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The Pinball Show Ep 130: Into The Pini-Verse

The Pinball Network·video·1h 51m·analyzed·Jun 20, 2023
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TL;DR

Troll Hunt announced; Stern licensing expo creates speculation on upcoming IP deals.

Summary

In Pinball Show Ep 130, Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss Stern Pinball's next original game Troll Hunt, analyze IPs Gary Stern was photographed with at a licensing expo (including potential candidates like Dune, Barbie, Tupac, Green Day, and others), debate the Godzilla Topper's reception and $1,000 price, and touch on code updates, production timelines, and community sentiment shifts around new releases.

Key Claims

  • Stern Pinball is working on an original themed game called Troll Hunt

    high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss this as a confirmed topic for the episode

  • Gary Stern was at a licensing expo last week photographed with many IPs, including potential future pinball themes

    high confidence · Discussed as recent event; Stern posted photos on social media

  • Dune is likely to be a Stern pinball license based on IP appearances at the expo

    medium confidence · Dennis predicts Dune as one of the actual licenses, saying 'if you want me to guess out of this entire list what they might actually have...it's Dune'

  • The Godzilla topper initially received negative community reception due to its $1,000 price and initial marketing presentation

    high confidence · Zach describes the initial reaction: 'People were just downright angered. They sharpened their pitchforks'

  • Community opinion of the Godzilla topper shifted positively after Zach's video and Joel Engelberth's stream showing it in action

    high confidence · Zach notes the turnaround: 'After the video and the stream, everybody's opinion changed very quickly'

  • The Godzilla topper includes an exclusive mode (timed attack/wizard mode) unlocked via beta code provided by Stern

    high confidence · Joel Engelberth streamed the exclusive topper mode after receiving beta code from Stern and Keith Elwin

  • Stern produces limited accessory items that become unavailable, creating scarcity and frustration among collectors

    medium confidence · Discussion about accessories no longer available for purchase; relates to product timeline exclusivity

  • Green Day would be a better pinball choice than Grateful Dead among dad-rock options

    low confidence · Dennis's opinion on licensing potential

  • The Tetris film on Amazon/Netflix was not a documentary but a narrative film about the game's origins

Notable Quotes

  • “Stern Pinball should do another original thing. They haven't done one in a long, long time and just call it the world of trolls because they love trolling their consumer base.”

    Zach Minney@ 5:57 — Sets up the episode's discussion of Troll Hunt; commentary on Stern's relationship with community

  • “If it's Rat Pack, I will stop podcasting.”

    Zach Minney@ 7:45 — Humorous but indicates strong opinion against certain licensing choices

  • “If you want me to guess out of this entire list what they might actually have, because I told you I thought they had at least one, it's Dune.”

    Dennis Creasel@ 17:53 — Specific prediction about which licensing expo IP is likely a confirmed deal

  • “People were just downright angered. They sharpened their pitchforks and everything.”

    Zach Minney@ 24:47 — Describes initial community reaction to Godzilla topper announcement

  • “After the video and the stream, everybody's opinion changed very quickly. Oh, well, it's not that bad. It's still not worth $1,000.”

    Zach Minney@ 25:25 — Documents the sentiment shift driven by demonstration content

  • “How much can shape the perception of a product? Whether it is a launch or whether it is more information that comes out...you get a lot of groupthink in small niche, hobbyist, collectible type of communities.”

    Dennis Creasel@ 26:10 — Meta-analysis of community dynamics and information cascade effects

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonGary SternpersonJoel EngelberthpersonKeith ElwinpersonRick NagelpersonMikepersonCraig BobbypersonRon Hallett Jr.personStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball announces Troll Hunt as its next original themed game (non-licensed IP)

    high · Episode title and opening discussion; explicitly stated as 'Stern Pinball's next original themed game, Troll Hunt'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Gary Stern photographed at licensing expo with multiple IPs, suggesting 2-3 upcoming licensed titles in development pipeline; Dune and Barbie appear most likely

    medium · Dennis predicts Dune as actual license; extensive discussion of 15+ IPs visible in expo photos

  • ?

    product_launch: Godzilla Pinball topper accessory released at $1,000 MSRP with exclusive wizard/timed-attack mode unlocked via code

    high · Extensive discussion of topper features, RGB lighting integration, exclusive mode beta code provided to streamers

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Godzilla topper community sentiment reversed from strongly negative to cautiously positive following demonstration video and streamed gameplay showing RGB effects and mode in action

    high · Zach: 'After the video and the stream, everybody's opinion changed very quickly'; people cited better-than-expected visual presentation and RGB shadowing as reasons for revised opinion

  • ?

    code_update: New code released for Godzilla Pinball unlocking exclusive topper mode; previously gated behind physical topper purchase and beta code

    high · Discussion of Joel Engelberth receiving beta code and streaming exclusive mode; clarification that mode is now available in regular code updates

Transcript

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0:01
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:13
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on a jam-packed episode 130, Dennis and I talk about Stern Pinball's next original themed game, Troll Hunt. We also chat Godzilla Topper Flip-Flop, new trending James Bond code, Stern Pinball production updates for the remainder of the year, exclusive TPS Club membership content about Stern Pinball accessory production timelines. We discuss AP shipping some tanks, Jersey Jack and Kamikow into the pin-iverse, our recap of the highly entertaining Home Pin interview from last week, pinball market trends, biting my tongue edition, and Winnie the Pooh pinball. There's even more in this week's TPS, but we don't have time. We've got to start the show.
1:04
A party. Ain't nothing but a gangsta party. Ah, shit. You done fucked up, man. You done picked two of America's most wanted in the same motherfucking place at the same motherfucking time. Pinball is a game of kill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. I paid a perfect picture, bought a hoochie with a dizzy mind, just took your picture with that double O-P, dog, I'm fucking homeless, you can call Dad, they're going to the mall, show me that punch money. It's the Pinball Show, it's episode 130, we're your hosts, Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel. Oh, Zach, what's that Yankee Doodle candle I smell in the background? Oh, come on. You're going to throw me under the bus like everybody else on YouTube? No, the Disney people backed you. The Disney heads out there, we've got to love all the Disney people. what Dennis is referring to. I did a recent video on Straight Down the Middle. You've got to go check it out where I reviewed some candles. What is going on? People are like, dude, you really, not only have you jumped the shark, like you're so far gone. Somebody said, Zach, if you owe someone money, let us know. I think I saw that somebody said blink twice and you're in trouble. That's right.

medium confidence · Clarification during discussion of Tetris as potential pinball theme

  • Rolling Stones pinball machine was already made, suggesting potential for remakes of past licenses

    medium confidence · Mentioned in context of potential redo strategy like original Avengers

  • “Worth is really just more of a...judgment call of is there $1,000 worth of fun?”

    Dennis Creasel@ 29:06 — Philosophical take on product valuation in hobby markets

  • “I think it's interesting...the whole discussion about having a mode tied to a product...I think it's kind of cool. I can see the argument against.”

    Dennis Creasel@ 30:40 — Balanced commentary on exclusive content tied to physical purchases

    • Jersey Jack Pinball
    company
    American Pinballcompany
    Home Pincompany/media
    The Pinball Networkorganization
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Troll Huntgame
    Godzilla Pinballgame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Godfathergame
    Dunegame
    Barbie Pinballgame
    Tupac Shakurgame
    Green Daygame
    Slam Tilt Podcastmedia
    Eclectic Gamersmedia
  • ?

    community_signal: Analysis of how initial negative community reaction to Godzilla topper created pile-on effect that reversed after demonstration content released; broader observation about information cascades in niche hobbyist communities

    high · Dennis: 'You get a lot of groupthink in small niche, hobbyist, collectible type of communities...information comes out. Depending on how that information is initially presented, you'll see reactions one way or another'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern employing strategy of tying exclusive game modes to physical product purchases (Godzilla topper exclusive mode), creating incentive for hardware acquisition beyond aesthetic appeal

    medium · Dennis discusses both positives and criticism of mode exclusivity; notes this is ongoing trend seen 'for better or worse'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Stern appears to be actively acquiring or scouting music, film, and pop-culture licenses at industry expo; strategy suggests 3-5 new licensed titles potentially in pipeline for next 18-24 months

    medium · Gary Stern photos with 15+ IPs at WME/licensing expo; Dennis notes 'It wouldn't surprise me if at least one of these is not actually a license that they have' suggesting some are exploratory

  • $

    market_signal: Community divided on $1,000 Godzilla topper pricing; debate centers on value-for-money vs. secondary-market resale potential vs. aesthetic/functional value

    high · Ron Hallett Jr. noted 'not $1,000 worth of topper'; Dennis discusses pricing philosophy; ongoing tension between cost and perceived value in collector market

  • ?

    content_signal: Demonstration content from Zach Minney (video) and Joel Engelberth (stream) significantly shaped community perception of Godzilla topper; shows importance of content creator reviews and gameplay streams in pinball market

    high · Zach notes opinion shift occurred after his video and Joel's stream; credits better lighting/visual presentation in real conditions vs. Stern's promo trailer

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern criticized for poor initial marketing of Godzilla topper; static promo trailer did not showcase RGB lighting effects or mode integration, leading to negative community first impression

    high · Zach: 'Stern did [not] even bother to try and put it in a good light'; topper shown after list of unavailable accessories; community didn't see lighting/RGB until third-party demonstrations

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Discussion implies timing sensitivity for aging IP like Grateful Dead and Tupac—manufacturers need to lock licenses before performer aging or IP value erosion creates windows-of-opportunity constraints

    medium · Dennis: 'If we're thinking...what dad rock have they not done yet...they're already past the prime to do it' re: Grateful Dead; notes Tupac resonates with aging 90s collector demographic now entering prime purchase years

    • 2:25
    You're like a loan shark. I'm waiting for you to do the knock-off Glade scent things to plug in and be like, which one is the best? I'm trying to replace the current Pitchman in the marketplace. Damn, wow. Oh. But, yeah, I've been burning some candles lately. You know what happens to candles when it's really hot? I thought I was clever, and I was like, I don't burn, burn candles, but I'm going to open one up and put it in my truck, my work truck, just so, you know, it smells good in there. instead of like coil dust and everything, the flipping out truck. And I made a big-ass mess, Dennis, because I wasn't thinking. You don't have to burn wax for it to run. It was like liquid hot all over my floorboard. Now I smell Pirates of the Caribbean, my fucking feet.
    3:16
    Yarr. How have you been? What have you been up to? Oh, I'm fine. Busy, busy little bees. That's what we are, busy little bees. Why didn't Gladiator ever get a pinball machine? That's what that line's from. I would have never known that, but... That's what I told you. Are you not pinter-tained? Oh, yeah, there is. I remember someone didn't like, on Eclectic Gamers, the rumor-tained thing. Remember, they said they don't get it. And I'm like, well... They don't get it. It's like entertaining, but it's rumor-tained. It's simple. It's referenced all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean, that by now, surely. I think it just didn't amuse them was probably what they meant.
    3:58
    Maybe they just didn't get why one would think it was amusing. Most people seem to enjoy it, though. Or are indifferent and don't say anything. No, not in 2023. People say everything. But that wasn't my point. My point was Gladiator. It was an Academy Award winning movie. Ridley Scott, man. Full of action. Why no pinball machine? I mean, that was in that time when Stern was kind of going out on their own. CSI. Well, before that, I think. I don't even remember. Yeah, it was late 90s, wasn't it? Okay. Like late 90s, like 99-2000-ish was when it came out. High Roller Costino. All right. Yeah, that was a John Norris game. Oh, I see. Or the Candice ass. Or John Norris. We love John Norris. That's back when they allowed smoking in the building.
    4:45
    John wasn't a fan of being around smoke. Back in the good old days. You know, I've been watching a lot of Johnny Carson reruns. Well, I guess they're all good friends at this point But, man, Torsen He didn't give a shit He would just smoke a cigarette Blow it right in the guest's face Like, those were the days, weren't they? Well, you know, he was a kingmaker It's different now He'll be just like, oh, sorry Mr. Seth You're not going to give me what I want I'm going to go to Jimmy's show instead Yeah, he was the one that made you Made you a broken similar to the pinball show here in the pinball industry. What are we going to break today? We're going to break a lot of shit. Where's Craig? He's sulking.
    5:30
    You were really hard on him. Stuffing up, Buttercup. No. That's right. That's what I say. So he's MIA. He is gone. Poor, poor, poor Craig. Oh, someone tickled me. He's my desk. He's right here. Yeah, so Craig's gone. but we're going to be talking about a lot of stuff including Stern Pinball. I think Stern Pinball should do another original thing. They haven't done one in a long, long time and just call it the world of trolls because they love trolling their consumer base. I was going to warn you. There is an animated movie called Trolls so you've got to be careful. That would actually probably go over fairly well. I think so. They made a sequel, didn't they? Oh, they're on their fourth film or something. Oh, wow. And they all make a ton of money. I did see the first one. That's the only one, because my niece used to like it back in the day. Actually, really well done. The second I have not seen. Third I really haven't seen. And the fourth, I believe, is about to come out. It's not already out. They make a ton of money over there. It's a big IP. But no, not that troll. Not the trolls that pop up out of the play field of Medieval Madness, one of the deepest games ever. Right, Mike, from Home Pin?
    6:43
    We'll get to that. Oh, that's coming up. Oh, God. Didn't even want to cover it. I'm so excited. Oh, that's my favorite topic. Sorry, Stern. I do like talking about you, but my favorite topic is down under. But the king of trolls, Gary Stern, visiting the licensing expo this last week, sharing on social media, Stern Pinball, pictures of Gary Stern standing next to many, many intellectual properties. A lot of IPs, and maybe they're not trolling. Maybe they're just trolling. They're trolling. Okay. All right. Or maybe it's like market research. Him being there could very well be market research. Them posting the photos is trolling. Yeah. Let's talk about some of the titles because we have seen that this kind of stuff does sometimes end up being like some foreshadowing. Oh, it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of these is not actually a license that they have and that they've buried it. And then, you know, five years from now we'll be going back, I remember back in the day, Zach, when Little Lot Saw and Rat Pack was in there. And there you go. It will not be Rat Pack. If it's Rat Pack, I will stop podcasting. Why? You don't like the Rat Pack? No, I just don't want him to pick that. You don't want to be crooned when you're playing?
    7:54
    I'm just saying. They won't make any money. What about Barbie? He was posted next to a Barbie. It's a really hot title right now. A lot of cultural changes within that Mattel brand. They've got that movie that made there be a shortage of pink paint because they bought it off. Yeah. Yeah, Barbie might. I think Barbie works. It could work. I don't know enough about it to say, like, how to make it work. Play dumb. Okay. Sure, you don't know enough about it. Well, like, I don't know what you do with modes.
    8:26
    My sister didn't have the dream house. I think she had the car, though. When we were kids, we had the camper.
    8:33
    Because we had it. Look, here's the thing, because it was, for those that, no one cares about this. Barbie's dream ranch. My only sibling is my sister, and she was a year younger. She's a year younger than me. So when we were growing up and we wanted to play, of course, we had different views on what to play. So we'd have to share. So I'd have to play Barbie, and then she would play G.I. Joe. I got you. Or my G.I. Joe could ride in the car. I think she had the car. But Barbies were way bigger than G.I. Joe, so it was kind of like this giant stomping this little soldier. It's reached this nostalgic level of, what do you call it? call it iconic? Yeah, well, it's like in the zeitgeist. Or even if you didn't play with Barbie, it's just so iconic. It is. I almost think that Barbie, because I don't remember if there was a cartoon or anything. I've mentioned this with American Pinball and Hot Wheels. My problem with Hot Wheels is because I see where American Pinball thought this is a great idea. This is a really well-known license. It probably didn't cost them a lot of money, but everyone knows Hot Wheels. The problem is, you know, weird YouTube cartoon show that only modern kids know aside, there's no story to it. So, like, there's nothing. The license doesn't give you any structure to hang your hat on other than here are these cool looking cars. Right. And I wonder if Barbie's kind of in the same way, whereas something like G.I. Joe had the cartoon. So if it was just the toys, it would probably suffer because you can hang your hat on, oh, we're going to fight Cobra Commander and do all that. I always wondered if Barbie would work best, though, in like an 80s pack. Like a whole thing, like Barbie and Care Bears and Cabbage Patch and just blend it all together. I still think it, we got a Foo Fighters. I mean, I think it holds its own. But Foo Fighters is band pinned. I know, but it's still a theme that I wouldn't just jump right on. Now, if you want to do Aqua and it's all themed around Barbie Girl, that would probably work. Oh, boy. See, now I've got to play this stupid music.
    10:42
    I think that Barbie works because, I mean, even Barbie and Kid made a cameo in the Toy Story franchise with this new Margot Robbie movie coming out. We've got that, and that looks like it's going to be well done. I think Barbie still holds up. It's very controversial, you know, Barbie throughout the years. I think it holds up. What about Tupac?
    11:07
    It's like you're with the wheat scrub, looking for some love, and all your clubs. I see you standing like you want it. Well, maybe if you got a better point, let the liquor help you get a bonus. I'm still with Tupac Shakur with some West Coast rep. I think that works, too. Yeah, it's old enough that I think it would resonate. And I think a lot of people would really, kind of like how Barbie, in a lot of ways, I think would be appreciated because it's very female-centric. You know, most of the Barbie figures are women. And Tupac is a genre of music that just doesn't really represent it in pinball. And I think a lot of people would fight for that reason alone. Yeah. And especially as the 90s kids, such as myself, are coming into middle age and money and stuff like that, we can afford stuff, you're going to see them start to commercialize products, even around odd themes like gangster rap of Tupac. I mean, look, they've commercialized Snoop Dogg to the point that I think even our grandmothers would know who Snoop Dogg is. Yeah. I mean, my first thing when I think of him now is him hanging out with Martha Stewart.
    12:15
    It's a different world than we used to think of with Snoop Dogg. Speaking of, did you see Martha Stewart on the cover of Sports Illustrated Twins? No, I did not. Oh, shit.
    12:28
    Martha. I think she's rocking 81 and looks damn fine still. First guy. But yeah, Tupac, I think, works in such a weird way. But I think it works. How do you commercialize something so aggressive? I think the music is good enough you can do it. Tetris? This is one I don't get. No, it would be terrible. It's got a new film, right? It's got... Does it? Yeah, they had a... It was Amazon or Netflix that had a film. Tetris had a film. Oh, it's like a... Like, it's how it originated from Russia. Okay, I did hear about that. I haven't seen it. Yeah, it's like a documentary, though. That's not like a real film. Oh. No, no, it was... Sorry, documentary. I didn't mean it like that. It was like... It wasn't a documentary. It was... What? Yeah, it was like the whole pinball-esque type of film.
    13:20
    Where it's almost like a... The making of? It was an acting... No, it was an acting movie. It's not like in a... Look, here's what I mean. It's not like when they took the Hasbro game Battleship and then made the movie Battleship. It's not like the long Tetris is like, I'm the superior one. You better be back and wait for me. Okay, this would be like, I don't care. Tetris doesn't work. I'm done with this discussion. Tetris doesn't work in pinball. It doesn't make sense. It's got no story. What are you going to do? It's going to be a timed mode pinball machine, which has never worked. Everyone hates those. No. Right now, Scott Denisey is planning his execution of Electronica.
    13:58
    Warner Music Experience. We had Gary Stern standing by a WME banner, and around him were different musical acts, such as Joy Division, Frank Sinatra, The Grateful Dead, The Rat Pack, Gorillaz, one of your favorites, Green Day, Korn, Lizzo, and others that I couldn't identify. Those work? Some of these would work. Some of these would not be good. You think Gorillaz works here?
    14:26
    Yeah, but it wouldn't be the best pick. They've been around a long time. I mean, Gorillaz's lead has been doing this really, I think, since the 90s. He's my age. I mean, he's been at it a really long time. But Green Day would be a better pick by far. Green Day. I could get behind some Green Day. That'd be awesome. I think there are a lot of deadheads out there. I think the Grateful Dead would be something especially for, they get a watch because they go any longer, they're going to miss that window for the deadheads. That's the thing. It's a, I mean, like, if we're thinking, what dad rock have they not done yet? I wouldn't, Grateful Dead's good, but, like, I mean, I think Heart would make more sense, or Fleetwood Mac would be better than doing Grateful Dead. but I think they're already past the prime to do it. But I think it would sell stronger than Gorillaz would. I don't know enough about Joy Division. I don't know Joy Division. I don't know what that is. Yeah, Frank Sinatra, I think... Too old. Too old to begin the training. No, I think that it's classic enough that it works. It's going to be like Godfather with J.J.P. where you're kind of sitting there going, well, they've done it, but is it really worth involved? You know what? Give me a Frank Sinatra. theme over The Godfather for pinball. Honestly. I mean, honestly, you are probably correct, but I still just don't... It's like, of all the things you could pick from, I just don't think that musical style works for pinball. What about Korn? I don't think it's ready yet.
    16:13
    It still needs a little bit more nostalgia for everyone to accept it. Yeah. Because it wasn't... I'm going to agree with you on that.
    16:23
    It's the same for me with Lizzo. Is she too new? I just took a DNA test, turns out I'm 100% that bitch. Even when I'm crying crazy, yeah, I got four problems, that's a human in me. Bling bling, then I saw them, that's a goddess in me. You could have had a bad bitch, not committal. She's really new, but she has created a big scene.
    16:48
    Yeah, but we're going to go with really new. You almost have to have that in, you have to have that ready to release this year. you can't secure it now and then wait another year and a half I mean she might if her career has a longer tail it could end up being a really good one but you know it's sort of like if we're thinking of more modern artists you'd think something like an Adele would probably just have more tails out right yeah Taylor
    17:25
    It's a song but never in the mirror It must be frosting Always moving for the end To the end of the road Or what Billy Eilish would do. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. So, yeah, there's a lot of music there. What about Dune?
    17:51
    Oh, that would be great. Yeah, you'd love that. In fact, if you want me to guess out of this entire list what they might actually have, because I told you I thought they had at least one, it's Dune. Really? Yes. Huh.
    18:03
    Does the first film become that big? I mean, I don't know how well that first part of that film did. It was a miniseries. It was a film.
    18:12
    It's a film, but they've split it into two parts, and the second part's going to be coming out this year.
    18:17
    That's my concern, though. If they've read the book, they know exactly what's going to happen, so they don't need to have... Do they go beyond Part 2 Dune? No, no, no, no, no. There's no other idea that they can use in that Dune? Oh, there is. Okay. There's a whole series of books. I've read all of them now, and they've been Chapter House, the last one. I'm still working on it. But there is the first book of Dune, which is what the two movies are covering, the two parts of the movie that's coming out now. That is the hero's journey. that's the it's the traditional kind of action sci-fi story dune gets weird after book one like really weird so maybe different uh so you could in theory do the first three books but dune as a book is solid enough you have a whole pen right there there's no reason to go beyond it that's it it's self-contained because frank herbert didn't know he was going to be able to get more books published until after dune did as well as it did all right what about gary stern was posted up by Godzilla, but on the other side of Godzilla is the theme that I think that they would take a swing at, and that is King Kong.
    19:25
    I can see it. Look how great Godzilla turned out. I think now, and think about this, listener, the history that King Kong, remember the prototype had with, what was it, Data East? Still within that stern circle of companies in the past. going retro with King Kong, I think that makes a ton of sense. Especially because they're going to sell so many Godzilla pinball machines, they're probably thinking to themselves, just like everybody else with a hit in film or music or anything, how do we follow this up with a sequel to make just as much, if not more money? And we do that by lumping it and pairing it with something like a King Kong. Now, I know the advertisements from which Gary was standing in front of with likely the Thune franchise, Godzilla vs. King Kong kind of thing. But I still think King Kong makes a lot of classic sense.
    20:20
    League of Legends? I've never actually played League. It's popular, I guess. The game has legs on it in the sense that it's been big for a really long time for the niche that it is. I don't think it's the right game to do because there are other, I think, more approachable. It's a big strategy game. So it's not like you're doing a Call of Duty makes more sense in my mind to League, especially because I think a lot of the League audiences is actually international. So I'm not sure that that's going to translate as well into pinball sales as something that's more America, like a Halo or God of War or something like that. Sure. What is it, Fallout? Sure, Fallout. Bethesda property, yeah. I just think visually something like a Fallout would be cool. in pinball yeah no i love fallout it's a fun world because it's post-apocalyptic but in a like a cheery 50s way yeah okay so it's uh you could do you could do a lot of interesting things with it since i don't know how you translate the game mechanics uh like that one might take a little bit of thought because you i think you feel like you need to implement the vat system some way into pinball which is like a pause system whereas with a shooter a more traditional shooter like call of Duty or Halo, you could go around being like, oh yeah, I gotta fight the Covenant, I'm gonna gather up my, I gotta get my sticky grenades, I gotta get the different weapons.
    21:43
    And we've seen things like that with other games, so they could build on that. And Rainbow Bright. Okay, the top of the doll. I don't think, I don't remember a Rainbow Bright in the house. Yeah, I don't. We weren't Rainbow. We had Care Bears around, but we didn't have Rainbow Bright. Speaking of, in the periphery, so what I did is I was like, Well, wait a minute. The Sterns, clever. What they could do is make sure that they're showing off a picture of, you know, the Golden Girls. But in the background, maybe they're like, see, clues are everywhere. In the periphery, here are some of the IPs that were in these pictures. One being Netflix's and Tim Burton's Wednesday from the Addams Family franchise. Wednesday. I think the show did well. I didn't see it. It did very well. Care Bears were in the background of a show. Care Bears is a big nostalgia. And they did have a cartoon, so there's actually story stuff. They had fantastic films. I still... Oh, man. I lean on those. We had the Care Bear books. We had Care Bears. I remember the cartoons. The Money Maker Machine. The Rolling Stones, which they've made a pin. But, hey, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them redoing something as big as the Rolling Stones. My answer wants to be, no, don't do it. You've already done it. But kind of like how we need redemption for our original Avengers game. Never only some of the most hated Stern Pinball games they ever made. It is. They might want to fix the mistakes of the past. Yeah, maybe they go back and make a big buck hunter reloaded. Just like the... Who does that sell to? I don't get it.
    23:22
    Maybe they can replace Mick on a stick with Jagger on a ladder or something. I want to put him on a plume. A fair Godzilla topper plume. Doing his rooster shred? Yeah. Yes.
    23:37
    You have to launch the ball up, and as the ball goes up, each of the 21 RGBs lights up a little more. People are going to show off all of their replaced Godzilla figures with Mick Jagger. And then Sesame Street was the last one, which I think would do very well as well. Yep, big nostalgia for it. Now, you had to bring up the Godzilla topper, so let's do it. Oh, God, let's not spend a lot of time on it. We don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but I just, you know, push comes to shove. I'm not going to tell the listeners out there that poo-pooed me. I'm not going to tell them I told you so. I wouldn't do that. You know, I'm more of a humble man than that. Plus, I can't fight back anymore because I lose every time. I'm a scarebro waiting for plucking. I don't know what I said.
    24:28
    I just spammed and I take it. But the Godzilla topper came out. You all shit a brick and you guys were like, this is blasphemy. I hate this. Not only do I hate the Godzilla topper, I hate its price of $1,000. Not only do I hate that, I hate Stern Pinball. And speaking of Stern Pinball, there's nothing more that I hate than Zack Many and flipping out Pinball. Buy, buy, buy! People were just downright angered. They sharpened their pitchforks and everything. And, you know, right? At least so. They didn't have a lot to go off of And then I filmed it real quick We got them in I filmed it real quick Threw it up there just so people could see What the hell the damn thing did And then following that Joel Engelberth was flipping out Pinball streaming Did a stream of not only it But shout out and thank you to Sturm Pinball and Keith Elwin And Rick Nagel For giving Joel the beta code Of the Topper exclusive mode I forgot what it was Like a timed attack mode Wizard mode So he streamed that. We sold a lot of them before. But after the video and the stream, everybody's opinion changed very quickly. Oh, well, it's not that bad. It's still not worth $1,000. But, you know, you heard the brakes start screeching.
    25:41
    Did you see that? Did you feel that turnaround in an industry, Dennis? I mean, I did note that a lot of people were responding that the topper did look a lot better than the impressions they got of it from the Stern footage. But on the flip side, there's no Craig Bobby here admitting that he was wrong. So I don't know. Where's Craig? It was interesting to see, and maybe I'm just selfishly more interested in this kind of marketing and stuff, that how much can shape the perception of a product? Whether it is a launch or whether it is more information that comes out or different modes, you get a lot of groupthink in small niche, hobbyist, collectible type of communities, right? You would agree with that. But it's interesting to see the shifting, the tides, the trends, and the falls of even the thoughts behind a newly released product. I find this is kind of generally true. I kind of think of it as internet think. Okay. And maybe it's more with products than anything, but there's always this sort of, you know, information comes out. Depending on how that information is initially presented, you'll see reactions one way or another. And then as more information comes out, people's opinions that are very knee-jerk at first are going to solidify. And sometimes they'll solidify to the first reaction, and sometimes they don't. So it's – and we see it a lot here because I think the information comes out and people immediately kind of latch on to something. And then there's often a pile on that you'll see as well as other people. Yeah, because people remember to talk about it. People think they're cute. They think they're a little mean. They think they're a little juke. Well, that's a part of it. And, you know, that's actually, you know, something that kind of came up with the soon-to-be-discussed topic with Dr. John when he interviewed Mike with HomePen about kind of that. And, you know, it just seems like people all latch on to the same sort of thing. So you do see a lot of that in all sorts of hobbies. So that's not too surprising. I also don't think it's too surprising, though, that when you release something like Stern did and you don even bother to try and put it in a good light like Stern did Literally Yeah I mean that was they chose basically not to market it and so in the vacuum of that people made judgment calls basically based off of essentially static footage Like, they didn't see the lighting effects and stuff, and it is what it is. All that said, you know, likewise, I don't think you've seen a lot of people who have complained about the price being the price. I heard Slam Tilt Podcast, for example. I know Ron Hallett Jr. on that show got the topper, but he also noted it's not $1,000 worth of topper. Sure.
    28:27
    Sure. It's hard to find something in pinball and save for it. It's interesting. But, you know, it's like that brings up a question of what is worth. So worth, you know, is it – if it's not worth it to you, you wouldn't buy it in theory unless you had to. You wouldn't buy it. So worth could mean saying, well, the price is above what the cost is of all the components that are in it. But that would always be true because no one would make any money if the components were more than what they sold the end product for. So it's usually not that. And the other thing would be, well, worth it could be seen as could I get the money back if I had to sell it? And probably, or at least close. So, you know, worth is really just more of a, to me, it's that judgment call of is there $1,000 worth of fun? I'm using fun really loosely, like fun from an aesthetic element standpoint. Oh, steal your finger quotation. Right. Yeah, yeah. So that's really what it comes down to. So, yeah, there are plenty of people that will be like, an extra mode and a non-mobile topper is not worth $1,000, but would also acknowledge it looks way better than they thought it would look from the Stern promo trailer that stuck it in after a whole bunch of accessories that you can't even buy anymore. I was mixed on whenever we seen it in that promo and even static pictures of it. I was like, okay, I'm going to get behind it because I like all the toppers, especially OEM toppers.
    29:47
    I wonder what, I think it'll be cool. It looks pretty cool, a thousand. And then, yeah, installed it and seen the integration and the use of the RGB and the shadowing effect onto the wall. By the way, some of the people out there, what is it, Canadians? Somebody's ripping on me saying, oh, and Zach was trying to sell that as a feature, displaying the shadow up on it. I'm like, what the fuck? It was. I'm reading it from the press release. Like, don't pin that on me. That was a feature. It wasn't like a Led Zeppelin middle ramp from upper right flipper feature, but it was a feature. I didn't create that. But it was a good feature. But, no, it looked cool in person. The RGB integration is damn cool. They have new code out now that opens up that mode, which brings up another topic. And, again, you said you don't want to get into too much about toppers. I don't either. We've already spent too much time on it. But still, the whole discussion about having a mode tied to a product, I think we continue to see this, for better or worse. I think it's interesting. I kind of like the idea of some exclusivity of, you know, purchasing a product and not only getting that product but getting something else attached to a code aspect of your game. I think it's kind of cool. I can see the argument against. And the other thing I wanted to clear up is I've seen a lot of confusion on the interwebs About people saying Well, wait a minute You accessing that mode is already in the game Because everybody's like, are we going to get that mode? Is it going to come later in the Insider Connected? And everybody's like, oh no, we already get this mode If you get to the end of the game No, no, no I don't think it's the same mode This is a special timed portion of said mode So it's different. It is very similar, but it is different as well. It's a standalone mode. I don't care if it's playing exactly through a mode that was in the game or not. Like, I just don't. I don't care. It's separate and standalone. Yeah. Because it lets you access something to just play that one something. So it's different. My point is you cannot access that. You can't do this all the time where there will be boss rush modes in games. and be like, well, they're the same bosses as in the game. Yeah, but you don't normally fight them all back to back to back. And that's how the mode works. I don't feel strongly on that. I broadly would lump myself in the category of, yeah, I'm not a big fan. They're getting better and better. This is a gold mania, Dennis. This purchase of DLC sort of stuff, but it doesn't necessarily, at least the way they've done it so far, doesn't impact me in the sense that they aren't giving people with the topper a different core game. So it's for add-ons. Yes. Now, where do I think they'll go with it? If they keep it like that and exploit the strategy more, it would be to do things like, say, Topper gives you co-op mode. Hmm. Wow. That's a strong one there. You hearing that, Stern Pimble? I didn't think of that. Well, yeah. Wow. Hey, that's one's free, Stern. You can make a fork. You just have to actually want to build the toppers. You could have just put the plume up there and tied it to a co-op mode until... Yeah. Absolutely. But why is that? I think they feel better by tying it to a physical product. Sure. Well, it avoids the ease of hacking and, you know, making a pat, you know, people uploading the code. Yeah, only certain people can if you have a subscription, you know, yeah. Makes it a little harder. Makes it harder for people to quote-unquote steal the software for free. They have a system, though, in Insider Connected that would work so well with downloadable content like that. Oh, sure. I think eventually that's probably what they'll do is they'll recognize, why leave money on the table requiring you to buy a $1,000 topper to get the mode when there would be plenty of people that would pay $50 to buy the mode and either don't want the topper or you want to sell more than just the topper. Or, in the case of Stern, who just seemed to really dislike making toppers, get out of that part entirely and just be like, we're just going to sell code. It's easier for us. We have our programmers. They make the code. We put it on Insider Connected, and we don't have to worry about the manufacturing side of it. No. I'd rather have the topper. Well, they may still do. They might go back to doing the flat plastics for you. Don't worry. Okay. That works at minimum. That's fine. So it's a Godzilla topper. All kinds of conversation there. As I said, there was new code for Godzilla version 1.07 to fix 1.06, the initial release for that topper mode. So that's out there. And, geez louise, James Bond's recent code update of version 0.92 has created a movement in the industry. Apparently. I've not played this code, but apparently there was a lot. It was a bulk, goofy update for James Bond. Have you played the updated 0.92? No. No, it hadn't come out yet the last time I played Bond, which was earlier this month. It gives me a lot of hope because I have said and I've put my neck out there and said that I still think James Bond will end up being a great seller or a great game in general, very deep, but it's going to take some time as a Batman 66 kind of did. And now at version 0.92, if people are really turning on this and saying, wait a minute, this is something to pay close attention to. If they're doing that on 0.92, I can only imagine what it will be like at V1.0. We shall have to wait and sulk. You're sulking, Craig. Stern Pinball Production Updates. Really quickly as an update, Iron Maiden Premiums and Foo Fighters Premiums have started shipping. Yay!
    35:37
    Finally. Finally, Dennis. I don't have to get so many emails about Foo Fighters Premium. So many emails. They were getting so angry. Yes, so much anger. Rightfully so. We told them it was going to be ready a month ago, and here we are. So we haven't got all of our allotment. This is the April-May run of Foo Fighters Premium. There's a parts issue.
    36:03
    So they're finally starting to ship those. And if we turn around, there's going to be another run of Foo Fighters Pro and Premiums in July. So hopefully they continue with the parts so they can hit that schedule. But Iron Maiden Premiums, we know that the pros, Iron Maiden Pro, James Bond Premium, Jurassic Park Premium, Godzilla Pros, They've been shipping over the last week or two since our last episode. A lot of titles. But Iron Maiden premiums are now shipping. People have been waiting for that one, Dennis. Yeah. About a year. I mean, it came out years ago. Do they make it again next year? I'm feeling like it's almost time to go ahead and retire that license. How do you think? It's been in production a really long time. It has. But has so, you know, things like Deadpool and things. Yeah, well, I think Deadpool probably needs retired, too, after this year.
    36:52
    He's going to break through that fourth wall. Now, in July, like I said before, nothing changed here. We should start seeing some Godzilla premiums next month, followed by some Avengers Pro and premiums, and those Foo Fighters Pro and premiums throughout the month. August, we're going to see that Jurassic Park Pro run. And then also in August, The Move. Talked about that shutting down for a couple weeks. September being open for a new Cornerstone. The rumor is Venom by Brian Eddy, Zombie Eddy, and Dwight Sullivan. We'll see if that ends up being true. And then we teased you on the last TPS, and exclusively for the Pinball Show subscribers, they got additional info on the rest of the year that you're going to get now. Let's give it to them, Dennis. Here's the deal. Deadpool-prone premiums, I think we talked about it, but that has bumped back to October now. It was bumped up to August from December, now back to October. But in addition to that, also in October now, there's going to be an additional run of Foo Fighters Pro and Premiums. Okay, another run. That's going to help out a lot because those are highly backordered. Can you believe, though, for flipping out Pinball? I don't think this is too much info to give, nor do I think anybody really gives a shit. But I still, Foo Fighters Premium has been just a killer, killer sales game. My backorders are still barely more on Godzilla Premium than Foo Fighters Premium. I can't believe it. But October's going to see a Foo Fighters Pro and Premium run. Keep in mind, it's not going to be as large a run. This is kind of like a bonus run. So we're not going to see just a little baby run. It's a side salad of runs. It's a squirt of a run, right? Not full flow, just a squirt. But we're going to see some in October. Here's some more news. Mandalorian Pro and Premium, those were slated for December, baby, right before the holiday. Give them some Mandalorian as well as Star Wars Pro Premium. We've got to have that Lucas IP right there in December to make some money. They always like to do for the holiday runs. Remember, that was always one of the fan versions.
    38:50
    They always do that. So Mandalorian Pro, Mandalorian Premium, Star Wars Pro, Star Wars Premium. That title is still being made. They were slated for December, but all four of those have now been moved out of 2023 in its entirety without an ETA on when they're going to be built again. Are they going to be rushed, or are they going to be built? Do it. There it is. I am Stunt Pinball. Wait a minute, so they're bombing them out of the whole year? What? Okay. It's treason then. Yes.
    39:24
    Still scheduled for December, though, is James Bond Pro and Pre. But likely not a large build. again, a bit of a squirt of a build. Okay, so that leads to confusion for a lot of people listening to the show except for the people who exclusively heard it last two weeks ago. Let's dig a little deeper then. Okay, so we've had games bumped from December, as of right now, just into 2024 at some point. And then we had December a small little squirt of a run. And then in October they told us Foo Fighters a small little squirt of a run. Well, wait a minute. What the hell is going on? So a little bit in October, a little bit in December, and now absolutely nothing. Sitting in November? What does that mean, dude? I know you keep thinking that's the new game. I keep thinking it's the September cornerstone, and they have to block time to build more of it. They're not going to block September, October, November, and December. Like, no. They'll probably hash in, fill in some blanks there, and put in some more Godzilla and Foo premiums, because there's still not going to be enough. I'm going to tell you, I'm pretty confident in my suggestion. We're going to see another new product in November. A vault? And by new, maybe we see a vault-y version. Tron? So, newish vaulted version. I don't know. Maybe we see a studio run. Spider-Man vault with Spider-Verse art? Oh, into the Spider-Verse. Now, I think Travis Meary's wrong, though. Did you hear him say, like, one of the best five titles of all time or money made? I'm like, what? Wait. Okay. Go slow down there. I don't remember that part. Yeah, he said something about it would be like the top five best-selling Stern theme. What, Spider-Man? Into the Spider-Verse. Oh, yeah, it would be really strong. It would be pretty strong. We're talking top, like, we're talking Star Wars. I mean, it's so popular. Kids love it because it's got Spider-Man in it. The theming is deep, but, you know, it really comes down to how well the game is designed. I don't think the theme alone moves it into the top five. Nor do I think because there has been iterations of that theme before, including a comic book version, it would make that big of a much more of a ripple for a new game. The thing is, as a vault, you could have a, you could go back and you could argue, you could have the old James Jameson call-outs from the first game because of the whole multiverse thing of the Spider-Verse. And that's what people hate about the comic version. It lets you have the art in the new Spider-Verse. It's super cool. We don't need it. And it's going to be all like, you may have left Steve Ritchie, but we can still exploit your work. That's right. It's like a threefer. I don't think... It's one more than a twofer. I don't think the industry is calling for a vault of that title. Probably not. But I was just trying to make it work. We could... Look, we could... They could Voltron and call it into the Spider-Verse.
    42:24
    The way all of this Metaverse shit's going, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I think we're going to get something in November. It could be a Kapow title as well.
    42:33
    Maybe that's why they're getting rid of stuff in December. They know it's going to be a knockout hit.
    42:39
    Okay, I could see a Kapow title. Sure. I don't think it's going to be a Cornerstone because we typically get our Cornerstones in January. So I don't think it's going to be a Cornerstone. I don't think they're caught up yet, if you will. Maybe they have to vault Metallica again. That may do okay. I could see that doing decent. Maybe they can vault Ghostbusters again so they can pay for an entire vacation because that game would sell. Or what about Game of Thrones? A lot of people love Game of Thrones. They do, but I think the... You don't think there's enough potential sales to be worth it? Yeah, I think the theme might be cheaper right now to re-license, but I don't think there's relevancy for it. They'd be able to include like a free three months of HBO Go with every Game of Thrones. They call it Max now. Oh, Max. Sorry, I'm abstract because I've abandoned them like everyone else did. And speaking of subscriptions, you guys had some good stuff two weeks ago. People are just now hearing it. You're going to hear something fresh as well, and it's about Stern Pinball Production Updates. It's the accessories update. We've just received as dealers some new information about when a lot of these toppers are going to be made. When are we going to get reruns of them? What about maybe some official discontinuation of some of the accessories line? Sometimes having an answer is the answer you need. And sometimes once you find out that something's going to be officially discontinued, the price goes up on it. So you snag it up real quick from wherever you can find it. You can hear all of this about when they're making the rest toppers again, all the way into maybe some info on not one, two, three, four, but five, maybe six more toppers, information about production on that. If you sign up to the Patreon TPS Club, the membership. So go to patreon.com slash the pinball show and sign up. The minimum is $10 to join the club. You get all of this exclusive information we pump out for you, as well as an invite to the private Discord that we have a lot of fun in. Jump up to the $25 level, and you get some swag. You get to hang out every month on our live video feed and chat, some juicy information that always happens in there. We kick back, have a drink, and chit-chat. That's coming up as well. We've got to remind people. You also get to pick a topic for an episode or jump up to the $100 a month. Thank you to all of those that do that. the Screaming Goat Club, where not only do you get all that stuff, but you get your own official nickname from Dennis and I. Usually Dennis rolls his eyes and shakes his head, and I give it, and then I make him laugh every now and then from the OEM Stern Shaker Motor. But you get your own moniker and a thank you on every one of our episodes, as well as a pinball polo shirt. Oh, that's good stuff there. And you get to join us on a TPS episode and have your own one-on-one private conversation and chat channel with Dennis and I. Speaking of, remind me, I'm going to give them something this week that's going to knock their socks off. So all you've got to do is go to patreon.com slash the pinball show and sign up today. Thank you.
    45:52
    They don't have to sign up for anything to be a fan of. GTF, it's back. The American pinball. Oh, no. No. No, not GTF. Did you know that American pinball is now shipping some tanks out? From space, space, space. Hunt, hunt, hunt. Oh, no. When did that? No, I apologize. It's a penny-verse. There's so much space going. I mean, we got that. We got the aliens and food fighters. You know what, Dennis? We're going to create our own homebrew pinball machine that is the penny-verse, and it pulls in all of the Punny Factory. It pulls in Space Hunt, GTF, and it's all in one pinball machine.
    46:30
    American Pinball's shipping tanks. We just got a notification. It was a little hard on AP last episode, and it was notified by Dave Fix himself, and said, hey, we got some of your LE orders for GTF headed your way. Thank you, American Pinball. Yay. And I think they're the ones we shipped in the 20s, 30s or so. So they're starting to roll out. I still don't know. We have deluxe in order. We didn't get any deluxes yet. But some people are getting a couple deluxes here and there. But I find it interesting that they are shipping out games. Well, that's good news. And many of you have seen by now the little promo that I have done showcasing a little GTF LE. The tank has tracked its way into my game room, question mark. Stick around for future episodes of the pinball show to hear my take and more discussion on American pinballs. G. T. F. Exclamation. Lunchbox. I didn't get the lunchbox. Oh, no. That was the signature. I don't know when those were shipping. Or is it the signature edition? I don't know what it's called. National Lunchbox is separate? Oh, yeah, they are. I didn't order any. Because it doesn't come with a bonus. You are the accessory king. No. Not a single lunchbox. I stand strong.
    47:55
    No. The margins on it were a joke. It's like, really, guys? No, thank you. Jersey Jack Pinball is in the news in a certain way. I was listening to Kaneda. He was doing something. I don't know if it's podcast, but said that live stream said that at the licensing expo, Jack Winery was telling people that JJP does not have the Harry Potter license.
    48:19
    The fuck is this? So that does not deter me at all, Dennis. I still think that they do. And I think that because it's going to be a couple years, of course, Jack would say that they don't have it. Or how about this? Plot twist. They have the Harry Potter 4 license.
    48:42
    Technically different? Question mark. And it would be the most JJP thing to do. Oh, man. Hey, and Harry Potter 4, though, that one was like one of the good ones. You know what I thought about that? It wouldn't be a bad one. What if, you know, it makes sense, what if Joe Kamenkow threw it out there because somebody was about to release information that Kapow actually secured the license? So he jumped ahead of it in a cunning, sly, fox-a-little-way, silver foxy, jumped in front of it and said, hey, just want to let you all know, J.J.P. has a license. We fucked up. We didn't get it. That sucks for us. throws everybody off the sniff, and it doesn't benefit their competitor, JJP, at all, besides making people more upset with them for not getting it, only to reveal that Stern Pinball had it the whole time. Huh?
    49:32
    Uh, it's, I get, no. Makes more sense to do that publicly on social media than to throw some other company under the bus. Except why would you, so in the end you get to be a liar. But the liar with Harry Potter.
    49:49
    Yeah, but I mean, it's going to sell no matter. I don't see the strategic reason in doing it. Okay. I'll put it that way. This is the Pennyverse. I was just trying to throw in alternate realities. I mean, this conspiracy theory mindset is interesting, but I find this a bit of a reach to think that he would go out and lie for the reasons, at least, that you've outlined. Do you think, I don't think I'd be, would I be Doctor Strange in the Pennyverse? What character would you be in the Pennyverse? What superhero?
    50:21
    You seem like, hmm, you might seem Doctor Strange-ish. I don't know about that. It's all, because he's all like, let's do magic, and he waves his hands in circles a lot, which that's not a gesture I do. Your Deadpool level of witty. You're intelligent like Professor Xavier. Yeah, but I don't. You know what? I'm going to give you, I think you'd be Wolverine. I really do. One of the most popular superheroes. Spicy. Clever. Witty. I'd have to grow my sideburns out a bit more to pull off that look. I think you would be. I'm trying to think who I would be.
    51:01
    You'd be that guy in the chair who ups Spider-Man out, his buddy. Gee, thanks. The roommate? Yeah. The guy in the chair. That's what he calls himself. I'm the guy in the chair. I think I would be my favorite superhero, which is Star-Lord. I think I'm Star-Lord. Oh, Star-Lord. He's so boring. What? Yeah. I'm just like, I'm Chris Pratt playing Chris Pratt. He's like a demigod. No, he just goes around with his double little laser blasters and a little red jacket listening to cassette. His dad was a planet, Dennis. His dad was cool. He ain't a dad. He's really disappointing.
    51:39
    Why did you be Rocket? Not Rocket Raccoon. cartoon. Hell no. Because you get all upset about everything, so you're like him. Oh, you're great. And you know.
    51:51
    Right into the pinball show at gmail.com. Let us know. What's the one Merle? The Merle thing, the guy with the yaka arrow. Wee!
    51:59
    Yaka arrow. Bubbly bobo. We've got to be exactly bubbly bobo. Let us know. Bubbly bobo. Oh, I forget how much I... That's my favorite thing Stern ever did was... The way you say it, though, it sounds like your Randy Newman impression.
    52:23
    A bubbly bow in an apple. You got a bubbly bow. Got a bubbly bow. When you're bubbly, you need a bow.
    52:37
    You know what? This episode is so trash. This is the Pennyverse. Right now, the guy that owns Pinball Adventures is just rapidly with his pen and just writing notes down. Oh, my God. They're weaving gold. Tammy, give me another quill.
    53:00
    A quill. I like that. I'm feeling good. Someone in Pinball actually is writing stuff out with a quill. I love it. An old-style calligraphy. Yeah, yeah. They're dipping it in. Dipping in the whole ink well. The blood of pinball players. The tears of pinball players. All right. Emails. I want to hear who all the podcast and media people in pinball are when it comes to superheroes. The Marvel Universe. DC's just still not good enough yet.
    53:30
    Even when Marvel is failing right now. What would Nordman be if not for the DC Universe? There he is. You've turned to a company that used to be bankrupt. Marvel was nothing. But now, the House of Maps has controlled it.
    53:47
    Tammy! A whole box of quills! Tammy, get rid of those quills. You're going to get bird flu. I don't want you to die from H5N1. Be careful.
    54:01
    Bye, GGF. Don't worry about the margins on my lunchbox. It opens up and the thermos is a ramp. Did you see the flash yet? No, I have not. Okay. I haven't either.
    54:18
    Okay, that was a great conversation. I'm glad you initiated it. Let's go ahead and move on. Let's move along. The WB series or CW, I don't know. Why would you go with CW? Watch us on the next show. We thought our whole film franchise surrounded by a CW series would be a great idea.
    54:41
    God, so stupid. Didn't James Gunn go over there? Come on, James. Jersey Jack Pinballs, they are shipping overseas Godfather CE games as we speak. Look for their next game to make its debut, Q4 of this year. I said that almost like it's a fact. I don't know that to be a fact. I think they'll try for it. It's more of a feeling than anything. No, I think you're right. I think they will reveal this year at some point. I'm almost assuredly in Q4 if it happens. Do you think they try to beat that if Stern has a cornerstone in January? Do you think they try to beat that or come after that? Because last time they allowed Foo Fighters to come out first. I don't think they'll pick their release time based off of Stern just like I don't think they did this time I think it's going to be more about I think they're going to do what they've done the last couple of times and want to have a number of games already built and that's going to be the main motivator so if they're going to be ready to ship out some LEs immediately so people can hold their tiny dancers then that what they do I just pictured me holding the Carissa clone
    55:53
    As he sang to me, I looked down and he looked up. Call me Cash, my time to dance. You know how confusing that T-shirt is to my family that aren't into pinball when I wear it out? They're like, hey, you got Woody in your pocket. That's not Woody. Uncanny Valley Woody. That is some creepy, creepers in face stuff going on. What is that? All right, so Hexapinball, we'll give them another week in the spotlight here. The stream happened for Space Haunt. Okay, I've not seen this stream. I'm sorry. Man, I think they should send us residuals at this point, honestly. Why? For what? Because just discussing that last week. It has now trickled into everything, the whole space hunt thing. Yeah, but what else was there for anyone to talk about? They didn't, though. They didn't. Okay. The stream happened.
    56:49
    So gameplay is now caught on film on the Internet. And I've got to say, Dennis, you know, call me crazy, but this game still fucking looks rough. This game looks bad. Oh, man. Like code-wise, or were the shots not smooth? Everything. Oh. Oh, everything. No. Everything. It just did not. This is a Star Wars reference, too. Why? Yeah, I got that one. Fire everything. But, so they, somebody streamed it at some event. Oh, it's a potato cam thing? I feel like it's like Mike at Home pin again. Like, they just don't want to sell the scenes. I thought you meant they put together a gameplay reveal stream. Oh, no. It kind of was, but it was by some stream channel that was at the event to officially do it, but then they streamed Big Bang Bar after. It was just bad. It was really bad. The code looked skeleton. It was barely putting along.
    57:49
    You couldn't hear the call outs or anything, nor would I understand what they said, but it just did not look fun at all.
    57:58
    It's not like the layout didn't work. It's just it didn't look fun. And, yeah, the animations were eh.
    58:05
    Did you find out what the dangly thing does? Nope, I didn't really. No, not at all. That's unfortunate. I just don't know why you would allow that to be the first impression of your product. Well, maybe they're doing a stern pinball topper maneuver and hoping you'll just do a new video. It was like a disco. Like they were in like a disco because they were playing old 90s American pop. That's where the happy people go. Hexapinball. I'm sorry. I don't get it. And speaking of not getting it, TPN's very own Aussie Pinball Podcast hosted by Dr. John sat down to speak with Mike Kalinowski. You don't know that reference. Mike Wazowski. Owner of HomePen. Mm-hmm. Did you hear this episode? I heard this episode. I made our little TPN thing, our little podcast section. I left a whole bunch of comments. I was out just walking around the neighborhood, heard the episode, came back, had to type up some initial thoughts. This actually, I think, is the – this is – we all have our favorites. This is my favorite Aussie Pinball Podcast episode ever. It was so interesting to me, and I highly recommend people go and listen. I'll give Dr. Johnson credit. He did a really good job in that interview. He still pushed, you know, and he was edgy. He didn't shy away from anything, nor did Mike, for that matter, shy away from answering anything. And all transparency here, I did not plan on making any notes to discuss this interview at all. Frankly, because it was very clear in this interview that Mike does not like the USA, Nor does he want any of his products being shipped or sold or promoted to any, not only the USA, but anyone that likes pinball and understands pinball. No enthusiasm. He says he doesn't want to. That's what makes it so interesting. So I thought, well, people that really do actually enjoy pinball, they listen to this podcast, so they're not going to be the target demographic. So why even discuss it? But then you had some fun in Discord, and I was like, okay. So I guess we'll jump into it. They discuss a lot of things, Dennis and the listener, including the death of a man in Mike's own room. And that said, man's wife saying that Mike worked her husband to death, all the way to cash settlements from a disgruntled employee that was on maternity leave. It was all there, and none of it made any sense. And there's some eyebrow-raising moments, such as Mike from HomePen saying, motherboards just don't last more than a couple years, So your $10,000 pinball machines are all going to be paperweights. Well, I mean, objectively, it doesn't make sense because there are some stern spike games still working. I mean, this was a wide-ranging interview. So the conversation touched on so many pieces. So maybe we should take these sort of bit by bit. Where would you like to start? I don't want to start with the dead man in the room because that seemed weird. So let's stay away from that. I thought it was weird that you opened with it. What would you like to start with? motherboards. Okay, that's interesting.
    61:17
    There have been, and I remember really when computers, using computers to actually power pinball machines started to become more popular. I'd say really with JJP. Right.
    61:28
    There was a lot of concern about what's going to happen, what happens if the system gets bricked, what happens if it fails. And the thing with Mike's position on it is his stance that you mentioned, that motherboards just, like, they last two years, is nonsensical. That hasn't been true since I think I've been alive. But motherboards are a lot better off now than they even were when JJP started. So I actually researched it after I got, because I used to, well, back in the day. He acted like they were, like, these things are paper mache. Yeah, like, the motherboard's going to burn out. You're not going to be able to get a replacement. He's going to make part, yeah. Which, as long as it powers, like, if all the control boards and everything are compatible, it doesn't, like, do you have to have the exact same version in the first place, the exact same model of motherboard? As long as the computer can run all the, you know, we're running everything. Well, he ran this company off of making repro boards and stuff, though. Well, his whole thing was, yeah, he didn't articulate anything, like, what about the motherboard failing? I think he's just thinking that, well, computers fail, and thus, motherboards are bad. most of the, like in the old days and back in my days, the biggest I don't know if you've gone through a lot of computer failures. The most common cause I've ever had of a computer actually failing, a whole computer, is usually the hard drive failing. I'm an idiot, I know that. And the most common thing that I've ever had fail on a computer outright is the easily replaceable fan to keep the CPU cool. Like one of the fans goes bad and you put in a new fan. Motherboard failure, according to online tech resources that I checked, Most common point of failure is a capacitor. Those same capacitors are used on these boards and have to, as we know as pinheads, we have to replace old capacitors. But modern motherboards, as long as they're kept in profit, assuming not extreme climate and subconditions, should run about 20 years. But I don't think any circuit board's really that different either. I mean – And capacitors are what, pennies? Yeah. Yeah, and again, okay, I could see you saying, oh, I don't like motherboards because they're going to not have through-hole technology for casters, and I'm not going to be able to easily swap it in. Surface math stuff. Yeah, all that stuff. Yeah, all the complaints about surface math and everything. And I'm not saying that there aren't reasons to say I think my solution is better than their solution, but he was just kind of like, no, motherboards go bad after two years. Look at how often people replace their computers. And it's like, but that's not why people replace their computers. They replace them because they want them faster. It's not that breaking all the time. Which lends itself to the argument of technology. And I think in 5, 10, 20 years, I'm not sure reproing old antiquated motherboards is really that big. I think we could probably, people could probably figure it out. They have for every motherboard thus far in this industry, right? We have plenty of instances. No one goes and gets, and I use this loosely, I know it's hyperbole, folks, don't write in complaints. That's right. No one goes and gets original Rockwell System 1 Gottlieb boards and puts them in to fit scale. There are completely different design boards, like the Flip board, the Newomf board. Oh, yeah. There are all sorts. That's – Weebly. There are solutions. What about Weebly? Weebly. There are solutions. My Sinbad is powered on a Raspberry Pi-based board system. That's how I run mine. Real collectors don't use repro boards. No, but I'm a fake. I'm a fake, so it's okay for me. It's okay for me. So my point is, like, the motherboard doesn't have moving parts. It's like his circuit board. He didn't articulate anything about why his choice and, like, that he's, like, if his company goes away, how are we supposed to get his chips that are powering, you know, the PIA chips? It was just like there was no, he said it so assuredly. Like, it's just a fact. boards, computer boards that are motherboards go bad, and his boards won't. Because they're made by him. But all circuit boards go bad. All circuit boards have a finite lifespan. None of this is meant to last forever.
    65:42
    We all die. I just thought it was a really weird argument. I'm sorry I went on a little long on it. I appreciate the research. But I looked it up because I was like, how often does he think motherboards go bad? I mean, most of the time when people ruin one of the CPU ones, they brick something. You know, my biggest complaint with all these computer-based ones is how long they boot. It takes to boot them up when I turn them on. That's what I don't like. But it's not that. Man, Pookie and JJP's. Yeah.
    66:08
    So anyway, all right, so there's that one. Okay, that was exciting. But, yeah, he's very anti-motherboard, and he made that very clear twice in the interview. He's been inside a lot of things, including pinball people. He said that his games are not intended for pinball people. rather, they're for people who just want a pinball machine without really understanding what pinball is. Yes. He was talking about, yeah, no comp, he said not only competitive players, he's like competitive players are never going to like our games, but like pinball people who are wanting this deep code, like he considers like 1990s Bally Williams games really deep. So don't look to them. I love this part. I love this part, Zach. Yeah. And I'll tell you, I'm going to tell you why I loved it. Yeah. He constantly referred to as a medieval madness killer. He wasn't out to make a medieval madness killer. We're not out to make that nice game. No. First thing, and I don't mean this to be overly rude, but it's apparent to all of us that you're not out to make a medieval madness killer. That was obvious. Very clear. But, yeah, that was really encapsulating that he still thinks that medieval madness is a deep game, and it is not. This is very antiquated thinking. It's quintessential 90s Valley Williams coach set. He has for a long time in other interviews that I've read or heard or people quoting from him when he would post on forums. I understood his whole argument. I'm trying to make a game for people to go to the pub and bash the ball around and have fun. And I always just assume that as a this is just a shield to explain why you don't want to balance the code. Like how the old Premiere games generally didn't have balance code. So, you know, I'm just not going to balance it. Thunderbirds initially couldn't be updated. Yes. And I didn't agree with it, but I understood. the argument. I understood how he was framing it. But in this interview, he went all in about saying how he doesn't even play pinball. He didn't say, I don't like pinball, but that's the vibe I got. I'm just, I'm really, I'm technically minded. I'm like, this whole hobby is full of technically minded people. They still want the game to be fun. Even Ed Krinsky, who didn't play pinball games, knew his goal was to make games fun. That was the whole point. And he's just sitting there going, no, I'm just thinking about it from a tech perspective. I'm really not at this to make a game that pinball players will like. That's what boggled me. And his whole argument is this is for people that want to buy... This is for people who don't know any better to buy a game solely based on theme to put in their game room as their sole game. That really had no rules. But it's not fun. It's not balanced. Like a gumball machine. It's like it runs and it's got a theme. That was his argument of his strategy. Yeah. And it perplexed me. And we'll get a little bit later, I know, about the pricing because I sort of saw it there. But it's still like, why would you be proud to say, because it seemed like he was almost proud to say, I'm not making games for people who like pinball.
    69:13
    But they're pinball games. Then why even go on a pinball podcast for an interview? Well, you know, he might get along with Dr. John and all that, and that's fine. He may not care what any of us think, which is definitely fine. He doesn't need to give two licks about anything I say. But I find it absolutely perplexing as a business to say, I'm in this niche industry, and I have no goal to make games that people who are already in this industry like. absolutely gobsmacked. I'm absolutely gobsmacked. Nor marketed to the majority of consumers of this industry in the United States. Couldn't even say the United States as a name. Couldn't even say USA. Oh my gosh. Talk about childish.
    70:00
    Absolutely childish. And I'm not going to go all murka and wave the flag here. It's fine. I've worked with, I remember back in school and stuff, I knew some international students who were in the U.S. who get a degree and hated the U.S. I mean, I've had a few like that. Hey, we don't do everything right. I know he got burned on some things like canceled board orders and stuff and having to refund paper.
    70:24
    That seemed to be his whole thing. He had some issues with purchasing and cancellations and stuff, and so he kind of dropped selling to the U.S., and then people got mad, and then he pulled a sack and sort of doubled down against the naysayers. Well, the penny first act. He said some things that were pretty handy. And I don't care if he wants to avoid selling to the U.S. I don't. I just thought it was pretty trite to not even be willing to say the name of the country. But then, later on in the interview, Dennis, when you're giving your goal of your next game the cost of that, and you use the USD, you use that currency to price your next product, that's where I get confused. Why are you using the U.S. currency even though you shit on the U.S. throughout the year? Because that's the term. There's no desire to sell. Like you're trying to get your next game down to $49.99. USD. Why even? Why is that a goal? I assume it's because, like it or not, the pinball world revolves around the U.S., and that's the terminology that everyone speaks in. For now, it does, yes.
    71:32
    That's what everyone price compares on. So him, too. Awfully convenient. You can't, well, I mean, that's the power of America, especially in a hobby that was created by America. So, it's just, I mean, it's just how it is. So, again, I don't, yeah, if he doesn't want to sell the U.S., that's his choice. But, like, the country who shall not be named. And the first time he said it, you know, I should have known because I knew he had problems with it. But I was like, Russia? Why are we not? I'm trying to think, like, what country has been so egregious that people are going to protest by not even saying who it is and just confusing people. I'm like, oh, wait, no, it's America. America Mort. Why did I ever think it was actually like a country that engaged in an illicit war? Sorry, I'm not going to get political.
    72:16
    Still very peculiar that even using that as a currency example, then he claims that the next game is going to be revealed at next year's Chicago Pinball Expo. He's going to. What?
    72:30
    Yeah. Now I am so lost. This industry never ceases to make me giggle. That was weird. That was mysterious. Didn't he also note in the interview he's never actually been to the U.S.? Oh, I don't know. That'd be a first trip. I think he said that. Hey, I've never been to Australia.
    72:51
    Yeah, it's very odd. Next game is going to be extremely famous. That's what he said. Based off a movie, zero, and I mean zero, video assets or audio assets It's due to the IP being owned by like six different companies. So they're going for like a solid state type of basically your homebrew, print whatever theme you want on the play field type of game. Not, but not doing DMD, which has been where his heart's been at. I mean, this is not, so far I think the two licenses he's grabbed are actually for, were actually good decisions. I know Thunderbirds is probably, again, to America people are going to be like. Oh, yeah, sure. I agree. Spinal Tap, I agree. And he went into this about, you know, it was their first game. His plan was to sell to the Australia market. Thunderbirds is a lot bigger there and in Europe than in the U.S. Strategically, it was a perfectly good pick, I think. The game ended up not resonating with a lot of people. Now, he blames that mostly on Pinside and people not playing it and just hating on it for reasons. But, you know, with Spinal Tap, the asset integration being here's an LCD screen and all it does is play random clips of the movie while you play the game.
    74:06
    Under an antiquated orange document. This is the right decision to not have video and audio assets. If that's how you're going to implement it, this is the right decision is to just not have them and make whatever excuse you need to about why you don't have them. But if he's going to spend that much money on IP, the best financial decision, Dennis, would be to just simply re-theme Spinal Tap and just like everybody else, re-themes and puts their own, you know, print on the play field, why not just re-theme an already designed game? Why, especially if you're doing it to people who don't care about pinball, why not just always have one layout and just keep printing different pictures on play fields? I don't understand why you wouldn't do that. I agree with you. His strategy is not to sell to people who like pinball. Yeah, they're not collecting one more than one. One unique game to every person. Yeah, just be free three minutes. Reskin in that ship. And that's where, you know, I get his goal about trying to bring in new people and having this ideally sub $5,000 price point. I get that part of the strategy. But, yeah, there are other decisions like, yeah, why constantly redesign the layout? Why not Shrek and Family Guy? Instead of International Rescue, they can just hit the center ramp 11 times as you're dialing it to 11 on Spinal Tap. You can keep doing that. He actually went at length about it. because Dr. John asked about it. I loved this. I loved all of this. Dr. John, this is my favorite interview. Do more like these.
    75:32
    So he cited that. The issue was at some point early in the design process, he couldn't really remember who, but there was a decision made by someone to put the international rescue lights at the back of the game. And then when they were getting near the end of development, they were like, oh, oh, no, we have these lights at the back of the game. What are we going to do? and Mike was like, well, let's just have the light light up every time you shoot the center ramp because the center ramp is an easy shot to make. And then that way that will be able to use it. But the way he told it was so good because it was all of our fault. Either way, it was our fault for being upset. Why are you guys focusing on that? That was a little part of the game. Well, because he's like, the way he said it was, it made it sound like we should have known all this. We should have understood because he's like, I was going to get criticized for how long it was going to take to spell international rescue, or I could have just not put it in at all, which my impression was like how he wanted. He just didn't want to deal with it. And then you'd be all upset that the international rescue lights in the back don't do anything. And it's like, well, yeah, why didn't you just take them out of the design, if that's the issue? He was prickly the whole interview. The thing was, this is my nutshell thing in our TPN Discord. I'll share it here because, hey, it's a podcast. Yes. My problem with it, I love the interview. My overall takeaway problem with Mike's approach was, just my impression, he didn't take responsibility for anything. Everything was someone else's fault. Everything was, pin side and pinball people are a bunch of haters, and that's why you can't get a break. People didn't understand the issues that he faced, you know, on charge backs on boards, and so that's why America hates him, so he hates America. People don't understand how hard it is to have to re-spool up your factory because you had to move to Taiwan because the authoritarian Chinese regime cracked down on foreign owners. Like, you chose to go there. Did you not know it was an authoritarian country when you moved there? People won the term of the league. Yeah, people are dying in my room. And their wives are blaming all their work. And they're demanding money. And the government's all suspicious. even though I'm the nicest employer in the entire nation. And you guys just don't understand who these games are for. These games aren't for you. The only thing in the whole interview that I remember hearing where he took any responsibility that I would define as taking responsibility was when people complained that his flippers couldn't make the ramp shots. And he even said in the interview, I don't think there was really a problem. Yep. But, yes, the end of stroke distance on our flippers was shorter than that of Williams. And we've now made changes and extended the, you know, the aperture. So now the flippers go up like the Williams flippers did because we had to invent those from scratch because you're not allowed to import anything into China. Yeah, it might have been a thing to check before you moved there, but, okay, whatever. It's our fault. It's all our fault or the Chinese government. It's everyone's fault but his. We had a lot of issue as well in people taking his ideas or using his work. He talked about, like, they don't use clear coat on their games. They're doing what Haggis did instead. Oh, shoot, I forgot about that part. He said Haggis copied, stole his work, and he was talking about other people stealing his work and him not getting credit for it and all this stuff. But then later goes on to say that, yeah, basically we're just reengineering everything that Williams Valley and what they were doing. It's like, oh, it's okay now, but Haggis stole our stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Haggis Thieves. That's right. Or copy their work. You didn't use the word. Some of this is a hyperbolic. Listen to the actual interview to know the course. I'm not trying to be disturbing. We're here for entertainment. Right. We're here for entertainment. Another aspect that was very entertaining to me, you mentioned earlier about how with Thunderbirds, you couldn't update the software. And he had argued, I remember him arguing at the time, that it was because it was going to be code complete. There was no reason to do code updates. And so the board said it didn't allow the code updates. And now I guess with Spinal Tap, you can do a code update. It doesn't use a flash stick. You actually have to plug with a cable in your laptop. He's got a USB on it. He's got a USB port. In the interview, this is, I'm talking with my hand. In the interview, Zach, he talks about how he couldn't find any experts, and he even used to, like, quote experts. He air-quoted verbally.
    79:54
    He couldn't find any experts on how to implement USB code updating, and so his ultimate solution is he finally found someone that he paid with, like, some sandwiches that was able to figure out and write some special code that would be able to do it from a laptop. USB. This guy who went on a rant, Zach, went on a rant about how motherboards suck and could not purport by anyone who knew how to work with a port that has been around since 1996.
    80:23
    I was like, you have got to be kidding me. He acted as if they had to clone a person just to train them to become this. He's like, I got all these experts in, and they're all like, we can't figure out the USB. And I agree with him. If he brought those people in and they didn't know how to let a thing update through USB, it does sound like they weren't really experts. Absolutely. I agree with his judgment on it. And they all died from exhaustion of trying to figure it out. It's all everyone else's fault. I don't know what his process was to choosing experts. It clearly isn't very good, but it's all their fault for being failures. And he praised the one who got it right, the one who got it right, who doesn't let you do a USB flash stick. I have to drag out the laptop, have a cable, and then run a special program? A little app? A little special code app? What is this? It's like me flashing my own EPROMs. I thought it was interesting. He's got a company outside of Australia doing the code for the first two games here, but then when asked about if they're going back to that company for this Australian company for the code of the third game, he said, no, that's all going to be in-house now there in Taiwan.
    81:26
    Maybe even less. Maybe, you know, to showcase even less depth in his upcoming code. They can figure out how to code some pop bumpers in a stand-up target. And there were fascinating challenges that he highlighted that I didn't know about. Like the need for, like they had to do the cabinet painting and stuff in a different factory when they were in China because the province he was in was wanting to go more IT tech. And so, according to Mike, they were cracking down on any industry. They didn't want dirty industry. Of course, his was in no way dirty and was perfect because everything he does is perfect. But because of that, they weren't allowed to paint the cabinets in the same province that the assembly happened in. And so, yeah, there were a lot of – it was really interesting. He has the ability to do a lot of manufacturing and a lot of electrical and mechanical design that a lot of people don't. It's just there's no reason he should ever speak to public. Ever. I'm glad he did this interview I loved it I disagree with a lot of his decision making I'm armchair quarterbacking I don't run my own pinball manufacturing I don't design games he seems to know a lot on the technological front I question a lot of this business decision making my overall take away was I get it and we've seen from his timelines he's gone through a lot of hardship this has not been easy for him I do sympathize with all that. But I'm also, I just personally very much a buck stops here with leadership. And when a leader blames everyone else for everything going wrong, it just puts my hackles up because I'm like, do you really, do you think you're a good leader if this is your outcome? I mean, not everything is everyone else's fault and just bad luck, is it? This isn't a Dickens novel.
    83:18
    One of the worst writers I've ever read, by the way, Charles Dickens. You're doing so well. come on have you read Oliver Twist let me tell you have you seen the movie I don't think I've even read the book let me tell you something Oliver Twist goes through the whole thing does nothing don ever make a pinball machine about Oliver Twist I going to try this into pinball Does nothing to advance his position in any way And by sheer luck like gets adopted by a rich guy It's the whole book. It's like, who writes a book where there's no arc? The guy just had stuff happen to him, and then his life is better at the end of it. Oh. That's Dickens. Wow.
    83:59
    And unfortunately, Home Pin hasn't had someone come in and just adopt the company. Only in the Pennyverse would we get an Oliver Twist pinball machine. Anyway, I liked this interview. It was highly entertaining at the very least. I think the takeaway note for all the listeners here is keep in mind if anything ever interests you from HomePen, the owner has specifically said that not only are you not the target demographic, he does not want you buying his products, period, dot. That's it. He doesn't want you buying them. He has some strong takes. He doesn't have any desire for you to enjoy his products either. They're not made to be enjoyable for people like you. Wow, that was good stuff, man. It almost makes the next person seem like a saint. Andrew McBain from Pinball Adventures was interviewed by Don's Pinball Podcast. Okay, I haven't heard this. This will be new to me. And I was listening to it in the background. So specifics-wise, he was going through it. It was entertaining. I wanted to give a thank you to Mr. McBain for giving yours truly a shout-out at the opening of the show, talking about the difficulty designing pins, and I haven't designed a pin. So thank you, Andrew, for that shout-out. I appreciated that. But it was an interesting interview. Go over to Don's Pinball Podcast, give it a listen. And he was very energetic. He talked about the behind the scenes on how the theming came about, the production, their goals. Very in-depth interview and well done. So go listen to that. Chicago Gaming Company. Just wanted to let people know that we are now seeing a true mix of Cactus Canyon Remake SE Pluses as well as LEs being produced at this time. LEs are not completed. They're probably not even three-fourths, probably close to three-fourths the way done on LEs. But the last batch that we received was just SE Pluses, not LEs. So they are truly mixing them all up. There's no way you can mix up The Screaming Goat Club members Of the Pinball Show These are our biggest supporters And we are so so very appreciative In each and every way More so than a mic from Home Pin Would be about his consumers So much so that we're going to thank you right now And we're going to go backwards The bell Ring-a-ding-ding-ling Bumbley-bumble Thank you Charlie We appreciate the support. Oh, no. I'm thinking about now, and I'm like, fucking editing. This is going to be a pain in the ass. Why are you going backwards? Oh, that's what the fox says. Thanks, Joe Fox. And happy Father's Day to everybody out there, including you, Joe Fox. We didn't even tell people happy Father's Day, Dennis. Happy Father's Day. Man, we are the bastards of pinball podcasting. You see what I did there?
    86:56
    Stern OEM shaker motor. Thank you, Dave. Rumbly my tumbler. That was a Winnie the Pooh reference. What the fuck? Yes, it was. Was there any pictures of Winnie the Pooh with Gary Stern in front of Winnie the Pooh? It's pretty open. I want to see that for Winnie the Pooh. Yeah, I know. It's open IP now. Yeah, I want to see it. The most annoying falcon in the world. I've got to find a different clip for that because Frankie is not annoying. He's supportive. I need a supportive falcon. The kineticist, you're a wizard, Colin.
    87:33
    Oh, thanks for the support. I always liked that one. And the panther cannot be declawed. Sweet, sweet Rob.
    87:42
    Face as supple as a Bradley Cooper. Thank you. Thank you, Jabs. We appreciate you, Steve. I'm still trying to get through the crystal skull again. why are you watching that again because people knocked it unjustly that's why I would argue that some of the cinematography in that film is some of Spielberg's best it's the Tarzan scene with the monkeys that always push me over and I'm just like I can't I can get through nuking the fridge and all that but I also want Kate in her role with her Soviet accent to go would you look into the mirror I agree you're watching Lord of the Rings, I'm on two towers this morning before we start recording. That never gets old. Gotta have my Galadriel in. But the overacting from Shia LaBeouf is good. When he rolls in with that leather jacket on that motorcycle, I'm like, there he is, man. Put a paper bag over your head, you arty fuck. Let's go. So thank you, Bubba B. The Bobcat! Oh, Rod Dogg. Rodney, we appreciate you, buddy. And that one, And every time I listen back, that call out, shoot that fucker. Oh, shoot that fucker. Always makes me laugh. Thank you for the support. I just cannot wait until somebody else signs up because I want so bad Dennis to add to this team. Oh, I just can't wait. And as a reminder, for the next Pinball Show live Zoom hangout, these things have been killer the last couple months. For those that are part of the Pinball Show Screaming Goat Club and the Nordman levels on Patreon, It's going to be June 21st. Mark your calendars. June 21st at 8 p.m. Central. It's not too late to sign up for either of those levels. And many of you out there for the official club membership at the $10 level, just bump yourself up to the $25 level and come hang out with us this coming Wednesday. Woo! June 21st. Isn't this coming Wednesday? Yeah. Yeah, we've been doing it the last week of the month, but I'm out of town. Okay. Thank you again for all of the support of not only the Screaming Go Club members, but the Norman level members as well as the official club members. Sign up today at patreon.com slash the pinball show and get yourself a dose of private discord chat and exclusive content from the pinball show.
    90:06
    It's that time of the week again, Dennis. Do you hear the drum roll? Yeah, I hear it. I feel it. Drums. Drums in the deep. To give it the... No, they are coming. Oh. I was doing a Minds of Moria quote. It's fresh in my mind. See, it is fresh. It's weird, though. The troll and the hobbit, though, when they go down there, it's like a gelatin thing. Oh, God. That's like the crystal skull. No, it's not that bad. Yeah, the moment where they start going in the barrels, like swinging like cars in, that is horrible. It's so corny. You don't think dwarves are that nimble? You are a fool of a took, I'll tell you that. There's your Pennyverse. Your Marbles, Marion, or Pippin. Pinball Market Trends! The Good Bob Pimp! Check my work!
    91:04
    Father's Day Edition, even though there's no references to Father's Day in this whole episode. Why don't you do Legend of the Eagle Fly-In, like in Lord of the Rings, you know, and just not have them show up?
    91:13
    That would make more sense. Gandalf, you lazy ass You cynical asshole Just use the eagles We don't want to use those Because they would turn You know how, what's her name Gabriela Galadria The hot elf, how she turns Because it's too strong That's what the eagles would have done They would have got a little sneer in their beak And they would have got red in their eyes And they would have dumped off See, that's my explanation Instead of a dark eagle, you will have a vulture. Yes. They would have turned on poor Frodo. Not darker Charonist than Ravenous. Right. Treacherous as the sky. They would have taken them right to the breath seekers or whatever.
    91:57
    Breath makers? Those are cats with infants. You're like bringing in the Dementors now. The Dementors, yeah. I don't know what they are, but they're mean little bastards.
    92:07
    Femalemarty twins. Where am I at? Oh, training up this week? Objectively. Numbers don't lie. I only report facts. It's James Bond 007. Bam, ba-da-bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, ba-da-bam, bam. You all are about wrong. Dun, dun, dun. Wait till the coat up. They're buying. They're buying them, Dennis. They're buying them. They're selling them right now. We're selling them. Slipping out pinball. Buy, buy, buy! I've sold six James Bonds, four of them used in the last two weeks. They were sitting. We had used James Bonds almost piling up at this point. I was getting a little worried. My wife's like, oh, so you took another James Bond in on trade? Okay. Not judging, but okay.
    92:48
    Well, they were building up. And I was like, I promise, honey. Just wait. Wait for the code. And she's like, where's the code? And I'm like, oh, you clever girl. But no, they're finally selling. Thank God. And they're selling very well. So much so that they're running it again in December. And I think that December, the picture of sales and perception of James Bond is going to be even more significant from now until December. Wait for those additional code updates. You guys are liking what you're seeing now in the feel of that game and the code? And this is a good time for me to tell you all, and it's not like I'm showing because I don't have very many years left, but if you're looking to get in before this code gets good and you like the way this shoots and you like that theme, if you're going to buy one now, it's probably not the worst time to buy one. before they start trickling back up into the regular desirable themes, pro and premiums on the secondary market. I'm just trying to save you all some money. You're welcome. Also training up this week. Sorry, Craig. I told you I wouldn't do it last episode, but I have to this episode because it continues to trend up. It's Godzilla Topper. Yes, plume and all, babes. We made plume a thing. Hashtag plume lifestyle.
    94:01
    You know, we're still talking about toppers. It's that good. You know how many damn toppers we have sold? We have sold a shitload of these Godzilla toppers. I feel like I'm back and selling Star Wars R2-D2 toppers. When is the R2-D2 topper coming out? Oh, man, those things are stacking, and nobody wants that piece of shit for $750. You're crazy. Now, they're going to be building Godzilla toppers. Where's Hulk 2-D2? Why didn't they ever make a one-off? They should. I got a compliment the other day. Where was I at? Somebody said, dude, I love that shirt. I got a compliment. I got to remember exactly where I was. Yeah. He was like, dude, I love that shirt. I was wearing my Hulk 2D2 shirt. Hulk 2D2, yeah. Yeah. It's great. Weeble, weeble. To the common plebeian, Zach, they're going to see that, and they're going to think you're making like a meta commentary on Disney acquiring everything. Because you're going to Star Wars and Marvel together. Maybe that's what we were doing, Dennis.
    94:57
    Perhaps we were the meta the whole time. We are the set of returns, I'm just saying. What goes up? It's got to come down. Right now it's not Godzilla Topper. I think this is probably, they'll run two or three times, but chill out for all of you who did not get a first run. I hear you. Your voices are heard. I know you're upset that you don't have the Topper yet. And if you're going to sharpen your pitchforks, throw me one too, bro, and we'll storm the Stern Pinball Factory together because I'm waiting as well. I'm sorry. Turning down this week is waiting for accessories. No, turning down this week. Oh, no. Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon remake LE. What? Say it ain't so. They're not even done making them all. Yeah. Why? You're still trying to sell them, Zach. Why are you turning them down? Because I only report the facts, people. And that's because on the secondary market, the numbers have been dropping on Cactus Canyon LEs. They have. These were selling pretty easily for $12,000 six months ago. Three months ago, you saw it dip maybe a little bit. we get the announcement of all these new games coming out. People are tired of waiting for the Cactus Canons, or they've since had it for a while, and they're ready for Pulp Fiction or something. So it trickled down to about $11,000. And then to $10,500? Now I've seen recently some right under the $10,000 threshold. We're now close back to MSRP. Something for Chicago Gaming Company and LE rarely does, if ever, trickling back down to that MSRP level. Yeah, it's, I want, yeah, that's curious. I kind of wonder if it's, it's a less popular, like, there's not the nostalgia for it that there was for Monster Bash or Attack. Yeah. Because a lot of people didn't experience it, and I wonder maybe the speed that they've come out and the fact that they're still not the enhanced code out yet. And people are, it's a shallow game. So I'm just wondering if people are getting bored with it. And it's, I've never, back only, and I've not played the remake. Well, maybe I have once. I play, I got more time on the original, though. So that original does not have the legs of a Monster Bash or an Attack. And so I could see where you'd be like, I need the new code, and that will give it the legs because the layout isn't as good otherwise. But if you don't have the new code, how long do you want to wait for it? I would argue that it doesn't have the legs of an Attack or Medieval maybe, but Monster Bash. Well, I don't actually. I was going to say I dislike Monster Bash, but I don't want people to write in. I really don't care for Monster Bash. I don't either. I just can't get into it. I don't mind playing it. I get it in tournament a lot. I don't usually put extra money in it outside of it, but I have on occasion just put a game on it. I feel like it's just one way to play. I mean, you try to get the build the stack, you build the stack, and then you go. To me, it feels less fun than the other. Attack's actually really well balanced, but Medieval's pretty much a one trick too, but I don't know. I just don't get it. I just don't care for it. Right now, Mike from HomePim is confused with all the rules that Cactus Canyon has. He's like, what is this goddamn Lord of the Rings remake shit? They're back again? We're never going to financially recover if we code all this. This is crazy.
    98:04
    I hope he does get Tiger King. I might buy it. I was going to ask. I might. Because the whole, him having a game, but the citation of the IP being owned by all these different companies. Do you know of any movie or something based off a movie that's that split up? I am such a nerd. I do not. I attempted to Google, but my Google skills are not strong enough to bring up anything. I tried. I don't know. Because I don't know who's got a really complicated ownership cycle like that. The problem is anything that's super famous like that, there's probably a lot of hands in the honey jar. Oh, bother. Another Winnie the Pooh rabbit. What's going on here? People are going to type in a pen side, he's hinting. I promise you he's hinting. All that's turning down this week is people stealing the advertisements in pinball that I've worked so hard to create. What? No one's stolen the advertisements from you. Oh, I just, it's on the tip of my tongue. I want so bad to. Prove it. I could. Prove it. I don't see anything. Prove it. This last week, listeners, I just, it's so hard for me. So tough for me. Prove it. I'm in this situation. I'm in this industry, and people can steal. They can be thieves. People can poke. People can say shit that's just simply not true, and I have to sit and take it. Trending down is my inability to snap back at some of these very unethical— What's gaslighting, Zach? I would never have heard of such a thing. That exists. You're a fraud to the dealer out there. You son of a bitch. You are so, so lucky that I don't want to be attacked. It's not worth my time. You're not worth my time. But just know, listener, out there, if someone creates something and that something is so good that you want to steal it, here's a simple solution. Just fucking don't. Don't steal it to try to make your own money. How about that? And then, if for some reason you are dumb enough to steal said piece of intellectual property that you helped create, if you do steal that, don't try to gaslight the creator when they come at you and say, hey, man, maybe don't fucking steal my stuff to make money for yourself in a competing market. Maybe don't do that. Don't try to gaslight that person as if he's too dumb to document every piece of evidence behind you stealing the original. Just, the point of the matter is, in pinball market trends, figure it out.
    100:37
    Fucking dealer out there. I don't even know what stage I'm right. At least they have the state and then people can narrow it down. It wouldn't be. No, I got to beat that. No, I can't. I don't want it. Yeah, cut it. Cut it. Don't want it. Cut it.
    100:53
    One hour and 57 minutes and 40 seconds and cut it. At this point, there's no deal of the week. Go to that dealer. See if he's got a deal of the week. He does. He has a deal on your ad. He's like, we've got a new segment on our socials. We're called Pinball Market Trends.
    101:13
    Just copy and paste this podcast. Oh, shit. He could start his own podcast called the Pinball Show and get the neon sign from the Zen Pinball Show. Oh, my God. Yes. And that would make him more legitimate. See, that's the problem. All this injustice in the world and all these little douche-tickles all band together. And pretty soon, he will be supporting Zen Pinball. I'm telling you, it's a conspiracy. Coercion. It's all a bunch of bullshit.
    101:42
    Ladies and gentlemen, that's Pinball Market Trends. This is a sedition. Oh, my God. You can't do it. One hour, 58 minutes, 50 seconds. Stop. You can't take that. Stop. I've got to take it. I've just got to keep taking it. One day I'm going to close. He keeps taking your stuff. God.
    102:05
    That's why I resort to stupid nods. I've got to find some kind of outlet. And as always, I'm just here to report the facts because I don't have time for anything else. So what I say is, might as well be gospel. Man, that's loaded in and out of the show. Because numbers don't lie. Pinball Market Transcript.
    102:30
    Too bad, this one. Where can people catch you? They want to reach out to me. Easiest to do is email me at eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com. Very nice. You can also email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. Facebook. We've got a pinball show Facebook, a TikTok, a Discord. Are TikToks similar to like the special When lit Twitter account Where they don't do anything I don't know I don't use TikTok So I don't know At one point you're going to see Dennis twerking In the TikTok video for the pinball show Who knows But sign up to Patreon as well Become an exclusive member It helps support us And it helps support what we produce here At the pinball show And shout out to We got semi called out From the slam tilt weeks back It was really for somebody else but we were still kind of targeted indirectly. But the results of it were thousands of dollars going to a good charitable cause in the name of Lime and Sheet. So Slam Tilt, congratulations, and thanks again for having that charitable event going on, and thanks again for the cause in which you focused on. And go listen to Slam Tilt, too. They've been really good lately. But also, just out of spite of them, sign up to our Patreon, patreon.com slash the pinball show because you get what you pay for, motherfuckers.
    103:53
    Wow. I can't. Way to sell it. Straight down the middle, while you were smelling candles, go check out those videos. We got the Godzilla topper video that was premiered there. And flipping out pinball, buy from us or don't. I don't know. Just stop ripping on me for having a job.
    104:17
    Product showcase this week, Iron Maiden Premium. You want to know why? Not only because they're building them, because we have a few extra spots. Oh, a few spots open up, Dennis. So jump on that. Email us at Zach, Z-A-C-H, at flip the letter N out, pinball.com. You'll see a juicy advertisement on social media and on other dealer social So you'll see that whenever we do get the games in. So sign up now if you want one of those spots or wait. See if we have some once we actually have them in hand. Iron Maiden Pro we have in stock as well as Jurassic Park Premium. Godzilla Pros. I think I have some of those too still. Damn. Now is like the perfect time for everybody to say, I don't want to go on a wait list. There are over, I think, 20 titles right now, Dennis, that somebody can buy in stock right now. Godfather of the Leagues, James Bond Pro, Premium, 60th Anniversary, Aliens, still on sale. Home Editions, if you want a pin that's even deeper than Mike from Home Pins Games, you can get the Stern Home Edition, Jurassic Park, or Star Wars. I don't think we have Oktoberfest left. I'm sorry. We have spots for GDF. Still going. Deluxe Editions. We might have an LE spot left. Check out the Flippin' Out Vault. Toy Stories are available. Ultraman Halloweens. TMNT games, a lot of pre-owned games Go to the Flippin' Out Facebook page And we have those all listed and shown there Shaker Motors in stock Dust Covers, Player Mats, Headphone Kits Shaker Motors, I already said that Flippin' Out with Friends What about Flippin' Out with Friends, Joe Engelberth I think he's going to do a talk show This week, this Wednesday And then this Wednesday After the TPS exclusive Zoom Hangout If we don't run long I mean, he'll still do it on time, but sometimes we run long. So, yeah, he's playing Godfather as well. What's been going on at the pinball network, Dennis? Well, last couple of weeks, we've had Triple Drain issued in episode 38. Greg Bone was on that one. The Bone, that's right. Yeah, talking about some space hunt. They did. Greg's knowledge just sort of poured through on that, and they also talked a lot about the market with the Godzilla topper was a big point of discussion. and then we already mentioned this but Dr. Jong with the Aussie Pinball Podcast episode 16 the one with Mike from Home Pin definitely worth listening to you're not disappointed we well I like our discussion I don't think we really did it the full justice we did pretty good you should really listen though there's a lot we didn't I mean there's so much to use we didn't hit on everything I don't think you would be able to live with yourself though if we did okay and then finally Pinball Party Podcast episode 32 came out where it was Jason with Kale and Rachel. Rachel's really good on that show. She was really good. She was, like, getting ready to reform Jason's entire life. Like, I think he was about to start a whole new career and everything. Career rehab. He's like, forget it. That's pretty much it that I know about. This week at TPN, a lot of continued streams, probably some podcasts coming out. Is Freeplay dead?
    107:27
    Maybe. I think Amanda's still been posting on the social media for it. And I think it's mostly her work schedule. I know. I should like tease her because she can take it. I don't think it's gone full Jessie J. She's tough. Oh, yeah.
    107:41
    Hey, if Jessie and Ryan want to put out another episode, we can all do it. We'll probably do it for a final round, too.
    107:49
    If they're able to get back. I know there were some disruptions to the recording routine, which resulted in some delays. I don't know if they're all back. Jeff was traveling. I'm not entirely sure he's all back. And I know that David's been talking about getting the next episode recorded, but I still think we're a little ways out on Silver Ball Chronicles. Yeah, become a crony yourself. I know they have the topic picked. I know that. I'm not going to say what it is. As long as it's something not so old. Like, I like history books. I was glad they finally did something that used reels. I'm waiting until they do an episode on Flickr list. Zach, there's just something weird to me. weird about doing a pinball history podcast and then everything you've done has got computer chips in it. What would Mike from HomePen think with all these motherboards they've talked about?
    108:39
    Alright, Dennis, we'll let you get the last word in. Okay, well I was just going to tell everyone to remember. I don't know why I say that. Yeah, it's not. I don't know. I just like to have everyone to remember that Care Bears stare and Care Cousins call.
    108:52
    And always practice safe pinball and although belated, happy Father's day to all of you pinball papas out there. I love you, Dad. And yes, of course, you too, Papa Creasel. And I can make you famous. Mix the top. Yes. Fucking A. Yeah, so we're doing all that. And the wife bought an in-ground grill. We're sticking with the in-ground theme. Okay. And we're going with an in-ground trampoline as well. So that's getting all prepped. Okay. I didn't even know those were a thing. But that'll be good when the wind comes and yours won't blow away. Exactly. Like in all those videos I watch, the Pale Army videos. Like a frisbee. Yes. And once they get air under them, whoosh, they're gone. And the kids love the trampoline, and I think they're an eye sore. So she was like, well, how about if we buy this? It goes in the ground. I'm like, I'm so sick of spending money, but I can compromise there because I hate the looks of a trampoline in the yard. So, yes, go ahead and let's submerge that son of a bitch in there as well. and the only thing that's an eyesore that's left, in my opinion, is the swing set. Like with the slides and the little monkey bodies. And so you're going to have a cave constructed. I told her. In the dungeon with the swing set. She picked up on it late and laughed, but I said, and if you want to, sweetie, why don't we go ahead and let's do an in-ground swing set too. And I said, I think that would be really cool. And you could tell the neurons, wait for it. And she was like, well, how would that? And then she was like, oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. Dig a big fucking hole. It's just the fact that your kid's swinging and trying to dodge like these stalactites. And they're a little caveman. They're a little golem's cave.
    110:43
    Give it to us, Ron. It's swinging. Press the stalagmites. You get three guesses, and I get to slide.
    111:02
    Oh, man. Poor Smeagol. Go check out the Pinball Show email, or go check out the Pinball Show. Yeah, come on. Log into our emails and read them. Pack them. They're actually not that interesting. Call them your own.
    111:23
    Thank you.