Episode 102 - Community Building

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·47m 40s·analyzed·Oct 6, 2025

Buzzsprout-17952280

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Community building, not game selection or equipment, drives pinball growth—practical guide to local scene development.

Summary

Alan and Alex from Wedgehead Pinball Podcast discuss community building as the most critical factor in sustaining pinball. They outline macro-level resources (Pinball Map, Pinside, IFPA, etc.), practical steps for starting a local scene from scratch (befriending operators, running leagues), and tactical tips for recruiting new players—including Allen's updated strategy of playing adjacent machines rather than directly competing, which allows new players to experience wins and feel agency rather than being outmatched by experienced players.

Key Claims

Pinball is microscopically niche with very few players or enthusiasts globally
high confidence · Alan discusses how people still react with 'they still make those things?' when learning about pinball interest, evidencing the hobby's tiny market size.
Community building is the single most important factor in pinball's future viability
high confidence · Core thesis stated repeatedly: 'Pinball needs to grow and community is often the least discussed, but it's actually the most important part of pinball becoming culturally relevant again.'
Operators are more motivated by full coin boxes and earner performance than by specific game selection
high confidence · Alan: 'you really don't need 25 you don't need 50 machines to run events' and 'you have someone excited to come to your spot they're not going to care if you have nothing but you know shack attacks and ravens sitting there.'
New players should not directly compete against experienced players during introduction to pinball
high confidence · Allen's updated strategy: play adjacent machines instead of head-to-head to avoid discouraging new players through skill disparity and score comparison.
Older solid-state and EM machines equalize skill levels better than modern games for introducing new players
medium confidence · Alan: 'the older games are great at [equalizing] the skill levels' allowing new players to achieve victory and build confidence.
Wedgehead bar in Portland was created seven years ago by Alan and operator Chris Rhodes
high confidence · Direct statement: 'I own and run a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon called Wedgehead. My business partner, Chris Rhodes, is a longtime route operator in Portland. And seven years ago, we formed together to create Wedgehead.'
The podcast is moving to a biweekly release schedule due to burnout after 100+ episodes over two years
high confidence · Alan: 'Alex and I are moving to twice a month every other week release schedule for this show. We've been at it for two years and over 100 episodes, and I'm just tired, damn it.'

Notable Quotes

“Pinball is not the kind of game that you just spend fifty thousand dollars on a few machines plunk them in somewhere don't tell anybody about them and then magically they earn a bunch of money.”
Alan @ N/A — Core argument that community engagement, not equipment investment alone, drives operator success.
“You can even convince people that games like Popeyes are fun. It's crazy what you can do when you're kind of... You need to be a Svengali type. You need to bamboozle people.”
Alan and Alex @ N/A — Emphasizes the power of community and social environment over objective game quality in creating player engagement.
“don't mistake us promoting non-ifpa formats us saying that ifpa shit's always bad it's very much not.”
Alex @ N/A — Clarifies that IFPA tournaments add legitimacy and structure for new event organizers despite the hosts' general support for alternative formats.
“All it takes is just being like, hey, you want to meet up? What if we went to this spot? You want to play a little pinball?”
Alex @ N/A — Simplifies recruitment strategy: use pinball as casual social excuse rather than as primary hook.
“as you get better at pinball it gets harder and harder for you to be the one that introduces a total noob to pinball... the new player still is going to be terrible.”
Alan @ N/A — Identifies critical problem in player recruitment: skill disparity discourages new players and creates perception they don't belong.
“if you are playing, like, a little bit longer, like a DMD game or something, a longer playing game, I think it helps having three people. So two people always get to hang out and talk.”
Alex @ N/A — Practical tip: multiplayer dynamics reduce wait-time boredom and maintain social engagement for new players.
“prioritize the vibe of the spot if you're introducing people versus the quality of the games.”
Alan @ N/A — Key principle: environment and atmosphere matter more than competitive-grade machines for recruitment.

Entities

AlanpersonAlex (The Waterboy)personChris RhodespersonWedgehead Pinball PodcastorganizationWedgeheadorganizationPinball Maporganization Pinsideorganization IFPAorganization

Signals

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business_signal: Podcast shifting to sustainable biweekly schedule after burnout from 100+ episodes over two years; monetizing via Ko-fi and Discord membership.
high · Alan explicitly states fatigue as reason; emphasizes quality preservation; marketing Discord access as value-add for supporters.
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community_signal: Hosts acknowledge past criticism of Pinside and IFPA while nuancing their stance; defend IFPA legitimacy for new organizers despite preferring non-sanctioned formats.
medium · Alex: 'don't mistake us promoting non-ifpa formats us saying that ifpa shit's always bad it's very much not'—clarification against implied criticism.
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community_signal: Wedgehead Podcast launching private Discord community funded through Ko-fi donations to deepen listener engagement and allow off-podcast discussion.
high · Alex announces Discord server requiring minimum Ko-fi donation; positioned as extension of podcast community with ongoing interaction.
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community_signal: Portland, Oregon (Wedgehead bar) positioned as functional community hub for location pinball with operator partnership and event infrastructure.
high · Seven-year-old bar operated by Alan and Chris Rhodes; hosts leagues and tournaments; referenced as model for community development.
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design_philosophy: New player onboarding requires strategic game selection and instructor positioning to avoid discouragement; older solid-state/EM machines equalize skill gaps better than modern games.
high · Allen's updated recruitment strategy: play adjacent machines rather than head-to-head; older games allow new players to experience victory and agency.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.143

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Hello, loyal listeners. My name is Alan, and in case y'all missed it at the end of our last episode, Alex and I are moving to twice a month every other week release schedule for this show. We've been at it for two years and over 100 episodes, and I'm just tired, damn it. Like, that's really it. We're going to keep making the best quality show for y'all. But in between new releases, I want to urge y'all to use those off weeks to catch up on the back catalog or go back and listen to an old favorite episode once again if you really need to hear our voices one week in between the new releases, okay? But if you want even more content, my co-host Alex, a.k.a. The Waterboy, has something he cannot wait to tell you all about. That's right, Alan. I can't wait to tell the listeners about our Discord server where we're in there. You know, we're talking about new games and stuff we never talk about on the show. We're chopping it up with the gang. Chopping it up. Yeah, if you want an invite to that private Discord server, all you got to do is like send us literally any minimum donation, I believe, on our Ko-fi account. That's our little Ko-fi fundraiser, which helps pay for our travels to various pinball locations across the country. The URL is ko-fi.com slash Wedgehead podcast. You know, you'll know you're in the right spot just because there will be other things there to indicate that, I suppose. You'll figure it out. yeah yeah and you throw us a few bucks you throw us you know half a half of a cup of coffee even and you get an invite to the discord and we really appreciate the support it's very cool and we do like hanging out in the discord talking to everybody it's been fun that's right it's a good time and if you want to join us over there come on in we love to have you but this episode this week could have been titled many things like my original title how to brainwash people into playing pinball with you but since the easiest way to brainwash somebody is not to mention that as your goal right in the title itself, we will go with the more innocuous title, How to Grow a Pinball Community Instead. Over the last 100 plus episodes of the show, we've been secretly feeding you bits and pieces of this. And this single thing is the reason why we even bother to do this damn show at all. Alex and I, of course, both love pinball. But in particular, we both love location pinball. We're friends because of location pinball. As listeners of the show know, I own and run a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon called Wedgehead. My business partner, Chris Rhodes, is a longtime route operator in Portland. And seven years ago, we formed together to create Wedgehead, the pinball bar for which the podcast is named after. Yeah, and as listeners know, I frequent the bar in Portland called Wedgehead. Yeah, and some listeners over in England like to call the bar in the middle of a Friday evening and ask for the water boy on the phone. Because they don't realize that you're just part of the podcast. I always tell people, if you're looking for me, you just look up, you know, Wedgehead in the yellow pages. give them a ring and they'll get you they'll get you sorted we believe in the power of pinball and location and we want to see it thrive it's true there's a problem inherent to this hobby though that we all love and that is that it's microscopically niche there really aren't that many pinball players or enthusiasts in the world right now and before you say otherwise this is evidenced by the fact that people upon hearing of your interest in pinball still usually results in pinball they still make those things that's the response you get pretty much all the time so while not all of the world's problems can be solved by pinball becoming more popular again a lot of our problems as pinball players can be solved problems like no games near me check operators don't maintain those games check more theme variety check and whilst we have touched on so many different aspects of the pinball hobby such as topping with other passionate pinball operators, and our most listened to episode of the show, Pinball Economics 101. We have episodes like So You Want to Play Pinball and even How to Run an Independent Pinball Arcade. We cover tournament pinball and my own event, Howdy Partner, and different episodes back in the archives. But all of these episodes have today's topic represented in bits and pieces. Today, I wanted to kind of bring it all together and discuss in detail what is actually the single most important thing in pinball, and that is the community building aspect of it all. What do you think about that, Alex? Yeah, I think it's something that we talk about a lot. And if like the pinball community is not actively growing, this hobby is just going to die out eventually, which would be a shame. You can kind of take the like old guy approach of not caring. But you're like, if you actually care about this hobby, that's probably for a reason. And you probably want to see other people enjoy it the same way you do, which means you need the community to be growing. Yes. And so community building matters because pinball is a big, clunky, expensive and constantly breaking piece of archaic technology. And as such, for it to continue to exist in the future, it needs a community of people around it. Those people include manufacturers. Those manufacturers need distributors. Those distributors need buyers like collectors or operators. Operators and collectors need parts. Repair knowledge needs to be written down and shared. We need forums and groups for us to communicate with each other. We need local business owners to be kind enough to make space for our giant dumb machines. And we need local players who are willing to go the process and holding leagues and tournaments. Pinball needs to grow and community is often the least discussed, but it's actually the most important part of pinball becoming culturally relevant again. and I wanted to do a dedicated episode on this because I feel like most of the time when we talk about this stuff, it's always like, I want to start a route or I want to start a place or we're talking to other operators and they're like, this game does well for me. This is how I started. And if you read between the lines, it always comes down to, you have to build a community. Either add to what's there or build from scratch. But really the part that keeps people coming back to play is the community you build pinball is not the kind of game that you just spend fifty thousand dollars on a few machines plunk them in somewhere don't tell anybody about them and then magically they earn a bunch of money and everyone's into pinball now like that's not what happens yeah i do think the biggest thing for just building the player base and pinball community in general is literally getting machines on location well you need access they do some level of advertising on their own by being big glowing boxes and bars and stuff but it you'll never have anything thriving if you just plunk games down somewhere like you said and i think that's the thing that always goes lost in some of these discussions where it's like people are curious i think more people are more curious now about the idea of hobby operating their own games i answered these questions a lot us as operators we like to talk about what game earns or whatever and you're like kind of really doesn't matter you really need people that are excited to come to your spot once a week or a couple times a week and play pinball together yeah and so that's less important than does godzilla earn more than venom like it doesn't really fucking matter at the end of the day you have someone excited to come to your spot they're not going to care if you have nothing but you know shack attacks and ravens sitting there like you know what like you can have the literal lowest rated games of all time and if you have customers that like like your place and want to support you and this is where they meet up with their friends and stuff those games are going to earn for you and then what's funny is you get to come into the discord and be like hey guys shack attack and raven are earning like crazy crazy money machine going but like but really i think yeah having the community is what matters you can even convince people that games like Popeyes are fun. It's crazy what you can do when you're kind of... You need to be a Svengali type. You need to bamboozle people. That's what we're going to talk about on this episode. So I want to start with some resources for everyone. And fortunately, a lot of them on the macro level already exist. And we've talked about them on the show. Ryan and Scott, former Portlanders, created the Pinball Map. And you can listen to that episode if you want to know more about that incredible resource. Yeah, it's the single most important piece of technology on my phone. Oh, it's the best, dude. It's the pinball map is a godsend. You know, a guy named Robin created Pinside, which is the world's largest pinball forum. Obviously, we pull a lot of content from that website for our Dying Hill series. Yeah, we talk a lot of shit about Pinside, but it's a very useful resource. It's a long running forum. And so there's a lot of good information there. And they also have a really funny top 100 list. That's always fun to poke fun at so and a good active marketplace yes exactly there's a lot of great value in pin side lots of guys especially when a new game comes out they'll have a forum thread about like here's issues i'm having here's what i did to solve this thing and just lots of like really technical expertise and stuff on there too um our friend greg created and runs tilt forums which actually has real deal knowledge and documentation about the ever-changing rule sets of new games in particular yeah and of course the pinball subreddit continues to grow I mean, we see it all the time. IPDB is perfectly stuck in the 1990s user interface encyclopedia of every pinball machine ever made. We have Clay's Guide and the Pin Wiki started by Casey Gardner. And Chris Hibbler makes incredible YouTube videos showcasing how to diagnose and fix our games. We have Pinball Life, Marco, and others. They exist for parts for your pinball machine. People have redesigned and remanufactured new and improved replacement boards of all types. and we have powerful tournament software and the ifpa exists through volunteer efforts to help us all run tournaments easily nowadays these are all examples of how people and companies have helped grow pinball in the last 20 years through community building efforts these are the massive macro level efforts of community building but thankfully they've already been done at the time of this recording 2025 so we can talk about your local scene the grassroots level right but i just want to showcase like think about you as a pinball player and getting into the hobby and all of these things that you have access to are just they're all just created by people that are passionate about pinball and some of them might be sustainable enough that they can make it a full-time job but none of these people are getting rich doing this it was all a lot of effort put in just to help the community out 100 that's what makes pinball great the people is what makes pinball great always and everybody there's a lot of passionate people and only one of them's gotten rich uh joe cam and cow and he did it off slot machines exactly exactly so this next section we're calling how to start a scene from scratch oh okay i think the first thing i do is find this nearest spot to you that has machines on location and find out who the operator of the machines are and then you need to contact them and start up a friendship start just start a friendship yeah Okay. If you need help learning how to become friends, there's a great movie starring Tim Robinson and Paul Rudd called Friendship. And you should follow that exact... Floor tunnels together and stuff? What if the operator's an asshole? Hey, okay. So some operators are like wild horses. So you need to make sure that you approach them with a pure heart and kind demeanor so as not to spook them. That's how I approach Led Zeppelin, the pinball machine. Exactly. It works out perfectly. If you want to hear more about this process check out episode 23 How to Talk to an Operator because we talked about this in depth on that episode right yeah but once you have befriended a local operator and you can message alex in particular because alex is the operator whisperer he seems to make friends with every pimple operator he's ever met so if you need questions about how to how to talk to one of us i just talk to alex find them to be intriguing people you know it's all the experience approaching led zeppelin i just carries over they're just misunderstood creatures like led zeppelin by sir let's have let the pitbull machine i'm not talking about the band but the pinball machine is a deeply misunderstood animal and uh you just have to show it some respect and the operators are the same thing you know yeah so once you've befriended the local operator work on using the access you have to get those games to be maintained well now we talk about this in that episode don't abuse this access and don't bother them with silly shit right like seriously be reasonable and understanding of the time but also make sure to show them with your money how much you appreciate them showing up to service their games in a timely manner a full coin box is motivating to an operator and a game that earns well is going to jump up the priority list of an operator service quickly when something breaks. Also, flattery helps. Say nice things, be a nice person. I don't do that to operators. I never compliment them. The worst thing you can do is compliment Rhodes.

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But while you're in this courtship period, make sure to get to know the staff, managers, and owners of the establishment that house the operators' games too. Because you need to befriend them as well. be a good low maintenance regular customer that they look forward to seeing come in and then ask them if they would allow you to the opportunity to start up a pinball league or to run some regular tournaments there on a slower night basically sell it as hey i like pinball i got some people that like pinball we want to come in here and play pinball and spend some money in your business and they're like cool we're a business we like money yeah businesses do like money uh generally speaking sometimes they make questions or they make decisions that make you question that but also i do want to say that you really don't need a spot with that many games to do this you can do this with just like two or three games somewhere absolutely you can run either tiny tournaments or you could just do like practice days meetups where you just kind of explain you know where it just hangs and then do like uh high score chases throughout the week or something if you don't want to crowd the games there's a lot of ways to do this just with whatever you have at your disposal yep if they have two or three sterns you can set up uh you know a leader board and you could run high score chases that way yeah that'd be shit like that you know what i mean but again that's like befriending the operator befriending the location owners and like yeah you really you don't need 25 you don't need 50 machines to run events yeah don't make the mistake of thinking like this is never going to happen in your town you're never going to like have a good pinball scene because there's only three games all scenes started with three games at one point yes exactly and then the last thing you got to do is get yourself brachylope or match play and register your events with ifpa start a social media account start promoting your league or your tournaments make posters to hang around the room and just coordinate your plans with the location of the operator like once you've befriended them once you're there once they see that you're the person that wants to support their businesses whether it's pinball or it's the bar or the restaurant that the games are in they're gonna be like yeah okay well justin comes by a couple times a week and plays these damn things so like he wants to have a tournament great yeah you know that's awesome we love him yeah you know what i mean that's really all it takes is like you need to facetime it's communication and it's just community in general we got to know each other just because you would come into the bar yeah it's unbelievable that is why i that's how i befriend all operators is just by hanging around them to support the business like that's all it really comes down to yeah and i do think like we've talked a lot about tournaments and ifpa tournaments versus like unofficial pinball tournaments and stuff and tournaments generally like we're always kind of pro not ifpa i would say because it gives you more freedom and how you run things but when you're starting new stuff i do think it adds legitimacy to the whole thing it'll make people kind of understand like this is a real thing like we're not setting up some fucking like hokey made up tournament like if it's like you know this is an actual ifpa tournament or something and then if there are it gives you structure too it gives you maybe as a new person to be like here's the backbone and structure they're gonna help me run an event yep yep so it's just like don't mistake us promoting non-ifpa formats us saying that ifpa shit's always bad it's very much not yeah no absolutely not want to give you guys some tips for recruiting new players you know again this is obvious but you got to utilize your social network and i always suggest use playing pinball as an excuse to hang out with your friends, co-workers, or other social group members. All it takes is just being like, hey, you want to meet up? What if we went to this spot? You want to play a little pinball? Yeah, that's it. That's really all it takes. Pinball machines are usually in places that people hang out at already or, you know, aren't, it's not super outlandish to hang out there anyway. And so it's like, yeah, if you're just like, hey, me and a usually meet up for drinks or whatever. There's a brewery. You want to get a beer? You're like, how about we meet up at a place that has pinball machines? That's very much how I got into the hobby. Me and my buddy Craig would just kind of, it's like we would regularly go out for drinks after work or whatever. And then we just started like switching to places that had pinball. Exactly. And all you need to do to grow the player base around you is think about all your buddies. You're going to hang out with your buddy anyway. Take your buddy who's not into pinball and just bring them to a spot that has pinball and then just play while you're hanging out. Yeah. Same thing. Co-workers, whatever, any excuse, people in your life that you have to be around anyway, have a business meeting, you know, or a work meeting or something, a little after party. Hey, why don't we have it here? They got good pizza and pinball, you know, like it could just, that's all it has to be is like, you got it. You just got to put people where pinball machines are. That's it. That's the first step. And then I like to say, teach them the game in pieces. don't dump a lot of info on them all at the same time focus on the easiest multi-ball or the coolest feature of the game first like shoot the castle i'm not familiar with that phrase i think you're talking about shoot the moving basket and shack attack shoot the moving basket that's right yeah you're right shack attack is the one that's right that you're thinking of exactly you get yeah we've if you you know that's a big part of this is choosing a good gateway game and uh if you need help doing that you can go listen to our episode all about gateway games episode number 52 you might be noticing a theme here we've talked about this a lot little bits and pieces we've been doing the show for a long time and i wanted to have reference points so that this can be a nice and tight episode and be like you want to know more about this aspect you know your boys have already covered this shit in detail go check out that episode instead yes okay ever since we did our gateway episode i have discovered a new allen top tip oh on how to get people into pinball i didn't know there were allen top tips there are allen top tips there are allen top tips and this is the number one this is this is fresh off the press you never heard this before this wasn't covered in an episode it's covered previously only in our private discord channel but after you listen to our gateway game episode which i stand by all the advice in there on how to choose a good gateway game what i've also discovered is as you get better at pinball it gets harder and harder for you to be the one that introduces a total noob to pinball yeah and that's because you get really good and they stay the same yeah like the new player still is going to be terrible yeah the players you're trying to introduce are always starting at zero and your skill level is just going up and up and so the problem is when i first was starting to get people into pinball and i would pay for their games and i would do things i would teach them a game you weren't we would we would play together and i would probably win most of those games but i would lose some games too even when i won it's not like i was having 20 minute balls yeah now that's a different story and so it makes it worse so i want to update my tech i've noticed this i've noticed this with myself too it used to be easier it used to be easier right yeah and then now there's a certain part where it doesn't feel good to tell your buddy to meet you at a bar surprise them be like hey oh my god what are these pinball machines doing here you guys want to check them out have you ever seen jurassic park before and then they go i guess and then you play it and then you play a 30 minute ball this is called nooblar and uh yeah you're not gonna see this one for 10 years kid and then it's not they are not gonna have as much fun as you're having playing a 30-minute game as they're waiting and they're draining their balls every 20 seconds or whatever like i've also found that it is genuinely hard to lose the ball without it being obvious like short of because it's like my genuine mistakes usually confuse players because they're like why didn't you flip or something you're like oh i was i was trying to dead bounce and i misjudged i hit the flip or crotch or whatever that's already confusing to them so if they see you like completely not flip and just like let a ball drain they'll be like what was that you're letting me win yeah and they like nobody likes that and it's hard it's hard to lose a game convincingly it becomes its own game in and of itself which so here's my new updated strat again this only depends on what games you have access to in your local scene different scenes have different amounts of machines and all that entail. I said on our Gateway Games episode, you know, the older games aren't that great, even though we love them. But here's what the older games are great at. They equalize the skill levels. So what I like to do is I still on our Gateway Games episode, I like to choose a game like Attack from Mars, Monster Bash, Mute, Madness, Lord of the Rings, whatever it is, a good Gateway game. And then I like to give them one thing to do. Shoot the castle, get this, whatever. Then what i do now instead of playing a game with them i play whatever games next to them yeah and let them discover it on their own and then i just kind of am looking over as they're playing if they get the multi-ball or they sink their first castle i'm like hell yeah that's fucking awesome and because they get to go oh shit i did this thing it was cool it was rewarding and then they don't have to go oh shit i got seven million on medieval madness is that good And then you're like, no, buddy, I got 100 million. I've never even seen 7 million before. Exactly. You get to gas them up a little bit as you're playing something else, right? So those games with the ball saves and the multi balls and the cool gimmicks are still really good for a new player. But they're really good when you're not there stomping a mud hole in their ass and they have to compare it to you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so what then I like to do is once they have that first bite of like, that was fun. I got Frankenstein multiball or whatever. I got this cool moment. I got to hit Balrog on Lord of the Rings or whatever it is. Then you go, all right, they got this like Paragon or whatever over here. It was like, look at this art package, isn't it? Crazy, right? And then you guys go and play and then you play a couple of games and you're a better player, so you'll probably still win. But those games are going to go by fast. And then what's going to happen is they will beat you. yeah they will beat you on an old solid state or an em in a way that they will never beat you on godzilla yeah they might not even clock it but then you go oh my god you beat me and then you get to do this are you sure you don play any pinball this is the fucking this is the strat guys i telling you i'm telling you are you sure you don't play any pinball because i play a lot of pinball like i play a lot like my whole thing man you got me you might be the most naturally gifted pinball player i've ever seen you should come out and play some more yeah you're like we actually They're having this IFPA tournament on Saturday. It's a $50 buy-in.

24:20

It's super sweaty. You're going to have a great time. No, but that's Alan's top tip that I wanted to add to this episode. Because I've been thinking extra about this. Because I'm like, it used to be so much easier when I was terrible at pinball. And then as you get better, it's not that much fun to wait. Like, they're struggling and suck at pinball. They're at ground zero. And then they're watching you just ball the fuck out. Yeah. Like, they're like, it just reaffirms to their head, like, this isn't for me. Even if they start the multiball, even if they have a cool moment, because then they're comparing it to whatever you just did. Yeah, it's kind of tough. I do think one thing to add to that, if you are playing, like, a little bit longer, like a DMD game or something, a longer playing game, I think it helps having three people. So two people always get to hang out and talk. If someone is, like, gotten to a multiball that's playing for a long time, as you start to get into it longer, you know. but in general it's like i like playing the multiplayer games where nobody sits down between rounds you know you're just standing there and you're like okay your turn okay my turn okay your turn yeah that's a lot more entertaining for a new player i would say than being like oh like no matter what you do it's like oh you're like oh yeah now i'm shooting for the building and now i'm starting guy again and you're like now i'm doing you know and you're like that's not you know that they're not ready for that yeah that's you got to plant the seed they'll just be watching you're going like whoa this guy is like really good at this i am not good at this and you're like yeah man it's cooler just be like we're both shooting for baskets on shack attack yeah dude we're just crushing shack attack exactly but you know you need to be a good steward you need to be a good host cheerlead their progress and here's the thing i said on the gateway episode another alan top tip that i started way back in the day but it's like don't even ask just pay for their games because i brought this up and then other people like i tried to pay for the games and they got all weird about it just shut the fuck up and just put the dollar in for them and then just play don't give them an opportunity skill issue on your part you need to sneak the quarters in there before they can do anything dude just pay for their experience because again the other thing that sucks about pinball is the learning curve is high the feedback is bad putting in a dollar and then being immediately bad yeah and so it's like don't even let them feel that exactly you go into wedgehead you walk up and you're like hey can i grab a miller light two wristbands you know like whatever and just be like yeah i'm buying the first round don't even like get it don't let it be an option yeah don't let them even think about it and then just get to work on them and then just work on trying to get them into pinball yeah you know so it's like removing the hurdles of the things that suck when you first started playing they agreed to come out and play this weird game with you so try and do anything that increases the likelihood of them having good experience pick a cool spot to hang out in don't pick the weirdest spot just because they have the to be fair we're going to come back to how this episode you know this is an episode about building community this isn't gateway game episode that's episode 52 i think uh it's true sometimes you have to just you take what you can get that's true whatever you have i guess but it's like you have the option if you have the option to find a cool spot with shittier games take that always prioritize the vibe of the spot if you're introducing people versus the quality of the games i would say yeah because sometimes the best pinball spots are far away with weird hours and only open for tournaments or whatever it is fluorescent lights and drop ceilings and fucking you know it's just a different thing right or going over to gary's house or whatever you know somebody's house that has it anybody any gary's house i would go to we're pro gary show yeah but i i will say again their first experience should not be just tournament or a league setting. Yeah. Just take them out and hang. Just take them and hang. Take like first 10 pinball experience. Yeah. You know, like second they're asking you about a game and you didn't bring up pinball at all. Then you go, hey, you know, there's a league on Tuesday. You want to come by? Yep. That's when you do it. Slow play it. You know? Yeah. This is my next advice is another Alan top tip is be an evangelist about it. pinball needs a carnival barker a drug pusher type to get more people interested in playing treat it like a sales job and if that's not a part of your personality because not everyone is a natural salesman you need to team up with somebody who does have that skill set find another local player who's a hype man yeah find somebody that can be that people person you know what i'm saying like because that's what building a community takes like i said you can put a bunch of games in and you hear it all the time from operators like i'm in a small town you know i'm trying you know i want people to come out it's like no man you need to be at that bar playing your games as other people are at that bar not even looking at your games go hey man you guys ever play pinball he's like these are my games i just got it come on over here my games are on me and just like get them to start playing like buy him a beer you know like be the dude yeah it's kind of remarkable like a lot of the operators that we know and talk to and have had on the show and stuff that's really their skill set is yes it's kind of sales but it's kind of like that's what all of this comes down to yes it's like you have to be able to do that if you want to see the place grow or you have to you know that you kind of just have to play to your own skills i suppose because not everybody puts themselves in front of the camera but people are good at like hyping stuff up making places look cool if you can get a pinball spot promoted on some local instagram page or some shit like that like stuff like that genuinely is like that's how you make this hobby grow it's very it sounds shallow and dumb sometimes but it's like no that's the reality of it like if you can get someone that's like a big like a local whatever influencer yeah post in about a place that's big it's big time shit like that genuinely does you're like more eyeballs on pinball more people going like oh this shit looks cool that's how it grows you know what else you can do you're in a small town you're in a small region there's only one pinball spot you know what small town papers or small town medium loves loves to do stories about pinball you know they still make them days check it out at this one local arcade this one pizza shop they're bringing back pinball they love running an article titled like local pinball wizard yes sets up shop at an ice cream parlor and who do you think feeds that baby birds those little those little bread crumbs it'd be you yeah you got to do the work that's the that is the number one thing about local journalism is the more of the work you can do for them the more things will go in your favor yes you know create prizes create other incentives for new players to try and achieve i do things all the time where people are at the bar and i can tell a new player from a mile away and i love they're my favorite type of player because i'm like oh they're here they made it here let's make sure that this experience is good that's what i always try to do i will say things like i see someone's playing monster bash was like hey if you hit frankenstein a bunch you'll start a multi-ball if you get a multi-ball i'm buying your next beer and they're like huh and i was like just hit that same shot and i'm like oh yeah you just gotta hit it and they're like and then they get the multi-ball i was like next beer's on me you know what i mean like do that type of shit yeah incentivize them to come to league you know this is another thing it's like if you start seeing them around they start playing the games more often or whatever you just go hey your first league season no dues yeah no deuce yeah a lot for you i really like it seeing places do that i know like pops will always do that there are tournaments and stuff where it's like oh if you bring a new player it'll be like a five dollar entry for a tournament if you bring up a new player like you and the new player get entry for free yes so do that shit that kind of stuff genuinely helps because it'll be like oh shit we both get in for free like yeah like hey dude if you come with me you know we both get in for free yes boom perfect excuse for like the other guy to be like okay even if i suck i'm like helping my buddy out yes exactly probably doesn't give a shit about the five bucks but like it it's just a good excuse everybody likes it makes everybody feel good grows the hobby the operators will get the five bucks back yes exactly well the the five bucks doesn't even go to them it just goes to the prize pool yeah right but make sure that there are also incentives for the low end of the skill pool not just for the good players winning cash at the end of a tournament i like to say raffles work really well as randomizers that's what we do at howdy where we have a grand prize raffle drawing for a pinball machine rental at your house you get a ticket every time you come to howdy partner the more you play the better chance you have but it has nothing to do with your skill level and i think more things need to do that we do that with their gator queens women's event i was like i'll give you guys prizes give away for the tournament entry, but I don't want there to be a cash buy-in for these, and I want you to give away a prize randomly. Because I'll give you the top prizes for earning it, but then I want a random prize just for people showing up. It's like no matter what, you got a chance at something. You got a chance at something. It's going to take you years to be the best player. You know what I mean? Usually most people just run tournaments It's a buy-in, everyone pays the same buy-in, and then the same people win the tournaments. And then it's just like the rich get richer. You're donating. It's an odd system. It's a bad system. So make it better. That's what we're talking about. But once the tree is planted, make sure to nurture it as it grows. I say this a lot, but don't allow shitty behavior in your scene. You're running tournaments, you're running leagues. Even if that player is a, quote, good player, don't tolerate bad sportsmanship. Yep, because it would alienate players that don't want to be around other players that thrash or yell when they lose their ball like a little baby. Yeah. So they either learn to behave or they aren't welcome to your events. Allowing bad behavior will hurt the growth of the community far more than you will ever know. You think you're afraid to kick somebody out, but really people just will stop showing up and they won't tell you. Exactly. They just won't show up. It's like you can have one. I mean, it's just one bad apple spoils the bunch type thing. And it's like even if that bad apple is like one of the best nationally ranked pinball players in the country, allowing him to be a little crybaby in your scene just makes the scene worse for everybody else. It is like actively dissuading new players from joining the scene. And that's the whole point of this whole thing is getting new players in. You're listening to this podcast. You're already into pinball. Yeah, we're already into pinball. it's about getting new blood in you know make sure to diversify as the scene grows and deputize others in the scene to help you out because it is exhausting to always be the organizer or the td and a healthy scene is not one person doing everything yeah it's good to have other points of view and stuff too yes it's like you do need to just get the workload off of you at some point or you'll get really burnt out absolutely and that's a good scene that's a good example like oh shit like we've actually grown the community because now there's people that are like hey I have Tuesdays off. Could I just run a league here? I know you run the once a month tournament. Could I just do that here? And you're like, yeah, you're going to run it. And they're like, yeah. And it was like, awesome. Right. Like, that's how you grow. That's how you know it's growing. Yep. It's a good sign. Like we said I think a league or a tournament is probably the best place to start It the easiest It has legitimacy It help you kind of learn the ropes but not everyone loves competitive pinball or maybe they don love the more common formats So there are plenty of others right Like maybe a golf event helps, maybe a women's only group. There's a lot of different formats that all vary greatly in competitiveness. There's even selfie leagues out there, but there are alternatives that also exist the pops guys from episode nine run lots of crazy formats in between their more traditional league seasons that totally changed the feel of that more tradition new england pinball league yep no that's not even ifpa anymore the northeast guy or the new england they lost that wow yeah but that is definitely like because it's like the new england pinball league runs like what we think of as like a normal league season right with like official rules that are probably still in accordance with ifpa even if the league for isn't officially and they do kind of their own goofy bullshit in the off season that people love and seems to have better turnout and is just generally it's clear that daniel and ty prefer it and they have a lot of people in their scene that get into pinball through playing through those events and then they kind of uh funnel into more competitive aspects later he's just casting a wider net right doing something else you know that grows the scene outside of just the sweaty turny dorks todd out in astoria from episode 72 he was an operator in a small town in a story he started with a once a month casual pinball hangout where he just put a couple of his games on free play and told the locals to just show up and hang out with him and play there was no structured tournament happening yeah i always like that i'm like i feel like that's something that you're like hey it's just an excuse to like get out here you need something to do you're like oh they got pinball on free play down at merry time and yeah it sounded like marcus from episode 80 runs a sunday school that sounds very similar and it's i can't i can't remember details if it's particularly like aimed at bringing like younger players in because i know he has a kid friendly spot i think it was like the goal obviously isn't a competition but his event is geared around getting people together on a sunday once a month and working on improving their individual skills like dead flips or post passes or any of that like catching a ball transferring it like aiming your shots that kind of thing learning some rules knowledge i didn't think about it just doing it for specific skills but that would actually be a lot of fun because people don't have access to games at home right when they're getting into this no no shit yeah but a lot of the time you see people do recommendations for like drills it's like oh yeah like you should just stuff a rag in the drain and sit there with the glass off and just keep trying post pass and you can get it down yeah or something and you're like you can't really do that on a location you can practice post pass or whatever but when you're paying for it it's kind of a shitty use it's different yeah and so you're like that's like something that I would love to do. You're like, hey, we're going to take the glass off and like you can come over and play this game. This one's on free play or whatever and just try post passes. Yep, exactly. There's different ways. I mean, I created our Howdy partner for similar reasons. I wanted something different. I wanted to grow the scene in a different way. I wanted new people, different people to it that weren't being their needs, weren't being met by the current tournament scene. Right. Exactly. You know, we talk about that all the way back in episode six. So we need to have a Howdy Partner refresh at some point, though, remind people that it's not supposed to be that serious, because I feel like Howdy Partner has like kind of developed its own like serious, not serious like culture now. I'm like the whole point was we're like this supposed to be just like fun and casual. I mean, it still is. But it's just like it's just like some people are like, I think the three player teams have an advantage that I go in there like, all right, guys, I ran the numbers. it doesn't even matter even the three-player team advantage thing but it's just in general i'm like people are over there people are like beating themselves up and they don't do good and shit and you're like dude it doesn't matter it literally doesn't matter yeah i just want to remind people i'm like it's just for fun all of this nothing i mean that's the big thing is that you got to remember that the ifpa stuff doesn't matter either none of it matters you can be the best in the world and it won't make you a happy person you'll still be crying about tights you know tilts being too tight and shit like that yep so it's like don't take any of it too seriously if you're not having fun you're doing it wrong right that's the whole point so okay now we went through this whole thing but what if there are literally no pins around you alex like you're like hey there's not even one spot well okay so first of all if someone's listening to this podcast and there's no pins around them they probably have pins of their own and if there are literally no pins in your town or there's whatever one at one bar or something and you're listening to this podcast and you have pins of your own you really need to start focusing your like time on getting those pins on location if you want to make pinball friends you need the pins out in the wild and like that's how you'll attract new like new people to the hobby yes it's a lot more likely that you find someone that happens to go to a bar in town that will end up having an interest then you'll you know successfully convert one of your already friends into pinball so it's like you really really should consider starting a hobby route yes and it's really just a couple games yeah literally like it doesn't take much like everyone's like how many do you need you're like whatever you have one is better than none two is better than one but it's like really like i i think like two is It's like, if you got two games, some of you are like, hell yeah, that's like a pinball spot now. Yeah. If I'm in a small town for work or something, I see a place with two games, I'm going there regardless. You know, like if I have to travel for work and that's the option, it's like, oh, you can go to like a nice restaurant, works pay and whatever. But like you could go to like a shithole bar, but it's got two pinball machines. 100% bar every single time. Yeah. It's not even like a thought. And so you're like two pins is like an attraction. And you know what? You know, this isn't a perfect world. it's going to take some time but you got to befriend i i just think that you know mostly games go to the home market so how do you motherfuckers have games they go there's nothing around me like i mean but there could be yeah and if you're worried and it's like around alex could cede his own spot right now i moved to a small town i like you said 100 i mean i'm trying to in southwest but it's just it's a saturated market here in portland it is southwest i still think is underserved so i would love to put some more games out in this neighborhood but it's tough to find an end sometimes here that being said i would highly recommend it for people i know a lot of the time we're always telling people like oh you should you should put games out and then we're also telling people like routing games is a lot of work and like cut your operator slack and stuff and both of those things i think are true and the one thing i will say is routing games is not much work speaking from experience when i had games out in the past routing games is not much work if not many people are playing your games yes so if you're starting a scene it's really an easy you really easy ramp up it isn't it's a natural ramp up if you're starting the scene because it's like you're gonna start and you're gonna be like oh my game's making like you know it's getting 20 bucks a week or something and yeah shit that might be pretty good depending on how you know where you start but you're like the game is making you're like okay then that probably means it's not really like you're not putting not much time into it so like don't worry about it you're gonna spend you know if you're getting 20 bucks a week out of game you're gonna spend more time cleaning the glass than fixing the game or anything yes exactly and so you're like don't just don't worry about it so much when you're starting now it can get away from you and just use it as an excuse to be like hey you bought the game you were gonna play it at your house just choose a location that's close to your house yes so that you can go to it at any time and then those games that you were gonna like you bought king kong or whatever you bought the new star wars game or whatever it is And instead of just playing it at your house, just go to the bar. You have the keys. You can play it as much as you want there. You can meet other people around you. You can get other people excited about playing the game, all that kind of stuff. Like you could play your game at a bar in a local business and grow the scene. Way more than standing at home at your house by yourself. Yeah. And it doesn't always, we always use bars because it's just the classic easy example. But there's a lot of places that games make a lot of sense that are a natural fit with like, you know, gaming stores. We were seeing more of random axe throwing places, which are frustratingly more common than like our pinball spots. Yeah. You're like, who the fuck is going axe throwing enough for this like place to justify rent on a warehouse? But like they can't put in. It's like, but in every axe throwing spot should probably have space for like pinball machines. So you're like shit like that. You're like, yeah, you just kind of have to think you it's it's not there's not a one size fits all solution for this. Like we always talk about. But it's like get creative. If it's a small community, that's usually an advantage for you because I bet you already know business owners that would be open to the idea. If you're living in a town of 10,000 people in the Midwest or something, I bet you have like a family friend that owns a place that you could put games. My dream spot is I always want the local auto mechanic shop when you go to get your tires on your car, get your oil changed or whatever, or a brake job. Why the fuck is there not pinball machines in that fucking waiting room, dude? like you put a pinball sheet or two in there let's go dude they really there's so many spots like that the only problem with that shit is it's like the shop might not want people just hanging out there all the time sure it depends on how much space they have and what kind of shop and what the owners are into and stuff there's a lot of solutions like there's a lot of things you can do though yeah there's a lot of stuff you can do man there's a lot of laundromats that i think would be like 100 open to you putting four games in there and like running tournaments because they'll be like, it's just going to be more foot traffic at the laundromat. Yeah. People bring a bag of laundry to do. Yeah. Like, and you give them a split. So it's not, they're excited. Businesses usually like money. So if you can figure out a way to convince a business that you're going to make money for them, that's a good spot. You know, we wanted to do this episode about growing community. Want to hear more about successes or failures or roadblocks you've had in your local community or things you've tried. You can reach out to us on our discord. Like we said, We love to talk about the stuff each and every day in there with other listeners of the show. We have plenty of other operators in there already. We love to talk about pinball and location and growing a scene. It's at the forefront of everything we do. It's why we even do this podcast at all, like I said. So, you know, this is resolution time. I want to challenge all of you listening. Use your passion for pinball for good and try to convert as many new players as you can. It all starts with a simple text. you have your phone in your hand go hey do you want to go out and play some pinball with me that's all it takes that's how it all starts find your friends manipulate them into playing pinball with you some of them might like it they might have other friends they trick their normies into playing pinball that's how this whole thing works how it works it spirals want to thank you for listening to another episode of the show until next time go out play some pinball on location try to convert some friends into playing pinball with you grow your local scene and until next time good luck don't suck you just call on me brother when you need a hand we all need somebody to lean on I just might have a problem that you'll understand We all need somebody to lean on Lean on me When you're not strong And I'll be your friend I'll help you carry on for it won't be long till I'm gonna need somebody to lean on