Rick and Morty defense + Stern anniversary edition strategy debate
Summary
Triple Drain Podcast Episode 42 features Joel, Travis, and Tom discussing Rick and Morty pinball's underrated design and unique features, then pivoting to Stern's strategy of releasing limited edition anniversary versions (Jurassic Park 30th) rather than vaults, and speculation about whether Stern will continue this monetization approach with future remakes like Stranger Things.
Key Claims
Rick and Morty has a clunky layout but exceptional code and modes that reward extended play time
high confidence · Joel explains that Rick and Morty's brutality on location drives players away before they experience the humor and unique modes
Justin Roland voiced unique, pinball-specific call-outs for Rick and Morty but won't return for new code updates
medium confidence · Joel mentions Justin Roland did 'a gazillion callouts' and notes he likely won't contribute to future updates
JJP is selling Godfather CE accessories (silver versions of gold LE components) as a package to distributors, who may unbundle and sell individually
high confidence · Tom explains JJP sold accessories as a package but distributors can break them apart
Stern released Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary with different powder coat and art package, priced higher than standard Premium
high confidence · Joel and Travis discuss Travis trading Avengers LE for Jurassic Park 30th; Tom bought JP Premium before anniversary release
Godzilla has a major anniversary (70th or 50th) coming next year, setting up potential for a Stern anniversary edition
medium confidence · Joel speculates Godzilla anniversary is likely target for future anniversary strategy, similar to Jurassic Park
Stranger Things premium is currently the most limited edition Stern game due to its small original production run
medium confidence · Travis notes Stranger Things had limited run and people forget this; he suggests premium may be most limited edition available
Travis sold his Rick and Morty spot on his route despite enjoying it due to high location play volume
high confidence · Travis confirms he sold his spot and had positive experience with the machine
Rick and Morty features a pulsing magnetic save on the right side instead of black knight-style instant grab, giving player control
high confidence · Travis explains the magnet pulses as you hold the button, allowing ball speed control unlike traditional magnet saves
Notable Quotes
“once you accept that the layout of the game is clunky and it's going to be a challenge, once you accept that and get past that, the code of the game is actually a lot of fun”
Joel@ 9:01 — Core thesis defending Rick and Morty against location player criticism
“if you put a dollar into the game and you drain very quick it doesn't matter how great the game is, you're going to be like this game sucks”
Joel@ 9:56 — Explains why location difficulty matters more than code quality for casual players
“it's a complete stop and go elevator... it's totally different than what anything else spooky has done”
Travis@ 17:20 — Highlights Rick and Morty's unique stage ball mechanic as a design innovation
“the games that typically draw me back are the ones that are going to make me laugh or the ones that I know are just fun”
Joel@ 18:01 — Identifies humor/fun factor as primary replayability driver across games
“well hell yes it's a cash grab, they're a business, why would you not do that? they need to make money, they need to pay employees”
“why pinball has shied away from doing sequels or doing huge themes in segments... like we talked about Harry Potter, the same thing with Stranger Things”
Joel@ 31:18 — Raises structural question about IP licensing and multi-game franchises in pinball
gameplay_signal: Rick and Morty's difficult layout creates early friction for location players but reveals excellent code/humor depth on extended play; hosts identify this as design pattern affecting multiple games (Turtles, Star Wars, Ghostbusters)
high · Joel's detailed explanation of how initial brutality prevents casual players from reaching engaging mechanics; Travis agrees and contrasts with shooter-friendly Keith Elwin designs
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design_innovation: Rick and Morty features pulsing magnetic save (rather than instant grab) on right side, providing player control over ball speed and return trajectory
high · Travis describes mechanic in detail: 'pulse so as you hold the ball down it pulses the magnet and you get a little more control... slow the ball down whip it back into play'
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design_innovation: Rick and Morty's Dimensions mode fundamentally alters gameplay through lighting, sound, scoring, and ramp functionality changes on each playthrough
high · Joel: 'Dimensions completely change the game... lighting or sound or how things score or like ramps don't work or this doesn't work and it just makes everything feel different'
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product_strategy: Stern shifting from pure vaults to anniversary-themed limited editions with new art packages and powder coats at premium pricing (Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary model)
high · Joel and Tom discuss JP 30th Anniversary having different art/powder coat than standard Premium; Joel predicts this will continue with Godzilla 70th anniversary
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market_signal: Collectors trading existing LE machines for new anniversary/limited editions; Travis traded Avengers LE for Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary despite having LE status
Topics
Rick and Morty pinball design and gameplayprimaryLayout difficulty vs code quality as replayability factorprimaryStern anniversary edition strategy vs traditional vaultsprimaryLimited edition FOMO and pricing strategyprimaryJurassic Park 30th Anniversary release and adoptionprimaryStranger Things vault rumors and hypothetical strategysecondaryPodcast production delays and personal life disruptionssecondaryGodzilla anniversary edition speculationsecondary
Sentiment
positive(0.75)— Hosts are enthusiastic about Rick and Morty and supportive of Stern's business strategy; light-hearted banter with some friendly criticism; positive tone about games and design decisions; no major negativity toward manufacturers
Transcript
youtube_auto_sub · $0.000
[Music] the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right wow it has been a long time it has been a long time but we are back we are back we're finally able to record um so I hope everybody's good to go um Tom what are you drinking are you uh I Got Crystal light uh lemonade thing that's really going to get you going you're ready you're you're pumped yeah sure okay Travis are you good what are you drinking you ready you reved up yeah I've got my honey green tea in my Mario Brothers Coffee Cup cuz I'm a Manchild well look at you I'm hitting the button we're three guys who like to talk in all we came up with a cloud our name where Joel and Travis talk in all and we call ourselves triple Dr triple Dr triple Dr we're triple triple Dr I'm not lying but I'm pretty sure Travis was yawning easily half of that song like you your mouth opened in the middle and I was surprised you were done by the end of the song I was vocal warmups what that was just one open mouth the whole time but all right well we are here it is episode 42 42 we're we're cruising right along um first and foremost we are so sorry listeners for the delay um it has what is it we recorded a while ago like it was at least a month ago and why were we delayed well for like two it was like for the first two weeks after we released there was like no news there was nothing we were still waiting on Venom nothing there was nothing so we were talking we're like is it worth recording there really wasn't there really wasn't anything there really wasn't anything to talk about so we're like we'll give it shot me down what did we I wanted wanted to record no no no I did not shoot Tom down cuz true it was Jo it was it was Joel We were supposed to record a week and a half ago and Joel's like like you know I live A busy life here I have Joel with friends I got interview Keith I'll win or somebody no it's what it is and then tonight freaking Diva we're here on time for the time that he told us to be here and hey guys I'm going to be late my dog's got to go to bed I got to put my dog to bed I got to put the kids to bed and deal with a dog yes my wife uh my wife was real into the idea of getting a puppy and even though our our son is three and still not sleeping through the night consistently apparently this is the right time to add a puppy into our life um and we have a 5-year-old daughter as well so um if you can't if you can't judge by the or or tell by the sarcasm don't do that don't add a puppy when you don't have consistent sleep it was it was it was a mistake but um I feel like my my voice I I let my opinion I I I shared my thoughts on it before we got a dog and um you know I feel like it they were they were received but maybe not taken to heart I don't know Tom do you have do you know anything about that you know you're almost as tired as Travis's camera Travis's camera who which is already out yeah it sounds like Joel that you have a lot of authority in your in your house that's what it sounds like we we run a ship it's a 50/50 you know kind of ship of we both you know carry the load and make sure we're we're we're pulling our weight here but um there are certain decisions that really don't feel 5050 but um I don't know I yeah yeah whatever anyways so we have a dog now yep and I had to deal with the dog and and here we are but hey we're here we're here we're finally here um so if Joel goes missing Tom for the next month again it just means that his wife listens to this podcast well okay his dog is lost and he search for the dog he probably gets the golf cart out just goes around yeah I'll see how far I can get on one charge of a golf cart I'll get about whatever four miles and then that'll be me running away um uh I the record button is going by the way where're I know I made recording yes we're doing well all right good awesome but no there was there wasn't a ton of news and then there was and then there was a lot of travel there was a lot of travel between like I had a family thing that I was traveling for and then you guys both had tournaments that I mean it was just I think even like didn't like super series even happen in the last month I mean it was like oh yeah Super Series has already happened Joel yeah not super series but there was the huge thing in District 82 that yeah penberg penberg happened what was the huge thing the summer summer something summer summer series y the summer something you're summer something some something it's a big it's a big great job Jo there was a bunch of people that went to it I I know that was something like which I had to miss well you did didn't you have like a wedding anniversary or something yeah no a wedding anniversary no my nephew was getting married oh well I remember seeing a picture of you and a tie so I just assumed but um but no that was like a whole week thing though you're like yeah I can't do anything from Tuesday to the following Monday I mean it was like yeah so I get it anyways that's all of our excuses it's been a long time but here we are Joel's excuses Tom and I would have recorded but our Overlord is like no I said you're welcome to do it and Travis is like you think I'm gonna figure out Zen Caster you can't even figure out your camera there's zero chance that is true zero chance zero chance but Venom right here we are yes so let's look at our list Venom is really the main thing what is what has happened to us in the last few weeks Venom is the main thing but I do want to I I want to side T him before we got dive into Venom because um and I want to talk about this machine right here behind me I have a Rick and Morty I have a Rick and Morty here behind me and um there was a is that actually getting played since you have a Venom right behind your head okay it was getting played a lot before I got Venom okay but Rick and mor like how Joel's like there's this new pinball machine out we're going to talk about it I don't want to forget talk about this one that came out three and a half years ago if you look at our list our list has four points and Rick and Morty is none of them exactly I want to make sure f are you doing right now I want to talk about I think this pen okay Tom Tom we we do all this stuff get the number one maybe I just talk to Tom you know okay that's that's fine Travis on your camera or whatever you know you're right he moves the mic I want to talk about Rick and Morty Rick and Morty I um I was borrowing a Spider-Man we talked about Spider-Man Spider-Man Vault Edition was the last we talked about that and that ruffled some feathers um well that Spider-Man was sold so I had a big open spot in my in my lineup and I needed something until Venom showed up and a buddy of mine in the area had a Rick and Morty and he's like sure bar it have a great time my buddy Chris and he actually streamed it the night we streamed the game I've only played Rick and Morty a handful of times every time I've played it at a show it's either been down or it's in a broken state or if I've played It On Location it's it's brutal like I just I get one or two games in and that's it so I just haven't really had much time on this now that I actually have it in the house and actually been playing it These Guys these guys what are you doing what what I'm just watching Travis react you guys just looking at each other laughing you know if that's I thought you were going to gush over this pen then all a sudden I said it was broken I said all my experience before all my experience before was negative but now that it's here and it's working and I actually have a chance to put time on it posi this game's really fun there you you just got to wait you just got to wait a second imagine a game working yeah oh okay so I think we we should probably clarify that right that a that a working pinball machine is typically better than a broken one oh you haven't played Thunderbirds this is a message to all you operators out there make sure your games are actually working for people prefer that people prefer that yeah they do um same thing tournament Players prefer games that are working well compared to just junky games tournament Players prefer that every [ __ ] switch in the game works and we won't we won't get into that okay so Rick and why is Rick and Morty great and and what I will tell you is um the game is clunky that's my negative the game is clunky but once you accept that that the game is the layout of the game is clunky and it's going to be a CH challenge once you accept that and get past that the the code of the game is actually a lot of fun the modes in the game are a lot of fun they're very unique and the overall theme in like it it is Rick and Morty to a te like it's the it the immersion of the game and the the integration of the game's hilarious and that's well that's the last part is it's freaking hilarious it is such a fun and funny game to play Travis you're really stuck on a thought you've been like stuck on it for 10 seconds down so you're saying if you get past the bad parts the pin is fun I would say most people when they step up to a pinball machine on location they're not going to hear it and typically when you're playing Pinball it's hard to look at this LCD so what are you experiencing initially you're experiencing the shots you're experiencing the layout and you typically experience like the brutality so if you put a dollar into the game and you drain very quick it doesn't matter how great the game is you're going to be like this game sucks and you're going to move to the next game that to me is this game is a challenging layout but when you have it in your house and you're not having to pump money into it and you can just keep playing and you can start to learn where some of these challenging shots are that's when the game really opens up and becomes a lot of fun and it's I think some people don't have the patience or the money to keep putting quarters or dollars into a game to get past that challenging point like I think Turtles I think Turtles gets a bad rap because I think Turtles people play Turtles and they're like this game sucks because it's too hard and they never get far enough to actually experience the code or the whatever but Rick and Morty I think it's that's I mean that's why like a Keith lwin game you can just step up to it and it shoots well and so people are immediately finding satisfaction in the game and they're gon to keep playing it and then then they start to experience the code and the all the other good stuff but if a game shoots poorly or is very challenging it's hard to get people past that initial barrier is that I mean I'm not wrong on that right I mean I we can give you validation if you want validation I just don't know anymore I just I look at your face and it's just it's just there I just don't know what you know what you're going to do I'm trying not to interrupt I'm listening intently okay because I appreciate your view on Rick and Morty Joel I've been I've been watching a lot of uh lawyer TV so um I'm going to uh what about Avengers a lot of people don't like Avengers and that game shoots like butter yeah but I think I think people give it enough time like they give it enough time to like okay I'm shooting I'm shooting shots but I don't know what I'm doing but I feel like there are certain games Turtles is one of them and I think Rick and Morty is one of them where they're like or even like Star Wars like Star Wars some of the brutality of that layout even the plunge where you immediately drain they're just like that Paul I I don't even or Ghostbusters you know it's like it all happened so fast and I don't know if I want to put another dollar in lose the ball in 10 seconds like I I just it's like they can't get past that and so that to me is I just I was I've been really impressed with the game and the big part of it is if you're a Rick and Morty fan it does Rick and Morty incredibly well it is really funny the game is really really funny the call outs the fact that they got Justin Roland I think is the guy's name to actually do a gazillion callouts that are pinball specific it just you'll hear things that you as you're playing it over the course of a few hours that you you know unique call outs that are just really funny the how's Justin Roland doing now not good not good is it Justin Roland or Dan Dan hard I think it's Justin Rand I I don't think he's goingon to be coming back to do any uh for the new code upate or anything but the other thing about that game is the modes are great like the modes are very unique they feel like they're just they feel different every single one you play and I really like that I really like mode-based games that the modes are unique and fun and and then uh the other thing I love about it is the dimensions the dimensions are the fact that as you're playing the game Dimensions completely change the game whether it's the lighting or the sound or how things score or like ramps don't work or this doesn't work and it just makes everything feel different every time you play and that that to me I think what's tough with a pinball machine is if it starts to get old or you feel like you're just doing the same thing over and over again that's when people typically get sick of a game and I just really like the variety that's in that game so my overall view is I I'm just I'm really glad I've had it this long because I think it's gotten a bad rap but I understand for some people that own it and still own it I I understand why and like Tom you still own yours and I remember right now yeah I remember asking like why do you why do you own it and I'm curious what your thought is it it's not Hall angel well you don't there's nothing in your your you know your life contract of I have to own a spooky game and so this is the best of the worst like I I really like the theme and I like the shots on it and the brutality of it and it keeps me entertained so I that's why I keep it around yeah well I and I don't blame you I'm just saying if if it sucks though because I think on location um if you if you can't force yourself to keep playing to get better at the shots and if you can't hear it if you can't hear the game like the the humor is so good in this game and you got to be able to hear it and that's that's one thing I I hate about location play is certain locations are just so loud that you just totally miss out on an audio package of a game and that can really impact the overall experience um but I don't know for me I'm I'm very impressed with Rick and Morty I've really enjoyed having it and that's the end of my tangent and I Travis you said uh before we started recording that it was you had one but you're so far down on the list that you actually sold your spot just because you played a ton of it on location I mean what was your what was your feeling or view of it when you I enjoyed it it's by far my most favorite spooky it doesn't to me whenever I play it it doesn't feel like a spooky if that makes sense it just it feels like it's kind of its own thing I enjoy the shots for what they are they are challenging it's not the best layout ever cuz there is a lot of clunk but for me personally I kind of like that just because it makes something challenging mhm and I enjoy that type of challenge plus I like the show I watched the show before and it was you know it was enjoyable so yeah so any of the listeners that are Rick and Morty fans like and if that's a dream theme of yours I I think it's a fun game and and I will tell you having the the pop Bumper in the down at the sling is awesome it's really fun I would love to see more unique stuff like that cuz it's it still feels like it still feels like a normal layout but that it's it's enough of a change that it really feels unique but the the other thing that really stands out to me though is the the Magna save or the the magnet ball save on the right instead of it just being like a black knight where you hit the button and it just goes on and it just grabs the ball this it's like it's a pulse so as you hold the ball down or the button down it pulses the the the magnet and you get a little more control with that and the way you can like kind of slow the ball down whip it back into play or I don't it just it's a really really fun feature that I would love to how about that stage ball a fast meis that got my brother so many times and it it it's it's like we almost had to warn him like jar you're in this like portal shot you know it's just I love it is is it faster than the one on Venom uh yes yes I would say it is but that's a great transition unless anybody else uh you know we'll just how how would you compare it to to Halloween Halloween where it's like where' the ball go look around look around and it just kind of dribbles out that's and I don't I mean it's just yeah it's a complete stop and go elevator just so it's just it's it's Unique because the layout and the rules it just it's totally different than what anything else spooky has done yeah in my opinion I think that's what drives a lot of people to enjoy the game for what it is because it just it just feels like its own thing mhm and the assets and everything at least with the theme it just feels like it's integrated very well too I mean anything you look at it could always be better of course but for what it is the way that they got the modes the way that they have the dimensions the sounds and the humor in it too I think that pulls it a long ways that's to me that's the most enjoyable parts of the game I completely agree the humor is that's something the more that I get into pinball the games that typically draw me back are the ones that are going to make me laugh or the ones that I know are just fun you know and that fun factor is typically funny or humorous or something like I mean sure Godzilla isn't like cracking jokes but it's campy and it's just a fun light-hearted theme kind of thing um which is which isn't like a dig on like Godfather like Godfather I enjoyed it but Godfather is very just kind of Godfather's hilarious you you don't know the comedy in it no no I'm not I'm not fall in the comedy and Godfather no um you know I should transition into Venom but I'm going to just make one you know another side comment because we mentioned Godfather Tom you're a Godfather owner you're not a CE owner but jjp did release accessories and so a Topper instead of two guys shooting at you with coils you only get one and then all the other all the other CD CE bells and whistles you can get those but instead of gold they're silver do you care is this what are your thoughts on that I I I don't know I mean it's nice that they're offering it but it's not something I'm going to get no you're not planning on getting any of them no I don't think so I mean they come as a package right now so what I what I've heard is yes they are sold to Distributors as a package but it is up to distributor if they want to like open the package and start to sell things individually but then it's then you're up to the distributor and whether or not they get stuck with you know well people wanted the topper so now I'm stuck with three Horsehead shooter knobs you know yeah so I don't know I just I you're you are typically an Le buyer and and in this situation the Le which is the c yeah but this is the CE version I I find it very interesting is like the standard version of the game correct I'm saying you're typically an Le buyer in Stern world so that's that would be the equivalent of the CE and J jjp world I just think it's very interesting that all the essentially all the bells and whistles that the c c had they're basically selling to everybody else just with a color change and I think some people probably prefer the silver over the gold and I I had that very unique I mean I know there was an argument with Cactus Canyon with the se+ that they're like the whole reason I bought the LA is cuz the topper nobody else could get that and then now people can get that so I I'm trying to think of a an equivalent there of um you know if if Stern sold well this isn't this is this isn't the best example they put a Topper on the 60th anniversary of James Bond and then exclusive topper and then they sold what you mean something like that sold it well I was try yes that's that's a valid point um but I'm trying to think I mean Le in the stern world is just different powder coat and then the only thing that's exclusive is the mired back glass and the art blades and so if let's talk about that the signature and the signature yes the signature so so you know Stern has done you know first they did the what the 40th of uh alvra was it something like that yep and then they did the same thing with uh with Jurassic Park with the 30th I mean in some respects those are limited packages that they've changed so they came out with a limited edition game but now they're coming out with something different that's limited edition and I know jjp's done the same thing you're not following me Joel no I am I'm just trying to I didn't Jurassic Park 30th come out like two days after we recorded wasn't that a thing yeah we haven't talked about Jurassic Park 30th have we I don't think we have I don't know I have one in my game room though I Know Travis owns one lot of fun it plays just like Jurassic Park Le go figure but the powder coat is different oh the art package is different chef's kiss I love I mean why maybe that's a question Travis is like why you know why did you decide to buy the Jurassic Park 30th when premiums are available Counterpoint why not why not how many discussions have you had in your marriage where you responded that way where Monica asked you a direct question and you respond with you respond with why not you never self- implicate you always just reverse it Uno reverse card on everything yeah no I I got it because uh because my wife wanted the game yeah I I planned on getting a Jurassic Park premium uh before and then when I realized that the 30th was coming out I just waited and then when it came out said okay I'm going to get this but I did have to I ended up giving up Avengers Le which I never thought I would do but I am getting Avengers Pro so I figured that's a decent tradeoff right there trade cuz I was just thinking about which direction do I want to go with this and I realized that my Avengers Le I had it basically set up like a pro cuz you had the subway turned off yeah the subway was broke for a long time and then I just left it on just to play like a pro in general the only difference differences were the Captain Marvel ramp and then the Ant-Man scoop and that was about it oh you didn't even do the oh because the Subway's off so the saucer doesn't even go up and down the saucer the spin could I just yeah I I could bypass it would still do it's normal thing just without locking the balls but I just you hardly ever run into it in tournament so I just use it as a pro cuz that's the version you typically see out there and it plays a lot lot different a lot more difficult if you do that so you know that's just reasons why I did that and plus I like Jurassic Park I skipped out on an Le before a few years ago and decided when I knew that the uh 30th was coming out just wanted to get it and the wife wanted to get it so you don't say no to Monica when she wants pinball and she doesn't say no to Keith elen she is a fan nope she's going to get any of those pins so yeah so I guess I'm due to get another premium or Le here in just what few months oh next game yeah um well cool I'm glad you got one are Tom I really we didn't I don't think we talked about this Tom are you do you own Jurassic Park you own Jurassic Park don't you uh I have the premium right over by Rush the premium okay CU I was curious if you had the Le so I had I originally had the pro and I just upgraded recently with my ifpa rewards ah got it got it so so as a recent JP premium buyer would you were you a little upset like if you would have known the J the 30th edition was right around the corner would you have gone for that or no not at all no okay I mean cost wise it's it's a little bit more expensive than a premium Joel I don't know if you've looked yeah yeah yeah yeah well cool well I do think um I would guess Stern's gonna do more of this and I think um I think somebody pointed out that Godzilla has an anniversary next year I did yeah yeah it's the 40th anniversary or not 40th I think it's the the 50th I don't know you guys tell in this now could have sold my pin I think it's the 70th Anniversary coming up I know right now it's the 60th for Avengers but they didn't do anything for that yeah it would I know that there's a huge anniversary coming up for Godzilla next year that would not Shock me at all if you kind of just follow back what on that that just seems like a foregone conclusion right if you're going to do it for alvra and Jurassic Park why not do it for one of your biggest selling games if not your biggest selling game of all time so what about this question what if Stern is done with vaults so we no longer have vaults but from here on out every version if if Stern remakes a game instead of it just being a vault where they remade what's already available they do some sort of limited edition cash grab no just but it's I mean like what I mean what if that so what's a game that that has like um I don't know like Ghostbusters let's say they do a Ghostbuster Vault instead of just making the pros are the premiums same art same everything they pay zombie Yeti to do a new art package new powder coat sell it for an Le price they make them limited boom yes yes yes yeah well why not I mean anniversary packages it's not like pinball is the only industry that does this if you I think I even sent you guys the picture of the uh Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary stuff that I saw in stores yeah right so I mean people were calling us a cash grab and everything and I just want to say well hell yes it's a cash grab they're a business why would you not do that they're they need to make money they need to pay employees they need to keep everything going please stay in business yeah exactly please make as much money as you so you can keep producing pinball by all means do that so yeah I I think that it would be a very good strategy to focus on anniversaries like that of successful ends or themes that they've had in the past as opposed to just straight up vating I mean you could there's still a time and place for a vault but yeah if like next year for example it is a 70th anniversary of Godzilla so there you go maybe 75th you just wait a few more years I that seems obvious to me what that they that they would do that but I think if you do a if you do an anniversary or you do a new art package a new limited edition you know they were people that sold their their JPL or sold their premiums to get they wanted to upgrade they wanted this instead and if you just do a vault there's you know it's rare that people are like I don't know like I'm curious I wasn't around when like Iron Man vaulted were there Iron Man owners that sold their game just to get the vault or no it was basically the same it's it's going to be tough in the future because so many games are being produced nowadays yeah that I think it's going to be tough just to outright Vault things I think the only time you're going to see a vault is if a game just had a very limited run to begin with and that's whywe right well that's why stranger things is being rumored heavily for a vault because it did not have a big run a lot of people forget that I would venture to say that the premium is probably actually the the most limited edition out there y right now what's next season five have a season five uh well so that's we'll we'll roll with stranger things let's say instead of there's rumors right that there's a big opening in November so people are like this would be the opportunity for stern to do a vault stranger things there's obviously demand for that there's a new season coming out do they do the Vault do they just make a bunch of premiums or do they have a whole new art package and they do another but and they call it a limited edition you know and they I don't know what they I maybe they can do an anniversary or they just call it the season five an limited edition I don't know but does it make sense for stern to pretty it up more so that they can charge a lot more money or do they just make the same game the premium and they charge it they charge current premium prices uh it seems to me that they're going to make more money if they do a limited type Edition game but does that piss the pre I don't know Travis is stroking a beard I don't know what you know what stroking a beard is it's you know I don't I can't grow a beard so Joel please tell me what's stroking a beard yeah have to know um I'm trying to figure out how to comment on this particular subject I so I would think if they would come out with stranger things and have a brand new art package yeah I think that would help it a lot I think if you add in the UV kit with it that would help out a lot I think those two things would be pretty cool uh you know in in terms of a full-on art package obviously because of the way that the Playfield was with the UV kit I'm not even sure if that could even be done anyways I don't know what the logistics are with that but um I don't know I if if they did stranger things I wish that they would just come out with the other Seasons as opposed to doing a vault well that's what I would like to see personally but you know Oh you mean like an actual new game yeah why not I mean we've talked about that before I the one thing I've never understood is why pinball has shied away from doing sequels or or doing huge themes in segments you know just like we talked about Harry Potter yeah you know and the same thing with stranger things they did the first two seasons well there's been two other Seasons to come out and the show is bigger more than ever now it's breaking records all the time why would you not just go ahead and say okay let's push forward with that I I would think Netflix would rather have a pen made entirely of the whole entire show just go to the fourth movie I mean it just seems I mean even G even Ghostbusters like why not come out with another Ghostbusters based off the new movie just lean just lean into IPS yeah I I'm trying to think of like you know Mandalorian Mandalorian that pin I think has only the first season in it and there's been what two or three more but but has one and two got two seasons but it doesn't have all of it like that's what I'm saying it's like there's another there was a whole season that came out after the game came out they're not gonna make and that's always gonna happen but I see I mean I see what you're saying but I know the way that they coded the way that they coded stranger things with the whole left side of the Playfield being season one and the whole right side of the Playfield being season two I mean they really leaned into season one season two they've hurt themselves on there's really no easy way to add more right no and I just I think as it is if stranger things come comes out as a vault I don't think it's going to do great I think it'll do decent MH it'll I mean and that's about it I don't think all of a sudden it's just going to set the world on fire or anything I I just don't think it will I know I have a stranger things up for sell right now and I think I'm going to end up having to price a pro right at $88,000 with the UV kit and with the uh topper yeah on it as well so I mean yeah these pins were going for pretty good value before I think if you come out with a pro version I don't think it's going to do great I think you have to come out with the premium yeah Ive units I completely agree I don't think Stern should make the pro at all I mean I don't I don't I don't see the demand there it's the premium that people want or some sort of vaulted Le or something I I don't know Travis is gone and um yeah I I don't know I I do think um I mean maybe that's another question um you know before we get to Venom we're just going to keep pushing that back is is you know is there you said this if if if stranger things came out right now it wouldn't light the like the world on fire is there a pinball machine that could come out right now that would light the world on fire like is is the market in a spot where there is a pinball machine that would sell out immediately three of them Mario into spiderverse South Park Harry Potter Harry Potter I think yeah that I mean that goes without saying oh oh okay excuse me four of them four of them four of them four of them so it's really that's I mean everything you said is just theme it's just theme it doesn't matter who's making it I mean I know Ellen is rumored you're already seen oh sweet baby Jes sorry my wife she just came back from book club she's obviously been into the wine she she just came into the studio yeah I'm recording yeah just hand her the headset yeah just hand her the headset we can talk to her for five minutes it'll be great she just came right in just walking in as if I'm just here just sitting here just staring at a camera for no reason she's about to start talking and everything okay sorry Joel got life no I was uh hi Monica you can say yeah um what was I saying I was saying Harry Potter no Keith Owen so it's like obviously you're in you don't care what the next game is from Keith Elwin Keith Elwin a Keith Elwin game is bigger than the theme in your world that's but that's you as a pinball buyer as a pinball player it's everything you just said was themes those are the trust that he will put out a game that's going that's going to be enjoyable that's what I can trust I can trust the rules are going to be something that's enjoyable I can trust the shots are going to be fun the efficiency percentage is high with that one so that's good I mean that's a good solid trust Factor but I think besid it's like so it seems like elwin has that ability but everybody else or every other pin the only way it's going to sell out day one side unseen at this point in this market is if it's a killer theme that's your thought in the market today yeah yeah it'll have to be a theme the market today yes I I think Fu Fighters was the last gasp of everybody that would rush out and get something I I think obviously what Jack put out was unique and I think that there is a lot more people that want upto-date themes when it comes to the quote unquote dad Rock and we had talked about that plenty of time before I think that that's severely underrated by a lot of people they don't realize how popular some of that is but at the same time I think that if Stern or anybody else leans into music themes that are a little bit more mainstream of today I think it would do well if you do a hip hop pin I think it would do fairly well I think if you do a Taylor Swift pin it would do well stuff like that I think that if you get away from doing the stuff from the 70s and and all that yeah I think those themes would do well today but it's just it's a different Market too currently right now so just because you come out with what should be a dynamite theme doesn't necessarily mean that it will sell out I think in the past a lot of people were okay with doing pre-orders getting on list so on and so forth but now I don't know there just seems to be a lot of pullback from that and I think that's due to a lot of variables a lot of factors whether it's pricing whether it's allocation whether it's just there's so many different options out there or whether just the general cost of living has gone up for everybody that people are just making better decisions I guess so to say or just different decisions in terms of what they're paying for in their daily lives so I mean it's just hard to say but I think that there's only a handful of themes and the themes that we went through today those four themes those are the only ones that I would truly be confident in that if I knew that those were the ones coming out that it would do Gang Busters sure and I get it I mean Harry Potter is one of them obviously and then we've talked about video game themes whether it's Mario or maybe even a Zelda or Pokemon like those are those are the types of things that I I agree could sell out super fast um I also feel there are some vaults you know if they did a Lord of the Rings Vault or a Tron Vault I do think those could sell out super fast I mean maybe I'm Maybe I'm Wrong maybe maybe Lord of the Rings would be on I think I think Tron does I don't think Lord of the Rings does I think Tron I was going to say the opposite I I just I just don't think Lord of the Rings quite has it anymore the way it is now that they came out with that show that was on Amazon that just got slammed Ring of Fire to death yeah ring of power ring of fire we don't know the name yeah R power I just think something like Tron you could just do a lot more with that nowaday just in terms of the music the light show oh what if they Tron vaed with expression lighting exactly I think that's exactly what I was getting to there's just there's a little bit more uniqueness that you could get to with that all right well yep put off Venom long yeah I've put off Venom off Venom long enough so we're gonna we're going to talk about it this way we're going to talk about um we're going to start with Tom and Tom's experience on Venom because he's actually has the least amount of play compared to the two of us so I'm curious Tom great Charles playing it man Tom you were the first you were the first of us actually to play it because um uh up at District 82 Trent with what tilt amusements had brought one just to let you guys play around on and you actually moved your streaming rig over it and and streamed I remember watching you play like ball and you did a lot in that one ball I mean it was that was a premium right yeah I had no idea what I was doing so what's tell us about that Tom I mean your initial Impressions you step up the game you obviously saying you had no idea what you're doing no idea what I was doing but how did it feel you know you still put up over a billion though right yeah it shot great but but the shots are like really wide open for the most part like I I didn't think there was a tough shot on the game yeah you know and that's one of my reasons why I'm not buying one um I I don't know I just uh you know first first impressions was it just shot a little too easy for me um but obviously that can change with game setups and things like that and actually the Tilt was really tight on that game too um but you know I I think some of the I I don't understand the code at this point so I'm going to go out to locations and play the crap out of it so I can get a feel for the game and um I don't know I I just I don't have I don't have a big opinion of it just because of my limited experience with the game what about fast locks you were remember I I don't I really don't care for them I don't think they're like this great I know we kind of talked about this before but I don't think they're this like exciting feature of the game okay um I think the captive ball like hitting the what is it the uh Carnage carage yeah I said it I had to think for a second do you like that tone Tom that you get you know when when either of us ask question that Travis feels is so OB got finish it he's got a he's got that tone you know Carnage you know just and just making sure I'm on Tom's side here I'm part part of that is I just don't know the Venom lore that that well like Travis does no I was just calling Travis a douche that's all but you know um what the hell were we talking about no we're talking about we're talking about Carnage yeah yeah so so I thought the the Carnage Mech was cool um but you know and the doable ganger was okay but I mean that to me that was the game MH and I didn't think it was that big of part of the game now obviously there's a ton of code into the game but I was literally just shooting you know oh this shot's purple I'm going to shoot this and this shot's blue and this shot's yellow so I'm going to shoot that because it's lit I I had absolutely no direction on what what I was doing I was literally jolling the game yeah you had a great time and I did I had fun well good no I I remember you um you played it I remember we were messaging you in Facebook and you're like and hey how was it and you're like had no idea like that was your thing like no idea what I was doing and what do you think of fast locks you know it's just kind of it seemed like a very lukewarm yeah First Impressions is is lukewarm you maybe if I play it 50 times I'll I'll be like hey this game's awesome you know but just not there yet what you're saying Travis is it milk milk toast is that you're saying milk toast milk toast milk toast sounds like Tom's going to give it a milk toast rating milk toast is lukewarm right like that's pretty bland is that the is that what we're going for there y I still don't get it but warm just listen to the first 20 minutes of this episode you'll get it that was oh man man a month a month of not recording wasn't long enough that's what I'm that's what I'm feeling right about now no apparently people miss this apparently people miss this it's crazy um I don't know do you want to talk Travis youve I'll let you go you want talk about I'll bring it up I'll bring it up you try Travis you've you have a pro in your house right you've been um no it wasn't in your house I thought you work it's at work yeah it's at it's at my work at the studio got it okay so you've actually done a bunch of filming on it you've really dove into the game you've asked me a ton of questions which I think is hilarious I think it's really funny that the way that you had to learn how to play the game was by watching my stream My Stream which was a joy I know I tell cruel and unusual punishment you got paid to do it my God got paid by the company you work for to watch me stream and explain to you how to play a game tell us more you want me to tell you more about that experience was it like was it like the water boy no I think oh my gosh Tom I it had cross my mind that even during work hours maybe I need to break out the bottle of Jack just to get through it say okay here's what's going on your message group to us and loser like hell has frozen over because I am being paid to watch Joel play I had so it was funny because I had all this content that I needed to make and I wanted to make but I hadn't got to play it yet so I wanted to know what I was going to get myself into right and so I first went to go watch Tom play and then I kept in mind that Tom had said that he didn't know what he's doing and so of course when I watched him I was like okay yeah that checks out but even though he's still getting through the game I was like well I need to find something out there to where it's kind of showing me what to do and then I realized I was like wait you did a stream with Dwight I was like surely that'll make sense oh yeah yeah it's you know you came to a Venom expert you know to see yeah why not high level pinball player well you get past watching all the posts get hit yeah you can definitely they don't those don't score points I don't get it why the post don't score points yet I don't understand but yeah you turn to my stream and you learned you learned everything everything you need to know oh yeah totally totally fullon expert after that for sure we had a guy comment on our stream he said I had to turn it off after 15 minutes why please fliping out get better players to show off your game that was a comment that was on the YouTube video I have a streaming rig right here if if you're a distributor yeah my Joel my heart so I had this I had I had Venom and and huge shout out to to Dwight Dwight zin the the lead lead coder the lead design not Designer but the lead software lead on the game um he's he's watched a lot of the streams and whatnot and he had reached out to me and he's like whenever you stream this I'd love to be on it and I asked well do you want to be on audio and he's like sure let's do it and he was awesome he was awesome to have awesome to answer questions and um he was incredibly informative on how to play the game I would say that is one thing that is tough there's once you understand the basic structure of the game the lights actually tell you what to do pretty well until you wrap your head around that it's really hard to understand what you're doing yeah and we can break that down actually very easily so I'll say this I'll I'll back up a little bit here playing it I think the game itself it's fun for what it is you know the rules are what they are I don't know if I'm on board yet with not having any traditional modes so to speak you still have your boss battles once you get to a certain level if I say Travis you're fun for what you are is that a compliment you know Joel I've taken that compliment for nearly 20 years of marriage so you know it is what it is okay so the game's fun for what it is we'll just roll that sorry go ahead well so what I'm trying to what I'm wrapping my mind around is that like Tom said all right I'll just come out and say that to me in my opinion this game is probably the easiest playing game that I can remember Stern coming out with well yeah Joel's done pretty well yeah even Joel's scored a billion on it I believe right Joel I've scored a billion and I've beaten I've beaten all but I will put the caveat with that most likely that has to by Design because of the XP system wanting people to get through the game so that's what I'm saying it's that it's fun for what it is I went into it knowing that so for me what I found to be the most fun part of the game is the speedruns I I think the idea of figuring out how to beat a game as fast as possible and try to figure out the shortest path try to figure out what's going to give you the XP exploits or the fastest XP possible or the most efficient XP to me I enjoy that aspect of it more than anything so I think because of that I can kind of look past the lack of modes early on as opposed to just the boss battles but yeah I think like you were mentioning Joel if you can wrap your mind around the Combos and everything then you're good to go I will say my two sons who are 12 and 13 they played it and they loveed the game to death the idea of an XP system they are thrilled with it my 13-year-old he wants to play this game all the time he's been asking me to take him up to work to go play Venom he's even asked for a Venom to come at the house and I've had to tell him like whoa whoa we have we have Jurassic Park we have Godzilla we have Walking Dead I need you to calm down right now but yeah he's he's wanting a Venom so but how much xp is is in those three games zero is the answer yeah yeah yeah Venom so you know it I think the game is fun when you look at it from that perspective but I think you can find fun in nearly any pinball machine there is so but if you are playing Venom and you're trying to figure out what's going on the easiest way to play it is you just simply follow the colors it's all you do so if you see yellow you hit yellow what you're that color blind what if you're color so then you're screwed you're screwed you need to go play foosball or something because you're not going to survive Venom you just hit everything I want to just to clarify the color thing is when you look at your grid when you pick when you pick a host there's going to be a vertical column that you are selecting and in that vertical column there are three lights a yellow a white and a blue and you have to light those yellow light blue in that order okay yellow blue white so you those that's your column and so for you to battle your first guy you have to do those three lights and those three lights the way you do those Dwight calls them mini modes but the reality is it's a combo shot it's just a two shot combo and he calls them Mini modes so like if you want to light yellow you look at the Playfield there will be a light that is solid yellow you hit that as soon as you hit that now there will be another light somewhere else that is a flashing yellow shot you have to then hit the flashing yellow shot if you do that solid yellow then flashing yellow boom you lit your light and you have to do the same thing solid blue flashing blue solid white flashing white you do those you light your three lights now you've completed that column do you have to do that in order no you can do that in any order and that's the thing when it's flashing if it's a flashing light it's a timed light it will dra it will time out eventually and then you just hit the solid one again to Rel light it once you do that ladder is as long as you're at 10 XP or higher 10 levels 10 levels or higher then you can battle that character and that's what I was going to say too that's it's funny because it points this out on the LCD and it doesn't say this in the rules PDF because it firmly establishes it wants you to know that these are mini modes but yet it'll say I think it says the the minor boss's name and then combo on the LCD so it might say Riot combo or Agony combo or agage combo something like that so if you can look at the grid and you don't think of it as just those three lights you think of it as four lights because you're going to qualify that minor boss and that's what we went back and forth on Joel cuz I I couldn't get that across my mind for the longest time because I'm like well I got to get to level 10 how you know what's going to happen here it says I qualified but yet I can't fight him yet so basically you hit the three combos you have that minor boss qualified until Level 10 so it's almost just like you get them loaded up and then if you get to level 10 and you're still that character y that you are for that grid so for instance the very first line is Eddie next one's Flash the third one's Gwyn the fourth one's Peter so whichever character you are then you're going to qualify that minor boss's combos ESS right and that makes up the mini mod so what's interesting though is and I remember asking Dwight this it's like theoretically you could complete that path those three mini modes in six shots like you hit the solid you hit the Blinky you do that for three colors even faster because you can do a super skill shot and spot a mini mode yep there is a skill shot so when you go to plunge the ball the right flipper is going to select your host the left flipper is going to select your skill shot one of them is it's a hurry up to hit a shot and it'll spot you in mini mode but um each each host has different perks so if you want to get into multiball Quick you pick Eddie because two locks are lit automatically but then there's I mean every character has perks we we don't have to go through them all it says it on the LCD but what happens so what happens if you plunge the ball you're at level one you hit your six shots just magically boom boom boom boom boom you've completed your path you may be at that point level two XP well you're stuck you can't battle the guy because you're not at 10 so what do you do on the left ramp the the change host button is there you can hit that and then it'll allow you to select a different character so you can start the path for your next character um and if you end up doing the two paths next to each other then that's how you get all four corners of a square and that's how you get certain perks that are right there in the middle of the grid there are six available perks so there's some planning there on basically building up your character building up your perks um and you have to just do that you have to focus on Mini modes until you get to level 10 how else can you increase your levels multiball so you have Mayhem multiball and you have Carnage multiball Carnage you just hit Carnage Target a whole bunch once you do that once you push them all the way back then you hit the center ramp otherwise Mayhem multiball deals with those locks and there's multiple ways to lock the ball and those are in the fast locks multiball is going to start automatically when you lock two balls you have to hold the center button to hold your multiball and you can let that build all the way up to a six ball multiball but I remember asking that to Dwight I'm like well once I complete my path if I'm not at level 10 what do I do and he's like you just have to keep gaining experience so keep playing the game keep trying to complete your paths your mini modes or play multiball and you'll work your way up with experience up to level 10 and as soon as you do that then as long as you're in a character with a completed path you can battle the first guy and once you battle the first guy let's say you get through it well what's the next step you have to battle grindle but to get to grindle you have to be level 20 so it's a lot more just playing the game to build your levels up and that's something that is it's very interesting to me because this is the first game where multiball to me has always been a crutch that I can bring into a mode where it's like I W to beat you know Godzilla I want to beat whatever Rodan not Rodan you don't fight him I want to beat Titanosaurus well if I'm gonna before I play him let me go ahead and start him and then start a multiball and now I have a multiball in this mode you don't have that in venom like the mini modes the battles they're separate from multiball so multiball why are you shaking your head you can't you remember what's on the fast locks okay okay yes so the there's another thing it's actually you have a complete crutch cuz you can play your multiball so this every time you get a jackpot you beat one of the minor bosses yeah this isn't want you to I don't love that because this is another thing the fast on the fast locks themselves there are three perks and so if you the first two perks are the first two villains or the first two minor bosses so you could get into your two ball multi and if you hit every shot on the play field and then hit a jackpot it gives you it you automatically beat that first so it's like you just skipped a whole mode now what's tough about it though it's not worth very much early on I've seen the scores are kind of a little bit all over the place but I've seen some pretty massive scores if somehow you can hold off on some of the on fighting some of the guys later on it could be worth 300 400 million as opposed to getting 10 million well finishing them but it just depends how you want to approach the game too so if the idea is with a speedrun this is Travis when to get all the way to null as quickly as possible where there's going to be a I'm assuming there's a point or a lull so it's you can quickly complete your mini modes your your path you can do that just a few shots especially if you spot one and then you're saying you get into multiball and if you do multi play multiball right you can beat a minor villain in multi you you'll be close to level 20 when you come out come multiball if you have okay but then you beat grindle so grindle's at level 20 but when you're done with grindle typically what level are you at um I've been as low as 23 when I started so I think I was probably mid 20s at that point 26 maybe 27 you're at 26 but you can't do anything until you get to 30 to fight null and ging levels at that higher TI mul just another multiball more lock more combos yep combos locks m ball grind it out then Tom is holding his hand Tom has something to say um how do you light your locks combos you complete mini hitting comos comos yep so what happens for your very first one right unless you're so some of the characters too besides just Edie you have one lock lit I think the only one where you don't have any locks lit is Flash I think that's the only one so Gwen and Peter have one lock and Eddie has two but the way it works is is typically your very first lock you need one combo second lock you need two combos third lock on you need at least three combos okay now just there this is the this is the confusing part is we are saying combos because they are it is a two ball combo but it says it on the LCD screen it sayson combo or but that's what's tough is there's a whole another combo thing there are character the signature combos there are lights on the Playfield that are webs and they say combo it's something totally different than the mini modes that we're discussing right right so you can continually light your locks as long as you're hitting combos yes they'll stack well yes and no you have to get past a minor boss first you can only play Mayhem once okay before that otherwise you could just keep spamming it over and over again and what about Carnage though Carnage is so that's the tough one I've I've played I think maybe one or two Carnes per game so I think you got to Loop all the way back around to it I don't know what I do know is like the second level of car Carnage right uh well it goes Carnage Carnage H or it goes multiball Carnage hurry up and then blood lust blood right now they have to fix blood lust because there's a known exploit with that that you can just get billions off of just by doing Center ramp basically nearly the whole time so yeah I found that it wasn't a big deal yeah and then well the tough part is too is right now and I know that there's going to have to be some score balancing that the Carnage multiball is just the value of it compared to Mayhem it's just wayway unbalanced so if you want to absolutely destroy the game right now just make sure you have Peter as your character and whenever you start stacking everything up and you will be just shocked by the amount of points I've played Peter though what that's [ __ ] Spider-Man [ __ ] because Peter makes basically Carnage is easier to start I think it only takes three hits to the cap the ball in order to light it on the center ramp and then the Carnage points in multiball are worth a whole lot more H so I I've done some Stacks to where I have 1.2 to 1.4 billion out of Carnage and less than 150 million in Mayhem and they're stacked together you're play yeah you're play you can play both at the same time and that's that it to me it's just I'm just saying this game I I have looked at this game totally different than any other pinball machine I've ever played like I just look at it as a journe actually looked at the rules I well yes I've learned the rules but I'm I'm All About That in game like I the reason I want to beat null because I want to unlock another character and I want to have another character to play and have fun with and I and it's just totally different this is a game I will be honest I've played this game more in the week that I've had it than any other game that Zach's let me borrow like every other game that that he's let me borrow I'll play it one or two nights before I stream just because I don't want to look totally dumb I want to try to find the shots but then I I kind of want to discover the game though on stream and and it's almost like I don't want to get bored of the game or I don't want to do too much with the game off stream like I just play a lot of typically I don't play a ton but this game because I know every game I play on it when I'm logged in with Insider connected I am I'm just improving my character I'm just imp like benefiting what I'm doing so even I streamed it last night it was Wednesday but I played it Tuesday night for a little while just because I wanted to build up my character before I started to stream and so for me all I'm caring about is building my character and what's odd is the multiball like all I'm trying to do is complete my modes all I'm trying to do is beat get to my battles like multiball feels almost like a distraction for me because I don't care about the points it's just like oh I'm in multiball so I just don't it's it's not I know Tom I know it's it's a crazy thing what what are you what are you using your multiball for I'm not that's the thing I'm not using it really at all and I understand you're saying you can use the Mayhem multiball to give you the battles but I don't want like I actually you can do more than that with it though okay the M the Mayhem multiball what else can you use it can give you four battles it can give you a Playfield multiplier and it gives you XP and what else two times XP one times Playfield four battles what are you you can you can do the uh doppelganger infected well but but those don't like I don't need to do doppelganger to battle null like that's what you do it gives you XP need to build up the XP everything in the game builds up but what builds up XP it's either doing all those very specific things in the game to build it up quickly like you're trying to do to do a speed run or just keep playing the game just keep that's what I'm saying that's why you use your multiball here I'll tell you exactly what to do with multiball okay exactly what to do you're going to thank me for this CU you're going to go play the game well yeah of course I mean yeah somebody some great philosopher told us that before that strategy that's the technique that's how you get that GC so legitimately I can't I can't listen to in your camera out well this this will make sense okay I don't know who I'm your conscience right now here we go Joel I'm your conscience I need to take a medication all right so if you look at the Playfield this will make total sense okay and you do this while you're in multiball especially if you're in Mayhem if you look at the captive ball what is there at the captive ball Carnage right there's also an infected yes so you hit that twice you'll get infected look at the scoop there's two Targets there what are those targets for infected infected so what you can do if you just go Hog Wild and just Spam that the whole entire time you're going to build up your infected you're going to get the doppelganger quickly you're going to get the Rampage pretty quick and that's going to give you loads of XP you're going to build up a lot and then every single time you miss those two Targets you hit the scoop what's it doing it's coming back on the fast lock y it's going through an in Lane so you're going to light your Mysteries a lot quicker you're going to get all the above for more XP for for everything so there's just certain tactics that you can do even while in multiball that may not be just getting a jackpot because I think even the jackpots give you what 40 XP or somewhere right around there so yeah it's a bit of a grind but I haven't but that's what's interesting is I I understand we played pinball in a very different way but you are the way you're looking at this game you look at it from points but you're also because you're looking at the speedrun you are how do I quickly and efficiently get my my character leveled up as fast as possible I mean I'll be completely honest I have shut my brain off completely from the points because there's so many obvious unbalanced things right now it's almost that they're going to be balanced so things are going to change so there's no sense in like even when I told you guys about Carnage compared to Mayhem that's going to be balanced because it has to there's just no way it can't so if you're looking at this like to me if you want to truly enjoy the game for what it is right now today look at it from the XP standpoint and figure out how can I get through my levels figure out how can I get get to the next boss so for me that that's where I'm finding the enjoyment out of the game because I don't want to sit there and just do the grindle exploit the whole time and feel awesome because I got 50 billion on it I mean it's fun the first time but then you know you don't want to do that continuously so a lot of these things will get patched up anyways but yeah I think I think it's great to look at it from the standpoint that you want to get to null eventually so you're going to do the things properly to get the null and to be leveled up high enough and so that's why if you're looking at for that perspective there's just certain tactics you can do while you have a ball save on that is a little bit different than other games that doesn't involve just spamming jackpots the whole entire time because you do need to defeat a doppelganger because what happens when you do Carnage in Mayhem and a doppelganger you like toxin teamup which can be worth pretty good XP as well how how do you do the team ups the team ups the perks or the team up that that that's a particular and the miles on the sleeper you can get if you select Flash from the beginning or you can qualify them through infect it okay and then miles you get if you pick Peter MH or four-way combat and then what is it h hybrid HB you have to beat all minor bosses yeah and he's the most powerful thing in the game cuz insanely powerful you hit the button it spots every shot on the Playfield and instantly turns on a seven times Playfield multiplier which one was hybrid hybrid hybrid okay yeah but to get him you either a get him from Mystery which is crazy I got him as a mystery award and Dwight was like whoa you got the I've haven't seen that I was like you coded it you know and he's like yeah but it's just that is extremely rare to get through mystery kind of thing and um it's super powerful I mean it's a seven times Playfield multiplier at at your button you just hit it whenever you want um and it spots every shot but what I think's crazy is hearing the way that you are looking at this game as I just want to beat it faster like beating it is not the goal it is just you want to beat it faster than you did before to me this game when it showed up on my doorstep was like okay I am confident I am going to beat this game I don't have that confidence with any other pinball machine that's dropped off at my doorstep rush I knew Cactus Canyon just because you guys and heckling and everybody saying the game's too easy I was like okay this is a game that I better I better beat or I'm I just suck and then same thing with Toy Story it's like the that was just that understanding of like I better beat this game because it's people are saying it's too easy it's too easy not to beat the game and just to clarify I beat the game because I beat 50% of it okay we're just gonna we're just gonna clear the air on that so this game though I was like Venom this is clearly a game that if I put in the time it should get me to a point where I can beat this game even if I have to I'm going to beat this game so I was expecting a grind I was expecting it to be something that I would slowly chip away at and I will tell you honestly I beat I've beat the game twice and I've owned it a week and both times because of the speedrun aspect of it the first time I beat it I was at level 45 and I my speedrun time was like an hour and 15 minutes of play time and then last night when I beat it on stream I think I was level like 41 and my my playtime counter was like an hour and two minutes of play time so it's not it's really not that much of a grind and that's that's surprising to me I was expecting it to be more and um and one of the things that was said I'm not saying that as a bad thing but in my mind it's part of those like okay over the next month I know I'm going to beat it again that means I'm going to unlock my third character and then I'm already looking at achievements there are certain achievements of like beat null with Hulk so clearly you have to unlock him but then I have to beat him again as Hulk so there's seven achievements that are beating H beating null with all seven characters so it's like well clearly I'm going to beat it seven times but these are all things like my next goal is just going to be start chipping away at achievements and that it's just a weird thing to feel like there's a chance that this is a game that I actually might complete or feel like I've actually done everything and it's because of the XP system and the fact that it holds my skill or holds my value if I don't know if that wasn't there do I think I could just start at level one and beat null in a three normal three ball game with extra balls I don't I don't necessarily think I could it would be a challenge it would be a big challenge for me to do that Tom what's up so Travis what's your speed run uh my fastest one so far is 23 minutes I think Joy got some work to do we just round up to an hour and we're basically the same time so it's but I see that but that's but I Know Travis and I our skill levels are drastically right of course but I think that's cool that the code allows something that keeps him excited and me excited with very different play Styles sure and then I think I just wish that and we kind of talked about this last podcast that the he was talking oh was he yeah he was I don't I don't want to be the guy that cut him off no I just I was just curious Travis have you completed have you finished null in like one game I finished null two and a half times in one game okay because when you beat him the game's not over starts no I understand that right yep no I yeah I played it without with a uh burner profile and I got through it two and a half times I got all the way back to grindle the third time is that Monica's profile just play no she won't let me play first but you unlock these characters like Wolverine and Hulk and stuff by beating null y okay yep and there's the thing with null there's a very specific pattern you can follow to beat him but I don't want to reveal that on the podcast I'd rather people just play it NOP I have play on their own I have a launch party probably next week so can tell me I will tell you off podcast just watch My Stream I mean I beat it I don't know if I follow trav's Dum pattern but I beat it so here's here's the thing about Venom and you guys know you we talk about pinball a lot off the podcast as well so you guys know how my mind works I like to look for sequences and patterns because if I'm going to catch a ball I want stand in a flow I want to know where to go Venom very much follows sequences down to a T and that goes for whether you're doing your mini modes whether you're doing your signature combos whether you're doing host hurry up there's a lot of things that you can keep doing and that's the thing the combos for each character they stay the same so if you hit say for instance just anybody it's left ramp right and then you hit right orbit well that shot's going to be lit again at the left ramp that same color it's not going to shift to another shot so it's very predictable in that way and if you find a combo that you're really comfortable with you could just Spam it over and over and over again to get your logs yeah and that's the one thing that you said at the beginning I feel like this is the easiest game Sterns made in a long time and sure there's speed and if you miss that Ball's coming back at you quick but the fast locks I I it reminds me of when you guys were talking about Johannes and having magnets on the flippers because it doesn't matter how he shoots he's he can get the ball under control immediately and when you look at Venom because of the fast locks there are there are so many shots on the play field that end up putting the ball in the fast lock that you actually get a very consistent feed out of those fast locks and the flippers instead of them being drooped like on on Deadpool or drooped like they were on Godzilla they're actually up more so it's a lot easier to trap up on the ball so I as a very uncontrolled player feel a lot more in control in on this game than any other game that I've had in a long time so the fact that the shots are more open and the facts that that the shots feel like you can get under control like to me it's if you're cradled up on the left flipper you can backhand that left ramp which what feeds your left flipper like in a very controlled manner because of the fast locks or same thing when you backhand the scoop with the right flipper it's going to immediately feed you right back to your and if you do it right you can just immediately cradle up and do it again and that that that feeling of control apparently this is what you guys do all the time but this is a new this is a new feeling for me and it really is neat like it's a cool baby's first ball trap yeah pretty much like baby's first cradle yeah and and it just I I enjoy it I think too the thing with the pro and I don't know how the premium plays I haven't got to play one yet but with the pro there's legitimately only one shot that you really have to be worried about and that's if you're going on the U the left side of the Horseshoe that feed comes back around and hits off the top part of the sling littley and that's the only shot that's truly semi- dangerous in the game everything else if you hit it it's going to return back to a flipper yep every single time and you know that's that's just how the game's made which is perfectly fine it's just be aware that if you're going to be playing it if you can play Under Control like any control player they're going to carve this game up and my fear is is I don't know if this game will be in tournaments in the future outside the launch parties and I don't know if it necessar neily has to be not every single game needs to be this big time Tournament game that's I think it's perfectly fine to have a pinball machine just be a pinball machine just be something that people are going to just enjoy playing so my fear is is that if people try to put this in tournaments especially high level tournaments well what happens when you do droop the flippers or you put on a tight tilt right so have you turned the fast locks off yet that's a new setting in the you can turn them off entirely I mean honestly I feel like the fast locks make it easier to play that's what I'm saying if you turn them off flow just goes so much easier it doesn't seem I mean like the first time you play it you kind of have to get your timing down but then when you get used to it yeah it's just the timing is easy to figure out just my fear is is that if some tournament director out there bastardized the game so bad that you're on level five after your first Mayhem then you got to basically just grind out you get to level 10 and those minor bosses it's not easy to beat them at level 10 level 15 it's not at all and that's on default that's what I don't that's my biggest argument right now is the fact that if you actually battle a minor Boss by hitting you know F filling out your your path and getting into the battle you're you're level 10 and you actually are just playing the boss both of them have two phases and you're what did I say wrong Travis is typing hello what what what are you typing yall froze no we're not TR Tom you there right I'm here yeah it's freaking Travis this guy this guy okay while he's trying to figure out his life um what I was saying was if you actually go down the path and play the minor Val the minor battle like the battles are hard there's a lot of shots that are needed and there's two phases to it like it's a lot of shots to beat that first that minor villain or that minor battle if if you actually play it but if you go through the multiball like he's saying and you just happen to hit every shot on the Playfield and hit one Super Jackpot boom you just beat it that I don't like I don't like that I don't like that it just seems like it's way easier you can just avoid an entirely hard battle or an entirely hard mode by just hitting what do you want Travis Travis do you hear us yet are you there he said everybody froze on my screen I know but now he's typing is he just being Travis this is why this is the problem people this is the problem with the listen I don't know if he's just messing with us or if he's actually having a problem but I don't know I say we just keep going I say we keep going or we do I try to pause it for him what do you think listeners write us at triple gmail.com should we just talk through technical difficulties time to go to viewer questions try to go well we're missing Travis oh Travis yeah Travis said he cannot hear us at all all right I'm gonna pause this sorry listeners hopefully this is a seamless transition we'll see how this goes okay oh I we're back we're back uh I don't know if Travis did anything wrong but he was frozen and we kept talking and um so we're just you know how yep we're here we're here sorry I got a call from loser kid I had to pick it up J all right what we were talking about this is seamless for for all the listeners what we were talking about is my current complaint with Venom is um the battles the battles um are pretty hard uh especially at lower levels and you said that like you have to be at level 10 to do the first minor villain and if you get into that battle it's a two-phase battle and there's a lot of shots you have to hit it's timed so if you run out of time you lose the battle and you got to do your mini modes again to get back into it but it's a decent bit of work to actually get through that battle you compare that D to Mayhem multiball you lock a ball you get in all you have to do is hit seven seven shots and you hit a jackpot and boom you're spotted the battle and I don't like that like I think it's a very like clearly the way to do it is to have a really good Mayhem multiball and you can skip all those battles or you really only have to do one battle to get past that increment that level well and that's what they want you to do they want you to get past that battle and then get on the grindle I mean I've I've lost to the minor boss is at level 30 possible to do so so that's but what if instead and I'm not I mean maybe maybe I'll tell Dwight but maybe instead of giving you the whole battle it it just like gives you a phase like it it it gives you the first phase of the battle because they're two phases so it's like don't give me the whole battle but make it so that when I get into it because you did well in the multiball it just makes that battle easier or it takes away a phase you already start at phase two you know sometime I just don't I just think there's just a very big difference between getting a jackpot in a multiball versus actually having to focus in on that battle hit the specific shots some of the battles the shots are roaming some of the shots are moving back and forth I mean it's just it's a very different thing that you have to do with one ball that's very challenging verse a multiball where it's just hit every shot and then hit a jackpot right well I I would say keep in mind too that most likely that that rule is in there obviously with the way that the fast locks are if you look at the pictures with the minor bosses on them it was meant for to be this way yeah from a very early stage and I would say that they very much want you to get through the game get the grindle get the null then on top of that it makes it easier to get the hybrid too to get to your 7x to in order to defeat all four bosses because if you have to play all four bosses on their own that's going to be awfully hard to beat all four bosses unless you're well leveled up you're not going to do it at a low level but if you if you look at Foo Fighters right what if Foo Fighters if you had a really good Overlord multiball it just automatically spots you three cities like I don't right but these aren't mod though keep that in mind these are battles Joel but the battles are the closest things to the modes that you have in the game and that that to me is the that's where I'm getting the most fun in the game is I enjoy the way it shoots I enjoy the way it makes me feel because I actually feel like a pretty good player with the control that I have behind this and I really do the animations the sound package is really good like I'm having a lot of fun with the game but where I'm enjoying like the moments people ask that where are the moments in the game the moments are in the battles the battles feel like a moment because it gets a little tense it gets very serious you got to focus I mean grindle's a lot of fun NL is a lot of fun those are where it's that's where I'm having the most fun and if you're telling me all of a sudden your multiball skips half of that I don't want to skip it that's where the Fun's at Tom I think what I'm hearing here is Joel's saying to Dwight I want you to code this differently I want different rules this isn't what I want Dwight I'm here well I don't know I I'm just it's this is this game and multi beat multiball D Darren Mayhem how many bosses two before so 50% I think that's fine I think getting through 50% is fine it's hard enough to get three of them because you got to go through all the jackpots three separate times and hit everything a lot I think getting 50% of the way through is fine because then you're going to move on to another character anyways right and then you're going to decide whether or not you're going to fight what battle you want to fight at that point okay yeah I it's it's just it is such a unique experience and and um I I had a buddy of mine shout out Sterling with um balls of steel not foret getting that again um he had reached out and he he was curious you know you've had ven him a little while now what are your thoughts and and I truly I think this is an incredible location pin and the reason I say that is because of the XP system and the leveling up system there's no reason why you wouldn't put a few games on the game every time you go to the bar like might as you might as well you might you might as I mean maybe for you guys because Travis can beat null two and a half times in one game but for me that it's going to take multiple games to get all the way up there might as well like I'm going to go ahead and play the game you know one or two times and even if all I do is walk away with 10 or 15 XP from that experience like that's fine it'll start me off in a better position next time I hit start um and I really enjoy that like I just that's pulling me back in and I'm really enjoying unlocking characters because Hulk is a totally different experience Wolverine I was having a lot of fun with him last night because Wolverine he he's really hard to kill in the comics so his perk is extra long ball save like way longer ball save and that's a lot of fun like there are some really cool things that this unlocks and I'm I'm I'm really drawn in to keep playing this game and it's only 0.91 and I'm very curious to see what else they come out with because um now I this is a question for Travis the the end all Beall wizard mode is the what is it it's the planet clintar clintar I think that's how you pronounce yeah clintar multiball which is kind of like Cal tur like there's seven things you have to do seven or eight and um one of them is you have to beat n so is that have you been anywhere close to that uh yeah so I don't know quite what's going on because I know for a fact I've done everything it's asked me to do on one of my profiles but it's acting as if I don't have one of them completed so I don't know if it's a bug I don't know if I just got to go back and do it again I have no idea but I know I'm on one of them I'm only one away from finishing I yeah and that's something you can do in in well no cuz the moment you do null it wipes out all your other progress like saved progress so the game that you you said you've beat null in two and a half two and a half times in one game that was the one yeah in a perfect world you'd beat null in ball one and then you can spend balls balls two and three or your extra balls trying to pick away all the other crap to to get to that multiball but you better do it that game because as soon as like you're wiped out all this all your progression is wiped out after you do null I just know during that game it did not let me well I doubt it's I doubt I don't know I yeah I'm not sure why happened I'd have to just try it without the glass crap are we Frozen again no it's just you okay just you and your camera good so I don't know I mean that's a weird that's a weird thing about Venom I I just um at the end of the day I mean it's 0.91 code there's a lot more to flush out uh Dwight is incredibly good with with the the uh the choreography or this like the the way the I I've really enjoyed the light show I really like the sound package four different sound packages based on your character I really like the options like it's a joy to stream it's a joy to stream because I can attack it so many different ways I can pick different characters every time I hit start I'm either starting with new character I'm building up my XP and I'm getting a little further what do you want Travis I just thought of something for a question for Tom because he's the only one that's played a premium out of us did you notice the shots changing at all did that affect the game for you like at all or was it just kind of something that you're just like okay okay it's just another fure see I I can't wait to play a premium because the right now when you change host on a pro all all it's really changing are your perks and it's changing where the combos or the mini modes are that's really all it's changing but the idea that the the the the Playfield is actually changing so that my shots will be more difficult or whatever like I'm I'm looking forward to that to try to strategize the best way to attack it um because yeah certain certain the way that the ball feeds is going to be totally different depending on what character and I'm I'm look I'm really looking forward to that so my for listeners that are in on an Le if this is a theme you're you're looking forward to I think it's going to be a ton of fun when you get your Le and what how different the game's going to feel depending on your character um but it just this game feels totally different I mean we made a comment early on that Rick and Morty is just it's its own thing it's very unique it's you know accept it for what it is that's kind of where I'm at with Venom it is a very unique thing and I'm really enjoying it um but this whole XP system I'm loving it but it makes me wonder you know okay Foo Fighters if Foo Fighters had XP so every single time I hit start it's like well I beat those two cities last time I played so now I'm only one city away from DC or whatever it's like if every game had this type of this Save State kind of progression thing yeah then you theoretically could see the end of every game and is that necessarily something I want in pinball not necessarily because I like the challenge of having to do it all in one game but with that said I I am I am having a lot of fun with this even though I've seen everything in the game at this point that's coded in it but I'm looking forward to doing it again so I I don't know I I'm that's where I'm at I'm enjoying it like this is this game is for watching this the initial stream and the initial pictures I thought the game looked kind of bare I thought it would be kind of boring the shot layout but the actual shooting of it's a lot of fun and I it makes me feel like I'm a decent player and I really enjoy theol contr aspect but the code that Dwight's given in and the many different options that you can take and the ways to tackle it um keeps pulling me back in so I'm I'm having a lot of fun there you go there's my super long-winded review you like Venom that's that's what you're trying to say I'm enjoying it and my brother that's one thing that I think is funny my brother made the comment he thinks it's better than Foo Fighters like my brother really is having fun on Venom and what's funny is he's currently level like 18 or 19 and he still hasn't beaten him minor V villain because the mini modes the combos are challenging for him to get through that how many games have you guys played I mean we streamed it twice and every time we stream it's two hours so I mean that kind of gives you an idea too and I think a large part of it so when we talk about beating null quickly and all this and that just I would tell the listeners to keep in mind that there's VAR degrees of skill out there for pinball players right you have your just god tier s tier players like eer and z zmac and Johannes yeah well the thing is is that if you take highle players and you put them on a default pen they're going to see the wizard mode fairly quickly that's that's just the way it is but the large majority of players out there are average to below average players there's a lot of people that collect pinball machines that are casual to the point that they won't see all the features on their game no matter how long they have I've had to explain to people that there's a diverter on their Rush Le that they've had for over a year and a half so and that you know that's perfectly fine it's not everybody gets into pinball to know every single little Nuance of a game and know all the rules and be elite level with their flipper skills so on and so forth I know I play Xbox video games all the time it's not like I'm going to go play MLG and go do Call of Duty against n shot or somebody like that you know so I think something like the XP system I think is cool for those players overall and there's a lot of those players out there so I think when people start discovering this game on location they're going to find oh this is different this is interesting I'm seeing different parts of the game that I haven't got to see with other other games before and we talked about this a couple podcasts ago I personally would like to see an XP system across the board I think it would look cool but at the same time I do respect that the individ ual software people that are associated with different games they may not want that with with their game they may have a totally different vision of it but I do think that if a manufacturer was able to adopt this across the board to enable people to know that when they're getting a game they could play through it eventually they'll eventually get to see the endgame to it without it just being an option at the start button just to skip everything so something in that is pretty cool cool for people to know that they can hit start they can play the game and then they will see a wizard mode on it and not just a mini wizard mode they'll see the very end of the game and I something like that I think is unique and I can tell for my kids that's something that they're firmly interested in like I have a 12-year-old that plays and he can make it to a couple of wizard modes on certain games but my 13-year-old he's hardly ever plays but this game he wants to play all the time because he's thinking to himself I can actually see the end of the game yeah so something like that an extreme casual like that yeah I think that'll be a big deal for people and I'm interested to see how that plays out when these launch parties go off in mid October and people start seeing this game more and more I'm curious to see what that does for it yeah and that's that's something my I said my brother he's he's been he's technically played it almost as much as I had and you know I've beaten all twice and he has gotten into like last night he got into a battle and he was one shot away from finishing the battle but like it was you could tell he was into it he was into it it was a rush like he's he's ready though but what's cool is like he can get back to that point and he'll be more experienced than before so that battle is going to be a little easier like that's something that I'm excited to see Jared over the over the course of me owning this game he's gonna work his way up and hopefully get all the way to null and to see that satisfaction when he hits that final blow is going to be really really cool and um that's something I mean that's you don't get there's no other pin like that that's going to right give some some player that type of thing Tom when are you going to go play Venom next um I saw mccardy putting up some scores putting them on Facebook probably probably next week sometime okay good you got to defend the honor of our podcast yeah it's triball damn I think it just says a lot though about the game because yeah the fact that Travis you're enjoying it for I enjoy the speed you're enjoying the speedrun aspect of it like that is unique you enjoy it for what it is and well because like I said it's something different to where if I try to speedrun Planet X I'm going to f that up so many times that it's just going to drive me insane and that's why I was even asking you Joel that is there any way because I was trying to figure this out if I know that I messed up my speedrun I just wipe out all my progress and start from the beginning and right now it's not in the game I think something like that probably coming at some point I hope it is cuz the speedrun aspect of it is pretty cool and I think that's something that people could go to an arcade and take $10 and say I'm going to go for a legit speedrun on this game and grind it out you can do that that is entirely possible there's an achievement on there for 35 minutes to get gold so I will tell you you know half shell challenge which is a speedrun mode within turtles that that challenge I played the heck out of that until until I got under 100 seconds because that was a goal and I can see this being the same thing I find a speedrun in my mind a whole lot more um entertaining than just to to set a bigger GC you know like there's I don't know that's just me so I'm excited I I love that Stern gave Dwight the freedom to to explore this Avenue I'm excited to see where this goes the whole progress or XP system you know or level system and and how it's built into a pin um so overall I'm I'm just I'm very I'm I'm really enjoying this game I'm really enjoying this game and I'm excited to play it while I have it and um we'll see we'll see you know when it leaves if that's something like crap I miss that I miss having that or if this is just the the beginning or the first of Min games here on out that are going to have some sort of experience or level type system so I think that was a pretty good coverage of our Venom experience so far um but yeah that was thing one on our list right yeah our list is gone because we had to restart um I think thing two was tournament talk was that right going off yes that was well yeah we we've played some tournaments recently Joel have you played any pinball tournaments uh nope still haven't that's a no um haven't haven't done that um I know it's been a while since we recorded so we can start with uh well Travis I know you went to Seattle I know that was a thing yep went to Seattle and I ended up taking seventh it would have been fifth but zmac screwed me over by beating me on the very last game zmac I swear world champion anything that um stood out you know to you or uh uh I mean I would say that was my first time to ever be in Washington so the Carl Weathers was awesome I like the the huge ass trees that's different you don't see those in Oklahoma or Missouri for that yeah you know so that was fun it was different though we played a uh Papa C card format but it was two cards so for those that don't know that's where you play five games and you have to play all the games in a row and they all go onto one card we had to do that twice and you can play as many cards as you want but oddly enough it actually made it easier to qualify it just felt easier compared to something like indis to where if you mess up even once you're just fully screwed you said play it twice are you playing 10 games in a row or you just you you five games in a that you qualify you can have two okay yeah your two best cards so I can play 10 cards and whatever is my two best cards got it okay do you know what a curred is Joel I do I remember I've that's what he just explained a little bit where it's you have bring Joel to indisk with us one day consistency that's the main thing of it's not a pump and dump where you're just like let me work on my my one score on one game and just try to keep going no you you do pumping but you don't do any dumping if you dump then you're voiding req new card yeah you don't want to do that cuz each card is $20 or something like that but no it was a lot of fun anybody that is into tournament pinball I would say check out the Northwest pinball championships up there in Seattle it's uh the prize pools were huge too which was awesome I mean it was something like 3,000 some OD dollars for first place and I think I got 600 or 700 for taking fifth through eth so definitely was pretty good prize pulls out there and nice people as well great Community just a lot of fun cool and then I know Tom you recently just last weekend played at kelin I know that was a you qualified High I remember going into watching it going into finals you were you were in a good spot you had a buy and and all that stuff and I tanked you tanked no I mean there were a lot of good players there uh but uh I I I really started out my playoff run bad I took two last um on my first two games and uh I ended up winning the Sega Godzilla game not not the stern Godzilla game and uh had a tiebreaker with Bill Mason and the tiebreaker was on Rush and so you would thought I would have won it but uh bill uh Bill crushed it and uh knocked me out of the tournament yay no it was it was all good I had fun well that's what matters right I mean it seems like the competition was good um the stream was odd because they yeah the streaming that weekend was a little odd why would you say that well they had two different they had two two people streaming and oh that was sarcasm yeah it was yeah oh was it throwing you that there was two separate streams going on and then somebody was doing the commentary from directly behind players yeah talking about I I didn't have an opportunity to watch a ton of it but I remember I went to tune in and I'm like what's going on like this is women's right now and then the other one it's like classic what like I had multiple people texting me and they were like where's the uh where's the main where's the classics or whatever it was and so I had to tell them that there's two separate ones apparently they had no idea they were watching the women's event the whole entire time and then I got confused because I didn't realize there was a women's event cuz I just flipped on Twitch and I didn't bother really reading through anything I just saw oh wait that looks like that's the classics being played right there or whatever I just clicked on it without thinking because I don't have the volume on so yeah that was I apparently that was kind of confusing for everybody but then when I realized what was going on it was kind of entertaining watching somebody do uh do the commentary directly behind the players dur in Main like with a little lav mic right there I think we need to do that someday Tom just around with the camera just commentate his gameplay it's like uh golf commentary you know when they're off to the side exactly what it was so uh he's stepping up to the pin here he's going to I'm ready sign me up sign me up on that oh look he he uh he plunged and got zero points I mean did you did you win a lot of money Tom did you pretty good out there at cin uh they they W uh Northwest caliber but uh did you make enough to pay for dinner yeah I mean I I won I won 80 bucks for nth Place shout out to the Bellas and this was um this was one of the first tournaments you played in a while without Neil and I think the the verdict was he's a huge distraction and you play better without him that's what that's what we're hearing it was amazing I must have had 50 people come up to me like where is Neil and I was just like Neil is dead Neil is dead he's at College yeah I'm like he's in college he's got to concentrate on that it's Daddy's turn to rain He he'll come back to indisk so what's your next tournament then Tom that you have coming up uh I strangely enough I leave tomorrow morning for pinball at the lab oh that's uh out in California right correct that's Carl D'Python Anghelo baby yeah Jim bedo too okay all right well that bit that stream will be good I can count on that no no no no knock on the other streamers but this was he's saying the person that streams all the fox City stuff at District 82 is just [ __ ] I think what I'm saying I'm just saying I we are spoiled I didn't stream anything we are spoiled there are but there are different tiers of of tournament streams some are better than others but at the end of the day the fact that a lot of these tournaments are streamed we are spoiled by that so when I hear hey one of you guys are in stream okay the kids are in bed this or that I just I assume I'm going to be able to pull out the phone hop on Twitch and find whoever's streaming that and I'm going to be able to watch lucky that we go out and stream these damn tournaments yeah think your uh think your think your pinball streamer next time next time you're at a tournament think the person streaming it I did want to say uh the the Northwest pinball Championship one hell of game like at the end on Congo I mean that was freaking amazing like yeah had Jim bedo like killing in then you have Kaylee George coming back and killing it go back and watch that it was on what was it geek gamer TV yeah like that and I'm a little salty too because there was a Hoops game in the quarterfinals that was the most epic Hoops game that I can remember for a tournament eer Leslie Ruck UMO and Carl D'Python Anghelo and they it was not on stream I was very disappointed by that because Belo put up 10 million on his last ball to come all the way back in order to I think that was to advance or is to do something and Leslie just killed it as well so yeah there's just a lot of a lot of great pinball being played out there well good um is is that enough tournament talk for you Joel or I mean I we can talk about how you didn't come back and defend your 89th Place sure didn't I sure didn't I'm you know I uh one thing that wasn't mentioned no I mentioned it obviously at the beginning was uh you know we had this we have this dog now and um I still have two children and so me um finding time to leave the wife the children and now a dog at home for me to do what I want to do is it's hard to it's hard to do you see what's going on here I am I am locked in on pinball Expo and I'm not going to do anything playing the tournament break that I don't I remember didn't Josh Sharpe say that he would actually make an exception coaching during Expo can I still sign up for that I don't know well yeah it's there's no cap walk in okay you can this might happen this might happen we'll see that would be hilar I would stay for Expo to watch that I'm not planning on going but if you do that I would watch it you would would youo format you really want me trying to coach you cuz I would just troll you and say the wrong thing what were you saying has the XO has the Expo format changed yeah slightly like there's qualifying on Wednesday now and the number of entries I think increased is it 25 entries and top 16 get used or something like that I thought I saw somebody post something about that something like that go Joel I'll have to look into that everybody makes finals Joel everybody makes finals well um what what are what are your opinions on pump and dumps like there is not a pump and dump in Wisconsin and I think there should be I think triple drain's gonna have to host a pump and dump that's what it is we're gonna have to I see a line of games right behind you there Tom f it might get a little cramped but we could try put them in the garage but uh I'm trying to think other tournaments real quick oh UK open you want to plug that I'm going to that leave on Monday so today's Thursday night and I leave Monday for uh London oh yeah the UK pinball open right yep our buddy Neil McCrae the one the only Joel what are you looking at right now trying to buy another dog so you don't have to go to tournaments I was trying to we have questions and I was trying to pull them up oh you're right we're supposed to answer questions all right bring it I'm sorry I look I looked I'm sorry I look distracted the fact that I would be just I'm not taking away from Neil McCrae Neil McCrae I'm glad you're flying glad you're flying across country Neil de is going to do an awesome job he's coming I'm flying across the country I'm flying across the ocean Joel in America Neil McCrae is coming to pinball at the lab he's go he goes to everything it's crazy is he really he does not go to Every he goes to a lot for a guy that lives across the ocean he comes to a lot of tournaments in North America he got some change well that'll be exciting and yes check it that out that'll be a fun stream to watch I know the hours will be a little more challenging because that'll be overseas but um Neil always puts on a good show that'll be really interesting to watch pinball at the lab is going to be awesome um that'll be a lot of fun to watch um I Know Carl said he had like an ear infection or something so I hope he gets better and can play because he's he's awesome to watch um so yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of tournament tournament there's a lot of tournament fun coming up and I'm looking forward to that and yeah just looking at the date I mean it's going to be roughly a month before pinball EXP so hopefully we can record again before then to kind of do a about Super Series talking about it earlier early October yeah it's like mid October Joel if you're coming to Expo are you going to be at the stern pro circuit finals to watch I invited to that is that at Joshua's house no it's it's at interium it's open to the public it's wedes Wednesday yeah I don't know yet when I'm going up but that could be fun if you're in if you're in the area I would I would like to make a a you know swing out of the way to say to Travis I'm playing in the event Joel yes please you can you can show up and you could even play for me if you want to I don't know if that's legal TR Josh alth the other competitors might allow it I have a wild card right here you guys are in trouble we're playing all five games on Venom can't wait Joel's trying to log into his Insider yeah where do I how do I how do I bring it oh just to clarify that real quick there was I was listening to slam tail pinball podcast and stone you need to wait I need to log in yeah Bruce Nightingale um that's right that's his last BR Bruce was complaining he's like I think it's dumb because I don't want I don't want to be in a tournament and somebody walk up and log in and and just beat me because they have more experience points um Dwight Qui to point quick fix for that well yeah tournament mode it doesn't have it but take out the damn go that would work too but Dwight did say you don't score more points with higher XP like it's not it's not like somebody who just logs in and immediately scores more points but I could see there is a benefit though of if I log in I'm already 10 you can get further level 30 let's go but there is a new setting for it though that you can make it to where it's competition until you turn the game off so no matter what you do it'll stay in competition yeah that's pretty slick smart sck y pretty um all right questions let's do this questions I got to pulling up here so I'm going to start with patreon I'm let's just do some quick math we're at 31 minutes of our second recording a an hour and 20 of our first so we're already at an hour 50 of recording here um so we probably shouldn't go too much longer no we'll go we'll go as long as they need we people have questions Tom's ready to answer we're going to start with a very short easy simple question here uh with the economy the way it is do we see some pinball companies close their doors in the next two years year or two also with new pinball mystery companies on the verge of revealing will there be any market share for them they're [Laughter] screwed I think it's answered well I mean I I agree I this is a this a this is a rough time to to start a brand new pinball company and unless you come out with a crazy killer theme or a crazy killer free remake it's going to be really hard to get your foot in the door um and yes do I feel like out of some of the companies that are currently manufacturing games some of them have kind of struggled the last year or so and I don't know I don't know how long you can struggle before your doors get shut I don't what was the question again is there dealers and Distributors that will go or manufactur pball manufacturers well pinball companies could extend I mean pinball manufacturers I think there's a chance yes we could potentially lose a pinball manufacturer in the next year or two I think Distributors like like Travis is hinting at uh there's a lot of Distributors out there that are stuck on a lot of allocation and if if your all your money's tied up in the pins that you're not selling right now then you're in trouble I mean it's it's the law of averages of any business you know you go through a downswing not everybody comes out of that there's going to be people that will tap out they just don't want to mess with it anymore and that's just the nature of business yep uh Brian Cosner do you have one favorite piece of clothing pinball related that you wear on a regular basis um I wear this tpn hat a lot because I like the way it fits um I also have a three4 sleeve shirt from Electric battle arcade that I'm a big fan of not to mention every bit of triple drain merch yeah we'll go with that Travis you you wear your triple drain hat a lot I did and then my son took it from me so now he wears it all the time I need to order another one um I'll plug it for you Tom the new Fox City's logo there's a new Fox City's logo out there so so there's some new Fox Cities merch so uh update your merch game um all the people that want to support FOX cities um thanks all right you're welcome um Tony V since the arcade nerds are venturing into pinball why don't you talk about at Games legend pinball 4K Adams Family themed vpin there's a new it's a kind of a smaller vpin that was released that is themed after Adams Family with a bunch of V pin games on it is this visual visual pinballs like porn it's just not the same it's just not the same I well okay is is this like a a real product or what is it yeah this is a real thing you can buy it's kind of like how um yeah you know 18 to play it no it's not there's no relationship to porn um um it's kind of like the arcade one ups for arcade games but this is kind of smaller virtual pins so you can go to Costco yeah it gives you a taste of of pinball but that's my thing is I think is it good for the hobby probably because I think it's giving people a taste of pinball and if they enjoy that they may want to go one further and get a home pin or get a not a home pin a home edition or go to their local bar and play actual pinball NOP there's nothing wrong with it I wish I had a legitimate virtual pin at my house just so I could load up all kinds of different games and go through the rule sets and stuff like that before tournaments games I'm not familiar with well you can do that without having a virtual pin and you just do it in you know on your computer or with Xbox I mean you're playing with a controller but can still learn rules get any pen on my Xbox um I know you definitely can on PC the answer is no PC you can PC you can well yeah like visual pinball uh yes okay so that was that was patreon thank you to all of our patreon supporters really appreciate that if you want to support us uh check us out triple dra at patreon or on patreon support us that way it's awesome supporting Joel yeah thank you for supporting us you for getting Joel another dog much appreciate we have won not cheap people it is not cheap iy Joel wanted to do lunch boxes we could have done like doggy two toys Joel does not pick up his own dog's excrement so he hires somebody to do that and you need to support that the the currently the excrements are more inside the house than they are outside the house and I so it is all getting picked up the maid is pissed when I finished my stream yesterday I looked down it was 11:55 it was close to midnight and I got a text from My Wife and it said the dog has [ __ ] everywhere in our bedroom and it is not Sol I need you up here now so I said all right guys yep I said it's uh looks like I'm shutting down the stream and uh two days prior she had bought a uh luckily like a carpet cleaner vacuum like one of the liquid ones and so I mean that cleaned it right up but it was it was a is there a recording of that somewhere then what on stream YouTube can you yeah just go to my last stream and look at the end that's what I that's how I ended the stream read it I know what I'm doing tonight yep well I didn't know I didn't I didn't I didn't wheel the rig into the bath in the bedroom to show off all the land mines did she just leave it like that she that's all she sent me that's all the text I got she didn't even to clean live streaming on Facebook he's like there's [ __ ] everywhere yep I went up there and it was rough it was it was in a bad spot so I took the dog like I'm in bed he's streaming yeah I can smell it but I'm not going to worry about it I'm going to wait till he's done I I smelled it as soon as I got to the first level and this we're talking about a second level that where it it was it was oh something else so when is the dog going back that's what I'm wondering I will tell you that it was just a few days in and my wife sent me a text and she goes I will admit it I made a mistake we probably shouldn't have got this dog at this time um uh we could return it but we're not going to get our money back I'm like that's not we about how much carpet through this yeah at this point it's not one of your kids you shall pass Joel I know I know I know um all right what fav trying to avoid coming to tournaments Tom he's not going to get rid of this dog he's G act like hates it he's going to keep it around you have to train your dog to go outside you will clean up as much [ __ ] as possible to avoid tournament pinball he will continue to clean up dog [ __ ] Don's pinball podcast why are no pinball manufacturers printing on the undersides of the Playfield I think I think deep root had done that or there's more than one I see it and look how well there there's value in your assembly but after that nobody you don't you don't need it so didn't like uh didn't got Le uh like they used to put like where the mechs go yeah I could see it's it's not a value for the customer it's a value for your assembly line and that's yeah I mean I yep let's cut some cost somewhere yeah uh Patrick here are the jjp add-ons for Godfather Le pissing off CE buyers yep we talked about that a little bit um do Zach love his P3 or just not I don't know that's a that's a Zach question um flipping out has one that he got in on trade and and Zach's been very vocal about his views on P3 before so we'll see how that goes um is Venom Pro an empty game compared to the premium I was expecting that or I was expecting it to feel that way but I don't like I really I'm really not I'm really having a lot of fun with the pro so I'm I'm looking forward to the premium being that much better um is the pinball balloon deflating we kind of already talked about a little bit what pins are holding their value um and then what themes themes would be an instant buy for each of you if it's released so our pins what pins are holding their value how about that um do we know not a lot I would think I think ultra rare stuff is um I don't know Travis you probably know better than sounds like Pirates of the Caribbean you know jjps that game seem to be really high I mean it's still really high but I don't think it's anywhere near probably what it was I would six months to a year ago right I would say generally everything is starting to go down I've even seen gods premiums priced at uh map pricing yeah and you never saw that during the past couple years so yeah I think that prices are just generally coming down and everything and the one thing to really keep an eye on is what the used Market is going to be I'm seeing pros at around 55200 right now and I don't remember even seeing it at that price except for when what MSRP used to be $58.99 9 or somewhere right around there where you'd find one for about $800 less but yeah that's uh that's pretty crazy cuz it's $69.99 is the price point for pro so when you're seeing some of these used games show up for between 5,000 and 5500 like I think a lot of them will settle in at 5500 too because you see so many going out there so many are going out the breweries and demand yep there's so much Supply it's just yeah going to happen so the other question there what themes would be an instant buy for each of you if released to me my I I've my dream theme was Turtles that's already happened but Batman the Animated Series would be if they ever did a Batman the Animated Series version of the game I'd be all over it um otherwise I know I'm a big like Blade Runner fan but I don't know I don't know how they do that Mad Max would be one that I think would be an awesome pinball machine so those are the ones the top of my list um Tom has rushed so Tom's ready to die happy man I was just going to say uh I got a couple like Matrix would be huge Harry Potter of course um ban pin I'd like to see a Van Halen um yeah sure Superman and Travis your what like Mountain Dew the pin that would be your I would do uh Supreme 2 Supreme I would do South Park Matrix and and Red Hot Chili Peppers oh that's Monica Monica's mentioned that Red Hot Chili Peppers you're locked in doesn't matter yeah if it's a super ali I'm totally yeah um all right what else do we have Neil McCrae was talking about um UK open we talked about that definitely check that out that'll be streamed on backhand pinball on Twitch definitely check that um Matt mcarthy games that are not good for competitive play M mccardy it's my bad there I think he's a patreon supporter too thanks [ __ ] that up Joel threw an a there I would like to hear Tom and Travis's thought on what makes a game bad for competition any any game with a shot that's repeatable 50 times and you can score a bunch of points on it is bad for competition agreed something like that um just anything to where there's scoring in balances that's just incredibly noticeable I mean it's hard to get a pin that's just completely balanced but we're talking about something that's so egregious that you just completely ignore everything else on a game and you'll sometimes see that on older games which is it's fine it is what it is but if you see it on a modern game then that's no bueno you don't want to see that yeah yep or um I know what is it uh police force where it's like has the ability to steal other players score score or four like the catchup or came up recently I think yeah yeah there's stuff like that that's interesting it was the first time that was ever done at District 82 which is crazy as well but it's it's not EAS the easiest thing to do because he hasn't set so high you got to hit the ramp like eight times in a row and uh it's enough that they let him play it right that it's in the tournament like oh so even though that is kind of a crazy rule you you just feel I mean it would be nice if if somebody could actually like come up with a new code for that game I think that game would be fun to play in a tournament but it's just not unless you bastardize the midle ramp and yeah you know take away that scoring option all right all right um and that's something that I know when I got into this hobby realizing there's certain games that are um like Indiana Jones Indiana Jones some people just freaking love Indiana Jones and they think it's the greatest game ever made but I've never seen it I've never seen it in a tournament though and that's because people it's like it's not a good tournament pin for some reason the Williams game yeah it's fine it's fine I think it's fine I'm trying to think of the stern one as the one that's kind of stern one's horrible for tournaments well I was trying to think of uh there was some game that I remember it's like it's loved by the majority of people but it's rare that it's in a tournament just because it's not it's not balanced well or it's just very one thing like you're saying like yep every player is going to be doing the same tactic it doesn't you know they're ignoring 95% of the game they're only going to do one thing the whole time um which is which isn't very fun but uh speaking of tournament Colin's asking have has anybody in a tournament you know with people like swapping out flippers for lightning flippers has anybody ever put banana flippers on a on a on a game that shouldn't have banana flippers just to mess with it have you have either of you guys experienced that I have not not in a high level tournament I've seen it in a home tournament and it was just it was hilarity and Sue but yeah not not out in the General Public all right for you two one overrated and one underrated game for tournament play that's a good question who asked that one uh Tom Tom what it me that a very good question K KY what did you just say c e CK I TTI oh I got you I got you okay let's see one under and one overrated I'm so sorry Tom I don't know don't know how to say your last name that is such a tough question that's very tough well you think about that while you're thinking about it uh Cohen had asked do I buy the World Cup soccer 94 which is 400 miles from my house or do I buy a dirty hairy which is 40 miles from my house both are the same price uh I would say dirty hairy personally I like both games I just think World Cup soccer it's fun for what it is but dirty hairy though it has a lot more Nuance I think a player could appreciate a lot more if especially if you're only traveling 40 miles for it it's the same price sure and then the followup is or do I wait for the new illin so I think that's probably the right answer well you didn't say that I know but I wanted you to pick between the two in that case you just you just get both dirty hairy and world soccer then and you just wait only choice well that's about it somebody asked us talk about toothpaste you know I'm a cinedine kind of guy now because you know wait wait no Mr dentist what you know all the all the all the I am not Fielding dentist question all of the toothpaste commercial say out of 10 denst yeah if you ask me a dentist question I am I am on the clock and I am getting paid for it I just want to hear a recommended toothpaste that's it what what nine out of 10 teally work in Tom and I'm not getting paid right now I do Colgate Total to what we give out at our [Laughter] office that we're going to invoice them yeah Wayne Wayne Seager Sager that'll be the last Dental question answer unless you're paying me for the advice do you want me to try to get a sponsorship from Pate for this show should we be making a lot more money well we're going to end the we're going to that's we had some really good questions here um all right I I got my underrated and overrated let's okay all right I think underrated for me would be Black Knight forter rage I think in a tournament that it's a lot of fun it's got risk reward because obviously you got to you have to hit risky shots just to like modes right and then you got to hit risky shots in order to light your 2x multiplier so there's certain things that you can do on that game that it's not always safe so for me that makes a fun tournament pin and I wish you could see it a lot more in tournaments I got used to playing that a lot down in Oklahom City and I just remember I played it in finals too at the Northwest pinball up there in Seattle also so I think that's a very underrated tournament pin if somebody wants to get a hold of one then that's a fun game to play overrate I would say and I love this game too but I will probably say it's overrated because it's just played out so much probably attack from Mars and I say that somebody that would pick it all the time just because it's very much hitting the same shots over and over and over again just getting to Total Nuclear Annihilation using that just to pick off you know ships if they're open and then if you get into your multiball you happen to get a Super Jackpot well then you're all in on multiball all day cuz those jackpots are built up so high so yeah I don't know I'd probably go on a Lim and say overrated for tournaments just because it's just played out so darn much but it's still a lot of fun though oh you guys are going to love this underrated Rush under no no no un underrated WWE WrestleMania no what everybody hates that [ __ ] game but I love it cuz I can kick everybody's ass on it so therefore it should be in every tournament okay um and then uh overrated everybody's gonna hate me for this Godzilla oh ke right in at um yeah s sorry Keith why why no I'm just well one it's in every tournament like you can't go to a tournament with without it being in and and second I just don't like like the mini wizard modes you know people get in them and they're so long so I I just think the game plays really long um that's why I'm saying that and is it really is it just I that I've seen that I've seen that that most of the time when Godzilla's on stream and then you know you're having a long game and then it set up you know uh otherwise you have to set it up so brutal that it's not even fun to play yeah so trying to find that balance between how do I make it an appropriate length but not but still make the game fun yeah yep I see you okay by there in that I mean game's awesome yeah yeah yeah cool what about you Joel yeah I don't know you got one under your belt what game was underrated what game was overrated I mean just going to ride the the turtles is still an underrated pin you know just it's it's too good it's it's a lot of fun I like seeing it I also really like seeing people play it in tournament because it's very clear to see people that know how to play it and people that don't um because you're not going to be rewarded points in that game unless you know what you're doing um and that was in that was in uh celin which I played uh that's underrated overrated uh I don't know I don't know I just um I yeah I would I I believe it or not I I know attack from Mars was was I'm pretty sure was in that I will agree with that because that is a game that I see a lot of I see it in a lot of tournaments I see it played a lot and um I know it's a good game but it's just I I don't know it just seems like the layout is it's easy for people to blow that up and so that's another game that can be very long and very syy so and you know what's hilarious about this troll I am TD an event this weekend for one of my sons he wanted to have his birthday party down Oklahoma City and guess what is in the freaking tournament Turtles attack from Mars and guess who put it in the tournament you I did yes so it's like it's reliable but yeah now now I want to take it out I think I'm going to take it back no I mean it's a good game I think it's I think it's a good game but it's it's just very much samies I guess but you could technically say that for any game but I don't know it just feels like it's just more more the same just over and over and over again I think that's why I like stranger things better than attack from Mars because I feel like I'm actually doing different things even though the layouts are very similar but at least I feel like I'm playing the modes I feel like I have a reason to do different things on that pen as opposed to just blindly hit shots and just wait till I get into Total Nuclear Annihilation or isolation for that game but what I think funny is I I mean at pinball Expo um or not Texas Texas pinball Expo I remember watching that tournament and it's the difference between the difference between Godzilla when you when you guys were playing that I mean I know Travis you were still in Carl D'Python Anghelo I forget who the others that's Bowen that's right um and to see you guys play Godzilla and understand how complex that game is and the fact that you guys it's like what are they going to do how they going to like how's how are you going to adapt to this what strategy are they going to pull and how entertaining that was but then also the very next game taxi where it's very obvious you know what to do but I was still just as entertained because it was very clear what was going to do but can they execute that thing and that's what I think is pretty neat about you know watching tournament play that two games can be drastically different in their layout their complexity the challenges that it presents but it can still be very entertaining as a as a tournament game so there we go um those are good questions thanks you all that answered that please you know check out our Facebook page if you want normally WE Post before we're going to stream and you guys can obviously comment there um I I feel really bad I think we had got one or two emails over the last month but I don't have that on my phone so I don't can't pull those up so sorry about that um I will say I did get an email um uh here I'm not I'm not not going to spoil it I will we will make a post about it we have a new t-shirt design um that will be uh we're going to probably put it on our Zazzle store just based off what it is and so I will we will post that to our social media um it's a t-shirt design stuff this is the first time Tom and I are hearing this I'm telling you right now it's a t-shirt design that is out there already but I pulled some strings and we are going to make it public and available to everybody so what do you mean it's out there already there are people that already have it what and others are going to be able to get it so confused right now I am too oh it's great you guys are going to love it so people already have merch associated with our podcast and Tom and I don't even know about it interesting Tom do you have any uh pictures from your younger days that you need to tell us about or like what's going on here I have no idea what's going on and I very interested to find out okay yeah well with that said let's plug it up uh Travis plug away uh yeah you guys can find me on this podcast as usual and also too I do have a video finally dropping to where I'm doing commentary over on the pinball company's YouTube channel I have a big huge Venom game that's dropping it's an hourong game to where I scored something like 25 30 billion points and we're going to talk over the game and just go from there so yeah so this is an hourong video of you talking through a game of of that you played a full game yeah I think on this one I go through the game twice and I think during this hourlong video did your face camera stay on the entire video it did not no so we had to change it I actually had my video on it the whole time and then when I was going through the editing I was just like [ __ ] it went out 45 minutes into it at least end up taking it off but yeah it's just it's me figuring out how the game plays just discussing General tactics to everybody so you want to see the game if you have like a certain thing that you want to see in it that would be the video to go see because I'll have it chapters and all that so that's my one plug I'll do and then of course I'll be selling lunch boxes and apparently t-shirts too with Joel's face he doesn't know yet so yeah that's all I got yeah thank you Travis uh Tom plug away thank you Joel uh you can find me on this podcast but you can also find me on Fox Cities Pinball where I'm strapped to District 82 until pinball Expo in Chicago yeah so wonderful thank you Tom and once again check out his new merch with the new Fox Cities logo um and yes my name is Joel I do the fliping out stream every Wednesday night from 10:00 to midnight on YouTube check that out all of our old streams are on YouTube so you can see those um have a lot of fun with those as well as flipping out with friend conversations obviously on this podcast and then um still working on um hopefully getting another interview lined up um but I assume we will record again before Expo hopefully we do if not I know I will be there I know Tom's gonna be there and then Travis might make a make an appearance but um if we happen to not record before that please come and say hi um we'd love to meet you if if you want to say hi and um yeah should be a good time but uh yeah like always Tom you get the last words Joel your Zilla Toppers on
Rick and Morty's Dimensions mode changes gameplay significantly through lighting, sound, scoring, and ramp functionality
high confidence · Joel describes Dimensions as making the game feel different every play through dynamic rule changes
Avengers 60th Anniversary was released despite no special LE version being made for that milestone
medium confidence · Joel notes Avengers hit 60th anniversary without anniversary edition, contrasting with Jurassic Park 30th approach
“I think if they did Stranger Things and have a brand new art package, I think that would help it a lot... if you add in the UV kit with it”
Travis@ 30:21 — Suggests potential strategy for hypothetical Stranger Things limited edition
“it doesn't feel like a spooky if that makes sense, it just feels like it's kind of its own thing”
Travis@ 15:20 — Characterizes Rick and Morty's design as distinct from typical Spooky house style
high · Travis: 'I ended up giving up Avengers LE which I never thought I would do but I am getting Avengers Pro... Jurassic Park 30th... wife wanted to get it'
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sentiment_shift: Rick and Morty experiencing reputation recovery among hosts who had negative location play experiences; extended home ownership revealing quality of design
high · Joel: 'I've been really impressed with the game' after borrowing it; notes previous experiences were 'broken' or 'brutal'; Travis sold his route spot but confirms 'most favorite spooky'
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content_signal: Triple Drain Episode 42 experienced month+ delay; cited lack of news initially, then travel conflicts (Joel's wedding, tournaments, district events)
high · Hosts explain: 'It has been a long time... there was like no news there was nothing'; Joel had 'family thing traveling'; Travis had tournaments
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product_strategy: Hosts discussing whether Stern will continue vault strategy or shift entirely to anniversary/limited edition model for classic games
medium · Joel: 'what if Stern is done with vaults so we no longer have vaults but from here on out every version... they do some sort of limited edition'
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rumor_hype: Heavy rumors of Stranger Things vault/limited edition in November; hosts discuss whether new season or anniversary angle should apply
medium · Joel mentions 'rumors right that there's a big opening in November' and speculation about whether to do vault or 'brand new art package'
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licensing_signal: Justin Roland provided extensive pinball-specific voice work for Rick and Morty but unlikely to return for future code updates
medium · Joel: 'they got Justin Roland... to actually do a gazillion callouts... I don't think he's going to be coming back to do any for the new code update'
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gameplay_signal: Rick and Morty's humor-driven appeal heavily dependent on audio quality; location venues with high ambient noise negatively impact experience
high · Joel: 'the humor is so good in this game and you got to be able to hear it... I hate about location play is certain locations are just so loud'
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industry_signal: Stern establishing pattern of anniversary editions beyond Jurassic Park (30th); rumored for Godzilla (70th next year), Avengers (60th already passed)
medium · Joel: 'Stern has done... Alvara was it something like that and then they did the same thing with Jurassic Park with the 30th' and speculates on Godzilla pattern