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Ep 74: 100k by Christmas?! with Zach Meny

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 24m·analyzed·Dec 10, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Loser Kid hits 100k listens; Zach Meny discusses awards drama and predicts Rush will break Stern's winter curse.

Summary

Loser Kid Pinball Podcast celebrates reaching 100,000 listens with guest Zach Meny from Flip N Out Pinball, who gives away Mandalorian merchandise. The episode covers industry news including Zach's departure from the Pinball Industry Awards (Crystals), Twippies voting, the "Winter Curse" affecting December/January Stern releases, and speculation about an upcoming Rush pinball machine by John Borg.

Key Claims

  • Loser Kid Pinball Podcast has surpassed 100,000 listens

    high confidence · Josh and Scott explicitly celebrate crossing 100k during the opening segment

  • Zach Meny is stepping back from the Pinball Industry Awards (Crystals) and will not be involved in hosting or organizing this year

    high confidence · Zach directly states: 'I can say here on your show, I haven't talked about it yet, I'm not going to be a part of the crystals this coming year' and explains his reasons relating to creative control and community reception

  • Beatles pinball had weak sales initially, with only 1,966 units produced, but Stern ran a second production order later

    high confidence · Zach explains: 'they only made 1,966 of them and they thought they were all produced yet they just ran another order'

  • Godzilla limited edition (1,000 units) sold out in approximately 24 hours

    high confidence · Zach states Godzilla LE 'were gone like hotcakes in the first what? Let's be generous, 24 hours?'

  • A Rush pinball machine by John Borg may be the winter 2024/2025 Stern release

    medium confidence · Josh and Zach speculate based on designer schedules: 'So we do Borg and the hypothetical or the rumored, my air quotes, Rush' and note 'The supposed, the alleged artwork' was shown in Godzilla prototype

  • Stern accidentally showed Rush artwork in a Godzilla prototype display

    medium confidence · Josh states: 'the rumored Rush, which was accidentally shown the artwork in the Godzilla prototype'

  • Iron Maiden playfield is more desirable than Led Zeppelin's on the secondary market, despite Led Zeppelin being the better-known band

    high confidence · Zach observes: 'people vastly prefer the layout of Iron Maiden, which is why it's harder to get an Iron Maiden than it is to get a Led Zeppelin on the secondary market'

  • Stranger Things license expired and sparked renewed interest in the game afterward (Pirates of the Caribbean effect)

Notable Quotes

  • “I am taking a step back from the crystals and I will not be a part of it for better orders... I've learned over the last three, four, five years in media, guys, that for some reason, whenever I help create something or something new to this industry, it can be a bit dichotomous on the reception.”

    Zach Meny @ ~11:00-13:00 — Reveals major industry decision and hints at interpersonal tensions around award shows and media politics

  • “I feel like sometimes I'm the weakest link by trying to be the strongest link... whenever I help create something, it's like, oh, well. So I'm like, yeah, let's just take a year off, sit in the stands and root on everybody.”

    Zach Meny @ ~13:30-14:30 — Indicates community reception issues and burnout from industry politics

  • “The curse is over... Stern could definitely produce Laundry Day right now and it would be backordered. Just because, you know, right now, yeah, Keith Elwin, exactly. And you strap a sticker on it and make it pinball, then absolutely right now.”

    Zach Meny @ ~28:00-29:00 — Comments on current market demand and supply constraints making the winter curse irrelevant

  • “people vastly prefer the layout of Iron Maiden, which is why it's harder to get an Iron Maiden than it is to get a Led Zeppelin on the secondary market.”

    Zach Meny @ ~35:00 — Reveals secondary market dynamics and playfield design impact on collector value

  • “If you qualify for a 401k then you can officially say anything you listen to is dad rock.”

    Josh Roop @ ~48:00 — Humorous definition that encapsulates the dad rock discussion and generational music preferences

  • “I wouldn't mind it. Would you do a crossover with NSYNC or would it just be strictly be JT? Man, Justin's catalog is plenty thick. Why isn't he in a pinball machine?”

    Josh Roop @ ~51:00 — Shows willingness to explore non-traditional pinball themes and artist licensing opportunities

  • “The dad rock crowd. Basically my generation... If it's something like transcendent, like Iron Maiden, you're not going to sell the numbers Iron Maiden did without an amazing playfield. Like the theme is not going to sell that.”

Entities

Zach MenypersonJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonLoser Kid Pinball PodcastproductFlip N Out PinballcompanyJohn BorgpersonKeith Elwinperson

Signals

  • ?

    content_signal: Loser Kid Pinball Podcast celebrates reaching 100,000 listens, a significant milestone for the independent podcast

    high · Josh and Scott explicitly celebrate '100,000 listens' and 'over 100,000 listens' during opening; Zach Meny acknowledges it and provides gifts to celebrate

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Zach Meny stepping back from Pinball Industry Awards (Crystals) organizing and hosting duties for 2025, citing burnout and community reception challenges

    high · Zach states 'I can say here on your show, I haven't talked about it yet, I'm not going to be a part of the crystals this coming year' and elaborates on reasons: creative control conflicts, collateral damage to collaborators, and preconceived notions about his involvement

  • ?

    industry_signal: Tensions within pinball award show ecosystem regarding conflicts of interest, content creator bias, and community reception of new award initiatives

    high · Zach discusses dichotomous reception of things he helps create, mentions collateral damage to people he cares about, and notes that even with best intentions, his involvement can be negatively perceived

  • $

    market_signal: Pattern of December/January Stern releases underperforming compared to other months, potentially tied to supply issues, market saturation, or licensing constraints

    medium · Josh initiates discussion of 'Winter Curse' affecting Stern titles; cites Stranger Things, Led Zeppelin, Beatles, and Munsters as winter releases with varying success; Zach provides counterpoint that current supply constraints may mask the effect this year

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.253

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. This is episode 74 with me, my co-captain as always. Scott Larsen. And Scott, you know what? We always talk about our sponsor, but I thought, why don't we actually have him on? And he can talk about himself. Yeah, he can talk about buying machines from him. So, yeah. Well, OK, OK, I do have a quick update, though. I did update I did unbox Iron Maiden and Beatles that I got from Zach and Nicole at Flip N Out Pinball. And oh, my gosh, that game is awesome. Like, I probably one of the three people on the planet that like Iron Maiden, the music. And so it totally works for me. But yeah. Wow. If you want to get one of these, make sure you get on the list because they are back ordered. So now bring it on in. Bye, bye, bye. Zach. I thought I heard somebody say bye, bye, bye. Congratulations, Scott, for opening up those two beauties. And Josh, my man, it's good to see you. It's good to see you too. You don't have your camera on. You must not be wearing pants or something for us tonight. I gotta tell you guys, I am tired. I woke up at 5 a.m. to go record with the Greg Bone, the one and only. Nice. And then I had a couple deliveries. I got two machines up and downstairs today. So I'm not looking my freshest, I will say that. Okay, well, I'm going to one up you a little bit. I did two hearts and then we did emergency heart. And so I've been up for 24 hours and then I had honeydews today. So I may be a little punchy today. I did two hearts. I save people's lives. Okay, I did three hearts really technically. Three hearts, an emergency one too. Isn't every heart an emergency? Let's be fair. Sorry, Bill. It'll last for a couple of weeks. It's all good. No, it actually like it's they're very interesting cases and in for the first two that's just a normal day. But then someone came in and their aorta was dissecting, which is when it starts exploding. And so it needs to be fixed very quickly. Otherwise they will pass on. So, wow, that was a lot of fun stuff from the rest of the pinball community. God bless you and thank you, Scott, for all that all that you do in the health care industry. Now, okay, actually, to be blunt, it's a privilege. I do love my job. I mean, there are things that are super stressful about it, especially in December, but I do love it. So, but okay, that was a downer. Go ahead. Go ahead, Zach. Let's buy some pinballs. Sell, sell, sell. Zach Menyce, Pinball Business Manager, I mean, we could buy pinball machines or you guys, I was thinking of myself since you oftentimes have on Keith Elwin and he is the goat of pinball playing. He's the, he's the goat of pinball design at this point. But he has yet to surpass myself as being the goat of cameo and guest appearances here on the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. So in a fashion of I don't need to sell you guys things, I would like to give away stuff as a celebration. What do you guys think about that? Can we give away some stuff today? Yes. Plot twist. Plot twist. And especially because I know you two know this, but audience, this is our, we are now over 100,000 listens. All right, so we're like, you know what? It was Zach Meny and Martin Robbins that said, hey, you guys should keep doing this. It sounds good. So I figured it'd only be appropriate to have one of them on. And Martin said no. So we went with Zach. Yeah, well, Martin killed me. He threw me over the boat. So it's okay. I'm he's shark food to me. So that is true. So in what's the word I'm looking for? Celebration? Honor? Not celebration or honor. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, let's celebrate 100k baby. Yeah, 100k by Christmas, right? Mm hmm. Yeah, let's give away some stuff. I'm excited for this. Let's what you got for us, Zach. So I thought, well, we could give away one thing or because you both are two beautiful people. Why not give away two things today on the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast? Your camera, your your video monitor must be obviously turned off. It's like a fresh shave there, Scott. Looks good. I did. I did shave. Yeah. Well, for being up 24 hours and saving people's lives, it looks great. I thought we could give away everybody's gloating and loving on their Godzillas and not everybody has Godzillas. You're giving away a Godzilla on our show? Wow. On our show right now. I'm not the pin side secret Santa.

medium confidence · Zach notes: 'by the time they probably relinquished the agreement and license, people started wanting it again. It's that whole Pirates of the Caribbean effect'

  • Twippies awards ceremony will be held live at The Pinball Fandom (TPF) event this year

    medium confidence · Scott asks 'So the Twippies are going on live at TPF this year, are they not?' and Zach confirms 'I believe they are, yeah'

  • Zach predicts a Rush machine by John Borg will outsell Led Zeppelin in the current market

    medium confidence · Zach predicts: 'if it is Rush by John Borg at the current temperature of our industry and market, we will see sales greater than Led Zeppelin'

    • Zach Meny @ ~37:30 — Clarifies that playfield design matters more than IP/theme appeal for major sales success

  • “I can say here on your show, I haven't talked about it yet, I'm not going to be a part of the crystals this coming year.”

    Zach Meny @ ~10:15 — Breaking news about Zach's departure from organizing/hosting the Pinball Industry Awards

  • “I got thinking about this the other day, you know, Beatles is a fun game, but I want to, I would say that the cells weren't there... they only made 1,966 of them and they thought they were all produced yet they just ran another order.”

    Zach Meny @ ~30:00 — Provides specific sales intelligence on Beatles machine underperformance and secondary production run

  • “if it is Rush by John Borg at the current temperature of our industry and market, we will see sales greater than Led Zeppelin.”

    Zach Meny @ ~63:00 — Direct prediction about upcoming rumored Rush game's market performance

    • Martin Robbinsperson
    The Pinball Network (TPN)company
    Twippiesevent
    Pinball Industry Awards (Crystals)event
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Iron Maidengame
    Led Zeppelingame
    Beatlesgame
    Godzillagame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Munstersgame
    Rush (rumored)game
    Deadpoolgame
    Cornerstoneproduct
    Greg Boneperson
    Steve Goveaperson
    Eddie Pelletierperson

    machine_intel: John Borg likely next in designer rotation for Stern winter 2024/2025 release based on recent designer schedules

    medium · Josh and Zach deduce: 'So really, what does that leave out of the rest of the designers that leaves Borg? Yeah, and Borg's last one was Turtles. So yeah. I think you might be right.'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Rush pinball artwork allegedly shown accidentally in Godzilla prototype display, potentially confirming upcoming Stern title

    medium · Josh references 'the rumored Rush, which was accidentally shown the artwork in the Godzilla prototype' and Josh notes 'The supposed, the alleged artwork.' Discussion includes possibility it's an 'epic troll' by Stern

  • ?

    product_strategy: Beatles pinball received secondary production run after initial 1,966-unit run, suggesting initial demand assessment was conservative or market feedback drove increase

    high · Zach explains: 'they only made 1,966 of them and they thought they were all produced yet they just ran another order' and speculates either Stern underestimated or later demand drove decision

  • ?

    product_concern: Led Zeppelin machine suffered from perceived standard/uninspired playfield layout despite strong musical license, affecting secondary market demand

    high · Zach states: 'people vastly prefer the layout of Iron Maiden, which is why it's harder to get an Iron Maiden than it is to get a Led Zeppelin on the secondary market.' Josh notes 'No one bought Led Zeppelin because they're in love with the play field and it's standard, so.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Stranger Things license expiration led to renewed interest in the machine (Pirates of the Caribbean effect), demonstrating licensing scarcity can drive secondary market demand

    medium · Zach notes: 'by the time they probably relinquished the agreement and license, people started wanting it again. It's that whole Pirates of the Caribbean effect.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Games initially perceived negatively (Stranger Things, Beatles) later appreciated as community perception shifts or license status changes

    medium · Josh: 'Nobody listened to me about how great that pin was, whatever. Uh, you'll learn soon enough. And then Monsters. People are eating crow now, right? They're eating crow.' Referring to Stranger Things becoming more appreciated after initial poor reception

  • ?

    event_signal: Twippies awards ceremony will be held live at The Pinball Fandom (TPF) event in 2025; potential format changes coming to Crystals awards

    medium · Scott asks 'So the Twippies are going on live at TPF this year?' and Zach confirms; hosts potentially changing; Josh notes 'There may be some format changes for the Crystals, so stay tuned'

  • $

    market_signal: Current pinball market demand so strong that supply constraints override historical seasonal trends; any title by Stern would backordered regardless of release timing

    high · Zach states: 'The curse is over... Stern could definitely produce Laundry Day right now and it would be backordered. Just because, you know, right now... And you strap a sticker on it and make it pinball, then absolutely right now.'

    • 4:39
    Okay, was that real by the way? If that was real- That was totally real. We can get into that. Oh my gosh. That was unbelievable and totally real and generous and beautiful. Okay, I thought that was a joke, but okay, go ahead. Absolutely. So, I cannot give away pinball machines. I have four kids to feed. But I thought, why not? Everybody loves Mandalorian. Why not give away not only a awesome Mandalorian commemorative Stern banner, which are, I mean, come on, those things are hard to get. They're awesome. Unless you know the right people, contact me. Or, or and, not or, and here on Loser Kid, why don't we give away a Mandalorian translight Studio Modern & Couples hitting ball and
    5:25
    football waves Though most than football and providing with furniture for anyone who have let Pinball Podcasts at gmail.com. Then maybe in a week or so you will randomly draw two winners to win a banner of Mandalorian as well as a Translight. It doesn't get much easier than that. You know what? I'm going to do the 80s slow clap right now because that is impressive, my friend. See? Why don't we do it? Oh, Captain, my Captain. I love it. So yeah, so free stuff here on Loser Kid because I don't know. You guys are one of my favorite podcasts. Please don't quit. I don't have a life outside of this other than my day job. So this is my fun job. So this is my fun job and my day job. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, but I still don't know how you do it, Zach. We were there at Expo. We came and shook your hand and you're like, I got to go take calls now. It was just like, I got to go. Yeah, it's nuts. It's always nuts. It's crazy. But it's fun. Crazy. So I love it. That is really, really nice, by the way. And Zach is actually putting his own material up for this. And so we really appreciate that. So absolutely. Let's keep Zach in the number one position. Let's see if we can outpace his previous record and see if we can share more and more. And you know, if we keep getting those numbers big, listeners, you know, I'll reach out to Mr. Elwin and I'll at least give him some advice or some tips on next time he appears on the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, how he can up his numbers maybe. You got to admit, you were kind of scared a little bit there when Godzilla came out because that episode was blowing up a quick. It was monster and I was, I was very scared. Load up, load up. Came in within what, 200 I think is what? Yeah, it was really close. Oh, who's counting? Now it's a landslide. Yeah.
    7:34
    Love you Keith. Well, we really appreciate you coming on Zach. We know that you're a very busy man and so you don't do these very often. You never guest on other shows, right? Not often, no, never. And so we appreciate you coming on and let's get into some news. I know there's been a ton of it, right? Yeah. We're going to start off, well we just talked about the 100,000, that's the first thing on our notes. Let's scroll down next to this. We've got Twippies, pre-votings going on. Honestly, by the time you hear this, it's probably going to be over with. Yeah. So go ahead and hop in your time machine. Hint, hint, segment, hint. Um, go and, uh, go ahead and put your name in, you know, uh, vote for, uh, you know, vote for Zach and Dennis, uh, vote for, uh, you know, vote for whoever you want, vote for Josh and me, just for Loser Kids. I want to see if we get slap saved again this year. We should get silver ball in there too, slam tilt. I think triple drain takes it. They're coming on strong, fellas. They are coming on strong. Yes, they are. So anyway, go ahead and put some support out there. I think you can go to thisweekinpinball.com. Yeah, something like that. There you go. That's the Twippy plug for the year. And we won't know the results until January 1st. That brings me to another question though. Maybe you can't share secrets with us yet, Zach. Sure I can. What do you want to know? Are you thinking pinball industry awards again? The people want to know. That's deep and dark. Yeah, I'll give you a little behind the scenes action if you guys want it. The pinball industry awards are going on. I don't want to give away too much information. We're going to see the crystals again this year. They usually do them end of January? Yes. I believe so. I can say here on your show, I haven't talked about it yet, I'm not going to be a part of the crystals this coming year. Okay. Yes. So that's fresh news. Yeah. I am taking a step back from the crystals and I will not be a part of it for better orders. Even in hosting? You and Greg doing the hosting thing again? Tim Kitzrow, At this point, absolutely nothing. Okay. Absolutely nothing. And it's a bit bittersweet for me. Just I love to create and be a part of some say control. I have a vision. I have a strong vision on how things could be and to the best of my ability, I put everything into what I do. And if A, I don't feel like I can do that, or B, it is counter to what the rest of my team feels, then something's got to give. And I felt like it might be best for me maybe just to take a year off from any awards. I don't blame you. Sometimes you get overextended. I know that I felt that in life and at work and even at home. And so I've tried to narrow things down to the things that I need to focus on most. You even had to operate on someone at work that was overextended? Yeah, exactly. That's right. It's just, I mean, you guys both work extremely hard, so it's hard to put this to any level that you guys are doing stuff, but it's a ton of work. Financially, it's a lot of resources there. And not to, I mean, it's late, so I can be real. I don't have to be too wacky. I've learned over the last three, four, five years in media, guys, that for some reason, whenever I help create something or something new to this industry, it can be a bit dichotomous on the reception. And I've realized that even if I'm part of a team and trying to help and I have the best and purest intentions, it doesn't always get received that way. So I feel like sometimes I'm the weakest link by trying to be the strongest link. So it just, it sucks. Uh, but man, sometimes if I put my name on something, people have these preconceived ideas and notions about them. And I'm tired of collateral damage happening to the people I care about in this industry because of it. So, and that's not nothing specific. It's just, it seems like every darn time, you know, I try something, it's like, oh, well. So, I'm like, yeah, let's just take a year off, sit in the stands and root on everybody that's producing, editing and directing and hosting these things. Yeah, no, hey, best of luck to everybody. And it certainly is. It's nice to take a mental step back every once in a while. And so, good for you. It's hard to recognize that and actually take that step in your personal life because everybody who is driven is trying to create things. And sometimes it is hard. It's hard to just to say, you know, I'm going to take a time out for a bit. Yeah, I'll be there in the stands rooting on the crystals because it's my baby. I'll be rooting on the twippies because I feel like it's still my baby. Regardless of what I've been through in the past with these groups, I think the world of what they're doing and pushing pinball forward in a positive manner. And I want nothing more than to see everyone succeed in them. So I'll be in the front row. Yeah, cool. So the real question is, are you going to allow TPN or I guess you don't know, but are you going to let TPN maybe win the awards? Because let's be honest, like, I know these guys will never take credit for this, but the best hands down episode ever in pinball history, in my opinion, is the final round reach around awards episode. That show was insane. It was impressive. Anytime you can have Roger Sharp on there talking about the special award, it's it's cringeworthy and awesome at the same time. When you can get the main singer of Bare Naked Ladies to write custom songs for your award show, come on. You know, you got Mark Silk on there that was doing the announcing. That whole script of that show was amazing. And I think I think they deserve some kind of recognition just for that. And I know that they'll probably do reach around again this year. I don't know how they're going to top it, but seriously, they deserve an award of some sort, in my opinion. Without a doubt. And just just the individuals of, you know, Jeff Tillis and Martin Robbins alone. And how much they've brought to this industry, much less media. Yes, specific recognition would be nice from some entity in the future. It's hard to top that. I will say it's it is tough though creating these awards because I mean let's rewind and go to the way back here fellas four years ago the only resemblance of an awards we had was in written form or maybe it was in a an older school banquet type of form in an expo where you get a plaque at a buffet like the media is changing in pinball and not to jump on it too much because a lot of people are bored with media talk but Tim Kitzrow, Laser Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, Mirco Playfields.
    15:27
    And you can find us on Doctor Who or our Facebook page ataniu.com, where links to Car지는 & Co., a close friend of Servie,arias, Jim & Whitby & Danielle Paulson & joyell rewards and ger's today, thank you very much for tuning in to The Sid E consumed podcast about the APPLAUSE One During 2020. We're know Causes this is quite a With your listeners here, I was almost appalled to the degree that some of the work that was coming out of the pinball network at that time, we were holding them back just because we didn't want to appear biased.
    16:15
    I won't curse on this program, but that's a bunch of crap. And I get it. And I was the only one arguing against it. And they were being humble. But facts are facts. And if something is good, it should be recognized. Period. Yeah, I agree. I do understand the apparent conflict of interest and recusing yourself, but that is challenging. It's challenging because you're trying to do something positive, but when you're also a content creator and you're nervous about putting yourself in the mix, then that's... it's mixed blessing, I guess. So certainly appreciate what you guys did last year and and I appreciate that we got the award last year but but it really does it to make sure that everybody gets the recognition they need it's you're walking a tightrope there and that's that's always going to get some criticism. And you know what I was pushing for the puppet pals that's what I was pushing like I was like what how are we not gonna recognize the puppet pals this is this is artistry and genius to a level that this industry has never seen. Marc Benioff, Sound jobs,
    17:33
    Marley Biron, Leo physiology, Billy Whether, J.D. Our cliche before the requests for pre Bestest Tees Tim Kitzrow, Laser Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, Mirco Playfields. And it would make for great content, I think. Is step one get past the guard who's paid by the SEC to make sure he doesn't rip off more little old ladies? Yeah, they're going to be going to the impound for that relic. Yeah. I heard you made him Mr. Popularity in jail, Scott, because you gave him that medical grade lubricant. Oh, wow. All the people love him. Hey, this is a PG podcast, my friend. I don't know what PG means out in Vernal, but man, you're taking a blue very quickly. Hey, you guys are, you're implying, so I'm just saying that you sent him some, a gift basket. I'm just saying that, yeah. Right, okay, yeah. Yeah. See what I do to these shows? Yeah, you take it down, take it down a notch, yeah. Immediately becomes R-rated. So the Twippies are going on live at TPF this year, are they not? Yes. I believe they are, yeah. That's what I was told. Who the hosts are though? You never know. I don't actually. You know Patterson, hey. Scott and I are going to be there, you know. We still have our outfits that we bought for two years ago.
    19:32
    Please tell me we're going to dress up as the dumb and dumber characters. Like a light blue suit. Yes, actually, I had those at Expo. I brought them and Josh is the buzzkill. Josh did not want to dress those up for the pinball Olympics. I didn't feel appropriate at that time. I didn't know what we were watching. Appropriate for Halloween. What's wrong with you? Well, that's terrific. I think hosting wise we'll hopefully hear from the Twippies here soon. There may be some format changes for the Crystals, so stay tuned for that. Okay. If I were to guess Twippies wise, I would think Emoto's going to host it again, probably Jack Danger, I would guess, but I don't know. Okay. Let's move on to our next note. You know, we talked about this back in April. We talked about A Winter Curse with Stern. It seems like, yeah, and it seems like whatever title ends up in that December, January, February month usually doesn't do as great as the other months. I mean, case in point, the last couple of years where we had Stranger Things, which has come into its own after afterwards. It had a boomerang effect, absolutely. Yes, but when it did not, it was flat footed as soon as it showed. And we had we had Led Zeppelin this past year. And so you can you can trace it back. But I want to know do you think Borg is going to break the winter curse or is even going to be such a thing because pinball so exploding right now that it doesn matter what comes out from Stern it going to sell Go ahead Zach You go first I would first, first off, this is the Loser Kid Winter Curse. Let's just, okay. Straight here. Sure. We had Led Zeppelin last year and the previous year, Stranger Things. Nobody listened to me about how great that pin was, whatever. Uh, you'll learn soon enough. And then Monsters. People are eating crow now, right? They're eating crow. That's right. And they're paying $13,000 for a premium. Mm-hmm. Munsters the year before, the Beatles, who's measuring, right? So the winter curse, I think that maybe you're onto something. The etiology of this, I don't know, but there seems to be a correlation here. Now, what are we measuring in the winter curse? Are we measuring the feedback that hobbyists are giving about the way this game is or are we measuring sales? I would actually do a mix of those, but I would say how readily available is it for purchase? Because for a while... The curse is over. Yeah, okay, sure. Okay, so let's take the COVID out of it. But for a while, with all of those others, there really wasn't much of a wait. If you wanted one, you could get one readily. But this may be a little bit of an outlier because Stern could definitely produce Laundry Day right now and it would be backordered. Just because, you know, right now, yeah, Keith Elwin, exactly. And you strap a, slap a sticker on it and make it pinball, then absolutely right now. So this year may be an anomaly just because of supply issues. Sure. And I agree with Scott. I think a combination of numbers and of reception. And case in point, I got thinking about this the other day, you know, Beatles is a fun game, but I want to, I would say that the cells weren't there. And the reason being is because they only made 1,966 of them and they thought they were all produced yet they just ran another order. So either they weren't all produced and they were just going to leave it at what it was and then they saw some kind of reception down the road and was like, we're just going to throw this out there. But I mean look at Godzilla, they bumped up the limited edition numbers to a thousand and those were gone like hotcakes in the first what? Let's be generous, 24 hours? Yeah, that's pretty generous. It probably wasn't even that. Yeah, and Josh, what you're saying is, I think it's fair to say that the Beatles was not a strong seller throughout the production of that. Maybe that's the response they were expecting with, you know, the features and the price of that game. But I think it's fair to say as a dealer, the Beatles was not a super seller like Jurassic Park was. So you're right. Same with the, I mean, Munsters was actually a good seller. Yeah, believe it or not, Munsters, Munsters did well, but people still ask for Munsters. It's that nostalgia. Stranger Things did not do as well. It really didn't. But by the time they probably relinquished the agreement and license, people started wanting it again. It's that whole Pirates of the Caribbean effect. And then Led Zeppelin has been a mixed mixed bag. John, what's your favorite game? John Popadiuk, Lead Zeppelin, Yeah, it's uh, I own Lead Zeppelin and it's mixed for me too. I enjoy the game. It's fun. Um, you know, I blare the soundtrack and I have a good time with it, but I do understand why people say it's not their favorite game because of this or that. Um, but man, it's a fun game to rock out to, so. So we're assuming that this winter there's going to be a release by John Borg, is that correct? If you look at the schedule, you know, Elwin just did his right before that was Eddie, Jack Danger, who was only contracted for one game that we know of. Oh, he's doing a cornerstone. Come on. You think? I think so. Maybe. But he, so he just produced a game. So really, what does that leave out of the rest of the designers that leaves Borg? Yeah, and Borg's last one was Turtles. So yeah. I think you might be right. It feels feels Borg-y. So we do Borg and the hypothetical or the rumored, my air quotes, rush, which was accidentally shown the artwork in the Godzilla prototype. The supposed, the alleged artwork. Yeah, yeah, right. Unless, unless that's an epic troll, which would be awesome, by the way. Which would be something Stern would do. Yeah. That's true. They get their kicks off of little things like that. I can tell you that much. Yeah, they do. But okay, so let's say hypothetically if it is a rumored rush with Borg,
    26:04
    what type of reception do you think we'll get from that license alone? Just license alone. Okay, the dad rock crowd. Basically my generation... I'm probably on the young side for a Rush fan, even though I have followed Rush my entire life Tim Kitzrow, Laser Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, Mirco Playfields. If it's something like transcendent, like Iron Maiden, you're not going to sell the numbers Iron Maiden did without an amazing playfield. Like the theme is not going to sell that. Absolutely. So if you have a similar thing with Rush, I think you can find that magic to be able to sell it. To have a theme that people really connect to and a play out that is aside from the theme. That's what made Iron Maiden so distinct. Would you rather play a game that has music by Iron Maiden or music by Led Zeppelin? Led Zeppelin. Of course. And that connects more, but people vastly prefer the layout of Iron Maiden, which is why it's harder to get an Iron Maiden than it is to get a Led Zeppelin on the secondary market. We know that John Borg has done music pins in the past. I mean, he gave us Aerosmith. How do you guys feel about that? He gave us Metallica. Kiss. Did he give us Kiss? Didn't he? Didn't he do Kiss? I think you're right. Yeah, he gave us Kiss. Yeah, because Aerosmith was kind of like Kiss 2.0. Mm-hmm. He's done music pins. I like Borg. He can be a little hit or miss when it comes to the magic that attracts me though. I like Turtles. I like the theme. I thought the rules and the, you know, the You know, the voices were great. I mean, Mark did an awesome job on that and everything. It, but it wasn't a long laster for me, which kind of surprised me.
    28:28
    So I, I have a Tron right now and it's, it's a very fun game. And it's has that Borg magic, but it's, it's a different, Borg has a different style than the other people. He tends to have like that fast style, which is why it works really well for Metallica. wingspotting.com
    29:00
    what's your thought on that i really think that there are a handful of of people out there that are really excited for this title um and borg does have We have, he is unique, but I feel like you get kind of a general idea of what he's going to release. I really think it just comes down to Playfield, whether this is going to be received really well and who's on code. Dwight was with Eddie, so I don't think Dwight's going to be with him with Borg on Rush. So I would assume we're going to see like Tim Sexton, maybe Raymond Davidson. Lonnie Robb. I think it's whatever they come up with. What about Tanyo? What about having Tanyo? He hasn't been one since Deadpool. I think Tanyo's still working on the connectivity. I think that's what he is. That would be my guess. We do know that, I think, who am I shouting out? Just another pinball podcast, head on George and Tanyo. George and Tanyo did say that Tanyo's working on a cornerstone title in the future. And that's it for this episode of the Insider Connected Podcast. Tim Sexton So my question is though, what isn't dad rock at this point? Cause technically I'm a dad now. I mean, I've been a dad for 11 years now. And you rock. And the music, thank you. And the music I grew up with is from the two thousands. I mean, it's obviously not the stuff you guys listen to, but I'm never going to, you guys, you guys. Okay. What do you mean? You people? Yeah. Wow. You, you people. Yeah. You old.
    31:28
    But like, I would be willing to compromise with the nineties. Like triple drain was talking about red, hot chili peppers. I feel like that's a oops that's a good no you're fine I I think if you qualify for a 401k then you can officially say anything you listen to is dad rock so so we do a paramour pinball machine that's from the 2000s I have no idea who that is exactly that's his point does it count as dad rock though he has I'm a dad no in aquabass doesn't count either they have to be a good band What about Justin Timberlake? I'm asking for a friend, but Justin Timberlake. Right. You want to bring Sexy back? I wouldn't mind it. Would you do a crossover with NSYNC or would it just be strictly be JT? Man, Justin's catalog is plenty thick. Why isn't he in a pinball machine? Between all the movies and stuff he's done, he should be in a pinball machine. You know what? Call me crazy. I would buy a Justin Timberlake pinball machine. Okay, okay, it was like we love guru wait what it oh my god
    32:36
    Even better such a bad show. Okay, wait, what is that? What is that that South Korean boy band that is huge right now? Is it kpop? Is that what it is? Yes something like that Yeah, you're more hip with the times than I am Because there was someone at work who was they were coming into and she bought tickets for four nights like all four nights she bought tickets like yeah and i was like wait who who are they like this is the first time i'd heard about them but they are they make so much money that they are rated on the gdp of south korea And so I don't know. So I think there's a, well, I don't know. There's certainly a popularity for that. Does it cross over to pinball? No, it doesn't. Don't make it people. Wow. Okay, here's a band that I grew up with. Backstreet Boys? No. You would consider, I would consider them dad rock. Linkin Park. They came out in 1998 or 9 and was very active during the 2000s. Would you consider that a dad rock? Pinball machine? And they've definitely had the accolades to get a pinball machine in my opinion. Yeah, I was gonna say that you're not gonna get the, um, like, the music that is very polarizing, but hey, they made Iron Maiden, so I think if they made Iron Maiden, any music is possible. Because I'm not talking about a Fog and Molly pinball machine here. I have no idea what that is. I think that Lincoln Park is a bit too screamy to be dead rock. Okay, that's kind of what I was getting at with the... A little screamy. I was going to say the scream or the rage, but that was... then I thought, well, you have Iron Maiden, which has... Give me Justin Timberlake over Lincoln Park. Sorry, fellas. Okay. Okay, actually, pink. I would buy a pink pinball machine. I would not. I'm sorry. Not my cup of tea. I'm not... I could... I'm not, it's not bad, but, but I guess my final question is, where do you draw the line? Like, does Nirvana, because Nirvana changed the tides of what rock was back in the 90s. That's not dead rock. Yeah, it's not dead rock. I would say pre, I would say pre-Nirvana. Basically when, when Nirvana came out, yeah, when Nirvana came out, every single hairband knew that that was the end. It was a seismic shift when Nevermind was released. And just overnight, every single hair band started wearing flannel and toning down their music. That was a movement. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It really, because it became so formulaic. And so Guns N' Roses is probably the last big super band that would qualify as dad rock in my book. Is Jimi Hendrix dad rock? That's grandpa rock.
    35:44
    No, I'm serious. I would say Led Zeppelin's probably a little long in the tooth for dad rock. Rush kind of slides in because they had a 40-year career.
    35:57
    Well, same with ACDC. I mean, they started in the 70s along with Led Zeppelin. Yeah, but ACDC is... Yeah. Yeah, but I would say if ACDC dialed in their sound in 1978 or even 1980 with Back in Black, I don't know, Rush kept changing with that, but now I'm getting super Rush nerdy on you. But I still put Rush is definitely solid in the dad rock era. Where's the guy that you guys had on that was a huge Rush fan? Steve Govea. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, believe it or not... I always call him Guava Juice. Yeah, I text him every once in a while because I'm trying to get like an in on his next mod. So... I see. I probably shouldn't call him Guava Juice then. Yeah, I'm sure he'd appreciate it though. And I probably should have got him an L.E. when he... it's just the list was already so long.
    36:53
    Rather be clear with people. Yeah. So let me let me recap this so we're thinking rush it just really did comes down to code and play field we think that rush itself will move some units but it really because it could pull like a Led Zeppelin effect like Led Zeppelin had its numbers because of what Led Zeppelin is but because after the play field was announced and everything like that it kind of took a hinder or back back seat to what could have been yeah no no one bought Led Zeppelin because they're in love with the play field and it's It's standard, so. I'm predicting that if it is rushed by John Borg at the current temperature of our industry and market, we will see sales greater than Led Zeppelin. Not to be mean, but I think that's easy to do. Greater than Led Zeppelin, but less than Iron Maiden. First year? Mmm, yes. Okay. But that's tough because that was a burn that lasted. When we think of Iron Maiden now, fellas, we think of how many games sold and how impactful it is now for three years or so. The first year probably wasn't as big as we may have thought. Yeah, that's fair. Because that was Keith Elwin's first game, you know, or is he still just a competitive player? Is this a PR move kind of thing? Man, Stern took a gamble and it paid off big. It paid off tenfold. Holy crap. If you would have told me after Iron Maiden came out, like I was still skeptical. Like I'm not saying that Keith was a bad designer or anything like that. I'm just, I'm like, I don't, I wasn't a huge Iron Maiden fan. Like I enjoy the music, but I'm like, what's, what's going to become of this? Because Elwin had so much time to work on Maiden as in the form of Archer. And so it was like when he made Jurassic Park, that's when I was like, this is the real deal. Yeah, it was like the Scott Danesi thing. He's been working on it forever. And maybe this is just a one off kind of thing. Well, bands usually have that. The first first album is huge and they call it the sophomore slump for a reason, because, you know, you have five years to develop material for one album and And then you have to come up with a new album in the next year. A lot of times they just don't have as much in the tank. And then Jurassic Park came out. Yeah, that was where he planted the flag and said, I'm here. Come at me. Jurassic Park is still an outrageously high selling pinball machine. Oh yeah. Since it's, since its inception guys, the thing is you can't keep those in stock.
    39:31
    I was lucky that you had one in stock when I bought one. I called you up one day and was like, what'd you got in stock? I got one JP Pro send it my way. Like the box is still warm. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of L1, so let's talk rumors for a second. I'm, I'm hearing that his next game is Back to the Future. It's a Kapow title. And that we're doing well the Kapow title tier, you know, we start off with a premium and so on and so forth. Some people are claiming it's only Super LE, yada yada. Does this really matter? Does it like I know people are complaining like, well, We're still getting a good game, but at this point I'm like premium or nothing. Premium LE or nothing. And so I'm not really heartbroken if it is a Kapow title and it starts off at the premium because I felt like that's where I start with L1 anyway. Yeah, but keep in mind generally the premium price tag on a Kapow is going to be substantially higher. Distantial. It's gonna be higher than that of a Stern cornerstone typically. Yeah. So, right now premiums, let's see, just a buck shy of $9,000. So, would you expect capo title to be 95, 96, 10,000? 95 99 at the least, I would guess. Yeah, I would say... I might go with the full thousand. I would say 800 or 900. It may even be 9999. Sure, 98 9999, I can see it. We are dealing with a almost a different, you know, a different model there. I guess you're right. And I guess looking back at the history, Elvira was not a kapow. But what was I mean, Batman 66 is and it obviously has commanded a higher price. It fluctuated with Elvira when they did do price increases.
    41:25
    Beatles is kind of its own beast. I don't know if you can really can you count Beatles into the whole kapow? I almost felt like they were searching there on pricing. That's true. It was a different dog. But when it did come out, we know that there were three models in the same fashion and we know the lowest quote unquote model was mimicking that of a limited edition with powder coat and everything and it had a substantially higher price than that of a regular premium. So yeah, I think it still lines up with, I think it still lines up with everything else. And they probably what they do is a Kapow title is also known as a studio title And that what they did with Elvira as well They called it a studio title And those prices those prices were even that of Batman 66 and Elvira all the way up to kind of this year. So I think they would probably map those pricing similarly in the future. I don't know. Elwin's a golden goose right now. People weren't happy with the increase, but then they saw Godzilla and was like, well, it makes sense. You know if they would have done that with Led Zeppelin they're like what crap are you guys trying to pull over our eyes? Yeah, my opinion is I certainly Elwin is there he is their golden boy right now so it makes sense if you can if you are finding a way of giving value to the premium market then you are going to try to tap your greatest resource or your greatest I guess perceived resource. I'm not trying to be disparaging about any other playfield designers there. But if you, it was the same type of thing with Lyman, is that they moved Lyman to Batman 66 to sell Batman 66 for a reason. Because he has a track record of having excellent, well-respected code. And if you put Elwin on a premium type game, premium only game, then he has that respect for he is four for four for solid games. So why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you explore that option? I know that you guys are in the know a lot here on Loser Kid and... Yeah, I get a lot of people telling us that. Myself hearing that you guys are thinking about a rumor of Elwin and Kapow makes me happy because And money sucks, of course, but because Kapow brings in the big licenses and theme matters to me more than it probably should. And I don't care. I will proudly wear that. So if we got a big license and a Keith Elwin, oh boy, watch out, step back, watch me throw my money. So you're telling me you're day one on this is spinal tap with home pin, huh? Oh, what a horrible, horrible thing. Sorry, Jeff Tebow. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's actually a great theme, but I, sorry, I wouldn't buy a Rush pinball machine by Home Pin. I guess I'll put it that way, and I'm a huge Rush fan, so. There you go. I don't know, if we're talking dad rock, talk about dad movie. This is Spinal Tap. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. What do you think he's on then? If Elwin's over there, if Elwin's doing a Kapow, do we get Harry Potter? Do we get, what do we get? Oh, you know. Back to the future, what do we get? Maybe Back to the Future is code for Back to the Magic. Back to Hogwarts? Can we really... Hermione, grab your wand! If they did an Elwynn Harry Potter, would they need to peruse anything else for the rest of the year? Yes, they need Mark Silk as the voices for all of the characters. That's what they need. There'd just be one ramp and two gobble holes and that's it. That's pretty much it, yeah. Everybody would be like, here, here, take it. Sweet. All right, can you imagine the modding community for that one? You know how many people would be ticked? Because right now, let's admit, Godzilla is game of the year. I'm not hearing it from anything else at this point. There's no way anything else comes close. Yeah. And I'm in on a second run Godzilla, which is March if I remember correctly. Correct. And then the third run is August. How insane would it be? They announced Harry Potter, it's Elwin, it's Kapow. All of a sudden, price doesn't matter at that point. I'm not saying it, price still does matter, but a lot of these people, price would not matter to, and they would need to have it. I bet you third one and fourth one would already be booking out the same week they showed it. And that's just me. As soon as Harry Potter is announced, absolutely. Do we think it's Harry Potter? Kapow could do it. He could make it happen. Well, Craig Bobby cited the super awesome pinball show for their great interview with Joe Kaminkow. Okay. Wink wink. Yeah. Sorry, I have to give you crap, Craig. But, uh, so when, when Kaminkow was on our show, he talked about he owns rights to the Back to the Future Broadway play. Yeah. And so they were making some connections there. But you know, you know, Joe, he likes to tease, he likes to troll. Who knows? Oh, don't get my hopes up. Tim Lee, avid listener to the show. If you haven't checked out the poor man's tribe multiball with him and Rachel, go out and do it. Tim tells me on a weekly basis how much he loves Back to the Future and that's like his dream theme. Between that and Transformers 1984. It's like, it's the, it's, besides Harry Potter, what's the next largest theme that everybody screams? That's, that's the whale out there. It's Back to the Future. Yeah. Ferris Bueller's Day Off. At this point, guys, I think Back to the Future has actually surpassed the desire for a Jaws. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I'll agree with you there. There's more stuff. Remember a couple years ago? That was it. There's way more assets that you could incorporate into the Back to the Future. In Jaws, you have this mean fish, this fish that needs psychotherapy. Well, who are we talking to? And they said that they could do Jaws, but they'd only have rights to the shark. It's like, what's the point of doing Jaws then? Yeah, the shark was cheap. We talked to people.
    47:48
    Yeah, exactly. Well, they don't have to deal with with licensing because they're not negotiating with actors. So I still think Jaws Jaws would do great back to the future would do great.
    48:01
    What about Sharknado? We can do that now. But seriously, besides Harry Potter and Back to the Future, what other big titles you got out there? What else is Grail? What else are you hearing Zach? Um, not, not from the studio, but you know, people requesting like, do you ever hear this is coming out? You put me on the list. Well, let's pull up my list now from flipping out the interested list. Excuse me while I whip this out. That's right. What was this about a PG movie or? Hey, that's from blazing saddles. That, that is a dad rock show. If there ever is one, I don't know. Because that's me at $400 handcart. Okay. We've got Toy Story is a big heavy list. Okay, but is that because it's been rumored for so long or is that the fact that people really want a Toy Story? Yeah, for whatever reason. Toy Story is a big long list. Okay, there'd be a lot of people who'd want a Toy Story for their... My wife started asking me, she's like, didn't you say there was a Toy Story coming out? I'm like, that's the rumor. Mm-hmm. Harry Potter is a long list. Yeah. Pulp Fiction has become a long list. Wow. I'm pretty surprised if they ever made that. Back to the Future is a long list. Rush is now a very long list. Yeah, I'm somewhere mid on that list. I called Zach and he's like, yeah, you're pretty far down. I'm like, okay, well just put me on it. We'll see. I have a handful of people on Journey. Journey would be a great pin actually. A lot of people on Lord of the Rings remake and Tron remake. Yep. Pirates of the Caribbean, if they did that again, long list there. There's a long list. We've got James Bond, Beetlejuice, a pretty growing list there. We have Scooby Doo, the one that nobody talks about that I would love. I think Scooby Doo would do well. I think done right, in the right hands, it would do very well. That feels like a spooky title actually. Yeah, it does. He-Man Masters of the Universe. Okay. G.I. Joe. We all flunger in one, right?
    50:07
    Joe, Venom is a growing list now. Legends of Zelda, of course. Yes, please. Mario, of course. Golden Girls, just because people are cute. Predator, Transformers G1, The Matrix is a huge license. Pee-wee's Big Adventure, believe it or not. You know what? That could be interesting. Big Trouble in Little China, Pink Floyd. Ooh, do you fall asleep while you're playing? But I'm in it. Grimless. Sorry, I'm going back to PeeWee and to Big Trouble in Little China. Those both feel like trolls to me. I mean, it's because Jack Danger and Kaneda have been pushing those for so long. Like, you know what you guys need to do? Fan base, you should hit up Zach Manning.
    51:03
    There actually is a, um, there is a desire for, um, Pee-wee's Big Adventure. I mean, it's a, it's a Tim Burton movie and, and, and it's, it is bizarre, but you could certainly make an interesting game. I, I think outside of the hardcore fan base though, that'd be a pretty I don't know. I would take a peewee over 90% of what I've listed so far. Okay. All right. It is Tim Burton. It is a just a wonderful fantasy, awesome film. I'm a big peewee fan. We did name our van Large Marge. Oh, man. All that would be good. Army of Darkness and Evil Dead. Okay. John Wick, Spinal Tap, Indiana Jones, Speed Racer, Twilight Zone Remake. It kind of feels like we're getting into the weeds here. Here's also the challenge. Somebody's on the list for Muse. Okay, put me on that list. I would take Muse. I'm doing that right now. Muse is actually one of the best counselors I've ever been to. It was so good. And listener, all you've got to do it. That's it. That's as easy as it is. Scott Larson's now on the Muse list. Boom. Yeah. For an L.E. Do you want to do a little L.E. action? Yeah, absolutely. Bring it on. You're in. No, seriously. One of the... I went to Muse and I saw Muse back in 2009 and they opened for a little band called U2. And Muse was way better that night than U2 was. And I had no idea who Muse was. Speaking of Muse, I'm going to rewind just I know by the way you two also a good also would be a good thing. Oh, no, we've already talked for us. I just want to bring this up for two seconds. How amazing rush is known for their laser shows, right? How amazing would it be for them to reuse the projector from Stranger Things and put a laser light show in rush?
    52:58
    They should reuse it at some point they need to but Do you think Borg's gonna take that trick from Eddie? and we'll see you next time. Bye! dove do you think we'll get a return of expression lights ok bring me up to speed on that you mean like mood rings you own it it's in led zeppelin oh ok ok so yeah i think those are really cool i love them yes i have the topper on led zeppelin and every people that come over and they see the lights that move they're basically like little search light things no i'm talking about the ones on the side of the art blades oh yes Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. They maybe we get another. Here's the next music pin. Maybe we get it. I think those are actually essential for music pins. I think it really does create a mood that I it was shown with Guns N' Roses and actually, I I like the symmetry on Led Zeppelin those expression lights I thought you were talking about the the topper that has those spotlight things which are pretty fun because they move around 1.27 Gigawatts
    54:24
    1.29 Gigawatts This is God stating something. This is stupid. 100. 101. I think Justin Timberlake's in it and they keep yelling out Great Scott. Oh, was that Alpha Dog? Maybe. Were they kidnapped the kid? No. Oh, I didn't see that. Okay. We'll figure it out later. If you know the show that I'm talking about, please email into Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. It was so many hints we just dropped what the crap it was. Let's move on to, you know, we were talking Venom. Do you think it's time that we do another Spider-Man pinball machine? I know Venom's not necessarily, it is, but isn't Spider-Man. We're not going to develop into really into that, but we've had, we've had five more movies come out and we know that comic book heroes are a big thing with Stern. Do you think we start seeing another Spider-Man anytime soon? Would you do a different layout or would you do a the same layout with a updated theme like a Tom Holland theme?
    55:38
    What would you what would you prefer? Actually, that's the question. I think you give it a new layout. I think you give it a fresh layout like you did with with Avengers. But Avengers was fixing a problematic play field. Spider-Man's play field is actually pretty good. Yeah, but it's been reused in Star Trek and in Zeppelin. And then you see what I'm saying here? I doubt people want Spider-Man 4.0, 5.0. Yeah, they're not going to redo that. The bigger question is if we see a Venom, do we see a comic book version like the rumors suggest or do we see something scripted from a prior intellectual property like the films? I think comic. Yeah, I think the movies are too wildcard at this point. I don't think they've been pooling like an Avengers or anything like that. I think honestly, Sony only makes, I don't want to say they only make these, but they have an agreement with Marvel that they have to make so many Spider-Man movies every so many years. That's why we got so many Spider-Man movies.
    56:42
    Well, they have to make them or lose the license, which is basically what happened with the Fantastic Four, which is why they kept trying to find a, a, a movie that worked for that theme. Exactly. Because yes, they were contractually obligated to. I don't know. I feel like Venom was just one of those things that's like, we need to make a movie anyway, Spider-Man, this counts, let's do it, you know? I think a Venom comic book makes the most sense. I agree. I think it would be a really good seller. And I believe at this point the relationship between Stern Pinball and Marvel is so strong, listener, that it would not surprise me at all if we see the frequency of a Marvel-based pin as often as we do a music-based pin going forward. I still want a Black Panther pin. Well, an insider secret, Marvel loves Zombie Yeti. I don't know if you, I assume this is public knowledge, but no seriously, Marvel, after what he did for Deadpool, they specifically request Zombie Yeti. He does. He did Avengers because of their request, yes, from what I understand. Didn't he talk about that on ours? Because he said he was originally asked to. Yeah, I think he was asked to do it, so. But he was already on Ninja Turtles and he said, well, if you can't find anyone else, you know, hit me up. And I don't blame him. I think they just wanted him. Well, I don't either. He does a great job. He definitely brings the Marvel vibes are strong with Zombie Yeti. He does a fantastic job with comic book art. Hands down. I'm a sucker for superhero ones, so I would totally buy it. And I think it'd be great. I actually do like the comic book version of them. And, and that's probably just because, you know, I, I read comic books when I was a kid. And so on some level it reconnects with me, even though I haven't read them in years. Um, but I still like that vibe. Uh, the challenge that you have when you do a live action one is sometimes it can age poorly. And there were some people who didn't like the Spider-Man.
    58:47
    They didn't like the artwork because they weren't a big fan of that. Some people really preferred the ultimate version of it. I think it looks much better in that comic form. Yeah, that's that's the only downfall with, in my opinion, of the ultimate comic book version of Spider-Man is you don't get the call outs. Yeah, the call outs were great. Yeah. J.K. Simons did fantastic. If you could if you could update and even have him come back because he's in the movies, He's in the new ones. Yeah. I don't know. I think if you got a very harmonious little thing going on there, I think it'd sell gangbusters. And that's the thing is I think we're going to see another Spider-Man. That's when people were talking comic book and then when Venom came up, it didn't shock me because I'm like, it's almost feeling like it's time for another Spider-Man pinball machine. I think this is, if we see a Venom, this is the version of the Spider-Man you're referring to. Yeah. I don't think I see a Spider-Man for a long time if a Venom happens. Yeah, I would agree. Well dang it, now I want a Spider-Man more than I want a Venom, but... I don't know, I think Venom's fun. Venom is a fun anti-hero, and they were able to do a really good job. But this is actually, we didn't really talk too much about this with Dad Rock, but for a lot of those things, they still kind of stayed in the PG realm. And so all those bands back in the 80s and even early 90s, I mean, I would say some bands obviously excluded Motley Crue, Guns N' Roses, but for a lot of them, I mean, you could play those. I guess we're thinking about licking it up. I don't know. Well, okay. All right. That's fair. But the over the top stuff now, I mean, they were listening to stuff in the OR the other day. I'm like, I don't know who's screaming what, but there were a lot of NSFW words in there. Tim Kitzrow, Laser Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, Mirco Playfields. Yeah, they're very explicit.
    61:08
    Well, here's a question I have for you guys. Okay. We haven't seen a Stern pinball vault in a long time. Do you think we see one anytime soon? And if so, what would it be? I will say no, because the purpose of the vault... Well, there's two purposes of the vaults. One is if something's not selling and they need something else to put in the line and there's a demand for it, Then they'll throw them on, you know, for a week or a couple days. That's the one of the first reasons. The second reason is
    61:42
    possibly, and this is me speculating, filling contractual obligations. And so if they still have contractually obligated to either do a certain amount or a theme or things like that, then yes, I think that makes sense. The challenge is they are so far behind in
    61:59
    production that I don't think they need to They don't need to do the 401k tour that a lot of bands are doing because they're still selling the the great you know they don't have to resort to a greatest hits album uh they're still selling big stuff however uh the the the go-to that i would absolutely say if you're gonna vault something you're gonna vault tron because that that is a that is a slam dunk option you can slap a new artwork on there as long as you keep daft punk as the music i think there might be other Other ones out there? I don't know. I still think Lord of the Rings is the one. Okay. But aside from those, what would you have a hard time vaulting Lord of the Rings without actually putting an LCD in it and putting the movie clips in there? Then you have to revamp stuff at that point. I think you could get away with animated. I think you could get away with like a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. And so you didn't have to deal with all the licensing rights. Oh, I don't know. What's that? That's like saying, it's like the people that say Harry Potter, I'd be fine with a novel form of a pinball machine Oh no Okay No God no So you saying you going to bring Gandalf out of retirement Mmm Ian McClelland I want to throw this out here too Let's not do the gold foil back glass though. I was going to say, hold on Zach. Back to your question. I don't foresee them doing a vault anytime soon. With how backlogged they are, it's either if they're going to have titles to fill I feel like it's going to be either the pin or it's going to be just some of these offshoots that they're starting to do occasionally. But like Scott said, I think we're getting to a point where they're so backlogged. And when we're at the end of 2021 and they're already booking out into 2023, there's no reason to do a vault at this point. Okay. When you're not even building, you know, Stranger Things, you're not building Led Zeppelins, and those are things that are current. They're within your catalog. I don't see a reason to go back and say, Hey, let's do another round of Iron Man. It's like, well, why? Because you're selling, you're selling gangbusters on Ghostbusters and Mandalorian. And I mean, it's, well, maybe they could do a Ghostbusters rerun though. Maybe that could be a vault.
    64:30
    Cause Ghostbusters, uh, it kind of, it, it was a brutal game. Didn't sell very well. It sold great based on theme, but then people gave up on it, and rightfully so. But they may want to ruin that. I don't know, Zach, outside of Tron and Lord of the Rings, do you have a vibe for what you would want? I will say you brought up Ghostbusters. Prior to this most recent pinball resurgence, I would, this is merely speculation and guess, a pretty strong hypothesis here. I think that Ghostbusters was likely their greatest selling pinball machine all the way back to maybe ACDC. I think it sold them tons. Yeah, I think you're right though. But whenever I asked you guys that question, I was being sneaky because I had a follow-up because I knew you would say no to the whole vault idea. What if I pitched you this? That's a podcast I do like myself. What if I pitched you this listener?
    65:34
    Scott, Josh, you say, no, they don't have time for a vault. Why would they do that? Well, picture this picture them having an awesome game called Elvira that everybody wants. Okay. And then they come out because everybody wants it. They can't build that many that quick and a vault maybe won't, you can't build that many. So they come out with a 40th anniversary that is selling for $25,000 to $30,000. Now what if you take something like a Tron Listener or a Ghostbusters or a Lord of the Rings and you only make 200 of them but you sell them for $25,000 to $40,000. Now does that make sense? This is a game that everybody has wanted new in the box for years. A proven entity, and with only 250 released, wallets are opening up in my opinion. Please send your hate mail to Zach at Flip N Out Pinball. Don't give him those ideas. I see y'all's gears turning though. Sadly, I see that in the future. So Scott, tell me, you just sold a Tron Pro. How much did you sell that for? Listener, by the way, that number is $15,000. So no, I can, as much as I don't want to say it, Zach, I think you're on to something. Yeah, I think you are too. Okay, I will say though, that Tron is giving me ulcers because I have a very customized Tron. And it is a beautiful machine and I put it out there for what I consider a premium price, but I wasn't willing to part with it for anything other than a premium price. And so I put it out there and I actually got someone who was local who was looking and came down and looked at it. Super nice guy, his name is Brandon. Super nice guy and he decided yes, he wants it. And we haven't, it's a verbal commitment right now. And then my son tells me, but dad, that's my favorite game. Oh. Yeah. Oh, that takes a knife right to your heart.
    68:06
    You're like, we got Godzilla coming in. I promise that'll be your next favorite game. No, I will say that he is a very sweet kid. And so part of me is, I'm really struggling right now Duane Memines m cruisepod.com Oh Papa! Look at the chrome! Okay, but yes. Papa, all the mods. The arcade mod. Oh, the arcade mod cost more than the Switch. The light cycle, Papa. Yeah. So anyway. The custom light cycle that comes off the front of the pinball machine you actually sit on as you play Tron. That would be, I think you certainly, if you're looking for a quick grab, you could certainly do exactly what you're saying. I'm not really sure what you're saying. I would still prefer if they updated it a little bit. Like I said, if I mean, obviously, like they did with Elvira, they probably do some trim and stuff like that. But I still want to see an LCD Lord of the Rings. I think they're definitely looking for different opportunities and having like a premium super limited edition option they will do. But I would suggest they will do both in the future. Like right now they could do the cash grab option, but they could also do a release because at some point this roller coaster is going to slow down my friends. We're all gonna throw up. The Tron would be easy though because you're not going that far back to do a Tron. If you're still redoing Iron Man, you could easily do a Tron and make it really cool. Yeah, but the word easy and the word Disney shouldn't go in the same sentence. I mean... I bet that license is harder to get than Lord of the Rings. Yeah, you're probably right. Anytime Disney's associated, they're very jealous of their license. But no, I was just thinking about it the other day and that's, it came to me. I was like, okay, Elvira 40th editions are surprisingly selling well and they are selling high and this is a game that they're still building as a premium. I wonder what would happen if they thought to themselves, Hey, why don't we just do this, Maybe not to a pin we're still making? I don't know. From a business standpoint, it makes sense. Stern, you're onto something. You know my number. Ugh. To get on the Flippin' Out Super L.E. Tron list, contact Zach and the crew. You know what's funny? As soon as this releases, I'll have 15 or 20 messages. It never fails. I'll sit here on the, like, sit here working, and all of a sudden, ding. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And I'll be like, Loser Kid must have released their episode. Yeah, it's like, alright, what podcast are we talking about? Ding, ding, ding. Oh, okay. I better listen to somebody's podcast. Yeah. Okay. Well, I, okay. You know, Zach, I'm going to put myself on the Tron and the Lord of the Rings list. And if it's the right price, then I will absolutely consider it. But you know what I always say, it never hurts to get on a list. Yeah. All right. Scott is now on the Tron list. What else? Founder list, uh, Lord of the Rings. I love how half this episode's been like, Scott's like, put me on the list. Put me on the list. I'm interested in a limited edition topper for those as well. Okay, Zach, have you ever known me not to buy a topper? I'm adding that now. Yeah, pretty much every time I message Zach that I want a topper with a pin, he always laughs and he's like, you're already on that list. I'm waiting for it to get like the kids back in my high school days, Nelly, getting two per. That's what I'm waiting for. Wow. I thought Scott's list was long with Zach for flipping out on purchases and I saw Joe Fox was like man. Yeah, Joe is crazy. Basically, I look like a guy with like a with basically a I dabble in the addiction. Joe is like a full on rock star with the parties he's throwing. Fox is a rock star. I have Nicole and I have the best customers and friends in the world. Yeah. He's a great dude. I wish we could have taken him to dinner. What is up with us? We never got to take you to dinner. Joe Fox? Zach was working. He was working. He was making it rain. Well, because when you were done working, it was 10 o'clock at night and no one wants to go get Chicago deep dish at 10 o'clock at night. Hey, I would have gone, but I was exhausted. I would have too. Because I'm an old man. Speaking of, are you guys going to TPF? Yes. Yeah, that's the plan. I'll fly in Friday and fly back Sunday. I'm so pumped for that. It feels weird though that like TPF is only technically like two days long versus Expo that was like five. Okay, but Expo and we talked about this, the frustration that I had with the way they did the scheduling at Expo and they, I wish they had more stuff. It seemed like there was a lot of waiting for the floor to open up. So I'm looking forward to TPF where it's going to be just, it's a, you know, a skills induced Tim Kitzrow, Laser Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, Mirco Playfields. Look, my buddies have been telling me, Zach, like, you've been doing this for three years now. Can you not just hang out with us at a show and not have a, not be, you know, stuck at your booth? And I thought, after this last expo in Pinsonati, you know what, guys? Yeah. Like, I would like to have a break and to hang out as a hobbyist. And so, yeah, we've got a booth paid for at TPF. Wonderful folks facilitating that, the Vanderbilt and stuff. We're going to be utilizing that space for the TPN booth and Flip N Out is going to take a step away from that as well. Nice. Okay. I'm enjoying life, guys. I'm, you know, life is short. You got to put Amanda Hamilton in charge of the TPN booth because she would rock it. She would rock it. Absolutely. So this is like the Flip N Out-a-sance. You know, like we had the Matthew McConaughey, the McCona-sance. All right, all right, all right. This is the Flip N Out. I'm finding myself Scott Larson in Lincoln. Have to take him out to the parking lot and get him some barbecue. Yeah. I just need to do the chest thing now. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Reverend Wolfer. My wife and I were talking to the youth the other day and she brought up Matthew McConaughey and
    75:05
    this age group was about 12 to 13 year olds and they just looked at her, who's Matthew McConaughey? Yeah. We've gotten that old. And then she pulled out the line from Dazed and Confused, you know the best part about girls. Be a lot cooler if you did. All right. Oh my goodness. Hey, Zach, by the way, Zach not only sells pinball machines, but you also have a deal with Raw Thrills, don't you? I love Raw Thrills. Yeah. Chill, chill, chill. If you're looking for that big buck hunter, go ahead and grab that and put that downstairs. I'm trying to figure out how to get one downstairs in my basement. We'll figure it out. Well, if you heard, you listened to the Josh Sharp episode and Raw Thrills loves you too, Zach. It's mutual. This relationship is growing strong. I love all the people over there at Raw Thrills. Okay, by the way, do you want a commission for the next person who buys the Jurassic Park environmental that you sell? Or the King Kong environmental? We can talk. That thing is huge. I know. That's a big one. Minecraft's big too. I cannot wait to... I'm like a kid in a candy store with Raw Thrill stuff because Raw Thrill stuff seems like the ultimate toy to me. Yeah. I don't care if it's at the Dave & Buster's, I don't care if it's in my basement, it's the ultimate toy so I'm always itching to see what they have coming out next. It reminds me of the original Nintendo game glove. If you knew a kid with that game glove, he was a legend. Oh yeah, it's like a power glove man. Yeah, the power, oh that's what it was, the power glove, yeah. Man. Yeah, I love the Roll Thrill stuff and I've been working with them and trying to nudge them in certain directions. You know, Josh Sharpe's hard-headed, but he's just such a brilliant, sharp guy that hopefully at some point we'll see more reason to get these into the home environments. I definitely, I think they need to figure out ways of doing that more and more because that is the future for all thrills. Yeah. So, especially big buck hunters at home, that would be huge. That's a no-brainer. They are making some movements to make them more accessible in the home setting. Oh good. Okay, well we're getting up about 80 minutes, so I need to get this boy to bed. One last note, one last note. We want to give our congratulations, condolences, I don't know. Happy trails. It's happy trails. Melancholy happy trails. Pinball Players Podcast. And man, it was awesome being on your show back in January. Loved listening to you guys Before we were podcast, Jeff, awesome job. Joe, way to go. Tanking another podcast. Talk about the winner curse. This is Joe Lemire curse. Wow. Ouch. Yeah. No, I love you Joe. I love you. You're going to hear about that from Joe.
    78:07
    We love you Lemire. Joe's a great guy. Yeah. But. All right, Zach, any, any parting wisdom? Not to those guys or to one.
    78:17
    Well, we, we did the melancholy happy trails. Now, now on the wrap up segment. Scott, don't you have a heart to get started again? Yeah. I think the world of you two, I don't need to plug, we've been plugging away all episode. No BS, you guys' show brings joy to my life because it's just another show that I enjoy that I don't have to edit. So please, please, please keep up the great work. I love your transparency. I love you guys just digging your feet in there. You probably don't even know that you're digging in. Just I love it. I just love the interactions that you have with your guests. So anything that you guys ever need, please, never hesitate, because myself, NICOLE and the rest of the pinball community, we've got your back. No, we appreciate that. And we appreciate you breaking out of your busy schedule. Zach just finished the whirlwind trip. Where were you last weekend? Oh, last weekend was Cincinnati for the show. Yeah. So, uh, so Zach is actually staying away past his bedtime to record with us. So we really do appreciate that. Hey, well, I woke up at 5 a.m. for you listeners out there that are familiar with Straight Down the Middle series on YouTube. That's a video series that myself and my best friend Greg Bone from Louisville, Kentucky do. And I woke up at 5 a.m. to go over there. He was drinking coffee. He hadn't had his beers yet. And I caught him early and we recorded some episodes. So we have a lot of fun stuff coming. And I'm going to give you guys some of the info that we've got coming. Straight Down the Middle is going to have a Godzilla review coming up next. After that, we're going to have a top 10 list that I don't think anybody's really discussed much. And I cannot wait for you guys to see that. And then in our third video upcoming before the end of the year, you guys are going to We're going to see us do another review, but this time it's going to be non-pinball related. To be continued. The rubber bands episode finally, huh? And keep listening to the pinball show on the Pinball Network because I'm in love with Dennis Kriesel. Yes. Hey, Dennis. Goose-a-boo-a, baby. Love you. You know what? We had a great time with him and Anthony. We went and got some roast beef sandwiches, some Italian beef there at Expo, man. Okay, but you were the only one who did not order the sausage. I know. You missed out on the sausage. It sounded like a sausage party. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it kinda was, yeah. Three out of four anyway. Someone forgot their sausage. Tony's okay, but Den Den's where it's at. The most dynamic personality in pinball media for the last two years running, Dennis Kriesel. Talk about awards. Give that guy an award. I don't know anybody that's more deserving than him. He's got a t-shirt. Well, bring back Jesse J's Pinball Podcast, because wasn't she gonna award him like the most eligible bachelor in pinball or something like that? I don't even think she deserves him. Oh, wow. I don't think she was the award. No, not her as the award, but I thought they were giving out an award. Wasn't it they were trying to find the most eligible bachelor and pinball player? Yeah, eligible pinball player. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. He sits on his own throne of snark and there's nothing that can match it. He is the king of snark. Be careful, guys. Don't get crazy. Snark, snark. All right. No, thank you. Thank you for coming on, Zach. We appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks, Scott, for staying up so freaking late with us. 36 hours later. If you want to get a hold of us, actually before I get my spill, Zach, how can they get a hold of you? You can get a hold of me by emailing Zach, Z-A-C-H at FlipTheLetterInOutPinball.com for the sake of Scott's poor eyes. He looks like he's been at a Rush concert right there. You can text me for the quickest response at 812-457-9711 or just go make your purchase right now at FlipInOutPinball.com. Don't forget to share our episode for the contest entry. And you know what? I have like one or two things. I gave away most of the stuff at Expo, but I have a few more things too. And so there are not two awards, but there are three, count them, three awards that you can enter in if you share our episode and get the word out there. Nice. Share, share, share. And we will be giving these away not next episode because our next episode is the Christmas special. And so we already have some clips coming in. If you want to submit a clip you've got till Monday. I know this is springing it on you quick. Sometimes that's the best because apparently people procrastinate when you give them three weeks. No. But if you want to give us your pinball wishes, your pinball Christmas wishes, I don't care if it's Christmas. I know people out there that do Hanukkah. You got Kwanzaa. Send us your wishes, your holiday wishes. Inspire us. Festivus. Yes. If you want to do that. Send them to at Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. Also, if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and also on Twitch. Other than that. And if you want to follow us on insider, Josh is Loser Kid because he was the first one to sign up. So I'm Loser Kid too. The number two, not T-O-O.
    83:29
    Other than that, got anything else for us before we shut this, shut this pig down? No. Nope. Nothing. Win a banner, share this episode. It's easy. It's free. Come on, people.
    83:43
    Do it. As, as Ben Stiller once said, do it. Do it. Do it. All right. Thanks. See you. See you for the Christmas episode.
    84:17
    lesgobot,