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We Are Pinball #36 "Potter Pre-Game show!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 22m·analyzed·Jun 4, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Don backtracks on Harry Potter CE purchase after disappointing cabinet artwork reveal; discusses game design philosophy.

Summary

Don and Genghis from We Are Pinball discuss their initial excitement and subsequent disappointment with the Harry Potter pinball machine cabinet artwork revealed by Jersey Jack Pinball. Don was enthusiastic about purchasing a Collector's Edition but became disenchanted after seeing the cabinet art, which he felt resembled children's book illustrations rather than movie-quality artwork worthy of a $15,000 premium game. They explore design philosophy, manufacturing complexity, and anticipate the full playfield reveal.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball paid approximately $5 million for the Harry Potter license

    medium confidence · Don states 'if J.J.P. rumored to pay like $5 million for the theme' and later references 'they used five million for the license'

  • Don was planning to purchase a Collector's Edition but changed his mind after seeing the cabinet artwork

    high confidence · Direct statements from Don about shifting from 'all in' to 'all completely miss me' after the teaser video

  • The cabinet artwork was created by Mina Lima, artists who worked on book illustrations and film set design

    medium confidence · Genghis states: 'it's me and Aleema. It's like the two artists that have a lot to do with the Harry Potter stuff. Like they've done illustrations and things, but they also did help with the set design for the films'

  • Don estimates Harry Potter CE pre-orders could reach 3,000-5,000 units based on unlimited production model

    low confidence · Don speculates 'I think we're three, four, 5,000 CEs'

  • The arcade and collector's editions will have identical playfields

    high confidence · Don states: 'the collector's edition and the arcade version has got the same play field same'

  • Pinball Brothers will release Predator pinball potentially on the same day as Harry Potter's full reveal (Thursday)

    medium confidence · Genghis asks: 'are we going to get in a situation where, like, on Thursday Harry Potter's released and also Predator's released that same day?'

  • Pinball Brothers approached Don about collaborating with content creators on future game design

    high confidence · Genghis describes reaching out proposal: 'it could be so awesome on the next project to have three or four guys like me in a room like me donnie you know persons like us in a room on the next project'

  • Eric Minier designed Pirates of the Caribbean pinball

    high confidence · Genghis confirms: 'Who did Pirates? It was the same guy. Eric Menier, yea'

Notable Quotes

  • “I was just drained. And I was like, I went from being all in to all completely miss me. All really quickly with just that one teaser video. My God, what are they doing to me?”

    Don @ Early in episode — Captures Don's emotional shift from enthusiasm to disappointment regarding the cabinet art reveal

  • “It looks like it's drawn out of crayon it looks like i walked into a pediatrician's office it looks like i'm at a pediatric dentist it looks like i'm at the book nook of the library for the children it looks like the magic school bus threw up all over this”

    Don @ Early discussion — Vivid description of Don's reaction to the Collector's Edition cabinet artwork

  • “I'm going to get the arcade edition for $7,500 in six weeks with 50 plays on it once the next new thing comes out and everybody starts turning these things over.”

    Don @ Mid-episode — Articulates Don's secondary market strategy for obtaining the game without premium pricing

  • “It's $15,000, man. It's so much money. And it's double up for us out of the U.S., you know?”

    Genghis @ Mid-episode — Highlights pricing concerns for international customers, particularly from Denmark

  • “I think all three versions of the game are going to do really well. And when I look back historically about every single one of Jersey Jack's games, particularly ones that sold incredibly well, they are incredibly available at any point.”

    Genghis @ Mid-episode — Provides reassurance that CE urgency is overblown due to historical availability of JJP games

  • “When you're playing a game strictly for high score, you ignore some other thematic elements. And I just want to treat it like a theme park and just go play in there”

    Don @ Latter half — Articulates design philosophy difference between competitive players and collector-enthusiasts

  • “They reached out like this, and I was like, respect. Because until today, you know, pinball companies were like, maybe I don't know you, you don't know me, like, you know.”

Entities

Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companyHarry PottergameDonpersonGenghispersonEric MinierpersonMina LimapersonJeffpersonPinball Brothers

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Mad Pinball promotional partnership with We Are Pinball podcast; WAP code discount on Harry Potter pre-orders with limited edition merchandise

    high · 'What should buyers do when they order this game from Mad Pinball? They should use code WAP...and you will get...complimentary shipping...a limited edition version of the WAP shirt'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Pinball Brothers' Predator launch potentially timed to compete directly with Harry Potter reveal; strategic risk given market focus on Harry Potter

    medium · Genghis: 'on Thursday Harry Potter's released and also Predator's released that same day?...How ballsy is that?'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Harry Potter CE cabinet artwork using book illustrations rather than movie assets perceived as mismatched to $15,000 price point and thematic expectations

    high · Don's extensive criticism of cabinet art: 'it looks like it's drawn out of crayon...looks like i walked into a pediatrician's office'; artwork inconsistent with movie-licensed IP value

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Tension between manufacturing complexity/volume requirements and collector expectations for premium tier differentiation

    high · Discussion of production volume (5,000-8,000 units) necessitating simplified mechanisms; Godfather vs Pirates of the Caribbean complexity comparison

  • ?

    event_signal: Harry Potter full playfield reveal scheduled for Thursday; teaser strategy releasing cabinet artwork incrementally before full game reveal

    high · Multiple references to Thursday reveal date and speculation about remaining teaser content (topper reveal, full playfield)

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.248

0:00
oh man the drop is coming up on WAP episode number 36 here with Donna Jeng is casual hanging out I'm gonna fade out for this techno drop here and then we're gonna come back with a bomb episode where we're gonna talk about all that we know about this new game let's go What do you know about Harry Potter, Genghis? You're a wizard, Harry Potter.
0:45
What I know about it? Well, I watched the first movie like 25 years ago, and it was a kid that had a scar on his forehead. Has it been that long? to find his parents or something. And then he moved through a wall and came into a castle, and that's about it. And then I saw a movie like movie 12 or something. It was dark in the night, very, very dark. That's my knowledge of Harry Potter. How about your knowledge? Did you see what you said there? You said, I saw this movie, and then I saw this movie. That's all I know about it, and that's where I am at too. When these books came out, right, they were popular. but there's a ton of young adult novels and some are great and most of them are crap or, and they all might all be great, but they don't get to the level of popularity like Harry Potter did. So I was watching all the moms and the kids in the lines of the libraries and the bookstores on the news. And they had like the, or the cartoon drawings of Harry Potter. And it looked like, you know, the magic school bus or something dumb. And I'm like, I'm not going to get into this kid stuff, whatever. Um, and then the movies came out and I'm like, I'll try it. And man, Warner brothers brought it, dude, the set design, the music, John Williams, Hagrid, like I was in at that point. And then I've watched all the movies except for like the very last half of the last one. But I've been to like three of the theme parks around the world, you know, in Florida and California and Osaka. Like I dig the rides. I love the universe that was created. I like walking around Nocturne Alley and Diagon Alley, Universe Studios Florida. Like I dig it, man. I can't wait to go to Ministry of Magic over at the new Epic Universe Park. Like I love that universe. and I was like, perfect, man. Look at Jersey Jack. Took a great theme park theme like Avatar. Now they're going with another great one like Harry Potter. Like, yes, this is what we want. And yesterday in the morning, I was like, you know what? I'm a weak man. This hype is getting to me. I'm running around looking for things to sell. I'm like, you know what? We're going to do collector's edition Harry Potter. I want to be in on that train. Yes, I may lose money. Yes, it's a lot of money, but like I love that movie universe. That's what I want. and then we get the reveal of the cabinet and it's just art from one of the books it looks like it's drawn out of crayon it looks like i walked into a pediatrician's office it looks like i'm at a pediatric dentist it looks like i'm at the book nook of the library for the children it looks like the magic school bus threw up all over this and i'm like this this is like my fifteen thousand dollar game with a movie franchise that i'm super into i i know the play field layout's gonna have all the movie art and the characters and this is the cabinet that they give me for 15 grand but don you don't see the art when the game is in a lineup for 15 000 i'm making this a focal point of my game room i'm gonna put spotlights on it i want everybody to see this thing and they're gonna walk in and be like you know did the daycare close where did you get that art that's on the side of that oh all the enthusiasm was just like sucked away from me like a dementor was giving me give me head and taken out all of my Harry Potter essence, man. I was just drained. And I was like, I went from being all in to all completely miss me. All really quickly with just that one teaser video. My God, what are they doing to me? What are they doing? Dear listener, dear listener, let me tell you what happened. So, I mean, Harry Potter has come up in two days, right? And it's just, Donnie, it's not cool to make video now because Because two days from now, not video, podcast. Two days from now, we have to do another podcast, right? Big deal. This is dumb to do it right now. But, dear listener, you know what happened? Yesterday, Don calls me. And he was in Europe. And he just came back. He hits me up. And this Donnie, he just hit it up. And I'm like, Donnie, what's going on? How are you, my friend? How was the trip? And he's like, did you see the artwork? Nothing like high back. Nothing. I can talk to you for two days, nothing. Did you see the artwork? And I'm like, yeah, I did. And he was like, man, I was talking with Jeff from Mad Pinball. I tried to trade some games, get this CE. I want this game, and I want a good deal. And then all of a sudden I saw this, and now I don't want the CE. And I was like, what's going on? So, Don, I actually said to you, go ahead and buy the arcade edition for $10,000, and then you said a very interesting thing back to me. What was that? I forget. Oh, wait. I believe what I had said was, like, I'm not going to get the arcade edition for $10,000 new in box. I'm going to get the arcade edition for $7,500 in six weeks with 50 plays on it once the next new thing comes out and everybody starts turning these things over.

Genghis @ Latter half — Highlights Pinball Brothers' willingness to collaborate with content creators as differentiation from larger manufacturers

company
Predatorgame
Avatargame
Godfathergame
Pirates of the Caribbeangame
Mad Pinballcompany
We Are Pinball (WAP)organization
Dunegame
Guns N' Rosesgame
Wonkagame
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Creative decision to use Mina Lima book artwork rather than movie assets on premium cabinet raises questions about licensing strategy and cost optimization

    medium · Don's criticism: 'if they just use this kind of artwork and not artwork from the movies, then why don't just, you know, pay much, much cheaper license'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball Brothers actively recruiting We Are Pinball podcast hosts (Don and Genghis) for future collaborative design process

    high · Genghis describes outreach: 'it could be so awesome on the next project to have three or four guys like me in a room...brainstorm and throw out all the ideas'

  • $

    market_signal: Strong sentiment that $15,000 CE pricing is difficult to justify, particularly for international buyers; Don's strategy to wait 6 weeks for used Arcade edition at $7,500

    high · Don's articulated secondary market strategy and international pricing concerns from Genghis

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinball Brothers' next project potentially Conan the Barbarian based on designer Daniel's passion level

    low · Genghis: 'he's getting goosebumps when I'm talking about Conan. So maybe, maybe next game is Conan. I don't know.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Don's enthusiasm collapsed rapidly from committed CE purchase to reconsidering Arcade edition after single teaser video

    high · 'I went from being all in to all completely miss me. All really quickly with just that one teaser video'

    • 5:35
    Exactly, and then you said you will just powder coat the armor, and you have a beautiful game. And they're doing this thing again with the collector's edition armor where it doesn't come down and cover the button. So you're going to get hand grease all over the art that's down there. I know it's rad, Cal. Cover those buttons. But I'm designing armor now with my collaborator, and we're coming up with cool designs that sweep down and give you that good powder coat feel around the buttons. That mischief managed written on the side, and I solemnly swear I'm up to no good. I love that and I can make that myself for $150. So like when I'm getting the collector's edition, I want that exclusive art. I wanted to have something that looked like Hogwarts Castle at dusk with like candles and Dementors and Hagrid on his motorbike and like shit's not good. Voldemort's creeping around. It's like do or die time. The castle's crumbling. Like let's go to work on this game. And instead I get a freaking preschool, man.
    6:32
    Is it just me? When I think about Harry Potter, when I see lunchboxes, it's dark blue and black, and it says HP. It's very, very dark colors, pencils, whatever, bedsheets, very dark blue and black, and it says Harry Potter. This artwork on the collector's edition, it looks like – you're saying it's from the books. Donnie, who reads books? I mean, I don't know, but it just feels so different for me. It's me and Aleema. It's like the two artists that have a lot to do with the Harry Potter stuff. Like they've done illustrations and things, but they also did help with the set design for the films. And it's like I get that you want to use art from the actual artists, but I wanted that movie artist. Or at least take pictures of a theme park queue. Put Gringotts Bank in here, man. Like those queues for those rides that you wait through, they're heavily themed. You're walking through the pages of the book, recreated just like the films. And like that's the visual environment I want to be in for a $15,000 game.
    7:38
    I'm just thinking if J.J.P. rumored to pay like $5 million for the theme, right? If they just use this kind of artwork and not artwork from the movies, then why don't just, you know, pay much, much cheaper license and have the book version, you know? it will cost nothing compared to the movie license just get the movie the wizard art that they've released it'll be the same one for the arcade and the wizard edition which is their mid-level the wizard edition will have radcals the other one will have the decals and it looks fine like it's movie art it's got that photoshop quality to it where it's just kind of likenesses of the actors all that is fine all you had to do was take that and add some glitter to it maybe some storm clouds and put like Hogwarts Castle on one side and the cast of characters on the other or something.
    8:32
    And that would have been fine. Or you can have an option of getting this collector's version with this art or a collector's version with all the villains on it or something. And the armor can have Deathly Hallows in it. Maybe the licensor wouldn't allow that or whatever. But just such a strange thing to go with.
    8:48
    Let's take something that nobody associated with the theme park rides or the movies even recognizes. Somebody said this looks like it's the Little Mermaid or something. I mean, that was yesterday. And today, like... 30 minutes ago, yeah. They just dropped another one. They just released the left side of the cabinet. It does look better.
    9:09
    It looks like there are some gaming cards or something. I cannot... Again, I don't know the books, know nothing. Donnie, I just want to ask you. Back then when Harry Potter came out, here in Denmark, we had two camps. We were like, we were into Lord of the Rings, go home with your children's Harry Potter movies, camps, and Lord of the Rings camps. So we had this kind of stuff going on over here because, like, Harry Potter came, and, like, six months later we got Lord of the Rings or something like that. Yeah. So we had, you know, two camps. Was it like that in the U.S., or how was it for you over there? It was just another, like, you know, there was a lot of hype around this movie because the books were so popular and, like, there was a lot of interviews with the actors and everything, and we saw the sets in real life, and it was like the biggest thing ever. I don't think it really separated people into camps at all. If you liked fantasy adventure, you liked both of these things. We wouldn't have saw Harry Potter. We wouldn't have seen Lord of the Rings. Us over here, it was like, no, it was Lord of the Rings. The other thing was just kid stuff. So I never really – I watched the first one, and I liked the music. It's not that John Williams music. Yeah, you don't get that in the books. The other side of the cabinet makes a little bit more sense, but it still looks like this art is just as good as Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. We're always like, oh, I guess they're letters, but they look like cards. There's a sorting hat. It is cards, right? Yeah, they're the cards that is flying to your house. It's your invitation to Hogwarts. Oh, that's the first movie. Letters came into the front door. Yeah, okay. I remember. It was 25 years ago. So did you see the back glass? It had the owl at the backside. Hedgewig and the Angry Inch. Yeah, that's absolutely. Yeah, that's what's on there.
    10:59
    And did you see the topper? Yeah, you can see a corner of the topper. It looks like Hogwarts Castle, which of course it does. That was the one thing that was missing. There's no Hogwarts Castle on the play field. You know, I wanted, I need something. There's some LEDs in it, but it looks like from what you can see, just kind of a flat plastic of the castle. Hopefully there's more up there. I mean, if I was designing a Harry Potter game, I would throw a projector up there and have magical projection effects thrown all over the game room. I think that, you know, it worked great with Elton John. It works really nice with Elton John. You know, and the whole point of getting this high-level edition is so you have exclusive art that looks badass. You get the exclusive armor, and it's the only one that has, like, the awesome topper. And it's got to have some kind of motion up there. I mean, Godfather had a great topper. Not a great game, but great topper. I love the topper for Avatar. Elton John had a lot going on up there, like it or not. I like it. Say it's gaudy. I like it, yeah. Yeah, so, like, if this is just, like, going back to flat plastic, oh, God. But very interesting. You're saying you want something exclusive on the CE version. Yeah, but, Donnie, the CE version as a game is not exclusive. No. And how is this going to look when you have the movie characters on the play field and then the cabinet looks like a three-year-old's bedroom. Like, ah, I don't know, man. Like I want the whole package. I want to be wrapped up in – I don't want any part of this thing where I'm like, yeah, maybe I can learn to love it. Like, ah, I was just frustrated. Maybe they have multiple designers. Maybe another person does the artwork on the play field just like with Kong. Yeah, I don't know. We'll find out on Thursday. And when we see the full breakdown, I want to see multiple ramps. I want to see moving bookcases. I want to see changing things. I want this to be like this is what the next level of pinball is and not just like we remix Godfather. It's $15,000, man. It's so much money. So much money. And it's double up for us out of the U.S., you know? So, yeah. So that means that you're not – for months now I have been saying you will get the CE, but right now you're saying you will not get the CE. Yesterday morning you were going to be right too, and I was like, damn it, they got me.
    13:19
    I'm like – I'm trying to justify it, you know, like I'll trade this game and this game and I'll sell this thing and I'll be able to cobble it together and then we'll be there day one. But no, dude, and I saw the art and I just didn't love it. I just don't want to – I don't want to look at that thing in my house. It sucks, man. What the heck? So when you try to make this, give this game, that game, do a deal with Jeff from Mad Pinball, how was he? Is he okay taking used games and giving the new game? How is he? How is he doing deals with? He was open to it. I'm like, look, I got an Avatar CE, which I'm still not done playing with. But honestly, I feel like I'd rather have Harry Potter in its place. I was going to trade him that. I was offering him a Gottlieb Wipeout as well. I'd probably sprinkle some money on top of that too, just to sweeten the deal. and I would probably hand-deliver the games.
    14:07
    But then I saw the art, and I'm like, let's just wait till the reveal. Let's wait for the full reveal now. Yeah. And talk about Jeff from Matt Pinball. If people want to buy this beautiful game. Jeff at MattPinball.com. Whatever trim level you want. I think now, like, arcade edition is probably the way to go. He has the list going on in there. You can already go in and buy it from him. Yeah, I'm not bagging on this game at all. I think if you've got an arcade with a reasonable attendance of the general public, arcade edition, throw it on the floor and start earning some money. And then, you know, make six grand off it and sell it for six, and then you've made some cash at least. What should buyers do when they order this game from Mad Pinball? They should use code WAP, W-A-P, or WAP Pinball or whatever. And you will get, in addition to, I believe, complimentary shipping, we'll send you a T-shirt as well. A limited edition version of the WAP shirt that also has the Mad Pinball logo on it as well. And our eternal gratitude. You're buying it from somebody anyway. Why not get a free t-shirt is all I'm saying. Exactly. And supporting this podcast show also, right? So we love Jeff and Mad Pinball. And we're a couple days from the reveal. Buy from Mad Pinball. Use the code WAP. We love you. Give them an email and be like, hey, just put me on your list and I'll let you know up or down. No commitment required when the game's released. then at least if you know, hey, I got to get in on one of these, you change your mind, you fall for the hype, you already got a space in line. And we had Jeff in here, and he goes through this list. Who came on the list first will get, you know, his game first. Now, what I didn't tell him is take me off the list. I'm still on the list for one of these. You're on the list, honey. So there's a chance, but, like, you know, I knew there was going to be some disappointment, right? I knew not everything I wanted to see in this game was going to make it in the game. But I thought at least, you know, they're going with the movie. They got the movie assets. That's what they had to pay $5 million for. I want to see all the characters on the machine. And the artwork on the cabinet, left side and back glass, has no characters at all. It's got the sorting hat and the owl.
    16:14
    But can I say something? I want to say something. Jersey Jack, when they come up with games, codes are really, really well done. Okay, we don't have Final Wizard modes, but code-wise, when you get the game, awesome, right? Right. Jersey Jack games are awesome. They're so beautiful. I love them. Yeah. This is Eric Minier. I mean, he has got so much passion. When he designs, he really includes theme integration in a very, very high level, right? On top of that, it's Harry Potter. You like the movies. I do. You like the theme park. It has got Harry Potter music also. So, still be on that list. When you see the play field, maybe you will fall in love with this. Just give it a chance. That's all I'm saying. Just give it a chance. I know this game is in no danger of poor sales. I think all three versions of the game are going to do really well. And when I look back historically about every single one of Jersey Jack's games, particularly ones that sold incredibly well, they are incredibly available at any point. Yeah, I mean, all of their games are available There's a need to rush in If you want to get a collector's edition soon That's where the urgency is Their other trims, as we've seen They're going to be available They're going to be everywhere They're going to have 50 plays on them And you're going to be able to say Hey, let's do a deal down the road If it's a great game that I have to have at home Do you like this unlimited CE model? I love it for the consumer.
    17:55
    But that consumer will lose a lot of money when that consumer will sell his or her thing. Here's what you can guarantee. You can guarantee that absolutely all of the demand, 100%, will be filled if they do this time-limited CE thing. Because everybody that is there with money that wants one will be able to get one. No chance of them selling out if you're within that period of time. For the manufacturer, it means they're not leaving any money on the table. They're not going to sell 500 and there's 600 people that wanted it. Now, they may only sell 300. They may whatever. Who knows? 5,000. But as far as like if I wanted one and I could go and get one, I like that, and the demand will essentially be satiated. And now if demand increases later on, then these things could potentially gain more value or not. But I like this idea. I think they will sell a lot of CEs. Yeah. Like a lot, a lot of, I think we're three, four, 5,000 CEs. I'm up there. You know, if they sell 5,000 CEs, I'm in a great position as somebody that can, that doesn't need to have it right now. You know, if I was enthralled with the art, I want to unbox that thing. I was going to dress up as Hagrid. We were going to do like a whole thing. I was going to theme the gym to the dark forest and go all out. Nice. But then I don't want to do all that work and then open this box that looks like a child's dresser.
    19:23
    Donnie, I understand what you're saying. I'm feeling you because you are a fan of this theme. I was ready to move heaven and earth to bring that thing into the gym. And now it's like, ah.
    19:40
    What's the opposite of Viagra? That's what happened. still just give it a chance okay two days from now we will see the game other than that they are starting to tease us don't you like it i'll no i want to hear what what you think i'm fine with teases now that we have a date you know now that they announced thursday it's going to be out then monday we got a teaser one side of the cabinet today we got a teaser the other side of the cabinet um i don't know what they tease tomorrow the topper maybe and then give us the full reveal of the game field on release day. I think that's fine. I know I'm not just... Don't buy nothing six months ago. That was a little much. Now that I'm seeing this, am I okay to spend my money on other things?
    20:25
    Has the embargo lifted? Because he said, don't spend one dollar in your pocket until you see our game. I think we've seen it. We've seen the cabinet. Can I go buy Predator now or do I still have to wait? I mean our conversation yesterday it was 41 minutes I know it because at 41 minutes you had some family member that came over and said leave Cengiz alone You need to use your time with the family now. They told me I was worse than a teenage girl. They're like, we're over there gossiping on the phone about everything that's going on. Leave this guy from Denmark right now, okay? So you were like, okay, I'm not interested in this, and now I'm seriously considering Predator pinball. Yeah. You were like all over the place yesterday. You were just burning hot. I was there to pick up my date, and they opened the door, and her outfit is just totally garbage. And I'm like turning, and I'm like, but your cousin, though, over by the pool. She's got a Corona. She's a little bit older. Like, let's go, man. She's got a car. I love it. All eyes on Predator, man. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I can tell you, officially we got the Predator heat cam video yesterday, right? I just saw it, yeah. Yeah, you just saw that. So you could see Predator on the back glass, standing there, real cool. Tomorrow, you will get another video, but it will not be heat cam. So tomorrow, you will see with normal camera. Now, are we going to get in a situation where, like, on Thursday Harry Potter's released and also Predator's released that same day?
    22:07
    That's Jenkins' I Can't Say. How ballsy is that? Like, let me just go head-to-head with Harry Potter. And if they launch the CE with art that looks like it was pulled off of a school bus, and then all of a sudden you're like, okay, you can get that or we got Predator over here with like muscle-bound strapping guys and like guns and aliens and jungle and heat cam and blah, blah, blah.
    22:33
    You know what? I mean, let me be strident here, okay? Please, be peak strident. That's what I want. When we got the news of Kong, Elwing game, sellout instant, it didn't. And some of the reason was because Harry Potter is on the way. People, collectors are like, this is huge. We need to see what JGP has to offer before we make the Kong purchase. And now Pinball Brothers are releasing their game about the same time, right? And it's just not good. People will see what's going on with Harry Potter. So my advice were like, wait, let everybody see Harry Potter first and then make their mind. Because when you compare those two companies, it's not a fair comparison because one is very – how old is Jersey? It's over 10 years old, right? Right. Yeah. And they have made over double amount of games and they have huge factory and blah, blah, blah. And that's not the case with Pinball Brothers. But this time, Pinball Brothers has got so much passion in this project. I talk with them daily and talk with Daniel from media and they're passionate. We're talking about Conan the Barbarian and he's getting goosebumps when I'm talking about Conan. So maybe, maybe next game is Conan. I don't know. But they were like, oh. But one very cool thing that they told me was, I got this on writing also. They said, man, the passion you have got there when we talk with you, when you make your promotion videos, whatever. they said it could be so awesome on the next project to have three or four guys like me in a room like me donnie you know persons like us in a room on the next project and just brainstorm and throw out all the ideas you know build something really solid with all this love and pinball passion and then put it in the game. They reached out like this, and I was like, respect. Because until today, you know, pinball companies were like, maybe I don't know you, you don't know me, like, you know. But this, I mean, with all this love and passion, wouldn't you sit in a room with me and two other guys like us and, you know, sit with these companies and come up with ideas? Isn't it easier if you're building something you know people want? You know, wouldn't it be so much easier? You're like, guys, what do you want to get? Oh, we would like this, this, and this. Okay, we'll go build that. Rather than go off into a cave in secret, create something, and then be like, I hope people like it, and just dropkick it out there. Like, yeah, absolutely. I want fun shots. I want cool mechanisms. I want a play field that I can explore as I'm playing. I want code that doesn't suck. But, you know, just bring me that. Don't bring me just like a left ramp, a right ramp, the same bottom I've seen everywhere, and then just spray paint the theme on it without any kind of good integration.
    25:59
    And most of pinball media creators, most of us play a lot of pinball almost every day. And we have a lot of experience, a lot of ideas, and a lot of love and passion. I mean, when they reached out like this, I was like, okay, pinball brothers, I have next level of respect now. I mean, it's just so cool. Well, and they seem to be pretty good about going after a tournament, players and saying, okay, help us design a game. But like a tournament player looks at a game completely different than, you know, like a regular pinball enthusiast, you know, the people that buy these games, you know. I know a lot of tournament players and a lot of them don't buy pinball machines. They go out on locations and play pinball. Yeah. Most of the guys I know, they go out on locations. They don't, they're not collectors like you and I. Yeah, yeah. They, you know, they like games that they can, you know, find a way to exploit so they can then, you know, get high scores and things. But, you know, when you're playing a game strictly for high score, you ignore some other thematic elements. And I just want to treat it like a theme park and just go play in there, you know. And if I get a high score, I'm excited. But I'm really more excited about activating that multi-ball, making that building fall down, activating the ball lock and getting all the balls in there. You know, if I happen to stack a multiplier with a mode, you know, that's great for me. But really, I just want to make all the balls topple out of the thing and make the thing happen, you know. So give me things to do in there that I can cause to happen. That's what I care about. Well, that's why people like you are keen to buy the Collector's Edition version because you like all the toys. I want them all. You don't buy the Pro. You want everything in your game, right? I want the complete game. I want all the things. The thing is now you have seen the art of Harry Potter. You don't like it that much. and you also know that the collector's edition and the arcade version has got the same play field same so in your mind you're like why should i pay now you said you will buy it two months later for 7 500 why should you go ahead and pay 15 000 for the collector's edition so i know what you mean i know but uh they also need to make some money donnie because they used five million for the four or five million for the license i think this game cannot be jam-packed they need to make five to eight thousand of these games and if they're jam-packed they will need to produce these games for the next two years donnie yeah and that was the other thing i heard you know if this is a game that they're looking at making thousands and thousands and thousands of they're gonna they're gonna look for ways to make them easy to manufacture and one of the ways you can do that is by reducing the complexity that's there you know so we're not going to see a lower play field obviously um you know there may be some upper tiered play fields like we saw on guns and roses but those just sit on stilts right you know what they're not going to want is some kind of intricate mechanism that's going to require a lot of you know fine tuning once you get the game to get it working properly you know they're going to want something that just open out of the box play it hardly anything's gonna go wrong with it maybe some loose plastics will fall off but like that's it so i'm not looking that this is probably going to be the most complex game with like apron locks and all kinds of stuff like that maybe i'm wrong i want to be wrong but we're gonna see well from day one i was like i was like this game is gonna sell because of the theme and because of the music so it really i mean he could do eric minier could do what he did with um godfather and have you know 29 path diverter stuff, and Godfather is pretty empty if you look at it. So you could do something like this and have Hogwarts at the back portion of the play field and have the music and art on the play field, and it would sell. It would sell, Donnie. People should see how you look right now, but you know what I mean. It would still sell because it's a strong, strong theme. Diverters are a very simple mechanism. You know, they're one coil, and they can change the gameplay, you know, turn an orbit into a 180 ramp, turn it into a ball lock. You know, we're seeing a lot of that on games like Dune that utilize a lot of diverters to change ball paths. Godfather was just like one big cancerous nest of diverters with balls going everywhere.
    30:19
    Godfather was such a pretty game, and the sound was really good, and I loved the animations. I didn't care for the theme at all, so it didn't bring me into it. And I think that's why we're seeing them sell cheaper. But if they can – I want like that level of fit, finish, and complexity but applied to Harry Potter and just a little bit more. I want more like Pirates of the Caribbean and less like Guns N' Roses, less like Godfather.
    30:45
    Who did Pirates? It was the same guy. Eric Menier, yeah. As you can see, I'm looking at our audience, right? So I need to put this in. So we can see the people that are listening to our show, like 17 to 35-year-old, it's almost 5% or something. The cool part is people, audience of this show, 45 to 59, it's 70% of our listeners.
    31:13
    Okay. 60 and over, it's 4%. So people over 60 don't listen to this show. or maybe not many other podcast shows, but the sweet spot, 45 to 59, right? Today's analytics, as you can see here.
    31:33
    So if we say 50, how many 50-year-old guys, men in this hobby, I can tell you how many men, 91.4% men are listening. So I'm just saying men. How many 50-year-old men are into Harry Potter? Well, I do know a lot of people that are into Harry Potter in the way that I am, which is we like going to the theme parks. We like the interactivity. They don't buy $15,000 pinball machines. Well, I'm talking about like 50-year-old pinball owners that also go to these things, you know, go to Halloween Horror Nights and such. Spooky Pinball goes down to Halloween Horror Nights. So the people that are into Harry Potter that are in that age range that are buying pinball machines like the movies. They like the theme parks. and like that's, you know, they're not going home and reading, you know, Goblet of Fire for the 60th time. You know, they're not setting up with their Kindles going through, you know, the extended universe of Harry Potter. You know, it's the movies, it's the fun interaction, it's, you know, buying express passes so you get front line access, feeling like, you know, a rock star with the flex, walking around with a butter beer and then, you know, regular beer and like getting some chicken legs and like that's what I am, right? That's what I like. So, like, the fact that the collector's edition doesn't look like freaking Hogwarts Castle sitting there in your game room, I don't get it. I just want to ask you the same question. You're 45. I'm 45. Retro Ralph is 45. How many 45 to 50-year-old guys are into Predator?
    33:08
    Okay. Probably more. Every time I post anything about Predator, people are like, come on, do it, and all the stick around, everything, it just comes out, and people are crazy. No one is saying, no tropios, diesel, petroleum, oil, with Harry Potter, nothing, nothing. And it's like, you know, get to the top, and everything is just going on. Genghis, can you imagine if the roles were reversed and Harry Potter was coming out from Pinball Brothers right now and Jersey Jack had Predator and we're bringing that out with all their lights, like the freaking hype that would be surrounding a Predator collector's edition with a giant freaking monster on top? Oh, my God. Would you buy it for $15,000? Probably. Wow. You asked about price. I'm going to share something that I'm – Oh. I don't know if I'm allowed to share this. exclusive dude people have been saying why don't you just lock all this knowledge lock it down put it in your patreon and get a lot of new supporters get a lot of money exclusive exclusive exclusives no i'm not like that and i haven't even talked with don about this but no this is just this is people love and passion we don't care about all that stuff but i said make you know make maximum 300 limited versions and let them cost under 10k we have been talking and talking and these tariffs because of don's beautiful president these tariffs when pimple brothers buys parts from the u.s because the the the targets are not the old targets from alien they're updated they're new targets that's cool for you i love that yeah yeah yeah you like that But when they buy these parts from the U.S., there are tariffs on that. So with all this going on, they told me they cannot do it under $10,000.
    35:12
    Now, is this game coming fully accessorized with Topper 2, or are they doing the aftermarket accessory thing, or can you not say?
    35:20
    God damn it. Because, you know, if they're coming in at like 11.5, but they're doing the whole Alice's Adventures in Amsterdam treatment where there's topper, there's sculpts, there's everything in there, shooter rod, like you don't have to do nothing to it, invisiglass, shiny cabinet decals, under lighting in the armor, heat mode version, you know, lasers shooting all over your room. Like, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm interested. I can't wait. How much longer am I going to have to wait? I'm still not letting them up the hook on this because we have teaser every single day now, and we have no idea when this thing is coming out. I'm thinking, like, are they still waiting for licensor approval? Like, did they even get full licensing approval? No, no, no, no, no. Is there going to be a problem? There's no bullshit like that. My mind is wandering here because I don't have a date. There's no bullshit like that. I have been promoting for these guys, okay? One guy on Facebook wrote today. One guy, he wrote like, what's going on with pinball world? Every time I see these teasers, it makes me not want to buy pinball machines, blah, blah, blah. And I wrote, take it easy, buddy. This is what it is. If you don't like it, just block me and you're done with it. You don't have to see because pinball brothers have only – they have showed two things. That's it. I'm hyping the game up. That's because I am hyped. Donnie, I am hyped. I listened to your last show and you said like,
    36:53
    Cengiz is hyping this game and I hope that he's getting a lot of money. Let me just clear this out. I reached out to these guys. I wrote to them two times. And I wrote, I want nothing. Not a dime. Nothing. I want to promote this. I want to see what's going on. I want to be a part of this because this is a dream theme of mine. So how could they say no to that, Donnie? So all the tidbits you have seen to now and all the confirmations, because you thought this was everything.
    37:28
    People thought all of the stuff. For the last weeks, I have confirmed a lot of stuff. And with this move, they have started to sell these games. Because of my promotion, because people haven't seen anything. Well, wait, wait. These promotions, they're just – I heard that you're making so much money on this NDA that you have, right? What? Oh, I know what – let's – yeah. Yeah, this time I'm going to answer back on that. It's another podcast that we are talking about, right? Yeah, hang on. Let me put my seatbelt on. Okay, I'm buckled up. Let's go.
    38:09
    Wait, I just – yeah, we're going to end the show with that because I'm fed up with it, Donnie. I'm fed up with it. Do we have other questions with Predator before we jump over to that if you want? So, I mean, we can recap everything that's like publicly available now at least. Wait one second. So now they haven't announced a date that we're going to hear more. You, of course, can't say when that date is. Can you say that if – is there like a plan or are they still trying to figure that out? Like is there a plan for when we're going to get to see this game and it's just not announced yet? I have a copy of the complete plan with dates of everything. I know exactly this day the countdown will begin. Okay, I see. So everything is – and I was like because Jersey Jack should come up with this game a bit – a week ago or something. and then it came out something like it will come out in december september you know all these rumors it was delayed this and that and this so because of this all of a sudden they came up with yeah countdown thursday will come with the game and i talked with pinball brothers so do you want to change anything and they were like no everything's planned and you cannot change stuff you cannot say okay jersey jack has come with your game with this game then let's just release it monday you have licensor agreements you cannot just jump what you have agreed with your licensor you have to hold it so you know internet warriors they're writing on my videos they should release it right now it doesn't work like that it doesn't work like that then you have to go into disney and blah blah blah all that stuff you know i would say that it makes more sense to not release in front of Harry Potter, right? Like, if they released today, people would keep their money in their pockets until they see what Harry Potter was. Exactly! You get it! Once Potter is out there, then it would be like, okay, if you bought a Potter, you didn't, here's our game now. At least not, you know, people aren't keeping money in their pocket because they know Harry Potter's right around the corner. They at least will be able to make that decision. Harry Potter's on the way. Yeah. Of course, when Harry Potter comes out, a lot of pinball collectors' pockets will be emptied out. We know it, of course, and it's an expensive purchase.
    40:34
    But these themes are so different also. I see Harry Potter as a, you know, kid's thing. And I see the other game as a grown man's thing. Oh, that came out wrong. Yeah. Theme.
    40:49
    Okay, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Have you ever seen a grown man naked? So they're very different. And I don't know, man. I hope it goes well for both companies. I mean, the scope of these two games is totally different. I mean, there's going to be over 5,000 Harry Potters out there in the wilderness. It's going to be like Guns N' Roses 2.0 again. Yeah. Pinball Brothers game there might be 300 to 500 of them and that it So it more like a this is like a boutique title If you want to get one get in on one and then there may be occasionally one popping up on Pinside but it's not going to be like, I got 5,000 Harry Potter arcade editions all collecting dust, competing with each other. They're down to $3,700 now if you want to move one of them kind of situation.
    41:38
    And the company that are building these games, They have many years of experience now. So their build quality has upped. Everything is upped, man. The speed of build has upped. They have years of experience, but how many games have they actually produced? How many ABBAs? We don't know how many ABBAs they sold. Alien has been produced in the standard version a lot of. I think Alien was a success, man. There's a lot of aliens out there. Yeah. Yeah, and so I want to see them have a game that they've designed that is actually compelling, at least as good as Alien because I don't think they've done that yet.
    42:17
    Oh, you know what? I shared some blurred images. I don't know if you can see the shots on layout, but it's an open play field.
    42:31
    You can see this. I can talk about this without breaking NDA. You can see on the left, when you look at the play field, in the middle to the left, you see some lights, some stuff over there. They have sweepable drop-down targets over there. The upper flippers on the right side?
    42:48
    Yeah, the flippers on the right side, so you can actually hit them, right? But on top of that, they have molded stuff. It's not just flat plastic. It's really nice molded stuff there. and all the way to the left, it has got some moldy stuff from a great scene. Great scene in the movie. I'm so excited.
    43:12
    This guy, he says that I am acting when my voice goes into Arnold mode, and it just happens when I get excited because I don't talk like Arnold.
    43:28
    It's okay. Okay, my wife does the same thing when she gets excited. So just like Arnold, it's incredible. Danny, come on. I'm trying, I'm trying. Anyway.
    43:40
    Okay, anyway, guys, can you hear all the bleeps I'm getting? Yeah, absolutely. It's just Predator, Predator, Predator, Predator, Predator. So is this just – Show me more, show me more, show me more. I don't know if they've officially confirmed this. Is this just Predator movie one, just the original Predator movie? It's only Predator 1. I like that.
    44:02
    I just released something with the music, and I just got a message here. I have watched Predator 100 times, and I have no idea whose voice that is. Oh, okay. He can't figure that out. Well, you will know it in a couple of days. All right. Right? How many lines of dialogue did you record for this game personally? Oh, yeah. Donnie. Jenga's bonus book. I came in too late, man. Can you imagine if there was like a flipper code you can put in at the start of the game and then it would replace all the in-game voices with Genghis? Come on. You don't know what we're doing three months from now. Maybe there will be a Genghis edition. Man, if you get the exclusive topper, you get the exclusive Genghis topper, it unlocks Genghis mode. Come on, shoot here and here. Get down. It's a bomb.
    44:51
    Also like, you know, Talon, anytime, over here. If you have watched the game, you will know what I mean. Anytime. Awesome. You don't remember. I'm going to fire that movie back up, though. Oh, I love it, man. It's the scene with the scorpion. Anytime. How cool is this that we're getting a Harry Potter game, we're getting a Predator game, they're coming soon. So far, the only thing I'm upset about is just the art on the collector's edition because I really wanted it to be like amazing movie vistas, and it's not. And that's fine. It saves me a lot of money. I'm okay with it. Come on. I get to hang on to Avatar now? That's great. Danny, listen to this. You have seen the art of Predator. Everybody has seen the cabinet art of the Predator. It has the letters, the font from the VHS movie box. It says Predator. Bam. That's it. Don't use more time on it. It's recognizable. It's Predator from the movie. That's it. Concentrate. concentrate on the play field that's it just put put all the money all the r&d everything in the play field this one open play field it has got the targets at the left side they're cool but at the back side you have this toy and in front of that toy it has got again drop down targets And it's cleverly done so you don't bash and destroy this toy. It's cool. And that upper flipper will have so many shots. It's not limited. So shots and layout, most people will like it. It was the first thing I saw and I was like, this is cool, man. You want to play this game. But on all Pinball Brother games, always take out those flippers. Install precision flippers. They will shoot like Stern games. like like wow can i want to i want there to be like a pre-order bonus where you get an abba as well
    46:58
    go ahead oh i didn't ask but i i'm gonna talk with daniel about this so we can get an abba cheap i want i want one just because it's such a weird game oh my god you know what another thing donnie maybe we could do this in our show here we have a lot of listeners here donnie so they actually wrote to me that they will soon send me a lot of mercs a lot of merchandise with predator stuff that i could ship out to people yet they i don't know what they mean by it but they said jengis can you help us with this blah blah blah and i was like cool oh dude what if we could do some predator t-shirt giveaways or something something something cool i'm happy to help out i don't want no money nor nothing that would be a heck of a patreon perk i just said okay okay all right donnie all right donnie so okay this one should be just a late bag how how long time have you talked man 47 minutes 57 seconds almost an hour buddy okay okay donnie because we're gonna make a show in a couple of days a couple of days all right yeah So this part, dear listener, this part is just Donnie and I. We're excited. We're just talking about pinball. This is our usual, as people are saying, pinball shilling. Everybody's calling us shills. Everybody's calling us pinball positivity. This part is this part. The rest of the show is only for the guys that has sent me links, audio clips, screenshots, messages about another podcaster called, what was it, man? Loser. It's a Pinball Dirt's podcast. Pinball Dirt? Oh, my goodness.
    48:53
    Norbit. What was it? Pinball Dirt podcast? Yeah, I think that must be it. Okay, Pinball Dirt Podcast. And his name is Norbit Elgar, right? He's close enough. No, Donnie, what's his name? Don't laugh. Norbit Elbert. Yeah, Orbital Albert. Orbital, okay. I have to write it because I'm so bad with names. Orbital. Orbital Albert. Sorry for calling him Norbit, man. Okay, Orbital Albert. Okay, so this is only for you guys. Okay, so we're done. We're done with our pinball fun. So just leave the show. The rest is just for the people that have been writing to me, to us. So I just want to say, Orbital Albert from, what was his, Nerd Show, Nerd Pinball. Don't laugh. Help me out, man. It's the Pinball Nerds Podcast. Never miss an episode. Pinball Nerd Podcast. Okay.
    49:59
    So all of a sudden, I get messages from people. I don't know what's going on. My side of the story is I get messages from a couple of people, and I have talked about this on our show earlier. So people said, Cengiz, you have to jump in and listen to this show. He is just fucking Stern like crazy, shitting all over Stern. They didn't invite him, and they're assholes, and he's a big-time media guy. So I jumped in, and I listened to his show, and he was going bananas on Stern, and it was next level. I listened to the whole show, right? A lot of people did, yeah. Legendary.
    50:49
    It was next level craziness. fine okay it's it's he can do say what i want to say about stern okay so i listened to the next show he did because i subscribed right another podcaster cool i subscribed so i listened to his next show and when i listen to pinball shows donnie i i think just like um JBS, man. We had JBS over here. Jamie. John Bradshaw Layfield. I mean, Jamie, yeah, Jamie Burchill. Jamie, when he goes out in his long walks, he wants to listen to some shows, and he wants positive shows. He wants to feel good, right? So these long walks is just happy, happy, positive, right?
    51:39
    I'm like him. I want stuff like that. So I listened to Orbital Albert's show after that Stern hate show. And like five minutes in, he started shitting on my dear friend Donnie.
    51:54
    And I didn't know what was going on. I was brand new in there. And when I listened to that, I was like, this is just too negative for me. So I just unsubscribed and I stopped it. And months back, we had a talk about this on one of our early shows with Donnie. And just to show nothing like I hate him or cursing or nothing. It was like, it's nothing for me. I'm not interested in stuff like that. That was it. Leave it. Right? Right. So two months ago, I'm getting, I'm getting, people are writing, what's going on? What did you do to this guy? Did you hurt his kids? And I'm like, what? I didn't hurt nobody. So I jumped in. I got a link. I jump in and I listen. And it's Orbital Albert.
    52:44
    And he says like he goes into my YouTube channel. And my YouTube channel is called Retro Django. And I review Mopeds, Amigas, Nintendos, old cars. It's just retro. I like pinball machines, arcades, everything. I just show everything I like. It's not called pinball only. But he goes and he says that he was in there and I showed an air fryer unboxing and he was so angry and blah, blah, blah. And then he says, hashtag, Genghis is dead to me.
    53:20
    That's not a very reasonable response to an air fryer unboxing. Wow. Donnie, I was like, first, when I heard that, all of a sudden, I don't know this guy. I heard that, Genghis and dead. At the beginning, I was like, when was I alive to this guy, right? That was my first defensive thing you have in your mind. But later that day, it just hit me. And I was like, you know, Donnie, I was alone with my son from he was three years old.
    53:53
    It has been the hardest thing in my life to grow him up, to be this young, awesome guy he is now. He's 14 now. And I was like, Cengiz and dead in the same sentence, that hit me. I was like, I want to be there for my son. I want to see him grow up, you know. And it was just so hurtful to be on a public open show to someone saying something like this because I have never experienced. Maybe it hits me too hard because I have never experienced stuff like this, not even a you know ex-girlfriend no one has said my name and death it's it was just so hateful i didn't like it but i i didn't respond to it i think it was too much and i was like usually i talk with donnie every day we talk pinball every day i didn't mention this to him we never talked about it isn't it right donnie yeah first time i'm hearing it yeah yeah yeah and then two weeks goes by and I get this wasn't a link to orbital Albert but this was just a little one of the listeners just recorded with his camera with his phone and sent me this clip and orbital was talking something like fuck USA and fuck Trump something negative negative USA and then including in all that negativity, he said, WAP. And he said, I don't listen to WAP because those guys at WAP, they are very negative.
    55:31
    And I'm like, that didn't hit me because Orbital is allowed to think that Don and I are negative. It's okay. It's okay for him to think our show is a negative show. Again, I didn't mention, this is our show. I should hit you up, Donnie. I don't know if you listen to his show, but we never talked about it. Did you hear that show? Did you hear him say that he didn't listen to us because we were negative? I may have been taking a hiatus and missed that one. Oh, okay, okay, okay. All right. So two weeks ago, he talks. He makes another show, and he talks about me. and then he says something like and and this time don sends me a link don sends me a link and he said and when don sends me a link i take the link of course and he says like fast forward to 40 something minutes and now it's this orbital guy again you know and he's like he cannot listen to my voice when i sound like arnold when i pretend like arnold i come out very not authentic i'm just acting i am unbelieve you cannot believe what i'm saying is i'm hard to listen to it's just bad bad acting and it's so bad he think that it's so bad and he says this open to everybody to listen to, he says when he listens to our two-man show, every time I talk, he fast forwards that part. That sounds exhausting. That's, I mean, Don, can you, the same people that are listening to our shows, listen to other podcast shows, can you imagine how hurtful that is? I mean.
    57:27
    Yeah, I mean, there's other shows that, you know, maybe if I don't totally care for them, I'm not sitting there hate listening or something. But what you're describing doesn't sound like a reasonable response. So I'm wondering if there's something else maybe at play.
    57:43
    Well, but he was like, of course I'm offended by this. I didn't say nothing. I was just listening. And at the same show, this is two weeks ago, just going to listen. Shout out to Pimple Nerd, Orbital Albert. just going to see he says he cannot listen to what i'm doing it's just so unauthentic and unbelievable but he wants to support his boy don he wants to support his boy don but he can't support this show because i am 50 of this show yeah if there was i don't care if it's like uh in a macaroni and cheese i don't like or only like at 50 like i'm not gonna just indulge in part of it and puts the other part on the floor. I don't know. I kind of let people just, you know, be themselves if it's not really affecting anybody else negatively. But obviously, you know, this has become a problem for you. And it's inappropriate to have to deal with that. I have ignored for so long time, Don. I've really tried to ignore this. I mean, so last week he comes up with another show. everybody that knows me knows how excited i am about predator yes this guy comes out on his show last week he says that you know predator is a he says something like it's a lame theme who likes predator and he goes in and he says that i'm promoting for predator only to get money, only to get clicks. He says I'm a sellout. I mean, he says I have no integrity. It's the worst thing you can say to a guy that reviews, man. No integrity, you know, a sellout. So, Donnie, so P3 could contact me and says, portal. I will give you $2,000. Just hype it up. And I'm a sellout. And I will hype that game out. Donnie, this kind of lies, it's just hurtful. I'm happy about people that knows me will never believe in stuff like this. But there are some people that doesn't know me that well. They're just thinking, what a sellout. 50% of WAP show is just a sellout. Just doing all this promotion for Pinball Brothers just to get money. Yeah, I know you generally have an interest in not only European pinball, but Predator as well as other 80s themes. And you reached out to Pinball Brothers and you're like, I want to help this game be successful. I want to see more about this game. Can you share some stuff with me? And to their credit, they're like, yes, come on in. So they've shown you everything. And then you, I know for a fact you're enthusiastic about Predator and other 80s movies and themes. I know you're super hype on this game, and you've seen the whole thing. So that tells me a lot of information. And you did it all without having to say, like, okay, but I need compensation for this and whatnot. So, yeah, like that's why I joked to you earlier about all that NDA money because I listened to this show recently. Actually, we were all driving in the car in Europe listening, having a good time. And I was like, I know he's not kidding. There's no money in an NDA. Oh, my God. And it's just all this time for a month, I was like, why? Why is it? Why? Why is it doing this?
    61:14
    On his last show, he says, like, you know, I have water here and I'm drinking water. He says on his show, Donnie, he says that you mentioned his name and I was drinking water. And I spit my water out all over my recording equipment. I have no recording equipment. Donnie, did you hit this guy up and said, I spit everywhere? Water all over. Did you say this? Because you're the only one that's either your line or his. I don't want to be mean, but or his delusional. I don't want to be mean, but did you call him up and said I was spitting water? Because where does he get stuff like this from? It crazy Donnie But he says that on his last show one week ago he says that okay he very different He says we very different He watches my videos and he says he is 20 years younger than me And, okay, he's a young guy. I'm 45. So, yeah, he's Orbital L. He's only 25 years old. I mean, just be a bio doing that. I don't believe he's 25 years old, no. But he says he's 20 years younger than me. He may have said that, yeah. I don't think that's chronologically accurate.
    62:37
    I have never seen this guy. I have never talked with this guy. How does he look? He must have kept kids because multiple people have said, did you hurt this guy's family? Did you hurt his kids? Jesus. Do you know how old he is? I think he's our age, to be honest. what our age yeah so you're telling me this guy is watching my videos and he's saying that i look like a 65 year old man you're the best looking 65 year old man i've ever seen i don't have i don't have a good answer for you um yeah and you know i i kind of let people just go ahead and be themselves and if they want to portray themselves in an unfavorable light, I kind of let them do that. I respect the autonomy of others to make decisions, even poor ones. I can only really personally be responsible for myself. It's exhausting to try to be responsible for other folks and things. But it seems kind of shitty to crap on people just because they're making content. Unless the grapes at home are just getting super sour on the vine maybe he ended his show by saying literally and i'm quoting he said am i jealous yes and he said something like he wanted to make sure with don he wanted to get patron money because the patron support we're getting 600 something that he could use that money instead of you and i And I'm like, we didn't plan this just to get Patreon money. We never talked about it. We made a show for eight, nine months before we did something Patreon. And it's just envy, jealousy.
    64:30
    He said something like, I'm the reason that he couldn't make an international show with Don. I don't know what that – what's an international show with Don? What is it? I had this idea that, you know, because I had the Don's Pinball Podcast as my solo show. I thought, wouldn't it be fun to do a show with one or two other people where it could be more of a dialogue, exactly like what this ended up turning into? So myself, Ryan Barry, Orville Albert, we're all podcasters. We live in three different countries. I thought this would be a great way to collaborate and do this. And so we tried a trial episode, and I thought it went relatively okay, a good starting point. And then, like, I think it was like the very next day he went on that Stern rant, which he's absolutely allowed to do and produce for his own thing. But, like, I could see it just absolutely throwing all of us in a terrible light at a time when I was trying to push for these media days and more interactivity with the companies, a better relationship so the enthusiasts could actually go to the source and see the factory and see the games and stuff. And I'm trying to nurture that kind of relationship. And it's totally done great. Like, you know, I've been to – since then, you know, we've gone into American Pinball. I've gone to Stern, gone to Jersey Jack, gone to Spooky Pinball multiple times. I've taken people over there into these factories. Like, it's been going great. And it's like, I just don't know if I can go through with, you know, launching a show now with that hanging over it. You know, it's totally allowed to do it. But, like, it would reflect on all three of us. And, you know, Ryan Barry's podcast is just getting going. The last thing I want to do is, like, have that sandbagged. So I just kind of let it, you know, I just gave it some space. You know, I was giving it some space. I mentioned on a live stream that people were asking, I said, well, Albert, he's out in orbit there. We're waiting for him to come back in. I was just going to give it some time. And then he got offended at that, and that had to play itself out. So I took a couple of steps back there, sipped my tea, and gave it some time, and then reached out to you. And you're somebody that not only is enthusiastic about this but able to record, and also you have the time to do it. That's the huge thing, man, trying to find somebody that can be available to do these sorts of things. And so here we are now today. Was that the reason he shit on you on his shows? I don't know if that was the sole reason. There's got to be other stuff going on that none of us are really privy to. But, you know, I try to allow people to be themselves, and I won't be openly critical of them. But if they do something that I don't agree with, I'll just kind of step back and let them play itself out. That was a big reason I took three leaps away from Kaneda when he was melting down, because I started to get kind of associated with him. Like, oh, hey, you're the new little Kaneda. And I was like, no, no, no, no, please don't conflate us. No, no, let me back well away from this. And then that was a good idea. I ended up getting banned from his Patreon and all that business. Now he reaches out and says, oh, you can come back. And it's like, well, why? I come back just so you can get offended and then do it again to me. No, thank you, ma'am. I don't need to do that.
    67:32
    So I let people play in the space and be creative. I like that. I think there's room for everybody. But personal attacks, he's dead to me. That seems like an unreasonable reaction to a pinball podcast. I mean for months this has been one-way attack, just one-way attack, attack, attack. I get offended. That's one thing. But I get hurt. It hurts, man. It's hurtful. and the last thing is some of the times actually a week ago when you sent me the link and I listened to his where he fast forwarded when he thought that I was this bad at this you wanted to make a show and to be honest it took all of my passion and I just I wanted to just stop doing media to stop unboxing saying, stop doing WAP, just play pinball in my game room. Because this kind of negativity just, I don't want negativity in my life. And it just destroyed it for me. I think that's part of the reason that I want to check it up right now. Because if I get attacked like this, one-way attack, I have never seen this orbital. I have never seen him. I don't know where he's from, why he does this. It's just pure for me. When he says that, you know, when he says I'm a sellout, no integrity, lying about me, I'm going to be really mean now. For me, he seems like an ignorant man.
    69:15
    That's just how I feel. This is the meanest I'm going to be back. Ignorant. That's it. so Don do you know is this guy from the US do you know that no no he lives north of our border in Canada in the northern reaches okay so you're not close to him no I okay I was like okay this is a young kid you could talk with him but you said that he's about our age yes wow man do I really look like a 65 year old guy okay okay Don I just need some help to Because how I feel about this is I don't know him, never talk with him, know nothing. I'm not interested to listen to his shows, nothing. I just want him to stay away from me. Don't talk about me. What can I do? If you know him, what can I do to just please leave me alone? I have no interest. If you could answer that, you will solve the entire troll problem on the internet.
    70:25
    The way it works, as long as you're doing something that people are enjoying, as long as you're enjoying a moderate amount of success at least, there will be people that will want to detract from that, whether they get jealous, whether they're just psychos or whatever it is. And it's a hard thing because the human thing to do is to confront it, but then that just ends up fueling it even more. Well, I don't think he's a psycho or nothing like that. Yeah. But he mentioned he was jealous. Not you, not I. He mentioned. Donnie, if this guy wrote to us, because on all our shows we said, we're pinball69gmail.com. If you wrote to us and said, this is so cool. I want to be a part of this. Can I join your show? I would have asked you and he could come and, you know, visit the show every three times. Something. Sure. Instead of this kind of hate. We need a Canadian correspondent, so that could have worked out great. Instead of – because you're saying that when you put yourself out there, you will have some trolls. Nobody else has been doing this against our show or me like this. Never calling me a liar, calling me a sellout. Well, so it's not – yeah. So if you were really jealous and wanted to kind of improve your own situation, it would be reasonable to reach out, and it would be unreasonable to say, this guy's dead to me and he sucks. If you were upset because you weren't invited to the Stern Factory Tour, it would be reasonable to reach out to people to try to see what you could do to help. It would be unreasonable to say that you're going to break in and take an upper decker in their toilets and F you Stern, right? So that's kind of a pattern of some unreasonable behavior that kind of crops up repeatedly. And so I think that's what it is. As far as how to deal with these sorts of things, it's difficult. um you know you can block and ban people you can put the word out like hey keep my name at your mouth the will spiff method um but uh do you know all his usernames on facebook on youtube uh no i don't know i think he's on youtube he's not on youtube he says he watches my youtube videos oh that's true um i don't know i know he goes by angry alpaca that's the name of his coffee repackaging and tea repackaging company what yeah what oh donnie those two shows i listened to he shit on canada and he said that he unsubscribed canada is negative canada this this he doesn't want to listen to canada and he's and that username is on canada's shows this last Saturday he was in there oh my god that's some schizophrenic stuff man I don't diagnose via podcast but I understand the pathology it is like that Adam I'm not saying he is that wow I mean Don do you talk with him occasionally yeah we chat sometimes can you next time you talk Can you please tell him the reason he's not making international show with you has nothing to do with me. And if you and old bitter Albert, if you two want to make a show, none of you has to ask me first. Nothing like that. Do whatever you want to do. so he has to he has to know i have nothing to do with this nothing it was something something else i love we're doing this i love we're getting this kind of support but patreon was just a side thing what i love about our patreon stuff is the chat going on in there i mean these two weeks because I have direct access to Predator, it has been so heated in there, like no other podcast patron has been so heated up. Come on, tell about this. Let's talk about it. If you're interested in Predator, use the five bucks. Come on, join. It's so much fun. Except this Orbital Albert, he cannot make himself join because of me. He wants to support you, Donnie. Isn't it sad? But there's a solution for that. Yes. Now, I will do him a favor. I will block him from – what? Angry guy and block him everywhere. You will help me with Facebook. I will block him and I will help him out so he will never listen or watch my shit shows. So I will help him. That's a great – That's a very reasonable thing for you to do. You're going to help the guy out so that he will not be offended by your content anymore. Yeah, yeah. So I just want to help him that way. Yeah. and just the plan that's the first plan the second plan you tell him this has nothing to do with me that he doesn't make the international and the third thing you could make something with him if you want donnie do it and he could get patreon money because he said that he could use the money more than you and i so yeah if he can do that i mean just stay away from me man i'm just not interested and usually usually we can talk about stuff but this with this many shows with my integrity sell out donnie you know nobody can buy me nobody you know how i am nobody right donnie Yeah, I mean, he's just – is he just imagining stuff and two seconds later that happened or what? What does – is he in – what does – do you know what he does? I believe he is a full-time homesteader. What's homesteader? What does that mean? It's like you stay home and you have a big garden and some animals. Yeah, but what does he – income, what does he do every day? Oh, I think he sells chickens and also comic books and Pokemon cards. Oh, he's a farmer? Yeah, yeah, essentially. Kind of.
    76:43
    What's kind of? So he has a big farm? No, no, just at the house, growing things just for personal use, not really for sale. But then I think he also sells – How can he live? He also sells comic books and Pokemon cards, I believe, that are graded, and apparently that's worth some amount of money. also he has a marketing degree like everybody else in pinball seems to yeah i saw that angry name at um what did you say he was called on angry alpaca yeah yeah he was on youtube on uh last saturday he was the only guy that was writing um yeah pinball brothers are teasing huge fail hashtag fail fail i i i saw it but he was like fail fail i didn't know that that was orbital albert he was like now you're saying he has degree in marketing fail well dude if it's such a big fail why are they all of a sudden all of a month ago people were like pimple brother is shutting down this is just every skin this is this this is that month later with all my free promotion they're selling games that people haven't seen yet talking about media if you don't like now the promotion i did was it's just bonus i think it's so cool we will get jersey jack in a couple of days we're getting these small bonus clips i cannot wait it's so cool if he gets irritated by that block me block keep the voice there he's calling me all this this crazy stuff on our next show yes on our next show donnie i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you exactly when this happened it's fun it's the day i became from a boy to a man i'm gonna give you a 10 minute at the end of our next show i'm gonna tell you how this happened and it happened with a beautiful beautiful lady just wait and see just remind me on the next show okay i can't wait i can't wait for this i mean it's not gonna be patreon i'm gonna share it here it should be patreon and you have to be 21 to listen to it but i'm gonna i'm gonna share it and i cannot wait i'm gonna stay buckled then yeah so donnie Help me so I can block all his accounts and then tell him I have nothing to do with he not making shows with you. And if you two want to make shows, make shows. Just please. I am saying please. I said I feel he's like an ignorant guy because he's just saying stuff that doesn't exist and he doesn't know me. That's the only mean thing I'm going to say to him. Other than that, just leave me alone. Just leave me. Talk about somebody. No, wait. Don't talk about anyone else.
    79:46
    Yeah, yeah. No, no. That's some high road there. That's some high road. Don't do this to others. Just talk about pinball and enjoy chicken or what you like, you know. So, yeah. I think, I hope this stops. And dear listener, I'm sorry about this. And if he talks about me, don't send anything to me. because it removes my lust to make more content. And Donnie, if he does, don't share nothing with me. I hope it ends right now. I really hope it. Let's do it. Like dune dust in the wind. Yes. All right.
    80:24
    That was a very emotional end to WAP episode number 36. But I think we'll be back here in a couple of days because we're going to have a Harry Potter game to talk about. We'll have some more Predator stuff to talk about hopefully soon. I can't wait. Anything else, brother?
    80:38
    The countdown timer for Predator will be released very short time after Harry Potter gets released. There you go. There's your exclusive.
    80:51
    Let's go. So this Orbital is, he says that he really wants to support you on Patreon, but he cannot because of me. You have your own Patreon. Does he support it there? He does not. No.
    81:26
    Are you sure about that? I'm sure. I just double checked. Yeah. Search. Nothing came up. Yeah. So as of now and ever, no. The answer is no.
    81:39
    Okay, but he really wants to support his boy, Don. So there's a solution to this. He can drop the WAP show. He can listen to Don's Pinball Podcast. Don is amazing in there. And he can support you, Donnie. And he can support you with a higher tier than $5. So it can give him the satisfaction of supporting you on both channels, right? Yeah, there's a solution for everything. On top of that, he can listen to a show where you talk alone. So he doesn't need to fast forward my part. In the face of adversity, here you are with a solution. Yes, I mean, let's do everything with a smile, right? There's a solution for everything. So no hard feeling, no nothing. Just leave me alone and enjoy Donnie. Support Donnie. He's a beautiful man, and have some fun, right? Absolutely, sir. That's it.