it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teals you can find everything on pinballprofile.com we're on facebook instagram twitter x at pinball profile you can email pinballprofile at gmail.com and if you'd like to show your support on patreon that would be nice not necessarily the show will always be free but it certainly is a very nice thank you and it keeps the show going. That's patreon.com slash pinball profile. And thanks to wonderful people like Albert A., Lua W., GME Law, Rodney C. Thank you again for your kind donations. Here at IFPA 19, it's at Jim Belcido's place, Marietta, California. A wonderful location, but it's where the world comes. It's nice to see this gentleman back again in California, because he was here for Indisc, but he's back again representing the Netherlands. The Dutch! Could they win it all? It's Bart Volman. Hi, Bart. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. How are you, Jeff? Nice to see you, my friend. And I like that you and I had a little conversation. We were just shooting the breeze as we do when we get to see each other. But you told me a bunch of interesting stories. I thought, okay, we've got to do a pinball profile. I mean, I want to anyway, but some unique things too. And really, I want to first of all talk about what it's like pinball in the Netherlands. A lot of locations, hard to find. What's it like? Well, the good thing is it's growing. It's growing, I think, quite rapidly, especially in the area that I'm in, which is in the south of the country. But when I started collecting pinball, you know, as a kid, I always liked to play pinball. We talked about this, right? In the 90s, I played my first pinball machine. Still remember the game. It was The Getaway, Ice P2. It's Steve Ritchie, right? It was Steve Ritchie for me. Oh, man, yeah. And that soundtrack always stuck by me. And I never knew that it was a song from ZZ Talk. So when I heard this song for the first time on the radio, I was like, wow, I know this. But it's just nothing, right? It should be an 8-bit tune. But yeah, that was a great game. And then in the 90s, the games were all gone from public places, and I didn't play pinball for 10, 15 years. And then in 2012, I actually thought about, let's just buy a pinball machine. I was finally working, and I had some money to spend. So I started looking for a game, and I was under the assumption I was only going to buy one. Quite naive, maybe. So I bought an Indiana Hilton Jones. The good one, the Williams one. Yeah, it was a great game to start out with, and the collection grew quite rapidly. You can't just have one, right? It's like a Pringles chip. You just can't have one. Right. And by then, I had no idea that there were even public places anymore that had pinball machines, that there were collectors, that there were tournaments. I was completely surprised. But I found out in the years after, and the deeper I got into the hobby, the more I liked it. So it got a bit out of control. But coming back to your initial question. So by then, there were no public places to play pinball at all. Now we have the Pinball Museum in Rotterdam. In Rotterdam, yeah. That's awesome. Fantastic place. We have a few local places in Eindhoven. That's the city I'm closest to. And that really helps to get people to get to know pinball again. Because, you know, the old guys like us, we know pinball from when we were young. But people are now in their 20s. And in the Netherlands, they never see pinball. So it's good that it's not developing again. And there are more and more collectors also. So it's definitely on the rise. No, that's good. I know when you come to North America and you click on the pinball map, it's everywhere. So not so much. But it's really more home collections. So that's why they're not showing up on the maps. But that's the way the games are made now. They're more for home collections too. I mean, arcades certainly do well. Look at this man right here, Jim Belcido. Yeah, awesome collection. Yeah, I mean, he's been doing quite well with operating all kinds of games, whether it's redemption games, obviously video games, and definitely our love, pinball games too. You know what? I was in Amsterdam for a day. This was last year before the IPA 18 in Germany. And I would have gone to Rotterdam, but I think the day I was there was a Monday and the museum was closed. I've since talked to them like, you could have called. I'm like, I didn't want to. You should definitely go there if you have a chance. Oh, I want to. It's a fantastic place. It's beautiful for sure. But another thing that interested me too, we were talking about movie documentaries. How fascinating they are and how maybe there aren't enough of them or maybe we hopefully can see some more. But there are some classic ones out there and I think we've all seen the same ones. Yeah, so the one that was one of the first ones I saw I think was Special and Lit, sure. And this was when I was just getting into competitive pinball playing some local tournaments not even the big tournaments But I i was fascinated a lot of characters but also the passion for for you know the hobby the sport it was fascinating to me and funny thing is i went to uh california for work in 2015 i think okay and i think i saw a special one late in 2014 and i was at a bar you know after work in in sunnyvale and um we were not at that bar by coincidence because there was a pinball machine i looked it up and there was a spider-man and we played a game with a few colleagues and then sat at the bar grabbed a beer and a guy comes walking in walks up to the game and i'm like i know this guy and i was like how can i know a guy on for me the other side of the world in a random place playing pinball and i thought i know this guy from the special in the documentary it was rick steda oh wow rick i didn't know for sure so i looked at him i thought i i won't forgive myself if i don't ask so i walked up to him and said sir are you rick stedda world champ and he looked yeah and he looked at me and said yeah yeah i'm rick stedda but he had no idea why why i knew so i i didn't just start to explain to him that i saw special and lit and and that i recognized him he didn't believe me at all so so i really had to convince him that this was and that there was a pinball fanatic okay let's let's play a game and then he saw how you know enthusiastic i was was he animated like i expected then he was like yeah come on oh there we go and yeah let's grab a beer it was a great night yeah yeah i was was absolutely fantastic so this is the first movie the first documentary i saw and then i saw tilt the battle to save pinball about the whole pinball 2000 absolutely fantastic i've watched it countless times it's uh it's a great documentary but indeed i think there should be more yeah i I mean, that one was Gomez, Papaduke. Who else was in that, too? Roger Sharp. Roger, yeah. And, yeah, the late Slim and Sheets. Sure. Of course, Roger's movie really was pleasant to see. Put on the big screen or certainly on the streaming services. That was wonderful. And it was good for people who, first of all, love pinball. I mean, Roger used to say, I'm worried the pinball people will think it's not enough pinball. But it was a good story and good history lesson. And then for the other people that weren't into pinball, it was that great story. and the interest between him and Ellen. And, oh, yeah, Pinball's in the background. You can watch it together with your friends who are not into Pinball as much as you are. I didn't know it was banned. All those kind of stories come out. It was really the perfect world movie. But another one, too, obviously close to me being in Canada, was Robert Daniel and Wizard Mode. Another great documentary about one of the best players, certainly at the time, but really more than just that and how Pinball really helped him. and obviously it has for many people with autism and you were telling me a neat story about what's going on in the Netherlands. Yes, so indeed. I saw the movie in the past year somewhere and I knew Robert already from Indisc. I was in 2018 and 2019 and I think what's very, very great to see is that someone who struggles in life really has created an identity around pinball and I think I'm from what they call the smartest square kilometer in the world. There's a lot of high-tech companies in Eindhoven, the region. And I also work at one of the big tech companies there. And there's a lot of people there that have autism or neurodiversity. One of the highest per capita in the world, isn't it? I think it's the highest capita in the world, yeah. So I have a lot of colleagues that I work with who also have kids that have autism. And whenever I see people somewhere on the spectrum playing pinball, I see they're fascinated, so into it. They seem to, just like Robert Gagnon in the Wizard Mode documentary, they really found their space to just be themselves for some reason. So I think this is one of the things that could really help a lot of people in the area that I'm from. You know, parents, children, people that maybe struggle to be socially active, to, through pinball, meet other people, have a fun thing to do. And I know the Project Pinball. Oh, yeah. In North America, Daniel Spohler does wonderful things. In fact, even here at this tournament, there's a galactic tank force from American Pinball, and there's a little side tournament where proceeds go to Project Pinball. Yeah, it's amazing to see. And I think something like that could definitely work in the area that I'm from. It's not an easy business model, and certainly you have to get a lot of loopholes with the hospitals and who's going to tech the games. It's not just dropping it off. See, we're done. There's maintaining the game. So what Daniel... Someone that really drives it, I think. I think that's kind of how it works a little bit here. Certain areas you know they got people around I love to get one in my community And Daniel will work with that community and kind of they get the contacts and see how this is possible And then obviously work with the pinball companies to get great deals. So, again, Project Pinball, I can't say enough about that. But, yeah, seeing that on an international level, I think there's a good model there for things, whether it's Netherlands or anywhere else. Yeah. And in general, I think one of the great things I love about pinball is the fact that whether you're five years old or you're 80 years old, you can play. You can compete. You can have fun. It's a social thing. It doesn't matter how much you make. It doesn't matter where you're from. If you like playing pinball with people, you're always good. The biggest challenge for pinball is always the accessibility, right? Because it is an extensive hobby, certainly to own a pinball machine. It's not something everyone can do. But some of the greatest players in the world don't have any pinball machines, but they're always at the arcades and pumping quarters and learning the different games, Which is also another nice thing, because let's say you own a couple of games. You started off falling in love with Getaway, then you had Indie, and that turned into other games. Well, unless you're rotating them a lot, you only kind of get those games. How do you get other experience? It's tournaments, it's arcades. So I'm so happy that also in the Netherlands, it's a slow process, but I think the fact that there are leagues and people that indeed maybe not have the resources to buy their own game can play different games there and have fun with other people liking pinball. So I think I really hope that that's, you know, resurgence in pinball being more in the public space. Yeah, keeps going on. There are people who listen to this podcast or even final round and they're like, oh, they're talking competitive pinball. But what you're missing is I'm talking here with Bart from the Netherlands, who I only see maybe twice, three times a year. Right. Maybe you can open or something like that. And we pick up like where we left off. We have this common bond of pinball. The fact that we're competing in the world championship, that's just a bonus, but it's the ability to meet so many people that are like-minded. But from very different backgrounds, and I really like that. John Youssi so many different people here, and it's great to meet so many different people through something you love together. I couldn't imagine before playing competitive pinball, I'm going to travel to California by myself. No, I don't know. But I know so many people here, not just at pinball, but in different communities. And it's like that everywhere I go. That's the beauty of this pinball and, in a sense, competition too. But then there's another side of it. And, yes, you're right, you can play between 5 and 80. But that 5 to 25 age, I think we need to cap those kids. I really do. They're just. I'm saying yes and no. I'm kidding. Oh, they're so good. They know the rules. So, you know, Johannes is also here. Yeah. You saw his game yesterday. Hold on a second here. By the time this airs, he could have won it all. He could be the back-to-back champ. I just played him in round four. Check the stats. I stuck it to Johannes. Really? I did. Wow, congrats. Yes, I did. So that means nothing. And it's also the kiss of death. But Johannes is here with his dad. I talked to him and asked him, when did he start out and how did he start out? And they came to their home, and this father told me that he was five years old when he started, and I think he was six, seven years old when he played his first tournament. So I have a three-year-old son, and I'm not trying to push him in any way, but it seems he's pushing me because for some time he didn't mind pinball, but the past three months he does. He loves pinball. Okay. I've been to the Netherlands, all right? I mean, I love that you're teaching him pinball, but if you aren't teaching that kid to ride a bike at three that kid's gonna be in trouble i mean i've never seen so many bikes in all my life yeah it's uh but you know i hope that his love for pinball he has now continues and that at some point we'll also be able to travel together see that yeah that's maybe maybe hold on a second maybe he'll be able to get john's you were trying to be the dad of the year there for a second i hope he loves it and maybe we can travel together you're looking for permission by bonding with your son to go to more pinball tournaments exactly i tried my kids uh they try we'll see we'll see if you like something else that's fine but um yeah i would be really uh if i can be like uh johannes and his dad right now here um i'd sign for that what if your son gets a hold of that tim sexton video watch that says dad pinball makes me sick competitions are not for me there's no way i don't want you doing it anymore we'd have a difficult discussion well son I got good news bad news good news is that you never see pinball again The bad news is I sending you off to boarding school I see you when you 19 You rethink life for a little bit, all right? Anyway, UK Open, are you going to make it to that? Definitely. I'm going to skip the EPC to be able to be at the UK Open. Oh, that's the week before, isn't it? It is. And the week before EPC is the Austrian Pinball Open. I was there last year with Johannes and with Paul Jungma. And we had such a blast that I really want to go there. and I cannot do three weekends in a row. So it was either EPC or UK Open. And I really liked UK Open. Niels doing an absolutely fantastic job there. Well, again, here at Belsitos, he certainly modeled what he sees and what he loves about Indisc. And here we are at IFPA 19. And now, back again, we have five majors. We mentioned Indisc. Yeah, unbelievable. Right here, Papa is back now. And Pinberg. And Pinberg. Pinberg's only going to grow. and of course the ETC, right? You were at the last Pemburg. I was. It was my first Pemburg and it was the last Pemburg, so I'm so happy that it's back. How did you do? I made it into A and I was just playing the big competitive tournaments for a year by then. I finished 90 something. That's great. Out of a thousand? Yeah. Pretty impressive. I was bummed out that I couldn't play the final rounds, but I could not complain. Why do people like that tournament so much? And really this World Championship is like it too. is you know when you start. So you've got some time off after the round, and there's not a lot of waiting. You can do things in between. Yeah, and it's all match playing. I mean, the card-based formats can be brutal and can also be very rewarding if you make it. But if I compare Indisc and Pinberg, my preference is still Pinberg. Helen de Haan Verbeek is somebody I got to know. I've seen her a couple of times at different events. Sadly, the Bulls and Balls in Fulgham, which is now gone. But maybe it'll come back. Koln, hold on a second. Could be another one in that great German area. I see her a lot. She's one of the best in the world and from your home country. Yeah, I see her a lot on tournaments, and she's a really animated player. That's what I really like about her. She's so active, and she's a very, very good competitor, definitely. In Canada, I can't name any, but there are jerks in pinball in the United States. I can list a few. Are there any in the Netherlands? And list them by name. Right here, Bart. Here we go. I'm not going to do that. He's kicking me in the shins. What does this mean? No, but in general, you know, everyone's different, but in general everyone is really friendly to each other, really wants to do it as a social thing to get. And, of course, some people are more competitive and sometimes have difficulty, you know, keeping their frustration to themselves. In general, when you talk to them outside of the game, they're all great. Is there a format of tournament you like best? I know you talked a little bit about match play, but... Yeah, I really like the Pimberg format. You know, the first round slaughter, and then you go more and more to the real Swiss. Yeah, I like it. And it's the same format here, so I really love this format. It's dangerous when you fly a little too close to the sun. The second I was popping off about beating Johannes, now I'm going to get clocked. I did really well the first few rounds, and then I met Keith, and oh, man. I had some terrible games. Do you want to know how to beat Keith? Go watch the UK Open Classics 2 finals last year. You'll see him. Let me guess. He was beaten by a certain someone called... I have no idea, Bart. I can't remember who was the winner. I just know Keith was a broken man. Anyway, it's good to see you, my friend, and thanks very much for doing this. Definitely. You're welcome. Good to see you again. And for all your support, too, Bart. It means a lot. Sure. Yeah, yeah. I love Fimball, and I like other people to love it, too, so I try to promote it wherever I can, and I know you do the same, so thanks for that. I appreciate it. Yeah, but I'm paid dearly to do that. No, I can't. I wish. All right, Bart, all the best. Thanks, you too. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com. We're on Twitter, X, Instagram, at pinballprofile. We've got a great Facebook group as well. You can email pinballprofile at gmail.com. And if you'd like to show your support, don't worry, the show will always be free. It is patreon.com slash pinballprofile. Thank you to Colin M., to Derek K., Derek A., Sean I., and so many others that are very, very generous. Really appreciate it. All right, let's see how Bart does from the Netherlands here on the world stage at IFPA 19. I'm Jeff Teoles.