79:08goes okay oh I we're back we're back uh I don't know if Travis did anything wrong but he was frozen and we kept talking and um so we're just you know how yep we're here we're here sorry I got a call from loser kid I had to pick it up J all right what we were talking about this is seamless for for all the listeners what we were talking about is my current complaint with Venom is um the battles the battles um are pretty hard uh especially at lower levels and you said that like you have to be at level 10 to do the first minor villain and if you get into that battle it's a two-phase battle and there's a lot of shots you have to hit it's timed so if you run out of time you lose the battle and you got to do your mini modes again to get back into it but it's a decent bit of work to actually get through that battle you compare that D to Mayhem multiball you lock a ball you get in all you have to do is hit seven seven shots and you hit a jackpot and boom you're spotted the battle and I don't like that like I think it's a very like clearly the way to do it is to have a really good Mayhem multiball and you can skip all those battles or you really only have to do one battle to get past that increment that level well and that's what they want you to do they want you to get past that battle and then get on the grindle I mean I've I've lost to the minor boss is at level 30 possible to do so so that's but what if instead and I'm not I mean maybe maybe I'll tell Dwight but maybe instead of giving you the whole battle it it just like gives you a phase like it it it gives you the first phase of the battle because they're two phases so it's like don't give me the whole battle but make it so that when I get into it because you did well in the multiball it just makes that battle easier or it takes away a phase you already start at phase two you know sometime I just don't I just think there's just a very big difference between getting a jackpot in a multiball versus actually having to focus in on that battle hit the specific shots some of the battles the shots are roaming some of the shots are moving back and forth I mean it's just it's a very different thing that you have to do with one ball that's very challenging verse a multiball where it's just hit every shot and then hit a jackpot right well I I would say keep in mind too that most likely that that rule is in there obviously with the way that the fast locks are if you look at the pictures with the minor bosses on them it was meant for to be this way yeah from a very early stage and I would say that they very much want you to get through the game get the grindle get the null then on top of that it makes it easier to get the hybrid too to get to your 7x to in order to defeat all four bosses because if you have to play all four bosses on their own that's going to be awfully hard to beat all four bosses unless you're well leveled up you're not going to do it at a low level but if you if you look at Foo Fighters right what if Foo Fighters if you had a really good Overlord multiball it just automatically spots you three cities like I don't right but these aren't mod though keep that in mind these are battles Joel but the battles are the closest things to the modes that you have in the game and that that to me is the that's where I'm getting the most fun in the game is I enjoy the way it shoots I enjoy the way it makes me feel because I actually feel like a pretty good player with the control that I have behind this and I really do the animations the sound package is really good like I'm having a lot of fun with the game but where I'm enjoying like the moments people ask that where are the moments in the game the moments are in the battles the battles feel like a moment because it gets a little tense it gets very serious you got to focus I mean grindle's a lot of fun NL is a lot of fun those are where it's that's where I'm having the most fun and if you're telling me all of a sudden your multiball skips half of that I don't want to skip it that's where the Fun's at Tom I think what I'm hearing here is Joel's saying to Dwight I want you to code this differently I want different rules this isn't what I want Dwight I'm here well I don't know I I'm just it's this is this game and multi beat multiball D Darren Mayhem how many bosses two before so 50% I think that's fine I think getting through 50% is fine it's hard enough to get three of them because you got to go through all the jackpots three separate times and hit everything a lot I think getting 50% of the way through is fine because then you're going to move on to another character anyways right and then you're going to decide whether or not you're going to fight what battle you want to fight at that point okay yeah I it's it's just it is such a unique experience and and um I I had a buddy of mine shout out Sterling with um balls of steel not foret getting that again um he had reached out and he he was curious you know you've had ven him a little while now what are your thoughts and and I truly I think this is an incredible location pin and the reason I say that is because of the XP system and the leveling up system there's no reason why you wouldn't put a few games on the game every time you go to the bar like might as you might as well you might you might as I mean maybe for you guys because Travis can beat null two and a half times in one game but for me that it's going to take multiple games to get all the way up there might as well like I'm going to go ahead and play the game you know one or two times and even if all I do is walk away with 10 or 15 XP from that experience like that's fine it'll start me off in a better position next time I hit start um and I really enjoy that like I just that's pulling me back in and I'm really enjoying unlocking characters because Hulk is a totally different experience Wolverine I was having a lot of fun with him last night because Wolverine he he's really hard to kill in the comics so his perk is extra long ball save like way longer ball save and that's a lot of fun like there are some really cool things that this unlocks and I'm I'm I'm really drawn in to keep playing this game and it's only 0.91 and I'm very curious to see what else they come out with because um now I this is a question for Travis the the end all Beall wizard mode is the what is it it's the planet clintar clintar I think that's how you pronounce yeah clintar multiball which is kind of like Cal tur like there's seven things you have to do seven or eight and um one of them is you have to beat n so is that have you been anywhere close to that uh yeah so I don't know quite what's going on because I know for a fact I've done everything it's asked me to do on one of my profiles but it's acting as if I don't have one of them completed so I don't know if it's a bug I don't know if I just got to go back and do it again I have no idea but I know I'm on one of them I'm only one away from finishing I yeah and that's something you can do in in well no cuz the moment you do null it wipes out all your other progress like saved progress so the game that you you said you've beat null in two and a half two and a half times in one game that was the one yeah in a perfect world you'd beat null in ball one and then you can spend balls balls two and three or your extra balls trying to pick away all the other crap to to get to that multiball but you better do it that game because as soon as like you're wiped out all this all your progression is wiped out after you do null I just know during that game it did not let me well I doubt it's I doubt I don't know I yeah I'm not sure why happened I'd have to just try it without the glass crap are we Frozen again no it's just you okay just you and your camera good so I don't know I mean that's a weird that's a weird thing about Venom I I just um at the end of the day I mean it's 0.91 code there's a lot more to flush out uh Dwight is incredibly good with with the the uh the choreography or this like the the way the I I've really enjoyed the light show I really like the sound package four different sound packages based on your character I really like the options like it's a joy to stream it's a joy to stream because I can attack it so many different ways I can pick different characters every time I hit start I'm either starting with new character I'm building up my XP and I'm getting a little further what do you want Travis I just thought of something for a question for Tom because he's the only one that's played a premium out of us did you notice the shots changing at all did that affect the game for you like at all or was it just kind of something that you're just like okay okay it's just another fure see I I can't wait to play a premium because the right now when you change host on a pro all all it's really changing are your perks and it's changing where the combos or the mini modes are that's really all it's changing but the idea that the the the the Playfield is actually changing so that my shots will be more difficult or whatever like I'm I'm looking forward to that to try to strategize the best way to attack it um because yeah certain certain the way that the ball feeds is going to be totally different depending on what character and I'm I'm look I'm really looking forward to that so my for listeners that are in on an Le if this is a theme you're you're looking forward to I think it's going to be a ton of fun when you get your Le and what how different the game's going to feel depending on your character um but it just this game feels totally different I mean we made a comment early on that Rick and Morty is just it's its own thing it's very unique it's you know accept it for what it is that's kind of where I'm at with Venom it is a very unique thing and I'm really enjoying it um but this whole XP system I'm loving it but it makes me wonder you know okay Foo Fighters if Foo Fighters had XP so every single time I hit start it's like well I beat those two cities last time I played so now I'm only one city away from DC or whatever it's like if every game had this type of this Save State kind of progression thing yeah then you theoretically could see the end of every game and is that necessarily something I want in pinball not necessarily because I like the challenge of having to do it all in one game but with that said I I am I am having a lot of fun with this even though I've seen everything in the game at this point that's coded in it but I'm looking forward to doing it again so I I don't know I I'm that's where I'm at I'm enjoying it like this is this game is for watching this the initial stream and the initial pictures I thought the game looked kind of bare I thought it would be kind of boring the shot layout but the actual shooting of it's a lot of fun and I it makes me feel like I'm a decent player and I really enjoy theol contr aspect but the code that Dwight's given in and the many different options that you can take and the ways to tackle it um keeps pulling me back in so I'm I'm having a lot of fun there you go there's my super long-winded review you like Venom that's that's what you're trying to say I'm enjoying it and my brother that's one thing that I think is funny my brother made the comment he thinks it's better than food Fighters like my brother really is having fun on Venom and what's funny is he's currently level like 18 or 19 and he still hasn't beaten him minor V villain because the mini modes the combos are challenging for him to get through that how many games have you guys played I mean we streamed it twice and every time we stream it's two hours so I mean that kind of gives you an idea too and I think a large part of it so when we talk about beating null quickly and all this and that just I would tell the listeners to keep in mind that there's VAR degrees of skill out there for pinball players right you have your just god tier s tier players like eer and z zmac and Johannes yeah well the thing is is that if you take highle players and you put them on a default pen they're going to see the wizard mode fairly quickly that's that's just the way it is but the large majority of players out there are average to below average players there's a lot of people that collect pinball machines that are casual to the point that they won't see all the features on their game no matter how long they have I've had to explain to people that there's a diverter on their Rush Le that they've had for over a year and a half so and that you know that's perfectly fine it's not everybody gets into pinball to know every single little Nuance of a game and know all the rules and be elite level with their flipper skills so on and so forth I know I play Xbox video games all the time it's not like I'm going to go play MLG and go do Call of Duty against n shot or somebody like that you know so I think something like the XP system I think is cool for those players overall and there's a lot of those players out there so I think when people start discovering this game on location they're going to find oh this is different this is interesting I'm seeing different parts of the game that I haven't got to see with other other games before and we talked about this a couple podcasts ago I personally would like to see an XP system across the board I think it would look cool but at the same time I do respect that the individ ual software people that are associated with different games they may not want that with with their game they may have a totally different vision of it but I do think that if a manufacturer was able to adopt this across the board to enable people to know that when they're getting a game they could play through it eventually they'll eventually get to see the endgame to it without it just being an option at the start button just to skip everything so something in that is pretty cool cool for people to know that they can hit start they can play the game and then they will see a wizard mode on it and not just a mini wizard mode they'll see the very end of the game and I something like that I think is unique and I can tell for my kids that's something that they're firmly interested in like I have a 12-year-old that plays and he can make it to a couple of wizard modes on certain games but my 13-year-old he's hardly ever plays but this game he wants to play all the time because he's thinking to himself I can actually see the end of the game yeah so something like that an extreme casual like that yeah I think that'll be a big deal for people and I'm interested to see how that plays out when these launch parties go off in mid October and people start seeing this game more and more I'm curious to see what that does for it yeah and that's that's something my I said my brother he's he's been he's technically played it almost as much as I had and you know I've beaten all twice and he has gotten into like last night he got into a battle and he was one shot away from finishing the battle but like it was you could tell he was into it he was into it it was a rush like he's he's ready though but what's cool is like he can get back to that point and he'll be more experienced than before so that battle is going to be a little easier like that's something that I'm excited to see Jared over the over the course of me owning this game he's gonna work his way up and hopefully get all the way to null and to see that satisfaction when he hits that final blow is going to be really really cool and um that's something I mean that's you don't get there's no other pin like that that's going to right give some some player that type of thing Tom when are you going to go play Venom next um I saw mccardy putting up some scores putting them on Facebook probably probably next week sometime okay good you got to defend the honor of our podcast yeah it's triball damn I think it just says a lot though about the game because yeah the fact that Travis you're enjoying it for I enjoy the speed you're enjoying the speedrun aspect of it like that is unique you enjoy it for what it is and well because like I said it's something different to where if I try to speedrun Planet X I'm going to f that up so many times that it's just going to drive me insane and that's why I was even asking you Joel that is there any way because I was trying to figure this out if I know that I messed up my speedrun I just wipe out all my progress and start from the beginning and right now it's not in the game I think something like that probably coming at some point I hope it is cuz the speedrun aspect of it is pretty cool and I think that's something that people could go to an arcade and take $10 and say I'm going to go for a legit speedrun on this game and grind it out you can do that that is entirely possible there's an achievement on there for 35 minutes to get gold so I will tell you you know half shell challenge which is a speedrun mode within turtles that that challenge I played the heck out of that until until I got under 100 seconds because that was a goal and I can see this being the same thing I find a speedrun in my mind a whole lot more um entertaining than just to to set a bigger GC you know like there's I don't know that's just me so I'm excited I I love that Stern gave Dwight the freedom to to explore this Avenue I'm excited to see where this goes the whole progress or XP system you know or level system and and how it's built into a pin um so overall I'm I'm just I'm very I'm I'm really enjoying this game I'm really enjoying this game and I'm excited to play it while I have it and um we'll see we'll see you know when it leaves if that's something like crap I miss that I miss having that or if this is just the the beginning or the first of Min games here on out that are going to have some sort of experience or level type system so I think that was a pretty good coverage of our Venom experience so far um but yeah that was thing one on our list right yeah our list is gone because we had to restart um I think thing two was tournament talk was that right going off yes that was well yeah we we've played some tournaments recently Joel have you played any pinball tournaments uh nope still haven't that's a no um haven't haven't done that um I know it's been a while since we recorded so we can start with uh well Travis I know you went to Seattle I know that was a thing yep went to Seattle and I ended up taking seventh it would have been fifth but zmac screwed me over by beating me on the very last game zmac I swear world champion anything that um stood out you know to you or uh uh I mean I would say that was my first time to ever be in Washington so the weather was awesome I like the the huge ass trees that's different you don't see those in Oklahoma or Missouri for that yeah you know so that was fun it was different though we played a uh Papa C card format but it was two cards so for those that don't know that's where you play five games and you have to play all the games in a row and they all go onto one card we had to do that twice and you can play as many cards as you want but oddly enough it actually made it easier to qualify it just felt easier compared to something like indis to where if you mess up even once you're just fully screwed you said play it twice are you playing 10 games in a row or you just you you five games in a that you qualify you can have two okay yeah your two best cards so I can play 10 cards and whatever is my two best cards got it okay do you know what a curred is Joel I do I remember I've that's what he just explained a little bit where it's you have bring Joel to indisk with us one day consistency that's the main thing of it's not a pump and dump where you're just like let me work on my my one score on one game and just try to keep going no you you do pumping but you don't do any dumping if you dump then you're voiding req new card yeah you don't want to do that cuz each card is $20 or something like that but no it was a lot of fun anybody that is into tournament pinball I would say check out the Northwest pinball championships up there in Seattle it's uh the prize pools were huge too which was awesome I mean it was something like 3,000 some OD dollars for first place and I think I got 600 or 700 for taking fifth through eth so definitely was pretty good prize pulls out there and nice people as well great Community just a lot of fun cool and then I know Tom you recently just last weekend played at kelin I know that was a you qualified High I remember going into watching it going into finals you were you were in a good spot you had a buy and and all that stuff and I tanked you tanked no I mean there were a lot of good players there uh but uh I I I really started out my playoff run bad I took two last um on my first two games and uh I ended up winning the Sega Godzilla game not not the stern Godzilla game and uh had a tiebreaker with Bill Mason and the tiebreaker was on Rush and so you would thought I would have won it but uh bill uh Bill crushed it and uh knocked me out of the tournament yay no it was it was all good I had fun well that's what matters right I mean it seems like the competition was good um the stream was odd because they yeah the streaming that weekend was a little odd why would you say that well they had two different they had two two people streaming and oh that was sarcasm yeah it was yeah oh was it throwing you that there was two separate streams going on and then somebody was doing the commentary from directly behind players yeah talking about I I didn't have an opportunity to watch a ton of it but I remember I went to tune in and I'm like what's going on like this is women's right now and then the other one it's like classic what like I had multiple people texting me and they were like where's the uh where's the main where's the classics or whatever it was and so I had to tell them that there's two separate ones apparently they had no idea they were watching the women's event the whole entire time and then I got confused because I didn't realize there was a women's event cuz I just flipped on Twitch and I didn't bother really reading through anything I just saw oh wait that looks like that's the classics being played right there or whatever I just clicked on it without thinking because I don't have the volume on so yeah that was I apparently that was kind of confusing for everybody but then when I realized what was going on it was kind of entertaining watching somebody do uh do the commentary directly behind the players dur in Main like with a little lav mic right there I think we need to do that someday Tom just around with the camera just commentate his gameplay it's like uh golf commentary you know when they're off to the side exactly what it was so uh he's stepping up to the pin here he's going to I'm ready sign me up sign me up on that oh look he he uh he plunged and got zero points I mean did you did you win a lot of money Tom did you pretty good out there at cin uh they they W uh Northwest caliber but uh did you make enough to pay for dinner yeah I mean I I won I won 80 bucks for nth Place shout out to the Bellas and this was um this was one of the first tournaments you played in a while without Neil and I think the the verdict was he's a huge distraction and you play better without him that's what that's what we're hearing it was amazing I must have had 50 people come up to me like where is Neil and I was just like Neil is dead Neil is dead he's at College yeah I'm like he's in college he's got to concentrate on that it's Daddy's turn to rain He he'll come back to indisk so what's your next tournament then Tom that you have coming up uh I strangely enough I leave tomorrow morning for pinball at the lab oh that's uh out in California right correct that's Carl D'Angelo baby yeah Jim bedo too okay all right well that bit that stream will be good I can count on that no no no no knock on the other streamers but this was he's saying the person that streams all the fox City stuff at District 82 is just [ __ ] I think what I'm saying I'm just saying I we are spoiled I didn't stream anything we are spoiled there are but there are different tiers of of tournament streams some are better than others but at the end of the day the fact that a lot of these tournaments are streamed we are spoiled by that so when I hear hey one of you guys are in stream okay the kids are in bed this or that I just I assume I'm going to be able to pull out the phone hop on Twitch and find whoever's streaming that and I'm going to be able to watch lucky that we go out and stream these damn tournaments yeah think your uh think your think your pinball streamer next time next time you're at a tournament think the person streaming it I did want to say uh the the Northwest pinball Championship one hell of game like at the end on Congo I mean that was freaking amazing like yeah had Jim bedo like killing in then you have Kaylee George coming back and killing it go back and watch that it was on what was it geek gamer TV yeah like that and I'm a little salty too because there was a Hoops game in the quarterfinals that was the most epic Hoops game that I can remember for a tournament eer Leslie Ruck UMO and Carl D'Angelo and they it was not on stream I was very disappointed by that because Belo put up 10 million on his last ball to come all the way back in order to I think that was to advance or is to do something and Leslie just killed it as well so yeah there's just a lot of a lot of great pinball being played out there well good um is is that enough tournament talk for you Joel or I mean I we can talk about how you didn't come back and defend your 89th Place sure didn't I sure didn't I'm you know I uh one thing that wasn't mentioned no I mentioned it obviously at the beginning was uh you know we had this we have this dog now and um I still have two children and so me um finding time to leave the wife the children and now a dog at home for me to do what I want to do is it's hard to it's hard to do you see what's going on here I am I am locked in on pinball Expo and I'm not going to do anything playing the tournament break that I don't I remember didn't Josh sharp say that he would actually make an exception coaching during Expo can I still sign up for that I don't know well yeah it's there's no cap walk in okay you can this might happen this might happen we'll see that would be hilar I would stay for Expo to watch that I'm not planning on going but if you do that I would watch it you would would youo format you really want me trying to coach you cuz I would just troll you and say the wrong thing what were you saying has the XO has the Expo format changed yeah slightly like there's qualifying on Wednesday now and the number of entries I think increased is it 25 entries and top 16 get used or something like that I thought I saw somebody post something about that something like that go Joel I'll have to look into that everybody makes finals Joel everybody makes finals well um what what are what are your opinions on pump and dumps like there is not a pump and dump in Wisconsin and I think there should be I think triple drain's gonna have to host a pump and dump that's what it is we're gonna have to I see a line of games right behind you there Tom f it might get a little cramped but we could try put them in the garage but uh I'm trying to think other tournaments real quick oh UK open you want to plug that I'm going to that leave on Monday so today's Thursday night and I leave Monday for uh London oh yeah the UK pinball open right yep our buddy Neil McCrae the one the only Joel what are you looking at right now trying to buy another dog so you don't have to go to tournaments I was trying to we have questions and I was trying to pull them up oh you're right we're supposed to answer questions all right bring it I'm sorry I look I looked I'm sorry I look distracted the fact that I would be just I'm not taking away from Neil McCrae Neil McCrae I'm glad you're flying glad you're flying across country Neil de is going to do an awesome job he's coming I'm flying across the country I'm flying across the ocean