Episode 1056: "Making a Case for Kong"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·26m 31s·analyzed·Feb 27, 2025

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Kaneda defends King Kong and analyzes secondary market depreciation patterns for recent Stern releases.

Summary

Kaneda discusses King Kong upcoming release, defends it against criticism about theming and originality, and critiques the secondary market dynamics of recent Stern releases like Metallica Remastered and King Kong. He also comments on Harry Potter expected dominance, James Cameron's Avatar perceived lack of compelling gameplay discussion, Evil Dead strong community reception, and speculates on upcoming game releases including Raza at Dutch Pinball and various other titles in the next 6 months.

Key Claims

Godzilla is Stern's best-selling machine and still selling better than any other Stern title
medium confidence · Kaneda responding to listener James, stating he wishes Stern would release sales numbers by SKU
King Kong Limited Edition sold out instantly at $13,000 and secondary market resellers are asking $17,000-$18,000
high confidence · Kaneda discussing current King Kong pricing and FOMO dynamics
Metallica Remastered was produced in only 500 units, and if Stern had made 1000 units the game would have depreciated faster
high confidence · Kaneda analyzing limited edition strategy and secondary market impact
Spike 3 will be an enhancement beyond just computing power, featuring better light shows and improved features
medium confidence · Kaneda claiming he has spoken to people at Stern about Spike 3 capabilities
Jersey Jack Pinball wants to release Harry Potter before King Kong, but Kaneda believes JJP will miss that window
medium confidence · Kaneda speculation based on unspecified industry conversations
Jason Knapp is willing to take bets that The Walking Dead is coming out this fall
medium confidence · Kaneda referencing a bet offer from Knapp Arcade operator
King Kong will cost $3,000 more than Godzilla but may not include $3,000 more in mechanical content
medium confidence · Kaneda questioning value proposition of King Kong pricing vs Godzilla
James Cameron's Avatar Limited Edition will become 'the biggest sinking asset in a long time in pinball' once Harry Potter releases
medium confidence · Kaneda's opinion on secondary market impact of Potter's release on Avatar LE sales

Notable Quotes

“Godzilla is undoubtedly the best-selling Sam Stern machine and is still selling right now better than any other Sam Stern machine.”
Kaneda (paraphrasing listener James's claim) @ ~3:00 — Central claim about Godzilla's market dominance used to contextualize King Kong's pricing strategy
“Buy what you love, play what you love. There's a tiny little window of FOMO left and it happens right away when a game initially is launched, has a lot of excitement and does sell out.”
Kaneda @ ~14:00 — Core philosophy on secondary market dynamics and collector psychology
“The King Kong is going to be amazing and it's because of two things: Keith Elwin and then it's because of his team over at Sam Stern.”
Kaneda @ ~4:30 — Attributing King Kong's potential success to designer and team quality
“Once Potter comes out, you're basically going to be holding on to the biggest sinking asset in a long time in pinball.”
Kaneda @ ~35:00 — Strong prediction about Avatar LE depreciation once Harry Potter releases
“The only reason people bought these games is they just want something different and they might like women with big assets.”
Kaneda @ ~20:00 — Cynical commentary on motivation behind newer game purchases, referencing thematic choices
“I think Dungeons & Dragons fanatics will like it, but it doesn't feel like the game that's just, ah, yeah, can't wait to get my hands on it.”
Kaneda @ ~19:00 — Critique of D&D's community reception and broader appeal compared to Potter and Kong
“Go into the James Camerons Avatar Limited Edition thread and watch how no one talks about magical moments or modes that are awesome. None of that.”
Kaneda @ ~30:00 — Critique of Avatar LE community engagement contrasted with Evil Dead thread excitement
“Spike 3 is going to be an enhancement more than just computing power. We're going to see better light shows. We're going to see some more stuff.”

Entities

Keith Elwinperson King Konggame Godzillagame Harry PottergameStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyJames Cameron's Avatar Limited Editiongame

Signals

$
market_signal: King Kong Limited Edition sold out at $13,000 but secondary market dealers immediately asking $17,000-$18,000; Metallica Remastered at $13,400 has multiple dealers selling at same price with available inventory, indicating rapid FOMO window and subsequent depreciation pattern
high · Kaneda's detailed pricing analysis showing LE sold out then secondary market markup, followed by current availability of Metallica Remastered at launch prices
?
product_strategy: Kaneda argues that limiting Metallica Remastered to 500 units was strategic to maintain secondary market value, and questions whether higher production would have accelerated depreciation
medium · Kaneda's analysis: 'Imagine if Sam Stern had made 1000 Metallica Remastered...500, a game that's incredible, it's sliding down'
?
collector_signal: Kaneda identifies that FOMO premium exists only in immediate post-launch window and is followed by rapid depreciation once dealer/distributor inventory becomes available
high · Kaneda's analysis of how dealers hold back units and release them later, breaking FOMO spell and driving prices down
~
sentiment_shift: Sharp contrast in community sentiment between James Cameron's Avatar LE (minimal gameplay discussion, focus on aesthetics) and Evil Dead (active discussion of modes, multiballs, art, theme integration, excitement)
high · Kaneda detailed forum analysis showing Avatar LE threads lack gameplay discussion while Evil Dead threads demonstrate strong engagement with mechanics and modes
?
product_concern: Kaneda critiques game design at JJP, suggesting inadequate toy integration and overly complex/sterile code implementation across recent titles (Avatar LE implicit, general critique via Grant conversation)

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.080

0:00

KILLIAN'S BIRTHDAY Good morning everybody, welcome to the world's most talked about pinball podcast, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Happy to be here. Killian's 4th birthday today. We've had so much fun. Thank you so much Hector for the paw patrol inflatable chase. He's been playing with this big pup truck toys. It's amazing for $100. You can blow a kid's mind and we spend $2000 on flat toppers that upset us. Think about that for What's going on in the pinball world everybody? We're gonna go around the horn. We're gonna talk about these companies But before I do that I want to issue a bet Because my good friend Jason Knapp said he is willing to take bets that the walking dead is Coming out this fall now. Look I said it's confirmed that it's not coming out, you know Kaneda I use the word confirmed very loosely TinRel識ąż érêtanchores The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonicbrance, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteelectronic oru Of Gentlemen læ The Last Name James G. I gotta protect all of you, right? Cuz you know how the Kaneda haters are, man. I mean, first of all, thank you so much, everybody that's been sharing all of this stuff that's been said about me. I don't watch it or pay attention to it. I think it's awesome. People always fall victim to the greatest Kaneda strategy in the history of marketing. Make them talk about you. Make them, you know, make you the enemy. Make them say, The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonic, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteregonate FEDERIC PINBALL, TEN TIMES WORSE OF MYSELF, AND I DON'T REALLY CARE. ALL I CARE ABOUT IS MY FAMILY, HEALTH, HAPPINESS AND HAVING A GOOD TIME IN PINBALL.SO KEEP IT COMING.IT JUST KEEPS MORE PEOPLE COMING THROUGH THE DOOR.IT'S AWESOME.THEY FALL VICTIM TO THE BAIT EVERY SINGLE TIME. King Kong is going to be amazing and it's because of two things Keith Elwin and then it's because of his team over at Stern but James writes Kaneda King Kong is going to be a major hit for the same reasons that Godzilla was and still is by the way you are not paying attention to the emails I'm sending you Godzilla is undoubtedly the best-selling stern machine and is still selling right now better than any other stern machine well James I wish you could prove that. I wish that we got total numbers released at the end of each year for what Sternpinball moved against each skew. Wouldn't it be great if we just knew they sold this many Metallicas, ACDCs, Star Wars, Godzillas, nobody knows. We know they sold no John Wicks. They're not selling many Venoms. When it comes to a game like D&D, you know, oh, it's selling really well. It's selling like Patrick

5:33

So just think about that for a minute. King Kong is going to be $3,000 more than freaking Godzilla was. Do you think it's going to have $3,000 more in it when it comes to mechs, bomb and toys and everything? I don't know. So he goes on to write, no theme song for King Kong. Maybe, but it's well known famous fact that King Kong is the very first movie in history to have an original soundtrack. I'm going to play a little bit of the first movie, King Kong, and I'm going to play a little bit of the first movie. So, the first movie is King Kong, the original soundtrack. Did any of you know that? I don't think anybody knows that. And my second point, James, is nobody cares. Oh man, guys, what was the first movie to have an original soundtrack? King Kong doesn always die I said that he dies in every movie right He goes up the building he gets shot he falls and he dies Now last time I checked those were the King Kong movies I grew up with I know in the newer ones he doesn die James goes on to say he dies in the original and the Peter Jackson remake He also died in the 1970s one when he climbs the Twin Towers which was what James said here He dies in the 70s remake as well but he comes back The King Kong lives Yeah, I remember that remember that they gave him like a heart transplant That was like the weirdest King Kong movie ever I hope this Stern game is based only on that one like you have to give Kong a new Mechanical heart and bring him back to life just so he can die all over again He then writes other than that he lives in all other Appearances well, I'm happy Kong The end of the movie, don't they show like the atomic material reforming to create the next Godzilla? Godzilla 1988 Godzilla, Godzilla versus mega glorious. I don't know the return of Godzilla. There are several others in which Godzilla dies and they bring him back to life. Alright, I get it, I get it, I get it. Endpoint number four, Godzilla isn't popular because it's campy. He is popular in spite of Godzilla being campy because the fans, like myself, watched it as kids and didn't see it as campy. Most Godzilla fans like the latter more serious versions better than the earlier campy Godzilla. Alright, so James, thank you for Thank you for writing this in. And as I go through all this, I think the main point you're making is that King Kong can be great as a pin because King Kong doesn't always die and King Kong doesn't need to be campy to be a fun pin. And look, I see it, right? Like Jurassic Park isn't really a campy movie. Like it would scare the bejesus out of little kids if they watch Jurassic Park, but it's got a lot of comic relief. And that's the thing about King Kong. When you think about it, I feel like Please like and subscribe.

9:29

Houston The game is going to be well implemented and executed incredibly well. I think they are going to have some modes in King Kong where the game becomes a throwback to some of those original King Kong movies. I think the game is going to have a black and white throwback mode in which we see the The original Kong at the top of the Empire State Building, you know, swatting at the airplanes. I think that's going to be in this game. Alla the way you can play Jaws Revenge and it's a whole different game. I think they might do something like that. I think they are very creative, this team. When I look at Jaws and everything they've done and I look at what's in Godzilla, it is almost impossible not to get super excited about what's going to be in King Kong. This game is coming out within four months. That is so exciting. The prices are not going to be exciting. This is also going to be the reveal of what Stern Pinball is going to bring out with Spike3. I've spoken to people at Stern Spike3 is going to be an enhancement more than just computing power. We're going to see better light shows. We're going to see some more stuff. And I think if we think about Spike3 like Intel inside, it's going to be the best Stern offering and platform to date. Will the game 191%row in the fundingMartarfce싸©AnIVE1209 billsfilmaventurehuman��209 previewedSńE alternat liksom 찍TV sank probable gente komb Gor Office, metrokihocardjeani展 cowork Apost Moto SeokuNeviŚŚŘŘŚŘŘŠŌŬ� Lk� зап щоб túlária The game is available for $13,500. The LEs sold out instantly at $13,000 and people who bought them right away who had FOMO that missed out right away. And this game just came out. They paid $17,000 to $18,000. Now you can go get a Metallica Remastered LE for $13,400 and it's still available. And right next to that $13,400 Metallica everybody are like four or five other versions of the game or other people selling the game for like $13,400. The game is over. Now think about it. Imagine if Stern had made 1000 Metallica Remastered LE which is what people were crying about. I don't know, right? In just a few months with only 500, a game that's incredible, it's sliding down. And look, you still made a little bit of money, but it's going to keep going down. And that's just the state of pinball. Buy what you love, play what you love, Winroad怎麼辦 folding Payments giveaway, Advertisementsarthentheavy Year bringing a list to the top Bian, Tim Webster John Dodson and K Bul ocasvi homem glucosevi Also rapped i turnaround Little window There a tiny little window of FOMO left and it happens right away when a game initially is launched has a lot of excitement and does sell out Now you got to remember everybody remember this I don think people realize there are so many dealers and distros that will buy these games from the manufacturers And do you really think they allocating every single one of those hot titles to customers On day one, some of them are going to hold titles back. They're going to hold units back. And then all of a sudden, voila, they become available again. A thousand at $15,000. Not rare, way overpriced. A thousand sterns with a topper now at $14,000 to $15,000. A stern with a topper that is mass produced. Just wait. All things becoming so easy to get as I look at these D&D LE owners, I'm like guys, I get it, but look at the D&D sort of vibe around the game, right? It's already sort of wearing a little thin, even though most of us have never played it. You know what I'm saying? Like the enthusiasm, like I get what you did over there. It's really unique. I think D&D fanatics will like it, but it doesn't feel like the game that's just, ah, yeah, can't wait to get my hands on it. I can't wait to save my progress and see which dungeon I'm in and then wake up next Sunday and have no damn clue which way I'm going. That doesn't sound like pinball to me. I think everybody's waiting for Potter and Kong. And in between we're gonna get Cuphead, we're gonna get the new game from Barrels of Fun, we're gonna get a new Tales of the Arabian Nights, we're gonna get Medieval Madness remake, all this just coming out on top of each other over the next six months. We're also going to get Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. It's funny to me. You know, everyone's like, oh man, Kenaid is talking about Raza. He's talking about how many they're going to maybe make. He's talking about this screen and people are running to Dutch pinball. Kenaid is talking. Kenaid, you guys are out of your minds. Who the heck can't put one and one together to equal two? Melvin has acquired all of the games. He has all of it. Why do you think it's a surprise that he would bring Raza to market next? If you want to make a bet, Jason Knapp, The Same way a lot of people are like I don't understand like the codes off that deep the people who are buying these games Don't care about deep code because if you did you wouldn't buy these games The only reason people bought these games They just want something different and they might like women with big Tatas, I mean that's really it you don't even get like the sexy Alice The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonicbrance, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteelectronic The way they are making all 500 this year, I think they might make like 400 this year or 450 and by that time then everybody at the end of the line is going to be in the driver's seat because you'll be able to get a refund and maybe go buy it for less than it is new or you might just want to go through with your purchase and that's great. Now speaking of Dutch Pinball X, what's with this photo from Christopher Franchi? Do you see this thing you just put up that he's going to be at TPF with Raza슷atripeen, ou, of Si Bait who was modern, Immunoscale, ie velar, b Typ numerator Montec понял box the president of the armys IV intensely right now anyone who has a big Elbowski classy game and they all feel'll get aáintérieur so you*** can game and there is somewhat and is related to think into total working at official PINBALL whooshinga ramp shot type in pinball]:.com, TKPRAacun.com, PINBALLekkür.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, PINBALLצם.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, TKPRAJUN.com, PINBALLonsieur, PINBALLbelievable, PINBALL neigh, PINBALL lapt, PINBALLJeremy, PINBALL �, PINBALL disappe, PINBALLizophren, PINBALL):, PINBALLBLANK, PINBALL seiz, PINBALL LIAM, PINBALLSPEAK, PINBALL]., PINBALLdisplaystyle, PINBALL helicop In recent years of expense? 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You know you doing weighted scoring that makes no sense How can you get like the most votes Oh I not going down that road How can you get the most number one votes and still lose It doesn make any sense But the world doesn make much sense anymore It doesn make much sense right But look I just want consumers to be as well informed on what the product plans are if they asked to spend this much money And so that where we at in the world of pinball right Everyone waiting for Potter and Kong Avatar owners you know you getting your games I happy you getting your games Tantrums your games are beautiful I love reading the thread because it like they don have any modes to talk about They not talking about magical moments They just talking about how the game like shoots kind of well and it beautiful and that kind of it It kind of it Go into the avatar thread and watch how no one talks about magical moments or modes that are awesome None of that You know where I seeing all of that in the evil dead thread Did you see We like Ben Neck and him talking about.. what's going into this game? What's already in this game? And what I love about Evil Dead again going to the thread. The Vibe. The Excitement. The discussion around what actually in the game. The discussion around the mode that are super creative. The discussion around the multiball that are awesome and feels rewarding. The discussion around the Art. The discussion around what's to come. The theme integration, you're just not seeing that in avatar. And look, I know JerseyJack is going to sell more avatar CEs and LEs, but man, I really feel for you guys because once Potter comes out, you're basically going to be holding on to the biggest sinking asset in a long time in pinball. I mean it. And I look, I'm not telling you, and this is what makes me so it pains me because I know if you're loving your avatar game right now, let's just say you bought your CE for 15,000 and you're loving it. What if I told you you could love it just as much in six months and get that game for $10,000? Why would you choose option A? That's just where we're at in pinball, everybody. All right, so we've got avatar CEs. Once they get made, we're going to get Harry Potter sometime April, May. I know that Jersey Jack wants to get Potter out before Kong. I just don't think they're going to. I feel like they're going to wait The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonic, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, translite�a ramp shot type in pinball eyebrartwork panel in backbox that is backlit during play warriartwork panel in backbox that is backlit during playissippi All in all, when we look at what's about to drop, we've got a few weeks to get there. Kenaid is going to keep you entertained. Don't worry. I've got my hernia surgery in two days. That's not going to stop me. People making fun of me is not going to stop me. I love it. I actually love it all. And for those of you out there, I really want to thank a couple of people. I want to thank Ed Robertson for sending me one of the nicest notes I've received in a long time. Ed, I can't tell you how much talking to you. And we I don't do it all the time, but I just love how thoughtful Ed is and how caring he is and what a great heart he has. And he also says something really nice about Electric Bat and how Kale's podcast gives a really interesting perspective on pinball. And I 100% agree with that. He's talking about this hobby through the lens of an operator. And that's interesting. I talk about this hobby in a different way The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonic, Black Water, Twippies Awards, translite All right, so I want to thank you Ed for that kind note. I also want to thank Grant who works at Jersey Jack and he did the music and the sound for Avatar and he's like Chris you got to remember you know a lot of us put in a lot of hard work and he's like I understand exactly how you feel when you feel like you put in so much effort and you know it doesn't always get appreciated and The Week in Pinball, Johnny Pneumonic, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteelectronic The Never get an award they never get accolades or appreciation now that being said grant Yeah guys got to put toys in these things like a come on man like you guys work over there I get you're doing the sound and and you know Keith wants to make this like diner menu rule set Everyone's got to get into a room before you put in all that effort and be like it's really easy gang All of these are the main things that we are trying to make a masterpiece pinball machine if we just do the following things. I'm not going to say what they are right now. Let's not overbake the code. Let's not have like the same sort of sterile multiballs happening all throughout the game. Let's theme integrate. Let's sync up the voices with the clips. It's all there. It's all there. You just got to put it together in the right way. All right, everybody, Brenda is behind me. You know what I loved about everything this week is everyone was saying that Brenda is the real king of the household. Brenda is the smart one. Brenda's got three babies she's got to deal with. She knows all of this. She's telling me to get up. She's got a call in five minutes, and she needs to put her other baby in another room. His name is Kaneda. And everybody, thank you so much. We're going to keep rocking and rolling. I love it. Have a great day. Watch version on Atari distractive, visit any of months J Emma