defending myself? The answer is no. But yeah, I was asked to be... Obviously, I'm part of TPN. Trev, you're part of TPN. But I was asked to be a part of the admin board And I thought David Dennis I thought it was David who put together the announcement But it turns out no Zach Minney who put together the announcement Feel free to check it out It at Facebook It's on the Pinball Network. But they announced that me and Amanda Hamilton, we were asked to be a part of the TPN, and he put a picture of both of us. But he pulled a picture of me from back in grad school in 2012. I just got a tattoo on the top of my shoulders. I took a picture like of that trying to show the tattoo and I made it black and white so that the tattoo would stand out. Who are you trying to show the tattoo to? So, yeah, you know, I have friends, believe it or not. Like it's your it was my first tattoo. It's kind of like a friend is one to see you shirtless with your tattoo. It's not a seductive or it was. I saw the picture that you were seduced from it. That's on you. That was not my.
    42:31
    That beard does the trick for me, brother. So that was the whole point of the tattoo or the whole point of the picture. And so there was a few takeaways. One, Zach had to scroll back real far to find that. So he just was really diving. I think he was really looking for something good. But two, it's like, you know, it was an announcement video like, oh, I appreciate that I'm being asked to be a part of this. And bam, front page. Like I saw that poster. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Like of all the pictures he's picked, that's the picture he did. And to like, I enjoy giving people a hard time. So to me, it took me about 30 seconds to realize like, all right, just embrace this and have a good time. And then you, this dingbat over here is like, send the roast to me. And it's like, you just jumped on. And I was like, okay, to be honest, if it was a picture of Travis, I would have done the same thing. So here we go. So it's just kind of a buckle up. let's take it i mean maybe that that fits well in your your you know taking criticism which i didn't think but i showed the announcement picture to nicole and she's like my wife and she goes they picked that picture i was like like yeah why i was like i don't know she's like why would they pick that picture i'm like i don't know awesome just make sure if you're sending in your roast do not send it to the email because i want to read these yeah just find me on facebook Just send me a message with your roast, and, yeah, we'll read it live. I look forward to it. That's all I can do, right, is look forward to it. Dude, I got one that says, TPN, now featuring full frontal male nudity.
    44:17
    Whatever. I mean, yeah. All these are so damn funny. I'm happy for you. I can't wait. I got them all loaded up, Joel. I'm ready to go. I'm happy for you. So, yeah, check it out. I don't know. Have a good time at my expense. That's what we're here for. So to wrap all that up, Twippy's – so, yes, Halloween.
    44:34
    Halloween, I played it, put a few more games on it, still haven't got to the upper play field. I counted. I had eight middle ramp rejects before I gave up. I showed you how to get up there, though. I don't know. We finally got up there. I got to the point where I was like cradle, flip, reject, cradle, flip, reject. And then I was like, no, I'm going to go the other way, full speed down the left habit trail thinking like I need the speed. Bam, center ramp, reject. I was like, I'm done. It happened. So, and then the last comment is, like, there was a Godzilla premium in that room. And I know everybody's probably sick of hearing it, but it's, when you step up to that game and you spend 10 seconds on that game, you realize so quickly why that game literally won every Twippy except for the topper. I mean, that game is amazing. It's something special. If you're living on a rock and you haven't heard that Godzilla is good, it is. And if you haven't played one yet, go play it. It's, yeah. So I don't know. I think that's about it for Twippies. I mean, yes, saw some amazing people, a bunch of other TPN people, other podcasters. Loser Kids were there. They were great hanging out with them.
    45:43
    Dennis and Tony from Eclectic Gamers Podcast were there hanging out with them. They were great. Obviously, yeah, all the Greg Bone, Zach Manning, his wife, Nicole. I mean, there were some really good people, all the TPN people had a blast. And then, yes, I had multiple people. I had a guy tap me on the shoulder while I'm waiting for Weird Al and say hi and like, you're Joel, right? Yeah, and knew me from the stream. And it's just incredibly humbling, and it was awesome. And I love the people that did that. I know they did that to you, Travis, as well. And a very small thank you. um one so all three of us tom travis and i were all nominated for twippies which that alone is awesome um but i i know personally uh streaming flipping out streaming got third and that i was not expecting at all there are some amazing amazing streamers out there obviously jack danger does what he does very well um canada one best streamer or the second best streamer for his Facebook streaming, which that guy puts out content consistently. I mean, good on him. But I mean, there's some amazing, amazing streamers out there. There's some amazing streamers on TPN. You got even IU Pinball, Carl D'Angelo, Buffalo Pinball, amazing streamers out there. So to see Flippin' Out pop up there on screen, and it happened to be a video of me playing. So thank you. Anybody listening that happened to vote for Flippin' Out, thank you. I loved your reaction to it too. I was setting, I was setting right behind you and you just turned around and you just, you had like just this look on your face. Like what the hell just happened? Yeah. I, to be a hundred percent honest, flipping out when I think of flipping out streaming, I do flip it out streaming. I'm part of it. I do Thursday, every other Thursday night. But when I think about flipping out streaming, I think of Steve and Bill and Courtney. And then that was all started with Ken. Like I think of that, the Monday night crew, they established flipping out streaming. Um, So I feel like I'm the odd one out and I'm just part of the part of the show. And so to see my video up there, that blew me away. But to be honest, you know, like it's just to see that. And I think Zach many has done an incredibly good job with brand recognition. Maybe people voted flipping out streaming because they know or have heard of flipping out. If that's the case, great. I mean, good on Zach and Nicole for once again, awesome brand recognition. But really, if there is validity to people voting on it because they enjoy the content that I happen to be a part of, thank you. Thank you for the support there.
    48:14
    But, yeah, it was good. That was kind of a big – that was a very humbling moment. So I thoroughly appreciate anybody that supported me or the rest of the Flippin' Out crew in that.
    48:27
    But, yeah, I think that's it for Twippies. Where are we going? Let's look at your – you didn't number things too well this time. You know what I mean? I did. I crushed it. Yeah. I mean, let's move on. So, okay.
    48:41
    Don't you have some thoughts on this little game that's out called Rush? I do. So here's the deal. So you're done pissing off all the Halloween people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's piss off all the Canadians now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The music sucks. No, I'm joking. The music's actually great. The music's actually – so many people just like – you're like, what? Just perked up. Tom may not come back on this podcast. Tom just choked on whatever was in his mouth. Anything. No, it's no, the music I've, you know, when you stream a game, you have to listen to them. You have to listen to that game for like two hours straight. I, no bit of me has ever once had any issues with the music. Like there's a reason this band's good. The music is good.
    49:25
    And this is what's funny. This comes back to like, I've criticized Halloween. and it's like, if I'm going to criticize one game, I need to feel comfortable criticizing other games, right? But this also goes back to the conversation of you get to know people. You get to know people within the hobby. And believe it or not, I know Raymond Davidson. I know one of the lead coders on this game. He's been on my stream. I consider him a friend. So I don't want to sit here and criticize a game that one of my friends is pouring time and energy into. But I want to be honest. And here's the deal. when Zach lets me borrow a game, he typically lets me borrow a game for, I don't know, two, three months. And there are times that I get about halfway through that, like a month and a half. And I'm thinking, all right, if Zach called me up today and said, I need to come get that game. I'd be fine with that. And then there's other times where I'm like, Oh no, Zach's coming in a week. I need to play this game every single night. Cause I'm going to miss it. Um,
    50:20
    unfortunately with rush, I'm okay with it leaving. I am okay with it leaving. And to me, when I stream the game, it at this point has kind of become a grind. And I was trying to pinpoint what it was. And the eye-opening moment to me was last week, I streamed two nights in a row. I streamed Turtles one night and I streamed Deadpool the next night. Those are the games I own. Then this week, I streamed Rush. And when I compare those three different nights of streaming, the night that I actually had the most fun on was Turtles. And the reason being is Dwight has coded so many moments into that game that you can focus on so many different things and experience different things. Not to mention you can do half shell challenge. You can do final battle. You can do co-op modes. Like when I hit the start button, there are so many, there's four different turtles. There's so many different ways for me to play that game. So for, to play it for two hours straight, I played it differently so many different times as I was streaming that game. That's awesome. That makes that game feel unique and fresh, and I really enjoyed that. Then Deadpool. Deadpool, there's only one way to play that game. There's only one. There's no co-op. There's no extra modes. There's no nothing. But there are shots in that game that even at hour two, you hit that katana lock, it still feels good. Like you hit the shenick target, it still feels good. There's just something about the way that game's laid out. And I had the same feelings with Godzilla that it just, the layout feels so good. And it just, it doesn't get old. Now, I will say with Deadpool playing that game straight for two hours, it is somewhat repetitive. The code is repetitive in a way of like, all right, I know what to do. I'm doing the same thing again.
    52:12
    But the shots and the layout is what really I love about that game. So if the only thing that they could do right now for me, for Deadpool to make that game better, it's already I consider it like one of my top two favorite games. The only thing I think they could do better is to add co-op or to add a mode to get for, you know, to see one of the mini wizard modes or something like give me something else to do when I hit the start button. And maybe that'll come with Insider Connected. I don't know. But I thoroughly enjoyed that. Rush, though. I know Rush is loved by tournament players. There is so much strategy to this game. But my issue with this game doesn't have anything to do with the code. Each mode, each song mode feels unique. There are so many different multiballs. If you want to focus on one or the other, that's fine. I'm just finding it's a risk-reward game. I always risk it. I never get the reward because I suck. And the layout is a harder layout. And it's just unfortunately there aren't any shots in the game that like give me that same fun factor as the shots I get in like a Godzilla or a Deadpool. And so what I find is even though I'm enjoying the conversation or I'm enjoying what I'm doing while I'm streaming, when I get to an hour and a half, it's like, oh, I got 30 minutes to go. Like, here we go. You know, and I and I feel bad. Once again, I'm not trying. It's just that's me. That's the way that I look at this game. You shouldn't you shouldn't feel bad because you're tasting what's fun. for you is not gelling you know what i mean you know it just sounds like it's just the play field design is what's giving you fits mostly correct yeah but it's not like like halloween halloween that play field design i just i'm it's not fun like that i'm not enjoying it at all like it's very frustrating because it's of the rejects and because of the layout there's nothing mechanically or physically wrong with the layout on rush it's just there's nothing it's not providing me joy like it's not it's for there there isn't a shot and maybe it's because of the pro there isn't any particular one shot in that game that like you know there's something about like the scoop you know it's like when you sink the scoop it's not like yeah it just like i don't know it just doesn't it doesn't do it for me and maybe that's why i'm comfortable being honest because tom's not here because if tom was here you'd either be yelling at me or crying I don't know. Have you got a chance to play the premium yet? I have in the premium and Ellie, I absolutely think shot better and was more fun. So if anybody has a rush on order, if you're a rush fan, ignore me entirely. Like the the theme itself rush is not it doesn't do it like this was not a band I grew up on. And I absolutely think you get the premium or Ellie, the shots will flow better. You put the expression lighting kit that'll add a ton more to it. Um, but it's just, it's one of those games that, uh, and, and Zach's let me borrow a few that it just, um, it, it, this is a game that I I'm okay. I'm totally okay with it leaving my collection at this point. And now do you think what's the one shot that you don't like that you, that you like the least? Let me put it that way. Not counting the scoop. The left orbit that like, I struggle with that shot. And here's my problem is there are three very important shots that you have to hit with the upper flipper. But to feed the upper flipper, you only have three options. You either hit the left orbit, you hit the right kind of center spinner, or you hit the time machine. And the time machine, depending on what's going on, sometimes feeds that upper flipper. So to me, I can kind of backhand that spinner, but it's not something reliable for me. and from the left side it's just it's not as satisfying as other spinner shots but the left orbit shot is it's a hard shot for me it just it either clips uh one of the drop targets or it clips one of the pop bumpers it just or it goes so fast around that the timing on that upper flipper i know i'm typically pretty good with that upper flipper you know that but i and it's there's three individual shots it's not like it's just one shot you're hitting with the upper flipper that you find the timing for it's three unique shots so maybe it's just this is a game that is truly loved by people with a higher skill level than my own um but if you're a huge rush fan there's so much here in this game for you to just love and so i don't have that pull from the rush fan and maybe i just i'm not good enough to love this layout or the brutality of this layout and i feel really bad because I've owned this game like two months and I swear I've seen like 20% of the code because it just, I can't get far enough in the game to really see what all Timmy and Ray have put in this game. Yeah. Well, it's definitely, I remember us sitting there watching the reveal stream with a dead flip and we were talking back and forth like us and loser kid and everything. And one of the prevailing things about it or thoughts about it was that the shots actually look tough and that the ball's still staying in play. It didn't feel like that the shots were so punishing that you were just an instant drain, but it felt like or it appeared that the shots would be tough for people that are average players, maybe even slightly below average or whatever it could be. So, yeah, I've heard the same feeling from other people that have played it, that they feel like that they have a very hard time finding the shots on Rush compared to other games. Now, me personally, I really do enjoy the game overall. Just the way that it shoots. I feel like I can find the shots halfway decent on the game. I struggle a little bit with the left orbit myself, just going for that drum bonus. But the whole right side, I feel pretty good about that. Now, when we look at the side ramp, I'm kind of like 50-50 on how I'm going to do on that. I actually have a more difficult time with the side ramp than I do with the side loop. the side loop, I can hit that six, seven, eight times in a row once I get the jam. And then even the what's surprising about Rush, if you haven't played it yet, is that even the middle ramp shot, it's not a gimme shot. I mean, on the pro, it feels small. So if you are if you're inaccurate, you are going to be punished for that, because then you're basically bricking a shot that's going to be right in the middle of the play field. And that's where chaos can generally happen somewhat. So I can see something like that bothering some people. But, yeah, it's I mean, it's understandable that there's a lot of people out there that may not have been able to see a large part of the code. And I mean, and that's a big thing about it. You know, when you're dealing with certain layouts, of course, code has to really gel in with what that layout is in order to enable a lot of stuff to be available there at the start. But I feel like. Oh, go ahead. Well, what I was going to say is I feel like I'm the odd one out because the other people that are streaming this game right now, like, you know, Mike and Lisa and Carter with the pinballers, like they're really good players. Like Carter, like blew this game up the first time he played it. You know, I'm talking even like Jeff Teola's pinball profile. He's blown the game up. You have Carlos. It's like with laser blows blowing the game up. I mean, there are people talking about Nick. Insomniac talks about this theme here, Joel. Yeah, I suck at pinball. Apparently. But it's funny. It's not Rush. It's you, Joel. That's what it is. It's not you. It's me. But that to me is like I don't understand that because I'm thinking one of the first things I did was I moved the Outlane post up because I was just getting destroyed. And luckily, Ray did say that all LEs were shipped with the post all the way up, like all the way down. Sorry, all the way down. It's closed for the homeowners trying to be a little more nice. But like early on in the code, everybody complained that they were in multiballs all the time. So instead of having three ball multiballs, now you have two ball multiballs. So it's like they've tried to make the game harder. And I'm thinking like, don't make it harder. I'm struggling over here. Like I'm struggling to see this game. And yet everybody else is playing it. It's just blowing it up. And I'm, I don't know, I got to give Victor Ireland, the pin monk, some credit on stream. He has now coined that I am very on brand. So on brand when I stream is I have moments of glory. You know, I have moments of hitting good shots almost immediately followed with just, you know, immediately followed with draining. I mean, it's just so it's great when you drain and I look at the chat and it says on brand. It's like, yep, that's that's what I do. You know, right when everything's lined up, ready to go. Boom, drain on brand. So, yes, maybe it is me. Maybe it is 100 percent me. But for people listening to this and you're looking at my skill level or wherever your skill level is, you know, I think there's tournament players will love this game, do love this game and should love this game. I'm not a tournament player. I don't have that skill level and I don't also have an attachment to the theme. And so because of that, you know, I still think there's this is a good or fun game. It just, this is a game that's not, it's, yeah, it just doesn't appeal to me like some other games have or do. Well, I think one of the important things about this, too, is we're basically talking about accessibility to somebody. So naturally, anybody out there, you're going to prefer games and not prefer certain games based on mainly a few factors and a few variables. And one of the main variables of that is a skill set. Yeah. I mean, it really is. And this is why a lot of these fan layouts are very popular. Why? Because it's a very low barrier of entry to get far in the game for unskillful players. I mean, if you can get a ball in a flipper on a fan layout, you're going to be able to figure it out eventually. but when you're dealing with dynamic layouts when you're dealing with shots that could be close to the flipper on the left side or right side you might have targets that go back into a post you might have something like the drop targets like on rush and the lower left hand side so there's there a lot of chaos that these designs cause and so naturally if you are the type of player that doesn doesn react well to something like that then yeah it going to be a little bit frustrating for you know for you And that to me that just more or less that that just how it is. As long as the shots aren't rejecting for you, that's another thing like that that's design flaw if the shot's rejecting. So for instance, like one of the things, one of the gripes I had about Ninja Turtles and I had an LE for a little while was just the layer shot going below the left flipper. So just because the way that it was, there was a lot of rejects coming out of there, and that made it really frustrating right there out of an otherwise fun-playing game. So there's certain things on a play field that I think if you're being honest about it, you can find something that might not gel with what your current, I guess, ability to play would be. Because I know that there's plenty of games out there that give me fits whenever I play them, just because it doesn't really suit my skill set. So maybe it's possible that you're running into something similar to that with Rush.
    63:31
    Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. And I just think it really shows, and that's what's cool about this hobby, is different games appeal to different people. And sure, there may be universally loved games like Godzilla that appeal to all people. but I the more I play the more I learn about myself and what what kind of games draw me back and and I think it's great you know like Turtles there's there's Turtles gets a lot of hate and it's typically from like the tournament players and whatnot because they don't like that like the code is the thing that they they don't like about Turtles but to be honest the code is what keeps Turtles in my collection like Dwight has done an amazing job coding in my view like I love the theme. So it's like to feel like there are different characters and moments and variety in the modes and variety in the way you play that and having different, you know, picking different turtles. And it's just like the code is what I love about this game. And yet to other people, the code is the worst part of this game. You know, if they almost want Dwight to do a complete rewrite of the code and I don't, I'm on the opposite side. Like, no, I, and, and I think that's, that's, what's kind of cool though, is, um, um, you know, some people love certain layouts because of how hard the shots are. Other people, you know, like Legend of Valhalla, you love this. You really like the layout because it feels unique. There are probably other people that step up to that, that love that. You know, if they're going to compare it to Cactus Canyon right next to it, they're like, oh yeah, Cactus Canyon shoots amazing. Well, it's a fan layout. And then they'll go to Legend of Valhalla and be like that shot garbage. Like that's awful. well to give you a prime example when i first played rick and morty i fell in love with that game yeah just because the unique shots on it and the fact that it played difficult i didn't feel like i could just easily just burn through this game because there's been a couple of games in which and these are stern games that have come out in which i basically reached the end of the game within my first five or ten times playing it i think turtles was one of those i think i got all the way to final battle, my very first game I played on it. So there's, but what I'm getting at here is that there's just, there's some games that play well to what your skillset is. And then there's other times that, yeah, pinball is fun when you're jamming on shots and you're just, you're seeing your score go up. And then for other people, it's just fun when they experience the moments, regardless of what the score is, just seeing a jackpot, hearing a sound, hearing anything that just kind of cues up in your head, that little endorphin spike that you're just like, okay, yeah, this is, this is a lot of fun. And I think that that's what you're feeling right now when it comes to turtles. Cause we've talked about this before. Cause that's that, I mean, yeah, there is a unique light show with that. And it does make a lot of sense from a moment's perspective. And I think even Mandalorian was like, I remember telling you a few times when I got to different wizard modes on that, I felt like I was about to have a seizure. because the light show was just so in your face. And I mean, but that's pinball. That's the interesting part about pinball is that you can have all these different games, all these different designs from all these different companies, and you're going to get all these different opinions on it. And I think every opinion is just as valid as the next one. So yeah, I mean, this is starting to make sense. I think we're finally figuring out why Rush is not gelling with you. Besides you just hating Rush music. No, it's definitely not. Like, there's legit some songs in that game that I am enjoying. But it is interesting. Like, I know, believe it or not, like Zach Minney, some of the games that he really likes, I found they, like, I like them too. And so you start to, you know, I hope you make friends in the hobby that you can kind of start to trust each other almost. And, like, I know Greg Bone, a lot of the games that Greg really likes, I like. So starting to find other podcasters or other people that it, or maybe it's the opposite. Well, it's like, well, they love that game. There's a good chance that I'm going to hate that game. You know, so it's, I don't know. There's different players out there, but I, you know, thank God for the variety and all the different games that are being made. And, you know, that's, to me, I get it. If maybe this is, maybe this is supporting the idea, like, don't listen to us. Don't listen to our opinions because at the end of the day, it's just my opinion or Travis's or, well, listen to Tom. Tom's opinions, they matter. But it's just that's what we, you know, hopefully at this point, if you're continuing to listen to this podcast, like, you're probably like, yeah, I don't agree with anything Joel says ever. Or you may be like, actually, I do. Like, I play the games in a similar way or view things similarly. So take it for what it is. Don't give us too much credit. That's for sure. But, yeah, that kind of leads us to the last topic. And exciting topic. I hope Zach is listening. I hope he is. Zach's perking up, I can tell you right now. So this is weird. This is very strange to me. And this all started because the birthday boy over here got two lovely presents from his wife. So fill us in, Travis. Well, yeah. So I had, I think it was my 17th anniversary of my 21st birthday. And I didn't think I was going to get any presents because I didn't ask for any. And then my wife just walks in with two boxes and I'm like, okay, what are these? And I opened them up and sure as hell, I have two toppers now. He has two toppers. Two toppers. Two Avengers and two Stranger Things. And I'm not even a topper guy. You aren't even a mod guy. No. No, no. So if you buy an LE, you turn off the shaker. Like, that's absurd to me. But you tournament players and your tilt, Bob. But you're not a mod guy. I know you enjoy adding the sub out options to your games. Yeah, I like a sub for the games, hearing the sound and stuff like that. But besides that, like cosmetic mods, you don't – I assume you like leaving your games stock so they feel more like a tournament type game. It depends. I mean, I have some stuff on there, but yeah, typically I'll have a couple of my pens just set up on death mode where it's just set. Like, even if I have an L.E., I'll set it up like a pro sometimes when I'm fully practicing on it. But yeah, typically I don't have any add-ons to a game outside of maybe like Penn Stadium lights to be able to see the game better. Okay. But that might be about it. But so rarely cosmetic add-ons. Rarely. No, like I am not a topper person at all. So this was quite the surprise. And I was actually very happy to get him, though, just to try him out. I mean, I'm the type of guy, Joel, that when I was at InDisc in 2020, I've said this before, I played Black Knight several times. And it took me to like my fourth game to even realize a topper was even on that game. I just never pay attention up there. Well, you rarely pay attention on the play field either because you played a Stranger Things premium and weren't even aware there was a movie projector in the game. You know what? I did it again at TPF. There was a premium there. I didn't even know it until my third time playing it. I don't know. I don't want to be driving on the same road as you if you're that unaware of things.
    71:08
    So you like them though, right? Like, what are they? I like the look of them. I haven't been able to put them on yet. Oh, Lord. Well, I haven't got around to it, Joel, because I've been busy. I've had to do this podcast. I've had to unpack. I've had to. Well. I just haven't got to it. The reason I'm giving you a hard time, though, is because you come into the Triple Drain podcast or into our Triple Drain, like our, not Discord, our Facebook group. And you're like, all right, guys, I think I'm a topper guy now. And I was just like, how? How is Travis a topper guy? You're like, well, I got two for my birthday, and truly, I love the way they look. I think these are awesome. They look pretty cool. They do. Travis is on the topper train. That says a lot because he doesn't even do mods. And then you brought up a really good point that you said from a resale value point, it makes sense. They're like the best ROI for a mod that you can get for a game. By far. If you throw the topper on top of the game It adds legit value To you reselling that game Yes if you get a topper Especially a topper that is very hard to find Or is about to go out of stock You are going to instantly add value To your game yes 100% So I have been Oh did you get a topper Joel We didn't even talk about this Did you get a topper Is that why you wanted to talk about toppers Did you get the Deadpool topper God, you want to take everything? Did you get it? Yes, I bought the Deadpool topper. Oh, my God. I'm so happy for you. I bought the Deadpool topper. Your Deadpool is now worth probably $28,000 now. It's nowhere near $28,000. So here's the deal. The reason I've been avoiding toppers is I feel like if I buy one, I have to buy one for all my games.
    72:52
    And Turtles, I like the Turtles topper, but I don't want to spend $1,000. I don't want to spend $1,000 on a topper. I just think that's absurd. Luckily, Deadpool, even though it's not that much cheaper, it's cheaper, enough in my mind to consider it cheaper it's dumb it's really dumb but i own the deadpool i own deadpool premium i have it powder coated like this is i have gone all out on this game and so to me i've like if i've gone all out this far maybe i should just buy the topper and i like the way the topper looks i also you bringing in this idea of resale value worst case scenario you know three years down the road when they're no longer making this topper and somebody has to have it they want to pay two thousand dollars for it fine i'll sell it to them for two thousand dollars like there's resale value here or i just leave it on the game and i love it um and then my other deciding factor is it's deadpool doing a thumbs up and thumbs down and my daughter's really gotten into thumbs up thumbs down mommy gets all the thumbs up daddy's jokes thumbs down every time every single time what a smart young lady i feel like she's gonna get a kick out of him doing that so have you put the topper on yet i don't have okay i don't have it yet i bought it from zach what so you're giving me all this shit about me and i have my top is on great they look i didn't say it's i zach is bringing it up when when he swaps out games so i will have it soon i can give you a new game too well zach's swapping out rush right for what uh he gave me a choice he He gave me a choice. He gave me a choice between a Star Wars premium. Okay. And a Guns N' Roses LE.
    74:29
    And I am leaning heavily towards the Guns N' Roses LE. And my reasoning is it kind of goes back to the beginning. We're going full circle here. It's something new. It's something. It's a JJP game. I want to experience a JJP game. I mean, I had Hobbit for over a year, but it's been a while. I want to experience a JJP game. I want to get used to the flippers. I want to experience that light show. Some people feel Guns N' Roses is like the best game ever. I want to give it a shot. And I was worried that I was missing out on something Star Wars. Some people love Star Wars. I like Dwight. I like the moments he makes. I bet the code on Star Wars is really great. But every single time I've played Star Wars, it has destroyed me so fast. And I don't know. It was just one of those like I bet I could have a lot of fun on Star Wars. But Guns N' Roses is something new. It's a new experience, something unique, and so I'm leaning that way. Do you agree? Am I an idiot? Should I go to Star Wars? Yeah, no, I think you'll have fun with Guns N' Roses personally. Okay. I mean, I think a game like that, it's so I prefer Star Wars. I've owned both before, and my preference is Star Wars just because I'm a huge Star Wars fan. I just like the shots a little bit better. But that being said, you can't go wrong with the light show on Guns N' Roses. And obviously, if you're going to get any JJP pen, that would be probably the one to get right now because it looks the best on stream. In my opinion, if you're going to stream something just from a lighting perspective. And I think, too, it's one of those games that I think if you're going to play it anywhere, play it at your home because it's just such a unique experience. I played it at homes. I played it on location. And if you're at home, it's definitely it's a very unique experience when you can actually hear it all and you could just really see it all in front of you. It's just totally it's it's so weird because it's one of those games that's so polarizing that I've never experienced a game in which there's such a difference in the experience itself based on where I'm playing that game at. And that's where Guns N' Roses falls into. So, yeah, I don't think you can go wrong having that at your house and playing it. Cool. No, I'm looking forward to it. I mean, I think like Hobbit, the sound package and the audio package in Hobbit was absurd. It was so good. I love playing that game with headphones on. And you don't get that. I mean, you don't get that type of experience out on location. And so I'm very much excited about it, even though, to be honest, the first handful of times, I mean, I said this when I talked about going to Wizard World on my birthday. I put a game or two up on Guns N' Roses and had zero idea what to do because everything's flashing.
    77:10
    But you know what? Here's an opportunity for me to actually learn it. And I'm really curious to see how my friends and family are going to react to it. And they are either going to be mesmerized by the screen in the light show or they're going to be overwhelmed and have no idea what's going on. What I would do, what I would recommend at least when you start playing it is I wouldn't even worry about the rules at all. I mean, because you'll have patches that you'll want to learn eventually. But I would say just spend your first few days playing it, just playing the different songs and seeing the different lights. Because, yeah, each song has its own little unique light show about it. And, I mean, it's a really awesome experience, to be honest with you. When you do get into a song, I mean, besides just trying to get your forearms to work properly after playing all those multi-balls. but I mean the music itself is, is just very unique. And honestly, it is pretty satisfying too. When you have the risk reward of your jackpot of just trying to drive it up as high as possible. So, I mean, there is that too. So you'll have a lot of meat on the bone. Oh, I'm excited game. So like I said, I'm just excited. I mean, it's a weird thing. We're in a weird kind of low right now. The fact that there is no stern cornerstone right now. So we, we're, we're going to have a little bit of time. I have no idea. I, I'm, I'm not sensing that American pinball is coming out with anything anytime soon. Same thing with Chicago gaming. I mean, we're just kind of at a standstill on a lot of these other manufacturers. I mean, I feel like probably the next game that's going to be announced will be JJP, but I still think we have a little while on that. So I look at this as this is a good opportunity for me to enjoy something new and kind of a new, unique experience. So I'm really looking forward to it. But, yeah, we will see, and I will be happy to report back on whether or not the topper was a good purchase or bad. But I'm excited about it. It should be a good time. I think you'll be happy with it. Good.
    79:09
    I think that's it. If I can read your list, I mean, it was pretty crappy. No, we crushed it. Well, number five. We still got to do that. Number five. Rule the world. Well done. So, yeah, no, this has been weird. we we did not play the intro song you know out of respect for tom this isn't triple drain we're on it's i mean maybe it is triple drain but we're on ball two you know it's just the two of us it felt a little odd but we wanted to get some content out there obviously no tom talks um you know it just doesn't feel right it just doesn't feel right without tom here but um we we knew we wanted to get the tpf review on there we wanted to get something out um but i i i do think we're going to record again shortly. There's been a lot of tournaments that have been played recently. There's been, yeah, there's just been a lot going on in the tournament front that I have no, nothing that I can contribute to. I know Travis and Tom will want to talk about that. And I think we have a special guest lined up that will also want to talk about that. And maybe there'll be some sort of news in the meantime, but you know, now that you work for a pinball distributor, Are you going to be coming at us with juicy nuggets and inside baseball fun facts and whatnot? Oh, yeah, of course. I'm going to reveal everything. Yeah, they're not going to tell you anything.
    80:29
    They're just going to be like, go clean that. Go do that, Travis. Yeah. No, I'm happy for you, man. I love pinball. I love this as a hobby. But the fact that you've now stepped into it being a career is pretty awesome. So I'm proud of you, and I'm excited for what you're going to do there for sure. well thank you joel virtual hug and of course i'm only like what two hours away from you now it's more hours well it depends on how fast you drive but it's monica's driving it's two hours we've talked about this before no it's definitely closer i i still think we're like probably five hours but nothing like oklahoma so um but no it should be good i know i think believe it or not evansville indiana is kind of a middle point so we'll have to meet at a you know zach's above ground pool sometime and have a good time but deal um but yeah i think that's it i would say anybody, I don't know, we threw out a lot of opinions this episode, so if you agree with us, disagree with us, email us at tripledrain at gmail.com. Tell me I'm right or wrong on Rush. Tell me I'm right or wrong again on Halloween. Whatever. And don't forget your roast of Joel. Do not send that to the email. We don't want him to hear it. Just message me or Tom directly on Facebook, preferably, and then we'll read out the best ones. I can't wait. I'm looking forward to laughing at myself. Can't wait.
    81:48
    But yeah, I don't know. Plug away, man. I literally have nothing to plug but this. You don't, yeah. You can find me on the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast on TPN. So thank you guys so much for listening. I've heard good things about that podcast. It's okay.
    82:05
    And yeah, feel free, from a streaming standpoint, feel free to check me out on the Pinball Network. I stream on the Pinball Network every Wednesday night from 10 to midnight Eastern Standard Time. And then every other Thursday I stream on the Flippin' Out channel from 10 to midnight Eastern Standard Time. And then I do just another pinball podcast. I did talk to a potential designer at – not a potential. I did talk to a designer at TPF about doing another deep dive episode on one of his games. And, yeah, hopefully we can try to line that up at some point in time. That was a lot of fun.
    82:35
    The last one I did was with Keith, so it would be awesome to do another one of those. But otherwise, yeah, just hang in. thank you for, I know it's been quite a while since our last recording. Hopefully this was enjoyable. Feel free to email us and tell us how much you miss Tom.
    82:50
    Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming people probably turned off a few minutes in once they realized Tom wasn't going to be here. So it happens. Yeah. Who's I, Tom says the last words. I don't, I was going to do the soundboard. I can do that. We promised him we wouldn't do a soundboard. We're not going to do a sound, but this is him. Like Tom does it. So here we go. This is Tom. You have the last words.
    83:17
    I'm going to bed. Good night.