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#93 Long Time - The Classic Pinball Podcast

The Classic Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 27m·analyzed·Oct 11, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Classic Pinball Podcast #93: history deep-dive, James Bond fatigue, Fathom issues, global listener mail.

Summary

George and Dave discuss pinball history (Harry Williams and Sam Stern's ownership of Williams Manufacturing), express fatigue with James Bond game coverage, share listener emails from around the world, discuss the new James Bond Collector's Edition pricing and speculation, review technical issues with the new Fathom remanufactured game, and cover various community topics including Australian pinball culture and venue updates.

Key Claims

  • Harry Williams founded his first company Automatic Amusements in 1933, then Williams Manufacturing in 1944. Sam Stern bought 49% of Williams in 1946 and worked there until 1959 when he arranged a buyout and sold the company to Consolidated Sunray. Williams later became independent in 1961 and was acquired by Seaburg in 1964.

    high confidence · George, citing his research on pinball history

  • Sam Stern later recruited Harry Williams out of retirement in the mid-to-late 1970s to design games for Stern Electronics, which Sam founded after leaving Williams Manufacturing in 1959.

    high confidence · George, explaining the Stern/Williams relationship

  • The James Bond Limited Edition will cost $14,000 to consumers at list price.

    high confidence · Dave, providing retail pricing information

  • Only 500 James Bond Collector's Edition machines are being made.

    high confidence · George, citing production numbers

  • The new Fathom remanufactured game has drop target design issues; at Rochester Pinball Collective, the machine sat in the back room for seven weeks after being on display for two weeks due to malfunction.

    high confidence · George, citing Bruce Nightingale's comments on Slam Tilt podcast

  • The new Fathom's drop targets are wearing out after only two weeks of play, with paint coming off.

    medium confidence · George, reporting Bruce Nightingale's observation about the third or fourth Fathom built

  • The new Fathom has a reset arm (hook mechanism) on inline targets that was getting caught and required rework to function properly.

    medium confidence · George, discussing technical details from Slam Tilt podcast

  • Dave is considering replacing his Rush game with a new El Toro machine.

    high confidence · Dave, discussing his personal game collection changes

  • The Maine Silver Ball Tavern in southern Maine has machines ranging from EMs to Rush and allows customers to bring their own food.

Notable Quotes

  • “Harry Williams founded his first company in 1933... Two years later [1946], Sam Stern buys 49% of Williams Manufacturing... Sam sells it to a company called Consolidated Sunray.”

    George @ early in episode — Key historical fact about Williams Manufacturing ownership structure rarely known to pinball community

  • “How sick are you hearing about James Bond? Very. Very, very sick. You have not heard, I think, every single podcaster other than us.”

    George and Dave @ mid-episode — Expresses shared fatigue with extensive James Bond coverage on other pinball media

  • “I'm going to say the first ad that comes out, first person who gets one, he's going to flip it. He's going to pay $30,000.”

    George @ mid-episode James Bond pricing discussion — Prediction about secondary market pricing for James Bond Collector's Edition

  • “The reason I'm mad is we had it set up at the collective for two weeks it's been in the back room for seven weeks not working.”

    Bruce Nightingale (quoted by George) @ late-episode discussing Fathom — Reveals significant reliability issues with new Fathom remanufactured machine

  • “The drop targets themselves were wearing out only after two weeks... the paintworks coming off.”

    George (reporting Bruce Nightingale) @ late-episode Fathom discussion — Quality control concern about drop target durability in new Fathom

  • “I think he's got a valid argument... Marty Robbins I don't want to crap on anybody if anybody it's Bruce.”

    George @ Fathom discussion conclusion — George defending his criticism and acknowledging Bruce Nightingale's legitimate concerns

  • “I think it's going to be 18 to 20 grand [distributor cost for James Bond Collector's Edition]. Because do the numbers. You're making 500 of these things, right? So, at $20,000... that's $10 million, is it not?”

    Dave @ James Bond pricing section — Calculation-based reasoning for distributor pricing on limited edition

Entities

GeorgepersonDavepersonHarry WilliamspersonSam SternpersonWilliams ManufacturingcompanyStern ElectronicscompanyConsolidated SunraycompanySeaburgcompany

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts express exhaustion with extensive James Bond game coverage across the pinball podcast ecosystem and media landscape

    high · George: 'How sick are you hearing about James Bond? Very. Very, very sick. You have not heard, I think, every single podcaster other than us.'

  • ?

    product_concern: New Fathom remanufactured machines exhibit early mechanical failures including drop target wear and reset arm catching issues

    high · George reporting Bruce Nightingale: 'we had it set up at the collective for two weeks it's been in the back room for seven weeks not working' and drop targets 'wearing out only after two weeks... the paintworks coming off'

  • $

    market_signal: Strong speculation about secondary market pricing for James Bond Collector's Edition, with predictions of $30K+ on resale despite $14K retail

    medium · George: 'I'm saying the first ad that comes out, first person who gets one, he's going to flip it. He's going to pay $30,000.' Dave: 'on eBay it's going to go for Like 30, 32.'

  • ?

    collector_signal: 500-unit production run of James Bond Collector's Edition creates scarcity-driven pricing dynamics and speculation about flipping behavior

    high · Discussion of distributor cost ($18-20K), retail ($14-25K), and resale ($30K+) pricing across 500 units

  • ?

    historical_signal: Clarification of Williams Manufacturing ownership history: Harry Williams did not own the company after 1959; Sam Stern sold it and later recruited Williams as designer for Stern Electronics

    high · George's detailed research showing Stern acquired 49% in 1946, arranged buyout and sale to Consolidated Sunray in 1959, then founded Stern Electronics in 1976 and recruited Williams

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.264

0:00
It's been such a long time I think I should be going Yeah Time doesn't wait for me It keeps on rolling Sail on On a distant highway Yeah I've got to keep on chasing dreams I've got to be on my way I'm starting to sing my new song Hello and welcome to another episode of the Classic Pinball Podcast My name is George And I'm here with the New England Leaf Peeper Dr. Dave Hello Dave Hello George Okay folks, gotta come clean You're probably wondering as an old listener When I mean an old listener, I mean somebody who's listened to us for a certain amount of time And for you new listeners, just kind of hang in there I'm going to pull back the curtain You've heard me say that time and time again. Well, the last three shows we did were all recorded at the same time about six weeks ago. This is the first time that Dave and I have sat face-to-face in six weeks. And the reason we did all those recordings, and you probably heard little nuances throughout those three recordings, you know, us laughing or referring to other games. Well, Dave had all those games set up and we took advantage of it. I had some surgery. I had a hip replaced. Things are great.
2:27
Ready to go. I have listened to, I can't tell you how many podcasts. I have three pages worth of notes. So if Dave's ready to go, I'll get started. I've just been working my tail off here, George. The pinball business keeps booming and I get plenty of stories from the field. but we're going to go off your list since you are writing a whole bunch of, well, a bunch of scribbles there, but it's a doctor's writing. You're a doctor as well, George, it looks like. Old news.
3:02
So do you remember us having this conversation about Harry Williams and Sam Stern and that neither of us really had an idea of when Harry Williams owned or sold his company? Do you remember this conversation? Yeah. There's a lot more to this story than I would have ever thought. Okay. You did some research. Good. I did because I was curious. So Harry Williams founded his first company in 1933, Automatic Amusements, and he had a game called Advance. That sounds right. I remember that. Forward to 1944, and he founded a company after his namesake, Williams. Here's where the story gets good. Two years later, Sam Stern.

high confidence · David Golden, email contributor describing venue experience

  • Hot Nudge pinball players came up with the term 'truck nuts' to describe the hanging ball device on Mandalorian's playfield.

    medium confidence · George, discussing colloquial naming from Hot Nudge community

  • “The game's actually going to work out of the box. No way. No, that's, I don't think so.”

    George and Dave @ James Bond discussion — Skepticism about code quality at launch for high-profile game

  • “Long time listener. Really enjoy the show. I like that it is very different from most pinball podcasts. You betcha. In that you don't focus on all the news.”

    Bo Jimmy (Norway listener, quoted by George) @ listener emails section — Positive feedback from international listener about show's unique approach

  • “Why is it that people in Australia have their pinball machines in sheds?”

    George @ Australian correspondence section — Raises question about Australian pinball storage/display culture for clarification from listeners

    • James Bond
    game
    James Bond Collector's Editiongame
    Fathomgame
    Rushgame
    El Torogame
    Mandaloriangame
    Bruce Nightingaleperson
    Rochester Pinball Collectivevenue
    Maine Silver Ball Tavernvenue
    Keith Elwinperson
    Bo Jimmyperson
    Grantperson
    David Goldenperson
    Haggisperson
    Hot Nudgeorganization
    Slam Tilt Podcastcontent
  • ?

    venue_signal: Maine Silver Ball Tavern reported as active pinball venue with diverse game lineup (EMs through Rush) and collector-friendly operations

    high · David Golden email: 'range of machines from a couple of EMs up to Rush... you can bring in your own food and it's a nice vibe'

  • ?

    community_signal: Growing international listener base providing feedback and perspectives from Norway, Australia, and other regions

    high · Multiple listener emails from Bo Jimmy (Norway), Grant (Australia), and others sharing locale-specific content and feedback

  • ?

    design_innovation: New Fathom remanufacture involved significant re-engineering of drop target mechanisms and reset arm systems compared to original

    medium · Bruce Nightingale discussing how reset arm hook was 'getting caught somewhere' requiring rework and noting multiple issues with early production units

  • ?

    product_strategy: James Bond Collector's Edition positioned at $14K retail for 500-unit run; distributor cost estimated $18-20K suggesting margin structure around $4-6K per unit

    medium · Dave's calculation: '$20,000... that's $10 million... for 500 pinball machines... you can make them... and come out with some profit'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Keith Elwin associated with James Bond Collector's Edition game design

    medium · George references 'Keith Elwin's Bomb game' and 'It's James Bond. It's Keith Elwin. The game's actually going to work out of the box.'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Fathom remanufactured game shows quality control challenges in third/fourth production units; mechanical wear appearing within weeks of operation

    high · Bruce Nightingale caveat: 'it was like the third or fourth one ever built so i guess there's a learning process' but noting drop target paint wear after 2 weeks

    • 3:58
    Sam Stern. Sam Stern, yes. Buys 49% of Williams Manufacturing. sam works for the company until 1959 along with harry i didn't go through all the games you can look all that up this is more about the business end he arranges a buyout and harry forms a company called southland engineering and goes off on his own and sam sells it to a company called Consolidated Sunray.
    4:30
    Two years later, 61, Williams becomes an independent operator. They become a separate company from Consolidated Sunray. In 1964, Seaberg acquires Williams. So, Harry Williams is long gone, but the part that I find intriguing with this story is Sam Stern, he's the business guy he he's not done he left williams in 1976 to start stern electronics and who does he coax out of retirement because you knew this harry williams harry williams was not involved in williams since 1959 things have changed i think the moral of the story is Sam Stern sharp business guy I guess there was remorse after he sold the company in 59 he felt bad because he made all the money I don't think Harry made all that much money so the Williams name was out there just Harry wasn't behind it did you know I didn't know any of this so who actually owned the Williams company, the Williams brand who owned that in the 70's then not Sam Stern it says it was acquired in 64 and i'm guessing seabird owned it up until i didn't copy that part down they owned it up until sometime in the 70s so the williams name is actually his name and they've it's been used all along right but he was never a part of it he sold the company wow but sam stern was the guy behind it kind of weird huh it's kind of weird yeah okay wow that's a little factoid Well, I figured we'd clear that up because I didn't know anything about it, and I'm guessing other people don't know it either. Just a guess. I did see something on YouTube that described, you know, this begot, this begot, this kind of thing. Stern bought out Chicago Coin and other things. It was a nice little walk down memory lane or acquisition lane, but yours was well done as well. A little different take on it, which was very informative. It's just you, if I were to ask most pinball people, they would say, oh yeah, Harry Williams owned the company. Right. He didn't. Yeah, sounds right. He did early on, but he was not a young man either. We talked about this. I mean, if he started his first company in 1933 and he didn't start working for Stern until the mid-70s or late 70s, he was not a young man. He was definitely into his late 60s probably. So anyway, I wanted to clear that up from past show.
    7:15
    Okay. Oh, this is a good one. How sick are you hearing about James Bond? Very. Very, very sick. You have not heard, I think, every single podcaster other than us. I only have one question. We're not going to talk about it. I get a better name for it. We're not going to talk about the game. I get a better name. You can tune into every other podcast and hear everybody else's take on a game that they haven't played. I'm upset because this thing's not going to be made until December. And there's a couple of shows that come before that. Expo and the Houston show.
    8:05
    Question is, are they going to have one there or not? I think they're going to rename this. It's going to be called James Bomb. Has anybody said that yet? That's not what people are saying. they're saying that everybody and their grandmother wants this game I don't think so I don't want it and I like James Bond oh see that was going to be my question I thought you were going to get rid of your Rush game well Rush game is in the chopping block did you get any takers from our last I got no weevils no but I'm thinking of replacing it you know I'm going to put it there instead George I got a line of nice El Toro it's going to look really good there instead of this Rush game we'll come to that so here's my take on James Bond that nobody else has talked about, what's the next thing that you think of when you think of James Bond? Sean Connery. No, no, no, no. I said other than James Bond.
    8:58
    Dr. Evil. No. How about Bond girls? Oh, yeah, them. Sure, okay. Okay. Can you remember other than the top? Something galore.
    9:14
    Yeah. Okay. Yes, that would be one. Pussy Galore is the one that most people know. I wonder why. They also remember Octopussy. Huh, I'm seeing a theme here, George. No, no, no, no. We're going to jump away from that. So I found this website with all the names of all the Bond girls. Tiffany Case. Is that one? Yeah, that's one. Okay, I'll look that up. Holly Goodhead. That's one. See, you do know.
    9:48
    Here's one. Strawberry Fields. Okay. That was a good one. Is she redhead? No. I bet she was. Where's the one? There's those two. Oh, this is the one I thought was great. Xenia on a Top. Ah, yes. She's kind of a psychotic girl that liked to cause pain, and she got off on it. Yeah.
    10:11
    What else is there? You got any others that you can remember? Here's one. Thumper. Yeah, Thumper and Bambi. There's like a recurring theme here, isn't there? There is kind of a thing, isn't there? Oh, Moneypenny. That's not. No, no. Merry Goodnight.
    10:27
    Kissy Suzuki. Jane Goodall. Oh, wait, no. She's with the... Oh, no. This is a great one. Chew Me. Where was that one from? I don't remember that at all. It's a paradoxical... Paradox? Is she Asian? I would guess probably one of the funniest names a person can have Chumi I like that one that's becoming my favorite anyway is there any others here that stand out well Honey oh no there is one the first Bond girl well Chumi had a brother his name was Something Wong do you know that at least you didn't use her first name and his last name it's not So the first Bond girl Do you remember Ursula Andress? Yes Under the mango tree Do you know what her name was? Uh Honey Rider That's a good one Okay, so a little bit different take on James Bond You didn't hear this on any other show Well you did Pussy Galore everybody just... That's a cheap one. But everybody loves saying it. You're allowed to say it.
    11:52
    Oh, Harry Willings, by the way. Flashback to that. So, Sam Stern felt guilty and said, hey, so you can do... I'm going to have you do a lot of games for us, like Galaxy, Flight 2000, Cheetah, Big Game, Ali,
    12:07
    all those games. Free Fall. Right. What about them? Williams did all those. Williams was the designer for all the Stern games. No, I know. I think he probably felt bad and said, come on in here and you can design your games. Oh, yeah. That's definitely part of the story. You can go read it out on, what, Pinball News? Is that the name of it? There.
    12:26
    It's First Fast and Free or something? It's out there. If you really want to read more about it, we don't do the deep dive. It's on Pin Wiki. Pinball News was the other place where I found that. But Harry, Harry, Harry, what were you thinking with the game called Q in 1982? I don't know. It's different, but... Yeah, we talked about that. Here's one from a while ago. We talked about Mandalorian. And remember I asked you that thing that hangs down in the middle of the game, and I called it a scrotum? I think it's called a hang low. No, somebody actually coined a phrase for that thing. Okay. Now, when I look at that, I think of driving in the South, and I see a pickup truck, and they have those testicles or scrotum hanging down. Well, Hot Nudge, the girls from Hot Nudge, or probably not allowed to call them girls, whatever, the women from Hot Nudge, the hot nudgers, they came up with a name. They called it truck balls.
    13:34
    I don't know. It's kind of crazy. Oh, no, no, no. That's the one I came up with. Okay, I was going to say. They call it truck nuts. Truck nuts sounds better. It sounds friendly. I was calling it truck balls.
    13:45
    It's kind of, you're revealing too much. The truck nuts sound a little more friendly. I'm just getting started.
    13:54
    Okay, this is a germ of an idea. Not a gem, but a germ. A germ of an idea. you'll understand in a minute I was reading Boston.com as I do most days and I had this epiphany and I think I might have mentioned it to you that I want to start a segment helping people who are going to come to Pentastic in a little over a year kind of like a travel tips type thing and I might not do it every show but I'm going to try to impart some wisdom or some facts you know just general information sure okay yeah so lo and behold what do i see on boston.com boston.com readers share their definition of mass hole okay now before you start getting your pitchforks ready and you know lighten those uh fire wands. Fodder's Travel hashed out the term meeting in a recent article.
    15:09
    Are you planning a trip to Boston soon? Prepare to meet some assholes. It's often used for aggressive or clueless drivers who cause many of transportation pains in the state. Now, I'll speak from experience. That's usually what I'm shouting when somebody cuts me off while I'm driving in and around Massachusetts.
    15:31
    However, caution, folks. This is my travel tip. Only use that term in the confines of your own vehicle with the windows up. Do not come to Pentastic and mosey up to that person who's got that rather distinctive... That's the word I was looking for. Truck nuts? No. how the hell did you go there no no they had you know they had that distinct voice you know they're from southie right oh yeah i advise you not to go up to that person and say hey a mass hole how's it going probably not a good idea that is not a good idea now oxford dictionary also had a definition and we'll leave it at this it's a term of contempt for a native or inhabitant of the state of massachusetts i happen to side with the first one more so than the second one but as a massachusetts resident do you find the term endearing or do you want to knock somebody's block off i knock their block off because i'm not a mass hole okay there are some idiots who are mass holes but not every mass this guy is a mass hole so so that's my travel tip these will come we have to come up with a name the problem with all these things it paints with a broad brush all the time you know but maybe it's just saying the idiot part is a mass how about how about hey folks we have opinions we're here to do entertainment if i didn't do this stuff you would shut it off and go listen to something else well you know so massachusetts has the mass holes right but you could live in portland oregon and oh no but the good thing about there though the local government has seemed fit to finally cure their homeless problem they by renaming it it's now called Urban Camping.
    17:41
    I've got lots of emails. It's been a month. Are they nice emails or are they constructive criticism emails, George? One was constructive criticism and it's valid and I've said it before and I'll say it again. You know, it is what it is. I'm sorry. We've got an email believe it or not from a listener in Norway. Oh, right. Was his name Fish Fingers? No. Oh, okay. I don't get this. His name is Bo Jimmy.
    18:13
    He's a transplant. Here's what I got from Bo Jimmy. Bo Jimmy here. Long time listener. Really enjoy the show. I like that it is very different from most pinball podcasts.
    18:29
    You betcha. In that you don't focus on all the news. Hey. Hey, only 90-something issues. You get it. You get it, man. Cool. Also, the tech talk is very good. Think about it. Thank you. More of that, please. Keep it up, guys. Kiss your wives for me. Well, I don't know if I know. Does that work? I don't know. I guess that's a compliment, George.
    18:53
    A little horny, maybe. Since I always listen using headphones, here it comes, Dave. Uh-oh. Yep, here it comes. Uh-oh. I sometimes wish the audio levels could be a little bit more optimized. Greetings and salutations from Norway. Valid point. Valid. Fair enough, sir. Fair enough. Valid. Okay. We're working on it. How about Danzig? He's commented before. He's the guy with the...
    19:28
    Help me. General League. oh yeah that guy yeah what's the name of the show Dukes of Hazzard there we go and he's wearing Davey Dukes and he made and I wanted to point this out because I replied without you knowing about it he was talking about the Ninja Turtle repair you did with the Data East display oh yeah and why didn't you use it and I took liberties and said because the customer didn't want to spend the money right but a good idea and you knew all about it so I wanted to recognize that he had also chimed in cool Oh, let's see. We already talked about Mr. Flipper Cooler. We don't have to talk about him again. Oh, David Golden. You know him. Oh, David Golden, yes. So he chimed in.
    20:17
    And he was talking about something that I talked about a while ago. um the main silver ball main silver ball tavern up in banger no portland no no south of portland it doesn't matter york no somewhere doesn't matter yeah um hi george i heard you reference the pinball pub in maine on a couple of podcasts it's worth a visit my wife and i checked it out a couple of weeks ago and it was a good time there's a range of machines from a couple of ems up to rush so there's something for everybody you can bring in your own food and it's a nice vibe the principal guys are all collectors themselves and the games played well so shout out to the main silver bowl tavern look it up online all right we'll check that out in front of me okay then we come to uh our australian correspondent grant yes hello grant hello grant he sent us a email which I will bring up and it's titled Alid. One out of the box boys. Was this from the vault? Loved it. A machine that's always been the background of my mind. Being a correspondent in Australia I can say I do actually know a little bit about it. As mentioned it was a machine that was built by leisure and allied importing kits from America just as Cosmic Princess was. The American counterpart was Allied Leisure. So if you remember Dave was a little confused as I was They just reversed the name when they were doing distribution in Australia Leisure and Allied also delivered I don know if I told you this Dave distributed Hankin machines. Are you familiar with these? Empire Strikes Back. That's one. FJ.
    22:12
    Dennis Lilly's Howzat. What is that? No, it's a story with FJ. This guy had a really fight with a guy named Jay. So he says FJ, and he put it out there. But what's Dennis Lilly's Howzat?
    22:26
    It's like, Howzat? I don't know. It's kind of urban. Shark. They also made a game Shark? I want to know who's naming these stupid games because they should be fired. Mr. Hankins.
    22:38
    Mr. Hanky. And several others about seven or eight machines. All Australia made games including arcade machines. 78... Is there anything else here? he talks about dave's five-incher that's the bell that's in ali um excuse me yeah but i would nope i can't even say that uh and then grant goes down memory lane saying hey i didn't know they called them my local expresso bar or amusement parlor so that would be called a coffee shop or an arcade here in america You know what they say? They say at that place, the motto is, if your kid is left unintended, they will give him a cappuccino and a puppy.
    23:26
    Who said that? That's their motto. They don't want the kids unintended. That's a store. When you go to an antique store, you leave your kid running around in the store, he's going to break things. If you leave your kid unintended, we're going to give him a cappuccino and a puppy. You ever heard of that one? No. Imagine a little kid running around with a cappuccino and a puppy. I'm not sure I really... He's wide up on goofballs. He's got a puppy. He's very excited.
    23:46
    No? Picture it, George. Clear to the mind. weak okay and then I heard this and this made me happy and we might have to get into this once you're done whatever you're eating and drinking over there um a study in Australia stated that two pints of beer a day will help prevent Alzheimer's this study was done in a pub by a pub owner I kind of like it I guess you would I do Most men would I don't think my wife would like it You know, she's kind of put the I'm doing it for health I'm drinking I don't want to It actually was really good in my rehab I kind of laid off the suds But that's kind of come and gone Good for you What else do I have? So that's those emails We did that. We talked about that. Oh, I got one. Well, you know, I know our good friend and correspondent can comment on this and maybe some other people. And I'll actually give the email address.
    25:03
    Why is it that people in Australia have their pinball machines in sheds? I did not know that. Now, I know Grant does. and I know there are others because I've heard them talk about their shed now is a shed mean a game room or is actual real shed where you put your your lawn equipment I don't know we're gonna find out so I know Grant you listen I know we have at least one or two other listeners in Australia so maybe you can chime in and straighten us out see shed could be an Australian term that you know how sometimes people say is Australian terms I go what does that mean we have to decipher it Well, just don't use the one Australian term that most women do not like, and it's an endearing phrase. Okay. Oh, I think I know. Oh, oh. That one. Okay. That one. Got it. Yeah. Does it end with a T? No. Not that one. No. Okay, good. It doesn't start with a T. No, end with a T. Yes, it ends with a T. It does. Oh, oh. It ends with a T. Oh, boy. Okay. I can pretty much get it. And I know you're not much of a sports fan, but again, to our Australian listeners, I actually watched an AFL game. That's Australian Football League.
    26:21
    That's a cool game. And if I ever get to Australia, I definitely want to go to one of those games. Talk about athletes. Talk about warriors. Talk about fun.
    26:32
    So it's a soccer ball or a football? Or neither? It looks like a football. I don't know if it is a football. And what's the game called? Australian Football. No padding? None. That's pretty sick.
    26:48
    Wow. It's kind of like rugby, soccer, basketball. Not hockey because you don't have a stick. It's a pretty wild game. Anyway, on your own time, watch that. But anyway, other people, I actually found it on Fox Sports 1. I had no idea I even got it. But next season I'll be watching. Well, speaking of sports. Go Magpies. Go Magpies, yes. What is a Magpie? That's one of the teams. Okay. All right, well. The something Magpies. Okay. The Mad Magpies. Maybe they're mad. I just keep thinking Heckle and Jekyll. Okay. I'll go with that. I don't know why. I just thought they were, you know. I just picked the team because of the mascot. Okay. A Magpie. Well, speaking of sports, sometimes, you know, Maureen and I work late. We're out at the customer's home working on their game. And, you know, it gets to be like 8 o'clock at night, so she doesn't want to make dinner. It's like, well, let's go out. So we go to the local place around here, the local watering hole. They have good dinner there. Go to the bar. And, of course, it's Monday night this time of year, Monday night football. And they've got football all over the screens at the bar. And so there's no one there except for her and I and maybe some of the other people in the restaurants. So it's kind of quiet on a Monday night, right?
    27:58
    And $5 burger special, so that's good, too. and good beer. That's cheap. Very cheap on a Monday. So, sure, the game's on and so I asked the bartender, yeah, do you mind if I change this? Oh, geez. And he said, sure, what do you put on? I said, can you put on some tennis? So, he put on tennis and I watched it. So, I just can imagine they go in the back room. You can't be with this guy just wanting to turn off Monday Night Football. I can't actually believe he changed the channel. He did. There must not have been anybody there. There was nobody there. I watched tennis.
    28:32
    So that was fun. Okay. I'm going to, I have to retrace. Keith Allen. Single level game. Bond. This Bond collector thing that they're coming out with. Yeah.
    28:51
    What do you think of that? I haven't really seen the collector one. You haven't seen it. Oh, but the rumor is going to be single level. not like the other ones.
    29:02
    Maybe it's going to be Quicksilver rethemed. Said it's a new game. Okay. I'd like to see it. Okay. Here comes the big question. We'll have an insider connect. I love that part. So the first one that goes either on Pinside, eBay, name whatever platform. What's it going to go for? How much? The list of the ask or the sell? Well, we'll talk about both. Okay. How much do you think it's going to be to the distributor? And then how much, because there's not going to be a list price on this thing. This is like a gimme to the distributor. How many are they making? 500.
    29:38
    Okay. There's a question in that, too, but answer the first one. What's the LE going for? Do we know that? 14 grand. Okay. I'd say it's going to go. No, that's what it costs the consumer. I'm asking you, what is the distributor going to pay for the game? Okay. All right. What are they going to pay for that super duper one? You're mixing and matching. I'm asking you, what is he going to, you know, you get the invoice, Mr. Distributor. Here's how much this game costs. Mr. Elwin's bomb game. Distributor is going to pay probably 14 grand.
    30:12
    Wow. Really? I think it's going to be 18 to 20 grand. Because do the numbers. You're making 500 of these things, right? Mm-hmm. So, at $20,000, let's just make the math simple. That's $10 million, is it not? Yeah. Okay. That's nice. Nice money. Right. Is that enough money to make on 500 pinball machines? With all the... It sounds like, yeah, you can make them. Yeah, you can pay Keith. Yeah, you can pay bond people.
    30:49
    Electric bills, whatever else you need. And you kind of come out with some profit. What do you think?
    30:56
    Plausible. But I think as you go for list price, you're talking, well. Only going to be 500 of them.
    31:05
    It's James Bond. It's Keith Elwin. The game's actually going to work out of the box. No way. No, that's, I don't think so. I don't know, man. Well, I'll bite the hand that feeds you. Well, maybe not. I don't know. Truth in advertising.
    31:25
    So how much is the first one going to go? It's the code complete. I know what I would say. I'm going to say to Mr. Consumer, what are you going to pay? Mr. Consumer is going to pay $22,000. No way. $30,000. He's going to pay $30,000. Really? I'm saying the first ad that comes out, first person who gets one, he's going to flip it. He's going to pay $30,000. No, he's going to sell it. Somebody who buys this thing, they're going to be flippers. I'm saying not everybody's a collector. Not everybody's going to hold on to it. I'm saying when I go to the distributor, it's like, yeah, you got $500 million. You might charge $25,000. I'm trying to say, put me down for one. I was going to say like. He ain't going to make $4,000. He's making more than $4,000. He might hold on to it for a while. S.A.C. Manny. He's still got one of those Elvira 40th anniversary things. Yeah. And he's just holding out for the price. Because he knows they kicked the can down the road again. They were supposed to make them next month. they kicked the can down the road and said well maybe in 23 and guess what it's going to be even more money than it is right now and that already went through a price increase it's getting where people come i'd like to know the banks people are robbing and no one's working so how does they get where's the money coming from i'm befuddled so i'm going to say i would think mr customer he's going to pay i was going to say 20 23 24 and then on ebay it's going to go for Like 30, 32.
    32:53
    You think more. You think 40. I think people are just throwing money out the window right now. I could get a brand new bathroom and kitchen. I could get a car. Yeah, exactly. I'm looking at the Rush game. I have money sitting there, like, you know, between 12 and 15K there that I could just, like, take that and just apply that somewhere else where it can be used. You bought it. I didn't.
    33:19
    fathom we've talked about the new fathom and that we'd both like to play it but i always had a question of how did they re-engineer the drop targets now i only know one person in one place that has one of these games okay it's the Rochester Pinball Collective that's Bruce right that's Bruce Nightingale so I got the bright idea of I'm going to send them an email why not did you do this already yes it's on their latest Slam Tilt podcast Ron Hallett and Bruce Nightingale they read your letter oh yeah oh it was great It was great. So, because I knew what was going to be said. And Bruce, I know most, I'm guessing a lot of people who listen to us listen to them as well. And I knew he was not going to be very kind. Did they slam you? No, no, not me. Okay. And I want to put apologies out there. I love what Haggis is doing. Damien, you know, keep doing what you're doing. Marty Robbins I don't want to crap on anybody if anybody it's Bruce and I think he's got a valid argument so I asked him about compare and contrast what's the old one like and the new one first words out of it it's beautiful this is Bruce Knight the game is beautiful accolades galore but his words not mine it sucks but it's the drop target it sucks now wow right okay so here's the end of the conversation and i'll fill in why it sucks at the end of the at the end and it went for like five minutes i was pretty happy i'm like i can't believe these guys they have no idea who this is and it'll obviously get back to them oh they know is you emailing them i have no idea. Oh, wow. I don't think they know. Oh, that's interesting. I mean, even though I've introduced myself to Bruce, I mean, they know you, but I don't think they know me. Okay. Certainly didn't know my email because they read it like it was just, you know, Hey, one of our emails. Wow. That's funny. So he gets to the end and he said, the reason I'm mad is we had it set up at the collective for two weeks it's been in the back room for seven weeks not working oh that's not good he also talked about and what do they call it a reset arm remember when i was here the last time the things with the little hook on it yeah yeah i guess on the inline in the inline targets up on the right hand side of fathom are there you would know this because you own one yeah yeah are there many coils that snap each one of those yes i know the snap them down to the whatever so the coil yeah operates yeah i guess that hook was getting caught somewhere okay and they weren't working so they had to do some work on it to get it to work but i guess there are other issues with this game and he put the caveat out there and i'll give it the break it was like the third or fourth one ever built so i guess there's a learning process but he said you know they basically re-engineered those drop targets oh the other thing he was saying the drop targets themselves were wearing out only after two weeks wait what do you mean wearing out i didn't go into the paintworks coming off you're gonna hear this so i'm sure we'll hear more as time goes on but here's the here's the kicker so again i'm bringing up the dukes of hazard yeah so remember Glenn Wexler. Glenn Close. He's the one who chimed in, I don't know, about something with, I don't even remember. But he was on as their guest. So it was kind of funny. And then I learned about Glenn. I had no idea. He's like the podcast master of the universe. He's on other people's podcasts. He replies to other people's podcasts. He says he listens to everybody. So I thought we were kind of special. Now I'm not feeling so special. But hello, Glenn. Hi, Glenn. Good to hear from you. Yes. And they both called me. What's this about? Everybody I ever meet, why does everybody have this inclination to call me Jorge?
    38:11
    They want to be a little Espanol. I don't know. That was kind of Italian. What was that accent? Espanol. That was not. That wasn't even close. Okay, I'll try again.
    38:24
    No, don't, don't, don't. Como estas, Ted? Yeah, okay. Hey, you know what? I had people just pick up my couch the other day, and they came over there. They're from downtown Framingham, so a little bit in the Spanish or Latino side. And usually if you're Brazilian, you speak Portuguese. And I heard them talking, and I've taken Spanish from middle school, so I kind of get it. You know, speak a little Spanish. And, you know, they came in there talking. I was like, I know what you guys are saying. So I started talking to them back in Spanish. They were shocked. They said, Portuguese? He goes, oh, no, no, Spanish. He goes, where are you from? Oh, we're from Uruguay. His name's Uruguay? Is that down south, right? South America? Somewhere down there. I don't know. But anyway. Yes, it is. Okay, good.
    39:05
    Hey, what's up, Doc? What's cooking? What's up, Doc? Oh, you're looking for bugs, bunny bunting. Doc is gonna hunting just to get a rabbit skin. But now the rabbit's gonna get. What's up, Doc? What's cooking? Hey, look out! Stop! I'm gonna hoist someone with an old shotgun Hey, what's up, doc? Turn your key, sir.
    39:34
    Okay. Very good, sir. So Dave is using the magic hat glass I gave him. My favorite glass, by the way. But I want your reaction. Check this beer out.
    39:44
    Rock Fantasy. Is that from New York? Yeah. Oh, is it the arcade? Yeah. Wow, very cool. He has his own beer, Equilibrium. I like it. I love that beer. I like it. I love that beer company. They make some great beer. So, Rock Fantasy, for those of you who don't live in the Northeast. Steve's the guy's name, right? Who runs it? I think it's Steve. Steve something. Yeah, I think you might be right. I went to his arcade. I've never been. I've been there. Never been. I want to go. but he owns doesn't he do like rock memorabilia yeah he does that stuff crap yeah rock crap albums he's gonna arcade there the whole deal plus he's got all the pinball machines right so equilibrium brewery which is also in middletown new york you're getting a free plug here they have a beer called rock fantasy my wife went to the beer store lo and behold she comes back with uh how is it That's good. I only had, Chance only brought two of them home, so I saved one. I was going to save two, but sorry, you lost. That's okay. You lost. I don't mind a half of one. You lost. Cheers. Oh, Kevin, fantastic. A lady called me up in Lexington. She grew up with this game, a child, back in 76. They bought a brand new or maybe a couple months old from an arcade owner they knew. It's actually pretty good. It is good.
    41:05
    It's very good. Oh, my God. I was Irish for a day at Bennigan's. They just closed two of these in New Jersey I just read about. I'm surprised that they're even around anymore. I think it's the one that used to be around from where I used to work and it was a good place to go. Oh yeah, Framingham was that one. That was a good place too. Back in the arcade days.
    41:29
    That's okay. Show up at her place basically she wants me to move it from Lexington to Pauling, New York. So, I said, yeah, sure.
    41:42
    But does the game work? Oh, yeah, it kind of works. It works good enough. So I went there, picked it up, and I told it, you know what, this game didn't work. It was weak. It was just tired. I said, this game needs some luck. So I said, if you have a little money in the budget, we can do that too. So, reading the price, the whole thing, brought it up to a nice and standard, plays great.
    42:00
    Drove out about a month later or so, drove out to Pauling, nice property there, delivered it there, set it up, It looks really nice in this new home. And, yeah, they already said this thing's never played this good. Okay, game number two. Six Million Dollar Man. That, two guys, a company called Wicked Healthy down in Kingston. Kingston, Mass. Okay. I would have said Kingston, New York. Because you were just appalling. That's true. Again, for people that are in Australia, they're just scratching their head going, what the hell are these two blokes talking about? It's all geography. Or they might be using the C word. They probably could. But that's endearing. It's popular. I think Bond uses it. I don't think it is. Did Bond use it?
    42:48
    Not really. There are so many jokes there right now. We're not going there. You're all about this whole, you know, say what you want, but, you know, you do have to put the brakes on at some point. It's called a little call. We call back. Innuendo works. Innuendo, certainly. you want to know. So yeah, I had a $60 man and did a little work on that, got that running, happy with that, so all the people that go into the store get to play that game now, along with another couple of video games they have too. So that's a quickie story. I bought a play field. I think it was from, you know, world famous Jeff. He's made some flipper work in that kind of thing. I think I bought a fully populated play field that was roached for $20.
    43:30
    And the only reason I bought it is because those rectangular targets on there, the red ones. I couldn't find them anywhere. So I bought it because I wanted to have some extra targets. And I don't think they've ever reproduced that target. So if you bash one and break it, good luck. Wow. I have a handful Where you get them Steve right No no no From that play field From Jeff For 20 bucks I thought it was worth it I mean, I got flippers out of it. Right. I'm sure the bumpers are destroyed. There's usually not much there. And if you do, I mean, you must have a box full of them. Bumper bodies. You must have tons of them. Right. I do, too. I get stock, man. Okay. Lots of stock. Okay. So that was a quick. So it takes me. No, it was a quick answer. That's okay. We haven't been together, and everybody wants to hear about your exploits. So which one do you want to pick? El Toro, whodunit, or Bronco?
    44:32
    Let's go with... Save the good one for last. Okay, yeah, we'll go with... You've got a Simpsons on here. I don't know if that makes any sense. No, it's more of a tech thing.
    44:42
    Okay, start there. All right, if I can remember. Hold on. Okay, if you need a couple minutes, go. We'll stop the tape. So which one do you want to talk about? El Toro. Oh, God, are we so organized. We're very organized. No, we're not. We haven't done one of these in a while. You know, everybody got spoiled. You know, we play podcasts on TV. Wait, let's do some accolades to our audience. Sure. Folks, thank you. You all loved the Stern games. And I keep thinking, Dave's going through all this rehab crap at his house. So that ain't going to happen anytime soon. But I really want him to set up some other games. Now I got the Jones. I'm like, oh, he's got to get some other Stern games in there. Do you have a Trident? I don't. That's old. It's a little too old school. That's like. I want one. I want one of them. I've changed my mind. Why? How? I don't know. I just think it's a cool looking game. I like the sea creature in there.
    45:43
    I think there's a mod for it too. You can make, you can bring it like. I don't care about that. That's your game. And if I do that, it's going to John. I'm not even going to give it to you because you have no time. I'll give it to John. He'll do whatever. And, you know, I promise this, and we haven't talked about it. I did it again.
    46:02
    Those precision flippers. Yeah. You know, everybody started off barking at that guy, and now everybody's kind of cuddling up to him. Interesting. I don't think they're half as bad as everybody makes them out to be. I don't know if their performance better but I think a lot of people shifted their attitude they were nayers and now they're yayers it's just like I don't want to come back to it Mr. Blower that's all he did was bloviate the guy with the coil fan oh yeah yeah Mr. Crap-on I want to know You think he had some bad blood with Gabe?
    46:50
    I don't know. It's the only thing I could think of. I didn't really read that much into it. It looked like to me he just said, oh, I'm just trying to. Why would you crap on it if you're not even going to it? You're not going as a vendor and you're not going to it as a producer. That's true. So what's in it for him? Nothing. I think basically he wanted to play, you know, I'm just going to tell the world here. What, just because he went from one Roach Motel to another? I mean, look. everybody's in the opinion you know that's his opinion yeah i know i just i just thought it was i just thought where somebody who owns a company i'll say it again just keep your trap shut i mean it's just yeah it doesn't do you any good that's true yeah and i'm bringing it to the surface because i thought it was insulting and i got the thing oh my agent told me i couldn't go So then I porked him once, and then he came back to me, and I said, well, my agent told me not to say anything else. Just, you know, don't be a Richard.
    47:52
    A Richard. Anyway, El Toro, whodunit, or Bronco? I don't even know what a, what's a Bronco, other than a football team? Oh, Bronco, a little Bronco. And a truck. You want the really good one? Oh, no, go in later. Oh, yeah, this is a decent one. A Bronco. So this Bronco I know you can see the things there But you know where a Bronco would live right? Yeah in a barn Well that's where this Bronco lives In a barn In an unheated barn In like a rickety old 1800 something barn That's where it lives How many inches of poop were on the glass? There was a lot of bat Bat guano? Bat guano, oh yeah a lot of that On the top Do you wear a mask and gloves?
    48:36
    You know me George You're sitting right next to me. We know the story, don't we? We'll put it this way. Don't we know the story? What story would that be?
    48:52
    Didn't they say that COVID came from a bat? Oh, bat soup. Didn't they say that COVID came from a bat? Wow. How soon they forget. You know what? I can see myself. I'm now inoculated. Now I have to explain the jokes to you. What is wrong with you? Oh, you know what? I didn't even get that. You haven't had George as your foil, and you forget how much fun this is. Yeah. And it ran right around. Interesting. Yeah, bat to bat. Bat soup to bat guana. Or guana. Okay, so you're in the barn. In the barn. And I'm not using my hand. I'm using a rag. I'm not touching this stuff. I thought you were going to say, yeah, I made Maureen go over there. No. Was she there? Yeah, she was there too. No, it was a nice barn. It was nice. It looks very welcoming. You have parties in there and stuff. It's got a little bar. But it's very open. There's no horses in there.
    49:46
    So, okay. So is there any more than the Bacquano? Yeah, there is. Yes, yes. So the game was working. I worked on it about three years ago. And then three years before that. So this thing's been living there for the past 10, 15 years. And it's doing really well. This freaking Gottlieb. Freaking 1970s Gottliebs. They're like, you know, it's like the Timex watch commercial. Single player? Wedgehead? Two player. wedge head maybe it's a four player wedge head no no regular head nope okay no okay so is that the story did a little work on some of the steppers and i think a flipper was doing something but actually the pretty easy one because i did all the work before so it's a little a pm just a little pm kind of thing okay we're moving mini spot moving what'd you do to whodunit the whodunit This was another bargain, was it not? Yes, it was, George. I bought a nice whodunit. I didn't think I wanted a whodunit until I got a call. Do you ever feel bad for Grant or other people around the world when you hear these insane, what did he tell us? Some dumb number. Some god-awful number for some game that doesn't deserve it. Like four times the price of what I would buy. Maybe the Aussie dollar and American dollar aren't on par. I don't care. Are they parody? No, they're not, but it's just gross. it's like half a lung in your foot and yeah we'll give you the pen yeah yeah you know I'm guessing kidneys probably are pretty plentiful over in Aussie land they're selling them or something's happening or loaning them I'm sure this guy called me with whodunit as I didn't think I wanted one I said but for the right price I'd I think he's he's moving or he's moving something he doing some downsizing or something. So I was there and they said, oh, just give me a good price. So we just kind of negotiated and I got it for a nice price. I didn't take it. I didn't give it away. So you left the six guns at home. Yeah. Because this was a really nice game. It's actually the newest game besides Rush I have right now. 1995. Whodunit. Very nicely polished game. Is that true? Yeah. Whodunit? No, no. You don't own a game beyond 1995? Just Rush. That's the newest game I have besides that game. Oh, no. Yeah. I never knew that. I never thought about it either. I just did recently. Okay, so you mentioned El Toro to me, and I immediately said, I remember playing that. And what was your reply?
    52:16
    I think it was, why? I said, why? Why? Why would you play El Toro? And I told you, because back when I played, it was a dime. and that you could play... That was the time it's always been a quarter. I don't think they had dime for that one.
    52:33
    I'll never forget it. When one of the quarter games was Roller Coaster. Yeah, I remember that one. That was a gauntlet. That was 75. Another Snore. That's another Snorefest. That's a cool game. Yeah, but it's stupid. You get the stupid rips there, and they don't do anything. But I think that was a dime, too. So we used to play that. When they went, when Bally went to eight ball, because that was a big game, it went to a quarter. And that was a big deal. But you could play two and a half games, you know, on the older games. You could get your dollar to go farther. I mean, back then, here's a buck. You had to make that buck go. And I wasn't a really good player, so that buck went quick. 10 cents a play went a little bit farther than 25 cents oh yeah definitely i used to play playing those arcades too they're still in a dime diamond i'm a little older yeah you know they don't want to hear this they know this they know okay so so what did you do that so what'd you do to el toro anything so this one here uh he's this guy he uh he had another game that you caught in a basket Yes, Basket. Oh, God. Another one, you know, the three-point land, George. They hate you. Our audience hates you. But you know what the hell the signal is? It was a free El Toro, and it's in really, it's in nice shape. It's like, yeah, because a lot of people played it. Well, what did you call it? El Snorro? El Boro.
    54:01
    I thought you called it El Snorro. But, you know, it's like with anything else. There's always a game, there's always a person. There's always someone that loves something you don't think is what you wouldn't play. you know so there's always a lover of this stuff out there somewhere so I said I was hemming and hawing should I go was it worth my time to pick this up even though it's zero that you know what though I felt bad for the Altura so because I felt bad for it I went to pick it up to save it was going to go in this freaking snap in the freaking dumpster yeah you don't want to see that I don't want to see that it's a pretty good game was okay listen yeah it's going to clear up really nice and I already have it pre-sold it's already sold okay so it's awesome okay so we got Is there any more on El Toro? You know, people are sick of you getting... I mean, not that you don't earn it, but... But there are people out there that just spent $15,000 on a game, and you're catching them. You're just like, yeah, you know, another week at the office. Here's why. You know, I think this... Oh, what, it's your dynamic personality? No, no, no. I think it's... Well, that helps too, but no, it's... You're not going to go into this whole web thing again, are you? No, web. What kind of web? The last time we got together, all you were like, I've got to maximize my website. Oh, no, no. No, no, it's okay. No, I get that under control. That's fine. Okay, well, from a podcast standpoint, from a personal standpoint, okay. I see I'm talking too slowly. I've got to talk less. They hate that too, George. All of a sudden, their earbuds pop out of their ears. Sorry, Dave Marston. A lot of people. we should advertise the latest advertiser on our show is the Hearing Aid Foundation because screw that I'll just buy it to the company and put the ad out there built in audience so the last thing on the agenda here oh no wait wait wait you still had El Toro no we had some kind of story that was going I got lost somewhere I was going to give an answer I forgot where we were darn it I have to rewind my tape sorry The audience knows right now. They're shouting out, hey, pick me. Hey. We'll look later. We'll find it. I've actually gotten better at going back and writing things that we didn't do right. I will say, George, case in point, that's really good beer.
    56:24
    Yeah. I have more. So let's – Wait, hold on. One more thing, sir. One more thing. So the Who Done Again. I didn't finish that story. that story there, got it for a really nice price I was plain surprised the game actually worked it just had a just failure on it or whatever no problem, fixed the board, got it working and it's a clean example cabinet, everything on it, really nice so I bought it to sort of rescue that one too, I knew that was going to be worth something down the road, I was going to restore it for me, and I still am going to restore it I'm going to make a really nice copy of this, I'm going to do all kinds of cool stuff I put a real taxi cab I bought a diecast 143 size taxi cab, yellow checker cab and from this place called diecast.com I think and that's going to go in the game as my little toy I'm going to actually I bought some light, I bought some special Rush has gotten to you stop it with the toys and mods no, pinball is all about toys and toppers George I'm going to give you my topper for El Toro go to Texas get a big set of those Texas Longhorns and mount them on the frick of the back box. And if you really want to get sick, maybe you put two red LEDs on the tips so they'd light up or something.
    57:45
    Stop. I should have done what Zach meant. He comes up again. When he was just professing, hey, you should buy all these toppers. I should have. I just should have listened to him. I should have just sent him a check and said, you know what, Zach? just pack the box and send me some stuff. I would have made like two or three times my money. People are retarded for this stuff. You included.
    58:12
    Speaking of El Toro and Ahmad, and like you just said, that's a great point. I have a friend of mine's father who died as a big gun guy shooting stuff out in the woods and eating the stuff and mounting all the horns that were in his game room. And I was trying to give all the stuff away and I said, I never really thought of a need for one. It's like, El Toro. They get some real stuff I can put on top of this game. And you know where this game's going to go? It's already pre-sold. It's going to go to a veteran... A rich Texas businessman? No. Better, George. A veteran outreach center. A rich internet businessman? No. A veteran outreach center. It's very nice. A veteran outreach center. Okay.
    58:53
    Yeah, they're going to play it there? Oh, yeah. Oh, you've got to... Anyway, okay. I'm talking soft again Oh, you know what? That's going to kick back again We're going to weave back again I just remembered what we forgot to say I didn't forget to say it, you did Well, I know I did, but you were listening but you couldn't bring me back I only half listened, remember? Okay, now I'm getting it So, anyway, why I have the basket underneath me I'm catching these games for either zero money or very fair price money for me, anyway, low price You know, you've got to work these things up and spend more money and time and labor on it to get them nice. Everybody knows. But, you know. So by me going out and I try to put good vibes out there. When I'm working on the machine, when I'm dealing with people, I'm trying to put out, you know, nice, you know, everybody have a nice day. You know, I'm a thankful spirit out there. I try to go. And so by doing that, putting this good into the world, I think, kind of a comically kind of deal, I think that's why the pill machines fall into little baskets for me. I think when you put good out there, you get good back.
    59:57
    So George, Warren and I were coming back from Maine a couple weekends ago and we picked up this game. 1975 Old Chicago. I was not in the mark for an Old Chicago but I did recently see Eric Stone warring on it with some other players probably a couple years ago. It was on YouTube. It looked interesting. I liked how they were playing it so I was like I'll pick it up.
    60:27
    This lady called me up. She had it. Can you come get it? And so I'm not looking for anything. I just want to go to a good home. Like you said before, George, just hold out the basket. It's one of those hold out the basket things. You know, our audience is getting sick of this.
    60:41
    Come up with one. No, never mind. I'm not even going to give you that. Just continue. So we go over there on the way back home. It's in Atkinson, New Hampshire, which will play an important role in this story at Gibson, New Hampshire.
    60:58
    I can't imagine why. It's a little foreshadow. I know where it is. Just go ahead. So just come get it. The glass has been long gone on it, but the back glass is nice, and the plate feels nice, and I'm not sure if it works, but I've had... Give me the story to it. What's going on with it? This is still email before we got them. Give me a little back story. Well, I've had it here for a little over 20 years, and it was my deceased fiance's game. And I've just had it here since. And he died back in... You and these death pinballs. Didn't we just have the drunk brother? Yeah, another one, right. Yeah, true. That's true, yeah. They pass them on to me. I'm kind of the repository of... I don't know. So people out there, if you're looking for pinball machines, just watch the obituaries. Just call people up and say, do you have any pinball machines? I don't think it's going to work out that well, but you could do that.
    61:54
    Well, the guy who owns the funeral home in my town, he's actually a pinball collector. Oh, well, maybe that's why. He probably got all these games from that. You know, I never asked him that. I bet you that's what happened.
    62:07
    These poor widows. That's something you really talk about when you're at the funeral, although we did have a long discussion about pinball. See? There you go. I'm sure he talked to all these widows and so forth. Yeah, he's first in. I never thought about that. There you go. I bet you there's a story there. So you're the pinball Grim Reaper? Grim Reaper, I guess so. Yeah, I come to collect.
    62:30
    Instead of collecting souls, I'm collecting pinball machines. So I said, yeah, you know, he died back in 2008, and I have no room for it or whatever. So, okay, I'll come get it. Not that I wanted one of these things, but, yeah, I'll work on it. I'll be like Indiana Jones and wheel it in the big warehouse in the back there, hopefully to be seen at some point. So we show up there. Garage is open. Pull there. Game's sitting there. Apart, head, body on legs and so forth. Talking a little bit. It's her and her mother. They're about, she's like around, she's in her 60s, the ex-fiance, the fiance there. The fiance that never, you know, tragic story.
    63:14
    And this is the game. We're talking more. and I said, yeah, so tell me a little bit more about the game. Well, it's my fiancé, he was in a band years ago.
    63:27
    And all the band members back in the, when this game was made, I think this game was made in 76. They just had a hit album, and the producers of the album wanted to each give them each of the members a pinball machine they all got an old chicago since that was a brand new game from bally that time frame so he gave them all a game in his band do you know the band name oh you'll know the name in a second everyone's gonna know the name in a second so then i'm looking up i think i know who it is but go ahead okay so then i'm looking up over the game, in the garage, there's a picture of the band playing live. You know, a live shot of the concert. Now, have you seen this band live? I have, but in a later incursion of this band, probably about five or six years ago. Okay, go ahead.
    64:22
    Maybe only one original member was in there, possibly, I think. So, yeah, that's my fiancé up there, the lead singer. I know who it is. you do well because i live in the area okay okay they have a okay they have a concert in his memory every year oh wow okay um it was the lead singer yep um it was the hugest album when i went to college in 1976 okay you're yeah you're getting it yes it's named after a famous city in massachusetts That's right.
    64:59
    Go ahead. Tell us who it is. So look up there. Concert photo above the game is the band Boston. The lead singer, Brad Delp. The fiancé, who I was just talking to right there, she was a fiancé, Brad Delp. And there you go. So to give this game some prominence. Yes. Prominence? Whatever. Whatever the right word is. Do you have a picture of him Playing this game? I do not have that But once, I'm going to restore this game up Might keep it for a while But when I do sell it I'm basically going to have it as Brad Delp's game And I can say Any questions you can Call her Or email her or whatever And she'll tell you But if you look up a picture of Brad Delp on the internet there lots of pictures of her and him together as a couple Right but I saying what would make that game famous is if you had a picture of him playing it
    66:08
    Anybody have that picture? We have a lot of people who listen. I'll have to search for that. We have a lot of people who listen locally. We have a lot of people who listen all over the world. But, yeah, that's a good, I kind of knew you were going to go there with this story, but that's a good one. Now you know the rest of the story. So let me tell you about this phoenix that just came in. We're going to. That's Williams. That's a Williams phoenix. And do you know. Anything about it? No, you don't have to look it up. Tell the story. I'll look it up. You look it up. Late 70s, 77, something like that. so after working on many many of these classic williams games they all suffer from the same thing they're actually they're they suck no they're decently built games but they just they're just missing a couple pieces that they're really crappy to repair they are unless you bulletproof them you can we can rebuild and make it better we have a third going once i gave you two reasons I'm a jerk you know I'm telling you some of these Williams games if you actually if you make them nice like I'm going to make this Phoenix I have a lot of Williams games I've worked a lot, I've learned a lot and there's some things in there you're definitely going to do these games and you can just bring them right back to playing as good as new if not better like the Phoenix I have in here a World Cup It's got a Gorgar in here. Okay, first of all, there's nothing bad about this game. It's got drop targets, and it's got a spinner. And it's got a real spinner, not a crappy spinner. And it's got those two targets in the middle by the bumper. That's unique. That looks like death on two wheels. Okay.
    67:58
    Metal Italian bottoms. I like that, like on Embryon. All stainless steel? Yeah. Right? The lane guides, right? That's like on high speed and the rest of them. Okay, so, okay.
    68:14
    That's a lot of yellow. A lot of yellow. Go ahead. So, what I'm going to do with this game is replay the drop targets, and these games are always piss poor. We're back to the drop target thing. Yeah. Williams drop targets back. They use a horseshoe actuator and it's flowing along the backside of a bake-a-like thing with some metal strips on it to make contact because it slides down all the way to the bottom and then does a different signal so it knows where it is when it goes up or down and in between and scoring. It's just way too complex for what the mechanical... Your description doesn't even... I can't even figure out what that is from your description. Really? Let's say a horseshoe contact. No, I know what a horseshoe is, and I know what bakelite is, but I just can't picture what that is. Well, a drop target. A drop target is a piece of plastic. Okay. Let's say a plastic drop target. Okay. And on the back of that plastic drop target, there's a little circuit board, a flat circuit board that has, you know, a printed out thing of like some contact points. And as this horseshoe, when you hit the drop target down, the horseshoe slides down. It's going beep, beep, beep. Sounds complicated. Sounds Rube Goldberg. Yeah. When it works, it works great. So I wasn't wrong when I said... Piece of crap? Yeah. Yeah, they have some piece of crap, but you can make them better. So what do we do? We go to that magnetic read switch situation. I knew you were going to say that. The best invention ever. But I still want to know... Right, but why are they so expensive?
    69:46
    Well, let's see. Other than I know something you don't know. There's that. Okay. Well, you get paid for that. So you get paid for that. I don't mind paying for that. No, I... Hey, hats off to him. I made the suggestion. Thanks for making them. I made the suggestion on Amata Hari, and I almost got my head bit off.
    70:05
    You went for Amata Hari? No. The two lanes on the right-hand side that go over those triangle... Ski jump? No. Ebook and Ebel? No, no. On the right-hand side, the two lanes. Yeah. You could go up, you can go down. Yeah, sure. But if you put magnets, that thing would work no matter what. magnets for do what the magnetic read switches instead of the regular switches that are in there oh instead of the ab get rid of that well how could they work anyway they work all the time yeah they work but i don't know i'm just a jerk you know at 40 bucks a whack i'm rolling the spend 80 well you know what you could have cpr remake the whole game have no switch cutouts there and just have it underneath the underneath i think it would be great to have them on everything right it would never it would know what you had a business but uh you know what oh you get the original installation and they get a big bill here's what i don't get why don't stern the rest of these new manufacturers do that why don't they have made it why are they 40 bucks it's a hunk of plastic with a magnet and two wires coming out well it's a little bit inflated come on but still come on why don't any manufacturers do that the only ones that did it was star trek next generation of williams the 90s and i still think pinball's best years were 70s through the 90s you're going down the rabbit hole i'm going to introduce something that you probably haven't thought of what's that what's the name of the company that we bought these things from whoever they are we'll think about it later what if they made a magnetic reed switch for a spinner yeah why not sure it's coming I'm sure at some point that's been too much some people don't like when it spins too much George they're spin haters okay show and tell you done you done i'm done with which we don't know this williams phoenix thing you're talking oh no not done yet i'm almost done i just did the drop target part so that that that mrs switch i apologize i apologize to our listeners this is what happens when you don't record for six weeks and so what you do is you take this you get stupid is what you do you take these tight these uh neodendium magnets these little small little guys and you glue them to the back of the drop target you install a brand new pcb thing with the little magnetic things on there when those targets drop bang they drop down hard harry homeowners all over this drop down hard awesome and no sticky drop target in the middle none of that crap no scoring forever and ever makes a score, does its job the right way the way it's supposed to be. It's actually, it works better than even Bally drop targets, the Stern drop targets, because it's all magnetic. Ooh, sacrilege. Ooh. Yeah. Okay. But I still like Stern and Bally drop targets better. Now are you done? No. I haven't even begun to find. Just a couple more. I get even, these people want tech tips, I'm going to give them some. You know, they paid their money. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. Did they pay their money, George? No, no one paid their money. You know that's like the gigantic controversy, don't you? No. Oh, come on. Oh, that's a good lead-in.
    73:16
    There's like this podcasting war now of should we start a Patreon page? Would people actually pay to hear this crap?
    73:28
    I'm not going to steal it from Bruce Nightingale. He wins. He's like, in the only way he could say it, expletive, expletive, expletive. we're never ever going to take money we're just going to do our content i agree amen this is a hobby we don't ask you to listen on top of that um but but people are starting to put up patreon pages and people are getting pissed could it be patreon has some dark stuff in their closet it's just people are greedy everybody's all bummed out about canada canada canada whatever the hell whatever who cares look it up look up their darkness i like getting canada just keep putting out some free crap and i'll listen to it and i'll plug you and i'll and i'll take it filtered through george and uh and grant yeah grant's been really good about it anyway are you ready are you done with this phoenix thing because i want to go to the show and tell okay i've been I've been chomping at the bit. Not chomping, folks. It's champ. Like, I am the champion.
    74:40
    Next show. Wasn't it a Bond girl chomp? No. Next show. I didn't see this on cable before. I don't know what you just said. I'm going to cringe when I hear it. A Bond girl chomp. Oh, no. Choo me. It's like choo, but it's also chomp and chomp. Chomp me? That's her sister. Chomp. Chomp and choo.
    75:00
    I have a name, but I... We Too Low? Something Long? No, it starts with rug. Sorry, I can't. Yes, you can. No, I don't have to. That's the best part about it. All I have to do is say it, and everybody goes right there.
    75:20
    This is too long. Nah. Would you please grab whatever that bottle is over there, and can we do show and tell? Because I have a really good show and tell. Oh, biting at the bit. And I don't know what he's going to show me. You know, we always F this up because... I should have you taste this first. Yeah, you know what? I want to know what it is before I taste it. You're going to like it. There's no liquor. I'll give you that. Is it cherry? No. Is it maple syrup?
    75:47
    Maybe. Is it boysenberry? No. It looks like cough syrup. You're not going to poison me, are you? Yeah, try that. It looks like fricking... Try that and let me know if that's the best syrup you've ever had. Best maple syrup.
    76:01
    Yeah, what the hell is that? It's crack. Oh, my God. Tree juice. Bourbon. Oh, my Lord. Where the... Was this at the Garlic... The Garlic Festival in... Okay, I got to plug this. Oh, my God.
    76:27
    I'll tell you where the winner is with this. If you can combine this with some kind of alcohol, oh, my God, you've got, like, the most incredible shot in the world.
    76:38
    Tree Juice Maple Syrup is made in the Catskill Mountains of New York. We age our pure maple syrup in oak bourbon barrels.
    76:50
    There's no way. Oh, there is a website. It's just what you would think. TreeJuiceMapleSyrup.com. Oh, my God. That is awesome. So he had all these different flavors. It's called tree juice at the festival. And they had vanilla, they had blue. Taste test. Okay. Winner, winner, winner, chicken. Nobody walks away. Nobody walks away without it. How much for that? Ten bucks. Eight bucks.
    77:22
    Makes you feel good. Yeah, exactly. Right. It's not ten. No, it's not ten. It's eight. It's not five. Right. It's not ten. Right.
    77:31
    So they had all different flavors. They even had a whiskey one. I tried them all. They all were good. Yeah, yeah. As soon as I hit this one, I said, well, first I said, tell me. So we can pour that on pancakes? Well, first, I said, what about this one? I didn't try it yet. He says, oh. I said, this is my favorite. I put that instead of sugar, put it in banana bread. Put that instead of sugar. Put this stuff in there. He said, your banana bread is fantastic. When Janice comes back, give her a taste of that.
    77:58
    Want some more? No, no, I'm good. That's... Isn't that... Tree crack. What's it called? Tree crack? Tree crack. Yeah. It's just called tree crack. It's called tree juice. And I was kind of... I was skeptical. Okay. So you eclipsed me. Sorry. Scott and Christy. Sorry. I can't compete with tree juice. But Dave's going to be very happy. All right. So Scott and Christy from near Rochester, New York, who we met when we were in Ohio. Yeah. There you go. Yep. Okay, you're... I'm right there. You're there. They finally sent,
    78:40
    because I lapsed in not sending them my address because I wanted to surprise you, they sent me something. So here, George, let me know if you like this design. I can change and or make some more if you'd like. Keep up the awesome podcast. Say hello to the doctor for me. Take care, Scott. Nice. So Scott and Christy. A handwritten letter. That is so nice. So there you go. Oh, wow.
    79:05
    Looks nice. Very nice, guys. There you go. Yeah. So basically, Dave had a logo in mind, and Scott reproduced it in a sticker.
    79:15
    Scott sent me the link, so you can, I guess that all comes off. There's no backing. It's all individual. The letters and the microphone. Okay. you understand, right? It's not one complete sticker. Yeah, it's all one. Everything is individual. Every letter is individual. So you've written some print shop or something. Is that what you do?
    79:35
    Again, Scott, I knew this was coming because I don't know the answer. I don't know how he made these. He must have software. He's smarter than you and me. How's that? I don't know how he did it. But it looks good. I mean, it's exactly what you...
    79:52
    You must have showed him. Did you show him this? You must have. I must have shown him. I think I did. That or you talked about it. Yeah, I did talk about that. I wanted that there. Either he's really smart or he's very telepathic. Yeah. And that's scary. Now he, oh, I'm going to put the shout out and see if he bites.
    80:15
    You know that Christy and he have a new game. See how astute you are in remembering. As of Ohio show. It had not come in yet. Okay. They were waiting for it. Waiting for it. This is a tease. I'm going to give you a hint. It's a tease. Okay. A tease. Okay. For our next show. Okay. I know what it is then. I got it. What is it? Halloween. There you go.
    80:43
    Yep. Don't say anything. I won't say anything. I will say we played it. We're going to talk about it. We played it in Ohio. We're going to talk about it. It was in Ohio. You got to listen to our next show. Yep. We're going to do Horror Show 2.
    80:56
    The ins and outs and horrors of these games. Some are horrible. I have no idea what it's going to be. But we'll put it together. Okay, so that's my show and tell. You can get the underbelly of this. We're done. We're way too verbose this week. Do you have anything to say to close out the show?
    81:17
    Bill Davis, where are you? Call in. I'll get your reaction. All right. I will put this at the end of the show again.
    81:36
    Where is it? Right here. Okay. Have you heard this clip? I might have to edit this out and insert it again, but listen. that's Janice's hair dryer sorry okay two or three words here is your president President Joe Biden telling you listen to me just two words let me start off with two words made in America I saw this a couple days ago you know he's gonna be acting he can't count he's an actor he's a puppet man he's no way that dumb come on if he was that dumb they'd yank him off stage they're letting him sit out there and do that is that funny it can go deep if you said it or I said it would not nearly have the impact anyway it makes people not fearful at all We can totally trust the guy in charge. Off the soapbox. Someone wants us in fear all the time, George. I don't know. I'm going to go the other way. I'm not in fear. Anyway, close out. Say goodbye. Say thank you. Say tree juice for all. Love goodness and good light out there. That's what I'd say. Tree juice. And tree juice. There's jokes in that, too, that I can't. There are some jokes. I was thinking of going there at some point. We'll think about that. No. Next show. We have a lot of good stuff next show. I have some games I didn't get to talk about this show, but next show there will be some nice stories on those games and so forth. Anyway, Drake, where were we? Goodbye.
    83:22
    Goodbye. Turn it off. That was just on again. Turn it off. I watched it again. That one? It was on again. That was on again. You know what? I've never even seen that movie yet. Oh, come on. I have not seen that movie. I've watched it like three times now. Wow. I watched that particular part.
    83:39
    What's it called? something about making the bomb baby jane no no i don't even know the name of the no he's not not that's the that's george c scott and doing that how i love the bomber right that's not the turn it off one yes it is he didn't say turn it off there yes he did well if he does he doesn't even the other one is even worse he's watching he's watching his daughter no no no you're right daughter's in a porn he's watching and then trying to freaking find out who's making a You're right. Oh, I got to cut all this out. Yeah. Oh, I'm looking stupid. Anyways.
    84:10
    Hi, Dave Marston. You're right about George. Too much anesthesia. All right. Good night, everybody. Thanks for listening.
    84:23
    Good night, Gracie. Good night. Good night, Irene. Everybody be well and be safer. The Pinball Podcast episode, I don't know, 93, 94. We're getting close. You know, I'd say moderate your safe and be a little adventurous. I would say moderate your intake. I would say go for it and get it out there. No one's going to do it for you. You be quiet. I'm going to get in trouble when she comes home, so be quiet. Okay. You're in trouble. George in trouble. Good night, everybody, and have a great day. David, what have you been doing?
    84:57
    Yep, hanging out with George. Anyway, again, the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George. His name is Dave. and we'll see you in a couple weeks. Peace. Oh, my God.
    85:09
    Oh, boy. This is going to be an editing nightmare. Turn it off. Turn it off!
    85:29
    Turn it off! Thank you. Let me start off with two words. Made in America. Who do you call when you want your pinball machine restored? Dr. Dave!
    87:27
    Dave! Who? Dave! D-A-V-E! Yeah, Dave! Right. Oh, hey there, little guy. uh, er, less than little guy. Oh, gosh, it looks like my lizard Jorge is in Gore-Hade. Jorge. Jorge! But, George, you don't know what you're saying. You're under their control.