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Episode 1199: "Kaneda Live Show Where Chris Turner Calls In and Bryan From AP Gives Us Some Exclusive Info on 100 Run of Houdini"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·54m 57s·held·Mar 19, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.015

TL;DR

Live podcast: Whitewater 2 interview + American Pinball remaster strategy

Summary

Kaneda hosts a live Patreon podcast featuring an exclusive call-in interview with Chris Turner (Turner Pinball/Whitewater 2 designer) discussing design decisions on the upcoming Whitewater 2 game, followed by detailed commentary on American Pinball new ownership and plans to release a 100-unit limited Houdini remaster and Circus Voltaire remake.

Key Claims

  • Whitewater 2 has sold approximately half of its 500-unit run in one day (as of the podcast recording)

    high confidence · Chris Turner stated: 'There's only 500 being made. So we are close to halfway there. Okay. So in one day'

  • Turner Pinball designed a static Yeti instead of motorized after initially planning servo-controlled movement

    high confidence · Chris Turner explained: 'we thought so much about making the Yeti move. We actually have two servo outputs built into our system specifically for that Yeti, but we couldn't come up with a good way to use it'

  • Whitewater 2 base price is $10,000 with an 'all-in' edition including premium options

    high confidence · Kaneda asked: 'you're at $10,000 for the regular edition, and then you've got an all-in edition'

  • Whitewater 2 code is approximately 80% complete at show time, demonstrating 5 of 12 planned modes

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'Code wise in terms of completion? About 80%... we're demonstrating five out of the 12 modes'

  • American Pinball's Houdini remaster is limited to 100 units celebrating the 100th anniversary of Houdini's death

    high confidence · Kaneda stated: 'it is going to be a hundred units to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Houdini's death'

  • Houdini remaster expected to retail around $7,000-$7,500, positioning it below other new premium games

    medium confidence · Kaneda speculation: 'I think this game is going to come in around like $7,000 or $7,500'

  • Dennis Nordman was involved throughout Whitewater 2 development, providing original layout and CAD files from the Deep Root whitewood version

    high confidence · Chris Turner: 'Dennis he's so nice... he approached me... at TPF... and he was like hey... I'd really love to make this game'

  • Whitewater 2 avalanche multiball features a ball lock mechanism holding up to five balls with visible progression

    high confidence · Chris Turner described design philosophy: 'we need a huge ball lock mech where you can see the balls and you can see the progression. And then we need to make a pinball moment out of that mech, which is the avalanche multiball'

Notable Quotes

  • “There's no reason why that this thing should not move. There could not be the ability to put a servo underneath that Yeti and just have it move.”

    Kaneda @ early in Chris Turner call — Core criticism of design choice; establishes main point of contention about Whitewater 2

  • “We actually have two servo outputs built into our system specifically for that Yeti, but we couldn't come up with a good way to use it... Is that going to add anything to the game? And we didn't think so.”

    Chris Turner @ call-in interview — Designer's rationale for static Yeti; reveals intentional design decision, not limitation

  • “We have different voice actors that are actually all Canadian because obviously the Yukon region is in Canada.”

    Chris Turner @ call-in interview — Production detail showing attention to regional authenticity

  • “This will be the most mature code that we brought to a show for our first showing of a game.”

    Chris Turner @ call-in interview — Signals confidence in game readiness and manufacturing process improvement

  • “Theme is really driving sales, which I think is really cool. And so with Ninja and Merlin's, we didn't have that. We had to take it to shows. People had to play it.”

    Chris Turner @ call-in interview — Reveals IP nostalgia as dominant sales factor over gameplay for Whitewater 2

  • “We are close to halfway there. Okay. So in one day, and that's great. And the show hasn't even started yet.”

    Chris Turner @ call-in interview — Major sales signal: ~250 units sold pre-TPF

  • “I absolutely think these things are going to sell pretty instantly.”

    Kaneda @ American Pinball segment — Prediction about Houdini remaster sales success

  • “My company got bought and my vacation days got slashed so I had to choose Japan for my birthday.”

    Chris Turner — Personal context explaining absence from TPF; reveals new employment situation

Entities

Chris TurnerpersonKanedapersonDennis NordmanpersonBrian VincentpersonBrad DukepersonChristopher FranchipersonJohn Papadukeperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Whitewater 2 sold approximately 250 units (50% of 500-unit run) in first day of availability, before TPF debut; indicates exceptional pre-launch demand driven primarily by IP nostalgia

    high · Chris Turner: 'There's only 500 being made. So we are close to halfway there. Okay. So in one day'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Turner deliberately chose visible ball lock multiball over motorized Yeti feature based on player feedback about hidden ball locks in previous designs; shows iterative design learning

    high · Chris Turner: 'people were like, hey, if you can't see the balls locked on the playfield, you may as well not even have a lock... my focus was we need a huge ball lock mech where you can see the balls'

  • $

    market_signal: Community no longer experiences sticker shock at $10k pinball prices; premium machines now normalized to $10k+ tier with $7k positioned as 'value' alternative

    high · Kaneda: 'we are now living in a new pinball world where like 10 grand is not shocking to anybody. And I think because of that... we no longer look at 10 G as a sticker shock number'

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball under new ownership pursuing remaster strategy to retrain team on manufacturing fundamentals before attempting original designs; signals recognition of past quality/management failures

    high · Kaneda analysis: 'This company is getting their feet wet... They are training their people again how to make pinball... It's not gambling on an all new game where they need to nail it'

  • ?

    collector_signal: 100-unit Houdini remaster expected to sell out quickly; collector speculation about potential secondary market scalping opportunities

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.165

0:00
Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. It is the week of TPF. We are going to do a little bit of a live show right now. I just finished doing Wednesday Pizza Night with the kids. We got 32 dudes hanging out on Patreon right now. And we've got some pinball news to discuss. We're not going to do any editing. You're going to see Kaneda live. I've got a lot of feelings about what's going on in the pinball world right now. With all of those items being discussed in the pinball world. And so the reason I like doing every once in a while a live podcast is I can read some of the feedback from people as we're doing the show. So if you're here right now and you're on Patreon, first and foremost, thank you, each and every one of you, for being a Kaneda Club member. I still think we got the best club in all of pinball, and I really do appreciate all of your support. Every single week we do shows whenever the news is hitting. So Turner Pinball, a company that is driven by the mind of Chris Turner. He won all of like the deeproot auctions when the bankruptcy auction was happening down there in Texas. He worked for deeproot at some point in that company's history. I'm never quite sure. He's in the chat right now. Chris Turner, welcome to the chat right now. We're going to talk about this company, but I'm going to be candid, man. I'm going to be candid on this episode of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. I have to be honest about what I'm seeing in the game. I got to be honest about what I'm feeling about Houdini coming back with American Pinball because you know me, it is not in my interest to be in the interest of the manufacturers. And Chris, you know what? I'm going to be fair. I'm going to say stuff that I think is just capturing what I'm reading on pin side. And you know, it's just the way the pinball market is, but welcome to the show, brother. So here's the deal. Here's the deal. This game, this game is expensive. Okay, for what it is. And I have to start there because we've got the follow up to Whitewater 2. And so Whitewater is a classic game by Dennis Nordman. I'm not sure what year it was. I'm sure someone in the chat will tell me. I would assume Whitewater was somewhere around 1993 or 1994. And, you know, as a world under glass, I think Whitewater has always been a game that just knocked it out of the park when it comes to a world under glass. It had that crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy return ramp on the left side of the game. The Winning Pinball Show, Pinball N Out Pinball Podcast, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams, Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler. Now, it was a three flipper game. The third flipper was on the upper playfield. Had the whirlpool. It had all of those sculpts of the Rocky Mountains. And you know, it had that campy artwork. And of course, of course, maybe the most incredible part of Whitewater One was the topper, which had this cascading effect that to this day, I think is impossible to replicate. Nobody has ever replicated that white water topper on the secondhand market and ever truly nailed it. Okay, so Chris Turner brings us out Dennis Norman's follow up to this game. And Dennis Norman worked on this game while he was at deeproot. I was just looking at the deeproot sort of, what was it like the white wood of the game. It was like a foam core version of the game. And it's pretty true to that. I mean, it's pretty much exactly that now brought to market. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's how I want to talk about this game. And I'm talking about this game, ladies and gentlemen, right now. You might be listening to this as a podcast. I'm talking about this in the presence of the designer of the product, which is Chris Turner, who's in the chat right now. So here's the thing. Here's the thing.

  • Whitewater 2 has four flippers including an upper playfield flipper, and features a wavy rapids ramp on the left

    high confidence · Kaneda: 'there are four flippers' and Chris Turner discussing 'the rapids ramp, which is the wavy ramp on the left'

  • American Pinball's strategy involves remastering existing designs to train new team on manufacturing before attempting original games

    medium confidence · Kaneda analysis: 'This company is getting their feet wet... They are training their people again how to make pinball... It's like they're not gambling on an all new game'

    • @ closing remarks

  • “I've absolutely hold no grudges against the company that absolutely tried to destroy my job. David Fix tried to get me fired multiple times.”

    Kaneda @ American Pinball segment — Personal industry drama; shows Kaneda's past conflict with former AP leadership

  • “My background is like running a coding company. The last thing I want is to deliver like bad code for a game.”

    Chris Turner @ call-in interview — Establishes Turner's credentials and commitment to code quality

    • David Fix
    person
    Matt Andrewsperson
    John Norrisperson
    Sophiaperson
    Brian Allenperson
    Turner Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Whitewater 2game
    Houdini (American Pinball remaster)game
    Circus Voltaire (remaster)game
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Kaneda's Pinball Podcastorganization
    TPFevent

    medium · Kaneda: 'a hundred. I mean, that's like... There might even be the ability to scalp one of these things'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Kaneda's tone toward new American Pinball ownership is dramatically positive, contrasting sharply with prior negative experiences under David Fix's leadership; signals potential reconciliation/goodwill toward rebranded company

    high · Kaneda: 'I've absolutely hold no grudges... I am like really, really, really excited... for the new American Pinball'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Turner Pinball chose modern 'painterly' art style over 1990s throwback aesthetic for Whitewater 2; designer publicly states dislike of original Whitewater cabinet art as outdated

    high · Chris Turner: 'I love Whitewater as a game, but I don't like the art personally... It is not great... it's really dated... I wouldn't want to use the original, I would want to redo it'

  • ?

    content_signal: Kaneda's Patreon live show format enables real-time designer interviews with Chris Turner; demonstrates platform value for exclusive industry commentary

    high · Live call-in interview with Chris Turner conducted via phone during podcast; Kaneda notes unusual nature of format and plans to continue

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Chris Turner's company was acquired; indicates consolidation or ownership changes in boutique pinball market; Turner personally experienced corporate benefits reduction post-acquisition

    high · Chris Turner: 'My company got bought and my vacation days got slashed so I had to choose Japan for my birthday'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Whitewater 2 designed for easier upper playfield access compared to original Whitewater; emphasizes loopable shots with fast ball recovery to upper flipper

    high · Chris Turner: 'when I play Whitewater you know I like trying to make it to the upper playfield... I think people will find this where they can get to the upper playfield more easily'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Theme/IP licensing now primary driver of sales even before players experience gameplay; Turner Pinball observed fundamentally different sales dynamic with Whitewater vs. original designs

    high · Chris Turner: 'Theme is really driving sales... With Ninja and Merlin's, we didn't have that. We had to take it to shows. People had to play it... But with this game, just the theme alone is driving sales'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Whitewater 2 bringing 80% code-complete game to first public showing; represents most mature debut code for Turner Pinball; signals manufacturing process maturity and confidence

    high · Chris Turner: 'out of any game that we brought to a show to date, this will be the most mature code that we brought to a show for our first showing of a game'

    • 4:59
    I couldn't get over one thing, Chris, and I got to ask you right now, and this is great that I've got you here right now. I just don't know how you make the sequel, the spiritual sequel, the physical sequel, the literal sequel to Whitewater in which the most iconic and memorable mech in that entire game is the Yeti that is motorized, that moves, that's covered in fur. For the follow up to that game, 33 years later, 33 years later, the follow up has a static Yeti. To me, it's like how? No, no, no, you've got to nail that first. So I don't get how you can follow up what was one of the most iconic mechs of the 90s The world under glass, and make it static. Can you call me so we can chat? Chris, no, this is not a live show. This is a pinball podcast. I wasn't even going to do a live, but I don't need to chat about it, brother. I'll tell you why. There's no reason why. You can't tell me. You could write this right now. There's no reason why that this thing should not move. There could not be the ability to put a servo underneath that Yeti and just have a move. I mean, even Pikachu moves back and forth. Even the damn Pokeball shakes. It's not impressive, but it does move. So I think first and foremost, as people see this game for the first time, that is going to be an element that is a bit of a letdown. I think it's a big letdown for people that love the game itself. So what we could do right now, Chris, I mean, I haven't done this before. And again, there's no call in here. What we can do now is why don't you call my cell and I will hold it up to the mic. It's not going to be the best sound quality, but we will do our best to see how that works. Is that is that fair? Does it would everybody like to have Chris Turner dial in and I will hold it up to the Chris, I'm going to call you right now and we're going to do a little bit of a live thing. But this is not going to be a 30 minute interview here because I still want to talk about American pinball. So let's see if we can get him. Chris, Chris, let me message you and I'll get back to you soon. He's going to voicemail! Chris! He has my number. He has my number! And when he calls, we will pick up. So I want to make sure we clear out the phone lines, but we will definitely try and call him back. It says call failed. I'm trying, okay? He's trying again. Alright, let's see, let's see. I don't know if it's because I'm on the computer here. Let's try again. Hold on. We might have been calling each other at the same time. Hold on. It's going to be Scratchy, people. Hey, what's up? All right, can you guys hear? Okay, Chris, how you doing, brother? Let's just do a little sound check here. Can you guys hear? I'm good. I'm great, Chris. Thank you for having me on. All right. All right. Okay. So, you know, this is the burning question. This is the burning question. The Yeti. Talk to me. Yeah. Yeah. So first of all, you got to know, I mean, I'm always trying to learn and do the best we can do, Chris. So we talked a lot about this on the team, and I'm always trying to figure We're really excited to have you on the show, and we hope you enjoy the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm going to turn it over to you, David. Thank you. I'm going to start off with a little bit of a quick introduction. So, we've got the big moving Merlin mech. He like rotates and he moves his arms and everything. And I kind of, when we put that out, I really expected people to be like, kind of wowed by that. I was like, man, we've built this cool thing. It's got two servos in it. It really articulates the moves. We also combined like 3D printing with like cloth. So he's got like this kind of cloth overcoat and I thought people would notice those things. And it's like I really try to pay attention to like what do people say and what do they notice and we didn't get anything about the moving Merlin. And I did get some criticisms about like the way we block balls. So we lock balls in the subway under the playfield. And basically people were like, hey, if you can't see the balls locked on the playfield, you may as well not even have a lock. And that was very interesting and insightful to me. And so what I did with this game is my focus was we need a huge ball lock mech where you can see the balls and you can see the progression. And then we need to make a pinball moment out of that mech, which is the avalanche multiball. And so that's what we focused on. And I will say, I mean, we thought so much about making the Yeti move. We actually have two servo outputs built into our system specifically for that Yeti, but we couldn't come up with a good way to use it. I was like, we can make his head turn, but is that going to add anything to the game? And we didn't think so. So what we did instead was we made a Yeti head topper. So our premium topper is like a huge Yeti. And he moves with the game. Like basically like you make a jackpot, you tilt, like you hit shots in the game during avalanche multiball. He's constantly moving and interacting and like looking at you and blinking. And it's like, that is our moving Yeti. So like, I get that people see the original Whitewater and they go, oh, like the Yeti could turn his head and he was a diverter. But in our game, we've got that huge ball neck in place of that. And then we've got the topper that is the moving Yeti. So this was the best we could come up with. And, you know, I can't say that we always get things right and we won't, but we're always trying to learn and do the best we can. So that's that's what we did on this game. I'm a fan of the game and you know if we have to learn from this and continue to tweak we will. I will say that the sales response to this game has been incredible and just I think it shows me how much the matters and the recognition of this as a nostalgic IP is huge for this and it's really helpful. Right. And I know how good if sales been today? I mean, can you give me a ballpark? I know it's always secretive. There's only 500 being made. So we are close to halfway ready. Okay. So in one day, and that's great. And the show hasn't even started yet. Yeah, exactly. So and I see this with other games and it's very interesting to me. So, you know, we, no one's played this game. It plays great. We're taking it to the show. We're excited. We want people to play it because I think they're going to love it when they play it.
    12:02
    But to have phenomenal sales when people haven't played a game, it shows that theme is really driving sales, which I think is really cool. And so with Ninja and Merlin's, we didn't have that. We had to take it to shows. People had to play it. They had to like it and then they would buy it. But with this game, just the theme alone is driving sales, which is really cool and it's different for us in particular because of the unlicensed themes that we've done so far. Right. There's a pedigree there with Whitewater and Dennis. Have you sold more of these already than Merlin or is it? Yes. Wow. Okay. All right. So, okay. So, and then the locking ball, Mick, which is really cool. It has like this cascading sort of waterfall effect. And how many balls are getting locked in that area? Up to five. Okay. And there's four flippers. What's your favorite shot in the game? Oh, it's definitely the avalanche. Like shooting the stairs and then getting avalanche multiball is kind of the big thing in the game. And then the second thing that I would say would be the rapids ramp, which is the wavy ramp on the left. And so it's a late shot on the upper flipper to the bottom. The Loops Around, The Rapids Round, it's a really fun shot. And that upper playfield is very loopable in a way that you can get back to the upper playfield in a lot of ways. If you fall off it, it comes right back and feeds that flipper, the upper kind of mid-right flipper, and then you can shoot the shot to get right back up. So like when I play whitewater you know I like trying to make it to the upper playfield and then I miss my shots up there all the time And then it takes me a little bit to get back up I think people will find this where they can get to the upper playfield more easily Awesome and then one other thing and it great that I have you and thanks for dialing in man I always
    13:57
    Yeah, I know totally totally I wish I look I wish I could do this every time but I usually do my show at like 7 in The morning so it's always hard So the the other thing I've read a lot is like there's people that are like, oh, you know You know, like, the original art style was very, like, unique to the game. Was there ever any thought to sort of trying to mirror that? I know this art style looks a lot more like Merlin and Ninja Clips. What's the, uh, who did the art and was there ever any consideration to trying to make it look more like throwback 90s? So, Brad Duke did the art. He also did the art for our other two games, Ninja and for Merlin's. And when we were working with Brad on the art on this game, we wanted it to be a little different. We didn't say we wanted to be throwback 90s. I mean, my personal opinion, I love Whitewater as a game, but I don't like the art personally. It is not great, right? Yeah, so it's like, I mean, it's really dated in my opinion, especially the cabinet art. It's just, it's rough. But Brad's idea was he wanted to do what he calls a painterly style. And we actually have original, like an original set of art that he did that was, it kind of looked like the other stuff that he had done for other games. And we weren't quite sure if it was working and Brad's like, hey, I want to try this other thing. I'm going to have to go back and redo a lot of stuff, but I really think it's going to make this game stand out. And I was like, let's do it. And so he did it and everybody loved it. It changed the look of the Yeti a lot. And I think it made him look like the fur, especially kind of like just more flowing and stuff. So anyway, we went with this painterly style. It's a little different than our other games, but it's definitely a different look than the 90s Whitewater. But I never had a thought to say, oh, we should make it look like that because I don't know, even if I was remaking a game like that, I wouldn't really want to use the original. I would want to redo it, but maybe that's a mistake. I'm not sure. I mean, again, all of these are very subjective, right? And ultimately, the market will determine what is a mistake and what is a good decision. Exactly. Talk to me. The last question I have, Chris, and then I'll let you go, and then I got to get on with American Pinball and all this stuff happening. The all-in edition, so you're at $10,000 for the regular edition, and then you've got an all-in edition. What's the difference between those two models? Yep, so the all-in addition, what we did is we separated out some of the options of the game where you can do like an a la carte or you can get all of them together in a package. And these options are Invisiglass, Shaker, Knocker, RGB speaker lights, Art Blades. We have these like nylon sliders on the back of the cabinet. We're doing like a theme dust cover for the game. It's like those are all the options and then we've obviously got the the Yeti head topper which is called the Northern Mites topper and Then we have the the standard topper which is just the flat plastic So if you want a package that includes all the options plus the premium topper That's what we call the all-in package Michael L. Shitball, Richie seguir, Zach Rycin, Follow Scotland, Richard Keefe, Kealey Hans, jetpacker040, Spending their Wednesday night on this Patreon Live. Any questions that you guys want me to ask Chris, while we have him right here? Now is your time, or forever hold your peace. I'm gonna turn these live podcasts into a thing coming up.
    17:57
    You should man, it's cool. The internet connected features, are there any? Yes, so you guys have probably heard of our Pin Access system, and we've got a lot planned We are beta testing that with customers, but it's not like publicly released yet. But we've got a lot of neat stuff coming with that. And yes, all our games will have internet connected features and like achievements and all sorts of cool stuff. We just need time to work on it. And we've been so we've been crunching on this game for like months. So we'll have a little bit of a breather after the show and be able to get back to that and then hopefully get to a public release of that soon. Cool. And another question here, Chris. Was Dennis Nordman involved at all in this? Yes. So this is, I mean, this is Dennis's layout. You know the history of this, I think, as well as a lot of people. He started this game. It's my understanding that he started this game with deeproot and it got to like a phone core state at that time. And he had like the the cat files for that and Dennis approached me oh man I think it was at a TPF it's probably like TPF 23 maybe and he was like hey like you know I know you got this stuff from deeproot like I'd really love to make this game. Dennis he's so nice and he just wants to get games made I think he's had a lot of struggle with that and so he was like yeah I'd really love to make this and I was like I was like, yeah, we should do it. And so it was kind of something that he was working on with an engineer named Sophia that he really enjoys working with. And so we worked with her and Dennis and they kind of took that white wood or I should say a foam quarter, foam core model. And then they worked on that and got kind of a more 3D CAD of that done. And then my team took that and then we made the white wood from that and then continued to like define the mix and refine everything. But yeah, he was involved in the whole process and he's going to be a TPF. He is super excited. Got a question here about the music in the game, the inspiration for the music. And is that the music from the trailer? It's got a little bit of like a ragtime. Yeah, so like Dennis's vision for the music like he he wanted it to feel like a little The Old School And so, yeah, that's that is some music that's like out of mode theme music in the game. Okay. Now, is there ever a moment where like if Dennis does have an idea that's like you're like, really, man, really? Like, is it hard to say no to someone? It's like his design. It's his vision. It's his property. And you're like, are we putting it? Are we putting this music in? You know, is there ever any like, do you find it difficult to push back on a designer who's got a vision?
    20:57
    I don't know. I mean, I try to be respectful, but I think as a team, we kind of decide what makes the most sense. And I think everybody here really likes it. But again, it's a subjective thing. So we'll see. Out of anything that we could change in a game, that's like the easiest thing to change. So if you know, but let's say we went to TPF, and everyone's like, Oh, man, like, really not into that or whatever, like, we could look at something different. But I hope that as people play it, they kind of see how it fits the theme. I mean, we work with the fans and we're like, Hey, you know what? Actually, I think this really fits. Yeah. So that's my hope. And then who did the call out some very animated call outs there?
    21:34
    We have different voice actors that are actually all Canadian because obviously the Yukon region is in Canada. And so we, we hired Canadian voice actors and actresses to, to voice those parts. And yeah, some of them are pretty animated, especially the Jackknife Jessie character. She's like, you know, yee ha. I just like yelling. Yeah. But it's funny. What's the code at right now in terms of completion? About 80%. So we, how many modes are in there, Matthew? My whole team is still here. We're all working. Yeah. You're like, I'm on with Kaneda. They're like, oh man. They're like, hang up. Let's finish this game. So mode wise for the show, we're demonstrating five out of the 12 modes. But like code wise in percentage, like it's, it's much higher than five 12ths. It's, it's more like 80%, but it's just the way the code is. Like there's a lot of out of mode stuff and a lot of kind of foundational stuff. So by the time we ship, well, first of all, we were talking about this earlier. Out of any game that we brought to a show to date, this will be the most mature code that we brought to a show for our first showing of a game. And then, um, anytime we ship a game, I mean, the code is basically really close to being done. Maybe we have like a wizard mode to code or like we're going to add more features or something, but it's, we're adding things like co-op and different things that will add more value to the game over time. Not, not things that people are going to be like, Hey, this, this game feels incomplete. Like, I mean, my background is like running a coding company. The last thing I want is to deliver like bad code for a game. And this game is the sequel to Whitewater. Is the in the code and in the storyline of this game, is it going to acknowledge that? Is there going to be like throwback moments? What's the narrative like?
    23:31
    So John Norris wrote a lot of the rules for this game. And so John is like an encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to rules for games. And so it's really been great to work with him for that. Dennis was super happy to be working with John on this.
    23:48
    And so, John, obviously we don't want to just make it like the Whitewater rules and we're not, you know, we can't even do that if we wanted to just based on IP stuff. But we do want it to feel like familiar and so I think when people play this, they are gonna understand and feel things that are nostalgic that they liked about Whitewater. Alright, last question from Don. And I'm not sure if Don's trolling me or this is a... is there a speaker upgrade, kid? Or is he just talking about my show audio quality? Is there a speaker upgrade in this or no? Uh, yeah, so if, uh, people can look kind of back to Ninja Eclipse, the first edition, it had no RGB speaker lights and it had like four-inch speakers. So our upgrade is like RGB circle around the speakers and then a five-inch speaker. Tim Kitzrow, Director, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Barry Oursler, Boutique space with limited games is just where the enticement lies in pinball these days. So congratulations and we'll chat soon, brother. Hey, thanks so much, man. I appreciate you letting me jump on and it's always great to talk with you. I'm sorry you're not going to be at TPL. Yeah. It would have been great to see you there. I know. Well, my company got bought and my vacation days got slashed so I had to choose Japan for my birthday. I know, I know. Corporate America these days, the benefits just not there. Chris, be good and we'll chat soon. All right. Take care, Chris. Bye-bye. All right. Well, that was awesome and that was fun and that was unexpected. Hopefully the sound was all right. Hopefully you guys on – let's see. I'm sure Audacity is still going. We're still going here. I love it. I love hearing from people who work on these games and we got a lot of answers there that The Wally Winka Podcast is brought to you by the Wally Winka Podcast Network. I think it's going to happen if there's room to add anything. I think the mod community might actually make that Yeti move. Why the door just opened, Brenda? Oh my God, Brenda's in his room. I look over and the door is open and I'm hearing all this TV. You think, you think, you think she would see that I'm in my studio here. Okay, so here's the thing, here's the thing. I think it's absolutely bonkers that at 10k almost half of these games are spoken for already. And I didn't ask if that was sold through. I should have asked that. Is it sold through half of them to distros or sold to customers? In his mind, he doesn't care because that's his sale. But we are now living in a new pinball world where like isn shocking to anybody And I think because of that you know we no longer look at 10 G as a sticker shock number And you know we not We not I your host David Van Es and I see you next time on Pinball Pedigree
    27:53
    © 2012 The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Barry Oursler. The Winning Pinball Show, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams,
    28:53
    This is the same amount of money as a Beetlejuice. Now, Harry Potter, Beetlejuice, Yukon Yeti, clearly not, not the same stuff you're getting. But here's the thing. It's all about the limited edition nature of the games. So you know, Beetlejuice, there's only going to be a thousand of them basically. And that's why I mean, I think out of all the games, you know, Harry Potter, both the Wizard Edition and the CEs are unlimited. That's why I think Harry Potter is going to have a moment where like it goes over the edge. And when Harry Potter goes over the edge, you're going to be able to pick up potters almost the same way you can pick up Guns N' Roses machines. There are just going to be so many of them and I just think once Sonic hits and you know maybe Ghostbusters and whatever is in the future for JJP, it's not to say that Harry Potter is not great. They're just going to over make them and they're going to over make them by nature because none of them are limited. And because there's not a single version that's limited, I am worried that Harry Potter one All of these are great, and I'm sure that one day we'll just go over the edge. 500 Yukon Yetis, will it ever go up in value? I don't think so. I would be happy to see Kris sell all 500. I think he'd be happy with that. I don't think this is going to be a game that goes from like 10 or 12, you know, and where people are paying over like they are right now for Winchester. So that is Yukon Yeti, the Dennis Nordman, Whitewater sequel. Kris Turner jumped on the show for a little bit. It's going to be at TPF. president of HQ If wildcard.com PPI hideout app.io hasslip The Los Angeles Standard Fireball They have some outside
    30:44
    store ibil Nan Mango Trozo, a star at pinball.com So here's the thing, here's the thing. Let's talk about the other thing happening in the pinball world right now, which is American pinball. And American pinball is bringing back Houdini. And I know a little bit more than most, I know that it is going to be a hundred units to celebrate the 100th anniversary of Houdini's death. Not his birth, his death. The man was killed, right? I think he died in one of his own stunts, right? Didn't he die in one of his chains or he got stuck? I think so, or maybe I'm wrong. I thought, I don't know, maybe I'm making this up. I thought he died unable to escape one of his own contraptions. So, this game is gonna have a Christopher Franchi new art package on the cabinet that is going to look inspired by the Matt Andrews artwork that was on the John Popaduke version of Houdini. Are you confused? You probably should be. If you don't know the backstory, John Popadiuk designed a Houdini game for American Pinball years ago, and it was in the Zidware cabinet, and it didn't work. And Matt Andrews did the artwork, and it was stunning, but another stunning J-pop disaster, where there were shots to nowhere, and there were things in the game that just wouldn't work, ี้reshold Free Talksitectures, The Financial servants of LaSalle, Landers lodges or coupon codes. After A commanded Intern 1996 John Pop Paduke Re wykalle & Teess Gluckba I got the shit he's gonna make it look great okay and then I'm gonna look over from the beautiful Franchi cabinet and I'm gonna see the same old steampunk Houdini playfield which I never liked I always thought it was too dark they let Josh Coogler make that decision he's not an art director he made a terrible decision by shelving the Matt Andrews artwork so it's gonna have the original Houdini Okay, now it's going to be something other that's... See, it's late. I'm like, I don't know. I normally I would edit out some of these mistakes, but I'm going to let you hear that Kaneda is human. It's going to have the ugly back box. So even though it's going to have the Franchi artwork, it's going to have the ugly back box. And what I mean by the ugly back box is the actual back box design, that wavy, humongous, crushed act box that was a David fix decision that they finally got rid of later on with some other later titles like You We're already going to make a nicer version of Houdini. And look, Houdini right now on the secondhand market is like a $5,000 to $6,000 game. So when this game comes out, it's going to be interesting because it's going to be priced, I think, in a place that's going to be enticing where everything else is 10. So I think this game is going to come in around like $7,000 or $7,500. So if I told you that right now, how do you feel now about that? A new Houdini, new Franchi artwork on the cabinet, $7,500. Now I had a really, really great conversation today with Brian who is the owner of American Pinball. And as I was saying on my show over the last few weeks, the move here and the move with the next game they're doing, which is a remastering of a Bally Williams game, which we now know is Circus Voltaire. The move here is simply this. This company is getting their feet wet. New ownership, new American pinball, new logo, new everything, right? They are training their people again how to make pinball and how to bring quality pinball to the market. So, I mean, it makes sense. You've got Houdini designed. You've got parts lying around. You've got the ability to make a hundred of these games. What a great game to teach, you know, some of your new team members to build a pinball machine, to witness through osmosis what a pinball manufacturing company is like. I think it's smart. It's like they're not gambling on an all new game where they need to nail it and they don't have the experience yet as a new company doing it because it's an all new company for the most part. So I think it's smart. And then they're going to go from here to Circus Voltaire. Brian Allen on the art package there. Is that some exclusive? I don't think so. Brian Allen's been working on this thing and it's going to be a reimagined Circus Voltaire. I'm hearing that it is very nice. I'm hearing that it is spectacular and I'm thinking, you know, if you want a Circus Voltaire, this, you know, hopefully they nail it the way CGC nailed the remakes of the older games and Circus Voltaire is nothing to sort of sneeze at if they really do make it so it's enjoyable in a home environment and that is the goal. But you know, if we just stay on Houdini for a minute, do I think they will sell 100 Houdinis With Christopher Franchi cabinets, original Houdini Playfield artwork, same layout, they didn't change the design at all. Are they going to get it done? Are they going to sell it with just 100 units? And I think they will. And 100 units at $7,000, because remember, I think it's going to be priced just a little bit more than a Stern Pro. I think it's going to sell out pretty instantly. And I think people are going to want to support the new company too. And there's just going to be, I think, a nice goodwill effort. And so it's still Houdini. And that's the other thing too. I mean, Houdini, it's iconic, you know? And it's not going to cost everybody an arm and a leg. It's going to be half the price of like a Harry Potter CE. And also people forget this. Houdini still has, even though the layout, ball store, I don't know what he was doing. I don't know how many he had in him when he designed some of these shots because it was way too tight. It still has like a lot of mechs. Houdini is not an empty game. Houdini is not a game where the code is unenjoyable or unfinished. You're getting a fully finished coded game with arguably one of the coolest mechs in all of modern pinball, that milk can shot that fires the ball all the way down the playfield. I absolutely, I absolutely think these things are going to sell pretty instantly. So Franchi did the back glass as well. So Brian, who's in the house right now, Brian, I almost feel like calling you now, brother. We got, ladies and gentlemen, Brian Vincent here, who's in chat, is the new owner of American Pinball. And Brian, it was very, very nice talking to you today. Um, I'm very, very excited for the new American Pinball. I've absolutely hold no grudges against the company that absolutely tried to destroy my job. David Fix tried to get me fired multiple times. And so like I, you know what I'm saying? Like I know none of that was you guys and I am like really, really, really excited. So Brian, when are we going to see, when are we going to see, um, when are we going to see this game? Is it going to be Thursday, Friday? elli fluffy and ross whiten negri
    40:00
    I almost want you know, this is what the funny thing about Single 1991 thrill 4 Going is only going to be a hundred Houdini all of a sudden. usi I'm feeling some FOMO. I'm feeling like maybe I should like grab one. I don't know. There might even be the ability to scalp one of these things, you know, a hundred. I mean, that's like not many, not many. You know, it's always good about knowing. All right, so tomorrow we're going to see the game. That's great. So, you know, and Chris, sorry, Chris, I got Chris Turner still in my like, my vocabulary. So, Brian, tomorrow will be the pricing. I mean, Brian, I mean, you could. We got you here right now. Like you could, you could give these 56 people here an exclusive on what the price of the game is going to be. I mean, technically, Brian, half of the games could be sold to the people tuning in right now. I mean, it's not a huge number tuned in, not a lot of games you need to sell. Check your text. Okay, well, can I read my text? Let's see this. Let's see this right now. This is fun doing these live shows I mean anything can happen Anything can happen I love that we doing it on Patreon too Alright here here we go All right Okay can I read this text Brian I mean, I just want to make sure it's cool. You're cool with that because I think we can... All right, he's at the airport. He's heading to TPF. Okay, let me read you what Brian said. I think he said yes. He said yes. My connection is spotty too. I don't know what's going on here. The price will be $7,999 includes new art package and backglass plus interactive multi-layer topper included. That's great. I am literally, I don't know what it is, I'm just like still tired from Ireland. Multi-layer topper included. Well, that's great. All right. There's the extra, you know, 500 bucks, you know, from the price I was at. I want to show you we can get games out. Okay. On the line 90 days after start. Okay. So we want to show we're going to get games out on the line 90 days after start, starting production this week and all games. This is it. This is an important line here, people. All games will be shipped complete within 30 days at the latest. So this game is going to be unveiled tomorrow and shipped to customers within a month. And that is why you're going to sell all 100, bro, because this isn't some, you know, like that's crazy. Like that means you're going to ship more of these than they've shipped of Winchester's in like seven months almost. So this is a good The Wally Winka Show, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams,
    43:19
    How quick this company can make games and how many they can crank out a week and a month is because David Fix was calling the shots and nobody wanted his games. You know what I'm saying? It's like they had everything lined up. They had the facility, they had the lines, like everything ready to go and then David Fix dropping his ideas into that manufacturing facility. And what's exciting about this new American pinball is I think people are going to be surprised at what this company can produce, the efficiency at which they can produce, and I think they're going to be surprised how quick they're going to get their games when they're used to waiting a lot longer, you know, from companies that are far more established. So really, really, really exciting time to have, you know, a lot of these boutiques waking up. I mean, it's exciting to see Turner have, you know, excitement for that game way better than, than a Merlin's Arcade. Um, I know, Fix makes me want to cry too. I'm still, you know how much money that man cost me? I won't even tell you. Like one day, I feel like one day I'll tell you the whole story, but I'll tell you this. If you knew how much money David Fix cost me personally and out of my family's pocket when I had a newborn baby, gotta remember this. The Summer working on games two and three in active development. All right. Well, I mean, I assumed so. I assumed this wasn't it. But all good, man. I just think there's a lot of good energy. I think there's a lot of good vibes happening in the pinball space. And I think there's more people we're now rooting for than rooting against. And I think the prices are high though. Nothing's going to change that. Nothing's going to change the price of things. What's really going to happen now, and I keep saying this, is it's just going to be a requirement now that these companies give you the value. You can't make pinball machines anymore for $7,000 fully loaded. It's just not happening. So in a world in which you're around $8,000 to $15,000 for pinball machines, depending The Wally Winka Show, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, Straight Down the Middle, Bally Williams,
    46:01
    Bally Winka Show, Knapp Arcade, Bally Winka, The Wally Winka Show, Knapp Arcade, Bally Winka I was thinking about this today. I was like, what is the point of even buying a Pokemon premium right now? Just think about it.
    46:18
    Why? They're going to make Pokemon premium for years. The code's not going to be done for a year. And why would you lock in 9,700 bucks now when, and again, it's an unlimited game that's not even finished. And then by the time the code is even where it should be at launch, you're going to be able to blocked beta verde ventura. such instant death. pretty fat. missy narcissus. prophecy. frustrated foreman. motivo. lost is all. I sayителей ofости, delirium. pay attention to his list. man です facebook.complacebook.comm. calfbird3. Weetemplander the haut. screenroom. Sonia by I think there's just a lot of exciting stuff coming. And I think about my own position in this hobby, and I'm still going to call it like I see it. I'm still going to say like the Yeti should have moved. I mean, that's simple. I would love and I know they would have loved. I would love franchise art to be on everything in this game, not just here and there. But ultimately, I can't get mad at companies that are just giving us options. And then it's your choice. All this, now look, would I go in on a Houdini, $79.99, Franchi artwork, and a topper included with only 100 of this trim ever in the world? No brainer. I almost want to ask Brian to just hold me one, because I just think these games are going to be gone like that. And then, Franchi's got his own following. This is now going to be the second rarest franchise package next to Batman SLE. Not bad. You know, it's good. It's supposed to be like you get followings. Scalp City. No, it's like... You sell me your prototype? Let me see right now. Hold on a second. Who's... Is Cointaker your distributor?
    48:37
    Automate, hold on a second. Yeah, you sell through automated too, right? Hold on. Let me, let me do this. Let me do this. I'm all about like live right now.
    48:49
    We're gonna, we're gonna do another. I'll see if I can get this guy live. Well, it's nice to know I've got your prototype. Houdini for 30k. Frank DeAngelo. I've called Frank DeAngelo, okay. Alright, let's see, let's see, let's see. See. I know I kind of like getting a Houdini in here as part of the rotation. You know, I'll tell you this man, the other thing I like too, I like that it's like eight grand. I don't know, to me like eight grand feels like, all right, like, oh, hold on. Frank. You know. All right, you're on, you're on, you're on live. I just want to let you know that. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay. Okay, well, you know, try to sound a little bit more excited. I got a question. Are you guys, you guys are also distributing the new Houdini, right? Oh, yeah, American Pinball, yeah. Okay. Do you know your allotment? Of what, the Houdini? Yeah, there's only a hundred. I think we only got a couple. All right, did you sell them yet? You're live. Oh, good. You don't have to lie. Did you sell them? Am I putting you on the spot? You want to hang up? I'm just reading a book right now. This is my quiet time. Okay. All right. So, let me, I'll call you after. All right. I'll talk to you in a little bit. All right. Bye. Like a good guy. Yeah. That's gonna be a pretty 1990 truc DE names. I could sell a hundred of anything. I mean, it's just no kickbacks.
    51:18
    It's a quiet time. So, Yeah, I mean, I, I, I've always said man, I've always said that Houdini was a game where the art really let it down the most. I know there's a few tight shots in there, but man, like the code was always fun and The like, it's got mechs galore. The other game I always tell people is like, and please Brian, do never remake this game, is Oktoberfest, but the amount in Oktoberfest is huge. Killian is, sleep under Houdini. Alright, so we've been going for a while now, because this is the thing, when I go live, I can talk way longer than a show. I'm not even going to edit this show. We've been talking for 52 minutes. Okay, this is good. This is a good show. This is everybody getting their money's worth. I'm going to definitely be doing more shows this week. TPF is going to have even more surprises. More Pokemons are making their way out there. Pokemon Ali's are about to go out like any day now. It's a really good time to be in pinball. I just want to say thank you to each and every one of you who is a subscriber. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I go in every day and I have to ask for work. I go in every day and I have to sell clients on ideas and it's not easy and it gets harder and the media landscape is more fractured than it's ever been before and everybody's nervous. Nobody knows what to do and I don't have control. To the best of my ability, I try to come up with ideas. Some days I just have like writer's block and I just want to get inspired but I still got a bill eight hours a day, eight hours a day, eight hours a day and it's hard. kimchi and diet break up cards right no reason why I don't do a limit with kids okoldtinho ничiver Here is your West Coast manifesto. But yeah, feel free to subscribe to the channel for more awesome things. Thanksauri- funcion Stevens $50,000 pinball machines. You get the most entertaining pinball content creator on the planet and it costs you this much, but you're definitely getting your money's worth. Congratulations to Chris Turner on your new game and to Brian and the team over at American Pinball. Can't wait to see what they have coming in the future and tomorrow we're gonna see this Franchi art package. I think it's gonna be a day one sellout and it's gonna be fun. Everybody, Kaneda out! Out. All right. Well, that's just me ending the audacity. I'm just going to keep this too so you can see how it goes. Love you guys.