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Episode 197 - Orbclectic Gamers Podcast

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 16m·analyzed·Jul 9, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Haggis Centaur Revisited pricing shock and critique of excessive luxury add-ons justify concern.

Summary

Tony and Dennis discuss recent pinball industry developments, focusing on Pinball Brothers' Queen price reduction ($8,995, down $300) and Haggis Pinball announcement of Centaur Revisited with two tiers: Beast Edition ($10k USD, 250 units) and Orblivion Edition ($16.7k USD, 50 units). They critique the aggressive pricing, excessive add-ons (motorcycle helmet, vinyl album, plasma topper, custom callouts), colorization of the original black-and-white artwork, and compare unfavorably to Chicago Gaming's pricing strategy.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Brothers lowered Queen Champion Edition price from $9,295 to $8,995 ($300 reduction) because sales were not as robust as expected

    medium confidence · Tony and Dennis speculate on the motivation; Dennis states 'there is no earthly reason that they would reduce it unless their sales were lighter than expected' and Tony agrees this is likely.

  • Haggis Centaur Revisited Beast Edition (250 units) is priced at $15,000 AUD (~$10,000 USD), and Orblivion Edition (50 units) at $25,000 AUD (~$16,700 USD)

    high confidence · Dennis provides official pricing from announcement article and currency conversion from the night before.

  • Fathom Revisited Mermaid Edition (LE) was 11,500 AUD, significantly less than Centaur Beast Edition at 15,000 AUD (3,500 AUD difference)

    high confidence · Dennis cites Pinside data on Fathom pricing for comparison.

  • Centaur Revisited Orblivion Edition is potentially the most expensive regularly-traded game on the market at $16,700 USD (50 units only)

    medium confidence · Dennis states 'to my knowledge the most expensive game on the market' for the 50-unit tier, noting Godfather CE at $12k as prior high-end reference.

  • Centaur has been colorized in both Beast and Orblivion editions, departing from the original black-and-white with red accents aesthetic

    high confidence · Dennis watched trailer and reviewed photos; describes colorization as a 'pretty big mistake' and references Family Guy's Ted Turner 'colorizing the moon' bit as analogy.

  • Haggis learned from Fathom Revisited's misstep by offering both original and 2.0 code in all Centaur Revisited tiers, avoiding the Classic/LE code exclusivity backlash

    high confidence · Dennis notes Haggis eliminated Classic Edition tier and ensures both code versions available in Beast and Orblivion to avoid repeat of Classic Edition perception problem.

  • The Orblivion Edition includes motorcycle helmet, leather jacket, vinyl album (single song), interactive plasma topper, custom callouts, and additional multiball

    high confidence · Dennis reads directly from Nap Arcade article listing Orblivion exclusive add-ons.

Notable Quotes

  • “There is no earthly reason that they would reduce it unless their sales were lighter than expected and they were hoping to have the reduction bounce sales up.”

    Dennis @ ~03:20 — Frames Queen price cut as indicator of weak sales, not strategic pricing or currency benefit.

  • “Anything under ten thousand at this point is kind of like right in the I don't want to say bargain but let's just say it's in the realm of consideration for a lot of people.”

    Tony @ ~04:45 — Reflects market psychology around $10k psychological threshold in pinball pricing.

  • “The most iconic thing about Centaur is probably the art. In fact, I'm not going to say probably. I'm going to [be definitive because] we have a podcast. It is the art.”

    Dennis @ ~13:30 — Establishes that Centaur's primary value proposition is aesthetic, not gameplay; colorization undercuts core appeal.

  • “They're not going to make you feel like a pinball rock star. They're going to make you feel like something. I can guarantee you that, but it ain't a rock star.”

    Tony @ ~15:45 — Sharp critique of motorcycle helmet/leather jacket marketing copy as tone-deaf.

  • “They have crammed in a whole bunch of additions that don't really add the value that they think they do. It just feels like we're throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping that it'll stick.”

    Dennis @ ~16:30 — Articulates core criticism: excessive add-ons masking weak value proposition for extreme pricing.

  • “This is like them doing Supersonic Revisited and the Sonic Oblivion Edition came with a parachute. I realize I'm being fair here.”

    Tony @ ~18:50 — Absurdist analogy effectively mocking inclusion of thematically-disconnected luxury items.

  • “With Fathom Revisited you had two things: quite possibly the greatest art of its era combined with an actually fun game. With Centaur you've got the art's good but the game's not great.”

    Dennis @ ~22:30 — Contrasts Centaur Revisited to Fathom to argue original Centaur doesn't justify ultra-premium remake status.

Entities

Pinball BrotherscompanyHaggis PinballcompanyCentaur RevisitedgameQueengameFathom RevisitedgameDennispersonTonyperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Extreme pricing on Centaur Revisited ($10k-$16.7k for remake) raises sustainability concerns about market capacity and psychological thresholds for consumer adoption.

    medium · Tony notes $10k threshold psychology: 'There are too many people that remember the joke 10,000 by Christmas... not willing to accept that we're okay with these now being small cars.' Dennis implies sales impact uncertain despite confident Haggis positioning.

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Online criticism of Centaur Revisited centers on pricing (especially Orblivion tier), colorization decision, and excessive bundled add-ons with questionable value.

    high · Dennis: 'most of the online criticism that i've seen about this game' focuses on these three issues. Both hosts validate criticisms as substantive and logical.

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Haggis pricing strategy (Beast/Orblivion tiers) contrasts unfavorably with Chicago Gaming's value-perception approach on Cactus Canyon, despite shared remake positioning.

    medium · Dennis: 'this is not a bargain, which is something their quote-unquote remake competitor, Chicago Gaming, is seen as.' Cactus Canyon LEs criticized as 'too cheap' indicating customer preference for value.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Haggis colorized Centaur's iconic black-and-white artwork in Centaur Revisited, departing from 40-year original aesthetic; hosts characterize as fundamental creative misstep.

    high · Dennis watched trailer, confirmed colorization in both tiers. Both hosts agree colorization undermines 'the most iconic thing about Centaur is probably the art' and use Ted Turner 'colorizing the moon' analogy to mock decision.

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.229

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, July 9th. This is episode 197. I am Tony. I am Dennis. Welcome. Yes. Well, no, I should welcome you. You are in my home, in my living room. I feel our sound quality has gotten, at least editing-wise, it's so much easier down here now because I'm not stripping out all the echo. Going to this with the thanks and power of the Patreon supporters where we have the nicer sound system really helped a lot. But there were still some issues where I think my sound was bouncing off of a glass door that you were sitting in front of, and then it would pick up on your mic. And so sometimes I would have to go back through and strip out my audio because if I turned your gain so far down, the listeners really want to know this. I turn your gain so far down, I could prevent picking up the echo. But then if you weren't right up at the mic, you would also drop out and I'd have to manually audio boost you at points, which is very frustrating. So this has gone a lot better the last couple of times where we've recorded down here. But speaking of Patreon, we do have a new Patreon member. So I want to thank Bradley B., who joined us as our basic support level. Welcome. We very much appreciate it. And if you want to support us on Patreon, it's available as low as a dollar a month. And there is a link in the episode description. So just click on the link, and it'll take you right there. Last couple of weeks, Tony, what's been going on?
1:39
Well, it's award season for my job. Yay! Congratulations. Well, no, I'm on the committee that gives the awards out. Are you going to give yourself an award? No, I actually, my boss was starting to work on the paperwork to put in for the awards. And I just flat told her, just don't worry about it because I won't accept the paperwork in because as long as I am sitting on the committee that makes the decisions for the awards, I won't even allow us to be eligible for them because I don't feel it's right. So it's not always been that way. That's not an actual rule. You could just recuse yourself.
2:22
Half of the committee is people from our group. Oh, okay. Yeah, that does make it tough. We'd have to recuse almost everybody, and it's just easier to just not accept it. So she was fine with that. Otherwise, I think I mentioned several episodes ago that I had picked up a Humble Bundle that had like the 60 core original Battletech novels in it. And I am working my way through that. I am up to novel six. I've made it as far as novel six. And I'm just continuing to burn through that. And it's just so enjoyable because one of these novels that I've already just finished, I was so excited when I got to it and was getting to it because it has one of my favorite moments in fiction ever is in it. And when I got it, I'm like, oh, okay. Hopefully when I get to that point, it still hits and it's just as good. It did. It was so good. It's such a cinematic moment in writing that I would just love to see just like that little scene or those like two chapters in like animated or just because they're just so perfectly, beautifully done. They wouldn't work in animation because you don't have any of the background story or anything. I just, it's so cinematically done. It's just so perfect. And that's one of my favorite moments in fiction that I've ever read. And it's still hit. It's just still hit so good. It was so enjoyable. So I was happy to go through that. And I'm still pushing through. So.

  • “This is not a bargain, which is something their quote-unquote remake competitor, Chicago Gaming, is seen as.”

    Dennis @ ~28:00 — Positions Haggis pricing unfavorably against CGC's Cactus Canyon value-perception strategy.

  • “Centaur doesn't have the bill of materials all that high. It's a single-level design with a few drop targets and some captive balls.”

    Dennis @ ~20:15 — Technical analysis: mechanical complexity of Centaur doesn't justify price premium vs. Godfather.

  • “The whole I mean I just imagine I'm sitting there... Crikey, we got charged with 25,000, what do we do? What would Ted Turner do? Let's colorize this. That'll solve all our problems.”

    Tony @ ~19:45 — Satirical summary of Haggis decision-making process around colorization as problem-solver.

    • Chicago Gaming Company
    company
    Cactus Canyongame
    Godfathergame
    Celtsgame
    Bradley B.person
    Nap Arcadeorganization
    Flipping Out Pinballcompany

    design_philosophy: Centaur Revisited prioritizes cosmetic/luxury elements over addressing core gameplay/mechanical depth issues, suggesting design philosophy misalignment with game's actual strengths (art/callouts).

    medium · Dennis emphasizes 'Centaur's art package is primary draw, not mechanics.' Despite acknowledging game is 'actually a pretty good player,' hosts note no evidence of substantial gameplay improvements justifying $10k+ investment.

  • $

    market_signal: Haggis marketing emphasizes tangential add-ons (motorcycle gear, vinyl) rather than substantive gameplay/code improvements as justification for extreme pricing.

    medium · Dennis describes approach as 'throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping that it'll stick' in desperation to justify cost. Tony's parachute/Supersonic analogy highlights absurdity of theme mismatch.

  • $

    market_signal: Centaur Revisited Beast Edition ($10k USD) and Orblivion Edition ($16.7k USD) represents extreme premium pricing tier for 1981 single-level game with limited mechanical complexity.

    high · Dennis notes Beast is significantly more expensive than Fathom Revisited Mermaid ($7.5k USD) despite simpler playfield. Tony expresses shock: 'the cost of this is insane... the cheap version is what I thought the most expensive version would cost.'

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball Brothers reduced Queen Champion Edition by $300 to $8,995, indicating weaker-than-expected sales demand despite boutique positioning.

    medium · Dennis: 'there is no earthly reason that they would reduce it unless their sales were lighter than expected.' Tony concurs this likely reflects need to boost sales volume rather than profitability.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Orblivion Edition bundles thematically-disconnected luxury items (motorcycle helmet, leather jacket, plasma topper, vinyl album) attempting to justify $16.7k price point.

    high · Dennis reads Nap Arcade specs. Tony critiques marketing copy ('not going to make you feel like a pinball rock star') and argues items lack perceived value alignment.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Haggis resolved Fathom Revisited Classic/LE code tiering controversy by including 2.0 code in all Centaur Revisited tiers, eliminating exclusivity frustration.

    high · Dennis: 'they've learned their lesson Tony from Fathom' and notes both Beast and Orblivion include 'both the original code and the 2.0 revisited code' to avoid repeat backlash.

    • 3:58
    Well, speaking of stories, no one wrote into the podcast explaining where the tiger growls comes from. So they all lose. So lucky. They are lucky. I mean, this is for the best, but thus the offer for that. I think I said they could pick a topic for us. Well, the time's up. I'm not allowing people to just go find it and read it. So that window has closed to you. And it is for the best. Be glad you never smelled the fresh air of the tiger growling. And speaking of books, I am about halfway through Chapter House Dune now. I've only chipped away at it a little bit. I had a work conference last week. I did take Dune with me. I did not I did read actually the first night I was able to read for about an hour but which is probably where I made most of that progress and then other than that gaming wise I have continued to plug away at puzzle quest 3 so I've I made more progress with that I tried out some of the other modes and stuff they're adding more story content to it as well and I'm not all the way through the existing story content so because it's just kind of working your way down yeah some of the I feel that and it's been so long since I played like the original puzzle quest but I feel like the fights take a long time if I'm not overpowered for them. So I've done things like PvP battles and skirmishes and single little dungeon stuff, mostly because it's gotten me more gear, which allows me to raise my, besides my character level, gear level makes a huge difference to your spec. And the story is, whatever the gear is, it doesn't scale. So you can OP your way through it. So I found that if I'm like 200 gear points, as I'll call it, ahead of the story, it's easy and pretty quick. But if I'm about equal, it could be like 10 minutes to get through a thing. Unacceptable having to struggle for a fight. Yes. I don't believe in it. I'd be okay with it struggling, but I don't want it to turn into like this. Like Magic the Gathering game shouldn't take like 30 minutes, nor should this. It should be fast. is my idea. So anyway, so that's what I've been doing. But what the audience wants us to do is talk about pinball and video games. And I would like to, and I don't think this is going to be a particularly meaty episode. Actually, I know it's not because I've already looked at all of our show notes, but I don't have a lot for pinball, but I do think we have a couple, well, one in particular interesting discussion point. But before that, I do want to open with a company we normally wouldn't open with, and that's Pinball Brothers. so pinball brothers which is the company that kind of uh rose from the ashes of highway pinball in terms of making alien pinball they have a another game that they are getting ready to readily uh ship out and that's queen pinball you and i played queen at we did texas and uh remind the listeners what'd you think of queen it was all right that was sort of my overall take too of the of the The games we kind of reviewed in the – and go back, folks, and listen to our 2023 TPF episode if you want to know our detailed thoughts. I think I kind of – like where I had my top half games and bottom half, I think Queen was my start and my bottom half was where it came from. Yeah, I had it right in the middle. It was kind of right in the middle. It was like the dividing line between good and bad. It was where I started to really be able to point to certain things I didn't care much for, though overall it shot fairly well. Yeah. Excuse me. So anyway, they've lowered the price of the game.
    7:38
    I'm kind of shocked because nobody lowers the price of anything anymore. Yes, that was what and this will feed into something in a moment. But that was what was so interesting. So for those that don't know, the champion edition of the game has been reduced. It's now $8,995. So it's just under $9,000, but it is a $300 price reduction from what they originally advertised that it was going to be sold at. And they're getting ready to produce that version of the game. Why do you think they did it? Did they lose a topper? I'm not aware of any change to the trim. In that case, they weren't getting sales. there is no earthly reason that they would reduce it unless their sales were lighter than expected and they were hoping to have the reduction bounce sales up i wondered if perhaps there was a change in because they're european company if there was a change in exchange rate that may have been like well you know we're going to get plenty as it is so we're going to again though that seems weird why would they let that affect why they wouldn't just allow that to be an added profit But so I would lean in your camp that sales are not as robust as they wanted. The other option would be that they need the capital and they thought this might be able to get them more sales. Right. Instead of going the route of I'm going to increase the price because I know I'm not selling as many. I'm going to increase the price. They're going the whole let's reduce the price but sell more. Yes. um overall i think this is a i i would describe it as a nice touch i think 300 is not enough to be impactful in a way that i would it's don't get me wrong it's significant money had it been at least 500 though i think people would have paid more attention to it right but it has people talking about it and that is a game that we've not talked about since tpf that's true uh the thing is this at least this version being at nine thousand dollars this is not this is not an inexpensive game so i mean it's not it's definitely not at the upper end anything under ten thousand at this point is kind of like right in in the i don't want to say i don't want to say bargain but let's just say um that it's in the realm of consideration for a lot of people whereas once you cross that ten thousand dollar threshold a lot of people are kind of like just outright ruled out like We don't do 10. Like, there are too many people that remember the joke 10,000 by Christmas. Yeah. And are not willing to accept that we're okay with these now being small cars.
    10:24
    But that being said, the game doesn't have, like, a high degree of buzz. So I just, like, if you need the sales, I don't know if 300 is enough. But maybe. It could. And, again, it will generate some buzz. Yes. Some people will talk about it. I mean. Some people are like, well, it's a little too expensive with it being maybe just a bare scratch under that 9,000 line. There are people out there, though, that probably have a hard that have said, I won't pay more than $9,000 for something. Sure, and that may be enough. And we do have to bear in mind, I mean, what is the current MSRP on a pro? I think it's like seven. So it's not, again, it's a couple thousand. was within, it's within grasping range for a lot of people that might have been like, alright, back in the day I had to consider it a premium. Premiums have gone up as well through Stern, but maybe this is kind of where that was and I'd be okay at this price for this game, which, I mean, when you look at it, it does look like it's got more going on the surface than a lot of pro models Sterns do. So, anyway, interesting. I'll look forward to seeing if this strategy pays dividends. I don't think it hurts them One of the things which – and I won't belabor it because this is our pinball and video game podcast, not a wristwatch podcast. But one of the things you know as a watch collector and something I've covered in that content creation is we see – because we've been seeing the same thing there, that the prices keep going up with inflation and everything else. A lot of the manufacturers are pushing their prices up, and those companies generally do not cut prices. I actually read about a time where one of the major brands did, and it was extremely damaging to their reputation. because this was before I was into the hobby. But the reason for it is you immediately devalued the watches that all these other people that are – it was Richemont, which controls some of the biggest brands like Jaeger-Lacoultre and stuff. So they – back in like 2012-ish or sometime – maybe 2008, sometime like around or after the recession, they cut their prices by a few percentage points, and it just alienated like everyone who had gone and bought retail because all of a sudden the watch was worth less. but I don't think that's the case here because pinball is not, despite the pricing, it's not a luxury product. So I don't think it operates in the same realm, especially if what you said is right, Tony, and they don't have very many sales. And if everyone who's already bought, if they haven't gotten this game yet in particular, gets honored the new price point, they won't have this. This won't hurt pinball. But that would be the important part, is if the people who've already bought in.
    13:01
    Yeah, I think they'll be fine. I think this is going to, because I think this only impacts this model, which they're getting ready to build, is my understanding. But let's move on to another company with another game that they're getting ready to build. In fact, they just announced it, and this would be Haggis Pinball.
    13:19
    Haggis Pinball is known for two games currently. Their first game, Celts, which I don't remember how many they made. Was it in the neighborhood of 100? At one point, I thought I heard 80-ish, and then I thought I heard 150-ish. So somewhere in that range. And then Fathom Revisited, which, for those who don't recall, there were two iterations. There was a Classic Edition and the Limited Edition. I believe the Limited Edition was capped at $250. There was no cap on the Classic. It was a you had to order by a certain deadline, and you'd be able to get the Classic Edition. And then in the wake of TPF this year, where we both finally got to play both Kelts and Fathom Revisited, which recap of your thoughts on those games? I vaguely remember Kelts so it couldn't have been great Fathom Revisited was fun but Fathom's a fun game yes we played a game of Kelts maybe two I played it the day before as well Kelts didn't work for me game worked I didn't enjoy it Fathom I liked and the 2.0 code was clever I thought there were some clever twists that were applied to it after TPF and we did cover this in a subsequent episode I don't remember which number them they went ahead they being haggis and they made a middle tier option because by the time a tpf fathom was done like it was sold out because they'd already passed all their deadlines they'd sold all of the le's and they i had heard they'd sold barely any classics because everyone wanted the fancier trim and right you didn't get the 2.0 code with a classic so they kind of middle tiered where they released an option where you could like upgrade or get, or you could do a new order and get like a classic plus. I don't remember what they called it. And basically get the 2.0 code without all of the same trim stuff. Which makes sense. Which they should have done from the get go. Yes, they should have. But there was some blowback amongst hobbyists, some hobbyists, because Haggis had said when they released the LE, that was the only way to get the 2.0 code. And then it wasn't. So I think the rep took a little bit of a hit.
    15:30
    And now we have Kelts – excuse me. Kelts Revisited. No, I'm afraid – You're already remaking Kelts. I'm not sure Kelts is going to reach the classic status of a class of 81 ballet game.
    15:42
    So Centaur. Centaur Revisited. There was a teaser trailer between our last episode and this episode which had hinted at it either being Centaur or 8-Ball Deluxe. It was Centaur. I do have a link in the show notes to an article NAP Arcade has on the website so you can read more about this and watch the trailer if you want there are two versions but there's no classic version this time they've learned their lesson Tony from Fathom there is a Beast Edition which is like the old LE Edition it's limited to 250 units it is priced at 15,000 Australian dollars which when I checked last night that in US dollars is just a tad over $10,000. And then they have what they call the Orblivion. You spell orb. You got to spell orb, Tony. Spell orb. They have the Orblivion edition, which is limited to 50, and it's priced at $25,000 Australian dollars, which is about $16,700 US dollars at current exchange rates.
    16:45
    The differences are the Orblivion edition has the topper, has some custom call-out options. You can have custom call-outs for your game. You get an additional multiball, kind of like how Tron LE did with the Daft Punk multiball, would be my analogy. And it has some other stuff too, like I think there's like an album with music that you get like on vinyl or something and things like that. I didn't list them all out. Go read the Nap Arcade article if you want to know. Both versions will have both the original code and the 2.0 revisited code. now most of the online criticism that i've seen about this game is well the first thing is the oblivion edition and this is an option you can go either way but they have did you ever see the old family guy episode where it where it clips to ted turner is one of the cutaways that family you know the cutaway gang family guy does and there's one thing where it clips to ted turner and it just shows him at a microphone and goes, I've colorized the moon.
    17:53
    Because if you might remember, it's like Turner classic movies. He used to colorize all these classic movies. It's the thing he was into. And so they colorized Centaur, which is black and white art with some red accents. It looked like in both versions to me, again, And maybe some of this is the RGB lighting, but it looked like they've added additional color to the plastics in both versions. It's sure how it looked in the pictures. But because I did watch the trailer. But in the on the Oblivion edition, you can ask for the the more black and white play field. But they have a colorized version of the play field. And I'm going to agree with the criticism. I think that was a pretty big mistake.
    18:44
    Yeah. No, that was definitely... I don't even know why they invested time in doing that. I mean, it's one of those games where I think they should have just left that, just left all of that as it was.
    18:56
    The most iconic thing about Centaur is probably the art In fact I not going to say probably I going to Because we have a podcast It is the art It not the gameplay Oh no It the art Fathom has better gameplay than Centaur Centaur, it's the art. And then I would say it's the call-outs after that.
    19:14
    I would agree with you. So, anyway, there's been a lot of debate on that. Your thoughts. Do you have other thoughts about that? Let's explore, because this is our main topic for the day. my thoughts open up with the fact that when I saw this, the very first thing I did was open up a messenger and send Dennis a message that opened with WTF. I don't think you just sent it to me either, but maybe you did. Uh, yeah, no, I think it might've gone to multiple people, but just because this game is too expensive. There is the, the cost of this is insane. It is like the cheap, the, The beast mode version is what I thought the most expensive version would cost of this game. When I first started going through stuff until prices appeared. So I was in shock at the cost of this game. But then I started getting into everything else. I do want, real quick, from the Nap Arcade article, looking at the extra special stuff from the Oblivion edition.
    20:21
    Underworld Queen. interactive plasma topper. Witness the mesmerizing presence of the underworld queen with an interactive plasma topper.
    20:30
    Yeah. We don't need this. It's just crazy. But the custom call-outs, like you said, but the thing that gets me, airbrushed motorcycle helmet and leather jacket. Embark on your pinball adventures in style with an airbrushed motorcycle helmet and a genuine leather jacket. These exclusive editions will make you feel like a true pinball rock star. No, man. They're not going to make you feel like a pinball rock star. They're going to make you feel like something. I can guarantee you that, but it ain't a rock star.
    21:09
    Now, you mentioned looking at the photos. Did you watch the trailer? No, I never watched it. I just read the article and looked at the pictures. Because there's a song. They have a custom song about the centaur, and I'm not sure that I like it.
    21:28
    I don't think it's a bad song, but it's such an 80s game. The idea that they made a rock song about centaur feels odd to me. Was it a power ballad? Oh, no. And I mean, this is not, don't worry. This is nothing like, like, it's not like, I'm sure there will be people that like this. But again, it's some of the decision making on what to revisit with revisiting Centaur. I just find I'm a little perplexed. Well, you point out – but colorizing the moon, doing a special song, which I mean is going to come on an album on the Oblivion edition, doing like the motorcycle helmet. And I mean why didn't it just come with a motorcycle while we're at it? That made you look like a real centaur who was half motorcycle. I guess we – I mean who knows what the price would have to be at that point. But, I mean, that was going to be my main focus area as well, what you led into here, which is the pricing on these games is extremely high. And I feel like, and this is my impression, obviously, I feel like they know that the price is really high. And so in desperation to justify it, they have crammed in a whole bunch of additions, add-ons. I don't mean additions as in with an E-D. I mean A-D-D-I-T-I-O-N. That don't, like they don't really add the value that they think they do. It just feels like we're throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping that it'll stick. But again, I mean, let's take you. You have a motorcycle. So you being interested possibly in a airbrushed motorcycle helmet and leather jacket might make sense. I'm not. I got that. You made that impression very clear to everyone who's listening. But like, I don't ride motorcycles, so I have no interest in a motorcycle helmet. To me, that's just a huge thing that's going to take up shelf space. Where am I going to display that? What about scooters? Where do you feel on scooters, Dennis? I mean, I'm not like a – I don't – outside of cycling, I don't do two-wheel transportation.
    23:57
    So I don't – I'm not offended by scooters, but stuff that I would wear on a scooter doesn't apply to me. But, I mean, you could have, like, this cool helmet and be on your Vespa with your leather jacket and your cool airbrushed custom centaur helmet with the custom My Little Centaur song playing off in your earbuds. My little centaur, my little centaur.
    24:23
    I'm Apocalypse Pony. War Pony. War Pony, yes. Oh, I love it. Here's my analogy. You remember the old, it was like a late 70s game, Supersonic. It was like themed around the, what was that jet that held 100 people that we used to- The Concorde. It's themed around the Concorde, if I remember right. It'd be like them doing Supersonic Revisited and the Sonic Oblivion Edition came with a parachute.
    24:54
    I realize I'm being fair here. It's like it came with a parachute. well but i'm not jumping out of the concord so i don't what am i going to do with a parachute is this going to take up space and you ask me well what do you feel about cessness doesn't change the fact that i don't need a parachute i don't parachute i don't need it so that's what i feel like like you know throwing that in i feel like the you probably saw in the article the orble comes with like a i don't know if it's vinyl or what yeah yeah it's like a vinyl album to me that feels like oh wait scott denisi did this thing with a cassette tape and then they did the thing with the black knight album you know sterned it so let's take that let's like let's wear like a little magpie and we're just grabbing little bits of glitter and throwing it into our edition so that you think it's worth 17 000 or 16 5 you know we're around it down 16 5 yeah but but the tna music is fire it's on my literal my playlist it plays at my in my office at work every day there was a logical reason for scott to do what he did with the album that doesn't mean that again doesn't mean we get to magpie it unless you think that your song is as good as scott's entire banger soundtrack which maybe it is i don't know are there i'm hoping there's more than just the one song i've heard it's a vinyl with just one song everything single everything else is bells and chimes so i mean that uh the the whole i mean i just imagine i'm sitting there like i don't have a good i don't have an australian impression so let me like crikey we got we're charged with 25 000 what do we do what would ted turner do Let's colorize this That'll solve all our problems Right? People like the cool water effect With Fathom So what can we do with Oblivion Colorize it Orblivion I don't understand So context wise So we've got the limited 250 version $10,000 game Okay that's not the highest price game on the market, but it's on the upper end. It is. It's five figures, and then... Is Centaur that hard to get a hold of in the first place? I mean, they are pretty beat up, so it would be hard to get a good one. But I don't think... I... And I don't know this to be true, but I'm going to go ahead and claim it. I think you could probably get a beater Centaur and get it fully restored and spend less. But you're not getting the 2.0 code So some of that, I don't remember.
    27:51
    I probably should have looked it up ahead of time. How much more of this, because it is more than what they charged for the Fathom games.
    27:57
    But the Oblivion Edition decided to do this Ultra High Lux Edition, which is more than the Ultra High Lux Godfather game, which is overpriced. Yes, very much so. It's deeply concerning. And here's the thing. Here's the fundamental that this is a victim of circumstance because they are doing remakes.
    28:19
    It has to be the Centaur layout. Godfather, despite me feeling that it is grossly overpriced, even at $12,000, has a lot more going on on top of that play field than Centaur can. Because Centaur was a desperation move on the part of Bally to get highly experimental before they totally cheaped out. But it's still, because of its era, a single-level design with a few drop targets and some captive balls. Like, it doesn't have a shooter guy to fight and all that. It's just, mechanically speaking, I believe Godfather is a more complicated... There's probably – well, I hate to do the whole coil count thing, but basically that's what I mean. It's like Centaur doesn't – like its bill of materials isn't all that high.
    29:14
    Now, part of the problem that Haggis has is Haggis is in Australia. Right. So obviously – and I'm not factoring in shipping. All we're doing is – and flipping out Zach's company, they're the U.S. distributor for Haggis. So I went to his website last night to look and see about the U.S. pricing. It just lists the Australian pricing. So ultimately, when you do the buy, it's going to just be a straight-up currency conversion.
    29:43
    So that's all I'm factoring right now, not any shipping or anything. I'm sure the shipping is going to be terrible. So just the straight-up exchange rate conversion. Now, we have a favorable exchange rate with Australia. It's still really bleak. so i'm just you're coming in with basically at least when it comes to the limit of 50 the most to my knowledge the most expensive game on the market not true for the 250 unit right currently i don't think there's anything regularly traded that's more than godfather ce but 10 plus thousand dollars for an 80s game yeah we don't know how good the code is this stuff's getting built next year well and the thing that gets me is that with fathom revisited you had two things you had what is quite possibly the greatest art of its era combined with an actually fun game where with centaur you've got the art's good but the game's not great it's okay yeah uh i actually for me centaur is all about the art package sure i i think the art i mean the art is why people want to collect it i personally have felt historically i'm only i played centaur a little bit um i like it uh like but it's very straightforward and doesn't have the creativity of fathom right the outlaying in lanes and stuff that fathom's got going on and i just think the geometry is less enjoyable on centaur but i do think it actually is a pretty good player for the era but it was also never a game i would have fathomed pun intended to to spend five figures on right no it is a game that makes sense to me for a remake it does not make sense for a high-end premium remake right right and that's this feels like have you ever seen those cars where they sell the car kit so you can change your old little sedan so it looks like some like modernized version of like a 40s roll rolls royce no i'm not familiar with that that's what this kind of feels like to me it feels like a a a putting just trying to fancify something that doesn't necessarily need it okay doing a quick google search according to pin side the mermaid edition which was the le version of fathom revisited was 11 500 australian so it was significantly less than the beast edition is which is the lower tier version wow of centaur wow like it's 3500 australian less so okay that's shocking because i actually thought when fathom revisited was announced the mermaid edition was was especially given it was being built in australia i thought it was pretty fairly priced given they were going to put in new code and they had the rightness i mean it was a lot more than what you could probably have secured a nice version of the old version but you got you got benefits that i could see the argument for this at this price point i i really i i'm not going to go out and say like they're not going to sell out or anything like that because This is pinball, and there are plenty of people that this is fine. They'll be like, this is fine. But this is not – definitely not a bargain, which is something their quote-unquote remake competitor, Chicago Gaming, is seen as. Right. Because Chicago Gaming – remember when Cactus came out, people – if there was any criticism, it was the LEs were too cheap. People were like, this is like a no-brainer buy for people to get the LE. Yeah. Granted, they're still waiting, but so are most of the Fathom people. Valid point. I mean – Maybe it's not most of them at this stage. I think their plan is to finish getting Fathom built out this year.
    33:48
    I guess kind of to conclude, separate from that, Haggis is in a really weird boat to me right now, which I think is interesting. And that's because I feel like they have squandered a lot of goodwill when they started at such a high place. I'm not even talking about the pricing. I mean the long, repeated delays, which aren't all their fault, I'm sure, regarding Fathom, for example. But also it was a company that when they were first doing – like when they were doing Kelts, their big claim to fame was just how transparent they were. Lots of constant videos, video updates, the owner going out there and explaining what's going on, footage from the facility or just talking. People felt like they really understood. And then when Fathom wasn't coming out, they got really, really quiet. And it's not unusual compared to other companies, but it was unusual compared to what they were doing. And they had really, I think, and I'd have to go back and research it, my recollection, right or wrong, was they had promoted themselves as being highly transparent, and then they took that away. And then post-TPF, while I understand it from business decisions, they decided to, and again, other companies have done this, break their word because they wanted more money, which I don't blame them for, and be like, we've got to get the 2.0 code into the – because people finally got to play it, and they're like, the 2.0 code was good. Yeah. So they were willing to buy it. Which is why people like me sit there from our ivory towers of non-manufacturing and go, why did you ever do a classic edition without the code in the first place?
    35:27
    I thought it was a no-brainer given how much money you were asking that you want to have an option to sell the code. That you said no because you wanted to sell mermaids. That was the ship you built. And now it's like, well, we'll build a new ship. and again others have done this stern with uh upping the the limited uh the sle count on batman was a case in point it was originally a lower number and then they actually they've done that with other le's too where they've been like it's 500 oh sorry we meant 750 le's really wow well amazing what amazing math is hard huh you must be a you must be a water plant engineer mess up the map like that um so this doesn't help with that because i think people are going to look at this and go this is an inflation this is a gouge had the had the oblivion edition been the 15 000 australian i don't think people would have batted an eye right but to go ahead and say no no no that one's 10 000 australian more than the other game, which is already, what, 3,500 more than the Fathom Revisited. And a lot of people are still waiting for their Fathoms.
    36:40
    That's just a perception thing. I think this is very expensive for what this is. And I think most of the add-ons either make zero sense from most owners. Like, most people aren't really going to care about those goodies. So the attempt to inject value by putting things in that aren't even on the game isn't going to work. It almost feels like those Kickstarters where they just keep adding to keep the money rolling up. They just keep adding more stuff in. Like stretch goals. Yeah. But the stretch goals are, in this instance, it's just like peripheral stuff. And where they've made decisions, like, what can we do that's different? Let's colorize the moon. On Centaur, no. No. Now, if Centaur had like an awful art package, you'd be like, you know what? Like if Centaur was hoops from Gottlieb, and they'd be like, you know what? Other than the sun blowing wind on the trans light, the rest of this art package is pretty much garbage tier. Like half the basketball players didn't even tie their shoes. They're going to trip and die. So let's go in and let's do the tied shoes edition where we actually go in and we just tie all their shoes. Or if you were to remake Jurassic Park Data East and you're going to fix Nedry's hand. so he's not going to have that weird hand. Why would you do that though? We're going to call it that. I would just draw a hook on it. He got a little hook hand Or instead of the hand maybe just put in the Barbasol can that he to be you know from the movie Yeah just cut like as a sticker Just put a little sticker Just cover that weird old hand. A little weird old hand. Yeah, but Centaur's Art's iconic.
    38:22
    To have the audacity to colorize it is, reminds me of, you know, as we go with Eclectic Movie Podcast. And I never watched this because I couldn't even believe they did it. And the reviews, of course, were scathing when they did the shot for shot remake of Psycho. Why would I not just watch Psycho? Why do I want a shot for shot remake? What are you doing? It's like, look at this. It's not high art to just copy someone. That's not a homage. That's copying. I never understood that. I never, ever understood that. It was so weird. And this is weird, too, to me. we're going to take this iconic art package I get that they'll say you don't have to take it thank you, that's smart that you'll let me have a more traditional looking play field it's, let's go back to Jurassic Park it's, you only asked yourself if you could without thinking about if you should anyway, this is a miss for me, I have absolutely zero interest in this remake, which is unfortunate because I actually like, like Fathom revisited Mermaid Edition, I wouldn't mind owning that game. I'm not going to go out and buy it, but I wouldn't mind owning that game. This,
    39:38
    I mean, I guess the Beast Edition would be okay, but the price that it's at is above what I think the game... I just don't think the 2.0 code can raise it to that level for me. And so without that... I think there's other games at that price point that you would rather have. And most of the other incentives, as silly as I find them, they're with the Oblivion Edition anyway, so it's kind of moot. because they're only going to sell 50 of those. And I'm not spending $16,500 on a 1980s game. But you get an album. You get vinyl and a jacket. I don't even have a record player.
    40:15
    And custom call-outs so they say your name. That's something that they kind of did with a screen with Kelts. Again, another low-effort add-on. Like it's well, I'm going to use I'll use myself as a low effort example. So, again, with my watch YouTube, I finally added a discord last night. You got an invite. Yes. I need an administrator to help run the discord. All right. Well, because I'm like, I charge a whole ninety nine cents a month. That's one penny less than this podcast is Patreon. I got to give them something. But what did I do before that? Priority reply to comments. Wow. What a what an effort. May everyone I think who was doing it knew that they're just being supportive to give me ninety nine cents a month. But priority reply to comments is not like a lift or emojis. Other than initially creating the emoji, it wasn't much work. How long does it take me to make an emoji? Ten minutes? It doesn't take very long. But it is kind of nice because it's not like modding your live streams is a problem. Right, right. Because it's like you have a nice little community. But the difference is I didn't charge an additional $6,000 for it. You need to have two tiers. You need to have a $0.99 tier and a $6,000 tier.
    41:41
    I'll call it the Orblex edition. People, $6,000 a month, they'll be like, you're going to send me a Rolex. I'll be like, yeah, after six months, you can have an Oyster Perpetual. Yeah.
    41:56
    31 millimeter. Anyway, there's only one more thing for us to cover in the pinball segment, Tony, and that is Rumor Corner.
    42:22
    Is that right, Tony? Yeah. Okay, so for today's rumors, I have... I'm already going to say, I'm not sure this is going to rumor-tane you. I don't think this is... Compared to last week's with the Harry Potter thing, that one was huge. Oh, I've still got some chats with people going on and talking about Harry Potter stuff. Guys and gals, listeners and... Some of it's in the Discord, in our Discord. In fact, I think it might have been one of the Discord posters who came in. And our Discord doesn't require 99 cents or anything. There's a link in our show notes in the video. Sorry. In the audio. You can click and join the Discord through that. I have a link there, a permanent link. I think it was there. Someone went in and basically, this is the paraphrase, says, Dennis, I can't wait for you to be so wrong and Harry Potter to be so awesome and you be so sad that this Harry Potter is so awesome and everything you've said in this rumor is a dirty, filthy, nasty lie. To which I would say, rumor corner is never wrong. So it doesn't matter. Even when Rumor Corner is wrong, it's not wrong. That's the power of Rumor Corner. 60% of the time, it's right 100% of the time. Rumor Corner acknowledges, except everyone listening, except that Rumor Corner is just a pile of falseness. And therein lies the truth of it. Hence, victory is always obtained. Also, we wouldn't be sad if, well, let me not speak for you. I wouldn't be sad if Harry Potter was amazing. I just don't hold out hope. I don't care. I don't care if it's amazing or not. I don't. Just like I don't really care that Godzilla ended up being the greatest game ever made. It's cool that it is. I bought it because it is. Yeah. It is. But if Godzilla had been awful and they had done That's a Lot of Fish, I've been like, that was bad and move on. I don't have the same attachment to nostalgia that some people do with that stuff. Like there's a, there's a rumor that I, again, I think, I think nap arcade is an article. I don't have a link in the show notes because I'm only going to talk about it, but there's a rumor that, uh, that Stern has masters of the universe. I had He-Man toys. My dog chewed up one. I had to get a second He-Man. I played with He-Man toys. I don't care if the game is good or not good. Yeah. I hope, I mean, I mean, that would be, I like pinball to be good because it's going to be on location and I'm going to want to play it and I don't want to have to, I don't want it to be like guns and roses or Led Zeppelin where when I get the game in the draw, I'm like, yeah, yeah. Well, at least Led Zeppelin was going to be over quickly. With Guns N' Roses, I would really be like, I never actually thought forfeit. I always, with Rob Zombie, I did. With Guns N' Roses, I was like, please break, please break, please break. And half the time it would. So we'd be okay. There are definitely certain games that in a tournament situation, I'll drain and just be like, darn, as I walk away. They're like, ball save, ball save. And I'll just keep walking. Yeah, this is how it is. That's probably why we're not in the top 100, and we're just sad little players. Yes, that's what it is. It's really just that we don't try hard enough. Yes. We're the opposite of our try-hards. We're the not try-hards. We are the try-lasses. I'm just there for food and social interaction.
    45:33
    Yeah, no, I notice I actually get sloppier with my play. If it's like 8.30 at night now, and I'm like, I haven't eaten yet, I'm like, I don't really want to continue. But I don't want to look like I'm throwing either. So I kind of try a little less hard, maybe get a little sloppier with the shots. I think we need to rechange that plan so we eat first. Yeah, the problem is because the tournaments start – everyone cares about this. The tournaments start at 5, so that basically means we have to eat at 4.
    46:02
    You have to factor in when you're going to get the food to. You can't cut it too close. So it's like it just becomes so early. I'm just like annoyed. I'm annoyed. Let's see. Lunch is between breakfast and lunch. It is. Brunch is between breakfast and lunch. What's between? Linner. Linner? Yeah, there's linner. I guess technically it wouldn't be like high tea. Would it count to have tacos for high tea? We're not British, so I don't know if that counts. I don't know. Look, here's my – and I know a lot of tournament people completely disagree, and that's fine. They're hardcore, awesome, top 100 people, and everyone gets to have their own view. I do not believe that a regular, like a monthly, pinball tournament should run longer than watching a theatrical version. And I'll be generous. Extended edition Lord of the Rings movie. I should be done with a tournament by the time Fellowship ends.
    46:56
    The long version. I don't even remember the theatrical versions because I haven't seen them since the theaters. Yeah, me neither. So when tournaments run longer than that, they've gone too long. That is my position. Setting aside things like state championship series and stuff like that, major events sort of things, I don't feel that it should be longer than a movie experience. I'm there to do a social interaction, have fun, and that's a long time to be – and most of that time is sitting. I understand if it's the big super tournaments where it's like a full weekend of insanity with thousands of people that it's going to take forever.
    47:34
    But yeah, a normal tournament. If we're set at six hours or more, if I'm not getting home until midnight for my 5 p.m. tournament, I'm not a happy Tony. Yeah, it's just – and so that's where it's gotten more difficult for me lately because I have other stuff that I want to do. And I have to consider when we talk about or I consider going and doing a Saturday tournament, I have to at this point defaultly assume as of because I'm going to have to leave the house like 4, 430, depending which location it is, that the rest of my evening is lost. I cannot I don't have the rest of my day. It's because I have no idea when I'm going to be like, is it going to be I don't even always know the format. So if it's going to be head-to-head play, I might be out in under an hour.
    48:24
    If I win, though, in fact, I won two, lost two last time I was at 403 Club, and that still stretched me to 8.35 p.m. at a 5 p.m. start. And I played against four people total.
    48:38
    No, it doesn't work for me is my problem. But as I get older, I'm just like, this doesn't work for me. I got a 30-minute drive back after this, and it is what it is. So anyway, Rumor Corner, because we're in Rumor Corner. That is not the rumor. No one cares about what we just whined about except us.
    49:01
    The Rumor Corner is actually about another pinball company we don't spend a lot of time talking about, Dutch Pinball, makers of the Big Lebowski, which they continue to, I was going to say churn out, but that would imply a high level of production. I think I read somewhere – I don't remember his name. It might have been on Facebook, though. Something like they're in, like, the 140s of the early adopters. So, I mean, they've been making progress. It's been years, but they've been making progress. They're getting there. We thought they would have folded years ago. I completely figured when they started making them out of a basement one at a time, I thought they were done. Yeah, so we definitely miscalled that. So here's the thing.
    49:40
    This is already a circulating rumor. This isn't new to individuals, but Dutch Pinball is anticipated. I believe this is covered on the Pinball News, Pinball Magazine. That's a lie. Nobody anticipates it. Yes. That they're going to be revealing game number two, I guess, relatively soon. Who's going to trust them with money?
    50:00
    Honestly, they've been at it so long that there are a lot of people that don't remember the ARA and the Fallout and everything. We talked a lot about ARA, however you want to say it. That was their original contract manufacturer and how that all fell apart and how they had squandered so much money. And that's why they're in the situation they're in. They're just honestly, there are a lot of collectors now that don't know any of that.
    50:21
    And if you buy a new TBL, you don't wait. Like, you get it pretty quick. It's the people that pre-bought back with the contract manufacturer that are stuck waiting for enough sales. And they get one and enough sales and another one goes out. So anyway, another game at long last. Because they have consistently said that they were not going away after this. despite my personal opinion, which obviously they don't care about, which was finish up your big Lebowskis, make everyone whole, pat yourself on the back for spending a decade to do it, and then end this and go away. That's not their plan. Their plan is to make more games. So here's the thing. I've seen very little about stuff, but purportedly people have tried this game, played this game, and said that it plays pretty well, which is a reputation that the big Lebowski had. In fact, we finally played it at this year's TPF, and we both had pretty positive reaction to the game. You actually more so than me in terms of how it played. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. So I'm hearing that game's coming out soon, and the game plays really well. What the rumor corner is, which I've not heard from outside sources, and that we are sharing here exclusively with the Collected Gamers Podcast listeners, is that the theme itself that they've gone with, that the theme will be known, but it is not remotely of the same caliber as the cult classic, The Big Lebowski.
    51:50
    So it's going to probably, this is my speculation at this point, no longer the rumor. My speculation would be, it's going to have to really rely on exposure and acceptance of the gameplay. Whereas with Big Lebowski, a lot of people just bought it because they loved the dude. and then it just happened that the game was good and so that just added to the oh wow it's actually a good not like when people were trying to buy predator another game no one remembers um where it was like this game is crap but we love predator so we want it like i don't know anyone who thought predator played well even nate shivers back when he did coast to coast pinball actually like because i felt this is i thought he was oh i thought i felt he was overly kind to predator but even he was like this like it's not my type of game which is you know his code yeah it's code for people that don't like to say anything negative that it's it's oh i almost swore it's uh it's it's terrible stuff it's bad stuff anyway are you rumored what oh yes what do you think what would be a theme that would be interesting i haven't heard any like the rumor didn't include any like i don't know if it's a movie music like a band see tv show i mean because the big lebowski's so cult i could see another cult but we've already got a lot of the cult classics have already had things made on them by one group or another well well i mean what some i mean there are because cult classics aren't you know like broadly commercial like For example, the low-hanging cult classic fruit would be Big Trouble in Little China. That would be. Because people talk it up all the time. Probably a pretty cheap license to get because the movie itself didn't do great. It's such a good movie, though. It's a true cult classic. It is. However, I don't think the rumor would be what the rumor is if it was Big Trouble. Because I think Big Trouble has a bigger cult status than The Lebowski. I'm probably wrong on that. I'm probably being 80s nostalgia biased because I've seen Big Trouble in Little China. I own Big Trouble in Little China. I don't own Lebowski. It's a great movie. So that would be one.
    54:06
    Escape from New York. Assault on Precinct 13. I think that's a little too out there. Rocky Horror Patricia. Rocky Horror.
    54:17
    Very cult classic. I admit, I would be tempted. I would definitely want to play a Rocky Horror I don't know if I'd be tempted to purchase a Rocky Horror but I would definitely want to play a Rocky Horror you want me to go real weird cult classic, how about that French film Brotherhood of the Wolf do you remember that? we saw that in theaters I guess we did I know I did I know it's got a lot of buzz It's one of the extremely well-respected action movie. And again, it actually got theatrical release. It was subbed.
    55:01
    There probably is a dubbed version. But it actually, I watched a YouTube thing on it. And purportedly, it did achieve cult classic. It did very well on video. And it achieved cult classic status. And they're Dutch, remember? So maybe that's a bigger deal over there. Could be. Because the French film and the Dutch are kind of here. They might not be able to afford Rocky Horror. It could be Priscilla.
    55:27
    Oh. See, why couldn't Haggis do that? Because that's set in Australia. Yes. Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Yep. I haven't seen that in a long time. It's a fun movie, though. Yeah. They both are. Yeah.
    55:41
    Okay. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. See, there's just so many cool classics that normally, for a high-volume entity, they wouldn't make them because there's just not like you don't know if the demand is there for for such a for such a arachnophobia.
    56:01
    Then you stay with the John Goodman theme, too. That would be that would be funny, especially if you could get him to do call outs as the exterminator.
    56:10
    I think I got out of the ball drains. I think it's still there on the bottom of my shoe. Maybe this ball safe. I don't know.
    56:24
    Anyway, are you rumor-tained? I was rumor-tained. Oh, okay. Good. Well, video game entertain us. Video game-tainment?
    56:34
    I come to you with video games, and there's just some amazing news. Lord of the Rings Golem. My precious. This game was so successful. It was such a big hit. It's so amazing. We swear it. That, how do you pronounce it, Daedalic, the company that made it, was so successful that they decided they cannot possibly top making Golem, so they are completely out of the video game development business.
    57:03
    They laid off 25 employees and decided we're never going to make another. We're going out on top, baby. We going out on top We can do another one this good This news and we talked about this before we went on air has very much excited me because I think this increases the odds that a version of this game comes out maybe within the next year. And I'm thinking that this is probably one that I need to live stream on Eclectic Gamers Podcast. It would definitely be something special. Get your emo hair all right. I kind of have my hair like that today. Yeah, get your hair all emo'd right. We'll get a little powder and whatever. Give it to us raw and wiggling.
    57:49
    Anyway, that was fun news. I was really excited. That was, yeah. That was great fun. The Microsoft Federal Trade Commission trial was going on. They had five days of hearings, lots of discussions.
    58:05
    Sony had some documents. that they used some really poor redaction on, where they just used a Sharpie to black out certain things, and then when they scanned it so it could be displayed, you could see straight through the Sharpie.
    58:22
    Oh, that's unfortunate. So that was all on financial information. So we found out that Sony got $1.5 billion from their cut of Call of Duty sales on PlayStation just in 2021. Wow. So that is a big number.
    58:45
    We also learned that Activision's deal with Sony for Call of Duty ends this year, at the end of this year. Yeah, because they've had some special exclusive arrangements, like timed exclusive stuff or custom skins and stuff. All sorts of, yeah. Yeah. We also learned that Bethesda had more PlayStation games in development than Xbox when they were acquired by Xbox. And we also learned that Microsoft was so worried about not getting Starfield that it was one of the trigger points for the purchase of Bethesda. Interesting. That one, that was very surprising to me. I mean, I get it when I think about it. I just, I didn't know Starfield was that big of a deal to them. and that there was a perceived risk that they wouldn't have it. Yeah. They also, one of the very first things they did was they canceled all PlayStation versions of games that didn't already have an exclusivity agreement, which has apparently caused some surprise in Bethesda because they've changed tact so much on the Activision bid, where they're saying, oh, yeah, we'll do this, because apparently Bethesda had asked about releasing on PlayStation, and Microsoft was like, no.
    59:58
    And now they're like, yeah, no, totally. Yeah, no, and I think that's just a response to the criticism that they've got of the scrutiny of the deal. Because honestly, my assumption had been when they got Bethesda, they were doing it to get exclusives. Right. Because that's the biggest complaint people, again, from a console sales perspective, which because they're so far in third place, it's like the biggest criticism is, oh, Microsoft doesn't have any good exclusives. so why not buy a studio where people love their franchises so you have a few yeah i mean it would just make sense but uh let's see what else they say microsoft uh their internal documents expect to see the playstation 6 in 2028 which i've heard things about the next round of xbox around 2028 yeah i was hearing that i think that's pretty much commonly considered when we'll probably see the next generation come out.
    60:51
    Sony is intending to keep Activision out of the PS6 development loop if Microsoft acquires them, because apparently Activision had a rather large hand in helping with hardware development of the PS5. That was interesting. Yeah, I never thought about a software company like that being involved in their hardware development.
    61:09
    What should be a zero surprise to anybody, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella stated that they'd love for to eliminate console exclusivity on everything they don't want any games to be exclusive yes yes that that makes sense for the person in last place that you wouldn't want anything to be exclusive that's true um but what also came out as interesting to me because i'd not actually heard it before um but microsoft it's come out that microsoft chose activision for a purchase not about the consoles uh we always talk we always refer to it as you know Activision Blizzard, but the truth of the matter is it's Activision Blizzard King. King is the mobile division. That was the primary driver on Microsoft's purchase, or desire to purchase, is for King. I had, and this is in my head canon, I had always thought that Phil Spencer wanted Activision for the console video games and the way he sold it to microsoft was we'll have such a big space in mobile gaming because of king this is why we should spend this much money is because that's where you'll make money but he'll be able to position his xbox division much better because he's got activision blizzard stuff but king is the reason why it makes sense for microsoft to which makes sense but yeah i mean we never talk about it because it's like not a part of any of the debate that ever like comes up with the, like you shouldn't be able to, like, I haven't heard anyone go out and say, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't get King, but it's like, but King's huge. Yeah. We don't want Microsoft to have candy crush. Yeah.
    62:52
    But I mean, it's just one of those things. Um, the, the hearings are over. Uh, there has been, as of this date, no ruling. It'll probably come out tomorrow. Of course it will. I, it's going to have to come out soon. Uh, They've got, if it doesn't come out by the, I think it's the 17th, the 13th or the 17th, something like that.
    63:16
    Microsoft's got to pay out Activision Blizzard a lot of stuff and have the contract dissolved, ended, failure to hit the date payments.
    63:30
    Twitch is adding a whole bunch of social media stuff to the Twitch app to get more interaction. It's people. It's literally, I think they're trying to fight the fact that TikTok and all of that has become the primary contact points for a lot of their streamers, and they're doing interactions when they're not streaming with their groups. They're trying to bring that in-house too. Okay. Well, I get the motivation, but I mean. Yeah, who uses the Twitch app? Yeah, I don't know. So, I mean, it's kind of like YouTube is sort of the same way. There's not – outside of comments, there's like – YouTube took away the messaging feature because like harassment and stuff was a problem. So most of that stuff is done through discords or Facebook or other things.
    64:22
    Starfield, which we talked about. Yeah. Physical editions of Starfield are not going to have discs except for the Xbox standard edition. The super fancy, exclusive, expensive collector's editions? No discs. The PC versions? No discs. They're all going to just have digital codes. Will it come with an airbrushed motorcycle helmet? No, they're nowhere near that cool. They wish they were that cool.
    64:52
    They'll come with, like, a sandwich. So you can make a pile of sandwiches on your table. Table sandwich. I collect sandwiches. That was so weird. That was like one of the weirdest parts of that whole thing. I collect sandwiches and it's just a table full of sandwiches. It's like, these are my trophies. I'm like a serial killer and I take sandwiches. Trophy.
    65:20
    Another thing we've not really talked about. There's been a lot of drama on Reddit over the last couple of months. and we've kind of ignored it because it's not video games, it's not pinball, and it just kind of barely relates to it. But Mojang has ended its official support for the Minecraft subreddit due to the ongoing issues with Reddit. Oh, okay. And I know I've talked about it briefly here and there because there's been some drama going on, but we've pretty much stayed away from it. But, yeah, no, it is spreading and continuing to the point of places pulling their official support.
    66:00
    Ubisoft, getting ahead of the game, is dropping a blockchain game. I'm amazed this isn't Square Enix news. That was my first thought. I thought I misread the article when I read it. But, yep, nope, they are dropping a PvP tactical RPG that utilizes the blockchain.
    66:21
    I don't know. At some point, people have to stop making blockchain games be a thing. I can't see it taking off. Maybe it will, but it just seems weird to have the core mechanic of your game be something blockchain related. It just feels forced to me. It does. Like, we're going to make this work because it's got hype stuff. Blockchain is hype.
    66:47
    It's the block. Except it's not anymore. It's over. It's crypto winter time. Congratulations if you still own a bunch of crypto. Sorry.
    66:57
    Maybe invest in something tangible. Sorry you didn't get out when the time was right. How's your GameStop stock doing while I'm asking about your financial health? How are your diamond hands doing?
    67:12
    It's going to go to the moon any minute now. To the moon! Niantic. Developers of Pokemon Go. Yes, I haven't played that in years. I haven't either. I work with a couple people who still play it every day.
    67:31
    They are reducing staff heavily. They are letting go a quarter of their staff. They have outright canceled their Marvel game that was in production. It hasn't launched yet, but it's been in production. It's gone. They also have shut down their NBA all-world game that just launched, like this year. It shut down They're completely closing their LA studios And they are Trimming down and concentrating On continuing Pokemon Go As a living forever game And they're also concentrating On a couple smaller projects Collaborations they're working on with Nintendo And a Monster Hunter game They just recently Closed their Harry Potter game I mean, it was only up for like two years, and then they shut it down. Do they still have the game you used to play before Pokemon Go came out? There was something you used to play. There was. They did have a game. That's what I played before Pokemon Go, and I actually enjoyed it more than Pokemon Go. I don't know if it's still up. I've not touched it even longer than Pokemon Go. I can't remember the name of it. But I played that game like religiously before Pokemon Go came out. I still think it was the better game. and i think we're at the end of our yuji naka saga they finally he had all the stuff and the judge has sat down and actually um set down final judgment he has been sentenced to two and a half years in prison but that's the sentence yeah that sentence has been suspended he's on probation for four years and as long as he doesn't violate probation he does not have to go to jail okay He does still need to repay his $1.2 million in fines, though.
    69:22
    I guess he doesn't got to go fast to jail. Yeah, he's just got to walk the straight. I wonder, what is the probation for a white-collar crime like that? It's like no more insider trading. Is that the probation? Just don't cheat the stock market. Yeah, I wonder if he has to do check-ins like you hear about. Have you been running stocks today? Let me see your stock portfolio. Maybe. I get to have access to your Vanguard username and password. Going in and checking, making sure.
    69:57
    Can you imagine taking your accountant into your parole officer so he can go through your stocks? It's so strange. It's so weird.
    70:07
    Now, you have to end on something special. I'm going to end on something special. I was bored. Let's start. I'm going to open this up. I was bored. I'm getting Buffy Willow. Bored now. I was nowhere near that good. Okay. But I was looking, and I found a live stream last weekend,
    70:27
    and it was a live stream of the Bandai Namco game announcement panel at Anime Expo. And I was like, oh, look, let's see what anime games that Bandai Namco is kicking out, Because that's what they kick out, like tons and tons and tons. That's like their bread and butter. I kind of hoped because they announced at the PlayStation thing, I think it was the PlayStation thing earlier in the year, that there is going to be a new Dragon Ball Z Budokai coming out. They didn't say anything about it. But what gets me is it was, I'm serious, the worst panel I have ever seen in my entire life. there wasn't that many people there. There was lots of empty seats. The crowd was silent.
    71:22
    They were announcing games, and everybody up at the panel in the desks were clapping, and they had their hype guy there who was trying to hype everything up, and it was dead.
    71:35
    I mean, there was no hype. Occasionally you get a whoo. I mean, you could hear the people on the panel clapping more. They had all the Japanese developers for the games coming up and talking to it, and they'd do their normal say hi in English with a few words of English, and they'd switch over to a translator. And you could tell they had spots written into their discussions to have.
    71:58
    It's basically like wait for applause. Yeah, applause, pause, yeah. Yeah, and they would stop, and there'd be nothing. it would just be silence and then they go yeah we were very excited too it was just so heavily scripted but half of the script wasn't happening so it was just everything was super one-sided and they were doing giveaways what they were doing giveaways was by basically pulling out uh numbers to choose like which section which row which chair but every time they did a giveaway they'd have to draw they'd have to draw the numbers multiple times before they found a chair that actually had somebody sitting in the chair because it was just they were giving away like really expensive stuff like multi-hundred dollar models and stuff but it's like uh this one uh no there's nobody in the chair this one no there's Someone in the chair, this one, okay, yay, congratulations.
    73:02
    It was just, I was sad. I was so sad. They had the one translator lady translating everybody. So sometimes they'd have like multiple people talking, but she would translate everybody. So it was just kind of like you couldn't tell who was saying what. And she was reading everything, the script off of an iPad anyway as she was setting up there. so she was just sitting there just reading straight off the ipad she might not have even known japanese i don't know i'm assuming she did uh but most everything read is so scripted that it didn't feel like there was anything off the cuff and because it's an anime convention at one point they just brought out a whole bunch of cosplayers and had them standing behind the developers as they were talking about their game and they would just occasionally turn around and How about a hand for our cosplayers? Because they're just sitting there. And the whole room's just like, yay.
    74:01
    It was funny. I was playing Overwatch 2, and Tony was sending me messages. I kept checking my phone. It was like, I'm watching Bandai Namco. Dennis, it's bad, Dennis. Dennis, it's really bad. Nobody's there, Dennis. Dennis, the panel is clapping for itself. That's all I can hear is the panel is cheering itself on. The hype man is just dying here. Dennis, they have to do multiple giveaways on the drawings. No one's there. Everyone left because it's such a mess.
    74:34
    Dennis, this is really bad. Maybe you should watch it. It's so bad, but it's bad. So be aware that it's bad. I did not watch it. Yeah, no, it's fine.
    74:45
    I understand it's not the situation you would expect a big crowd anyway. It's just the crowd was so dead, and it was just so – I said, the hype guy, you could see him. He's trying to rally stuff up and get stuff going. He's got that hollow excited. Let's go, yeah!
    75:02
    But it just wasn't working. It was rough. It was real rough. I enjoyed it. I had quite a lot of fun laughing at it. Well, and hopefully the listeners have enjoyed it as well. But we're not really recommending that you go back and watch it. No. This is the recount that you needed. Yes. This is the recount you deserved. This was more enjoyable than actually watching it.
    75:24
    Well, we made it. We're done. Through. So if you want to reach out to us about Bandai Namco or anything else we talked about on this episode, you can email us at eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com. You can also go and comment at facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. You can support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers. we're available on twitch twitter and instagram and we've already talked about uh the link for our discord where we talk with everybody pretty often yep we talk video games talk pinball we talk uh off topic stuff as well we got that discord's actually gotten a lot more activity lately too so so thank you for that and you don't have to be a patreon member to join this discord it's it's open to everyone yeah and we will be back in a couple of weeks who knows what mysterious news we'll probably well at the very least we should know the outcome of the ftc stuff i would hope so I think we have to hear about it this week. Anyway, until then, my name is Dennis. I'm Tony. Goodbye, everybody. See you.