Broadcasting live from the Two Brothers Pinball Pale Ale Craft Beer Studios, this is the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. The Special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Thanks for hitting that set button and taking the plunge. Here are your hosts, Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb. Bill Webb Hey, what's going on pinball land? Welcome to episode number 21 of the Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast. His name's Bill Webb. My name is Ken Cromwell and we're going to do our best to keep you informed and entertained throughout the next 30 to 40 minutes on episode 21 of Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast. What's up Bill? What's going on? Not a lot. This is the blackjack episode. What's that? Oh, that's right. Blackjack. Do we double down? Or wait, do we split? Yeah, we're going to split. Split? Yep. Yeah. We'll meet again tomorrow at 5-2 starts, Sam Tompkins, thanks for watching! Plus one more� The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WDW.com, and is not intended to represent the views, opinions, or opinions of any individual. The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. We'll be right back. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Popadiuk, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, Mirco Playfields, Everybody on the land of the world. Look for me at www.knapp.com. If you're a fan of the Knapp Instagram BAR, that's 78THeW Därby, wasn't losing. all the cabinets that i've done so far for pinball not most he's done all help me install all the decals i've put on pinball machines happy to do it that's part of my full-time job i get it i get it um and then uh once that's installed it's going to go to the body shop for about ten ten days uh two weeks and do a couple of sprays on it so it just looks like butter yeah you know not dipped in butter because if we dip the cabinet that'd be bad The cabinet should look wicked from where I'm sitting right now, which I wasn't going to dispose that information about maybe doing a different topper on it, so thank you for smelling those beans. No, I think you mentioned that on the podcast last week or the week before. Oh, did I? Yeah, you said you were thinking about doing a custom wicked topper that nobody else had. Yeah, and I have the idea, once we get closer to having something in hand to show people, then I'd be more willing to dispense how I plan on doing that. Well then, we're gonna leave it at that. I have a mystery. You know, and for those of you that are looking for picture updates, because we do have a pretty humble thread on Pinside, and it's called Special When Lit Pinball Podcast Starts Now. It pays a little homage to Rachel West, who does our voiceovers for the opening of the show. And somebody asked, hey, where can I find these pictures and follow the progress of Bill's Whirlwind build? I just don't know where. And the answer is our Facebook page. So if you go to our Facebook page, which is Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast, you'll find there, you know, give us a like and just get involved with the community. And then yeah, I mean, all Bill's picks are updated there and they're nice. I mean, you've gotten a lot of compliments on it. So you know, I love looking at them. I'm actually able to look at them first before they go public. So that's kind of fun. So I get the little preorder aspect of it. But you're doing a great job, man. And I appreciate that you take the time to kind of document this and kind of share with The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or spinners, David David Van Es, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, I always try and do one better than the last. You've streamlined your process since the initial build too, so it's pretty interesting to see. I mean, you're very methodical on how you approach everything and you're so focused, but you're, man, you are like ultra, ultra critical of yourself when it comes down to certain things where I'm like, man, I don't think you have to worry about this at all. And you're like, no, man, it's 1 64th of an inch off on this left corner. I'm like, oh my gosh, dude, you're crazy. Well, here, you want to be less than a 16th, so a 32nd is good, because then you know you won't have rub issues or anything like that. But yeah, honestly, you know, to the people out there that have toyed with the idea of doing a project, a virtual pin, rebuilding a cabinet, it is possible to do it. You need a good table saw, a good router, good router bits, patience. You need a cabinet to go off of. You're not just going to just wing this by the way. No, you're not. You need something to build off of. Yeah, you need a template or something. Yeah. I mean, you can't build a virtual pin out of... You can build a virtual pin out of anything, but if you want a replica of a pinball cabinet, you're going to need a control group or something that you can copy off of a reverse engineer or you're going to need to find templates online. You're going to need something. Oh yeah, absolutely. There's no way you're doing it without good dial calip indicators to make sure that you're within specs on everything, especially the buttons and everything else. Don't ask for the pay, dude. www.inndisc.com Xenophi현 Twins spent 10 years getting playing earth from the foreseeable past when the originally made pinballеляad was his child. AAh! See's all thay're emporas Kamiyama oM fho na fto The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. This is a production of W vernane Pro hätte. Gerald Polkmann, p.o.: and have to roll with it idea Let's backwards... Glad we're not talking about Beatles. No, no, no, we're talking Coindors now. Right. But, you know, let's backwards engineer this. So if you've got a re-import Twilight Zone, semi-hypothetical... Yeah, I've had a re-import Twilight Zone. That's why I'm throwing this out here this way. Oh, I see what you're doing. Uh-huh. So you have... We're gonna pause for station identification on the Special Win Lit Podcast Network. Yeah. So you had the import Coindor. That was like the first thing that you took off of it. The first thing that pissed me off. I don't have a problem with the re-imports. I really don't. No. They all came out of Chicago. They were just wired to go overseas. They were just visiting. Yeah, but yeah, they were re-imported. The coin door, though, I couldn't stand it. I had to get a brand new coin door, which I picked up at Pinball Life, and I just threw it on that Twilight Zone because I just, the single slot bothers me. Like, it just bothers me. And again, I came over from the arcade side of things, so I have some knowledge on collecting The only thing that didn't have a coin door in the most part in the arcade industry was if you had built your own homebrew, so to speak, arcade machine, which would be like a MAME or a multi-game setup or replication cabinet. A lot of people don't want to router out the front kick plate area to throw a coin door in there, but the coin door is the stamp of approval for badass commercial grade quality equipment. It doesn't necessarily actually mean that, but psychologically, if I have something like that in my row of pinball machines, I'd much rather have a coin door that could have coin mechs. It doesn't even have to have the coin mechs. No, it just feels legitimate. And the coin mechs go behind the coin door. They're what accept the coinage to credit up the machine. So those can actually for those who don know obviously you can take the coin mechs out and just have a dummy coin door there Yep I need that I need that I rather have that than a nice decal or a plaque or anything like that Please give me a coin door Now I don how are they deciding who gets a coin door and who doesn Is it and again this is more speculation Are they only going to give coin doors to operators that can show a license that it going to go on location Or can myself Ken Cromwell the consumer say you know what I want to get a Beatles gold edition and I want to make sure that it has a coin door I not an operator but I want it in my basement with a coin door I have no idea how that's... Right. But you know what, that's one, you know, a couple things. But either way, that just goes to stress the importance of having the right coin door, or a coin door in general. But like you, you know, here I have a re-import door on my getaway, and if I wasn't going to build another one at some point, I would use the coin door that I have for the second getaway, that is the actual right WPC early coin door would be on that getaway now. Right. For me and my level of collecting, wanting to have a coin door that looks appropriate Knapp Arcade, Shreddie Hayes, hip oddball, baseballohue, We'll see you next time. All possible. I'd like to replace the re-import coin door and I'd like to replace the service outlet because you usually don't have the service outlet obviously with the re-import. I'd like to change that back so that I have it. And rewire the transformer from 220 to 110. 221, whatever it takes. Yeah, yeah. Well, you don't want to plug that in because you're going to have some problems. No, no, you're right though. I mean, but at that point... There's a handful of things you change and it's back to... For sure. And it's, yeah, it's a re-import but for all intents and purposes it's a domesticated machine at that point, domestic game. It is. You put the service outlet back on it. You throw the right coin door on it. You change the transformer wiring, right? Yeah. You change the sticker on it that says, you know, export 220 volt on it. And I think maybe other than a couple of jumpers that you might have to change for your, you know, language settings. Essentially, it's the same thing as anything else. I think some people when they're looking for a pinball machine though they get disappointed to realize that a game was re-imported. Like I know one or two people even even in our kind of st. Charles collector pinball group that they shy away from the re-import. And I can imagine maybe it's because going overseas and coming back. It's on a boat or a plane or whatever. But I mean you can pretty easily lift up a playfield and kind of see if there's corrosion issues or anything like that. See if it went for a swim. Yeah, and I kind of like the reimport stuff because that means that it had a story. That's true. It did have a story, right? I mean, it came over and went over and came back. You know, it'd be like having Steve Ritchie's original high speed that he had. You know, we have rough confirmation where it might be, but if you had Steve Ritchie's original high speed, that thing has a story. Yeah. You know, so I mean, these games that have those stories, I think, draw to the allure of those games. So the fact that one was a re-import from the Netherlands, Germany, or anywhere else, I mean, that meant that it saw some action. You know, it's had a, you know, it's traveled a few thousand miles and it's still together. I mean, that's a cool, cool feat. And pinball's pretty hot right now, too, where a lot of these machines that have been re-imported are being re-exported because you've got containers full of coin-operated machinery going out of the East Coast and heading back to Europe. So, you know, it all comes full circle. At some point, you might have a machine that's gone overseas twice. Yep. All right. And you have like a re-reimport. I don't know. Just interesting. But yeah, please, please, let's get coin doors on those Beatles pins. Yeah. Yeah. I would like to see it too. And I think that's all we're going to talk about Beatles. If it comes out tomorrow, we'll be able to not speculate anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Before we end though, are you buying a Beatles? Are you getting one? I can't afford it. Well, you don't know how much it costs. Yeah. Well, I'm just going to say. Well, we know the gold is what? $7,500. Speculation, $76, $78. Yeah, but there's other games that I still... If you could buy one of the games that I'd rather have, I'd get out of the way. If Beatles came out at $5,500, would you buy one? Hmm. I would strongly consider it. Really? Why? I think it would be cool. I think it would be cool to have for a little while. It would be cool to have for a little while, yeah. I mean, I just... I'm not a diehard Beatles fan. I was going to say, I know you're not a diehard. So if somebody had one for $55 and you're thinking about it, you just kind of shocked me a little bit. I'd do it to play it. If we could buy one at a $7,500 game at $5,500? I'm just saying if they were released at $5,500. Because is it a $7,500 game? Well, let's just assume it is. But, you know, I think it would be cool to play. I'd like to have it here for a little bit. Yeah. I don't know that it would last very long just because, again, the older Sterns don't appeal to me right now. And, you know, I think I mentioned before, I would have loved to have them go a different direction Now, have a comfortable weekend. I think we've seen most of the pictures on that now. I want to see one in person. I want to see one played. I would imagine there will be like a dead flip stream coming up on this at some point. You would think, yeah. Is that going to be... Sea Witch I guess is not known as an easy pinball machine, so I don't think anybody necessarily would have to worry about somebody sitting down streaming it and blowing it up. But I don't know the complexity of the rule set, so maybe it is something a little more basic. Oh my gosh, it's a good thing we're not talking about Beatles. I was thinking that 30 seconds ago. Oh my goodness. Let's change the subject. All right. What do you want to talk about? Other thing on the docket today, in my opinion. Do you have show notes? I have no show notes today. I have very limited, but my little is better than your none. All right. So I'm going to sit back. All right. So Bill and Ted's Pinball Adventure. That's where you're going to go? Going with Bill and Ted's? Yeah. Whether that's a hoax or not, it's cool to think about. It was a terrible 90s movie. Well, let's bring everybody up to date. If you have not seen what had happened or if you're not in the know, so to speak, Jack Danger, who's dead flipped, had changed his banner picture on his Facebook page this past week. And it was essentially, it looked like an advertisement or like a, just like an introductory pic to Bill and Ted's Excellent Pinball Adventure. It's got Keanu Reeves and his co-partner guy and his It's just kind of like a little fun scene from the movie. It's got the Stern pinball logo, which is in the upper left-hand corner. So it looked like kind of like an announcement. Yeah. And you missed the most important character out of that. Death is in there. Yeah, Death is in there. That's my favorite character from, you know. I don't know who played Death, so I couldn't really... You know what, I can't think of his name, but you know, he's like, you sunk my battleship. Yeah. You know. So Death is in there. So I remember I was sitting down in the afternoon and my phone started blowing up and I've got This is a different message indicator for Facebook. It's like ping, ping, ping, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Fifteen, twelve, fifteen messages. It was all based on this Bill and Ted's. Hey, what do you know about this? Hey, what's going on? Did you see this? Did you see this? Did you see this? I'm like, oh my gosh, I thought somebody died. Do you think this is actually a backhanded product announcement that Stern is throwing The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. We'll see you next time. The I'm not faulting the game, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on with putting that on. Hey, but you know what? And on that note, we've been... Like, is that aggravating, kind of? Well, no, but I mean, we've been brought to attention of games. Hey, is this a good idea for a game? What would you think of this theme? Only later to find out that actually it was a theme that someone was, you know, doing. Right. Or another company was doing, and it was actually going to come to fruition. Okay. So maybe it is, you know, a little bit of both, or... Like, what if I updated my banner pic and photoshopped Stern or a Jersey Jack Fast and the Furious analogy pin where like, or where they just had... I think that'd be awesome. Right. And then put it up on there and I left it up there for like 20, 30 minutes and then I, well, probably nobody would see it in 20 or 30 minutes. Well, no, but leave it up for half a day and then put, you know, have somebody flag the image so it gets removed and says this image can no longer be shared for whatever reason. Right, so then, are you like, wow, it's coming, or why did Ken at Special Winlet do that? Like, is it all in good fun? But you would tell me that you did that just to start interest. I don't know that I would at this point, no. And I would still be like, I hope Ken's just jagging me and this is really going to get made. But that or Pitch Perfect, the pinball machine would be... I see what you did there. Yeah, you liked it. Yeah, that was a little Pitch Perfect. Yeah. Well, and the other thing, I mean, Stern is kind of, are they into trolling lately? I'll tell you what, man, I'm not digging trolling anymore. Like, I'm starting to realize that it's just more frustrating. It gives content to talk about, but it's useless content. So it, for instance, Stern took a bunch of pictures. I think I saw George Gomez and Jody Dankberg and who else was it? Keith Elwin, they were like at Harry Potter Land at Disney World or something like that. And as soon as I saw that, I'm like, because I know a lot of people that are like, man, Harry Potter, if it ever came out, would be the theme of the century. I'm not a fan of pinball, but I guess that's not going to happen because what's-her-face that created Harry Potter thinks that pinball is evil and a gambling device and it's the root of all hell. So whatever. But then Stern posts all that stuff and it's like they're just teasing everybody. Yeah. Right? So is Bill & Ted's, is it a tease? Like is trolling even worth it? Is it fun to troll? I don't really. I don't really... Because I will say this. I know a machine that will be coming out in the middle of March, I'll say from Stern, that nobody has heard about or mentioned, even in all the channels that we talk about and we talk to, nobody knows that this team is coming. And it's shocking and crazy. I'm speechless because I don't even know. Just to let everybody else know. Just to prove a point, dude, I just, that's trolling. I just made it all up. Ah, okay. See, but it's like it kind of sounded interesting. It's like, wow, what is this theme going to be? Why don't I know about it? Well, the best part is if you were to just not throw that last part on, people would have been like... Well, let's hope nobody turned that off and started posting. But I mean, and I'm not picking on Stern. We'll see you next time on the show. We see you next week It going into potentially Bill and Ted excellent pinball adventure But I like thinking about death multiball It fun So that all the only rewarding part of it And I guess the touche in this is, I mean, it's not the busiest week in pinball news. So for Jack or Stern to kind of offer something up for us to kind of contemplate, maybe it is something that's acceptable. But trolling in general just annoys me. Yeah. A lot of things annoy me. A lot of things annoy me on other podcasts that are going on. We'll see you next time. adviser to table-ânge James Onlineой In Exact Time OK, let's start with Cr draws No fish Offer Ken Is What do you have for topic number three, buddy? Got anything else there in that old pipeline of stuff? So another cool thing was there was a gentleman who shared on the Pinball Enthusiast website a picture of a Monster Bash that was actually a pin 2K that was sent to the patent office. So here's my question to you. Whoa, whoa, whoa. There was a Monster Bash that's a pin 2K that got sent to a patent office. I'm lost. See, the problem is I'm too excited and I actually had caffeine today, so I'm talking Get your ideas or ideas into the commentheat section for Goldendas Wide Finest Pick Up their coolet to listen to, Gpremio's Home invites, Mac, and Arotte s knife at azterbringenblFeet.com and get your ideas or ideas or ideas or ideas or ideas or holistic 뉴스 All right, anyways. Anyhoo, so there, in this image, there is a picture of a Monster Bash in the form of a Pinball 2000, like a Star Wars Episode I or Revenge from Mars. Oh, look, can I see it? Is it on your phone right now? It is on my phone right now. Oh, snap, it is. So it's a Pin 2000 with a Monster Bash, like, Translite and cabinet artwork. Yeah. And it's got a patent on it. Which I think would have been a really cool game to see as a... Did that patent come out, I wonder, after Monster Bash had already been released? Yeah, it must have. That's pretty cool, though. Yeah. I think that would have been a great game to see as a pin 2000. Or, like, what if that was supposed to be like a Monster Bash 2? Like, just like, you know, Attack from Mars was the original, and then Revenge from Mars was the follow-up. I wonder if they were planning on doing Monster Bash graphically in a Pinball 2000 type of setup. That would have been an awesome game to see. That would have been cool. The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WMS, a production of WMS. Next in line, too. Oh, jeez. Yeah, Playboy would have been interesting. Yeah, right? Interesting. It would have made the... Jeez, what would have gone on with a Playboy Pinball 2000? It would make the Monkey Gate debacle look very minimal. That should have been like a Pinball 2069 pin or something. Yeah, yeah. Just like some weird... Sold in novelty shops and truck stops across the United States. Right. Instead of a coin door, it's like a Kleenex. Yeah, yeah. What's going on? You have the... Uh-oh. Yeah, oh yeah. You know where I'm going with this, don't you? Exactly. It would be a great mod for that pinball machine. Yes, there would be. Potentially, you know, and who knows. Yeah. If you ever see us in person, we'll tell you what that mod is, but that's not something we're going to talk about on this show because it would not be family friendly. No, no, no, no, no. It would make the monkey, never mind. Yeah. All right, just keep going. Yeah, monkey would be G-rated. Move along. Anywho, so yeah, you know, and I've said this before, and I don't think I've said it on the podcast, but one that I'd love to see is a getaway that was done in the Pin2K forum. The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. Right off the bat, you could make the head half the size. And if you remember, John Popadiuk had an original Pinball 2000 design that he had put forth or put forward. And that was instead of having the monitor in the backbox facing down, I think he had extended the back of the cabinet to have that screen kind of in a direct line of view, kind of similar to what he had done on lowering the DMD on Circus Voltaire and having the LCD lower on his Magic Girl design. Yeah. So I mean that idea had stuck with him so I'm wondering if maybe he's got something that he's offering in like LCD projection or I don't know. Well and in the Tilt Battle to Save Pinball DVD there's a picture of John Popadiuk with a... That's an awesome freaking documentary. Yeah if you haven't, if you're listening to the show and you haven't watched it you really should. And what's it called again? Tilt the Battle to Save Pinball. Tilt the Battle to Save. Really informative and you know you just get a better perspective of what kind of odds everyone was against and what was going on at that time. Yeah. That said, there's a picture of John Popadiuk standing in front of a pinball machine where they cut, you know, a regular like an Addams Family style cabinet or Terminator or however you want to. But they cut the back out so they could literally stick a CRT through it. Yeah. You know, like that was one of their ideas to save pinball. And it was just, you know, an interesting idea at the time. Gee, pinball machines are so heavy as it is. We'll see you next time on Pinball Podcast. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time on Pinball Podcast. I think it's been discussed before, there were advancements when the time called for it in a panic mode to bring pinball to another level. And 20 years ago they made a substantial change that should have changed pinball going forward. And now here we are in the year 2018 getting ready to go into 2019 and we've become complacent and accepting as to the general type of things that we know we're going to get from a pinball machine. Out of the box. Out of the box. But where's the next shocking move? Where's the next innovation? Where's the next thing that makes you go holy smokes, like this is crazy. I don't know who's going to bring it to us. And again, I've speculated. That's why we want to go down to Texas. Yeah man, does deeproot have that in their back pocket? And it's OK if they don't, but I think at some point we have to evolve a little bit, and I don't mean talking about going from a DMD, a dot matrix display to an LCD and a I don't even know that I'm a huge fan of the LCD necessarily. Like the extra large DMDs that you see on the remakes from Chicago Gaming Company, I almost think it's more fun and retro-modern feeling than having an LCD. And when I say that, I absolutely see the benefits of having an LCD, but you really have to take advantage of the assets that you've acquired from the license to make that LCD make sense. For the sense. Worthwhile and worthwhile for sure. Otherwise I mean sticking a DMD back in the game is almost not a bad deal. And I have to get, you know, I have to give props to Jersey Jack Pinball, I mean the animations that they have on their screen and in and I'm not talking about like rehashing movie clips but the animations in general are are very very impressive. Oh yeah. And that's not to say that I don't appreciate the animations that are on the other manufacturer machines but it's just it's a different approach to their animations that is just so fresh and innovative to me and I like it a lot. So I'm always curious to see what they're putting forth. Well last week we had a neighbor over after we went to dinner with their husband and wife. At the Bill Webb Combine over there? Yeah, they stopped over because the wife is a big Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan. And her husband said, hey Bill got a Hobbit, you gotta check this out. And she played the Hobbit and she thought the game was absolutely incredible. EdMond Weiken感覺는 sus fantasy alisko kon endą p Pelotn starka ze ijs ca realised p Roza a poisonous I bought one and it came down into the basement. And I set this thing up and I turned this thing on. And again, for those of you that don't know, I really am big into artwork on pinball machines, light shows and attract modes because when I'm not playing pinball machines, I like them to look pretty in the background and I like them to be kind of focal points for people to come into the room. A lot of my friends aren't into pinball but you almost have like an animated piece of artwork that's in a corner on a wall. Oh my gosh, that Hobbit Smaug Edition was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen in my life, pinball-wise. Yep. Just as a total package. It was impressive. It commanded attention. When you walked into a room, people were like, holy, what is that? Oh yeah. And it's just awesome. I miss not having one, man. And I'm mad because I've not played one after the big code updates. And Jersey Jack, they just updated a big code update on Dialed In. I mean, it's like they are never ending code updates. They're on versions two and three of this stuff. It's not like these 1.00026. I mean, they're... And they're done. They're crazy. No, they're constantly resetting the bar on themselves, which is a great thing to see. I think for the homeowner, if you get a Jersey Jack pinball machine, I don't know that you ever feel like you've seen the machine to its fullest potential because that code is always evolving, Keitos Kimmelstein, show host of Big Pipe62, nodes power être qui me I'm going through that right now with Attack From Mars remake. But to have code that you may not ever see everything, it's kind of fun to be able to go down, plunge a game, and then think to yourself, man, there's a chance that I'll see something tonight if everything falls my way that I've never seen on this machine and I've had this machine for four or five years. I think it's cool to have that. See, alright, and we have to jump into a question that we got too, because this kind of coincides with game code and, you know, Monster Bash, in my opinion, the pin 2k, you know, I think that's a great innovation, especially for what it was, but it wasn't too deep. You got The Hobbit, which is, you know, 600 pages worth of code in my eyes, you know, you'll never, you'll never finish reading it. So this next question came from Brad Hunter, who wrote into the show. And this is the email, which I'm going to Hey Ken and Bill, what do you think are some of the fastest dot matrix games under $3,500? My wife likes the speed of Indy 500, but I wouldn't want to put it in my 1-2 pin collection again as I grew tired of it after a few years of owning it. Thoughts? A few years of owning it I mean that just shocking right there to me because a few months of owning it for me is like I like bored with something Nicely done Brad keeping a machine for a few years like an Indy 500 So he threw in maybe fishtails to get away others So he's looking, he needs, it's the need for speed at $3,500 or less. Or less. Preferably dot matrix, so system 11s are out, EMs are out. Wide bodies are out, in my opinion. Okay, possibly. We'll see you next time on F14 Superfast. www.infinitybusinessbiz.com It's pretty fast. I liked it. It's just I liked the getaway more, even though I think Fishtails was a deeper game. And honestly, for speed, I like T2 over probably both of them. T2 has flow. I'm just trying to figure out if it's... It's just not deep. It's not deep, but I mean, that can be appealing, too. I think with him getting bored with Indy 500, I mean, so I would imagine that code is something that's being factored in as well. Out of the three that he mentioned, what was it? Fishtails, Getaway, and T2? Yeah. Getaway is probably in the middle as far as price, right? I would say T2 is probably the most affordable. Yeah. But let me just read it. Fishtails may be the highest value. Yeah. They're all close. Yeah. I mean, I think T2s, you can pick them between 24 and 28. Getaways are 28 to 3. Fishtails are 28 to 32. This is gone up. It has. But here, so let me pose this question. Do you go with a game with simpler code, IET2, and then throw a pin sound in it, which makes it just a whole different playing experience once you've kind of mastered the game? Putting a pin sound in anything is incredible, but it's not going to change the code. No, it's not. But it would give a little bit more, not depth, but a whole new experience to play in the game. Correct. And then throw some pin stadiums on it to really brighten it up. And guess what? We'll see you next time on Pinball Podcast. We'll see you next time. So that's a John Popadiuk pin, and John's known for some flow, but is it fast, World Cup soccer? I don't think it's incredibly fast, but I think it's pretty fast. If he wants, does he want fun? Does it, but he wants fast. I, and fast is subjective too, but again, you can set up anything to be fast. Like Star Trek The Next Generation is not $3,500, but you know, you're probably around 4,500 bucks. You could probably get, get one. Okay. And that's a wide body. What about a Terminator 3? Because then you have more code and it's very similar to T2. I'll be honest, I haven't played Terminator 3. I think it's cool. The backbox is interesting because it's got the ball that you shoot with the handle. Okay. So, I mean, I think T3 is definitely a great value pin for what it is. And honestly, I mean, I think a great suggestion too is anyone that has a game that's in that $3,500 range We'll see you next time. Yeah, I mean, you can... For a pinball machine in the DMD era. And you can still pick up like a Brams and some of the ladders, you know, or mid-2000s Sterns too for that price range. Yeah, for sure, for sure. That's where you get like that extra thousand dollars taking you from $35 to $45 brings you in a whole other level of pinball too. So, I mean, they're tiered. So, if speed is important to you, I don't know. Yeah, it's just a difference, you know, between speed and flow. Right. Or speed and code. Right. But anywho, you know, one of our last topics that we have to cover, Mr. Todd Tuckey. Yeah, so Todd Tuckey was fun to hang out with at Expo. We are going to have a sit down with Mr. Todd Tuckey, an in-depth interview with him. Now, Todd, for those of you that don't know, he's, look up Todd Tuckey on Facebook. He's iconic in the arcade and pinball scenes. His business, TNT Amusements, has been turning and burning and restoring and repairing pins Trans birthdays,君와 담� блок,irie пос walnut우하 어떻게 Helsinki, The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of WGBH. TNT Amusements on YouTube, type in the game and then something pops up. Like if something is for sale that I was kind of curious about how it played, like I'd always go ahead and I'd look for TNT Amusements and see if Todd reviewed the game. You know, things that are typical that you should look for in a game before you buy it for a specific title. You know, this is prone to failure, this is prone to cracking, this is how you do this, this is how the game plays. It's not a stream where it's exposing everything, but he's kind of giving you a general walkthrough of the game. We're going to post the contest rules here in the next couple days because that interview is going to air before the end of the month. What we are going to ask everybody to do is to post your favorite original eye-poking pick. For those of you that know Todd Tuckey, it's the two-finger, three-suites eye poke that is kind of iconic for him. So, you know, get creative and we're going to let Todd pick the most creative iPoke pick that's uploaded to our Facebook page and you will win the Todd Tuckey experience. Now, we're going to ask you this. It's okay to upload a picture for this if you're not able to attend, but let us know that you don't want to be entered into the contest because if you're coming from a place that doesn't really allow you to get to TNT Amusements, which is in Pennsylvania, anytime within the next six to 12 months, Out of the box. Probably not fair for you to kind of take that experience away from somebody that is willing and able to get there. So please keep that in mind when you submit your entry. And again, wait for the official roles to come out before you start posting to the Facebook page which is Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast. And if you have any questions you can message us there or you can contact us at specialwinlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com. But it's going to be a fun interview. And the cool thing about this, Bill, is it's only one interview that's going to be followed We're going to be excited to talk to you about who we've got coming on the show over the next, you know, several weeks. Yep. You know, just extremely grateful to have met him at Expo again. And, you know, every time you talk to him, I've been on the phone with him a few times since we talked about doing this. The Out Pinball Podcast is a production of Iowa Public Television which is solely responsible for its content. Amanda, what's your favorite episode and where did you watch the last 5 episodes? We're still growing as a podcast as we're 21 weeks in or 20 weeks in at this point, four months. And again, we're trying to be better and we're trying to give you better content. Out of the box, we're going to have a special show in between Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. New Year's that we will talk about a little bit later and that's going to be super, super fun, dude. Like I'm totally looking forward to that and we're going to have Dwight Sullivan in from Stern Pinball to try host that show with us. So it'll be myself, Bill Webb, and Dwight Sullivan ringing in the new year with something that's totally off the cuff and something totally special for the listeners. So it'll be good times, man. I'm looking forward to that. Did I say it's going to be fun? Yeah, you know, every week we always say, how are we going to fill this time slot? You know, especially when there's not a lot going on, you know, it just seems to just kind of always roll downhill, right? And I'm like, oh man, we went over. And then you have Dwight or, you know, he's guests in and, you know, we'll spend two and a half hours talking with him about stuff. And Dwight's just so fun to hang out with. I mean, we've been friends with Dwight for a while, but to have him in, in kind of our little podcast world and have him sit down behind the mic, he's just, he's perfect for it, man. And so like we're just looking forward to chilling with Dwight. And the great thing is this, we're not going to have to ask him about Beatles I don't think at that point. Because that should already be out, right? Yeah hopefully. And it's not going to be a Dwight Sullivan interview, because he's co-hosting. This is not necessarily pinball. No it is. It is, but not our standard format. No, it's not going to be a covering the news show. It'll be something different, something fun, and I couldn't think of somebody else better than Dwight to come in and kind of knock that out with us. I think for episode 21, we're going to call it a wrap, Bill. All right. Well, for Ken Cromwell, I'm Bill Webb, and wherever you're at, have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day to play some pinball. So long, everybody.